Jay Stratton — Weaponized podcast (Knapp/Corbell), May 28, 2025

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/HB5e4mgJX2Q
• Extraction: youtube_transcript.py (timestamps), 2026-05-28
• Significance: Stratton's first on-camera interview ("The Most Important Government UFO Investigator, Ever"). He discusses creating/directing AAWSAP, AATIP, and the UAP Task Force. Primary for ../../sources/stratton-uaptf-director.

---

[00:00:00.240] H secrets, cover-ups, and strange
[00:00:03.600] phenomena. UFOs and ideas that challenge
[00:00:06.400] reality itself. All these mysteries all
[00:00:09.440] this time. Are we ever going to get to
[00:00:11.120] the bottom of these? My name is George
[00:00:12.960] Knap. I dig into news stories that
[00:00:15.360] others can't or won't. I'm Jeremy
[00:00:17.680] Corbel, and for some reason, people tell
[00:00:19.840] me things they probably
[00:00:21.800] shouldn't. And this is Weaponized.
[00:00:24.640] Weaponiz. This is a flashback of episode
[00:00:28.000] 3 of Weaponized. an exclusive interview
[00:00:30.880] with Jay Stratton. It's worth repeating.
[00:00:33.760] Pay attention. Weaponized. We're back.
[00:00:36.640] What's on your mind?
[00:00:38.960] Oh my gosh. So much, man. Uh well, I
[00:00:42.079] guess we should start with uh a number
[00:00:44.480] of weeks ago, the new anticipated UFO
[00:00:48.559] report, official UFO report came out
[00:00:50.960] from the government. And you know,
[00:00:52.960] there's been a lot of reactions from,
[00:00:55.039] you know, dismissals in opinion articles
[00:00:58.000] in the New York Times to other people
[00:00:59.520] that that that got it right. But this
[00:01:01.199] was anticipated. It was supposed to come
[00:01:02.399] out on Halloween, right? 2022. Here we
[00:01:05.680] are in 2023 now. And uh finally, it's
[00:01:09.119] out. But so they call it the 2022 annual
[00:01:13.439] report on UAP, unidentified aerial
[00:01:16.159] phenomena. It's actually the 2023 report
[00:01:18.880] since it did not come out in 2022. and
[00:01:21.680] looking at it, you know, the first
[00:01:22.880] impression you get is nobody's going to
[00:01:24.400] wrench their back picking this thing up.
[00:01:26.400] It's only a couple of pages. They got a
[00:01:28.479] a title page and an a table of contents
[00:01:31.280] page and a couple of index pages at the
[00:01:33.439] back and terminology. Not much report
[00:01:36.159] here. I'm reminded of remember when
[00:01:38.240] light beer first came out, the slogan
[00:01:40.000] was taste great, less filling. That
[00:01:42.799] that's what comes to mind for this.
[00:01:44.320] Yeah. In defense of the depth of the
[00:01:46.960] report, it is a report of a classified
[00:01:50.159] report. It's a report that they did, a
[00:01:51.680] classified report. Um, but there are
[00:01:53.520] some really sneaky things that you
[00:01:55.040] brought to my attention that that were
[00:01:56.560] kind of done in this and I'd like kind
[00:01:58.079] of people to know about this from a news
[00:01:59.600] standpoint. Well, you know, I think
[00:02:01.600] there's a difference between this report
[00:02:03.439] and the one that came out in 2021, the
[00:02:05.840] the UAP task force report to Congress.
[00:02:08.000] It had 144 cases. It said 143 were
[00:02:11.920] unidentified. This one has a lot more
[00:02:14.160] cases. They added it's a 510 cases. So
[00:02:17.599] there's the good news is that the
[00:02:20.160] reporting system that has been
[00:02:22.000] implemented is working. They even got
[00:02:24.080] reports from the US Air Force. It says
[00:02:25.760] in here and the US Navy primarily. We
[00:02:28.000] don't know where these incidents
[00:02:29.840] happened. There's almost no detail
[00:02:31.760] whatsoever. We don't know if they were
[00:02:33.599] in space, whether they were under sea,
[00:02:36.160] whether they're over US airspace or the
[00:02:39.280] military encountered them somewhere on
[00:02:40.879] the world. Don't know what the size or
[00:02:42.800] shape or capabilities of these are. We
[00:02:45.280] know that there's an indication at least
[00:02:47.040] some of these cases are advanced
[00:02:48.720] technology that had capabilities that
[00:02:50.640] were really intriguing, but really no
[00:02:52.879] details at all. I think the UFO public
[00:02:55.519] was prepared to be underwhelmed. Maybe
[00:02:58.000] not quite this underwhelmed, but I mean
[00:03:00.560] overall there's some good stuff. The
[00:03:02.000] fact that they reported it at all that
[00:03:03.840] they're getting better at identifying
[00:03:06.080] what's truly unidentified and anomalous
[00:03:08.400] and what isn't is pretty good. But but
[00:03:11.120] we know we know that uh this is all
[00:03:14.319] domain. We know that these cases span
[00:03:16.720] from space air to sea. Now that's not
[00:03:19.440] something obviously that's put out to
[00:03:21.040] the public, but that's why it's called,
[00:03:22.959] you know, all domain. That's why it's
[00:03:24.480] called transmedium. So um I think people
[00:03:28.239] got this this title, you know, based on
[00:03:31.519] their bias like wrong. I think the
[00:03:33.840] title's right in the report. There's a a
[00:03:36.159] top of it, I think page five. Can we
[00:03:37.920] read that? I want people to hear what
[00:03:39.280] they said. You know, continued reporting
[00:03:42.799] and robust analysis are providing better
[00:03:45.920] fidelity on UAP events, but many cases
[00:03:50.000] remain unresolved. That's right in the
[00:03:52.319] report. That's the headline. That is the
[00:03:55.040] important part. And then people try to
[00:03:57.200] cherrypick and say all this stuff that
[00:03:59.519] we know is false. And they put it
[00:04:01.599] through major publications. you know,
[00:04:03.040] the mass media needs to uh look at and
[00:04:06.640] read everything to be informed. It
[00:04:09.040] doesn't always happen. It seems like
[00:04:10.640] there was a a concerted effort to water
[00:04:12.879] it down. I mean, this is the most
[00:04:14.400] exciting topic in the world. It's the
[00:04:16.959] biggest question in in human existence
[00:04:19.120] in in the history of civilization. Are
[00:04:21.199] we alone? It would change the world once
[00:04:23.360] we get a confirmation that there's
[00:04:25.680] another intelligence somewhere or
[00:04:27.199] they're out there or living among us
[00:04:29.040] here. It's huge. and they do their best
[00:04:31.600] to uh add this uh bureaucratic uh jingo
[00:04:36.080] type language that that uh junk it up
[00:04:39.040] and to dilute how interesting it really
[00:04:41.919] is to to make it as least interesting as
[00:04:44.400] possible it seemed like in in the terms
[00:04:46.080] that they use. Well, and also you think
[00:04:48.000] about like you know who are they that
[00:04:49.360] are doing this? If you just look at who
[00:04:51.759] writes certain types of articles, you
[00:04:54.479] get a sense that they're this is not
[00:04:56.240] reporting. These are people that are
[00:04:58.639] inserting certain types of topographical
[00:05:02.639] um you know premises that they come up
[00:05:05.440] with biases they come up with. So if we
[00:05:08.160] just report the news the line I just
[00:05:11.400] read that's the news that's what's
[00:05:13.840] important. So look uh I don't know what
[00:05:16.240] what UFOs are. I don't but I know that
[00:05:19.360] it's unexplained and that there's a
[00:05:21.360] mechanical aspect to Well, they made a
[00:05:23.120] point of of uh adding in a bunch of
[00:05:25.680] cases that I think were taken out of the
[00:05:28.560] original report. They said in this you
[00:05:30.479] think or you know well it says that they
[00:05:32.560] added in uhund and some cases that had
[00:05:35.840] been left out. So adding these back in
[00:05:38.560] increased the total, but it allowed them
[00:05:41.039] to say, "Oh gosh, a heck of a lot of
[00:05:42.560] these are balloons." A heck of a lot of
[00:05:44.240] these are drones, and a lot of it is
[00:05:46.240] trash, which is, you remember, the New
[00:05:48.320] York Times had this uh pre-bunking piece
[00:05:51.199] where they predicted, that's what this
[00:05:52.960] report is going to show. It's a bunch of
[00:05:54.400] drones. It's a bunch of balloons. Yes,
[00:05:56.320] drones exist. Balloons exist. We're
[00:05:58.400] aware of that. We're aware that birds
[00:06:00.320] fly in the sky. Uh that that's not
[00:06:02.880] anything new. I mean, UFOs 101, you
[00:06:07.039] learn that 90 to 95% of all UFO cases
[00:06:10.240] are explainable. If you get enough
[00:06:11.840] information, they're explainable. They
[00:06:13.199] are drones, their balloons, their
[00:06:14.960] planets, their clouds, things of that
[00:06:16.400] sort. That is the starting point for
[00:06:18.080] this conversation. We're aware that that
[00:06:20.319] cases can be explained. We're also aware
[00:06:22.240] that while 90% are explainable, nine out
[00:06:25.440] of 10 are not reported at all. Hold on,
[00:06:27.520] just back up. Um, [ __ ] record
[00:06:29.280] scratch. Okay. They excluded a bunch of
[00:06:33.280] cases because they were explainable. So,
[00:06:35.840] let's now work on the ones that are not.
[00:06:37.840] What you're saying is they brought those
[00:06:40.000] cases back in to be able to give these
[00:06:42.800] statistics. Yeah. It says it uh the ODNI
[00:06:46.479] preliminary assessment discussed 144 UAP
[00:06:50.080] reports and had an information cutoff
[00:06:52.400] date of 5 March 2021. Since then, Arrows
[00:06:56.080] received 247 new UAP reports, but an
[00:06:59.919] additional 119 UAP reports on events
[00:07:02.960] that occurred before March 5th, 2021,
[00:07:06.240] but were not included in that assessment
[00:07:08.800] have been discovered or reported. So,
[00:07:11.360] they took them that have been discarded
[00:07:13.440] and put them back in and allows them to
[00:07:15.680] sort of dilute uh the overall impact of
[00:07:18.319] this by saying, "Oh gosh, these are
[00:07:19.680] explainable." And we know who discarded
[00:07:22.080] them. We know the people that discarded
[00:07:23.759] them so that they could focus on the
[00:07:25.199] true UAP mystery. And this was a slight
[00:07:28.000] of hand. Is that what you're saying?
[00:07:29.360] Well, it's it's a little it's a little
[00:07:31.280] deceptive, I think, you know, by adding
[00:07:33.120] those back in that they already know are
[00:07:34.800] explainable. The reason they were kicked
[00:07:36.160] out is because they're explainable. Is
[00:07:37.680] it fair to say that there's a
[00:07:39.680] minimization process that's occurring to
[00:07:41.680] to the public? They're trying to
[00:07:43.039] minimize some of the gravity of this to
[00:07:45.680] the public. Is that fair to say? Yeah.
[00:07:47.039] Well, they brought back in cases that
[00:07:48.639] are explainable. They dumbed down the
[00:07:51.039] language, made it as clunky as possible
[00:07:53.440] and as least interesting as possible,
[00:07:56.080] tried to make it less dramatic, uh
[00:07:58.000] almost as if, hey, there's really
[00:07:59.360] nothing to see here, folks. We did our
[00:08:00.960] duty. We got this report. We now have
[00:08:02.720] processes uh in place that where it
[00:08:05.199] makes it easier to report this stuff,
[00:08:06.720] but we're explaining it. Don't you worry
[00:08:08.479] your pretty little heads kind of thing.
[00:08:10.240] Um and and one of the reasons we know
[00:08:12.560] about that process for the first report
[00:08:15.199] is because you and I were able to talk
[00:08:17.520] to the chief scientist for the UAP task
[00:08:20.240] force. That's right. And that's right.
[00:08:21.520] He's a guy who is well known to our
[00:08:23.599] listeners, to viewers uh from
[00:08:26.720] television, Dr. Travis Taylor. Has been
[00:08:29.199] on Ancient Aliens a number of times.
[00:08:31.039] He's been on The Secret Skinwalker Ranch
[00:08:32.959] of the past couple of years. a well
[00:08:35.200] known as a a a scientist who is
[00:08:37.839] interested in the UFO and related
[00:08:39.599] mysteries. What most people don't know
[00:08:42.240] is that he was serving as the chief
[00:08:44.480] scientist for the UAP task force. We
[00:08:46.560] learned that and were floored by it on a
[00:08:49.120] trip we made to Alabama last uh last
[00:08:52.160] fall or last summer. I I I learned about
[00:08:54.959] it before, but you reported on it first.
[00:08:57.360] You told people about that and it kind
[00:08:59.360] of threw people for a loop because they
[00:09:00.959] know him from TV, they know him from
[00:09:02.399] this, but look, this guy's a serious
[00:09:03.839] scientist and he's done a lot of work
[00:09:05.120] and he was specifically brought in and
[00:09:07.519] tasked because he had certain skill sets
[00:09:09.760] that would be good for this job. Um, and
[00:09:12.160] we know who brought him in and it's so
[00:09:14.800] interesting, man. I I want to get to
[00:09:16.399] something. We had this crazy trip. You
[00:09:18.480] want to start talking about that? Yeah.
[00:09:20.160] All right. For anybody that that doesn't
[00:09:22.240] know mine and George's uh friendship and
[00:09:24.880] and and working together once in a while
[00:09:28.160] I get some call from George and it's
[00:09:30.080] like um pack your bags we got to go we
[00:09:34.640] got to go get film something we're doing
[00:09:36.160] an interview and you know just
[00:09:38.240] immediately I know oh gosh so this this
[00:09:40.640] is the thing now so my perspective I've
[00:09:43.440] actually never told you this but my
[00:09:44.880] perspective was okay George has
[00:09:48.399] hopefully um a really important
[00:09:51.040] interview to hear from somebody that
[00:09:53.680] could shed light to the American public
[00:09:55.519] who's never gone on camera and this is
[00:09:58.560] kind of the background you kind of gave
[00:09:59.920] me. You know that this could happen, but
[00:10:02.560] there's also an event going on. Before
[00:10:04.480] we get to that, I'm just like, okay, let
[00:10:06.800] me adjust my life to like leave in a few
[00:10:09.279] days. I I needed a second camera. I'm I
[00:10:12.800] don't even know how to do aperture,
[00:10:14.160] right? You know, professional filmmaker.
[00:10:16.000] I don't even know how to do this stuff,
[00:10:17.279] right? I I knew this was important. And
[00:10:18.880] I was like, I need somebody. I called up
[00:10:21.839] my buddy Niles Harrison. He's laying on
[00:10:24.560] the beach in Mexico, right, where he
[00:10:26.720] just bought a house. And I'm like, I
[00:10:28.880] need you on a plane right now. Just I
[00:10:32.079] need to get you to Vegas. And he's like,
[00:10:34.160] well, I got all my stuff and we have to
[00:10:36.000] put it in storage. This dude, Niles
[00:10:38.399] Harrison, dude, you are my idol, man. He
[00:10:40.640] packed everything up and in two days he
[00:10:44.160] landed in Vegas to meet us to be the DP
[00:10:47.200] or the backup for us. the only guy I
[00:10:48.959] could trust, you know, and I I still
[00:10:51.200] don't know what the mission is, so I
[00:10:52.720] can't tell him the mission, you know?
