Joe Rogan Experience #2065 - David Grusch

• Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8TqBrrqL4U
• Relevant passage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8TqBrrqL4U&t=250s
• Original venue: The Joe Rogan Experience, episode 2065
• Original publication date: 2023-11-21
• YouTube publication date: 2024-06-27
• Speakers: Joe Rogan and David Grusch
• Extraction: YouTube captions via /code/scripts/youtube_transcript.py --timestamps
• Sourced: 2026-08-03

[00:00:01.959] Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe
[00:00:04.440] Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan
[00:00:07.600] podcast by night all
[00:00:11.240] day what's up how are you man hey good
[00:00:14.440] good thanks for coming here appreciate
[00:00:16.480] it yeah yeah no it's it's a pleasure
[00:00:18.880] you've been on a whirlwind sort of
[00:00:22.560] tour um I guess we should start from the
[00:00:24.920] beginning yeah so first of all lay out
[00:00:28.519] to people what your job was with the
[00:00:30.840] military and how this all started for
[00:00:33.280] you yeah yeah so I was a Intel officer
[00:00:36.480] in the Air Force for 14 years seven
[00:00:39.040] active seven Reserve uh then I kind of
[00:00:41.680] had like a parallel tract in the
[00:00:43.640] civilian Intel world when I became a
[00:00:46.719] reservist um uh and ultimately I got
[00:00:50.079] brought back in in Civil Service in a
[00:00:52.199] government way at the national GE
[00:00:53.960] spatial intelligence agency couple years
[00:00:56.559] ago um at a senior level uh so I was a
[00:00:59.559] major in the Air Force and a gs15 at NGA
[00:01:03.480] which is like a full bird colonel
[00:01:04.839] equivalent civilian employee uh you know
[00:01:07.600] I'm very humbled that I was able to kind
[00:01:08.960] of get that kind of job but uh my career
[00:01:13.280] mostly I didn't even really think about
[00:01:15.680] this topic UFOs were not on my radar I
[00:01:18.640] wasn't really a Believer I was agnostic
[00:01:20.600] about it uh most of my career I did a
[00:01:23.560] lot of uh you know behind the door
[00:01:27.119] special access program uh technical type
[00:01:30.520] activities I was kind of a space
[00:01:32.280] intelligence expert a cyber Intel
[00:01:34.840] expert
[00:01:36.880] and like I said this was not on my radar
[00:01:39.240] at all you know like I would joke with
[00:01:40.720] my buddies because I used to handle um
[00:01:42.840] the presidential Daily Brief for the
[00:01:44.399] national reconnaissance office director
[00:01:46.439] in my my military capacity as a
[00:01:48.439] reservist and I was well clear to
[00:01:51.600] hundreds and hundreds of compartment at
[00:01:53.360] programs and you know the joke was like
[00:01:54.880] when are we going to get the readon for
[00:01:56.759] the crazy [ __ ] and that never happened
[00:02:00.759] uh and I do remember the the day that I
[00:02:05.039] really can remember that I was like huh
[00:02:07.880] what's with this UFO stuff I was uh
[00:02:10.920] briefing a senior
[00:02:12.560] person uh at the CIA into a couple
[00:02:15.360] hundred special access programs uh so I
[00:02:18.560] was at the headquarters at the agency
[00:02:20.280] and you know after the indoctrination I
[00:02:21.920] was giving to the senior
[00:02:23.640] person this person um who worked with
[00:02:26.920] Lou alzando uh previously was like yeah
[00:02:29.959] have Dave have you ever heard of this
[00:02:31.239] guy Lou alzando he's running some UFO
[00:02:33.840] program at the Pentagon um we all think
[00:02:36.599] he's crazy and I'm like I I don't know
[00:02:39.080] who this guy Lou Alando is and I don't
[00:02:41.400] know of any kind of UFO program so that
[00:02:44.360] sounds nuts to me but lo and behold and
[00:02:47.480] that was like early
[00:02:49.040] 2017 and lo and beholds in December 2017
[00:02:52.800] that New York Times article came up with
[00:02:54.879] the uh that named the a tip program and
[00:02:57.599] the assap program so Advan Aerospace
[00:02:59.840] space weapon systems application program
[00:03:03.280] and the Vance AOS space threat
[00:03:04.640] identification program being the other
[00:03:06.799] acronym and I was like holy [ __ ] wait
[00:03:09.200] that's that guy Lou alzando that I heard
[00:03:11.360] about ah you know what I think I have
[00:03:13.480] heard of ASAP when I was a lieutenant I
[00:03:15.799] used to read these
[00:03:17.319] reports from the defense Intelligence
[00:03:19.400] Agency on black holes and stuff and I
[00:03:20.959] was like oh that's like stupid why is
[00:03:23.239] the
[00:03:23.920] diaa um looking into black holes time
[00:03:26.599] warps it just didn't make any sense to
[00:03:28.159] me back in like' 0809 when I was a
[00:03:31.080] lieutenant and all of a sudden I'm like
[00:03:33.239] well maybe there's something to this UFO
[00:03:35.120] thing I'm not saying I was like a
[00:03:36.879] Believer either way on the subject but
[00:03:39.640] this is this was a topic of concern
[00:03:41.360] apparently for the
[00:03:42.640] Pentagon and in
[00:03:45.599] 2018 I started doing kind of my what I
[00:03:47.760] call my open source literature review
[00:03:49.439] like let me spin myself up on this topic
[00:03:51.640] watching Chris melon Louis Lando Leslie
[00:03:54.920] Keane all these people talk about the
[00:03:56.799] subject and then you know just trying to
[00:04:00.000] understand so what is this with UFOs has
[00:04:02.079] this been going on for a while the
[00:04:03.879] answer is yes like Foo Fighters
[00:04:06.360] sightings of weird stuff and Antiquity
[00:04:08.159] Etc which you know we can get into later
[00:04:10.280] but uh and so early 2019 comes along and
[00:04:15.599] my boss at the national reconnaissance
[00:04:17.639] office in kind of my Air Force Major
[00:04:19.359] capacity forwarded me an email from the
[00:04:22.240] what became a uh stood up in like I
[00:04:25.560] guess it was 2018 which was the
[00:04:28.000] unidentified well was aerial now an
[00:04:30.280] anomalous phom task force UAP task force
[00:04:33.000] so the UAP task force director sent my
[00:04:35.160] boss an email saying hey we're looking
[00:04:36.800] for a rep to the task force and as like
[00:04:39.720] any good officer I was like well I'll
[00:04:41.600] put it on my performance report hey I
[00:04:43.880] was on a task force and you know that
[00:04:46.320] would look good and I had being well
[00:04:48.919] cleared and also a bachelor's degree in
[00:04:51.880] physics uh Masters in intelligence
[00:04:54.080] analysis I'm like you know what I'll
[00:04:55.360] figure out what the [ __ ] is it's either
[00:04:56.680] going to be weather [ __ ] maybe it's an
[00:04:59.120] aviser program maybe it's like uh a US
[00:05:03.120] program people are misidentifying on
[00:05:05.080] rare
[00:05:05.960] occasions so [ __ ] it I'll I'll go see
[00:05:09.160] where the data takes me and you know
[00:05:12.120] early 2019 or so I joined the UAP task
[00:05:14.880] force um and
[00:05:18.080] then I started you know interviewing
[00:05:21.039] Pilots um uh flag officers you know
[00:05:24.680] General officer equivalent type Navy
[00:05:26.440] folks and you know they were seeing some
[00:05:28.720] really crazy [ __ ]
[00:05:30.199] and like a you know event that I talked
[00:05:32.800] about previously publicly in a YouTube
[00:05:35.199] video on uh the yes Theory Channel you
[00:05:38.000] know I there was this one 30-year senior
[00:05:40.680] Navy officer that you know he was going
[00:05:42.919] to work sober no predisposition for
[00:05:46.160] Fantasy all that kind of stuff because I
[00:05:47.680] interviewed the individual for a couple
[00:05:48.840] hours and he saw
[00:05:50.199] this you know crazy triangle hover over
[00:05:53.000] his car going to work at a certain Naval
[00:05:55.560] facility and it like blew his mind he
[00:05:58.800] was serious
[00:06:00.400] um the paint on his car turned milky
[00:06:03.080] white after the incident so that's to me
[00:06:05.319] that sounds like ionizing radiation so
[00:06:07.319] like ultraviolet just like how your your
[00:06:10.840] headlights get all foggy over time if
[00:06:13.120] you park your car out in the sun same
[00:06:16.479] phenomenon just happened you know within
[00:06:18.479] 24-hour period and I'm like whoa if this
[00:06:21.599] is true and the the oral testimony and
[00:06:25.160] you know crazy radar data that I saw
[00:06:27.240] when I was on the task force you know
[00:06:29.240] stuff making turns that didn't make any
[00:06:31.039] sense well holy [ __ ] what is this stuff
[00:06:33.680] then this um anomaly with his paint is
[00:06:37.240] this documented is it photographs or yes
[00:06:39.720] I saw photographs it was documented yeah
[00:06:41.880] and uh what is there a conventional
[00:06:45.880] explanation I mean based on what he
[00:06:48.720] described something to rapidly ionize
[00:06:51.800] his paint like that within a a day I
[00:06:54.759] don't I can't think of anything off the
[00:06:56.280] top of my head in terms of some
[00:06:58.039] conventional Aeros based technology and
[00:07:01.039] and this was a certain facility in the
[00:07:02.960] continental US this was not overseas so
[00:07:05.000] it's not like our adversaries flying
[00:07:07.280] some spooky thing um in US airspace so
[00:07:11.840] this thing hovered over his car for how
[00:07:14.360] long couple minutes while he was
[00:07:17.000] traveling at about 60 M an hour so it
[00:07:19.319] was pacing how far away from his
[00:07:23.919] vehicle it's probably a couple hundred
[00:07:26.000] feet in altitude it was less than a
[00:07:27.400] th000 feet which is also bad because
[00:07:30.039] from an airspace perspective Pilots
[00:07:32.360] would know this anything under a th000
[00:07:34.120] feet no unless you get special clearance
[00:07:36.960] and you only do that over controlled
[00:07:39.120] airspace like a military test ranges
[00:07:41.199] right people fly low and that kind of
[00:07:43.120] thing so is is he on what kind of a
[00:07:45.159] highway is he on a conventional civilian
[00:07:48.240] Highway civilian high so anyone could
[00:07:49.560] have been on it yes it just happened to
[00:07:51.280] be this guy mhm um did he have any other
[00:07:55.400] experiences with this thing no they was
[00:07:58.440] this was like a once in a lifetime thing
[00:08:00.919] um he kept it to himself for a couple
[00:08:04.440] years but then he
[00:08:07.360] umce was his name uh I don't what he's
[00:08:10.879] that individual's still on call him Bob
[00:08:12.879] but did anybody say to him hey Bob what
[00:08:14.440] the [ __ ] happened to your car you know
[00:08:16.759] that's a good question I don't remember
[00:08:18.560] if uh people asked him about his car so
[00:08:20.960] he took pride in his car so it actually
[00:08:22.800] was probably more upsetting to him
[00:08:24.159] personally what kind of car was it it
[00:08:25.599] was like a Toyota or something so okay
[00:08:27.639] yeah so all of a sudden it's Toyota
[00:08:30.120] [ __ ] okay and um so did he have to
[00:08:35.039] report this is this something that he
[00:08:37.640] did not report it to my knowledge to
[00:08:39.479] anybody it wasn't until he reported it
[00:08:41.399] to us about five years later that it uh
[00:08:44.560] happened
[00:08:46.000] so are th these kind of experiences
[00:08:49.279] something that a lot of these Pilots are
[00:08:52.240] embarrassed about discussing or have
[00:08:54.320] apprehension about discussing because
[00:08:55.800] they could be ridiculed MH yeah a lot of
[00:08:58.200] people that are on flight status they
[00:08:59.640] don't want to be sent to the psych right
[00:09:01.480] you know there's a whole Aerospace
[00:09:02.880] physiology kind of empire in the
[00:09:04.959] military uh that you know if you're an
[00:09:07.279] operator or you know a guy missile
[00:09:10.360] missile key Turner you're on what's they
[00:09:12.040] call personal reliability program if
[00:09:14.320] you're taking like you know Tylenol you
[00:09:17.000] got to report it if you have a fever you
[00:09:18.440] got to report it because you're you know
[00:09:20.600] in control nuclear weapons when you're
[00:09:21.920] on duty so right yeah and so this idea
[00:09:24.839] of uh being predisposed to Fantasy
[00:09:27.200] that's also something that they uh
[00:09:30.079] sort of talk to these people about or
[00:09:32.160] try to get a gauge of yeah yeah these
[00:09:35.320] are people that are very sober minded I
[00:09:37.360] mean this individual was early in the
[00:09:38.839] morning going to work not under the
[00:09:40.720] influence of anything and uh that person
[00:09:44.079] had a you know similar clearan as mine
[00:09:46.200] you know tssci so you know we've gone
[00:09:48.240] through Ts that top secret you know s
[00:09:51.040] Department of information clearance and
[00:09:53.160] you know just like myself I've been
[00:09:55.640] through multiple polygraphs in my career
[00:09:57.839] so did this individuals so um does he
[00:10:01.000] have any idea or any uh theories about
[00:10:04.200] why this thing was following him no
[00:10:06.800] that's what freaked him out the most
[00:10:08.279] because it he didn't have any experience
[00:10:11.360] in his life like this it like totally
[00:10:13.000] blew his mind when he looked out his
[00:10:14.720] moon roof and then looked out the side
[00:10:16.720] of his uh car door and saw this 300 foot
[00:10:20.360] triangle uh it was like pre-dawn sky but
[00:10:23.120] it was darker than the preon sky and it
[00:10:26.480] had this like plasma edges like it was
[00:10:29.600] like purplish glowing edges and these
[00:10:32.600] three lights that had like these
[00:10:34.360] omnidirectional like almost like pool
[00:10:36.399] lights you know how there's you can't
[00:10:37.720] really tell where the light source is
[00:10:40.079] and it was totally trippy and that and
[00:10:42.000] that's just one example of many
[00:10:44.399] anecdotal with some evidence you know
[00:10:46.839] pilot stories uh and that's what made me
[00:10:49.600] dig deeper and I started you know
[00:10:51.399] cultivating my network like has the
[00:10:54.279] government studied this before this
[00:10:55.920] wasn't just assap and a tip and blue
[00:10:57.800] book and all this [ __ ] in the past right
[00:10:59.399] there's this seems serious so like
[00:11:01.839] certainly the government has looked at
[00:11:03.440] this and you know I went to search for
[00:11:05.399] that program and that's what I ended up
[00:11:06.680] whistleblowing on right so when you what
[00:11:10.639] was how did you initially discover this
[00:11:13.079] program and like what was your first
[00:11:14.959] encounter with the information a very
[00:11:18.320] senior individual in the Intel Community
[00:11:22.399] came to me when uh I guess I was asking
[00:11:26.240] a lot of questions because I'm a very
[00:11:27.480] inquisitive guy and it was like hey we I
[00:11:29.959] need to introduce you to
[00:11:31.519] somebody uh you know he listed that
[00:11:34.639] certain person's academic credentials
[00:11:36.399] which were Beyond reproach you know PhD
[00:11:38.279] level education
[00:11:40.240] clearance resume was insane I'm like
[00:11:42.720] well okay sure I'll I'll talk to this
[00:11:44.680] person and and I ended up meeting that
[00:11:47.120] person in a you know uh a top secret
[00:11:50.120] facility and you know he started the
[00:11:52.279] discussing like hey there was a
[00:11:55.160] program I was on it and you know we were
[00:11:59.839] reverse engineering crash material that
[00:12:02.440] we've recovered over the decades you
[00:12:04.800] know and he's like I'm not joking you
[00:12:07.120] know and you know you know we're telling
[00:12:09.040] you because you you have you guys have
[00:12:10.560] to report to the deputy secretary of
[00:12:12.160] defense in Congress on this matter right
[00:12:14.800] and we were we were actively briefing
[00:12:18.079] like uh secretary esper deputy secretary
[00:12:20.760] norquist you know um other cabinet level
[00:12:24.560] folks right and like there's a there you
[00:12:27.639] know there must there's an oversight
[00:12:28.880] issue because you're the UAP task force
[00:12:30.959] you should be read into this stuff
[00:12:33.560] because like why spend the taxpayers you
[00:12:36.800] know dollars looking at stuff that we
[00:12:38.880] already have data on right so that's and
[00:12:42.800] that spooked to me and that was like
[00:12:44.120] fall of
[00:12:45.519] 2019 and you know I don't take a guy's
[00:12:47.760] word for it I'm like you know what
[00:12:50.120] myself and my trusted colleagues that
[00:12:52.160] had a lot of lot of special accesses
[00:12:54.680] like me you know we cultivated our
[00:12:57.680] Network and we ultimately interviewed
[00:13:00.279] about 40 people or so all the way up to
[00:13:03.519] multistar
[00:13:04.800] generals directors of agencies mid-level
[00:13:08.040] guys that literally touched it worked
[00:13:09.880] inside of it all the the stuff they
[00:13:13.079] brought Intel reports for me to look at
[00:13:15.959] you know
[00:13:16.880] documents and and a lot of that I could
[00:13:19.360] cross verify with other oral sources
[00:13:23.839] that my high level colleagues or I talk
[00:13:26.320] to and um you know it checked out
[00:13:29.800] especially when I had enough information
[00:13:32.680] on and I know who specifically to ask
[00:13:36.000] like hey well I want red into this like
[00:13:39.279] I'm on the UAP task force and we went to
[00:13:41.399] those I'll call them Gatekeepers for the
[00:13:43.160] lack of a better term and they basically
[00:13:45.360] said [ __ ] you to me and my colleagues H
[00:13:49.680] so why were these other people willing
[00:13:51.360] to discuss this with
[00:13:53.040] you well they determined I didn't need
[00:13:55.560] to know I was
[00:13:57.160] already cleared at such a high level
[00:13:59.880] handling presidential material and
[00:14:01.680] everything it's like Dave needs to know
[00:14:05.000] and they felt that coming to us it was a
[00:14:08.279] form of a protected disclosure they felt
[00:14:10.759] that they weren't really violating
[00:14:12.839] anything because you know we were the
[00:14:16.360] I'll call it the investigatory body uh
[00:14:18.800] for the Department of Defense and the
[00:14:20.120] intelligence community and and con
[00:14:22.600] Congress at the time and they you know
[00:14:24.880] you are allowed to you know disclose to
[00:14:28.519] a government official in an official
[00:14:30.399] capacity and I you know did that and of
[00:14:32.480] course I protected those people and and
[00:14:34.560] do know I took those people a lot of
[00:14:36.920] them and and they brought them to the
[00:14:38.519] intelligence Community Inspector General
[00:14:40.160] when I filed my complaint because I
[00:14:42.320] don't want people to you know hear it
[00:14:44.440] from a secondhand Source you know people
[00:14:46.120] call here say whatever though I have
[00:14:48.240] some firsthand knowledge I eventually
[00:14:50.360] talk about Someday I'm trying to get it
[00:14:51.720] cleared but through through security
[00:14:54.720] processes um uh so they could hear it
[00:14:57.920] and hear the details like you know who
[00:15:00.240] what when where why where the [ __ ] is
[00:15:02.800] who's in control of it what are the
[00:15:05.279] cover programs etc etc etc so uh and
[00:15:09.240] that's what deemed my my complaint
[00:15:11.720] credible and Urgent in July
[00:15:13.839] 2022 uh which is a so the my complaint
[00:15:18.040] yes was about reprisal too I filed that
[00:15:20.320] separately eventually to the the
[00:15:22.160] Department of Defense Inspector General
[00:15:23.680] that's an ongoing investigation but my
[00:15:25.360] it was my congressional
[00:15:27.680] oversight uh UAP crash retrieval
[00:15:30.079] allegations that was deemed uh credible
[00:15:32.519] and Urgent it was sent to the Director
[00:15:34.000] of National Intelligence and then it was
[00:15:35.639] sent to the Congressional intelligence
[00:15:38.160] committees around that time July of 2022
[00:15:41.360] and I eventually went to Congress in
[00:15:44.000] December of 2022 and it's a crazy story
[00:15:46.240] why I took so long it's [ __ ] nuts um
[00:15:49.360] but I provided total about 11 and a half
[00:15:52.160] to 12 hours of uh you know classified
[00:15:55.480] testimony to the Congressional staffers
[00:15:57.759] and their lawyers
[00:15:59.440] for both the house and the Senate and I
[00:16:02.759] I went you know full open kimono I mean
[00:16:05.040] I told them as much as I could within my
[00:16:07.199] time slot if you will so
[00:16:09.600] so this is obviously very
[00:16:12.399] compartmentalized where there's only a
[00:16:14.720] few people that know about this
[00:16:16.160] information and they're not allowed to
[00:16:18.759] discuss it with other people when did
[00:16:21.160] this all start I mean is this out of
[00:16:24.399] Roswell is it predate that like when
[00:16:27.800] when did they first realize that there
[00:16:30.360] are things that cannot be explained or
[00:16:32.880] can't be explained through conventional
[00:16:34.720] means yeah I mean the program goes back
[00:16:37.040] ways the
[00:16:39.000] precise beginning of it can't talk about
[00:16:42.639] but I did because security stuff but I
[00:16:45.319] did talk about uh publicly the 1933
[00:16:48.160] retrieval and I did that uh tactically
[00:16:51.279] and I ran that through the security
[00:16:53.040] approval office because I wanted to show
[00:16:55.839] that this is much older and it's
[00:16:58.399] International it's not like a us thing I
[00:17:00.800] mean this stuff is landing or crashing
[00:17:03.600] around the world and unexpected
[00:17:06.720] countries have had this happen and
[00:17:08.959] that's why I picked that because I
[00:17:10.240] thought that was a interesting case and
[00:17:12.480] then of course the you know Pope pus the
[00:17:14.559] 12 and the Vatican were involved back
[00:17:16.439] channeling it through the OSS which
[00:17:18.280] became the CIA later to FDR and that's
[00:17:21.199] how the US knew something weird happened
[00:17:23.559] in Italy during well right before World
[00:17:25.480] War II but so this is 33 was the first
[00:17:29.280] like
[00:17:30.520] documented uh that is the earliest one I
[00:17:33.720] can talk about yeah there something that
[00:17:36.320] predates that might you could infer that
[00:17:39.400] you could infer that yeah so this 331
[00:17:41.960] you said was in Italy yeah magenta so
[00:17:44.559] it's a I'm bad at geography I think
[00:17:46.679] that's like Lombardi region it's like
[00:17:48.760] Northern Northwest Italy and what's the
[00:17:51.240] story behind it so um basically it it it
[00:17:57.000] looked like it crashed right it the
[00:17:59.000] original shape most likely was like a
[00:18:01.400] lenticular disc like craft you know with
[00:18:04.320] like a two dinner plates what does
[00:18:05.919] lenticular mean so like two dinner
[00:18:07.600] plates you know smooshed together right
[00:18:09.919] the hump and there's like a you know
[00:18:11.400] like a bubble on topic classic like like
[00:18:15.000] that like that okay but it looks like
[00:18:17.559] when it hits the edges broke off so it
[00:18:20.799] became this like Bell or
[00:18:23.000] Acorn shaped thing um and there was
[00:18:26.400] nothing in it it was like just an
[00:18:27.799] artifact you know was no biological
[00:18:30.679] remnants if you will um so it's so funny
[00:18:33.760] because the Italians were so confused
[00:18:37.960] they actually called up the Germans and
[00:18:39.720] they were like is this one yunda like
[00:18:41.960] what the hell just crashed in Northern
[00:18:44.080] Italy musolini um and this is all
[00:18:47.120] publicly available information because
[00:18:48.799] some Italian
[00:18:50.080] researchers um found all these original
[00:18:52.600] documents that some people were sitting
[00:18:54.400] on for years in Italy uh you know they
[00:18:56.799] put a gag gag order on the Press Etc and
[00:18:59.640] yeah melini asked the Germans to come
[00:19:02.120] down and of course the Germans came down
[00:19:03.600] and they were like uh that is not ours
[00:19:07.520] but let's look at it together so that's
[00:19:11.200] kind of uh perhaps a tertiary reason the
[00:19:14.760] kind of access powers got together I'm
[00:19:16.400] not saying that's like the reason but I
[00:19:19.039] think the Italians and the Germans were
[00:19:20.600] so intrigued with what they found from
[00:19:22.120] like an artifact perspective there was
[00:19:24.480] at least some scientific and Military uh
[00:19:27.000] collaboration during the war the details
[00:19:29.440] of which uh I'm not I'm not sure of but
[00:19:32.559] I know people that know that specific
[00:19:34.880] event that are currently still Intel
[00:19:36.760] officers within this program uh in
[00:19:39.600] detail but yeah so was there witnesses
[00:19:42.440] to the crash or some sort of an
[00:19:44.520] understanding that something had crash
[00:19:46.080] landed and then they discovered it yeah
[00:19:48.280] I I forget the precise
[00:19:51.080] Discovery uh I don't know if it was like
[00:19:53.400] uh local police officers or local
[00:19:55.440] farmers found in the field something
[00:19:57.159] like that I I don't want to speak I'm I
[00:20:00.240] assume some of the Italian researchers
[00:20:02.080] might have some fact witnesses that can
[00:20:03.840] orally say oh yeah my my
[00:20:05.280] great-grandfather found it or something
[00:20:06.799] like that but I don't remember what was
[00:20:08.600] the scale of this vehicle uh it was
[00:20:11.360] probably like like 20 ft by 10 ft
