UAP Gerb - "UFO Crash Retrievals, Disclosure & Extended QnA" (August 30, 2026)

• Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejwu3-1Gd98
• Channel: UAP Gerb
• Published: 2026-08-30
• Duration: 2:34:07
• Participants: UAP Gerb, Rob Jones, and Kermit
• Extraction: complete audio downloaded with yt.sh -a and transcribed through the production FreeTranscribe queue with nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v3 revision 7c35754d166cca382ad1e53e68b01e7c575f3a1d, transcript schema 2, 2026-08-30
• Rendering: one successful 80-minute production artifact plus four 20-minute-or-shorter production artifacts were merged at their source offsets and grouped with the pipeline's timestamped paragraph renderer; the merged base contains 1,203 recognized segments and 29,586 recognized words. Focused independent decoding corrected two passages and added a net 26 words.
• Validation: source identity and duration verified; timestamp coverage and transcript continuity inspected at the beginning, each merge boundary, the middle, and the ending. A later continuous production run exposed a silent long-run omission and an incorrect transition. The affected audio at 56:14 and 1:20:31-1:20:50 was independently decoded with Systran/faster-whisper-large-v3 revision edaa852ec7e145841d8ffdb056a99866b5f0a478, then corrected below. YouTube captions were disabled, so no caption-track comparison was available.
• Fidelity note: automated recognition and timestamps may contain errors, especially in proper names, acronyms, overlapping speech, and Welsh place names. Community-1 diarization found three speakers in each production artifact, but speaker labels are omitted because the separate runs assigned chunk-local identities that were not manually reconciled.
• Analytical pages: ../../sources/gerb-uap-open-source-researcher; ../../sources/nuro-national-underwater-reconnaissance-office

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[0:00] ones. So I'll talk to him. What's going on, guys? We are starting live. Uh let me know if you guys can hear us, if you can see us in the chat.

[0:10] We'll wait a couple minutes, uh, see, wait for people to filter in and then get started today. Let us know in the chat. I got something running over there.

[0:20] Okay, let's go. Okay. Just somebody confirmed that they can hear us, they can see us, and that everything's good to go. We got a lot to chat with today, and it's uh I'm really excited to talk to the boys here.

[0:32] Uh testing is my power supply working? Anybody? Yeah, if if anybody missed last live, uh right before we went live. Okay, great. Yeah, we're good. Right before we went live, uh, Rob's power supply on his computer died, and uh Kerm had to give a legendary PowerPoint without Rob.

[0:49] But that was a classic PowerPoint. Rob, did you have a chance to to review it, look at it? It was a generational performance by by Kerm. It was wonderful.

[0:59] Yeah, so so what we're gonna do today, uh, you know, we're gonna kind of talk about a little bit about some some current events going on, some of the onslaught of interviews we've gotten recently.

[1:09] You know, there's the Rick Doty on Area 52, Jesse Michaels on JRE, Matthew Brown on uh J American Alchemy. There is also Eric Davis on on Third Eye Drops with Michael Phillip that I thought was a very interesting interview.

[1:23] Uh, the bulk of what I want to do today actually is uh, you know, there's so much discussion about the disclosure process, about the Trump administration, about Congress and so forth.

[1:32] I wanted to rewind a little bit and talk about UFOs, non human intelligence. So I actually asked Rob and Kerm to put together their top five favorite crash retrieval cases, as well as sort of a hot take about crash retrievals and maybe one that uh, you know, the public puts a lot of stock in that they might disagree with.

[1:49] So we're going to talk about all those. Um, we got a really extended um QA session as well. We took questions on from the YouTube posts and from the Discord.

[1:58] A lot of great people in the Discord uh I'll get a post to the link in Discord to join uh in the comments in just a moment. But we took those questions, we got a PowerPoint to go through those.

[2:07] And uh yeah, fellas, if you want to say hi, and then we will just kind of get into things. Rob, you want to start us off? Yeah, absolutely. I don't know how long it's been since I've been on the stream.

[2:18] It's been a long time. Uh a lot's happened since then. Uh so what's up? Uh, to anybody who is not aware of who I am, my name is Rob Jones.

[2:26] I'm a producer for News Nation. I work on reality check with Ross Colthart, basically, Ross's guy in the United States. Uh, my appearance here constitutes my appearance as a private citizen, in case anybody's wondering.

[2:41] Um, all opinions are my own, and none of the research presented here represents anything that is a conflict of interest with my television show that I work on and actively love.

[2:52] So, in case that puts that out there with any question, um, yeah, that's what I am, that's who I do. I don't know how I ended up with this job or doing all this.

[3:01] It's all directly a result of my friendship with these two guys. Uh, so that's it. You can find me on Twitter at Rob Jones Reports. Well, Rob, at least being your friend for the past couple of years, I am so immensely proud of you and the work that you've been doing recently at Reality Check.

[3:20] So it's just it's just so like heartwarming to watch you every day, truly. So, um, Kermit, hey guys. Uh, I know I've been on quite a few of these live streams.

[3:31] So, how's it going? For those of you guys who don't know who I am, I've been interested in this topic uh for the past couple of years, became friends with Rob and Gurb through kind of my research uh kind of journey, and we went to a number of hearings, number of conferences.

[3:45] We've been covering this topic all over the place. Gurb and I, we've actually talked to a number of witnesses. I've helped him uh film a number of his interviews.

[3:53] So it's always fun working with my man Gerb and uh it's always great seeing my boy Rob just cracking the whip, just going going to town up there in DC, especially now.

[4:03] So um, yeah, it's been it's been great and uh looking forward to this live stream. Yeah, Kern, put it put a pin in what you said towards the end.

[4:11] I actually want to talk about that later. With that's relevant to some of our QA questions. Of course, you're the man behind the camera for when I talked to Jonathan Wagans when we went out there where he lives on the eastern seaboard.

[4:22] And uh, one of the interesting conversations that didn't make it into the video, but that you were present for and engaged in is uh we talked to Wagans, uh, not about his specific knowledge on the event, because of course he had been beaten and removed from the situation by then, but on how he thought the retrieval process may have gone of the enormous craft being actually plucked out of the granite cliff face, about how you know, large cranes may have been employed to actually take the craft out of this mountainside.

[4:47] And, you know, that might kind of dovetail into discussion of some very big assets that have uh a difficulty in in moving or transporting. But uh again, Glads, thank you so much for joining me.

[4:58] Um, I I'm not gonna introduce myself. If people are watching, they probably know uh what this channel is. So let's just go ahead and start. Probably the elephant in the room in terms of recent kind of news, interviews, discussions, podcasts, whatever you want to say is um Richard Doty doing an episode on Chris Ramsey's Area 52.

[5:14] I've seen some blowback towards Chris Ramsey that I do disagree with. I personally am very weary of Rick Doty, as I discussed in one of my projects when talking about Office of Special Investigations.

[5:25] But I do think it's really interesting that uh Chris Ramsey had him on, so we can uh hear in an extended format from Rick Doty. Of course, Chris also said um, Doty spoke to him at a dinner following the episode that Doty was worried he may have gone too far in places in the interview.

[5:40] And uh I I personally took that away as well. I think one of the biggest assessments I took away from that interview was uh Rick Doty almost directly implied outside of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, he also ran information ops, counterintelligence, disinformation, just uh psychological operations on the topic of UFOs for the CIA as well.

[6:02] He routinely stated that he had uh agency ventures for this topic as well. Have you guys listened to the full interview? Have you guys seen some clips on it?

[6:10] And uh I'd love to get your thoughts as well. I've seen some clips. I haven't watched the full interview just yet, but looking to check it out soon. I have to make a blanket statement about interviews that have come out in the past like two to three weeks.

[6:25] Um, unfortunately, I I'm gonna I'm gonna give an anecdote really briefly. There's a guy at my office that when I go in, he always comes up to me and asks me, and I apologize in advance if you see this dude.

[6:39] This is not your fault. Um, he always comes up and asks me, like, Hey, did you see this interview or hey, did you see that interview? And when I like sat down and thought about all of the interviews he'd asked me about in the past two weeks, it's like 40 hours of content.

[6:54] And I was like, I was like, dude, I don't know what to tell you. Like, I know this is gonna sound to you like I'm not doing my job, but I'm I just I make interviews.

[7:04] I don't really get the chance to watch everybody else's. Admittedly, I do try and go back and watch or read transcripts um and watch clips or even the whole interview in my free time if I have the opportunity to do so.

[7:16] But I'm in the midst of trying to produce not only just finished up a previous special we did on Estonia, uh, but working on a new special that I can't talk about yet and a bunch of other stuff.

[7:26] So unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to watch a lot of this new content that's come out in the last week and a half. So sure, way of saying that.

[7:34] Yeah, so I I can certainly give some other interesting things I found in that interview and we can discuss it. Uh, you know, of course, Doty was a special agent for the Air Force Office of Special Invasion uh investigations, AFOSI, AFOSI.

[7:48] Uh, but he he talked about a a little couple of dirty words within the AFOSI that I talk about quite often. That's uh pretty entwined within program protection of the UFO subject, and that's AFOSI PJ, the Office of Special Projects.

[8:01] He, for the first time, as far as I'm aware, uh talked directly that PJ elements were attached to uh the UFO subject in an official capacity. And of course, you know, you fellas know, and you know, if you guys out there have uh watched my channel, you'll know about Terry Phillips, Liam Russ, and just sort of the importance that PJ uh has to this topic.

[8:19] And there are uh dozens of field offices across the continental United States, including at numerous naval facilities as well. Pax River for one. Very so he so he mentions in the I I now I'm absolutely gonna go back and watch this, but he mentioned specifically like there was a detachment within AFOSIPJ that was like they had UFO portfolio like what I guess what was his like again, I need to go watch this, but like what was his like specific wording on the like portfolio aspect of it?

[8:49] Yes, he directly names PJ as an element of AFOSI attached to the UFO portfolio. Gotcha. Okay. Which you know that which is interesting to me because I I fully agree with that assessment.

[9:01] Um, what also stood out to me as really interesting from that interview was Rick Doty talked about his work with Hal Putoff. Uh, but when Chris Ramsey wisely kind of pressed him, hey, you know, did Hal Putoff know what you were doing?

[9:13] Running human ops, running counterintelligence on on the subject and so forth, Rick Doty said, Yeah, Hal Putoff knew what I was doing. Uh so that kind of uh brings the go ahead, Rob.

[9:23] Uh well, no, I mean that that's that's really interesting that you bring that up because if I see I seem to recall that there's an email in the CERPO emails in which one of the exchanges indicates that how put off at EarthTech had hired a counterintelligence expert, if I'm not mistaken.

[9:44] I I think you're right, actually. Yeah. No, I need to go back and check this, but like that immediately rang a bell because I remember somebody having a thread about that recently on Twitter and going back and looking through all those emails.

[9:56] And if I recall correctly, they there's a redacted name because they don't share the name in the email chain of who the counterintelligence expert is. But if the timeline lines up, that could potentially be what that's in reference to uh that how put off hired him at Earth Tech.

[10:12] Um yeah I mean um Dodie was surprisingly open at least from his point of view on some some topics. I personally will listen to what he has to say but but don't take in any of his information into my own personal assessments on the topic.

[10:27] I did also want to talk I I know you haven't seen this Rob but maybe you have Kerm or some clips. Uh Dr. Eric Davis on Third Eye drops with Michael Phillip and shout out Michael Phillip.

[10:36] He's a great dude we spent some time with him at Contact in the desert awesome guy. Oh for two man I haven't seen this one either. Okay okay I I'll kind of talk it through because you guys will find it interesting because of course it it kind of dovetails directly into what I do on the channel, what I talk about um and this is a you know I I am starting to build up a little bit of a history I guess with with Dr.

[10:55] Eric Davis. You know I've I've kind of criticized or or called out his his openness on the topic specifically regarding uh reverse engineering of of both airframes, assets technologies etc and and he's kind of responded a few times both indirectly and directly uh most recently on the uh Good Trouble show with Matt Ford constantly referring to me as uh Sammy and saying I'm I'm wrong on a lot of this topic.

[11:19] Uh but I'm not really interested in engaging that I I more want to focus on what he said. I would like to say something just about that before you move forward.

[11:27] Just as an interjection to everybody who's not aware context wise um Dr. Davis is well known as an autodidact in the community. Dr. Eric Davis does not forget things like at all.

[11:40] He'll remember the exact way you phrased something 15 to 20 years later. I don't know if after you know his health issues, which I believe he had a stroke at some point, um, you know he's still fully functional, lives his life he's great, he's good to go.

[11:55] But I don't know if that's affected that in any way I'm not led to believe it has but he is very well known as an autodidact who remembers everything.

[12:04] So if there's an instance in which Dr. Davis pretends not to remember something or pretends not to know who Sam is who interviewed him you know several years ago, um, that I believe Tet to be willful.

[12:15] So please go on. Yeah so so what I found interesting is you know for a long time at this point and the tide kind of seemed to change in the age of disclosure but now has reverted back to his original stance.

[12:25] Uh and Dr. Davis talked about this at Seoul 24 in 2024 is that there has never been any progress or made in in the uh UFO reverse engineering portfolio.

[12:36] Uh I personally have three strong disagreements I agree with Dr. Davis on quite a few things, but uh three strong disagreements with him this is A, what he and his compatriots state that the UFO crash retrieval portfolio was shut down in 1989 due to lack of progress and their cognizant government authority, the CIA not wanting to spend a bunch of money on that, I personally disagree with that vehemently uh two, that there of course has been no progress within the realm of reverse engineering and so forth.

[13:06] And um I would say that those are probably my my two big disagreements with Dr. Davis and I have one more but it's kind of slipping my mind at the moment.

[13:15] But but as far as Dr. Davis saying there has never oh and three the the the element and the construct of the legacy program singular as described in the age of disclosure documentary.

[13:25] Those are the three big disagreements I have uh but I've but I you know you and I you guys have we've all talked about this offline you know why is Dr.

[13:32] Davis saying that there's been no progress in the reverse engineering portfolio which he kind of went back on in the age of disclosure documentary where he and Halput are talking about reverse engineered assets and airframes and goes back to there's never been progress made in this portfolio in the Michael Phillip interview.

[13:48] So one of the theories I had as to why Dr. Davis has said that is a very limited scope of of the program he was exposed to. And I think in this Michael Phillip interview we get a real clear picture of what uh Dr.

[14:01] Davis was directly exposed to and this was two things. This was a a crash retrieval uh effort and initiative and and and at that point okay so this would have been the during the Cold War still that Davis was exposed to this special project within TRW um as well as Dr the late Dr.

[14:20] Jim Rider's crash retrieval more so reverse engineering portfolio out of Lockheed Martin uh space systems company so listen to this because I think you guys will find this very interesting as I found it very interesting.

[14:31] The TRW crash retrieval portfolio, there's ties there to the Wilson Davis notes, of course a the name of a senior VP out at TRW, a female in this case, who was Dr.

[14:42] Davis's primary source for you know TRW's work on the programs. If anybody doesn't know TRW I strongly recommend watching my video on TRW and Northrop Grumman. But Dr. Davis says that this specific crash retrieval portfolio out of TRW at which the senior VP was sort of the security manager of the project had six recovered craft six recovered craft in particular but all six of these craft were recovered Oconis.

[15:08] So according to Davis and that uh senior VP at uh TRW, TRW's project portfolio was only craft six in particular that were retrieved outside of the country I found that extremely interesting and I found that extremely interesting in conjunction with Davis saying that most crash retrievals have been conducted in the maritime environment so these retrievals happen OCOS but are they presumably held CONUS or are they held outside?

[15:36] Okay. It sounded like uh facilities at which TRW owned or was connected with you know you can think of the El Segundo area maybe um sort of Antelope Valley region.

[15:47] Um sites probably North of Grumma now owns from TRW's uh systems group and um that sort of portfolio out of TRW. But according to this this source at uh TRW as well uh there was one instance in which one of these six craft because TRW couldn't make heads or tails of them uh accidentally turned on and emitted a very high piercing shriek.

[16:08] That's all Davis knows he doesn't know if if that sort of sound was managed if the craft was powered down if so to speak or what happened following that.

[16:15] I found that extremely interesting um especially that TRW seemed to have just dealt with uh craft recovered Oconis because in the in the zeitgeist TRW was infamously connected to uh the Zodiac crash retrieval story that was outlined by of course the pseudonym Sedge Masters of the story of supposedly uh Eric Davis's source at TRW who again uh I I believe that woman has now passed in 2022 2023.

