Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality with Jay Christopher King

• Source: YouTube
• Channel / outlet: Engaging The Phenomenon
• Host: James Iandoli
• Guest: Jay Christopher King
• Published: 2025-01-05
• Duration: 1:14:15
• Sourced: 2026-08-14
• Extraction: Complete English auto-generated YouTube captions retrieved with /code/scripts/youtube_transcript.py.
• Fidelity: Verbatim machine captions with source timestamps. Capitalization, punctuation, speaker boundaries, and proper nouns are not independently corrected; verify exact quotations against the video.
• Related: ../../topics/contactee-tradition-and-experiential-claims

Transcript

[00:00:25.000] hey everybody welcome back to engaging
[00:00:26.960] the phenomenon and today we have a
[00:00:29.359] special episode episode we have our good
[00:00:31.400] friend Jay Christopher King who is the
[00:00:34.079] director of the experiencer group he's
[00:00:37.440] the co-founder of inquire anomalous and
[00:00:40.760] he he just newly uh released uh an
[00:00:44.719] excellent uh docu series cosmosis UFOs
[00:00:50.239] and the new
[00:00:51.480] reality and uh I I believe you were
[00:00:54.600] director of that and and
[00:00:56.920] writer uh I was the yeah I I was the
[00:01:00.840] director of cosmosis it's great to be
[00:01:02.760] here by the way James uh yes I directed
[00:01:05.799] the series uh Kelly Chase is the main
[00:01:09.600] writer of the series and I helped her
[00:01:11.759] out with the writing it says Kelly Chase
[00:01:14.240] with Jay Christopher King as the writing
[00:01:16.880] credit uh we did we it's basically it's
[00:01:20.040] very much a creative dialogue between
[00:01:21.960] the two of us in a lot of ways and the
[00:01:24.280] very small team of people that we have
[00:01:26.159] there and then uh we're both credited
[00:01:29.280] executive producers along with Jordan
[00:01:31.520] flowers and and uh Teddy Jones yeah yeah
[00:01:35.000] and so I mean that came out and how long
[00:01:38.360] has it been has it not even been a week
[00:01:40.560] yet that's right it came out on Monday
[00:01:43.320] yeah right December 30th and it's it's
[00:01:45.880] already like on some charts right it's
[00:01:48.360] on Apple TV like uh that's right yeah
[00:01:52.240] right now it's a number four in the uh
[00:01:56.159] the Apple TV store in terms of like uh
[00:01:58.960] the top 10 in TV series like right now
[00:02:03.039] the day after it came out it was number
[00:02:04.520] two and we're like what the heck and
[00:02:07.119] today it's number four it's right behind
[00:02:09.319] Yellowstone which is a huge show and uh
[00:02:13.239] that feels great you know and uh as far
[00:02:16.080] as Amazon goes it's on the charts it's
[00:02:18.480] on the documentary charts uh right now
[00:02:21.560] it's number eight on the documentary
[00:02:23.959] charts on Amazon so it's up there with
[00:02:26.280] like the program and uh Steven gre's
[00:02:29.560] battle for disclosure and a really great
[00:02:33.200] actually um uh documentary on
[00:02:36.680] mediumship and kind of psychic awareness
[00:02:39.239] called look into my eyes that's number
[00:02:41.080] seven so like we're we have like you
[00:02:44.280] know it's a really great group of folks
[00:02:47.720] and documentaries that we find ourselves
[00:02:49.599] in right now and it's an extraordinary
[00:02:52.200] surprise like we have we've hardly done
[00:02:55.040] any uh promotion for it as of yet
[00:02:57.840] because it just came out on Monday and
[00:02:59.480] we've all been on break and things like
[00:03:01.200] this but the word of mouth has been
[00:03:03.560] extraordinary and to see this kind of
[00:03:05.519] response is just it's mind-blowing it's
[00:03:08.799] truly mindblowing to see the response
[00:03:10.760] that we've gotten so far yeah and again
[00:03:12.920] it's it's called cosmosis UFOs in a new
[00:03:15.319] reality and it's where is it available
[00:03:17.480] again it's on Apple TV uh in the United
[00:03:22.080] States and
[00:03:24.280] Canada uh the UK and Australia uh it's
[00:03:28.319] also on Amazon Prime in several
[00:03:31.280] territories uh you can also find it on
[00:03:34.120] YouTube like the by paid episodes on
[00:03:37.480] YouTube uh and also on Google play right
[00:03:40.720] now and currently we're working on um
[00:03:45.560] some distribution so that it'll be in
[00:03:48.159] many many other countries uh towards the
[00:03:51.040] end of this month uh God willing fingers
[00:03:54.560] crossed but it looks good it looks like
[00:03:56.599] that it's it's going to happen so I'm
[00:03:58.640] I'm psyched yeah yeah and and you guys
[00:04:00.720] you guys really did a lot with this docu
[00:04:03.680] series and uh you know speaking of Word
[00:04:06.120] of Mouth I uh you
[00:04:08.560] know no conflict here but I I've heard
[00:04:11.560] people say that it was better than the
[00:04:12.840] program just putting out that out there
[00:04:15.400] well I mean I if if people are even
[00:04:19.639] comparing like what I did uh directing
[00:04:23.919] this with James Fox and his amazing work
[00:04:28.360] over over decades
[00:04:30.280] like that's absolutely amazing you know
[00:04:32.240] what I mean regardless of whether I come
[00:04:34.199] in under or like you know whatever if if
[00:04:37.080] people are even having like putting my
[00:04:39.080] name in the same conversation with such
[00:04:41.280] an incredible name like James Fox that
[00:04:43.120] means a lot to me I really yeah but
[00:04:45.280] really the both both I mean they they
[00:04:47.919] complement each other um you know you
[00:04:50.160] have James Fox and he's focusing on the
[00:04:53.000] program he's he's putting out the idea
[00:04:55.000] that there there is such a program that
[00:04:57.639] exists um I mean I think that's good
[00:05:02.280] generally um but then comes next you
[00:05:05.400] know I think cosmosis is like okay well
[00:05:07.520] what what the hell is this really all
[00:05:08.960] about and I think you guys did
[00:05:10.759] a excellent job um contributing uh
[00:05:15.759] substance and and inquiry and and
[00:05:19.360] insight and uh and like you know a kind
[00:05:23.520] of a very deep aspect into
[00:05:27.000] into the UFO phenomenon but also anous
[00:05:30.360] experiences and everything that kind of
[00:05:32.120] gets you know that converges around that
[00:05:36.960] uh you know
[00:05:38.039] again you know and you get you guys get
[00:05:40.280] into that into the series where you know
[00:05:43.440] okay wow we have UFOs yeah UFOs are real
[00:05:46.600] but what you know what what's next right
[00:05:49.720] like what does it mean I mean and and
[00:05:52.400] what even is the real
[00:05:55.039] conversation um and again you we we
[00:05:58.440] could do an like an episode or interview
[00:06:01.319] covering each you know each episode I
[00:06:04.520] there's there's they're really dense
[00:06:06.080] they're dense episodes man yeah no but
[00:06:08.280] but also it's it's I mean you know I'm
[00:06:11.160] I'm kind of Ed in all this stuff but it
[00:06:12.880] didn't feel like it was too much right
[00:06:14.919] like I I I would recommend
[00:06:17.919] everybody rewatching each episode
[00:06:20.919] definitely because even for me I watched
[00:06:23.120] it I went through a few times and like I
[00:06:25.639] had to go back and and pick up on
[00:06:28.440] different details of like what kind of
[00:06:31.039] what's going on here in this episode uh
[00:06:34.160] because there's there's all the
[00:06:35.080] different aspects to it and
[00:06:38.520] um you know with with all that
[00:06:41.240] said you know where where were you
[00:06:43.759] coming from when you created cosmosis
[00:06:46.199] like what were you trying to
[00:06:49.520] communicate sure okay
[00:06:52.880] so from a creative standpoint you Kelly
[00:06:56.479] and I Kelly Chase of the UFO Rabbit Hole
[00:06:59.120] podcast n we're really trying to figure
[00:07:02.039] out
[00:07:03.120] like
[00:07:05.280] what you know where are we headed where
[00:07:08.400] are we headed with the conversation
[00:07:11.120] around the Paranormal and the UFO
[00:07:14.160] phenomenon and the phenomenon on rid
[00:07:16.080] large
[00:07:17.960] like there are a lot there have been a
[00:07:20.440] lot of documentaries that really focus
[00:07:22.319] on the nuts and bolts aspects and don't
[00:07:25.840] really focus on the experiencers and
[00:07:29.560] have often kind of shaved off
[00:07:31.759] inconvenient
[00:07:33.160] details um with respect to what people
[00:07:36.360] actually report in situations like this
[00:07:39.000] partially maybe because of this
[00:07:41.520] pressure that you know of a romanticized
[00:07:45.080] notion about what's really going on here
[00:07:47.840] and like you know if what's really going
[00:07:50.159] on here or what people want to have
[00:07:53.599] going on here is just you know a craft
[00:07:56.759] that people see way up in the sky and
[00:08:00.120] like maybe it's from somewhere else
[00:08:01.800] maybe we don't know where it's from you
[00:08:04.360] know then there are then there are huge
[00:08:06.720] boat full boats full like an armada of
[00:08:10.080] documentary projects that really kind of
[00:08:11.840] speak to that but then for me you know
[00:08:16.080] as director of the experiencer group I
[00:08:17.840] see that there are a lot of overlapping
[00:08:20.479] phenomenon and so there are a lot of
[00:08:22.919] situations where people will see will
[00:08:25.000] experience non-human intelligence from
[00:08:26.759] the perspective of a UFO encounter but
[00:08:29.560] then they'll also experience mediumship
[00:08:31.879] or precognitive dreams or outof body
[00:08:34.680] experiences or near-death
[00:08:36.880] experiences and many of the The
[00:08:40.760] prominent UFO Witnesses UFO experiencers
[00:08:44.720] that we have on record that are part of
[00:08:46.720] really the historical discourse within
[00:08:48.440] this field have experienced other
[00:08:51.480] aspects of of anomalous phenomenon and
[00:08:56.399] and it's been shaved away from the
[00:08:58.640] discourse and so really we wanted to
[00:09:02.200] look at like what does this mean for the