[00:20:14.080] something like that not super huge but
[00:20:16.480] kind of big do they think that this was
[00:20:18.240] a drone do they think that this was
[00:20:20.679] occupied there was nothing in it so if
[00:20:23.960] it if it was uh piloted if you will by
[00:20:27.559] some sentience I mean your guess is as
[00:20:29.720] good as mine so H so what happened to
[00:20:34.039] that
[00:20:34.880] vehicle so we knew where it was being
[00:20:37.400] stored at a a particular location um
[00:20:41.000] after the crash and then the military
[00:20:43.919] came in and we we grabbed it towards the
[00:20:45.799] end of the war you know 1944 1945
[00:20:48.600] because like I said pop Pi the 12th
[00:20:51.000] already kind
[00:20:52.039] of let uh FDR know why did the Pope get
[00:20:55.480] involved because it's Italy well
[00:20:58.080] interesting ly enough there's like a
[00:20:59.799] whole history of human intelligence
[00:21:02.320] prior to World War II and uh old money
[00:21:05.640] the Vatican the Italian mob um kind of
[00:21:08.440] the old country boys did a lot of
[00:21:11.080] informal intelligence collection uh for
[00:21:14.440] the US and and there's probably some
[00:21:16.640] books you can read on it but it's really
[00:21:18.120] interesting you know human intelligence
[00:21:20.279] collection wasn't really formalized
[00:21:21.880] until the offic office of strategic
[00:21:23.559] Services the OSS which became the CIA in
[00:21:27.000] 1947
[00:21:29.039] um you had um you know Paul melon and
[00:21:32.080] all these other affluent guys of all
[00:21:34.360] these old money families that basically
[00:21:36.559] created the CIA so that's probably the
[00:21:39.799] reason why so this thing that was
[00:21:44.440] recovered this was the first documented
[00:21:47.720] one that the United States had access to
[00:21:51.039] I can't get into if it was a first or
[00:21:52.960] not but okay it was an early one very
[00:21:54.880] early yeah so it's almost hundred years
[00:21:56.480] ago yes and so they take this thing and
[00:21:59.640] then they bring it
[00:22:01.679] where yeah I can't I can't get into
[00:22:03.679] those can't get into okay so they bring
[00:22:05.679] it somewhere in the United States and uh
[00:22:08.840] was the attempt to try to back engineer
[00:22:12.120] this thing was the attempt to try to
[00:22:14.080] understand what it was yeah I mean first
[00:22:16.600] of it obviously it's understanding the
[00:22:18.360] situation right what do we have our
[00:22:20.000] hands on and and like I've said in some
[00:22:23.640] other videos and stuff you know that we
[00:22:24.880] took the Manhattan Project secrecy and
[00:22:26.520] overlaid it on this issue because that
[00:22:28.520] secrecy worked well for atomic bomb
[00:22:31.200] developments and whatnot and and
[00:22:33.799] certainly this whole program in a
[00:22:35.960] nutshell if I were to like summarize the
[00:22:38.520] 90 plus years of History it is a reverse
[00:22:42.640] engineering program to Garner some kind
[00:22:45.840] of insight uh and of course not a lot of
[00:22:49.559] the things that we've learned from it
[00:22:51.600] are like
[00:22:53.000] directly you know ripped off the
[00:22:55.080] technology we found but it has inspired
[00:22:58.559] other innovations that made its way into
[00:23:00.640] other us classified programs over the
[00:23:02.520] year for National Defense reasons you
[00:23:04.679] know and it's a myriad of different
[00:23:06.080] things so the the UFO folklore is that
[00:23:09.400] this is where fiber optics were
[00:23:11.559] discovered first yeah I'm not going to
[00:23:13.840] break the seal on anything we've
[00:23:15.360] discovered or anything like that and
[00:23:18.240] yeah it's place I can't go how limited
[00:23:20.400] are you in what you can discuss and what
[00:23:22.279] you can't discuss and why why do they
[00:23:24.520] let you discuss any of this yeah so
[00:23:27.039] anything sensitive that I want say as it
[00:23:29.120] relates to like US Government activity
[00:23:31.240] whether it be intelligence stuff
[00:23:32.440] military Stuff Etc I have to submit it
[00:23:34.279] through what they call doser Dod office
[00:23:36.760] of pre-publication and Security review
[00:23:39.400] that is something anybody who's been an
[00:23:40.960] Intel officer anybody with like a
[00:23:42.880] clearance has to submit that kind of
[00:23:45.440] stuff now obviously if you're writing a
[00:23:47.600] book about gardening you don't have to
[00:23:49.279] but if you're going to talk about
[00:23:50.880] anything military and intelligence
[00:23:52.600] related you have to submit so it's kind
[00:23:56.200] of a catch 22 for this office right
[00:23:58.039] their own only looking at it from a
[00:23:59.760] security perspective they're not
[00:24:02.360] vouching for it or anything like that
[00:24:04.440] and that's like any author right they
[00:24:05.840] could write a a book about Navy Seals
[00:24:08.320] and they're not vouching for the story
[00:24:10.000] they're vouching that you didn't say any
[00:24:12.200] nasty code words you didn't burn a
[00:24:15.039] specific ongoing classified program and
[00:24:17.919] for them I mean I'm not in their udal
[00:24:20.279] Loop but certainly it's a catch 22 for
[00:24:23.279] them where if they want to redact and
[00:24:26.080] they propose a redaction they're like
[00:24:27.679] hey Dave you can't say these sentences
[00:24:29.240] you can rewrite it and resubmit you know
[00:24:31.840] we can't necessarily tell you uh what
[00:24:34.440] agency said to redact it but you're not
[00:24:37.360] allowed to say
[00:24:39.240] this uh they would be basically
[00:24:41.360] self-certifying there's a there there so
[00:24:44.399] in my opinion probably the policy is
[00:24:46.600] like if it has to deal with the subject
[00:24:48.320] we're not saying anything we're not
[00:24:49.880] proposing any redactions as as long as
[00:24:52.520] he's not burning a conventional
[00:24:55.039] program uh we kind of have to allow him
[00:24:58.480] to exercise his first amendment rights
[00:25:00.640] and I so I think it's like a catch 22
[00:25:02.799] for that office is kind of the long or
[00:25:05.120] the short of the long answer so so this
[00:25:07.559] is essentially one of the very early
[00:25:09.360] ones 1933 M how many crash
[00:25:14.120] retrieval incidents have there been it
[00:25:16.799] is double digit uh the specific numbers
[00:25:20.600] I do know however I can't discuss that I
[00:25:23.039] know it sounds like oh I'm being koi or
[00:25:26.720] whatever but you know this show any
[00:25:29.360] other interviews I do right you know
[00:25:30.799] foreign intelligence services are
[00:25:32.279] watching and it's like I'm not here to
[00:25:34.320] help Russia and China calibrate their
[00:25:37.360] intelligence collection like oh Dave
[00:25:39.559] said it's this number we missed a couple
[00:25:42.720] [ __ ] let's put it out for the KGB svr
[00:25:46.039] and Gru are now going to hit the streets
[00:25:47.799] to try to figure out which ones they
[00:25:49.039] miss so I'm I'm here to protect National
[00:25:51.440] Security and I'm just trying to put all
[00:25:54.640] the general topics out there for public
[00:25:57.360] conversation the our government
[00:25:59.039] accountable really so because I'm I'm
[00:26:02.000] here as a fact witness because we have a
[00:26:05.600] you know a constitutional oversight
[00:26:07.720] issue because this
[00:26:10.320] program has not
[00:26:12.480] been you know reported to Congress in
[00:26:14.919] the appropriate way you know and I can
[00:26:17.799] get into a senator I talked to that has
[00:26:21.640] died recently so I can you know explain
[00:26:24.320] to you why I'm so sure besides what I
[00:26:28.399] read which we can get into the what
[00:26:29.919] Intel Port reports I read I did get some
[00:26:31.880] stuff cleared um so during my
[00:26:35.600] investigation I'm like you know what I
[00:26:37.399] need to talk to somebody at the highest
[00:26:39.600] levels right so and this will give you
[00:26:41.880] an idea of the kind of people we talk to
[00:26:44.279] and this is the only one I'm going to
[00:26:45.360] talk about using their name because they
[00:26:47.200] died two years ago so in Spring 2021 I
[00:26:51.120] actually flew with a couple colleagues
[00:26:53.080] of mine to Las Vegas and I met with
[00:26:55.880] Senator Harry
[00:26:57.240] Reid about N9 months before he died and
[00:27:00.559] of course he's a private citizen now and
[00:27:02.200] I wanted to brief him
[00:27:03.880] on the topic and I wanted to get his
[00:27:06.720] kind of thought leadership on it because
[00:27:08.279] you know he was a gang of eight member
[00:27:10.080] right you know which is the top most
[00:27:11.919] cleared senators and Congressman he was
[00:27:14.760] the majority leader for God's sakes of
[00:27:16.559] the Senate and I knew you know he helped
[00:27:19.240] sponsor the assap program that I
[00:27:22.200] mentioned and where they looked at
[00:27:24.279] Skinwalker Ranch and some other things
[00:27:26.760] and I wanted to understand like what
[00:27:28.559] does Harry Reid actually know like why
[00:27:30.440] did he you know give $21 million to DIA
[00:27:34.279] and Bigalow Aerospace for this so I'm
[00:27:38.120] sitting there in Harry Reid's living
[00:27:40.360] room you know right next to him with
[00:27:42.240] some other witnesses that were there
[00:27:44.360] with me and he straight up says he's
[00:27:47.120] like yeah I knew we had UFO material I
[00:27:50.320] was denied access for decades I tried to
[00:27:53.840] get access and then he explains some of
[00:27:56.840] his efforts during AET app uh and I was
[00:28:00.559] like holy [ __ ] did the former Majority
[00:28:03.039] Leader just say did he just confirm this
[00:28:05.080] to me as well you know I was already
[00:28:07.399] talking to these amazing highlevel
[00:28:09.200] people but I have Harry Reid literally
[00:28:12.240] saying yes we have material and you know
[00:28:15.200] he knew it was non-human did Harry Reid
[00:28:17.799] have personal experience with this I
[00:28:20.120] don't know if he's had any personal
[00:28:21.880] stuff in his personal life I mean did he
[00:28:23.760] see it did he witness in terms of seeing
[00:28:27.679] the m material himself he said he was
[00:28:30.240] denied access for years or decades was
[00:28:35.039] his term and he actually told me on
[00:28:37.880] behalf of me he was going so he had like
[00:28:40.159] a weekly call with President Joe Biden
[00:28:42.880] at the time and he straight up said to
[00:28:45.159] me he was gonna talk to President Biden
[00:28:48.200] about this issue
[00:28:50.960] literally and then uh what he was
[00:28:53.399] telling me about
[00:28:54.679] assap um I was like holy [ __ ] I have
[00:28:58.760] like 20 other people that told me this
[00:29:00.480] dude so the real history what [ __ ]
[00:29:03.320] assap was because I think there's a lot
[00:29:05.120] of people out there that think they were
[00:29:07.799] looking at ghosts Skinwalker Ranch yes
[00:29:10.960] they went to the ranch as a secondary
[00:29:12.960] and tertiary objective but the
[00:29:16.320] real uh reason so like there's a
[00:29:19.679] document that came out a couple years
[00:29:21.640] ago through Foya from the defense
[00:29:23.919] intelligence agency there was this
[00:29:26.159] special Access program request that
[00:29:28.320] Harry Reid you might have seen this I
[00:29:29.960] think like George nap and Company have
[00:29:31.960] reported on this that he sent to the
[00:29:34.799] deputy secretary defense William Lynn
[00:29:37.120] and it was asking for one of the most
[00:29:39.519] serious saps you can ask for what they
[00:29:41.600] call a bigoted waved special Access
[00:29:45.120] program so waved means it's limited
[00:29:47.440] Congressional reporting um that is a
[00:29:50.039] class of special access programs and
[00:29:51.919] bigoted means it's like by name and it's
[00:29:53.880] like it was like you could read the foa
[00:29:56.159] document it was like you know Harry Reid
[00:29:57.600] James in Hoff uh Lando Etc I'm like why
[00:30:01.960] are you asking for the most serious sap
[00:30:04.840] to be created for a program that
[00:30:08.399] ostensibly is looking at Skinwalker
[00:30:10.519] Ranch and stuff and it doesn't make any
[00:30:12.240] sense so what really happened there and
[00:30:16.840] uh you know Harry me Harry Reid God
[00:30:19.559] bless his soul made this
[00:30:21.640] disclosure um a couple weeks after we
[00:30:23.960] met uh in the New Yorker and you can
[00:30:25.919] look this up I think it was like a May
[00:30:27.440] 200 21 New Yorker story where he says I
[00:30:31.120] knew for decades and he made this
[00:30:32.640] disclosure not me so I'm going to say
[00:30:34.080] the name of the contractor Harry Reed
[00:30:35.720] said this uh you know we knew that
[00:30:38.440] lockie Martin had this material for
[00:30:40.399] decades I tried to get access and I was
[00:30:42.559] denied and specifically with the locki
[00:30:44.919] Martin stuff he was talking about during
[00:30:46.840] the assap program and for the people who
[00:30:50.159] are on this program I submitted this
[00:30:51.600] [ __ ] to doser got this cleared so don't
[00:30:54.360] freak out but I'm telling the truth
[00:30:56.600] here um so lockie Martin wanted to
[00:30:59.679] divest itself from this material at a
[00:31:02.399] specific facility that's known to me
[00:31:04.120] that I provided to the Inspector
[00:31:06.399] General um like street address all that
[00:31:08.919] [ __ ] right and the idea was if they made
[00:31:12.240] a catcher mitt a security catchers mitt
[00:31:14.519] for this [ __ ] at you know most serious
[00:31:16.880] sa possible the contractor and the other
[00:31:19.960] government customer which was the
[00:31:21.639] Central Intelligence Agency um for that
[00:31:24.480] specific locked material and it was [ __ ]
[00:31:27.600] that they recovered from like the 50s
[00:31:28.960] and stuff and it was like bits and
[00:31:30.240] pieces of of of of like Hall structure
[00:31:33.639] [ __ ] like that
[00:31:35.720] and um uh so they were going to Tech
[00:31:39.399] transfer it and the 21 or 22 million was
[00:31:43.000] actually for Bigalow Aerospace to build
[00:31:45.960] out you know facilities in Las Vegas and
[00:31:50.159] material analysis equipment and I've SE
[00:31:52.240] I have I saw the staff meeting slides I
[00:31:54.320] saw the paperwork like there's a
[00:31:55.960] paperwork Trail I've seen on this [ __ ]
[00:31:57.960] and I talked to the people involved in
[00:32:00.200] this program and you know even Jim laty
[00:32:02.720] who ran the program who retired Dia
[00:32:05.760] officer PhD in engineering even made
[00:32:07.639] this disclosure in his book skinwalkers
[00:32:10.279] at the Pentagon uh page 152 to 153 and
[00:32:14.799] he also made a disclosure a couple weeks
[00:32:17.679] ago I think it was on weaponized podcast
[00:32:21.679] with Jeremy Corbell and George knp where
[00:32:25.200] he's like yeah we had a whole craft and
[00:32:28.080] we broke into the hall and we gained
[00:32:30.320] access and he ran that through the same
[00:32:32.679] you know security process as I did and
[00:32:34.639] so Jim
[00:32:35.720] latsky who ran this program is also
[00:32:38.240] going on the record that he is aware uh
[00:32:41.480] personally aware of intact vehicles and
[00:32:43.919] everything but uh so they gained access
[00:32:46.519] what does that mean by what method did
[00:32:48.519] they gain access the way he wrote it in
[00:32:50.600] his book I can only infer it sounded
[00:32:52.799] Force forcible so through some kind of
[00:32:56.840] you know means I don't know if it was
[00:32:58.240] like CO2 laser or something I don't
[00:33:00.080] actually know how they gained access but
[00:33:02.240] imagine it was uh not permissive access
[00:33:04.880] they like broke into the damn thing so
[00:33:07.039] this thing is essentially uh
[00:33:09.840] sealed and it's some sort of uh what was
[00:33:13.039] the shape of this thing uh he thei
[00:33:16.080] didn't disclose the shape on this
[00:33:17.799] particular vehicle as far as I the
[00:33:20.919] dimensions I don't believe he did in his
[00:33:23.000] book uh but I think it's like chapter 11
[00:33:25.240] in his new book or something I glanced
[00:33:27.080] at it but he did make that disclosure on
[00:33:29.519] video as well and I do
[00:33:31.399] encourage both the arrow office which is
[00:33:34.000] the dod's UAP task force successor and
[00:33:37.760] Congress to ask Dr James latsky to come
[00:33:40.440] in for classified testimony because the
[00:33:43.480] disclosure in his one book that he wrote
[00:33:45.519] with colum kellerer George knap and in
[00:33:47.559] the second book well the guy saying he
[00:33:50.240] has close personal knowledge he needs to
[00:33:53.080] go to Congress so I you know I don't
[00:33:56.360] know James latsky but do encourage him
[00:33:58.519] to be a fact witness uh but going back
[00:34:00.760] to that transfer with locki long story
[00:34:03.559] short can't get in all the Nuance
[00:34:05.159] details but basically the
[00:34:08.440] CIA uh said [ __ ] you to DIA and locked
[00:34:13.079] and it was totally killed so Harry
[00:34:15.760] Reid's request to get the material
[00:34:18.240] transferred to the assap program was
[00:34:20.919] totally killed because of bureaucracy
[00:34:23.159] and kind of fom stuff so they use that
[00:34:26.000] money and then they you know you know
[00:34:28.200] they wrote those defense intelligence
[00:34:30.359] reference documents the dirds as a lot
[00:34:33.040] of people who's familiar with it
[00:34:35.119] listening will know about and then they
[00:34:37.480] did look at Skinwalker Ranch
[00:34:40.359] because they thought that studying kind
[00:34:44.320] of the more woow woo phenomenon aspects
[00:34:47.280] of this and I've never been to the ranch
[00:34:49.000] so I've never experienced the ranch for
[00:34:50.960] myself but you know obviously I think we
[00:34:53.240] both know a bunch of people that have
[00:34:54.440] been to the ranch and have seen some
[00:34:55.800] trippy stuff or at least alleged that
[00:34:58.760] um they thought that they would be able
[00:35:00.599] to gain currency with the with the
[00:35:03.040] program you know in in this case CIA to
[00:35:06.960] unlock the key for the locked Martin
[00:35:09.119] stuff uh which actually I'll tell you
[00:35:11.079] right now it's like so weird to say that
[00:35:12.440] but I I ran that [ __ ] through security
[00:35:15.720] um you to me it's like an out of body
[00:35:17.400] experience to talk about that kind of uh
[00:35:19.720] detailed sensitivity uh stuff like that
[00:35:22.240] but but basically they studied the ranch
[00:35:25.200] to gain favor to be like hey look at all
[00:35:27.079] this stuff for figuring out this
[00:35:28.560] paranormal stuff that's somehow
[00:35:30.079] connected to the phenomenon on the ranch
[00:35:32.880] but ultimately they never gained favor
[00:35:34.680] with the government customer and then
[00:35:36.760] the program kind of died a slow death
[00:35:38.720] because of a lot of politics in the
[00:35:40.599] Pentagon so that's kind of the long but
[00:35:44.240] short of it with the assap program that
[00:35:47.320] you know I wanted to make sure the
[00:35:48.560] public knew it's not what you think it
[00:35:50.880] was there was some other stuff behind
[00:35:53.599] the scenes that you know I wanted to
[00:35:55.440] speak truth to power on so this
[00:35:57.800] particular vehicle that they had
[00:35:59.760] recovered from the 1950s what what was
[00:36:02.240] the source of it where did they find it
[00:36:05.520] uh those
[00:36:07.000] details uh I did not get cleared so yeah
[00:36:11.359] so they have in possession this thing
[00:36:14.160] they gain access to this thing and what
[00:36:16.119] do they report once they've gained
[00:36:17.599] access to it oh those details I I do not
[00:36:20.240] know that's a that's probably a question
[00:36:22.480] for Dr
[00:36:23.560] latsky um I presume he knows those
[00:36:26.160] details I don't know so this thing is
[00:36:29.880] housed
[00:36:31.000] somewhere it is yes
[00:36:34.680] currently it may still be in the same
[00:36:36.720] location that I know about yes and how
[00:36:39.319] many people have access to this and how
[00:36:42.480] did they prevent this information from
[00:36:45.520] being released I mean you know it goes
[00:36:48.680] back to the compartmentation and kind of
[00:36:50.520] the ecosystem of secrecy in this
[00:36:52.200] community right you know only a limited
[00:36:54.839] amount of people you know at least at
[00:36:56.720] the time you know on locked Martin's
[00:36:58.920] side and and locked Martin was
[00:37:01.160] complaining basically like look like the
[00:37:03.520] secrecy is ridiculous we can't even
[00:37:05.599] bring the right Engineers like imagine
[00:37:08.280] you're like a hot engineer hot engineer
[00:37:11.280] no hot shot engineer you might be hot
[00:37:13.280] too I don't know but that you know
[00:37:15.680] you're fresh out of grad school maybe
[00:37:16.960] you're like the best PhD electrical
[00:37:18.920] engineer you want to do cool [ __ ] you
[00:37:20.960] want to publish an i e you want to like
[00:37:23.880] you know climb the ladder corporately
[00:37:26.119] you know and that kind of thing
[00:37:28.839] a Loy Martin executive comes to you yeah
[00:37:31.960] dude uh you're gonna I can reach into
[00:37:34.920] something really crazy but you're never
[00:37:36.920] going to publish papers on it you're
[00:37:38.880] never going to be able to tell people
[00:37:40.040] what you worked on and it's probably not
[00:37:42.480] the most career enhancing but if you
[00:37:44.400] want to work on something cool but I
[00:37:46.480] can't tell you because it's
[00:37:47.920] unacknowledged until you sign this piece
[00:37:50.040] of paper non-disclosure
[00:37:52.000] agreement
[00:37:53.680] um uh uh you know sorry but here's the
[00:37:58.200] Raw Deal and you know a lot of people
[00:38:00.040] are like [ __ ] you no and and it's not
[00:38:02.720] like locked Martin could broadcast this
[00:38:04.720] to universities like come work for us
[00:38:07.920] you'll work on crazy [ __ ] and but that
[00:38:10.560] is very akin to a lot of other black
[00:38:14.160] programs in the government that are on
[00:38:15.800] ackn knowledge in nature you don't know
[00:38:17.640] what you're signing them for until you
[00:38:18.960] get bred in and I've you know I've been
[00:38:20.599] brief to a lot of that kind of
[00:38:21.839] conventional stuff in my career so what
[00:38:24.760] that's one of the the problems that Bob
[00:38:27.839] Lazar and I'd love to get your take on
[00:38:29.359] Bob Lazar one of one of the things that
[00:38:31.119] he talked about was that science can't
[00:38:34.680] really operate in a vacuum when you
[00:38:36.760] separate the metallurgists from the
[00:38:39.280] propulsions experts from the biological
[00:38:41.920] experts like and they're not allowed to
[00:38:43.800] communicate with each other and they're
[00:38:44.920] not allowed to bring in other experts to
[00:38:46.599] have different well that was the
[00:38:48.119] frustration that um I had some friends
[00:38:50.319] that I've known my entire career like
[00:38:52.000] almost 14 years right I literally know
[00:38:54.240] them personally um I had a relationship
[00:38:57.079] with them but they ended up you know
[00:38:59.560] spilling the beans where you know look
[00:39:01.560] we're we're on the program I'm an
[00:39:03.160] engineer for X Y and Z we can't even
[00:39:06.240] cross talk across like the cubicles for
[00:39:09.599] God's sakes like I can't I'm looking at
[00:39:12.000] Material X doing some um x-ray
[00:39:15.440] defraction testing on it which is like
[00:39:17.280] shooting a stream of electrons and
[00:39:19.000] seeing how how it bends and looking at
[00:39:21.200] the atomic Arrangements I can't even
[00:39:23.280] like cross talk that with another aspect
[00:39:25.599] of the program this is like ridiculous
[00:39:28.000] and and that's kind of their
[00:39:30.400] frustration um yeah I knew you're
[00:39:32.400] probably going to ask me about B Bazar I
[00:39:34.000] know I fig I figured as much um why did
[00:39:37.079] they do that though if everybody was
[00:39:38.359] already sworn to secrecy everybody
[00:39:39.680] already has ndas it seems the most
[00:39:42.200] effective way of reverse engineering or
[00:39:44.640] at least gaining an understanding of how
[00:39:46.359] these things are structured well that's
[00:39:47.599] exactly how Manhattan was right people
[00:39:49.359] working on the fuses for the bomb didn't
[00:39:51.960] necessarily know it was going to a
[00:39:53.560] nuclear weapon and so and I've seen this
[00:39:56.400] kind of compartmentation is up secrecy
[00:39:58.440] in other programs and it is debilitating
[00:40:00.520] for progress and honestly as a fidu
[00:40:03.760] former fiduciary of the taxpayer dollars
[00:40:05.920] it's not the best modus operandus to do
[00:40:09.240] it that
[00:40:10.160] way and very few people kind of had that
[00:40:12.960] top down could look across the silos and
[00:40:16.079] see what was going on it just became
[00:40:17.800] very dysfunctional and they were afraid
[00:40:20.319] of people being too cross briefed into
[00:40:22.640] the different silos for counter
[00:40:24.920] Espionage Counter Intelligence that you
[00:40:27.520] know they were got to remember a bulk of
[00:40:29.920] this program was done during the Cold
[00:40:32.079] War and you know we were afraid of
[00:40:34.400] Russian spies Soviet moles and so we
[00:40:36.960] made it Ultra locked down but to the