[16:42] The second bit of Dr. Eric Davis talking about Dr. Jim Ryder Rob you look like you have something to say. Yeah I just wanted to point out something that I found to be a little bit of tradecraft.

[16:54] Whenever you find that somebody has a story that like let's say like Eric Davis has this story that he's been told understandably I believe that this is second hand information from him um when you know you've got like a weird detail like uh one of them emitted a weird shrieking sound and they accidentally turned it on.

[17:16] To me and this is just to me that sounds like to me what you would do when you tell five different people a different version of the same story and each one of them has a slightly different detail so you know who leaked it.

[17:32] That makes sense. I will say that's all I wanted to say. Yeah I think that's a great point Rob and and specifically regarding that employee uh I personally have been in uh strange circumstances where folks connected with that sort of OSAP uh what a lot of people call circular reporting crew have kind of egged me on and said hey you know Davis is source from from TRW you know her name right and so I I've I have found it a little weird that specific people have like really encouraged me to stick to and kind of glom on to that story.

[18:02] But the second piece and I I do think this clears up a quite a bit of of discussion around this topic Davis is talking about Dr. Jim Ryder. He doesn't say his name he doesn't even say Lockheed but of course we all know it's Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company.

[18:15] He stated that this specific portfolio under Jim Ryder, this is of course connected to Kona Blue and the technology transfer agreement through the OSAP that was that was killed by Glenn Gaffney and CIA and likely Robert Cardillo, Mary Sturtavant and a whole suite of folks with interest in protecting the CIA's asset.

[18:32] But according to Davis, this program outlined under Jim Ryder, Lockheed Martin would just receive you know materials. They wouldn't receive craft they would hey this this bulkhead and most of the engineers uh and this comports with what I understand we're not told uh what the materials were where they came from or or sort of a history of chain of custody of those materials.

[18:52] And so essentially as Dr. Jim Ryder said to Davis this material reverse engineering program was just a tiny slice of a pie. And just within this set of materials reverse engineering, Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company had not made any sort of breakthroughs in in material exploitation.

[19:10] So to me that starts to answer a lot of questions I had uh and can kind of say that you know maybe Dr. Davis has a little bit more narrow of a view um than I may have understood previously.

[19:21] Yeah, that makes sense. And I would also say like in terms of material exploitation, it's I mean it's hard to truly know what's going on on the inside but just like theory wise if you're just segmenting off these like very disparate like specific pieces of technology and say hey figure this out without having an understanding of like the larger picture or the bigger part, you're yeah, you're not gonna be successful.

[19:45] So I and I when we hear this all the time of like one of the impediments I think to progress well not I think but it's been reported is like one of the impediments to progress within the reverse engineering is like the compartmentalization itself is the over secrecy of like person A and person B, though they may be working on the same things, they're not allowed to talk to each other.

[20:04] I mean Davis himself even elaborated on this concept during our interview with him in 2024. And he did on a third eye drop as well. I I just thought that was a little revealing.

[20:14] I wanted to talk about that about, you know, it it seems like Dr. Davis's knowledge is firmly uh segmented within uh TRW and and Lockheed Martin and that's sort of where the most of Hitch knowledge lies most of his knowledge lies.

[20:26] And so uh you know I perhaps his comments about you know no breakthroughs in reverse engineering are sequestered specifically to those two program silos. Let's let's talk about one more go ahead Rob.

[20:39] Well just one thing I wanted to mention before we go is that you know it's worth noting for the the viewers that you know that we explicitly say that those two companies probably represent a very small portion of the broad spectrum of programs within this topic.

[21:06] So you guys should look him up on Twitter. He's a great FOIA researcher and just overall researcher in the topic um but Davis had said on American Alchemy that it was a collection of crash retrieval materials.

[21:20] And what I believe that to be is anything that was too messed up for anybody to make heads or tails of if it was small debris that was then collected into a large group of materials from a certain era probably the 1950s that was then set aside and were they're like well you know we can't figure anything with this out because it's all too small debris.

[21:42] It's not associated with anything there's no contextual information with other pieces to go with it. So let's just pawn it off on somebody but that's all yeah I I think that's a that's a very good point Robin you know furthermore in kind of my assessment that Dr.

[21:57] Davis's uh view of the legacy program apparatus may be a little bit more narrow than I had previously suspected is right. Uh he also made a post on LinkedIn or commented on a post on LinkedIn and stated that in the you know 80 plus year duration of the legacy initiative that there have only been four defense contractors.

[22:14] You know, by extrapolating we can probably assume this is TRW, uh Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and you know I'm trying to think of who the fourth maybe Bell Labs, because uh Dr.

[22:25] Davis does cite Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso quite often and only one FFRDC, which we can extrapolate of course as the Aerospace corporation has been involved in the UFO legacy program effort.

[22:36] That's you know that that to me I don't even need to expand on that is an incredibly inaccurate and and and too narrow. Yeah very narrow. So you know there's there's some other interviews but I know you guys haven't seen them so we might as well launch into the crash retrieval topic.

[22:52] Uh you know if if you've been watching my channel for a long time you know that legacy programs, crash retrievals that's my bread and butter. Uh I very early on fell in love with talking about crash retrievals on my channel.

[23:02] Absolutely love it. One you know one day soon I'll have a new crash retrieval video, hopefully a nice three three and a half hour investigation. But so what I asked uh Kerm and Rob to do here because I really want to talk about UFOs and not the current state of disclosure until we get to the QA is to pick out their top five UFO crash retrievals.

[23:20] We're going to start at the bottom of their list with number five and we're gonna alternate going up. So Kerm, I'm gonna ask you of all UFO crash retrieval cases that have occurred within the zeitgeist within it could be a very little case known in the Majestic documents or a huge case like you know Roswell or Kingman, I would like to know what's your fifth most favorite UFO crash retrieval case?

[23:39] Fifth most favorite I would say number at number five on Kerm dog's list of crash retrievals we got Kexberg this is uh this is an OG classic in in of all like the cases this one has I think one of the larger paper trails behind it.

[23:55] Also legendary journalist Leslie Kane won a lawsuit against NASA for records related to this uh supposed not just UFO sighting but also there was a crash retrieval there was a military presence reported in Pennsylvania uh and some of the witnesses claim to have seen an acorn shaped object taken away on the flatbeg truck in the middle of the night.

[24:15] So that's some real X file stuff. So it's a very solid number five for me. The next four should be interesting. Yeah let's uh let's let's talk about that entry a little bit because I I agree with you Kerman you know furthermore there's so much uh uh worthwhile investigation stemming from Keksburg mainly you know Dr.

[24:31] Eric Walker who was first mentioned by Robert Sarbacher way back in the 50s and then in 1983 with William Steinman uh in 1987 to 1990 interviews Dr. Eric A Walker you know who was the Dean of Engineering for Penn State said yeah I was present at Keksburg I was a civilian uniformed individual on site um also you know Leslie Kane also kind of tackled the counter argument to Kexburg that it was a Russian probe at the time which I think can can be pretty conclusively dismissed.

[24:59] Um I love the Kexburg case Kerm I I think that's great. Rob what are your thoughts? Hi uh Kexburg was my number one so oh yeah yeah it's okay this is bound to happen so we'll definitely get there but like Kexburg absolutely is one of my favorite cases of all time way too many people saw that case for that to possibly not have happened.

[25:23] Also the military response was far too fast but we'll get into that. Number five then Rob what's your number five okay so I've got some weird ones um some that not everybody has necessarily heard of um my number five is one that I actually think didn't happen uh it's South Haven Park uh in Long Island New York 1992 in 1992 yes I believe this to be a fabrication if I'm not mistaken but that's just me being a cynical skeptic um it's uh it's a crash that supposedly happened when an object exploded over a park in Long Island supposedly broke into six separate objects that all had different impact craters um there were supposedly bodies that were recovered and material that was taken back to Brookhaven National Laboratory which for those familiar is extremely close by um yes there's a documented closure of that park no there's not a documented incident anywhere else of any type of aircraft incident any military presence vehicles anything like that um having gone back and looked for a paper trail there's very little of that there's only one or two witnesses um it's it the evidentiary foundation is extremely poor um to say the least but it's a compelling case I think it sounds cool um I just don't think it actually happened I think the guy that really came up with the case was looking for some attention if I'm being perfectly honest.

[26:54] I'm not trying to slight his character or anything um but I think maybe he thought it happened but I'm not sure that it did. So correct me if I'm wrong Rob but I believe the primary investigator of the 1992 take uh case over Long Island, a man who was at that time head of the I think Long Island MUFON chapter or another UFO investigative body, uh he was actually later on arrested for trying to poison somebody if if I'm not mistaken.

[27:20] So the lead investigator uh has a very weird history himself. Yeah I was gonna get into that but yeah he got arrested for trying to poison somebody um I I don't want to get into too many details about his crime no say more I need to know the whole story now oh god I gotta if you know it I mean I can I don't know it off the top of my head I just know that I saw the headline when I was doing my research for this and it gave me a really great chuckle and I had to include a line in my notes about it but I didn't I wasn't sure if I was comfortable going too far into detail about his crime.

[27:53] Give me one second to try and find the article. Okay. While you're looking that up we got a couple super chats Rob I'm gonna go through those while you find that and then we will continue on uh Obex thank you very much uh you know I as far as uh Ross Colthart mentions Dave going on Rogan uh I'm unaware of that I I don't know if that's that's founded or unfounded but yeah I do think as as we've kind of seen with um some of the videos that have been posted by James Fox of Dylan Borland, Matthew Brown Dave Grush and others there is a big push to get the president to act specifically before uh midterms.

[28:28] Toxic fart thank you hey I've seen you on the night shift streams uh when uh when I was born the doctor spanked me and the doctor cried no but a fun fact uh where I was born I actually at the time was the largest baby born at that hospital and I had a plaque made for me because I was a very large child.

[28:43] Uh Obex thank thank you again um as for have I had a meeting with David Grush as far as if I have relationships with individuals uh I'm not a kiss and teletype guy so if I was to have a relationship with Dave Grush uh with uh Representative Eric Burleson Timberchet any of these individuals working at the apex of this topic that would be for them to discuss not me but thank you very much.

[29:05] Okay don't oh go ahead Rob uh sorry I just wanted to jump in and say yeah I I can link this in the chat or I can give this to a moderator to link in the chat um but you can just look it up uh two Heldon plot to poison politicians with radium they conspired to kill two Republican officials with radium poisoning wow okay yeah so that's the 1992 uh Long Island Brook Brookhaven case I believe in the lore for that case as well Rob if I'm not mistaken uh into the lore Brookhaven deployed some sort of targeted direct energy to actually down the craft which doesn't seem like the best weapon right yeah which doesn't seem like the best environment of one of the most densely populated areas in the entire continental United States to down the craft.

[29:50] I used to do property management and property inspections in like the Northeast Seacoast area between New York, Long Island, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, uh Connecticut. And let me tell you, I have never been anywhere that is as densely populated as Long Island.

[30:06] There is no space for additional homes. Every home has like this much space between the next one. If you were to shoot something down and maybe not at that time, like in the mid 90s or early 90s, was it quite that densely populated in the area?

[30:20] But I doubt it, man. Like in in the region where that park is and I've looked at the maps, uh slight variation in where that thing crashed, you're killing like 300 people.

[30:31] Right. Yeah. You know, I I kind of read up on that case as well and try to get myself familiar. It seems like one of the very few witnesses to the case only recounted um an Air Force clad individual coming up to a family's door in the middle of the night and saying, hey, don't go to this park.

[30:45] And like you said, the park was closed for a period, but there's no evidence that any sort of of uh airborne body crashed in. Now let me finish these chats and then we are going to go to Kerm's number nine.

[30:57] Number four you mean? Yeah, number number four I'm I'm sorry. Okay. I I couldn't buy it yeah. No, that's no problem, Kerm. Thank you very much. This is a good question.

[31:06] You would like to see Rick Doty in the diner on Chris Ramsey set, but with who? I would love to see him on the diner with uh Terry Phillips out of OSI PJ.

[31:15] Be an interesting conversation. What do you guys say? I completely agree with that. Uh I also would like to see him in the diner with you know certain individuals that would well see no that's the problem is somebody like him that doesn't work with never mind.

[31:36] I think Terry Phillips is great. Put him with somebody who can actually get each other talking about things that they may have worked on together.

[31:44] Kerm I don't have a I don't really have a different answer. I I'd like to go to the diner with Dodie honestly can I can I answer myself yeah absolutely he's a great storyteller.

[31:56] He is oh I've got an answer put him in the diner with like whoever has survived Paul Benowitz's family. That'd be interesting. Yeah he in that interview he's actually pretty open about the the Benowitz case um but he doesn't seem to show much remorse for doing so he's he's very clear that you know yeah he was under orders and he takes his security oaths and his uh you know he takes what he needed to do for OSI very seriously.

[32:22] So you know he he's not necessarily upset with what he did. Kibbe Productions thank you very much we are all here for tangible evidence preferably video picks with context no one will take us seriously without so please I'm begging uh listen we're we're in we're kind of all in the same boat.

[32:37] I'm not the person who can uh release you know diagrams of of recovered craft or our own craft or photos or videos. That's not something I can personally do but I will continue to advocate for places like the NGA West to have some of their overhead imagery and massent of UFOs disclosed to the public.

[32:56] Specifically some really interesting airborne videos of Tic Tacs in the late 2010s that go from very high level to sea le very high up to sea level to back high level.

[33:06] But thank you very much. And Toxic fart again this is a great question. I believe there is no longer a legacy program that's fragmented now. Do you think so too?

[33:14] And is there a person slash group that knows everything or that or did that die with Dick Cheney? Um to answer the second part of the question with every time a a graybeard of so to speak dies out, I think we're at a catastrophic loss of of program knowledge.

[33:28] Most recently an individual like Donald Kerr and I do believe there is still a legacy program, but it is severely subject to brain drain in a tremendous shell of itself even more fragmented and lesser in power than when James Clapper was directing it.

[33:43] Do you guys have any thoughts or additions on this very good question? I 100% agree. I would say that most of these programs have likely devolved into data collection operations because they're not entirely quite sure what they're doing anymore.

[33:56] And they're trying to collect enough data to be able to piece together a lot of the missing knowledge from people who just aged out and you know the secrecy was too high for them to you know get worthy successors in for yeah I'm pet theory of mine is that at least a lot of the subject matter experts like the guys that know a lot of the stuff, the living libraries they're on the corporate side now.

[34:19] So you know trying to get a hold of them or trying to get them to compel or comply with a you know federal order is yeah it's a little bit different than them working for an agency.

[34:28] So yeah I mean you're you're spot on. What did Bobby Ray Inman do? He went do he went and joined the board of SAIC. What did Randall G. Walden do out of the Air Force Rapid Capabilities office he went and joined the aerospace corporation.

[34:39] So did Stephanie O'Sullivan after PD D and I uh it's it's a revolving door of high level FFRDC or corporate positions. You know what did Terry Phillips do? Yeah yeah Terry Phillips after being the entire Air Force SAP security director and executive director of OSIPJ oh now you're you're uh vice president for security at Northrop Grumman you're you're spot on that it's a revolving door.

[35:01] But you know there's a bigger quandary here in my opinion that because there's no centralized SAP repository, let alone UFO legacy program records repository. And furthermore there are instances in which legacy programs records are buried destroyed or burned uh real risk of loss of institutional knowledge as as kind of the next generation gets well I'll I'll say it's even worse than that because it's sort of a twofold problem.

[35:24] You have that problem but then you also run into the problem where now that it's so fragmented and there's no overarching authority that binds all of these program groups together and they're stovepiped from each other.

[35:35] A lot of people who have carved out their little fiefdoms within this you know this this hierarchy start to get the idea that well, if I don't have all of the other associated things this program used to have, well let's just build them in our program.

[35:50] So you end up with all these different programs that are trying to replicate each other's capabilities that are wasting if I can be frank shitloads of money um all trying to replicate capabilities that other programs already have uh but then you also have sort of a an evolving ecosystem of uh people that believe they have full control over an entire portfolio, which is sort of a dangerous thing because people wield that power in weird ways.

[36:17] Yeah. And furthermore we're in a world where there's not only competition with our peer adversaries in the Subrosa Cold War, shout out to Subrosa Rob Jones article uh but the the legacy program, as you're all thinking of, is also in competition with you know the Northrop Grummins and Lockheed Martin who decided to go do their own thing um specifically around 2004 2005 with the global war on terror loosely accountable to their government authority.

