Roger Leir — MUFON lecture: "Alien Implants and Physical Evidence"

• Speaker: Dr. Roger K. Leir (DPM, podiatric surgeon), MUFON presentation. ~1h15m.
• YouTube: https://youtu.be/l96E5rdahX4 (Mutual UFO Network)
• Captured: 2026-05-30 via yt-dlp audio -> Whisper.
• Primary for ../../sources/leir-alien-implant-surgeon. His own account of the implant surgeries and his headline "anomaly" claims: a cut/crush-resistant "grayish, shiny biological membrane" around the objects; "absolutely no inflammatory response whatsoever — this is impossible"; tissue full of "proprioceptors" (nerve cells); analysis at Los Alamos / New Mexico Tech / UCSD. Note: he acknowledges a prosaic possibility for one patient ("he's a construction worker, I would imagine it's [debris]") before concluding alien.
• NOTE: Whisper auto-transcript ("Dr. Lear"=Leir; he is a DPM/podiatrist, often mislabeled "M.D."). Verify quotes against audio.

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Okay, welcome back. And I, how do I, you know, announce our next speaker, Dr. Roger Lear. What a real sweetheart this man is. I first met the lovely Dr. Roger Lear back in 1999 at the Leeds UFO Conference in England, where Dr. Lear has always given a very interesting and outstanding presentation on his findings of alien implants. Since then, Dr. Lear and myself have remained friends for the last several years. And actually, he's appeared twice on my TV show, Let's Talk Paranormal, with the first show being of alien implants,
which actually won us an award back in 2003. And most recently, his second appearance discussing the now-famed Varginha UFO crash in Brazil. Dr. Lear is a pediatrician, surgeon, who has been in private practice for the last 41 years in Ventura, County of California, and is the author of Aliens and the Scalpel, as well as a number of other books, and has been said to be one of the world's most important leaders in physical evidence research involving the field of ufology. He and his surgical team have performed nine surgeries on alleged alien
abductees. This resulted in the removal of 10 separate and distinct objects suspected of being alien implants. These objects have been scientifically investigated by some of the most prestigious laboratories in the world, such as Los Alamos National Laboratories, New Mexico Tech, and the University of California in San Diego. Their findings have been baffling, and some comparisons have been made to meteorite samples. In addition, some of the tests show isotopic ratios not of this world. He has recently formed a new nonprofit organization
for this purpose called A&S Research. Dr. Lear has been on numerous national and international television programs, including the 1999 NBC special broadcast of Confirmation. Dr. Lear has visited 42 different countries, performing lectures and investigations, and has recently authored and released his newest book, UFO Crash in Brazil, which is the story of his personal investigation of the Varginha, Brazil UFO crash of 1996. Appearance and medical treatment of several non-terrestrial entities. He's a frequent guest on Coast to Coast with
Art Bell, which I know you all know, and George Noory, and on Dreamland, also with Whitley Strieber. So, please welcome our very dear friend and the man that knows more about alien
implants than anyone, well, certainly on this planet, Dr. Roger Lear. Thank you, Tracy. I don't know how I will ever live up to that introduction. I want to thank, first of all, MUFON in general, who, which is one of the greatest organizations in the world. And I've belonged medically through the years to several organizations. I've been in practice, private practice now for 41 years. And I can honestly say that nothing like this in medicine exists. You know, when I talk to medical audiences about medical subjects, it's pretty dry. Most of
the guys are sleeping or, you know, are thinking about doing their crossword puzzle or something else. Anyway, I think that we all appreciate your support. And that's what this organization needs, is a lot of support. And I thank John Schussler, who has just done a magnificent job since he's
taken over the organization. These conferences just get better and better and better and better. Today, I had the privilege of listening to Phyllis Budinger. And people of her caliber are needed in this organization because she is a true scientist. And also, she went over a lot of material in detail. How many saw her this morning? Quite a few. Good, good for you. So I want to thank her again because since she's already explained a lot of this scientific detail, you see, I don't have
to cover it. Now, before we get into the business of business, Tracy mentioned the fact that I'm out with my new book, UFO Crash in Brazil, the story of the 1996 Virginia case. It's got a lot of stuff in it, and I did a personal investigation. I spent over a week there, talked with numerous researchers, interviewed a number of witnesses, and some witnesses came forth that weren't available ever before. One was an orthopedic surgeon who was forced by the military to perform a surgery
on one of these non-terrestrial beings. Another one was the wife of a deceased military police officer who, at 23 years of age, young, healthy, in the prime of his life, Marco Eli Cherez, died three weeks after exposure to one of these entities. So I just mention that in passing because, you know, why don't they land on the White House lawn? You know, why don't they come out and shake hands with you? Well, has anyone ever considered the fact that maybe if they did
that, they'd wipe out the human race because maybe they carry microorganisms that might be injurious to our entire planet. So there may be logical reasons for the things that we happen. But I'm going to go into a lot of science today. Also, I have, if you haven't seen it, a DVD and a video, a scientific study of alien implants. We won an EBE award for this as the best documentary in a UFO field. And I think that it's very complete and it offers you interviews with the surgical patients,
which now number 11. We have increased from nine. We have two more surgical cases to do, one with an object in her neck and one in the maxillary area. And we have another individual who has an object in their foot. The problem is M-O-N-E-Y. ANS research is now down to less than $300. We need funds to progress. The latest research that I've done has been on some non-surgical specimens. One was submitted to me by this group, International Mufon, and we put it through its
paces. It was very expensive. And I'm going to finish up my remarks by telling you in detail
what we did and what we came up with. Now, I see a lot of different kinds of patients in my office. I had a lady came in the other day, 83 years old. And she said, Doc, I realize that you're a foot surgeon, but I have something I have to discuss with you. And I said, well, if I can help you, I'll certainly listen to what you have to say. She says, it's my husband. And I was wondering what's coming next. So maybe he's got an implant or something. And she said, no, his memory is