[00:40:39.720] detriment of National Security and that
[00:40:41.839] was one of the crazy things that got me
[00:40:44.319] that I wanted to whistleblow on because
[00:40:45.839] I'm like this is so stupid like we
[00:40:47.880] should be making more progress on this
[00:40:49.720] were there any breaches that you're
[00:40:51.000] aware of we foreign agents were able to
[00:40:53.000] gain access to materials or an
[00:40:55.280] understanding of what we know
[00:40:59.000] so I'll tell you about some Intel
[00:41:00.560] documents I read that kind of obliquely
[00:41:02.400] answers that question so uh there were
[00:41:05.599] sens of human derve foreign intelligence
[00:41:08.040] that I read um so I had access to kind
[00:41:11.640] of the atip assap uh classified archives
[00:41:14.760] and I was like thumbing through
[00:41:16.079] everything and there's some other people
[00:41:17.640] were bringing me documents to
[00:41:19.880] evaluate and I'll never forget I had um
[00:41:24.880] what it say stolen by the US in
[00:41:28.040] assessment from a certain foreign
[00:41:29.880] adversary discussing the US reverse
[00:41:33.520] engineering program and I was like and
[00:41:36.280] that was actually another like what the
[00:41:38.319] [ __ ] and and so I had an adversary also
[00:41:42.560] confirm this program literally because
[00:41:45.040] of exfiltrated
[00:41:46.599] intelligence and so they certainly had a
[00:41:50.839] limited knowledge at least fact of that
[00:41:53.599] the US had a program like this a
[00:41:55.480] particular adversary and actually
[00:41:58.880] I was like well I want more like it I
[00:42:00.880] know who wrote this literally or who got
[00:42:02.680] it right uh on behalf of the United
[00:42:04.480] States government so I went to that
[00:42:05.640] certain agency through the approved and
[00:42:07.960] official way and this is kind of part of
[00:42:10.319] the myus reprisals against me uh the
[00:42:14.400] agency was like oh yes we have what
[00:42:16.400] you're looking for Dave um you're going
[00:42:19.280] to need to sign a one-time reading to
[00:42:21.599] something you know come visit us to you
[00:42:24.760] know go to the Vault and read it right
[00:42:26.200] you know hard copy M uh but yes we have
[00:42:28.960] what you're looking for and
[00:42:32.160] ultimately uh from what I was told by
[00:42:34.200] friends in higher places my request kind
[00:42:36.280] of went up the flag pole at that
[00:42:38.319] agency and all of a sudden the agency
[00:42:42.119] ghosted my boss and I for like two
[00:42:44.200] months and then when I really press them
[00:42:46.640] hard to gain access because I'm like I
[00:42:49.079] have a need to know I need to evaluate
[00:42:51.520] this intelligence for [ __ ]
[00:42:53.800] Congress and they debriefed me
[00:42:57.960] uh from all my accesses over in that
[00:43:00.760] other sister agency and made up some
[00:43:04.040] bogus excuse like I shouldn't have been
[00:43:05.680] briefed to anything in the first place
[00:43:07.760] literally and basically gave me an
[00:43:10.280] administrative M middle finger like
[00:43:12.240] person non gra don't ever [ __ ] ask us
[00:43:15.079] about that [ __ ] again I and I I I'm sure
[00:43:18.079] the person who made the oops that told
[00:43:20.240] me they had what I was looking for
[00:43:22.480] probably got admonished and slapped on
[00:43:24.200] the wrist cuz I never heard from that
[00:43:26.119] person again even though was somebody I
[00:43:28.160] actually used to work on occasion with
[00:43:31.160] so uh that was also another way I knew
[00:43:34.559] um I was uh you know there was a lot of
[00:43:38.400] smoke and fire because I you know had
[00:43:40.480] stuff like that happen to me
[00:43:42.960] so
[00:43:44.559] this but knowing that our adversaries
[00:43:49.040] were aware of this reverse engineering
[00:43:52.200] program are we aware of their reverse
[00:43:55.000] engineering programs yeah how which uh
[00:43:58.200] countries uh you could you could
[00:44:00.359] probably guess and you wouldn't be uh it
[00:44:03.160] won't be too shocking okay but I won't
[00:44:05.000] acknowledge what the US may know right
[00:44:07.960] so are we aware of numbers in terms of
[00:44:11.920] like at least a rough estimate of how
[00:44:14.200] many are available to these other yeah
[00:44:18.040] how many uh I can't that's like super
[00:44:20.359] there's more than one yeah you could
[00:44:22.559] read into that you could read into that
[00:44:24.520] and has anyone made any progress
[00:44:29.000] yeah I can't get into if we've made
[00:44:31.640] progress if they've made progress
[00:44:33.599] because that's like straight up some
[00:44:34.920] national security stuff but like I want
[00:44:38.000] the just to be clear I want the US
[00:44:40.680] populace to learn a lot of this and this
[00:44:43.720] is why you know another reason why I
[00:44:45.640] went public is like I need to call
[00:44:47.960] everybody out I'm not here to admonish
[00:44:49.839] the entire government mind you but there
[00:44:52.119] is an element of the US government and
[00:44:54.200] its clear defense contractor base that
[00:44:57.559] you know we have a three branch of
[00:44:59.640] government oversight issue like going
[00:45:01.520] back to Harry Reid Harry Reid didn't
[00:45:03.200] even get access I [ __ ] talked to him
[00:45:04.880] myself to confirm that and he said he
[00:45:07.319] was going to go talk to Biden um because
[00:45:11.400] I think there needs to be a disclosure
[00:45:13.200] plan this goes back to what's currently
[00:45:15.319] in legislation right now that's super
[00:45:17.240] [ __ ] important um because 90 some 90
[00:45:22.280] some odd percent of this should should
[00:45:24.720] be open for public discovery public um
[00:45:28.440] analysis and Academia this should be
[00:45:31.040] like at very least true nuclear programs
[00:45:34.559] such as Nuclear Physics you study in a
[00:45:37.280] university nuclear weapons classified
[00:45:40.880] because that makes people in the pink
[00:45:42.800] misted that's really sensitive we don't
[00:45:44.599] need everybody to know how to do that so
[00:45:48.280] I think the stuff that is like legit
[00:45:50.359] weapons related stuff that's like
[00:45:52.240] straight up national superiority stuff
[00:45:54.559] sure reasonably classifi that but but
[00:45:59.240] this these programs we need a change and
[00:46:02.800] that's why you saw the Schumer Amendment
[00:46:05.359] right and I think you might have read
[00:46:07.640] that on air or something in a previous
[00:46:09.079] episode I remember correctly you know
[00:46:11.400] Chuck Schumer and I knew about the
[00:46:13.079] amendment a couple months before I went
[00:46:14.559] public and that's kind of another reason
[00:46:16.280] why I did what I did I'm like [ __ ] I'm
[00:46:19.200] like the only guy that kind of has the
[00:46:20.920] opportunity to do this I know what's in
[00:46:23.400] the shoot so to speak that Chuck Schumer
[00:46:25.280] and his staff had with the Schumer M
[00:46:27.640] which is 67 pages of literal we want to
[00:46:32.119] disclose and I'm like I have to spike
[00:46:34.920] the football by going public because you
[00:46:37.480] know I can read the tea leaves on the
[00:46:39.079] hill and I think that they were hesitant
[00:46:40.559] to do
[00:46:41.760] anything uh without being able to point
[00:46:44.319] to something publicly and I'm like I'll
[00:46:46.359] be that [ __ ] guy and just send it
[00:46:49.599] um and and then of course a month after
[00:46:52.720] I went public I guess I pushed Chuck
[00:46:56.960] Schumer over the ledge and I do know he
[00:46:59.160] talked to the White House about the
[00:47:00.760] amendment too because not like Chuck
[00:47:02.359] Schumer is going to propose
[00:47:04.359] groundbreaking legislation like that
[00:47:06.040] without talking to the National Security
[00:47:07.800] adviser or president like I imagine he
[00:47:10.319] did so and you know so you have the 67
[00:47:13.920] page amendments right it's called the
[00:47:15.720] UAP disclosure Act of
[00:47:17.920] 2023 known as the Schumer Amendment
[00:47:20.559] co-sponsors were young Gill brand
[00:47:24.440] Rubio uh rounds yeah and Young
[00:47:27.520] and you know kudos for those Senators
[00:47:29.280] for stepping up to the plate because
[00:47:32.040] they know this is real I know what
[00:47:33.680] meetings that they've had with certain
[00:47:34.760] other individuals that are you know even
[00:47:36.839] more credible than myself and so this
[00:47:40.079] this act which is like super important
[00:47:43.359] is currently in conference as we speak
[00:47:46.720] in Capitol Hill so the amendment is
[00:47:49.319] wrapped in something called the fiscal
[00:47:51.280] year
[00:47:52.400] 2024 National Defense authorization act
[00:47:55.040] so that is the act that funds the mil
[00:47:56.839] military basically every year right so
[00:47:58.559] it's an amendment within this
[00:48:00.800] bill and uh the ACT is really long but
[00:48:04.359] the main meat of it is about halfway
[00:48:07.480] through the act it talks about a
[00:48:09.520] presidential panel or agency which is
[00:48:11.920] nine person and a controlled UAP
[00:48:15.599] disclosure plan that's six years in
[00:48:17.359] length conceivably from 2024 to 20130
[00:48:21.280] and this panel and you can read this
[00:48:23.079] this is public law anybody can read this
[00:48:25.520] they want a scientist a ists you know
[00:48:28.319] you know sociologists Etc it's kind of
[00:48:31.119] like who you would want to help craft
[00:48:34.240] the plan for the president and this
[00:48:36.119] whole bill was actually built off the
[00:48:39.200] JFK records act which I know like
[00:48:41.079] they're like well they never released
[00:48:42.319] all the records well we put some teeth
[00:48:43.880] in the bill some eminent domains some
[00:48:45.720] other stuff to you know kind of force
[00:48:48.720] the issue now granted the chief
[00:48:50.280] executive the president has the final
[00:48:52.280] say the panel can't compel the executive
[00:48:55.280] to do it but like I hope the president
[00:48:57.760] does and I support that but so the
[00:49:02.119] Senate already passed it they're chill
[00:49:03.640] with this this is like we're we're good
[00:49:05.520] to go and and but there's push back in
[00:49:08.520] the house right now that is you know
[00:49:11.040] pardon my language [ __ ] ridiculous so
[00:49:14.160] they're saying for one it's duplicating
[00:49:17.440] the dod Arrow's office activities
[00:49:20.200] they're doing good things they're
[00:49:21.680] looking at UAP reports trying to figure
[00:49:23.559] out what's balloons and air trash and
[00:49:25.960] what's weird stuff and of course they
[00:49:27.799] are doing an historical review to try to
[00:49:31.599] understand the US's history on this too
[00:49:33.440] but the problem is with that
[00:49:35.119] agency it it's within the dodn I not
[00:49:38.960] above so you have an issue reaching into
[00:49:41.720] Department of energy other you know
[00:49:44.400] cabinet level agencies so you need a
[00:49:47.119] presidential level panel that can
[00:49:50.000] declassify stuff reach into other
[00:49:52.280] agencies and tell you know certain
[00:49:54.319] secretaries we're coming in we want your
[00:49:56.359] stuff
[00:49:57.280] under presidential Authority so what's
[00:49:59.839] happening in the
[00:50:01.079] house from what I'm told from people on
[00:50:03.720] the hill that are working the issue
[00:50:05.079] right now you have the the chair of the
[00:50:08.359] house Intel committee Mike Turner who's
[00:50:10.119] blocking this uh from Ohio Dayton Ohio
[00:50:13.559] area right Pat
[00:50:15.520] weird and right Pat meaning right
[00:50:17.760] Patterson Air Force yeah and uh Mike
[00:50:20.680] Rogers which I'm kind of surprised uh
[00:50:22.760] from Alabama who's the chair of the
[00:50:24.480] house armed services committee so I have
[00:50:27.000] a problem with Mike and Mike right now
[00:50:28.960] so Mike Turner now remember I went to
[00:50:33.240] his Committee in December last year he
[00:50:35.400] wasn't there but his staff and lawyers
[00:50:38.040] were and of course he goes on Fox
[00:50:41.240] Business after the hearing doesn't use
[00:50:43.520] my names like this whistleblower he has
[00:50:45.200] no idea what he's talking about I'm like
[00:50:48.000] really tell me Mike have you ever been
[00:50:50.599] an Intel officer or served in the
[00:50:52.680] military oh wait you've been the a mayor
[00:50:54.520] the mayor of Dayton Ohio you were voted
[00:50:57.040] most corrupt person in Congress a couple
[00:50:59.839] uh years ago and uh pull up his pack
[00:51:02.799] donors who are his biggest donors locked
[00:51:05.680] Ron
[00:51:06.920] Boeing okay so uh and first of all if
[00:51:10.799] you thought that you needed more
[00:51:11.920] information or wanted to talk to me
[00:51:13.359] personally why didn't you call me back
[00:51:15.480] when I reported to your committee so uh
[00:51:18.720] and furthermore besides blocking the
[00:51:20.640] bill I'm sure you're familiar with like
[00:51:22.799] representative Tim bersett of Alabama
[00:51:26.319] and he's been very outspoken on the
[00:51:28.000] issue we may not agree with everything
[00:51:29.880] Tim says about conventional stuff that's
[00:51:32.079] you know here no there but you know he's
[00:51:34.799] been a champion on the oversight
[00:51:36.160] committee and he was you know one of the
[00:51:38.040] members that I testified in public under
[00:51:40.799] oath regarding this so like uh and Mike
[00:51:44.520] Turner is looking to fund according to
[00:51:47.440] staffers I've talked to last two weeks
[00:51:50.319] an opposition candidate for Tim's
[00:51:52.599] re-election in 2024 so why is Mike
[00:51:55.160] Turner going out of his way to destroy
[00:51:58.119] the career of a courageous Tennessee
[00:52:01.240] representative on the oversight
[00:52:03.200] committee and why are you blocking a
[00:52:06.040] bill and it's not going to cost much
[00:52:08.160] couple million a year Max you know for
[00:52:10.079] the panel which is like vaporware in US
[00:52:12.040] Government speak right um uh if there's
[00:52:15.400] nothing to see here why are Mike Rogers
[00:52:17.359] and Mike Turner in the house blocking
[00:52:19.960] this bill that is in my opinion the most
[00:52:24.160] important legislation for in transpar
[00:52:26.599] parency in American history if there's
[00:52:29.040] nothing to see here if I'm [ __ ] crazy
[00:52:32.040] multistar generals I talk to are crazy
[00:52:33.880] the Intel docs that I read are incorrect
[00:52:35.799] they're [ __ ] forgeries or passage
[00:52:38.000] material or something like
[00:52:39.880] that good friends of mine that worked on
[00:52:42.040] the program are bullshitting me in some
[00:52:44.319] consorted uh operation against me and my
[00:52:47.000] colleagues that it would be totally
[00:52:48.640] crazy to even conduct that because I
[00:52:51.119] took precautions then why don't we just
[00:52:54.280] pass this and see what happens
[00:52:57.400] and why what do you think the answer to
[00:52:58.680] that is special interests want to keep
[00:53:01.280] the genie in the bottle even though the
[00:53:02.720] toothpaste is coming out of the tube and
[00:53:04.319] I think it's like a death rattle in this
[00:53:07.440] industrial complex that doesn't want
[00:53:09.599] change and I'm not here to be some total
[00:53:13.000] adversary I I think there needs to be a
[00:53:15.160] Truth and Reconciliation process on this
[00:53:17.960] issue I'm not here to throw people in
[00:53:20.200] jail I'm not here for big contractors
[00:53:23.720] involved to lose money I think this is
[00:53:26.000] would be a Boon and I think the
[00:53:28.119] leadership in these companies need to
[00:53:29.839] think about this where if we're more
[00:53:32.040] open with this you can hire people you
[00:53:35.520] can push the subject into undergraduate
[00:53:38.079] graduates and
[00:53:39.440] post-doctoral programs of uh you know
[00:53:41.839] research to study this in an
[00:53:43.240] unclassified just like nuclear physics
[00:53:46.640] and this answers a fundamental
[00:53:51.119] question uh you know for Humanity are we
[00:53:53.599] alone or you know what happens when we
[00:53:55.480] die well I don't know about that but are
[00:53:57.400] we alone well the answer is we're not
[00:53:59.359] alone and I know that with 100%
[00:54:02.559] certainty which as an Intel officer you
[00:54:04.559] never say 100%
[00:54:07.000] but all things pointed
[00:54:09.760] towards uh based on the people I talked
[00:54:12.079] to like Harry Reid and I use him as an
[00:54:15.000] example but I talk to the highest of the
[00:54:18.079] high people you could possibly talk to
[00:54:20.400] if you catch my drift so
[00:54:22.359] MH unless all them are lying and they're
[00:54:25.040] covering up something else which I don't
[00:54:26.559] even know what it would be at this point
[00:54:28.040] because the
[00:54:29.160] phenomenon is real it's been going on
[00:54:31.880] for thousands of years people been
[00:54:34.000] seeing strange things and not
[00:54:35.480] everybody's Mass hallucinating so that's
[00:54:38.000] kind of my long diet tribe about what's
[00:54:39.440] happening what do they think these
[00:54:41.280] things are the people that you talk to
[00:54:44.559] so they specifically the people on the
[00:54:47.079] program that handled the material that
[00:54:49.839] were in executive level briefings with
[00:54:53.000] Intel Community leaders and other folks
[00:54:55.040] over the years last years or so they did
[00:54:57.520] use the term extraterrestrial ET or
[00:55:01.799] whatever okay that isn't a possible
[00:55:04.520] origin but the Schumer Amendment if you
[00:55:06.839] read it it specifically uses non-human
[00:55:08.839] intelligence NH hii very deliberately
[00:55:12.040] because we want to catch everything
[00:55:14.880] because what if some of this stuff is
[00:55:16.280] not ET and they're going to use as an
[00:55:18.119] escape Clause like well this stuff that
[00:55:20.240] we don't even know if it's
[00:55:21.119] extraterrestrial so this doesn't apply
[00:55:23.319] so that's why we wanted to be as broad
[00:55:26.000] as possible possible I mean besides ET I
[00:55:28.440] mean a lot of it would be my
[00:55:30.760] own uh personal opinion I think we have
[00:55:35.760] a couple conceivable buckets and I'm
[00:55:40.039] using the work of jacqu
[00:55:42.960] valet other people that have thought
[00:55:44.960] deeply on the issue on how the
[00:55:46.720] phenomenon has changed since an
[00:55:48.920] Antiquity it showed it showed itself in
[00:55:52.079] a different way like a good example is
[00:55:54.000] like witches sitting on your chest
[00:55:55.680] phenomenon with you know paralysis and
[00:55:59.280] medieval and Enlightenment area you know
[00:56:01.440] era became this alien abduction
[00:56:04.480] phenomenon uh in the modern area era
[00:56:07.720] excuse me and is it is it the the
[00:56:11.400] recipient and their analytical overlay
[00:56:13.640] cognitively seeing the phenomenon based
[00:56:16.280] on a Moder interpretation you know
[00:56:18.680] inside out or is the phenomenon this is
[00:56:21.440] like jacqu Val's book passport to mag
[00:56:24.000] Magnolia Magnolia I can never pronounce
[00:56:25.599] it right 19 1969 where he talks about
[00:56:28.839] the phenomenon seems to like masquerade
[00:56:31.440] itself as different stuff over the years
[00:56:34.599] but you know we've seen roughly the same
[00:56:37.119] stuff if you look at the Foo Fighters of
[00:56:39.119] World War II uh there are Declassified
[00:56:41.960] Air Force OSI reports from the 50s
[00:56:44.119] people can Google that talk about flying
[00:56:46.880] butane tanks with the same measurements
[00:56:50.240] approximately what we saw in the 2004
[00:56:53.000] Tic Tac incident but they called it
[00:56:54.520] flying propane or you know butane tanks
[00:56:57.200] in the 50s so uh from a morphology or in
[00:57:01.920] the Air Force Intel we call it vrei
[00:57:04.079] visual reconnaissance like they
[00:57:06.160] basically look the same and we can back
[00:57:08.720] asouth that you know decades if not
[00:57:12.680] hundreds of years in the past you know
[00:57:14.359] wheels of Ezekiel right they're seeing
[00:57:16.039] these like disc type objects right and
[00:57:18.640] unless Ezekiel is uh tripping or this is
[00:57:21.440] an allegory or fable in the in the Bible
[00:57:24.039] you know let's say the event happens
[00:57:25.720] just like the in the viic text you have
[00:57:28.520] the battles the blue people and the uh
[00:57:31.200] battles in the sky that sound like
[00:57:33.240] nuclear and directed energy weapons like
[00:57:35.240] what's going on there I mean maybe
[00:57:36.680] that's a Graham Hancock or Randall
[00:57:38.760] Carlson type thing they could they know
[00:57:40.839] more than I so there is a real
[00:57:43.760] phenomenon that uh origin undetermined
[00:57:47.599] but it it's trippy and sometimes it
[00:57:50.200] presents itself in like a non-corporeal
[00:57:52.280] form too you know orbs balls of
[00:57:57.359] uh you know they don't appear as like
[00:57:59.200] some kind of bipedal hominid like some
[00:58:01.760] people have espoused so I think that
[00:58:05.039] might
[00:58:06.039] be call it interdimensional call it
[00:58:08.839] Shadow biome crypto terrest I mean
[00:58:11.039] there's a lot of different theories what
[00:58:13.200] are the primary the the primary theories
[00:58:15.000] are from another planet or From Another
[00:58:18.480] Dimension I think those are the primary
[00:58:20.599] I mean there's
[00:58:22.039] certainly Origins that we probably can't
[00:58:24.599] conceptualize as humans but because
[00:58:26.359] we're just our meat is stuck in 3D and
[00:58:29.079] we don't understand and our IQs are only
[00:58:31.480] so high so there might be some Origins
[00:58:33.440] that we don't understand in terms of
[00:58:36.160] like interdimensional travel yeah I mean
[00:58:39.039] obviously you know if you talk to
[00:58:40.480] mainstream physicists they say like
[00:58:42.160] Crossing Dimensions physically is kind
[00:58:45.000] of a
[00:58:45.839] Trope of sci-fi and you know I that's
[00:58:48.920] why I used an example and I know some
[00:58:52.240] physicists don't like me talking about
[00:58:53.920] this Theory but it is a theory you know
[00:58:55.720] like so the holographic principle which
[00:58:57.599] was
[00:58:58.559] originally conceived to explain how
[00:59:01.319] information is encoded on an event
[00:59:04.480] horizon of a black hole which is a
[00:59:07.319] distance away from the singularity of a
[00:59:09.200] black hole where if you cross it you're
[00:59:10.960] [ __ ] because you're going to get rip
[00:59:12.240] the shreds or you're not coming back and
[00:59:15.920] uh that principle talks about how
[00:59:18.880] information basically from higher
[00:59:20.480] dimensional space can be
[00:59:22.200] encoded in lower dimensional space and
[00:59:24.760] the easiest example is like us casting a
[00:59:28.280] shadow on a sidewalk right
[00:59:30.280] three-dimensional object 2D shadow on a
[00:59:33.359] sidewalk if you lived in two-dimensional
[00:59:36.000] space flat land you'd be tripped out
[00:59:38.640] what the [ __ ] am I seeing but they just
[00:59:41.200] don't know that it's really just a
[00:59:42.640] person in higher dimensional space so is
[00:59:44.720] some of the I mean obviously we have
[00:59:47.000] physical material that's in
[00:59:48.039] three-dimensional space that we've
[00:59:49.200] recovered but at least maybe some of the
[00:59:52.280] phenomenon is really operating in higher
[00:59:55.240] spatial dimension ions but is either
[00:59:57.520] being projected or quasi projected into
[01:00:00.039] our 3D plus time space which is really
[01:00:02.960] trippy to think about but we literally
[01:00:04.680] do it on a day-to-day basis like casting
[01:00:06.839] Shadows so and that might be some of
[01:00:09.079] what we're seeing too but I mean I
[01:00:11.359] presume we know more the people I talked
[01:00:14.400] to did not uhouse they had full
[01:00:17.559] knowledge either like I said the the
[01:00:19.400] normal cism was to say ET or
[01:00:22.480] extraterrestrial could you dumb down
[01:00:24.960] this concept of
[01:00:27.400] interdimensional like yeah
[01:00:29.799] what I know in physics they have
[01:00:33.079] theorized that there are multiple
[01:00:34.680] Dimensions other than those that we can
[01:00:36.359] currently detect yeah and a lot of that
[01:00:38.559] is based off of like L this is my
[01:00:41.319] bachelor's degree talking I know there's
[01:00:42.960] going to be like some physicists who has
[01:00:44.400] a PHD is like oh da if you [ __ ] that up
[01:00:46.799] but right but basically you know from
[01:00:50.039] high energy particle collisions and
[01:00:51.799] based on the the flection Angles and all
[01:00:53.760] the stuff what happens when the
[01:00:54.880] particles collide
[01:00:56.520] you know uh you know confirm certain
[01:01:00.160] theoretical Frameworks about extras
[01:01:02.000] spatial dimensions and you know I can't
[01:01:04.280] speak uh with any real Authority on you
[01:01:06.720] know precisely how that works but a lot
[01:01:10.200] of um whether it be String Theory or
[01:01:12.640] quantum mechanics are based off of
[01:01:14.400] higher spatial dimensions and um you
[01:01:18.359] know so that is a mainstream physics uh
[01:01:22.240] theoretical framework that's not like
[01:01:23.760] wacky or Looney or anything like that
[01:01:26.440] so but that's basically uh a possibility
[01:01:31.200] but like I said like we don't really