[36:42] You know this is where a lot of those stories of of blue on blue kinetic strikes originate from and private retrieval teams. Um so so truly as as in my assessment as far as I understand the legacy program still exists under the National Security Council, but it is a pitiful shell of itself.

[36:58] Yeah. Okay Addison Farthy 9710 thank you very much uh based on all the evidence you've seen if you wanted the best chance of working on UFO related technologies or vehicles which company would you work for that would probably be Northrop Grumman but good luck getting in.

[37:14] Yeah they don't you don't go work for them they come find you they they know where to find you but that that is that is a good question. And maybe you could go to one of the FFRDCs uh maybe you could go to the MITR corporation and then um join as a PSO program security officer and try and work your way up and ask, you know, if you join MITRE where the lollipop manufacturers within MITRE reside.

[37:36] And that would be under their hidden special securities office. I'm sure you get a couple of eyebrow raises the sec you'd be like hey do you know about the lollipop division?

[37:45] Yeah first week in MITRE you know like I'm starting off strong. Hey fellas David Grush mentioned on his interview with Dr. Phil the large UFO that cannot be moved is on the West Coast care to comment and thank you very much.

[37:57] Uh I didn't hear him say the the West Coast uh if I'm remembering correctly and I if I if I'm according to my recollection on Dr. Phil Dave Grush said that one of the problems with investigating the UFO or basically one of the problems or one of the advantages of investigating the legacy programs is that assets can be moved, uh destroyed if Representative Burleson's making a a site visit or so forth but there are assets that there's logistical challenges uh for moving around.

[38:28] And we'll we'll get actually get to that later because there is a question in the the QA that kind of directly touches on that. But thank you very much.

[38:34] We're we're almost through these guys people are just being pretty awesome today. Inferno Bavaria thank you so much my friend uh thank you very much Jonathan93 Mago what are your thoughts on Steven Spielberg's disclosure day we talked about this in an episode prior it was all right i'm I'm ready to talk about it now that I've seen it yeah go ahead I walked I I turned it off halfway through um I I did eventually watch the rest of it but it was an awful film he's lost his fastball um it was very clearly edited by committee in my opinion because I don't think that if Spielberg had sat down and watched this he would have allowed it to go out as it was uh if he did he's really lost a few steps and but either way it's just bad.

[39:19] Uh halfway through the movie there's a panic sequence in which everyone in the United States is suddenly panicking and purchasing everything on the shelves of the store like they just announced that it's COVID two when nothing has happened.

[39:32] There's been no public announcement whatsoever. No reason is ever given within the entire movie for why they're scared and running and then the rest of the film feels like a if I'm honest a fucking car commercial actually without a car that's my take on the whole movie you know I I don't disagree with you Rob I I think what's furthermore uh very funny in the the Area 52 Rick Doty interview uh Rick Doty tries to say that there's a hidden age of disclosure feature that has about 15 to 20 more minutes of footage and that uh people he knows in his sources were flown to a place in uh aerospace valley in southern california to go watch the secret age of disclosure extended cut.

[40:14] What different ending because it's like I mean what other parts of the script well no no no honestly he he maybe he did because I'm pretty sure that there's about 15 minutes worth of footage that you need to insert right after they talk to the alien and then after that it explains all the parts that you know tell you why the bad guys just give up and no longer care.

[40:39] Oh yeah the way though for some reason they just give up in the end of the movie they're like oh well I guess we lost guys yeah shucks you know I I thought I thought it was just all right it's it's something I saw I I don't necessarily care to to watch again I'm I'm more excited about the Jerry Brockheimer film uh in development maybe a couple years down the line personally I'm I'm just kind of a film nerd I got a lot of respect for Steven Spielberg and it was infuriating to watch.

[41:11] Yeah well especially when you know that like he made the gem that is close encounters of the third coming which is right one of the top 10 movies of all time like we're not talking UFO movies like we're talking top in my opinion top 10 movie of all time is CE3.

[41:25] And then this one like I will say I think the expectation like the expectations were super high for this especially now with like disclosure trending and it's this whole political movement.

[41:36] So yeah but like just seeing seeing them like not just fumble the ball on like the 50 yard line but they run the ball backwards I'm like what are you what are you doing?

[41:45] What are you doing? Yeah yeah Kerm Kerm that's a great take about close encounters because even in just the scene by scene progression of that movie, you know, you have single shots that last four seconds where you're seeing crates with TRW and the Lockheed Corporation on them.

[42:00] There's so much to chew on in that movie. I mean even outside of the characters based on uh Jacques Villet, Jay Allen Heinek, Close Encounters is is, is a fantastic film.

[42:09] Yeah. And I will say like I mean there was some stuff in Disclosure Day that's like honestly it was kind of like fan service to the UFO community is kind of the way I'd say it.

[42:17] Like to your point like to what you kind of say previously like CE3, it covers a lot of like themes that makes it feel like poignant like it's meaningful.

[42:26] It's relevant to the story. I felt like there's one point in Disclosure day where they're like oh yeah is is that because he's an experiencer like they just flippantly say that.

[42:34] And like if you weren't a UFO person that like understands what experiencer is understands that's like someone that has like repeated encounters and whatnot, you would just like not understand what that word is.

[42:44] It's just like they treat kind of like to Rob's point like they're just freaking out over seemingly nothing. It's like they just flippantly say the word and they kind of expect the audience which is like the rest of the country to know what that word is.

[42:54] Now granted I mean a lot of people know about UFOs now, but I don't think everyone in the country knows what experiencer is. So I mean I I know some people in my family that like when they watched it they were like Jack so what's an experiencer?

[43:05] Like what what is that? So yeah. Yeah I mean something this is really small but something that really got under my skin and this is just a lack of care in my opinion is towards the end where so much footage is being showed, you know, a tape of the Kexburg retrieval is shown.

[43:20] Uh there's enough care to make references to Dr. Walker Eric Walker but the Kecksburg craft uh as depicted is a flying saucer. Anybody vaguely familiar with the Kecksburg craft knows that this craft was a 12 foot acorn shaped vehicle it's it's the case as as you guys know it's in your top five favorites both of you is so infamous especially the craft morphology that was a a little nitpick and I also think there were uh army chemical corps folks with mop gear on on site there that that which it should have been Air Force personnel that I also didn't like that.

[43:50] Yeah let's let's go to this one uh even though I would like like an hour and a half Rob Jones review of age of disclosure uh seeing how fired up you get uh cancel anime 1507 thank you look into Jacques Villet's research into simulated UFO waves using man made technology that would it would explain why we see so many triangular ARVs being flown at low altitude as if they are trying to be seen.

[44:14] Uh in in my own personal assessment I I I'm quite confident that the triangular craft that are of of human origin are are very real physical craft. But but you know respect everything about Jacques Villet's work.

[44:29] Yeah I mean and to Jacques's credit like he also very much talks about plenty of man made crafts being tests or being you know made like for example he's got a research piece that I could dig up for you about um air like uh lighter than air aerostats with microwave weapons being tested over the skies of Great Britain.

[44:50] The hypothesis there is that these craft were being utilized as uh test platforms for microwave weapons for the um the calibration of microwave weapons. And what they would do is they would go out and calibrate to the millimeter level like how how tightly these beam weapons were being fired at stalks of wheat making crop circles.

[45:12] Those were calibration tests. It's an interesting piece which you should definitely look up. But um you know he's not the Jacques has that research but he's also not against the idea of man made craft either.

[45:26] So right okay this is a uh inferno Bavaria thank you again greetings from Germany hello Gutentag when will we see you at JRE talking MMA and aliens? Uh if I'm ever asked I will go there in a heartbeat uh I I would love that but you know I think Joe and I would would speak quite a bit about uh MMA specifically but you know if if that ever happens I would I would go in a heartbeat.

[45:51] Uh Mantis encounters thank you very much. I know this isn't your focus but I'm curious if any of your trusted sources have ever talked about direct cooperation between human factions and any specific description of NHI beans.

[46:02] This might be something interesting us for us to talk about for like a minute or two because this was just touched upon in the Matthew Brown interview. Uh the subject of like agreements, interactions with with non humans at scale that's outside of my purview and I specifically don't have any direct information on that.

[46:18] And um that topic kind of comes up in the next video I'm working on but but you know I I'm very clear that that's outside of my wheelhouse and I don't have a position because I don't have an educated opinion.

[46:27] Uh something that Matthew Brown said on Jesse Michaels that I I I would probably see as as valid. He states that the whole story of agreements um between humans and NHI it's sort of an oral tradition now within the legacy program that's passed down.

[46:43] So the actual origin and impetus for such agreements might be lost due to just generational games of of oral testimony and and and telephone I I found that really interesting what he said yeah that wouldn't shock me at all um yeah but as far as descriptions of NHI beans I I of course am I supremely confident that the the classic gray morphology is not only indeed real but um that the legacy program is in in in possession of of such bodies okay we'll we'll get through these these these we are just getting bombarded with super chats it's okay this is great lucky uh folks want to talk that's cool rich oko tron I hope I'm saying that right I was so keen for that movie but it looked like an action film in the previews uh you're talking about age of disclosure yeah I think Rob you have a point with just sort of the the car chase commercial yeah Inferno Bavaria again thank you again from Germany do you guys think it's a little weird uh that the found an alive whistleblower Matthew Sullivan was talking to Lou right before what he was planning to do I I don't find uh any anything weird about that I what I find weird is what individuals like uh Eric Burleson and Dave Crush has said that what's weird is that uh Matthew Quake Sullivan um his passing occurred shortly before he was supposed to deliver protected disclosures on the topic uh two congressional two congressional bodies not necessarily because of his interaction with a singular person.

[48:07] Yeah right to clarify the timeline this was like twenty twenty three twenty twenty four twenty twenty four okay last one cancel anime again thank you very much uh it's the point that they are real and physical craft being used for psychological warfare operations okay this was about the the Jacques Villet question I think this yeah dovetails into the whole conversation um yeah no I completely agree with you that it's it's entirely possible that that's taking place.

[48:31] Um I just mean to say that you know some of them are are likely you know alien derived vehicles or you know non non anthropogenic technology derived uh technical vehicles I'll put it that way.

[48:43] But thank you very much. Okay, we're gonna go to Kerms number four favorite UFO crash retrieval case. All right number four it's a little bit controversial because I think a lot of people in the UFO community this one is like the biggest fraud I'd say and and the F word I don't say so flippantly but it's it's Aztec and it's mostly because of course of the doodle bug machine and the the infamous thing.

[49:06] However, what I will say is saving grace is that Leonard Stringfield did collect affidavits from people saying that they were on a reverse engineering effort associated with this Aztec recovery.

[49:15] And and I and I wanted to ask because I like completely blanked in my notes but one of the individuals that was associated with the doodle bug it turned out he was like an expert on like radar arrays and he worked actually for the Navy.

[49:28] So it was very possible that he was an actual military weapons genius and he may have worked on this project. Although the doodle bug as they proved it in court in Denver uh in the 1950s turns out wasn't really a a real machine.

[49:42] Um so that's my number four one just because that one's like all over the place and it's like it was technically proven in court but there's a lot more with it that like a court verdict does not determine science.

[49:54] A court verdict does not determine science well just on the doodle bug yes but also so Leo Gabauer and Silas Newton were the perpetuators of the doodle bug and famously labeled con men.

[50:05] The court case actually occurred in Denver and William Steinman went to Denver and pulled the court records of those whole proceedings and how this sort of court case went down.

[50:14] It was shown within these court documents that the doodle bug used during court to show its efficacy was not the doodle bug it was a different device. And the actual doodle bug from Silas Newton and Leo Jabauer traced back to to Navy scientists during World War II that were developing devices for anti submarine uh warfare detection.

[50:32] So there's a very very interesting uh sort of line of history in RD for that actual device. And even the chief witness uh against Silas Newton and Leo Jabauer, I can't remember the gentleman's name, he purchased the actual doodle bug from Silas Newton and Leo Jabauer who actually found oil deposits on his property using the device.

[50:50] Furthermore, that chief witness against them was encouraged to speak out against Leo Jabauer and Silas Newton from a journalist who was really mad at Frank Sully for publishing Behind the Flying Saucers because he didn't get an interview with Silas Newton.

[51:04] Got it. Yeah I so this one this one was one going in on my notes which I know you guys probably had a lot of addendums to so I wanted to make a mention of it.

[51:12] Um yeah yeah it was on my list but I I mostly have notes to tee up Gurb because I know how much he knows about this because I recently rewatched your video on it.

[51:24] It's one of my favorites uh this is actually my number two. Yeah I mean I spent uh behind the shoulder the the UFO crash at Aztec by William Steinman I spent $300 so I could get the physical copy of of this book.

[51:35] Yeah I love the case that much. In my opinion in my assessment Aztec was a very real case and there's so much drama around it. To me and all the drama around it just speaks to a massive disinformation campaign that took place in order to try and cover it up.

[51:52] Uh and that's part of why I love it so much. There's also so much incredible testimony witness testimony that was uh that was sort of taken by Scott and Suzanne Ramsey and their book on Aztec.

[52:04] Uh you know there were a ton of eyewitnesses to this case uh numerous from individuals uh stating they saw the flying saucer basically on its downward descent crashing into cliff faces uh to individuals who who stated they stood on the craft and very corroborating statements around Aztec it's a fascinating case.

[52:23] What's also interesting to me uh is you know according to the Aztec lore the the craft was kind of pulled apart like it had interlocking components uh and you know this was 99.9 feet in diameter but was apparently so light somebody standing on one of the raised edges could kind of tilt down the craft.

[52:39] Uh but that interlocking disassembly dovetails perfectly with when Bob Eschler spoke to uh Sumner Shapiro, former uh director of naval intelligence and Navy Admiral, who said he not only knew of UFO craft retrieval reverse engineering programs, but had studied these recovered UFOs up close and that some of them had to be assembled and disassembled in very specific ways so that they could function and that different parts of these larger craft assemblies would be shifter shipped around the country to different national laboratories.

[53:06] There's also a ton of dovetailing into Vannevar Bush which also with which also even more dovetails into his World War II pursuits of anti submarine warfare suites and sort of the impetus for that doodle bug type device.

[53:20] Oh also I'm gonna say this I hate that I'm gonna say this but you know who was also working on anti submarine warfare? Townsend Brown. Oh yeah you're teeing up you're teeing up Jesse to talk about yeah Townsend Brown.

[53:34] But yeah no he was definitely working on the on the same sort of set of problems I don't know if they were working in similar la similar laboratories because multiple laboratories were working on those problems during World War II.

[53:44] Um but yeah um now just to break this this this crash down for everybody who's not familiar with it this happened in March 25th of 1948. This was like very very shortly after Roswell um I want to say it was like seven months something like that.

[54:04] I I can't think of the exact date on Roswell off the top of my head I know it was into the year in 47. But so this rancher supportedly sees a silver disc that's wobbling uh in what he says like looked like apparent distress.

[54:17] Allegedly scrapes a cliff, throws off sparks and then settles on a mesa. There's like ranchers, oil workers and a bunch of other people like Gurb said that reached it before the military did um no obvious seams, rivets or controls, had a teeny tiny damaged opening or porthole that was supposedly visible.

[54:37] And when witnesses manipulated the opening uh they gained access to the interior uh where they could see about 14 to 16 small humanoid occupants who were all dead um and then the military arrived and isolated everybody and removed the crafted bodies um it's uh it's not that there's a report on that this all comes from an investigation from this uh this couple named Scott and Suzanne Ramsey um and there's a website that I can link in the chat for uh the research on that it's extremely interesting.

[55:08] So yeah there's there's three principal investigators for the Aztec case one being Scott and Suzanne Ramsey, two being Frank Scully and three being William Steinman, all of whom have produced incredible volumes on on this case.

[55:20] And of course in in sort of the lore according to uh Steinman, Vannevar Bush was one of the chief officials um on uh on the on site scientific recovery team for this craft uh this of course comports very strongly with my own work furthermore uh you know it in in in public perception it was a uh a radar site maybe a triangulation of radar sites over New Mexico or Nevada that downed this craft um according to Scott and Suzanne Ramsey and they got this information from somebody else who uh actually I've talked about before on the channel hopefully I can get them to speak publicly sometime.

[55:51] This was I think called the 76th uh AC and Welvedo radar site and these really high powered triangulated radar sites were were thought to maybe be what down the craft.