[00:10:54.240] So, it's just like this fun kind of
[00:10:56.079] experience where I'm like, we get to
[00:10:57.440] Vegas, I'm like, what's going on? You
[00:10:59.279] know, and we hop right on a flight. So,
[00:11:01.360] just so you know, I mean, it was it was
[00:11:02.800] it was crazy, man. This is how it works
[00:11:04.399] with you and me is sometimes I call you,
[00:11:06.560] sometimes you call me, and it it's time
[00:11:08.079] to go. Well, the premise for this, there
[00:11:10.399] were there were multiple reasons to make
[00:11:12.000] this trip. Uh, Huntsville, Alabama is uh
[00:11:15.120] a defense hub. A lot of interesting
[00:11:17.360] defense contractors have have grown up
[00:11:19.279] around there. Of course, it's Rocket
[00:11:20.560] City. It's where the it's where the
[00:11:22.240] birthplace of the US space program
[00:11:24.000] really was. Warner von Braun and his
[00:11:25.680] team were all down there. I didn't even
[00:11:26.959] know where we were going. Like, you
[00:11:28.560] know, so you're now you're saying it,
[00:11:29.920] but like so you tell me, okay, we're
[00:11:31.839] going to Huntsville. I'm like, Hunts
[00:11:33.120] where? And you're like, Huntsville. I'm
[00:11:34.480] like, why? Well, in a sense, you know, I
[00:11:36.480] hate to admit this, but Huntsville has
[00:11:38.560] become sort of the de facto UFO research
[00:11:41.200] capital of America. For a long time, for
[00:11:43.440] the past 30 years, it's been Las Vegas
[00:11:45.440] because of Robert Bigalow, his NIDS
[00:11:48.000] organization that became BASS that was
[00:11:50.320] headquarters for the OAP program, which
[00:11:52.800] that's a lot of acronyms, but that
[00:11:54.720] program was the largest UFO
[00:11:57.040] investigation ever funded by the US
[00:11:58.880] government that we know of. And uh so
[00:12:01.600] because of Bigalow and Colum Keller and
[00:12:03.839] their colleagues in Las Vegas, Las Vegas
[00:12:06.480] was a hub for this research. I think
[00:12:09.279] Huntsville might now have that title
[00:12:11.279] because of all the people who are
[00:12:13.040] concentrated there. The defense
[00:12:14.639] contractors that have grown up around
[00:12:16.800] the US rocket program. The US Army's
[00:12:20.399] Redstone Arsenal is there. Uh in
[00:12:22.560] addition to the defense contractors and
[00:12:24.959] the rocket programs and a lot of
[00:12:26.880] government agencies. Um there is also an
[00:12:29.920] UFO organization SCU the uh scientific
[00:12:33.680] coalition for UAP studies headed by a
[00:12:36.079] guy named Rich Hoffman. He's put
[00:12:37.440] together a team of scientists. They've
[00:12:39.360] done some great analyses on on key
[00:12:41.880] cases, the Puerto Rico UFO that was
[00:12:45.360] looked like a trans medium for for one
[00:12:47.680] thing and it they did a tic-tac paper.
[00:12:49.920] They're doing some great work. But they
[00:12:51.440] have a annual conference. I've been
[00:12:53.440] invited to go to each one of them and
[00:12:55.200] finally I wanted to go because um they
[00:12:58.000] not only had a really great lineup of
[00:12:59.959] speakers, but I had a feeling that the
[00:13:02.560] audience might be more interesting than
[00:13:04.240] the people who are up there on the
[00:13:05.600] desks. given the speeches. Okay, so to
[00:13:08.000] back up, so there is, you know, there
[00:13:10.079] are these UFO study groups, but this is
[00:13:12.079] one that really focuses on the the
[00:13:14.320] science and technology and it gets great
[00:13:16.399] speakers and members and we know people
[00:13:18.320] just come to quietly, silently listen
[00:13:20.480] that they might be interesting people
[00:13:21.839] because it's in Rocket City, but I mean,
[00:13:24.399] you had an idea that we were going to
[00:13:26.000] get a specific interview, but at this
[00:13:27.279] point, you're telling me we're going to
[00:13:28.800] this conference. It's a UFO conference.
[00:13:30.480] I'm like, "Come on, George." And you're
[00:13:31.600] like, "No, no, it's it's a cool one.
[00:13:33.120] It's like science." And I'm like, "All
[00:13:34.880] right." I texted uh Ryan Graves, you
[00:13:37.279] know, the the the the fighter pilot that
[00:13:39.600] everybody knows now, and I just wanted
[00:13:42.160] to get a beer with him because we had
[00:13:43.440] talked so much. And so that was I was
[00:13:45.279] like, "Okay, I'm coming. I'll meet with
[00:13:47.120] Ryan. We're going to have a beer." And
[00:13:49.360] that didn't end up happening. We ended
[00:13:50.800] up missing each other two ships in the
[00:13:52.399] night. But we met a number of really
[00:13:55.920] interesting people and were able to get
[00:13:59.839] some first ever interviews with people
[00:14:02.560] that that that were going to come
[00:14:04.000] forward and also recorded with and
[00:14:07.040] talked with individuals who people don't
[00:14:09.120] know yet, but are also critical and
[00:14:11.360] essential to the UFO puzzle and what's
[00:14:14.079] going on within government and Congress
[00:14:16.880] and different intelligence agencies
[00:14:18.880] looking at this. I mean, just straight
[00:14:20.160] up, it was fascinating. And we had fun
[00:14:23.360] and we're driving in a car. You think
[00:14:24.800] I'm going to kill us? You know, we're
[00:14:26.240] making jokes about green pyramids.
[00:14:29.360] Our primary concern is getting there
[00:14:31.199] alive, which is not a given
[00:14:33.560] in light of the fact that Jeremy is the
[00:14:36.000] person driving
[00:14:37.839] and the navigator. And the navigator.
[00:14:40.920] Yeah. Hopefully, we arrive in one piece.
[00:14:46.880] Oh, [ __ ] Look, it was a little working
[00:14:48.720] guy with a goddamn pyramid. Oh, is that
[00:14:51.040] a pyramid or triangle? That's Or is that
[00:14:53.040] just a drone? That's construction work.
[00:14:55.360] So, that's not a pyramid that you see
[00:14:56.959] right there. Well, it's a guy building a
[00:15:00.440] pyramid for the guy building the
[00:15:02.240] pyramid. So, is it like the government
[00:15:03.519] building a pyramid? Would that be
[00:15:04.959] accurate to say?
[00:15:07.199] You could uh infer that perhaps. Dang,
[00:15:09.279] I'm going to. And off record, I [ __ ]
[00:15:12.720] drive.
[00:15:14.959] that we had a we had a lot of fun. But
[00:15:18.480] what happens next, George? I mean, this
[00:15:20.160] is a really neat moment for us. So, I I
[00:15:22.800] had hoped that we'd be able to land this
[00:15:25.279] really important interview with someone
[00:15:26.800] who has never spoken on camera before,
[00:15:28.959] has never interacted with the media in a
[00:15:31.920] way where he could be quoted. Someone I
[00:15:33.839] have known for a long time. You
[00:15:35.279] protected his name. I could never
[00:15:37.120] mention his name. I, you know, I've I've
[00:15:38.959] known about him and then I got to know
[00:15:41.519] him. Mhm. Uh I happen to know that he
[00:15:44.079] loves Lindo Mishuakan, this Mexican
[00:15:45.920] restaurant in Las Vegas, and has been
[00:15:48.000] known to hang out there. He's uh he's
[00:15:50.560] worked with the Nids guys with Bigalow
[00:15:53.360] and Kellaher and and some of those
[00:15:55.120] folks. We'll go into more detail on that
[00:15:57.199] in a moment, but there he is. Uh we now
[00:16:00.320] know that he had relocated to
[00:16:01.839] Huntsville. One of my favorite stories
[00:16:04.560] of of last year that we produced for KAS
[00:16:07.199] and Mystery Wire was about this company,
[00:16:09.040] this defense contractor in Huntsville,
[00:16:10.959] Alabama that put out an amazing,
[00:16:13.680] seemingly innocuous release about two
[00:16:16.959] men they had hired. Actually, there were
[00:16:18.639] two releases. The one was a an
[00:16:21.040] announcement that they had hired a guy
[00:16:22.480] named Jay Stratton, who had been a
[00:16:24.800] lifelong intelligence officer, had
[00:16:27.040] worked at the Pentagon in very high
[00:16:28.880] level positions for a number of years.
[00:16:31.199] And I was astonished to see his name
[00:16:34.880] uh released uh in the public because
[00:16:37.360] it's been forbidden that I could ever
[00:16:39.279] mention it. So that's the guy. That's
[00:16:40.800] the guy J Strat. J Strat. So the world
[00:16:43.040] doesn't really know J Strat. I mean some
[00:16:44.639] people figured it out. There's been
[00:16:46.079] little things now that have come out.
[00:16:48.160] But at that time you had kind of held
[00:16:51.040] back. So but the qu the big question is
[00:16:53.120] who is J Stratton? J Stratton. So if
[00:16:56.480] anyone who's read the book Skinwalkers
[00:16:58.639] at the Pentagon written with Dr. James
[00:17:00.560] Latsky and Colin Kellaher. Uh there are
[00:17:03.040] references to this guy in there. They
[00:17:05.199] don't we don't use the name Jay Stratton
[00:17:06.880] use a different name but uh references
[00:17:09.199] to a highlevel guy a really credible
[00:17:11.839] intelligence officer who was involved in
[00:17:15.120] key uh positions in these UFO programs.
[00:17:19.319] OAP at the UAP task force and Arrow. He
[00:17:24.000] is the only person who is involved in
[00:17:26.480] all of those who is sort of the common
[00:17:28.400] link uh from the start of OAP through
[00:17:31.039] the creation of Arrow and continues I
[00:17:33.039] think to to advise the folks who are
[00:17:34.880] involved with that. There's only one guy
[00:17:36.320] that's been there for that whole trip
[00:17:38.320] who has worked with OAP and then Lou
[00:17:40.799] Alzando with ATIP and and created in
[00:17:43.760] essence the UAP task force who got the
[00:17:46.559] government to shift from using the term
[00:17:48.720] UFO to UAP whose work we'll talk about
[00:17:52.559] some examples of it. Well, back up. You
[00:17:54.640] you just said J Stratton did you just
[00:17:57.120] say J Stratton created the UAP task
[00:17:59.200] force? Yeah. Okay. So that would explain
[00:18:01.600] to me why numerous military active
[00:18:05.280] military
[00:18:06.919] individuals were so stoked to see Jay
[00:18:11.120] Stratton's name come out. And I said
[00:18:13.679] why? And they're like because this is
[00:18:16.559] the one individual who is credible uh
[00:18:20.720] military intelligence who's worked DIA
[00:18:23.039] who's worked in tons of programs in OI
[00:18:25.760] all these different intelligence
[00:18:27.400] agencies that has pushed not only to be
[00:18:32.080] honest and true to the American public
[00:18:34.080] but to create an interface so that we
[00:18:36.559] could honestly bring forward to the
[00:18:39.280] American public what we know and don't
[00:18:41.360] know about the UFO or what he helped
[00:18:44.679] systematized UAP process. And the reason
[00:18:47.600] he said he did that was to
[00:18:49.720] destigmatize reporting of UFOs. So this
[00:18:52.720] guy is trying to destigmatize reporting
[00:18:55.520] of UFOs, trying to systematize it so
[00:18:58.640] that reporting becomes better as a
[00:19:00.480] learning process. As bumpy as it is,
[00:19:02.559] people would put reports in from, let's
[00:19:04.160] say, the Nimmits or any of these
[00:19:05.679] encounters. They wouldn't hear back.
[00:19:07.360] They thought it got lost in the ether.
[00:19:08.799] They didn't want to get mental checks.
[00:19:10.640] But he made it cool to report and and
[00:19:13.120] and learned along the way. I respect
[00:19:14.720] that. So a lot of military people are
[00:19:16.160] like, "That is so amazing to get him to
[00:19:18.799] talk because he's talking for us. We
[00:19:20.640] don't have voices. He's got a voice for
[00:19:23.200] us." So I just want to tell you that's
[00:19:24.320] what I've gotten a lot of. So that's who
[00:19:26.000] we're talking about. We're talking about
[00:19:27.200] a a very serious, credible individual
[00:19:29.919] who's worked in intelligence capacity
[00:19:32.080] who's done the right thing. and he's
[00:19:33.919] done the right thing in a way to help
[00:19:36.360] destigmatize and communicate with the
[00:19:38.559] American public so we don't have the
[00:19:40.559] same problems as project blue book the
[00:19:43.280] cover what what in his own words what
[00:19:46.160] Roswell did to the situation the the
[00:19:48.640] lies from our government so I I think
[00:19:50.720] it's so now I know we might be
[00:19:53.799] interviewing this guy and that's really
[00:19:56.720] cool first interview I I learned that he
[00:19:58.880] was going to be there that he and his
[00:20:00.559] colleague Travis Taylor were going to be
[00:20:02.160] at this event this SCU conference.
[00:20:04.320] They're going to be in the audience. It
[00:20:05.919] was sort of the coming out party in a
[00:20:07.679] sense. Both had been hired to work by
[00:20:10.000] Radiance Technologies and and the
[00:20:12.480] releases when they were each of them was
[00:20:14.480] hired. Jay was hired first and then he
[00:20:16.960] convinced Radiance that hey, Travis
[00:20:19.120] Taylor is a really qualified guy. He's
[00:20:21.919] the guy I'd like to work with here. And
[00:20:24.080] they hired him as well. And the releases
[00:20:26.080] for both of those guys were astonishing
[00:20:27.840] in that unlike most defense contractors,
[00:20:31.679] they don't want to talk about UFOs. They
[00:20:33.600] don't want to mention it. They don't
[00:20:34.799] want to give it any credence. Even some
[00:20:36.320] of them who probably have deeper roots
[00:20:38.880] with the topic than they care to admit.
[00:20:40.799] Uh they they don't they don't highlight
[00:20:42.480] it. But this Radiance technology, those
[00:20:45.200] releases both bragged about in essence
[00:20:47.840] they highlighted the fact that both
[00:20:49.280] these guys had worked on UFO programs
[00:20:51.520] for the US government. It was as if they
[00:20:53.120] were saying, "This is no longer a
[00:20:54.960] forbidden topic. We're we want to be
[00:20:57.440] involved in it at every level. In fact,
[00:20:59.760] if you got some UFO contracts to give
[00:21:01.919] out to private industry, we're ready to
[00:21:04.000] go." I I think I can get away with
[00:21:06.320] saying this. I think it's fine. But so
[00:21:08.080] that so we filmed at Radiance. That's
[00:21:09.760] okay. You did a news report. You know,
[00:21:11.919] how cool to be shown what I was we were
[00:21:14.480] able to be, you know, shown. We couldn't
[00:21:16.320] film what they're doing there to some
[00:21:19.039] degree. We were able I mean obviously
[00:21:20.480] they have offices at Wright Patterson
[00:21:22.559] for their technology company but with
[00:21:25.280] what they could show us we had to get
[00:21:26.960] like the special badges which we
[00:21:28.400] couldn't even photograph you know all
[00:21:29.840] that stuff do you remember when I was
[00:21:32.000] pushing them I was like that's a skiff
[00:21:33.919] let me see inside the skiff I don't
[00:21:35.280] believe you let me see inside the skiff
[00:21:36.559] and everybody's like don't do that
[00:21:37.760] Jeremy is not going to show you and then
[00:21:39.360] they're finally like okay you can peek
[00:21:41.360] inside the door but but don't say a word
[00:21:44.159] you know there's something going on in
[00:21:45.679] there but it's okay it's okay to I think
[00:21:47.919] I Yeah I didn't believe him. Opened that
[00:21:51.039] door. Holy cow. I mean, there was some
[00:21:53.600] cool stuff going on. Bam. Close the
[00:21:55.520] door. It was nice of them to let me uh
[00:21:57.600] peek in just to verify. You know what?
[00:21:59.760] It's a cool company in a lot of ways.
[00:22:02.159] It's owned by the employees. The
[00:22:03.840] employees owned really. Everybody
[00:22:05.440] benefits from if they when they do well.
[00:22:07.600] They have offices in 17 states. Nearly
[00:22:10.320] all of them are attached to or within US
[00:22:12.880] Air Force bases. So, they're at Wright
[00:22:14.400] Patterson. They're at Nellis. two bases
[00:22:17.039] that we know have a long history of
[00:22:18.559] involvement with the subject that is
[00:22:19.919] near and dear to our heart and and so
[00:22:21.919] they do serious work. You can see hints
[00:22:24.400] of it on their website, the kind of
[00:22:25.840] things they do, but essentially that
[00:22:27.440] company does reverse engineering work.
[00:22:30.080] Um, which in the UFO world at that term
[00:22:33.440] is laden with with hidden meaning. You
[00:22:35.679] know, it suggests taking things apart to
[00:22:38.000] figure out how they work, things that we
[00:22:39.679] did not build. Um, but they do that. And
[00:22:42.640] Jay Stratton who went to work for him
[00:22:45.120] specialized in reverse engineering and
[00:22:47.200] not just technology, not just systems,
[00:22:49.919] machinery, but in situations. When he
[00:22:52.559] worked for the DIA, he would reverse
[00:22:54.960] engineer potential threats, figure out
[00:22:57.440] who might be flying what, what their
[00:22:59.280] capabilities were, and what kind of
[00:23:01.280] systems we might need need to counter
[00:23:03.120] that. I mean, he was he he was a top
[00:23:05.760] expert in that kind of work. And uh
[00:23:07.840] we'll allow him to maybe explain some of
[00:23:10.720] the jobs that he held at the Pentagon.
