Ross Coulthart Reality Check Q&A — "Amnesty protections, dark side of moon and disclosure stalled?" (21 Jun 2026)

Source: Reality Check with Ross Coulthart — Q&A episode, NewsNation. Host Ross Coulthart; questions read by Meagan Medick.
URL: https://youtu.be/2-VWd_Lg49M (NewsNation; 2026-06-21; ~32:37).
Captured: 2026-06-28. Full verbatim YouTube auto-transcript (timestamps retained; ASR artifacts preserved — "Shurmer / Sherba"=Shermer, "Grush"=Grusch, "Doppsa / Dopps"=DOPSR, "Leslie Kaine"=Leslie Kean, "Avi"=Avi Loeb). Provenance only; analysis lives on ../../sources/coulthart-career-and-claims and ../../topics/uap-disclosure-schism.
What this is: the ORIGINAL source of Coulthart's "big position" reporting. At ~10:40 he says, "I am hearing rumors that a very prominent member of UAP transparency push may be being considered for appointment by the Trump administration" — unnamed here; he names his suspect, Lue Elizondo, only in the 28 Jun Q&A (coulthart-realitycheck-qa-uap-schism-2026-06-28). He frames it with a Project Blue Book "another attempt to control the narrative" warning and a call for any such appointment to carry subpoena power. Also: the Michael Shermer science-advisory-committee appointment and Coulthart's defense of first-person witness evidence; and his rejection of the idea that Grusch is part of a controlled-disclosure release (Grusch's DOPSR route). The 57-second "big position" excerpt circulated via @The_Astral_ on X (../extracts/astral-coulthart-big-position-clip-2026-06-21).

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[00:00:07.279] Good day and welcome back to Reality
[00:00:09.840] Check Q&A. That time of the week where
[00:00:12.240] you get the chance to grill me and ask
[00:00:14.400] me the hard questions. Here today, of
[00:00:16.960] course, to help me through that
[00:00:18.400] interrogation, my colleague and good
[00:00:20.560] friend, Megan Medic. Good day, Megan.
[00:00:22.560] How are you,
[00:00:23.519] >> Ross? I am awesome. I'm looking forward
[00:00:25.199] to seeing you in person next week.
[00:00:27.920] >> Looking forward to it. Looking forward
[00:00:29.199] to coming to Washington DC in an
[00:00:32.239] American summer with warm weather, cold
[00:00:35.600] beer and disclosure foundation event
[00:00:38.399] where we get to know the truth with a
[00:00:40.160] big capital D.
[00:00:41.920] >> Well, we like all of those things. We
[00:00:43.920] will hop right in. We have Eli asking
[00:00:45.840] for your thoughts on X on this new
[00:00:48.239] report from Liber Liberation Times. The
[00:00:50.719] US government establishes new inter
[00:00:52.879] agency UAP governance board to
[00:00:55.039] coordinate investigations and
[00:00:57.039] declassification.
[00:00:58.640] Okay. So, this is a executive order has
[00:01:04.000] uh been used by the uh executive arm of
[00:01:06.880] government, the president's
[00:01:08.080] administration and the white house to
[00:01:09.760] create a governance board on top of the
[00:01:13.840] science advisory council that we heard
[00:01:16.000] about from professor Avi Loe last week.
[00:01:19.439] And both of these bodies are being
[00:01:21.759] created ostensively for the purpose of
[00:01:24.080] assisting in UAP transparency in the
[00:01:27.439] ongoing effort to declassify UFO files
[00:01:32.240] in accordance with an executive order
[00:01:36.240] 13526
[00:01:38.079] which essentially requires the ongoing
[00:01:41.200] declassification of national security
[00:01:43.600] secrets. And whilst I think frankly any
[00:01:47.920] kind of ongoing move by the White House
[00:01:50.640] administration and the Trump
[00:01:51.840] administration to do something about
[00:01:53.600] disclosure is a good idea, I am really
[00:01:56.799] worried that what we're seeing here is a
[00:02:00.240] bureaucratic impediment being put in the
[00:02:02.960] way of what is already, I think, a
[00:02:05.759] degree of disclosure with some momentum.
[00:02:08.879] I think that there's an effort underway
[00:02:11.520] by the White House administration to
[00:02:14.480] give the gatekeepers in the defense
[00:02:16.720] department and the intelligence
[00:02:18.080] community what they want, which is a
[00:02:20.879] break on disclosure. I I'm worried that
[00:02:24.239] what we're seeing with the creation of
[00:02:26.319] these two bodies, the the governance
[00:02:28.480] board, an inter agency governance board,
[00:02:31.360] which will be overseen by the director
[00:02:33.840] of national intelligence in coordination
[00:02:35.920] with the FBI and the Department of War
[00:02:39.166] [gasps]
[00:02:40.560] that it doesn't have any power. It's a
[00:02:42.480] toothless tiger. It's just like Project
[00:02:46.080] Blue Book, but worse because
[00:02:50.319] we're reliant yet again firstly on the
[00:02:53.519] Department of War, the Department of
[00:02:55.200] Defense providing whatever documentation
[00:02:58.480] it wants to even begin to be seeing
[00:03:00.879] considered declassified.
