“Zero Doubt” Non-Human Intelligence on Earth - Colonel Karl Nell and Alex Klokus

• Source: YouTube
• Channel / outlet: SALT
• Speakers: Colonel Karl E. Nell and Alex Klokus
• Recorded: 2024-05-21 at SALT iConnections New York
• Published: 2024-05-22
• Duration: 21:36
• Sourced: 2026-08-14
• Extraction: Complete English auto-generated YouTube captions retrieved with /code/scripts/youtube_transcript.py.
• Fidelity: Verbatim machine captions with source timestamps. Capitalization, punctuation, speaker boundaries, and proper nouns are not independently corrected; verify exact quotations against the video.
• Related: ../../sources/nell-sol-foundation-statements

Transcript

[00:00:02.430] [Music]
[00:00:08.559] hello
[00:00:10.960] everyone thank you for coming this
[00:00:14.040] evening I'm glad that we are the final
[00:00:16.440] talk of this year's salt
[00:00:18.800] event and I'm very excited to discuss
[00:00:22.560] what I consider to be one of the most
[00:00:24.279] consequential
[00:00:25.800] questions of our lifetime which is are
[00:00:28.480] we alone in the universe and I'm very
[00:00:31.800] lucky to have Carl Nell here joining me
[00:00:35.680] for this conversation Carl thank you so
[00:00:37.480] much for coming and Anthony and AJ over
[00:00:39.840] at Salt thank you so much for for
[00:00:41.840] hosting this uh so Carl maybe to begin
[00:00:46.199] can you share a little bit about your
[00:00:48.039] background who you are and perhaps why
[00:00:50.320] people should care what you say sure
[00:00:53.719] well well thanks Alex it's a pleasure
[00:00:55.320] and honor to be here and it's a
[00:00:56.840] fantastic event and uh I I'm glad to see
[00:01:00.600] uh a large bunch of folks that stuck it
[00:01:02.280] out to the end for this uh for this talk
[00:01:05.360] uh so I was fortunate I had a a
[00:01:07.280] four-year RTC scholarship to Penn I
[00:01:10.000] graduated uh with a degree in electrical
[00:01:12.040] engineering the Army uh sent me overseas
[00:01:14.720] to do uh signal core engineering
[00:01:16.840] projects so I did a lot of strategic
[00:01:18.439] comp projects in Europe I ended up uh
[00:01:21.200] working in Army space command I
[00:01:23.079] commanded a satellite ground station War
[00:01:25.880] Trace to the Joint Chiefs I spent some
[00:01:28.280] time at uh right p an Air Force Base the
[00:01:31.759] Army ultimately sent me to get a
[00:01:33.560] master's in mechanical engineering a
[00:01:35.520] master's in strategic studies graduate
[00:01:38.040] work in computer science I was on track
[00:01:41.439] to stay in uh but I decided that I
[00:01:43.560] wanted to pursue more of a technical
[00:01:45.560] career uh so I got out and ended up
[00:01:47.600] working at Bell Labs which was a
[00:01:49.439] fantastic Place unfortunately I was
[00:01:51.880] there during the tresure that folks may
[00:01:54.600] be familiar with where the company got
[00:01:56.000] split up I left Bell labs and ended up
[00:01:58.840] working in lock missiles in space I
[00:02:00.960] worked at North R Grumman I've ran uh
[00:02:04.039] strategic uh technology programs in the
[00:02:07.159] defense industry work for a lot of the
[00:02:09.280] three-letter agencies ultimately was a
[00:02:11.879] deputy chief of staff or Deputy uh CTO
[00:02:14.879] for uh 2 billion doll company I was a
[00:02:17.640] vice president general manager of a uh
[00:02:20.440] Northern Virginia based R&D firm uh I
[00:02:23.360] stayed in the military uh uh in the
[00:02:25.640] Reserve I commanded at every grade level
[00:02:28.239] through Brigade I was fortunate to
[00:02:30.000] standup the Army's newest expeditionary
[00:02:32.400] of my Brigade I was the Deputy Chief of
[00:02:34.879] Staff for combatant command uh
[00:02:37.280] ultimately this experience sort of
[00:02:38.879] combined to give me the opportunity to
[00:02:41.440] come in and advise uh Army uh Futures
[00:02:44.760] command the largest reorganization in
[00:02:46.800] the Army Reserve uh since uh since
[00:02:49.959] really 1973 on how the Army could be