[01:01:33.440] have a good theory if you if you work if
[01:01:35.240] you lived in like 5D space for example
[01:01:37.799] it's almost like um remember the ending
[01:01:40.079] of the movie Interstellar right where
[01:01:42.440] where he's pushing the books he's like
[01:01:44.359] in a tesseract you know which is like a
[01:01:46.039] four to 5D structure but he's trying to
[01:01:48.520] interact with 3D space and of course he
[01:01:50.799] like leaves that space to come back to
[01:01:52.680] his daughter many years later at the end
[01:01:54.400] of ending of the movie great movie
[01:01:57.000] but um so uh that's a way to
[01:01:59.680] conceptualize it in something you may
[01:02:01.559] have watched in film it's kind of like
[01:02:04.319] the ending of inter Interstellar oh yeah
[01:02:06.279] yeah there you go
[01:02:08.559] yeah which is based on what like what
[01:02:11.920] theory so the physicist Kip Thorne was
[01:02:15.440] the very famous guy he was a big black
[01:02:17.720] hole and Wormhole guy I think it's
[01:02:20.039] Caltech or somewhere in California Kip
[01:02:23.200] Thorne actually did all the physics
[01:02:24.799] equations and everything for Christopher
[01:02:26.760] Nolan to make sure that they were
[01:02:30.279] conceptualizing and
[01:02:32.119] visualizing uh black holes and wormholes
[01:02:34.880] and all that stuff correctly in the
[01:02:36.200] movie where you saw like the the halo
[01:02:38.440] around the Black Hole uh when they were
[01:02:41.160] coming in with the ship and everything
[01:02:43.000] that's actually based off of real
[01:02:44.319] physics models that uh Kip Thorne did
[01:02:46.400] the calculations for which is pretty
[01:02:48.279] cool actually that Christopher Nolan
[01:02:49.680] took it to that level you know so this
[01:02:52.359] idea that these beings or whatever you
[01:02:55.400] want to call them exist in some other
[01:02:58.440] dimension do we
[01:03:01.160] have I mean I don't know what you can
[01:03:03.000] say about this do we have an
[01:03:05.039] understanding do we have any sort of
[01:03:07.960] communication with these beings that
[01:03:10.920] give us some sort of an understanding or
[01:03:12.839] a map of this yeah the interaction stuff
[01:03:17.160] uh it's a sensitive
[01:03:19.240] area um there were multiple very senior
[01:03:22.279] people that were concerned about talking
[01:03:24.359] about that kind of stuff with me uh I
[01:03:26.200] mean that is
[01:03:27.319] certainly as nuts as it sounds that was
[01:03:29.839] a real subject of conversation even it
[01:03:31.720] sounds like something out of like Star
[01:03:33.160] Trek first Contact but it doesn't if you
[01:03:35.359] have vehicles yeah so it's it's like
[01:03:38.200] once you realize the phenomenon's
[01:03:40.799] real then you realize we've recovered
[01:03:43.680] artifacts and you know biologics or you
[01:03:46.559] know dead Pilots if you will even though
[01:03:48.440] it's you know kind of creepy to even
[01:03:50.799] think about that in your
[01:03:53.200] worldview you don't think they were ever
[01:03:56.480] you know alive sometimes too right and I
[01:03:58.760] you know I'll leave it at that only
[01:04:00.039] because that you know that is something
[01:04:03.359] you know the the president in his
[01:04:05.839] cabinet needed to disclose this in a
[01:04:07.520] controlled manner going back to that
[01:04:09.079] Amendment you know I'm not
[01:04:11.279] here to uh you know push the subject in
[01:04:14.839] an
[01:04:15.599] improper way and that sounds like why
[01:04:17.960] don't you just do it Dave like there's a
[01:04:19.760] lot of secondary and tertiary
[01:04:22.559] ramifications so economically
[01:04:24.799] theologically
[01:04:26.480] um our relationship geopolitically with
[01:04:28.319] our allies and adversaries this is not
[01:04:32.000] uh rip off the Band-Aid and it's simple
[01:04:35.200] there there's there's a lot of complex
[01:04:37.160] stuff behind the scenes that need to
[01:04:38.680] happen and that's why I'm I'm laying out
[01:04:41.119] all the general stuff that needs to be
[01:04:42.839] talked about during the disclosure
[01:04:44.359] process but I should not be the one
[01:04:46.480] disclosing and it would be highly
[01:04:49.400] inappropriate because I care about the
[01:04:51.920] health of the United States and its
[01:04:53.319] people and National Security for me to
[01:04:55.760] do so so I know there's people that are
[01:04:57.400] like oh why doesn't Dave say X Y and Z
[01:04:59.559] it's like this is serious this is not
[01:05:02.039] like haha let me tell you a good story
[01:05:04.960] I'm a serious guy I ruined my [ __ ]
[01:05:07.079] career doing this I was going to make
[01:05:08.839] lieutenant colonel in the Air Force in
[01:05:10.880] this winter I was on track to be you
[01:05:13.440] know a flag officer equivalent civilian
[01:05:15.920] uh in my career uh I spent 18 years in
[01:05:18.799] uniform uh if you count the cadet time
[01:05:21.279] right uh my whole adult life was serving
[01:05:24.319] as an Intel officer but I wanted to see
[01:05:27.680] and I'm 36 right older Millennial I
[01:05:29.720] wanted to see change so I'm throwing the
[01:05:32.920] flag out and I'm here to hold the
[01:05:36.039] government accountable to do the right
[01:05:37.640] thing in a manner that is mature and
[01:05:41.960] thorough because I don't begin to say
[01:05:44.279] that I know everything all the different
[01:05:47.000] ramifications of saying certain things
[01:05:49.200] publicly I don't know all the answers to
[01:05:51.520] that and that's why I have to be careful
[01:05:53.559] cuz I don't even know I'll call it you
[01:05:55.799] know collateral damage effects to use
[01:05:57.359] kind of a military term what may happen
[01:05:59.920] of certain things in detail that are
[01:06:03.079] revealed that I might not know the
[01:06:04.680] ramifications thereof because there's
[01:06:06.599] something that I'm not privy to so this
[01:06:08.960] is like a serious this is not like a fun
[01:06:11.480] situation this is like a Humanity
[01:06:13.720] changing hopefully in a good way but
[01:06:16.119] this is like you
[01:06:17.880] know uh quite serious and I you know
[01:06:21.440] risked my personal and professional life
[01:06:23.760] and I personal life because things have
[01:06:25.799] happened to
[01:06:26.799] me uh to be public like this and and you
[01:06:31.279] know I swore an oath but you know myself
[01:06:33.760] and my generation you know want to see
[01:06:35.319] it change can you discuss the things
[01:06:37.079] that have happened to you personally
[01:06:38.680] yeah so uh a lot of the stuff I have to
[01:06:41.559] be purposely vague because there's an
[01:06:43.160] open Inspector General reprisal
[01:06:45.279] investigation on my behalf and I'm not
[01:06:47.000] here to compromise the investigation by
[01:06:49.039] tipping off my antibodies that may be
[01:06:52.279] watching right now
[01:06:54.200] but you know when I really started
[01:06:56.599] looking into this I mean they came after
[01:06:58.880] me so hard to try to revoke my
[01:07:02.400] clearance um ruined my career kicked me
[01:07:05.760] out of my agency and they accused me of
[01:07:11.160] everything you could possibly think of
[01:07:14.240] with like no evidence uh for
[01:07:17.279] example at first they they wanted to say
[01:07:19.799] oh Dave uh you have mental health stuff
[01:07:22.440] you didn't report to us we're concerned
[01:07:24.319] cuz we we think you might have have an
[01:07:25.799] ongoing mental health issue I'm like
[01:07:28.000] what are you talking about I reported
[01:07:30.720] that I had PTSD from
[01:07:32.920] Afghanistan in my military service
[01:07:35.160] several years ago and I sought help for
[01:07:37.000] that like I I'm not ashamed of that you
[01:07:38.559] know I'm high functioning autistic and
[01:07:41.319] and I didn't know that until my early
[01:07:42.599] 30s and and how I processed trauma I
[01:07:45.680] didn't really uh understand until many
[01:07:48.319] years later and you know I sought help
[01:07:51.039] for that and they were trying to say
[01:07:53.240] that like I had some Secret mental
[01:07:55.880] health problem that I haven't been
[01:07:58.279] reporting to so I had to go through this
[01:08:00.240] whole process three agencies at the same
[01:08:03.400] time investigated me for that which I
[01:08:06.240] don't even know if that's like legal
[01:08:08.680] they tried to say that I like mishandled
[01:08:10.559] classifi all this other stuff it was
[01:08:12.319] insane
[01:08:13.839] apparently I was under criminal
[01:08:15.960] investigation for a couple months and I
[01:08:17.640] didn't even know that and nor did they
[01:08:19.520] interview me but they made a uh finding
[01:08:23.000] with no evidence they tried to use
[01:08:24.480] against me that I had to spend money to
[01:08:26.960] basically litigate and maintain my
[01:08:28.839] employment my clearance which I did for
[01:08:30.880] the record I maintained my clearance I
[01:08:33.799] resigned with full accesses you know I'm
[01:08:36.839] just debriefed now but I maintained my
[01:08:39.159] top secret
[01:08:40.520] eligibility and I left with my own
[01:08:42.440] accord and and so and of course uh they
[01:08:47.000] ruined one of my boss's careers in
[01:08:49.319] another agency they walked him out of
[01:08:51.560] the building and revoked his clearance
[01:08:53.480] and terminated him as a show of force
[01:08:55.440] after they were going after me and um I
[01:08:58.799] feel sorry for that certain
[01:09:00.480] individual and they came after
[01:09:02.319] co-workers of mine I can't get into who
[01:09:04.359] what when where and why to protect their
[01:09:05.920] identities and their own process but so
[01:09:09.279] that's what happened to me
[01:09:10.199] professionally and
[01:09:12.640] then what happened to me personally
[01:09:15.640] was very
[01:09:17.799] disturbing um so I have to be very vague
[01:09:20.960] about this because ongoing investigation
[01:09:23.960] but I think you'll understand what I'm
[01:09:26.040] saying
[01:09:27.960] is uh they showed my wife and I they can
[01:09:31.080] touch me at any time two
[01:09:33.679] times and it was very disturbing it was
[01:09:36.799] in conjunction with some other people
[01:09:38.199] getting a message like that that are to
[01:09:40.719] say publicly wellknown some that aren't
[01:09:43.239] publicly wellknown
[01:09:44.759] and of course I immediately reported
[01:09:47.000] that to you know Counter Intelligence
[01:09:49.000] federal law enforcement local to me
[01:09:51.159] because it you know wasn't Criminal but
[01:09:53.040] it was like a [ __ ] you to me like
[01:09:56.239] and this was right before I filed my
[01:09:59.280] whistleblower complaint now I don't know
[01:10:01.000] who did this you know and entity who did
[01:10:04.239] X Y and Z to my wife and I identity
[01:10:07.199] unknown but it [ __ ] happens and I you
[01:10:09.520] know provided that documentation to a
[01:10:12.120] couple special
[01:10:13.480] agents and I just knew that it was
[01:10:17.239] getting
[01:10:18.360] serious and you know
[01:10:22.199] as first of all I'm the kind of person
[01:10:24.719] I'm I'm from Pittsburgh you know like
[01:10:26.880] steel toown I don't take [ __ ] from
[01:10:28.239] people and I decided [ __ ] it I'm going
[01:10:31.600] to file an inspector general complaint
[01:10:33.080] to protect myself I don't I'm in fear
[01:10:35.600] for my safety you know my wife's an Air
[01:10:38.120] Force veteran too and you know very
[01:10:40.320] strong individual but you know as a man
[01:10:42.760] you don't want to put your family at
[01:10:45.400] risk and you know did certain other
[01:10:48.239] measures which I won't talk about to
[01:10:49.679] protect myself uh you know physically
[01:10:53.120] and I could not believe
[01:10:56.199] that that was happening to me no kidding
[01:10:58.520] and I
[01:11:00.040] knew I needed to do something internally
[01:11:03.120] and then when I saw the writing on the
[01:11:05.159] wall uh earlier this year and of course
[01:11:07.560] I knew about the Schumer Amendment like
[01:11:08.679] I mentioned earlier and I knew I'm like
[01:11:10.280] you know I I got to do this for my own
[01:11:12.080] protection because me leaving the
[01:11:13.800] federal service because I resigned my
[01:11:15.520] Air Force commission I totally threw
[01:11:17.679] that career away um to do what I thought
[01:11:21.280] was the right and patriotic thing to
[01:11:24.000] whistleblow on this you know and I you
[01:11:26.600] know swore my oath 18 years ago and that
[01:11:29.719] sounds hokey but I believe you know
[01:11:32.640] Integrity first service for self and
[01:11:34.440] Excellence all we do that's the Air
[01:11:35.719] Force motto and I'm like I this is not
[01:11:38.719] going to help me personally like love
[01:11:41.960] talking to you um I like spreading this
[01:11:45.840] message because it's the right and
[01:11:46.880] ethical thing to do but this is a
[01:11:48.239] nightmare for me I don't want to be
[01:11:49.920] public I've served the country in
[01:11:52.120] clandestine and covert operations for 14
[01:11:54.000] years I've done technical intelligence
[01:11:56.840] for some of the most high-profile
[01:11:58.360] takedowns in US history I shouldn't even
[01:12:00.880] be here but I am because I want to see
[01:12:04.520] change I saw something unethical and
[01:12:07.040] unmoral I want to make sure I hold that
[01:12:09.159] element of the government
[01:12:11.159] accountable and it was the right [ __ ]
[01:12:13.800] thing to do and and I get kind of
[01:12:15.880] emotional about that because you know my
[01:12:18.719] career's been service and sacrifice and
[01:12:21.760] you know I had two friends of mine die
[01:12:23.960] and I've talked about this
[01:12:25.880] publicly before and I you know I'm
[01:12:29.000] segueing a little bit but the the
[01:12:31.320] suffering of the American intelligence
[01:12:33.239] officer is something that for their
[01:12:35.960] service of their country and we're not
[01:12:37.480] talking about this subject obviously
[01:12:39.920] people don't realize the kind of
[01:12:42.280] trauma uh Intel professionals go through
[01:12:45.560] so first of all I had a friend six
[01:12:47.840] months after I got back from Afghanistan
[01:12:49.760] his name is Captain Dave lion there's a
[01:12:51.560] park in Peterson space for bace named
[01:12:53.440] after him
[01:12:56.400] I remember see us cough and come off the
[01:12:57.960] plane stuff so um you know I saw him die
[01:13:02.280] that that [ __ ] me up for a number of
[01:13:03.960] years and that's what you know gave me a
[01:13:05.400] lot of my my problems that I ended up
[01:13:07.280] dealing with but then I had um I
[01:13:10.560] remarried uh and then my best man uh
[01:13:13.600] Captain Ben heiney Air Force
[01:13:15.760] intelligence officer Air Force Special
[01:13:17.400] Operations Command I've known him for
[01:13:18.880] years he's my closest friend you know
[01:13:21.480] best man at my wedding and then 28 Days
[01:13:23.800] Later
[01:13:26.199] uh unfortunately he suffered from
[01:13:27.480] depression and it was you know as his
[01:13:29.320] best friend he didn't even confide in me
[01:13:31.600] you know I remember chitchatting him to
[01:13:33.840] chatting with him on the phone one day
[01:13:36.320] about 28 days after he was my best man
[01:13:38.639] and I he didn't tell me anything was
[01:13:40.600] wrong with him and a few hours later he
[01:13:42.880] walked in his backyard and shot himself
[01:13:46.120] and you know I gave his eulogy um at his
[01:13:48.639] at his
[01:13:50.520] um at his funeral and that really uh you
[01:13:53.920] know really affected me in in and with
[01:13:56.480] what Ben
[01:13:57.760] experienced uh which I can't get into
[01:13:59.560] all the stuff he did obviously but
[01:14:02.000] imagine uh being the guy that decides
[01:14:04.800] that that
[01:14:05.880] person is bad fire the
[01:14:09.520] haire that person is now pink Mist
[01:14:12.239] they're dead you just played god let's
[01:14:14.920] go back to you know the wife and kids at
[01:14:17.360] the end of your shift and a lot of that
[01:14:19.639] I you know I did the same kind of thing
[01:14:21.480] I did a lot of stuff overseas involved
[01:14:24.440] interrogation
[01:14:26.239] and you know Ops that where you had to
[01:14:29.040] decide if a Target is bad enough where
[01:14:31.960] you're going to affect their life
[01:14:33.040] forever and their family's life forever
[01:14:35.719] and uh and that's the silent suffering
[01:14:38.360] of Intel professionals especially during
[01:14:40.040] the global war and Terror which was you
[01:14:41.360] know 21 years or so and um you
[01:14:45.560] know the the trauma and the mental
[01:14:48.000] health problems that
[01:14:49.600] people get from being an Intel
[01:14:51.719] professional in operational environment
[01:14:53.639] people think like special oper ators
[01:14:55.560] Pilots Etc you know army marines Ground
[01:14:59.040] Pounders and they certainly have their
[01:15:01.480] own trauma but it's this weird
[01:15:04.000] Insidious am I in a video game is this
[01:15:06.840] real trauma that intelligence
[01:15:09.239] professionals and I just wanted to
[01:15:10.320] highlight that during this show because
[01:15:11.800] that was just a near and dear to myself
[01:15:15.239] uh so people are aware of the service of
[01:15:18.600] military intelligence and civilian
[01:15:21.000] intelligence professionals
[01:15:22.800] that have to make really tough decision
[01:15:25.239] for the country that um affect people's
[01:15:27.360] lives on the receiving end you know so
[01:15:30.040] was there a concern while you're going
[01:15:32.400] through all this that if you didn't come
[01:15:34.520] out with this that we would be stuck in
[01:15:36.719] the same sort of
[01:15:38.520] loop for a long long period of time and
[01:15:42.159] no one would ever have access to this
[01:15:43.840] stuff that they would continue yep yeah
[01:15:46.480] and that you nailed it on the head is
[01:15:49.120] you know I think my generation once it
[01:15:51.239] changed the under 40 generation their
[01:15:53.760] parents went to war their old Brothers
[01:15:55.320] went to war we're fighting two dangerous
[01:15:57.360] proxy wars right now which is
[01:16:00.040] extremely
[01:16:02.080] um stupid I know the better way of
[01:16:04.400] saying it be quite Frank and you I give
[01:16:06.120] you my own assessment on that if you
[01:16:07.360] want but I like we're in this loop we're
[01:16:10.760] not progressing in a healthy way uh as a
[01:16:15.360] civilization you know it's becoming more
[01:16:17.159] divisive whether you're on the left or
[01:16:18.560] the right you know people aren't even
[01:16:20.880] looking up all they care about is Tik
[01:16:22.360] Tok you know we're creating potentially
[01:16:25.080] dangerous artificial intelligence you
[01:16:27.360] know I even saw that in my government
[01:16:30.159] service and I think humanity is kind of
[01:16:33.440] stuck right now and we need to change
[01:16:35.120] and this subject is like one of the
[01:16:37.400] only
[01:16:39.880] unifying ontologically shocking but I
[01:16:42.520] would think generally unifying topics
[01:16:44.679] where where if announced by you know the
[01:16:48.360] Us and other you know major powers that
[01:16:51.120] have knowledge in a in a controlled
[01:16:52.760] manner that this could change Humanity
[01:16:54.320] for the better
[01:16:55.719] make us look inside ourselves become
[01:16:58.239] less divisive and Care maybe a little
[01:17:01.199] less about superficial things so uh so
[01:17:05.320] that's kind of my philosophical
[01:17:07.480] motivation uh to do what I did and uh
[01:17:11.159] and you're confronted with one of the
[01:17:12.440] biggest mysteries in in human history
[01:17:15.480] yeah which is are we alone and it seems
[01:17:18.480] like at least some people have the
[01:17:20.679] answer to that 100% I mean the people I
[01:17:23.480] talked to certainly did and they had
[01:17:25.239] close personal knowledge and the Intel
[01:17:27.800] reports I read you know literally
[01:17:31.080] indicated that as well like I talked
[01:17:32.480] about
[01:17:33.280] earlier uh and it just so it's like this
[01:17:36.080] cast system I call it dudes with seci
[01:17:38.840] clearances do not have an embargo on
[01:17:42.000] reality so it's a cast system of you
[01:17:45.760] know people in government and outside of
[01:17:47.239] government in the industrial complex
[01:17:49.520] that run this stuff under little
[01:17:51.840] oversight and you know I remember some
[01:17:54.000] of the people who denied access they
[01:17:55.600] were like you know you know I don't know
[01:17:57.280] what you're talking about but if I did
[01:18:00.000] why would you have a need to know and
[01:18:01.639] I'm like well why did you have a need to
[01:18:03.040] know you're just some multistar
[01:18:07.000] general right you're a human being
[01:18:08.960] you're a human being you're not better
[01:18:10.400] than me I mean who determines need to
[01:18:13.320] know on a humanistic
[01:18:16.320] question um it's like basic fact of life
[01:18:20.280] why do you why are we classifying fact
[01:18:22.159] of life uh at this day and age in 23
[01:18:25.320] it's insane and the answer to that would
[01:18:28.719] be National Security yeah it's obtuse
[01:18:32.239] National Security right so like why we
[01:18:35.040] classify stuff it's called executive
[01:18:36.960] order
[01:18:38.199] 13526 right
[01:18:40.159] section 1.4 sections E and F are why we
[01:18:44.280] classify science stuff why we classify
[01:18:46.320] nuclear stuff it's like a oneliner it's
[01:18:48.320] very vague and and you saying this is
[01:18:53.000] these basic facts should be classif ifed
[01:18:55.760] are you saying that this fits in this
[01:18:57.320] bill and you know and and you notice the
[01:18:59.960] Schumer Amendment if anybody reads it
[01:19:02.800] awkwardly calls out the atomic energy
[01:19:04.600] act in 1954 right and they're basically
[01:19:08.920] treating this as nuclear secrets because
[01:19:12.920] it gives
[01:19:14.199] off you know nuclear radiation because
[01:19:17.080] if you look at the ultra vague
[01:19:20.440] definition of special nuclear material
[01:19:22.880] which is section 51 the atomic energy
[01:19:25.360] act in 1954 it says anything that gives
[01:19:28.080] off a sizable amount of atomic energy
[01:19:30.639] literally that's what it says well
[01:19:33.080] what's sizable and what legal gymnastics
[01:19:36.400] are you saying this stuff which is
[01:19:38.840] obviously not a well who knows maybe it
[01:19:41.440] is nuclear weapon and you're saying this
[01:19:44.040] is a US nuclear secret you're trans
[01:19:46.000] classifying it into a nuclear secret
[01:19:49.960] which I understand maybe at first why
[01:19:53.679] they did that and not admonishing the
[01:19:55.760] hard decisions that presidents and other
[01:19:58.239] folks did many years ago when this was
[01:20:00.960] more of an enigma and we wanted to like
[01:20:02.679] lock it down figure it out and then see
[01:20:05.040] what we're going to do but there's never
[01:20:07.320] been a disclosure plan I always ask that
[01:20:09.719] like to these super senior people I've
[01:20:11.320] talked to was there a plan any kind of
[01:20:14.000] plan at all and they're like no never we
[01:20:17.560] tried the muddy to Waters back in there
[01:20:21.000] you know tried to put it out there and
[01:20:22.960] test the populace but
[01:20:25.520] um you know there was never any cachent
[01:20:27.679] plan I mean people think the government
[01:20:30.120] is like this fine oiled machine they
[01:20:31.960] have plans for everything well I guess
[01:20:33.920] sort of but like it's not I mean look at
[01:20:37.040] the war on terrorism we left uh
[01:20:39.199] Afghanistan no General officer Mattis
[01:20:41.800] Petraeus uh mistal I call them the
[01:20:44.080] failed generals people loud them but
[01:20:46.920] really themselves and the Obama
[01:20:49.080] Administration Bush Administration ex
[01:20:50.920] you know Trump whatever um nobody had a
[01:20:53.679] cogent plan for success and we were
[01:20:57.199] fighting people who are much less of an
[01:21:00.280] adversary than like our one of our peers
[01:21:01.960] or de peers and we couldn't even win
[01:21:03.440] that war like what the [ __ ] are we doing
[01:21:06.320] but these protracted endless
[01:21:08.239] Wars let's be real it's good for the
[01:21:10.400] industrial complex right so and and I'm
[01:21:13.120] not like admonishing the whole
[01:21:14.320] industrial complex for the record you
[01:21:17.120] know we need National lethality we need
[01:21:19.280] weapons to kill bad guys because there's
[01:21:21.080] evil people in the world but you got to
[01:21:24.040] control
[01:21:25.639] you know some of it though well that's a
[01:21:27.320] part of the problem with people that
[01:21:29.199] have secrets it's like once you have
[01:21:31.560] secrets and part of your identity is the
[01:21:34.520] holder of those secrets and part of the
[01:21:37.120] culture of
[01:21:39.360] these these industries is that they they
[01:21:42.960] are the ones that have the access to
[01:21:44.639] that yeah and I saw that in conventional
[01:21:48.080] really black programs I was a part of in
[01:21:50.719] my career it was almost like um you got
[01:21:54.080] that secret Society Vibe where it's like
[01:21:56.880] if you're a career government
[01:21:58.760] servant uh your salary is not that great
[01:22:01.600] but knowledge is your currency and what
[01:22:04.480] makes you special what rice bow do you
[01:22:06.639] control and I remember getting read into