[00:03:03.360] At the moment, we have a situation where
[00:03:05.840] I think there's quite a considerable
[00:03:07.599] degree of momentum where uh it's
[00:03:10.879] becoming pretty obvious that the public
[00:03:12.879] aren't going to buy the half pregnant
[00:03:16.879] excuse that the government's got where
[00:03:18.640] they've basically said, "Oh my goodness
[00:03:20.400] me, there are UAPs and look at all these
[00:03:23.040] interesting videos that we've had locked
[00:03:24.560] up in cupboards for the last 50, 60, 70
[00:03:27.040] years, many of which most of which could
[00:03:30.000] quite reasonably have been released
[00:03:31.519] before now. All the declassification
[00:03:34.159] effort in the first three tranches of
[00:03:35.920] the UFO documents shows to date is that
[00:03:38.959] frankly there was no good reason for
[00:03:41.200] those videos not to be released. And
[00:03:43.360] what they show and and particularly the
[00:03:45.680] ones in the third tranch that were
[00:03:47.440] released very recently. What they show
[00:03:50.000] very very clearly is that agencies
[00:03:53.360] themselves, the FBI in particular and
[00:03:55.920] the intelligence community have been
[00:03:58.319] seeing anomalous phenomena which cannot
[00:04:01.439] be explained prosaically. [snorts] We
[00:04:04.080] know this. That's not a revelation
[00:04:05.920] anymore, guys. White House note to the
[00:04:09.120] president. People aren't going to buy
[00:04:12.879] that kind of half pregnant shock horror.
[00:04:15.680] Oh my goodness me. We have a interesting
[00:04:18.479] situation where there is this phenomena
[00:04:20.239] we can't explain. Let's look at what
[00:04:22.079] these bodies don't have. The science
[00:04:24.080] advisory council professor Avi Loe has
[00:04:26.400] admitted he will have no subpoena power,
[00:04:29.520] no power to command access to
[00:04:31.919] privileged, classified,
[00:04:33.280] compartmentalized information and
[00:04:35.600] neither will the governance board. We
[00:04:38.240] seriously have to rely on the goodwill
[00:04:41.600] of the defense department and the
[00:04:43.280] intelligence community, which after all,
[00:04:45.759] let's be brutally honest about it, is
[00:04:47.520] principally responsible for this
[00:04:49.199] continuing cover up to actually get
[00:04:51.360] access to any data. There's also no
[00:04:54.160] clarity on whether any of the data held
[00:04:56.639] and I think this is a really important
[00:04:58.320] point any of the data held by private
[00:05:01.199] military contractors Northrup Grman
[00:05:03.680] Loheed Martin uh Rathon Boeing
[00:05:07.919] uh even some of the federally funded
[00:05:10.000] research development corporations like
[00:05:12.080] aerospace corporation MITER corporation
[00:05:15.520] all of these agencies are largely
[00:05:17.919] excluded from this declassification
[00:05:20.160] effort and it worries me because That's
[00:05:22.639] where a lot of the secrets are being
[00:05:24.320] hidden. I mean, we've seen from the
[00:05:28.000] experience with Arrow to date that Arrow
[00:05:31.199] sadly on Dr. John Kosowski, the head of
[00:05:33.360] Arrow's own admission is very much at
[00:05:36.080] the beholding and the control of the
[00:05:38.240] Defense Department. And if the Defense
[00:05:40.160] Department doesn't want certain secrets
[00:05:42.320] out, they won't be out. So, I guess I'm
[00:05:46.080] really worried that what we're seeing
[00:05:47.919] here is an attempt to put a break on big
[00:05:50.960] D disclosure and that the bear in the
[00:05:53.440] room, will they acknowledge that the US
[00:05:58.000] has been aware of an NHI, a non-human
[00:06:00.960] intelligence engaging with this planet
[00:06:03.280] for many, many decades, and indeed that
[00:06:06.639] they've recovered craft and biologics.
[00:06:09.440] Will that admission be made in the
[00:06:11.840] course of this disclosure? I don't think
[00:06:14.639] it will be. I honestly think that what
[00:06:16.880] we're seeing here is an attempt to
[00:06:18.880] control the narrative and I'm genuinely
[00:06:21.440] concerned. Past bodies like the NASA
[00:06:24.319] body, the unidentified anomalous
[00:06:26.639] phenomena independent study team are a
[00:06:28.800] good example. It's quite clear that
[00:06:31.520] NASA's been sitting on secrets that
[00:06:34.080] weren't disclosed to their independent
[00:06:36.800] study team. I think we should get
[00:06:38.899] [clears throat] Mike Gold, for example,
[00:06:40.479] on Reality Check, who was a member of
[00:06:42.479] that team. I know Mike's been quite
[00:06:45.600] surprised by some of the information
[00:06:47.600] that's been revealed recently that's
[00:06:49.440] been in the possession of NASA. You
[00:06:51.600] know, we've seen evidence, absolutely
[00:06:54.080] categorical evidence, despite what some
[00:06:56.160] debunkers try to say, of obvious
[00:06:58.960] anomalies on the surface of the moon,
[00:07:01.440] anomalies that were raised by astronauts
[00:07:03.520] in the emission reports postflight.