[00:09:04.839] nature of us as human beings like what
[00:09:08.160] can we perceive what does this mean for
[00:09:11.399] for the nature of our reality what does
[00:09:14.240] this mean for the nature of our
[00:09:15.600] Consciousness what does this mean for
[00:09:17.959] our history and you know are there
[00:09:21.200] aspects of the cover up and many other
[00:09:24.160] aspects around that that cover up that
[00:09:27.720] like what are they really trying to hide
[00:09:29.839] you know and is it possible that they're
[00:09:32.600] not just trying to
[00:09:34.720] hide aspects of non-human intelligence
[00:09:38.279] but aspects of human potential and like
[00:09:41.480] what we can
[00:09:43.640] perceive and uh what would that really
[00:09:46.240] mean for the future of humanity at large
[00:09:50.519] does that make sense yeah yeah
[00:09:52.200] absolutely and uh I mean
[00:09:55.399] I I can't even um you know
[00:10:00.000] part of part of my uh like the engaging
[00:10:03.320] the phenomenon I guess I guess you can
[00:10:05.079] call it branding right I don't think of
[00:10:06.600] it like that uh but uh like even on my
[00:10:10.320] my Twitter background it says Awakening
[00:10:11.920] human potential through UAP and
[00:10:13.360] Consciousness studies right uh because I
[00:10:17.160] I love
[00:10:19.240] that you know obviously being an
[00:10:21.519] experiencer personally
[00:10:24.079] but you know you know you you know after
[00:10:27.120] having an experience uh and and I loved
[00:10:29.720] how you guys communicated this with uh
[00:10:31.959] with Courtney um who his story has never
[00:10:36.040] really been told and you know you
[00:10:37.600] featured it here in the first
[00:10:39.560] episode and uh It Was a Very Fresh
[00:10:42.240] perspective but it it speaks to all the
[00:10:46.959] other high Stranges that you're talking
[00:10:48.680] about and the human potential and the
[00:10:52.200] inconvenient um you know elements of the
[00:10:55.639] stories that come out that are usually
[00:10:57.519] marginalized because
[00:11:00.279] people and I get it right they're just
[00:11:02.079] trying to they're trying to just like
[00:11:04.200] get people to say hey there's something
[00:11:06.120] here um in order for people to swallow
[00:11:09.600] that you have to kind of you know for
[00:11:11.959] many decades at least they they just
[00:11:15.480] shut everything else down because it was
[00:11:17.600] too much for people and I don't think
[00:11:21.680] that's any longer the case really I mean
[00:11:24.639] not to say that it ever was like who's
[00:11:26.560] to say MH but I think now more than ever
[00:11:31.120] again you have this Catch 22 of the UFO
[00:11:34.760] subject being taken
[00:11:37.079] seriously uh but with that you know you
[00:11:40.200] have the official Narrative of what is
[00:11:42.760] still the acceptable acceptable
[00:11:44.920] discourse on
[00:11:46.959] UFOs uh so it it's a catch 22 because
[00:11:51.440] you have you have both of those things
[00:11:54.839] simultaneously um for sure but the um
[00:12:00.440] again you know tell us a little bit
[00:12:02.480] about how you came about uh Courtney and
[00:12:05.120] and his story and how that made it into
[00:12:07.000] the first episode oh sure okay so so
[00:12:12.240] Courtney um a really profound
[00:12:14.560] experiencer he shows up in episode one
[00:12:17.519] and in episode three of
[00:12:18.880] [Music]
[00:12:20.040] cosmosis and he was
[00:12:23.480] actually one of the
[00:12:25.920] first Avid listeners of the UFO rabbit
[00:12:28.880] hole Kelly Chase's
[00:12:30.560] podcast that reached out to
[00:12:32.920] her uh in the early days in the First
[00:12:35.399] episodes of her podcast and he was like
[00:12:39.000] I really think you're you're right on
[00:12:40.800] the money you're headed in the right
[00:12:42.600] direction he was very supportive and
[00:12:44.440] things like that and over the course of
[00:12:46.360] time she began to understand that he was
[00:12:48.800] an experiencer
[00:12:50.199] himself and kind of later in that
[00:12:53.800] Journey um she opened the conversation
[00:12:57.399] to me
[00:12:59.680] uh in terms of what his what his story
[00:13:02.160] was what his family story was
[00:13:05.519] and he was interested in he found out
[00:13:09.800] that we were working on this documentary
[00:13:11.440] series and so we' actually started
[00:13:13.240] shooting the
[00:13:14.959] documentary um before he was even going
[00:13:19.360] to be involved in it in terms of like
[00:13:21.680] being on camera and things like that and
[00:13:24.440] um as that kind of
[00:13:27.320] evolved we were just kind of talking to
[00:13:29.720] him a lot both Kelly and I and just
[00:13:32.199] saying
[00:13:33.399] like just not really wanting to push him
[00:13:36.880] to do it because like people have to
[00:13:39.279] figure out on their own timelines like
[00:13:42.600] whether or not it's right for them to do
[00:13:44.720] anything like this you know like
[00:13:46.839] Courtney is a private wealth manager
[00:13:49.040] like he handles a lot of money for
[00:13:51.480] investors you know he he he he makes
[00:13:55.680] money for people and like that's the
[00:13:57.759] kind of job that is
[00:13:59.800] especially delicate that kind of
[00:14:01.639] position is especially delicate you know
[00:14:04.399] when it comes to anomalous experience
[00:14:07.079] you know there are a lot of gigs where
[00:14:08.600] it's like if you're like a raiki Healer
[00:14:12.639] you're if you're an acupuncturist like
[00:14:14.639] like being an experiencer no problem if
[00:14:17.480] you're a lawyer if you're an engineer
[00:14:19.399] you're a doctor you're a surgeon you're
[00:14:21.880] you know you're managing somebody's
[00:14:23.440] money if you're in Insurance like there
[00:14:25.920] are there are a whole you know there are
[00:14:27.639] a whole host of gigs that like it's a
[00:14:30.120] lot harder um but he felt a real calling
[00:14:34.320] to like talk about this stuff and he has
[00:14:38.440] in his in his family history like he has
[00:14:41.880] a long line of of folks that have had
[00:14:45.800] anomalous experiences especially with
[00:14:48.639] regard to uh precognition and remote
[00:14:51.959] viewing and mediumship but also UFO
[00:14:55.759] sightings and and ghost and Poltergeist
[00:14:58.800] and apparitions and all all manner of
[00:15:01.360] other things and so he seemed like kind
[00:15:04.800] of exactly the right person to really
[00:15:08.399] focus on in a show like this
[00:15:11.000] because he really he has so much
[00:15:14.320] experience with the range of anomalous
[00:15:17.399] of of anomalous inquiry and and so does
[00:15:20.880] his so do other people in his family
[00:15:23.120] structure his grandmother his his
[00:15:25.639] great-grandfather his son like so many
[00:15:28.240] other people in his family structure and
[00:15:31.240] um and they kind of take it as a given
[00:15:36.040] like they've been open about it amongst
[00:15:39.440] each other for so many years that it's
[00:15:42.800] kind of like this strange Open Secret
[00:15:46.519] that's brought them together as a family
[00:15:49.880] and is like
[00:15:51.519] shown shown more to each other as a
[00:15:54.319] family like it's a point of Pride and
[00:15:58.079] togetherness for the as a family group I
[00:16:01.000] don't want to speak for Courtney but
[00:16:02.560] like I think it's incredible having
[00:16:04.920] gotten to know his mother and his
[00:16:06.360] grandmother and his sons and his wife
[00:16:08.880] and everybody else in the family
[00:16:10.240] structure going out and hanging out on
[00:16:12.680] on his paranormal Ranch down in East
[00:16:15.160] Texas like um it's humbling man you know
[00:16:19.759] like seeing that there are other
[00:16:21.079] families you know he's kind of like in a
[00:16:23.880] in a very different way there's been a
[00:16:25.959] lot of focus within the community within
[00:16:28.199] the UFO community on people like Chris
[00:16:30.480] bledo and his family and Courtney's
[00:16:33.560] story is in some ways not so different
[00:16:36.199] like especially if you start kind of
[00:16:37.839] like getting into it with them about
[00:16:40.120] what else has been going on and that
[00:16:43.480] would kind of point to the idea that
[00:16:45.680] maybe there are other families out there
[00:16:47.839] that have been kind of quiet about this
[00:16:49.600] stuff there probably are I mean I yeah
[00:16:53.480] there there most certainly are right
[00:16:55.440] right absolutely we know yeah um
[00:17:00.480] yeah so I mean I I love
[00:17:04.880] how you know obviously the UFO aspect is
[00:17:08.679] there but I think it really
[00:17:11.520] communicates uh to the audience I mean
[00:17:14.400] at least it did for me and I was able to
[00:17:16.079] relate to it that you know it's it's so
[00:17:18.199] much more than just this than a UFO it's
[00:17:20.559] it's so much more than just hey there's
[00:17:22.559] this object out there that's like metal
[00:17:24.480] and there's beings in there and like
[00:17:26.160] yeah maybe that's a part of it for sure
[00:17:28.600] but
[00:17:29.360] uh it's it's really way more than that
[00:17:32.799] and um you know I loved how that was
[00:17:35.799] communicated in the in the uh in the
[00:17:38.320] throughout the entire series and you
[00:17:41.080] know even in the first
[00:17:42.919] episode you know you you you take people
[00:17:45.640] right into the deep and you know you
[00:17:48.880] guys aren't even saying hey well this is
[00:17:50.679] probably extraterrestrials like right
[00:17:52.360] from the first episode you guys are
[00:17:53.720] getting into the different
[00:17:56.679] potentialities of nonhuman intellig
[00:17:59.679] and you guys didn't dumb down the
[00:18:01.360] conversation at
[00:18:03.039] all and I think especially people just
[00:18:07.120] coming into this now after like the 2017
[00:18:09.600] Revelation the new cycles of UAP it's
[00:18:12.400] it's no longer strange to have a
[00:18:14.600] headline that talks about crash
[00:18:16.760] retrievals and and offworld vehicles and
[00:18:19.600] you know that's kind of like Inc
