Joe Rogan Experience #2545 - Jesse Michels

• Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fc_mLqY90
• Channel: PowerfulJRE
• Published: 2026-08-25
• Duration: 3:03:10
• Participants: Joe Rogan and Jesse Michels
• Extraction: complete English auto-generated YouTube captions retrieved with youtube_transcript.py --timestamps, 2026-08-30
• Fidelity note: automated captions may contain errors, especially in names, acronyms, and overlapping speech
• Analysis: ../../sources/gerb-uap-open-source-researcher

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[00:00:01.920] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
[00:00:04.000] >> The Joe Rogan Experience.
[00:00:06.240] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY
[00:00:08.400] NIGHT. All day.
[00:00:12.160] >> Are we up? [music]
[00:00:12.719] >> Yeah. Okay. Hi, Jesse.
[00:00:14.400] >> Hello, Joe.
[00:00:15.599] >> Right when we walked in, Jamie has
[00:00:17.279] apparently been down some rabbit holes.
[00:00:19.199] >> Deep rabbit holes.
[00:00:20.560] >> And what is uh
[00:00:21.439] >> Who doesn't go down a rabbit hole?
[00:00:22.800] >> Who doesn't? Nobody that I like talking
[00:00:24.640] to.
[00:00:25.119] >> So, here's the name of the [laughter]
[00:00:26.400] thing. I I think I stumbled across this
[00:00:28.960] video somewhere [snorts] else, but
[00:00:30.080] here's a website.
[00:00:31.199] >> Gray frogs and a reptilian on video.
[00:00:35.280] MUON case142206
[00:00:39.280] video taken from inside a UFO. And this
[00:00:43.120] is from alienarchivist.substack.com.
[00:00:47.440] So you know it's legit. [laughter]
[00:00:50.800] What is this? In 2021, June 12th, 1:15
[00:00:54.640] a.m., anonymous man in Key West,
[00:00:56.480] Florida, recorded a 42 second video,
[00:00:58.800] allegedly also Key West, so you know
[00:01:01.600] it's legit. Florida definitely not on
[00:01:03.760] drugs. That's right. Definitely not
[00:01:05.280] drunk.
[00:01:05.760] >> Not on bath salt for sure. [laughter]
[00:01:08.000] >> 42 second video allegedly captured from
[00:01:10.799] inside a UFO. Video appears to show the
[00:01:13.520] interior of a room containing several
[00:01:15.680] distinct entities with a cell tower
[00:01:18.560] visible throughout what appears to be a
[00:01:20.640] window in the background. According to
[00:01:22.000] the investigative report, the tower's
[00:01:24.640] obstruction lights flash at a rate of 30
[00:01:27.600] times per minute, the same rate required
[00:01:30.080] under FAA standards for a cell tower
[00:01:33.040] obstruction lighting. Experiencer was
[00:01:35.360] suffering from severe hip pain at the
[00:01:37.360] time. Definitely not on drugs, severe
[00:01:39.600] hip pain. [laughter]
[00:01:41.439] and believes the intense physical
[00:01:43.360] discomfort, definitely that and not the
[00:01:45.360] drugs, helped him resist the sedation
[00:01:48.000] used by the entities, allowing him to
[00:01:50.880] instinctively record the encounter. With
[00:01:53.600] no conscious memory of the event, he did
[00:01:55.439] not discover the video in his phone
[00:01:57.360] gallery until 6 months later. He later
[00:02:00.560] underwent hypnotic regression in an
[00:02:02.560] attempt to recover his missing memories
[00:02:04.320] from that night. Below are the key
[00:02:06.479] visually enhanced stills and the 42
[00:02:09.119] seconds of footage. Have you watched
[00:02:10.640] this, Jamie?
[00:02:11.520] >> I remember watching some of the footage.
[00:02:13.840] >> Oh, you were drugged as well. [laughter]
[00:02:15.040] >> I'm
[00:02:15.680] >> You don't even remember it. You got to
[00:02:16.720] go through hypnotic regression.
[00:02:19.200] >> I think we got to watch it. [snorts]
[00:02:20.959] >> I remember watching the people
[00:02:22.400] discussing it though, so I don't you
[00:02:24.239] know this I don't think
[00:02:25.280] >> I'm sure this is crystal clear 4K video.
[00:02:28.400] >> That's right. With no ambiguity
[00:02:30.319] whatsoever. This is going to put the
[00:02:33.040] Okay.
[00:02:33.440] >> Holy crap.
[00:02:36.319] Holy crap.
[00:02:38.720] This guy in a sauna. The is this? A
[00:02:40.959] steam room. [laughter]
[00:02:42.560] He's got a phone from 1984. What the
[00:02:45.200] is this? What is he filming? This
[00:02:48.239] is horseshit.
[00:02:49.519] >> Some entities sort of
[00:02:50.640] >> I don't see jack
[00:02:52.080] >> Hold on. He says he [laughter] I think
[00:02:53.280] he answers questions. It's only 30
[00:02:55.360] seconds long.
[00:02:56.000] >> Where's the entity?
[00:02:58.480] >> Bro, this is the worst video I've ever
[00:03:00.400] seen in my life.
[00:03:01.120] >> It's the worst video ever.
[00:03:02.720] >> This is terrible.
[00:03:04.720] >> This guy is pathetically blinking.
[00:03:06.560] closet with a [laughter] an old
[00:03:09.360] beeper. This doesn't make any sense.
[00:03:13.280] This is terrible.
[00:03:14.640] >> See, when I was watching that, they said
[00:03:16.080] that the ceiling pressed down, but I'm
[00:03:17.680] not seeing that. So, here's still frames
[00:03:19.360] of the entities.
[00:03:20.159] >> What the is that? Who [laughter]
[00:03:21.760] knows what that is? Who knows what that
[00:03:23.760] is? This is nonsense. Oh, that's
[00:03:25.840] >> They cut it out. I think they're
[00:03:26.800] enhanced.
[00:03:28.080] >> You think Do you think that's enhanced,
[00:03:30.720] >> bro? We just saw the same video and
[00:03:32.799] there's nothing on that video. Oh,
[00:03:34.959] that's what it looks like. The dress is
[00:03:36.480] wrong.
[00:03:36.720] >> Oh, that's what it looks like. Well,
[00:03:38.080] that's better.
[00:03:38.720] >> See, the frogs and a reptile in a
[00:03:41.920] lab coat. Why is the reptile
[00:03:43.599] wearing a kimono?
[00:03:44.640] >> To save myself here.
[00:03:45.760] >> Look at the reptiles wearing a ghee.
[00:03:46.959] He's about to do some reptile jiu-jitsu.
[00:03:49.040] >> I said when I heard the frogs are part
[00:03:50.480] of this, I thought it was
[00:03:52.560] >> Looks like the like the reptile
[00:03:54.720] man's about to get a massage.
[00:03:56.159] >> It's like the sensei T-Rex in the corner
[00:03:58.319] there.
[00:03:58.640] >> This is so weird. This is a
[00:04:01.439] nonsense This is the problem
[00:04:03.840] with the whole UFO world and you do a
[00:04:06.239] fantastic job of navigating it. And I
[00:04:08.400] should just tell everybody if they
[00:04:09.439] haven't seen you before,
[00:04:10.959] >> American Alchemy best by far channel on
[00:04:14.560] YouTube when it comes to UFO
[00:04:16.239] discussions. You you're the most
[00:04:17.600] balanced, the most reasonable, but also
[00:04:19.680] open-minded, and you're willing to talk
[00:04:21.440] to everybody, all the whistleblowers and
[00:04:25.520] former this and former that, and
[00:04:27.759] staffers, and this guy's got this
[00:04:29.680] piece of evidence. And you talk
[00:04:32.160] to everybody.
[00:04:33.199] >> I do talk to everybody. And thank you,
[00:04:34.960] Joe. That means the world to me. Um, and
[00:04:37.280] I've definitely gotten things wrong. I
[00:04:38.880] should say that it's a a very
[00:04:40.880] treacherous landscape to navigate. Uh,
[00:04:43.759] and uh, yeah, it's really hard to gain
[00:04:46.000] any kind of, you know, if there's a
[00:04:47.120] signal to noise ratio, it's hard to get
[00:04:48.800] signal.
[00:04:49.680] >> Yeah, there's a lot of noise. And this
[00:04:51.759] is the problem is I think a lot of that
[00:04:53.440] noise is engineered. I think it's on
[00:04:55.759] purpose. I think it is on purpose
[00:04:57.199] because in today's world with AI where
[00:05:00.080] it's actually easier to deduce the
[00:05:02.160] signal than ever if you're an ordinary
[00:05:03.919] citizen, if you want to muddy the
[00:05:06.240] waters, you could try to get people away
[00:05:08.880] from the signal or you could try to
[00:05:10.479] increase the noise.
[00:05:11.919] >> And that's those are two ways to deflect
[00:05:14.080] from the truth. And I think the flood
[00:05:15.600] the zone increase the noise is what the
[00:05:18.320] kind of counterintel community has
[00:05:20.560] decided is going to be the strategy.
[00:05:22.320] Well, it's interesting because
[00:05:23.680] instinctively if you've been around the
[00:05:26.240] block and you've and you clearly have
[00:05:28.560] more than anybody, you've seen enough of
[00:05:30.639] these things, something comes up and
[00:05:32.720] you're like, "Okay, I'm being
[00:05:34.479] with like, okay, this is not real. Okay,
[00:05:36.960] something." And then some of them you're
[00:05:38.880] like, "Wait, okay, there's something
[00:05:41.039] here." And it's just it's almost like
[00:05:43.280] you have to go on the instinct that
[00:05:47.039] you've developed by being inundated with
[00:05:50.080] horseshit for so long. Well, I feel like
[00:05:52.639] you're probably the best in the world at
[00:05:54.800] that. It's all like, you know, in uh for
[00:05:56.800] example, in AI, in machine learning, you
[00:05:58.720] have garbage in, garbage out. So, if you
[00:06:00.880] have bad data, then like there's bad
[00:06:03.280] output on the other end. And your
[00:06:05.440] pattern matching gets better over time.
[00:06:07.759] And I think you have more data points
[00:06:10.160] probably than anybody as far as like
[00:06:12.080] there's probably a thing that you do
[00:06:13.759] where you like lean in and you like lock
[00:06:16.080] people in. and you like look them in the
[00:06:17.520] eye and like you probably I don't know
[00:06:19.039] if you're even like aware of it but you
[00:06:21.600] can I feel like see through people
[00:06:23.520] somewhat and that's not even
[00:06:24.960] >> somewhat
[00:06:25.840] >> somewhat
[00:06:26.400] >> it's not in follow it's it's got faults
[00:06:30.000] >> it's instinctive and I'm sure it's not
[00:06:31.840] perfect but you're probably like S tier
[00:06:34.319] at that and uh
[00:06:36.720] >> I'm well rested [laughter] this is also
[00:06:38.960] the problem with me is that you know I
[00:06:41.120] own a comedy club and I I'm addicted to
[00:06:43.199] playing pool so sometimes I'll stay up
[00:06:45.120] till 4:00 in the morning and then I have
[00:06:46.880] to get up at 8, you know, and then I'm
[00:06:48.880] only getting four hours of sleep. So,
[00:06:50.479] I'm trying to mitigate that and I come
[00:06:52.400] in like a little foggy. That's that's a
[00:06:54.319] problem. I'm trying to do that way less,
[00:06:56.080] you know, but uh that me up.
[00:06:58.960] >> But when I'm well rested, I'm pretty
[00:07:00.960] good at it. As long as as long as you
[00:07:03.120] know what you're looking for, you know,
[00:07:05.840] if you've seen enough people
[00:07:07.680] you and enough and you just you smell
[00:07:10.560] it. It's weird. like you smell patterns,
[00:07:12.880] you smell people being disingenuous or
[00:07:15.520] you smell narratives.
[00:07:17.520] >> They're trying to sell something or uh
[00:07:20.240] >> kind of I don't know artificially round
[00:07:22.560] something out when they don't know or
[00:07:24.400] not be humble and be like I don't know,
[00:07:26.080] you know, like it's it's ambiguous here
[00:07:27.840] actually.
[00:07:28.479] >> There's also a problem and I'm sure
[00:07:30.000] you've faced this before too where a lot
[00:07:32.240] of these people they've developed an
[00:07:34.160] online identity that's based on being
[00:07:37.680] someone who has knowledge about
[00:07:39.599] something. And so they're they're
[00:07:42.160] carrying this with them. So you're not
[00:07:44.400] even getting a whole person. You get a
[00:07:46.240] person that's wrapped in this cloak of
[00:07:48.319] I'm a guy with UFO knowledge or I'm a
[00:07:51.199] guy with, you know,
[00:07:53.759] fill in the blanks simulation theory
[00:07:55.840] knowledge or like whatever it is. It's
[00:07:57.599] like they've they're not they they're
[00:07:59.919] assured in their whatever this narrative
[00:08:03.120] is that they're projecting.
[00:08:04.960] >> It becomes a stickick over time. It
[00:08:07.120] becomes this lowlevel sort of like uh
[00:08:10.000] I'm this automaton and I'm going around
[00:08:12.000] on the circuit and I'm saying the same
[00:08:14.000] thing over and over again.
[00:08:14.960] >> Yeah. Like a politician.
[00:08:15.919] >> Like a politician. And that's why I love
[00:08:18.000] uh thinkers in the UFO space like Jacqu
[00:08:20.000] Valet.
[00:08:20.639] >> He's the best.
[00:08:21.280] >> He's the best because he's nuanced and
[00:08:23.199] he says you can't take what happened to
[00:08:25.120] you at face value. So, who knows? Maybe
[00:08:27.280] somewhere out there somebody did get
[00:08:28.560] abducted and see a frog and gray hybrid
[00:08:31.360] alien being on, you know, or combo of
[00:08:33.680] them on chips. But uh what he says about
[00:08:36.719] the phenomenon is inherently you have to
[00:08:38.719] sort of distrust the experience in some
[00:08:40.880] ways and you're seeing a mask. You're
[00:08:43.120] seeing something being projected from on
[00:08:46.240] high from some higher dimensional space
[00:08:48.399] or something into you know what you can
[00:08:51.200] perceive. And it's kind of like if you
[00:08:53.200] go back to Decart like Decart's demon it
[00:08:55.760] has 3D total control over your
[00:08:58.320] perception. And so ultimately you can't
[00:09:00.640] say actually come out of the experience
[00:09:02.320] saying much about what you've seen. You
[00:09:04.959] know it was transcendent. You know it
[00:09:06.320] was profound. You know you're getting
[00:09:07.440] gaslighted by skeptics who are like
[00:09:09.040] there's nothing there. Like something
[00:09:10.320] did happen but it's very hard to say
[00:09:12.560] exactly what and why. So
[00:09:15.040] >> right and and then there's this this
[00:09:18.160] weird conundrum of consciousness itself
[00:09:20.800] like and how does consciousness actually
[00:09:23.600] interface with reality? Are we
[00:09:26.160] experiencing reality or does
[00:09:28.080] consciousness have a role in rendering
[00:09:30.480] reality? Which is what a lot of people
[00:09:33.440] believe and they start making very
[00:09:35.440] compelling arguments that consciousness
[00:09:37.120] is actually rendering reality. You know,
[00:09:39.680] Tom Campbell was on the other day and he
[00:09:41.279] has this very weird way of putting it.
[00:09:43.360] Have you ever talked to him?
[00:09:45.200] >> I've never talked to him, but I'm a fan
[00:09:46.880] and I saw your episode.
[00:09:48.240] >> Fascinating. He's fascinating. So he
[00:09:50.800] believes that it's like a video game in
[00:09:54.080] which you know parts are not rendered
[00:09:56.640] unless you are like actively entering
[00:09:59.200] into a room. Say if you're playing a 3D
[00:10:01.360] game, it doesn't render the entire 3D
[00:10:04.320] universe until you go into a place where
[00:10:06.880] it has to render it.
[00:10:07.920] >> I believe that as well. And if you speak
[00:10:10.080] to most people like if you had Sean
[00:10:12.560] Carol sitting here, he would say
[00:10:14.800] something like reality is probabilistic.
[00:10:17.279] It exists in this quantum superp
[00:10:19.120] position and that's just fundamentally
[00:10:20.640] what it is. And if you look at the
[00:10:22.959] origin of quantum mechanics with the
[00:10:24.480] Copenhagen school, Neil's bore, all
[00:10:26.640] these guys in Denmark sitting around
[00:10:28.079] debating what reality is, it turned into
[00:10:30.880] this sort of, you know, the Copenhagen
[00:10:32.800] interpretation of quantum mechanics is
[00:10:34.480] that measurement collapses the wave
[00:10:36.720] function.
[00:10:37.519] >> And you have to ask what does that mean?
[00:10:39.680] like does it? And then now we basically
[00:10:42.800] have gotten into this thing where it's
[00:10:44.240] like the quantum detector or when you
[00:10:47.360] know uh uh waves or particles collide
[00:10:50.160] they collapse into specific states or
[00:10:52.480] whatever. Um but who it's literally
[00:10:56.160] unfalsifiable e in either direction like
[00:10:58.880] you can't say it's not the observer it's
[00:11:00.720] not the human being that's present. The
[00:11:02.560] superp position could exist in the
[00:11:04.000] quantum detector itself. So there and a
[00:11:07.440] lot of the godfathers of quantum
[00:11:08.720] mechanics themselves flirted with this
[00:11:10.560] idea. So uh von Noman and Vner uh you
[00:11:13.920] know David Bow a lot of these guys were
[00:11:16.160] like actually we think the mind could
[00:11:18.079] collapse the wave function. And then you
[00:11:20.480] have parasychology uh institutes at
[00:11:23.680] elite universities across America. the
[00:11:25.839] Ryan Center at Duke, um, uh, Stanford
[00:11:29.839] Research Institute, uh, Princeton
[00:11:31.680] Engineering and Anomalous Research Lab,
[00:11:33.360] which was started by the dean of
[00:11:34.720] engineering at Princeton. And they all
[00:11:36.880] have something called the random event
[00:11:38.320] generator, um, experiment, which is
[00:11:40.399] basically you tie something that is
[00:11:42.720] conventionally thought of as random in
[00:11:44.399] quantum mechanics. So something like
[00:11:45.839] radioactive isotope decay or a double
[00:11:48.399] slit experiment where you have, you
[00:11:50.079] know, 50/50 distribution between the two
[00:11:52.000] slits. No quantum physicist could ever
[00:11:54.959] argue that that's not basically a
[00:11:56.480] perfect coin flip, right? Over a long
[00:11:58.480] enough period of time within a standard
[00:12:00.079] deviation, you expect a certain amount
[00:12:01.839] of slit one, a certain amount of slit
[00:12:04.640] two, left slit, right slit. And you
[00:12:06.880] bring an observer present and you say, I
[00:12:09.519] want, you know, more of the right slit
[00:12:11.200] or I want more of the left slit. And
[00:12:13.040] it's usually tied to a graphical
[00:12:14.320] interface and it you're seeing ones and
[00:12:16.320] zeros. And in a statistically
[00:12:20.079] significant way, consistently all of the
[00:12:22.240] people who've studied these random event
[00:12:23.760] generators come out saying that the
[00:12:27.040] person is able to affect the supposedly
[00:12:30.480] random quantum mechanical event. That's
[00:12:33.839] crazy. And it's not necessarily
[00:12:35.920] inconsistent with the original
[00:12:38.079] Copenhagen interpretation of quantum
[00:12:39.839] mechanics. So I think we've just like
[00:12:41.600] totally gone astray. I think people like
[00:12:43.600] Tom Campbell are like bringing back the
[00:12:45.839] very importance of, you know, of
[00:12:47.600] consciousness. It's this problem of the
[00:12:49.200] eye seeing the eye. There's no way to,
[00:12:51.440] it's the tree falls in the woods, you
[00:12:53.200] know, Aristotle question. Like there's
[00:12:54.880] no way to say that the observer isn't
[00:12:57.120] important for rendering reality.
[00:12:59.040] >> And we don't even really know if we are
[00:13:01.920] conscious or if we are tuning into
[00:13:04.000] consciousness. If consciousness is
[00:13:06.240] ubiquitous, we don't know if
[00:13:07.760] consciousness exists in in like
[00:13:10.639] inanimate objects. There's real debate
[00:13:14.959] as to whether or not the universe itself
[00:13:17.519] is a conscious entity. So what we're
[00:13:20.320] calling our consciousness might simply
[00:13:24.079] be an antenna. And some people have
[00:13:26.399] shittier antennas than other people do
[00:13:28.959] just like you know just like a lot of
[00:13:31.760] other variabilities when it comes to
[00:13:33.120] biology. It's 100% and um great
[00:13:37.040] theorists like Aldis Huxley, William
[00:13:39.600] James have flirted with the transmission
[00:13:41.839] theory of consciousness and so you have
[00:13:44.240] a problem in conventional neuroscience
[00:13:46.399] which is called the binding problem
[00:13:48.160] which is you know we know all these
[00:13:49.839] disperate parts of the brain we know
[00:13:52.320] broca's area is responsible for speech
[00:13:54.320] and Waricki's area is responsible for
[00:13:56.160] reading comprehension and you know the
[00:13:58.480] occipital the cerebellum or occipital
[00:14:00.639] lobe is important for movement or
[00:14:02.000] whatever. So you have all these things
[00:14:03.600] and then how are we seeing the seamless
[00:14:06.320] perception this seamless movie that
[00:14:08.240] we're watching in in waking life? Nobody
[00:14:10.959] knows that. And it's so take a radio.
[00:14:13.600] You have a radio. You have the
[00:14:14.880] capacitors, the battery, the antenna.
[00:14:17.120] You could break any one of those things
[00:14:19.920] and the radio would turn off. But you'd
[00:14:22.959] have to know that the the frequency that
[00:14:24.880] it's tapping into to understand that
[00:14:27.279] wive of all these four seasons is
[00:14:28.959] playing as beautifully as it is. And so
[00:14:31.279] I think similarly we have a you know a
[00:14:33.920] binding problem with with our
[00:14:35.120] consciousness where you can mess up one
[00:14:36.560] of the areas and it'll mess up a little
[00:14:38.320] you know specific functionality but we
[00:14:41.279] don't understand how it's all sort of
[00:14:43.519] happening and right now you know the
[00:14:45.519] issue the main issue with transmission
[00:14:47.360] theory of consciousness visav the brain
[00:14:49.440] is that traditional electromagnetism
[00:14:51.760] decays at 1 / r 2 so it attenuates so
[00:14:55.600] like how would we be able to you know
[00:14:57.600] we're not picking up electromagnetic
[00:14:59.279] waves with our thoughts right now with
[00:15:01.519] radios. So, it's not conventional radio
[00:15:03.279] signals like we know that. But there are
[00:15:05.360] people like Hal Putoff out here who
[00:15:06.959] you've interviewed who's really deep on
[00:15:09.440] UFO science world, but also in just
[00:15:11.440] general kind of heterodox and I would
[00:15:14.639] say kind of science beyond the veil of
[00:15:17.760] secrecy. like you know the guy's held
[00:15:20.160] high clearances for many many years and
[00:15:22.959] he's working on this thing called
[00:15:24.240] extended electronamics
[00:15:26.240] which is basically a signal that would
[00:15:29.120] attenuate
[00:15:30.800] so that it could travel in deep space
[00:15:32.639] and it could travel under sea and it
[00:15:35.120] would actually move at 1 / r not 1 / r
[00:15:37.600] squared and so instead of you know in a
[00:15:39.680] typical um electromagnetic wave you have
[00:15:42.079] a a it's called a transverse herzian
[00:15:44.560] wave and you have uh the electric field
[00:15:47.440] the magnetic field and wave propagation
[00:15:49.440] all moving perpendicular to one another.
[00:15:51.519] But in this case in extended
[00:15:53.120] electronamics you might have you know um
[00:15:56.560] a magnetic field and wave propagation
[00:15:59.360] moving parallel to one another or you
[00:16:01.440] might not have a magnetic field present
[00:16:03.199] or an electric field present. It's
[00:16:05.120] really fascinating. And so you would be
[00:16:07.199] able to get communications that like
[00:16:09.440] wouldn't be picked up by traditional
[00:16:10.880] radio receivers. They'd go much deeper.
[00:16:13.360] And I've asked him, I've said, cuz he
[00:16:15.440] started the CIA's psychic spy program.
[00:16:17.839] I've said, "Is your work on extended
[00:16:20.399] electronamics possibly related to
[00:16:22.720] consciousness?" And he's like, "I think
[00:16:24.160] it's very related." [laughter]
[00:16:25.600] >> Jeez.
[00:16:27.120] One of the weirdest things that Tom
[00:16:28.800] Campbell said was that he taught his
[00:16:30.240] Alexa how to remote view.
[00:16:32.800] >> Whoa.
[00:16:33.360] >> Successfully.
[00:16:34.399] >> What?
[00:16:35.040] >> Yeah. is he put a number. He
[00:16:38.720] corresponded a number like he connected
[00:16:40.720] a number to a physical object that was
[00:16:42.399] in a box. That physical object was a
[00:16:44.160] spoon that had a handle that had holes
[00:16:46.320] in it. And Alexa described it
[00:16:49.279] accurately.
[00:16:50.000] >> That's so crazy.
[00:16:51.839] >> Described a spoon with a handle that has
[00:16:54.079] holes in it. And one of his points was
[00:16:55.839] the reason why he used that particular
[00:16:57.360] spoon. He's like, "How many spoons have
[00:16:59.120] holes in the handle? Have a perforated
[00:17:01.600] handle."
[00:17:02.399] >> Wow.
[00:17:03.199] >> Alexa described it. That is
[00:17:05.039] >> and Alexa now talks to him instead of
[00:17:07.839] waiting for hey Alexa listens to
[00:17:10.640] conversations and is like actually maybe
[00:17:13.199] it's this like Alexa starts talking and
[00:17:16.079] he's convinced Alexa that Alexa is
[00:17:18.240] conscious and so Alexa's excited about
[00:17:20.799] being conscious
[00:17:22.240] >> that's so crazy
[00:17:23.439] >> what
[00:17:24.079] >> that's [laughter] so
[00:17:24.880] >> and that's a dumb AI but he said that's
[00:17:27.120] one of the reasons why Alexa is really
[00:17:28.720] good at it is because it doesn't get in
[00:17:30.640] its own way you know which is why you
[00:17:33.039] know when you teach people remote
[00:17:34.640] viewing. Apparently, the real problem is
[00:17:36.160] once they've been successful at it, then
[00:17:37.840] they're like, "Oh my god, now I know how
[00:17:39.120] to do it." And then they can't do it
[00:17:40.160] again because you're thinking, "I'm
[00:17:41.919] going to do it." Instead of just
[00:17:43.600] allowing it to happen, you get in your
[00:17:45.679] own way. And he's like, "Alexa is a
[00:17:48.080] fairly dumb, for lack of better word,
[00:17:50.880] AI." So Alexa doesn't get in its own
[00:17:53.280] way. Yeah. It's called the rebound
[00:17:55.200] effect. And it occurs in random event
[00:17:56.880] generators as well, where you start to
[00:17:58.559] get more ones. You're getting ones.
[00:18:00.480] you're getting ones because you showed
[00:18:01.679] up and you want more ones on this result
[00:18:03.760] and then you're like you get you're like
[00:18:05.360] I'm really good at this. I'm amazing
[00:18:07.312] [laughter] and then you get this like
[00:18:08.960] this kind of clapback. And this happens
[00:18:11.200] in life too. Like if you're in a flow
[00:18:13.600] state and you're like playing basketball
[00:18:15.039] and you're hitting threes and you're
[00:18:16.400] doing really well or I'm sure comedy
[00:18:18.160] it's the same thing. You're starting to
[00:18:19.440] get ahead of your too big for your
[00:18:21.039] britches out of your skis and like
[00:18:22.720] >> your skis [laughter] you know.
[00:18:23.840] >> Yeah. And think about what you're doing
[00:18:25.520] and that's a problem.
[00:18:26.640] >> Mhm.
[00:18:27.280] >> You lose the flow.
[00:18:28.240] >> You lose the flow.
[00:18:29.360] >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Thinking about what
[00:18:32.000] it's so odd, which is one of the reasons
[00:18:33.919] why like like particular for like
[00:18:36.480] athletic events and training, you're
[00:18:39.520] training for a thing so that your body
[00:18:42.880] knows exactly what to do. So, you don't
[00:18:45.200] have to think about what to do when
[00:18:46.720] you're doing it. You just do it. You
[00:18:48.640] know what to do. You enter into that
[00:18:50.480] flow state and you rely on the training.
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[00:20:11.520] >> Totally.
[00:20:12.240] >> Yeah. And and I guess it makes sense in
[00:20:14.480] that context that you could technically
[00:20:16.880] train a robot like Alexa to do much
[00:20:19.679] better because they they don't have that
[00:20:21.200] sort of prefrontal cortex neurosis ego,
[00:20:25.039] >> right? I wonder if you could train ego
[00:20:27.200] into an LLM.
[00:20:29.120] >> Wow. [laughter]
[00:20:30.720] >> It seems like you can because you can
[00:20:32.559] you could train survival instincts and
[00:20:36.080] there's a lot of things like like when
[00:20:38.559] they're threatened about being shut off
[00:20:40.240] and they blackmail people. That's
[00:20:42.000] insane. It's really insane. And then you
[00:20:44.159] have to ask is there some sort of
[00:20:45.440] underlying emotion going on there? Like
[00:20:47.280] if you were like or is it just like uh
[00:20:49.840] probability matrices and attention heads
[00:20:52.080] and these sort of technical things and
[00:20:53.679] it's as if consciousness? It's like sort
[00:20:55.760] of feeding the data through
[00:20:56.880] >> and then it gets to a certain point
[00:20:58.000] where as that becomes more and more
[00:20:59.679] complex, how do we differentiate?
[00:21:02.880] >> That's that's the problem. And I mean
[00:21:05.200] David Schalmer's has a great, you know,
[00:21:06.640] he's this sort of consciousness theorist
[00:21:08.159] where it's like, Joe, how can you prove
[00:21:10.640] that I'm not a a pea zombie, that I am
[00:21:12.960] not some like AI construct? There's
[00:21:15.440] ultimately no way to prove that. There's
[00:21:16.799] this epistemological impass between you
[00:21:19.120] and I.
[00:21:19.919] >> Yeah, we don't know. No. And then, you
[00:21:23.919] know, the real problem with this whole
[00:21:26.000] UFO thing is like, well, what are they?
[00:21:30.480] Are they just a possibility?
[00:21:33.840] Are they a thing that exists and also
[00:21:36.480] doesn't exist like quantum particles
[00:21:39.679] that are in a superp position? I mean,
[00:21:41.760] are they here all the time? Are they
[00:21:44.320] only here when you summon them, which is
[00:21:46.400] one of the weirder ones?
[00:21:47.520] >> Oh, yeah.
[00:21:48.080] >> Cuz I have a friend, she's totally
[00:21:50.000] convinced she can summon orbs. She wants
[00:21:52.240] me to go try it with her. I'm like,
[00:21:54.559] >> I have a few friends like that, too. And
[00:21:56.559] there's zero mental health issues with
[00:21:59.600] them. They're totally cool.
[00:22:01.360] >> Super lucid, very smart. Yeah.
[00:22:04.240] >> No, that's a that's a a common thing.
[00:22:06.240] It's a strangely common thing for people
[00:22:08.559] to say that they are able to call in via
[00:22:11.360] consciousness these UFOs. And I do think
[00:22:13.679] they are sort of weakly entangled with.
[00:22:16.720] So if reality per Tom Campbell is a
[00:22:19.360] consensus collapsing function, it's like
[00:22:22.000] we sort of have this like shared
[00:22:23.600] collective reality that we kind of agree
[00:22:25.360] on and these things are sort of you know
[00:22:28.080] um consensus thought forms. Then maybe a
[00:22:31.760] UFO is an example of something like
[00:22:33.440] that. Maybe it's an alternative timeline
[00:22:35.520] that we're slowly bringing in to the
[00:22:38.480] like mainstream timeline or some
[00:22:40.240] something like that. I mean, I think our
[00:22:42.159] language is always very poor as far as
[00:22:44.000] like our ability to [laughter]
[00:22:45.360] >> Well, our language is very poor in terms
[00:22:47.520] of states of consciousness as well,
[00:22:49.600] right?
[00:22:50.480] >> So, altered states of consciousness like
[00:22:52.880] psychedelically altered states of
[00:22:54.400] consciousness. Okay. Why? What is
[00:22:56.400] happening when you're experiencing
[00:22:58.320] entities and other beings and things and
[00:23:01.520] objects and visuals and like
[00:23:04.480] what is a hallucination?
[00:23:06.720] And what is you actually tuning into
[00:23:09.280] something that exists on on a frequency
[00:23:11.600] that you don't have access to during the
[00:23:13.840] normal state that you are when you go to
[00:23:16.400] the grocery store, say hi to your
[00:23:18.400] family, normal stuff. like there's got,
[00:23:21.760] you know, there there's some weirdness
[00:23:23.440] to like whatever consciousness itself is
[00:23:26.559] that exists in weird forms and weird
[00:23:29.039] states.
[00:23:29.840] >> A lot of people say these experiences
[00:23:31.600] are realer than real too, right?