[00:07:06.479] All of these were concerns that raised
[00:07:08.880] the possibility that some kind of
[00:07:10.639] anomalous phenomena was seen witnessed
[00:07:13.280] by astronauts in orbit. This is a
[00:07:16.960] revelation and yet we didn't get to hear
[00:07:19.440] about it when the NASA independent study
[00:07:21.680] team did its report because the NASA
[00:07:24.080] independent study team whose powers
[00:07:26.160] pretty much mirror what we're seeing now
[00:07:27.840] with this new governance body. They were
[00:07:30.319] fed what NASA wanted them to be fed.
[00:07:33.919] That's the issue. And so we've got this
[00:07:36.160] ridiculous situation where frankly we
[00:07:39.120] have to depend on the goodwill of those
[00:07:41.599] in power to enforce executive order
[00:07:44.960] 13526. And essentially that was a very
[00:07:48.000] well-intentioned order signed by
[00:07:49.840] President Obama in 2009.
[00:07:53.199] And essentially it established a uniform
[00:07:55.680] system for classifying, safeguarding and
[00:07:59.440] declassifying national security
[00:08:01.680] information across the US government.
[00:08:04.720] and it mandated that information shall
[00:08:08.000] be declassified as soon as it no longer
[00:08:10.319] meets the standards for classification
[00:08:12.240] under this order. Now, a lot of the
[00:08:15.039] information that we've seen in the last
[00:08:17.440] few months from the UFO trenches that
[00:08:20.000] have been released in the Department of
[00:08:21.599] War is information that's older than 25
[00:08:24.879] years, but it wasn't released before
[00:08:27.360] now. Why not when we've got this
[00:08:29.840] executive order? Well, clearly because
[00:08:32.479] the Pentagon, the intelligence community
[00:08:34.800] were dragging their feet. They didn't
[00:08:36.880] want to heed the executive order. So, if
[00:08:40.080] for what is it 2009 to 2026, you know,
[00:08:44.640] we're getting close to what's that 17
[00:08:47.200] years where essentially the will of an
[00:08:50.240] executive order has been ignored. And
[00:08:52.959] it's only now because President Trump
[00:08:55.680] has shown some commendable leadership in
[00:08:58.480] pushing for UAP transparency in
[00:09:01.120] particular that we are now seeing the
[00:09:03.360] enforcement of Executive Order 13526 in
[00:09:06.560] relation to UAP's UFOs. [snorts] But
[00:09:09.839] frankly, I think it's all a bit of a
[00:09:11.760] joke and I don't think we're going to
[00:09:13.680] see any meaningful disclosure coming out
[00:09:16.320] of these ongoing tranch releases by the
[00:09:18.560] Department of War. And I think the
[00:09:20.480] executive governments and science
[00:09:22.080] advisory committee are frankly going to
[00:09:24.720] be just another bureaucratic impediment.
[00:09:27.360] Um I don't have the same problem a lot
[00:09:29.680] of people do with the appointment of
[00:09:31.200] Michael Shurmer, the noted debunker
[00:09:33.279] skeptic who outrageously slurred David
[00:09:36.160] Grush with his purile insinuations uh in
[00:09:40.080] one attack that he made on him after
[00:09:41.839] David went public. A lot of the time
[00:09:44.320] people like Shurmer have said things
[00:09:46.240] that suggest that witness evidence is no
[00:09:49.200] evidence. And I just keep on reminding
[00:09:52.000] people witness evidence, firsterson
[00:09:54.800] witness evidence is evidence. And if Mr.
[00:09:58.399] Sherba wants to be taken seriously as a
[00:10:01.200] reputable member of a scientific
[00:10:03.200] advisory team advising the executive
[00:10:06.000] governance board on UAP transparency.
[00:10:09.040] He's going to have to come to the
[00:10:10.320] realization that personal firsthand
[00:10:14.800] witness evidence especially when it's
[00:10:17.680] provided under oath as David Grush did
[00:10:20.320] is evidence. So, I hope that he corrects
[00:10:24.320] the misunderstandings that he clearly
[00:10:26.640] showed as a debunker, not a skeptic, in
[00:10:30.160] his previous commentary. Uh, frankly
[00:10:32.959] though, I'm not optimistic. I'm
[00:10:34.720] beginning to think that we're being sold
[00:10:36.320] a pup, and I don't think at the moment
[00:10:38.880] President Trump is showing good
[00:10:40.560] intentions. I am hearing rumors.
[00:10:45.519] I'm hearing rumors that a very prominent
[00:10:48.000] member of UAP
[00:10:51.279] transparency push may be being
[00:10:54.480] considered for appointment by the Trump
[00:10:56.880] administration.