really bad. So how old is he? Oh, he's 87. So I said, you know, 87 years of age, you can expect a slight deterioration of the memory. She says, well, he's just getting terrible. I mean, he's getting impossible to live with. And I said, well, you know, really, that's not my field. You know, maybe you should consult a neurologist or a psychiatrist and so on. But one of the things that I can offer is that maybe he could write things down and that might help his memory. She
says, OK, I'll try that. So she left and she came back the following week and she said to me, you know, I tried doing what you said. We were home one night and we were watching TV. And I said, honey, would you go out to the kitchen and get me a little bit of a dish of ice cream with some chocolate syrup on it? And he says, sure. Now, she says, you know, Dr. Lear told me maybe you should write it down. Honey, he says, it's only two things. How can I forget? So a few minutes
goes by and out he comes with a plate and he hands her the plate and it's the plate of scrambled eggs. And she says, you see what I mean, Doc? He forgot to bring me the toast. So goes life. Anyway, I realized that it's after lunch and this is just the perfect kind of time to see what I've got to show you. So in the seat in front of you, in the back, you'll find a little bag. And if you
should be bothered by any of this, you know what to do with the bag. Otherwise, just shut your eyes. I'm going to I'm going to show you a little 11 minute video. So you know how it is after eating your stomach full and your brain drained of blood. You can watch the video in the dark and appreciate it. So let's go ahead and roll that little video.
I was skiing with some friends. I took a fall. They took an X-ray. And there was a strange object next to my thumb. Why me? I'm not a particularly extraordinary person. Why would I be tagged? I had this feeling like I was a wild animal or a piece of cattle. I don't know how it's influencing my life, my thoughts, my health. I don't want that thing in me. If I didn't give them permission to put it in. The object appears to be in the thumb and it should be a relatively simple procedure to go in, isolate it and remove it. Paul is an interesting
case. We took a physical examination of his hand and arm. We looked for the telltale marks of the portal of entry. We didn't see any. Am I anxious? Am I afraid? Sure I am. Will I be relieved if it's not alien? You bet. When the object was removed and we looked at it, you don't really find things
in the body that are wrapped with this very tight sort of grayish, very shiny biological membrane. And then try and take a surgical blade and cut through it with a knife and can't cut it. It looks like it might be an iron oxide. If we can crush it and get it to very small size, we'll be able to really get to the internal structure more readily. The object resisted crushing, but an outside layer did flake off. This was put under x-ray diffraction and the results of the test
were curious. They couldn't match it to any of the 65,000 known substances in their computer file. It's not in our file. I'm not sure what to think about that at the present time. That's as many known substances that we have on the planet as possible. The combination of these elements could be put together by nature, they could have been put together by man, or they could be put together with a different type of physics that we have little knowledge of. I had this experience of
emptiness, sort of like a feeling like maybe a pet had died. I'm not sure how to explain it other than this sense of something missing. I am a podiatric surgeon and I'm exploring something
new, which is the alien abduction phenomena in relation specifically to physical evidence. Basically, what we have is someone who alleges alien abduction with an object on their body, and then you take this object out. Here I start as a consummate scientific skeptic saying this is nothing but a bunch of nonsense, and now I have a report in my hand that says they contain
objects from another world. I was coming home from a medical checkup in Denver with my wife. I saw this spherical shape, lights, many lights, and it was large. It came right in front of our car. When we did encounter the UFO and spotted it and the events of the night started to happen, it was an awesome realization to me to realize that we were not alone in the universe. It was
something not of this world that I've seen. I do feel that this implant was from that first encounter. There's no doubt in my mind. Okay, getting close. Is it a boy or a girl? Well, we don't know yet. Here it is, here. So let's put a piece of white gauze. I think this is it, so we're going to x-ray to make sure. I'm objective and I don't really know that this
is different. I really have to have it analyzed, though. You don't know what it is. He's a construction worker. I would imagine it's probably some construction particle that flew and hit him. We didn't hardly feel. We just found it by coincidence and took it out. That's what I think it is. The object that we removed today contains or is surrounded by the same type of membrane that we have seen in the other objects. I have never seen anything like the membrane which
surrounds these objects. It's a very well-organized, shiny, dark membrane which fits very tightly onto the object. We've also had analysis of this and it has simple ingredients in it, but you do not find those ingredients in combination anywhere in any medical pathology book. The shocks began to continue and especially when we got the first pathology reports back on the tissue, not the tissue that wrapped so tightly the metal within, but the tissue that we removed,
just the tissue around the object where it was sitting nicely for so many years. We found that there was absolutely no inflammatory response whatsoever and this is impossible. The next thing that we found was there were areas in this tissue surrounding these objects with large amounts of proprioceptors which are very small, tiny, specialized nerve cells and you don't find them there. These objects are mostly all located near the bone. This is not the place where you
have proprioception. And then the next set of findings that came in were the metallurgical findings. Getting a report back from a laboratory such as Los Alamos National Labs, a world-famous laboratory, telling me the objects they looked at were meteorite samples. Then when we went on even further and found things like amorphous iron without crystalline structure that was magnetic and then finding ratios, isotopic ratios for metals that are not from this earth, then what