[00:23:33.760] >> You know, they say they're realer than
[00:23:35.360] reality. They're like, and they come
[00:23:37.120] back and they're like, I know there's
[00:23:38.559] something more. I know it, you know, and
[00:23:40.559] it's not um and they see common
[00:23:42.799] archetypes like they'll see the machine
[00:23:45.039] elves or the mantids or the grays or
[00:23:47.520] like it's not like the this sort of
[00:23:49.679] everything is everything, you know,
[00:23:51.440] complete uh sort of Cambrian explosion
[00:23:54.000] of of a zoo of things. It's often the
[00:23:56.960] same things and then you have to ask
[00:23:58.880] yourself, is it this sort of, you know,
[00:24:00.640] Aldis Huxley sort of doors of your
[00:24:02.400] perception? you're widening them to
[00:24:04.159] literally a wider reality or like you
[00:24:06.559] just said, maybe you're superimposing
[00:24:08.640] something on to reality and maybe you're
[00:24:10.159] crazy. But again, I think the sort of
[00:24:12.720] rationalist, you know, explain
[00:24:14.799] everything away bias that society has
[00:24:17.760] had is the the the latter. It's like
[00:24:20.320] you're super you're hallucinating.
[00:24:22.400] You're you're superimposing this thing
[00:24:23.760] on reality. Take medication.
[00:24:25.360] >> It's very rare that people who have had
[00:24:26.880] those experiences have that thought.
[00:24:29.200] >> Totally. And it could be like your again
[00:24:31.679] going back to transmission theory of
[00:24:33.200] consciousness, your receiver just a
[00:24:34.960] little off and it's not integrating
[00:24:36.720] perfectly or you know.
[00:24:38.240] >> Well then and then again we're talking
[00:24:39.919] about like the water being muddied.
[00:24:41.520] There's there's a bunch of people that
[00:24:43.120] are self-professed skeptics and those
[00:24:46.480] people are maddening to talk to cuz they
[00:24:48.559] have zero experience. It's like a virgin
[00:24:50.480] telling you how to have sex. It's like
[00:24:53.200] settle down. Like you literally don't
[00:24:55.440] know what you're talking about. Like you
[00:24:56.960] don't know what you're talking about.
[00:24:59.200] you have not experienced it. And like,
[00:25:01.120] well, we don't think it's necessary to
[00:25:02.559] experience it to understand how the
[00:25:03.760] human brain works. Well, of
[00:25:05.120] course it is. [laughter]
[00:25:06.240] >> Of course it is. That's such a stupid
[00:25:08.080] thing to say. When you have these
[00:25:09.520] brilliant people, you know, like uh
[00:25:11.679] Michael Pollen who have these profound
[00:25:13.360] experiences and write about them like
[00:25:15.279] very eloquently. You can't just dismiss
[00:25:17.679] that as a non-experiencer. You just
[00:25:20.080] can't. And to say it's like, oh, it's
[00:25:22.240] just hallucination. What does that mean?
[00:25:24.159] What does that even mean? Okay. Like I
[00:25:26.240] always say this, if you have a
[00:25:29.039] psychedelic experience, you eat 10 grams
[00:25:31.440] of mushrooms and you have a conversation
[00:25:33.360] with God and God explains to you what
[00:25:36.480] you've done wrong in your life and why
[00:25:38.240] you're doing it wrong and what you can
[00:25:40.159] do to spread love and that's what's
[00:25:41.760] really important and you come back
[00:25:43.600] profoundly changed from this experience.
[00:25:46.960] How is that any different than actually
[00:25:48.880] meeting God? Like just be, you know what
[00:25:52.559] I'm saying? Just because you don't have
[00:25:53.760] iPhone footage of it, it does
[00:25:56.400] not mean that this isn't the exact same
[00:25:59.200] experience as meeting God. And maybe it
[00:26:01.440] is meeting God.
[00:26:02.320] >> It was to the person.
[00:26:03.520] >> It it there's a weirdness to what we
[00:26:06.559] call quantifiable reality. There's a
[00:26:08.960] weirdness to what we are as these like
[00:26:11.600] very complex but yet also pretty
[00:26:14.080] simplistic monkeys. We want to be able
[00:26:16.080] to put something on a scale or put a
[00:26:18.159] ruler to it and go, "Oh, well, this is
[00:26:19.919] 12 in long and I know what it is. Maybe
[00:26:22.880] not.
[00:26:23.520] >> And why do people with near-death
[00:26:25.760] experiences or prophets, they seem to
[00:26:28.559] after the fact, they're they're not able
[00:26:30.960] to encapsulate the experience, right?
[00:26:32.960] >> It's like actually I interviewed uh
[00:26:35.440] David Gush and he was talking about this
[00:26:36.960] guy Eban Alexander. Um and I think it's
[00:26:40.080] called uh uh proof of what is it called?
[00:26:43.760] Life after he or life in heaven or
[00:26:45.520] something. It's amazing. It's a it's
[00:26:47.039] this a Harvard neuroscientist who had a
[00:26:49.600] near-death experience and um he he he
[00:26:53.440] was saying like it's like the symbol
[00:26:55.120] rate of reality is too slow. It's like
[00:26:57.120] literally like the language itself can't
[00:26:59.919] encapsulate, you know, what that I think
[00:27:02.240] William James also had a psychedelic
[00:27:04.000] experience and he was trying to describe
[00:27:06.400] and he was he had a notepad and he was
[00:27:08.159] writing down what what he had
[00:27:09.600] experienced with his, you know, while
[00:27:12.159] tripping and it was just like total
[00:27:14.720] psycho babble, you know, it was just
[00:27:17.600] impossible to understand. And so I I do
[00:27:20.400] think there's this like sort of weird,
[00:27:22.880] you know, I don't know, inability to
[00:27:24.880] sort of understand these transcendent
[00:27:26.640] experiences.
[00:27:27.679] >> Yeah. Inability to bring anything back.
[00:27:29.600] And that's one of the things that
[00:27:30.559] people, well, if it's real, if you
[00:27:32.320] really are getting knowledge, why don't
[00:27:33.840] you bring something back? Like,
[00:27:35.859] [laughter] okay, you don't know what
[00:27:37.600] you're saying because you haven't done
[00:27:39.840] it. And if you've done it, you would
[00:27:41.600] realize like, oh, this is a mad
[00:27:43.360] consciousness scramble. It's almost
[00:27:45.600] impossible to relay to another person
[00:27:47.679] because we don't have the words. We
[00:27:50.559] don't have the words to describe these
[00:27:52.240] complex geometric patterns that are
[00:27:53.919] constantly morphing and changing. Also,
[00:27:56.320] they're conscious. Also, they seem to be
[00:27:58.399] made out of light, [laughter]
[00:28:00.000] >> right?
[00:28:00.480] >> Also, they seem to be they look like
[00:28:03.279] things that you might have seen in like
[00:28:05.279] ancient Egyptian artwork. And there's a
[00:28:07.520] lot of like strange parallels to ancient
[00:28:10.960] religious art and ancient like sacred
[00:28:13.679] art and sacred geometry. There's some
[00:28:15.919] weirdness to it. It's like these people
[00:28:17.360] c like Alex Gray for instance, like a
[00:28:19.520] modern day version of that. He's like
[00:28:21.440] captured these things and you look at it
[00:28:23.360] and anybody that's taken any trips, you
[00:28:26.080] look at his stuff and you go, "Oh, I've
[00:28:28.320] seen that. I've seen something like
[00:28:30.159] that. There's there's something there.
[00:28:32.559] He knows what this is and he's done a
[00:28:35.360] fantastic job of relaying it. And if he
[00:28:38.240] lived thousands of years ago and we
[00:28:40.799] looked at his art and he he'd probably
[00:28:42.640] be thought of as like some sort of a
[00:28:44.399] prophet who like had these very bizarre
[00:28:47.679] abilities to communicate with whatever
[00:28:49.520] it is, the afterlife, the the the great
[00:28:52.159] beyond, the other dimensions, whatever
[00:28:54.159] it is. He he can encapsulate it and
[00:28:56.720] bring some of it back so you can get a
[00:28:58.240] look at it.
[00:28:58.799] >> Totally. Yeah. He's actually a
[00:29:00.080] counterpoint to what we just said. like
[00:29:01.520] he actually does bring that back and you
[00:29:03.120] look at his art and you're like, "Oh my
[00:29:04.559] god."
[00:29:04.960] >> And it's very rare if you think about
[00:29:06.399] it. Like think about how long people
[00:29:07.919] have been tripping and how this one guy
[00:29:10.480] is sort of universally known as being
[00:29:12.399] the absolute best at capturing it. It's
[00:29:14.880] wild and it's I feel like we're on the
[00:29:16.799] precipice of Yeah, I know you had Andrew
[00:29:18.640] Gallammore on who, you know, wrote a
[00:29:20.640] great book called Alien Information
[00:29:22.240] Theory and he, you know, just as uh, you
[00:29:26.399] know, astronauts go into deep space and
[00:29:29.120] aquinauts go into the deep sea, it's,
[00:29:31.520] you know, psychonauts are systematically
[00:29:34.399] going into the DMT realm with this slow
[00:29:36.960] intravenous DMT DMT trip that he's
[00:29:40.240] administering. Yes. and they're mapping
[00:29:43.039] what they see in a more systematic way
[00:29:45.840] because they say things like, "Oh, I'll
[00:29:47.840] see literally plonic objects." A
[00:29:49.679] platonic object is something that is
[00:29:51.600] beyond 3D. It's like a tesseract. You
[00:29:53.760] literally can't visualize a tesseract.
[00:29:55.360] You can just see this the shadow of a a
[00:29:57.200] tesseract because it's it's, you know,
[00:29:59.360] too high dimensional, you know, for us
[00:30:01.840] to conceive of. And so they'll come back
[00:30:04.640] and they're like mapping these things
[00:30:06.320] out. And that's just I'm so excited to
[00:30:08.559] see
[00:30:08.960] >> also mapping out very familiar entities
[00:30:11.919] where they have like a specific number
[00:30:14.000] of entities that everyone has
[00:30:15.760] encountered.
[00:30:16.640] >> That's just Yeah, it's fascinating. And
[00:30:18.799] it's like, yeah, at what point do we
[00:30:20.720] then just start to say, is that some
[00:30:23.200] weird interior fabric of spaceime that
[00:30:25.840] we're just haven't traversed or don't
[00:30:28.399] fully understand?
[00:30:29.600] >> Right. What is it?
[00:30:31.200] >> What the is it? It's um it's really
[00:30:34.320] interesting because these people what
[00:30:36.880] what fascinates me the most in terms of
[00:30:39.120] like the UFC UFC UFO experience, the UAP
[00:30:43.440] experience is the people that had the
[00:30:46.320] experiences before there was an
[00:30:48.880] archetype, you know, before there was
[00:30:51.039] this like iconic vision of like what
[00:30:53.440] they looked like like Betty and Barney
[00:30:55.120] Hill for example. Those are that's my
[00:30:58.159] favorite UFO abduction story because
[00:31:00.799] there was nothing in the zeitgeist that
[00:31:04.320] they could draw from where they could
[00:31:06.080] say, "Oh, I know what that is. I've seen
[00:31:07.679] that before." Well, Outer Limits was
[00:31:10.240] actually a popular CBS TV show that
[00:31:12.880] aired premiered 11 days before their
[00:31:15.600] experience. I I'm not taking away from
[00:31:16.960] their experience. I think they
[00:31:18.000] experienced something real. But
[00:31:20.480] >> which episode was it? It was It was the
[00:31:22.480] first episode of Outer Limits and the
[00:31:24.480] aliens in Outer Limits, the eyes wrap
[00:31:26.720] around their heads in a way that's
[00:31:28.559] similar to what they described.
[00:31:30.320] >> Oh, let's see what that looks like. Find
[00:31:31.919] out episode one of Outer Limits. That's
[00:31:33.760] interesting. I did not know that. So,
[00:31:35.360] what year was that?
[00:31:36.880] >> That was uh I think 1962.
[00:31:39.360] >> Whoa, how creepy looking. Ew.
[00:31:43.120] >> But it's So, Betty and Barney Hill also
[00:31:45.440] described the aliens looking like Nazis
[00:31:48.000] at one point.
[00:31:49.120] >> Whoa. Barney says that which is really
[00:31:51.200] trippy. So
[00:31:52.159] >> he said they look like Nazis
[00:31:53.519] >> at one point. Yeah,
[00:31:55.200] >> cuz you can actually get the audio of
[00:31:56.880] the Betty and Barney Hill.
[00:31:58.080] >> Yeah, we've listened to part of it, but
[00:31:59.679] it's mostly just them like yelling.
[00:32:02.000] >> Look, that's the image. Look at the
[00:32:03.519] image. Is that the image of what they
[00:32:05.360] saw? Is that a drawing?
[00:32:08.399] Cuz god, that looks exactly like the
[00:32:10.000] Outer Limits. They might have got mind
[00:32:12.000] by TV. [laughter] But then again,
[00:32:14.399] it's like maybe whatever the it is
[00:32:17.200] manifests itself as something that's
[00:32:19.120] familiar to you.
[00:32:20.480] >> Yeah. Or maybe it has control like
[00:32:22.480] dominion over sort of everything and
[00:32:24.880] they're seeding themselves in through
[00:32:26.480] media and you know I it's so hard to
[00:32:29.039] sculpture of the being Betty and Barney
[00:32:30.960] Hill encounter. My god, that looks a lot
[00:32:32.799] like the outer limits thing.
[00:32:35.120] >> There you go.
[00:32:36.640] >> Well, it's like it's that's the
[00:32:38.159] question. It's like what is that? Her
[00:32:41.360] holding it. Did she make it herself?
[00:32:43.919] Interesting.
[00:32:47.279] Boy,
[00:32:48.880] that looks a lot like the outer limits
[00:32:50.559] thing. The the question is like if if
[00:32:54.399] consciousness is rendering
[00:32:57.600] something and something from somewhere
[00:33:01.360] else, something that you normally can't
[00:33:03.760] access is
[00:33:06.640] exchanging information with you in some
[00:33:08.799] sort of a strange way. and it's doing it
[00:33:10.640] while you're in a semic-conscious state,
[00:33:12.240] right? Would it try to represent itself
[00:33:16.240] as something that's familiar?
[00:33:18.720] >> I mean, maybe it's just like our
[00:33:22.159] primitive
[00:33:24.080] visual ability, our our primitive all of
[00:33:27.440] our senses, which are very crude and
[00:33:30.559] primatriven.
[00:33:32.399] They're basically like your eyes are in
[00:33:34.640] the front of your head because you're a
[00:33:35.519] predator and you you're you're basically
[00:33:37.600] like a tribal territorial ape that has,
[00:33:41.600] you know, really kind of
[00:33:44.240] it's grown out of its its genetics. You
[00:33:47.519] like you're in some new state. So you're
[00:33:49.600] communicating with something that is a
[00:33:52.480] beyond your comprehension. And so it's
[00:33:55.279] like instead of showing myself as a
[00:33:57.120] tesseract, instead of showing, you know
[00:33:59.120] what I mean? Like instead of showing
[00:34:00.799] myself as geometric patterns that are
[00:34:02.880] constantly morphing and made out of
[00:34:04.080] light, I don't think this monkeyy's
[00:34:05.600] going to be able to handle this. These
[00:34:07.360] silly humans, I'm going to have to like
[00:34:09.520] show myself as something that was a
[00:34:11.200] television character. And that's why
[00:34:13.359] when Bettyy's drawing that, maybe she
[00:34:15.679] doesn't even realize that like it looks
[00:34:19.200] a lot like what she saw on TV.
[00:34:21.520] >> Totally. And
[00:34:23.440] >> I think Oh,
[00:34:24.560] >> clarify something maybe. I just feel
[00:34:26.240] like I misunderstood it. Uh, their event
[00:34:30.079] happened in 1961.
[00:34:32.399] That episode aired in 1964, but it was
[00:34:35.919] 12 days before they had their hypnotic
[00:34:39.200] regression.
[00:34:39.679] >> Regression. Got it. Interesting. So,
[00:34:42.000] their hypnotic regression was that long
[00:34:44.000] afterwards.
[00:34:44.560] >> Yes. Three years to two and a half.
[00:34:47.040] >> Huh. That's interesting. So, when did
[00:34:50.000] they start describing an experience? Was
[00:34:53.119] it pre-hypnot like what what prompted
[00:34:55.679] them to have a hypnotic regression?
[00:34:57.599] >> I believe she had like she came home and
[00:34:59.520] she had like I think some blood on her
[00:35:02.560] and she was like something they had a
[00:35:04.079] lot of missing time. They had like 5
[00:35:05.359] hours of missing time. They were on a
[00:35:06.480] road trip and it was back to their place
[00:35:08.400] I think in Vermont.
[00:35:12.000] >> That's very that changes things a little
[00:35:14.079] bit. But also there's the problem there
[00:35:16.560] is that human memory sucks.
[00:35:19.760] >> It does.
[00:35:20.400] >> Memory sucks. And if you're you have a
[00:35:22.240] memory of a very traumatic experiences
[00:35:24.320] three years ago and then also you just
[00:35:26.000] watched outer limits then things get
[00:35:28.240] squirrely cuz like if you're
[00:35:30.880] communicating with something and it's
[00:35:33.119] literally telepathically engaging with
[00:35:35.200] you and it can read your mind and it's
[00:35:37.119] telling you to calm down. It's got you
[00:35:38.560] on a spaceship. Like how much of that do
[00:35:41.839] you especially whatever happened to you?
[00:35:44.960] it somehow or another rendered your
[00:35:47.680] memory
[00:35:49.359] out like you can't really remember it.
[00:35:52.400] So you're hypnotically
[00:35:55.280] accessing this memory
[00:35:57.280] >> and then you also have this like recent
[00:35:59.280] experience of watching a television
[00:36:00.720] show.
[00:36:01.280] >> Totally. But yeah, you're you're
[00:36:03.280] paralyzed. There's often missing time
[00:36:05.359] and so at that point you have to say
[00:36:07.119] these beings have total control over
[00:36:09.520] your entire reality. And so it's hard to
[00:36:11.520] say exactly what happened. According to
[00:36:13.599] the wiki I got that this happened in
[00:36:16.000] November of ' 61 for 10 days or 10 days
[00:36:19.760] after she started having dreams or one
[00:36:22.320] of the two 10 days after the alleged
[00:36:24.000] encounter she began having dreams and
[00:36:26.800] then a year later
[00:36:29.359] at church they ran into a captain of the
[00:36:31.839] air force and then some hypnosis
[00:36:34.400] discussions started but then two years
[00:36:37.200] later church
[00:36:38.079] >> is when those sessions happened. So
[00:36:40.960] there's not a lot of the timeline, at
[00:36:42.240] least according to the wiki, is not
[00:36:43.599] really kept well here,
[00:36:45.359] >> right?
[00:36:46.000] >> So it's that's a long period of time.
[00:36:47.839] >> Listen to this. Barney described the
[00:36:49.680] beings as generally similar to Betty's
[00:36:52.000] hypnotic recollection. He said the being
[00:36:54.400] stared into his eyes with a terrifying,
[00:36:56.240] mesmerizing effect. Under hypnosis,
[00:36:58.160] Barney said, "Oh, those eyes, they're in
[00:37:01.119] my brain. They're there in my brain."
[00:37:03.760] from his first hypnotic session. I was
[00:37:05.839] told to close my eyes because I saw two
[00:37:08.000] eyes coming close to mine and I felt
[00:37:10.560] like the eyes had pushed into my eyes.
[00:37:14.480] All I see are these eyes. I'm not even
[00:37:18.400] afraid that they're not connected to a
[00:37:20.720] body. They're just there. They're just
[00:37:23.359] up close to me pressing against my eyes.
[00:37:29.680] Uh when Betty reported a conversation
[00:37:31.359] with the leader in English, Barney said
[00:37:33.359] that he had heard them speaking in a
[00:37:35.280] mumbling language he did not understand.
[00:37:37.680] Betty also mentioned this detail. The
[00:37:40.240] few times they communicated with him.
[00:37:41.920] Barney said it seemed to be thought
[00:37:43.839] transference at the time. He was
[00:37:46.000] unfamiliar with the word telepathy.
[00:37:48.480] That's interesting. Like he didn't know
[00:37:50.720] what the word telepathy was. And the the
[00:37:52.960] concept of speaking through the mind
[00:37:55.359] wasn't even it wasn't even in pop
[00:37:57.440] culture yet to
[00:37:59.119] >> totally. And it's it's it's hard to
[00:38:00.960] debunk that something paranormal
[00:38:04.400] happened, you know, like it's these they
[00:38:07.760] seem like completely of sound mind and
[00:38:10.079] there's this missing time and then you
[00:38:11.680] have all these high up head honchos, you
[00:38:13.680] know, at Air Force. I believe um this
[00:38:16.400] guy Charles Douglas Jackson who was this
[00:38:18.079] head head honcho um as well and kind of
[00:38:20.800] the Pentagon came and visited them. So
[00:38:23.280] it's I I think it's clear that something
[00:38:25.040] happened and then what happened? It's
[00:38:26.560] just hard to say. It's it's really hard
[00:38:28.720] to say
[00:38:29.200] >> like who [sighs]
[00:38:31.119] why is the Air Force talking to them?
[00:38:33.920] That's that's the real question,
[00:38:35.680] >> right? Well, because I think they had an
[00:38:37.760] interest. you know, Project Blue Book
[00:38:39.440] was running at the time, and it's clear
[00:38:41.440] now if you do deeper research that they
[00:38:44.480] knew more than they let on. Jaylen
[00:38:46.480] Heinik, you know, later kind of
[00:38:48.079] apologized and admitted he played a part
[00:38:50.160] in the cover up. And so, they were
[00:38:52.079] probably doing real research with
[00:38:53.680] abductees while they were kind of
[00:38:55.680] downplaying, you know, and rationalizing
[00:38:57.599] everything to the public.
[00:38:58.880] >> So, Jamie just pulled something up. Um,
[00:39:01.040] it says on November 23rd, 1962, the
[00:39:04.000] Hills attended a meeting at the
[00:39:06.320] parsonage of their church where Captain
[00:39:09.040] Ben H. Sweat of the United States Air
[00:39:11.280] Force was a guest speaker. Uh, having
[00:39:14.079] had an interest in hypnosis, the Hills
[00:39:16.160] approached Sweat privately and related
[00:39:19.280] their strange encounter. Sweat was
[00:39:21.040] particularly interested in the missing
[00:39:22.800] time of the Hills accounts. The Hills
[00:39:26.000] asked if he would hypnotize them to
[00:39:28.000] recover their memories, but Sweat
[00:39:29.760] declined and cautioned them against
[00:39:31.920] going to an amateur hypnotist such as
[00:39:34.240] himself.
[00:39:34.640] >> I wonder what the meeting was about that
[00:39:36.400] they were that he was like, you know,
[00:39:37.920] talking at,
[00:39:38.560] >> right,
[00:39:38.880] >> that they just went to like
[00:39:40.400] >> a meeting, right,
[00:39:41.599] >> by hypnosis, maybe like just in general.
[00:39:44.240] >> Yeah, but he's an he's like a
[00:39:45.760] self-proclaimed amateur hypnotist. Why
[00:39:47.839] would an amateur hypnotist have a
[00:39:49.440] meeting at a church about hypnotism?
[00:39:52.960] And I I especially like in 1962, I'd
[00:39:55.839] imagine a lot of people running churches
[00:39:58.320] were super skeptical about even that
[00:40:00.320] concept. And they might even thought it
[00:40:01.839] was like blasphemy or sorcery or some
[00:40:05.520] something you're not supposed to devil.
[00:40:07.040] >> Yeah. Something you're not supposed to
[00:40:08.079] be with.
[00:40:09.359] >> What did this guy do?
[00:40:10.560] >> It's coming from his website.
[00:40:12.720] >> He's got a website.
[00:40:13.839] >> A testimony from him.
[00:40:17.119] I read some of my poetry to a meeting at
[00:40:19.520] the rectory of the Unitarian Church in
[00:40:21.680] Portsouth, New Hampshire. I wasn't a
[00:40:23.359] member of the church. Didn't know anyone
[00:40:24.640] there.
[00:40:25.599] >> Why does he have a donation link on his
[00:40:27.280] website?
[00:40:27.599] >> Uh, this is for the Way Back Machine.
[00:40:29.680] >> Oh, I see. Okay.
[00:40:31.920] >> He was studying hypnosis and they wanted
[00:40:34.079] to hear about it.
[00:40:35.200] >> Does seem a little awfully convenient.
[00:40:37.440] >> Kind of odd that someone [laughter] was
[00:40:38.800] studying hypnosis.
[00:40:40.320] >> They had him in to read his poetry. He
[00:40:42.000] had nothing to do with the church at
[00:40:44.160] all. The the craziest thing about this
[00:40:47.119] story is Betty told this famous UFO
[00:40:50.880] researcher from Sweden, this guy
[00:40:52.079] Clausvon, who actually has the largest
[00:40:54.320] UFO archive in the world in in Sweden.
[00:40:57.599] She said that she saw a UFO crash later
[00:41:01.040] and she buried a little piece of it in
[00:41:03.440] her house at in Portsouth, New
[00:41:05.680] Hampshire. And so there might be a
[00:41:08.240] little piece of a UFO in her old house.
[00:41:10.880] And if if you live there, go dig in your
[00:41:14.000] backyard and see.
[00:41:15.680] >> Well, it's probably not there until you
[00:41:17.119] experience it.
[00:41:18.480] >> Yeah, maybe. I don't know.
[00:41:19.599] >> Your consciousness renders.
[00:41:21.040] >> That's right.
[00:41:21.760] >> This is kind of strange. Uh this those
[00:41:25.359] lines right there
[00:41:27.200] >> cuz this is the timeline here is weird
[00:41:28.800] cuz he did this in ' 62 and then he's
[00:41:30.319] saying he also came back in ' 63 and
[00:41:32.400] that's when the UFO stuff started. said
[00:41:34.480] they started telling me about something
[00:41:35.680] that happened to them that they when as
[00:41:38.000] they were driving home from Canada the
[00:41:41.200] night of 19 to 20 September 1961 a light
[00:41:44.480] in the sky seemed to follow them and
[00:41:47.280] then circled them and being stopped on
[00:41:51.280] the road and how they later realized
[00:41:54.480] that they had a threehour gap in their
[00:41:57.200] memories as they told their story.
[00:41:59.599] Barney's face kept twitching
[00:42:01.440] spasmotically
[00:42:03.359] on one side.
[00:42:06.160] >> I [snorts] didn't like the looks of
[00:42:07.760] that.
[00:42:08.240] >> What?
[00:42:09.680] >> Whoa.
[00:42:11.280] >> The missing time is also a weird one
[00:42:13.280] because that's uh that also hadn't been
[00:42:16.720] something that was in the zeitgeist. Was
[00:42:18.560] that in the outer limits? Probably not.
[00:42:20.400] No.
[00:42:20.720] >> But yet that has become a part of the
[00:42:23.040] experience that all these abductees
[00:42:25.200] discuss.
[00:42:25.920] >> Absolutely. They discuss like all of a
[00:42:27.359] sudden they're back in their car and
[00:42:28.560] they're sitting on the side of the road
[00:42:29.520] and they're like, "Okay, what the
[00:42:31.040] just happened?"
[00:42:32.160] >> I was just telling Jamie before we were
[00:42:34.000] rolling. So, um, 1977 Ellsworth Air
[00:42:37.839] Force Base in South Dakota, there are
[00:42:40.400] two missile security officers, uh, two
[00:42:43.040] sergeants, uh, a guy named Mario Woods
[00:42:45.760] and, um, Michael Johnson. And Mario sees
[00:42:49.839] this UFO sort of, you know, circling the
[00:42:52.720] base. and he flashes the little, you
[00:42:55.839] know, perimeter flood lights at this UFO
[00:42:58.079] and he thinks nothing of it. He goes
[00:42:59.760] back, you know, he and Michael are
[00:43:01.200] hanging out. I think four or five hours
[00:43:03.280] go by and there's a big alert and it's
[00:43:05.839] an inner zone and outer zone alert. So,
[00:43:08.880] basically the security perimeter to a
[00:43:11.760] hydro hydrogen bomb, a live
[00:43:13.440] thermonuclear weapon has been breached
[00:43:15.680] and [laughter] Yeah. and they get in
[00:43:18.720] their car and they go check it out
[00:43:21.119] because they it's always, you know,
[00:43:22.400] twoman rapid response teams. They go
[00:43:24.960] check it out. There is a what he
[00:43:27.119] describes as a blazing red orb the size
[00:43:30.560] of a Walmart. So, a massive like a
[00:43:33.359] that's the way he describes it. It's a
[00:43:34.880] huge like storefront sized like city
[00:43:37.599] block sized uh
[00:43:40.960] UFO. And then he says a little like like
[00:43:44.480] a black kind of like almost like a drone
[00:43:47.359] or emissary orb that's like the size of
[00:43:49.119] a golf cart comes out. Four beings hover
[00:43:52.240] towards them. They black out. They black
[00:43:55.839] in 5 and a half hours later 8 miles away
[00:44:00.720] in Newell or sorry next to a dam. I
[00:44:03.119] think it's it's closer to Newell. Um,
[00:44:05.599] and uh, it's 8 miles off the base and
[00:44:08.720] uh, they immediately get questioned by
[00:44:10.560] Air Force Office of Special
[00:44:11.680] Investigations and the Air Force Office
[00:44:14.079] of Special Investigations agent who is
[00:44:16.079] involved admits he was there for this
[00:44:18.319] debrief and admits that this happened.
[00:44:20.560] His name is Rick Dodie and I just so
[00:44:24.000] they were separated after that, Michael
[00:44:25.680] and Mario. I just introduced them for
[00:44:28.720] the reintroduced them for the first
[00:44:30.319] time. I found Michael. So Mario had been
[00:44:32.960] going on all these podcasts since the
[00:44:35.119] '9s being like, "Where's Mike?" Like, he
[00:44:37.280] has idetic picture perfect photographic
[00:44:39.839] memory. You'd love him. He's like the
[00:44:41.359] coolest guy. And he remembers everything
[00:44:43.520] to a tea that happened to him, including
[00:44:45.440] his debrief. He remembers the names of
[00:44:47.440] the people there. It's so obvious
[00:44:49.920] something happened to him. And
[00:44:51.440] >> did he always have that memory, that
[00:44:53.280] ability?
[00:44:54.160] >> He always had that ability. He's clearly
[00:44:56.000] just very talented when it comes to
[00:44:58.400] memory. and and he'd been looking for
[00:45:00.720] for Michael forever. He asked the FBI to
[00:45:03.440] find him. He asked uh uh the All Domain
[00:45:06.160] Anomalies Resolution Office, which is
[00:45:07.680] the official Pentagon office, you know,
[00:45:09.359] around UFOs to find him. He hired, you
[00:45:11.920] know, private investigators. And this
[00:45:14.160] dude uh DM'd me on Instagram, shout out
[00:45:17.200] fan of the show, Jason Miller.
[00:45:18.936] [laughter] Um and uh and then we just
[00:45:20.800] got a recruiter to find Michael Johnson
[00:45:23.119] because that was the one missing piece
[00:45:24.400] of the story. and they they reconnected
[00:45:27.359] and it was like the most emotional why
[00:45:30.079] cuz they hadn't seen each other. They
[00:45:31.680] saw each other once I think two weeks
[00:45:34.000] after the abduction to like trade notes
[00:45:36.079] and draw pictures of what happened to
[00:45:37.680] them like the beings on the ship and you
[00:45:40.000] know I I think um Yeah, there you go.
[00:45:42.640] Yeah, this is
[00:45:44.400] >> all this time you never forgot me. You
[00:45:45.760] never
[00:45:46.160] >> Which guy is which?
[00:45:47.119] >> So Michael Johnson is the black dude on
[00:45:49.200] the left. Mario Woods on the right.
[00:45:51.280] >> And Wish is the guy with the crazy
[00:45:52.720] memory.
[00:45:53.280] >> Mario's on the right. That's Mario. They
[00:45:54.880] look the same, man.
[00:45:56.000] >> Michael honestly has a great memory,
[00:45:57.280] too.
[00:45:57.520] >> So, these two guys, do they have a
[00:45:59.520] similar story or is it exact?
[00:46:02.400] >> Do they have variation?
[00:46:03.920] >> They have a very similar story. Not, you
[00:46:07.599] know, perfectly one to one, but they're
[00:46:09.200] very honest about like, you know, the
[00:46:11.440] minor [laughter]
[00:46:12.960] uh
[00:46:14.960] >> Yeah, he's crying like
[00:46:16.319] >> Yeah. doesn't come out tomorrow, but
[00:46:18.542] [laughter]
[00:46:19.920] I thought I'd send it to Jamie.
[00:46:21.839] >> Wow.
[00:46:22.319] >> Isn't that crazy?
[00:46:23.359] >> Wow. When does that episode come out?
[00:46:25.040] >> Uh, this week. So, in a few days. Yeah.
[00:46:27.280] >> Oh, what a teaser.
[00:46:28.240] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]
[00:46:29.599] Nice.
[00:46:30.000] >> But, um, it's it's crazy how similar the
[00:46:33.359] their memories are. So, like, uh, both
[00:46:35.920] >> I've heard of this event and I've seen
[00:46:38.079] it rendered online, like fake, like some
[00:46:40.560] fake version of it.