[56:01] Um Scott and Suzanne Ramsey talked to eyewitnesses who served in the Air Force at the time who were stationed at these radar sites who stated that you know birds or ducks would fly in front of these massive radar arrays and would land on the ground half cooked.

[56:14] The sort of experimental microwave technology within those uh arrays at the time were so destructive um that that might have been what messed with the craft and uh yeah I love Aztec whether whether or not you believe Aztec I I love that you brought up brought up that case because it it's such a such a good case.

[56:34] Well I think I mean it the evidence I I think it shows that it happened and kind of to Rob's comment like yes the the court case was sensationalized especially like as it happened and then I also like there was there was a specific skeptic debunker.

[56:50] I forget his name uh but he wrote against like this all being fake like he was one of these people that was like a big advocate of like no this isn't real and like trying to prove it with this court case.

[57:01] But I mean there was some dirty laundry about that person. Also I there's just there's just a lot more with this that it's like you can't you can't just like isolate the the court case of what happened and say like oh yeah like a court case a court verdict is you know it's a it's an official ruling that the case didn't happen.

[57:18] No no no um so yeah it it happened but Leo Jabauer and Silas Newton uh really didn't have to pay uh anything out of the lawsuit they didn't receive jail time the court case kind of went away also one of the witnesses who spoke out against them or was encouraged to speak out about against them I believe his name was Dr.

[57:36] Carl Holland Harland actually worked on a company with Leo Jabauer uh after that or shortly before called Geophysical Services Inc., which also specialized in using technologies to find oil deposits.

[57:48] Uh in in uh will in uh William Steinman's view, Harland Holland, I can't quite remember his name at the time, was actually in sort of the UFO steering group at the time the Majestic 12 and uh because he was one of the sources of the Mr.

[58:00] G's that told Silas Newton Leo Jabauer about this crash case, uh that was sort of his punishment hey you got to testify against these guys. That's more of conjecture from Steinman.

[58:08] One of the things that's interesting as well is you know somehow I guess Silas Newton came in possession of some craft materials and that uh that individual the the adversary reporter that told the chief witness to testify against the two gentlemen in court uh switched out those materials for a fake in fabrication so he could flaunce around and talk about uh what scammer Silas Newton was.

[58:28] So very interesting case. Also the FBI started a very large dossier around him around the time of nineteen forty seven nineteen forty eight Silas Newton. Why would they why would they ever feel the need to open up a file on him?

[58:41] So interesting okay but we'll we'll go on Rob what's your number four okay my number four I only had three prepared that's it okay um all right so there there's a couple that I had listed here that I wanted to go through.

[59:03] Uh specifically I had Keksburg down as one of my favorites um I had South Haven Park Long Island which I had already brought up and then there's another one that I wanted to bring up called Howden Moor uh if nobody's ever heard of that.

[59:16] That's a Welsh case. Um you found like the most niche crash retrievals go on nice I try I try um so you know we had a little bit of time to prepare for this so uh howden moor is it's hard to explain a lot of people don't think that this one happened um I think it may possibly have happened um but you know the way I would describe it is in March 1997 witnesses near Brit bitten uh Britain's peak district watched a strangely illuminated aircraft fly low towards the Moors.

[59:48] Moors are like uh like swamp ish, um, if I'm not mistaken. Uh they reported a flash smoke and a tremendous explosion. Almost 200 police, military and mountain rescue personnel showed up and searched throughout the night, but found no aircraft, reportedly, no debris and no casualties.

[1:00:05] Now the claim here is that, you know, according to some, that the craft material was isolated, sequestered, and taken away by those that found it within the military, and everyone else was led on a wild goose chase or what have you.

[1:00:18] Um I don't know if that's the case or not, but it is an extremely interesting case. There's a lot of people that very genuinely reported what appeared to be an aircraft in distress at the time.

[1:00:30] And then there was a parliamentary investigation that later confirmed confirmed that the South Yorkshire police did receive reports of low flying aircraft that were thought to have crashed. And but in those reports the investigators stated that they claimed to find no trace of it.

[1:00:45] There were atmospheric and sonic events that were instrumentally recorded. The times were at 9 52 and 1006 p.m local time uh Ministry of Defense did say it had no record of RAF or NATO aircraft generating them um but these these were reported.

[1:01:01] And there was military flying scheduled in the region but uh deconfliction's been done and supposedly this was not the military aircraft. There's no physical evidence of a crash that was found.

[1:01:12] And there was a temporary restricted flight area that was set up at the time. But aside from that, there's very little to go on from my understanding. So don't know what caused those events, don't know what it was, but it's a it's a pretty interesting one.

[1:01:27] I know that the the British viewers will probably know a lot more about this than me. I only found about it I found out about it this week um but it's a really cool case and one that I wanted to bring up for you know other people to look at as well.

[1:01:39] That's an awesome deep cut Rob you know England has a a bit of a history with with crash cases you know I'm also thinking about 1980 boss com down uh so you know for English viewers maybe we set Xander on Xander Jones on the case to to investigate a little bit of that crash retrieval.

[1:01:54] That also what you described reminds me closely of the 1978 Bolivia supposed crash retrieval event that the Moondust initiative was involved in in which a large local populace heard an enormous explosion and saw an aircraft in distress prior and then kind of an on site recovery team was sent.

[1:02:11] You guys keep talking about the for one second I'll be right back. It shouldn't be it shouldn't be more than 30 seconds. I'll be right back. Okay. Yeah absolutely I just want to take this opportunity to mention that um you know regarding British or or English cases um whatever the right term is there I apologize to those in the United Kingdom I believe British I I don't know man whatever regarding cases in that area in Europe that speaks English um we have an episode coming up on reality check this coming week uh featuring um British police officer uh special or inspector Roy Teague uh who talks a lot about his investigations into UFO sightings and his work with police officers in normalizing the reporting of such weird incidents uh because apparently such reporting is discouraged uh so definitely check that out next week coming out Tuesday September first that's gonna be really cool looking forward to checking that out should be pretty cool Roy's a cool guy we got an opportunity to talk uh got the chance to read his book which was very interesting um that sounds a lot like yeah well that sounds a lot like um I because I know Keith Taylor is another kind of like law enforcement figure in this topic and I know he's like written I believe I think he wrote a book about like the law enforcement approach to dealing with like UAP cases, like calls response, things like that.

[1:03:37] So I would say in Roy's case, Roy in in the UK there's a huge number of cases like this like a very, very huge number and Roy has gone out and talked to a lot of police officers uh in the line of duty or outside of the line of duty but who have seen these things in the line of duty and and you know gotten testimony from these guys.

[1:03:58] It it apparently is an extremely frequent thing uh over there in the UK. And it's also frequent that like the police is unable to like verify or obtain any sort of like physical evidence of the event.

[1:04:10] Got it. Absolutely Kerm number three curm oh okay we're going straight into it okay all right number three because I reserve my one and two rankings for what I would say are the OGs.

[1:04:23] So these these have uh these have thrones number three just right outside at the prince if you will is Koyame my favorite UFO crash retrieval story so for the viewers basically here's this and my two good friends can fill in the gaps so uh 1974 uh there was a collision there was like two craft that collided over the airspace in Texas and New Mexico one of these craft was a private plane the other was an unknown object the unknown object and the plane collide plane disintegrates dies the other plane the craft veers off into the Mexican desert and crashes now presumably the Mexican police they are sent or they get sent to go investigate it and they don't come back they don't come back.

[1:05:11] Now the US at some point in the story they find out or they get wind of this crash recovery or this uh this crash so they send a team out there they send a team out with hazmat suits because I think they found out about the Mexican police dying on the scene and when they show up yeah they see the Mexican police just dead on the ground along with presumably the dead pilots of this craft.

[1:05:34] So the reason why it's an interest why it's a personal favorite of mine is not so much in the story of like you know colliding with the private airplane, um, the Mexican police turning up dead.

[1:05:45] It's actually in where they took the vehicles the the craft the the objects the material itself because unlike what you hear a lot with uh UFO crash retrievals of the craft being taken to Area 51 or right Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, instead the Koyame material was taken to the uh Martin Marietta facility in Georgia.

[1:06:08] And that facility still operates today as like part of Lockheed Martin. And I also believe and Gurb correct me if I'm wrong I think the material was then later transferred to Wright Patterson from the uh Georgia facility.

[1:06:21] Um and I also know you've done an excellent breakdown of this specific case as well and I love that video. Yeah I I I was halfway through watching it before we we jumped here on the StreamYard call.

[1:06:31] But yeah I find this cat case fascinating just kind of for all like the little nuggets of kind of lore info in there. But uh what do you guys think about that one?

[1:06:40] Well uh I love it personally uh I do love Gurb's video on that one and it definitely would have made my top five if I had to add two more to my list of three um specifically because of something that someone in the chat mentioned uh cancel anime said in the chat uh the exact same thing that I was thinking which is that uh you know it's also entirely possible that the Americans arriving killed the the Mexicans.

[1:07:06] Yeah to make sure that there were no witnesses. Yeah. So um that's you know that's something that I constantly think about with with cases like these when you hear about oh well this group of people died accord to what?

[1:07:21] Sure. And somehow the other group of people that came and took it were okay. All right. Yeah so I see what you did. According to the the story when when the craft impacted either the private plane or the ground uh there was you know uh some sort of damage that occurred to the exterior of the craft and there was some sort of dangerous, you know, whether it be fuel, fluid, uh gas, whatever leakage from the craft in the on site Mexican team that was just sent up to study a a downed aircraft at the time uh died due to containment.

[1:07:53] You know, the the craft was even loaded up onto a Mexican low boy style truck at the time and the retrieval crew even started to drive away where at where they shortly succumbed to whatever this airborne toxin was.

[1:08:05] But I, you know, with what you said. Yeah and I I personally probably think it's more likely that the American team decided to take out those assets. Yes. However in stuff like the interplanetary phenomenon unit documents, you know, can't say these are valid or not still just an interesting piece of lore to the subject perhaps they're passage material, perhaps they're real, perhaps they're fabrications.

[1:08:25] Talk about a crash retrieval in I think 1947 that uh personnel from Sandia were sent out to investigate and two to four technicians from Sandia were killed from some sort of airborne contaminant from uh the retrieval.

[1:08:39] So that that is an interesting parallel with Koyame the whole case rests upon the legitimacy of the DNA report the supposed report that talks about the craft what I find so interesting that Deneb report breaks down how in my view a UFO craft retrieval would work so well with rapid reaction units.

[1:08:57] You know overhead uh imagery intelligence collection task systems report to the Central Intelligence Agency that there's been some downed anomalous aircraft. CIA starts to mobilize rapid reaction teams who use on site on an airbase, I think in in Texas, if I'm remembering correctly their helicopters.

[1:09:13] So then that rapid reaction team uses like level five mop gear to to prepare for the possible contaminant there and then ship in and retrieve the craft. It's such a great case it's so interesting.

[1:09:25] So for those that aren't aware mop gear is mission oriented protective posture it's the biological radiological chemical protective gear that everyone's required to wear in order to respond to dangerous incidents.

[1:09:38] So you guys will like this there's a uh I think he's a politician in in Mexico the first name of the gentleman is Jesus in 2024 I believe it was he went on Twitter or some other thing and made a post about the Koyame case and said that he had pictures or videos of the case I immediately messaged the guy 15 times.

[1:10:01] Let's let's talk about Koyame. Let's discuss this. He never responded. About four days ago he finally responded. No way. But what he said is thank you for being a believer.

[1:10:12] So I I messaged him back about five times. It's dude you said this let's talk about Koyame. Do you have pictures? Do you have videos? What do you have?

[1:10:19] What do you know about the case? So I'm still waiting to hear back from him. But you know hopefully if if that man's not not LARPing and has some interesting information to share, we can expand on Koyame.

[1:10:28] Yeah. And then also my rank of in terms of it being my top five it's dependent on this it can either go up the stock can go up stock can go down.

[1:10:36] Right. Interesting. I do remember you mentioning that. Yeah yeah yeah yeah like there was like this guy yeah yeah dang that's so crazy he messaged you four days ago that's yeah but it's so frustrating synchronicity because all the messages I sent were hey can we please talk about this?

[1:10:51] Can we please talk about this? You stated this can we please talk about this? And he just said thanks for being a believer in what the Kayame case or the subject of UFOs in general?

[1:11:00] Thanks for being Patriot sir. Kerm what is your number two um okay are we just sharing mine okay so at this point we're now down to the last two so I feel like I can just go ahead and say both of them or we can we can just talk about them separately.

[1:11:16] These are one at a one at a time because we're gonna have Rob come up with some on the fly. These are S tier cases number two don't come after me Roswell this is how it all started summer 47 the Roswell Daily Record the story they put out that they recovered a flying disc, the whole retraction it's like it's 90 it it a lot of the UFO lore I mean it results from this one particular case.

[1:11:43] Any of my friends and family it's like oh yeah oh you're into UFOs what do you think about Roswell? Yeah and then I have to tell them about like the whole friggin' story and like oh yeah well they put out this retraction and then 90 days later then they signed the National Security Act which then formed uh the CIA and then also spun out the Air Force from the Army Air Corps because that's what it was at the time.

[1:12:03] Whatever. Nerdy nuance no one really cares. They want to see we all care here Kerm everybody here cares. I know I know I know we do I know this is a safe space for my kind of autism but for my friends and family at home it's like you know end of the day it's like okay well what do you what do you actually think of of Roswell?

[1:12:20] And here's another kind of point on this as well like there at least from my from my perspective there's now at least three different stories of like what actually happened at Roswell there is a story of like it's just one crash and one craft and that's what happened and it's like a mantai ray disc.

[1:12:36] There's a couple other accounts where it's like there were actually two different crashes in Roswell and actually like it wasn't in Roswell's in Sonora which is like a little bit far out technical nuance.

[1:12:47] Then there's another account in there's a completely other account as well from the none other than the legend Annie Jacobson where she had Edward Teller I think that was her source on this say to Al O'Donnell right right my bad not not the guy that allegedly hired Bob Lazar it was the guy that armed the bombs for the Manhattan Project Al O'Donnell so Al O'Donnell tells Annie Jacobson on his deathbed that actually what crashed at Roswell was Nazi recovered tech that the Soviets captured that they were experimenting with these German people or like their POWs and then they flew the craft over New Mexico over our only nuclear weapons site basically to mess with us.

[1:13:25] Basically because and I you know I've I've listened to a lot of what Annie talks about particularly with this you know particular story and like her work. It was only like eight pages in her book, but like I swear every single podcast she gets asked about it.

[1:13:39] And I don't know where I kind of land with it is I don't not annoy Al I don't think Al O'Donnell said what actually happened. This kind of my it's kind of my 300 perspective but I'm gonna stop talking because I know there's a lot here with this so I'm gonna open up the floor now.

[1:14:01] So Al O'Donnell did say what actually happened to George Knapp in the 90s. Al O'Donnell was former director of special projects out at EG and G. After a series of pursuits by George Knapp George Knapp met with Al O'Donnell and after forming a relationship over several months or years Al O'Donnell said hey we recovered something in the desert was of non human origin.

[1:14:20] Beans were shipped to X, Y, and Z. Custody was given at you know after a set number of years in 1954 to Groom Lake facilities. So Al O'Donnell did tell that to George Knapp and Al O'Donnell and Dick D'Amato were supposed to meet with Al O'Donnell and one of the E's or G's in E G and G joined the meeting and that's when Al O'Donnell clammed up never spoke again.

[1:14:42] But uh you know I I think George Knapp probably has more material to release on this at some point. But yeah the Annie Jacobson story that the Roswell craft was filled with uh mangled children from Nazi scientists that Stalin took at the end of World War II is far more obscene to believe to me than a a non human technical craft that crashed.

[1:15:02] But but per Annie and I'm I'm watching the chat as well but per Annie it's her impression that Al lied to George that actually George no no no actually Al disinformed George and that Annie was given the correct story.

[1:15:14] So who so who was given the actual story? I personally believe George Knapp and due to a a a wealth of other individuals who who speak about the Roswell case.

[1:15:25] I mean Roswell even Roswell we've talked about Kexburg has significantly more witnesses to the overall story and the experience of the Roswell kind of pursuit and timeline over anyone.

[1:15:37] There's so many affidavits, you know, individuals like I think he was a general or maybe a colonel at the time Dubois there's Walter Hott of the 509th Bombardier group or yeah Bombardier group there's so many individuals Jesse Marcel Sr.