[00:18:21.559] consensus reality now
[00:18:24.120] mainstream uh so I I think you it's it's
[00:18:28.000] all right to go
[00:18:29.400] right into the into that aspect of
[00:18:31.679] non-human intelligence and the different
[00:18:34.039] potentials
[00:18:35.640] because the idea of like UFOs being a
[00:18:38.720] reality I mean you know more or less
[00:18:42.039] that that's kind of been established by
[00:18:43.840] now one way or another right uh you know
[00:18:47.880] there's still the questions of like
[00:18:49.880] who's hiding what and uh what What's the
[00:18:52.440] real truth about it and what part of the
[00:18:54.880] cover up is
[00:18:57.280] um you know what is actually being
[00:19:00.000] hidden and who's hiding it like there's
[00:19:02.320] still that kind of squandering and MH
[00:19:06.679] misdirection and what have you but
[00:19:09.760] absolutely but you know the again the
[00:19:12.880] deeper aspects of the conversation
[00:19:15.280] of some of the
[00:19:17.360] different potential of you know what are
[00:19:20.080] some of these non-human
[00:19:22.080] intelligences um and and and with that
[00:19:26.480] if you want to talk a little bit about
[00:19:29.559] you know who participated in that part
[00:19:31.240] of the conversation and and added what
[00:19:33.440] kind of context oh sure yeah thanks
[00:19:36.799] James um you know Kelly and I I think a
[00:19:41.720] lot of it was just recognizing that you
[00:19:44.679] know nothing against other shows there's
[00:19:46.480] just so much pressure and especially if
[00:19:48.360] you're dealing with a network or you
[00:19:51.159] know executive producers that are really
[00:19:53.919] not in the kind of UFO space that there
[00:19:57.360] is this element of like trying to make
[00:19:59.840] something palatable for the public and
[00:20:02.760] the reality is that as you and I and
[00:20:05.200] many of your listeners will know there
[00:20:07.760] are more than one hypothesis for where
[00:20:10.520] these beings come from regardless of
[00:20:12.440] whether we're talking about the Grays
[00:20:14.440] the nordics the you know the incin or
[00:20:18.080] mantids or like you know orbs you know
[00:20:21.400] many other you know the the grand
[00:20:24.919] Ecology of what we're dealing with here
[00:20:27.480] there are a lot of hypothesis about
[00:20:30.280] where these are coming from and whether
[00:20:33.120] it's purely extraterrestrial or whether
[00:20:35.880] we're dealing with Time Travelers the
[00:20:37.799] extra Tempest
[00:20:39.799] hypothesis um which in our show uh we
[00:20:44.159] bring in Mike Masters who's like the guy
[00:20:47.840] to talk to about the time travel
[00:20:50.440] hypothesis an incredible incredible guy
[00:20:53.080] he's actually flying into town this week
[00:20:56.039] I'm really excited we're going to be
[00:20:57.200] hanging out with him this week
[00:20:59.360] uh he's coming into town to promote the
[00:21:01.039] show a little bit and um really looking
[00:21:03.520] forward to that I love Mike Masters
[00:21:05.559] hanging out with Mike is the best but
[00:21:07.640] like uh you know Mike really gets he's
[00:21:09.520] written several books about the EXT
[00:21:11.480] Tempest
[00:21:12.720] hypothesis and he makes a lot of great
[00:21:15.200] points he's a biological Anthropologist
[00:21:17.840] he has he's exactly the guy that you
[00:21:20.520] want to hear about this from and he's
[00:21:22.840] he's just like look you know they look
[00:21:25.080] so much like us you know and what's the
[00:21:29.400] likelihood of that and the reality is
[00:21:32.480] that we don't know what the likelihood
[00:21:34.360] of that is because we've barely
[00:21:36.080] scratched the surface when it comes to
[00:21:38.960] uh exploring other planets and like
[00:21:41.640] knowing what life could be like on other
[00:21:44.360] planets um but he does bring up a great
[00:21:47.080] point which is just like okay like we
[00:21:49.520] see these beings and they have like two
[00:21:51.520] eyes on their heads you know they got
[00:21:53.559] two arms they've got you know two hands
[00:21:56.000] two feet you know two legs and uh and
[00:22:01.039] their size is not so different from us
[00:22:04.159] like you know and recognizing
[00:22:08.120] that if our biology continues to evolve
[00:22:12.039] in the way that it does then our he
[00:22:15.919] contends that our Jaws will continue to
[00:22:18.039] kind of like push back and that our
[00:22:21.039] heads will continue to expand and we
[00:22:23.480] will likely look more like these gray
[00:22:26.720] beings over the course of thousands and
[00:22:29.159] thousands of years and so he contends
[00:22:31.840] like these are very very likely Time
[00:22:34.520] Travelers then there are other
[00:22:36.159] hypotheses like the ultra
[00:22:38.320] ultraterrestrial hypothesis and we get
[00:22:41.760] uh Greg Bishop for example to talk about
[00:22:43.960] that a little bit and and Joshua kutchen
[00:22:47.000] kind of speaks to it a little bit as
[00:22:48.640] well um which is the idea you know the
[00:22:51.919] ultraterrestrial and crypt terrestrial
[00:22:54.320] hypothesis that there's essentially some
[00:22:56.600] kind of hidden realm or that like we
[00:22:58.799] could be cohabitating on this Earth with
[00:23:01.679] other beings um and uh that could be
[00:23:05.720] like under the oceans it could be in
[00:23:07.360] caves it could be in you know something
[00:23:09.480] that we're not anticipating within
[00:23:11.520] within the the biome or what like Eric
[00:23:14.840] Davis has talked about as the shadow
[00:23:16.880] biome right and so we really get into
[00:23:19.919] that a little bit and talk about um Tim
[00:23:23.080] galette's recent white paper um from the
[00:23:25.760] soul Foundation that was talking about
[00:23:28.240] kind of sightings of non-human
[00:23:30.640] intelligence
[00:23:31.880] underwater and um you know there there's
[00:23:35.120] some there's some great stuff there that
[00:23:36.640] I that I really love to see I mean
[00:23:38.640] that's for me that's kind of like and
[00:23:41.440] Kelly as well that's a favorite
[00:23:43.679] hypothesis you know like I love how put
[00:23:46.200] offs ultraterrestrial paper I I remember
[00:23:49.200] one of the first times that you and I
[00:23:50.840] hung out we were talking about how put
[00:23:53.760] offs ultraterrestrials paper and and
[00:23:55.760] kind of like geeking out about it a lot
[00:23:58.200] yeah and uh you know there's a lot there
[00:24:01.200] and then um we look also at uh the
[00:24:04.960] interdimensional hypothesis as well and
[00:24:09.080] you know one of the things here is just
[00:24:10.559] that like there are so many shows they
[00:24:12.279] they they've never really dealt with the
[00:24:15.080] range of possibilities and it's because
[00:24:17.880] there's been pressure to just like keep
[00:24:19.520] on this idea of aliens from other
[00:24:21.320] planets and there's great other
[00:24:23.520] hypotheses going on that could be very
[00:24:26.159] relatable to the public and and being
[00:24:29.120] able to kind of open up the the open up
[00:24:33.760] the range of possibilities for what's
[00:24:36.080] going on here and being able to really
[00:24:37.799] open up
[00:24:39.080] just talking about how much we don't
[00:24:42.480] know and how much we want to know you
[00:24:45.760] know and like not siphoning the
[00:24:48.880] conversation off to you know beliefs and
[00:24:52.360] suppositions as Whitley streber puts it
[00:24:54.880] in our show uh I think is incredibly
[00:24:57.679] important and so you know a lot of the
[00:24:59.919] spirit of the show is based around
[00:25:01.720] keeping an open mind and really giving
[00:25:04.080] Frameworks for people to think about
[00:25:07.640] these things in a more expansive
[00:25:10.120] way yeah and I I think you
[00:25:13.640] know when you open the the possibility
[00:25:16.919] for those kind of different potentials
[00:25:19.320] you're
[00:25:20.360] also kind of increasing the
[00:25:23.320] probability right of of the whole thing
[00:25:25.559] to begin with as well so I you know I
[00:25:29.679] hope um you know for a lot of people I
[00:25:32.480] think that's the first time they're
[00:25:33.760] going to be hearing about all those
[00:25:35.679] different kind of theories like you know
[00:25:38.679] if they're just going on to like Amazon
[00:25:40.600] Prime or Apple TV and they're like oh
[00:25:42.760] what's cosmosis you know they think oh
[00:25:45.640] man this is oh UFOs right I get it and
[00:25:48.039] then they're brought into this
[00:25:49.200] conversation like holy
[00:25:50.760] you know like you're bringing and
[00:25:54.880] and and rightfully so with the um the
[00:25:57.279] episode title UFO Rabbit Hole you know
[00:26:00.279] you're kind of bringing them in um but
[00:26:03.320] then uh you know noticeably in in the
[00:26:06.279] second episode there's definitely a
[00:26:07.480] shift in the
[00:26:09.039] conversation and um the episode is
[00:26:12.760] called hidden potentials but you
[00:26:14.720] definitely you focus on I guess we can
[00:26:17.120] say the start with the the Paul
[00:26:20.399] benowitz is featured in there so why why
[00:26:23.360] do you think it was important to include
[00:26:25.320] that part of the conversation in
[00:26:26.760] cosmosis
[00:26:28.559] sure so the Paul benowitz case for those
[00:26:31.120] of those in the audience that don't know
[00:26:34.520] um the best research that we have on the
[00:26:37.799] Paul benowitz case definitely comes
[00:26:40.080] through Greg bishop and his incredibly
[00:26:43.159] important Book Project beta Greg Bishop
[00:26:47.039] a really underknown
[00:26:49.440] um you could say undervalued and
[00:26:52.760] Incredibly brilliant um researcher
[00:26:56.080] within the field um
[00:26:59.080] you know he's he kind of took a step
[00:27:01.039] back for a few years in recent years and
[00:27:03.919] so a lot of people that have really just
[00:27:05.440] joined the field within the past few
[00:27:07.320] years don't really know his work and and
[00:27:10.480] why it's so important uh as much as
[00:27:13.039] those of us that have been around for a