[00:02:52.760] more effective and my last assignment
[00:02:55.680] was involved with the UAP task force
[00:02:57.800] which maybe is the most aopo
[00:03:00.480] uh for this discussion and so Carl
[00:03:02.959] here's here's the million-dollar
[00:03:04.519] question do you believe that a higher
[00:03:08.080] form of non-human intelligence has
[00:03:10.920] visited this planet right so non-human
[00:03:15.080] intelligence exists non-human
[00:03:17.239] intelligence has been interacting with
[00:03:19.000] Humanity this interaction is not new and
[00:03:22.440] it's been ongoing and there are
[00:03:24.480] unelected people in the government that
[00:03:26.799] are aware of that and and so Carl that
[00:03:30.000] is quite a bold statement um I'm
[00:03:34.480] wondering and I'm curious how confident
[00:03:37.040] are you that that is true there's zero
[00:03:41.439] doubt and and Carl what evidence have
[00:03:46.000] you seen what was the moment where you
[00:03:48.920] developed this level of conviction
[00:03:50.799] because what you're saying is extremely
[00:03:52.720] consequential and very important and I
[00:03:54.720] know that a lot of people here even
[00:03:57.560] perhaps may not believe that statement
[00:03:59.599] right right well probably a better way
[00:04:02.640] to ask that is how can the folks in the
[00:04:04.400] audience come to the you know a uh
[00:04:07.879] common understanding of what this
[00:04:09.280] phenomenon is and so there's sort of two
[00:04:11.799] tracks here one is from first principles
[00:04:15.280] and another is actually from the data so
[00:04:17.519] so let's take a look at the data so we
[00:04:19.840] can look at some folks that have uh very
[00:04:22.720] high level uh access to information like
[00:04:26.040] Paul helier who was the defense chief
[00:04:28.080] for Canada has come out and said said
[00:04:29.919] the same thing we can look at ham Eed uh
[00:04:33.280] the head of Israel's or former head of
[00:04:35.639] Israel's space force has said the same
[00:04:38.280] thing Chris melon assistant Deputy
[00:04:41.120] assistant secretary for Intel sapco has
[00:04:44.520] essentially said the same thing Lou
[00:04:47.080] alzando has said the same thing David
[00:04:49.199] grush has said the same thing David
[00:04:51.199] grush cleared for presidentially level
[00:04:53.440] material so you're looking at people
[00:04:56.080] that are in a position to know this and
[00:04:58.320] they're telling you the same thing
[00:05:00.360] you could take a look at the gang of
[00:05:01.800] eight in the Senate and in Congress so
[00:05:05.160] there's two members of the gang of eight
[00:05:06.680] marubio and Senator truck Schumer that
[00:05:09.600] signed up to the UAP disclosure
[00:05:12.240] Amendment last year that basically said
[00:05:15.520] they're not being told the truth and we
[00:05:17.280] need to push forward on that so that's
[00:05:19.600] sort of an overview of some of the the
[00:05:21.720] data from a first principal standpoint
[00:05:24.680] what's so unusual about this um
[00:05:27.800] realization there's billions of star in
[00:05:30.000] the galaxy life here evolved in 500
[00:05:33.199] million years which is basically a blink
[00:05:34.720] of an eye we' found planets around every
[00:05:37.160] Star that we've looked at it's likely
[00:05:39.280] that the universe is full of life if you
[00:05:41.680] look at the seti program in particular
[00:05:44.080] the seti program has all the same
[00:05:46.160] assumptions that you would uh accept and
[00:05:48.880] probably make with respect to this topic
[00:05:51.680] except that they believe that non-human
[00:05:54.080] intelligence is transmitting signals
[00:05:56.560] here but at the same time like we're not
[00:05:59.199] transmitting signals signal city is
[00:06:01.479] doesn't transmit signals and the only
[00:06:03.720] signals that are actually broadcast of
[00:06:05.440] high enough power into space for
[00:06:06.800] somebody to pick up come from broadcast