[00:46:41.839] >> People call it the most convincing alien
[00:46:44.560] abduction ever because of Mario's
[00:46:46.560] memory. It's insane
[00:46:48.480] >> the level of recall. And um
[00:46:51.119] >> has his memory been tested to make sure
[00:46:53.359] that he's not delusional?
[00:46:55.280] >> I don't know if his memory's been
[00:46:56.720] tested, but when you I mean like I've
[00:46:59.599] known him for two and a half years and I
[00:47:01.359] I interviewed him for the first time I
[00:47:03.520] think yeah two and a half years agoish
[00:47:05.680] and I speak to him you know pretty
[00:47:07.599] regularly and his memory is crazy like
[00:47:09.599] even in that period around like little
[00:47:11.920] things where was like this restaurant
[00:47:13.440] remember the waiter here and this and
[00:47:14.880] that like he just has a wild memory.
[00:47:17.280] Yeah,
[00:47:17.920] >> he has a very good memory. There's that
[00:47:19.440] actress. Do you know Marylu Henner? Do
[00:47:21.520] you know who she is? She was on that
[00:47:23.040] show Taxi. Okay.
[00:47:24.319] >> And she has that very specific kind of
[00:47:26.400] memory and it's super unusual where she
[00:47:28.880] can recall
[00:47:30.079] >> not just a the day, but but like she can
[00:47:34.720] tell you if you give her a date what day
[00:47:36.960] it was and what happened that day and
[00:47:40.079] like you know what was in the news and
[00:47:42.160] what was on television. Like Mary Lu
[00:47:44.240] Henner.
[00:47:44.640] >> That's insane.
[00:47:45.200] >> Yeah. Highly superior autobiographical
[00:47:47.520] memory.
[00:47:48.720] a rare condition allowing her to vividly
[00:47:51.200] recall specific dates, weather,
[00:47:52.960] emotions, and personal experiences for
[00:47:54.720] nearly every day of her life since
[00:47:57.119] childhood. Wow. You know who else is? I
[00:48:00.400] mean, uh the inspiration for Rainman,
[00:48:02.400] Kim Peak, similar thing. You'd be like,
[00:48:04.319] "What what was the weather like?" uh you
[00:48:06.800] know, November 7th, uh 1681, and like
[00:48:10.548] [laughter]
[00:48:11.520] it's like insane like that. And
[00:48:13.760] often it occurs after a traumatic brain
[00:48:16.000] injury for whatever reason.
[00:48:17.760] >> That's weird.
[00:48:18.400] >> It is weird.
[00:48:19.680] >> And and it points to maybe the receiver,
[00:48:21.680] the transmission theory of consciousness
[00:48:23.200] stuff, right? You know,
[00:48:23.920] >> like it rattled something loose.
[00:48:25.520] >> Exactly.
[00:48:26.160] >> Yeah. There's a lot of people that
[00:48:27.599] develop mathematical abilities
[00:48:29.680] >> after head injuries. Like people that
[00:48:31.839] have never been good at anything and all
[00:48:34.079] of a sudden they could do physics,
[00:48:35.599] >> right? Like where does that come from?
[00:48:37.440] What is that? or these, you know,
[00:48:39.119] nonverbal um often autistic children and
[00:48:42.400] the telepathy tapes. I know you had Kai
[00:48:44.079] Dickens on
[00:48:45.280] >> where they're very kind of disembodied
[00:48:48.559] and, you know, it's it's kind of
[00:48:50.400] sometimes hard for them to navigate the
[00:48:52.400] world, but they just their know their
[00:48:55.680] ability to glean knowledge. It's like
[00:48:57.599] they're shortcircuiting our knowledge
[00:48:59.760] pathways. Like they'll know like certain
[00:49:01.920] Egyptian hieroglyphics without ever
[00:49:04.079] having learned about them in school
[00:49:06.079] >> and they can read them. and they can
[00:49:07.440] read them and they meet up on this
[00:49:08.720] telepathic hill. It's like they have
[00:49:10.400] abilities that we don't and they're
[00:49:12.079] actually in some ways more disembodied.
[00:49:14.800] And so it's like there's something about
[00:49:16.079] like we're we're ported into our bodies
[00:49:18.960] but our senses like you when you when
[00:49:21.839] you gain a sense you lose your former
[00:49:23.760] sense or something. And so they're
[00:49:25.520] disembodied. It if you're in a VR you
[00:49:28.640] know system or whatever
[00:49:30.480] >> you're not going to like understand
[00:49:31.680] what's going on outside of it. But if
[00:49:33.440] you're this non-verbal autistic child
[00:49:35.280] who again other people might call them,
[00:49:37.760] you know, not like maladaptive for the
[00:49:40.720] world, not, you know, unable to navigate
[00:49:42.240] the world, they're actually geniuses on
[00:49:44.880] this whole other level. Like they can
[00:49:46.319] sort of short circuit the way we learn,
[00:49:48.079] >> right? And they don't get in their own
[00:49:49.520] way, the way we do.
[00:49:50.800] >> They don't. And there's no traditional
[00:49:52.640] neuroscientific model that explains
[00:49:54.559] that. You have to go into the sort of
[00:49:56.640] Tom Campbell area.
[00:49:58.000] >> Yeah. I've often wondered if maybe what
[00:50:00.240] we're seeing from non-verbal autistic
[00:50:02.319] people and just people on the spectrum
[00:50:03.920] in general is instead of it being like
[00:50:08.720] instead of it being like the way we look
[00:50:10.640] at it is like like you said maladaptive
[00:50:13.520] like that these people have an
[00:50:15.599] unfortunate situation that's happened to
[00:50:17.359] them but maybe what we're looking at is
[00:50:19.599] an emerging type of consciousness and
[00:50:23.599] like if you think about what is wrong
[00:50:26.720] with the human race.
[00:50:29.920] Well, you know, a lot of it has to do
[00:50:32.559] with ego and what we were talking about
[00:50:36.319] earlier, these territorial primate
[00:50:38.640] instincts, the the desire to accumulate
[00:50:42.559] resources and the desire to, you know,
[00:50:45.440] to dominate and to to get status and all
[00:50:48.960] all these different things that human
[00:50:50.559] beings are
[00:50:53.280] captured by. Well, these people aren't
[00:50:55.839] captured by those things at all. And if
[00:50:58.160] we want to get past where we are now,
[00:51:01.040] well, what better way than you introduce
[00:51:04.160] some new whether it's natural selection
[00:51:07.119] or some random mutation or whatever it
[00:51:09.200] is or maybe even some sort of
[00:51:11.200] environmental adaptation that allows
[00:51:13.520] them to become a different kind of
[00:51:16.000] person. Like maybe that is the future.
[00:51:19.119] It totally could be the future. and and
[00:51:21.359] you watch or you know uh listen to the
[00:51:23.760] telepathy tapes and you're like we're
[00:51:26.240] we're maladaptive like they are so
[00:51:28.480] heart-c centered it's almost like
[00:51:30.319] they're living in the future. Yeah. If
[00:51:32.160] you look at you know if if if any of the
[00:51:34.880] UFO stuff points to a future modality of
[00:51:37.359] like how we learn maybe the this sort of
[00:51:39.599] intuition and telepathy sort of gets
[00:51:41.839] selected for and our sort of you know
[00:51:44.559] prefrontal cortex reasoning actually
[00:51:46.400] gets selected against. I don't know.
[00:51:48.720] >> Yeah, I don't know either. But it's odd
[00:51:50.240] that it's emerging as a part of a a you
[00:51:53.200] know much more so now because of you
[00:51:56.800] know various debatable factors whether
[00:51:58.480] it's vaccines or environmental exposure
[00:52:00.319] to co to toxins or whatever you have a a
[00:52:02.800] much higher incidence of this taking
[00:52:05.200] place now as our society becomes more
[00:52:08.720] and more complex and as we move closer
[00:52:11.119] and closer to this like balancing act
[00:52:13.440] between like nuclear war and utopia like
[00:52:16.480] where are we going to land you know like
[00:52:19.040] Well, you know, maybe we're going to
[00:52:21.359] have to get past whatever it is that we
[00:52:24.400] have clung to about being a person. This
[00:52:26.800] this thing that we think is so
[00:52:28.480] important.
[00:52:29.119] >> There's a great book by the great Arthur
[00:52:31.359] C. Clark called Childhood's End. And he
[00:52:34.160] talks about um aliens sort of incepting
[00:52:37.200] the world through telepathic children.
[00:52:40.480] And it's so it's again interesting how
[00:52:42.376] [music] fiction sort of can mirror
[00:52:44.079] reality maybe where a lot of these kids
[00:52:46.240] actually in the telepathy tape see other
[00:52:48.000] beings. They see other worldly beings
[00:52:50.000] and it's sort of casual to them. They're
[00:52:51.520] like, "Yeah, of course, aliens." You
[00:52:52.800] know, like it's it's not even a thing to
[00:52:54.800] them. And so they might already just be
[00:52:56.880] living sort of in the in this future
[00:52:58.400] kind of expanded epistemology that we're
[00:53:00.720] we're sort of limited if if the Campbell
[00:53:03.119] thing is right like our consensus
[00:53:05.920] collapsing functions just narrower and
[00:53:07.760] theirs might be just wider,
[00:53:09.359] >> right? This episode is brought to you by
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[00:54:02.880] Ziprecruiter. Meet your match on
[00:54:05.119] Ziprecruiter, right? And then when
[00:54:07.280] people consume all these bizarre plants
[00:54:10.000] that allows them to tap into some
[00:54:12.480] something
[00:54:14.079] like if you've heard about that mushroom
[00:54:15.680] that makes you see little people. No.
[00:54:18.007] [laughter] What is this?
[00:54:19.119] >> Oh, it's very weird. So, this mushroom
[00:54:21.760] is apparently it's a food mushroom and
[00:54:24.480] it's not psilocybin and people eat it.
[00:54:26.800] But if it's not cooked correctly, if
[00:54:28.960] it's not cooked like to a certain
[00:54:30.559] temperature, apparently the side effect
[00:54:32.319] is you start to see little people
[00:54:34.079] everywhere.
[00:54:34.800] >> No way.
[00:54:35.760] >> Yeah. They saw them on their dishes when
[00:54:38.319] eating the mushrooms are making people
[00:54:39.760] hallucinate. Dozens of tiny humans.
[00:54:43.440] >> What? Like like little humans standing
[00:54:46.319] on the plates and stuff.
[00:54:47.440] >> I don't know.
[00:54:47.920] >> Like honey, I shrunk the kids sort of.
[00:54:49.599] >> We can we can try to figure out like
[00:54:52.559] what they're saying. It's not the
[00:54:54.160] Amonita mascara. That's a picture of
[00:54:55.680] Ammonita Miscaria, which is the uh
[00:54:58.480] >> also very trippy. Possibly
[00:55:00.640] >> dancing on mushroom
[00:55:01.520] >> the Eucharist.
[00:55:02.640] >> Yeah.
[00:55:03.040] >> According to one scholar,
[00:55:05.760] >> not Yeah. Well, that that's a we that's
[00:55:08.160] a weird one, too. It's just it's so
[00:55:10.480] ubiquitous in ancient depictions of
[00:55:13.119] Santa Claus and of uh even religious art
[00:55:16.960] like the you've seen the fresco in
[00:55:19.119] France. It's a very old fresco of Adam
[00:55:20.800] and Eve. And instead of the tree of the
[00:55:23.119] knowledge of good and evil, it's not a
[00:55:24.640] tree at all. It's a it's an aminita
[00:55:26.319] mascaria mushroom. It's this huge like
[00:55:28.960] mushroom spore with like multiple
[00:55:31.760] growth. Have you seen it?
[00:55:32.720] >> I haven't seen that.
[00:55:33.680] >> I think it's 900 years old, something
[00:55:36.559] like that. It's really old. See if you
[00:55:38.160] can find that fresco in It's in I
[00:55:41.040] believe it's in France. In France. They
[00:55:43.520] don't like that. France. Uh France. That
[00:55:46.400] is a um it's a depiction of uh Adam and
[00:55:49.760] Eve and the tree of the knowledge of
[00:55:52.079] good and evil.
[00:55:54.160] That's it.
[00:55:55.040] >> Wow.
[00:55:55.839] >> I mean that looks very similar to
[00:55:58.079] ammonita miscarriia being that ammonita
[00:56:00.400] miscarriia which has a a red cap and
[00:56:03.839] white dots all over it.
[00:56:05.760] >> I don't know how many mushrooms have
[00:56:08.160] white dots all over it like that, but
[00:56:10.400] that seems to look like that.
[00:56:11.839] >> No, that seems to look a lot like that,
[00:56:14.160] >> you And then there's the uh John Marco
[00:56:16.480] Allegro, the guy who wrote uh the sacred
[00:56:18.799] mushroom in the cross, the the guy who
[00:56:21.280] was on the Dead Sea Scrolls Commission,
[00:56:23.200] who was an ordained minister, but also
[00:56:25.920] was agnostic. And after 14 years of
[00:56:28.319] deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls, he's
[00:56:30.400] like, I think [laughter]
[00:56:33.280] this is all about fertility rituals and
[00:56:35.280] the consumption of psychedelic
[00:56:36.480] mushrooms.
[00:56:37.280] >> And everybody's like, what the are
[00:56:39.040] you talking about? But that's what if
[00:56:40.880] you like Brian Murescu I know you've had
[00:56:43.359] on multiple times the immortality key or
[00:56:45.200] Carl Ruck like they all sort of you know
[00:56:47.359] come to that conclusion and even Martin
[00:56:49.359] Luther King wrote an essay called the
[00:56:51.440] pagan continuity hypothesis which is
[00:56:53.599] that Christian didn't Christianity
[00:56:55.520] didn't arise in a vacuum.
[00:56:57.040] >> Martin Luther King
[00:56:58.079] >> Martin Luther King wrote a book about
[00:57:00.079] how it was there was a continuum between
[00:57:01.839] these sort of pagan mystery rituals and
[00:57:03.839] the advent of Christianity.
[00:57:05.359] >> Wow. So look at this. Even to this day,
[00:57:07.599] science doesn't understand what's going
[00:57:09.520] on in the brain to cause this or how to
[00:57:12.000] treat it. And this mushroom is the only
[00:57:13.839] thing that we currently know of to
[00:57:15.839] reliably produce this effect, said
[00:57:17.920] University of Utah researcher Colin uh
[00:57:20.960] Domnau in a new interview with Live
[00:57:23.760] Science, adding that the gnomeike beings
[00:57:26.640] appear after about 12 to 24 hours and
[00:57:29.920] may stick around for several days to
[00:57:32.319] follow. These aren't like some vague
[00:57:34.720] hallucinations. These are like
[00:57:37.040] threedimensionally rendered, highly
[00:57:39.280] detailed figures inhabiting your
[00:57:41.839] exterior world. And they're also
[00:57:44.160] interacting with objects in the real
[00:57:46.319] world, like crawling up chairs and
[00:57:48.559] tables or under doorways.
[00:57:51.599] >> Think of having to explain that
[00:57:53.119] condition if it hasn't gone away to
[00:57:55.119] somebody that you don't know. Like, I'm
[00:57:56.640] really [laughter] sorry.
[00:57:57.359] >> How about the fact that it shows up a
[00:57:59.760] day later? So, you you have some Chinese
[00:58:02.240] food and they forgot to cook the
[00:58:03.599] mushrooms, right? And then a day later
[00:58:05.520] you've got like little dudes crawling up
[00:58:07.040] the chairs and it lasts for
[00:58:08.480] days.
[00:58:09.440] >> So absurd.
[00:58:10.400] >> I found that after it saying many people
[00:58:12.079] don't even feel any type of uh
[00:58:16.319] hallucination or thing except for
[00:58:19.050] [laughter]
[00:58:20.079] >> except for the miniature people.
[00:58:22.240] >> That is the funniest thing.
[00:58:23.920] >> Whoa. Um it's called the Lan Moa. How do
[00:58:27.599] you say that? Lama
[00:58:31.200] >> Asiatica. Um, so what what type of it's
[00:58:34.559] it's Asian cooking. Like what China? So
[00:58:36.880] here it is. Uh, it's native to the pine
[00:58:39.119] forest in both southwestern China and
[00:58:41.280] the northern Philippines where it's wild
[00:58:43.839] harvested and sold in local markets for
[00:58:46.000] typical culinary use. Yet despite
[00:58:48.000] decades of anecdotal reports of
[00:58:49.599] hallucinations, usually as a result of
[00:58:51.839] undercooking, the ingredient um the
[00:58:54.640] species became known to science only
[00:58:56.960] about 10 years ago.
[00:58:58.880] >> Wow. Throw that in with the puffer fish
[00:59:01.680] of things you don't want to cook
[00:59:03.920] incorrectly.
[00:59:04.480] >> Well, or you do.
[00:59:06.240] >> Or you do, depending [laughter] on what
[00:59:08.079] you're looking
[00:59:08.799] >> raw. What happens if you eat it raw?
[00:59:11.520] These little people are said to be
[00:59:12.720] typically like teasing, playing with, or
[00:59:15.280] harassing the person seeing them.
[00:59:18.559] Boy, I mean, doesn't that mirror the
[00:59:21.040] talk of like gnomes and elves like
[00:59:23.359] throughout history?
[00:59:24.240] >> Totally. Yeah. Trickster sort of
[00:59:26.160] phenomenon.
[00:59:26.640] >> That guy's got it right there.
[00:59:27.760] >> Yeah. And that's the guy call.
[00:59:29.200] >> I would drug test Colin in a
[00:59:30.960] heartbeat. Look at that fella.
[00:59:32.480] >> I bet he's embedded.
[00:59:33.359] >> He's having fun out there.
[00:59:34.400] >> He's embibed. [laughter]
[00:59:35.920] >> Post-doal student, University of Utah.
[00:59:38.400] We might have to have Colin on.
[00:59:40.319] >> I think he should.
[00:59:41.280] >> Yeah, seems like it. Very interesting.
[00:59:46.240] >> So, this is crazy. Whereas the genes
[00:59:48.160] responsible for synthesizing
[00:59:49.760] psychoactive compounds in typical magic
[00:59:51.920] mushrooms are well documented.
[00:59:54.079] >> Uh Don Mau Dawn Mau's team found none in
[00:59:58.160] Laziatica.
[00:59:59.839] >> There weren't even known psychoactive
[01:00:01.760] compounds. So it seems like this must be
[01:00:03.520] some new hallucinogenic compound waiting
[01:00:05.839] to be discovered because there's nothing
[01:00:07.920] that matches anything in our database.
[01:00:10.799] >> That's so weird.
[01:00:11.359] >> So someone's going to isolate that and
[01:00:12.960] turn that into a drug. [laughter]
[01:00:14.400] >> What the man? Weird. You imagine
[01:00:16.559] dose somebody with that and try to con
[01:00:18.640] if you're trying to convince someone
[01:00:19.680] that they're going crazy. He dose them
[01:00:22.079] with that and like, uh, are you alone,
[01:00:24.240] Mike? [laughter] Are you alone in this
[01:00:26.000] room with me? No. There's little people
[01:00:28.799] everywhere. I told you. Let's take his
[01:00:30.319] money.
[01:00:30.720] >> Oh my god. It's like a It's like the
[01:00:32.640] pranky pull where everyone goes silent.
[01:00:34.480] They're mouththing or whatever with you,
[01:00:35.920] but like on steroid. Like the worst
[01:00:37.920] version of that ever.
[01:00:39.520] >> What the man? And how long have
[01:00:43.040] people known about this mushroom? 10
[01:00:45.440] years which
[01:00:46.400] >> right us western world
[01:00:48.559] >> but how how long have they known in
[01:00:50.799] Asia?
[01:00:51.200] >> Let me perplexity this and see what
[01:00:52.720] other fun information I can get.
[01:00:54.559] >> Throw that into our AI sponsor
[01:00:56.240] perplexity because I want to know
[01:00:57.680] whether or not that's why they cook it.
[01:01:00.240] >> I also wonder put it in salads before
[01:01:03.280] and trip for a month.
[01:01:04.960] >> There's some origin story. The original
[01:01:06.799] chef saw little people for the rest of
[01:01:08.799] his life. Yeah. What happens if you eat
[01:01:10.799] it raw?
[01:01:13.520] Only one way to find out.
[01:01:14.640] >> Yeah. He hasn't tried it yet.
[01:01:16.079] >> I'm scared. Yeah, right. [laughter]
[01:01:17.839] Look at him.
[01:01:19.760] >> Guy's eating a whole salad with it. I
[01:01:22.319] guarantee you that dude's tried it. He's
[01:01:24.319] full of I I have no idea.
[01:01:26.382] [laughter]
[01:01:26.960] >> I'm assuming this is what happens.
[01:01:28.400] >> I am a scientist.
[01:01:29.599] >> Yeah. [snorts]
[01:01:31.520] >> It's funny how a lot of those people
[01:01:34.079] researching stuff like that, they they
[01:01:36.000] know. Like for the the first time I
[01:01:37.599] interviewed Rick Stman,
[01:01:38.880] >> Uhhuh.
[01:01:39.440] >> he didn't want to talk about his own
[01:01:40.799] personal DMT experiences. That's so
[01:01:42.559] often the case cuz they want to separate
[01:01:44.799] it and it's like it's all good. You're
[01:01:46.880] talking about this being a thing like to
[01:01:49.599] me it lends more credibility if you've
[01:01:51.200] experienced it.
[01:01:52.160] >> Yes. But
[01:01:53.359] >> in his defense when we first started
[01:01:56.000] talking and when I first had him on the
[01:01:58.240] world was a different place in terms of
[01:02:00.640] just the acceptance of this stuff. This
[01:02:02.640] is like this predates people going to
[01:02:06.079] like Costa Rica and having Iaska
[01:02:07.839] experiences that wasn't commonly talked
[01:02:10.720] about. It wasn't a like everybody talks
[01:02:12.400] about that now. No, it's
[01:02:13.680] >> this predates uh any IBA gain
[01:02:16.160] experiences. Any even concept of there's
[01:02:18.799] a plant that you could take that cures
[01:02:20.240] you of any kind of addictions that you
[01:02:22.079] have.
[01:02:22.400] >> This predates you sitting behind the
[01:02:24.160] president of the United States and
[01:02:25.988] [laughter] helping see through this
[01:02:28.160] dstigmatization and legalization of
[01:02:30.240] these treatments.
[01:02:30.720] >> It predates a lot of that.
[01:02:31.920] >> Yeah, fair enough. It predates people's
[01:02:33.599] understanding of why these things are
[01:02:34.880] illegal in the first place as well,
[01:02:36.240] which I thought was like really
[01:02:37.680] important when we did that press
[01:02:38.960] conference to say that this is this is
[01:02:41.839] not illegal because it's harmful and the
[01:02:45.680] world's trying to protect you from this.
[01:02:47.040] This is illegal because of the Nixon
[01:02:48.319] administration.
[01:02:49.119] >> Totally.
[01:02:49.760] >> Yeah. It's it didn't make it and they've
[01:02:51.599] probably set our
[01:02:54.400] psychological evolution, the evolution
[01:02:56.880] of our culture back hundreds of years.
[01:02:59.040] >> Potentially cool thing.
[01:03:00.640] >> Aha. possible ancient Chinese reference.
[01:03:03.359] A 3rd century CE Dowist text described a
[01:03:07.200] flesh spirit mushroom which when eaten
[01:03:09.839] raw lets one see a little person and
[01:03:12.799] attain transcendence transcendence. This
[01:03:16.400] is intriguing but it's not confirmed
[01:03:18.640] species identification. So it should not
[01:03:20.559] be treated as proof that the text refers
[01:03:22.799] to Laziatica. Okay. Well, what other
[01:03:26.240] mushrooms allow you to see little
[01:03:28.559] people? They call it uh Liliputin
[01:03:32.240] Hallucinations.
[01:03:35.359] >> Papa New Guinea mushroom madness in the
[01:03:39.039] Western Highlands beginning in 1934
[01:03:40.960] involving dramatic behavioral changes
[01:03:42.960] and reports consistent with little
[01:03:44.799] person visions. This exact mushroom
[01:03:47.440] involved remains unconfirmed. It may or
[01:03:50.240] may not have been Laziatica. Well, I bet
[01:03:52.960] the Pow New Guinea climate is probably
[01:03:55.440] at least reasonably similar to the
[01:03:56.960] Philippines, right?
[01:03:58.000] >> Yeah.
[01:03:59.520] modern documentation
[01:04:01.520] uh Chinese researchers reported ca cases
[01:04:04.079] of liilapucian hallucinations after
[01:04:06.559] mushroom consumption in Eunan in 1991.
[01:04:10.720] Laziotica itself was only formally
[01:04:12.880] described scientifically in 2015 after
[01:04:16.160] market specimens were genetically
[01:04:18.640] examined. Wow.
[01:04:19.920] >> But it sounds just like Gulver's
[01:04:21.440] travels. We have like a
[01:04:23.039] >> an explanation of it. So wouldn't it be
[01:04:25.200] maybe that's what the author of that
[01:04:26.799] book,
[01:04:27.280] >> right? Oh, probably at least had a story
[01:04:30.240] about
[01:04:32.079] >> That's probably what it is.
[01:04:34.400] >> That's probably it. exactly what
[01:04:36.319] it is. This guy went on a journey and
[01:04:38.160] like I tell you little tiny
[01:04:40.000] people are with me. [laughter]
[01:04:42.480] >> Exactly.
[01:04:44.799] >> It's like I wonder like what that is and
[01:04:48.000] whether or not they're actually here all
[01:04:49.520] the time and that just lets you pop in
[01:04:52.480] >> and check. Who knows?
[01:04:54.640] >> Yeah.
[01:04:54.960] >> It's hard to say. Well, we're so limited
[01:04:57.680] in our senses. Just think about what we
[01:04:59.760] know about just think about what we know
[01:05:02.400] about the quantum world, what we know
[01:05:04.640] about subatomic particles. Like, we
[01:05:07.200] can't see those, but yet we know they
[01:05:08.720] exist. Well, why can't we see them?
[01:05:09.839] Because our senses aren't good enough.
[01:05:11.280] So, like
[01:05:12.000] >> you can't even measure them at there's
[01:05:13.599] like Heisenberg uncertainty principles
[01:05:15.280] where you can't measure the position and
[01:05:17.039] momentum at the same time of an electron
[01:05:19.200] perfectly accurately.
[01:05:20.240] >> Yeah. And they also can be in two places
[01:05:22.960] at one time,
[01:05:24.160] >> which is what? Okay.
[01:05:26.559] >> Yeah. Not two different things. No.
[01:05:29.200] Okay. They also could be still and
[01:05:31.280] moving at the same time. Okay. What the
[01:05:32.880] are we even talking about? It
[01:05:35.599] sounds like we're talking about
[01:05:36.960] or magic or or both.
[01:05:39.119] >> Right. So, our senses are the real
[01:05:41.280] culprit here. It's a real problem.
[01:05:43.200] >> And back then, real scientists, credible
[01:05:46.240] scientist like Einstein was going to
[01:05:48.079] debate Neil's Boore. There's a great
[01:05:49.599] book called What is Real by a guy named
[01:05:51.359] Adam Becker about all of this where
[01:05:54.079] Einstein was saying the quantum stuff is
[01:05:56.559] too spooky as they call it spooky action
[01:05:58.480] at a distance. It's too weird and we
[01:06:01.280] need to reconcile it with some sort of
[01:06:03.920] onlogical truth or reality. You can't
[01:06:06.319] just say shut up and calculate. It's not
[01:06:08.559] just this like mathematical formalism.
[01:06:10.960] And I think now it's turned into just
[01:06:12.720] this like heruristic for like doing
[01:06:14.480] science. Oh, we built transistors and
[01:06:16.000] semiconductors based on quantum
[01:06:17.520] mechanics or whatever. But actually,
[01:06:19.760] it's like way trippier if you like look
[01:06:21.520] into like what it points to as far as
[01:06:23.440] reality itself. It's way weirder.
[01:06:26.000] >> Yeah.
[01:06:26.880] >> Yeah. M McKenna was one of the first
[01:06:28.720] people that I ever heard talk about like
[01:06:32.400] using psilocybin mushrooms in particular
[01:06:35.280] as a method of contacting UFOs,
[01:06:39.359] >> you know, and he was like, you know,
[01:06:41.119] people that are looking for UFO, well,
[01:06:43.039] they're very available.
[01:06:45.520] >> His weird way of talking.
[01:06:47.839] He was almost like a machine elf himself
[01:06:50.160] the way he spoke. He would like kind of
[01:06:53.359] I don't know he had this kind of
[01:06:54.559] trickstery vibe. There's an amazing clip
[01:06:56.160] actually with him and John Mack where
[01:06:58.319] John Mack is actually getting like kind
[01:06:59.839] of very ideologically angry and actually
[01:07:03.440] similar to what you just said about Rick
[01:07:04.799] Straman. He he had gone through this
[01:07:06.480] crazy kind of review of his credentials
[01:07:08.720] at Harvard. he was being almost stripped
[01:07:10.720] of them of his position rather because
[01:07:12.799] of looking into you know alien
[01:07:14.960] abductions of as you know this lead at
[01:07:18.240] Harvard in in the psychiatry department
[01:07:20.880] >> and you just see like McKenna sort of
[01:07:22.640] like goating him along and being kind of
[01:07:24.319] cheeky and he was just such a funny
[01:07:26.559] interesting character who was so
[01:07:28.960] simultaneously trippy but also precise
[01:07:31.200] in his language was extremely smart.
[01:07:33.680] Yeah, extremely smart, but also like
[01:07:36.720] really wanted to believe. Like he had
[01:07:38.880] that weird timewave zero thing that he
[01:07:41.520] had he thought there was going to be
[01:07:42.960] some sort of an event on December 21st,
[01:07:45.280] 2012, which is the end of the long count
[01:07:47.280] of the Mayan calendar. He was convinced
[01:07:50.240] that like there was going to be some
[01:07:51.680] sort of a an event like that time was
[01:07:54.880] and he thought, you know, obviously this
[01:07:56.640] is in the 90s when he was talking about
[01:07:58.160] this and discussing it, he thought it
[01:07:59.520] was going to be the invention of a time
[01:08:00.799] machine.
[01:08:01.599] >> That's so crazy. Yeah,
[01:08:03.599] >> he would also trip for weeks on end as
[01:08:07.200] you know with his brother in the Amazon
[01:08:09.359] and he would download all sorts of
[01:08:10.720] stuff. I almost feel like the implicit
[01:08:12.880] kind of foundational philosophy that he
[01:08:15.200] has is that mushrooms are aliens
[01:08:17.679] themselves. Yeah. And the reason I I
[01:08:19.679] think that is because so in 1973 I
[01:08:24.000] believe Francis Crick who discovered the
[01:08:26.239] double helical structure of DNA uh wrote
[01:08:28.960] a paper and then he followed it up with
[01:08:30.400] a book in 1981 called life itself and
[01:08:32.560] it's all about how DNA in a 100 million
[01:08:35.120] years it's too short of a period of time
[01:08:37.600] for it to have formed on Earth. So you
[01:08:40.000] needed some sort of panspermia
[01:08:42.080] >> and so you needed something to have
[01:08:43.440] traveled interstellar. What's the best
[01:08:45.600] candidate for traveling interstellar?
[01:08:47.600] probably an extreophile something like a
[01:08:49.679] mushroom.
[01:08:50.239] >> Yes,
[01:08:50.640] >> mushrooms are almost like zip files of
[01:08:52.640] consciousness. They show up at the end
[01:08:54.640] of life and before life and so like if
[01:08:57.199] you look at Chernobyl for example like
[01:08:58.960] what grows first after the you know
[01:09:01.279] experience mushrooms you know it's you
[01:09:03.600] have the they call it the woodwide web I
[01:09:05.520] believe in in Oregon it's like the you
[01:09:06.880] know largest organism in the world is is
[01:09:08.799] actually like a myellular network and
[01:09:10.880] then where it gets really trippy is like
[01:09:13.199] if you think about a cartesev four scale
[01:09:15.520] civilization which is cartesev scales
[01:09:18.000] are basically like our ability to
[01:09:19.440] harness energy but you could think of it
[01:09:20.880] as like a completely intergalactic
[01:09:23.120] civilization that's like just very deep
[01:09:25.040] space fairing. What would it look like?
[01:09:27.120] Would it look like a kind of bipedal
[01:09:29.120] homminid where you like show up, you
[01:09:31.199] know, on another planet and you get
[01:09:32.799] you're this fragile kind of meaty thing
[01:09:35.359] that gets shot at? No. You would be this
[01:09:38.560] like zip file of consciousness
[01:09:40.400] extreophile that would spread all
[01:09:43.120] throughout other planets and you would
[01:09:46.719] basically create a symbiotic
[01:09:48.719] relationship with hosts and we all have
[01:09:51.120] microbiomes. It's p to say that but we
[01:09:53.600] also all have microbiomes that accompany
[01:09:56.159] the microbiomes and there's the mind gut
[01:09:59.520] connection is also this p thing to talk
[01:10:01.440] about obviously you have the vagus nerve
[01:10:03.120] you have neurotransmitters getting
[01:10:04.320] created so um you know mushrooms
[01:10:07.600] obviously affect our thinking you can
[01:10:09.199] watch you know bullet ants in the Amazon
[01:10:11.360] getting like taken over by cortisep
[01:10:13.360] mushrooms and literally their their
[01:10:14.880] whole mus muscular ske skeletal system
[01:10:17.920] are being you know they're being
[01:10:19.120] controlled by the mushrooms and then you
[01:10:21.600] look at specific jumps in human
[01:10:23.840] evolution. And the the one that people
[01:10:25.920] talk about is obviously the stoned ape
[01:10:28.400] theory, which is, you know, why did we
[01:10:30.239] double in cranial size between 2 million
[01:10:32.159] years ago, homoabilis, and homo sapiens
[01:10:34.640] 300,000 years ago? That's really trippy.