[00:23:13.280] Definitely. And and additionally uh I
[00:23:16.720] you know I also want to be clear we
[00:23:18.080] weren't shown anything we weren't
[00:23:19.280] supposed to see. It was you know but it
[00:23:20.559] was just neat that we got that tour and
[00:23:22.240] be able to see in certain rooms. Um,
[00:23:24.320] obviously they keep a real kind of lock
[00:23:26.000] and key, but it was I just got to say it
[00:23:28.000] was such a cool experience for a company
[00:23:30.640] like that to be so open for the first
[00:23:32.799] time with journalists coming in there.
[00:23:34.799] And even the the president sat down and
[00:23:36.640] did an interview and you did a report on
[00:23:38.080] it. You know, it really shows that like
[00:23:40.240] their their interest in in the reverse
[00:23:42.320] engineerings of things. I'm sure they
[00:23:43.840] would love to have some of the goodies
[00:23:46.080] and they would be a great company. Oh,
[00:23:47.360] we ask him. I said it. You know, all
[00:23:48.799] right, you hired Jay Stratton, you hired
[00:23:51.280] Dr. Travis Taylor. Uh, it sounds like
[00:23:54.880] maybe you guys are taking apart a flying
[00:23:56.720] saucer or building one. And they kind of
[00:23:58.320] joked about it. Well, yeah, we'd kind of
[00:24:00.080] like to do that if we got a chance to.
[00:24:02.080] Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so
[00:24:03.760] compartmentalized with a company like
[00:24:05.360] that. The president even told us it's
[00:24:07.280] like he has tons of projects going on
[00:24:09.520] that he has not read into because
[00:24:11.440] that's, you know, that's how it's
[00:24:13.000] stovepiped. So, so with this uh company
[00:24:16.320] out there and you and I going out there
[00:24:18.000] and getting people were approaching us
[00:24:20.480] that were told to approach us and that
[00:24:23.440] was really interesting to me because it
[00:24:25.760] was happening so much at that thing that
[00:24:27.200] there were people in the audience that
[00:24:28.799] people still don't know who they are and
[00:24:30.960] and they trusted us with with numerous
[00:24:32.880] things which will be coming public at
[00:24:34.880] some point. Yeah. Well, we went there
[00:24:37.039] with some goals in mind, specific goals.
[00:24:39.279] And talking to to Jay Stratton and to
[00:24:41.520] Travis Taylor would would have been if
[00:24:43.200] that was all we got, that would be
[00:24:44.960] awesome. Uh, we didn't know for sure if
[00:24:46.960] that's was going to happen, but that's
[00:24:48.240] what we went there to do. And then we
[00:24:49.520] end up meeting a bunch of other people
[00:24:51.520] who introduced themselves and uh began a
[00:24:54.320] dialogue with us that I think will will
[00:24:56.559] bear fruit throughout this whole year,
[00:24:58.559] you know, and I I was like, "Okay, you
[00:25:00.559] know, we're going to film this." I got
[00:25:01.840] my buddy all the way from, you know, he
[00:25:03.360] he flew in from Mexico and here we go.
[00:25:05.679] And then I was like, "Oh, no, man. We're
[00:25:07.600] not recording in a hotel room." I I was
[00:25:09.840] like so upset about that, you know,
[00:25:11.360] visually. But we had to do it kind of
[00:25:13.840] private. We needed to make sure that it
[00:25:15.679] was uh the information was was well
[00:25:18.320] documented. You know, another thing that
[00:25:20.240] J so when we when we started the
[00:25:22.400] interview, something that that Jay said
[00:25:24.720] kind of right away that was so
[00:25:25.840] interesting to me was that OAP it from
[00:25:30.240] the very onset was technological. It was
[00:25:33.480] technology. It was about discovery of
[00:25:36.440] disruptive technologies and and you look
[00:25:38.880] at all the durs and the reports and
[00:25:40.720] obviously they're thinking
[00:25:42.520] forwardlooking 30 50 years from now.
[00:25:45.120] What could be a disruptive technology?
[00:25:48.080] no matter where it's from, what what
[00:25:50.400] could be a disruptive technology. And
[00:25:52.000] then he said, but look um where the
[00:25:54.720] evidence led is that there were there
[00:25:57.200] were other things that we learned. There
[00:25:59.760] was a disruptive technology aim, but
[00:26:02.720] that there were a lot of other things
[00:26:04.159] they learned when they were studying
[00:26:06.080] things like the ranch. So, so that
[00:26:08.559] really threw me for a loop that um you
[00:26:11.120] know something like OAP came in with the
[00:26:12.960] idea of identifying future threats and
[00:26:15.919] then realized, wow, there's a lot more
[00:26:17.520] going on. He talked about that in his
[00:26:19.279] interview with us. So, phone is off.
[00:26:22.159] That's just as far as ringer. Yeah. Oh,
[00:26:23.840] yeah. Yeah. Always off and alarms are
[00:26:25.600] off. The cameras are roll. I'm just
[00:26:26.960] giving this little AB common marker.
[00:26:29.760] Okay.
[00:26:32.799] Jay, have you done an on camera
[00:26:34.640] interview before? Have you done
[00:26:36.159] interviews before? So, this is a first.
[00:26:40.080] I mean, your world is the black world,
[00:26:42.559] classified stuff, right? Can you give me
[00:26:44.480] broad strokes of your career, the
[00:26:46.000] highlights, and the kind of secure
[00:26:48.000] program that you worked on? Sure. Uh,
[00:26:51.279] you know, I started military. I was a
[00:26:53.919] full-time reservist with the Air Force.
[00:26:56.000] And then I moved up to Maryland to work
[00:26:59.679] at Pax River uh to do weapons
[00:27:01.840] integration with the F-18 uh flight
[00:27:04.240] test. uh out of Navier. Uh and from
[00:27:07.200] there I went to the Office of Naval
[00:27:08.480] Intelligence uh where I was recruited to
[00:27:10.240] be an airspace engineer working with
[00:27:11.760] them uh to look at you know really apply
[00:27:14.159] the the blue knowledge as we call it uh
[00:27:16.400] and apply it to the red and and
[00:27:18.640] potential adversaries and write up
[00:27:21.039] reports on what I think foreign
[00:27:22.880] capabilities can do or not do. Right. In
[00:27:24.799] a sense reverse engineering. Absolutely.
[00:27:27.919] uh and you take that uh into to DIA uh
[00:27:32.640] went over to Defense Intelligence Agency
[00:27:35.039] uh to work in the Defense Warning Office
[00:27:37.120] uh where I was applying the same
[00:27:38.960] knowledge but at a higher level uh and
[00:27:41.440] more kind of orchestrating the intel
[00:27:43.039] community at that point. There's a term
[00:27:44.640] we use validation. Whereas if you're
[00:27:47.440] building an F-22 or you're building a
[00:27:49.120] joint strike fighter, you know, you're
[00:27:51.200] really kind of designing that to counter
[00:27:53.039] a potential threat. And that potential
[00:27:55.360] threat needs to be a validated threat
[00:27:57.679] because uh what we can't have happen is
[00:28:00.720] uh a Lockheed Martin or Boeing, you
[00:28:03.360] know, spending tons of of money against
[00:28:06.000] a threat that they they say exists.
[00:28:08.080] Well, the government needs to say it
[00:28:09.440] exists. So, it's kind of a contractual
[00:28:11.120] thing of you're building to the
[00:28:12.799] validated threat. And that's what I did
[00:28:14.559] at at the Defense Intelligence Agency
[00:28:16.640] along with also having a science and
[00:28:18.080] technical intelligence hat with the
[00:28:19.600] Defense Warning Office uh to look across
[00:28:22.000] the the spectrum at technologies,
[00:28:23.919] specifically air and space that are uh
[00:28:27.279] leading edge uh things that could could
[00:28:29.919] be disruptive and challenge us uh in the
[00:28:33.120] future. you know, we're looking 10, 20,
[00:28:34.720] and sometimes 50 years out depending on
[00:28:36.640] on the topic and trying to to provide
[00:28:38.880] the Department of Defense and and across
[00:28:40.799] the intel community a better
[00:28:42.000] understanding of some of those potential
[00:28:44.080] disruptive threats so that we could uh
[00:28:46.320] get ahead of the game and counter them.
[00:28:49.360] And when you're at DIA, I I'm ignorant
[00:28:51.360] of this stuff, but you're a Navy guy who
[00:28:52.960] then goes to work for DIA. Does that
[00:28:54.480] mean you're a Navy guy within DIA or
[00:28:56.399] you're always a Navy guy? So, when I
[00:28:58.240] transitioned to Office Naval
[00:28:59.279] Intelligence, I became civil service. So
[00:29:01.679] I'm a Navy employee uh with the national
[00:29:04.080] intel community. So your service centers
[00:29:06.559] office nal intelligence NASC national
[00:29:08.399] air and space intel center the missile
[00:29:10.399] and space intel center is a subcomponent
[00:29:12.399] of the DIA that's here in Huntsville.
[00:29:15.440] And uh then you have the MCIA which is
[00:29:17.919] the Marine Corps intelligence activity
[00:29:19.279] and then finally the National Ground
[00:29:20.799] Intel Center at Charlottesville. Those
[00:29:22.480] are the four what we call service
[00:29:23.840] centers. And now you're going to have
[00:29:24.880] one for the Space Force colllocated at
[00:29:27.039] at Wright Patter Air Force Base. Those
[00:29:29.520] are uh service centers that support the
[00:29:32.480] analysis that supports the Navy or
[00:29:34.399] supports the Marine Corps, supports the
[00:29:35.760] Army, but in reality they are all funded
[00:29:38.000] by the the director national
[00:29:39.840] intelligence now the OD and II as as
[00:29:42.399] national intel funded uh billets that uh
[00:29:46.080] are able to support. So you know people
[00:29:48.960] refer to O and I the office intelligence
[00:29:51.039] as the Navy's intel center. The reality
[00:29:52.960] is it's the national maritime intel
[00:29:55.120] center where we are the threat at the
[00:29:57.120] maritime and and and when you think of
[00:29:59.679] navy too right you got to remember that
[00:30:02.159] navy is the navy but the navy also has
[00:30:04.880] an air force and the navy has an army
[00:30:07.919] and the navy's army has an air force
[00:30:10.240] right so it's a big service uh so with
[00:30:14.480] that oi has a big big uh footprint and
[00:30:17.039] and a big concern but in all of that uh
[00:30:19.840] the key and bringing up that the ODNI
[00:30:23.039] funds the force service centers is very
[00:30:25.120] important because back to the threat
[00:30:26.720] that justifies the building of new
[00:30:28.640] systems and and such right the air force
[00:30:30.799] really wants a program they might go to
[00:30:32.880] Nasik and say we need a threat to drive
[00:30:35.279] that program and we are funded by the
[00:30:37.520] national side of the house so we can say
[00:30:39.440] well we don't take orders from the air
[00:30:40.640] force in that regard we take orders from
[00:30:42.080] the navy so we can you know this is the
[00:30:44.799] assessment right that's that's driven
[00:30:46.399] out of tradecraftraft and and that's the
[00:30:48.080] answer it's kind of independent you know
[00:30:49.919] it's very independent and and And and a
[00:30:51.840] lot of people don't realize that, you
[00:30:52.880] know, they look at those service intel
[00:30:54.480] centers as kind of parts of the Air
[00:30:56.000] Force, parts of the Army. They are on
[00:30:58.000] paper, but in reality, you know, the
[00:31:00.000] majority of their budget comes from the
[00:31:01.520] national. You you're so you're you have
[00:31:03.600] high security clearances. You're you see
[00:31:05.600] sensitive stuff as sensitive as it gets.
[00:31:07.440] All through my career. Uh so so from
[00:31:09.679] there, you know, DIA went back to ONI to
[00:31:11.600] be the head of air warfare. Really, I
[00:31:13.039] was the deputy initially. Uh then the um
[00:31:16.640] fleeted up, as we say, to be the
[00:31:18.320] director of air warfare for ONI. Uh when
[00:31:20.559] I first went back uh we had I had
[00:31:22.640] everything in and that air that touches
[00:31:24.159] air in the Navy. So science and
[00:31:25.760] technical side as well as the
[00:31:26.880] operational and tactics side we call it.
[00:31:28.960] Uh Spear uh is kind of the the nickname
[00:31:31.760] for or the the name that that
[00:31:33.760] organization uses. Uh we've got a
[00:31:36.880] history all the way back to Desert
[00:31:38.080] Storm. Uh if you watch Top Gun
[00:31:40.159] originally, Charlie that's briefing the
[00:31:42.240] MiGs. Uh she was based on a spear
[00:31:44.720] analyst. So the group that I led has
[00:31:46.799] that kind of of pedigree of of talking
[00:31:49.519] about how capabilities operate. So you
[00:31:52.720] know your national intel uh centers at
[00:31:54.880] NASC for example right uh can talk about
[00:31:56.960] a Russian fighter you I'll just throw an
[00:31:58.960] example everybody knows we look at
[00:32:00.399] Russia uh a Russian fighter and talk
[00:32:02.320] about how fast it flies how how high it
[00:32:03.919] can fly based on their assessments right
[00:32:06.159] uh what spear does is we we get into the
[00:32:08.320] head of the pilots and we try to talk
[00:32:10.720] about how they're going to fly that
[00:32:11.760] aircraft you know one of the analogies
[00:32:13.279] I've used for years is hockey players
[00:32:14.799] right every hockey player has to know
[00:32:16.000] how to skate some of them are better
[00:32:17.519] than the others but it's really about
[00:32:18.720] the game right it's it's about
[00:32:20.399] everything else but skating skating come
[00:32:22.240] second. So if you think about that and
[00:32:24.080] apply it to a fighter aircraft, it's how
[00:32:26.399] they're how how they're deploying that,
[00:32:27.760] right? And guys with my background can
[00:32:29.200] watch somebody flying an airplane and
[00:32:30.720] go, "Well, he's probably Russian or, you
[00:32:32.240] know, or whoever, right? Or might that's
[00:32:34.080] probably an American." So, you know, you
[00:32:36.880] really kind of can recognize some of the
[00:32:39.120] the techniques and and the way they do
[00:32:41.120] things. You know, a mutual friend of
[00:32:42.640] ours was trying to describe how high up
[00:32:44.480] you went and he compared you to uh a
[00:32:47.760] twostar admiral. That wasn't accurate.
[00:32:50.159] Exactly. you you weren't comfortable
[00:32:51.360] with that, but how how would I explain
[00:32:52.960] to our audience how far up the rung you
[00:32:55.279] went? Well, sure. It's it's right in as
[00:32:58.000] and and I didn't want to really push any
[00:33:00.320] uh buttons with that. So, from from O
[00:33:03.279] and I, you know, I went to the Pentagon
[00:33:04.640] and I worked in in6 which is the
[00:33:06.799] headquarters level for naval
[00:33:08.000] intelligence. The director of naval
[00:33:09.600] intelligence uh is is dual hated is what
[00:33:12.080] we call the N2 and six, which is, you
[00:33:13.679] know, the OPNAV office code. Um at that
[00:33:16.720] point, I was still at 15. Uh and then I
[00:33:18.799] went off to be uh the J2, the director
[00:33:21.279] of intelligence for the joint warfare
[00:33:22.640] analysis center at Dogrren. Uh and then
[00:33:24.799] from there I was promoted initially to
[00:33:27.200] what we call tier one uh defense
[00:33:29.039] intelligence senior level tier one uh
[00:33:31.440] which is a as a senior executive
[00:33:33.200] position. Uh and then was uh within
[00:33:36.720] eight months or so I was bumped up to a
[00:33:38.240] tier two which is where the twoar comes
[00:33:40.320] in.