conclusion are you going to come to? Since the time when we started, we now have a total of ten surgeries that have been performed. We have let's say three that have produced these little grayish white balls that are non-metallic. We have four that are little cantaloupe seed shaped affairs. We have another little metallic object which is T-shaped covered with this membrane. We have one
that's triangular covered with a membrane. Now we have a new category which is totally biological. Now this object was most unusual in the sense that it moved underneath the skin before it was removed. I was at my boyfriend's house. We were woken by a very, very bright light. The whole room just lit up and there was a sphere in the air slowly coming down in his backyard. Who would really believe it? Not even my best friend did I tell. Who would I tell? I just wouldn't tell
that to anyone. It's too crazy. My first reaction when I saw it live in the patient's arm was shock. I've never seen anything like this in over 37 years worth of practice. It moved back and forth and up and down. You could just do anything to it. It seemed pretty odd along with the story
of the thing that had happened to me and I just thought, I'll go ahead. It just appeared overnight. There was no little thing that was growing and it just seemed to appear one day. I do think this is related to the experience of what happened to me. I tried to trap this thing with a finger after I saw it move the first time. Then as I held it there, I touched it again and instead of moving back in the direction that it came from, it moved 90 degrees in another direction. When the doctor
was trying to remove it, he said, this is ridiculous. He said every time he was trying to snip and do things, he was saying this is just really, really, really odd that I'm having such a hard time with actually getting this out of there. Almost like it did not want to leave my body. It did try to move out of the way and he had to use a couple of fingers in order to sort of corner it in one spot. Once it was cornered in one spot, the surgeon really reached in and took it
out. This object has a very smooth exterior and its bivalve, like a clam, opens from the middle and has a little dark line on each side of this upper end of the object. The surface of it was photographed under high magnification using a microscope called the atomic force microscope
and very powerful light microscopes giving us some idea of the surface structure of the object. Later, we intend to go ahead and begin to study what chemically makes up the object and finally what elements make up the object and then of course try and determine if these elements have things like isotopic ratios that are not earthly. In my heart, I know this happened. I know it was not a dream. I know it was definitely real. It was definitely real and I think it would just be a
relief to me if I could discuss it and not feel embarrassed. This last case, this is the only one I've ever seen that moves underneath the skin until quite recently when I was just presented with another case. Dear Dr. Lear, like many abductees, I've had experiences all my life and so have my parents. Several years ago after an abduction, I woke up with a moving lump in my left arm. I never thought anything of it until now.
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that. I might say you're the first audience that's ever seen this little short video.
Thank you. Now, one of the things, things that I do and things that I don't do, I don't do what
Bud Hopkins does. I don't do what David Jacobs does. I don't do what the late John Mack does. Those are very fine, reputable individuals, the best in the world for actually studying the abduction cases themselves. Where I come in is what physical evidence is involved, either medical
evidence or implant evidence. We try to subject that to the most scientific paradigm that there is. One of the things that is very difficult in my neck of the woods is to find somebody of the caliber of these other individuals who can work with abductees and try and help them. So, I came up with the idea of really, truly trying to attempt to build from the ground up, including the property, a West Coast Center for Abduction Research. It's a big proposition. It costs a lot of money
because we want to buy the property, the building, have our own staff. Some things we'll do in-house, some things we'll send out. But it will be a place where anybody can go and study. We can study this phenomenon the way it should be studied. Not a lot of people trying to do little bits here and there, a very comprehensive thing. But, as I mentioned before, it takes a good sum of money to do any of these things. So, you might think I'm totally nuts, but I've thought of a possible way to raise
the money. Since I come from the Hollywood motion picture capital, and you don't know this I'm sure, but I did spend some of my early life working in the motion picture industry, I am attempting to make a full-fledged large-screen motion picture. Not as a documentary, but as an entertainment piece based on all the happenings in this field, and doing it quite in an accurate manner. And the idea for this is, if we can get this thing made and sold, it will supply the money to do the abduction
research center. We're working, at the moment, on a three-minute teaser. The CGI effect has already been done.
It's been done by an artist, a friend of mine, who worked on a lot of the Star Trek material and X-Files. His name is Steve Neal. And we're shooting this with the same camera that Lucas uses, which is a Sony 900 high-def camera. So this is going to be state-of-the-art Madison Avenue. And once it's done, keep your fingers
crossed, and maybe we can find the money to make the film. But I thought you ought to know. Now, we're going to get down to the nitty-gritty of the business. I'm going to try and cover a lot of material
in the time we have left. I have a whole bunch of slides. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on them.
Some of them are just going to kind of whiz on by as I make comments. Now, first of all, the Gary Lowery case. You all know about that case, what's new, what's going on, and so on. Has it stopped? Well, interestingly enough,
about six months ago, I got a call from Gary, and he said, you know, something wonderful happened. I said, what's that? He said, all the activity has stopped. And I said, well, Gary, you know, I told you that historically in the abduction phenomenon, it just does not go on forever. Well, that lasted for about two months,
and then he called me again, and he says, you can't believe what happened to me last night, and away we go.
So he's got more marks, more physical evidence. He collects stuff in jars and bottles and preservatives and so on.
And we're, you know, as I said, we have more things to analyze, magnetic effects and so on.
So let's start with the slides. Next. How would you like to see that in your bedroom? I would.