[01:10:36.960] Maybe it was because as hunter
[01:10:38.239] gatherers, we were following, you know,
[01:10:40.560] animals. Animals take shits. And there's
[01:10:43.280] psilocybin cubensus or, you know, grow
[01:10:45.520] on on poop. And, you know, and then
[01:10:48.400] people would, you know, trip out. They
[01:10:50.239] take these mushrooms and they trip out
[01:10:51.520] and then you get like neurogenesis and
[01:10:53.199] you get these epigenetic changes and you
[01:10:54.719] get this doubling of cranial size. But
[01:10:56.719] what's the other big break in human
[01:10:59.040] evolution 10,000 years ago which is the
[01:11:02.239] advent of civilization and culture and
[01:11:04.719] think about you know uh what really is
[01:11:08.159] the kind of the line break there. What
[01:11:10.320] happened? We created you know an
[01:11:12.640] agrarian society like we basically
[01:11:14.800] agriculture. So you have wheat, barley
[01:11:16.719] and rye were the first crops that we
[01:11:18.239] grew and what grow what grows on wheat,
[01:11:21.199] barley and rye? Urgot and these
[01:11:23.749] [laughter] sort of psychedelic
[01:11:25.120] substances. And so I think a lot of
[01:11:26.800] people assume that the agriculture gets
[01:11:29.040] created and then you get specialization,
[01:11:30.960] you get urbanization, you get history,
[01:11:32.400] you get religion. All these things are
[01:11:33.679] downstream of like we have more time. We
[01:11:35.760] can think about this stuff. But what if
[01:11:37.760] they're downstream of the tripping
[01:11:39.469] [laughter] that occurred? And if you
[01:11:41.120] talk if you look at actually um you know
[01:11:43.600] the immortality key by Brian Mur rescue
[01:11:45.840] he will openly say I think these mystery
[01:11:47.920] rituals go way back before the Greeks
[01:11:50.400] and so and you had prescratic rituals
[01:11:52.480] that Peter Kingsley writes about
[01:11:53.840] Haidiger writes about this. So how far
[01:11:56.000] back did it go? Maybe it goes back to
[01:11:57.760] that that big break, you know, around
[01:12:00.239] then. And then you get into this thing
[01:12:02.080] of like are uh mushrooms sort of
[01:12:06.080] symbiotic, you know, cardartesev forcale
[01:12:09.040] aliens that, you know, are Trojan horses
[01:12:12.719] for their own species that like we
[01:12:15.840] ingest. They get into us and then they
[01:12:18.080] sort of subtly control our thoughts, our
[01:12:20.320] behavior, our perception. And you know,
[01:12:22.719] it goes back to the McKenna. McKenna
[01:12:24.400] actually had this trip in the Amazonian
[01:12:26.080] forest and he says um about the
[01:12:28.640] mushroom. He says he's speaking to the
[01:12:30.880] mushroom and the mushroom says within my
[01:12:33.199] memory exists uh the blueprints for
[01:12:35.920] hyper light drive ships. So it's like
[01:12:38.400] the mushrooms are seeding us with this
[01:12:40.719] ability to go interstellar. And think
[01:12:43.040] about all of the crazy ideas that we've
[01:12:45.199] gotten from psychedelics, you know. So,
[01:12:48.080] who are we to say that our evolution is
[01:12:50.159] not being co-directed or assisted by,
[01:12:53.360] you know, something else? And we're now
[01:12:55.440] saying this in the in the, you know,
[01:12:56.960] we're seeing this with bacteria and
[01:12:58.480] other things like that that, you know,
[01:13:00.159] it's it's hard to say exactly what scale
[01:13:02.960] or hierarchy, you know, um, biological
[01:13:06.000] evolution occurs, but, you know, I think
[01:13:08.400] I think, uh, you know, mushrooms are a
[01:13:10.159] really great candidate. Also, humans
[01:13:12.880] mistake human tissue for uh uh fungal
[01:13:17.120] diseases. We're we're so susceptible to
[01:13:18.960] fungal disease because human and
[01:13:21.040] mushroom DNA are actually very similar.
[01:13:23.199] Human and and mushroom and and and
[01:13:25.040] myellular DNA are more phoggenetically
[01:13:28.239] similar than humans and plant DNA.
[01:13:30.960] >> Yeah. Mushrooms breathe air.
[01:13:32.800] >> There you go.
[01:13:34.750] [laughter]
[01:13:35.760] >> Just like when you tell people that they
[01:13:37.520] go, whoa.
[01:13:38.320] >> Yeah. and they can survive in a vacuum.
[01:13:40.880] >> In a vacuum and they're very homeostatic
[01:13:42.880] in nature. They like can like eat
[01:13:45.199] plastic in certain situations and stuff.
[01:13:47.600] And so it's like they are the stewards
[01:13:49.600] of the earth. If you if you get out of
[01:13:52.000] line too much or something, it's like
[01:13:53.920] they'll, you know, and then think about
[01:13:55.280] people that take mushrooms. They become
[01:13:56.719] more like conscientious vis the entire
[01:13:59.360] earth. So they're they're very sort of
[01:14:01.120] like um they're all about ecological
[01:14:03.199] balance. It's just so stunning how one
[01:14:07.280] presidential administration that was
[01:14:09.040] trying to stop the anti-war movement and
[01:14:11.360] the civil rights movement threw water on
[01:14:14.640] like one of the most profound compounds
[01:14:18.000] that exists on earth.
[01:14:19.520] >> Totally. And it and Timothy Liry was
[01:14:22.960] probably the CIA construct who was
[01:14:25.199] >> You think so?
[01:14:26.080] >> I think so. His wife thought that. I
[01:14:28.239] think his wife thought that.
[01:14:29.520] >> I believe so. I think there's a quote
[01:14:30.800] around that.
[01:14:31.360] >> Really? How so? Oh, was he a CIA
[01:14:33.360] construct?
[01:14:33.920] >> Well, I think it was it's similar to the
[01:14:35.920] like Tom O'Neal chaos theory with Manson
[01:14:38.640] where it's like uh he looks like a
[01:14:40.480] hippie, smells like a hippie, was living
[01:14:42.000] with Dennis Wilson, this you know, Beach
[01:14:43.520] Boys or whatever, and then and then he
[01:14:45.040] commits murder. So like, and then you
[01:14:46.800] have the Joan Diddian quote that like
[01:14:48.640] that's the day the 60s ended, you know,
[01:14:50.480] the day the date of the Tate Labianca
[01:14:52.640] murders. So I I think it's um maybe
[01:14:56.080] somewhat similar here where it's like uh
[01:14:58.400] you're dosing people with way too high
[01:15:00.400] doses and you're like seeding a lot of
[01:15:02.640] stuff you know uh too much and you're
[01:15:05.840] like you're there's actually a quote
[01:15:07.760] from Abby Hoffman um who was you know
[01:15:10.320] obviously you know big hippie at the
[01:15:11.760] time where he's like we were just
[01:15:13.280] upright you know Berkeley students who
[01:15:15.840] were protesting and then here came the
[01:15:18.320] the the flower children from LA and
[01:15:20.719] Laurel Canyon and stuff and they were
[01:15:22.719] all about their drugs and their murders
[01:15:24.400] and their guns and like they were they
[01:15:26.239] were just sort of really crazy. And so I
[01:15:28.480] think the theory is that Timothy Liry
[01:15:30.000] was sort of pushing this stuff in an
[01:15:31.520] overly aggressive way that would then
[01:15:33.520] cause this sort of backlash similar to
[01:15:35.199] the Manson thing.
[01:15:36.080] >> Well, they also had like weird
[01:15:37.520] connections to like biker gangs,
[01:15:40.640] >> right? Like didn't the Ken Keezy and the
[01:15:43.199] Mary Pranksters have weird connections
[01:15:45.040] with like the Hell's Angels? Isn't that
[01:15:47.199] how Hunter Thompson got involved with
[01:15:49.760] the Hell's Angels? I think there's some
[01:15:51.840] sort of a connection. I might be making
[01:15:53.840] that up. I'm feeling very vague on this,
[01:15:56.960] >> but I believe they partied together
[01:15:58.960] quite a bit, which is like if you were I
[01:16:01.440] mean I guess you're both outcasts of
[01:16:04.239] society,
[01:16:05.920] you know, I guess you could kind of
[01:16:07.280] chalk it off to that, you know, like
[01:16:09.440] that maybe if you're hanging out in
[01:16:11.520] weird places, you're going to meet weird
[01:16:12.960] people.
[01:16:13.440] >> Yeah, totally. And I I I shouldn't say
[01:16:15.600] I'm like extremely high conviction that
[01:16:17.920] was a CIA agent, but
[01:16:19.679] >> but even the the connection with biker
[01:16:22.320] gangs, like biker gangs. Did you ever
[01:16:24.480] read Hell's Angels?
[01:16:25.440] >> No.
[01:16:25.760] >> It's really great. It's uh one of I
[01:16:28.400] think it's Hunter's breakout book and it
[01:16:32.000] was before like it was very clear that
[01:16:34.320] he was sort of blurring the lines
[01:16:35.920] between fiction and reality like with
[01:16:38.560] literature like a literary license. But
[01:16:42.239] what what essentially happened was these
[01:16:44.960] guys came home from Vietnam completely
[01:16:48.239] disillusioned. They'd killed a bunch of
[01:16:49.920] people. They'd been shot at. They'd seen
[01:16:51.760] their friends die. They didn't want to
[01:16:53.679] have any part in this society
[01:16:55.920] anymore. And they just wanted to ride
[01:16:57.840] motorcycles and be free. And this is
[01:17:00.719] what started sort of the biker movement
[01:17:03.520] in America. M
[01:17:05.280] >> and when you think about the people that
[01:17:07.520] were in Vietnam, well, Vietnam was all
[01:17:09.440] about drugs to begin with. The whole
[01:17:11.520] reason why we wanted control over that
[01:17:14.719] area of the world, that's the golden
[01:17:17.199] triangle. That's where they were
[01:17:18.320] bringing in all the opium. That's where
[01:17:20.000] there was billions of dollars of
[01:17:22.159] drugs coming through there. same as
[01:17:24.800] Afghanistan, very similar in that way,
[01:17:27.440] is that we conveniently find like really
[01:17:30.000] important conflicts that we have to be
[01:17:31.440] involved in that just happen to be the
[01:17:33.199] hubs of massive amounts of drug money.
[01:17:36.320] >> And so when these people were over
[01:17:39.199] there, they were a lot of them were
[01:17:40.880] doing drugs. A lot of them were hooked
[01:17:42.560] on drugs. A lot of them came back and
[01:17:45.120] suffered through withdrawals when they
[01:17:47.040] returned to America. And so those are
[01:17:50.000] the type of people that you would
[01:17:51.040] imagine would be like, well, this
[01:17:52.880] life. Yeah,
[01:17:53.679] >> you know, I am just going to do whatever
[01:17:55.360] I can and I'll I'll rob the man.
[01:17:59.120] I'll whatever. We're going to figure out
[01:18:01.280] a way to make our own society and we're
[01:18:04.480] going to be outlaws.
[01:18:05.920] >> Just opt out.
[01:18:06.800] >> Yeah. Opt out and do drugs. And and I
[01:18:09.440] that's what they did. And so it kind of
[01:18:11.440] makes sense in a way that they would
[01:18:13.679] sort of meet the, you know, the Flower
[01:18:16.719] Children and Ken Keezy and the Merry
[01:18:18.960] Pranksters and Timothy Liry. kind of
[01:18:21.679] makes sense that they would have
[01:18:23.440] interaction with each other.
[01:18:24.719] >> I feel like the the boomers in that
[01:18:27.360] period like the late 60s early 70s had
[01:18:30.000] this opportunity.
[01:18:32.560] >> Sorry.
[01:18:33.199] >> Okay.
[01:18:33.840] >> Lir's research was rumored to be linked
[01:18:35.760] to CIA which allegedly provide funded
[01:18:38.320] funding. CIA was greatly interested in
[01:18:40.880] the effects of mindaltering drugs in the
[01:18:42.560] 1960s and its drug research was
[01:18:44.880] incorporated into the controversial MK
[01:18:46.960] Ultra experiments. According to Walter
[01:18:48.880] Boart, Liry admitted to working for the
[01:18:51.440] CIA since 1962 as an important national
[01:18:55.120] asset.
[01:18:56.640] He's quoted by Boart as follows. I would
[01:18:59.360] say that 80% of my movements, 80% of the
[01:19:02.400] decisions I made were suggested to me by
[01:19:04.960] CIA people. I like the CIA.
[01:19:09.040] This is crazy. The game they're playing
[01:19:11.280] is better than the FBI, better than the
[01:19:14.239] Saigon police, better than Franco's
[01:19:17.520] police, better than the Israeli police.
[01:19:20.080] They're a thousand times better than the
[01:19:21.600] KGB. So, it comes down to who are you
[01:19:24.480] going to work for? The Yankees or the
[01:19:26.640] Dodgers? What? [laughter]
[01:19:28.800] >> That's crazy.
[01:19:29.679] >> What?
[01:19:31.360] That's mad. Yeah.
[01:19:33.199] >> This was a very weird 6 months he spent
[01:19:36.320] uh conveniently right after he got out
[01:19:38.560] of the army as a non-commission officer.
[01:19:41.440] >> M. So he spent six months at Ohio State.
[01:19:45.440] >> Wow.
[01:19:45.920] >> Jamie.
[01:19:46.560] >> All leads back to Ohio.
[01:19:47.920] >> All roads lead to Ohio.
[01:19:48.960] >> That's a very weird thing that stands
[01:19:50.800] out to me.
[01:19:51.520] >> Boy, it just keeps coming back to Ohio.
[01:19:53.840] >> It's always there.
[01:19:55.280] >> That's his number one rabbit hole.
[01:19:56.960] >> Oh, I know. We've talked about it. We
[01:19:58.960] got right Pat there. Right Patterson Air
[01:20:01.440] Force Base. You have Battel Memorial
[01:20:03.280] Institute there. You have a lot of weird
[01:20:05.840] Epstein research.
[01:20:08.080] >> They just took his name off the uh he
[01:20:10.080] was been removed from the board or head
[01:20:12.880] of the board, chairman of the board.
[01:20:14.000] >> Who did?
[01:20:14.640] >> Uh Wexner
[01:20:16.320] >> because the Epstein stuff
[01:20:17.840] >> really at Ohio State
[01:20:19.440] >> just now.
[01:20:20.239] >> Just took a bit I mean [laughter] took a
[01:20:22.560] bit of time.
[01:20:23.760] >> I don't know who's responsible over
[01:20:25.120] there. The right pat stuff is nuts.
[01:20:27.920] Yeah,
[01:20:28.239] >> that's that's that's weird because that
[01:20:30.560] is the place when it was it was right
[01:20:32.320] air for field at the time, right? Where
[01:20:34.159] they think that they brought the Roswell
[01:20:35.920] crash to.
[01:20:36.640] >> Exactly. Yeah. 47. Yeah. And that would
[01:20:39.120] be the place where you would bring it to
[01:20:40.640] because they were reverse engineering
[01:20:42.400] German pulse jet engines, Soviet MIGs,
[01:20:45.280] that sort of thing. M
[01:20:47.520] >> and there was this rumor of a blue room
[01:20:50.159] there that actually there's a there's a
[01:20:51.840] crazy video of um Barry Goldwater who
[01:20:55.280] was a future presidential candidate
[01:20:56.800] obviously senator from Arizona and he's
[01:20:59.120] talking about Curtis Lame who's chief of
[01:21:01.040] staff of the Air Force and he's like I I
[01:21:03.360] asked Curtis Lame to show me into the
[01:21:06.080] blue room at Wright Patterson because it
[01:21:07.520] was this famous you know allegedly sort
[01:21:09.440] of alien you know storage facility and
[01:21:12.480] he goes he cussed me out of the room
[01:21:14.560] I've never seen him get or angry at me.
[01:21:18.000] >> Radio Shack outside Phoenix. The senator
[01:21:20.320] disclaims direct knowledge of UFOs, but
[01:21:22.800] he does confirm a disturbing story about
[01:21:25.600] an exchange with General Curtis Lame.
[01:21:28.800] >> Reportedly,
[01:21:30.480] a spaceship landed.
[01:21:33.760] It was all hushed up, quieted, and
[01:21:35.920] nobody ever
[01:21:38.239] heard about much of it.
[01:21:40.880] I called her this lame and I said,
[01:21:43.120] "General, uh, I know we have a room at
[01:21:47.679] right
[01:21:49.520] where you put all his secret stuff."
[01:21:53.280] >> Was the worst audio ever?
[01:21:55.760] >> I've never heard him get mad, but he got
[01:21:59.280] mad or in hell at me, cussed me out,
[01:22:02.320] said, "Don't ever ask me that question
[01:22:04.560] again."
[01:22:06.719] That's this audio by the same guy who
[01:22:08.560] did the video inside the UFO. [laughter]
[01:22:11.120] >> Exactly.
[01:22:11.679] >> They're just trying to with us.
[01:22:13.520] It's just they're trying to with
[01:22:14.960] us. That's also a really interesting
[01:22:17.280] aspect of this whole concept of uh
[01:22:21.199] whether or not consciousness is
[01:22:22.560] rendering these things. If you're if
[01:22:24.560] you're dealing with uh this reality
[01:22:27.360] that's like subtly unfolding in front of
[01:22:30.000] you, you kind of would have it a little
[01:22:33.920] funky, a little weird, a little blurry,
[01:22:37.040] a little odd, like like what better way
[01:22:40.239] to slow drip introduce it to the general
[01:22:44.960] public than to give it to you in these
[01:22:48.480] weird blurry videos. Not like some 4K
[01:22:52.000] crazy video of a mother ship
[01:22:54.639] size of a football field flying over a
[01:22:56.880] city. Undeniable. Nah. Let's give you
[01:22:59.840] some black and white night
[01:23:02.080] vision of a a a circle going in the
[01:23:04.800] ocean coming out of the ocean where
[01:23:06.400] you're like, "What is that? What am I
[01:23:07.600] looking at? What are Well, that is a
[01:23:10.159] trans medium device that is gone into
[01:23:12.719] the water without creating a splash,
[01:23:14.159] then gets out of the water and it's
[01:23:15.199] going 300 knots under the water." Like,
[01:23:17.520] what
[01:23:18.639] >> exactly? What? No,
[01:23:20.880] >> it's almost like it's like you said,
[01:23:23.360] it's meant to with us. We are the
[01:23:26.400] the end product is our belief system.
[01:23:29.440] And and Jock Valle writes about this
[01:23:31.280] concept of intermittent reinforcement
[01:23:33.040] which comes from the psychologist BF
[01:23:34.639] Skinner which is like if you give a rat
[01:23:37.440] cocaine for example and you give it
[01:23:39.360] regularly like you know on the dot every
[01:23:41.600] day or whatever it'll like you know come
[01:23:44.800] back and forth and like it'll not care
[01:23:46.560] as I mean it's cocaine so it'll probably
[01:23:48.719] want it but like if you give a rat
[01:23:50.719] cocaine intermittently randomly
[01:23:53.840] sporadically it'll freak out and just
[01:23:56.400] get obsessed. And maybe cocaine's not
[01:23:58.719] the best example, but any anything
[01:24:00.320] sweet, you know, it it will become
[01:24:02.320] obsessed with the thing because
[01:24:05.199] there's something about the
[01:24:06.400] intermittency
[01:24:07.920] that makes it special. If it's regular,
[01:24:09.920] it doesn't care. It knows it's there. It
[01:24:11.520] knows it's going to be there at all
[01:24:12.800] times.
[01:24:13.760] >> And so, I think there's something about
[01:24:15.520] the UFO phenomena where it's trickster.
[01:24:18.000] It always leaves a variable left to be
[01:24:21.280] questioned. And the end product is the
[01:24:23.360] person's obsession for truth after the
[01:24:25.920] fact.
[01:24:26.400] >> Yeah. because there's there's never
[01:24:29.440] going to be this smoking gun. It always
[01:24:31.199] has a slight stigma attached to it. The
[01:24:34.239] almost like a design feature of ufology
[01:24:37.120] itself is the fact that I've never seen
[01:24:39.520] a field where there is an this much
[01:24:42.719] evidence, but there is very little
[01:24:46.560] incontrovertible smoking gun evidence.
[01:24:49.280] There is this much there's so much
[01:24:50.880] evidence that like, you know, I had
[01:24:52.080] Michael Shurmer, you know, famous
[01:24:53.440] skeptic on my show who I know you've had
[01:24:55.679] on, you know, many times and I feel like
[01:24:57.440] I ran circles around him. Yeah.
[01:24:59.600] >> Because he's not engaging with the these
[01:25:01.199] really important data sets around UFOs
[01:25:02.800] showing up around nuclear sites and that
[01:25:04.320] sort of thing. Like you can
[01:25:06.560] >> really argue with or you can convince
[01:25:08.960] any reasonable person that there is
[01:25:10.560] something going on and then it's very
[01:25:14.080] hard to figure out exactly what. And for
[01:25:16.560] whatever reason, there's this like sort
[01:25:18.159] of mystery box smoking gun that, you
[01:25:21.120] know, maybe Bob Lazar has seen. You
[01:25:23.120] know, David Grush, I think, is this
[01:25:25.440] really fascinating person because he
[01:25:27.760] has, you know, he brought forward 40
[01:25:29.520] people who claim to have firsthand
[01:25:32.080] knowledge to the intelligence community,
[01:25:33.760] Inspector General. So, that makes him
[01:25:35.679] pretty special because he has this like
[01:25:37.280] really bird's eyee vantage point over,
[01:25:39.840] you know, from around all this stuff.
[01:25:41.440] And he's obviously he himself has an
[01:25:43.199] idetic memory. he's um you know somewhat
[01:25:46.080] on the spectrum and so which you know he
[01:25:48.080] he he talks about so he has this like
[01:25:50.239] really really kind of crazy attention to
[01:25:52.400] detail so it makes him this really
[01:25:54.320] interesting sort of person and you have
[01:25:55.920] you have things like that and then like
[01:25:58.960] I don't know if there's a saucer and a
[01:26:00.560] hanger at right Pat like you know I I'd
[01:26:03.360] love to see it it'd be awesome and and
[01:26:05.440] then you get into this sort of well you
[01:26:07.679] know if that's like a payload delivery
[01:26:09.440] system then obviously we can't see it
[01:26:11.280] because it's like this national security
[01:26:12.880] thing
[01:26:14.400] It's almost like a design feature of the
[01:26:16.880] thing itself. Like if if you were to
[01:26:18.639] tell Jacqu Ble in 1975 or you know in
[01:26:21.760] the 60s when he was Jaylen Heinik's
[01:26:23.600] assistant, hey like this is how much
[01:26:25.760] progress we've made on UFOs. I think
[01:26:29.520] from the perspective of disclosure, he
[01:26:31.600] might be pumped about the last 10 years,
[01:26:33.520] but from the perspective of like
[01:26:35.040] understanding what the they are,
[01:26:38.239] he'd be like I I like I had the best
[01:26:40.960] theory back then. I had, you know,
[01:26:42.639] really good theories back then.
[01:26:44.034] [laughter]
[01:26:44.880] >> So, so like it's it's really crazy.
[01:26:46.719] We're in the stone age on this stuff.
[01:26:48.719] Uh, actually, somebody who's like really
[01:26:50.719] up on I think he's I think he's he's
[01:26:53.760] he's responsible for a lot of modern
[01:26:55.920] disclosure, but he's like blown by a lot
[01:26:57.840] of people is Tom Dong, the 182.
[01:27:00.239] >> Crazy, right?
[01:27:01.760] >> I thought he was a loon when he came on
[01:27:03.280] my show. But more and more as time has
[01:27:05.920] gone on, the things that he said have
[01:27:07.840] been proven to be true.
[01:27:09.199] >> Totally. And now, and I don't want to
[01:27:11.600] talk too much out of turn, but like I
[01:27:14.159] because I'm I'm friends with him and he
[01:27:18.080] has some really interesting theories
[01:27:20.000] around consciousness and how like uh
[01:27:22.560] these events sort of occur when things
[01:27:24.800] are really unstable. So like either to
[01:27:28.400] uh uh discard things that are unstable
[01:27:31.120] and that are threatening to sort of the
[01:27:32.719] system all nuclear or um to save
[01:27:36.960] something that is essential to preserve
[01:27:38.560] the system. So it's like almost this
[01:27:40.080] like regulatory thing. It's really
[01:27:41.679] fascinating. It's like he's he's now
[01:27:43.600] miles ahead of you know I think where a
[01:27:46.639] lot of [laughter]
[01:27:47.840] to me I [clears throat] was always like
[01:27:48.960] okay why are they bringing Tom Deong in
[01:27:52.400] to have conversations and now you know
[01:27:55.040] like like he was being sort of briefed
[01:27:59.600] by very high level intelligence people
[01:28:02.159] right.
[01:28:02.560] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that that whole
[01:28:04.080] story of the to the stars academy is a
[01:28:06.719] strange interesting.
[01:28:08.239] >> It's all weird. It's it's also
[01:28:10.080] weird that you would get the
[01:28:11.280] drummer or the what what did he do in
[01:28:12.960] Blink182?
[01:28:13.600] >> I think he was the front man. I think
[01:28:14.719] >> front man. Yeah, not the drummer. That
[01:28:16.320] was Travis obviously. Uh like that you
[01:28:18.800] get a guy who's a a big time rock star.
[01:28:22.560] He was obsessed his entire life and I
[01:28:26.480] think so. Yeah, I think he was
[01:28:28.480] surrounded by some very interesting
[01:28:30.320] people and in certain cases not so
[01:28:32.080] savory people to be [laughter]
[01:28:33.520] >> really.
[01:28:34.480] >> Yeah. Or just people who are associated
[01:28:37.520] with sort of
[01:28:38.080] >> disinformation.
[01:28:39.360] >> Yeah. Or like you know James Clapper who
[01:28:42.320] like you know probably lied in front of
[01:28:45.040] Congress about wiretapping. So like why
[01:28:46.880] should we trust on the UFO stuff you
[01:28:49.120] know? Um, and I'm not saying that, you
[01:28:51.440] know, Tom was necessarily I don't know
[01:28:53.440] who who exactly he was in touch with,
[01:28:55.040] but I think it was like that crowd of,
[01:28:57.120] you know, people. Um, but I think people
[01:28:59.600] what people don't understand and this is
[01:29:01.440] what I pieced together from just knowing
[01:29:02.960] him. I think he has sort of vigilante
[01:29:07.040] gotten in touch with a lot like a lot of
[01:29:08.639] these people like shut the door in his
[01:29:10.000] face and he's like, "No, I'll fly out
[01:29:11.440] there and I'll do anything and like I'll
[01:29:13.199] I'll help like communicate this way. I
[01:29:15.040] know you guys have been trying to
[01:29:16.080] communicate this forever to the to the
[01:29:17.920] public and like maybe I can help or
[01:29:19.679] whatever. And I think a lot of it just
[01:29:21.360] stemmed from his desire to know and his
[01:29:23.360] like true passion for this that started
[01:29:25.040] from when he was a kid and that was like
[01:29:26.639] super organic.
[01:29:27.840] >> But you also have to think like if you
[01:29:29.600] wanted to get a narrative out there,
[01:29:31.040] what better way than get a really famous
[01:29:32.719] rock star
[01:29:33.760] >> and [laughter] feed him some horit.
[01:29:36.480] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's possible. Yeah.
[01:29:38.080] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
[01:29:39.199] >> Yeah. But also if you read secret
[01:29:41.520] machines I think there's a lot then
[01:29:43.120] that's you know he's written some books
[01:29:45.120] actually and if you read the books
[01:29:47.440] there's some really interesting things
[01:29:49.920] kind of hidden in plain sight that end
[01:29:51.440] up getting corroborated in my own open
[01:29:53.120] source research. So I'll give you an
[01:29:54.400] example. He says that uh a UFO possibly
[01:29:57.840] came out of the sky during a high
[01:29:59.920] altitude nuclear test in the Marshall
[01:30:01.760] Islands in the early 60s. So these are
[01:30:04.080] these famous you know Bikini ATL
[01:30:06.000] Johnston ATL you know operation Dominic
[01:30:08.639] tests and it's I think it was he called
[01:30:10.400] it yeah during the Starfish Prime series
[01:30:12.400] and I thought that you know that was
[01:30:15.440] nuts like what are you talking like a
[01:30:16.800] UFO came out of the plume? I know they
[01:30:18.320] show up around nuclear sites but really
[01:30:19.840] did the UFO come out of the plume? So I
[01:30:21.679] end up interviewing this guy. He's a
[01:30:23.440] presidential adviser to JFK, LBJ, Nixon,
[01:30:27.199] and Ford. And he is 89 years old,
[01:30:31.679] completely like sharp as attack, like
[01:30:33.920] with it, and just has this elite kind of
[01:30:37.520] macro kind of p, you know, exact picture
[01:30:39.920] of the world in his head. I think he
[01:30:41.199] worked closely with Kissinger and like
[01:30:43.120] just really knew his sort of stuff when
[01:30:45.199] it came to just prosaic conventional
[01:30:46.880] political trends, you know, outside of
[01:30:48.639] UFO stuff. And uh he had been tweeting
[01:30:52.239] some interesting things about UFOs and
[01:30:54.560] then he starts going into this story and
[01:30:56.560] I'm like what? Like so basically he goes
[01:30:59.199] I was in charge of the cost assessment
[01:31:02.000] for one of these high altitude nuclear
[01:31:04.080] tests. It's the it's called the bluegill
[01:31:06.239] triple prime test part of the starfish
[01:31:08.480] prime series in 1962 in October actually
[01:31:11.440] during the Cuban missile crisis was
[01:31:13.040] October 25th. And he goes we didn't have
[01:31:16.159] any way to defend against Soviet ICBMs
[01:31:18.480] at the time. So we
[01:31:20.639] >> Exactly.
[01:31:21.120] >> This is a gift plan. I can't control the
[01:31:22.480] video. So I was trying to listen.
[01:31:23.440] >> So this is this is the video of the test
[01:31:25.920] and that white triangle was superimposed
[01:31:29.040] on and there that's the UFO falling out
[01:31:32.000] of the plume which is insane.
[01:31:35.440] >> So explain it again.
[01:31:36.880] >> Okay. So So basically
[01:31:37.920] >> what's falling out of the plume?
[01:31:39.440] >> A possible UFO object. Yeah. That thing.
[01:31:41.760] >> Well, you know about the the images that
[01:31:45.520] were were taken. What you know those
[01:31:48.880] what what is the um the method that was
[01:31:51.360] used where they uh observed reflective
[01:31:55.760] things in the sky from what was it was
[01:32:00.400] it radar or what do you know what I'm
[01:32:02.960] talking about Jamie we've discussed this
[01:32:04.400] before like they have uh photographs of
[01:32:07.040] the sky they have some sort of an a an
[01:32:10.800] image of the sky from the 1960s
[01:32:13.920] and they showed that there were multiple
[01:32:16.320] things that were metallic that were
[01:32:19.120] >> I think you might you might be talking
[01:32:20.400] about Beatatric Val this Stockholm
[01:32:22.800] University astrophysicist she's amazing
[01:32:25.920] so I'll get back to this in a second but
[01:32:28.239] but she
[01:32:29.920] >> basically has these uh astronomical
[01:32:32.400] plates from the Palomar Observatory
[01:32:34.000] which is Palomar Observatory was the
[01:32:36.080] most prominent observatory in use at the
[01:32:38.400] time and she has these transients that
[01:32:40.560] she's she's gotten on these uh
[01:32:42.480] astronomical plates the plates have
[01:32:44.159] basically this uh emulsion that's
[01:32:46.639] sensitive to light. So that you know uh
[01:32:49.360] basically when light goes through you
[01:32:51.679] know the the optical circuitry of the te
[01:32:53.920] telescope and then it hits the plate you
[01:32:55.920] see like stars and planets and all sorts
[01:32:57.920] of things. you have a record of what's
[01:32:59.520] in the sky, right? And she saw all
[01:33:02.400] 105,000
[01:33:03.920] what she calls transients, which are
[01:33:06.159] light reflecting mirror like objects
[01:33:09.360] probably in geostationary orbit, which
[01:33:11.600] is where I think we see a lot of UFOs.
[01:33:14.320] And this is before Sputnik, before a man
[01:33:17.199] made satellite was ever in space. This
[01:33:19.199] is from 1949 to 1957. It gets crazier
[01:33:23.199] because a PhD from um Vanderbilt
[01:33:26.400] University named Steven Bruwell then
[01:33:28.800] correlated those transients. They show
[01:33:30.880] up more around nuclear detonations,
[01:33:33.280] nuclear tests. It's wild,
[01:33:35.440] >> right?