[1:15:50] Jesse Marcel Jr. who have all talked of a cohesive story regarding um the Roswell case and you know furthermore some individuals that I really like you know former New Mexico State rep Jay Andrew Kissner shout out to him and how his disclosures on Roswell led in 1995 to Stephen Schiff launching a GAO investigation into Roswell which the GAO found that the Air Force said oh we're sorry we destroyed all of our records 40 years earlier in 1990 1995.

[1:16:17] So 40 years before that and furthermore that led to the Roswell report case close that the Air Force published where they incorrectly dated crash test dummies and Project Mogul balloons.

[1:16:27] You know what's funny about that report too you know who uh who basically oversaw the writing and approval for that report that was the SAF AAZ the SAP co for the Air Force former SAF AAZ directors like William E.

[1:16:39] McClure have been straight up legacy people. So that's almost hilarious that SAF AAZ the Air Force's own SAPCO is the one who administers this report which is a terrible failed debunk almost comical and and just to point out to the viewers this is why you do the historical research so that you understand the the the lineage of these programs and how these offices have evolved over the many years.

[1:17:01] Understand that the power has traveled in a semi linear manner in many of these cases. When you look at you know who was in charge back in Roswell versus you know that same position essentially being the location of like the rapid capabilities office and other things.

[1:17:17] Yep. It's a Roswell somebody said it in the chat Roswell will will never go away. No and and and there's still so much so much use in talking about Roswell like Rob you just said even even tracing the lineage and custody of the crafter personnel there's so much alpha in in discussing stuff like that.

[1:17:35] Rob what's your number two because I I think it probably everybody here would would say Roswell is I think you said Aztec was two if I'm not mistaken. Yeah Aztec was my number two or my number one I'm sorry.

[1:17:49] No Kexburg was one I thought oh yeah yeah yeah sorry sorry Kexburg was number one Aztec was number two and then it had howden and winter uh and then Haven Park so or South Haven Park so I I do have you know one that we could talk about um which has been asked in the in the chat by a super chat as well recently we could talk about like the Penturk incident incident um if you guys have seen it looks like the way it's written looks like Pentritch but it's Penturk is how it's uh how it's pronounced um it's I don't know how I feel about this one.

[1:18:25] This is another one where I do question whether or not it's real um you know so uh assuming it happened how it's described, um the what happened is the British military appears to have known something was coming.

[1:18:40] Um in the days before February 26th of 2016, uh witnesses reported a surveillance type aircraft that were circling near Penturk, Wales, which is like in the southwestern portion of the United Kingdom um around like 2 a.m uh this woman by the name of Kaz Clark and a neighbor, I think it's a woman or a man I can't remember uh Kaz Clark and a neighbor reportedly saw an enormous pyramid shaped object descend over fields near Garth Mountain, discharge fiery electrical fingers towards the ground and released several smaller objects, including red and green craft that separated in opposite directions.

[1:19:17] Military helicopters and fixed wing aircraft then converged on the area apparently pursuing the smaller objects two powerful explosions followed and one object was believed to have come down in Smylog Wood near oh God I cannot read these Welsh names man.

[1:19:32] That's okay, Ron You're doing great Lantrocent I'm just gonna say it that way. Um so there was an exercise near the area called uh Operation or Exercise Chameleon um which had authorized up to seven unlit helicopters in the area at the time um and fixed wing aircraft uh which were you know providing oversight in the area um I I don't know whether or not I truly believe

[1:20:00] A lot of this because there there's never been any evidence that's come out that's documented. There's never been like a freedom of information request or a release document from the UK government that sort of supports this, aside from the fact that that exercise exists in the area.

[1:20:15] Most of this case hinges on the testimony of Kaz Clark and a few other people who did report these things in the area. And it it really hinges heavily on the one person's testimony for what they saw that night.

[1:20:31] There's not a whole lot else that I've seen that leaves me compelled to follow it more deeply than that.

[1:20:38] But, you know, allegedly there was like seismographic detection that has not actually been traced back to a primary document or record that I can tell.

[1:20:50] And then there was something else. It was um I can't remember what it was.

[1:20:57] Supposedly there was like damage, uh damage to like trees in Smilog Wood, uh, but there was no forensic forensic examination of that damage whatsoever. Whereas that happened in so many other cases, people were able to get samples.

[1:21:09] So, you know, everything leads me to believe that in every opportunity that there was to gather data on this case, it's been conveniently avoided by those that were closest to it, um, which is sort of telling to me.

[1:21:21] Uh, but just wanted to cover that one, I guess, like, you know, because it was asked for. I did have notes on it when we were talking about crash retrieval, but it it wasn't gonna crack my top five.

[1:21:30] So, yeah, I I think and and this is a shout out here if if you guys go on YouTube and search the channel Mac Mave Studios, this gentleman I use a lot of his of his material for B roll because he's awesome, but he uses Unreal Engine to remake specific crash retrievals.

[1:21:45] And so if if you want a good visual representation of this case or or others, please go look at Mac Mave Studios. Awesome work, it's it's really great stuff.

[1:21:53] Oh, I know him from Discord. That guy rocks. Yeah. So now we get to number one, and we're gonna go with Kerm. Your crown jewel crash retrieval case. Well, you already know my other four.

[1:22:07] So I feel like people in the audience might know what my number one is. Number one's magenta. Nice. Oh, I've I don't know why I wouldn't have guessed that.

[1:22:19] That has so many ties to to you. And uh yeah, of course. That makes sense for you. Go on, Kern. Tell us. Okay. Um, my first time hearing about this crash was from the man himself, David Grush, uh, in his infamous News Nation interview with Ross Coulthart.

[1:22:35] Tell him about actually the crash retrieval history predates Roswell. What do you mean predates? Oh, well, so what happened with Magenta, for those who do not know, and I feel like I don't know, I feel like everyone here in the chat should should know the story, at least the the general gist of it.

[1:22:52] So 1933, northern Italy, something crashes out there. And at first, this is mind you, 1933 is like you know, the uh Hitler's rising to power, fascist Italy, it's like fully in control, Bemidina Mussolini's in charge of Italy.

[1:23:09] And when this thing crashes in 1933, Mussolini is like at first, he doesn't think that it's not human. He thinks that it's like a secret wonder weapon program from the Germans, he thinks it's like an allied program potentially.

[1:23:21] So he starts kind of knocking on doors and he knocks on presumably the Germans' door, and he says, Hey, is this like one of your one of y'all's weapons?

[1:23:29] And the Germans go, No, no, it isn't, but we'd like to work with you to kind of figure out like what's going on here. And so that began a presumably like a over a decade long cooperation between Italian and German scientists in northern Italy over a craft of non human origin.

[1:23:45] Now, okay, so the war goes on. Now we get to 1944, 1945. At some point, the Vatican, Pope Pius of all people, enters the storyline because then he finds out about this program and the unknown craft.

[1:24:00] And Pope Pius in 1944, 1945, he tells the allies about this secret program. And then sometime around this point, uh, allies, presumably like Allied special forces, I'm I'm thinking like OSS or something of that caliber, they then scooped up the craft, they then picked it up, took it out of uh Italian hands, out of German hands, and then flew it back to the United States.

[1:24:25] Um, this craft, I mean, this story is interesting to me for I guess a number of obvious reasons. Uh, predates Roswell. Uh, there's also a pretty substantial paper trail on this retrieval that I think goes under the radar.

[1:24:39] If you want to know more, look up Robert Pinotti in his uh soul speech or his soul lecture that he gave a couple months ago. Very fascinating stuff. At the core of it, what I think is like the biggest signal for this case is that RS 33, I think, was a very real program.

[1:24:55] And it was organized by Benito Mussolini. It had some of the top guys, like basically, you know, the Oppenheimers and the Einsteins of like Italian science, if you will.

[1:25:04] Like Marconi was one of these people that was involved, Marconi being like the father of the radio. Um, and then of course, last but not least, uh the involvement of the Vatican as well, the Catholic Church, uh, which goes kind of towards some of my personal interests as a Catholic myself.

[1:25:19] I'm interested in this topic uh for a lot of the wider questions, but also the presumed involvement of the church as well in a lot of points or incidents in this topic.

[1:25:29] And this is one of the oldest cases where we kind of see that, at least in the modern sense. Uh so for all those reasons, magenta is certainly my number one case.

[1:25:37] But I'm curious what you guys think about that ranking. I it's yeah, I mean, magenta is fantastic. I I think you hit the nail on the head with talking about the vibrant paper trail surrounding magenta, specifically the RS 33 docs that talk about a gag order, imprisonment, and fines for individuals who speak about the craft.

[1:25:56] And you talked about Marconi, you know, furthermore down that line, Marconi's own daughter and grandson uh kind of confirmed that Marconi was in a secret Italian government office called the RS 33, and that he was very outspoken about how he believed extraterrestrials existed to his family.

[1:26:13] What was interesting about that is uh, you know, Mark Marconi is thought to have led this RS 33. His grandson and daughter stated it wasn't Marconi that led the RS 33, but instead Enrico Fermi of the Fermi paradox.

[1:26:26] And, you know, Fermi, who started the the world's first artificial nuclear reactor under a football field, I think, out in Chicago. Um so that's that's really interesting as well.

[1:26:34] And that kind of parlays with what I like to talk about about the Manhattan Project 2.0. But uh it's a classic. I I should have guessed you would have picked Magenta, especially with Pope Pius XII being involved there.

[1:26:46] Excellent. Yep. Yep. I uh it it it hits it it checks all the boxes, it checks it, it it has all the different themes. Like if you had to chat GPT a crash retrieval that like um pandered to me, this this would be one of the outputs, I'd think.

[1:27:02] But it happened, so Rob, what are your thoughts? Well, I mean, I I love the magenta lore. I don't know nearly as much about it as you guys do.

[1:27:12] Uh, I've more focused on more modern stuff personally. Um, but I think that magenta is extremely compelling, especially because I've done a lot of research into uh like Nazi rat lines and things of that nature.

[1:27:25] Now, I I did yeah, and you always hear weird, interesting things about magenta too when you talk to people in this subject. Uh, I can't remember who it was that I was talking to recently, and I apologize to them if they're watching this.

[1:27:36] Uh, but it was recently discussed with me a theory about potentially the the craft from magenta being moved from uh not necessarily directly back to the United States, but in instead exfiltrated to one of the other Italian um one of the other Italian territories that they had conquered, which I believe to be Ethiopia, uh if I'm not mistaken.

[1:28:00] Um moved it out of Italy specifically because the Allied assault on Italy was going to take place, uh, and then they could more easily move it away from um what was the explanation given to me?

[1:28:13] The explanation given to me was that you could move it away from Italy by saying, Oh, well, we're gonna take it towards this captured territory so that we can safely work on it away from, you know, our homeland, uh, which doesn't arouse Nazi suspicion, as opposed to saying, Well, we're just gonna fly it back to the United States, uh, because it was in late stages of the war, and maybe that could have aroused some sort of suspicion or, you know, some some type of blowback.

[1:28:37] Um, that was the theory that was floated to me. I thought that was pretty cool. I don't know what the evidentiary basis is on that, but it's one of those things that's just so rich in different historical things that touch on it that I don't know, it anything could be true.

[1:28:52] So that's it. That's that's very fascinating, Rob. I I had never personally heard that. You know, yeah, I'm sure Kerm, you you've also heard all sorts of stories about where this craft was taken, both in Italian and and when it was back channeled.

[1:29:05] You hear about like Mednik Hill, uh places in Czechoslovakia, other secure Italian military bases, but that's really interesting, Rob. So so, Rob, your number one, just to confirm, is is Keksburg.

[1:29:18] Yes, absolutely. Okay. Do you have anything you want to expand on regarding Kexburg? Because I know we touched on it a little bit, but kind of skipped over uh your larger scale discussion of it as your number one.

[1:29:29] Um, no, I mean, I don't really have like a larger discussion to to go into on it. It is something that I would like to maybe write something about or like produce like a long form piece on, you know, potentially as part of my job.

[1:29:42] Um, but it it's it's just it's a classic American case. It's 1960s, middle America, uh, you know, right there in Pennsylvania where it's a heavily populated area, although there's enough like you know, nature for something to crash and people to still have to comb through the woods to be able to find it.

[1:30:01] Um, you know, it's been it's been represented in popular media so many times, like even as far back as like the adventures of Buckaroo Bonsai across the eighth dimension, uh, the ship that the the black black Troid lands in is designed to look like the Kecksburg Acorn.

[1:30:18] You know, it's it it it's interesting. And there there's also the modern aspect to it where in 2002, like Leslie had that sci fi report um on science's failure to investigate UAP, which they they they collaborated with this group.

[1:30:33] It was like the Coalition for Freedom of Information, uh, and they like FOIA NASA for the info and then they ended up suing for it later uh and finding out that Moondust did actually deal with the 1965 recovery in Kexburg if I'm not mistaken.

[1:30:47] I might be butchering the details there please please correct me if I'm wrong. But you know, but they couldn't locate the file. And you know you don't lose a file on something like that.

[1:30:59] You're generally withholding it when that's the answer um and losing it is the is the excuse. So it's uh it's very compelling. You know I saw somebody in the chat say is there like a centralized repository for crash retrievals?

[1:31:16] I would highly suggest the book Magic Eyes Only by Ryan Wood. It is the best compilation of cases you can find for more of a brief overview. I really recommend that book.

[1:31:26] And of course shout out the legend Leonard Stringfield and his crash retrievals of the third status reports one through seven you know guys I I'm shocked neither of you mentioned I what I believe to be my favorite my favorite crash retrieval of all time which is Kingman I knew that you were going to mention it so that's why I left it out because I know yeah we talk about where that material went so often that it's you know Kingman to me is is so important because what's the medical practice of inserting dye into a vein to see it where it travels is called like an angiogram, right?

[1:32:01] If I'm sorry if there's medical professionals who who know I'm I'm butchering this yeah injected contrast dye okay because with with Kingman uh what's so important about Kingman at least for me one of my favorite things is you can trace out individuals named in the Kingman architecture follow through TRW to Northrop Groman uh from the Air Force Special Weapons Center AFSWC up into the modern day AFRL even up to the Kona blue PSAP uh there's a lot more to chew on with Kingman as well I'm sure you guys are familiar with the work of Harry Drew.

[1:32:34] He produced something a very lost documentary that I found by the way called Seven Days in May, where he talks about not one, not two, but three crashes that occurred in Kingman over a week period in May of 1953.

[1:32:46] And that Arthur Stansell Jr. only was present for one of those crash retrievals and I I would like to explore that sometime uh because Kingman is just such a fascinating case definitely my favorite yeah and then also presumably a uh congressional staffer has located the memo that uh outlines basically the secrecy structure that kind of resulted from this specific recovery as well.

[1:33:08] So yeah and you know like I said so near and dear to my heart according to Stansel who wrote in his own diary, Dr. Ed Dahl ordered him to the crash retrieval site who of course was on the Manhattan Projects Project Alberta went on to serve as senior VP at TRW's uh uh systems group and their office of special projects their little special projects department and then of course uh TRW Systems group was bought up by Northrop Grumman's mission system which I believe holds the Northrop Grumman UFO portfolio to this day so there's just there's so much interesting stuff with Kingman and also big shout outs as well we didn't talk about more we we of course didn't talk about uh Varginia which that's James Fox's bird uh if you talk about Virginia you got to shout out James Fox let that man speak on Maje Brazil in 2020 which deserves a lot more investigation uh I've seen in the chat uh Cape Girardeau in nineteen forty one uh in that's Missouri if if I'm if I'm remembering correctly 1941 Missouri really interesting case the 1960s Shag Harbor up in Canada uh you know there there's so many we missed out on but um you know I I asked these lads to do to do their top five.

[1:34:16] Yeah. One thing that's worth mentioning about Kingman is some somebody in the chat mentioned this and they are correct. Um just to verify for you uh Chris Mellon in the the text messages that came out via FOIA did refer to the Kingman Arizona crash not as a crash but landing.

[1:34:32] Yep oh yeah well that's even what Arthur Stansell Jr. describes right like almost a forced landing I think he was called onto site to estimate how at what velocity this craft impacted the local area.

[1:34:44] And he stated that you know this might have been in excess of 1000 miles per hour but was shocked there was no deformation or damage on the craft. Yeah.

[1:34:52] What's interesting about what Harry Drew did at the Kingman site he he actually went to the site in his documentary and found old rations from 1953 old uh I think it was either Army or Air Force rations and he dated them by these interesting drops of solder on the tops of the ration packs that were only dated uh back to the night 1953 specifically it's incredibly intriguing.