[00:27:14.480] little bit uh but we're really really
[00:27:16.880] happy to to bring him back with his show
[00:27:19.840] um because his work so so damn important
[00:27:23.520] and it's so relevant um project beta is
[00:27:26.679] essentially
[00:27:28.480] largely speaking about the case of B
[00:27:30.520] Paul benowitz who lived in Albuquerque
[00:27:32.320] New
[00:27:33.399] Mexico and he lived near an an Air Force
[00:27:37.360] Base and he saw anomalous
[00:27:40.039] aircraft uh right near his house and
[00:27:44.200] they seemed to be exhibiting
[00:27:46.240] characteristics that he thought looked
[00:27:47.919] more like UFOs than than traditional
[00:27:51.240] aircraft and so being a good citizen he
[00:27:54.799] reached out to the Air Force Base about
[00:27:56.440] it because he thought that there might
[00:27:59.159] be UFOs like scouting the base rather
[00:28:02.480] than them being experimental aircraft or
[00:28:05.000] something along those lines and um the
[00:28:08.600] thing is is that instead of dissuading
[00:28:11.480] him and saying like oh that's just ours
[00:28:13.600] or like don't worry about it or anything
[00:28:15.279] like that um they really started to
[00:28:18.200] dialogue with him and you know set up
[00:28:21.919] situations for him to meet other people
[00:28:25.240] around that Air Force Base that were
[00:28:28.200] involved in National
[00:28:30.399] Security um that started to feed
[00:28:33.799] him you know lore stories about what may
[00:28:37.840] be happening there and you know he came
[00:28:42.159] to think that like there might be an Al
[00:28:44.720] Invasion happening and so he got fed
[00:28:49.760] information that that um and he even got
[00:28:53.000] given a computer right who gave do we
[00:28:56.080] remember who gave him the computer um
[00:28:58.600] I'm not sure if it was somebody from the
[00:29:00.360] NSA or if it was Richard Dodie himself
[00:29:03.080] like one one of the uh parts of the lore
[00:29:07.360] is that he that he was actually given
[00:29:08.840] that computer by Dr Jan and
[00:29:11.679] heinik I don't know how how thoroughly
[00:29:14.080] that's been confirmed but that's uh part
[00:29:16.200] of the conversation for sure I I love
[00:29:19.279] that idea and that that would be like a
[00:29:21.720] huge Wrinkle in the conversation if he
[00:29:23.960] got that computer from Jay alen heinik
[00:29:26.760] himself because
[00:29:29.039] that computer was was wired to a
[00:29:33.640] receiver and he was supposedly getting
[00:29:37.200] these these communications from from
[00:29:40.519] offworld entities and we actually have
[00:29:43.279] some graphics in the show that show dot
[00:29:45.679] matrix printouts from those messages uh
[00:29:49.399] from Greg's Book Project beta and um and
[00:29:52.640] it was all Fabrications it was all it
[00:29:54.919] was all you know being fed to him you
[00:29:57.840] know know and and the fact that you know
[00:30:01.720] this stuff happens that that so much
[00:30:05.440] money is spent on secrecy there are a
[00:30:08.480] lot of projects now we know within the
[00:30:11.880] National Security State within the
[00:30:13.480] military and things like this and it can
[00:30:15.320] be understandable like we're like under
[00:30:17.600] the opes of keeping us safe what have
[00:30:20.640] you that there will be a program and
[00:30:23.760] then the budget for security around a
[00:30:26.640] program can be six to seven times the
[00:30:30.640] budget of the program itself to keep it
[00:30:34.679] secret yeah and and some of that secrecy
[00:30:38.559] can be built around things like this
[00:30:41.360] situation the Paul Benoit situation
[00:30:43.519] lying to people creating confabulations
[00:30:47.000] it like letting people think things that
[00:30:49.279] aren't true to to like further that line
[00:30:53.399] of inquiry or for further those beliefs
[00:30:57.519] so that um people don't really see
[00:30:59.760] what's going on and um and that can be
[00:31:03.760] somewhat understandable I mean you
[00:31:06.880] know one of the things here is that that
[00:31:09.919] there's all this push for transparency
[00:31:12.279] which is incredibly understandable this
[00:31:14.399] push for disclosure it's incredibly
[00:31:16.559] understandable and we want to know what
[00:31:19.360] the hell is going on and at the same
[00:31:21.960] time there's the very understandable
[00:31:24.960] situation where some of the people that
[00:31:27.039] we're looking to for answers are they're
[00:31:30.919] from the intelligence Community they're
[00:31:32.679] from the military and in some situations
[00:31:36.279] these are people that literally can't
[00:31:38.039] tell us what's going on and so they'll
[00:31:39.919] say like oh I can't say this I can't say
[00:31:41.880] that and then in other situations they
[00:31:44.120] are obligated to lie to us they're
[00:31:47.080] obligated to lie to us and like and like
[00:31:50.840] the the reality of that is that like
[00:31:54.320] it's understandable in a lot of ways
[00:31:56.679] because they can't you know we can't let
[00:32:01.480] or the idea is that we can't let Russia
[00:32:04.320] or China know our capabilities or we
[00:32:07.000] can't know other nation states that
[00:32:09.880] threaten us know what we've really got
[00:32:12.320] going on and so they can't just hold a
[00:32:16.039] meeting in a skiff with every single you
[00:32:19.919] know citizen of the United States they
[00:32:21.760] can't bring 286 million people or
[00:32:24.360] whatever it is right now into a skiff
[00:32:27.080] and say like okay pinky swear you're not
[00:32:30.159] going to tell Russia or China or anybody
[00:32:32.919] this is what's going on and then after
[00:32:36.039] you leave here we're all going to be
[00:32:37.159] quiet about it and it'll be fine right
[00:32:39.320] and so there's that idea that like you
[00:32:42.320] know you if anybody tells us what's
[00:32:45.399] going on it's all it's also going to
[00:32:47.320] just be you know an open situation to
[00:32:50.279] other folks right and um and that's it's
[00:32:53.880] one of the aspects where it's it's just
[00:32:55.799] like
[00:32:58.159] I think many of us wish
[00:33:01.240] that a we need to acclimate to that
[00:33:04.600] level of the conversation it's 2025
[00:33:07.000] things are only getting more serious
[00:33:08.600] like there's these drone incursions like
[00:33:11.639] there's a bunch of what seem like sciops
[00:33:14.240] even around the Drone incursions
[00:33:15.799] happening even just in recent days uh
[00:33:18.760] there are the Congressional hearings and
[00:33:20.639] that there's a lot of kind of there's a
[00:33:23.360] lot of back and forth about how you know
[00:33:26.279] constructive those Congressional
[00:33:28.200] hearings have actually been you know
[00:33:30.440] especially the most recent
[00:33:32.320] one uh there's a lot of talk about like
[00:33:35.519] what is Arrow really doing and are they
[00:33:38.240] really continuing in the kind of
[00:33:40.559] explaining it away construct that
[00:33:43.760] Project Blue Book and Grudge and others
[00:33:46.760] have done in the past and um there's an
[00:33:50.919] aspect where it seems like we really
[00:33:54.200] need to level up the
[00:33:56.159] conversation at least in terms of
[00:33:58.080] euphology
[00:33:59.240] to acclimate to the greater
[00:34:02.480] understanding of the general world that
[00:34:05.000] that we get lied to by these people and
[00:34:07.799] for some reason like everybody else in
[00:34:10.280] the world understands this except for
[00:34:12.679] people that are interested in
[00:34:15.119] UFOs like we like UFO people used to be
[00:34:19.040] the people that St behind the curtain
[00:34:21.960] and for whatever reason over the course
[00:34:23.960] of the last 10 years we've been
[00:34:26.000] hoodwinked we've been Hood winked as a
[00:34:29.040] community into believing that we should
[00:34:31.919] listen to these people and we should
[00:34:33.960] listen to everything that they say with
[00:34:37.079] regard to this stuff and it's a lie it's
[00:34:41.159] an absolute lie and it's a lie under the
[00:34:43.879] opes of National Security it's an
[00:34:46.480] honorable lie in a lot of ways or it can
[00:34:49.119] be understood to be that um but it is
[00:34:52.639] that and like let's grow up let's be
[00:34:56.000] adults let's think about this stuff
[00:34:58.760] let's really see what's going on here
[00:35:01.520] and it can actually make us feel less
[00:35:04.680] crazy or less anxious or less conflicted
[00:35:09.200] to recognize that you
[00:35:12.119] know the situation is that we live under
[00:35:15.240] a national security state that is built
[00:35:18.760] on aisc it's built on non-transparency
[00:35:22.240] and if we're going to get to some of
[00:35:25.040] these answers we need to look to
[00:35:27.800] alternative situations other than the
[00:35:29.680] National Security State to have
[00:35:32.280] them yeah and I think you know with part
[00:35:35.520] of that
[00:35:37.960] is you know you have to be able to have
[00:35:40.240] the conversation without being decisive
[00:35:43.160] if I mean if if and when possible
[00:35:46.839] because then people just build camps
[00:35:49.280] around different
[00:35:51.560] personalities and I I mean rather than
[00:35:54.319] doing that I mean yeah acknowledge it
[00:35:56.760] for what it is but then also state state
[00:35:59.240] the facts for what they
[00:36:00.920] are um at least to begin with right
[00:36:05.319] because you know people need to
[00:36:07.280] acknowledge you know right
[00:36:09.760] like I'm just going to say this as an
[00:36:11.800] example I can't I don't know the the
[00:36:13.359] truth about this right but just say they
[00:36:15.520] they put out the Bob Lazar thing is it
[00:36:17.520] was an intentional
[00:36:18.920] scop because they wanted uh Soviet Union
[00:36:23.200] Russia China whoever to think oh that's
[00:36:27.160] how the repulsion Works in like the
[00:36:30.040] slight of hand thing where it has you
[00:36:32.000] know they're they're actually it's just
[00:36:35.200] trying to opusc how the technology
[00:36:39.200] works and really has nothing to do with