[00:10:58.560] Um, I hope that comes to pass, but I
[00:11:01.600] hope that it's done in a way that gives
[00:11:04.079] powers powers of subpoena and powers to
[00:11:07.440] compel openness and transparency. At the
[00:11:11.120] moment, I'm really worried that what
[00:11:13.279] we're seeing is another attempt to
[00:11:15.839] control the narrative and uh what would
[00:11:18.640] it be? Project Blue Book ended in around
[00:11:20.800] about 1970. So, it's 50 plus years since
[00:11:24.480] the end of Project Blue Book. And
[00:11:27.440] frankly, all that showed was that the
[00:11:29.360] executive arm of government and the
[00:11:30.959] defense and intelligence community were
[00:11:33.360] able to run rings around the public's
[00:11:36.320] demand for UFO information. God help us
[00:11:40.399] if that's another 50 years before we
[00:11:42.720] learn that the executive governance
[00:11:44.720] committee on UAPs and the science
[00:11:46.640] advisory committee were yet another
[00:11:48.880] project blue book. Uh there's a there's
[00:11:51.360] an opportunity here for President Trump
[00:11:54.160] to do the right thing and to actually
[00:11:58.720] achieve I think greatness as a
[00:12:01.839] president. Any president who made the
[00:12:05.760] definitive announcement that we are not
[00:12:08.639] alone in a responsible and obviously
[00:12:11.120] national security controlled way I think
[00:12:13.760] would be remembered as history as an
[00:12:16.079] epoch making president. Mr. President
[00:12:19.760] this is your opportunity and professor
[00:12:22.079] Avi and every other member of the
[00:12:24.639] various committees. We don't know yet
[00:12:26.320] the constituency of the executive
[00:12:28.079] governance committee. All of you have an
[00:12:31.200] awesome responsibility. Do not allow
[00:12:34.240] yourselves to be invagled into an
[00:12:37.680] ongoing deceit as happened with Project
[00:12:41.200] Blue Book. Thank you, Megan.
[00:12:43.920] >> All right, we will hop into our inbox.
[00:12:45.360] This is from Martin. Hey, Ross. So,
[00:12:47.600] David Grush seems to be releasing more
[00:12:49.360] details concerning UAP crash
[00:12:51.200] retrievalss. Could it be that he is
[00:12:53.200] being given permissions to do this?
[00:12:55.120] Could it be that David is going to be
[00:12:57.120] the one to release little bits when the
[00:12:59.040] timing seems right? Could this have been
[00:13:01.120] planned from the very beginning with his
[00:13:02.880] interview with you? David is mighty high
[00:13:05.200] as profiles go these days concerning the
[00:13:07.200] phenomenon. Just an observation on my
[00:13:09.200] part. Thank you both for being there for
[00:13:10.720] us. Martin,
[00:13:12.800] >> um I don't think David's part of a
[00:13:15.120] controlled disclosure initiative at all.
[00:13:17.760] Um he did and he's been very open about
[00:13:20.079] this. He made an application to do a
[00:13:22.399] defense office pre-publication security
[00:13:25.440] review to get permission to reveal what
[00:13:28.079] he did reveal to me in 2023 and to
[00:13:32.160] Leslie Kaine and Ralph Blumenal in their
[00:13:34.160] written piece for Politico. Um, I have
[00:13:37.040] spoken to David about this and there are
[00:13:39.200] ongoing Doppsa applications that David
[00:13:41.760] has made since his interview and I think
[00:13:44.079] that's why he's been able to speak more
[00:13:45.920] candidly recently to Brett Bayer at Fox
[00:13:49.040] and we hope of course sooner or later
[00:13:51.040] get David back here on Reality Check. I
[00:13:53.920] think the um the assumption that's made
[00:13:57.120] by the viewer that David's part of some
[00:14:00.320] controlled disclosure release is not the
[00:14:02.959] case. Um, David's, I think, um, probably
[00:14:07.040] rocked the boat more than just about any
[00:14:09.519] official in speaking out as prominently
[00:14:11.920] as he has. I don't think people still
[00:14:14.320] realize the significance of someone with
[00:14:16.800] the security clearances of David Grush
[00:14:19.519] speaking as candidly as he has. And boy,
[00:14:22.880] he's come very, very close recently to
[00:14:26.560] he's gone a lot further than he did in
[00:14:29.600] his interview with me. And that's
[00:14:31.199] because he's been cleared to speak a
[00:14:33.360] little more freely. And maybe maybe the
[00:14:35.920] people making those decisions in the
[00:14:37.680] defense department are recognizing that
[00:14:39.920] there is a need, I think, to give the
[00:14:42.079] public more information. Uh I've been
[00:14:44.959] quite amazed, for example, not just
[00:14:46.560] about David's disclosures, but also Dr.
[00:14:48.639] James Latsky, Jim Latsky, when he spoken
[00:14:51.519] publicly about having gone inside a
[00:14:55.360] craft. And I would like to see Jim Leky
[00:14:58.720] put himself up to give evidence under
[00:15:00.880] oath before the Congress in the same way
[00:15:03.279] that David Grush did. Um, and I'd
[00:15:06.000] certainly uh welcome the opportunity if
[00:15:08.639] David was comfortable doing this uh to
[00:15:11.680] see him also being brought back and
[00:15:13.920] deposed uh under the circumstances of
[00:15:16.399] some of the new doppses that I
[00:15:17.920] understand have been allowed since he
[00:15:20.079] spoke in the first instance. But no, I
[00:15:22.880] don't think there's any kind of disc
[00:15:24.720] sort of controlled disclosure going on
[00:15:26.959] where David's a willing participant. But
[00:15:29.839] maybe, just maybe, there's somebody in
[00:15:31.519] the defense department who thinks it's
[00:15:33.279] time to give this a nudge. Uh I do know,
[00:15:36.320] and I I want to say this, it's not an
[00:15:38.800] amorphous blob, the defense department
[00:15:41.040] and the intelligence community. the
[00:15:43.279] people who are blocking uh and using
[00:15:46.480] obfuscation and delay to try and make an
[00:15:49.440] admission about whether or not there is
[00:15:51.199] a nonhuman intelligence engaging with
[00:15:54.000] this planet. They are in the very strong
[00:15:56.639] minority and I think the point is that
[00:15:58.959] they're in leadership positions um in
[00:16:01.920] what passes for the equivalent of an
[00:16:04.079] MJ12 style group in today's language.