[00:06:09.160] television and ballistic missile early
[00:06:11.120] Warning Systems which you could argue
[00:06:13.759] our technolog is moving away from we're
[00:06:15.599] going to satellite we're going to fiber
[00:06:17.360] broadcast TV is a thing of the past and
[00:06:19.800] if you get to some state where Society
[00:06:21.880] is stable maybe we don't need ballistic
[00:06:24.199] missile warning system so so the other
[00:06:26.960] guy is probably not going to transmit
[00:06:29.599] but what the other guy may do is come
[00:06:31.440] here if that's possible to do and
[00:06:33.560] there's there's physics models that
[00:06:35.160] suggest that that may be possible and
[00:06:37.680] and Carl I mean what you're saying is
[00:06:39.520] extremely consequential and you've
[00:06:40.800] referenced other people that have said
[00:06:43.479] the same thing that also have similar
[00:06:46.440] credibility um there's similar reasons
[00:06:49.080] for why we should believe many of these
[00:06:50.599] folks yet the government itself has not
[00:06:53.599] formally disclosed they've been very
[00:06:55.319] reluctant to do that why why do you
[00:06:57.840] think that is so there's six basic
[00:07:00.840] reasons and this again you could draw
[00:07:03.280] this out from first principles there's a
[00:07:05.199] national security reason there's the
[00:07:07.039] lack of a plan there's the potential for
[00:07:09.440] societal disruption there's the
[00:07:11.440] possibility that there's some non-public
[00:07:13.360] agreement there's the potential for
[00:07:15.400] misdeeds and the and the desire to cover
[00:07:17.639] up misdeeds and there's just the basic
[00:07:19.840] organizational intransigence and lack of
[00:07:22.319] priority that might be associated with
[00:07:24.199] the topic so all these things are
[00:07:26.199] factors the the issue is that really the
[00:07:28.319] national security issue
[00:07:30.199] subsumes all the others and so there's
[00:07:32.720] an opportunity maybe to to contract the
[00:07:35.160] national security issue similarly to
[00:07:37.400] what was done with nuclear weapons and
[00:07:39.599] nuclear energy such that nuclear energy
[00:07:42.199] is not necessarily classified and is
[00:07:44.039] available to the public but lack of a
[00:07:46.520] plan and the potential for societal
[00:07:48.240] disruption are key ingredients that
[00:07:50.639] would prevent any responsible leader
[00:07:52.879] from coming forward with information
[00:07:54.720] that they don't have the means to
[00:07:56.280] address in a responsible way it would be
[00:07:58.560] irresponsible to do that okay so so what
[00:08:01.919] you're saying is that you have absolute
[00:08:04.159] conviction that a higher form of
[00:08:05.960] non-human intelligence has visited this
[00:08:07.759] planet that there are factions within
[00:08:09.919] our own government that know about this
[00:08:13.360] yet we still don't have a plan and they
[00:08:16.479] may uh represent a security issue this
[00:08:20.440] may be this may pose a threat to humans
[00:08:23.720] yet you still believe that we should
[00:08:26.039] disclose is that right correct right so
[00:08:28.680] so there's three reasons that Trump all
[00:08:31.240] those others and those others are
[00:08:32.320] basically valid like I said so the first
[00:08:35.159] issue is the moral right the the
[00:08:37.159] government exists for and by the people
[00:08:39.599] and so the nature of reality is
[00:08:41.479] fundamentally not government information
[00:08:43.479] people have a right to know the world in
[00:08:44.920] which we we live and the pursuit of
[00:08:47.279] happiness requires that knowledge so
[00:08:49.399] that's sort of the first kind of
[00:08:51.240] overarching philosophical foundation for
[00:08:53.640] this but you know as a Cory to that if
[00:08:56.080] there are misdeeds that were done then
[00:08:57.880] they need to be remediated if there's
[00:08:59.480] lack of proper oversight which is
[00:09:01.720] suggested by some of the whistleblowers