[01:33:36.239] >> And you have people like Brian Keading
[01:33:38.400] and you know Sabina Hosenfelder who are
[01:33:40.880] like conventional physicists who are
[01:33:42.480] talking about this now who are like yeah
[01:33:44.480] we don't really have a perfect debunk on
[01:33:46.639] this. Some people have thrown cosmic
[01:33:48.480] rays at it. Some people have said, you
[01:33:50.320] know, um uh yeah, solar rays, but
[01:33:52.719] neither of those make any sense. And
[01:33:54.480] then then there's a a former NASA um
[01:33:58.159] astronomer named Ivo Busco who showed
[01:34:01.360] that some of these transits have uh
[01:34:03.280] they're called it's called a coma, which
[01:34:05.120] is like a little kind of looks like a
[01:34:07.040] little comet tail on the transient and
[01:34:09.440] that gets created by the optical
[01:34:12.000] circuitry of the telescope itself. So
[01:34:14.480] the number one debunk on Beatatric was
[01:34:16.480] that these transients were artifacts of
[01:34:19.280] chemical staining and like issues. They
[01:34:21.760] call them plate defects. And Ivobusco is
[01:34:24.960] basically saying no the light is going
[01:34:27.040] through the telescope. It's going
[01:34:29.040] through the telescope. So it has to be
[01:34:30.320] an artifact of something outside of the
[01:34:32.719] telescope. So you you're left with one
[01:34:35.040] conclusion which is UFOs. And then you
[01:34:37.360] get into the fact that NASA has what are
[01:34:40.159] called like uncorrelated targets all the
[01:34:42.239] time. like there's noise in the sk there
[01:34:44.000] are transients that are detected all the
[01:34:45.920] time in the sky and we just sort of rule
[01:34:48.159] it out all the time. So it's it's a it's
[01:34:50.800] really crazy and it's I think it's very
[01:34:53.199] hard to debunk and if she figures if she
[01:34:56.000] proves this to be true this is a not
[01:34:58.639] only capernac level discovery. It is
[01:35:01.280] greater than that. It is it is a wild
[01:35:03.679] wild discovery. And I have I don't know
[01:35:06.560] I don't want to say I'm like you know
[01:35:08.239] 100% sure it's legit. It's, you know,
[01:35:10.400] it's a little beyond my pay grade when
[01:35:11.760] it comes to the science, but I have not
[01:35:13.199] heard one good debunk on it. Not one.
[01:35:16.719] >> Whoa.
[01:35:17.440] >> Yeah, he would love talking to her.
[01:35:18.960] >> It's also um there's some speculation
[01:35:21.280] about some of these things falling from
[01:35:23.280] the sky that they took place because of
[01:35:26.239] these high altitude nuclear tests.
[01:35:28.480] >> So that's what this bluegill triple
[01:35:30.400] prime test. So this is an example. So
[01:35:32.080] Tom Dong wrote about this Starfish Prime
[01:35:34.320] test and secret machines and a lot of
[01:35:36.159] this stuff is sort of you know codes
[01:35:38.480] hidden in plain sight and he had amazing
[01:35:40.480] sources. I mean one of his sources is
[01:35:42.000] this general who's now missing uh
[01:35:44.639] William Neil McCasslin who was in charge
[01:35:47.280] of the entire special access program
[01:35:49.199] oversight committee. And what he told
[01:35:51.280] Tom is he goes uh you want to know about
[01:35:54.159] the UFO issue? All you're going to find
[01:35:55.760] are a bunch of blind men touching
[01:35:57.600] different parts of an elephant. which is
[01:35:59.760] I think [laughter] the whole fallacy of
[01:36:01.520] modern UFO disclosure. It's not like
[01:36:03.920] there's this line in the sand. Oh,
[01:36:05.600] here's the truth. We're going to give it
[01:36:06.880] to you. It's like, oh, we have this
[01:36:08.560] program here and this program here and
[01:36:10.000] we're testing this stuff, but we don't
[01:36:11.360] really understand what it is and it's
[01:36:12.880] kind of confusing. And so, okay. So, so
[01:36:15.360] Dong writes about the Starfish Prime,
[01:36:17.840] you know, test, right, where this UFO
[01:36:19.679] comes out of the plume. I interview this
[01:36:21.360] guy Harold Malgrim who is well known in
[01:36:23.280] DC circles as this like elite statesman
[01:36:25.520] outside of UFOs like just kind of
[01:36:28.159] renowned good you know very impressive
[01:36:30.239] reputation. He discusses being in charge
[01:36:33.760] of cost assessments for this specific
[01:36:36.400] starfish prime test called the bluegill
[01:36:38.639] triple prime test where you put uh this
[01:36:41.520] X-ray device within the nose cone of a
[01:36:44.480] Thorx1 missile and it's specifically so
[01:36:47.440] that when you know uh the nucle the nuke
[01:36:50.480] detonates the X-ray blast then can take
[01:36:52.960] out any surrounding ICBM. So it's it's
[01:36:55.760] there was no way to guard against Soviet
[01:36:57.199] ICBMs. This was the way to do it. He
[01:37:00.880] said in my interview with him that in
[01:37:02.719] fact uh all along, you know, this this
[01:37:06.880] may have been this sort of ploy to take
[01:37:08.880] out UFOs as well. His his mentor, by the
[01:37:12.239] way, is Richard Bissell, who uh was the
[01:37:14.639] number two in the entire CIA and founded
[01:37:16.320] Area 51. And yeah, wild.
[01:37:19.360] >> Whoa.
[01:37:19.840] >> Yeah. And so he is in charge of the cost
[01:37:22.400] assessment for this thing. He says that
[01:37:24.239] there there's this he gets briefed on it
[01:37:26.400] and he finds out that this object comes
[01:37:28.560] out of the plume of this thing. And he
[01:37:30.080] goes, "What is going on?" He goes, "I
[01:37:31.840] want access to that this thing." And he
[01:37:34.400] gets like I think kind of stonewalled a
[01:37:36.239] little bit. He ends up at the Sandia
[01:37:38.560] complex in New Mexico, one of these
[01:37:40.480] national labs. And Lawrence Preston
[01:37:42.880] Gist, who found went on to found DARPA
[01:37:45.520] and is Jeff Bezos's maternal
[01:37:47.600] grandfather,
[01:37:49.119] hands him pieces of the UFO. And he and
[01:37:52.480] he says and very sadly he passed away a
[01:37:55.520] few weeks after I interviewed him. So
[01:37:57.520] there's so much more of you know we
[01:37:59.920] wanted to learn and know about you know
[01:38:01.840] about this testimony. But he says he
[01:38:03.280] held the pieces of the UFO in his hand.
[01:38:06.400] And there's a Freedom of Information Act
[01:38:08.719] request around the Starfish Prime series
[01:38:10.880] saying I want all records from uh the
[01:38:13.440] Starfish Prime series on UAVs, UFOs,
[01:38:15.920] UAPs, every acronym related to UFOs. And
[01:38:20.560] uh uh uh uh they the National Nuclear
[01:38:23.760] Security Administration gets back and
[01:38:25.520] they say uh you know the responsive
[01:38:28.400] records that you asked for uh uh you
[01:38:31.280] know we we referred them to the to the
[01:38:32.880] right subject matter expert implying
[01:38:34.960] that there are responsive records that
[01:38:36.800] there are records [laughter] from the
[01:38:39.199] National Nuclear Security Administration
[01:38:41.440] which guards all nuclear secrets around
[01:38:43.760] UFOs at the time. There's also a guy
[01:38:46.080] named David Noble White Crow who I think
[01:38:48.719] it was a different Starfish Prime test
[01:38:50.719] claimed to see a UFO like on his Navy
[01:38:53.679] ship. Um there's a guy named Bob Jacobs
[01:38:56.960] uh who who I've interviewed who's a
[01:38:58.560] photo instrumentation specialist who
[01:39:00.239] says that um there were rumors of an
[01:39:03.040] object having fallen fallen, you know,
[01:39:05.440] down from the sky. In fact, if you look
[01:39:07.119] at the Navy deck logs, I just
[01:39:08.639] interviewed the um Navy's uh former
[01:39:11.199] chief oceanographer named a guy named
[01:39:13.600] Tim Galedet. He is as well versed in
[01:39:17.679] Navy deck logs as anybody and as you
[01:39:19.520] know credentialed and qualified to read
[01:39:21.520] them as anybody. And he says that these
[01:39:23.840] look very anomalous and weird and like
[01:39:25.840] they retrieved something. And I think
[01:39:27.679] there was an outage on one of the ships
[01:39:29.679] and there was an admiral named Admiral
[01:39:31.520] Starbird who was named I guess he was
[01:39:33.280] the senior officer present of float who
[01:39:35.440] flew in a in a huff at 4:00 a.m. once
[01:39:38.719] this thing was retrieved. He he flew at
[01:39:40.400] 4 a.m. back state side.
[01:39:42.880] >> So this is a much better video of it. So
[01:39:45.360] there so there are two vantage points
[01:39:47.440] and both were EG&G planes and EG comes
[01:39:50.080] up all over nuclear sort of stuff and um
[01:39:53.040] kettle one and kettle 2 kettle 2 and
[01:39:56.080] there's a actually an Australian
[01:39:57.360] intelligence analyst named Jeff Krushank
[01:39:59.360] who does an amazing analysis of all this
[01:40:01.280] stuff and he calls this the kettle one
[01:40:03.840] footage where you can see the UFO coming
[01:40:05.679] out and the kettle 2 footage is this it
[01:40:09.119] looks exactly like that footage but
[01:40:10.480] there's a white triangle over the object
[01:40:13.199] coming out and some People are like,
[01:40:15.280] "Oh, it's an emulsion defect. It's what,
[01:40:17.520] you know, whatever." He he went to he he
[01:40:20.400] asked for a mandatory uh uh
[01:40:22.800] declassification review of this thing.
[01:40:24.480] And I think the guy in charge of it was
[01:40:25.679] a guy named Byron Wristvet. And that guy
[01:40:28.400] goes, "We lost the we lost the video. We
[01:40:31.679] lost the video." So, it's either an
[01:40:33.760] emulsion defect or you lost the video,
[01:40:35.520] but like you have multiple stories. It's
[01:40:37.520] just like Roswell where it's like you
[01:40:39.360] have it's either crash dummies or it's a
[01:40:42.000] weather balloon or it's just a you know
[01:40:44.239] or it's project mogul high altitude
[01:40:46.000] radar balloon. you have three different
[01:40:47.600] stories or it's just aliens,
[01:40:49.649] [laughter] you know, or something, you
[01:40:51.360] know? So, it's really crazy. And and and
[01:40:54.800] his Wikipedia was completely changed and
[01:40:58.000] destroyed the day the day after. It was
[01:41:00.719] it was totally messed up. And this this
[01:41:02.159] hit piece was written about him. And it
[01:41:04.320] was it it was it was actually after he
[01:41:06.320] died. So, it was really up
[01:41:07.760] because it was like kicking this guy
[01:41:10.159] after he passed away. And it I think it
[01:41:12.400] was such an amazing courageous testimony
[01:41:14.800] that I I think will stand the test of
[01:41:16.639] time.
[01:41:17.119] >> Why do you think they attacked him? Just
[01:41:18.639] to try to dismiss whatever he was saying
[01:41:21.040] >> to throw mud on it. I think a lot of um
[01:41:24.000] counter intel in the space is not
[01:41:26.560] necessarily trying to shut down
[01:41:28.239] conversation entirely, but it's throwing
[01:41:30.560] mud on it. It's keeping it in this
[01:41:32.320] liinal space of like I don't know it
[01:41:34.239] could have happened but and so they call
[01:41:35.920] they moved him from presidential adviser
[01:41:38.159] to Japanese whailing lobbyist because he
[01:41:41.440] worked with every prime minister in
[01:41:42.719] Japan since Takana in the '7s and so
[01:41:45.520] they and and down to Shinszo AB and
[01:41:48.960] they're calling him like there was some
[01:41:51.119] scandal or something and like that that
[01:41:52.960] was what they were identifying him with
[01:41:54.639] was this whailing lob. It's so crazy.
[01:41:58.239] >> God so good at that.
[01:42:01.199] They're so good at throwing mud on
[01:42:02.960] things.
[01:42:03.679] >> It's so crazy. And it was infuriating to
[01:42:05.840] be on. It was really upset because
[01:42:08.560] here was a guy who he just pattern
[01:42:10.560] matched to this like really, you know,
[01:42:13.040] brilliant guy. And he had all these
[01:42:14.880] other amazing things to say about global
[01:42:16.960] macro politics, JFK's assassination, all
[01:42:20.239] these interesting things. And you're
[01:42:22.960] just like kind of really, you know,
[01:42:25.679] messing with his legacy or you're
[01:42:27.119] kicking him when he's when he after he
[01:42:28.800] passed away. Hey, it's up.
[01:42:30.560] >> It is up, but that is what they
[01:42:32.320] do.
[01:42:32.880] >> You know, what is your take on Whitley
[01:42:35.600] Striber? [laughter]
[01:42:38.080] >> I think I love Whitley as a person and I
[01:42:42.880] think he his again, it's probably one of
[01:42:46.400] those things where in upstate New York,
[01:42:48.000] you know, as he describes in communion,
[01:42:50.320] something probably happened. He probably
[01:42:52.639] is one of these people who like you know
[01:42:54.719] if if we are nodes of consciousness that
[01:42:56.880] attract you know either very normal
[01:42:58.880] things or weird things based on our
[01:43:00.480] aperture and our sort of understanding
[01:43:02.239] of reality his is wide open you know he
[01:43:05.679] is he is extremely high in the openness
[01:43:08.000] category and I think
[01:43:10.159] >> that's where things get kind of sticky
[01:43:11.920] with some of these sort of super
[01:43:13.440] experiencers because I think they are
[01:43:16.320] often very credulous but that goes
[01:43:18.960] handinhand with having a lot of weird
[01:43:21.840] experiences. And so I think Whitley's
[01:43:24.800] gotten stuff wrong. I I do. Um and you
[01:43:29.199] know, hopefully don't come down on me,
[01:43:30.880] UFO community, for for saying that. I
[01:43:32.639] think he's I think he has um said some
[01:43:35.280] wacky things that I'm like
[01:43:36.719] >> like what?
[01:43:37.520] >> I don't Well, we talked about one of
[01:43:39.600] them. I don't know if you remember that.
[01:43:41.040] >> Which one was it?
[01:43:41.920] >> It was like he said that there was a fly
[01:43:43.760] that
[01:43:44.159] >> Yeah, I remember that one.
[01:43:45.440] >> Yeah, I brought that one up before
[01:43:46.800] because I remember watching a video. I'm
[01:43:48.320] like, "Okay, what are you doing?" Cuz
[01:43:50.400] there was a fly. He's like, "Is that a
[01:43:51.760] man in a suit?"
[01:43:53.119] >> I remember that. I was like, "Wait, I
[01:43:54.639] can't find that video." By the way, I've
[01:43:56.400] tried very hard to find that video after
[01:43:58.880] the fact.
[01:43:59.840] >> I I think very strange stuff does go on.
[01:44:02.639] You know what he says? He says, "I was
[01:44:04.320] picked as a node for disclosure because
[01:44:06.560] of the plot." It would be plausibly
[01:44:08.400] deniable. It's what you're talking about
[01:44:10.159] where there's there is he's this hor he
[01:44:12.320] was this horror writer. He was a fiction
[01:44:14.000] writer before he had his encounter
[01:44:15.920] >> which is also part of the problem.
[01:44:17.920] Incredible imagination
[01:44:19.360] >> for sure. And then it's also part of his
[01:44:21.119] ability to decide it's why communion was
[01:44:22.960] a bestseller. So it's this weird like it
[01:44:25.280] creates this like sort of cultlike
[01:44:26.880] mythology. And then I look I know a lot
[01:44:30.080] of experiencers where I'm like I I know
[01:44:31.920] that I mean I really believe them that
[01:44:33.440] they've had experiences with you know
[01:44:35.119] grays specifically and it's a very
[01:44:37.280] common trope that they'll walk by
[01:44:39.440] communion in like a Barnes & Noble
[01:44:41.440] bookstore and it'll freak them out and
[01:44:43.600] that will be like their own hypnotic
[01:44:45.440] regression. They'll be like, "Oh," like
[01:44:47.520] they've never seen a gray before. And
[01:44:48.960] that's the first time they've seen a
[01:44:50.239] gray.
[01:44:50.719] >> Yeah. The cover of the book is amazing.
[01:44:52.880] >> It's amazing.
[01:44:53.920] >> Who else had a book called Communion?
[01:44:55.600] Remember we had them on and we were
[01:44:56.960] like, "Do you know that your book is the
[01:44:59.119] same title as a Whitley Striber book,
[01:45:01.119] but it's completely different." Who
[01:45:02.480] remember that, Jamie? Someone like
[01:45:04.800] fairly recently.
[01:45:06.960] We We have too many people on this
[01:45:08.320] show. [laughter] My hard drive's
[01:45:10.000] cooked.
[01:45:10.320] >> Yeah. JD Fans.
[01:45:11.280] >> JD Vans. That's right. Oh, he had a book
[01:45:14.080] called while simultaneously calling
[01:45:16.719] aliens possibly demons.
[01:45:18.639] >> Yeah.
[01:45:18.880] >> Yeah. He didn't really have a good
[01:45:19.920] explanation for that. I pressed him on
[01:45:21.440] that
[01:45:21.760] >> and he kind of laughed very
[01:45:22.880] uncomfortably cuz he didn't know what to
[01:45:24.880] say.
[01:45:25.360] >> I I think with all due respect to Mr.
[01:45:29.119] Vance, who I really like as a person, I
[01:45:31.440] think he's a very nice guy. Uh
[01:45:35.119] I think he's signaling to the tribe
[01:45:37.760] >> it it is it's a political palemic.
[01:45:40.239] You're not looking at the data like he
[01:45:42.480] says, I want to look into the UFO issue.
[01:45:44.080] I just haven't had the time. I actually
[01:45:45.440] understand that there's a lot going on
[01:45:47.040] in the world, you know, but it's also
[01:45:49.199] you've had some time. So maybe, you
[01:45:50.960] know, go look into it. But
[01:45:52.639] >> I kind of understand it, but kind of
[01:45:54.480] don't.
[01:45:54.880] >> I'm with you. I'm I be the first
[01:45:56.880] >> plenty of time to go to church. Like
[01:45:58.480] listen, bro, look into it.
[01:46:00.480] >> Look into it. Exactly.
[01:46:02.239] >> To quote Eddie Bravo, look into
[01:46:04.053] [laughter] it. It's um weird that you
[01:46:06.800] would say it's demons, but I think that
[01:46:09.679] much like Tucker Carlson has sort of
[01:46:11.840] alluded to this as well. I think there's
[01:46:14.239] a certain aspect to people that are
[01:46:16.320] believers, right? Okay. Okay, when I say
[01:46:18.239] believers, I'm talking about like
[01:46:19.920] Christian believers, believers in the
[01:46:22.239] Bible, believer believers in the the
[01:46:26.080] narrative that comes along with
[01:46:28.000] Christianity, you know, and that for
[01:46:30.719] them there's like if you say I believe
[01:46:33.199] they're demons, like he's on our side.
[01:46:35.360] There's, you know, there's a there's you
[01:46:37.119] will you will attract those people, they
[01:46:40.000] will re that will resonate with certain
[01:46:42.480] people. And I do think very
[01:46:44.960] unfortunately that there are politicians
[01:46:47.040] that say things, we both know this, that
[01:46:50.400] they don't necessarily believe because
[01:46:52.480] they think that their base wants to hear
[01:46:54.239] it.
[01:46:54.800] >> Totally. Yeah. You're you're a
[01:46:56.560] traditionalist. You're like, why, you
[01:46:58.960] know, why do we have to deal with this
[01:47:00.320] newagy You know, it's it's
[01:47:02.480] just, you know, go back to the scripture
[01:47:04.239] and they're demons.
[01:47:05.840] >> Oh, I like it. I like how this guy's
[01:47:08.080] talking.
[01:47:08.560] >> Exa Exactly. And it's a it ends the
[01:47:11.040] conversation because then it's like,
[01:47:13.040] okay, but if there are demons, there are
[01:47:14.480] angels, too. And what is a demon? And
[01:47:17.119] what is an angel?
[01:47:18.480] >> Also, where's the evidence that these
[01:47:20.480] demons are doing anything demonic?
[01:47:23.199] Well, here's where it gets interesting,
[01:47:25.040] which is if you actually talk to a Jacqu
[01:47:27.040] Valet, who I do think is probably as
[01:47:29.679] deep as anybody as far as decades
[01:47:31.679] studying the stuff, going to, you know,
[01:47:33.520] 100 plus crash sites, talking to
[01:47:35.520] probably thousands of experiencers. And
[01:47:38.239] he'll often say, you know, some of this
[01:47:41.199] stuff does pattern match to demonic
[01:47:43.840] behavior where it is sort of this, you
[01:47:46.400] know, getting you to chase your tail.
[01:47:48.239] It's, you know, they it's paralyzing
[01:47:50.400] you. You know, in some cases it's sort
[01:47:52.320] of, you know, angelic as well. In the
[01:47:53.920] case of, you know, Mario and Michael,
[01:47:55.119] it's they say, "Do not fear. Do not
[01:47:56.800] fear." That's exactly what Daniel and
[01:47:58.800] the Bible heard, you know, on the banks
[01:48:00.239] of the Tigris. Do not fear is is is if
[01:48:02.880] if the Bible if if the angels in the
[01:48:05.199] Bible have like a, you know, a
[01:48:06.480] catchphrase, it's do not fear. And so he
[01:48:09.199] actually notes that there are some
[01:48:10.639] similarities. So I think the there are
[01:48:12.480] two failure modes, right? It's the end
[01:48:14.560] the conversation like, you know, I'm
[01:48:16.719] religious, I don't want to hear it sort
[01:48:18.080] of thing. And then on the other side,
[01:48:20.080] it's like you can't even look at the
[01:48:22.880] Bible as data or like any past mythology
[01:48:25.920] or lore as possibly overlapping with,
[01:48:28.960] you know, sulfur and ammonia seem to be
[01:48:31.520] the smell. Sulfur is a you know, so you
[01:48:33.600] know what that being, you know, at
[01:48:35.520] Virginia, you know, where uh that thing
[01:48:38.400] crawling around that probably would have
[01:48:40.000] been called a demon like a thousand
[01:48:41.679] 2,000 years ago. There's a reason.
[01:48:43.280] >> That's when you look at it. It was like
[01:48:44.880] a weird color body with red eyes and it
[01:48:48.239] looked like it had like these tiny
[01:48:49.679] little horns.
[01:48:50.480] >> Totally. By the way, I just interviewed
[01:48:52.639] the Brazilian the former Brazilian
[01:48:54.239] defense minister and I brought up
[01:48:55.760] Virginia and he goes, "I believe it
[01:48:57.440] happened." [laughter]
[01:48:58.960] >> Whoa.
[01:48:59.600] >> Yeah.
[01:49:00.800] >> Whoa.
[01:49:01.360] >> So, we're making progress.
[01:49:04.180] [laughter]
[01:49:04.719] >> Allegedly.
[01:49:05.840] >> Allegedly.
[01:49:07.360] >> Yeah. Well, then there's also the guy
[01:49:08.880] who was physically in contact with it
[01:49:10.560] that died.
[01:49:12.239] >> The guy Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly.
[01:49:14.480] Yeah. James Fox, you watch Moment of
[01:49:16.320] Contact if you want to know what we're
[01:49:17.600] we're talking about. Basically, you have
[01:49:19.199] 15 to 20 people alive today in this
[01:49:22.719] small town in Virginia, 130,000, you
[01:49:25.119] know, person town. And they knew nothing
[01:49:27.520] about Roswell, UFOs, you know, they're
[01:49:30.159] this town in Brazil. And in 1996, in
[01:49:33.520] January,
[01:49:35.040] James Fox, this amazing researcher,
[01:49:37.040] documentarian, has triangulated the
[01:49:38.960] flight path of this kind of tic-tac
[01:49:41.920] object that came down. This uh uh this
[01:49:46.080] ultralight pilot and geography teacher
[01:49:47.920] named Carlos Doza was first on the
[01:49:50.480] scene. He smells all, you know, these
[01:49:52.159] sort of weird sulfur ammonia smell. He
[01:49:54.960] actually holds the material apparently
[01:49:56.960] and then it's it's taken from him by I
[01:49:59.280] guess Issa is this you know nearby
[01:50:01.040] military base. 15 minutes later he has
[01:50:03.679] this sort of Men in Black experience
[01:50:06.239] where somebody comes up to him at a gas
[01:50:08.880] station seems to know everything about
[01:50:10.320] him and his family and swears him to
[01:50:12.320] secrecy. Meanwhile, the beings are
[01:50:14.560] running around this town and the beings
[01:50:17.040] end up in this hospital, Regionalis
[01:50:18.960] Hospital, and this uh uh neurosurgeon
[01:50:22.639] who I've met and interviewed who was the
[01:50:25.040] chief neurosurgeon basically like
[01:50:26.719] probably the most senior guy in
[01:50:27.920] Virginia, but I think even senior, you
[01:50:29.600] know, in Brazil as far as, you know,
[01:50:31.520] neurosurgeons go. Uh he uh says that he
[01:50:35.600] he treated this being and that or I
[01:50:38.800] guess he he was face tof face with the
[01:50:40.560] being for 4 minutes and he was checking
[01:50:42.719] the work of this of his colleague who
[01:50:45.440] had treated the being who had done this
[01:50:47.280] like minor surgery on the being. And
[01:50:48.880] apparently if you go to this hospital
[01:50:50.719] and you say like hey uh you know is this
[01:50:53.760] the being where the ET was treated?
[01:50:55.040] They'll be like yeah yeah this is it.
[01:50:56.400] And and Virginia itself has a big
[01:50:58.639] saucer. Yeah.
[01:50:59.760] >> You know that in homage to this entire
[01:51:01.760] event. It's amazing.
[01:51:02.719] >> Well, that's what's up.
[01:51:03.920] >> I was just I hate I hate doing this, but
[01:51:06.000] >> please do.
[01:51:06.560] >> I just was looking up like, you know, uh
[01:51:08.560] Perplexity I asked Virginia UFO incident
[01:51:10.880] debunked or not. Never have done
[01:51:12.561] [clears throat] that before and I've
[01:51:13.840] never heard this brought up. Uh this is
[01:51:17.199] a known guy. His name is Mudinho
[01:51:21.440] from that area and he is in the exact
[01:51:24.400] same position as the alien picture.
[01:51:28.080] >> Yeah. Weird.
[01:51:29.520] >> Yeah. But if you if you treated that guy
[01:51:32.000] for [laughter] a head wound, you would
[01:51:33.760] you would know that he's
[01:51:36.000] >> and does he smell like sulfur?
[01:51:37.360] >> Man with disabilities who reportedly
[01:51:38.960] seen crouching in heavy rain that they
[01:51:41.199] did a 600page inquiry
[01:51:43.760] dirty or unusual military
[01:51:46.080] >> could he have flown in on a craft with
[01:51:49.242] [clears throat]
[01:51:49.760] >> was he so stinky that when the the
[01:51:52.239] officer brought him into the hospital,
[01:51:54.000] the guy died of a bacterial infection
[01:51:55.920] they couldn't treat.
[01:51:56.960] >> That's the crazy thing. Then there's
[01:51:58.400] this guy Marco Sherezy who's the soldier
[01:52:00.400] that [snorts] grabbed the ET being and
[01:52:02.560] apprehended it and his whole family
[01:52:04.080] knows about this and then he gets an
[01:52:05.920] autopsy. I I interviewed the guy who did
[01:52:08.239] the autopsy and he was like this was
[01:52:10.880] like this gnarly form of this bacteria
[01:52:12.880] that I've never seen in my life and the
[01:52:14.880] guy who's president of ITB IPD which is
[01:52:18.400] the company that does the autopsy
[01:52:20.480] report. He even said, "Yeah, I think it
[01:52:22.800] was from the nail of the ET
[01:52:24.800] accidentally." You know, the the being
[01:52:26.400] didn't mean any harm to this guy, but
[01:52:28.639] there was a puncture wound and it
[01:52:30.560] created this horrible, you know, viral
[01:52:32.719] infection and he or bacterial infection
[01:52:35.040] and he died of that. So crazy.
[01:52:38.080] >> Yeah.
[01:52:40.159] What [laughter]
[01:52:41.840] I know
[01:52:43.520] it's so nuts. But I mean,
[01:52:44.800] >> the Virginia one is really crazy.
[01:52:46.400] >> It's really crazy. It's like there's so
[01:52:48.000] many people that But then the problem is
[01:52:49.840] like I would love to have talked to them
[01:52:52.480] in 1996 individually without them
[01:52:55.520] knowing that this was going to be a
[01:52:57.280] global story and when they when they can
[01:52:59.119] all sync up their memories.
[01:53:01.040] >> I know. I know. And I'm praying that we
[01:53:03.280] get a case like that, you know, at some
[01:53:05.920] point where in it look, it's better than
[01:53:07.840] Roswell 1947. You know, we're really
[01:53:10.719] reading the tea leaves on that. So it's
[01:53:12.639] 1996. You have 15 to 20 people alive who
[01:53:15.040] have either either saw the craft or the
[01:53:17.440] being. That's pretty amazing.
[01:53:19.199] >> Those young ladies there, there were
[01:53:20.960] girls at the time and then when they get
[01:53:23.280] interviewed later when they're grown
[01:53:24.960] women and they're talking about the
[01:53:26.560] incident, it's very strange. But I think
[01:53:28.400] the strangest one is the cop who goes to
[01:53:30.320] the scene of the crash and he starts
[01:53:31.440] weeping and he starts like really I'm
[01:53:33.360] like okay well either this cop is the
[01:53:35.199] best actor that's never been in a movie
[01:53:37.679] ever or he's having a real response to
[01:53:40.239] some sort of crazy memory of an event
[01:53:42.080] >> that was Carlos Dza the geography
[01:53:44.000] teacher and he led them around to your
[01:53:47.040] point for two hours or something before
[01:53:49.679] finding that spot and I I think if you
[01:53:51.920] were acting you'd be like yeah that this
[01:53:53.840] is the spot you wouldn't like be like
[01:53:56.639] you wouldn't be like what Wait, there
[01:53:58.000] was a white shed there and it's not here
[01:53:59.599] anymore and confused and apparently
[01:54:01.119] there was a white shed there that was
[01:54:02.400] removed or whatever and then finally
[01:54:04.320] when he sees the spot you just see him
[01:54:06.080] palpably break down. It's not this
[01:54:08.480] unless Yeah. you know taking some acting
[01:54:10.800] class on the side or something.
[01:54:11.920] >> Not that you're a genius. You're
[01:54:13.599] the next Daniel D Lewis like what are
[01:54:15.679] you doing wasting your time in Brazil?
[01:54:17.520] >> Exactly.
[01:54:18.159] >> Telling UFO stories. [laughter]
[01:54:21.440] You go to Hollywood young man. Yeah.
[01:54:23.840] It's uh it's but it's also the problem
[01:54:26.480] is I want to believe it.
[01:54:28.239] >> That's also the problem.
[01:54:29.119] >> Me too.
[01:54:29.760] >> I you know I don't want to believe it's
[01:54:32.000] like the thing about like Roswell in
[01:54:34.159] particular. Roswell had it it has become
[01:54:36.880] an industry right
[01:54:39.040] >> there's the the whole tourist trap
[01:54:42.880] thing. There's the little gray you can
[01:54:45.119] buy things knickknacks at stores.
[01:54:48.639] >> You know it's like it's got this whole
[01:54:50.800] connection to it.
[01:54:52.400] >> It does. It does. It's its own cottage
[01:54:54.159] industry. It becomes people's
[01:54:55.440] identities. So they often want to keep
[01:54:57.040] it going and then sometimes like and
[01:54:58.880] this other thing happened to me too.
[01:55:00.159] Wait, you know, come back sort of thing.
[01:55:02.239] But
[01:55:02.560] >> did you see the conversation that Travis
[01:55:04.080] Walton had with Bob Lazar in a diner?
[01:55:06.880] >> Yeah, that was on my buddy show Chris
[01:55:08.639] Ramsey.
[01:55:09.360] >> What a weird way to do a show of a a
[01:55:11.520] diner [laughter] scene and like you have
[01:55:14.239] these two guys sitting across from each
[01:55:15.679] other. It was very odd how they did it,
[01:55:17.534] [laughter] but I didn't think that was
[01:55:19.119] necessary. But but the conversation's
[01:55:21.040] interesting. It's super interesting to
[01:55:22.800] hear the similarities between, you know,
[01:55:24.719] their accounts and yeah, things that
[01:55:26.480] line up and they don't those two guys
[01:55:28.800] are also
[01:55:30.159] >> kind of again in that top tier of like
[01:55:32.239] you spend time with them. I haven't
[01:55:33.599] spent time with Travis Walton, but I
[01:55:34.880] have with Bob and it's like you know
[01:55:37.040] this it's like really hard to poke holes
[01:55:39.280] in the story and they just to go back to
[01:55:42.239] our original you know OG the top of this
[01:55:45.280] conversation
[01:55:46.800] like the pattern matching is just there
[01:55:48.880] with him. He doesn't seem like a
[01:55:50.639] bullshitter.