This is an image that is taken off of a videotape using an infrared sensor, and each frame of video runs at 30 frames per second. But at the same token, each frame is composed of two fields. So Gary went out and got what's called a field splitter,
and we were able to see three or four frames that had these images on it, and this is one of the fields. Next.
And remember, you're looking at this with infrared, so it does not look the same as if you were looking at it with room light.
This comes through the wall in the closet of his bedroom. Next. This is the infamous claw sample that we worked and worked and worked on, and after it was seen by a number of people and determined it was a claw,
we finally got down to doing the DNA. Next. Another view of the same object. Next. These are some of the things that Gary has drawn post-hypnotically. He comes out of the hypnotic session,
and he's able to have a pretty good recall of some of the things that he's seen during his abduction case. Next.
Again, these are devices, and he doesn't know what they're used for, but he draws them in quite detail.
He doesn't have a clue, but these are things that he's seen aboard ship. Next. Here are some of the reports that we have, and they're reports to me coming from various places
as to everything that has to do with the progress of scanning and DNA and so on. We're just going to sail by these. Next.
Here's another one. This is from a scientist at the San Diego Zoo who was a primate zoologist.
She spent hours and hours and hours. She thought it was a claw, and she couldn't identify it, as it says here in the letter.
I don't have to read it for you. I think you can read it quite well. Can you see it okay? Anybody can't see it? I guess you can all see it. Okay, next.
Here are more reports that have to do with the beginning of the DNA analysis as they come in. Next.
This is a little bit hard to see, but it's a DNA gel. I'll just show you this as an example.
During the process of discovering what this is, this is just part of the DNA analytical process. Next.
Now, amongst Gary's artifacts was a watch. I don't know if I've told you about this before, and if I have, am I repeating it? Forgive me.
One of the things he had was a watch with a leather band. He kept it on his dresser at night. He woke up one morning, and the watch was gone.
He asked his wife and his kids, and nobody fessed up to taking his watch. Two weeks later, he found the watch just exactly in the same place where he left it originally,
except the whole watch was covered with this gray powder. We took it in, and we did an EDX on it.
This shows the minerals that are in the powder, and it's indicated by the numbers—the letters, rather, above. This is oxygen, silicone, and so on. Now, we do this, and then we submit this into a computer database for powders.
Now, look here. You can see this carbon peak is just absolutely huge, so it's mostly carbon.
We submit this into a computer database, and it's got hundreds of thousands of different components and powders and so on. Guess what? It matches nothing.
You try and do this research, and you discover different things, but you don't always have the answers.
Next. Next. Now, maybe we can lighten that up a bit on the screen. Gary called me up one day, and he said, I woke up with a black dot on the back of my hand. I said, well, maybe something got on there during the night.
He says, well, if it did, I can't get it off. I said, well, did you try and scrape it off? He says, no, it just won't come off. I said, well, why don't you bring it down to me, and we'll see what it is.
He brought it down, and with a scalpel blade, we were able to detach it from the back of his hand.
This is a view through an optical microscope, and it's kind of a weird-looking thing. It's sort of a gelatinous-type stroma around the outside,
and then it has these fibro-like things, or what actually look like wires. Next.
And there's another view showing this unusual stuff. Next. And there's a closer picture of it.
What is it? Well, we don't have a clue. We've sent it in to get some analysis done,
and so far, it could be animal, vegetable, or mineral, but we don't know what it is. So there's another.
He said, gee, this guy's up here showing us this stuff, and he doesn't have any answers. Well, if I had the money, I would have the answers, because you could go on. That's why I admire Phyllis Budinger so much. She's able to lead these things to some kind of a conclusion. Next.
Another view of this same weird thing. Next. Now, we did another surgery on a lady who had an object in her cheek, and we didn't know it was in the cheek because this case was originally sent to me by a dentist, and the dentist called me on the phone and said, this patient of mine has some really weird stories, and I hear that you deal with things like this.
But I took an x-ray, and she's got a metallic object, which appears to be in her gum. So I told them to send me the x-ray, and I looked at it, and we took it to our radiologist and then to a dental consultant.
They said, well, it looks like there's something there. Certainly it doesn't belong there, but I don't know whether it's in the gum,
so let's have her get a Panorex. So communication again, and we got a Panorex done. That's the whole mouth, and that showed it up a little better,
but we still didn't know where the thing was. It's somewhere in a mouth, a gum, or a tooth, or whatever it is, but it certainly wasn't any kind of dental material. So then we said, well, the last thing here is we've got to get a CAT scan.
So we did a CAT scan, and lo and behold, it wasn't in the mouth at all. It was in the cheek, and it was in the cheek superficial to the masseter muscle,
which is a muscle in the cheek. That means that it didn't go in through the mouth.
It went in through the outside, but as in all the other cases, there was no scar. Next. Now, this case caught the attention of George Norrie and his producer, Tom, and so he said, can I come to the site when you're doing the surgery because I want to do a show on this tonight,
and I'd like to record this while it's going on. I said, let me ask the patient if it's okay, and she agreed, and so there's George and there's Tom. Next. These are a number of people that are involved in the surgery.
This instrument here with the arch is what's called a C-arm. It allows us to see inside the tissue as we're doing the surgery, which appear on some television screens. Next. Next. Now, we mark the area where we think this object is,
and then in addition to this, we use some metallic markers. Next. These are the metallic markers.
It's somewhere between these two metallic markers. So that's where you make your cut. Next. Now, here's what the X-ray looks like. Here's the object on the X-ray. Next.