[1:35:13] Oh my god get Steve 1973 or Steve MRE whatever the guy is from YouTube on that like immediately so what do you say now fellas we got a a ton of uh QA shall we answer the let's hit it super chats and get to QA because we have like near 30 questions let's do it yeah okay so where where were we last time um sorry let me just just find out here okay I I I believe yeah we are at this point Sammy Shammy thank you very much do you believe the Roswell wreckage and bodies are still at Wright Patterson IDK which facilities Burleson visited and I'm almost 100% convinced that whatever craft they had at S bar moved to decades ago I personally don't think and this is just my assessment that that Wright Patterson still has a suite of specifically bodies and and technologies housed there.

[1:36:06] You guys might have a different opinion uh my opinion isn't necessarily nuanced it's just my my assessment currently so I think there's two ways that you can look at this um I don't know how I feel about there still being bodies or wreckage at certain locations like that.

[1:36:23] But there there's two schools of thought that I sort of entertained in my mind whenever I think about this. And it's why I'm sort of uh sort of frozen in indecision here.

[1:36:32] One school of thought is that yeah, absolutely of course you would get it the hell out of there and you would put it in you know different facilities and spread that out so it's not all in one place potentially, but also so that nobody knows where it is.

[1:36:44] You move it from facility to facility relatively regularly um generally unnamed ones so that anybody comes knocking, it's not in the place where they obviously expect it to be.

[1:36:54] The other school of thought here and I think about this one a lot is that with the advantage of having a permanent facility like Wright Patterson Air Force Base that has a ton of contractors coming in and out constantly, wouldn't it be advantageous just to keep it there and to continuously build underground facilities and then build facades for those underground facilities that are nearly unintelligible to anybody who comes by like an official that aren't on the major blueprints that nobody knows are there.

[1:37:24] So that over years and years with lots of money, you would have a nearly perfect you know unnoticeable facade. We're talking like James Bond level like secret door type thing uh where you know when we know the the officials are coming or the inspectors are coming or anybody who's not supposed to know about this is coming we put this up and oh wow the you know the doorway to Division Z isn't there.

[1:37:48] That's my other school of thought and I lean towards that one. So I think possibly they are there. That's a great point Rob especially when you look back at something like uh Leonard Stringfield status reports something that popped up from 1974 or 1978 to 1994 the years in which he was writing that were informants coming to him and saying hey at Wright Patterson there's a very extensive underground infrastructure that is housing physical bodies and that's actually really interesting Rob.

[1:38:15] That's a that's a great thought yeah the longer you have a facility the better opportunities you have to trick that facility out with crazy stuff especially when it's the heart of the Air Force and there's insane amounts of money going into the managing the managing of the facility itself.

[1:38:34] Everybody in the Dayton Ohio area works for the Air Force or does work for the Air Force in some way. So I I should say that you know regardless of if most infrastructure has been moved out of Wright Patterson because in my opinion it makes more sense with available land and underground infrastructure and sort of the the flight test infrastructure that the western ranges is a better place for bulk materials and possibly craft not necessarily biologics is you know the Kexburg craft according to a trucker that bust in you know different materials and one trucker who bust in the acorn allegedly into um into Wright Patterson stated the craft was built into a a basically a brick building.

[1:39:15] So you know possibly the Kexburg craft is is still literally built into a building out near the old firehouse at Wright Patterson. I can't remember the trucker's date name, but he gave an interview shortly before he died talking about different projects of bussing in materials and concrete and when he bust in a certain load he saw a uh a a very large acorn shape about 12 feet in total height uh sitting in a hangar that you know subsequent visits of truckloads of bricks it was starting to get kind of boxed in literally dang that's okay we'll get through these so we can get through the questions because we got some excellent thank you uh Bernoy Burnoy 15 don't know how to say it but thank you very much triangle craft visible uh during one to two minutes where we're

[1:40:00] 50K population cities in Europe, how do we explain the lack of media coverage and air control leaks? I'm not quite sure because we have the uh Belgian UFO wave in 1989 that was seen by thousands of individuals, and of course the Phoenix lights in 1997.

[1:40:13] Um, there have been very mass sightings. That's very surprising how that sort of stuff gets treated and and ridiculed still.

[1:40:21] Yeah. I, you know, I don't really know how to weigh in on that. It's uh one of those things where uh I don't know which case you're referring to, but I will say that uh the European laws on like media control and stuff like that, I'm not familiar with, but I'll say it's probably pretty easy to control media at large.

[1:40:41] Um, you know, all social networks are eventually owned by the same group of people, uh, or you know, rich. The same group of people means rich people, is what I mean here.

[1:40:51] And that, like, you know, inevitably when you're a certain amount of rich, you're also in bed with governments uh as a part of doing business. So yeah. And uh, Jesse Michaels actually had a great point about this sort of uh media bias on the topic.

[1:41:04] I it was either on on Joe Rogan, I believe it was, but he was talking about how the WAPO, when they published their uh just ridiculous article about Yankee Blue and so forth, that uh Jesse Michaels brought in a different, very senior individual.

[1:41:18] I have my guesses who that might be, who tried to shop a very accurate, uh, very apropos UFO article that the WAPO turned that down, but decided to publish the factually false and a very incomplete.

[1:41:29] Uh I can't remember who was the author's name that received an award for this. Joel Schulman. Joel Schulman. Shechtman, yeah. Yeah. It was the Wall Street Journal. I don't that the thing you're saying the Washington Post is the Wall Street Journal.

[1:41:41] That's yeah, they start with W, they all blend together. I get it. That's not to be nitpicky. Cancel anime again. Another interesting niche retrieval case was Mark McCandlish of the F 117 looking ARV in eastern Germany.

[1:41:53] Don't know if you're familiar with it. I think this was 1989, and McCandlish talked about this in his Secret Space Symposium presentation uh shortly before his passing. The craft morphology looked very similar to an F 117, but according to Macandlish and Michael Schratz's drawings, it had like almost pool lights propulsion systems underneath it for indefinite loiter.

[1:42:13] Uh, but pretty interesting case. I don't I don't know if there's much literature to actually read on it, but McCandlish did indeed talk about that. LNR's 5638. Thank you very much.

[1:42:25] What do you think about some FFRDCs claiming they don't normally work or have classified materials but still have counterintelligence officers? Yeah, the FFRDCs aren't working on classified materials but still have hidden uh special security offices.

[1:42:37] Um yeah, think about the the construction of FFRDCs. They're they're made specifically to fulfill the long term strategic needs of their partner and cognizant government authority. They are just, as I stated in the minor video, an RD extension of the federal government.

[1:42:53] Yeah. All I will say is that if you if you if you confront a public affairs officer on this, they're just gonna look at you and they're gonna give you the sir, this is a Wendy's stare.

[1:43:02] They're gonna be like, yeah, I have to say this. I mean, like this is the thing I have to say. Like, didn't Chris Sharp do that with Lockheed Martin regarding Kona Blue materials and public affairs?

[1:43:12] Did your whole sir, this is a Wendy's? Yeah, yeah. Like, well, what it what answer do you expect out of us? Yeah. This is from Mr. Justin. Shout out, Mr.

[1:43:22] Justin. Good friend to us all, good friend in real life. He made me that flux liner behind my shoulder. Justin's a great guy, and Justin, I'll be seeing you for some UFC fights soon.

[1:43:32] Matt Brown said on Jesse Michaels interview these craft have come from archaeological digs with tens of meters of sediment from the craft. From my own research, can range from 50k to 1 million years.

[1:43:41] Thoughts on how old these might be. Uh, you know, Mr. Justin, that might mean we got to get you up here sometime to present that research because I think that's extremely intriguing.

[1:43:52] And I personally, this is this is out of my wheelhouse, Justin. So I I don't have much thoughts on on this, but I would actually really like to hear from you.

[1:44:01] What do you guys think? I've I've definitely talked to people who have dealt with research similar to this, right? And one of the things that like I talked to Matthew Sidagas recently when I was in Toronto, uh, and he was presenting, at least in part, uh his paper on crash likelihood.

[1:44:20] Like I forget exactly what the term on his paper was, but at some point he he discusses a formula for calculating the likelihood of craft visitation and the likelihood of technological failure of said craft, even at the very advanced level of technology that they would be at in order to have traveled, however far they traveled to get here.

[1:44:41] And that frequency, even at its very like least optimistic, is about one per every 10 years. So if Earth is a habitable planet, my thoughts are this um from the moment of habitability, you probably have something coming here and looking at it once every 10 years or so, um, given that there's been life developing here, or that maybe life was influenced in some way.

[1:45:08] I don't know. I'm not like the expert on things like that. But I would say that there's been a huge, huge number of you know, alien civilizations that have likely visited this planet surely for the fact that it supports in a very uh wide array of temperatures and, you know, environments, uh, life.

[1:45:27] Rob, that's an interesting point. Uh, about maybe about once every 10 years. That would comport with what Dave Crush said on Dr. Phil, that anywhere between 25 to 100 crashes in his estimation have occurred.

[1:45:38] Yeah, so you know what, Justin? We're gonna get you up here and we're gonna talk about this. Yeah, and and just to to clarify, Sadagas's calculations are at that the outside level.

[1:45:51] Like it could definitely be more than that. You know what I mean? So just his conservative estimation. Conservative approach. Absolutely nice. Toxic fart again says if there was a UFO battle in Nuremberg in 1561 as depicted in the painting, there should be debris, right?

[1:46:05] Perhaps that dovetails into what m Dr. Justin has said that perhaps uh sedimentary layers can reveal certain debris or materials. Wait, you got his doctorate? No, we just call him Dr.

[1:46:17] Justin. Just because he's he's the guy who can solve any problem. Uh just Justin's a whiz kid. I actually have a really great answer for this one. Uh please refart.

[1:46:26] Um, I recently talked to Mart Sander, the author of here, let me show you his book, the author of Object M, the book that is about the Merivalja object, uh Estonia's buried mysteries.

[1:46:40] Supposedly there's a UFO buried under this house out in Estonia. We did a special about it recently for News Nation. And um I talked to him, and and there's a number of people that he's spoken to who were studying that Nuremberg woodcut.

[1:46:54] Um, and the theory there is that the Baltic Sea is an extremely geologically stable region. So if things have crashed in the Baltic Sea, they probably haven't been disturbed for many thousands of years.

[1:47:07] Um the theory was that it wasn't directly over Nuremberg, that they could have been viewing it at such an angle, and the the display could have been so large as to trick the viewers into believing it was taking place directly over Nuremberg, yet was taking place over the Baltic Sea.

[1:47:25] That's one of the theories. Um, and I tend to believe that's possible. Um, that a lot of the debris and objects from that, if things did get you know brought down, if that's what they were seeing, um, which again is another assumption that we have to sort of lean on when we're you know creating this chain of logic here.

[1:47:42] If we assume that it was a you know craft that were battling each other and that some of them crashed, and that we assume that maybe they saw it at this wrong angle, it could be in the Baltic Sea.

[1:47:53] So I hadn't thought about it like that, but that that makes a lot of sense. I like it, Rob. I actually like that a lot. Dev a canned M.

[1:48:04] When I grew up, I want a brain like mine. I would like a brain like Kerm and Rob. My brain's getting mush from uh brother. You don't want my brain.

[1:48:12] If you think your brain's bad, mine's worse. Do not trust me. Forgotten. Thank you so much. Uh, thoughts on Cape Girodeau 1941 crash retrieval. I would love to do a video and or incorporate that into a video one day because there's quite a bit to chew through on the Cape Girodeau crash.

[1:48:28] Very interesting case. I know nothing about it, actually. In in kind of the open lore about this case, Rob, a pastor was called in to perform the last rites on a nearly deceased non human body, one of the pilots of the craft.

[1:48:43] And there might be anecdotal anecdotal evidence from the the fam or statements from the family of that priest or individuals close with that priest who you can either confirm or deny that statement.

[1:48:53] It's a it's a really intriguing case. Okay. But no, yeah. Okay. Thoughts on the Maori Island incident. Strange that Fred Chrisman was involved with Maori Island, was later investigated for the JFK assassination.

[1:49:08] I actually don't have a nuanced take, um, but thank you very much. Do you guys have a nuanced take on Maori Island? I've never really ventured into disproving or trying to, in my mind, prove this case.

[1:49:18] It's one of the ones that I haven't messed with, man. I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you. Of course, somebody had to spend ten dollars to give us a curveball and get nothing for it.

[1:49:25] Just so you guys really sorry. Hold on, hold on, hold on. If you want to know more, look into James Carrion's uh YouTube channel. He has a podcast series out called like the the UFO circle jerk.

[1:49:37] He covers Maury Island. Um, basically, there's there's some facts and circumstances about like the two purveyors of this story that like think immediately calls it into question. I know I think that might uh piss off certain people that really love this particular case and I'm close with.

[1:49:54] But um I I don't know. I'm I'm uh I've become a lot more skeptical in recent days, just like in general, um particularly about like UFO stuff. So um yeah.

[1:50:06] So I guess I guess I'm already I'm already biased towards it. But um my man James Carrion he he uh he covered this in pretty good detail. So I can I can send a link on my on my X here after this live stream.

[1:50:18] Yeah please and I think it's worth mentioning that like uh Kermit and I have a lot of skepticism about stuff like this and it's it's definitely not to say that we don't think that crash retrieval is a real thing or that you know UFOs are a real thing.

[1:50:33] There are so many opportunities for other cases that are probably real that just because some people made up some stuff about more notable ones does not really mean anything to me.

[1:50:43] Like it doesn't shoot down my belief in this subject or my not even my belief my knowledge that this is a a true subject so yeah to kind of to kind of add on that like um I'm very much I'm very much with Rob here just to kind of elaborate kind of what girt on what Rob's talking about here like the I think a lot of times we get entrenched in this um kind of in this dilemma or in this thought pattern where we are trying to prove kind of one thing.

[1:51:12] And what I have experienced so many times on this topic and I'm sure a lot of other people's a lot of other people have experienced this is that like when you try to answer one question, you end up having more questions after your first one.

[1:51:26] Sometimes you might not even find an answer to your original one. So it's it's exceedingly frustrating uh navigating this topic at times and like my discernment kind of bandwidth like I just have that maxed up all the all the way because um you you don't really know when you're looking at something for the first time like your perspective on it might be one way right now but then in a couple months like when other stuff kind of comes out or when you kind of just sit with those feelings for a while you kind of at least for me I kind of flip flop in between things all the time.

[1:51:54] But I also talk to my homeboys about this stuff too. So you know we all we all compare notes and talk shop about this as well. So sorry to ramble.

[1:52:02] That hey we're here to listen to you ramble Kurm and last one L cubes L or maybe I'm saying that wrong thank you very much uh thoughts on the Aurora Texas crash of 1897.

[1:52:13] Uh I also have not spent enough time investigating this case but I know in the open source lore uh crash retrieval debris were supposedly dumped into a well which poisoned the local populace back in 1897.

[1:52:25] Uh but as as far as where I lean on the case I I don't have enough information to have a nuanced take. And before you guys answer just to say guys I'm deeply honored by by these super chats.

[1:52:35] You don't have to give a super chat to ask a question just super chat if if if you want to support uh if you want your question answered uh I'm gonna be doing for every live we're gonna be have a you know asking for questions on on YouTube and and Discord but I'm deeply honored and and thank you so much for this.

[1:52:54] Uh can I answer this one super chat real quick? Yeah please um so Lando OG asks me what is the story behind the news nation footage of an egg hanging from the helicopter as shown in last week's episode I think Ross said it's real.

[1:53:09] So we showed that footage last year before I started working for the network and I wasn't here when that footage was obtained. Um but my understanding is that that was provided through a colleague of Jake Barber's and this is this is public knowledge of not revealing anything that hasn't been talked about before.

[1:53:25] This wasn't directly from Jake to my understanding this was from uh like a colleague or or someone who's a close contact of Jake's uh and was provided the news nation via a dead drop which my boss who's like one of the most senior people in the company had to like trudge through snow and retrieve from a snowbank uh on a flash drive and then take back to our studio.

[1:53:49] Um that's all I can tell you about where that footage came from. Uh I think it's an interesting story but it doesn't really tell you probably the more crucial things of like where did it actually originate from which I I can't answer for you.

[1:54:03] So yeah and I'm just no no no like it somebody in the chat just said like always some crazy unnecessary story. I I get that and I do believe that in some small sense that the way that that was delivered to my executive producer was designed to make him feel like concerned and unnerved.