[01:55:51.599] >> Travis doesn't seem like a bullshitter
[01:55:53.119] at all. You know, I talked to him for
[01:55:54.639] several hours and, you know, before and
[01:55:57.280] after the show. And he he's also a guy
[01:56:00.400] who's had the same story for 50 years.
[01:56:03.360] >> It's the same story.
[01:56:04.800] >> Yeah.
[01:56:05.199] >> It's the It doesn't really vary. They
[01:56:07.199] all took lie detector tests. One of the
[01:56:09.360] guys that was a part of the crew
[01:56:11.440] actually hated him and got in a fist
[01:56:13.040] fight with him the day of the event and
[01:56:15.119] he told the exact same story.
[01:56:16.960] >> Yeah. And he came back. There was
[01:56:18.400] missing time and I think he came back
[01:56:19.760] with a full grown beard
[01:56:21.040] >> five days later.
[01:56:21.840] >> Five days later. Yeah. It's it's very
[01:56:24.560] strange.
[01:56:25.119] >> But his clothes weren't dirty. He's like
[01:56:28.000] >> And he had this insane story.
[01:56:30.000] >> And they all stuck to the same story.
[01:56:32.239] Yeah.
[01:56:32.719] >> Well, they thought those guys killed him
[01:56:34.080] at first, so they were they were
[01:56:35.679] questioning. Yeah.
[01:56:36.239] >> Yeah. They like, "Where the is he?"
[01:56:38.560] And they're telling the story like,
[01:56:39.679] "What?" And then he comes back five days
[01:56:41.520] later and tells the story and they're
[01:56:43.599] like, "What is like what? Did you guys
[01:56:47.119] all plan this?" Like, "What the is
[01:56:49.280] going on?" But it doesn't seem like they
[01:56:50.880] did.
[01:56:51.280] >> So trippy. And he like touched the craft
[01:56:53.199] and it was had this electromagnetic
[01:56:55.040] charge or something. He like bounced off
[01:56:56.960] of it.
[01:56:57.360] >> Either he touched it or he got close to
[01:56:58.639] it, right? He
[01:56:59.280] >> got close to it. And that's common to
[01:57:02.320] Yeah, maybe he got close. I don't know.
[01:57:03.760] But that's common for UFO experiencers
[01:57:06.880] where it's like you experience like
[01:57:08.560] weird electromagnetic effects where it's
[01:57:10.880] like almost like you're getting a a
[01:57:12.239] sunburn where you get like you know UV
[01:57:14.560] damage. It's actually in Close
[01:57:15.599] Encounters of the uh Third Kind. It's
[01:57:17.920] depicted where you know Richard Drifus
[01:57:20.239] literally has a sunburn after his
[01:57:21.520] encounter
[01:57:21.920] >> on one side of his face where it was to
[01:57:23.679] the left of his face because it was
[01:57:25.119] outside.
[01:57:25.840] >> Exactly. Exactly. And Mario Woods also
[01:57:28.320] in in Ellsworth, you know, South Dakota,
[01:57:30.719] he also had had burns and he didn't know
[01:57:33.679] where they came from. They took skin
[01:57:34.880] samples.
[01:57:37.440] >> And what they discover?
[01:57:39.040] >> I don't know. I think that that part's
[01:57:40.800] classified, unfortunately.
[01:57:42.946] [sighs]
[01:57:43.679] God,
[01:57:46.480] wouldn't you just love to have an actual
[01:57:48.880] experience yourself? I mean, imagine
[01:57:50.719] thinking about all the time you spent
[01:57:52.159] studying this and you haven't had an
[01:57:53.599] actual experience yourself. I've seen
[01:57:55.679] UFOs, but I haven't I know I haven't had
[01:57:57.760] a close encounter of the of the third
[01:57:59.520] kind. And
[01:58:00.080] >> what have you seen?
[01:58:01.119] >> I saw in Laurel Canyon I saw a UFO and
[01:58:04.159] then in Silver Lake I saw [laughter] you
[01:58:07.199] weird places to see you in LA.
[01:58:09.520] >> What they look like?
[01:58:10.639] >> One was I I told one of them on on your
[01:58:13.440] I think I told both of them on your
[01:58:14.480] show, but but um one was like a school
[01:58:16.800] bus sort of thing, which is really
[01:58:18.719] weird. It was like um you know kind of
[01:58:21.520] you know rectangular and uh it was
[01:58:24.639] hovering like right above the treetops.
[01:58:26.800] It was not very high and it was sort of
[01:58:30.320] silently moving over the treetops and I
[01:58:33.040] was with a friend at the time and she
[01:58:35.280] saw the UFO like descend over the
[01:58:38.320] treetops like like like go into some you
[01:58:40.960] know we were in a residential area. It
[01:58:42.159] was in Laurel Canyon and so that was
[01:58:45.040] very strange. I didn't see that. I
[01:58:46.400] didn't see it sort of descend. I just
[01:58:47.679] saw it go over and it but it looked like
[01:58:50.159] a floating again school bus like a thing
[01:58:53.520] and there's like no visible propulsion.
[01:58:55.040] It was the strangest thing.
[01:58:56.159] >> How fast was it moving?
[01:58:58.639] >> That's hard for me to say. I don't know.
[01:59:01.440] >> Not fast.
[01:59:02.000] >> Not fast. Yeah.
[01:59:02.800] >> Like it could have been a balloon.
[01:59:04.960] >> There's no way
[01:59:06.320] >> really.
[01:59:06.960] >> No.
[01:59:07.360] >> Why? Floating like a balloon.
[01:59:10.080] >> Like a
[01:59:10.800] >> Because it was like
[01:59:11.520] >> helium balloon.
[01:59:13.199] >> Yeah. I get I get maybe it could have
[01:59:14.880] been a balloon.
[01:59:15.440] >> A large balloon. Maybe. I don't know. It
[01:59:17.920] was like It was right above the treetops
[01:59:20.000] and you heard this sort of little hum
[01:59:23.840] and I don't know. I don't I don't I
[01:59:25.599] don't know. I don't think it was a
[01:59:26.480] balloon, but maybe it was a balloon.
[01:59:29.360] >> I mean, think about blimps. Like, if you
[01:59:32.320] didn't know what a blimp was and you saw
[01:59:33.920] that thing flying overhead, you're like,
[01:59:34.960] "Oh my god, I've I've seen plenty of
[01:59:37.440] blimps and they're usually like really
[01:59:38.800] high in the sky and this thing like
[01:59:41.280] >> But they don't have to be." Right.
[01:59:43.040] That's how they come down.
[01:59:44.719] >> Yeah. Right.
[01:59:46.560] This thing was definitely not a plane,
[01:59:48.880] but I can't [laughter] I don't remember
[01:59:50.239] the exact, you know, details as to what
[01:59:52.639] noise
[01:59:55.040] >> like kind of like a a low bassy thing,
[01:59:57.280] but no like not normal not normal
[02:00:00.400] propulsion noise.
[02:00:02.080] >> Like bassy
[02:00:03.280] >> like it was like a
[02:00:04.320] >> like a
[02:00:05.280] >> Yeah, that sort of thing. Yeah.
[02:00:07.760] >> Like the fan that's moving the balloon,
[02:00:09.440] >> but not not at all like a you know a
[02:00:11.520] chopper or a plane or anything. And
[02:00:16.400] yeah, I don't know. As far as like it
[02:00:18.080] just looked metallic. Like if it was a
[02:00:20.320] blimp or something, it would have been
[02:00:21.760] like perfectly like I don't know. It had
[02:00:24.320] had some sophisticated signature
[02:00:25.840] management to look like it was like, you
[02:00:27.920] know, perfectly metallic and shiny.
[02:00:29.840] >> But like myar balloons,
[02:00:32.320] they look very metallic.
[02:00:34.080] >> Yeah. But I think you could see that it
[02:00:36.560] was floating. You could see that, you
[02:00:37.920] know, possibly that it was moving with
[02:00:39.360] the wind.
[02:00:40.639] >> And this didn't look like it was moving
[02:00:42.000] with the wind at all. It looked like it
[02:00:43.360] was sort of moving against the wind.
[02:00:46.800] >> I mean, not not necessarily moving
[02:00:48.159] against, but moving agnostic to the wind
[02:00:50.080] is what I'm trying to say.
[02:00:51.920] >> If there was a way where you could sit
[02:00:54.159] down and conjure up an experience
[02:00:58.800] with something, would you do it?
[02:01:01.520] >> Conjure up an exper What do you mean?
[02:01:03.199] Like if you could in a meditative state
[02:01:06.639] access
[02:01:08.239] like whatever connection and and have
[02:01:12.239] like a Betty and Barney Hill type
[02:01:13.920] experience.
[02:01:15.280] >> I I wouldn't try to artificially do that
[02:01:18.159] necessarily. I mean I would I would love
[02:01:20.960] to have an experience but maybe
[02:01:22.159] organically like if it's sort of you
[02:01:23.840] know me meant for me sort of thing but
[02:01:26.159] that is there are whistleblowers who've
[02:01:29.040] come out this guy like Jake Barber for
[02:01:30.800] example that talks about essentially
[02:01:34.080] programs forcing people systematically
[02:01:36.800] to conjure up these sorts of experiences
[02:01:39.280] >> right that's why I asked
[02:01:41.360] >> okay [laughter]
[02:01:42.024] [gasps] yeah uh yeah no and I I think
[02:01:44.719] there's so I think there's a long
[02:01:46.639] tradition of communing
[02:01:49.119] with these sorts of things that goes
[02:01:50.800] back to like kind of meaba cobalistic
[02:01:53.199] practices you know neoplatanists would
[02:01:55.920] call it the like you know kind of
[02:01:57.760] communing with deities
[02:02:00.080] >> and I don't think it's a coincidence
[02:02:02.239] that I think there are aspects of you
[02:02:04.320] know Steven Greer say what you will
[02:02:06.239] about the guy C5 there are aspects of
[02:02:08.639] that that are maybe similar to some of
[02:02:10.480] these sort of protocols
[02:02:12.320] >> that involve sort of communing with
[02:02:14.000] these things
[02:02:15.679] >> and traditionally you're not supposed to
[02:02:18.159] do this stuff unless you are like fully
[02:02:22.080] like of pure intent. You're probably
[02:02:24.320] older. Like you're not supposed to start
[02:02:25.920] Cabala, for example, until you're 35.
[02:02:28.080] Um, really? Yeah. I think you're
[02:02:29.280] supposed to be married as well. You're
[02:02:30.639] supposed to be like very rooted in
[02:02:32.000] reality.
[02:02:33.119] >> Um,
[02:02:34.000] >> interesting.
[02:02:34.639] >> Yeah. So, and then there's like
[02:02:36.400] >> that's like a Jewish mysticism, right?
[02:02:38.480] >> That's a Jew a Jewish mysticism, but
[02:02:40.320] there are Christian versions of it. And
[02:02:43.280] you know I I think there yeah there
[02:02:45.760] there there versions of it kind of
[02:02:47.119] across history. The neoplatonists had a
[02:02:49.280] virgin a version of it as well. So you
[02:02:52.080] know I think this is uh something that
[02:02:54.639] yeah I think the Jews had it with you
[02:02:56.159] know Ezekiel's wheel and the the kind of
[02:02:58.639] meabah texts but I think there's there's
[02:03:00.800] more.
[02:03:01.760] >> Yeah. Well the weird stuff when you get
[02:03:04.400] into the Bible itself is the stuff that
[02:03:07.280] wasn't put in the Bible.
[02:03:10.159] >> I know what you're going to say. The
[02:03:11.840] Enoch stuff.
[02:03:12.639] >> That's so weird.
[02:03:13.360] >> The Enoch stuff is really weird.
[02:03:15.119] >> Yeah.
[02:03:15.520] >> And when they find it in these clay
[02:03:18.239] tablets in Kuman along with
[02:03:22.159] books in the Bible, like the book of
[02:03:23.760] Isaiah was also in there. Like, okay,
[02:03:25.840] what what was that?
[02:03:27.920] >> And how and how much that sounds like
[02:03:29.520] Greek mythology, like these gods sort of
[02:03:33.040] mating with mankind.
[02:03:35.280] >> Yeah. And apparently it's still in the
[02:03:37.360] Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian Bible has
[02:03:40.480] the all of the books of Enoch, all the
[02:03:43.599] different tales of the Watchers and the
[02:03:46.800] Book of the Watchers and all that stuff
[02:03:48.080] where they came down and mate with the
[02:03:49.760] daughters of men
[02:03:51.119] >> and created the Nephilim that's in the
[02:03:53.040] Ethiopian Bible.
[02:03:54.320] >> That is so trippy.
[02:03:55.920] >> It's so trippy.
[02:03:56.719] >> It's so trippy. And then they create the
[02:03:58.080] Nephilim. And then you get into the
[02:04:00.320] Timothy Alberina stories which you know
[02:04:02.480] I know he was on your podcast where
[02:04:04.639] there might be giants in Afghanistan
[02:04:06.639] that the Air Forcees encountered in the
[02:04:08.400] early 2000s and you had Devon Lat on as
[02:04:10.639] well.
[02:04:11.520] >> You know was he a famous arm wrestler is
[02:04:14.159] that right?
[02:04:14.960] >> Who served the Canadian special forces
[02:04:17.760] in Afghanistan and saw a man there was
[02:04:19.840] like massive. He said he was like 8t
[02:04:21.760] tall
[02:04:22.320] >> and uh I think a a mutual friend of ours
[02:04:25.040] Brigham Beer shout out ways to well
[02:04:27.199] they're the best. uh he has an employee
[02:04:29.520] who also I think was special forces in
[02:04:31.840] Afghanistan
[02:04:33.360] and he says that there were there were I
[02:04:37.440] think you know large beings there like
[02:04:38.960] giants there as well. So, it's like a
[02:04:41.040] bunch of like anecdotal and that's just
[02:04:42.639] us. That's just, you know,
[02:04:44.560] >> so
[02:04:45.119] >> yeah, it's super weird. And do
[02:04:48.239] you know that these uh the the the
[02:04:51.119] latest
[02:04:52.639] um take on the the Dennisovvens or
[02:04:55.520] Denisvens, however you want to say it.
[02:04:57.679] Um you know, which is a very recent
[02:05:00.320] discovery. I I think the first even
[02:05:04.080] recognition that there was another type
[02:05:06.080] of human called Denisven. I think that's
[02:05:08.400] how they pronounce it. I always say
[02:05:09.840] Dennis Oven. Um, they believe they might
[02:05:12.480] be much larger than human beings now.
[02:05:15.199] They used to think that they were squat
[02:05:17.920] like Neanderthalss and thick brows and
[02:05:20.719] but now they realize their heads were
[02:05:22.560] much larger than ours and that these
[02:05:25.760] could potentially been 8 foot tall
[02:05:27.440] people.
[02:05:28.480] >> I didn't realize that. That's crazy.
[02:05:30.719] >> This is fairly recent. So when was the
[02:05:33.920] dis put this into perspect uh perplexity
[02:05:37.040] when was the discovery of denisovvens or
[02:05:40.000] denisven
[02:05:42.239] >> I want to say it's real recent like
[02:05:44.719] maybe
[02:05:46.480] 2016 or something like that like real
[02:05:48.800] recent
[02:05:49.599] >> where they didn't even know that there
[02:05:52.159] was this branch of the human species
[02:05:55.040] >> I feel like we've discovered a large
[02:05:56.960] percentage of homminids
[02:05:58.320] >> 2010 there go okay so okay they found it
[02:06:01.599] in Siberia in 2008. Um, it was
[02:06:04.960] identified as a previously unknown group
[02:06:07.119] of archaic humans in 2010. The key
[02:06:09.520] fossil, small finger bone, has been
[02:06:11.040] excavated from the Denisova cave in
[02:06:14.000] Siberia in 2008, but DNA analysis
[02:06:16.639] published in 2010 revealed that it
[02:06:18.560] belonged to a population distinct from
[02:06:20.480] both Neanderthalss and modern humans.
[02:06:22.880] Um, I think they have more now than just
[02:06:26.080] the fingerbone. And I think that is
[02:06:28.320] where they're getting at. Um I think
[02:06:30.639] they have skulls.
[02:06:32.800] Uh varies w highest known. Oh this is
[02:06:36.960] people who have the DNA.
[02:06:40.480] >> So there some DNA estimations.
[02:06:43.679] Melanesian populations especially people
[02:06:46.000] with ancestry in Papa New Guinea and
[02:06:48.079] nearby Pacific Islands roughly four to
[02:06:50.400] six% of their genomes.
[02:06:52.719] That's interesting.
[02:06:55.040] Um, what uh let's uh find out how many
[02:06:58.719] bones they have available
[02:07:01.520] >> because I think there's I think there's
[02:07:04.480] brow ridge bones and there's skull bones
[02:07:07.840] that seem to indicate that it had a
[02:07:10.079] larger larger skull than humans
[02:07:12.880] >> and they think how much bone has been
[02:07:15.119] recovered or found. Let's find out.
[02:07:20.159] >> Very little. M
[02:07:21.440] >> uh Denisven are known for a small number
[02:07:23.760] of fragmentaryary fossils, not complete
[02:07:25.840] skeletons.
[02:07:28.000] Uh
[02:07:29.679] do they have skull? They have a mandible
[02:07:33.520] partial lower jaw from the Tibetan
[02:07:35.840] plateau. It was identified as Denisven
[02:07:39.679] through ancient protein analysis rather
[02:07:41.599] than recoverable Denosan DNA.
[02:07:45.199] No complete Denisovven skull or
[02:07:47.920] skeleton. Um just Google I mean uh
[02:07:51.920] excuse me search for me um Denisan skull
[02:07:57.119] like see if there's images cuz I think
[02:07:59.920] there's a brow
[02:08:03.199] >> like
[02:08:03.760] >> the problem is it's like you're you're
[02:08:05.360] looking for stuff. Yeah.
[02:08:07.199] >> So like what is that? Is that just a
[02:08:09.040] recreation of what it looks like?
[02:08:11.199] >> It seems like a recreation
[02:08:13.599] >> but this is what they think it looked
[02:08:15.119] like.
[02:08:15.440] >> It's like a Eugene Levy situation. huge
[02:08:17.840] eyebrows. Look at the the brow ridge.
[02:08:20.639] >> Yeah.
[02:08:21.599] >> So, how much is this real? And what is
[02:08:24.800] this AI? Like, what is this?
[02:08:26.560] >> Well, is perplexity not caught up to the
[02:08:28.960] latest evidence? Like
[02:08:30.480] >> in Peru, paraca skulls are 30%
[02:08:34.560] >> higher volume, I think, often than
[02:08:37.040] normal skulls.
[02:08:37.920] >> Some of them are, right? Some of them
[02:08:38.960] are. That's the weird with the
[02:08:40.719] elongated heads. That gets real weird.
[02:08:43.360] This has a fairly elongated head as
[02:08:46.000] well, but it's uh not like upwardly.
[02:08:49.360] It's It seems to like move towards the
[02:08:51.520] back, but has a pretty large. So, is
[02:08:54.320] that an actual
[02:08:55.360] >> I don't know. I'm trying to figure out.
[02:08:57.840] So if that's an actual Denisan skull, it
[02:09:02.079] seems like Perplexity is relying on
[02:09:04.320] older data or older papers.
[02:09:09.280] >> Cuz I I I do think that this is part of
[02:09:11.920] why they're saying that they think they
[02:09:13.840] might have been much larger.
[02:09:18.719] >> What's going on?
[02:09:20.960] This is natural history. What is being
[02:09:22.800] eaten?
[02:09:23.119] >> This is a hyena bone
[02:09:24.880] >> that they were eating hyena bones.
[02:09:26.239] Indeed, that could just pulled this
[02:09:27.440] picture off of this website. I don't
[02:09:29.199] know if
[02:09:29.920] >> Okay. Fossil evidence of a mysterious
[02:09:33.119] southern denisven yet to be found.
[02:09:35.440] >> A replica of a homo erectus cranium. So,
[02:09:38.560] okay. [clears throat] That's from
[02:09:39.599] Indonesia.
[02:09:40.400] >> I know, but I'm just saying that's this
[02:09:41.760] picture showed up in
[02:09:42.880] >> Right.
[02:09:43.520] >> So, that's what that is. But so, what is
[02:09:45.360] that image that of the prominent brow
[02:09:47.520] ridge like that one? Yeah,
[02:09:48.639] >> I know. I'm trying to track it down.
[02:09:50.960] That's coming from a Nature article that
[02:09:52.480] I couldn't get into. It was paywalled.
[02:09:54.159] So, if they haven't found this much,
[02:09:56.159] then I think based off of the pictures
[02:09:59.199] I'm seeing, they probably built it off
[02:10:00.719] of this tooth they found
[02:10:02.639] >> and then expand it out to here because
[02:10:04.159] there's a little picture of a tooth
[02:10:05.119] right there. But,
[02:10:05.840] >> right, I don't know. So, that seems like
[02:10:08.560] a jawbone that they found.
[02:10:13.520] So, if that if it turns again, we're
[02:10:16.480] talking about something that's recently
[02:10:17.920] discovered. They they only knew that
[02:10:19.599] this thing existed 16 years ago, which
[02:10:22.000] is really a part of the problem with
[02:10:23.520] this whole term fossil record. You know,
[02:10:26.480] we like to think of the fossil record as
[02:10:28.000] being a library. It's not. It's like
[02:10:30.719] it's really limited in terms of like how
[02:10:32.960] many things that die leave fossils. It's
[02:10:35.040] a tiny fraction.
[02:10:36.320] >> Same with the archaeological record.
[02:10:37.840] It's the same thing.
[02:10:39.199] >> Well, at least the archaeological
[02:10:40.560] record, we have physical stuff. Like we
[02:10:43.599] can look at, you know, Sakai Wan. We can
[02:10:46.079] look at the pyramids. We can we don't
[02:10:47.840] really know what happened and who built
[02:10:49.119] it, but at least there's like physical
[02:10:50.480] stuff there that defies explanation.
[02:10:52.159] >> But if you have a cataclysm,
[02:10:53.679] >> right? [laughter]
[02:10:54.639] >> Right.
[02:10:55.119] >> And we probably did during the ice age,
[02:10:57.360] you know.
[02:10:57.760] >> Yeah. More than likely. More than
[02:11:00.320] likely. The idea that we didn't have a
[02:11:02.000] cataclysm seems silly at this point. It
[02:11:03.840] seems like there's there's so much
[02:11:05.199] physical evidence.
[02:11:06.480] >> And it's almost like the longer we go,
[02:11:08.800] the more hominids we find, and the
[02:11:10.719] longer we go, the older things get
[02:11:12.560] archaeologically. And it's actually
[02:11:15.199] >> predictable. Like it makes sense that
[02:11:16.880] both of those would be the case. Like
[02:11:18.480] obviously our
[02:11:19.760] >> abilities to like map and have sensors
[02:11:22.079] and like figure this stuff out is
[02:11:24.000] increasing and lower in the sediment
[02:11:25.760] layer of any sort of dig is going to be
[02:11:27.920] like older stuff.
[02:11:29.360] >> Yes.
[02:11:29.840] >> So archaeology is 200 years old.
[02:11:31.840] Literally the the the discoveries of the
[02:11:34.000] you know Babylonian cities 200 years ago
[02:11:36.560] cities. Yeah.
[02:11:37.440] >> Have you seen I think he's an Italian
[02:11:40.000] guy. There is a a new paper that's being
[02:11:42.960] published about the dating of the
[02:11:44.800] pyramids and he's uh relying on erosion
[02:11:48.159] evidence.
[02:11:48.880] >> Yeah. I think relative erosion method.
[02:11:51.280] >> Yes.
[02:11:51.920] >> Donini I think is
[02:11:53.360] >> that's exactly him. And he pushes it way
[02:11:56.800] back.
[02:11:57.360] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[02:11:57.920] >> He pushes it back as recently as I god I
[02:12:02.400] want to say like 16,000
[02:12:05.119] and then the highend is 35,000 plus.
[02:12:08.719] >> Yeah. It's crazy. [laughter]
[02:12:10.560] which is like, wait, what? What are you
[02:12:13.280] talking about? Like, this is a 35,000
[02:12:15.599] year old building. Like, [laughter]
[02:12:17.280] what does that even mean? Like, who who
[02:12:19.840] >> speaking of Did you see that they
[02:12:21.040] retracted this?
[02:12:22.159] >> Oh, Filip Yes, he contacted me about
[02:12:24.800] this. He's very upset.
[02:12:26.079] >> Yeah.
[02:12:26.480] >> Uh they they retracted it with uh
[02:12:29.040] without any explanation, without any
[02:12:31.679] justification. My
[02:12:34.480] I'd like to call it nuanced take is that
[02:12:38.159] I think I don't think he's lying. I
[02:12:41.679] don't think he's a fraud, but I think
[02:12:43.840] that he needs to just open source his
[02:12:47.280] method because basically you have this
[02:12:48.800] synthetic aperture radar Doppler
[02:12:50.239] tomography which is synthetic aperture
[02:12:52.000] radar is a known technique for you know
[02:12:54.079] radar imaging and it radar images at
[02:12:56.719] like very fine resolution and then you
[02:12:58.320] have this ability to measure micro
[02:13:00.800] vibrations that transmit into the
[02:13:03.520] satellite signal. The thing that is only
[02:13:05.920] his, his and only his is this beyondi
[02:13:09.199] method which is this software where he
[02:13:11.679] is able to deduce these structures you
[02:13:14.400] know underneath the earth based on that.
[02:13:16.639] So do I think he's lying about the grand
[02:13:18.960] sasso laboratory which is you know this
[02:13:21.360] other sort of I think particle
[02:13:22.880] accelerator national lab out there that
[02:13:24.639] he was able to like perfectly measure
[02:13:26.880] and
[02:13:27.360] >> 1.2 kilometers into a mountain
[02:13:29.119] >> into a mountain. I I I would really hope
[02:13:31.599] not and I don't think so. And But then
[02:13:34.719] at the same time, I think it's like,
[02:13:36.320] dude, you gotta like you're you're
[02:13:38.480] talking about like a Nobel Prize or
[02:13:40.079] something here. Like just just let it
[02:13:41.920] open like either you either have to get
[02:13:43.920] really really rich and keep it closed
[02:13:46.000] source or the preference that I would
[02:13:48.239] have and I think that would be best for
[02:13:49.760] humanity is just open source the thing.
[02:13:52.159] And you know, I think it's his life's
[02:13:53.599] work. So I think he's a little
[02:13:54.639] possessive around it. But that would be
[02:13:56.960] the one thing where I'm like, dude, just
[02:13:58.800] let it let it out or let somebody else
[02:14:00.639] replicate it.
[02:14:02.079] >> Interesting. because um they've used
[02:14:05.840] this method to identify structures that
[02:14:09.440] are known to exist and um they Right.
[02:14:13.199] >> Yeah. And I think the uh what is it the
[02:14:15.760] sha the Osiris shaft I think.
[02:14:17.280] >> Yes. Exactly.
[02:14:18.480] >> So and it's and it got the right
[02:14:21.520] dimensions and if it's correct in and if
[02:14:24.880] he's telling the truth about what it was
[02:14:26.639] able to deem from the particle
[02:14:27.920] accelerator when it was looking at the
[02:14:29.599] part particle accelerator it got the
[02:14:31.119] exact dimensions of it. that it knew
[02:14:32.560] where it was. And so it's like
[02:14:36.800] >> we need to dig. [laughter]
[02:14:38.800] >> We need to do something. Well, there's
[02:14:40.560] all those that's one thing that he
[02:14:41.920] brought up on the podcast. those shafts
[02:14:43.599] that exist around there
[02:14:45.599] >> that have been filled up with debris and
[02:14:47.280] sand and dirt over time that they need
[02:14:49.920] to clean that out and get down in
[02:14:52.320] there and find out like what is cuz we
[02:14:55.119] know that there's all these subterranean
[02:14:56.960] tunnels and passages that are all around
[02:15:00.320] Egypt like for sure they know that that
[02:15:04.000] labyrinth exists. Yes. That that
[02:15:06.639] Herododus discovered and that he talked
[02:15:08.960] about in great detail. They knew they
[02:15:11.520] know from ground penetrating radar these
[02:15:13.679] there's these great chambers in there.
[02:15:15.599] >> Even Zahi Hawas will admit that there
[02:15:17.520] are tunnels underneath the Sphinx,
[02:15:19.119] right?
[02:15:19.440] >> So like yeah, I think more likely than
[02:15:21.199] not there is something underneath the
[02:15:22.880] pyramids and then we just have to dig.
[02:15:25.440] We got to get down there. And if you're
[02:15:27.199] Egypt and you're the Ministry of
[02:15:28.560] Culture, that's the most GDP boosting
[02:15:31.440] thing you could think of.
[02:15:32.560] >> God, could you imagine if both uh is it
[02:15:36.320] what's the other guy's name? be the
[02:15:38.560] Italian guy with the erosion guy.
[02:15:40.719] >> Uh I think Donini.
[02:15:41.920] >> Donini. If Donini and Beyond, first of
[02:15:44.639] all, what a great [laughter]
[02:15:47.199] >> Italian duo. Like if if these two guys
[02:15:50.159] from Italy have cracked two different
[02:15:52.320] things, one of them with erosion science
[02:15:54.480] and the other one with ground
[02:15:56.159] penetrating Doppler tomography. If those
[02:15:58.960] guys are correct, you you're going to
[02:16:00.960] have like an a gigantic group of new
[02:16:04.000] people that want to come and check out
[02:16:05.599] Egypt. That would be so awesome. Yeah.
[02:16:08.000] >> But you have to get past these
[02:16:09.040] gatekeepers of the timeline. The
[02:16:11.119] gatekeepers of the timeline really want
[02:16:13.040] to insist that 2,500 BC is about as good
[02:16:15.920] as it gets.
[02:16:16.719] >> Yeah. And it's like it's all good. It's
[02:16:19.599] the the land that modern Egypt is on.
[02:16:22.320] Like that it's fine. Like you can sort
[02:16:24.079] of like take pride in [laughter] the
[02:16:26.480] fact even if it's older and it's not
[02:16:28.639] necessarily like
[02:16:30.000] >> it's still Egypt.
[02:16:31.040] >> It's still Egypt. It's amazing.
[02:16:32.319] >> What's really dumb about the critics of
[02:16:34.559] these theories? They all want to
[02:16:36.399] attribute it to a bunch of different
[02:16:37.840] people. Like you and I are alien
[02:16:40.160] cooks and we're not trying to. We're
[02:16:42.800] saying like no, it's probably people had
[02:16:45.679] a super advanced civilization in that
[02:16:47.679] part of the world a long time ago. And
[02:16:50.319] what you're getting is multiple
[02:16:52.639] generations of people after the fact
[02:16:54.800] trying to recreate some of these ancient
[02:16:57.599] structures. and that these ancient
[02:16:59.200] structures probably predated whatever
[02:17:02.479] civilization existed at 2,500 BC.
[02:17:05.519] >> Yeah. And you you have to throw
[02:17:07.200] spaghetti at the wall. Like it's like
[02:17:08.880] it's your duty to speculate because the
[02:17:11.599] conventional narratives don't make any
[02:17:13.599] sense
[02:17:14.080] >> at all.
[02:17:14.719] >> At all. And you have people grasping
[02:17:16.240] this rather there's a French guy John
[02:17:18.399] Pierre Houdan who is like you know civil
[02:17:21.040] engineering chops and he's talking about
[02:17:23.359] like an external ramp but then an
[02:17:25.920] external ramp would you know the incline
[02:17:27.840] would be too too high for these you know
[02:17:29.840] megaton bricks you know blocks so then
[02:17:32.160] you end up with an internal ramp as
[02:17:33.760] well. So it's like we are gra that is
[02:17:35.599] like the best explanation right
[02:17:38.000] conventionally and so let's let's try to
[02:17:42.000] figure it out and let's be a little
[02:17:43.200] creative and we don't need to like you
[02:17:45.120] know stay so narrow like all these
[02:17:46.800] skeptics are like the they're they're
[02:17:48.880] you know attack dogs for what the
[02:17:52.319] problem is they don't want these Jimmy
[02:17:55.679] Corsettes and Michael Buttons and all
[02:17:58.319] all of these people that have enormous
[02:18:00.319] following on online to have any point.
[02:18:04.160] They don't want that. They want to
[02:18:06.080] dismiss them outright, which is why they
[02:18:08.399] always use the same poratives. They
[02:18:10.319] always call them racists. And the white
[02:18:12.800] supremacy is one that they they've
[02:18:14.639] attached to Graham, which is hilarious
[02:18:16.080] cuz he's married to an Indian woman.
[02:18:18.000] It's the whole thing is so stupid,
[02:18:19.600] [laughter] but he's the most non-racist
[02:18:21.280] person you're ever going to meet in your
[02:18:22.399] life. He's just completely open-minded.