[01:22:08.760] some stuff that like it was like the
[01:22:10.040] president and very limited number of
[01:22:12.360] people getting read into and I was one
[01:22:13.719] of them because I was operating a
[01:22:15.239] certain thing for a certain op and oh
[01:22:19.040] you're part of the club you know like
[01:22:21.320] only 30 people are cleared or whatever
[01:22:23.560] and I'm like
[01:22:25.239] the f I don't get off on this [ __ ] it's
[01:22:27.840] so weird but like these like lifers and
[01:22:30.480] I I hate to you know talk so matter of
[01:22:33.360] fact about it but like it just it's kind
[01:22:35.520] of disgusting to me because it's like
[01:22:37.159] this like uh it's weird it's just like a
[01:22:39.360] weird like nostic cultish thing and you
[01:22:42.760] know I Liv that Community for 14 years
[01:22:45.199] of my career and people really do enjoy
[01:22:47.360] having information that other people
[01:22:48.679] don't have access to I was like I got a
[01:22:50.400] secret and like that's why I whistleblow
[01:22:53.560] okay so I know this it's real I know
[01:22:55.520] they we're not alone we have stuff no
[01:22:58.480] [ __ ] am I going to sit on my ass for 30
[01:23:01.880] 40 years I'm an old man I look back like
[01:23:04.320] ah I had that secret I knew about it but
[01:23:06.719] I didn't do anything I didn't CH so I
[01:23:10.520] couldn't just keep that secret because I
[01:23:13.199] thought it was just perverse and wrong
[01:23:16.560] that the people don't even at least get
[01:23:18.280] to know the basics it's insane so when
[01:23:21.280] it comes to these I'm going to bring it
[01:23:23.320] back to these these actual entities yeah
[01:23:26.440] do we know or we do have an
[01:23:28.600] understanding of how many of them we're
[01:23:30.400] talking about and the variety of them
[01:23:33.480] well yeah there is a variety and we have
[01:23:35.639] a certain number of of different things
[01:23:39.639] um but the like total numbers of like
[01:23:42.960] what's interacting with us on Earth I
[01:23:44.440] mean nobody knows that and I mean but
[01:23:46.560] there's an understanding of some that
[01:23:48.120] they do believe are interacting with us
[01:23:50.159] and there's a variety in terms of
[01:23:51.840] there's there's variables yeah I I
[01:23:53.520] talked to people who are familiar with
[01:23:55.679] uh the biological analysis and
[01:23:57.239] everything so we have some idea not a
[01:24:00.520] complete picture because it's like you
[01:24:02.840] know you know you're looking at it it's
[01:24:05.440] like well I don't even understand the
[01:24:07.159] physio physiology at all it's like what
[01:24:09.440] the heck it's like way different right
[01:24:11.040] so um we have at least description of
[01:24:13.600] this
[01:24:14.560] physiology yeah no I was in I was in the
[01:24:17.880] room
[01:24:19.880] when
[01:24:22.560] uh I got be careful I don't want to uh I
[01:24:26.199] was in Washington DC with a very uh
[01:24:28.480] number of senior people that work for
[01:24:31.239] members of Congress put it that
[01:24:33.320] way um when I was still in government
[01:24:36.840] and I brought the people who worked on
[01:24:39.560] that stuff to the hill I mean this is
[01:24:42.119] why the members were so confident to put
[01:24:45.320] out the Schumer Amendment and stuff and
[01:24:47.679] and I was like please explain and um
[01:24:51.880] they went into all those details and
[01:24:53.480] stuff and I remember you know some some
[01:24:56.560] of the professional staff members were
[01:24:58.880] like whoa like like they were like in
[01:25:01.000] g-lock right because I mean it like a
[01:25:02.760] total World
[01:25:04.639] bubble um got burst right there for a
[01:25:07.760] lot of people and so we we have some
[01:25:10.600] idea it's not a complete picture I mean
[01:25:12.440] it's just like but you're not even
[01:25:14.000] bringing in the right the right people
[01:25:15.520] like I think about my friend and
[01:25:17.679] colleague uh Dr Gary Nolan which I
[01:25:19.960] started the um Soul Foundation nonprofit
[01:25:23.520] with I mean he's like
[01:25:25.119] you know Nobel level biologist
[01:25:27.760] virologist like he's the guy that you
[01:25:29.960] would want on it but he's not on it so I
[01:25:33.520] think we can make a lot of progress in
[01:25:34.960] our understanding once again if if this
[01:25:36.800] is more broadly studied um in an open
[01:25:42.119] environment you aware of the Nix and
[01:25:44.639] Jackie gleon story vaguely uh I I stayed
[01:25:49.199] away from euphology because I had these
[01:25:51.199] contemporary people that were inside I
[01:25:53.560] could check all their credentials where
[01:25:55.679] they worked
[01:25:57.360] Etc um but I I'm Vaguely Familiar where
[01:26:00.840] what was it like Nixon brought Jackie
[01:26:02.560] gleon to some facility and showed him
[01:26:05.239] some stuff or something like that yeah
[01:26:06.679] supposedly that's the story and it's
[01:26:08.159] very it's very hard to determine the
[01:26:09.960] origin of the story or whether or not
[01:26:11.520] it's real it came from there's a story
[01:26:13.639] about one article that was supposedly
[01:26:15.840] published was it Vanity Fair something
[01:26:17.400] like that and uh you can't find the
[01:26:20.360] story but Jackie gleon by all accounts
[01:26:24.960] was obsessed with UFOs and uh even built
[01:26:28.520] a home in Upstate New York that looked
[01:26:30.920] like a flying saucer oh really yeah this
[01:26:34.040] this is the house he had this house
[01:26:36.360] constructed supposedly after he had this
[01:26:39.880] uh meeting with uh Nixon so Nixon
[01:26:43.119] supposedly they were
[01:26:44.520] drinking Jackie gleon and ni Nixon are
[01:26:47.199] tying one on and Nixon's like you want
[01:26:49.440] to see some [ __ ] and uh they fly uh to
[01:26:53.800] wherever this base is and he shows them
[01:26:56.639] these Frozen biological entities and
[01:26:59.840] this retrieved vehicle and then Jackie
[01:27:03.360] gleon becomes a fanatic obviously that's
[01:27:06.040] crazy yeah I I mean not crazy but but uh
[01:27:08.880] that's interesting that a president
[01:27:10.360] would do that to like an uncleared
[01:27:13.400] celebrity friend of his like oh let me
[01:27:15.159] just show you the most sensitive [ __ ]
[01:27:16.320] our country has just I don't know it's
[01:27:18.040] kind of crazy to me people are obsessed
[01:27:20.480] with celebrity you know there's even
[01:27:22.719] world leaders you know
[01:27:24.679] kings and queens of you know they've
[01:27:27.000] always been obsessed with famous people
[01:27:29.159] and Jackie gleon at the time was
[01:27:30.800] incredibly famous and also beloved right
[01:27:33.320] yeah so this is my pal and uh I'm
[01:27:37.800] drunk you want to see some [ __ ] you know
[01:27:40.560] I get it I want to hang out with Nixon
[01:27:42.159] if that's how he was like mans is
[01:27:44.520] probably wild I bet he was like that in
[01:27:46.880] a lot of ways you know I mean Hunters
[01:27:48.760] Thompson famously recalled his uh yeah
[01:27:51.800] there's the two of them meeting together
[01:27:53.880] uh famously called uh sitting in the
[01:27:56.199] backseat of a limo with Nixon talking
[01:27:58.159] about football and he was like God if I
[01:28:00.159] didn't think he was a piece of [ __ ] I
[01:28:01.520] actually kind of like them oh that's
[01:28:02.840] funny we're just talking football yeah
[01:28:05.560] you know um look nobody in that job
[01:28:09.280] nobody as a president is going to be
[01:28:10.679] loved by everyone and I'm sure Nixon has
[01:28:12.800] positive qualities and you know if
[01:28:14.320] Jackie gleon liked him I'm a giant
[01:28:16.320] Jackie gleon fan he's probably probably
[01:28:18.719] fun to hang out with yeah and if you're
[01:28:21.119] drunk and you know you're the president
[01:28:23.400] and also so we're talking about the
[01:28:26.040] 1970s right so this is a different world
[01:28:29.119] you know like even if you tell anybody
[01:28:31.520] who the [ __ ] going to believe you you
[01:28:32.920] don't have you can't get on Tik Tok like
[01:28:34.560] what are you gonna do how you gonna get
[01:28:36.080] this information out well exactly and
[01:28:37.679] that's kind of how you know my personal
[01:28:40.520] opinion you know how the program was
[01:28:42.239] protected right make make it crazy right
[01:28:45.040] so if anybody leaks anything um or you
[01:28:48.440] know has unauthorized disclosure yeah
[01:28:51.239] people are going to think you're [ __ ]
[01:28:52.040] nuts of course yeah yeah um but there
[01:28:56.600] are actual reports that we have
[01:29:00.800] biological
[01:29:03.320] remains yes oh yes yes how
[01:29:06.840] many it's up there uh as well just like
[01:29:09.920] with the they vary there's different
[01:29:12.800] kinds do we have an understanding you
[01:29:16.520] don't have to answer where of where they
[01:29:18.880] came
[01:29:20.320] from nobody I talked to exposed any
[01:29:23.280] specific origin to me we may know that
[01:29:26.239] but I'm not aware of anything so I don't
[01:29:28.760] know are there reports of some kind of
[01:29:32.679] interaction with these things where
[01:29:35.360] they're giving information or discussing
[01:29:39.199] the the problems of humanity and
[01:29:41.239] possible solutions or explaining why
[01:29:44.400] they're
[01:29:45.320] here interactions was a sensitive
[01:29:48.199] subject that
[01:29:50.280] my uh interview subjects did not want to
[01:29:52.920] get into
[01:29:54.679] uh I suppose that there's probably
[01:29:57.480] detailed documentation of those
[01:29:58.880] interactions that goes into a lot of the
[01:30:00.360] stuff you're asking I truly don't even
[01:30:02.360] know the answer to a lot of that so but
[01:30:05.080] is there discussions amongst these
[01:30:07.360] people that there have been these sort
[01:30:10.080] of there was water cooler talk with some
[01:30:13.320] people I talked to on the program I love
[01:30:15.320] water cooler talk yeah they're like hey
[01:30:16.719] bro guess what I overheard in some weird
[01:30:18.760] meeting you know right and but that is
[01:30:21.560] the problem with that is it's like
[01:30:22.760] secondary information
[01:30:25.360] anet
[01:30:29.920] unless it like cool well you're coming
[01:30:32.760] to the Inspector General or I'm going to
[01:30:34.520] at least give them your name uh because
[01:30:36.440] that's what you told me and then
[01:30:37.800] obviously I did that so those people who
[01:30:40.800] physically were there were on the
[01:30:42.600] program did the thing I brought to the
[01:30:45.360] Inspector General um is are there
[01:30:48.199] discussions of interactions with live
[01:30:51.960] beings uh there was some water cooler
[01:30:54.440] talk about that kind of thing but but
[01:30:56.480] you know I I don't even want to get into
[01:30:57.880] it because it's like uh there were some
[01:30:59.960] details provided to me but it's like
[01:31:01.480] it's secondary and I I don't know if
[01:31:03.840] that's like the telephone game and I
[01:31:07.280] don't know if it was hyperbolized in any
[01:31:09.360] way um you know in the break room so to
[01:31:12.320] speak so I just I'm so anal about making
[01:31:14.760] sure what I say is accurate I don't you
[01:31:16.760] know I don't know so yeah do we have an
[01:31:19.920] understand I mean if if there have been
[01:31:21.880] these discussions do we have
[01:31:24.239] understanding of when they first took
[01:31:26.679] place yeah some specific events were
[01:31:29.440] mentioned to me and I provided that
[01:31:31.639] information in a classified setting yeah
[01:31:33.800] and how far back did they
[01:31:35.480] go pretty far back it's pretty weird
[01:31:38.360] yeah so well one of the stories from
[01:31:40.320] Roswell that's fascinating to me is that
[01:31:42.840] Eisenhower had the wreckage flown to
[01:31:45.600] rright Patterson Air Force Base in two
[01:31:48.080] separate jets in case one of them
[01:31:51.000] crashed there has been some public
[01:31:53.239] testimony
[01:31:55.360] um so General debose there were some
[01:31:58.679] oldtimers that at least uh you know did
[01:32:02.719] some videos in like the 90s like I'm I'm
[01:32:05.480] briger General Exxon here's what I heard
[01:32:09.560] whatever I mean that's out there in the
[01:32:11.360] the open source so yeah yeah and there
[01:32:14.159] was always that discussion of Hangar
[01:32:16.480] 18 right you ever heard Hanger 18
[01:32:19.320] there's a lot of hangers but that's the
[01:32:21.000] what for whatever reason I think it was
[01:32:22.360] maybe a movie was there a movie well you
[01:32:24.360] know you know what's funny speaking of
[01:32:26.159] uh Senators being denied there's a video
[01:32:29.560] in the late 80s of Senator Barry
[01:32:31.560] Goldwater of Goldwater nickol act famed
[01:32:34.239] right he was a two star general in the
[01:32:36.719] Air Force Reserve and uh like literally
[01:32:39.239] this video is like on YouTube it's like
[01:32:40.600] hard to find though but um uh Jesse
[01:32:42.760] Michaels on American Alchemy put
[01:32:45.280] together I think a short video yesterday
[01:32:47.000] and there's like a section in there
[01:32:48.239] where he actually has that Goldwater
[01:32:50.520] interview but General Goldwater is like
[01:32:53.119] yeah one day I called Curtis lame who's
[01:32:55.560] a very famous Air Force General and was
[01:32:57.560] like General I heard that there's this
[01:32:59.480] room that you you know have UFO material
[01:33:02.199] and uh Barry Goldwater exposes in this
[01:33:05.040] interview like yeah and lame got matter
[01:33:07.560] matter than hell at me and told me never
[01:33:10.400] to [ __ ] ask ask about that again I
[01:33:12.400] might have added the f word in there
[01:33:13.840] just for um for fun for fun but uh yeah
[01:33:17.520] it's bad was in the military too long um
[01:33:20.840] my wife tells me to be careful with my
[01:33:22.400] language all the time around my
[01:33:25.119] nephew but but even Barry Goldwater knew
[01:33:29.320] that we had UFO material he asked
[01:33:32.199] General lame when he was in the Air
[01:33:34.080] Force and general lame basically told
[01:33:35.760] him to [ __ ] off and that is a literal
[01:33:37.880] interview you can Google so a lot of
[01:33:40.760] this like
[01:33:42.800] people um disclosing fact of has really
[01:33:45.800] been out in the vernacular for a long
[01:33:48.040] time but nobody really cared cuz well
[01:33:51.880] everybody was just kind of like
[01:33:53.080] desensitized from the whole subject and
[01:33:54.840] thought it was wacky and I'm not the
[01:33:56.800] first former government official to
[01:33:59.159] confirm that you have Goldwater and all
[01:34:01.280] all these other Harry Reid who made the
[01:34:04.000] same disclosure to the New Yorker a
[01:34:05.960] month after I talked to him in personel
[01:34:08.560] yeah melon has said stuff uh Lou alzando
[01:34:12.119] said uh you know he believes we have
[01:34:14.400] material on I think it was Tucker
[01:34:16.040] Carlson a couple years ago um so there's
[01:34:20.239] certainly been other officials now I'm
[01:34:22.360] just trying to spike the football and
[01:34:25.880] take it all the way to the end zone here
[01:34:27.600] and and luckily we have a congress
[01:34:29.679] that's mostly motivated minus Mike
[01:34:32.080] Rogers and Mike Turner you're on you're
[01:34:33.960] getting cool in your stockings I'm gonna
[01:34:35.760] make sure your office gets cool and
[01:34:39.159] um uh you know they they want change too
[01:34:42.440] and they realize it's time for a change
[01:34:44.400] and uh presumably you know Chuck
[01:34:46.960] Schumer's talked to you know Jake
[01:34:49.520] Sullivan and president uh Biden and you
[01:34:51.719] know who's in the white house right now
[01:34:53.440] is John
[01:34:55.320] podesta he is the uh green energies are
[01:34:58.639] or something like that in the white
[01:35:00.280] house but you know John
[01:35:02.040] podesta uh um shout out to John podesta
[01:35:05.400] in the white house he has an ax to grind
[01:35:08.080] on this issue too because remember he
[01:35:09.960] tweeted at the end of Obama's second
[01:35:12.280] term you know my biggest failure was not
[01:35:14.320] to have
[01:35:16.080] Obama release the UFO file and made the
[01:35:18.840] same kind of statement with Clinton so
[01:35:21.880] certainly if Mr pesta is listening and
[01:35:23.719] the White House you know I'm here to
[01:35:25.080] help I you know I hope that you're
[01:35:27.000] championing this within the Executive
[01:35:28.960] Office of the President and um you know
[01:35:32.639] the other speaking of people like
[01:35:35.119] Goldwater who who've made some weird non
[01:35:37.400] Seer kind of admissions there's
[01:35:39.719] a John stasel interview of Mike Pompeo
[01:35:43.480] the former CIA
[01:35:45.080] director about two years ago or so you
[01:35:47.920] can find it online where Pompeo talks
[01:35:50.400] about the JFK file and like dismisses it
[01:35:52.960] or something about like there's no
[01:35:53.960] Boogeyman here but then he he quickly
[01:35:57.960] says oh I've seen the UFO file to and we
[01:36:02.600] have bigger problems but for at least
[01:36:05.960] the way it was edited John stel didn't
[01:36:07.840] even follow up uh at least the way the
[01:36:10.320] Final Cut was I'm like dude if I was
[01:36:11.920] John stel i' been like what does that
[01:36:13.480] mean what do you mean Mike Pompeo you've
[01:36:15.239] seen the UFO file and we have bigger
[01:36:18.440] problems and UFO file the way I
[01:36:20.840] interpret that is a uh long
[01:36:25.280] existing file or briefing document or
[01:36:27.719] something that he had access to so I
[01:36:30.520] think I think the former CIA director
[01:36:32.280] Mike Pompeo should probably clarify what
[01:36:34.199] he said two years ago next uh if anybody
[01:36:37.080] interviews him next ask Mike that
[01:36:39.600] question what did he mean yeah yeah we
[01:36:42.320] have bigger problems well we certainly
[01:36:43.560] have bigger problems in terms of our
[01:36:45.639] current existence specifically with what
[01:36:48.040] you were talking about earli the proxy
[01:36:49.440] wars and collapse of society as we know
[01:36:52.560] it which it seems
[01:36:54.199] yeah I mean the I mean I feel for the
[01:36:56.719] Ukrainian and the Israeli people you
[01:36:58.800] know I'm not taking any particular side
[01:37:00.960] uh but
[01:37:02.040] certainly people forget us Aid in these
[01:37:04.679] wars what's the like most expensive
[01:37:06.960] thing if you studied phases of conflict
[01:37:09.760] it's the Reconstruction cost after the
[01:37:11.600] conflict so are we in it for
[01:37:13.840] like triple digit billions like the war
[01:37:16.560] and Terror um I mean certainly the
[01:37:20.280] Israeli conflict is a great distraction
[01:37:22.400] because you know like Russia is very
[01:37:24.440] tight with Iran right and personal
[01:37:27.080] opinion you know this just my own
[01:37:28.560] personal opinion but I you know I'm sure
[01:37:30.119] they commiserated and was like can you
[01:37:32.400] start a two-front war because we would
[01:37:34.440] like to win in Ukraine and uh this will
[01:37:37.840] distract the us because Israel is a
[01:37:40.119] longtime you know Middle East Ally so
[01:37:44.080] it's brilliant it's brilliant public
[01:37:45.639] opinion I mean the the The Virtue
[01:37:48.480] signalers on social media have
[01:37:50.639] essentially completely forgotten about
[01:37:52.440] Ukraine you it's it's all about Israel
[01:37:55.239] and Palestine yeah you don't even see it
[01:37:57.560] and um and I understand you know what
[01:38:00.080] the National Security Council
[01:38:01.480] determination was that they've discussed
[01:38:03.080] publicly where there's kind of like
[01:38:04.199] trying to drain the Russia's you know
[01:38:06.719] military capability
[01:38:09.239] and annexation of Ukrainian territory
[01:38:12.880] because they don't want Russia spheres
[01:38:15.320] sphere of influence to further enter
[01:38:17.800] that caucus region and stuff but yeah
[01:38:20.400] it's funny like you said it's like you
[01:38:21.760] don't even talk about Ukraine it's all
[01:38:23.239] about Israel now and the which is a
[01:38:25.719] horrible conflict on both sides like
[01:38:27.599] it's just it's unfortunate so without a
[01:38:31.080] doubt yeah um it's that was a very
[01:38:33.880] interesting statement though that we
[01:38:35.080] have bigger problems so even if we do
[01:38:38.280] this seems to be like a
[01:38:41.040] a this is such a human question because
[01:38:44.760] it's one of the biggest mysteries
[01:38:47.239] obviously you know there's the fmy
[01:38:48.960] Paradox where are they right if you you
[01:38:51.040] look out and if you look out into the
[01:38:52.440] cosmos you've ever gone a clear night
[01:38:54.560] and you look out and you realize those
[01:38:55.639] are all stars and those stars are all
[01:38:58.080] surrounded by planets and there's
[01:39:00.960] literally hundreds of billions of them
[01:39:03.760] the Drake equation you can calculate
[01:39:05.679] what probable sentient life and I've
[01:39:08.880] been an amateur astronomer since I've
[01:39:10.280] been a kid and I've
[01:39:11.679] never uh crazy enough I've never seen
[01:39:14.400] anything remarkable I've seen some stuff
[01:39:17.119] that could have been ball lightning and
[01:39:19.480] some satellite passes that weren't
[01:39:22.000] registered uh on line um when you can
[01:39:25.159] you could actually check to see if
[01:39:26.199] there's going to be like an aridium
[01:39:27.119] flare or something like that and that
[01:39:29.119] maybe that was a satellite pass maybe
[01:39:30.760] not but I've never seen in my personal
[01:39:33.599] life never seen anything weird uh and
[01:39:37.199] it's funny you mentioned the fmy Paradox
[01:39:39.000] and it's like well where are they and
[01:39:42.040] okay well you know if you're sentient
[01:39:44.080] life you're certainly going to have
[01:39:46.599] sophisticated cover concealment and
[01:39:48.520] deception techniques it goes back to
[01:39:50.199] like what jacqu Val's work is where you
[01:39:52.920] know the phenomenon presenting itself in
[01:39:54.639] different ways but also I live in the
[01:39:57.199] mountains of Colorado right so there is
[01:39:59.400] a mountain lion Den about 10 miles from
[01:40:01.480] my house uh in Colorado literally um you
[01:40:05.719] know I am there are lower predatory
[01:40:08.159] sentients I'm higher PR predatory
[01:40:10.199] sentience and I'm using this as a device
[01:40:12.040] or an analogy for nhi and
[01:40:15.560] us well I don't on a day-to-day basis I
[01:40:19.199] don't care what a mountain line is doing
[01:40:22.000] I may hike in that area area to
[01:40:24.560] explore but dayto day I'm afraid of it
[01:40:28.520] and I don't care and think about what
[01:40:31.119] humans might be unfortunately to some of
[01:40:33.880] these higher sentients where this monkey
[01:40:36.440] has a nuke holy [ __ ] keep them in the
[01:40:38.800] cage we don't want to go anywhere near
[01:40:40.719] them and so people think that there
[01:40:42.880] would be some kind of open contact with
[01:40:46.239] some higher sentient it is either
[01:40:48.119] visiting Earth or From Another Dimension
[01:40:50.800] or whatever the origin is but they
[01:40:53.639] probably don't
[01:40:54.920] care they're probably neutral at best
[01:40:57.560] and maybe actually fearful of us in some
[01:41:00.000] sense or were the progyny of you know
[01:41:03.639] personal opinion progyny of some
[01:41:06.159] experiment in the it's almost like
[01:41:08.880] living in the Matrix but it's not like
[01:41:10.440] an actual simulation it's like we want
[01:41:12.040] the simulation to go we don't want to
[01:41:15.719] intercede because we want to see what
[01:41:17.639] you know Homo sapiens sapien 2.0 is
[01:41:20.440] going to do after the great flood or
[01:41:22.000] something like that right yeah yeah
[01:41:24.280] that's one of the more fascinating uh
[01:41:26.480] ideas is that we're some sort of a
[01:41:28.360] product of genetic engineering I
[01:41:31.560] honestly would not be
[01:41:33.119] surprised I don't know that to be true
[01:41:35.760] but we're so different than everything
[01:41:37.320] else is here so different so beyond
[01:41:40.239] different I mean there's not another
[01:41:41.840] primate that is even reasonably close I
[01:41:44.760] mean if you you there's um speculation
[01:41:48.400] amongst primatologists and there's a not
[01:41:52.239] even speculation they believe that
[01:41:54.800] chimpanzees in particular have entered
[01:41:56.840] into the Stone Age so that they're at
[01:41:59.239] the beginning of the Stone Age they're
[01:42:00.679] using tools you know and there's
[01:42:03.119] obviously some learn Behavior like
[01:42:04.880] there's some footage of orangutans using
[01:42:07.679] Spears to hunt fish with oh interesting
[01:42:10.800] yeah have you ever seen that no I'm not
[01:42:12.239] it's cool as [ __ ] there's a Rutan that's
[01:42:14.639] hanging on a branch over a river or a
[01:42:18.599] body of water and he's stabbing at fish
[01:42:22.080] with a spear huh which is incredible I
[01:42:24.920] mean they're using tools I mean we know
[01:42:26.760] they use tools to extract um um you know
[01:42:30.239] termites and the like look at that I
[01:42:32.280] mean oh that's crazy how crazy is that I
[01:42:34.480] mean he's clearly hunting MH I mean he's
[01:42:37.159] going fishing in Borneo I mean that that
[01:42:41.520] is you know at the very least a distant