[1:54:20] I think it was unnecessary and there's a lot of ways they could have given that footage to us which would have been just as safe but that's just me.

[1:54:27] Yeah and just to confirm Rob producer Megan had talked about that before so that's publicly available information. Yeah and it's been it's been talked about in a couple QA's and a couple other places as well so yeah I knew that before I even interviewed for the job uh because I made I cracked a joke about it during my job interview with the guy who actually had to go retrieve the flash drive like within the first several minutes.

[1:54:50] So okay gang shall we get to a large list of of questions kind of put into yeah Kerm we got we got quite a bit we got quite a few questions i i'm putting them all in a PowerPoint format because some of the questions are long so we can keep track of of everything.

[1:55:06] Okay okay we'll start we'll we'll go through um and we'll answer these questions increasingly it feels like we're in a corner and there's all this will he won't he build up around Trump if this administration and our few allies in Congress don't have the will or ability to break this open, where do you see the community heading and what would be the next track to take do you fear that existing materials and knowledge will be essentially put on a shelf and will actually be heading backwards starting from scratch from Father Chris Kerm you I feel like your brain is cooking.

[1:55:38] We're already seeing this I think we're already seeing the answer to the question here of basically I just to kind of summarize it here and this is a good question of like okay there has been this just continuous banging of the drum of UFO UAP disclosure and then also a targeted kind of focus towards compelling Donald Trump to like show leadership on this topic to give the big speech right I mean we've heard about like the the rumors of like a imposed announcement or supposed speech um over the summer.

[1:56:13] I don't really know how truthful that is I know there's been current reporting that like he has a speech locked and loaded and he's just waiting for the right time.

[1:56:20] A lot of it it you know a lot of this dynamic um some some friends of ours in the community we we describe this as K fabe which is a like wrestling kind of concept where basically the like what you are seeing is scripted drama.

[1:56:35] It's it's it comes from like professional wrestling from WWE of like it isn't really real I I hate I hate to break anyone's heart to to tell you that WWE isn't really real.

[1:56:45] It is it's it's scripted acting and great performance. Of course right it's great acting it's great performance people watch it for those reasons but long and short of it is like K Fabe is like the script has an ending like there already is an ending it just hasn't you haven't seen it out yet and basically what we are watching is this kind of like scripted kind of drama.

[1:57:04] And so there there is a I guess an avenue of thinking or like a mindset that has developed recently where you kind of look at what has happened over the past six months and you're like okay well a lot of this just seems like K fabe of you know rallying Trump and then these files releases and kind of like a half pregnant disclosure that we're kind of seeing where you do on one hand have the Pentagon and the White House putting out UFO info, but same time it's like people are kind of saying and I would agree of like disclosure has not happened yet.

[1:57:33] Like this isn't that this isn't how you disclose stuff. Um so long and short of it like absent of any sort of executive action and you have this community that has been encouraged, coddled or I guess like they have been getting this messaging constantly of like you know disclosure is going to happen in two weeks.

[1:57:52] Well absent of that payoff you're gonna see a lot of people um I I think losing their minds essentially collectively and we are kind I I think we've seen this already um with a lot of the drama in this space basically like absence absent of a lot of this like absent of a lot of the evidence or more of these file releases or Trump coming forward uh we've seen this community devolve into like people politics and ad hominem and attacks towards one another and unfortunately that and more of that is gonna probably go on and it's gonna get worse um if there isn't really any sort of action.

[1:58:29] Cause it seems like at least the bulk of the attention is on trying to get Trump to show leadership and to like kind of move the ball in the right direction.

[1:58:37] Um I I don't really see or know of any other ways that this situation or this paradigm can change other than that, but open to other comments on that end.

[1:58:47] So I think you'd think I think you're thinking too small. The the ball's already been started rolling uh there's cultural zeitgeist momentum on this it'll happen eventually whether it happens slow or fast is one thing or another.

[1:58:59] I'm not gonna overthink it. I'm just gonna keep moving forward every day. That's all I can really say on that. Yeah and as as far as the K fabe if if that's happening at an administrative level it's certainly not at the congressional level with with Burleson Grush and others these people are busting their tails uh to desperately appeal to the administration to start actually taking initiative on on on matters further than just the tranches of of quite frankly crap that we've gotten.

[1:59:25] Yeah. And also kind of what what Rob said I I do feel like the toothpaste is a little too far out to be put back in the tube and that's thanks to David Grush.

[1:59:34] Yeah absolutely so you know there's uh also I just want to point out we we do have a hard time limit on this stream. We have to end at a certain point so let's try and uh push so that we can get through these questions as quickly okay I'll answer a lot quicker.

[1:59:47] No no no Kurm please don't know the need to answer quicker. Don't no yeah no that's not what I was saying. Uh and and and Kurm I agree with you insofar as to say that the there does seem to be theatrics at the at the administration

[2:00:00] level. Um you know I think it came up on on Twitter yesterday Steven Miller had like a alien UFO birthday cake or something. Perhaps that was a troll. Perhaps Tim Burchett.

[2:00:09] Tim Burchett that was Tim Burchett, okay. Yeah. Someone someone in his office got uh him a alien themed birthday cake. Steven Miller might have gotten one too. I don't know about that one.

[2:00:18] I just remember Birchett posting about it and then read it. Stephen Miller got one. Steven Miller got one. His wife his wife got an alien themed birthday cake. Laura Ingraham posted it on Twitter.

[2:00:31] Yeah and then yeah. I have a hot take here I'll just share on the stream. I think the birthday cakes I think it's part of the disinformation operation. Like I think it's part of the like kind of gotcha thing.

[2:00:42] I don't know. I just wanted to say that out loud. It's just kind of in poor taste. Like when Nancy Mace created those t shirts with a UFO on it that said like go go mace or something similar uh it's it's just in poor taste.

[2:00:54] It's not funny. There's an alternative view here that it you know it's his wife that selected the cake right and it could be a joke to the fact that he's been spending a large amount of his personal time dealing with the UAP issue.

[2:01:08] And that's something that they've probably talked to each other about. You know that's another way to look at it but if you want to try and be an optimist um you know one thing I would say is that it's also important for everybody as somebody who deal I'm in the newsroom all the time.

[2:01:23] I listen to the type of things that we hear from insiders within the within the administration I think you guys need to really really hold back on trying to assign too much agency or long term planning to the Trump administration or at least to Donald Trump the president.

[2:01:39] This is a person who is ruled by emotion and vibes is a completely vibes based presidency. The last one was and so is this one um like that can turn on a dime like when you know he changes his mind about something and that's what the whole campaign to get you know his attention is about is all it takes is getting his attention about the subject for him to decide well damn it I'm going to do something um you know I because I want to do it.

[2:02:05] It's not there there's not a whole lot of logic or reason or long term planning I think that's in place with regards to this subject. Although I do think plenty of people within the administration are trying to gain control over the programs that do exist.

[2:02:19] Right. And there's real risk at trying to game out to wait for a next administration like we saw with the Biden admin, the ICIG and Jake Sullivan based upon David Grush's disclosures and numerous hours of testimony given, that sort of information made its way up the flagpole, but administrative elements failed to act I foresee the same kind of future if let's say we get a Rubio presidency.

[2:02:41] You know Rubio has talked about the subject but to be quite frank he's a bit of a spineless coward on this topic who's a bit more of a follower not a leader.

[2:02:48] So it seems like what you said Rob due to Trump's rashness and uh kind of inability to kind of game things out and ability to act on a whim it I I understand the appeal to administration specifically now.

[2:03:01] Yeah. Okay, let's get to this and and I think the last question here by Beckham is super similar. So but but by Zeus, can you recommend any resources open to the public with any information pertaining to DARPA SID Security and Intelligence Directorate I'll stop right there but I would say look between 2005 and 2009 for PowerPoint slide decks published under SID.

[2:03:23] Okay. This is a question we were we were talking about before actually um this is a great question probably my favorite of the day Johnny Kano3941 says do you see evidence for what I've been calling Kona Blue 2.0 not a literal retrieval but a new UAP architecture being built outside the fractured legacy system.

[2:03:40] I'm thinking Skywatcher evolving into the white sands government facility effort, barber's path to redemption, independent collection sensors, whistleblower channels and now OD and I UAP Science advisory council does that convergence look like a deliberate parallel architecture to you or are we connecting unrelated initiatives?

[2:03:57] And I'll I'll let you guys take off with this but I think this stems from uh Colt Hart's recent reporting that sort of the administration has engaged in new UFO related specifically kind of crash retrieval efforts.

[2:04:08] And Kerm I'd like to hear from you first please yeah uh well when I heard the allegations about Skywatchers involvement with the White House it uh to me it seemed to connect some dots.

[2:04:22] So I think initially I was under the impression that Skywatcher did have some type of contractual obligation with the government. I just didn't know to the extent of that relationship.

[2:04:32] So them coming out with the White House is it's a crazy it's a crazy story, right? Because I mean Skywatcher the whole business itself the whole enterprise existed purely to demonstrate to the public that like UFOs existed and that they had the protocols, methods, psionic abilities in place to call those in on command.

[2:04:54] Now what I will say like with all that said is you know to your comment like does this convergence look like a deliberate parallel architecture? Yes it does. And I think that should frustrate and piss off people or at least it's it frustrated me because you know it it seems ironic that it seemed like a lot of this discussion related to a historical unacknowledged special access program or a web of it, if you will.

[2:05:19] But what do you mean to tell me that the White House can't get answers from that group and instead has seemingly decided to prove that the UFOs are real by having their own program essentially and having this group um it's it it's a lot of reasons to to to scratch my head and I don't really know how to make heads or tails of it without kind of like more evidence or more reporting on this.

[2:05:41] So I'll just stop there. But it it it does it does in my mind raise some red flags about the seriousness of the administration and then also the depths of the administration's inquiries into things that I think this community has convinced itself for some time.

[2:05:58] So I'll just stop there. Without going into explicit detail a lot of these things are separate initiatives that are completely separate and parallel to each other. I would say you know I I don't want to go into like my super detailed knowledge on a lot of these things um because a lot of that is work related for me.

[2:06:16] But I will say that you know we're we're connecting dots where they definitely look like they're connected. I'm not gonna slight you there at all. But in a lot of cases these are all independent efforts to try and gain some sort of foothold on you know programs that they don't have the ability to gain a foothold on.

[2:06:37] You know, Jake Barber would be the person to tell you that best because he's on both sides of it. Yep well well said Lats. This is a long question by Austin Litz that I think we can boil down into the last sentence because of course it's important for us to touch on and Rob I think you and Kern both gave a pretty eloquent discussion of of analysis and skepticism in this field.

[2:06:58] Have you really thought about the chance that all this is deep layers of propaganda and cleverly inserted misinformation Rob. Well I think about it all the time and every day I think about it all the time and every day but I will say that while there's a ton of that and there is um I'm now at a hundred percent belief that there is a at the very least crash retrieval program of technologies of non anthropogenic origin.

[2:07:38] And that's the best way I could put it um I yes there's a chance there was a chance at some point that it was all layers of propaganda and cleverly inserted misinformation.

[2:07:50] But I I think I'm past that in terms of what I believe based on evidence I've seen, but that's just me. I can't prove that to you yet before I give my answer I want to I want to invoke something I've talked about on a previous live stream where if you remember during the summer the conversation about UFOs started to hint at or at least there was an insinuation that a lot of this stuff is the is demonic in nature.

[2:08:24] And you look at the like exorcism cases within the Catholic Church and whatnot and there is a very clear correlation right like there are like actual cases of demonic exorcisms in which the possessed seemingly manifests what looks like a gray alien, like a gray entity.

[2:08:42] Now some of us may look at that and say oh well if the demons are able to do that then that means that they must have created all the UFOs so all the gray aliens were just demons.

[2:08:51] No no no no no these are two separate concepts one they're both aware of each other one is informing the other so with this like to take it back to like deep state layers of propaganda and cleverly inserted misinformation okay the government has an in has two different incentives.

[2:09:09] They have multiple different incentives. The first incentive is if they have this stuff in their possession, they have an incentive to exploit it and to get the best technology possible.

[2:09:19] So okay, so that's a legacy program. But then second to that they also have an incentive so that no one else finds out about it. That would it that would that would create or require the need for like a misinformation disinformation operation.

[2:09:32] So it is entirely possible that you could have both of these operations going on in parallel maybe one is not aware of the other one like this info is not really aware of the whole thing, but you let the disinfo people run as if they've been convinced oh well it wasn't real to begin with.

[2:09:46] So just run and create whatever stories you want to because well I mean human beings like we're pretty imaginative people we're pretty creative. Like some of us are extremely talented in that regard.

[2:09:57] I mean frick Rick Doty wrote all the SERPO documents. Let's be real. Like he created a lot of that lore. So you know all this is to say there is a disinformation incentive within the government.

[2:10:09] That disinformation incentive at times has used the UFO topic as a means to basically get you off the trail and to you know make people go crazy or whatever.

[2:10:20] But do not let that finding convince you that like it isn't like there there's nothing to it at all. Like these I I see these things as like mutually exclusive.

[2:10:30] One informs the other I think one uses the other as like lore, if you will. But I mean I'm still interested in this for a lot of the same reasons that you know my two friends are in that there is irre there's irreconcilable differences in all the available evidence which suggests that there may be an unacknowledged activity dealing with non human intelligence.

[2:10:53] Well said gentlemen and you know as as far as my perspective of course I wouldn't be doing what I do if I thought there were layers of misinformation and and propaganda.

[2:11:02] However, I always must ask myself if I'm being benewitz in this situation when I'm pursuing a specific niche of a topic or specific threads of evidence. It's always important to to ask yourself that question to make sure you stay grounded and don't get carried away.

[2:11:16] Yeah. And if you're not asking yourself that like I I don't know if I can really trust you because it's like any serious person, I feel like there you you will inevitably have your feet kind of on both fences and also like you should be thinking critically as well.

[2:11:30] Like you should right you should be able to play devil's advocate in your head. If you're not able to do that, I don't know how effective you can be I yeah every day in my job I constantly red team all the ideas and things that I you know research and I honestly probably throw out four out of five things before they ever reach you know the ears or eyes of anybody else in my organization because that's how much bullshit there is.

[2:11:51] So okay let's let's continue with the questions lads because we got about 20 more minutes and then we'll have to sign off. Uh miter did not answer the interrogatory Burleson sent are there consequences for them and if so what are they in the same subject are you aware of other companies FFRDCs institutions that didn't answer their interrogatory from Kamara discord question.

[2:12:13] Yes to part two of the question part one, I'll tell you exactly what MITRE is trying to do. They're trying to play the bureaucratic red tape game of uh aging out uh Burleson just waiting hopefully he'll forget hopefully his office forgets doesn't uh send up follow ups or so forth there can be severe legal consequences for them um not responding at at this point at this point it is extremely suspicious miter hasn't even responded hey we've Christopher Land specifically hasn't responded hey during our preliminary searches we found no records we'll continue to do so uh but yes miter has not responded I'll also call the CIA referring Dave Grush and Burleson back to Aero with their response the Aerospace corporation sending two guys green behind the gills to basically discuss nonsense in person and waste Birdleson and Grush's time uh there's a lot of uh not even tradecraft but stupidity around how these specific uh corporation services agencies are answering these interrogatives and it's extremely revealing and this is an excellent pursuit by Representative Burleson to continue to push up on this at this point though Burleson does need to um basically you know press on on this MITRE subject say you your deliverables were due at this point months ago.

[2:13:24] What's up? Yep. Congress will be back in session here in about a week or so. So there'll be an opportunity for that I will say it's pretty stupid of them to try and wait him out because there's not really a chance that he's going to lose his reelection whatsoever.

[2:13:36] He's 99.9% favored in his district so yeah good luck with that guys and Burleson's been around for a while. Yeah and Burleson's a baller he's not gonna let this slide he'll do what needs to be done about this letter and and hats off to him.

[2:13:50] Okay guys thoughts on Dan Sherman and Project Preserved Destiny from I Am Arizona one of the excellent Discord mods thank you so much for all that you do. Rob well first of all I love the book uh Above Black Project Preserve Destiny um I'm a big fan it's you know it's a short book everybody should look it up um his interview on American alchemy was incredible um I've never been able to disprove any of it right or I I mean it's it's weird it's really really really weird.

[2:14:23] I I find it one of the most compelling experiencer or like whistleblower story. It's a combination of both um that's ever existed and I don't know really you can tell by my lack of words that I really like this because I can't even talk about it.