[00:36:42.480] us as Americans and telling American
[00:36:45.280] citizens the truth or disclosure but you
[00:36:48.319] know to prevent them from making
[00:36:49.920] breakthroughs because you know or you
[00:36:53.280] know you know similar to The Majestic
[00:36:55.680] papers right where
[00:36:58.720] the the actual Majestic papers are
[00:37:01.040] called the ones that made it out to the
[00:37:02.760] public are called Second
[00:37:04.400] Generation and um they were based on
[00:37:07.440] real papers uh and you can can I'm
[00:37:11.000] saying all this allegedly right
[00:37:13.640] example um and the real papers actually
[00:37:17.400] exist but the secondary peppers were
[00:37:19.359] made to catch out moles in the program
[00:37:22.760] and that but that's what made it out so
[00:37:24.400] there are legitimate uh aspects to those
[00:37:27.280] pap ERS but it's
[00:37:30.400] still it may you know the UFO Community
[00:37:33.680] was
[00:37:34.599] utilized but it it we weren't
[00:37:37.760] necessarily the target audience but it
[00:37:40.240] you know we were a kind of casualty in
[00:37:42.560] that sense and we're fighting over it
[00:37:44.920] but in the manuals and everything and
[00:37:47.160] when they're talking about the
[00:37:48.079] technology now Soviet Union is trying to
[00:37:50.280] say oh maybe that that's how it works
[00:37:52.160] right um or or they were trying to find
[00:37:55.839] people within the program that were
[00:37:58.640] giving information away and what have
[00:38:00.280] you so that you
[00:38:03.359] know it's it's so complex that I mean it
[00:38:07.280] is they they did you know Greg Bishop
[00:38:10.680] did an excellent job with project beta
[00:38:13.400] right and
[00:38:15.040] that's you know good on him and but
[00:38:18.359] that's that's only like 1% of the
[00:38:21.160] conversation exactly they did Mirage
[00:38:25.319] Men and um you know
[00:38:28.040] that definitely borrowed like a ton from
[00:38:30.359] from Greg's work you know for better or
[00:38:32.319] worse uh but I did appreciate that the
[00:38:35.760] The Mirage Men kind of
[00:38:38.400] um
[00:38:40.079] continuation so to speak where they got
[00:38:43.359] into different aspects
[00:38:46.359] of the
[00:38:48.599] disinformation targeted
[00:38:50.760] individuals mhm um
[00:38:54.920] and you know again things that
[00:38:57.960] jacqu Valle has said which is like
[00:39:01.040] what like you know jacqu valet was on
[00:39:03.319] Jeffrey misho in like the the late 70s
[00:39:06.000] or something and he's talking about how
[00:39:09.599] there are hoaxes being
[00:39:11.400] done you know where it's a staged UFO
[00:39:15.160] event um but himself and the scientists
[00:39:18.880] that he was working with concluded that
[00:39:21.839] it wasn't a hoax by the witness and it
[00:39:24.839] wasn't necessarily genuine
[00:39:27.920] UFO non-human intelligence phenomenon
[00:39:30.119] but it was some kind of other human
[00:39:33.200] actor State whatever you want to call it
[00:39:38.800] um conducting staged abductions for
[00:39:41.760] whatever you know there's a whole
[00:39:43.920] conversation that can be based around
[00:39:45.599] that that's a whole documentary in
[00:39:47.160] itself I mean that you could have a
[00:39:48.520] whole yeah series of of books
[00:39:52.079] discussions around that um absolutely
[00:39:55.359] and it's challenging because you know
[00:39:58.079] going there for a minute it's a hot
[00:40:00.160] button
[00:40:01.440] issue I believe that those documents
[00:40:04.119] exist I believe like I
[00:40:07.359] even have a reasonable understanding of
[00:40:10.359] where they probably are right now and um
[00:40:14.560] you
[00:40:17.200] know they've been weaponized like those
[00:40:20.720] documents have been weaponized by some
[00:40:22.760] people to suggest that like um non human
[00:40:28.480] intelligence abductions don't happen or
[00:40:31.119] something like that right and and yeah
[00:40:34.520] and the reality of the situation is much
[00:40:37.680] more complex than that you know and what
[00:40:41.079] it looks like a lot is that there is a
[00:40:46.920] strong history of overlap
[00:40:51.040] between people that are looking at the
[00:40:54.040] UFO phenomenon and then people that are
[00:40:57.960] interested in subjects like MK Ultra and
[00:41:02.680] like how do we manipulate the mind and
[00:41:05.040] like how do we perform enhanced
[00:41:09.160] interrogations on individuals and like
[00:41:12.440] where do we do that and like we can't
[00:41:15.680] necessarily do that in the United States
[00:41:18.079] because there are certain laws about
[00:41:19.720] that so do we go to other countries to
[00:41:22.440] do that do we go to
[00:41:25.440] offsite situations in Cuba or South
[00:41:29.440] America for example and do it there
[00:41:33.440] right yeah ja Valle yeah he had the in
[00:41:36.560] in in volume four Forbidden Science he
[00:41:39.400] he says exactly that he has the
[00:41:41.800] document uh you know in shc Vala's words
[00:41:44.680] regarding um Brazil and
[00:41:49.520] Argentina yeah and you know there there
[00:41:52.280] are other people in the community like
[00:41:55.480] you know contemporary people in the
[00:41:57.400] community and going back years that have
[00:42:00.920] that have like a decent paper trail
[00:42:02.760] about what this stuff is and like it's
[00:42:05.400] very hot it's it's it's not the kind of
[00:42:08.160] stuff you can talk about on a public
[00:42:09.960] podcast and and you know not have to
[00:42:13.880] look over your shoulder sometimes and
[00:42:16.640] yeah for good for a very good reason you
[00:42:18.920] know like when people when like Lou
[00:42:21.839] Alando talks about you know somber or
[00:42:24.200] something like that people have
[00:42:25.440] speculated about that for years
[00:42:27.960] and one of one of the one of the decent
[00:42:31.160] interpretations there is that
[00:42:33.880] like people have been have have been
[00:42:36.599] throwing a lot of challenging material
[00:42:40.880] into the UFO coverup for decades and a
[00:42:45.680] lot of it as Greg Bishop says in our
[00:42:48.599] show and he says in Project beta and
[00:42:51.240] other people have said
[00:42:53.359] elsewhere some of this stuff has
[00:42:55.640] absolutely
[00:42:57.359] nothing to do with flying saucers it has
[00:42:59.920] nothing to do with the Grays it has
[00:43:01.680] nothing to do with
[00:43:04.359] traditional if you were able to be ever
[00:43:07.480] able to be calling it that abductions
[00:43:09.880] and other situations like that but it
[00:43:12.079] has a lot to do with human
[00:43:14.520] experimentation and human
[00:43:17.040] potential and it's a very very
[00:43:20.599] inconvenient situation it's something
[00:43:23.359] that that is going to be very hard for
[00:43:25.920] people to deal with
[00:43:28.040] um but it absolutely seems to be the
[00:43:32.280] situation yeah and I you I hope that
[00:43:34.960] that we'll hear more about that and it
[00:43:37.040] could
[00:43:38.160] be brought to the table as part of the
[00:43:41.599] conversation uh because it's equally
[00:43:44.559] important
[00:43:46.359] um because again even even if they're
[00:43:48.839] just
[00:43:49.599] using UFOs as a cover for that you know
[00:43:54.119] there are correlations in different ways
[00:43:56.760] right
[00:43:58.160] um I mean that's it's all on Slide
[00:44:02.040] N it says it right there in slide 9 it's
[00:44:05.480] talking about UAP but like in the
[00:44:08.599] headline or under it somewhere in like
[00:44:10.319] the fine print it says that we we
[00:44:12.359] already have and we've been
[00:44:13.680] experimenting with these
[00:44:15.480] capabilities already so and you know
[00:44:18.240] this is just the icing on the cake is
[00:44:19.760] how can you augment that
[00:44:22.400] technology um
[00:44:25.520] but you know
[00:44:27.640] I guess you know for for one last part
[00:44:30.680] of this uh somber aspect of the
[00:44:33.920] conversation uh I I mean I could I could
[00:44:36.760] just on what you're saying about the
[00:44:38.599] traditional abduction versus um some of
[00:44:42.160] this I I mean that's a whole
[00:44:43.280] conversation that I wish we could have
[00:44:45.240] right now but we just don't have the
[00:44:46.359] time for um but the the narrative so I
[00:44:51.160] mean you're you're the director of the
[00:44:52.920] experiencer group right I'm uh I'm
[00:44:57.559] uh just like a kind of random person but
[00:45:00.160] here we have engaging the phenomenon
[00:45:01.960] where you know interactions is kind of U
[00:45:05.319] an aspect of the UFO phenomenon and uh
[00:45:09.119] experiences and the the realization and
[00:45:11.480] insights thereof which are kind of the
[00:45:14.079] deeper aspects but you know what do we
[00:45:17.720] what do we do in in in a world
[00:45:21.280] where you know the narrative is what's
[00:45:24.000] making the new cycle and it's garnering
[00:45:27.160] the attention but you know we are trying
[00:45:30.240] to have a more deep and thorough
[00:45:32.480] conversation at the same time and bring
[00:45:35.000] the public up to
[00:45:37.359] speed you mean like how do we bring the
[00:45:40.960] public up to speed is that what you mean
[00:45:43.200] yeah the deeper aspect I mean I guess
[00:45:44.520] that's kind of part of what you're doing
[00:45:45.960] with cosmosis it is and like I mean and
[00:45:49.800] I think that that came through a lot of
[00:45:53.880] deliberation and questioning and
[00:45:57.640] um I didn't
[00:46:00.640] really in some ways I didn't really want
[00:46:03.520] to and it wasn't something that
[00:46:06.880] I I didn't really love the idea of
[00:46:10.280] spending so much time on the
[00:46:13.440] show given that like I have so many
[00:46:16.760] obligations with the experiencer group
[00:46:19.040] and it really kind of put me in a
[00:46:20.599] situation where you know it it became
[00:46:24.280] sometimes hard to like keep doing
[00:46:26.160] support groups and keep managing the
[00:46:28.720] experiencer group while doing this
[00:46:30.480] documentary series and at the same time