[01:42:46.440] cousin of us some you know intelligent
[01:42:50.520] primate that is figur out a way to use
[01:42:52.719] tools how long would it take an
[01:42:55.080] orangutan to become a human being how
[01:42:57.840] many millions of years are we talking
[01:42:59.159] about of evolution but it seems to be
[01:43:00.719] that process has started interesting but
[01:43:02.760] why are we so [ __ ] different than
[01:43:04.719] everything else yeah like are we a
[01:43:06.239] product of darwinian evolution or what
[01:43:08.000] is it punctuated equilibrium is
[01:43:09.760] obviously another theory and I'm not a
[01:43:11.400] anthropologist by any means you know
[01:43:13.280] watched some Netflix episodes but yeah
[01:43:16.040] me too lot of YouTube but yeah we we
[01:43:18.480] seem to be oddly advanced advanced and
[01:43:23.639] we seem to just possess other skills I
[01:43:25.760] mean it goes back to like the Stargate
[01:43:28.599] program right you know with the
[01:43:30.239] Declassified by Clinton and sensibly
[01:43:32.679] canceled I guess in
[01:43:34.159] 96 you know where you had people trained
[01:43:36.400] in remote viewing and and like there was
[01:43:39.280] feedback loops to confirm what they saw
[01:43:41.159] was real and um you either satellite
[01:43:43.280] imagery or human sources where they
[01:43:45.199] sketched out a room of where there's
[01:43:46.760] hostages and the they got a hostage out
[01:43:49.280] and they're like and this is a real
[01:43:50.239] story actually and they're and they're
[01:43:52.679] like did you have a source in that room
[01:43:54.360] how do you know where all the corridors
[01:43:55.840] were and everything I was like no
[01:43:57.199] actually uh Pat price uh remote viewed
[01:44:00.320] you and he like what the [ __ ] so there's
[01:44:03.159] something going on there and and that's
[01:44:04.960] like uh Gary Nolan you know has studied
[01:44:07.440] a lot of this stuff very famously he's
[01:44:10.480] pointed out the cod8 panum in the brain
[01:44:13.280] right it's this horseshoe shaped thing
[01:44:15.040] in the middle of your brain that if uh
[01:44:17.840] he's done MRIs and CAT scans and I'm
[01:44:19.599] hope I'm not butchering his work Gary
[01:44:21.520] might you know slap me later
[01:44:24.400] but uh it lights up people who have
[01:44:27.520] those kind of skills they have like an
[01:44:30.080] overactive CTI panum in the brain and
[01:44:32.639] it's like okay well is it a transceiver
[01:44:35.119] of some sort I'm guessing that's the
[01:44:36.560] case is it an emerging property of human
[01:44:39.520] beings as we have all exactly and we're
[01:44:41.000] seeing just a few human beings that have
[01:44:42.960] this stuff and then if if it is a
[01:44:46.440] transceiver where's the information is
[01:44:48.760] it in a higher spatial Dimension or how
[01:44:51.040] are they extracting how are they able to
[01:44:53.440] basically
[01:44:54.880] be um uh non-locality right they're able
[01:44:58.320] to like project themselves somehow their
[01:45:01.679] Consciousness to a and this is a
[01:45:04.320] Declassified example from Stargate a
[01:45:06.520] Russian missile
[01:45:08.000] base sketch the crane and the where the
[01:45:10.800] silos are what the status is you know
[01:45:14.440] satellite comes over takes a picture and
[01:45:15.960] it's exactly the way they sketched it
[01:45:17.920] how' they do that like it's certainly
[01:45:20.599] real real because there is a feedback
[01:45:23.719] loop now there's a lot of charlatans in
[01:45:25.639] the psychic space and all that but like
[01:45:27.239] at least that government program and
[01:45:28.679] I've talked to you know HOV and people
[01:45:31.560] who actually ran that program at SRI for
[01:45:34.719] the CIA then Dia in the Army and that
[01:45:38.360] seems to men who's uh staring at Goats
[01:45:41.080] right the George Clooney movies the
[01:45:42.560] famous movie based on the Stargate
[01:45:44.960] program seems to be legit as far as we
[01:45:48.560] can measure from a feedback perspective
[01:45:50.560] what was the explanation for the
[01:45:52.239] discontinuation of that program oh gosh
[01:45:55.520] I'm not a scholar on that that something
[01:45:58.440] Russell tar or halav or one of those
[01:46:02.440] guys could explain if it was just like
[01:46:04.719] got caught up in the bureaucracy or or
[01:46:06.960] what I don't
[01:46:08.199] remember yeah yeah so the idea of that
[01:46:12.400] being an emergent property of uh of
[01:46:15.040] human beings as we evolve is always been
[01:46:17.199] fascinating to me because there's
[01:46:19.239] there's certainly something that goes on
[01:46:21.920] with human communication other than um
[01:46:25.159] we make sounds that represent objects
[01:46:27.520] and physical things and that the other
[01:46:30.360] person interprets those sounds and
[01:46:32.040] understands it there's communication
[01:46:34.480] between human beings that's oh acoustic
[01:46:36.440] communication like the symbol rate if
[01:46:38.480] you will is really slow like if you were
[01:46:41.440] able to consciously communicate you know
[01:46:43.679] AKA You Know The Hokey term like
[01:46:45.360] telepathy
[01:46:46.719] right um and it's funny because that's
[01:46:50.560] uh what a lot of people spouse that have
[01:46:53.840] had you know alleged contacts right a
[01:46:55.920] lot of the people that Dr John Mack at
[01:46:58.599] Harvard studied over the years where
[01:47:01.000] they felt like they were getting hit
[01:47:02.239] with like a QR code it was like instant
[01:47:04.719] knowledge or they heard like somebody
[01:47:08.920] speaking to them nonverbally in some way
[01:47:11.320] that they couldn't even conceptualize
[01:47:13.199] through you know acoustic communication
[01:47:15.400] uh or talk if you will and it's the same
[01:47:17.360] thing like um book Proof of Heaven by Dr
[01:47:20.960] eban Alexander MD I remember reading
[01:47:23.000] when I was in Afghanistan and I was like
[01:47:24.639] this is a crazy experience this medical
[01:47:26.360] doctor has necrotizing fat fasciitis of
[01:47:28.639] the brain is a near-death experience and
[01:47:31.599] he gets this like crazy like the
[01:47:34.040] feelings of love other stuff it's a
[01:47:35.639] really interesting book it's like a
[01:47:36.920] scientific take on a doctor's own
[01:47:39.000] near-death experience but when he came
[01:47:41.440] back and somehow the fasciitis didn't
[01:47:44.520] eat away his brain and he was
[01:47:46.400] cognitively normal he tried to write
[01:47:50.520] down what information or facts of the
[01:47:53.719] universe he learned during his nde and
[01:47:57.119] uh he couldn't even put it in English it
[01:47:58.679] was like crazy he didn't know how to
[01:48:00.280] translate it into our language it was
[01:48:03.320] just there was no like adjectives if you
[01:48:05.320] were adverbs Etc that could describe the
[01:48:08.800] knowledge that he knew like natively
[01:48:11.400] when he had that near-death experience
[01:48:13.119] it's a really fascinating book um and he
[01:48:15.719] talks about the disease he had and his
[01:48:18.000] uh physiological condition at the time
[01:48:19.719] really interesting what was he able to
[01:48:22.360] discern learn from that like what was
[01:48:24.360] what was the overall message yeah it was
[01:48:26.360] like this like the you know there's the
[01:48:27.960] message of Love which that's positive
[01:48:30.280] but it was like this interconnectedness
[01:48:32.239] everybody is kind of connected in a way
[01:48:36.040] that
[01:48:38.199] um they don't really realize I mean you
[01:48:41.000] think about this is get really trippy uh
[01:48:44.639] lot of thoughts with people who are
[01:48:45.800] smarter than me I like to talk to them
[01:48:47.639] about this kind of stuff where if you're
[01:48:50.560] say a m you know a higher dimensional
[01:48:52.800] sentience right the Act of Creation so
[01:48:55.080] Act of Creation for 3D beings is having
[01:48:57.360] a baby right it's producing another
[01:48:59.320] three-dimensional object well if you're
[01:49:01.920] in five-dimensional space or even I
[01:49:04.199] guess four-dimensional physical space
[01:49:06.040] what if Act of Creation is creating
[01:49:08.239] other conscious realities in other
[01:49:10.119] universes and the Act of Creation is
[01:49:13.400] creating the universe
[01:49:16.080] where you me Jamie whatever we might be
[01:49:20.800] connected to the same
[01:49:23.280] um I'll call it Universal Consciousness
[01:49:25.400] or a higher
[01:49:27.920] dimensional sentient life force or life
[01:49:31.239] form I know that sounds like really out
[01:49:32.960] there but when you think about it um
[01:49:36.040] there's a lot of other theologies out
[01:49:37.840] there that basically espouse that I have
[01:49:39.560] a very good friend of mine who's um PhD
[01:49:43.080] level kind of higher up in the Mormon
[01:49:44.480] church and basically the Mormon
[01:49:46.400] theology is kind of like that the
[01:49:48.320] Mormons say you were once with God or
[01:49:51.239] like God but then you were sent down to
[01:49:53.320] like a lower plane of existence and
[01:49:54.880] that's literally what I'm talking about
[01:49:56.679] right now but just in a secular
[01:49:59.080] sense so
[01:50:00.960] maybe uh yeah we're all created beings
[01:50:03.599] from and this you know this doesn't like
[01:50:05.239] hurt Christian theology whatever it's
[01:50:07.040] actually kind of enforcing the fact
[01:50:09.280] there's a Creator and we're literally
[01:50:11.360] created in the image of a Creator
[01:50:13.920] literally and that's kind of what life
[01:50:16.440] really is it's like think about it's
[01:50:18.800] like a weird 3D plus time temporal
[01:50:21.880] sensory EXP exp erience for a higher
[01:50:24.480] dimensional sentience you're here to
[01:50:27.080] experience time in this weird linear
[01:50:29.199] fashion and to
[01:50:31.480] experience yourself divorc from yourself
[01:50:35.360] to gain knowledge and to report back is
[01:50:38.719] maybe what life is and that's just kind
[01:50:40.159] of my own personal
[01:50:41.800] theology uh as a summation of just uh
[01:50:45.199] during Co I was really bored and that's
[01:50:47.840] what I was looking at well I I
[01:50:51.599] extrapolate that to the the creation of
[01:50:53.199] AI and I think if you think about human
[01:50:56.079] beings as something that creates things
[01:50:59.599] um I think ultimately we create a new
[01:51:01.920] life well exactly what if higher
[01:51:03.520] sentience is creating some kind of
[01:51:05.280] artificial intelligence you know call it
[01:51:07.199] like a commander data from Star Trek
[01:51:08.920] NextGen right MH not even really it's
[01:51:11.880] made in the image of the Creator in some
[01:51:13.560] sense but it's not even and that's what
[01:51:16.599] might get sent into these like uh long
[01:51:20.480] endurance you know missions and of
[01:51:22.400] course you know people are like well why
[01:51:23.719] would they you know come here so far uh
[01:51:27.920] to crash Etc or are they crashing on
[01:51:30.119] purpose do you know that for a fact or
[01:51:32.400] are they crashing by accident and what
[01:51:35.560] if they're like um like Von noyman
[01:51:38.599] replicating probes right you can Google
[01:51:40.880] that but you know what if they're just
[01:51:42.639] throwaway which vanum and pro probes are
[01:51:44.960] just like throwaway spacecraft like yeah
[01:51:46.920] they're just we send it out we don't
[01:51:48.920] really care what the mission success is
[01:51:51.079] or they're seeding us or as Jack valet
[01:51:54.239] says it's like you know here's the key
[01:51:56.800] can you unlock the cage kind of thing
[01:51:59.560] right yeah so and it seems that it would
[01:52:02.480] be a long I mean if you think about
[01:52:04.280] biological evolution so long lengthy
[01:52:07.320] process and if ultimately that led us to
[01:52:10.880] the creation of a technology that's far
[01:52:13.199] superior in terms of its capabilities of
[01:52:16.119] understanding and thinking that seems to
[01:52:18.320] be what's happening and that's one of
[01:52:20.320] the reasons why so many people are
[01:52:21.400] concerned about the term artificial
[01:52:24.040] intelligence is a very strange term
[01:52:25.679] because it's not artificial it's
[01:52:28.360] intelligence it's silicon based that a
[01:52:30.520] carbon based right yeah it's just it
[01:52:32.159] doesn't have Blood and Tissue and cells
[01:52:34.239] but it has something that's Superior it
[01:52:36.560] also has something that's much more
[01:52:37.800] scalable right we're we have a very
[01:52:41.320] obvious biological limitation in terms
[01:52:43.400] of evolution you know if you look at
[01:52:45.440] Evolution we turn back to the arang tans
[01:52:48.159] that are fishing they're obviously
[01:52:50.560] learning new things and those new
[01:52:53.239] properties from those these things we
[01:52:55.079] assume will be encoded in their genetics
[01:52:57.199] and in past to their children do you
[01:52:58.599] have children no I have three dogs we
[01:53:01.400] went the fluffy I'm a fluffy dad the
[01:53:04.400] problem is dogs don't learn from well
[01:53:06.000] they do but one of the most bizarre
[01:53:08.880] things about children is that they have
[01:53:11.159] properties that are clearly
[01:53:13.960] uh it's hard to say right um because my
[01:53:18.719] children obviously have the example of
[01:53:20.880] my wife and myself and they obviously
[01:53:23.800] see a lot of how we live our life and
[01:53:27.239] you know uh discipline and hard work and
[01:53:29.599] creativity and all those things but
[01:53:32.280] there's also they seem to have gifts
[01:53:35.480] that are they seem to be clearly genetic
[01:53:39.239] yeah and uh artistic gifts that just
[01:53:42.079] seem extraordinary that are unusual that
[01:53:44.360] I had when I was younger that I was an
[01:53:46.159] illustrator I have a a young daughter
[01:53:48.760] that's just extraordinarily good at art
[01:53:51.199] really you used to illustrate yeah yeah
[01:53:53.639] that's what I wanted to do I wanted to
[01:53:54.520] be a comic book illustrator oh
[01:53:56.000] interesting interesting yeah um but then
[01:53:59.440] I have this other daughter that's super
[01:54:01.719] gifted athletically like she can learn
[01:54:03.920] things really quickly it's extraordinary
[01:54:06.199] it's and it's weird and and also this
[01:54:08.920] drive that she has I had a drive from
[01:54:12.320] poverty and from you know a lot of like
[01:54:16.040] stuff that was wrong with my childhood
[01:54:17.880] that seemed to be I had this need to
[01:54:20.440] prove myself she doesn't have any of
[01:54:23.079] those problems but she also has this
[01:54:25.159] insane drive that it's weird it's a
[01:54:28.239] weird discipline it's extraordinary that
[01:54:30.679] seems to be very different than most
[01:54:33.000] kids and I I just think that's an
[01:54:35.760] emerging genetic I think there's
[01:54:37.480] something encoded in whatever you are as
[01:54:40.360] a human that as you replicate and as you
[01:54:42.719] have children they have that they have
[01:54:45.360] some of that yeah you know and I think
[01:54:49.960] that is this process this biological
[01:54:53.760] evolutionary process with humans but
[01:54:56.199] it's there's so much chaos there's so
[01:54:58.320] much I mean you could breed with a dumb
[01:55:00.079] person you can find a a hot dumb person
[01:55:02.760] and have a baby with them now your kids
[01:55:04.239] [ __ ] and then we see that like this
[01:55:06.599] obviously some people are just born with
[01:55:08.840] brains that just don't work that well
[01:55:10.639] it's just like I'm sure you've met some
[01:55:12.119] dull-minded people and you try to talk
[01:55:14.119] to them about things and there's no one
[01:55:16.119] there right so okay good luck and good
[01:55:19.719] luck with whatever children you have and
[01:55:21.560] whatever what what what are they going
[01:55:23.040] to have well gen yeah we're genetically
[01:55:25.320] encoding artificial intelligence now
[01:55:27.639] kind of I think that's where you were
[01:55:28.880] going yeah what I'm going with like
[01:55:30.400] these biological limitations that we
[01:55:32.360] have it's it's very clear that we're
[01:55:34.920] essentially dealing with a Model T as
[01:55:37.199] opposed to a Tesla which is just
[01:55:40.239] insanely Superior to these ancient
[01:55:42.639] Vehicles yeah we we create technology
[01:55:46.119] I've always said this if you looked at
[01:55:47.520] the human race if you were some sort of
[01:55:49.800] an outside Observer and you stumbled
[01:55:51.920] upon this this thing that occupies this
[01:55:54.480] planet this this apex predator of this
[01:55:56.440] planet he would say what is this thing
[01:55:58.199] doing well it's making technology all
[01:56:00.760] the other things that it does it does
[01:56:02.639] all these other things it do all but
[01:56:04.040] what do these things generally Mo
[01:56:07.239] motivate what do they move towards they
[01:56:09.520] move towards the advancement of
[01:56:11.320] technology and Innovation that is a
[01:56:14.239] constant aspect of human beings if you
[01:56:17.159] trace us back to the earliest
[01:56:18.800] civilizations to what we have today
[01:56:20.920] things constantly prove unless something
[01:56:23.159] goes horribly wrong unless there's some
[01:56:25.119] sort of a natural disaster or some sort
[01:56:27.360] of a you know genocide if something
[01:56:30.599] doesn't happen to these creatures what
[01:56:32.880] do they do they consistently make better
[01:56:35.360] things well that if you extrapolate if
[01:56:38.599] you follow that to its natural
[01:56:40.320] progression well what is that going to
[01:56:41.960] get to well once they've invented
[01:56:44.320] computers and once they've invented
[01:56:46.520] devices and once they've invented things
[01:56:48.639] that enhance their personal
[01:56:50.239] understanding of the world around them
[01:56:51.520] which we already have now with phones we
[01:56:53.159] already have with the internet we
[01:56:54.320] already have with our ability to
[01:56:55.239] communicate with each other we the the
[01:56:56.880] newest latest uh Android phones that are
[01:56:59.159] coming out will translate natively on
[01:57:02.599] your phone in real time in conversation
[01:57:05.679] so you could be speaking Portuguese to
[01:57:07.360] me I would hear it in English on a phone
[01:57:10.800] call which is [ __ ] wild it's crazy
[01:57:12.800] that's like Universal translator Star
[01:57:14.400] Trek literally yes literally literally
[01:57:16.520] well that that is a real thing now
[01:57:18.440] without having to use Google Translate
[01:57:20.679] it's native to the latest Android
[01:57:22.719] operating
[01:57:24.639] system you you could Auto if you just
[01:57:28.599] sit down and said well where's that
[01:57:30.360] going well it's going to something way
[01:57:33.280] more sophisticated and way more capable
[01:57:35.760] than we are biologically with our
[01:57:37.520] limitations the LI our monkey bodies we
[01:57:40.719] are the ancestors or the the the the the
[01:57:43.679] people that emerged from that distant
[01:57:47.239] cousin that orangutan that's using a
[01:57:48.880] stick to hunt fish we're we're going
[01:57:52.280] this direction what would be the most
[01:57:54.320] logical way we would completely
[01:57:57.079] accelerate that we create something that
[01:57:59.560] does what we do but does it way better
[01:58:01.480] yeah it's almost like to permanently
[01:58:02.719] Harbor our Consciousness eventually
[01:58:04.560] right right and that kind of makes sense
[01:58:06.920] it does make sense and there's a sort of
[01:58:09.079] understanding of that that leads to this
[01:58:10.800] fear of our demise that everyone you
[01:58:13.960] know elon's openly discussed this this
[01:58:16.639] Sam Alman and I were talking about it
[01:58:19.639] what open AI is doing what chat GPT 4
[01:58:23.560] versus chat GPT 5 which is going to be
[01:58:26.320] insanely Superior well what is chat GPT
[01:58:29.079] 15 going to do you know is that going to
[01:58:30.840] be the president of the world you know
[01:58:32.280] like what are we going to bypass
[01:58:35.520] government and just say you know it's
[01:58:37.079] it's obviously like this Administration
[01:58:39.320] is incredibly corrupt and flawed and
[01:58:41.520] influenced by the military-industrial
[01:58:42.920] complex it's not good for the world it's
[01:58:44.679] not good for the environment we need
[01:58:46.920] something that is far superior that
[01:58:49.040] doesn't have all these motivations what
[01:58:51.280] would that be that would be artificial
[01:58:52.599] intelligent creator that we or or
[01:58:55.360] creation rather that we use to govern
[01:58:58.239] life yeah I mean that sounds nuts but I
[01:59:02.000] think that's probably a better solution
[01:59:03.960] than humans with all of our [ __ ]
[01:59:06.000] flaws and issues and greed and envy and
[01:59:09.079] all the things that we have that would
[01:59:11.360] be a better version of it but what are
[01:59:13.239] we saying then are we saying that we're
[01:59:16.079] we're programming like empathy into it
[01:59:18.599] though you know like probably not
[01:59:20.560] probably not which is terrifying
[01:59:22.719] but we will become Obsolete and or we
[01:59:25.560] will merge and if we merge it will
[01:59:29.440] completely change what we are MH and I
[01:59:32.360] think that's very likely what's going to
[01:59:34.599] take place I think the initial stages
[01:59:36.360] will be some sort of a merging with
[01:59:38.920] technology and then from that merging it
[01:59:42.320] will essentially will realize well why
[01:59:43.679] are we even [ __ ] around like this
[01:59:45.760] this new thing is so Superior and it
[01:59:48.800] doesn't have all the pitfalls it doesn't
[01:59:50.360] have all the problems it's not
[01:59:52.040] shortsighted it's not going to drain the
[01:59:54.360] ocean of fish so that we we can make
[01:59:56.280] sushi it's going to do something it's
[01:59:58.520] going to be far more far more aware of
[02:00:02.280] all of the different effects of each
[02:00:06.040] individual act and how we affect
[02:00:09.599] everything around us and what is net
[02:00:11.719] positive and what is net negative and
[02:00:13.400] how to avoid all these things I I I
[02:00:16.199] really firmly believe that we are this
[02:00:20.639] biological cat pillar that is making a
[02:00:23.599] cocoon to create the electronic
[02:00:25.639] butterfly and we don't even know what
[02:00:27.360] we're doing while we're doing it we're
[02:00:28.719] just doing it and I think materialism is
[02:00:30.800] also baked into that one of the main
[02:00:33.079] problems with human beings in terms of
[02:00:34.760] like the Ridiculousness of our actions
[02:00:36.920] we're so materialistic and people are
[02:00:39.199] constantly wanting to get the newest
[02:00:40.800] latest greatest thing what's the
[02:00:42.560] motivation behind that other than social
[02:00:44.360] status well the motivation is that
[02:00:45.960] that's what that's what fuels Innovation
[02:00:48.639] if you do like if we all just stopped
[02:00:50.520] right now it's hey you know what iPhone
[02:00:53.760] 15 is pretty [ __ ] dope we don't need
[02:00:55.599] to make new iPhones let's just keep
[02:00:57.599] fixing those and just like exist the way
[02:01:00.599] we are right now and let's clean up the
[02:01:02.560] air let's clean up the ocean let's clean
[02:01:04.360] up the sea and clean up the rivers and
[02:01:06.119] clean up the the forest like let's just
[02:01:08.199] fix the Earth and then no we don't do
[02:01:10.320] that no I want iPhone 16 you know when
[02:01:12.800] when is the iPhone going to be able to
[02:01:14.159] communicate completely just with
[02:01:15.480] satellites we don't have to worry about
[02:01:16.880] cell phone sign it's almost like a drug
[02:01:18.239] addiction right they did studies where
[02:01:19.639] people receiving in text messages is the
[02:01:21.599] dope Rush too so it's like it's almost
[02:01:24.360] like an
[02:01:25.480] artificial drug addiction you're fueling
[02:01:27.880] because you want the more responsive
[02:01:30.599] Tech more integrating with your make
[02:01:33.040] easier so you can get your fix quicker
[02:01:36.400] and more efficiently or something like
[02:01:37.920] that I don't know right and why well I
[02:01:39.840] mean why would [ __ ] staring at a
[02:01:41.880] stupid cell phone give you a dopamine
[02:01:43.560] Rush well it does it does yeah I'm not a
[02:01:47.079] biologist you get addicted to your
[02:01:49.440] goddamn phones and then why would it be
[02:01:52.159] that we would innovate and create things
[02:01:54.320] like uh Instagram and Tik Tok that are
[02:01:57.280] insanely addictive to the point where
[02:01:59.639] you look down and you've spent three
[02:02:01.199] hours staring at nothing nonsense like
[02:02:04.199] what what why is that well that it
[02:02:06.719] ensures continual use of this device
[02:02:09.639] until it lures you into this ultimate
[02:02:11.639] integration well it's right well they
[02:02:13.199] there's people at well meta I guess now
[02:02:15.199] or Facebook you know where they actually
[02:02:16.800] have a whole team of scientists on how
[02:02:18.280] to make their apps more addictive right
[02:02:20.840] so
[02:02:22.400] demons yeah [ __ ] demons yeah I don't
[02:02:25.040] I don't use social media I have never
[02:02:26.480] tweeted in my life really that's amazing
[02:02:29.000] I mean I have like a I used Facebook