[00:16:07.120] Um, there is a control group and these
[00:16:09.680] people operate key positions often,
[00:16:12.240] interestingly enough, not at the top of
[00:16:14.160] organizations. I've been doing some
[00:16:15.839] research on this. I'm pretty clear on
[00:16:18.399] who I know are the gatekeepers in
[00:16:21.040] organizations like NASA, for example,
[00:16:23.519] and they're not at the top of the
[00:16:25.600] organization. They normally keep the
[00:16:27.360] administrator in the dark to a large
[00:16:29.120] degree so that they can convincingly
[00:16:31.120] tell the public what they don't know.
[00:16:33.920] Often they're a few rungs down the
[00:16:35.759] ladder.
[00:16:37.120] And it's the same with every
[00:16:38.959] organization. It it would explain why,
[00:16:41.040] for example, Tom uh Thomas Wilson uh
[00:16:43.839] Admiral Thomas Wilson uh when he uh made
[00:16:47.839] the admissions that he did make to Dr.
[00:16:49.839] Eric Davis uh and and admitted that he
[00:16:53.680] knew about a legacy program. I mean,
[00:16:55.680] this is on the public record. um it
[00:16:58.399] would explain why he didn't know about
[00:17:00.480] that even though he was a a a deputy
[00:17:04.000] head of the intelligence role inside the
[00:17:06.640] defense department. I mean it it's quite
[00:17:08.959] an extraordinary situation but this has
[00:17:10.880] been done very very cleverly but I can
[00:17:14.160] tell you one of the reasons why these
[00:17:16.480] people do need to start seriously
[00:17:18.319] thinking and I'll say this once again
[00:17:20.799] they need to start seriously thinking
[00:17:22.640] about the risks of catastrophic
[00:17:24.720] disclosure. None of us want to see an
[00:17:28.240] unhealthy pouring of national security
[00:17:30.640] secrets out into the public domain in a
[00:17:33.360] way that jeopardizes the ability for the
[00:17:35.679] United States to maintain, I hope,
[00:17:38.160] technological and leadership dominance
[00:17:40.480] on this issue in many, many years to
[00:17:43.120] come. The big risk posed by this slow
[00:17:47.520] drip disclosure, there's two of them.
[00:17:50.240] The first is that people inside the
[00:17:52.320] program are going to get impatient and
[00:17:55.039] dump the whole flaming lot just as is
[00:17:57.919] postulated in the Disclosure Day movie.
[00:18:00.762] [sighs and gasps] The other risk is that
[00:18:03.679] President Z or President Putin will beat
[00:18:06.799] them to the punch. And I just wonder I
[00:18:10.559] just wonder how much of a fun moment it
[00:18:12.640] would be for say the premier of Russia
[00:18:15.440] or China to admit they've known this all
[00:18:19.039] along and that the country that calls
[00:18:21.280] itself the biggest democracy in the
[00:18:23.120] world has been gaslighting dis deceiving
[00:18:25.919] and continues to gaslight and deceive
[00:18:28.000] the public even now. That's the big
[00:18:31.120] risk. I've just done an interview today
[00:18:33.120] actually with um Dr. uh Dr. Martin
[00:18:35.679] Abbass and John Priestley from Unhidden,
[00:18:38.400] which is an organization that prepares
[00:18:41.039] or advises we should be prepared for the
[00:18:44.080] onlogical shock of disclosure. But I
[00:18:47.760] think the biggest shock is the damage
[00:18:51.200] that continued lies cause to faith in
[00:18:55.120] government. And this is why what we're
[00:18:57.600] talking about here with UAPs is
[00:19:01.360] essentially all about maintaining public
[00:19:04.160] faith in governance in the institutions
[00:19:06.559] of government. This is why this matters.
[00:19:10.720] >> All right, we have a question from our
[00:19:12.720] friend Kevin in Canada. Hi Ross and
[00:19:15.039] Megan. Love the show. Question for Ross.
[00:19:16.880] I hear a lot of people talk about how we
[00:19:18.559] need to hold everyone in coverup
[00:19:20.320] accountable for crimes committed in the
[00:19:21.919] name of quote keeping the secret.
[00:19:24.160] Personally, I think that disclosure
[00:19:25.679] doesn't happen without giving amnesty to
[00:19:27.919] those who have hid the secrets. It's
[00:19:29.840] really an easy choice. If we stay that
[00:19:31.760] way, if we stay the way we are, we have
[00:19:34.080] no disclosure and no one goes to jail.
[00:19:36.160] If we give them amnesty, we have
[00:19:37.760] disclosure and they don't go to jail.
[00:19:39.440] Either way, they don't go to jail. So,
[00:19:41.600] why not get something out of it? Love to
[00:19:43.120] hear your thoughts on this, Ross.