That one's kind of hard to see, but it's down here. Next. Now, this is the X-ray device that we're using, the C-arm, and here's the two television screens, as you can see.
what you're doing while you're doing it makes it a lot easier for the removal of a foreign object. Next.
Here's an instrument that we have placed in the wound and you can see it's just right at the tip is the object that we're trying to remove. Now we had a lot of difficulty here because some magnetic phenomena was occurring and this object was being propelled away from the surgical instrument and surgical instruments are not supposed to be
magnetic. It could be rather dangerous. You know, so you would think that if this was, you know, ferrous metal and highly magnetic
it would just be attracted to it and almost come right out, but that's not the case. Next.
Now here we put in a needle and this needle runs parallel to the skin and it gives us another geographical architectural point to work from. Next. Here's the needle again and see again, it's pointing right to the object. Next.
There it is. Looks like it's close to the surface of the skin. Not true. Next. This is it after it's been removed and you can see that it's got kind of a
curlicue thing that goes all the way around it. At first I thought this was not covered with this strange dark gray membrane, but when looking at it under the microscope we found, yep, there it is. Next. Now George was actually able to interview the patient and get some thoughts as the surgery was going on and after it was over. Next. Next. Next.
Next. Next. Next. Next. There it is. This is some tissue that we removed that surrounds the object. We always do this because we submit this for separate analysis and in the past that we had find that this surrounding soft tissue absolutely has no inflammatory or rejection reaction whatsoever. Now if we could duplicate the membrane, as I have mentioned many times before, that surrounds this thing, my god, you could wrap a liver or a kidney or whatever you want in it and the patient wouldn't have to take things like cyclosforin and other very expensive immunosuppressive agents for the rest of their life. Next. There's another view. Next.
Next. Now under the optical microscope, you know, in doing research on either surgically removed objects or objects that may have something to do with abduction like Phyllis did with the Betty Hill dress and so on, you can't walk into a laboratory and say, see I have this thing.
Here it is, guys. I want you to do what you're going to do and tell me what it is.
Science doesn't work that way. There are a number of different tests and so you have to be there to tell the laboratories what tests you want and depending upon the conclusion of the first test,
it depends on what you're going to do for the next test. And if you don't do that, the whole thing is a waste of time and somebody was telling me at this conference about a little ball that supposedly came out of the nose and it was given to the lab and they didn't find out what it was. You can't do that. You have to know what test to order. So the way I look at things is sort of in a practical aspect. Let's learn as much as we can from the outside surface and then we'll go deeper into it and see what it is. So the first thing we do is optical high-magnification photography. Let's show that slide again. Next. And you can see it's a very, very shiny metal. Next.
And it has grooves which run 76 degrees parallel to the long axis of the rod. And when the scientists were looking at this,
they said, oh, this is probably a piece of extruded metal. That's what made the lines and etc, etc, etc.
And I probably even know the instrument that it was used to cut it off the stock with. Next.
Next. And then we got to looking at the ends of the object and we find that these lines totally crossed the ends and they said, whoops, there goes that theory.
Because extruded objects, if you cut the thing off, the same lines don't go around the end. Next. Next.
Okay, you know, here's a report on a sample. That was given to me by MUFON. And we started doing the
same sort of thing. Now, usually I don't accept surgical objects which are taken out by somebody else. But this case, John sent me all the material on a videotape and the object and told me about the
abductee and fairly well convinced me that this was a worthwhile case to look into. Now, when I remove objects from the human body, they're placed in a serum solution. We take whole blood and then we spin it down. And when we when we spin the thing down, it separates out the liquid portion, which is the serum. And then that contains a preservative and an anticoagulant. And we pop the thing in there and they, so far, knock on wood, they're as happy as clams.
But this doctor didn't do that. I'm sure he was very well-meaning. So he put it in a solution of formaldehyde.
Which is okay. It didn't seem to deteriorate. So we went on from there. Next. And
we we got several reports back, which I'll read you the last report. So just go on. Next. Now, we did optical photography on this, you know, with a
microscope, a light microscope. And we got to looking at the outside, as you saw with the metallic rod. I didn't bring those
slides. We just have too many slides. Anyway, that showed us what it looked like. But then we subjected this to the next biggest, biggest magnification, which is an atomic force microscope. And I feel this is important because it's in between optical
photography and what you can get with an SEM, which is scanning electron microscopy. So this gives us some idea of the surface data. And what happens, it uses a laser. And the laser travels either in a liquid or directly over the object and makes these lines. And it's comparable in a database to certain, you know, known graphic configurations. Next. I'm going to show you some examples under this tremendously high magnification. This is not SEM. This is not scanning electron microscopy. This, this is AFM, atomic force microscope. Next.
Next. And you can see, it's almost like looking at the surface of another planet. We can see these strides, these large
protrusions, bumps. Next. And these are different views taken in different places. We did this on the surface of the rod or the surface of the
elongated object, whatever you want to call it. And then we also took a look at the ends. Next.
Now, here's what the thing looked like on an SEM. This is scanning electron microscopy. And when you do this, you do another test. If you listened to Phyllis earlier, it's called an EDX. And the EDX gives you a graphic
representation of the elements that this is composed of. But what, this is what this thing looked like. Now, when I played with this on the lab bench, and I took an instrument to take it out of the formaldehyde and put it in a dish,
it looked like it was magnetic. So I said, well, you know, maybe we really have something here. But by the time we got it, you know, into a laboratory setting and started working with it, and we got it dried out,
we found that it had no magnetic properties whatsoever. So what was going on was what was called an electrostatic charge.