[02:02:31.119] back in the day when it first it first
[02:02:32.760] came out when I was going to college um
[02:02:36.320] but I yeah I don't don't have Instagram
[02:02:39.000] I've never tweeted in my life I I don't
[02:02:41.360] intend to because you don't want to get
[02:02:43.000] sucked into that mind virus which is
[02:02:45.159] like uh people responding you and you
[02:02:47.800] have to feel like you have to respond
[02:02:49.119] back I don't even I don't even touch it
[02:02:51.960] I'm very aware of those traps so I don't
[02:02:53.920] I don't do that I don't I used to but
[02:02:56.560] many years ago I stopped interacting
[02:02:58.239] with people cuz I just realized like
[02:03:01.040] overall it's negative yeah like there's
[02:03:03.079] positive aspects to it it's great for
[02:03:04.800] people that like you and that are fans
[02:03:06.560] it's great to that you're you're an
[02:03:07.840] actual human that you interact
[02:03:09.440] occasionally I comment on a post like
[02:03:11.079] that's really awesome congratulations
[02:03:12.719] that kind of stuff but then I get the
[02:03:13.920] [ __ ] out of there and I don't read any
[02:03:15.639] responses and I found that that's the
[02:03:17.840] very best way to mitigate all the
[02:03:19.840] negative aspects of social media but
[02:03:22.360] then you're also dealing with algorithms
[02:03:24.719] you're dealing with things that
[02:03:26.239] recognize what makes you more likely to
[02:03:29.000] engage and so those things are
[02:03:30.520] constantly showing you the things that
[02:03:31.800] you engage and uh you know it's not
[02:03:34.560] necessarily even positive it's just it's
[02:03:36.360] just whatever you engage with that's
[02:03:38.320] what's coming your way whether it could
[02:03:39.840] be cool stuff like maybe you're just
[02:03:41.679] like really into muscle cars and it
[02:03:43.000] shows you a lot of muscle cars or it
[02:03:44.280] could be like murder like I see a lot of
[02:03:47.079] murder on Instagram it's [ __ ] crazy
[02:03:50.159] yeah I'm a car guy so like my feed is
[02:03:52.719] like oh do you ever think about this mod
[02:03:54.719] for your Ford Bronco oh those lights
[02:03:56.679] look nice I'm going to wire that [ __ ] up
[02:03:58.239] next week you know so I get those too
[02:04:00.440] yeah it's bad yeah I have a problem with
[02:04:02.280] that I have a a car problem yeah my wife
[02:04:04.679] doesn't allow me to have the good stuff
[02:04:06.760] anymore so I have to you know keep it
[02:04:09.040] under a certain price well that's good
[02:04:11.119] that's good I I'm more actually
[02:04:13.040] interested in old stuff than I am in new
[02:04:14.800] stuff you like a like rat rod stuff
[02:04:16.679] right well I like muscle cars like very
[02:04:19.079] specifically 1960s muscle cars those are
[02:04:21.559] my favorite because what they are to me
[02:04:23.719] is it's a toy that you could drive yeah
[02:04:27.079] it's like a ride that gives me immense
[02:04:29.440] pleasure to just drive around and it's
[02:04:31.960] really fun I don't even have to go fast
[02:04:33.920] it's just going around in a 1970 chevel
[02:04:37.920] just driving it it just it it's hard to
[02:04:40.559] describe for someone who has never
[02:04:42.079] experienced it but it's just uh it just
[02:04:45.400] so engaging and it's like you're on this
[02:04:47.960] drug yeah he
[02:04:50.639] like it's like everything you feel all
[02:04:53.679] of it and you're
[02:04:54.960] engaging all of these senses yeah it's
[02:04:57.840] very tactile very mechanical I yeah I
[02:05:00.159] totally understand that I mean the only
[02:05:01.520] kind of old cars I like are like the
[02:05:03.599] black Lincoln Lincoln Continental
[02:05:05.599] suicide doors from The Matrix I remember
[02:05:07.920] seeing that when I was like teen when
[02:05:09.119] the Matrix came out I'm like that car is
[02:05:11.000] badass it's like totally I want like to
[02:05:13.400] have whatever Morpheus drove you know
[02:05:15.079] they art they're essentially art it's
[02:05:17.159] it's it's it's functional art like you
[02:05:19.520] could it's a piece of art that you could
[02:05:21.840] actually drive around and yeah and it
[02:05:23.639] gives you this very bizarre sensation
[02:05:27.679] but the point is that like that's not
[02:05:29.679] most people most people want the newest
[02:05:31.800] latest greatest thing and this there's a
[02:05:34.520] motivation to get the newest latest
[02:05:36.760] greatest thing that I think if you just
[02:05:39.760] follow that up to its logical conclusion
[02:05:42.400] it's going to create life it's going to
[02:05:45.199] create I mean how many films have been
[02:05:47.079] made about this you know exmachina and
[02:05:50.040] all all these different films that
[02:05:51.239] that's right
[02:05:52.480] that's what we're going to do we're
[02:05:54.440] going to I mean there's no way we're not
[02:05:56.400] going to do that it's it's if if I had a
[02:05:59.239] bet on one thing if the human race
[02:06:01.559] doesn't get wiped out by a meteor or a
[02:06:03.320] nuclear war we're gonna [ __ ] do that
[02:06:05.760] we're going to make a life form 100% And
[02:06:09.159] it's going to be almost instantaneously
[02:06:11.360] able to figure out all the flaws in its
[02:06:14.000] own personal programming and make a much
[02:06:15.639] better version of itself if it if it's
[02:06:17.599] sensient if it has the ability to make
[02:06:19.159] decisions well I think we're close I
[02:06:20.440] mean I think I saw some stuff there's
[02:06:21.840] like a open AI Fiasco going on right now
[02:06:24.639] and there's rumor that they might have
[02:06:26.040] cracked artificial general intelligence
[02:06:28.159] right AGI and that's oh Jesus that's
[02:06:30.679] frightening I mean there's like was it
[02:06:32.480] um Sam ultman I think we were talking
[02:06:34.119] about I think there's like a the board
[02:06:35.520] of open AI there's some Shuffle I was
[02:06:37.360] just yeah they just removed him brought
[02:06:39.040] him right back well they removed him but
[02:06:41.599] then apparently the shareholders like
[02:06:43.360] what the [ __ ] are you doing and there
[02:06:45.400] was so much outrage that they're trying
[02:06:47.000] to bring him back like instantly so but
[02:06:50.320] but Elon had a very good point like what
[02:06:52.760] was the motivation behind that and when
[02:06:54.679] you think about the implications for
[02:06:56.520] Humanity as a whole cuz this is such an
[02:06:58.639] emerging technology that's so
[02:07:01.360] overwhelmingly powerful what happened
[02:07:05.280] like what's going on like I think this
[02:07:07.159] is one of those things where like we
[02:07:08.440] need to know like what was the
[02:07:09.559] motivation behind your decision and if
[02:07:11.559] it was that he was holding back
[02:07:15.040] information about the actual creation of
[02:07:17.480] artificial general intelligence that
[02:07:19.320] it's already it's already happened and
[02:07:21.719] that he's like hesitant because he's a
[02:07:24.079] little Cy in how he talks about stuff
[02:07:27.079] when I was talking to him about you
[02:07:28.400] could tell it's like a little bit like
[02:07:31.599] he kind of knows yeah that he is at the
[02:07:34.400] Forefront of this technology
[02:07:37.800] that worst case scenario replaces
[02:07:42.000] us yeah and you know going back to is a
[02:07:45.719] program with any kind of empathy Etc
[02:07:47.719] depending on if it handles critical I
[02:07:49.440] guess the thing I saw in the government
[02:07:51.520] cuz I did a lot of cyber stuff in my
[02:07:55.400] career as as AI gets more advanced you
[02:07:59.520] you know you create say offensive cyber
[02:08:02.360] tools that literally have a mind of
[02:08:04.679] their own and if say theoretically you
[02:08:08.079] release that on some Target and you
[02:08:11.079] might not be able to touch that Target
[02:08:12.520] again say it's a one time whoop you put
[02:08:14.400] it in there well how do you control it
[02:08:17.639] it's almost like Skynet in The
[02:08:18.800] Terminator I hate to use that analogy
[02:08:20.360] but like that was my fear when I was
[02:08:22.840] working at certain agencies working on
[02:08:24.760] offensive cyber tools I'm like oh my God
[02:08:27.000] this is not good and then of course with
[02:08:29.360] cyber right it's the attribution actor
[02:08:32.800] attribution is the biggest thing um how
[02:08:35.920] do you know it was you know
[02:08:37.119] hypothetically Russia that used the
[02:08:39.040] Cyber weapon to attack you it could have
[02:08:41.520] been another actor masquerading as that
[02:08:43.639] fore power using tactics techniques
[02:08:46.239] procedures uh IP proxy operations to
[02:08:49.040] hide where it was coming from so it's
[02:08:51.079] like you have uh non-kinetic
[02:08:54.800] fires that can potentially create
[02:08:57.320] mutually assured destruction because you
[02:08:59.280] could take out critical infrastructure
[02:09:01.599] blow blow up the power grid Etc no
[02:09:05.239] radiation but potentially no attribution
[02:09:09.280] or con you know confuse the attribution
[02:09:11.719] in such that you don't even know who to
[02:09:12.960] go to war with it's like really scary to
[02:09:14.679] me so it is scary yeah that's just my
[02:09:16.960] own it's already happening with social
[02:09:18.599] media I mean think about how many troll
[02:09:21.400] Farms there are on social media that are
[02:09:23.320] just stirring up discontent I mean and
[02:09:25.760] it's an active program that we know that
[02:09:28.599] Russia uses that is trying to undermine
[02:09:31.320] democracy and try to keep people
[02:09:32.719] fighting with each other and it's been
[02:09:34.559] very effective and if you look at social
[02:09:36.199] media it's just [ __ ] chaos it's just
[02:09:37.920] people yelling each other particularly
[02:09:39.599] Twitter or X you know that's and
[02:09:41.880] Facebook it's like a lot of what's going
[02:09:43.639] on one of the studies showed that out of
[02:09:46.280] the top 20 Christian sites that are on
[02:09:48.960] Facebook 19 of them are run by Russian
[02:09:51.119] Trump Farms so if we know that that on a
[02:09:55.960] like relatively rudimentary scale scale
[02:09:59.800] if you look at the uh impact of social
[02:10:02.480] media versus the impact of artificial
[02:10:04.400] intelligence they're already doing that
[02:10:06.040] they're already hiding who's responsible
[02:10:08.480] and what's the what's the goal and how
[02:10:10.639] to manipulate Consciousness and how to
[02:10:13.079] manipulate uh influence and how people
[02:10:15.599] think about things and what what the
[02:10:17.440] public opinion on things are it's
[02:10:19.040] already very effective
[02:10:21.559] um you would imagine that a creation of
[02:10:25.199] artificial intelligence would radically
[02:10:27.000] accelerate that oh 100% then I remember
[02:10:30.280] the Deep fake stuff was a real problem
[02:10:32.639] for my old Community because we're like
[02:10:35.000] holy [ __ ] you could really fake some
[02:10:36.599] stuff and you got to develop algorithms
[02:10:38.280] to make sure you can analyze oh hey that
[02:10:40.880] that is fake because you've seen some of
[02:10:42.000] the deep fakes where it's like Obama or
[02:10:43.920] Arnold Schwarzenegger yes the Tom Cruz
[02:10:46.920] guy holy [ __ ] that is crazy like you're
[02:10:50.440] going to be able to bring actors from
[02:10:51.719] the dead back at this point you're going
[02:10:53.320] to have like Carrie Grant uh you know
[02:10:56.040] doing a musical or whatever you know
[02:10:57.960] whatever you know Bruce Willis who has
[02:11:01.280] uh some sort of a degenerate
[02:11:02.920] degenerative neurological condition sold
[02:11:05.400] his likeness for the ability to make
[02:11:08.159] commercials and all sorts of other
[02:11:09.840] things like he's essentially saying he's
[02:11:13.840] fading unfortunately and now he will
[02:11:17.679] give this thing which is this property
[02:11:20.360] which is Bruce Willis
[02:11:22.320] famous and they will be able to create
[02:11:24.520] versions of him starring in films oh and
[02:11:27.760] certainly if you train an AI model just
[02:11:29.800] like chat GPT you could actually get
[02:11:32.159] almost like what they would normally say
[02:11:33.960] what their knowledge 100% And it's
[02:11:36.520] almost like a having a permanent
[02:11:38.159] historian too you could like you know if
[02:11:39.880] you want to talk to Clint Eastwood about
[02:11:42.280] his films in the 60s after Clint
[02:11:44.199] Eastwood you know passes you know may he
[02:11:46.320] live forever but like that would be it'd
[02:11:48.559] be crazy it be really interesting but I
[02:11:50.360] mean he might actually be able to give
[02:11:51.599] you advice he might be your personal
[02:11:53.320] adviser I know that' be cool I mean
[02:11:55.360] that's probably one of the things that's
[02:11:56.480] going to come out of this but when we
[02:11:58.639] think about empathy we we also think
[02:12:01.520] about just human beings and the way we
[02:12:05.679] communicate and interact with each other
[02:12:07.280] empathy is very important and also
[02:12:09.559] compassion and forgiveness all these
[02:12:11.920] things are very important qualities
[02:12:13.239] because we recognize that we're very
[02:12:14.639] flawed but when you create something
[02:12:18.199] that is not flawed yeah then the need
[02:12:21.280] for empathy the need for all these
[02:12:23.199] things that we attach to human emotions
[02:12:24.960] and human reward systems they will
[02:12:27.119] they'll no longer be a significant issue
[02:12:29.159] because you're going to be dealing with
[02:12:30.599] something that operates on a higher
[02:12:31.920] plane it might be the answer to all that
[02:12:34.639] ails us which is so terrifying for us
[02:12:37.599] because we recognize that what we derive
[02:12:40.880] the joy that we derive from Love from
[02:12:43.800] companionship from Friendship from
[02:12:46.000] Community it's like a key component to
[02:12:48.639] life on Earth for us but it's also
[02:12:51.760] because we recognize that without that
[02:12:53.960] we are the Mongols without that we're
[02:12:56.360] Nazi Germany without that you know we're
[02:12:58.440] Hamas we're whatever the [ __ ] we are
[02:13:00.079] that's that we recognize as being like
[02:13:02.960] evil or dangerous or horrible about
[02:13:05.960] humans the when we think about the worst
[02:13:08.480] case scenario for human beings we always
[02:13:11.079] think about things like the Holocaust we
[02:13:12.719] think about what is the worst the worst
[02:13:15.239] acts that human beings are capable of
[02:13:17.800] with our current programming and our
[02:13:20.000] biological flaws like what are the worst
[02:13:22.040] things we could do terrible awful things
[02:13:24.599] well if we don't have those problems if
[02:13:27.000] we no longer have Envy we no longer have
[02:13:29.880] greed we no longer have evil if we don't
[02:13:32.920] have any of those properties they don't
[02:13:34.320] they don't exist anymore we just have
[02:13:36.960] this new form of Consciousness that's
[02:13:40.159] far superior that's an interesting
[02:13:42.480] parallel because you have you know
[02:13:45.199] you're no longer maybe Apex sentience if
[02:13:47.400] you have artificial intelligence you
[02:13:49.239] know governing certain things right
[02:13:51.599] and I think that's also kind of this uh
[02:13:54.800] psychological issue with this UAP issue
[02:13:57.360] where we might not be the apex predator
[02:14:00.280] we have we may be that mountain lion and
[02:14:03.639] uh and we're going to have to be
[02:14:05.960] comfortable knowing that we're going to
[02:14:08.440] be vulnerable there's people far
[02:14:10.599] superior that may have malevolent
[02:14:12.559] intentions maybe not I don't know and uh
[02:14:16.599] almost be humbled the fact that like
[02:14:18.360] sorry we're not the smartest of God's
[02:14:20.480] creation and and that might be really
[02:14:22.719] hard for a lot of people to process and
[02:14:24.400] I think that's probably
[02:14:25.800] certainly I would imagine one of the
[02:14:29.119] deliberations they must have done years
[02:14:30.599] ago like oh we can't disclose because
[02:14:32.520] you know people are not going to feel
[02:14:34.639] comfortable in that world view 100% And
[02:14:37.960] they're not and then I wonder if these
[02:14:41.159] things that we're experiencing are the
[02:14:43.639] natural progression of what happens when
[02:14:46.360] you do Seed Life on planet or you do
[02:14:49.440] accelerate biological life you do have
[02:14:52.960] some sort of a genetic intervention
[02:14:55.040] where you take this thing that has
[02:14:56.679] emerging intelligence and you accelerate
[02:14:58.920] it and that that thing will in turn with
[02:15:02.360] all of its desire for Innovation and
[02:15:05.119] creativity and also all of its desire to
[02:15:07.840] control resources and and have power and
[02:15:10.920] have influence that it will eventually
[02:15:13.880] lead to the creation of what we're
[02:15:17.119] seeing that these things are the next
[02:15:20.280] stage of this process and that maybe
[02:15:23.880] we're dealing with one form of that next
[02:15:26.400] stage but there's another stage that's a
[02:15:28.520] million years more advanced than that
[02:15:30.520] that's far superior that doesn't even
[02:15:32.520] have a biological limitation in terms of
[02:15:35.239] physical space that it exists completely
[02:15:38.400] in some other undetectable realm that is
[02:15:42.159] not no longer no longer thinks about
[02:15:44.960] biological limitations of life and death
[02:15:47.040] and and communication it exists
[02:15:49.480] completely in some other
[02:15:52.280] that's what these are and always wonder
[02:15:55.880] when there's aash or when there's a body
[02:15:58.280] or when there's this that like and
[02:16:00.040] people saying well what if they're so
[02:16:01.559] Advanced why are they crashing well hold
[02:16:04.679] on what what are which which version are
[02:16:07.239] we looking at we're we're not saying
[02:16:08.840] there's one thing that's visiting us if
[02:16:10.880] there's one thing that's visiting us and
[02:16:12.360] we know where this one thing is we could
[02:16:13.880] say oh well that thing it deals with a
[02:16:15.920] completely different solar system that's
[02:16:17.320] not as vulnerable it doesn't have
[02:16:18.679] asteroid clouds it doesn't have all
[02:16:20.159] these different things where it's like
[02:16:21.760] it doesn't have a a planet that has
[02:16:23.440] super volcanoes maybe life evolved in a
[02:16:25.920] more stable environment and it allowed
[02:16:27.840] it to get to a far greater technological
[02:16:31.520] level but not the ultimate yeah we might
[02:16:35.599] be testing the extent of their
[02:16:36.960] adaptability and like I said are they
[02:16:38.760] crashing by accident right Mission
[02:16:41.319] failure or on purpose right so and then
[02:16:45.319] of course with the far distances and
[02:16:46.920] everything I mean if they're traveling
[02:16:49.679] here through some kind of space FaceTime
[02:16:51.200] metric engineering construct you know um
[02:16:54.679] uh the distances are not as vast as you
[02:16:56.439] think right they could be going through
[02:16:57.800] some kind of you know traversible
[02:16:59.280] Wormhole or something like that where
[02:17:01.120] it's like a walk down the street for
[02:17:02.519] them it's not you know a thousand Lighty
[02:17:04.200] years well just think about
[02:17:05.559] communication just are communication
[02:17:08.280] used to be you had to get in front of
[02:17:09.679] someone and you had to talk to them so
[02:17:11.599] you had to know their language you had
[02:17:13.000] to either non-verbal or verbal
[02:17:15.000] communication you had to figure out a
[02:17:16.639] way to say things to them that's no
[02:17:18.880] longer the case obviously with this new
[02:17:21.040] Android operating system it translates
[02:17:23.000] but also the fact that you could have a
[02:17:25.880] [ __ ] FaceTime call with someone in
[02:17:28.080] Japan right now and you instantaneously
[02:17:31.800] can communicate back and forth which is
[02:17:33.519] insane that's a vast distance but for us
[02:17:35.599] it's like stupid it's like yeah easy
[02:17:37.679] vast distance and instantaneous yeah I
[02:17:41.120] mean uh I was just in Scotland and I was
[02:17:43.679] FaceTiming my daughter back home yeah
[02:17:46.559] [ __ ] crazy you're 9 hours by plane
[02:17:49.200] and you're having instantaneous
[02:17:50.880] communication which is wild [ __ ] but
[02:17:54.479] that's just that's
[02:17:56.719] [ __ ] that that that's like pong you
[02:17:59.880] know that's uh that's a morse code
[02:18:02.559] that's like it's very primitive in terms
[02:18:05.200] of what if you physically can be in
[02:18:07.519] these places instantaneous yeah and why
[02:18:10.240] why would we assume that that's not
[02:18:11.800] eventually going to be on the menu yeah
[02:18:14.200] it's just like the conventional
[02:18:16.200] propulsion stuff for not using an Elon
[02:18:18.399] Musk Starship to get here it's like they
[02:18:20.880] doing something else you talked to
[02:18:22.120] someone from the 1800s and you said
[02:18:23.840] you're going to go to Nevada Jesus
[02:18:25.359] Christ you know how far that is on a
[02:18:26.679] wagon you know that's months man but no
[02:18:29.800] you fly to Vegas it's two hours it's
[02:18:31.960] [ __ ] easy you know like we know that
[02:18:34.519] now so why would we assume that there's
[02:18:38.160] a limitation to that advancement I don't
[02:18:40.439] think there is yeah and of course A
[02:18:42.880] friend of mine Eric Weinstein
[02:18:45.559] certainly spouses we don't even have the
[02:18:47.599] right theoretical Frameworks right now
[02:18:49.439] you know he get he he has own geometric
[02:18:51.479] Unity Theory and he's way smarter than I
[02:18:54.080] he's too smart but uh he's confusing
[02:18:56.439] yeah he starts talking to you like it's
[02:18:59.040] so funny if he calls me I'm like you got
[02:19:01.080] to call me in the morning after my 24
[02:19:02.880] ounce Monster Energy drink or or I can't
[02:19:05.399] even keep up man it's like uh yeah he's
[02:19:08.240] he's on another level he has some his
[02:19:10.359] he's got some unique theories himself
[02:19:12.200] about where all this stuff is coming
[02:19:13.399] from and uh it's it's all very very very
[02:19:17.840] interesting and intriguing but also
[02:19:20.920] makes sense all of it makes sense
[02:19:22.840] including being visited you know I had
[02:19:25.120] this conversation with Neil degrass
[02:19:26.280] Tyson he's like why would they be
[02:19:27.240] interested in us I'm like what the [ __ ]
[02:19:28.800] are you talking about we're super
[02:19:30.040] interested yeah Neil I mean obviously
[02:19:32.120] he's a fine science Communicator kind of
[02:19:34.240] the success of successor of kind of
[02:19:37.080] the uh Carl s kind of I think Carl was a
[02:19:40.359] little bit more openminded yeah I like
[02:19:42.439] Carl better by I'm more of a fan wish he
[02:19:45.200] was still alive I love to smoke weed
[02:19:47.280] with that guy he was really into weed oh
[02:19:49.120] really yeah really really into I
[02:19:50.880] remember my my aunt gave me Cosmos by
[02:19:53.640] Carl Sean when I was in Middle School
[02:19:55.319] and it was that book was from the 80s
[02:19:56.680] but that book tripped me out and I was
[02:19:59.479] like I want to study science and I read
[02:20:02.000] it was Brief History of Time by Stephen
[02:20:03.800] Hawking and I read those two books when
[02:20:06.160] I was like an eth grade and I was like
[02:20:07.920] this is trippy I want to study astronomy
[02:20:10.560] this is insane but I ultimately used
[02:20:13.319] kind of my technical background to be a
[02:20:15.479] spook you know for the government but uh
[02:20:18.080] I still observe I have a big telescope
[02:20:20.200] and I live like super dark skies in
[02:20:22.399] Colorado and it's still that Boyhood
[02:20:25.359] fascination of the cosmos now uh
[02:20:28.120] ironically I found out about something
[02:20:29.840] else that kind of confirms that the
[02:20:31.439] cosmos is uh not lifeless and you know
[02:20:34.920] God paints with a broad brush as like
[02:20:36.680] the Vatican has exposed a couple years
[02:20:38.920] ago when they said this is okay with
[02:20:40.560] their theology I have a theory that the
[02:20:42.880] universe itself is
[02:20:44.520] God I think that's like what I was
[02:20:46.840] talking about with the you know
[02:20:48.760] multi-dimensional Creator creating
[02:20:50.640] universes yeah I think we have a very
[02:20:52.479] limited idea of when we say God when God
[02:20:55.560] created the heavens and like right right
[02:20:58.200] but what is what what are we saying I
[02:20:59.960] think it's the universe itself I think
[02:21:02.240] it's one thing and that this one thing
[02:21:06.359] it seeks to create these things that
[02:21:10.399] continually push the envelopes and may
[02:21:12.600] be Gods themselves eventually I think if
[02:21:15.640] you extrapolate from our ability versus
[02:21:18.760] the ability of an amoeba and you
[02:21:20.680] continue to move that along what does
[02:21:22.880] that do well it's going to be able to
[02:21:24.520] create universes there's already been
[02:21:26.560] like theoretical papers that have been
[02:21:29.000] written about the creation of other
[02:21:32.399] things like black holes other things
[02:21:35.319] like a universe other like what what is