[00:19:45.039] >> Well, I was really struck the other day
[00:19:46.480] when I saw that Anna Paulina Luna talked
[00:19:48.559] about the fact that she's been having
[00:19:50.240] conversations with U. Steven Miller, the
[00:19:53.039] deputy chief of staff in the White House
[00:19:55.360] about giving amnesty to people who want
[00:19:58.000] to come forward with more evidence. And
[00:20:00.799] I I know there are people inside the
[00:20:03.600] legacy program who do want to come
[00:20:06.000] forward and they're worried that they're
[00:20:08.240] going to put themselves in breach of
[00:20:09.760] non-disclosure agreements, commercial
[00:20:11.520] non-disclosure agreements with private
[00:20:13.360] military aerospace companies like
[00:20:15.039] Northrup Grman and Loheed Martin. And I
[00:20:18.160] name those country those companies
[00:20:19.760] specifically. They should be named. They
[00:20:22.400] should be shamed.
[00:20:24.400] I think it's important that uh these
[00:20:27.520] people be given amnesty. And my personal
[00:20:30.799] experience, I've spoken about this
[00:20:32.000] before. I had the privilege as a
[00:20:33.600] journalist to cover the truth and
[00:20:35.120] reconciliation commissions in South
[00:20:36.960] Africa shortly after uh Nelson Mandela
[00:20:40.000] became the president of South Africa.
[00:20:41.760] And they were the most profound uh
[00:20:44.480] events. And I think I was the first to
[00:20:46.799] talk about this in commentary on the UAP
[00:20:49.360] issue. I suggested that we should have a
[00:20:51.120] truth and reconciliation commission
[00:20:53.440] where in public hearing the people that
[00:20:55.679] have committed the crimes including
[00:20:57.840] crimes of murder should be publicly held
[00:21:00.880] to account and asked to explain why they
[00:21:03.600] did what they did. I I've spoken
[00:21:06.480] publicly about the fact that there is at
[00:21:08.400] least one account of the murder, the
[00:21:10.799] deliberate murder of a JC operative by
[00:21:14.640] people from a private military
[00:21:16.400] contractor organization that was
[00:21:18.799] overlooked by sections of the defense
[00:21:21.039] department and by executives in that
[00:21:23.760] private military corporation. I think
[00:21:26.159] the people that were responsible for
[00:21:27.679] that incident should be made to come
[00:21:29.760] forward on the promise of an amnesty if
[00:21:32.000] they tell the full truth. But at the
[00:21:34.480] moment, what we've got and we're seeing
[00:21:36.080] at the moment, we're seeing halftruths.
[00:21:38.880] The government's maintaining, I think,
[00:21:40.640] the pretense shock horror. We found
[00:21:43.440] these files in our archives. Oh my
[00:21:46.000] goodness me, look what they reveal.
[00:21:48.080] We've been seeing anomalous objects all
[00:21:50.240] these years. Hell's bells. What a what a
[00:21:53.200] shock. When the truth is, they know full
[00:21:55.760] well they've recovered technology.
[00:21:57.600] They've recovered bodies. And they've
[00:21:59.200] been attempting to reverse engineer them
[00:22:00.880] for years.
[00:22:02.559] the lie in continuing that
[00:22:05.919] semidisclosure
[00:22:07.520] is far worse because that will destroy
[00:22:10.880] faith in government. So yes, there needs
[00:22:13.360] to be an amnesty. I don't doubt that for
[00:22:15.280] a moment the White House is considering
[00:22:17.200] this and I'm very very optimistic that
[00:22:19.440] that if the White House does do a proper
[00:22:22.559] full amnesty, witnesses will come
[00:22:25.200] forward. But I've got a funny feeling
[00:22:27.440] that there's going to be a push back by
[00:22:30.000] the gatekeepers. and I know who they are
[00:22:32.400] to try and stop the White House from
[00:22:34.320] doing this. And it's just an it's going
[00:22:35.840] to be an interesting test of how much
[00:22:37.520] moral courage the president Steven
[00:22:40.000] Miller is the deputy chief of staff in
[00:22:41.919] the White House. How much moral courage
[00:22:44.080] are they prepared to show in taking on
[00:22:47.120] the national security complex that
[00:22:49.360] Eisenhower warned about us warned us all
[00:22:52.240] about in his farewell speech before he
[00:22:54.080] left his role as president. because you
[00:22:56.799] know what is this 70 years on from when
[00:23:00.240] um Dwight Eisenhower left the presidency
[00:23:03.280] he warned about the rise in the power of
[00:23:06.159] the national security state and of
[00:23:08.640] course he was instrumental in creating
[00:23:11.280] the cover up of the whole UAP issue and
[00:23:14.799] so in many ways it's up to a more
[00:23:17.679] courageous president to have the courage
[00:23:19.919] to be able to deconstruct that coverup
[00:23:22.799] narrative
[00:23:24.720] and for that we do need an amnesty
[00:23:28.240] beyond any shadow of a doubt.
[00:23:31.039] >> All right, we will move to Tracy. This
[00:23:32.559] is on X. Love both your shows and watch
[00:23:34.640] every episode. My question is in
[00:23:36.240] relation to the third drop of UAP files
[00:23:38.799] from the White House. What is your
[00:23:40.400] opinion on the audio files regarding the
[00:23:42.960] dark side of the moon? Keep up the great
[00:23:44.960] work.
[00:23:46.080] >> Okay, so yes, there there is an audio
[00:23:48.799] file. Um I've got a note of it actually.