Next. Now, we centered in on a small area of the object where we saw this configuration, which looked like it was kind of an organic material. And that's probably what it was. Next. And there's another view. Next.
Now, this has kind of been interesting. We, interesting shot, we turned it over and used the
scanning electron microscope to take a look at the end. And as you can see, this is a hollow structure, and it's got stuff.
I don't know how else to describe it. It's got stuff in it. You know, you're looking, you're looking at many times
magnification, as you can see here. And so it's got, it's hollow, and it's got stuff in it. Next. And here's the other end, you know, and you can see again, it's, this is kind of irregular, and it's got some internal properties here, you know. What the heck is it? Next. And here's a really, really high
magnification view, 500x here, of an area of the surface. And this is where we saw that place that looked like organic material,
which it probably was. Next. And here's a greater magnification shot of the end. It's round, and it's hollow, and it's full of stuff. Yeah. Okay. Next.
Now, here's a good shot of the surface. This is a 500x magnification, or is that 3,500x? Yeah, that's 3,500x. You can see that's
more highly magnified than you've seen so far. Let's put it that way. 3,500x. And you can see that the surface is wavy, it's irregular, and there's some different density of objects here. Next. Next.
Now, we said, well, what the heck, you know, what is this made of? My gosh. Well, look at this.
Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Carbon! We've got a lot of carbon in this thing. And then we took a look at some of the elements here and say, hmm, this certainly doesn't look metallic. It looks organic of some sort. Next. Then we took another piece of the rod, and we did the EDX on it. And again, this
long carbon peak, and you see the rest of the minor elements here. Well, you know, this is getting to look more like something we might know what it is. Next.
And here's another one. We did different places on the rod, just in case, you know,
there's some place that's got something totally different. But same sort of stuff. Next. Different places again. Next.
Now, what we did, we looked at that, and the lab guys gathered around and said, you know, this looks like it could be cellulose.
So, Phyllis talked this morning about the infrared spectrometry, a test that's called FTIR, and he said, well, let's do that next. Now, you remember that when you walk into a laboratory, this was done by SEAL Labs in Southern California, and they're very well qualified forensic laboratories. When there's an aircraft accident, or something happens, you know, with NASA on the shuttle, they get these little pieces of metal and things, and they have to come up with an analysis and a report of why the metal fractured, and so on. So they're not, they're not the caliber of a university laboratory with
one professor and a bunch of students who are trying to learn how to operate a machine. This is a real, true forensic laboratory. And you'll walk in through the front door, and you say, this is what I want to have done, that we have group meetings, and they make suggestions. Well, what about doing this and that? And then I say, well, let's see, let me get my checkbook out here.
Well, I don't know, you know, they want $600 for this. Can you do it for $482.50?
You know, because we, we're non-profit. We don't have any money. Oh, no, we can't do it for that. All right, make it $485. I'll write the check. But anyway, you can wheel and deal with them. They're nice people. So, but
it takes money to do this. Next. So, what we did, this, the FTIR produces, first of all,
this graphic recording here. And then it goes through a computer. Everything goes through a computer today.
Sometime in the future, I'll probably go through a computer, and I won't be standing here.
It'll just be a virtual image of me. I'll be at home, asleep, or fishing someplace.
You know, this, this is modern science stuff. And also, they looked at this configuration, looks pretty much the same.
Hey, it's cellulose for sure. But what's this? This is something different. Next. Next. So, we did some comparisons and trying to find what these other areas look like. Go ahead, next.
And then we did some more of them, and they begin to look like certain amino acids. Now, isn't that strange?
This thing comes out of the human body, and it could have amino acids there. How strange. Well, that's what we find in the human body, amino acids. Next. Now,
here's the report, and since it may not be that clear, I'll read it to you, because this is the crux of the situation. This, as I said before, these tests cost me a lot of money. Here's what we got.
Material analysis of sample CL lab, job number 20363. Dear Dr. Lear, the submitted sample was examined in a scanning lab. The submitted sample was examined in a scanning electron microscope, SCM, and analyzed for elemental chemical composition
with energy-dispersive X-ray EDX microprobe attachment, containing a thin window detector. The EDX microprobe spectra was obtained at 20 kilovolts electron beam voltage,
a condition that simultaneously detects all the elements in the periodic table above the electron beam.
It detects all the elements in the periodic table above the atomic number 5, which happens to be boron.
The submitted sample was 3.25 millimeters in length, 0.45 millimeters in average diameter.
It had a black color with a lighter interior when examined from either end. The sample was non-magnetic. The side view of the sample was shown in figure 1a, which I showed you before.
A small particle was present on the surface, shown in figure 1b, which is, as I said, probably organic material, tissue.
The end-on views of the sample are shown in figures 2, 3a. A cellular structure is seen. Detailed examination of the sample surface reveals some linear features.
The EDX microprobe spectra obtained on the small particle shown in figure 1 is represented in figure 5.
Carbon, oxygen, calcium, sulfur, silicon, titanium, sodium, zinc, traces of iron, potassium, aluminum were all present.
This is the normal stuff you usually find either in the human body or in a tree.
The EDX microprobe spectra obtained on the small particles shown in 1b, presented in figure 5, etc., etc. And then we go on. EDX microprobe spectra obtained on both end views. General surface shown in figures 2, 3, 4, etc., etc.
Varying amounts of carbon, oxygen, calcium, sulfur, sodium, phosphorus were present.
Since the sample revealed large amounts of carbon and oxygen, it is primarily an organic material with some inorganic materials.