[00:46:32.359] it felt like the most important thing
[00:46:35.079] that we could do
[00:46:37.480] because what else can we do like policy
[00:46:40.240] papers like trying to feed things
[00:46:42.240] through the government or whatever
[00:46:44.800] like there's so many games that are
[00:46:47.200] played in that way and if and it seemed
[00:46:50.920] like really getting to the people
[00:46:53.359] themselves and being able to fund it
[00:46:55.599] independently
[00:46:57.359] without having anybody kind of interrupt
[00:47:00.040] and intercede in in the conversation and
[00:47:03.839] being able to talk to people directly
[00:47:05.920] seemed like the most important most
[00:47:09.359] significant and most helpful way to to
[00:47:12.119] go about this um for myself and for
[00:47:15.760] Kelly and for Jordan and for others that
[00:47:18.200] are involved in the project and you're
[00:47:20.119] involved in the project I mean like you
[00:47:21.880] know you're a talking head in the show
[00:47:23.480] and it's your TV debut man that's
[00:47:26.119] awesome like you've got a couple
[00:47:27.760] projects coming up but like it's so cool
[00:47:29.760] that like I'm really I'm really dang
[00:47:33.200] proud that like you're in the show
[00:47:35.160] you're in I think you're in every
[00:47:36.520] episode yeah and and uh and it's so cool
[00:47:39.960] to see what you contributed here and we
[00:47:42.200] shot it right here you know like your
[00:47:44.520] chair was like right over here you know
[00:47:46.359] when we were shooting that and I um it's
[00:47:50.400] just so cool to see like what's able to
[00:47:53.559] be possible through Independent Finance
[00:47:57.240] and really trying to like come up with
[00:48:00.559] something so that we could have those
[00:48:02.640] deeper conversations and to bring you
[00:48:05.079] know fresh voices into the conversations
[00:48:07.880] like yourself or like Daniel alzando or
[00:48:10.480] like Courtney or or many other people
[00:48:13.720] that Robin Lasser or other people that
[00:48:16.040] are involved in the show that have never
[00:48:17.640] shown up on television before but have a
[00:48:20.319] lot of really important deep
[00:48:24.880] nuanced uh contribution
[00:48:27.480] to to make to the
[00:48:29.200] conversation yeah and I mean I love
[00:48:31.160] James Madden um his aspects his
[00:48:35.359] contribution fresh new very deeply
[00:48:38.040] insightful voice he makes up so many
[00:48:39.960] great points and uh he has a great voice
[00:48:43.160] for TV damn he does he's got a great
[00:48:46.079] head too he he already looks like he's
[00:48:47.800] on Mount Rushmore and so
[00:48:50.119] it's yeah it was great having him in
[00:48:53.000] there and um the philosophical but you
[00:48:57.160] know very kind of real implications
[00:49:00.200] right
[00:49:02.680] um were were there any parts was there
[00:49:06.839] anything that you you just couldn't make
[00:49:08.680] it into the final uh cut so to speak oh
[00:49:13.240] man yeah absolutely there there were
[00:49:15.400] like whole situations there there are so
[00:49:18.119] many stories like there are incredible
[00:49:21.440] experiencer stories that we couldn't get
[00:49:24.280] into the Final Cut um just because of
[00:49:27.720] time uh because of you know the stories
[00:49:31.400] that were or kind of like the Avenues
[00:49:34.280] and the segments and the Segways that we
[00:49:36.799] really we we were taking and how much
[00:49:39.920] time it would take to bring those
[00:49:41.520] stories in and there there are other
[00:49:45.400] folks um that we shot with that um that
[00:49:50.880] um like we shot with Keith Taylor Keith
[00:49:53.200] Taylor's amazing like I I love Keith
[00:49:56.119] Taylor so so much like he's an
[00:49:57.839] incredible resource you know he's a he
[00:50:01.760] he's in law enforcement uh he's such a
[00:50:05.280] great voice and he's such an advocate
[00:50:08.079] for people being able to report and uh
[00:50:11.599] he's been involved with UAP Med and many
[00:50:13.920] other situations like that and uh I did
[00:50:17.160] a great interview with him um a couple
[00:50:21.040] days after like our inquir nomus
[00:50:24.280] conference in December of uh 2023 I
[00:50:28.920] guess it was now it's like I'm losing
[00:50:31.280] time here it's crazy right yeah but like
[00:50:34.000] um you know it's a great interview It's
[00:50:36.200] amazing And like I love Keith's work and
[00:50:40.079] like at the end of the day like given
[00:50:42.920] just where we were weaving with the
[00:50:45.680] story we couldn't throw it in there and
[00:50:48.520] like and there's so much that he had to
[00:50:51.400] say but
[00:50:52.760] like there are so many other stories
[00:50:55.440] from other folks even from the people
[00:50:57.520] that we hear from a lot like yourself
[00:51:00.240] and Mike Masters and Diana
[00:51:04.040] P I would I would have loved to see like
[00:51:06.799] an episode threading your story as well
[00:51:09.920] oh thanks man I really appreciate that
[00:51:11.720] know like really I hope so yeah but you
[00:51:14.760] know like we've been really talking
[00:51:17.040] about it Kelly me Jordan others that
[00:51:19.400] like you know kind of like Ancient
[00:51:21.799] Aliens and like all these other programs
[00:51:24.640] in a different way you make it Bank you
[00:51:27.440] know you have a bank of this material
[00:51:29.720] and then you can draw from it in the
[00:51:31.160] future as well and so we're really
[00:51:33.680] hopeful and and we have some things that
[00:51:37.160] we're looking at some some vehicles that
[00:51:39.960] we're looking at for the future where we
[00:51:42.280] can start to kind of roll out some of
[00:51:44.400] those stories and some of those extras
[00:51:46.200] and some of the other stuff that comes
[00:51:47.640] out so that it could come out either in
[00:51:50.160] future seasons of the show or it could
[00:51:52.520] come out elsewhere as well and I'm
[00:51:55.680] really looking forward to that because
[00:51:57.520] there are so many there's so much
[00:52:00.040] richness there and you know for every
[00:52:03.359] interview that we did and for for
[00:52:06.480] everybody that we talk to on the show
[00:52:09.079] you only maybe see like 5 per of like
[00:52:11.960] what they really contributed and we'd
[00:52:13.839] like to to really show the true
[00:52:16.319] contribution of what people have made to
[00:52:18.079] the show for
[00:52:19.280] sure yeah wow and yeah I mean I i' I'd
[00:52:24.280] love to see um
[00:52:27.400] some different aspects uh if you guys do
[00:52:31.400] future uh segments or how however that
[00:52:34.280] comes out I I have a ton of
[00:52:38.119] ideas I'll K I'd love to hear them yeah
[00:52:40.720] yeah yeah um we'll talk about it offline
[00:52:43.640] yeah for sure sounds good um but so what
[00:52:48.160] what is what's next right now with
[00:52:51.880] cosmosis oh yeah well um I mean it just
[00:52:55.040] came out this this week right now I'm
[00:52:58.160] like um but um for the next couple
[00:53:02.000] months we're going to be promoting
[00:53:03.440] cosmosis Kelly and I were going to be
[00:53:05.359] going on shows like yours you know going
[00:53:07.720] on going in other places just to really
[00:53:10.359] continue the conversation and really try
[00:53:12.599] to raise awareness for for these deeper
[00:53:16.240] more thorough conversations that aren't
[00:53:18.200] dumbed down and and really trying to
[00:53:21.599] take the ball further down the field uh
[00:53:24.720] in the best way that we can because you
[00:53:27.200] know one of the points that we're really
[00:53:28.359] trying to make in the show is that
[00:53:30.680] Grassroots efforts are incredibly
[00:53:33.079] important and you know there's all sorts
[00:53:35.400] of those there's you know like what
[00:53:37.359] Keith is doing within law enforcement
[00:53:39.640] and trying to like open up you know this
[00:53:42.599] the stigma with with reporting UFO and
[00:53:45.680] uip sightings like with the recent you
[00:53:48.200] know Jersey drones situation that is
[00:53:51.160] still happening you know um it's it's
[00:53:54.280] important for people to be able to
[00:53:55.720] report such situations like that to law
[00:53:58.040] enforcement and for for people not to be
[00:54:01.000] treated like they're crazy and people
[00:54:02.960] like Keith do a great job of that
[00:54:04.640] there's the UAP DF UAP disclosure fund
[00:54:08.400] you know that that Jordan and Lester Nar
[00:54:12.040] and Matt Ford and other people are
[00:54:13.599] involved with and you know they're
[00:54:16.319] they're trying to do good work to to get
[00:54:19.240] get the ball down the field a lot of
[00:54:21.920] people are trying to do great great
[00:54:24.000] Grassroots efforts and and making head
[00:54:26.440] way that way and the reality is that
[00:54:28.559] like so much of this conversation around
[00:54:31.599] uaps and UFOs for decades has
[00:54:34.140] [Music]
[00:54:35.319] been as much as it's been kind of a
[00:54:38.400] rogue or kind of independent effort
[00:54:42.559] among many different people over decades
[00:54:46.000] there's also been a relative Conformity
[00:54:49.400] about what that conversation is right
[00:54:52.040] you know within certain parameters and
[00:54:54.160] things like that and so in a way like in
[00:54:58.359] many ways like these Grassroots efforts
[00:55:00.680] are incredibly important because like
[00:55:03.040] attacking this problem and really
[00:55:06.319] looking at this from from a a range of
[00:55:09.760] solutions from a range of of
[00:55:13.119] perspectives and a range of backgrounds
[00:55:16.119] is probably the best way that we can do
[00:55:18.680] it you
[00:55:20.000] know because the reality is like this
[00:55:22.960] phenomena happens to everybody and
[00:55:26.400] happens to everybody around the world
[00:55:27.920] and people report so many aspects of
[00:55:30.760] this not just craft in the sky but like
[00:55:33.799] communication from non-human
[00:55:35.200] intelligence or other more High
[00:55:37.880] strangeness
[00:55:39.799] experiences and they've been going back
[00:55:42.160] centuries and there's been a lack of