[00:09:03.640] that needs to be remediated so the first
[00:09:06.120] issue is the moral issue the second
[00:09:08.800] issue is being in a reactive mode is
[00:09:12.320] never preferable to being in a proactive
[00:09:14.279] mode so reactive mode is basically
[00:09:16.600] trying to prevent disclosure but failing
[00:09:19.560] that you might get a situation where you
[00:09:21.040] have catastrophic disclosure that
[00:09:23.200] creates all the problems that you were
[00:09:24.920] trying to prevent so a more balanced
[00:09:28.600] middle path control disclosure is the
[00:09:30.959] best way to do this which is again an
[00:09:33.000] argument for some amount of disclosure
[00:09:35.600] and the third part is simply uh societal
[00:09:38.560] advance and uh Global competitiveness
[00:09:41.360] more Brain Trust needs to be brought
[00:09:43.360] into this topic in order to make
[00:09:45.360] progress and to improve society and and
[00:09:48.120] so all three of those things together
[00:09:50.079] Trump the six other reasons for
[00:09:53.720] non-disclosure and and what do you think
[00:09:56.640] happens if we don't disclose
[00:10:00.079] I I know you mentioned this idea of
[00:10:01.560] catastrophic disclosure maybe disclosure
[00:10:04.600] may be forced upon us uh how do you
[00:10:07.399] think about that so the situation is
[00:10:09.959] usually thought of as a binary State
[00:10:11.880] it's like an All or Nothing uh and
[00:10:13.839] people have sort of argued this but
[00:10:15.760] anybody paying attention realizes the
[00:10:17.519] government has already indicated that
[00:10:19.200] unidentified anomalous phenomena are
[00:10:21.000] real they're not ours and they're not
[00:10:22.839] our adversaries the Pentagon has said
[00:10:24.880] that like for people that are paying
[00:10:26.360] attention like that showe already
[00:10:28.040] dropped so for a lot of people they
[00:10:30.320] think that the second shoe to drop is
[00:10:32.360] this is non-human intelligence and you
[00:10:34.800] maybe the conversation stops there like
[00:10:36.680] president comes out and says you know uh
[00:10:39.240] there's non-human intelligence the truth
[00:10:41.240] is that that will precipitate this
[00:10:43.480] Crescendo of other questions that maybe
[00:10:46.519] the government's not ready to answer
[00:10:48.440] that will court if not precipitate
[00:10:51.440] potential negative ramification for
[00:10:53.040] society and so as an example of this I
[00:10:56.480] would actually point to something from
[00:10:58.200] the ancient past that the Bronze Age
[00:11:00.320] collaps so Eric Klein Princeton
[00:11:02.760] University 2015 wrote a very interesting
[00:11:05.360] book called 1177 BC the age that civil
[00:11:08.880] the year that Civilization failed and so
[00:11:12.399] this is well known to to current
[00:11:14.279] scholarship within a single lifetime all
[00:11:17.360] of the very effective ancient
[00:11:18.920] civilizations of the Bronze Age failed
[00:11:21.839] due to a Confluence of reasons that are
[00:11:24.120] not necessarily fully understood today
[00:11:25.760] so we're talking about Egypt the hittite
[00:11:28.040] Empire The monan Empire the Assan Empire
[00:11:30.480] the Babylonian Empire all these
[00:11:32.560] civilizations failed never to return
[00:11:35.760] other than let's say
[00:11:37.519] Egypt and so these were highly
[00:11:39.760] sophisticated civilizations with highly
[00:11:41.839] developed infrastructures highly
[00:11:43.639] developed uh administrative States they
[00:11:46.160] were globalist in a sense very similar
[00:11:48.320] to today in terms of the Known World the
[00:11:50.720] known near East they were economically
[00:11:52.720] interdependent they had uh uh both
[00:11:56.279] diplomatic ties and commerce ties and
[00:11:58.519] yet these civilizations failed in a
[00:12:00.120] single lifetime because of stressors
[00:12:02.959] that these civilizations collectively
[00:12:04.760] could not address within uh within the