[00:33:41.720] uh you know it's an equivalency uh
[00:33:45.360] throughout my career it's been you know
[00:33:47.039] are you really equal right we always
[00:33:48.480] throw out GS-15s or colonels or there's
[00:33:51.760] an equivalency um but you don't go
[00:33:54.080] busting around the Pentagon saying oh I
[00:33:56.320] outrank you or you know so I'm an
[00:33:58.960] admiral right yeah but but you do uh
[00:34:01.760] have the the gravitas if that's a good
[00:34:03.679] word to use that's not a good word to
[00:34:04.960] use the the kind of the peer level right
[00:34:08.000] uh so you know if I'd go into a meeting
[00:34:11.040] uh with a two star or a onear you know
[00:34:12.960] kind of have a peer level so I'm not put
[00:34:15.119] in in the corner you know and and
[00:34:17.760] typically in my meetings I you know I
[00:34:19.679] was there representing someone higher
[00:34:21.040] than me as well sometimes I'm
[00:34:22.639] representing myself but sometimes I'm
[00:34:23.919] there representing someone higher than
[00:34:25.440] me so then I inherit their authority I'm
[00:34:27.599] sitting at their seat with their name on
[00:34:28.960] it so I'm speaking for that person I
[00:34:30.639] wouldn't been sent to that meeting if I
[00:34:32.000] couldn't speak for that person uh and a
[00:34:33.919] lot of that in the Pentagon is resource
[00:34:35.520] sponsoring so you know I sat in many uh
[00:34:38.079] tables where I was representing the
[00:34:39.440] resource sponsor And that gets attention
[00:34:41.440] because acquisition programs at your Nav
[00:34:43.280] Air, your NAVC, your Air Force material
[00:34:45.040] command, those are all built on
[00:34:47.000] requirements. Back to the threat, right?
[00:34:50.079] And and those requirements are paid for
[00:34:52.800] by resource sponsors. So the resource
[00:34:54.960] sponsor says we need a new jammer and
[00:34:57.720] and from that resource sponsor,
[00:34:59.839] requirements are driven and then
[00:35:01.599] capabilities are built and they go to
[00:35:03.680] whoever can build that capability,
[00:35:05.200] whether that's Nav Air or that's Nav,
[00:35:06.880] you know, whoever that might be, right?
[00:35:08.560] So, uh, so in those circles, you know,
[00:35:11.119] you get to know a lot of people, uh, and
[00:35:13.359] that helped me later, uh, to to really
[00:35:15.359] kind of know who who I need to reach out
[00:35:17.119] to. Can you describe for me at what
[00:35:19.599] point UFOs, they were called then, UAPs?
[00:35:22.160] Now, at what point that kind of got on
[00:35:23.920] your radar screen? Was it something you
[00:35:25.599] had at least a casual interest in
[00:35:27.599] growing up or it came a point in your
[00:35:30.000] professional career that it it landed on
[00:35:32.800] your desk? Yeah, every time I've done
[00:35:35.200] anything related to UAP or UFO has been
[00:35:38.000] my job. Um, and and what I mean by that,
[00:35:41.520] I didn't really have a passion growing
[00:35:43.520] up. I didn't have all the books, so I
[00:35:45.119] didn't watch all the TV shows. Um, I
[00:35:47.359] stepped into a job at the Defense
[00:35:50.000] Intelligence Agency where uh some things
[00:35:52.800] came across the desk again thinking
[00:35:54.400] technologies and other things where I
[00:35:55.839] needed to to really kind of dig in and
[00:35:58.079] understand potentials. and those
[00:36:00.640] potentials, you know, I kept an open
[00:36:02.320] mind, a skeptic mind, whatever you want
[00:36:04.320] to call it, you know, looking for uh
[00:36:07.520] something that could answer this uh and
[00:36:09.280] all the means that I had to to to to
[00:36:11.760] chase that. Uh but there were definitely
[00:36:14.640] some times where we really couldn't
[00:36:16.000] close the loop. And with that, uh we
[00:36:20.240] realized that that uh something needed
[00:36:23.599] to be done about it. We should uh maybe
[00:36:26.320] just fill in our listeners about how Jay
[00:36:29.359] Stratton ended up studying UFOs and
[00:36:31.839] related mysteries because uh he he made
[00:36:34.240] it clear to us in our conversation with
[00:36:35.839] him. He's not a UFO guy. He's not
[00:36:37.760] sitting at home watching UFO videos on
[00:36:40.320] YouTube. He'd watch guitar playing
[00:36:42.480] videos on YouTube, but not UFOs. He
[00:36:45.040] didn't have a whole bunch of books. He
[00:36:46.480] didn't have an abiding interest in it.
[00:36:48.640] But he ended up moving from office of
[00:36:50.640] naval intelligence over to DIA and uh
[00:36:54.400] became an acquaintance and colleague of
[00:36:56.560] Dr. Jim Lacatsky who was the creator of
[00:36:59.119] eventually became the creator of the OAP
[00:37:01.119] program what became OAP and Latsky had
[00:37:03.920] an interest in in Skinwalker Ranch in
[00:37:06.320] the book that Colum and I Colum Keller
[00:37:08.240] and I wrote and well we'll let uh we'll
[00:37:10.880] let uh Jay Stratton explain how that
[00:37:13.440] process went. I can remember telling our
[00:37:15.760] mutual friend Dr. Latsky, right? That
[00:37:18.560] you know, some of this stuff I I don't
[00:37:20.720] and I and I hate saying the word now
[00:37:22.400] because I have so much more background,
[00:37:24.000] but the word believe, right? The the
[00:37:26.000] belief isn't there necessarily that I'm
[00:37:27.680] seeing when I think, you know, was being
[00:37:29.520] reported, right? So, uh that evolution
[00:37:32.880] between 2006 uh and then to 2008.
[00:37:37.839] uh at that time I uh had to go to Iraq
[00:37:42.320] uh just a normal deployment and because
[00:37:46.160] we did deploy civilians a lot of people
[00:37:48.800] don't realize that civilians are just on
[00:37:50.400] on the hook just like uh military um in
[00:37:53.599] 2006 and seven time frame as we were
[00:37:55.839] trying to to think about this problem
[00:37:57.760] set uh Jim Lacsky says uh hey you
[00:38:02.440] know basically I made the comment
[00:38:04.480] something the effect of I'd love to see
[00:38:05.920] one with my own guys. And uh and what I
[00:38:09.760] meant by one is a nuts andbolts craft,
[00:38:12.079] right? Because in my mind, that's what
[00:38:13.359] I'm I'm a technology aerospace guy. I'm
[00:38:15.920] thinking the craft that I can go touch
[00:38:17.760] and put my hands on, right? Or I'd like
[00:38:19.520] to see one of these things in person.
[00:38:21.280] And I was getting ready to go and Jim
[00:38:24.400] was obviously he was tracking the the
[00:38:27.119] ranch uh and he kind of made a a joke or
[00:38:30.320] I don't need to say it's a joke, but a
[00:38:32.000] comment of hey, you know, there's one
[00:38:33.440] place in the world we might see one of
[00:38:34.720] these things as this place. and he hands
[00:38:36.640] me your book and I throw the book in my
[00:38:38.880] backpack and literally took it to a rack
[00:38:41.200] with me. So, I read that book in the
[00:38:43.680] green zone and and uh in my downtime and
[00:38:47.200] uh you know before I even got back uh
[00:38:50.320] we're you know talking and and things
[00:38:52.160] are proceeding along but so I come back
[00:38:55.200] uh and at that time we we were at
[00:38:58.160] initially uh the defense warning office
[00:39:00.240] and DIA was at at the DACK we call the
[00:39:02.560] defense intelligence analysis center at
[00:39:04.079] Bowling Air Force Base. Now granted, I
[00:39:07.280] was flight test back in the day as Pax
[00:39:09.599] River Naval Air Station, which is in St.
[00:39:11.359] Mary's County, Maryland. So, I still
[00:39:12.800] live there and I never sold my house
[00:39:14.320] throughout this whole process because I
[00:39:16.000] liked where I lived, but I was making
[00:39:17.839] really terrible commutes. So, I agreed
[00:39:19.920] to work at the Defense Intelligence
[00:39:21.200] Agency and made that commute. And in the
[00:39:23.520] process, they transferred us 14 miles
[00:39:25.280] through the city to another place. And I
[00:39:27.839] can remember the quote to this day, oh,
[00:39:29.200] it's only 14 miles, Jay, but it's 14
[00:39:30.880] miles of DC hell, right, going through
[00:39:32.720] that the commute there. So anyway, we
[00:39:35.280] end up in this place, it's called
[00:39:36.720] Clarendon, and
[00:39:38.359] uh it was really killing me physically,
[00:39:41.280] you know, just the drive every day and
[00:39:42.800] the and the stress of that. I love the
[00:39:44.160] job, but the the stress of getting there
[00:39:45.760] at home. And in 2008, Oi offered me the
[00:39:49.680] position to come back and be the deputy
[00:39:51.119] director of warfare, which was a lot
[00:39:52.960] better commute. And I loved O and I, you
[00:39:54.720] know, I I kind of grew up there in in
[00:39:56.320] the intel community. Um so I took that
[00:39:58.400] job and left. Um you know, Dr. Okaskey
[00:40:01.280] stayed in touch. Um but that contract
[00:40:04.200] uh you know it was already in the
[00:40:06.320] beginnings and then 2009 if I remember
[00:40:08.960] my timeline right he he put it on Fed
[00:40:10.960] Bizops uh to be bid and they had two
[00:40:14.640] biders uh that I remember uh one being
[00:40:17.520] Bob Bigalow you know Biglo Aerospace and
[00:40:19.280] the other being a a company that I don't
[00:40:21.440] remember the name of but uh it was an in
[00:40:23.760] a company that did a lot of business
[00:40:24.960] with DIA and and uh kind of in that
[00:40:27.200] contract world you know they that you
[00:40:28.880] have your favorite customers and your
[00:40:30.160] favorite uh but there were more than one
[00:40:32.240] bed. No funny business that you can see.
[00:40:34.400] It wasn't none at all scales. And I know
[00:40:36.960] all of the leadership, right? I worked
[00:40:38.400] there, worked for them. They're the most
[00:40:40.640] uh straightforward, honest people as you
[00:40:42.240] can imagine. And I can they could not uh
[00:40:45.040] I I could never in a million years
[00:40:46.640] imagine them u taking any kind of uh you
[00:40:51.200] know, favoritism into account. They I
[00:40:53.520] guarantee they went over everything very
[00:40:55.599] detailed and made a decision based on
[00:40:57.440] the best uh response to the proposal
[00:41:00.079] that they had.
[00:41:02.160] They they fire up this program. Biglo's
[00:41:04.720] organization springs in action. They
[00:41:06.400] create these 38 papers. You know, we've
[00:41:08.400] heard it described as junk science. Do
[00:41:10.720] you recall how those papers were
[00:41:12.079] received when they when they came out?
[00:41:13.920] So, what I remember, so Latsky, Dr.
[00:41:17.680] Latsky, you know, that was was driving
[00:41:20.400] that and and our uh uh colleague Dr. how
[00:41:23.839] put off kind of led the charge there uh
[00:41:25.920] supporting Bigalow Aerospace
[00:41:29.000] and the idea of them in my mind was
[00:41:32.079] awesome right I'll have this reference
[00:41:33.760] document that I can always go back to on
[00:41:35.680] all these different technologies um they
[00:41:38.560] did come back uh being
[00:41:41.599] uh really uh I'll say academic right
[00:41:45.839] very high level
[00:41:48.280] academic whereas we're dealing with the
[00:41:50.640] defense intelligence agency that predom
[00:41:53.119] dominance is a liberal arts degree and
[00:41:56.240] you know their war on terrorism was hot
[00:41:58.079] and heavy, right? We're hiring people
[00:41:59.760] who are experts in in that culture and
[00:42:02.400] and you know hiring some people just
[00:42:04.640] because they speak Arabic, you know, and
[00:42:06.160] all these things. It wasn't we weren't
[00:42:08.079] hiring the best and and brightest
[00:42:09.920] engineers at the time because it just
[00:42:11.920] wasn't the need of the of the of the
[00:42:14.640] DIA. Um so if you take all of that into
[00:42:17.119] context and you realize your average GIA
[00:42:19.280] analyst is going to look at that with
[00:42:20.880] their you know polysai or history
[00:42:23.119] background and go what is this right? Um
[00:42:26.319] where whereas other folks out you know
[00:42:28.960] out AFL and folks you know people with
[00:42:31.440] the with the educational background will
[00:42:32.880] look at it and go oh this is this is
[00:42:34.800] interesting but they may say some of it
[00:42:37.040] is junk science because it is bleeding
[00:42:39.119] edge and that's what we wanted. We
[00:42:40.880] wanted to know what what they thought as
[00:42:43.200] as the leading expert on a pot potential
[00:42:46.160] technology what would be pushing the
[00:42:48.480] edge of that envelope because I needed
[00:42:50.079] something to point back to if I saw
[00:42:52.000] something uh in any kind of reporting I
[00:42:54.720] could say look you know based on Dr. you
[00:42:56.960] know XYZ that wrote this report that
[00:42:59.040] that's significant. You've seen what
[00:43:00.960] else was produced by OAP over the 27
[00:43:03.599] months. I mean it's a lot of stuff but a
[00:43:05.760] lot of it is some of it is pretty weird.
[00:43:07.839] I mean you know the skinwalker angle
[00:43:09.839] I've heard it said now people who want
[00:43:12.880] to denigrate the program that it was
[00:43:15.599] nonsense. uh it got off on all this
[00:43:17.839] weird paranormal stuff that was never
[00:43:19.599] what it was supposed to be and it was a
[00:43:22.240] waste of money and that's why it was
[00:43:24.640] canceled because it got into these weird
[00:43:26.240] topics that are are just too far out in
[00:43:29.520] general. Uh can you address uh the work
[00:43:31.920] that was done by OAP the reports that
[00:43:33.760] you've read that have been made public
[00:43:35.599] whether it's worthwhile or
[00:43:37.640] not? So I think so I'm back at O and I
[00:43:41.599] at this point right so my day-to-day
[00:43:43.640] interaction with the contract and with
[00:43:45.920] with Bass was not not there you know I
[00:43:49.440] didn't have that day-to-day um however
[00:43:51.520] Dr. Latsky and I again he wants to pick
[00:43:54.000] my brain on things that are being seen
[00:43:55.680] and I'm still in a role uh where I'm
[00:43:58.079] concerned about threats to aviation and
[00:43:59.839] and those types of of things right so
[00:44:02.319] it's good to keep me and the team that I
[00:44:04.160] had and and and my larger rolodex of
[00:44:07.280] experts across the intel community so it
[00:44:09.359] was good to keep me uh up to speed
[00:44:12.920] um the heart and soul of OAP was those
[00:44:16.000] technology areas and the heart and soul
[00:44:18.720] of those technologies areas is pre
[00:44:20.400] preventing a disruptive
[00:44:21.880] technology. The other stuff that came
[00:44:24.079] out of that was
[00:44:27.079] collateral. You know, if you go to the
[00:44:29.119] ranch to see a nuts andbolts craft that
[00:44:31.280] you might be able to put your hands on
[00:44:32.960] and you see other things that you can't
[00:44:35.119] explain, no one to this day can explain.
[00:44:37.839] Is it something to do with the
[00:44:39.119] technology? Is it something, you know,
[00:44:40.800] is it an effect on the body? Is it is it
[00:44:43.119] something that that's driving you to see
[00:44:44.800] things that that aren't really there?
[00:44:46.560] You know, all those things needed to be
[00:44:47.839] studied. and and again throughout this
[00:44:49.839] whole process I'm learning I'm learn all
[00:44:52.000] of this comes into the forefront later
[00:44:53.599] with the with the bigger task force and
[00:44:55.839] knowing what I needed and knowing the
[00:44:57.599] kinds of expertise that I needed and
[00:44:59.440] that true diversity may not mean you
[00:45:02.400] know whether you're you're from a
[00:45:03.760] certain country or your ethnic
[00:45:05.119] background or anything else or true
[00:45:06.240] diversity maybe just purely the way you
[00:45:07.839] think based on your own background that
[00:45:10.800] uh is kind of an asymmetric approach to
[00:45:13.839] uh the technology area right for example
[00:45:16.240] hiring biologists to look the terrorist
[00:45:18.880] network and the threat uh that of
[00:45:21.440] radical Islam and how it spreads like a
[00:45:23.280] virus, right? You take that same mindset
[00:45:25.760] to other things um and the various
[00:45:29.200] phenomenon that we're seeing. It's
[00:45:30.960] important to to bring in that kind of
[00:45:32.640] diversity. This is just purely the way
[00:45:34.560] they think. And I always like to bring
[00:45:36.079] in folks with that kind of background
[00:45:37.599] that didn't have a military background
[00:45:39.440] because now they don't they're not in
[00:45:41.040] this box in this in this in this um in
[00:45:43.359] this viewpoint that they're always
[00:45:44.720] trying to to mold things into. they're
[00:45:47.280] coming at you with, well, have you
[00:45:48.800] thought about this? Right? And that is
[00:45:51.119] where the true the power of those and
[00:45:53.280] those papers come from, too, because
[00:45:55.119] then you've got to be something to point
[00:45:57.040] back to to say, hey, hey, take a look at
[00:45:59.440] this. What do you think? Right? You
[00:46:00.560] know, to another academic or and and how
[00:46:03.119] can you uh how how could you see that
[00:46:05.599] applied? So, Jay Stratton is not a UFO
[00:46:09.839] guy. He's a a I don't know if you say a
[00:46:12.720] career intelligence officer, but O andi
[00:46:14.640] to DIA that the UFO thing hits at him
[00:46:18.640] and he realizes there's a void there. We
[00:46:20.640] need to do this right. There are
[00:46:22.319] potential threats. We don't know where
[00:46:24.560] they're coming from. So, I'm going to
[00:46:26.800] create the the UAP task force and we're
[00:46:29.839] going to look at this in a badass way
[00:46:32.160] and we're going to be clear with the
[00:46:33.280] American public. He also made sure to
[00:46:34.880] put that in. we going to be clear with
[00:46:36.400] the American public uh for he did that
[00:46:38.800] for a while and then he had a break
[00:46:40.800] right for from the it wasn't his job and
[00:46:44.000] during a time he was doing intelligence
[00:46:45.440] in another field are we up to that point
[00:46:47.760] in the story so the public the UFO
[00:46:50.960] public is aware of the programs that J
[00:46:53.599] Stratton was involved in we've mentioned
[00:46:55.040] the the names of those what they don't
[00:46:57.359] know is they they're already familiar
[00:46:59.040] with some of his work uh for example in
[00:47:01.960] 2018 I released through KAS and mystery
[00:47:05.200] wire a 13-page report about the tic tac
[00:47:08.000] incident. Uh tic tac occurred in 2004.