[00:55:46.920] transparency and a lack of
[00:55:48.559] forthrightness on the part of world
[00:55:50.640] governments and part of it seems to be
[00:55:52.799] based around the idea that
[00:55:54.839] like you know there's a lot within human
[00:55:58.520] potential that it only benefits the
[00:56:02.240] powers that be if they're ignored if
[00:56:05.880] those powers are ignored or if that
[00:56:07.599] potential is ignored or you know the
[00:56:10.720] edges of our perception are ignored or
[00:56:14.079] the real the possibilities of a reality
[00:56:17.280] beyond our current power structures as
[00:56:19.839] they are like those need to be ignored
[00:56:23.319] and so that kind of push pull and really
[00:56:26.520] depending on the powers that be to to
[00:56:30.680] articulate that clearly and effectively
[00:56:33.200] in a short amount of time you know
[00:56:36.119] within the next couple years or
[00:56:37.440] something like that it's it it really
[00:56:40.760] starts to stretch the it's it starts to
[00:56:44.720] stretch credulity in a lot of ways I
[00:56:47.520] mean you know I was at the first Soul
[00:56:49.640] Foundation conference um and I was
[00:56:53.319] sitting next to Kelly Kelly was on my
[00:56:55.400] right and Jordan was on my left it was
[00:56:57.200] like on TPS on Tops on tops and we were
[00:57:00.480] watching Carl Nell's presentation he
[00:57:02.839] brought up that Infamous slide and you
[00:57:06.240] know it showed like you know a kind of
[00:57:09.280] 20 25 year plan for
[00:57:12.200] disclosure and what it was the date that
[00:57:15.640] it had then was I think it was October
[00:57:18.200] 1st 2030 for like what's the actual like
[00:57:21.680] disclosure day right yeah and it was a
[00:57:24.039] floating day and so we have this we have
[00:57:27.200] this understanding and like this is a
[00:57:28.880] very methodical person and we were in a
[00:57:31.680] very private situation at the time and
[00:57:34.720] you know somebody leaked that slide
[00:57:36.280] early and there was a lot of kind of
[00:57:37.920] hubub about that and then it came
[00:57:40.319] through with the release of those
[00:57:43.039] videos but you know
[00:57:45.400] like I don't think that it's really a
[00:57:48.280] secret anymore that
[00:57:51.200] that there are a lot of people that are
[00:57:53.760] trying to figure out and trying to
[00:57:56.359] contend
[00:57:57.440] with how do we drag this
[00:58:01.160] out in such a way that it's responsible
[00:58:05.200] and that we can like see the results as
[00:58:07.799] we're dripping this information out and
[00:58:12.680] dealing with the Fallout as it
[00:58:15.640] happens right and so it's like we'll
[00:58:18.440] drag it out for you know people are
[00:58:20.240] saying like we'll drag it out for 20
[00:58:22.079] years if it'll mean that we won't have
[00:58:25.400] chaos
[00:58:27.400] you know in you know in the in the
[00:58:30.079] interim and to a lot of you know in a
[00:58:33.839] lot of ways that makes sense it makes
[00:58:36.359] sense to try to do this in a responsible
[00:58:38.599] way for people like Carl now and other
[00:58:42.359] people like that and then you and I and
[00:58:46.319] others know experiencers that are
[00:58:49.520] probably getting towards the end of
[00:58:51.039] their
[00:58:52.319] lives right and they don't want to die
[00:58:55.480] without
[00:58:56.680] an acknowledgment that they weren't
[00:59:01.119] crazy you know they want to hear that
[00:59:03.599] acknowledgement because like it'll mean
[00:59:05.920] something to them and what they can
[00:59:08.799] point to to their husbands or their
[00:59:11.400] wives or their children or their
[00:59:15.039] bosses you know or their neighbors or
[00:59:18.319] all these other folks even to themselves
[00:59:21.480] even to themselves
[00:59:23.839] absolutely especially to themselves
[00:59:28.160] and it's hard right it's hard I like I
[00:59:31.480] can understand the responsibility of the
[00:59:33.839] people that feel like they're in the
[00:59:36.480] driver's seat in that kind of a
[00:59:38.280] situation and then at the same time it's
[00:59:41.000] like are they really in the driver's
[00:59:42.920] seat are they really going to be able to
[00:59:45.640] deliver in with the timeline that they
[00:59:48.480] want to deliver things
[00:59:50.480] in and like do we have enough time as a
[00:59:54.039] culture to wait for that
[00:59:56.960] you know there's a lot of situ you know
[00:59:59.119] here we are we're going into 2025 and
[01:00:01.480] things are just getting weirder and
[01:00:04.079] Wilder and Crazier by the day yeah in so
[01:00:07.559] many ways you know and it's like do we
[01:00:09.680] have 20
[01:00:10.839] years yeah do like what do we have 20
[01:00:13.799] years for anymore anyway you know and
[01:00:17.480] like like maybe we need to grow up a
[01:00:20.319] little bit faster like maybe the only
[01:00:23.280] way that we can survive is is to grow up
[01:00:26.160] a little bit
[01:00:27.160] faster yeah and I mean that that weight
[01:00:29.799] is also you know considering
[01:00:33.319] that there's already been 80 years of
[01:00:36.400] wait let's just wait let's just wait
[01:00:37.960] let's just wait you know who's to say
[01:00:40.240] that it just won't get prolonged by the
[01:00:42.440] next people who step in and just shut it
[01:00:45.319] down like while you have the
[01:00:48.359] opportunity while you're ahead just do
[01:00:50.880] it while you can because maybe you and a
[01:00:53.960] few of your comrades pass away or
[01:00:56.119] something unfortunate happens and you
[01:00:57.559] can no longer be involved in the effort
[01:01:00.240] and it just gets shut down again like it
[01:01:02.520] did in the late ' 80s and early
[01:01:04.400] 9s um when there was an you know again
[01:01:07.280] alleged attempts um to actually do it
[01:01:11.720] um but I again I yeah I think that this
[01:01:15.520] idea that it can be controlled is also a
[01:01:18.720] little silly in a sense I mean just
[01:01:21.760] again uh you know kind of in correlation
[01:01:23.799] to cosmosis right I'm going to call it
[01:01:26.400] now cosmosis taking the conversation
[01:01:29.119] back um is that uh you know you have
[01:01:32.960] something like the telepathy tapes came
[01:01:34.880] out right and it is like mindblowing you
[01:01:37.880] know it's human potential and it's like
[01:01:40.599] Grassroots
[01:01:43.319] and and like people are freaking
[01:01:46.240] interested dude like they're ready MH
[01:01:49.079] you know it it jumped up to like number
[01:01:51.000] one and uh I mean that tells you
[01:01:54.240] something about where people's heads
[01:01:55.960] minds are at right yeah I'm really I
[01:01:59.480] love the telepathy tapes yeah I I know
[01:02:03.279] kai and I know Jen the two producers of
[01:02:06.039] the telepathy tapes and like they do
[01:02:08.880] such great work like what they're doing
[01:02:10.960] right now is so amazing and like I love
[01:02:13.640] that
[01:02:14.520] it's it's something that nobody was
[01:02:17.799] anticipating right but it was like a
[01:02:19.880] story that was right there whole yeah
[01:02:22.400] for for for people that were like
[01:02:24.279] willing to listen and willing to engage
[01:02:27.960] and for for anybody in in your audience
[01:02:30.640] now or in the future that hasn't I'm
[01:02:32.240] sure in the future it'll be less of an
[01:02:34.359] issue but like it telepathy tape's
[01:02:37.520] absolutely worth listen and like I love
[01:02:40.079] you know in the first few episodes cayen
[01:02:43.279] Jin you know it's kind of slow it's kind
[01:02:45.920] of a slow pace there's a lot of proving
[01:02:48.760] kind of basic parameters around these
[01:02:51.079] non-speaking autistic people having
[01:02:53.880] telepathic capabilities with their loved
[01:02:57.000] ones or people right around them and
[01:03:00.520] others and um and at first being
[01:03:05.240] somebody that you know in the language
[01:03:09.359] of D kple like I'm already flipped
[01:03:12.039] you're already flipped right like to
[01:03:14.400] people like us like that are already
[01:03:16.799] like very aware of the
[01:03:19.000] anomalous um it took me a minute to
[01:03:22.640] listen to those first three episodes and
[01:03:24.640] kind of be like okay right I know they
[01:03:26.799] were building somewhere I know they were
[01:03:28.200] building somewhere but then to see um
[01:03:32.079] not just like where they were able to go
[01:03:34.240] with the story but also to recognize
[01:03:36.680] like what the public response has been
[01:03:39.359] to it like right this the the structure
[01:03:42.039] of it and like building it slowly and
[01:03:45.000] thoroughly it was really really it's
[01:03:48.279] been really smartly done and I I really
[01:03:51.440] take my hat off to them like Kai and Jen
[01:03:55.240] and all of the families that are
[01:03:56.880] involved with that Dr Diane and
[01:04:00.079] everybody else that's been involved with
[01:04:01.520] that
[01:04:02.400] project
[01:04:04.319] um you know so much bravery so much
[01:04:07.279] courage so much
[01:04:09.319] honesty and
[01:04:12.359] um I love it I think it's incredible and
[01:04:15.799] like it's just a privilege to
[01:04:19.640] to to hear it it's a privilege that it's
[01:04:23.799] to I think the human population
[01:04:26.240] that like that this story is starting to
[01:04:29.160] get out there now and I think it's it's
[01:04:33.119] amazing that these are approachable real
[01:04:35.599] people that have been working
[01:04:37.720] independently at something that they saw
[01:04:40.160] was true and honest and real and they
[01:04:43.839] just like pursued it and like like what
[01:04:48.400] more could you want I mean the level of
[01:04:51.119] authenticity there is so
[01:04:54.279] palpable and you know it's like why your
[01:04:57.240] show is so good you know like like the
[01:05:00.200] way that it's independent and the way
[01:05:02.279] that it's like you know with the
[01:05:04.039] telepathy tapes the way that it's wonky
[01:05:06.079] and then it kind of sounds a little bit
[01:05:07.680] like a local PBS station or something