[00:12:07.920] time frame and so if we look at our
[00:12:09.560] society today uh one might argue that
[00:12:12.680] it's similarly fractured similarly under
[00:12:14.880] economic stress similarly under um
[00:12:18.440] cultural stress as well you know
[00:12:20.760] fractured uh and fragile diplomatic
[00:12:23.440] situation it mirrors very much this
[00:12:25.920] scenario yeah and and so for a respon
[00:12:29.560] responsible decision maker that is
[00:12:32.000] certainly a factor and and so I I guess
[00:12:35.079] when you say that um are you implying
[00:12:37.600] that perhaps we as a society may not be
[00:12:40.000] ready for disclosure or or are you
[00:12:42.959] saying that we may not be able to defend
[00:12:45.399] ourselves against this other
[00:12:49.079] Force so there's sort of different
[00:12:51.440] viewpoints on you know whether people
[00:12:53.639] are ready to um you know deal with this
[00:12:56.880] phenomenon and you know popular cultures
[00:12:59.320] kind of infused with this stuff Roswell
[00:13:01.600] became a meme a long time ago we got
[00:13:03.399] programs on Ancient Aliens Skinwalker
[00:13:05.480] Ranch all this stuff I guess I would
[00:13:07.480] draw an analogy though for people that
[00:13:09.800] believe in a certain Faith tradition
[00:13:11.360] whatever that Faith tradition is and
[00:13:13.279] hold to that And subscribe to that in a
[00:13:15.240] very serious and devout way and and you
[00:13:19.199] know sort of pose the question even for
[00:13:21.680] folks of that ilk and I would count
[00:13:23.600] myself as one if you're confronted with
[00:13:26.600] the reality of your religious belief
[00:13:28.639] system like the reality of the
[00:13:31.199] metaphysical uh an angel a a messenger
[00:13:35.040] from god what have you that's going to
[00:13:37.720] be a SE State change in your in your way
[00:13:39.639] of dealing with reality right even
[00:13:41.560] though you already believe it right so
[00:13:43.320] it's one thing to believe and it's
[00:13:44.800] another to know and I think in this
[00:13:47.360] context this this phenomena has an
[00:13:50.440] analogous the potential for an analogous
[00:13:52.759] effect both on the individual and on
[00:13:54.839] society yeah but but do you think that
[00:13:58.399] the phenomenon this non-human form of
[00:14:00.519] intelligence represents a threat to
[00:14:03.759] humanity so so this is a good question
[00:14:06.040] too and some of the other folks have
[00:14:07.800] sort of framed things in that in that
[00:14:10.000] light and I guess I would suggest that
[00:14:14.160] if we're the the universe is governed by
[00:14:16.519] conservation laws and it's probably
[00:14:18.079] reasonable to assume the laws of nature
[00:14:20.440] that we understand apply everywhere we
[00:14:22.920] may have incomplete understanding
[00:14:24.600] undoubtedly we we do of these laws but
[00:14:27.560] they're sort of homogeneous and apply
[00:14:29.519] throughout the Universe and so those
[00:14:31.519] laws are governed by conservation rules
[00:14:34.600] there's conserved quantities and so this
[00:14:37.440] reality really forces a darwinian type
[00:14:40.519] competition in order uh to survive and
[00:14:43.680] so it's reasonable to assume any other
[00:14:45.440] civilization that's evolved has come up
[00:14:47.519] through the same darwinian evolutionary
[00:14:49.360] process so I think it's naive to expect
[00:14:52.360] complete out truism until unless you get
[00:14:55.199] to a post a state of post scarcity where
[00:14:57.880] where you you essentially have no uh you
[00:15:00.440] know physical needs uh that we're kind
[00:15:03.360] of encumbered with in in in this
[00:15:05.320] universe and so in some sense it's the
[00:15:08.079] economics of the future that are going
[00:15:09.720] to determine whether there's cooperation
[00:15:12.759] competition or some sort of symbiosis
[00:15:15.399] yeah and um inform the intention but to
[00:15:20.199] assume either Mal inent or complete