[00:47:11.040] Your friend, Commander Dave Fraver, is
[00:47:12.880] the the aviator for the Navy that had
[00:47:14.960] the direct encounter with this strange
[00:47:17.640] object. 5 years later, when OAP is born,
[00:47:22.079] the first case they start looking at is
[00:47:24.160] Tic Tac. And the person they came to
[00:47:26.480] rely on to write the first report and
[00:47:29.280] investigate a report on Tic Tac was Jay
[00:47:31.839] Stratton. Uh, I released that report in
[00:47:33.920] 2018. It had no insignia on it. It
[00:47:36.560] wasn't signed. It doesn't say who wrote
[00:47:38.240] it, but he we can say now he's the guy
[00:47:40.480] wrote it. And it was great work. He
[00:47:42.079] talked to all these aviators and and
[00:47:44.000] different people who are involved in it.
[00:47:45.760] It is one report that then became a much
[00:47:48.319] bigger report that has not been made
[00:47:49.760] public, but uh eventually will be
[00:47:51.599] someday. So that's one bit of work that
[00:47:53.760] he did. A second thing that the public
[00:47:55.760] would know about is the durs. There are
[00:47:57.599] 38 of these dur uh defense intelligence
[00:48:00.960] reference documents is the that's the
[00:48:02.800] acronym what it means and 38 of those
[00:48:05.119] reports were prepared for the OSAP
[00:48:06.960] program and as Jay explained to us when
[00:48:09.680] we when we met with them um you know it
[00:48:12.079] was meant to be a baseline uh to
[00:48:14.400] establish what our baseline is for
[00:48:16.560] science and technology in specific kinds
[00:48:19.040] of categories and to project what it
[00:48:21.280] might be 50 years from now. And you
[00:48:23.280] know, I remember when I made some of
[00:48:24.720] those when you and I released some of
[00:48:26.559] those reports, uh, people were griping
[00:48:29.200] and moaning, oh, this is sci-fi. It's
[00:48:31.040] nonsense. It's garbage science. Well,
[00:48:32.800] it's not. That's not how it was how it
[00:48:34.480] was received by the defense industry.
[00:48:36.319] They loved those reports because it was
[00:48:38.240] really good work. And they needed a
[00:48:40.200] baseline from which they could compare.
[00:48:42.800] When they had UFO cases to to analyze,
[00:48:46.319] is this ours? Could it be ours? Could we
[00:48:48.720] duplicate that 50 years from now? um in
[00:48:51.359] the and many times the answer was no
[00:48:54.000] right and and and Jay actually talked
[00:48:55.920] about this in this interview that we did
[00:48:58.160] it's like he was saying look we were
[00:49:00.960] trying to find the disruptive
[00:49:02.640] technologies in 50 years from now the
[00:49:05.280] things that we were seeing the things
[00:49:06.960] that were going on we we didn't have
[00:49:09.520] good explanations for so we have to
[00:49:11.440] theorize and get out there like what
[00:49:13.200] could it be how could it be happening
[00:49:15.760] it's so interesting to me the way he
[00:49:17.760] also said he was so dismissing ive in a
[00:49:22.000] in a in a calm, cool, collected way
[00:49:24.000] because he really empathizes with people
[00:49:25.839] that have less information than him and
[00:49:28.400] and I get that. So So certain things
[00:49:31.359] that are classified within our
[00:49:33.200] Department of Defense, he can't just
[00:49:34.800] like go out on Twitter and say even if
[00:49:36.400] he gets on Twitter, you know what I
[00:49:37.920] mean? So, but he was very clear that if
[00:49:42.480] something was identifiable, if something
[00:49:44.960] was ours, if something was a traditional
[00:49:48.640] object or a known foreign nation or even
[00:49:52.800] a question, there could be a for a
[00:49:54.160] foreign nation known despite the
[00:49:57.000] capabilities that those would not be
[00:49:59.359] included in his reporting in his
[00:50:01.680] analysis. And he really specifically
[00:50:04.960] said, you know, I get it that people
[00:50:06.400] think it's just one piece of evidence,
[00:50:08.000] like just a video, but you and I are
[00:50:09.760] hyper personally aware that there's
[00:50:12.319] other corroborative evidence that is not
[00:50:14.640] for public consumption. Jay says it
[00:50:16.720] himself though. We had more information.
[00:50:18.720] And so when you when you say, "Oh, it's,
[00:50:20.559] you know, birds, balloons, optical
[00:50:23.040] illusions, reflections, pilot air," he's
[00:50:25.839] like, "Bullshit. It's not. We would
[00:50:28.160] never have included it." And it's nice
[00:50:30.079] to hear him say that because it carries
[00:50:31.839] a lot more weight than just, you know,
[00:50:34.160] it actually supports the the pilots and
[00:50:36.240] and people that know because they were
[00:50:37.599] there. Exactly. I mean, you know, the uh
[00:50:39.520] the armchair experts, the debunkers on
[00:50:42.240] social media, just throw anything out.
[00:50:44.880] Throw it out and see what sticks against
[00:50:46.960] the wall. It's birds, it's flares, it's,
[00:50:48.960] you know, it's exhaust from a jet. It's
[00:50:51.440] ridiculous is what it is. And uh you
[00:50:54.000] know for that ex explanation to work any
[00:50:57.280] of those you have to assume the US
[00:50:59.119] military are idiots that the pilots are
[00:51:01.520] idiots that the people uh manning the
[00:51:03.520] sensors are idiots that the analysis
[00:51:05.760] done by intelligence officials afterward
[00:51:07.920] that they're all idiots that they don't
[00:51:09.760] recognize a bird from a you know an
[00:51:12.000] unknown object traveling at a high rate
[00:51:14.160] of speed. So Jay did share with us that
[00:51:18.880] there is so much information that cannot
[00:51:21.359] be shared with the public for national
[00:51:22.880] security reasons that went into their
[00:51:24.559] analyses of these key cases. Gimble, Tic
[00:51:27.680] Tac, Go Fast and a lot of others that
[00:51:29.839] you and I got into. Um you so he worked
[00:51:33.280] with OAP with Bigalow and Colum and
[00:51:36.520] Lacatsky and and he developed
[00:51:38.720] relationships in other parts of the
[00:51:40.319] Pentagon and the intelligence community
[00:51:42.640] that that served him well years later.
[00:51:45.040] 27 months after OAP starts it ended and
[00:51:48.400] then Lou Alzando comes along picks up
[00:51:50.960] the pieces creates what came to be known
[00:51:53.119] as ATIP and and uh Jay was directly
[00:51:55.920] involved with that. Well and also Jay
[00:51:58.000] developed it was so cool hearing him
[00:51:59.839] talk about this. He developed what he
[00:52:01.599] said was like asymmetrical approaches.
[00:52:03.920] So he would get people in different
[00:52:06.559] fields because they had different ways
[00:52:08.240] to solve problems and he would get them
[00:52:10.400] with their specialties like a biologist
[00:52:13.680] that would look at the spread of
[00:52:15.440] information a little bit differently. So
[00:52:16.960] I really appreciated the way that he
[00:52:18.960] would take an intelligence approach to
[00:52:20.559] problems that haven't been solved in
[00:52:22.160] traditional means. So my point is he
[00:52:24.000] actually developed uh you know staff and
[00:52:26.240] teams and this was a a big deal. Uh I I
[00:52:29.920] think that that what he did in
[00:52:32.079] developing and for people that don't
[00:52:33.599] know so OAP we keep saying that I'll
[00:52:36.000] just it's bear to repeat advanced
[00:52:37.920] aerospace weapon systems application
[00:52:40.000] program that was the the the largest
[00:52:43.200] best
[00:52:44.359] funded government DIA UFO program in
[00:52:48.839] history that is publicly known. And then
[00:52:52.800] as that transitioned, it turned into
[00:52:55.520] ATIP, advanced aerospace threat
[00:52:57.520] Identification Program. So those are the
[00:53:00.400] acronyms that we keep talking about. But
[00:53:03.280] I I think it's important to to show that
[00:53:05.359] there's individuals and intelligence
[00:53:07.800] agencies that that are taking this
[00:53:10.400] seriously and building infrastructure
[00:53:12.319] for better reporting and want to be
[00:53:14.480] transparent with the American public to
[00:53:16.079] the degree that is safe with, you know,
[00:53:18.800] with problems with foreign problems.
[00:53:21.359] That's so encouraging. I love that there
[00:53:23.760] are a multitude of agencies now that are
[00:53:28.839] developing beyond an interest but a
[00:53:31.720] process to help bring this information
[00:53:34.720] to where it needs to go. It will make
[00:53:36.640] you and me obsolete maybe as journalists
[00:53:38.319] but it's great. It's happening. OAP, the
[00:53:41.119] the DIA program lasted 27 months and
[00:53:44.400] then, you know, because of its it got
[00:53:46.640] into some pretty controversial areas and
[00:53:48.960] became uh a hot potato within the
[00:53:51.599] Pentagon intelligence community, Lou
[00:53:53.680] Alzando steps forward and was able to
[00:53:56.640] keep something going, a form of the
[00:53:58.720] program. Uh it's not as big, it's not as
[00:54:01.520] high-profile, but he kept it going and
[00:54:04.000] and uh was upset eventually that it just
[00:54:07.200] didn't get enough attention. and it
[00:54:08.559] didn't get enough resources to to be
[00:54:10.880] able to do the work they really needed.
[00:54:12.319] Jay, who was working with Lou, they're
[00:54:14.319] good friends, a lot of mutual respect
[00:54:17.200] between the two of them, moved on to
[00:54:18.960] another job. He was aware, as he told
[00:54:21.440] us, he was aware that Lou Alzando was
[00:54:23.280] going to leave and the reasons why he
[00:54:25.119] was going to leave and was upset. He was
[00:54:27.200] not aware that the New York Times story
[00:54:29.599] was going to come and then boom, it
[00:54:31.040] happens one day. So, so that's a funny
[00:54:33.040] Yeah. thing. So, so Lou, I mean really
[00:54:35.520] that's I I I people just don't get this,
[00:54:38.720] but Lou is a champion. I mean, he took
[00:54:41.280] something and he kept it going and he
[00:54:44.319] made it strong. And you know, I I I
[00:54:46.960] think and I think Jay really appreciates
[00:54:49.520] that. You could tell from the
[00:54:51.000] conversations. U so so we get to the
[00:54:54.079] point where Jay is now out of the UFO
[00:54:56.640] topic. That's not his task with his
[00:54:59.119] intelligence job. So he's doing
[00:55:00.640] something else. And the way he said it
[00:55:02.400] to us was so cool is uh on
[00:55:05.160] December 17th or you know whatever it
[00:55:07.599] was 2017 when the the New York Times
[00:55:09.520] thing somebody put a paper bang right on
[00:55:12.960] his desk and says you know merry
[00:55:14.480] Christmas or happy birthday whatever
[00:55:15.760] they said. We'll let him tell that
[00:55:16.960] story. Yes. I knew Lou was leaving. Uh
[00:55:20.319] so again I at that point in the 2017 to
[00:55:23.040] to early 18 time frame I was in a job
[00:55:25.040] that UFOs were not my job uh in any form
[00:55:27.760] or fashion. Uh, so I did not do that
[00:55:30.880] job. Uh, you know, very conscious
[00:55:32.880] throughout my career of sticking to what
[00:55:34.559] I'm paid to do, right? Um, however,
[00:55:37.520] again, Lou and I are friends and and the
[00:55:39.839] folks that kind of took it over when I
[00:55:41.280] left, I knew them all. Uh, and you know,
[00:55:44.160] I got a face to face, it's called a
[00:55:46.800] Tamberg secure uh kind of facetime with
[00:55:49.839] Lou in his office. And this was about, I
[00:55:54.000] think, three or so days before he
[00:55:55.680] dropped his letter. and he's holding his
[00:55:57.200] letter, you know, or something to that
[00:55:58.559] effect. And he's like, "Here's what I'm
[00:56:00.400] doing." And, uh, I said, you know, "Good
[00:56:02.720] luck." Uh, and then, yeah, lo and
[00:56:05.680] behold, he's on stage with with Hal and
[00:56:08.960] and and Steve Justice and the team
[00:56:10.720] there. Um, and I'm watching, and it's
[00:56:13.839] still at this point, I I had no idea I
[00:56:16.079] would be back in into this topic at all.
[00:56:18.400] Right. Um, I'm watching as an outsider
[00:56:21.440] just like everybody, but I could
[00:56:22.720] actually text Lou if I wanted, right?
[00:56:24.400] So, I had some insider um but but I'm
[00:56:27.359] watching and and interested. Are you
[00:56:30.880] sympathetic to his stated reasons for
[00:56:33.359] leaving and that he was frustrated that
[00:56:34.880] I can't get through to the Secretary of
[00:56:36.240] Defense and tell him about this and it
[00:56:37.680] needs to be a higher priority. I am you.
[00:56:41.359] What we needed was was a recognized, you
[00:56:44.480] know, program of record as we call it,
[00:56:46.000] right? We needed something that had the
[00:56:48.880] the oomph behind it, the power behind
[00:56:50.799] it, the authority behind it to do a lot
[00:56:52.400] of things uh in order to get the answers
[00:56:54.640] that needed to be uh the answers we
[00:56:56.880] needed.
[00:56:58.119] And you know, I was building towards
[00:57:00.319] that later and and we'll I'm sure we'll
[00:57:02.400] talk about the the task force, but you
[00:57:04.400] know, I had a five-year plan of of how
[00:57:06.319] we're going to get all of these things
[00:57:07.680] that we needed. Uh but if you're just a
[00:57:10.240] working group, you know, and and trying
[00:57:12.400] to do your job and and in my in my hat,
[00:57:15.200] you know, Navy at the headquarters, I
[00:57:17.640] had a certain amount of of uh wiggle
[00:57:21.119] room for trying to get things done and
[00:57:22.720] authorities, right? But you needed
[00:57:25.200] something at above all that. You needed
[00:57:27.200] something at that SEC def level, at that
[00:57:29.359] ODNI level that could reach into
[00:57:31.359] everything and had the authority to get
[00:57:32.880] the answers it needed. And Lou and I
[00:57:34.400] knew we needed that. and and every time
[00:57:36.480] we would try to knock on a door and and
[00:57:38.640] say, "Hey, we need that." Uh, you know,
[00:57:40.799] here here's what we know, right? Here's
[00:57:42.240] what we've seen a little bit of history
[00:57:44.160] on OAP and other things. Uh, yeah, you
[00:57:47.440] get the door kind of shut in your face
[00:57:48.720] because it's uh back to that careerism.
[00:57:51.440] I don't know. I this I don't know, you
[00:57:53.760] know, I'm afraid of the Washington Post.