[2:14:40] Um it's so cool. Like why wasn't I recruited is what I thought when I read it um of course I I wouldn't want to take whatever pills they were making him take um but yeah no I like it I just don't think there's anything like actionable about it for me personally because the NSA is such a black box of you don't get to see into that no matter what.

[2:15:03] There's no like legal process that really pierces that because FOIA is very difficult with the NSA um because it's just about all national security reasons that they can exempt everything.

[2:15:14] So you know I don't I don't really know where to go with it but it's certainly awesome story.

[2:15:23] You know the other thing I would point out is that you know supposedly there was a FOIA that was done with regards to Jesse's YouTube channel um airing that interview and they said that they got a Glomar response but I've never seen that Glomar response and I don't think Jesse has either because we've requested it from the person who did the FOIA.

[2:15:43] They've never forwarded it to us. And I've talked to this person numerous times since then and they've still never forwarded me the document. So I I don't know whether this person is just I I don't know bad about stuff like that, doesn't answer DMs or whatever.

[2:15:59] Um because I've interacted with them in comments before and they've responded to me since then but they just haven't responded to that whatsoever. So you know take that as a data point.

[2:16:11] I wonder if that is the FOIA request that's listed on the NSA's website. I don't know if you guys know this, but they like they show all their FOIA filings and one of the keyword FOIA filings they were sent was for Project Preserve Destiny.

[2:16:26] Now the reason why I bring this up is because I remember looking as a one normal person does I remember 2022 looking at the NSA's FOIA site and I just see like seeing all their FOIA logs and I see this like one hit for Project Preserve Destiny and I'm like, what is that?

[2:16:42] Just like that's so weird. And then a couple years later, Rob, when you and I kind of started talking and working together that's when we found out about the Dan Sherman novel and I was like oh that's what this is okay so I don't know funny little bit and then also I guess just follow up there's no chance per perhaps that the person you're talking about potentially was uh this FOIA request that the NSA has record of at least on like specifically okay.

[2:17:08] All right no worries it's kind of a weird one but thought I'd share. Yeah as as far as my position I share the same sentiment Math Matthew Brown stated yesterday on Jesse Michaels that while he has no personal information regarding Dan Sherman uh he finds the case compelling and and the circles of of high trust I have are all speak extremely highly of of Dan Sherman um and sort of his disclosures.

[2:17:34] So I I do hold them in high regard. Okay this question about Eric Davis we kind of answered at the beginning by long knife 42. Oh if you're just joining us now or if you're watching please go back towards the beginning and listen to the discussion of the recent third eye drop interview with Michael Phillip.

[2:17:49] This is a good question from Wave Hunters Surf. How do you know your sources are not feeding you misinformation I just wanted to comment on this real fast. Again as I always say uh I don't necessarily get approached by sources or individuals with information.

[2:18:02] I seek them out. I spend a long time seeking them out uh once I've spoken to those people after many months sometimes years in fact building out a relationship of trust uh I basically take the testimony they give human terrain map it um to explore all avenues of that disclosure, uh find if I see if I find it credible or not, um sort of explore all avenues of that information and and weigh it in regard to what I understand about this topic.

[2:18:27] And uh also to be frank, I I have talked to people who have tried to feed me misinformation. Last year specifically there was this weird limited hangout that all I can describe at that I was approached by with an individual that seemed to have been sent by somebody that was passing along some very interesting documents uh but at the same point some some passage material documents that I was able to verify were indeed passage material.

[2:18:51] So I have been able to kind of scope out some individuals that are um acting not in in the truest of intentions. But again, how do I know my sources aren't feeding me information?

[2:19:02] Uh years of of investigation and relationship building human terrain mapping uh assessments and so forth. Okay so the UFO being and we got to go kind of fast because we got we got 15 minutes until I I got to take my wonderful girlfriend uh out but the UFO being too big to move has recently uh been one of the reasons I fell out of believing all this apparently many insiders know where it is all of these insiders say they want transparency and they want public disclosure.

[2:19:29] Why don't they release this information, the smoking gun evidence we've all been looking for uh so I'll give my two cents on this real fast and then I'll let you guys take it.

[2:19:38] You know, I I don't have a good pulse on on this subject uh from what I understand, which isn't quite a bit because I don't know too much in depth.

[2:19:45] Yeah South Korea is the correct location of of what everybody refers to as the UFO too big to move. Uh as as far as um the importance of this I I do think that somebody like Representative Burleson who's doing site visits

[2:20:00] That going to a place like this location or possibly other UFOs too big to move, because I think the importance of this question is probably a plurality of multiple locations, multiple craft, multiple sites.

[2:20:10] It's going to be real hard to try and hide that stuff. So, unless program elements on sites are literally putting in a cement wall and faking to put some computer equipment to hide that sort of large hangar or large facility, it's going to be real hard to find that stuff.

[2:20:22] So I think one of Representative Burleson's top pursuits should be uh visiting some purported locations of uh facilities far too big to move. Will he get access? That's a whole nother question, especially if there's an ongoing SAP there.

[2:20:34] That could prove to be extremely difficult. But that's just my my two cents on this topic.

[2:20:41] So I'll just say that with regards to the UFO too big to move. Number one, I'm gonna preface this with saying that Ross Coulthart has not told me the location of this.

[2:20:51] And I I have jokingly asked him a number of times, and he just he tells me no, you don't you don't want to deal with that. Um, so the another point that was made to me, independent of that, is that there are potentially a bunch of too big to move UFOs, like that's not apparently uncommon from what I've been told.

[2:21:17] So I think that when you talk about uh mini insiders know where it is, mini insiders know where a UFO that may have been too large to move that was then buried is.

[2:21:28] Do we know if they know about the same one? I don't know. Um, but that's it. Um, you know, I haven't been told by Ross where the one that he refers to is, but um, I would assume that your guesses about South Korea are correct.

[2:21:41] So Kern, you have any any added thoughts? Uh UFO disclosure doesn't happen in a vacuum. Just because we asked nicely, they're not going to show us the UFO too big to move.

[2:21:54] So I yeah. I I was under the impression that they we only had one UFO too big to move. My boy Rob uh seems to understand otherwise. So I have Yeah, I I agree with that assessment that um there's been several instances of assets or materials that are seem far too logistically uh implausible to be able to move to a new site, especially if that that site doesn't have the necessary infrastructure to intake.

[2:22:19] And maybe too big to move is the wrong word in a lot of cases, too. Like logistically implausible to move is a better term because I think that some of the craft that are supposedly buried are not necessarily too large to move.

[2:22:30] Like you might be able to fit them into a C5 galaxy or something like that, like a Globemaster or something. But is it realistic to move them? Hell no.

[2:22:40] Extremely inconvenient to move. That's that's like what we talked about with Waygan. You know, we don't have time to get into the full discussion, but him saying this craft was so enormous, you know.

[2:22:48] He he thought a giant crane must have come in to pull the craft out of the granite clip face. How was that crane brought in? How would that craft be transported out?

[2:22:56] The the logistics around that seem almost infeasible. Yeah. So uh and I I've I've I've talked about this next question, Mike Dobbs, just basically about the individuals I talk to.

[2:23:08] Um, so so I'll skip that just for the the sake of of time. Uh specific numbers I've I've actually said on the it's probably nothing live show, but basically near a dozen individuals that I've you know feel comfortable um speaking or chatting about that sort of information they've discussed.

[2:23:24] Okay, with David Gross Shane wink wink when talking about NHI on the seafloor, your mitre video, uh pedesta email from Robert Fish talking about base in the Atlantic and many other data points.

[2:23:34] How confident are you that a large part of the phenomenon is essentially many elements of the 4chan whistleblower? Uh well, any chance we will hear more from any sources monitoring these supposed bases in the future from UFO Truths and FOIL.

[2:23:46] You guys already know my position on that. So let me hear from you about um NHI presence undersea. I mean, I think it's an amazing concept. It follows the logic of a lot of things.

[2:23:56] Do I know that that's the truth? No.

[2:24:01] I'm just gonna stop it right there. Any of these lines of reasoning, like usually, like, do I think this is true? I think it could be. Uh, I think it's a cool story.

[2:24:10] Do I know that that's true? No. Not at all. Yeah, as far as the the MITRE program, I am extremely confident after years of putting this together at this point, that MITRE does, in fact, monitor a very large what's described as a tic tac factory under the waters of the Bahamas.

[2:24:30] In my own personal assessment, this program likely dates back to around the early 1970s, 1969, after the NERRO was founded and implemented, like the Ivy Bells programs to monitor undersea locations for Soviet subs, specifically around Cuba.

[2:24:44] In fact, and that sort of very large scale undersea monitoring started to um pick up a very large craft. And thus, as a trusted partner for the SAGE initiative with the Air Force, uh MITRE was indeed the trusted partner for the undersea equivalent.

[2:24:58] Um that sort of started to be the impetus for that program, but extremely confident in that. But I don't think that represents all of the phenomenon on this planet.

[2:25:08] I do think there's still uh assets approaching from space or possibly other um temporal spaces here. Okay. A lot of people are trying to play catch up with you.

[2:25:18] Uh, having said that, a question since your affiliation with Eric Burleson, what is the most extreme situation of your knowledge that has been leveraged by parts of the government from AML Kirby 81?

[2:25:28] I said this earlier. Uh, any sort of if I was to have a relationship with that, uh, with Burleson or others, I'm not the person to say that. Um, that being said, from the experiences I've had with Burleson on like the Fresh Freedom podcast and so forth, and even talking to him at the congressional hearings, uh Kerm, you have as well, Rob, you have as well.

[2:25:44] He's extremely proactive about this topic, and the topic's in good hands as as long as he is operating on it. He's one of the few good ones.

[2:25:55] Uh, when presenting, we kind of talked about this with misinformation and and sort of not believing everything you hear in the topic and having your uh skeptics guard up to basically be able to filter through information.

[2:26:06] When presenting the research that you have diligently studied and believed to be true with a very high probability, do you ever read it back to yourself and think this is also crazy?

[2:26:15] It can't be true. This is a crazy topic, gentlemen. In my opinion, it's the greatest untold chapter in human history. It's absolutely insane in bonkers. Absolutely. I always think about how spectacular this subject is.

[2:26:32] It's not really that crazy of a subject. It's all pretty logically grounded. It all makes sense. And the crazy thing is that you've been taught to not believe things like this with a strict materialist worldview.

[2:26:44] Maybe that's contributed to it. Uh, you know, I don't know. I don't know the reasons why it's considered so crazy. I'm not going to get into the the cultural psychological aspects of it.

[2:26:54] Um, but you know, when I read back research that I've done, if I think that it's if I think, oh, this is also crazy, but how can it be true?

[2:27:02] Well, then I did something wrong with my research. Um, and that usually indicates that I need to go back and really thoroughly examine the sources that I that I utilized and ask myself if I'm believing it because I want to believe it or if I'm believing it because the source actually presents evidence that supports that.

[2:27:18] Um, I think that even if you do that to yourself constantly, and we talked about this earlier with like red teaming your research, even if you do that to yourself constantly, there's still plenty to work with here.

[2:27:29] Um, and that's why I say that it's not really that crazy to me, because at a certain point it just sort of clicked that if it feels crazy, it's probably because it's part of the disinformation.

[2:27:40] If it feels weird but logical, then that's where you're over the money, for me at least.

[2:27:49] Rob, I think I think you made your best point by saying that regardless of how spectacular the topic is, if once you have a finished intelligence or research product of your own, if it doesn't logically connect to itself, others, and and basically your conceptual thesis and hypothesis, then yeah, you're doing it wrong.

[2:28:07] I th I think that's a really wise thing you said there. Yeah.

[2:28:12] Non UAP related, but what was it like to meet the GOAT GSP? George St. Pierre is exactly the person uh he presents himself on in interviews. He's a wonderful, kind, mannered, gracious dude.

[2:28:23] And watching S4 with him uh and and doing the It's probably nothing tour with him was a uh life achievement moment. I love GSP. Uh also all great guy.

[2:28:34] And and we kind of talked about this this next question for UFO Truth Quest about the UFO too big to move, that it's a very actionable pursuit for somebody like Burleson to take, just due to the logistical concerns of having huge materials that you might not just be able to shuttle out of a hangar.

[2:28:48] And I knew I was gonna get asked about this, so I'm I'm gonna just answer and we'll move on. Has Lou contacted me personally? No, he has not. Uh, once that whole situation kind of uh blew up, I had two options.

[2:29:00] One was to engage in what I believed was uh an emotional provocation, or part two to publish my mitre video, get working on my next video. I chose part two because I want to talk about this topic.

[2:29:12] And in my opinion, I have a lot of valuable things to share and study with the UFO subject. Um, we we talked a little bit about the the Big Low podcast.

[2:29:22] I personally haven't watched anything but uh but clips. Have you gentlemen viewed whole episodes or kind of um been in in tune with the whole subject? No, I've been so busy.

[2:29:33] I've I listened, uh I'll be honest. I listened to the first couple of episodes, but honestly, after he recounted his meeting with Donald Trump, I had reason to call into question the seriousness of that whole plea and appeal.

[2:29:50] Because yeah, um basically, like just hearing it from from Bigelow, this is uh at least to me, it was kind of just like a little bit startling, a little bit shocking of, you know, Bigelow has spent so much money.

[2:30:04] He spent more probably than a lot like 99.9%, maybe anyone else in the country at this point on the UFO subject. And as someone that has been as close or has tried to get as close to the core research as possible, in his counsel to to Donald Trump, he tells Donald Trump like all you really have to do is just go up to a microphone, even if you're just boarding Air Force One, and just say, we're not alone in the universe.

[2:30:30] And that's that's disclosure enough. Just a blanket statement of we're not alone and that there's other intelligences and whatnot. Like I at least the way that Bigelow framed it in that podcast episode that I'm talking about, I like it it it's kind of to the same level of like frustration or the comment to kind of Gurb like when you had your interview with Avi and Hal Putoff of like there's kind of this viewpoint of like kind of letting the past like throwing out the past like the past is going to be the past and let's move on and let's do this new thing.

[2:31:03] It's like, no, screw that. Like we're not no no no no no like let's not we're not throwing out all this stuff. Like this isn't that's not what we asked.

[2:31:11] This isn't what disclosure means for any of us. It isn't just like a flippant announcement by Trump as he's boarding Air Force One. Like I I don't know. It was a lot of ridiculousness and it is kind of it has caused me to like not want to watch the next episodes essentially it's kind of turned off the whole thing.

[2:31:29] I'm gonna say something mean here and I apologize Bob Bigelow your institute for consciousness studies sent me those amazing books which I have on my shelf I appreciate it.

[2:31:39] But man that's thirsty like pick me type behavior um and you know there's a saying out there that you know don't let perfect be the enemy of good in this case don't let good enough be the enemy of right okay because don't don't settle for this you know oh just a soft disclosure speech no no no no no no no no no no you're talking about a president who likes to do things big if you were going to convince anybody to do something big it would be this guy.

[2:32:12] Yeah. So why are you settling for this pital EBS? Get out of here man come on that's defeatist behavior. Yeah and of course in the episode so far at least from what I'm aware the biggest elephant in the room which is Kona blue hasn't been uh addressed by Mr.

[2:32:28] Bigelow and that and that's going to be the most actionable uh discussion. And the second part to this question the Raid or raid redemption that's a little bit of a trick question you try to slip in there because that's the same movie one of the best Indonesian uh it's an Indonesian action movie one of the best of all time highly recommended guys we'll we'll have to put a pin in the questions and and continue next time I'm sorry we didn't get to them all but uh I would love this in my opinion has been one of our best lives um but I but I will have to hit the road and we'll put a pin in it and continue to just address these questions um next live which we'll probably do two weeks from now uh because we're we're actually getting in the good schedule.

[2:33:05] And I I would like to thank you gentlemen for joining and everybody here for joining. Um I I we always keep an eye on the chat and everybody well most people here except for that one guy who kept saying his own name is uh is a great chat.

[2:33:17] Everybody's on topic really providing a lot I really appreciate everybody showing up today. Do you guys want to say something before we got to hit the road shout out to them people appreciate y'all thanks y'all with with that being said uh not this upcoming Friday one after that I I'll have a a new project out that I'm I'm really excited for um besides that we'll do some lives we we might have a couple special guests visiting on the lives in the near future so that's gonna be fun too but thank you guys so much for joining us and uh you know we'll catch you on the next live wait did he leave are we here by ourselves did he leave and not end the stream dude do we control the