To further characterize the organic nature of the sample, it was analyzed using a Fourier transform infrared FTIR microspectroscopy. In this technique, a small sample is irradiated with infrared in the spectral range of 700 to 4000 minus centimeters,
and the radiation absorbed at each wave number is recorded. The presence of peaks at specific wave numbers indicate either a bond stretch or bend, and thus indicative of the bond between the two specific atoms.
So, as Phyllis explained earlier, infrared spectroscopy is one of the most conclusive and best tests that you can do at this stage of looking at a piece of material.
When these peaks are viewed together, the functional groups composing the molecules presented are indicated.
A Fourier transform indicates that all frequencies from the source are analyzed simultaneously. It looks at the whole piece at the same time.
The FTIR spectrum obtained from the sample and its best spectral match with the FTIR library revealed a cellulose material. Small amounts of protein and amino acids were present.
In summary, the submitted sample is a long piece of wood, showing linear features on the bark and cellular features inside the bark.
The wood also contains some inorganic materials containing calcium, sulfur, sodium, and phosphorus.
The sample surface contains small amounts of protein and amino acids from the body fluids.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have further questions. So, there you go.
Lots of money spent, thorough investigation of an object, and we have a piece of wood.
So, what does that mean overall with the case? Does that mean that there is no abduction? No. The abduction case could be as solid as possible.
It's just that the object that this individual had within his body was a sliver. You know, and as I said, I didn't do the surgery.
I received the object in formaldehyde and proceeded to do what they wanted of me. So, there it is. I mean, that's the way science is done.
You don't always come up with things like you saw in the video. But when you see material that is highly magnetic, and when you do x-ray diffraction on it and the iron is amorphous, believe me, folks,
we don't know how to do that stuff. Because I was in a black budget laboratory in San Antonio, Texas, and here were scientists that were crowded into the room,
and they confessed to me that we knew how to make amorphous metals. Naturally, they wouldn't tell me what it was used for, but you've got to believe it was something military. But what they didn't know was how to make it magnetic.
And if those guys don't know how to do it, we don't know how to do it. Period. Okay. According to my big sign here, we have 13 minutes left, and I'll be happy to take some questions. So if we could have some lights. That would be nice.
It's question time, but I'd like to have the lights on, so I can see who's asking the questions. But maybe they won't turn them on. I don't know. Did I beat you? Okay. Well, thanks a lot. That was great. Very interesting. I'm going to go out and buy your book. But I just wondered, this is hard.
It seems like at least some elements of hard evidence. What kind of response have you had from your folks in San Antonio or U.S. government military intelligence? Because this is hard evidence.
Have you had any kind of reaction, response, or anything else? Thanks. You know, I think my best answer to that question is, why is it I do what I do, and I'm not locked up,
or put in jail, or found on the bottom of the sea yet? And it's probably what I'm discovering is, if somebody knows, some group knows, and you guys out there may know more about this than I do, certainly.
But there may be groups who know a lot more than any of us sitting in this room. And I think if you don't tilt the scale grossly, you know, I'm not coming out and said, you know, I just shook hands with a gray last night,
and we sat on my porch and smoked cigars. You know, if I did that, I might be in real trouble. But when you go into a black budget laboratory, and these are very sincere guys, and incidentally, the laboratory director, when this was going on, was standing out on the hall
with his hands on his hips. And the expression on his face was not exactly friendly, because he, these guys are on a payroll to do a job for the government, not to go in a room looking at a little piece of UFO junk. Next.
Right. So, my name is Joe Brooks from LA MUFON. I'm an internal medicine doctor. And the analysis that you did at the end of the program
was not from a specimen that you had personally obtained. That was the point of information.
That's correct. I received the specimen in a container of formaldehyde with a letter from the physician
who removed it and a videotape of the surgery. They did not have x-rays that showed metallic density
like you did in your previous cases, right? No. I had no x-rays to go on at all. I accepted it just on the merit that MUFON thought it was a good case. And then after going over it personally,
I thought, yes, it's worthy doing. And so you're going to modify your practice in the future in terms of focusing on things you've removed yourself
that you can vouch for. Is that right? Not necessarily. Because, Joe, in the last two years particularly, I've received stuff from Australia, from Japan, from Israel and a few other places. And they're not surgical specimens.
They're materials of interest. And as long as I can keep a few bucks to do the tests,
I do them and I send them back the results. I started out by just doing the surgical stuff. But this has sort of evolved now into other physical evidence, either of UFO landing crash sites or somebody sees something strange
and a piece falls off and it looks weird and I get it. And as long as there's enough documentation
and I have the bucks, I can go ahead and do it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Joe. Is there any reason other than speculation on why the implants are put in
other than maybe a tracking device? And could it be detrimental to take them out?
Well, that's a good question. And I've been asked that quite frequently. I've been in 42 countries
and I probably have had that question asked in many of them. Now, all I can go by, number one,
answering the last part first, is it detrimental? We follow the cases quite closely for the ones that we have extracted and nobody's really had anything detrimental that happened to them. One case, they thought they had some psychic ability
which disappeared, but within two months it came back. And also, so far, knock on wood,
we've never had anybody had one put back. Now, are tracking devices, or what are they for?
I really don't think that they're tracking devices. And I wish Stan Friedman was here because I would like to use his little acronym for SETI,
which is the most stupid thing I've ever heard of in my life. Why would you expect an advanced civilization to be playing with a radio wave? I mean, Mishukaku gives a good analogy
of various advanced civilizations. And you think an advanced civilization would have to stick something like we do
in a whale to track it through the ocean. Another thing, in Brazil, I was presented with a case. A lady had an object, well, two objects in the toe,
very similar to the one that I removed in 1995. And she was deathly afraid to have this removed.