[00:57:56.000] Was there any involvement? I've heard
[00:57:57.760] these stories from people we know uh
[00:58:00.599] about fundamentalists, religious people,
[00:58:03.520] high ups who were concerned about its
[00:58:06.640] demons or were were messing with forces
[00:58:09.520] of biblical proportions. There's
[00:58:11.839] absolutely some concern there and and I
[00:58:13.440] did see it in writing one time in my
[00:58:14.880] career uh where someone was asking me to
[00:58:17.680] to push back because their religious
[00:58:19.599] concerns uh and and you should wave off
[00:58:22.000] of this topic is literally what they
[00:58:23.280] were telling me. um you know you should
[00:58:25.040] you shouldn't be involved in this.
[00:58:28.359] Um I know it exists. I think what my
[00:58:32.960] professional opinion is after again
[00:58:35.520] years now of of being involved
[00:58:39.559] is that seems to have died off. I think
[00:58:43.440] one now you know I'm elevated into that
[00:58:46.400] senior level and a lot of my colleagues
[00:58:48.559] that were all at the same you know level
[00:58:50.799] that had grown up with me throughout the
[00:58:52.559] process we don't really think that way
[00:58:54.880] right so I think kind of the old guard
[00:58:56.480] was moving out the new guard was moving
[00:58:58.160] in and never once after that early DIA
[00:59:02.559] stuff you know did it ever stop uh or
[00:59:06.960] get in the way it was just early on when
[00:59:08.960] when kind of that old guard's there and
[00:59:10.960] and protecting
[00:59:12.240] their own, you know, what they believe,
[00:59:13.680] right? December 2017, it blows up. New
[00:59:16.079] York Times story. I don't know if you
[00:59:17.520] knew that was coming, but I know, you
[00:59:19.760] know, Lou has been through the radar
[00:59:21.760] since then. I also know that Senator
[00:59:24.079] Reid, who, you know, he let me know it
[00:59:26.000] was coming. Uh, he starts getting phone
[00:59:28.240] calls immediately from former me his
[00:59:30.319] former colleagues in the Senate, and
[00:59:32.319] they're asking, "Hey, what's the deal?
[00:59:33.680] Is this program real? How do I find out
[00:59:35.920] about it?" Is that when you get sort of
[00:59:38.000] pulled back in uh and you start doing
[00:59:40.160] briefings or Well, so I was sitting in
[00:59:42.240] my office at the other uh non, you know,
[00:59:45.200] UFO related job and I get an email from
[00:59:47.839] my old boss uh that was a link to the
[00:59:50.880] New York Times story and she said,
[00:59:52.480] "Merry Christmas." Um because I had no
[00:59:55.760] idea that was coming at all. Uh and it
[00:59:58.799] was literally a holy crap. you know,
[01:00:00.480] when you're reading that and you have
[01:00:01.440] some inside baseball knowledge and and
[01:00:04.000] uh but I didn't have any security
[01:00:05.599] concerns, you know, it's like, yeah, if
[01:00:07.680] I had security concerns, I would have
[01:00:09.280] addressed it was with the security
[01:00:10.880] concern. I had the you know, I can't
[01:00:13.440] believe we're saying all this in the New
[01:00:15.280] York Times because of everything that
[01:00:17.760] was involved, right? Um but uh I didn't
[01:00:20.960] know it was coming. It took me by
[01:00:22.319] surprise. I had zero intent at that
[01:00:24.640] point of working the topic again and
[01:00:26.640] there just when I'm out, they pulled me
[01:00:28.400] back in. Exactly what happened.
[01:00:29.680] godfather exactly what happened. So, uh
[01:00:32.400] my old boss that sent me the email uh
[01:00:34.880] sometime after that sent me a position
[01:00:37.520] and said I should consider it and I did
[01:00:40.319] and I applied and I got that and that
[01:00:42.079] was that promotion. Um I was actually
[01:00:44.880] stepping back into office of naval
[01:00:46.160] intelligence to do a different job. Uh
[01:00:48.960] but at that point uh you know your your
[01:00:53.280] uh pilots have been taken to Congress,
[01:00:55.520] the Senate Armed Service Committee and
[01:00:57.040] all these folks had interest in the
[01:00:58.319] topic.
[01:00:59.680] and my boss realizing, you know, she
[01:01:01.920] knew all all along, hey, I got one guy
[01:01:04.480] that's got some history in this and and
[01:01:06.640] the trust to tackle it appropriately and
[01:01:09.359] keep it professional and do all the
[01:01:10.640] things that need to be done. So, she
[01:01:12.720] reached out and said, hey, I want you to
[01:01:14.400] take this over. And she really wanted a
[01:01:16.640] joint program is the word she used, but
[01:01:19.119] you know, joint effort built uh to
[01:01:22.480] tackle this problem and get out ahead of
[01:01:24.559] it because of the Alex Dietrix of the
[01:01:27.280] world, right? the people that that we
[01:01:28.720] want to take care of and I'll only say
[01:01:30.640] her name because she's come out herself
[01:01:32.319] and um and and with that uh I I took it
[01:01:38.400] I had the authority we call it um Durlas
[01:01:41.520] direct leaison authority I had direct
[01:01:43.680] leaison authority across the entire
[01:01:45.440] government um she empowered me with her
[01:01:48.319] you know her her power to to do that to
[01:01:50.960] say just go for it uh and I I wouldn't
[01:01:54.319] let anything stop me unless they you
[01:01:55.920] know threw me out Okay. Um, so I started
[01:01:58.480] going through my own education and
[01:02:00.640] saying, "Here's what I need." Uh, and
[01:02:03.119] and that came from the years of looking
[01:02:04.960] at this and I knew I needed I needed
[01:02:06.960] things like the FBI and the Coast Guard
[01:02:08.960] and others for their title 18
[01:02:10.400] authorities. I needed folks with the
[01:02:11.839] right title 50 authorities, the folks
[01:02:13.200] with the right title 10 authorities. Um,
[01:02:15.359] and and to do this right and and to get
[01:02:17.920] that level of respect and and u and and
[01:02:21.680] get to those true answers, you got to
[01:02:23.040] have the right people involved, right?
[01:02:24.799] So I went out like building a business
[01:02:26.960] and started knocking on doors and and
[01:02:29.440] now thanks to my new rank I I pretty
[01:02:32.000] much got doors opened right and and p
[01:02:34.960] previously they would have might might
[01:02:37.040] would have opened the doors but but now
[01:02:39.200] hey let's see what this guy has to say
[01:02:41.359] uh at that point you know we had the the
[01:02:43.280] gimbal and other things right that
[01:02:44.720] people know about but we had more
[01:02:46.440] obviously I'm going through what we know
[01:02:50.000] what we don't know what we think uh and
[01:02:51.920] everywhere I went because again of that
[01:02:54.480] education of how to present the data,
[01:02:56.400] how to present the the information, they
[01:02:59.280] went, "Holy crap, how can we help?"
[01:03:01.040] Right? And I ended up with with somebody
[01:03:02.960] in each organization. It was kind of my
[01:03:04.799] belly button to say, "Um, hey, uh, this
[01:03:08.319] is your guy. He'll help you." Uh, and I
[01:03:10.799] just started building out that business
[01:03:12.160] and that framework, uh, and getting the
[01:03:14.160] things that we needed to be successful.
[01:03:16.079] I would call it at that point a
[01:03:17.520] partnership, uh, not a task force. uh
[01:03:19.839] because really you know task force is a
[01:03:21.440] legal thing uh in the DoD circles. Uh
[01:03:24.240] but we were this uh this this
[01:03:26.240] partnership uh with the right people
[01:03:27.920] across the services uh everybody
[01:03:30.160] approaching it from from the right
[01:03:31.760] perspective. Did it have a name at that
[01:03:34.319] point? No, I I started loosely calling
[01:03:36.319] it a task force but that was very loose.
[01:03:38.880] It was really and the way I would brief
[01:03:40.480] it is partnership, you know, as I kind
[01:03:42.000] of show who's helping out. Uh and but at
[01:03:44.480] that point I am briefing Congress, you
[01:03:45.920] know, from from from that that day
[01:03:47.760] forward, right? We're we're I went in
[01:03:49.680] and and briefed the uh couple of the
[01:03:52.400] committees on my plan. I had a what I
[01:03:54.720] call a one pager. Again, I'm you know,
[01:03:56.319] from a marketing perspective of
[01:03:58.400] everything on one page and here's what
[01:03:59.760] I'm going to do and here's how I'm going
[01:04:01.039] to do it. Uh and they loved it. Uh and
[01:04:03.599] they got behind it and you saw some
[01:04:05.359] language coming out of the the
[01:04:07.119] authorization for that. I heard it
[01:04:09.039] became a hot ticket that you know
[01:04:10.640] whereas before it was not not nothing
[01:04:12.720] that ever pops up in Congress and
[01:04:14.160] suddenly, hey, let's have a hearing.
[01:04:16.079] Show us the videos. Absolutely. Yeah.
[01:04:18.160] And and again, it's how you present the
[01:04:19.920] data, right? And there were plenty there
[01:04:22.240] were still a few of the the old guard
[01:04:24.480] kind of hanging out that that could
[01:04:26.000] prevent me from being successful. Uh and
[01:04:28.400] some of them did not want to hear from
[01:04:29.680] me, right? They don't want to get the
[01:04:30.799] briefing. But every time I finally got
[01:04:32.960] to brief them, they were supportive.
[01:04:34.880] Every congressman I ever briefed, except
[01:04:36.559] for one, I I won't say who. And it gets
[01:04:39.039] back to the belief word. uh you know
[01:04:41.680] everybody understood where I was coming
[01:04:43.359] from and and the problem set and and
[01:04:45.599] that you know at the end of the day the
[01:04:47.920] business I built was working and it was
[01:04:51.200] and it was what we finally needed right
[01:04:54.559] it sort of reminds you of Michael
[01:04:56.559] Corleone just when I'm out I thought I
[01:04:58.880] was out they pulled me back in it's a
[01:05:00.559] kind of thing so he again he was not a
[01:05:03.520] UFO guy he was doing his job each of the
[01:05:06.240] times he was asked to do this he was
[01:05:08.160] doing his job and and you know something
[01:05:09.760] else he said that really uh impacted me
[01:05:11.680] was you know he was a really high rank
[01:05:13.520] and I don't want to get into exactly
[01:05:14.960] like how that works but you know we'd
[01:05:17.200] say an equivalent of let's just say
[01:05:19.599] really high rank so a lot of people
[01:05:21.599] could have pressured him because of
[01:05:23.200] their rank to try to uh diminish the
[01:05:26.559] work he was doing but he resisted that
[01:05:30.400] all along the way and did the right
[01:05:32.640] thing and I just I thought that was a
[01:05:34.400] really cool thing to hear from somebody
[01:05:36.160] and to know it to be true the public
[01:05:38.880] knows a lot about the role of Lou
[01:05:40.720] Alzando both in blowing the story wide
[01:05:42.880] open and and trying to get a bigger
[01:05:45.760] program and in bringing some of the
[01:05:48.079] aviators and other witnesses, escorting
[01:05:50.160] them to Congress. He and Chris Melon
[01:05:52.319] work on pu pushing that uh that ball
[01:05:54.799] down the field. Uh Jay Stratton is the
[01:05:57.440] unsung hero who is working in uh
[01:06:00.280] obscurity but doing the really the
[01:06:03.039] important stuff. Um and this was he
[01:06:06.240] didn't have a a program. It wasn't
[01:06:08.000] called the UAP task force. It was after
[01:06:10.400] that New York Times story and Congress
[01:06:12.559] starts asking questions that he was
[01:06:14.880] putting in charge of an inquiry, you
[01:06:17.440] know, to try to pull all the different
[01:06:19.200] strings together to to start pulling
[01:06:21.599] information together and cases and and
[01:06:24.240] getting a structure of an organization
[01:06:26.240] that became the UAP task force. Later
[01:06:28.640] on, Jr. started the UAP task force and
[01:06:31.599] that was huge for transparency on the
[01:06:33.760] subject. I do want to say you're like
[01:06:35.119] he's the unsung hero. I gotta say
[01:06:36.799] though, Lou gets a lot of grief that is
[01:06:39.520] not it's not valid grief. He's really
[01:06:42.400] endured a lot of slings and arrows as
[01:06:45.039] you say. So, it's like, you know, being
[01:06:46.640] a hero in this ain't what it cracked up
[01:06:48.400] to be maybe. I mean, it's, you know, he
[01:06:50.880] is to me absolutely a hero to this topic
[01:06:54.079] and I think uh it's important what what
[01:06:56.240] he's done. I think Jay coming forward
[01:06:58.640] with us on camera. I I think I hope he
[01:07:01.599] is treated uh differently because man,
[01:07:05.200] he's done great things and now the
[01:07:07.280] public's going to learn about them.
[01:07:08.559] Well, you remember at end of 2020,
[01:07:11.280] Congress says we want a program. In
[01:07:13.599] fact, we want a report. You got here's
[01:07:15.520] the legislation. We want that report.
[01:07:17.599] You got six months to write it. So
[01:07:19.359] January,
[01:07:21.039] uh Jay's organization starts working on
[01:07:23.200] it. the UAP task force. We're going to
[01:07:24.720] put this report together. And it's
[01:07:26.400] precisely that moment, he gets yanked
[01:07:28.400] out of it and it looked really
[01:07:29.680] suspicious. I remember I reported on it
[01:07:32.400] at exactly the time when you need him
[01:07:34.880] most when the most experienced guy in
[01:07:37.119] the US government on the UFO mystery is
[01:07:40.079] taken out of it and given another job.
[01:07:41.920] But he he actually was supposed to be
[01:07:44.000] doing that job all along. This was a
[01:07:45.760] temporary duty. So he has taken out the
[01:07:48.640] people who he had left there. They
[01:07:51.039] didn't have a full-time position. and
[01:07:52.720] didn't have any full-time positions,
[01:07:54.160] didn't have a budget here, put this
[01:07:56.319] report together for Congress, and I
[01:07:57.839] think they did a remarkable job in 6
[01:07:59.520] months to get it together. That's right.
[01:08:01.119] And and he had two people that were
[01:08:03.680] putting this report together. And I do
[01:08:06.160] agree it it was a phenomenal job. He
[01:08:08.559] even talked about why in the interviews
[01:08:10.319] with us, he even talked about why he
[01:08:12.079] started in 2004 rather than going back
[01:08:15.280] all the way through UFO history.
[01:08:16.560] Everybody's like, "Why did you start in
[01:08:17.759] 2004?" And he explains that really well,
[01:08:20.080] and there's a clip of it.
[01:08:22.640] So you get a lot of, you know, I I said
[01:08:25.359] on numerous occasions, right? Trust is
[01:08:27.440] important. You can't and you know, I
[01:08:29.279] think it was Coen Powell that said you
[01:08:30.640] can't surge
[01:08:31.799] trust. The minute you're you're I mean,
[01:08:34.640] we're already 70 years behind the power
[01:08:36.319] curve for trust, right? Because
[01:08:37.920] everybody says the government's lying to
[01:08:40.480] us, right? And that the whole blue book
[01:08:42.159] thing and the whole um Roswell thing
[01:08:44.960] killed killed trust, right? Um very good
[01:08:48.799] reason why not to even go there, right?
[01:08:50.239] in in in this whole discussion you the
[01:08:52.480] task force and everything else we kind
[01:08:53.679] of started 2004 right as as Mr. Ray said
[01:08:56.159] in the in the congressional hearings uh
[01:08:58.159] you got to start somewhere and uh in my
[01:09:02.080] recommendation when I created is that
[01:09:04.000] that 2004
[01:09:05.920] uh start date is important because that
[01:09:07.440] was the first case in recent history
[01:09:09.199] where I had pilot reporting and data
[01:09:11.359] right back to the data. But you take all
[01:09:13.920] that that trust and then you get this
[01:09:16.920] bureaucratic machine that is the
[01:09:19.279] department of defense and the and the
[01:09:20.960] intel community and then you know this
[01:09:23.199] is an inter agency whole of government.