[01:05:10.000] like that in the episodes and stuff like
[01:05:11.520] that it serves it well because it makes
[01:05:15.160] you know that these are real people
[01:05:17.520] trying to make a real thing you know and
[01:05:20.760] at the end of the day you know I try to
[01:05:22.480] make an excuse for myself with cosmosis
[01:05:24.640] that way where it's like we we had a
[01:05:26.240] very small budget you know like our
[01:05:28.359] whole season is less than the than the
[01:05:30.640] budget of a single episode of Ancient
[01:05:32.720] Aliens and we we just like tried to do
[01:05:36.400] the most that we possibly could with it
[01:05:38.960] and it's you know it's still a little
[01:05:40.240] bit wonky there's still some rough edges
[01:05:41.880] in there and whatnot but like we were
[01:05:43.480] trying to tell this best story that we
[01:05:45.359] could with the money that we had and I
[01:05:47.720] think you know what we're seeing right
[01:05:49.279] now is that like people respond to that
[01:05:51.200] kind of authenticity they don't need
[01:05:52.920] everything to be slick they just need
[01:05:55.440] things things to come from an authentic
[01:05:57.680] place you know more often than not and
[01:06:00.680] and they'll respond to that and I love
[01:06:02.760] that yeah and and again just the way
[01:06:04.839] that the the public is responding to say
[01:06:07.880] cosmosis and the telepathy
[01:06:10.640] tapes and it's it's it's it's only going
[01:06:14.720] more and more it's not it's not like a
[01:06:17.400] uh you
[01:06:18.599] know something that's like fizzling out
[01:06:21.520] so quick I
[01:06:24.319] mean you know I I think it's it's just
[01:06:28.559] really people are really are are just I
[01:06:32.200] think they've had it with the the
[01:06:33.839] pretty much um I mean of course
[01:06:37.960] of course we have right but like I think
[01:06:40.359] the general public is kind of like at
[01:06:42.240] the point where like it's so obvious
[01:06:44.920] now and like how can you how can you
[01:06:47.400] take anything negative away from these
[01:06:49.760] projects right like cosmosis or the
[01:06:51.520] telepathy tapes like how can you walk
[01:06:53.960] away and say let's not do this right
[01:06:56.920] like how can you think that right I mean
[01:07:01.039] both of these projects cosmosis and T
[01:07:03.640] telepathy tapes they're very inspiring
[01:07:06.559] right I walked away from cosmosis like
[01:07:09.520] super inspired you know um even even
[01:07:14.119] being me and doing what I do like I'm
[01:07:15.960] already in it but you know it like
[01:07:17.720] reinvigorating for me like you know
[01:07:20.359] there's other people here doing this
[01:07:22.520] work
[01:07:23.720] and you know speaking the realness on it
[01:07:27.599] and we're not stopping you and it's not
[01:07:30.680] going to slow down so why you know let's
[01:07:33.920] just do it already exactly and I think
[01:07:36.680] that that
[01:07:38.359] like Kelly has said it before and and
[01:07:41.240] I'll continue to say it like I think
[01:07:43.200] that if people see what we did with
[01:07:45.839] cosmosis in terms of like basically
[01:07:48.760] being like okay I have a history in TV
[01:07:51.200] she has a history in
[01:07:53.079] podcast and really trying to find
[01:07:56.319] something between the two you know that
[01:07:59.880] that really felt like a contemporary new
[01:08:02.799] fresh
[01:08:04.000] take but also had the kind of like
[01:08:06.599] personal element and was not trying to
[01:08:09.599] like sand down all the
[01:08:11.559] edges that was trying to take like a
[01:08:14.880] personal
[01:08:16.520] Viewpoint and really write at large you
[01:08:20.040] know because like all of these corporate
[01:08:21.839] shows that we see they try to they often
[01:08:25.520] try to like make a product that's going
[01:08:28.000] to feel about as good to
[01:08:30.799] everybody and like in a lot of ways
[01:08:33.799] that's like an impossible
[01:08:35.759] ask and there are so many situations
[01:08:39.319] where you have to make the personal by
[01:08:42.040] making something deeply personal you
[01:08:44.600] make it Universal because people respond
[01:08:47.799] to that they see the authenticity they
[01:08:50.279] see the personal they can relate to it
[01:08:53.359] because they're a human being too
[01:08:55.960] and like if we can make more products
[01:08:58.480] that Embrace Frailty that
[01:09:01.920] Embrace personal experience that em
[01:09:05.480] Embrace like a deeply personal Viewpoint
[01:09:07.960] or a deeply unique Viewpoint rather than
[01:09:10.880] this kind of like General understanding
[01:09:14.040] of of lowest comp denominator like
[01:09:16.319] viewpoints or something like that like
[01:09:19.120] and that's one of the reasons I think
[01:09:20.960] why like podcasts in general are so
[01:09:23.279] dominant these days like I listen to and
[01:09:27.000] you do and like I'm sure like so much of
[01:09:29.520] your audience we listen to podcasts I
[01:09:32.480] listen to so many more hours of podcasts
[01:09:35.440] and this kind of content and also like
[01:09:38.359] audio books which is also like a which
[01:09:40.839] is like a single perspective generally
[01:09:42.839] speaking than TV shows like I'll watch
[01:09:45.880] some big TV shows and I you know you
[01:09:48.480] know I'm a TV director now like I love
[01:09:50.920] watching some good TV I love some movies
[01:09:53.560] thanks but like you know unique personal
[01:09:56.920] stories are are really what are reaching
[01:09:59.320] people these days and and it's the way
[01:10:03.360] that people feel
[01:10:04.640] connected and I think that there's
[01:10:07.960] there's a path forward here where we can
[01:10:10.000] take what we what we're beginning to
[01:10:12.360] learn from podcasts and be able to
[01:10:15.120] bridge this gap between TV shows and
[01:10:18.159] podcasts and make a
[01:10:21.400] product a product make a piece of art
[01:10:24.719] make a series
[01:10:26.199] make a statement where people can really
[01:10:30.280] relate to each other on a grander level
[01:10:33.600] that that feels unique and feels
[01:10:36.239] different and and and feels like the way
[01:10:39.880] that we want to feel you know what I
[01:10:41.560] mean that's not just like you know what
[01:10:43.880] are they rebooting these days like you
[01:10:46.199] know the next reboot of this or the next
[01:10:48.360] reboot of that that it can be something
[01:10:50.600] that people's somebody's feeling right
[01:10:52.679] now and they're trying to communicate to
[01:10:54.560] somebody else right now yeah does that
[01:10:57.520] make sense absolutely you know and I
[01:10:59.760] think um you know I hope everybody um
[01:11:04.320] goes out and they and they watch
[01:11:05.760] cosmosis and that they take something
[01:11:09.600] away from it I mean I think and I think
[01:11:12.000] they will if they sit there and they
[01:11:13.560] listen and they watch um and they
[01:11:16.880] connect and engage with uh you know the
[01:11:20.280] people that are talking
[01:11:22.640] and um and considering right if they're
[01:11:25.920] new to to the material
[01:11:28.640] like I think they will and um again even
[01:11:32.280] for for people who have been in the
[01:11:34.159] field like me and and other people I
[01:11:36.360] think uh you know it's very inspiring
[01:11:39.760] and it and it
[01:11:42.280] um it definitely touches you on a
[01:11:44.440] personal level so you know I want to
[01:11:47.360] thank you so much for that and I want to
[01:11:49.040] thank you for coming on of course man
[01:11:52.120] and again where where can people get um
[01:11:56.199] cosmosis sure yeah uh folks can uh find
[01:12:00.080] cosmosis UFOs in a new reality season 1
[01:12:04.120] uh on Apple TV Plus on on Amazon Prime
[01:12:09.199] video uh folks can also find episodes of
[01:12:13.080] it on YouTube and on Google Play
[01:12:16.360] currently and we're looking at other
[01:12:18.760] International distribution uh that'll
[01:12:21.400] roll out later this month and into
[01:12:23.840] February uh very looking forward to that
[01:12:27.159] and again Jamesy and doie it's your TV
[01:12:30.960] debut your TV debut in Cosmos the season
[01:12:34.840] one and I'm so honored that you joined
[01:12:37.639] us for the show um you know you're
[01:12:40.880] you're my brother you're the gentle
[01:12:42.960] giant uh UFO
[01:12:46.719] Hulk and it's it's so good to see you
[01:12:49.639] again and uh thanks for bringing me onto
[01:12:52.520] the show again and uh I look forward to
[01:12:55.199] see you soon likewise and and uh you
[01:12:58.560] know again if if you're an experiencer
[01:13:00.960] and you're listening to this Jay is also
[01:13:02.679] the director of the experiencer group uh
[01:13:05.360] so you might want to check that out and
[01:13:07.159] I'm going to have the description to uh
[01:13:09.760] the docu series and the experiencer
[01:13:11.760] group and everything in description and
[01:13:14.159] uh you know I hope to continue the the
[01:13:16.239] the cosmosis here on engaging the
[01:13:18.440] phenomenon and uh you know hopefully
[01:13:20.400] have uh you and Kelly back on and maybe
[01:13:22.320] some of the
[01:13:23.440] participants that were in cos mosis uh I
[01:13:26.239] can have conversations with them on here
[01:13:27.880] too about it as well would love that
[01:13:30.280] absolutely Happy New Year to you and
[01:13:33.480] everyone uh in the audience I I still
[01:13:36.239] have my Christmas tree up I I
[01:13:39.159] actually I actually left I was I was
[01:13:41.840] talking about whether I was going to
[01:13:43.080] take it down today uh before the show
[01:13:45.280] because I was like oh it's January and
[01:13:46.600] stuff like that and I was like you know
[01:13:47.760] what more people need to see my my cute
[01:13:50.400] little Christmas tree before it comes
[01:13:51.920] down so I kept it up for right now but
[01:13:54.800] it's coming down later tonight so anyway
[01:13:57.679] uh wonderful to see you happy New Year
[01:13:59.880] man happy New Year and I'll speak to you
[01:14:02.080] again soon Jay absolutely take care you
[01:14:05.239] too