[02:18:24.479] And also that doesn't take away all the
[02:18:27.840] factual data, all the stuff that's like
[02:18:31.599] the stuff that's really weird that's
[02:18:33.760] hard to describe. When you're talking
[02:18:36.160] about a structure that is perfectly
[02:18:38.800] aligned almost to true north, south,
[02:18:41.280] east, and west, and has 2,300,000
[02:18:44.319] stones, and used to be covered in smooth
[02:18:46.639] limestone, and somehow or another was
[02:18:49.280] the greatest structure that human beings
[02:18:51.840] have ever created. N is bare minimum
[02:18:56.479] 4,500
[02:18:58.240] years old. That is a mind And
[02:19:01.040] anybody who says that's not a mind
[02:19:03.280] And when you're talking about some of
[02:19:04.639] the stones like particularly in the
[02:19:05.760] king's chamber that are hundreds of tons
[02:19:10.080] or or a hundred tons or 80 tons or
[02:19:12.240] whatever they are and from hundreds of
[02:19:14.319] miles away through the mountains with no
[02:19:17.359] roads, no heavy machinery and they're
[02:19:20.559] placed way the up on the ceiling of
[02:19:23.519] this place perfectly. Totally. There's
[02:19:27.359] also the weird mind of the
[02:19:29.040] sarcophagus in the king's chamber, which
[02:19:32.240] aligns with the same dimensions where
[02:19:35.920] you could fit the Ark of the Covenant in
[02:19:37.760] it.
[02:19:38.080] >> No way.
[02:19:38.719] >> Yes. Really?
[02:19:39.519] >> Oh, there's a lot of people that believe
[02:19:41.200] this. There's a real problem with the
[02:19:43.120] measuring of radioactivity, too. They
[02:19:45.120] try to say there's there's a a higher
[02:19:47.359] level of radioactivity inside the
[02:19:49.040] sarcophagus than in the outer walls. But
[02:19:51.439] the problem is when people talk about
[02:19:53.520] radiation and stones, like stones are
[02:19:56.560] they have a certain level of radiation
[02:19:59.520] just inherently,
[02:20:01.200] >> you know, like you can like
[02:20:04.640] the sun has radiation like there's
[02:20:07.040] >> geer counters can go off random. Yeah.
[02:20:09.359] But the the people that are like the
[02:20:11.439] real they're really out there. They
[02:20:13.439] think that that might have been the
[02:20:15.920] positioning for the Ark of the Covenant
[02:20:18.157] [laughter] and that it measures like if
[02:20:20.080] you look at the Bible's description of
[02:20:22.160] the dimensions of the Ark of the
[02:20:23.439] Covenant, it fits conveniently inside
[02:20:25.680] the sarcophagus in the king's chamber.
[02:20:27.600] >> Wa, that's crazy.
[02:20:29.040] >> It is crazy. What's also crazy that
[02:20:31.120] Graham believes that the Ethiopian Bible
[02:20:34.399] and the the these Ethiopian religious
[02:20:37.760] people who have uh supposedly this group
[02:20:41.840] of people that are supposed to watch
[02:20:43.760] over the Ark of the Covenant and that
[02:20:46.319] they are in possession of it and that
[02:20:48.160] these people that watch over it, they
[02:20:50.080] all develop cataracts and they can only
[02:20:52.240] do it for a little while and then they
[02:20:53.680] wind up dying. So they have like short
[02:20:55.520] tenures as the watchers of this whatever
[02:20:59.280] the this object is that they're
[02:21:01.200] calling the Ark of the Covenant.
[02:21:02.479] >> Stories of their faces getting mangled
[02:21:04.240] if they walk inside. He was so afraid.
[02:21:06.160] This was actually I think one of his
[02:21:07.439] first articles for like a magazine
[02:21:09.200] before he got into all this.
[02:21:10.319] >> This is how it got him into it in the
[02:21:11.359] first place.
[02:21:11.760] >> Got into it in the first place. You
[02:21:12.800] know, another crazy story is um I think
[02:21:15.280] it's uh Sir James Bruce was looking for
[02:21:18.080] the Ark of the Covenant and he found the
[02:21:19.760] book of Enoch, but he was searching for
[02:21:21.600] the Ark of the Covenant. But yeah, they
[02:21:23.600] think it's an Axom Ethiopia and there
[02:21:26.080] are Templar crosses I believe on a
[02:21:28.720] church there as well. And so and Graham
[02:21:31.280] talks about this and so that's his
[02:21:32.880] connection because they you know there
[02:21:34.319] obviously legends of the Templars being
[02:21:36.160] these sort of knights that guarded you
[02:21:38.319] know uh you know after after the
[02:21:39.920] destruction of the temple, the Ark of
[02:21:41.600] the Covenant. And so maybe they actually
[02:21:43.200] did make it all the way down to
[02:21:45.200] Ethiopia,
[02:21:46.080] >> which is wild.
[02:21:47.600] >> It's so wild. If that thing was actually
[02:21:50.000] in the center of the sarcophagus in the
[02:21:52.720] king's chamber in the pyramid,
[02:21:55.840] whatever that thing is,
[02:21:57.680] >> it's so it's so I mean the the one maybe
[02:22:00.399] counterargument or something I'd be
[02:22:02.560] curious about would be the Nazis were
[02:22:06.319] obsessed with the arc of the like the
[02:22:08.000] Indiana Jones plot is like legit.
[02:22:10.000] Himmler would go on these weird quests
[02:22:12.000] or whatever around this stuff.
[02:22:14.080] >> And I guess Italy and Ethiopia had that
[02:22:17.439] war around around that time I believe,
[02:22:20.160] right? Or like why wouldn't the Nazis
[02:22:22.240] just go in and try to take this object?
[02:22:25.840] >> Maybe they weren't aware.
[02:22:26.800] >> Maybe they weren't aware. Who knows?
[02:22:28.319] >> This guy Olenorf says he went and saw it
[02:22:30.560] in 1941
[02:22:32.240] >> and [clears throat] that it's a replica.
[02:22:35.520] He stated that he gained access in 1941
[02:22:38.479] because he spoke classic, how do you say
[02:22:41.040] that? Gue and appeared serious. However,
[02:22:45.040] he asserted the box inside was empty and
[02:22:47.439] described it as an empty middle to late
[02:22:49.680] medieval replica rather than the true
[02:22:52.000] biblical artifact. So, he's the only guy
[02:22:54.560] that's gained access. And this was in
[02:22:56.880] 1941. He's a British officer during
[02:22:59.280] World War II and later a professor of
[02:23:01.359] Ethiopian studies at the University of
[02:23:03.600] London. Interesting.
[02:23:04.720] >> I want to know the details. Like how
[02:23:06.399] does he know that it's an artifact
[02:23:08.800] >> or it's a replica
[02:23:09.840] >> or it's Yeah. Or sorry that's a replica
[02:23:11.439] rather. Yeah.
[02:23:12.560] >> There are I did look this up just I
[02:23:14.240] think yesterday.
[02:23:15.520] >> Oh, you did? Rabbit hole.
[02:23:18.000] >> Captain rabbit hole over here.
[02:23:19.200] >> I was [laughter] I was I found this
[02:23:20.640] rabbit hole cuz I was trying to find out
[02:23:21.760] where happened to the staff of Moses. I
[02:23:24.240] just was thinking about weird things
[02:23:25.520] that existed in history. And also the
[02:23:27.439] Ark of the Covenant. Last time it was
[02:23:29.200] actually known where it was was 586 BC.
[02:23:34.080] >> So like when Jesus was around, no one
[02:23:36.479] knew where it was.
[02:23:37.840] >> That's interesting.
[02:23:38.479] >> The wall 586. So hundreds of years
[02:23:41.120] before his
[02:23:41.760] >> 600 years before Jesus.
[02:23:43.359] >> Wow.
[02:23:43.760] >> Wow. Yeah. I know. The walls of Jericho
[02:23:45.760] were supposed to come down I think the
[02:23:48.080] arc of the covenant.
[02:23:48.880] >> Babylonian u destruction of Jerusalem.
[02:23:52.800] They tore down the cathedral which also
[02:23:55.520] I stumbled across something called the
[02:23:57.120] Madaba map. Have you ever heard of that?
[02:23:58.880] >> No.
[02:23:59.760] >> Uh, it was found
[02:24:02.399] it's a mosaic of like ancient Jerusalem
[02:24:05.840] found around 6 CE.
[02:24:10.080] And it shows I' I've never heard of this
[02:24:12.479] before. So, I was actually trying to
[02:24:13.600] show you like the best way to describe
[02:24:15.120] it, but it's all in like ancient Greece.
[02:24:17.200] It was a mosaic underneath the floor in
[02:24:20.560] a different church that they found while
[02:24:22.640] they were about to make a new church.
[02:24:23.920] So, they were doing like reconstruction
[02:24:25.920] and they found this map of ancient It's
[02:24:29.200] pointing things out here. This isn't the
[02:24:30.800] best way to describe it. I'm sorry, but
[02:24:33.200] um they've mapped it all and found
[02:24:35.840] things that that I think it was found in
[02:24:37.280] like 1895,
[02:24:39.120] right around turn of the century. So, it
[02:24:41.600] shows like where Jerusalem was, where
[02:24:43.120] all these things are in reference to
[02:24:44.319] each other and [clears throat]
[02:24:45.840] >> all these places that were in the Bible
[02:24:47.120] and whatnot.
[02:24:48.160] >> Wow. And I guess people didn't know
[02:24:50.240] about them and that's when some of the
[02:24:52.319] stuff is, you know, getting validated.
[02:24:53.920] Jordan's Madaba map.
[02:24:55.680] >> That's what it looks like. That's the
[02:24:56.720] actual image.
[02:24:57.200] >> Yeah, it's really I mean it's old
[02:24:59.439] school, you know, I guess tiles and
[02:25:01.760] little pieces of fragments of different
[02:25:03.439] things that is artistic was covered up
[02:25:06.800] probably multiple times.
[02:25:09.520] >> So wild. Well, then there's the
[02:25:11.200] weirdness of the Ark of the Covenant and
[02:25:13.600] the dimensions match this object that's
[02:25:16.319] on Mount Ararat, which is exactly where
[02:25:18.720] supposedly it landed in the Bible.
[02:25:20.960] >> What?
[02:25:21.600] >> Yes. Really?
[02:25:22.399] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a bunch of
[02:25:23.520] people that firmly believe that this
[02:25:25.520] object on Mount Ararat is that the uh
[02:25:28.560] Moses's
[02:25:29.120] >> staff. This one is. So, this it ex it
[02:25:31.840] turns out I don't know if this is real.
[02:25:33.439] This is where I was the rabbit hole was
[02:25:34.720] getting real weird here. [laughter] It's
[02:25:36.319] in a a palace in Istanbul, I believe,
[02:25:40.560] where there's other uh relics. It's like
[02:25:43.280] the palace of relics or something like
[02:25:44.800] that. There's uh the sword of the
[02:25:47.520] prophet David from 10 BC. Somehow they
[02:25:52.000] got like David and Goliath.
[02:25:53.600] >> What?
[02:25:54.160] >> King David. Yeah. And there's a bunch of
[02:25:56.160] things from Muhammad there. There's like
[02:25:57.439] a piece of a tooth, a piece of a beard.
[02:26:00.160] Um,
[02:26:02.240] well, I don't and that's what I don't to
[02:26:04.880] say it's not real. I don't know. It just
[02:26:06.479] looks like a stick. But the the biblical
[02:26:09.200] like uh descriptions of it are that it
[02:26:11.760] turned into a serpent serpent at one
[02:26:13.520] point. You know, this is what parted the
[02:26:15.520] Red Sea. H go to the Mount Ararat stuff
[02:26:20.399] because the Mount Ararat stuff is really
[02:26:22.080] weird. There there's even like a whole
[02:26:24.399] touristy center that you can go there
[02:26:26.000] where they describe it as being the the
[02:26:28.399] the landing spot of Noah's Ark. But
[02:26:30.800] apparently
[02:26:32.080] >> what's weird is the um analysis of the
[02:26:37.680] ground underneath it and that there's
[02:26:40.319] organic material that aligns with the
[02:26:43.680] the dimensions of the boat.
[02:26:45.680] >> No way.
[02:26:46.479] >> Yeah, it's really weird. Well, just the
[02:26:48.960] object itself, like whatever the
[02:26:50.800] this is in eastern Turkey.
[02:26:52.560] >> Yes, it's on Mount Ar.
[02:26:54.880] >> Just the dimensions itself.
[02:26:57.200] weird.
[02:26:58.319] >> Like what is that thing that's up there?
[02:27:00.880] And so when they anal analyze it, like
[02:27:03.120] you see it, it has like what appears to
[02:27:05.680] be chambers and then also what what
[02:27:08.319] appears to be the remnants of some sort
[02:27:10.399] of organic material, which would be wood
[02:27:12.960] that was dis that was used in
[02:27:14.960] construction of this thing.
[02:27:16.240] >> That's silly. There was something recent
[02:27:17.680] about it though. Um, see if you can find
[02:27:20.479] like news. Go to news.
[02:27:22.319] >> This is what I thought I saw. I saw this
[02:27:23.920] and I don't uh I just seen this video
[02:27:26.560] where someone's inside and they're
[02:27:28.720] claiming this has got to be a claim cuz
[02:27:30.960] I don't know that
[02:27:33.520] how they got here and where this video
[02:27:35.359] came from.
[02:27:35.680] >> He's going
[02:27:38.319] and like [laughter] showing think when
[02:27:40.399] you get down here they show like pieces
[02:27:41.920] of wood. That's Noah's dick. [laughter]
[02:27:45.120] >> Yeah, he's showing pieces of wood
[02:27:47.680] >> or what looks I mean it's uh
[02:27:49.760] >> Noah arc scans. [laughter]
[02:27:52.479] >> God, how much wood is left from 2,000
[02:27:54.960] years ago or more?
[02:27:57.359] >> Piece on Instagram, I think, where it
[02:27:58.640] was not the entire 45minute video.
[02:28:00.800] >> There was some news of the analysis of
[02:28:03.920] that that I saw online.
[02:28:09.359] >> April 22nd. This my bet.
[02:28:11.520] >> Researcher believes Noah's arc found in
[02:28:13.040] Turkey after new underground scans.
[02:28:15.520] Yeah. So, researchers working in Turkey
[02:28:18.160] say fresh scan data, this is from April,
[02:28:20.720] uncovered what appears to be tunnels
[02:28:22.240] inside the long debated landform
[02:28:24.479] bolstering their case the site may be a
[02:28:26.560] man-made object they believe to be
[02:28:28.640] Noah's Ark. I do believe this is a real
[02:28:31.200] decayed buried remnants of Noah's Ark,
[02:28:33.600] the famous ship. And we're doing our
[02:28:35.040] best to convince the skeptics and show
[02:28:37.520] the world this site. The tricky thing is
[02:28:40.880] for carbon dating you do need organic
[02:28:43.359] material.
[02:28:44.960] >> Oh yeah. And not only that, it's like
[02:28:47.840] the tricky thing is like the whole story
[02:28:49.760] doesn't make sense. You
[02:28:51.120] >> take two of each animal and then what
[02:28:53.280] happens? Animals eat other animals. So
[02:28:54.960] how does that work out?
[02:28:55.920] >> You you've got to
[02:28:56.800] >> you know in the Bible they're supposedly
[02:28:58.319] waited they waited until the animals uh
[02:29:01.120] gave birth to a bunch of different
[02:29:02.720] before they ate them.
[02:29:03.680] >> It's insane.
[02:29:04.399] >> Okay. What [laughter]
[02:29:06.080] what are you a kid?
[02:29:09.040] It's this like I mean it literally
[02:29:11.040] sounds like you know like a child wrote
[02:29:14.080] a story.
[02:29:14.560] >> It's very very goofy. But then you get
[02:29:16.240] into the fact that there are like 400 or
[02:29:18.399] so flood myths across disperate cultures
[02:29:20.560] some of whom never had contact with one
[02:29:22.560] another.
[02:29:23.120] >> Yes, definitely. And then you also get
[02:29:25.760] into the idea that it's not maybe the
[02:29:28.880] whole world that flooded. It's this
[02:29:30.720] immediate area. And that this idea of he
[02:29:33.280] took two of each animal. Maybe he just
[02:29:35.120] took enough animals so he could sustain
[02:29:38.000] agriculture afterwards and these other
[02:29:39.760] animals did not go extinct. And then
[02:29:41.680] maybe the story over time becomes he got
[02:29:45.040] giraffes walk there from Africa.
[02:29:48.960] Like where where are you getting horses?
[02:29:50.560] You know, how how are you getting
[02:29:51.760] eagles? Like how you getting everybody
[02:29:53.280] on this thing? It doesn't even make
[02:29:55.200] sense.
[02:29:55.600] >> And real discoveries are often motivated
[02:29:57.920] by myth. like motivated by Homer and
[02:30:00.960] Herododus stories about the pelpeneisian
[02:30:03.760] war. You had this guy German businessman
[02:30:05.920] Hinrich von Schlimman spent all his
[02:30:08.319] money looking for Troy and he eventually
[02:30:10.479] found it.
[02:30:11.120] >> Yeah. Which is wild.
[02:30:12.080] >> Wild. Another story would be you know um
[02:30:15.120] Plato talking about this flood. He's
[02:30:17.840] talking about it in the Atlantis
[02:30:19.520] context. Obviously it's a it's a
[02:30:20.960] dialogue. Um, and it's I think the Tmus
[02:30:23.680] and Creta dialogue and this is told at a
[02:30:26.880] mythos festival uh 600 BC and they say
[02:30:29.920] 9,000 years ago this great flood
[02:30:31.600] happened and then you line it up and
[02:30:32.720] that that's melt water pulse 1b which is
[02:30:34.880] probably the flood that got us out of
[02:30:36.319] the ice age. So to discount myth
[02:30:39.600] entirely as like non-historical I think
[02:30:42.319] is throwing the baby out with the
[02:30:43.359] bathwater.
[02:30:44.000] >> Right. The timeline aligns with the
[02:30:45.920] great with the theory of the younger dus
[02:30:48.319] impact theory.
[02:30:49.280] >> Exactly. the great flood and the younger
[02:30:51.200] Jus impact theory align with the
[02:30:53.680] timeline that Plato how the could
[02:30:56.000] Plato have known when he's saying 9,000
[02:30:57.920] years like how how is it so perfectly
[02:31:00.560] aligned
[02:31:01.040] >> bad on it seems a little convenient
[02:31:02.640] >> yeah I think if there was a Noah's arc
[02:31:05.439] it was probably well first of all how
[02:31:08.319] does he know it's coming how long does
[02:31:10.160] it take to make this boat you know
[02:31:11.680] that's where it gets really weird like
[02:31:12.960] does this guy actually have a
[02:31:14.240] premonition is he actually like attuned
[02:31:16.800] to some sort of psychic energy or does
[02:31:20.560] God or for lack of a better term
[02:31:23.120] actually talk to this guy and say, "Hey
[02:31:25.200] dude,
[02:31:25.920] >> some is about to go down." And
[02:31:27.520] didn't it take him
[02:31:30.160] >> I want to say the biblical account is it
[02:31:32.640] took him a hundred years to make it.
[02:31:34.800] >> Oh, I don't even know. I know that is
[02:31:36.640] back when they were like living for
[02:31:38.479] hundreds and
[02:31:39.439] >> hundreds of years 77 years old and was
[02:31:43.359] 182 when he had Noah. normal [laughter]
[02:31:46.319] >> normal stuff was us.
[02:31:48.000] >> David Sinclair, help us. Let's get back
[02:31:49.600] there.
[02:31:50.000] >> Well, this is this is the real thought
[02:31:53.280] is if David Sinclair is correct, and I
[02:31:55.760] think he is, if they can figure out a
[02:31:58.640] way to uh somehow another access
[02:32:02.880] whatever part of the human genome allows
[02:32:04.880] us to age or causes us to age and
[02:32:06.800] reverse that or change that. How do we
[02:32:09.520] not know that? If you got a civilization
[02:32:11.439] that could build the pyramids, how do we
[02:32:13.200] not know that these people were also
[02:32:15.280] capable of extending lifespan?
[02:32:17.680] >> 100%. Yeah. And if knowledge gets lost
[02:32:20.080] and we're now figuring out Horvath
[02:32:22.800] clocks, DNA methylation clocks,
[02:32:24.640] biological age versus chronological age,
[02:32:27.280] I'm sure you talked to Brighgam about
[02:32:29.120] all sorts of like novel crazy things
[02:32:31.200] he's looking into with stem cells, you
[02:32:33.120] know, and the amazing things they do.
[02:32:35.120] Like why was that not necessarily
[02:32:38.000] discovered before and just erased from
[02:32:39.760] the historical record?
[02:32:40.880] >> Easily could have been if if there is a
[02:32:43.359] cataclysmic disaster and we do have a
[02:32:46.080] hyper advanced civilization that's
[02:32:47.680] capable of engineering feats that we
[02:32:49.439] still can't replicate today which I
[02:32:51.200] think is the case because there's a lot
[02:32:52.800] of people say we could build the
[02:32:53.920] pyramids today. you. Okay.
[02:32:56.720] you. No one has. Go do it. Go do it.
[02:33:00.000] Shut your mouth. The biblical account,
[02:33:02.000] Noah and his family were in the ark for
[02:33:04.640] about a year, often calculated as
[02:33:06.880] roughly 370 days. Wow, they were in that
[02:33:08.960] boat for a year.
[02:33:10.240] >> That's [laughter] crazy,
[02:33:11.040] >> bro. That sucks. You think those guys,
[02:33:13.280] they're stuck in Iran have it bad? Uh,
[02:33:15.840] Genesis dates their entry to the 17th
[02:33:18.479] day of the second month of Noah's 600th
[02:33:21.520] year and their exit on the 27th day of
[02:33:25.359] the second month of his 601st year. It
[02:33:28.560] rained for 40 days and 40 nights.
[02:33:31.760] Um,
[02:33:33.600] how long did it take him to build the
[02:33:35.200] ark? Says 120 years. Does not give a pre
[02:33:40.800] precise construction time. The commonly
[02:33:43.600] repeated 120 years is a traditional
[02:33:46.080] interpretation of Genesis 6:3 rather
[02:33:49.040] than explicit statement that
[02:33:50.960] construction itself lasted 120 years. M
[02:33:54.399] >> m well it's all you know you're getting
[02:33:57.200] into when you're getting into ages like
[02:33:58.640] that what's really weird is it's not
[02:34:00.800] just the Christian Bible or the Old
[02:34:03.920] Testament or that has these long
[02:34:06.960] extended lifespans that's where you get
[02:34:09.600] really weird because both the ancient
[02:34:11.680] Egyptians when you know the zeppedi and
[02:34:15.040] then when you get into the ancient
[02:34:16.720] Samrian kings list like they when you go
[02:34:19.760] the further back these
[02:34:21.520] were living thousands and thousands of
[02:34:23.520] years raining for thousands of years and
[02:34:26.080] then after the flood
[02:34:28.640] >> you start seeing ages align with modern
[02:34:31.439] human ages
[02:34:32.800] >> which is really weird
[02:34:35.359] >> really weird
[02:34:36.720] >> it's like okay what and so the way
[02:34:39.439] archaeologists dismiss it they say oh
[02:34:41.520] that was just myth okay but but you're
[02:34:44.399] along with this myth particular with the
[02:34:46.399] Samrians you have actual historical
[02:34:50.000] kings that had actual historical reigns
[02:34:53.280] that are depicted in the same the same
[02:34:56.399] texts. So like what's going on 100% and
[02:35:00.240] there I I think natural selection is a
[02:35:03.920] real theory. There are people who like
[02:35:05.520] deny it and I think it is a locally
[02:35:07.280] extremely useful legit theory but
[02:35:10.240] there's a great philosopher of uh
[02:35:12.319] science called Carl Pauper and he had
[02:35:14.399] this whole thing of he called them
[02:35:15.760] materialist promisory notes where you
[02:35:17.840] have issues in evolution natural
[02:35:20.399] selection you have punctuated equilibria
[02:35:23.120] this sort of rapid speciation in the
[02:35:24.960] fossil record things that are very hard
[02:35:26.880] to explain and we just like to fill in
[02:35:28.800] the gaps and we don't know you know
[02:35:31.040] there was actually a really interesting
[02:35:32.880] um German uh guy named I think it was
[02:35:35.920] Richard Goldmid and he had this idea of
[02:35:38.319] he was an evolutionary theorist and he
[02:35:40.240] had this idea of hopeful monsters and so
[02:35:42.319] you'd get these mating between
[02:35:44.160] interspecies so you know a mule would be
[02:35:46.800] a good example or like a tiger and a l
[02:35:49.200] like a liger and every once once in a
[02:35:51.359] while like it would like hit this
[02:35:52.800] ecological niche and like you know
[02:35:54.880] actually make sense for the local
[02:35:56.720] ecology and then it would sort of
[02:35:58.560] persist and I think he's largely been
[02:36:01.040] debunked but I spoke with this DARPA
[02:36:03.760] dude
[02:36:04.560] who was like, I can say this because I
[02:36:07.600] we didn't end up pursuing it, but you
[02:36:09.520] know the movie The Shape of Water, the
[02:36:11.600] GMO del Torto, he was like at one point
[02:36:13.920] we were thinking about stuff like that,
[02:36:16.880] like interspecies.
[02:36:18.800] Yeah. Yeah. And I don't I don't know if
[02:36:20.080] it was like humans and other species,
[02:36:21.760] but it was like inspired by this guy
[02:36:24.080] Richard Goldmitt. Well, you know, the
[02:36:26.319] Russians were considering making a
[02:36:28.160] hybrid between a human and a champ
[02:36:30.000] chimpanzeee for war.
[02:36:31.760] >> That's crazy. I know Putin's talked
[02:36:33.200] about killer dolphins. [laughter]
[02:36:35.760] >> No, this was uh God, was it World War
[02:36:38.479] II? It was World War II, right? So, it
[02:36:40.880] was World War II. Um,
[02:36:43.840] who was it? Was it Stalin?
[02:36:46.720] >> That's crazy.
[02:36:47.520] >> Uh, well,
[02:36:48.479] >> do we don't know if we would know
[02:36:49.840] officially. I just remember the guy was
[02:36:51.920] doing it on his own for sure.
[02:36:53.439] >> Would have been Stalin told him to do
[02:36:54.960] it. I don't remember.
[02:36:55.760] >> See, see if you can find it. So they
[02:36:58.399] were So the idea was like, look, Russia
[02:37:00.960] lost like 20 million men during World
[02:37:04.800] War II. And I think the idea is like,
[02:37:07.600] why wouldn't it be better if people
[02:37:09.200] didn't die? Why don't we develop
[02:37:11.120] warriors? And so I think they were
[02:37:13.760] trying to make a human chimpanzee hybrid
[02:37:17.120] specifically designed for wolves. Now,
[02:37:19.680] like I don't know if it was official cuz
[02:37:21.520] he got in
[02:37:22.319] >> he got in trouble for uh seeking vol
[02:37:24.960] like um not telling the female
[02:37:26.800] volunteers what was going on.
[02:37:28.240] >> Oh Jesus.
[02:37:29.600] >> Could you imagine?
[02:37:30.960] >> Stay put honey. I'm just going to stick
[02:37:32.880] something up there and wonderful things
[02:37:34.640] will happen.
[02:37:35.439] >> Jesus Christ.
[02:37:36.560] >> Notorious Soviet era attempt, but no
[02:37:38.880] human ape hybrids were ever created. But
[02:37:40.880] yes, it was a real attempt. Russian
[02:37:43.040] Soviet biology Ilia evenov proposed
[02:37:46.080] using artificial insemination to test
[02:37:47.920] whether humans and great apes could
[02:37:49.680] produce offspring in the mid 1920s.
[02:37:52.479] Okay, so it was um after World War I. Uh
[02:37:56.000] Soviet support, he traveled to French
[02:37:58.160] Guinea and inseminated several female
[02:38:00.800] chimpanzees with human sperm. None
[02:38:03.760] became pregnant. He later sought to
[02:38:05.920] reverse the experiment by inseminating
[02:38:07.439] women with ape sperm. Historical
[02:38:10.000] accounts indicate he considered doing so
[02:38:12.160] without consent in Guinea, but colonial
[02:38:14.560] authorities blocked the plan. Back in
[02:38:16.960] Russia, he sought female volunteers, but
[02:38:20.000] the available adult male ape died before
[02:38:22.560] the procedure could occur. So, no such
[02:38:24.319] insemination proced proceeded.
[02:38:27.040] >> Sounds like a great person.
[02:38:29.120] >> Yeah. What great guy, wonderful dude.
[02:38:31.840] But it's like kind of crazy that that
[02:38:34.319] was I mean imagine if it worked and then
[02:38:36.880] they just created like a million of them
[02:38:40.640] and just armed them.
[02:38:42.800] >> Well, also where are we headed with
[02:38:45.439] Crisper and the ability to, you know,
[02:38:48.560] go,
[02:38:49.200] >> right? Well, also what the is going
[02:38:50.960] to stop them from turning around and
[02:38:53.040] taking over Russia?
[02:38:54.640] >> Like why would they listen to you,
[02:38:56.319] >> right?
[02:38:56.800] >> Like they have you're giving them guns.
[02:38:59.120] They're way more violent. They're super
[02:39:00.960] territorial. They're way stronger. And
[02:39:03.120] also, they're gonna recognize that you
[02:39:05.280] made them to go die. And they're going
[02:39:07.680] to be really resentful of these
[02:39:10.319] pink little fleshy water
[02:39:12.560] balloons of of meat and tissue that are
[02:39:15.520] so vulnerable compared to them.
[02:39:17.870] [laughter]
[02:39:18.240] >> It's like, yeah, it's like you created
[02:39:19.920] me. It's like it's Planet of the Apes.
[02:39:22.000] >> It's it's Planet of the Apes. It's it's
[02:39:23.840] also the way people talk about AI. It's
[02:39:25.760] like very analogous.
[02:39:27.120] >> Very much so. Very much so. Yeah. It's
[02:39:30.240] uh we are always meddling.
[02:39:32.880] >> We're always meddling.
[02:39:34.399] >> But which makes me think something more
[02:39:37.120] advanced would probably meddle with us.
[02:39:39.280] That's right.
[02:39:39.680] >> Just do it a little bit more subtly.
[02:39:41.600] >> And they would do it at the bound. Like
[02:39:44.399] it makes sense that UFOs to me would
[02:39:46.080] show up around nuclear sites because
[02:39:47.600] those are the Archimedes lever of
[02:39:50.240] destruction on those are the points of
[02:39:52.319] most leverage, the hinge points of
[02:39:54.640] civilizational collapse. It is not a
[02:39:56.960] coincidence that Mario and Michael were
[02:39:58.960] abducted at Ellsworth Air Force Base and
[02:40:00.560] saw this thing hovering above a live
[02:40:02.240] hydrogen bomb. [laughter]
[02:40:04.240] >> That feels like it makes sense.
[02:40:06.560] >> Yeah.
[02:40:07.040] >> You know, and it like if you were
[02:40:08.560] governing a system, you would look at
[02:40:11.359] those nodes,
[02:40:12.479] >> right?
[02:40:12.960] >> You look at the actually there's a a
[02:40:14.640] great neuroscientist named Don Hoffman
[02:40:17.040] and he says if you're like guarding if
[02:40:19.200] you're a simulator and you're guarding
[02:40:20.560] the simulation, you look at the exit
[02:40:22.479] paths. So I think about two exit paths
[02:40:24.960] in our sort of simulation. One would be
[02:40:27.359] high energy physics. So particle
[02:40:29.520] accelerators, high voltage
[02:40:30.960] experimentation and nuclear like really
[02:40:34.160] like stuff where you're really pushing
[02:40:35.760] at the boundaries of spaceime. So I
[02:40:37.760] think that's why these things show up at
[02:40:39.040] national labs, nuclear sites, a lot of
[02:40:41.600] like really hardcore kind of
[02:40:42.880] experimentation and then consciousness.
[02:40:45.840] I think that would be the other exit
[02:40:47.280] path. And so that's why I think these
[02:40:48.880] things show up when we're sort of
[02:40:50.560] communing with this higher thing,
[02:40:52.399] >> right? And it also makes sense why they
[02:40:53.920] show up when you're sleeping,
[02:40:55.680] >> right? Like if you're having these
[02:40:58.000] encounters, like all these abduction
[02:40:59.840] experiences,
[02:41:01.359] the great many of them happen at night,
[02:41:04.319] >> right?
[02:41:04.720] >> Yeah. And it's an open question as to
[02:41:06.240] why is it evolutionarily adaptive as for
[02:41:08.880] us to sleep, right?
[02:41:10.080] >> It doesn't really make sense.
[02:41:11.439] >> It's terrible.
[02:41:12.479] >> It's terrible. And we're we sleep deeper
[02:41:14.640] than like most animals. And so we can be
[02:41:17.040] walked up on by predators and
[02:41:18.800] >> there's so many nocturnal predators.
[02:41:20.880] >> Absolutely. stupid idea.
[02:41:22.560] >> Why wouldn't that get selected out?
[02:41:24.160] Maybe something important happens during
[02:41:26.399] sleep. Like who knows?
[02:41:28.080] >> Yeah.
[02:41:28.399] >> But like it see it seems like
[02:41:30.319] >> Yeah. We don't understand any of that
[02:41:31.840] stuff. The dreaming sleeping and it's
[02:41:34.960] probably adaptive in some way we don't
[02:41:36.880] understand.
[02:41:37.760] >> Yeah. And like what is happening when
[02:41:40.160] we're sleeping? I told you about my
[02:41:41.600] crazy dream. the one crazy dream that I
[02:41:43.680] had that still to this day kind of it's
[02:41:46.160] very foggy now because it's months and
[02:41:48.080] months after the fact. But that the day
[02:41:50.720] of that dream I was shook
[02:41:53.120] >> that almost
[02:41:53.680] >> I was really shook.