[00:23:50.880] The Apollo 16 scientific debriefing
[00:23:54.000] audio audio
[00:23:56.000] um it came in release three on June the
[00:23:58.240] 12th. I think the audio files have got
[00:24:00.480] something like um NASA D024
[00:24:04.799] or NASA D025
[00:24:07.760] and they were a scientific debriefing of
[00:24:10.559] the Apollo 16 astronauts and scientists.
[00:24:13.919] And in the audio they noted a whole lot
[00:24:17.600] of things. unusual gravity readings and
[00:24:20.880] measurements, laser data experiments and
[00:24:23.520] gammaray data and particularly
[00:24:26.480] unexplained formations or features that
[00:24:29.200] had been detected on the moon's far
[00:24:31.200] side. They noted, for example, there's a
[00:24:33.840] huge great big hole near the
[00:24:35.919] Vandagramraph crater and it was tied to
[00:24:39.679] obvious anomalies in gravity and laser
[00:24:43.120] data that they couldn't explain. They
[00:24:45.120] were scientifically stumped by something
[00:24:47.840] on the moon is gravitationally
[00:24:50.559] anomalous.
[00:24:52.400] And there was also a gamma ray secondary
[00:24:55.440] peak which is also significant. They
[00:24:57.679] didn't know what it meant. Why would the
[00:24:59.360] moon be emitting peaks in gamma rays?
[00:25:02.587] [sighs and gasps]
[00:25:03.279] There was a notable quote about half an
[00:25:05.520] hour into this scientific briefing where
[00:25:08.320] somebody made what sounds like, and I
[00:25:10.559] think it might have been a joking
[00:25:12.000] comment, an off-hand speculative remark.
[00:25:14.400] quote, "It could be an alien star base
[00:25:17.440] or something. I don't know."
[00:25:20.400] And then they changed the topics very
[00:25:22.480] quickly. So, it might have just been a
[00:25:24.000] dismissive comment. But I really do want
[00:25:27.279] to to drill in on this whole issue of
[00:25:30.559] lunar anomalies because the viewer's
[00:25:32.720] question is a very pertinent one because
[00:25:35.679] since we last did our Q&As's uh Lou
[00:25:38.559] Alzando gave a great interview to the
[00:25:41.360] Liberation Times Christopher Sharp on
[00:25:43.840] the 3rd of June and he started talking
[00:25:46.799] about how there are claims about the
[00:25:48.720] moon relating to classified sources of
[00:25:50.960] information that he's unable to comment
[00:25:53.360] on. It's a terrible tease. Mr. Alzando
[00:25:56.880] um asked whether he has any knowledge
[00:25:59.679] directly or indirectly of non-human
[00:26:01.919] intelligence being on the moon. I was
[00:26:05.039] really shocked to hear Lou's response.
[00:26:07.200] He answered with one word. Yes, he is
[00:26:11.440] aware directly or indirectly of
[00:26:13.840] non-human intelligence being on the
[00:26:15.760] moon. [gasps]
[00:26:17.520] He was asked to comment and he said,
[00:26:19.600] quote, "There are certain classified
[00:26:21.520] sources of information that I am unable
[00:26:23.600] to elaborate that indicate that the moon
[00:26:26.400] is or was perhaps of particular interest
[00:26:29.520] by something or someone else other than
[00:26:32.480] us." [sighs and gasps]
[00:26:34.240] He then added that as humanity returns
[00:26:37.039] to the moon and establishes a more
[00:26:38.880] permanent presence there, more
[00:26:41.279] discoveries may or will follow. quote,
[00:26:45.360] "Let's face it, after years of denial,
[00:26:48.720] NASA has finally released photos from
[00:26:51.840] the surface of the moon that depict
[00:26:54.559] anomalies. And I hope this is a
[00:26:56.640] reference to the good work we've been
[00:26:58.000] doing here on Reality Check with Dr. Max
[00:27:01.279] Derek Shani as well where we've
[00:27:02.960] highlighted a lot of those anomalies the
[00:27:04.960] blue lights the weird blue lights that
[00:27:07.693] [sighs and gasps] I noticed
[00:27:08.640] distressingly professor Avy Loe has
[00:27:10.480] tried to implausibly explain away as
[00:27:12.559] cosmic rays hitting human eyeballs. Um
[00:27:15.520] it doesn't explain how cameras were also
[00:27:18.000] able to pick up the same anomaly and the
[00:27:19.840] same anomaly was picked up by multiple
[00:27:21.919] human eyeballs. The chances of that
[00:27:24.159] happening are extremely remote,
[00:27:25.919] Professor Loe, and we expect more
[00:27:28.159] rigorous science in how you approach
[00:27:30.480] your science advisory council advice to
[00:27:32.799] Arrow.
[00:27:34.320] Lou went on to say that quote, "I highly
[00:27:37.520] suspect we're going to begin to discover
[00:27:39.919] hints of habitation or artifacts very
[00:27:43.760] similar to what we may be seeing already
[00:27:48.400] on Mars and that life may in fact be
[00:27:52.720] much more pervasive than we thought."