[01:09:24.640] So now you're talking about Congress and
[01:09:26.719] you're talking about all the other
[01:09:28.480] departments, your DHS's and your
[01:09:30.719] transportation, right, with FAA and
[01:09:32.480] everybody else. Like you got to have uh
[01:09:35.600] a singular message and that's why I
[01:09:37.040] wanted the task force to have its own
[01:09:38.400] spoke spokesperson so that we're
[01:09:40.040] briefing as much as we can of of what
[01:09:42.880] we're dealing with. But so you get this
[01:09:44.640] whole machine and no matter how hard you
[01:09:46.880] try, email is not the best communication
[01:09:50.000] method, right? And hardly anybody picks
[01:09:52.319] up the phone these days. So what would
[01:09:54.640] happen to me is I would see a response
[01:09:56.560] from the DoD spokesperson that and I
[01:10:00.000] would say oh my gosh like why did we say
[01:10:01.440] that right? You come back and you try to
[01:10:02.960] clean up but there's no cleaning up at
[01:10:04.480] that point. So it's it was all that
[01:10:06.640] circular and then you had agendas right
[01:10:10.000] you still had uh I think you're probably
[01:10:12.480] aware of of lose previous and you know
[01:10:15.120] and you know you had that happening uh
[01:10:18.400] and that was also manipulating and
[01:10:20.239] driving you because again DoD is very
[01:10:22.400] rank conscious ranked structured
[01:10:24.400] organization right so if someone senior
[01:10:26.880] is is telling you to do something it's
[01:10:29.199] not illegal they're probably you know
[01:10:30.880] don't want to risk things and and go
[01:10:32.400] with it so I think you had some of that
[01:10:34.159] going on. Now, I'll tell you, even as
[01:10:36.080] the head of the task force, I didn't I
[01:10:38.719] didn't get into those politics on
[01:10:40.000] purpose. Uh, in fact, I I went back to
[01:10:42.320] my old days of Defense Intelligence
[01:10:44.000] Agency when I was saying, you know,
[01:10:45.120] we're nationally funded and I need to
[01:10:46.560] make an assessment that isn't
[01:10:47.760] manipulated by politics, which is
[01:10:49.679] actually the law now following 911. Um,
[01:10:53.040] I stuck to my guns that I I am here to,
[01:10:56.159] you know, work on behalf of the intel
[01:10:57.840] community to give the American people an
[01:10:59.199] answer. And on numerous occasions,
[01:11:01.760] anytime someone tried to play the rank
[01:11:03.760] game, I would just stick to my guns.
[01:11:06.239] Essentially, the idea that he would
[01:11:08.000] choose a date where they have a great
[01:11:09.600] amount of systems data and move forward
[01:11:11.600] from there, it makes total sense. And I
[01:11:13.600] I think that was a very smart move. I'm
[01:11:15.679] sure there is historic data that we can
[01:11:17.600] look at now, but I think that was a
[01:11:19.360] great starting point. So, that was very
[01:11:21.440] cool when he did that. And the two
[01:11:22.880] people that he tasked with with doing
[01:11:24.400] that report again did a remarkable job.
[01:11:26.560] There's something else he did that you
[01:11:28.320] and I have referenced in various reports
[01:11:30.719] without attributing it to him in any way
[01:11:33.280] because I couldn't couldn't use his
[01:11:34.640] name, but um there was a briefing
[01:11:36.960] presentation was put together and it was
[01:11:38.800] an accumulation of all these cases that
[01:11:41.360] Jay and his colleagues had been
[01:11:42.880] investigating and a lot of them were had
[01:11:45.520] included video and um and photos and
[01:11:48.800] things of that sort. And he put this
[01:11:50.880] together as a briefing presentation for
[01:11:52.960] higher-ups in the Pentagon, for members
[01:11:54.880] of Congress, for defense contractors
[01:11:57.280] when they and for the intelligence
[01:11:58.800] community. And he made the case, hey,
[01:12:00.640] this is real. This is a genuine unknown.
[01:12:02.880] This is a national security matter. We
[01:12:04.640] need to take a look at it. I understand
[01:12:06.719] it's a very persuasive uh uh piece of
[01:12:09.480] information, but some of the images that
[01:12:12.080] were in that briefing document. It's
[01:12:13.760] it's classified, but some of the images
[01:12:15.920] that came from that are not classified.
[01:12:18.880] the green footage from the USS
[01:12:22.040] Russell, which you know that George and
[01:12:24.960] I obtained and released. So, you know,
[01:12:27.360] somebody's filmed a screen and shouldn't
[01:12:29.440] have done that, but that's not me. It's
[01:12:30.640] journalist. There's shield law obtained
[01:12:33.120] and released, but you've seen it. They
[01:12:34.560] played it in Congress, right? Okay. The
[01:12:38.080] question about that is,
[01:12:42.400] was that to you the best of your
[01:12:43.920] knowledge, is that a camera artifact of
[01:12:46.239] the iris? that that the shape that you
[01:12:48.800] see in the green footage, we'll call it
[01:12:50.679] green, is that an artifact of the iris?
[01:12:53.679] To to my knowledge, based
[01:12:55.880] on three PhDs,
[01:12:58.800] uh it is the shape in that video is the
[01:13:02.880] shape that you're seeing and that it is
[01:13:04.320] a pyramid and that it is
[01:13:05.600] self-illuminating. It's a what? It's so
[01:13:08.080] that illumination is coming from the
[01:13:09.840] object itself. That's my understanding
[01:13:12.320] based on, you know, what I had. Three
[01:13:15.679] pages. You got three PhDs. You got three
[01:13:17.360] PhD people to look at it. I got three
[01:13:19.199] PhD people to look at it. You know, were
[01:13:21.280] they like optical physicists, but why go
[01:13:24.560] so far to show one video instead of
[01:13:27.040] three other videos that are out in the
[01:13:28.880] public that are collaborative visual
[01:13:30.239] evidence of one event and then say
[01:13:32.000] they're drones in I know who named them
[01:13:34.400] drones. So why did they do that? I don't
[01:13:37.280] know. Fair to say if it was a known US
[01:13:40.080] technology. I would have admitted that.
[01:13:42.320] Right. Right. I I I said it it was
[01:13:44.880] unknown.
[01:13:46.560] Have you personally seen the 23minute
[01:13:49.120] video that people talk about? Yes. Okay.
[01:13:52.159] With your own eyes.
[01:13:54.239] Well, the 23 Hold on. I should have
[01:13:56.960] asked which 23minute video. Oh, have you
[01:14:00.640] specifically seen the My video was 23
[01:14:02.640] minutes, just so you know. Roughly.
[01:14:04.159] Right. Right. So, the the
[01:14:08.360] so I can't confirm because I was trying
[01:14:10.719] to keep I don't even know the time
[01:14:11.920] because I was trying to keep it below 20
[01:14:13.360] minutes as best I could. confirmed nor
[01:14:15.040] deny. I know you made videos about Check
[01:14:17.840] this out. But that you're talking about
[01:14:19.760] a 23minute tic tac video. No, no. Okay.
[01:14:23.040] No, there is no longer tic tac video.
[01:14:25.440] That's absolutely correct. And I will
[01:14:27.120] absolutely Dave Fra told him 100 [ __ ]
[01:14:29.760] times. Okay. So, yep. Right. I mean,
[01:14:32.000] we'll be clear because we've been clear
[01:14:33.520] all along the way is as journalists
[01:14:35.760] obtaining and releasing unclassified
[01:14:37.920] information is absolutely fine. No
[01:14:40.640] designation, nothing like that. Sure,
[01:14:42.800] something can be contained within
[01:14:44.239] something classified. I don't know. What
[01:14:46.400] what I know for sure is that uh and it
[01:14:49.199] was confirmed by the Pentagon. That's
[01:14:50.480] stuff that that that we ended up
[01:14:51.920] releasing, especially regarding the the
[01:14:54.000] 2019 events on uh the West Coast, which
[01:14:58.000] which is something we've we've covered
[01:14:59.679] on an episode at length, uh one of our
[01:15:02.159] last episodes. And I I think that the
[01:15:06.640] the key thing here that I think people
[01:15:08.800] should know is that you've you've got
[01:15:11.600] this audiovisisual presentation that is
[01:15:15.520] being shared within multiple
[01:15:18.239] intelligence
[01:15:19.960] agencies. Why? The reason why appears to
[01:15:23.840] be to in to
[01:15:26.600] destigmatize to acclimate people to the
[01:15:29.600] possibility of how do you report this
[01:15:32.400] and to encourage reporting going right
[01:15:35.520] back up the chain of command where it
[01:15:36.960] should go which is a smooth and cool
[01:15:39.080] process. Problem was they didn't respond
[01:15:41.360] a lot to people when they would report
[01:15:42.719] it up and they realized that was an
[01:15:44.239] error and that they should give feedback
[01:15:45.920] so people know these reports are going
[01:15:47.520] somewhere. We're taking them seriously.
[01:15:50.560] uh he also needed to find a a way to get
[01:15:53.199] beyond NDAs, right? Because sometimes
[01:15:55.679] you just overclassify stuff and people
[01:15:57.280] have to do an NDA because something was
[01:15:59.120] seen or picked up and they they have to
[01:16:01.520] go through the the process of getting
[01:16:03.280] past NDAs, which I don't know if he ever
[01:16:05.360] got, but I think that's important moving
[01:16:06.960] forward for, you know, for Arrow if it's
[01:16:08.960] going to do some great work. Yeah. A lot
[01:16:10.960] of those cases that were part of his
[01:16:12.640] briefing presentation
[01:16:14.640] uh ended up as part of the UAP task
[01:16:17.120] force report to Congress. uh they didn't
[01:16:19.440] spell it out in a lot in any instances,
[01:16:22.080] but we know that that is the case and
[01:16:24.239] that the Congress did respond and did
[01:16:26.080] take it seriously. Jay Stratton left
[01:16:28.480] government uh in 2021 and and entered
[01:16:32.719] the private sector. He was happy to move
[01:16:34.560] to Huntsville, Alabama to work for
[01:16:36.159] Radiance. He was happy to bring Travis
[01:16:38.320] Taylor along and and as we know, you
[01:16:40.800] know, we've been able to share at least
[01:16:42.640] a couple of excerpts from this interview
[01:16:44.239] that we did. Uh there's a lot more
[01:16:47.120] coming from Jay Stratton, I think. Oh, I
[01:16:49.040] know. Yeah, I we know. I mean, he is
[01:16:51.840] making it a point to communicate as
[01:16:53.520] clearly as possible with the American
[01:16:55.440] public about his roles, what he did,
[01:16:57.840] what he hopes for the future with this,
[01:16:59.280] what's currently going on. I I think
[01:17:01.600] it's great that people will be seeing a
[01:17:03.600] lot of him, that he'll be coming and
[01:17:05.360] talking about uh his roles and
[01:17:07.440] experiences. I I think when you can put
[01:17:09.600] a face, you know what I mean, to these
[01:17:11.280] people that were really before the
[01:17:12.800] unsung heroes. I mean, the Intel
[01:17:14.080] community, people are deep inside. They
[01:17:15.280] don't want to be in front of a camera.
[01:17:16.640] But now that people come forward a
[01:17:18.400] little bit and give other people the
[01:17:20.480] encouragement and the permission, I
[01:17:23.120] think that that's very powerful for
[01:17:25.199] witnesses that have been part of UFO
[01:17:28.560] exploitation and reverse engineering
[01:17:30.480] programs and legacy programs or current
[01:17:33.040] programs to come forward through the new
[01:17:36.000] legislation that has been passed into
[01:17:37.760] law that protects whistleblowers. And in
[01:17:40.080] fact, it's not just a right to come
[01:17:41.520] forward. In fact, it's a duty. If there
[01:17:44.800] have been programs that have been hidden
[01:17:46.960] from congressional oversight, proper
[01:17:48.880] congressional oversight, you have a
[01:17:50.560] legal duty to come forward. So, I really
[01:17:53.040] hope people are encouraged by this in
[01:17:55.360] these programs that we do know exist
[01:17:57.520] that they do come forward and that they
[01:17:59.920] they share with our Senate Intelligence
[01:18:02.000] Committee or whatever the process is at
[01:18:03.520] this point to get this information
[01:18:05.600] forward then hopefully out to American
[01:18:07.600] public. This technology is important,
[01:18:09.679] man. I I totally agree. You know, I I
[01:18:12.000] want to say this also about Jay
[01:18:13.760] Stratton. Although I've been allowed to
[01:18:15.840] know of him and then to know him, he is
[01:18:18.800] not a source. He did not leak any of
[01:18:20.719] these images to us. This is a guy who
[01:18:22.880] plays by the rules. It drove me crazy uh
[01:18:25.440] to know a guy like that who could answer
[01:18:27.600] these questions and who could has access
[01:18:30.320] to all kinds of materials that I have
[01:18:32.480] not seen, that you haven't seen, that
[01:18:33.920] the public hasn't seen, but he played by
[01:18:35.679] the rules. He he is a stickler about
[01:18:37.520] that. Now that he's in the uh private
[01:18:40.239] sector and he is a p a public citizen, a
[01:18:42.880] a private citizen, he has a lot more
[01:18:45.040] flexibility to pursue these subjects.
[01:18:47.520] He's definitely hooked on it now. If he
[01:18:49.920] wasn't before, he is now. And we're
[01:18:51.920] going to hear a lot more from him in
[01:18:53.280] 2023. But I just want to make it clear,
[01:18:55.440] he's not a leaker. He didn't leak any
[01:18:57.280] stuff to us. You know, it's so funny,
[01:19:00.000] man. Um people are going to try to to,
[01:19:02.800] you know, I would too try to guess like
[01:19:04.800] how this work. Everybody's been wrong.
[01:19:07.440] Everybody's been wrong about how
[01:19:09.280] information gets to journalists. I, you
[01:19:11.920] know, we don't need to, you know,
[01:19:13.280] constantly tell you. We would never have
[01:19:15.120] a source on. But the thing is is like,
[01:19:17.040] what does it mean to be a source?
[01:19:18.719] Sometimes you and I have received stuff
[01:19:22.960] that we don't know exactly who or where
[01:19:26.320] it came from. So our job for years
[01:19:28.480] sometimes which is what's now a lot of
[01:19:30.719] that's coming out but like for years is
[01:19:33.120] to figure out the validity of
[01:19:34.760] information rather than the source of
[01:19:37.080] information. That's interesting isn't
[01:19:39.199] that that's something unexpected to me.
[01:19:41.679] You know the the uh the people who are
[01:19:43.920] real heroes in this uh saga this ongoing
[01:19:46.719] saga Dr. James Latsky who sing almost
[01:19:50.199] single-handedly with the help of Harry
[01:19:52.159] Reid and Robert Bigalow got the OAP
[01:19:54.000] program created and then Lou Alzando who
[01:19:57.199] rescued the remnants of it and got ATIP
[01:19:59.520] and kept it going and then uh Jay
[01:20:02.960] Stratton who was part of all of this all
[01:20:05.840] those programs and beyond into the
[01:20:08.159] current era uh you know he might be the
[01:20:10.480] most important UFO uh government UFO
[01:20:13.520] investigator ever of all of them and uh
[01:20:16.480] it's so great to be able to talk to him.
[01:20:18.400] We have so much more that we haven't
[01:20:20.800] been able to share yet, but we will uh
[01:20:23.040] over the next course of the year and
[01:20:24.800] hopefully he'll be here live sometime.
[01:20:26.640] Yeah. And and and look, this uh program
[01:20:29.280] or whatever this this audio and visual
[01:20:31.640] program, it's because we know we can now
[01:20:34.239] now we're going to have people here.
[01:20:35.760] It's it's every time we're able to use
[01:20:38.080] this to get stuff out that you and I
[01:20:40.159] wouldn't normally be able to get out in
[01:20:41.760] any traditional means. So, I I am
[01:20:43.520] excited. It would be great right here if
[01:20:45.679] there was somebody who worked in one of
[01:20:48.719] the government UFO programs that could
[01:20:50.800] sit right here next to us. Wouldn't that
[01:20:52.719] be great? Well, look at the look at the
[01:20:55.120] the wheels that are turning because of
[01:20:56.960] the the work of the guys I just
[01:20:58.560] mentioned. You know, Lasky, Colum
[01:21:00.320] Kellaher, Lou Alzando, Jay Stratton. Uh
[01:21:03.280] the work that they did toiling in
[01:21:05.199] obscurity for so many years is really
[01:21:07.760] paying dividends. I mean, this is not a
[01:21:09.760] a terrific report, but it the fact that
[01:21:12.320] it exists at all is amazing. The fact
[01:21:14.320] that they have now have a streamlined
[01:21:15.920] process and have taken away some of the
[01:21:18.000] stigma attached to reporting UFOs is
[01:21:20.880] amazing progress in a in a short period
[01:21:22.960] of time. And Congress maintaining an
[01:21:26.640] ongoing interest in this. They're
[01:21:28.080] demanding more information. Um, we don't
[01:21:30.480] know what's in the classified version of
[01:21:31.920] this, but it's exciting. It's awesome.
[01:21:33.600] And you know the the legislation that
[01:21:36.320] offers protection to whistleblowers is
[01:21:38.880] also very exciting that we're going to
[01:21:40.400] be exploring over the next 9 10 months.
[01:21:42.960] Is this George Knap being optimistic
[01:21:45.840] about the topic? Let me take it back.