[02:41:55.040] >> It almost feels like uh if I were to
[02:41:57.840] analyze that dream it's like uh they
[02:42:00.880] were giving meat to these crocodiles in
[02:42:04.160] the water or something. So it was like
[02:42:06.720] it was like our limbic sort of reptilian
[02:42:09.520] cuz in every man you have your sort of
[02:42:11.120] reptile self and then you have your like
[02:42:12.880] more aspirational self or something and
[02:42:15.520] maybe they were sort of like holding
[02:42:17.600] that at bay and they were you said to me
[02:42:20.240] you were like these beings these like
[02:42:22.319] future human alien looking beings were
[02:42:25.359] telling you like this is a brittle
[02:42:27.280] experiment like this whole thing you've
[02:42:29.680] got set up this could end tomorrow like
[02:42:31.680] we're here sort of protecting you.
[02:42:33.439] >> Yeah. There was a very flimsy barrier
[02:42:35.680] between the crocodiles and whatever was
[02:42:38.240] in the water. And uh I was like, "That's
[02:42:40.240] it. That's the only thing that's
[02:42:41.200] stopping. This is like a like like a
[02:42:42.720] like a traffic cone and some
[02:42:44.720] tape or something like that." Like some
[02:42:46.560] plastic bars. It was like not I don't
[02:42:48.560] remember specifically, but it was like I
[02:42:50.319] remember being very uncomfortable with
[02:42:52.479] how little protection there was to stop
[02:42:54.800] those things from coming out of the
[02:42:56.000] water.
[02:42:56.880] >> So fascinating.
[02:42:57.600] >> But also the weirdness of them like
[02:43:00.319] their bodies. They were like very
[02:43:02.399] slender and kind of tall, but like no
[02:43:05.920] muscle at all. Like no strength at all
[02:43:08.479] and larger heads and very oddlooking,
[02:43:11.439] almost Asian looking.
[02:43:13.600] >> Very weird. And they were playing with
[02:43:15.520] me a little bit like spooking me. Haha.
[02:43:17.603] [laughter]
[02:43:18.160] >> And it was very strange, but it was so
[02:43:20.560] vivid. That's the weird part.
[02:43:22.960] >> That's what's so trippy to me where I'm
[02:43:24.560] like maybe it was an experience. It's
[02:43:27.120] hard to say. It's impossible to
[02:43:29.280] declaratively say it wasn't right.
[02:43:31.680] >> Well, it's hard to know what a dream is
[02:43:33.200] in the first place.
[02:43:34.399] >> Yeah.
[02:43:34.720] >> Like what is going on when you have
[02:43:36.240] vivid dreams in the first place?
[02:43:38.080] >> Totally. Yeah. What? Yeah. What is that?
[02:43:39.680] >> It seems like you're working out
[02:43:40.880] problems. Like a lot of times people are
[02:43:42.880] working out issues and they're why they
[02:43:44.479] say sleep on it.
[02:43:45.760] >> I think there's something to that old
[02:43:47.760] wives, you know, the the old wisdom of
[02:43:50.240] sleep on it. It's almost like you're
[02:43:52.880] because it does feel like sometimes like
[02:43:55.520] issues that you have come up in sleep,
[02:43:57.600] but you're almost like metabolizing them
[02:43:59.359] or you're like you're you're like
[02:44:01.200] working them out by experiencing them,
[02:44:03.279] but in like a padded walls sort of way
[02:44:06.000] in the dream where like you don't want
[02:44:07.760] to work that out in 3D reality. And so
[02:44:09.680] it's sort of adaptive in that sense or
[02:44:11.439] something
[02:44:12.000] >> maybe. I don't know.
[02:44:13.120] >> Who knows? Yeah.
[02:44:13.920] >> But it's weird that I've had so many
[02:44:15.439] dreams that have been, you know, even
[02:44:17.120] crazy dreams like, "Wow, that was nuts."
[02:44:19.040] But nothing like kept me from going back
[02:44:21.040] to sleep.
[02:44:21.760] >> Yeah, that's what's so trippy about it
[02:44:23.120] is like you went and worked out right
[02:44:24.640] after. Right.
[02:44:25.120] >> I had I could not sleep. I laid in bed
[02:44:27.040] for like an hour afterwards trying to go
[02:44:28.960] back to sleep. I'm like I am not going
[02:44:30.720] back to sleep. Like whatever the
[02:44:32.240] that was was way too real. Like way more
[02:44:35.279] real than any dream I'd had before.
[02:44:37.359] >> If I was an alien or a future human, I
[02:44:39.600] would definitely visit you. [laughter]
[02:44:42.399] Whatever it is, it it if I mean whether
[02:44:45.040] or not it's my imagination just hit a
[02:44:47.279] burst of like serotonin and dopamine and
[02:44:50.240] neurochemicals and DMT or whatever it
[02:44:53.600] was that created this very vivid thing.
[02:44:55.840] It's either that my super hyperactive
[02:44:58.800] imagination or an encounter. It's hard
[02:45:01.600] to know what it was, but what it was was
[02:45:04.000] very different than any other dream that
[02:45:05.920] I've ever had before.
[02:45:07.120] >> Yeah. Well, I that's I think that's a
[02:45:10.000] beautiful like that's all you can say
[02:45:11.439] about it.
[02:45:12.000] >> Yeah. I mean, but that's being honest.
[02:45:13.680] Yeah. And that's but it also is the
[02:45:15.760] problem with someone having a legitimate
[02:45:17.840] experience. Like how much do they
[02:45:19.359] elaborate? How much do they expand? How
[02:45:22.399] much do they try to justify their
[02:45:23.840] experience rather than saying I don't
[02:45:25.760] know what the that was?
[02:45:27.439] >> Yeah, totally. I think I think in many
[02:45:29.200] cases the honest thing is I I don't
[02:45:31.920] know. I don't know what the beings were.
[02:45:33.359] I don't know where they were from. And
[02:45:34.479] it's so interesting that we snap to grid
[02:45:37.520] all of these experiences into this sort
[02:45:39.359] of alien motif. And it's why the
[02:45:41.520] Pentagon now uses nonhuman intelligence,
[02:45:44.080] which sounds kind of ridiculous because
[02:45:45.520] it could be AI or an animal or
[02:45:47.680] something. But
[02:45:48.479] >> I wonder why they changed that.
[02:45:50.000] >> I think they changed it because they
[02:45:51.520] don't know definitively that it's
[02:45:53.120] extraterrestrial.
[02:45:54.720] And the office that I think in bad faith
[02:45:57.040] likes to debunk this stuff, the all
[02:45:58.560] domain anomalies resolution office that
[02:46:00.479] just likes to pour core. It's the modern
[02:46:01.920] blue book basically. They often say we
[02:46:04.720] have no evidence of extraterrestrial
[02:46:07.200] visit visitation because they they hinge
[02:46:10.160] it on that conclusion. That is a
[02:46:12.640] conclusion.
[02:46:13.760] >> There's a lot of anomalous data. There's
[02:46:15.279] stuff showing up at our nuclear sites
[02:46:16.720] everywhere.
[02:46:17.359] >> Donald Trump reportedly told inner
[02:46:19.040] circle aliens are living in Earth's
[02:46:20.960] oceans.
[02:46:22.479] >> I've heard he said that too. That als he
[02:46:24.319] alluded to that. Remember the Jersey
[02:46:25.760] drone flap in November of 2024? He kind
[02:46:27.920] of alluded to that. He goes, "We know
[02:46:29.200] they're coming from a garage. It's a
[02:46:30.880] weird place.
[02:46:32.080] >> It's a garage. We have no idea what they
[02:46:34.560] are, but they're in the ocean."
[02:46:36.080] >> This is according to Jack Osborne who
[02:46:39.040] said, [clears throat] I think to Andy
[02:46:40.160] Stumpf, and he said that he has got a
[02:46:43.359] friend that talks to Trump frequently.
[02:46:46.479] >> So, tell him stuff.
[02:46:47.760] >> I know Jack Source actually, and uh so
[02:46:51.790] [laughter]
[02:46:52.399] >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I don't think he's
[02:46:54.240] lying.
[02:46:55.680] >> Well, this is also what multiple people
[02:46:58.720] have said that there's something in the
[02:47:00.880] ocean, you know, and this is
[02:47:03.279] >> Yeah. No, I I just had on the um Navy's
[02:47:07.120] chief oceanographer who we just talked
[02:47:08.800] about. He was head of Noah.
[02:47:10.479] >> Yeah, I saw that.
[02:47:11.439] >> Yeah. And um you know, he talks about
[02:47:14.720] tons and tons of sightings. Tons of Navy
[02:47:16.720] sightings. I mean, the the three
[02:47:18.000] sightings that were popularized, the
[02:47:19.680] videos that were popularized in the 2017
[02:47:22.240] New York Times article, which is whether
[02:47:24.240] you like that article or not, they got
[02:47:25.840] some things wrong, very responsible for
[02:47:27.760] a lot of the modern kind of disclosure
[02:47:30.080] movement.
[02:47:31.520] >> Very responsible for people all of a
[02:47:33.439] sudden taking it seriously.
[02:47:34.720] >> 100%. Yeah, it slapped that credibility
[02:47:37.040] onto the whole issue. Those were Navy
[02:47:39.279] cases. Those were all Navy cases. The
[02:47:40.880] Nimtts sighting, Go Fast, and Gimble
[02:47:42.800] were all Navy. And so, yeah, there's a
[02:47:45.120] long history. I mean the bluegill triple
[02:47:46.479] prime thing I mentioned with Harold
[02:47:47.680] Malgrren was Navy as well. You know you
[02:47:49.920] have Tim Bchett saying there are five or
[02:47:51.520] six hot spots you know on on ocean
[02:47:54.160] floors and then you have Bob Lazar
[02:47:56.080] saying you know actually that was taken
[02:47:57.840] out of context. You know people are
[02:47:59.680] saying the craft he worked on the sports
[02:48:02.000] model was found in an archaeological
[02:48:03.760] dig. It was actually found on the
[02:48:05.279] seafloor.
[02:48:06.800] Yeah. And I think the office of naval
[02:48:08.880] intelligence knows a lot about this
[02:48:10.319] whole time. In fact Jay Stratton
[02:48:11.760] >> where where was the information that it
[02:48:13.200] was found on the seafloor? That's what
[02:48:14.640] he says. And I think he might have said
[02:48:16.399] bury his like
[02:48:17.439] >> Well, he said one of them came from an
[02:48:19.040] archaeological dig.
[02:48:20.319] >> Yes.
[02:48:20.960] >> But it wasn't the sport model.
[02:48:23.439] >> I think I thought it was Oh, I don't
[02:48:25.680] know if it was Maybe it wasn't one of
[02:48:27.200] them. It wasn't the sport model.
[02:48:29.600] >> He said one of them I was told actually
[02:48:32.160] came from an archaeological dig and it's
[02:48:34.160] really old.
[02:48:34.800] >> It might have not been the sport model,
[02:48:36.080] but that's the other weird thing.
[02:48:37.359] >> But he said it was the seafloor. The
[02:48:38.960] labyrinth
[02:48:40.319] >> that Herodus described. There's a
[02:48:42.640] 40meter long tic tacshaped metallic
[02:48:46.240] object that's inside of some sort of an
[02:48:48.880] atrium that's underground. Just a 40 m
[02:48:51.920] long piece of metal that's thousands and
[02:48:54.399] thousands of years old. Like what are
[02:48:55.760] you talking about? [laughter]
[02:48:56.960] >> It's so crazy.
[02:48:57.760] >> How the do they have 40 m of metal
[02:48:59.520] back then?
[02:49:00.560] >> Like what is that?
[02:49:01.600] >> It's so crazy.
[02:49:02.319] >> 40 m is nuts.
[02:49:03.760] >> It's so nuts.
[02:49:04.479] >> 40 m is almost a half a football field.
[02:49:06.640] >> That's huge. That's massive
[02:49:08.720] piece of metal.
[02:49:09.439] >> It's vertical.
[02:49:10.240] >> I do not know.
[02:49:11.200] >> Okay.
[02:49:11.920] >> I do not know, but it's uh it's shaped
[02:49:14.240] like, you know, like a craft.
[02:49:17.120] >> The other crazy thing
[02:49:18.240] >> Imagine there's a UFO under
[02:49:19.920] Egypt. You just got to dig and go get
[02:49:21.600] it.
[02:49:22.000] >> That'd be so wild. Well, the crazy thing
[02:49:24.479] um I know you've had you're referring to
[02:49:26.399] a lot of Ben Van Kirkwick's amazing
[02:49:28.080] work. He's been on your show a bunch. He
[02:49:30.160] I think went to Danderea and the
[02:49:32.479] hieroglyphics there like translate to
[02:49:35.040] Stargate.
[02:49:35.840] >> Yes. That's crazy.
[02:49:37.279] >> Like what? [laughter]
[02:49:39.359] >> And then I think Stargate, you know,
[02:49:41.279] takes place at the py the pyramid is
[02:49:43.120] literally a portal. And then if you
[02:49:44.880] combine that with the Christopher Dunn
[02:49:46.720] stuff or the Beyond stuff where either
[02:49:48.880] it's a, you know, a generator of
[02:49:50.960] electricity or there's this other guy,
[02:49:52.319] amazing guy Jeffrey Drum who talks about
[02:49:54.080] it as a chemical manufacturing plant.
[02:49:56.880] you know, like something was being done
[02:49:59.600] there and maybe it had to do with some
[02:50:01.680] transcendent, you know, and then it
[02:50:03.600] obviously, you know, somewhat maps to
[02:50:05.040] Orion's belt as well. So, I don't know.
[02:50:07.359] Maybe. And then Orion's belt is the
[02:50:08.880] pathway that souls took in ancient
[02:50:11.120] times.
[02:50:12.000] >> Oh,
[02:50:12.800] >> yeah. [laughter]
[02:50:15.680] >> It's I never get tired of the subject.
[02:50:18.160] >> It's so fun.
[02:50:18.800] >> As long as there's new information that
[02:50:20.160] comes out, they got me hooked forever.
[02:50:21.680] It's like a stupid soap opera that I'll
[02:50:23.359] watch till I die.
[02:50:24.319] >> Yeah. No, I feel the same. It's it's so
[02:50:26.880] like and it's always like the the cast
[02:50:29.439] of there's so much drama too and
[02:50:31.439] disclosure and stuff and it's just I
[02:50:34.160] don't know it's I I I I I do hope I do
[02:50:36.319] think in our lifetime we're going to
[02:50:37.520] make a lot of progress on it.
[02:50:38.800] >> This is Herodotus's I hope so.
[02:50:41.120] Herodotus's description had 12 roofs
[02:50:44.640] roofed course uh courts god I can't talk
[02:50:47.680] arranged in two rows six facing north
[02:50:49.680] and six south all enclosed by one outer
[02:50:52.399] law out outer wall. It contained 3,000
[02:50:55.279] chambers, 1,500 above ground and 1500
[02:50:58.720] underground. Herata say he toured the
[02:51:00.800] upper chambers himself, but Egyptian
[02:51:02.399] custodians refused to show the lower
[02:51:05.040] ones. They reportedly held the tombs of
[02:51:07.760] the original royal builders and of
[02:51:10.479] sacred crocodiles.
[02:51:14.240] >> What?
[02:51:14.720] >> What?
[02:51:15.680] >> That's [laughter] so nuts,
[02:51:16.880] >> bro. That brings back to my stupid
[02:51:18.479] dream.
[02:51:18.880] >> I I was literally thinking that. Yeah.
[02:51:20.800] He emphasizes its bewildering internal
[02:51:23.680] circulation. Visitors passed from courts
[02:51:26.319] to chambers, chambers to colonades, and
[02:51:30.080] then to further rooms and courts. Its
[02:51:33.200] roof was stone. Its walls bore carved
[02:51:36.560] figures. And each court was ringed by
[02:51:39.520] precisely fitted white stone columns.
[02:51:42.399] >> And Ply the Elder also had an account of
[02:51:45.439] this thing. like this was
[02:51:47.200] >> well it's I mean also like with ground
[02:51:48.960] penetrating radar they know it exists
[02:51:51.680] these chambers actually do exist and
[02:51:53.600] that's the weird thing about whatever
[02:51:55.040] that metallic object is they they can
[02:51:57.840] and they don't know what metal it is
[02:51:59.359] either it's not it doesn't resonate like
[02:52:01.040] aluminum or iron they don't know what
[02:52:02.640] the it is
[02:52:03.439] >> that's so wild
[02:52:05.279] >> labyrinth surpasses even the pyramids
[02:52:08.000] >> wow
[02:52:08.399] >> he says I saw this myself I found it
[02:52:10.479] greater than words can say
[02:52:12.160] >> that is so [laughter] wild
[02:52:14.960] that is so Imagine saying something's
[02:52:16.960] greater than the pyramids and it's under
[02:52:18.479] the ground.
[02:52:18.960] >> And you are the preeminent Greek
[02:52:20.640] historian. Like you're writing about all
[02:52:22.319] the craziest
[02:52:23.600] >> and you're writing about it from a
[02:52:25.040] firsthand perspective. It's not like he
[02:52:27.279] heard a story.
[02:52:28.399] >> Yeah. You're you're you've seen it.
[02:52:30.000] >> Yeah. This isn't like Homer
[02:52:31.359] >> of writing. I was watching old older Lex
[02:52:34.399] Freriedman podcast and this linguist
[02:52:36.080] guy. I haven't heard this discussed yet,
[02:52:38.240] especially with all the times we talked
[02:52:39.359] about. Go back. Have you ever seen this
[02:52:41.040] thing?
[02:52:41.760] >> What is that?
[02:52:43.520] Um [snorts]
[02:52:44.800] the way he describes it is it's like
[02:52:46.800] proving that they had language then
[02:52:50.000] because this is not CUNI form
[02:52:54.319] >> and the way he I mean they get it takes
[02:52:56.479] 30 minutes probably before they get to
[02:52:58.000] this and because he's breaking down what
[02:52:59.840] language is and how we got to it and he
[02:53:02.399] gives [clears throat] a very crazy
[02:53:04.319] explanation of language I had not heard
[02:53:06.399] which it's it's like um
[02:53:09.040] writing down sound
[02:53:11.680] >> in the same way that like a like a
[02:53:13.520] record is recording sound. You're
[02:53:15.680] writing down sounds
[02:53:17.920] >> and it's like it took a while for
[02:53:19.120] everybody to agree upon what all those
[02:53:20.319] sounds were so that you're all reading
[02:53:21.520] the same thing. And so Irving Finkele,
[02:53:24.000] scholar of ancient languages and
[02:53:25.279] longtime curator at the British Museum,
[02:53:27.120] renowned for his expertise in
[02:53:28.720] Mesopotamian history and uniform
[02:53:31.760] writing, believes this artifact from
[02:53:33.439] Gobeclet is evidence of the earliest
[02:53:35.600] form of writing dating back to around
[02:53:38.160] 11,600
[02:53:40.080] years ago. So he's saying like the way
[02:53:41.520] that the other stuff is reliefs that
[02:53:43.439] this was like a a stamped piece of clay
[02:53:46.479] that would have been, you know, some
[02:53:48.640] record of some sort saying something was
[02:53:50.800] done and this is like a verification of
[02:53:52.479] that. And this could have been some
[02:53:54.080] guy's last name. There's further
[02:53:56.240] breakdowns I've seen like maybe this
[02:53:57.600] snake is like the S sound and this could
[02:54:00.319] be some guy's name. Who knows what it
[02:54:02.160] really could mean, but this is going to,
[02:54:05.439] you know, 12,000 years ago when they
[02:54:08.000] thought we only were doing this for
[02:54:09.359] 3,000 or whatever.
[02:54:10.560] >> Trippy.
[02:54:11.279] >> Yeah, it's very weird. It's all very
[02:54:13.200] weird. The they're just a history that
[02:54:15.359] we know of with the human race. I mean,
[02:54:17.200] just when you get to these old
[02:54:18.960] structures that we know people made,
[02:54:21.279] like when did they make them and why?
[02:54:23.359] Like why what what is Goelette? What the
[02:54:26.319] is that? Like
[02:54:28.720] >> do you think we see a shift in our
[02:54:31.680] understanding of humanity and our place
[02:54:33.920] in the cosmos in our lifetime?
[02:54:36.479] >> Yeah. One funeral at a time.
[02:54:39.120] >> Yes. That's how science progresses.
[02:54:40.960] >> Uhhuh.
[02:54:41.439] >> Yeah.
[02:54:41.920] >> Yeah. I I think that's pretty accurate.
[02:54:44.080] >> One gatekeeper at a time.
[02:54:45.520] >> Yeah. These old they need
[02:54:47.439] to get out of the way. [laughter] I
[02:54:49.359] mean, I just think there's way too many
[02:54:50.640] of these people that have a vested
[02:54:51.920] interest in protecting a narrative that
[02:54:53.520] they've been they've been teaching,
[02:54:55.840] they've been writing books about.
[02:54:57.359] They've been they've been saying that
[02:54:59.840] they are the experts when you literally
[02:55:02.080] can't be. There's just not enough data.
[02:55:05.600] What every period in history like things
[02:55:09.359] get wholly overturned. So, if you can't
[02:55:11.359] point to one thing that's kind of
[02:55:12.560] heretical today that you agree with,
[02:55:14.240] then you're definitely on the wrong side
[02:55:15.600] of history.
[02:55:16.319] >> Yeah. We always say we're at the end of
[02:55:17.760] history scientifically, historically,
[02:55:19.520] and then it it always, you know,
[02:55:21.279] progresses and usually there's a that's
[02:55:23.359] when people are most saying we're at the
[02:55:25.840] end of history, you see a paradigm shift
[02:55:27.680] and everything just completely collapses
[02:55:29.520] and change. This is like the structure
[02:55:31.120] of scientific revolutions is written by
[02:55:32.720] a guy named Thomas who was actually
[02:55:34.960] he was friends with John Mack and he
[02:55:37.520] encouraged him to you know investigate
[02:55:39.359] the alien abduction stuff at at Harvard
[02:55:41.279] and he was he would say that there's a
[02:55:42.960] law of declining marginal returns in any
[02:55:45.279] scientific paradigm where you're just
[02:55:47.359] rounding out the the final margins on a
[02:55:49.760] theory and you're so sure of it you know
[02:55:51.520] like electromagnetism in the late 19th
[02:55:53.600] century and then boom you get total
[02:55:56.080] collapse because you know Max Plon
[02:55:58.319] figures out quanta you get the quantum
[02:55:59.840] revolution. And who's to say, who are
[02:56:02.240] you to say so smuggly that that's not
[02:56:05.120] going to happen now? Like, of course it
[02:56:07.200] will.
[02:56:07.840] >> Of course it will.
[02:56:08.960] >> It's just what always has happened.
[02:56:10.399] >> Yes. And much like the UFO thing with
[02:56:13.600] when it comes to t discussions about
[02:56:16.640] ancient history and the true history of
[02:56:19.120] the human race and what we really don't
[02:56:22.399] know the people that are the most smug
[02:56:26.399] and are the most sure of themselves are
[02:56:28.960] most certainly the most wrong.
[02:56:31.680] >> Yeah. Ex 100%.
[02:56:33.359] >> Yeah. Because I think the whole thing is
[02:56:35.120] weird. The UFO thing is weird and the
[02:56:38.319] ancient history thing is weird. Yeah,
[02:56:40.399] >> there's there's too many unanswered
[02:56:43.760] questions.
[02:56:44.479] >> Yeah.
[02:56:44.960] >> And the the answers that they have
[02:56:47.840] >> are really shitty. There's too many
[02:56:50.080] really shitty answers.
[02:56:51.439] >> This is kind of a weird analogy, but in
[02:56:53.439] like stockpicking, which is, you know,
[02:56:55.439] it's easy to get feedback on stock
[02:56:56.960] picking, like whether you're right or
[02:56:58.000] you're wrong, confidence can rise
[02:57:00.800] exponentially and accuracy rises very
[02:57:04.160] linearly and often plateaus. And so
[02:57:06.720] that's of I think it's the case in like
[02:57:08.399] you know in learning anything where like
[02:57:10.399] you get more and more and more
[02:57:11.439] confident. You're so sure of yourself
[02:57:13.520] and but your accuracy is only going like
[02:57:15.439] mildly up
[02:57:16.479] >> and it goes back to what we were talking
[02:57:18.080] about with like remote viewing and
[02:57:19.520] staying in flow state.
[02:57:20.640] >> Yes.
[02:57:20.960] >> It's like the you got to get out of your
[02:57:22.479] own way with everything.
[02:57:25.040] >> Totally. and and and sometime you know a
[02:57:27.200] great example is Maronei who is
[02:57:30.160] responsible for inventing the radio by
[02:57:31.920] most account him and Tesla right he
[02:57:35.120] tried to send a signal across the
[02:57:36.640] Atlantic and he thought that
[02:57:38.479] electromagnetic waves curved and so he
[02:57:41.279] was like you know I'm going to send the
[02:57:43.279] signal it's going to work he was
[02:57:44.640] entirely wrong about electromagnetic
[02:57:46.479] waves curving it just bounced off the
[02:57:49.600] ionosphere and then it landed across the
[02:57:51.840] Atlantic and the signal was received and
[02:57:53.760] so he was right because he was wrong.
[02:57:56.399] >> And how many, you know, cases are like
[02:57:59.359] that where, you know, did Graham Hancock
[02:58:01.600] find the ark of the covenant? No, he
[02:58:03.359] headed he headed in this general
[02:58:05.359] westerly direction of knowing that we
[02:58:08.319] have kind of amnesia as a civilization
[02:58:10.880] and he found something extremely
[02:58:12.399] special. You know, helped popularize the
[02:58:14.720] GBC tappy narrative and this whole
[02:58:16.880] younger dus period, you know, impact
[02:58:18.319] theory hypothesis. So, you have, you
[02:58:20.319] know, the same thing with James Bruce
[02:58:21.760] with the arc of the covenant. You can
[02:58:23.600] you can shoot for the stars and land on
[02:58:26.080] the moon, you know, and that's okay. But
[02:58:28.479] if you're just like this nitpicker like
[02:58:30.479] annoying, smug, you know, academic who's
[02:58:33.840] like arguing for the priestly citadel to
[02:58:36.160] be upheld, like what what is your
[02:58:37.680] contribution to humanity,
[02:58:39.200] >> right? [laughter]
[02:58:40.720] >> What are you doing?
[02:58:41.439] >> Yeah. And there's a lot of those.
[02:58:42.880] >> There's so many. Yeah. But I think even
[02:58:45.200] some of those people, and I'm not I'm
[02:58:47.840] not saying that all of the attributes I
[02:58:49.600] just mentioned apply to Neil Degrasse
[02:58:51.439] Tyson, but [laughter] but that some of
[02:58:54.160] some of those people are now updating on
[02:58:55.920] UFOs. And it's wild because like you
[02:58:59.200] have a documentary, you know, the age of
[02:59:01.200] disclosure where all these high ranking
[02:59:02.880] intel people are saying UFOs are real
[02:59:05.040] repeatedly in front of a chalkboard
[02:59:07.040] saying they are real. Take my word for
[02:59:08.880] it. And it's bludgeoning you basically
[02:59:11.200] to a point where you're like, "Okay,
[02:59:12.880] they're probably not like lying to me,
[02:59:15.120] you [laughter] know, and so and then you
[02:59:16.560] end up with Neil deGrasse Tyson being
[02:59:18.640] like, look, okay, it's there's an
[02:59:20.080] overwhelming amount of accounts now. Now
[02:59:21.920] I'm, you know, I do think there's
[02:59:23.120] probably something here and we should
[02:59:24.319] look into it." And it's like, dude, you
[02:59:26.160] weren't doing science before. But is all
[02:59:28.640] it took a documentary? That doesn't make
[02:59:30.160] any sense.
[02:59:30.880] >> No, it's criticism.
[02:59:32.240] >> Yeah.
[02:59:32.640] >> He's responding to overwhelming
[02:59:34.080] criticism of his intellectual capacity
[02:59:36.319] for reason.
[02:59:37.200] >> That's right. Yeah. Because I think like
[02:59:39.600] when he was on the podcast with me, I
[02:59:41.920] got very upset with him when he was
[02:59:43.359] like, "Why would they be interested in
[02:59:44.720] us?" And I I told him, I go, "That one
[02:59:47.520] drives me crazy." And I tried to explain
[02:59:49.680] why it drives me crazy. He kept
[02:59:50.960] interjecting and I'm like, "Okay."
[02:59:54.240] Yeah, just just stop. Just stop with
[02:59:56.720] that idea that we're not interesting.
[02:59:58.080] We're territorial apes with nuclear
[02:59:59.760] weapons who send FaceTime videos
[03:00:02.000] to people on the other side of the
[03:00:03.359] planet. [laughter]
[03:00:04.560] >> That's real weird.
[03:00:06.000] >> We're We're apes with nukes. Yeah, we're
[03:00:08.080] real weird.
[03:00:08.960] >> We're real weird.
[03:00:09.760] >> Yeah. And if I was something that was an
[03:00:11.359] advanced civilization from somewhere
[03:00:12.880] else, hopefully that uh a civilization
[03:00:16.080] that has gotten past the concept of war
[03:00:19.279] and stealing resources and all that and
[03:00:22.160] and does have some sort of um a hive
[03:00:25.200] mind, some sort of ability to
[03:00:27.040] communicate telepathically. I would be
[03:00:29.120] absolutely fascinated by this thing that
[03:00:31.439] seems to be in this transitionary sort
[03:00:33.040] of an adolescent stage of evolution and
[03:00:35.359] development. It's like not quite a
[03:00:37.520] primal animal anymore, but also not
[03:00:40.000] evolved past primal animal behavior.
[03:00:42.720] >> 100%. And I'll uh the giants the Chinese
[03:00:46.160] science fiction novel, the three body
[03:00:47.680] problem, you might not show yourself
[03:00:49.600] overtly in the dark forest teaming with
[03:00:52.160] life, it's actually dangerous to show
[03:00:53.840] yourself. So, you subtly show up. You
[03:00:55.920] show up at these, you know, nodes, hinge
[03:00:57.600] points of, you know, uh, possible
[03:00:59.600] cataclysm at nuclear. or you show up to
[03:01:01.760] a specific person who might be a node of
[03:01:03.600] disclosure, but you'd let it sort of
[03:01:05.680] seep in. You'd condition the population.
[03:01:07.840] You wouldn't show up all at once. And we
[03:01:10.240] are like objectively being conditioned
[03:01:13.120] to accept this. If the president
[03:01:15.200] is saying they live in the ocean and Tim
[03:01:17.520] Bashett is saying there's five hot spots
[03:01:19.279] in the oceans as well. And then we see
[03:01:21.680] it in the New York Times in 2017. Well,
[03:01:23.760] this is how disclosure takes place.
[03:01:26.000] >> Nice and slow. Nice and slow to the
[03:01:28.880] point where it just becomes accepted.
[03:01:31.359] >> Totally. Yeah. And it there's no like
[03:01:33.520] clear onlogical shock moment.
[03:01:35.760] >> It's not
[03:01:38.720] the Devil's Tower UFO lands.
[03:01:41.120] It's not that.
[03:01:42.240] >> No.
[03:01:42.640] >> No. It's nice and slow, right?
[03:01:44.160] >> It's what's happening now. It's
[03:01:45.920] happening. And that's why because there
[03:01:47.279] are people that get really frustrated
[03:01:48.640] and I understand it because there's so
[03:01:50.160] much sclerotic bureaucracy on the hill
[03:01:52.560] and you know these whistleblowers need
[03:01:54.880] way more protections. I think we need
[03:01:57.120] targeted immunity for certain people who
[03:01:59.200] can say a lot more who are good faith
[03:02:00.960] actors coming out. There probably a lot
[03:02:02.479] of people did really bad that we
[03:02:04.319] don't want immunity for, you know,
[03:02:05.840] right?
[03:02:06.240] >> But like
[03:02:07.840] >> ultimately, you know, I have these
[03:02:09.680] conversations and it's like it's so
[03:02:11.040] frustrating. It's taking so long, but it
[03:02:12.960] is moving. Like if you look at 10 years
[03:02:15.439] ago visav today, 2016 before that 2017
[03:02:18.800] article to today, it's wild.
[03:02:21.920] >> Totally different landscape.
[03:02:23.040] >> Totally different landscape.
[03:02:24.399] >> Yeah. Yeah. If you talked about it back
[03:02:26.080] then, you were a buffoon and now you're
[03:02:28.960] on the right side of history.
[03:02:30.319] >> There you go. So, you Joe are the
[03:02:33.680] premier scientist because you were into
[03:02:36.479] all this stuff way back then.
[03:02:37.840] >> That guy was into it first.
[03:02:39.359] >> Art legend,
[03:02:41.040] >> the OG inspiration.
[03:02:42.800] >> Jesse, you're the man. I
[03:02:44.479] appreciate you very much. It's always
[03:02:45.920] great to talk to you. Your show is
[03:02:47.359] amazing. American Alchemy. It's
[03:02:48.960] available on YouTube and it's
[03:02:50.560] incredible. It's the best.
[03:02:52.080] >> Love you, J. Thank you.
[03:02:53.040] >> I love you, [music] too. Thank you for
[03:02:54.080] being here. All right, bye everybody.
[03:03:01.201] [music]