And I said, why are you so afraid? Because you have one here that's slightly dangerous. It's getting very close to the surface of the skin and it could form a canal if it came out
and end up with an osteomyelitis of the bone. It would be an open trackway to the bone.
And she says, well, let me tell you this, doc. She said, in one of my experiences, they stopped an insect in midstream, stopped it with a little pinpoint blue light, and they told her they could find that insect
anywhere on this planet if they wanted to find it. So do you really think that an advanced civilization
needs a glob to use as a tracking device? I don't think so. And as to what they are doing there,
maybe they are monitoring something. Maybe they're monitoring our genetics. We know that, in large, the abduction phenomena
involves the taking of sperm and egg. David Jacobs thinks there's a hybrid program. There could very well be. But maybe we're being genetically manipulated.
So maybe they're following that. Who knows? Anybody that has the answers that gets up before you in an audience like this, thinks they have the answers, and starts telling you, put a finger in each ear
and run out the room. No, we don't know. Yes? Based on your last comment, do you think that our genetics are dynamic, as well as there seems to be no evidence of scars
from an external insertion? Is that a common phenomenon that you see? Yes. In all of the cases, other than the ones that we did for a scoop mark surgeries, which were two in number,
none of them had any kind of a portable entry. And believe me, we look quite closely. We use a loop. If it's in the foot, we cover the whole leg
looking for somewhere where it could have gone in and migrated. We haven't found any scar.
And how about the dynamics of our DNA? Of our genetics? Yes. More and more all the time. We know that DNA now not only does what it does,
but it has an electronic signature. So, you know, if we could develop a mechanical electronic device,
I could find you wherever I wanted. I wouldn't have to put an implant in you to find you.
So, yes. And can it change? Yes, it can change. It is dynamic. Thank you. Next? He had nearly the same question I did,
but I'll take it a little further. Are you in contact with any groups or individuals
studying the quantum capabilities of DNA? And have you seen any evidence of this
in your studies of implants? Cleve Baxter sort of thing. I am quite fortunate in being friends
with a DNA researcher, one of the finest in the world. He's also the one that worked on some of the stuff with Betty Hill's dress. And we're learning more and more about DNA and various things all the time. It's totally ongoing.
Hello, Dr. Lehrer. Phil Konkoleski of Michigan MUFON. I had a question also about scarring. You said that in most of the cases there haven't been any scarring
from the insertion of these objects. Has there been a real detailed study on people who have scars to check to see
if they may also have implants? Good question. Yes. I get numerous, numerous, numerous emails
and phone calls, et cetera. And when I go to conferences, there are people that come up that do have a scar
and think they might have an object. And my advice to them is go have a plain, simple x-ray taken. You know, what's a few Roentgens going to do
in the face of the environment that we live in? How can I make that much difference? Get a plain, simple x-ray taken and see if anything shows up. Next.
Two questions, if I could. Have you ever considered a very fine needle insertion? I mean, you're looking for a scar,
but a fine needle wouldn't leave a track, per se. You're absolutely right. A fine needle wouldn't leave much
to find afterwards. However, when you find like a T-shaped object, which is a sonometer in each direction, I don't think you're going to have a needle big enough to put that in the body. Okay. So size precludes the insertion with some kind of a needle. Okay. Second question.
Most of the things you're showing us is soft tissue. Have you had any experience
with this being embedded in like bone? No. I have not found any of these, so far, embedded in bone. Now, the case that I talked about with an object in the neck and one in the maxilla, maybe that'll be a case
where there will be something in bone. But that's why it's so important to do a CAT scan, because a CAT scan can tell you precisely where the object is. I hope that answers your question.
I have two questions. One was, have you had a lot of experience or noticed many of the implants being what Bud Hopkins describes as being like the little BB inserted up the nose
or in the area of the brain? I have seen photos of objects that were reported to come out of the nose, but nobody has been able to successfully get one to me
to analyze. I would love to get one. And there's so many people that have reported this.
They've got to be around. And then my second question is, has there been any one or two common themes structurally
that are true in all implants? You've described the structures of a metallic core with a black sheath
on it. Has that been the case in all of them, or have there been some that don't? We have four now that are metallic objects covered with a strange membrane that are little cantaloupe
seed-shaped devices. The other metallic ones, one is triangular, one is T-shaped. They are also covered with the same strange membrane
that we have. I have one more question. Can I quick interject another? You said the tissue around the sheath
was highly innervated. Were you able to ascertain if that was connected to the nervous system
in some way? Yes, it's connected to the nervous system because it's like a radio. You unplug the thing
and it doesn't work anymore. Let's try one more question. Yes, doctor. You made a strong point about the absence
of inflammatory cells. Could you expand upon that and just how rare that would be
with objects in the human body? It is extremely rare and virtually impossible. You cannot get foreign material inside the human body without having a reaction
in the form of inflammation. You have to get rid of the object that is in there. There is a whole scenario of inflammation with increased blood supply, increased number of white cells, phagocytic development
in order to try and remove the object. Finally, it can't be removed. You get fibrosis that goes around the object such as what happened in pilots that were involved in war actions and had shrapnel that pulled off
and acts like it's not there. I thank you so very much for your kindness and your attention. If anybody wants a book, I'll be out there. Thank you so much. Transcription by ESO. Translation by — Transcription by —