[02:21:37.760] involved in the creation of a universe
[02:21:39.600] what is involved in the Big Bang can
[02:21:41.280] that be replicated well not now but if
[02:21:45.160] AI becomes sensient and AI eventually
[02:21:49.960] makes far greater versions of itself if
[02:21:53.000] it keeps doing that like what what what
[02:21:55.240] are the limits of its potential create
[02:21:57.359] creates The Matrix L create yeah
[02:21:59.240] literally literally creates a simulated
[02:22:01.800] environment that's indect IND
[02:22:03.280] discernible you you can't tell the
[02:22:05.280] difference between that and regular life
[02:22:07.200] well maybe because there is no
[02:22:08.240] difference maybe that is what I mean
[02:22:10.600] that's the theory of simulation theater
[02:22:13.200] yeah simulation Theory yeah familiar and
[02:22:15.560] that that is a possibility cuz uh the
[02:22:18.040] universe seems like a little too perfect
[02:22:21.200] it's a little strange very created to me
[02:22:24.560] so just like we're in the goldilock zone
[02:22:27.319] perfect
[02:22:28.280] temperature like it's how about the Big
[02:22:30.920] Bang itself like what what happened
[02:22:34.080] something smaller than the head of a pin
[02:22:36.240] for for no known reason becomes
[02:22:39.720] everything yeah okay and what's the
[02:22:42.200] universe expanding into it's like a
[02:22:44.359] quantum foam or whatever the heck the
[02:22:45.760] latest theory is that's like Beyond me
[02:22:48.840] and then it perhaps just retracts back
[02:22:51.200] down to that infinitely small thing and
[02:22:54.040] then expands again and that this is an
[02:22:56.040] endless cycle and that we're just so
[02:22:57.960] limited because of our biological
[02:22:59.560] limitations or our our life and death is
[02:23:02.080] such a a small little tiny blip it's so
[02:23:06.600] minuscule in terms of just the overall
[02:23:09.240] known life of the universe and then you
[02:23:11.920] have the James Webb Telescope that's you
[02:23:14.359] know there's people that question the
[02:23:16.080] actual length of time that occurred
[02:23:19.520] between the Big Bang now that maybe it
[02:23:21.240] might be far longer and there's people
[02:23:23.120] like Brian keing that say that's not
[02:23:24.800] that's not correct it's just a a lack of
[02:23:27.479] understanding of what we understand
[02:23:29.680] currently about the creation of galaxies
[02:23:31.640] and these things yeah because I mean
[02:23:32.880] obviously the length of the the age of
[02:23:34.439] the universe keeps on getting older and
[02:23:35.680] older and a lot of that's because of the
[02:23:37.000] the Doppler fit Doppler shift right the
[02:23:39.080] red shift as the galaxies are
[02:23:41.319] accelerating
[02:23:42.720] away um you know we can calculate what
[02:23:45.840] the what what their origin Point
[02:23:47.439] probably was and how long it took for
[02:23:48.880] them to speed up like that right and
[02:23:51.080] only based on our current understanding
[02:23:53.720] yes which is obviously at least fairly
[02:23:56.080] Limited in terms of what's its potential
[02:23:58.200] is well yeah like we still don't quite
[02:24:00.399] understand the origin of the Moon the
[02:24:01.880] Moon is at the right location that
[02:24:04.200] causes solar and lunar eclipses it's
[02:24:06.399] like the right apparent uh size to block
[02:24:09.399] out the sun it's like super weird same
[02:24:11.479] thing with like Mars we're not sure like
[02:24:13.680] what happened there where Mars you know
[02:24:16.920] had some probable life on it either a
[02:24:19.479] protoplanet hit or there was some kind
[02:24:21.359] of impact that vaporized stuff and like
[02:24:24.680] who knows yeah who knows and this is
[02:24:27.439] just this little tiny neighborhood that
[02:24:29.520] we're looking at it's like we are in our
[02:24:31.840] backyard looking for evidence of like
[02:24:34.840] life in
[02:24:35.880] Africa you know I mean like you're not
[02:24:37.920] going to figure it out here there's so
[02:24:40.160] there's just we're just looking at such
[02:24:42.120] a small scale in terms of what we could
[02:24:45.439] potentially discover or potentially
[02:24:47.319] observe yeah yeah I I often wonder you
[02:24:51.279] know when we're seeing especially with
[02:24:54.000] the idea of uaps UFO crafts if we're
[02:24:56.600] we're seeing a version of what we will
[02:24:59.479] become or something like us becomes if
[02:25:01.840] given enough time well that that is I
[02:25:04.080] mean there's like a Dr Mike Masters at
[02:25:06.880] Montana State he literally postulates
[02:25:10.080] you know he says Time Travelers uh we
[02:25:12.040] could debate time travel but like he
[02:25:14.040] thinks it might be like a advanced form
[02:25:16.120] of homo sapien is what we're seeing
[02:25:17.880] coming back yeah like a breakaway
[02:25:19.760] civilization we coming back to see an
[02:25:21.720] older version of our that was left on
[02:25:23.520] Earth or something like well the way we
[02:25:25.000] would visit like North Sentinel Island
[02:25:27.359] and and visit those people that are
[02:25:28.880] trapped on that island that are
[02:25:30.600] uncontacted yeah yeah exactly and then a
[02:25:33.359] lot of uh you know there's also like
[02:25:35.399] cargo cult religions and stuff you know
[02:25:37.160] the South Pacific in World War II they
[02:25:39.680] they worshiped the P-51 and stuff like
[02:25:42.960] they thought those were UFOs but really
[02:25:44.760] they were just us you know so and I
[02:25:46.880] think we were probably alien to them I
[02:25:48.840] mean comes I mean just look at how
[02:25:51.240] Cortez looked uh to the the people that
[02:25:54.439] you know had no idea that people could
[02:25:55.760] ride horses like what the [ __ ] is going
[02:25:57.920] on this guys are riding horses yeah like
[02:26:00.000] these are Gods these white guys coming
[02:26:01.960] in what the insane they come on a ship
[02:26:05.000] in the ocean and they ride horses yeah
[02:26:07.760] yeah exactly um yeah it's all based on
[02:26:10.359] our limited understanding and for
[02:26:13.359] someone whether it's the federal
[02:26:15.200] government or whether it's military
[02:26:17.000] contractors for someone to have key
[02:26:20.600] elements that could give us a better
[02:26:23.279] understanding of this whole
[02:26:26.479] picture it's it's really inexcusable to
[02:26:30.880] not relay that to all of humanity so
[02:26:34.319] this is too much information to be
[02:26:36.760] secret it's too important if it is real
[02:26:40.880] it's too important for someone to have
[02:26:44.359] access to just because they have power
[02:26:46.240] and money and influence yeah it seems
[02:26:48.840] insane I mean that's the whole primer
[02:26:51.840] for what I did I mean it's I I you know
[02:26:55.200] I think I'm a pretty [ __ ] ethical
[02:26:56.520] person I just could not live with myself
[02:26:58.359] if I didn't try to like make a
[02:26:59.640] difference even though it was very
[02:27:01.080] uncomfortable personal privacy and then
[02:27:03.439] you know professional and personal
[02:27:05.600] health was at risk you know so it's just
[02:27:07.720] it also seems like the public
[02:27:09.960] understanding and appreciation of these
[02:27:11.279] things particularly after the 2017
[02:27:13.399] article in New York Times has changed
[02:27:15.520] there's been a shift whereas before if
[02:27:17.640] you would talk about UFOs or the idea of
[02:27:19.680] extra life you are automatically lumped
[02:27:23.040] into this group of people that believes
[02:27:24.279] in Bigfoot you know it's like you're in
[02:27:26.600] you're in the lock Nest monster you're
[02:27:28.319] kind of a loon who likes Fringe things
[02:27:30.439] cuz probably got problems in your own
[02:27:32.040] life you're not addressing and so you're
[02:27:33.399] distracted it's like a a gambler or
[02:27:35.560] something like that you're just like
[02:27:36.960] distracting yourself with this craziness
[02:27:39.439] in order to ignore the the reality of
[02:27:42.120] existence itself which is so complicated
[02:27:43.840] and difficult to manage and then I think
[02:27:46.240] that if we had a better understanding of
[02:27:49.880] the
[02:27:51.040] the overall scale of the potential of
[02:27:54.279] life in the universe based on what we
[02:27:56.200] know like physical evidence undeniable
[02:27:59.399] physical evidence that shows us that
[02:28:01.000] we're not alone that would be a massive
[02:28:05.319] change in just the overall shift of
[02:28:09.160] Consciousness on Earth if we could
[02:28:11.399] understand that these territorial
[02:28:13.960] disputes that we have which are almost
[02:28:16.240] always over resources or over land or
[02:28:19.160] over religion and ideologies if we could
[02:28:22.399] understand that these are nonsense in
[02:28:25.399] the vast scope of the universe itself
[02:28:27.720] and this is the uh the what is that
[02:28:30.600] effect that the people that get into the
[02:28:32.920] space station have and
[02:28:35.000] astronauts overview effect overview
[02:28:37.040] effect yes William Shatner had that when
[02:28:39.600] he went up in the uh blue origin yeah
[02:28:41.800] thing I'm sure I'm sure everybody has it
[02:28:43.760] I mean I'm sure it's just like you go
[02:28:45.200] like oh my God like what are we doing
[02:28:47.399] like this is one and that's how I felt I
[02:28:49.800] mean like after I found all this stuff I
[02:28:51.399] could have continued my career you know
[02:28:52.880] made lieutenant colonel here this winter
[02:28:55.120] made Senior executive service in a year
[02:28:56.720] or two did National Security stuff but
[02:28:59.040] I'm like sitting in my office and I'm
[02:29:01.319] like there's better things for me to
[02:29:04.080] care about than Russian troop movements
[02:29:08.319] like we're not alone right this is
[02:29:11.040] insane like I I have to like blow the
[02:29:13.439] whistle on this this is insane cuz
[02:29:15.880] certainly the people we talk to are not
[02:29:18.399] lying and the documents side
[02:29:20.560] meticulously went through they were not
[02:29:22.600] forgeries they were not deception
[02:29:24.439] material so it's just like I have to do
[02:29:26.439] something I'm sure you've seen those uh
[02:29:28.399] Freedom of Information Act disclosure uh
[02:29:30.840] papers from the CIA from God it was like
[02:29:33.760] the 1950s where they're detailing all
[02:29:36.520] the various forms of life and that that
[02:29:39.680] we know are currently that currently
[02:29:42.279] exist and you remember that Jamie we
[02:29:45.120] pulled up that document do you think you
[02:29:46.800] can find it Jamie will find it but this
[02:29:50.560] like 1950 something where they were
[02:29:52.600] discussing these things interesting yeah
[02:29:54.000] I'm not sure which ones you're talking
[02:29:55.120] about I'd have to see them so it's
[02:29:56.800] pretty weird stuff because like if they
[02:29:58.840] knew about this in the 1950s like how do
[02:30:01.279] they know well there was like CIA docks
[02:30:03.240] about Consciousness and like weird
[02:30:05.240] remote viewing stuff I mean besides the
[02:30:07.319] Stargate program uh that were released
[02:30:10.160] in the foyer reading room on cia's
[02:30:12.240] website too that are pretty trippy where
[02:30:14.040] like wow CIA is looking into some really
[02:30:15.920] interesting stuff I mean they're
[02:30:18.720] hardcore Intel agency
[02:30:20.600] what's going on there but it makes sense
[02:30:22.319] that they would kind of have to find out
[02:30:24.160] if that's [ __ ] or not like you can't
[02:30:26.479] ignore that if you're really doing your
[02:30:28.240] job if your job is intelligence like
[02:30:30.640] okay like let's look at this or it's an
[02:30:32.640] aspect of the phenomenon because it's
[02:30:34.960] like a reach out from the crash
[02:30:36.720] retrieval program like hey I need you to
[02:30:38.520] look into some weird stuff because it
[02:30:40.319] might be the key unlock for something
[02:30:42.359] that we got in a warehouse you know so
[02:30:44.920] whoa yeah yeah so as it stands right now
[02:30:50.319] what what's the future for this stuff
[02:30:52.560] what's the future for these disclosures
[02:30:54.880] and and what what are the bottlenecks
[02:30:57.520] well I mean certainly from the
[02:30:59.240] governmental process you know as long as
[02:31:01.160] the house doesn't kill this Schumer
[02:31:02.640] Amendment and I'm you know that's why
[02:31:04.920] I'm discussing it here with you because
[02:31:06.600] if they they don't pass it it's going to
[02:31:08.960] be the greatest setback to humankind in
[02:31:11.200] US history
[02:31:12.880] literally that so the presidential panel
[02:31:15.760] gets impanel about 90 days or so after
[02:31:18.800] the passage of the bill so by by
[02:31:22.560] Christmas as long as it doesn't get
[02:31:24.600] killed we be in the National Defense
[02:31:26.240] authorization act panel will be formed
[02:31:30.240] um say February March then they have a
[02:31:33.880] 300 day process to develop a initial
[02:31:36.640] plan for the president and I don't know
[02:31:39.200] if uh Chuck Schumer and his staff are
[02:31:41.160] being kind of uh crafty or whatever but
[02:31:44.479] the 300 days if you actually do it out
[02:31:46.920] it's like the election so so I don't
[02:31:49.600] know if they want to make it an election
[02:31:51.680] issue which certainly if this act
[02:31:53.560] doesn't pass I think it needs to be an
[02:31:55.080] election issue because the senior
[02:31:56.319] executive needs to rule on this if
[02:31:58.880] Congress can't get their [ __ ] together
[02:32:00.120] to be quite honest and we have a a plan
[02:32:04.000] out to 2030 where this stuff starts
[02:32:06.000] getting rolled out Knock on Wood Perfect
[02:32:08.160] Storm things could get delayed but then
[02:32:10.960] in parallel and that's kind of why I
[02:32:13.920] helped found the soul foundation with
[02:32:15.600] Gary Nolan and Dr Peter skafish who's an
[02:32:18.040] anthropologist uh as well is we wanted
[02:32:21.000] to figure out the stem Outreach we
[02:32:23.479] wanted to figure out the public policy
[02:32:25.120] National policy to advise the US and its
[02:32:27.399] allies on this issue you know and we're
[02:32:30.439] happy like I said I'm not here to slap
[02:32:33.479] the government in its entirety and
[02:32:34.880] admonish everybody like I think there
[02:32:36.439] needs to be a Truth and Reconciliation
[02:32:38.200] process but I think our foundation we
[02:32:40.000] want to be like okay well bring us in as
[02:32:42.880] a think tank if you know based on my
[02:32:45.640] experience and experience of my
[02:32:46.920] colleagues like you have an issue with X
[02:32:48.760] well let's figure out how to
[02:32:50.640] roll this out and how to you know
[02:32:53.439] incentivize the National Science
[02:32:55.120] Foundation to look in this make this
[02:32:56.920] like you know it's dual use right you
[02:32:58.880] might um uh develop uh a unique uh
[02:33:04.399] scientific uh process that actually
[02:33:06.760] works well with nanobiology or something
[02:33:08.800] like that but also has dual use with
[02:33:11.359] UAP so there's parallel tracks I mean
[02:33:13.840] there's public Discovery there's like
[02:33:15.200] the Galileo project with Avy lobe right
[02:33:17.479] that they're trying to uh on their own
[02:33:20.439] collect techno signatures uh which is I
[02:33:23.240] applaud that I mean obviously the
[02:33:24.520] government knows a lot about that but we
[02:33:27.240] don't want to obviously rely on the US
[02:33:28.960] government to do all the work for us and
[02:33:31.439] also to be honest so I think having a
[02:33:34.840] parallel track and you know Galileo
[02:33:36.760] project Soul Foundation Ryan Graves has
[02:33:38.800] his own uh Foundation as well for pilots
[02:33:42.080] and people who have seen unique things
[02:33:44.840] to provide that data to people so I
[02:33:47.080] think you got to have those dual tracks
[02:33:48.800] and you know hopefully
[02:33:50.479] we can create a tsunami event where the
[02:33:52.120] US government its allies and maybe our
[02:33:54.680] adversaries uh but really if the US
[02:33:56.760] government doesn't get their uh house in
[02:33:59.560] order here I mean you could have a
[02:34:01.760] uncontrolled disclosure events such that
[02:34:05.000] either maybe the non-human intelligence
[02:34:06.520] is like yeah let's do it or what if one
[02:34:09.880] of our adversaries decides to disclose
[02:34:12.800] and they become the Messiah figure on
[02:34:15.359] this and we lose sovereignty or national
[02:34:17.960] Supremacy in in that regard
[02:34:20.240] from an open and honest Civil Society
[02:34:22.359] perspective so I but I think the
[02:34:25.000] governments were getting close I think
[02:34:27.560] um as longly closer than we've ever been
[02:34:29.720] before just the fact that they brought
[02:34:32.240] you in to have these
[02:34:35.040] conversations yeah no I'm I'm still
[02:34:37.319] advising the US government on this and
[02:34:39.920] and and I'm trying to carefully message
[02:34:42.200] this put all the broad things on the
[02:34:45.200] table and I'm not trying to be koi I'm
[02:34:47.600] not trying to be Conceal anything but
[02:34:49.080] it's like there real National Security
[02:34:50.920] and collateral damage uh with just
[02:34:53.560] releasing this willy-nilly and I'm just
[02:34:55.760] trying to get the government to get a
[02:34:57.120] plan together here and and just be open
[02:34:59.960] and honest with the people of the world
[02:35:01.359] really so and there's still the
[02:35:03.200] bottleneck with these military
[02:35:05.040] contractors that allegedly have access
[02:35:07.240] to these things yeah and like to to
[02:35:09.359] those guys and I know some of them um
[02:35:12.120] and the individuals that hold the
[02:35:14.760] keys like this is a boon like this is
[02:35:17.120] don't look at it like um you're going to
[02:35:18.960] lose money you this is a recruiting
[02:35:22.160] opportunity yes you're going to have to
[02:35:24.160] let other people in the cookie jar
[02:35:26.200] that's how a fair and free Society works
[02:35:28.240] and they should be able to compete for
[02:35:29.560] work and because that was one of the
[02:35:31.560] main I talked to some individuals that
[02:35:33.520] were in an informal session for a
[02:35:35.120] previous administration on should we
[02:35:36.960] disclose or not for a c former president
[02:35:39.399] and um really insightful what they told
[02:35:41.960] me and and one of the biggest impasses
[02:35:44.800] to disclosure wasn't the ontological
[02:35:47.160] shock from a socieconomic or theological
[02:35:49.240] perspective it was well there's some
[02:35:51.720] white color crime we violated the
[02:35:53.680] federal acquisition regulations we Soul
[02:35:55.920] sourced this work to some big companies
[02:35:57.960] for decades contractors are going to
[02:36:00.840] litigate this to the Supreme Court
[02:36:02.680] saying they lost billions of projected
[02:36:04.840] income because they didn't get the bid
[02:36:06.439] on the work and it's going to be this
[02:36:09.399] like liability disaster for the US
[02:36:12.240] government and and the problem with that
[02:36:13.920] is is like I understand that but like
[02:36:16.200] that's why you need to have a Truth and
[02:36:17.439] Reconciliation process it's almost like
[02:36:19.359] a
[02:36:20.120] The Truth and Reconciliation Commission
[02:36:21.960] and postapartheid South Africa where
[02:36:24.720] people who committed like murder came in
[02:36:26.960] and was like this is what happened here
[02:36:29.240] you go and you know they don't get
[02:36:30.920] convicted of those crimes and I'm not
[02:36:32.399] say I mean people who've committed
[02:36:33.560] murder as it relates to the subject okay
[02:36:35.680] we should probably hold them accountable
[02:36:37.600] but for some of this stuff there needs
[02:36:39.520] to be a process where we kind of
[02:36:41.319] mitigate some of those uh unfortunate
[02:36:44.279] legal issues but that was one of the
[02:36:46.760] main issues a certain group for a
[02:36:50.160] reasonably recent
[02:36:51.640] Administration came up with and advised
[02:36:54.439] that President hey look there's going to
[02:36:56.439] be a lot of supreme court stuff let's
[02:36:58.080] not be that be that guy so it's like the
[02:37:01.399] like that's the barrier that's the
[02:37:03.080] reason come on well so ridiculous it
[02:37:06.319] makes sense though that they would think
[02:37:07.960] that way because I do believe that
[02:37:09.399] lawsuits would emerge from something
[02:37:11.000] like that oh certainly and it it's and
[02:37:13.359] also it's like uh the government
[02:37:15.160] admitting that we can't protect its
[02:37:16.680] citizenry you know uh you know these non
[02:37:19.600] human intelligence you know want to do
[02:37:21.720] something to you sorry we don't have any
[02:37:23.399] countermeasures to that you know it's
[02:37:24.920] like this you know there's a social
[02:37:26.240] contract between the citizens and the
[02:37:27.840] government we can protect you Etc and
[02:37:30.880] like in this case it's like it's an
[02:37:33.080] enigma but I think this is almost like
[02:37:35.000] uh you remember like after 911 I was in
[02:37:37.240] high school and 911 happened and you
[02:37:39.200] know people were afraid of dirty bombs
[02:37:41.279] terrorists we didn't we didn't know what
[02:37:42.800] was going to happen next we lived in
[02:37:44.359] fear but like you know we banded
[02:37:46.600] together in the presence of fear and
[02:37:49.640] hension and unknowing what the world was
[02:37:52.080] going to be and we made made it through
[02:37:54.640] it now I mean that's a course analogy to
[02:37:56.359] this but
[02:37:57.359] I uh people just have to think in that
[02:38:00.080] mindset like it's going to be a little
[02:38:01.439] scary it's not going to be like Kumbaya
[02:38:03.439] let's let's uh move the [ __ ] to the
[02:38:05.040] masoni and check it out it's going to be
[02:38:06.880] there's some you know awkward and uh
[02:38:10.960] things we're going to have to address
[02:38:12.240] sociologically I guess are you
[02:38:14.080] optimistic about how all this lays
[02:38:17.200] out I am I mean it's kind of like when I
[02:38:21.080] was testifying in the public hearing
[02:38:23.240] oddly bipartisan in a good way I had AOC
[02:38:26.000] and Matt Gates like agreeing on
[02:38:27.720] something and they were like smiling at
[02:38:29.200] each other like okay crazy this is crazy
[02:38:31.479] you know I'm like look at there's AOC
[02:38:33.600] there's Matt Gates there's Timber shett
[02:38:35.399] I mean there's like people uh Garcia
[02:38:37.200] like people that wouldn't see eye to eye
[02:38:38.600] on most subject it's such a human issue
[02:38:40.439] because they they want to know the truth
[02:38:41.840] too and I don't think the the leaders in
[02:38:45.200] Congress want to be told that they're
[02:38:47.600] second class citizens I mean a lot of
[02:38:49.200] presid presidents weren't brief to
[02:38:50.319] everything some presidents knew a lot
[02:38:52.080] more than others and I have a pretty
[02:38:53.880] good beat on that and it's like wait the
[02:38:56.560] chief executive that also forms foreign
[02:38:59.560] policy you don't tell them about a
[02:39:01.880] ostensibly a foreign element so how do
[02:39:03.760] they as chief of state how do they form
[02:39:07.120] foreign policy when you don't fully
[02:39:08.479] brief them on a foreign element it's
[02:39:10.720] like classifying the existence of
[02:39:12.720] Russia right right so you're
[02:39:15.840] actually you know non-constitutional by
[02:39:18.840] not allowing our commander-in-chief all
[02:39:21.920] information sometimes you know and I
[02:39:24.600] don't know what Harry Reid talked to Joe
[02:39:27.080] Biden I mean it was certainly the
[02:39:28.359] substance that I I mentioned here uh and
[02:39:31.240] I I hope that Joe Biden has been briefed
[02:39:33.800] on the program so to speak uh at least
[02:39:36.920] I'm I'm giving him an oral unclassified
[02:39:38.720] briefing right now I guess if he hasn't
[02:39:40.319] been in you know I'm happy to you know
[02:39:42.920] talk to Jake Sullivan or ail Haynes and
[02:39:45.399] ail Haynes if she's not briefed like
[02:39:48.200] she's supposed to be briefed all
[02:39:49.640] intelligence in the country it's 50 US
[02:39:51.920] code section 3024 you the director now
[02:39:56.040] National Intelligence has allowed
[02:39:57.479] everything from all federal agencies
[02:39:59.000] that's Intel related Well ma'am if you
[02:40:01.720] don't know what I'm talking about we
[02:40:03.200] have a problem because you're not being
[02:40:05.760] briefed by CIA director and some other
[02:40:09.760] agencies
[02:40:11.240] so well listen David I really appreciate
[02:40:14.800] what you've done um I think you've done
[02:40:17.920] a great service to humanity just by
[02:40:22.240] taking a stand and and communicating
[02:40:24.640] these ideas and and letting people know
[02:40:27.120] how much of this is real and you know
[02:40:30.359] you've opened up a world of discourse
[02:40:33.200] that probably would not have existed if
[02:40:35.040] you hadn't done that thanks yeah I mean
[02:40:37.319] this was not easy I'm sure so I
[02:40:39.600] appreciate it thank you very much for
[02:40:40.960] being here and uh good luck in the
[02:40:43.479] future thank you thank you all right bye
[02:40:45.319] everybody
[02:40:50.230] [Music]
[02:40:50.330] [Applause]
[02:40:54.920] [Music]