[00:27:56.480] That was a cracker of a comment that Lou
[00:27:59.440] gave to Chris Sharp on the Liberation
[00:28:02.000] Times and I was amazed it didn't get
[00:28:04.320] more coverage. That that is an express
[00:28:06.960] admission frankly that there is
[00:28:10.240] anomalous phenomena that suggests
[00:28:12.480] non-human intelligence on the moon
[00:28:15.520] particularly formations and particularly
[00:28:17.760] the kinds of potential artificial
[00:28:19.760] structures that we've been highlighting
[00:28:21.679] recently in our reports about the moon
[00:28:24.159] with Dr. Max, Derek Shnie, and keep an
[00:28:26.399] eye out, by the way, for a new episode
[00:28:28.399] of Reality Check. We've just recorded it
[00:28:30.559] this week with Max, where he takes us
[00:28:33.760] through
[00:28:35.520] mindblowing anomalies on Mars and
[00:28:39.919] Phobos, the moon of Mars. Boy, it's a
[00:28:44.559] great episode. I'm very excited to be
[00:28:46.720] bringing it to you. It blew my mind.
[00:28:49.039] Absolutely exciting stuff. But yes,
[00:28:52.320] um I think the weight of evidence is we
[00:28:56.000] now need to look extremely closely at
[00:28:59.840] why there is now such a rush. Why did
[00:29:01.919] Elon Musk for example suddenly change
[00:29:04.320] his mind about focusing on a Mars
[00:29:06.960] mission and focus on a moon mission and
[00:29:09.520] why are they so focused on one of the
[00:29:11.279] poles of the moon?
[00:29:13.840] I've got a pretty clear idea about what
[00:29:15.840] they know. And I think they're going to
[00:29:18.799] look for artificial structures that are
[00:29:21.679] suggestive of a prior nonhuman
[00:29:24.000] intelligence civilization on the moon
[00:29:26.640] that may in fact still be there. There.
[00:29:31.039] Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
[00:29:33.520] >> That's just so exciting. Um, love that.
[00:29:36.320] We're going to sneak one more in, Ross,
[00:29:37.760] because our boss Andy actually has a
[00:29:41.120] question for you. So, here's what he
[00:29:42.559] wants to ask. Does Ross care about
[00:29:45.440] soccer? Because the United States plays
[00:29:48.080] Australia on Friday. [laughter] He also
[00:29:51.120] notes Ross is Scottish in heritage and
[00:29:55.200] he's been seeing funny stories about how
[00:29:56.720] the Scottish fans are drinking Boston
[00:29:59.200] out of beer. [laughter]
[00:30:02.240] >> Yes, Scottish fans, God bless them. Go
[00:30:05.039] lads. I there's part of me that is
[00:30:06.960] Scottish and yes I take great pride in
[00:30:09.840] being both Scottish, British, Australian
[00:30:13.520] and New Zealander because it means I
[00:30:15.679] always win in the rugby and hopefully
[00:30:18.480] also in the football which of course as
[00:30:21.600] you Americans don't seem to understand
[00:30:23.360] is the correct name for soccer. Uh we
[00:30:26.320] don't call it soccer, we call it
[00:30:28.159] football but I will help you with that
[00:30:30.480] little aberration. I'm looking forward
[00:30:32.720] to the uh soccer absolutely creaming and
[00:30:36.000] flattening the Americans on the weekend
[00:30:38.720] and hopefully by the time this Q&A goes
[00:30:40.880] to air we will be celebrating our
[00:30:42.720] victory. There have been some very
[00:30:44.399] unkind comments about the soccer from
[00:30:46.640] some of the American commentators and I
[00:30:48.960] can tell you the five eyes alliance is
[00:30:51.039] being stretched very thin right now.
[00:30:53.440] We're very very proud of our effort and
[00:30:55.440] of course whoever wins we wish them the
[00:30:57.760] best of luck and uh may the best person
[00:31:00.960] win and of course that'll be the
[00:31:02.720] Australians.
[00:31:04.000] >> All right. Well, go sports. That's it
[00:31:05.919] for today, Ross.
[00:31:07.520] >> Thanks very much, Megan. Um and of
[00:31:09.520] course, if you do want to ask us
[00:31:10.880] questions here on Reality Check, please
[00:31:12.559] send your questions in to reality checks
[00:31:16.480] now.com.
[00:31:18.080] You can send any hot tips on the
[00:31:20.320] encrypted server I use, which is Proton
[00:31:22.640] Mail. You can get your own free proton
[00:31:24.880] mail by logging in to proton.com
[00:31:27.919] and you can send it to mukra raker m u c
[00:31:31.520] k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k
[00:31:31.600] k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k
[00:31:31.840] r r a k e r at protonmmail.com.
[00:31:35.600] I'm particularly interested in hearing
[00:31:37.279] from people in NASA and certain agencies
[00:31:39.919] like NGIA about Luna and Mars anomalies
[00:31:44.399] because I have some strong leads on
[00:31:46.480] those at the moment. Keep them coming.
[00:31:48.399] Thank you very much to the person who
[00:31:50.080] dumped a huge pile my way this week.
[00:31:52.880] And of course, if you do choose
[00:31:56.000] foolishly, of course, to listen instead
[00:31:58.480] to Reality Check, then you can hear it
[00:32:00.559] on all good audio platforms, including
[00:32:03.679] Audible and Spotify, because, and we all
[00:32:07.200] know this, too much reality check is
[00:32:09.840] barely enough. Thank you so much. And
[00:32:12.159] thank you, Megan.
[00:32:13.120] >> Thanks, Ross.
[00:32:16.320] >> Thank you for watching. Subscribe below
[00:32:18.240] and download our NewsNation app right
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