[00:15:23.360] altruism I think is somewhat naive yeah
[00:15:25.959] so so it sounds like what you're saying
[00:15:27.480] is it's impossible to know that true
[00:15:29.160] intentions of a higher intelligence we
[00:15:30.920] may be competing for the same scarce
[00:15:32.759] resources we may not be right we may be
[00:15:35.319] almost irrelevant from them uh
[00:15:37.120] irrelevant to them and they may be
[00:15:38.920] acting altruistically although we cannot
[00:15:41.519] safely assume that and so I guess I'm
[00:15:43.839] I'm curious if we continue down this
[00:15:45.800] disclosure path do you believe that
[00:15:47.839] disclosure is
[00:15:50.240] inevitable so again people that sort of
[00:15:53.600] look at this topic and study it and
[00:15:55.240] there have been some some good um
[00:15:57.720] examinations on this from a historical
[00:16:00.120] standpoint have realized that like we're
[00:16:02.160] not in really a new state like this sort
[00:16:05.399] of disclosure emphasis has come and gone
[00:16:08.959] over time and so this is not the first
[00:16:11.600] time we've arrived at this stage I I I
[00:16:13.880] would suggest that maybe the peak of
[00:16:15.959] this current cycle happened last
[00:16:17.560] December with the Schumer Amendment and
[00:16:19.560] then it got rolled back was defeated in
[00:16:21.279] the house and so it remains to be seen
[00:16:23.600] you know if the process is going to
[00:16:24.759] continue one hopes and and can maybe
[00:16:27.519] draw a little bit of
[00:16:29.519] um uh confidence that maybe this will
[00:16:32.519] come around is the colloquy that Senator
[00:16:36.079] Schumer and Senator rounds had back in
[00:16:38.079] December after their Amendment got
[00:16:40.000] killed they basically went on the senate
[00:16:42.319] floor and articulated their rationale
[00:16:45.839] for the legislation and I think Senator
[00:16:49.399] Schumer to quote him almost said it was
[00:16:51.480] a travesty that this did not
[00:16:54.199] pass so this is you know a bipartisan
[00:16:57.440] cqu on a topic that
[00:16:59.360] I guess most people would probably
[00:17:00.480] consider Fringe and yet these two
[00:17:02.720] senators felt the need to do that and to
[00:17:05.199] double down on their desire to see this
[00:17:07.720] through yeah so hopefully we will see
[00:17:09.880] maybe a reintroduction of some version
[00:17:12.640] of that this summer uh with the goal
[00:17:15.079] maybe putting it into the ndaa by the
[00:17:16.679] end of the year do you think that it's
[00:17:18.240] imperative that the United States leads
[00:17:20.720] on the disclosure
[00:17:22.520] efforts so this is an interesting
[00:17:24.480] question too because this is a global
[00:17:26.160] phenomenon and it's affecting uh other
[00:17:28.559] count countes just like the United
[00:17:29.960] States the reporting on this is clear
[00:17:32.320] over decades other countries have
[00:17:34.200] reported this stuff and and not only
[00:17:36.320] that you know the Vatican has come out
[00:17:37.799] and and made statements uh that
[00:17:39.799] reference or tangentially reference this
[00:17:41.520] topic so organized religion has a say in
[00:17:44.919] this topic as well so it's really a
[00:17:47.640] whole of Planet whole of humanity
[00:17:50.240] problem and so the US has got its role
[00:17:53.600] to play but these other countries have
[00:17:55.400] their role to play and it would be who
[00:17:57.440] of us to recognize that that uh you know
[00:18:01.080] us action could be PR preempted by
[00:18:03.280] another party yeah and it would be uh
[00:18:05.520] probably more conducive to work
[00:18:07.080] collectively yeah I mean I think the one
[00:18:09.640] thing that I don't fully understand that
[00:18:11.080] I'd love to get your thoughts on Carl I
[00:18:13.000] mean if we assume that a higher form of
[00:18:15.600] non-human intelligence has been visiting
[00:18:17.480] this planet if we assume that some of
[00:18:19.960] the statements made by folks like Dave