[01:21:48.480] No, you can't take it back. I heard it
[01:21:49.920] loud and clear. It sounded like George
[01:21:51.360] Nap is being optimistic about UFO
[01:21:53.520] transparency in some way. Look, man,
[01:21:55.679] we're only going to get as far as we
[01:21:57.199] push it. Nobody wants to give up
[01:21:59.120] information uh you know, if it's special
[01:22:02.000] to them. There's no reason to, but I
[01:22:04.480] think if the public demands it, we ask
[01:22:06.960] nicely and shake the doors a little bit.
[01:22:09.840] Look, there are great people within our
[01:22:13.199] the majority of our armed services, our
[01:22:16.080] intelligence agencies, you know, they
[01:22:19.040] are just like us. They're curious about
[01:22:21.040] this. They're excited about it. If it's
[01:22:22.960] not a matter of national security, this
[01:22:24.800] is stuff that that should be told to the
[01:22:26.960] American public. So, I am very
[01:22:28.480] optimistic by nature, but it was kind of
[01:22:30.080] cool to hear some optimism from you.
[01:22:32.400] you're not so optimistic sometimes when
[01:22:34.880] it comes to traveling because of your
[01:22:36.480] curse. And I want to finish this trip
[01:22:38.320] and remind you what happened. So, we are
[01:22:41.679] we do these great interviews and and
[01:22:43.920] we're we're just stoked, man. It was
[01:22:45.440] really fun. We met really interesting
[01:22:48.480] folks that we ended up, you know, having
[01:22:50.159] friendships with along the way who I'm
[01:22:52.480] sure you will hear from in the future
[01:22:53.840] who are involved in this topic deeply.
[01:22:57.440] Uh so we're like, okay, let's just get
[01:22:59.360] home. And of course, we're on some
[01:23:00.800] horrible airline. There's this photo I
[01:23:02.880] put up on social media. We look like
[01:23:04.480] gorillas, man. We're we're we have our
[01:23:06.800] bags and we're just walking down this
[01:23:08.800] runway just trying to get on this plane.
[01:23:10.960] We're all masked up cuz guess what?
[01:23:12.639] Turns out, Niles, if CO didn't kill you,
[01:23:15.679] I was going to kill you. My buddy who we
[01:23:18.080] were with all week had really bad CO. I
[01:23:20.159] mean, bleeding coughs and I was like,
[01:23:21.520] "Oh, man. You and I, we escaped it. We
[01:23:24.719] thought we escaped it." There we are in
[01:23:26.159] the plane and then we get this lightning
[01:23:28.560] storm. I have never seen so much
[01:23:30.400] lightning in my life out of window. It
[01:23:32.400] was like it just felt like doom because
[01:23:34.000] of your travel curse. But we got back
[01:23:37.040] and we still had to sit on this story
[01:23:38.960] for we had to sit on the story up until
[01:23:41.120] now in a lot of ways. So it was, you
[01:23:42.960] know, it's funny like as a journalist,
[01:23:44.639] you've probably dealt with this like
[01:23:45.760] tons, but you got to really respect that
[01:23:49.520] someone gives you their trust and
[01:23:51.040] they're allowing you to do this. So you
[01:23:53.920] got to time everything right. You can't
[01:23:56.159] just throw something up on YouTube or
[01:23:58.400] throw something out on Twitter. You have
[01:24:00.400] to do it responsibly. Check everything
[01:24:03.199] before you do it. And god forbid you
[01:24:05.360] make a mistake, but if you do, you say
[01:24:07.199] it right. So that was kind of a neat
[01:24:09.760] trip. We get back and um man, we were
[01:24:13.280] tired, but we got what we needed. Yeah.
[01:24:15.679] I you know, we got so much material from
[01:24:18.639] Dr. Taylor and from Jay Stratton and the
[01:24:21.280] folks at Radiance and then the people
[01:24:23.040] other people we met at the SCU
[01:24:24.560] conference and we were really excited to
[01:24:26.800] go ahead and share it with the public,
[01:24:28.080] but it takes time. You know, we didn't
[01:24:29.920] have the okay to go ahead and spill all
[01:24:31.679] those beans. We do now. We have
[01:24:33.600] permission from Jay to use some parts of
[01:24:35.920] that interview and I think we're
[01:24:37.520] probably going to be using more in the
[01:24:39.040] future and hopefully we'll be hearing
[01:24:41.280] from him live, maybe on this stage and
[01:24:43.199] maybe on other stages. Okay. So, so
[01:24:45.120] what's what's the big picture now? like
[01:24:47.120] as we do these and we try to put these
[01:24:49.280] pieces together for public consumption
[01:24:51.760] and here we are in 2023 you know what's
[01:24:54.719] the big picture man where are we going
[01:24:56.400] with this from reports to Arrow to other
[01:24:59.760] agencies we know that are interested in
[01:25:01.840] the UFO subject like where are we going
[01:25:03.600] with this man well we know that because
[01:25:05.520] of that legislation there are
[01:25:07.440] whistleblowers who are lined up at least
[01:25:09.600] a few of them that we know of who are
[01:25:11.199] lined up prepared to tell what they know
[01:25:13.600] uh the most interesting unanswered
[01:25:15.600] question is Where are the goodies? Is
[01:25:17.920] there meta materials uh stashed in a
[01:25:20.560] warehouse? Are there intact craft as Bob
[01:25:23.040] Lazar suggested somewhere out in the
[01:25:24.960] desert? Uh are there bodies? You know,
[01:25:27.199] there are people who have told us that
[01:25:29.679] they know that those things are true,
[01:25:31.360] that there are materials, exotic
[01:25:34.000] materials from somewhere else. The
[01:25:35.840] question is, are they going to be
[01:25:37.199] allowed to speak? Now, I did express a
[01:25:39.360] little bit of optimism a couple of
[01:25:40.800] minutes ago, but I think for them, it's
[01:25:43.120] still a dicey deal. you know, um
[01:25:45.280] stepping forward to tell these
[01:25:47.199] incredibly sensitive uh secrets um comes
[01:25:51.120] with risk and and we know that there are
[01:25:53.760] at least some of them who are already
[01:25:55.280] facing uh potential consequences for
[01:25:58.320] agreeing to step forward. Hopefully, the
[01:26:01.520] stories will come out. The information
[01:26:03.280] will be conveyed to Congress. Whether or
[01:26:05.040] not that information gets to us, the
[01:26:07.199] public, that's another matter, but we'll
[01:26:08.960] be doing our best to get it out. the
[01:26:11.239] process designed through the whisb
[01:26:14.320] protection stuff, the idea of using
[01:26:16.960] something like the inspector general to
[01:26:18.880] to move forward with with complaints of
[01:26:21.679] reprisal and this sort of thing. I I
[01:26:24.000] think it is fair to say because we've
[01:26:25.199] we've said before that process whether
[01:26:28.480] or not it has been formalized, there are
[01:26:31.199] people in this subject who are using the
[01:26:34.239] right mechanisms to get the information
[01:26:36.800] where it needs to go out of fear of
[01:26:38.719] reprisal. That is something current that
[01:26:42.159] is happening. So I'm I'm encouraged that
[01:26:44.880] that process is there to protect people.
[01:26:47.360] Ultimate goal, let's just say it like it
[01:26:49.480] is. There are UFO study programs in
[01:26:53.520] multiple agencies across every branch of
[01:26:55.760] our military, many of which we know
[01:26:57.920] about. The idea is can they go through a
[01:27:00.639] formal process to bring those illegal
[01:27:02.719] programs to where they should go. This
[01:27:04.880] shouldn't be a job of journalism. This
[01:27:06.320] should be a job of cleaning house. This
[01:27:08.400] should be something that they do on the
[01:27:09.840] inside. Journalists do what they do.
[01:27:11.840] This should be clear and
[01:27:13.159] straightforward. If if there are unknown
[01:27:15.600] illegal programs dealing with
[01:27:16.800] non-aterrestrial technologies, yes,
[01:27:18.560] that's a huge issue for humanity. But
[01:27:21.440] this also needs to be fixed on the
[01:27:23.360] inside. Absolutely. And uh you know th
[01:27:26.000] this report for example, there's a line
[01:27:27.679] in there that I found pretty
[01:27:28.800] interesting. It says that we have no
[01:27:30.560] evidence of any uh direct human health
[01:27:33.040] consequences of exposure to UFOs.
[01:27:36.320] I can hope that sometime in the next 12
[01:27:39.600] months that the Arrow folks will go down
[01:27:42.400] down the hall and knock on the door at
[01:27:44.159] the DIA and ask to see the OAP files
[01:27:46.960] because OAP, as we have reported, has
[01:27:49.520] very definitive evidence about harmful
[01:27:52.400] consequences from people who got too
[01:27:54.639] close to UFOs. Um, and there are some
[01:27:57.199] very dramatic and well doumented cases
[01:27:59.360] that uh that the DIA program uh followed
[01:28:02.560] for a number of years. So, having seen
[01:28:05.440] these some of these reports, the the the
[01:28:08.960] thing you're saying is that Arrow, who's
[01:28:12.080] studying the UFO phenomenon, they should
[01:28:14.800] already have all this documentation of a
[01:28:17.360] huge program like OEP that clearly shows
[01:28:20.320] that there have been health issues that
[01:28:22.480] have been caused directly from close
[01:28:24.880] proximity to UAP, right? And they don't
[01:28:29.199] seem to have any knowledge of that. It
[01:28:30.719] was similar to the two guys who appeared
[01:28:32.719] before the congressional hearing, the
[01:28:34.480] first congressional hearing in 54 years
[01:28:36.480] when they were asked about nuclear
[01:28:38.400] incidents, incidents or nuclear missile
[01:28:40.400] bases. They don't know anything about
[01:28:41.840] it. Well, there are some pretty dramatic
[01:28:43.840] cases that were studied also by OSAP
[01:28:46.480] that were written up into reports. All
[01:28:48.400] they have to do is ask for it. Congress
[01:28:50.400] seemed uh to only know a little bits and
[01:28:53.920] pieces. They were unaware, seemingly
[01:28:55.920] unaware that OAP ever existed. when the
[01:28:58.800] Navy guys were asked, "Is there anything
[01:29:00.639] between Project Blue Book and ATIP?"
[01:29:02.400] Nope. Well, that's not true. I mean, you
[01:29:05.280] know, it was it was uh a lot of money.
[01:29:07.440] Millions of public dollars were spent on
[01:29:09.520] that. The the stories have been all over
[01:29:12.080] the world. The book has been written.
[01:29:14.000] The the people who are involved in the
[01:29:15.679] program have come forward and talked
[01:29:17.040] about it. How can they not know? Yeah.
[01:29:20.159] Yeah, man. So, I guess, you know, kind
[01:29:22.239] of where we're at here is it would be
[01:29:24.480] really great to hear from somebody who
[01:29:26.159] actually worked in these programs. Uh,
[01:29:28.080] and and I think we're going to get that
[01:29:29.360] pretty soon. Um, you know, thanks for
[01:29:31.440] kind of telling us uh about the report
[01:29:33.920] and getting to to the point we're at. I
[01:29:36.239] guess where I'm at is I I'm just excited
[01:29:38.400] to see kind of how this is all
[01:29:41.080] assimilated into our processes. Like, so
[01:29:44.480] that I want the American public to know
[01:29:47.760] if this is true. I you know I have I
[01:29:50.320] don't have the luxury of disbelief on
[01:29:51.679] certain things but I want it to be
[01:29:53.520] stated and boldly stated. I don't know
[01:29:55.520] when that's going to come and what the
[01:29:57.280] truth is or what the full truth is but I
[01:29:59.440] think we're getting closer. Well the
[01:30:01.520] public also needs to understand as OAP
[01:30:04.320] came to realize that this is way beyond
[01:30:07.040] just UFOs. You're never going to solve
[01:30:09.280] this mystery just by studying lights in
[01:30:11.360] the sky uh or craft that appear on a
[01:30:14.639] sensor and you can't see with your own
[01:30:16.320] eyes. You have to look at the big
[01:30:17.760] picture and unfortunately a lot of that
[01:30:20.239] gets really weird. So strange maybe it's
[01:30:23.440] almost by design that it's so strange
[01:30:25.520] that uh people are reluctant to to dig
[01:30:27.920] into it. That's how many in in the
[01:30:30.639] Pentagon seemingly reacted to the
[01:30:32.560] reports that came in from OAP from the
[01:30:34.880] Big Low organization. It gets really
[01:30:37.199] strange. The stuff at Skinwalker is
[01:30:38.960] really strange. It's easy to make fun
[01:30:40.560] of. It's easy to dismiss because it's so
[01:30:43.280] strange. But it happened. Uh it really
[01:30:45.520] did happen and the reports that have not
[01:30:47.760] yet been made public uh lay it out in
[01:30:50.239] very specific detail and we're going to
[01:30:51.840] be getting into that more in the course
[01:30:53.199] of the next few months on this program.
[01:30:54.960] Absolutely. And I I just want to kind of
[01:30:56.719] testify here that like I think I'm nuts
[01:30:59.120] and bolts. You know, my family thinks
[01:31:01.520] I'm just [ __ ] nuts. But but but the
[01:31:04.960] thing is is that I I have a resistance.
[01:31:07.840] I have a resistance to the high
[01:31:09.440] stranges, to the weirdness, to the
[01:31:10.960] things that seem to happen around the
[01:31:13.920] UFO phenomenon. I am cool with Bob
[01:31:17.920] Lazar's description of craft as an
[01:31:20.560] example. That's what initially the
[01:31:22.159] science of that, how that would work. I
[01:31:24.560] am cool with the nuts and bolts. Uh, I
[01:31:27.360] get an allergy when it comes to the
[01:31:29.360] weirder stuff and you know, so I even
[01:31:33.040] with everything I know, have seen and
[01:31:35.120] been briefed on. I but I have an allergy
[01:31:37.440] to it. So I can understand the the
[01:31:39.679] public, you know, kind of trying to be
[01:31:41.520] like that's too weird to be true. We can
[01:31:44.560] accept flying saucers. We can accept
[01:31:46.639] UFOs. We can accept reverse engineering
[01:31:48.639] and government's hiding this and there
[01:31:50.320] being a cover up to some degree. We can
[01:31:51.920] accept that. But when it gets weirder, I
[01:31:55.199] empathize with the the resistance to it.
[01:31:57.679] Now, I'm going to try I'm going to try
[01:31:59.600] to look at straight and say, you know,
[01:32:02.320] uh look at it just like I would anything
[01:32:03.679] else. But I think hearing from people
[01:32:05.800] directly who have direct experiences in
[01:32:08.400] these programs, that's going to be the
[01:32:10.159] key to understanding that. Well, Dr.
[01:32:12.639] James Latsky spent 20 years as a rocket
[01:32:15.679] scientist at the DIA. That's as nuts and
[01:32:18.000] bolts as you get. Studying rockets, our
[01:32:20.000] rockets, uh, other nations rockets,
[01:32:22.639] potential threats. Jay Stratton, his
[01:32:24.560] friend and colleague, also at the DIA,
[01:32:27.040] nuts and bolts guy, reverse engineering,
[01:32:29.280] how to figure out technology, figuring
[01:32:31.440] out the nature of threats um, of of all
[01:32:34.560] sorts, both nuts and bolts people who
[01:32:37.199] came to understand that this mystery
[01:32:38.960] goes way beyond nuts and bolts. Jay
[01:32:40.880] Stratton, we we've heard from him today
[01:32:43.120] in pieces of the conversation that you
[01:32:45.199] and I had with him. What we haven't
[01:32:46.719] heard is some of his personal
[01:32:48.040] experiences and uh that goes way beyond
[01:32:50.880] just uh studying lights in the sky. Uh
[01:32:53.280] and hopefully sometime in the course of
[01:32:55.719] 2023 he's going to open up about that.
[01:32:58.239] Yeah. Well, look, man, I'm looking
[01:32:59.520] forward to it. As always, I'm I'm
[01:33:01.360] willing to learn. Uh and and you know,
[01:33:03.920] the the main thing is um I I I think
[01:33:06.320] that having those direct conversations
[01:33:09.360] are going to help round the corners for
[01:33:11.920] a lot of people, including myself. So,
[01:33:13.600] anyway, thanks, man. That was pretty
[01:33:14.880] fun. Was fun. Yeah. All right.
[01:33:19.840] Oh my god.
[01:33:21.840] [Music]
[01:33:24.320] Oh my god.
[01:33:28.840] Never has so few had so much to tell but
[01:33:33.440] could say so little.