[00:18:21.559] grush are true that we have crash
[00:18:23.039] materials and if we assume that those
[00:18:26.039] craft that we may have exhibit
[00:18:29.559] characteristics that defy our current
[00:18:32.280] understanding of physics it would it
[00:18:34.559] would seem that that technology would
[00:18:36.919] provide an incredible strategic
[00:18:39.320] advantage to whatever Nation ends up
[00:18:41.799] reverse engineering at first and so to
[00:18:44.880] me that would imply that there is a race
[00:18:48.480] happening to reverse engineer this and
[00:18:50.480] that this topic would be a top priority
[00:18:53.799] do you agree with that so I think some
[00:18:56.720] of what you say is a reasonable
[00:18:58.120] conclusion be drawn and I've suggested
[00:19:01.799] something similar in in past statements
[00:19:04.480] the point here though is to go from a
[00:19:06.760] predisclosure to a post-disclosure world
[00:19:09.159] maybe two stable states that are
[00:19:11.360] separated by an unstable middle ground
[00:19:14.520] and so how you make that transition
[00:19:17.000] again you know Bes speaks to the concern
[00:19:19.159] about this catastrophic uh disclosure
[00:19:22.440] and this has come up in sort of arms
[00:19:24.400] regulation too mutually assured
[00:19:25.880] destruction however much we don't like
[00:19:27.760] it is sort of a stable kind of you know
[00:19:30.640] geostrategic regime uh you know the uh
[00:19:33.760] the Reagan Era defense Shield idea is
[00:19:36.200] also a very stable scenario but to go
[00:19:39.240] from one to the other is very unstable
[00:19:41.600] yeah and so this topic sort of mirrors
[00:19:43.720] that yeah and I and I I know you and I
[00:19:46.320] were talking earlier about this idea
[00:19:48.480] that in order to really understand the
[00:19:51.720] phenomena it's likely that we have to
[00:19:53.840] further our understanding of reality
[00:19:56.440] itself and I guess I'm wondering I can
[00:19:58.840] imagine a future where we acknowledge
[00:20:01.640] and we know that there is a higher form
[00:20:03.480] of non-human intelligence yet we still
[00:20:05.919] don't truly understand the phenomena we
[00:20:08.840] still don't truly understand reality and
[00:20:10.840] so I guess I'm wondering do you think
[00:20:12.640] that we'll ever truly understand what's
[00:20:14.679] going on or if part of the game part of
[00:20:17.240] the Journey part of life itself is
[00:20:19.320] operating in an environment where at
[00:20:21.840] least part of it is fundamentally
[00:20:24.000] unknowable to us so this a totally
[00:20:27.520] philosophical epist logical question
[00:20:29.679] right really about the nature of
[00:20:31.120] knowledge itself right like how can we
[00:20:33.080] know what we know and how can we be sure
[00:20:35.039] about what we know I guess personally I
[00:20:37.559] subscribe to the idea that there is an
[00:20:38.960] ultimate truth and that uh Humanity
[00:20:42.480] being you know created in the image of a
[00:20:44.400] a higher power is endowed with the
[00:20:46.480] quality to pursue an understanding of
[00:20:48.360] that and so our our you know part of our
[00:20:52.039] uh objective in this existence is is to
[00:20:54.559] to seek that out and try to understand
[00:20:56.760] that that ultimate truth to a greater
[00:20:58.720] and greater degree and uh this would be
[00:21:01.039] a component of that obviously well Carl
[00:21:03.919] I really appreciate you taking the time
[00:21:05.360] to chat with us today um I'm hopeful and
[00:21:08.400] optimistic that together maybe we can
[00:21:12.279] move the ball forward here and further
[00:21:14.799] our understanding of what is really
[00:21:16.159] going on because I I certainly agree
[00:21:17.840] with you I think it is very
[00:21:19.440] consequential that um we figure this out
[00:21:22.720] so thank you again for coming thank you
[00:21:24.799] again to salt for hosting us and thank
[00:21:27.320] you all for listening
[00:21:29.279] my pleasure thank you