Joe Rogan Experience #1315 — Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell, Jun 21, 2019

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/BEWz4SXfyCQ
• Extraction: youtube_transcript.py (timestamps), 2026-05-28
• Significance: The 66M-view appearance that re-launched Lazar. Relevant to ../../topics/bob-lazar and ../../sources/corbell-career-and-claims.

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[00:00:00.719] two one boom and we're live first of all
[00:00:03.439] cheers gentlemen let's have a little
[00:00:05.920] toast relax bob thank you very much for
[00:00:08.480] doing this i really appreciate it i
[00:00:09.760] understand
[00:00:10.880] that you've told this story many many
[00:00:13.280] times you've been grilled many many
[00:00:15.440] times and it's very stressful for you so
[00:00:17.279] i really really appreciate your time
[00:00:19.600] for people who don't know the story
[00:00:22.080] there is a documentary
[00:00:24.400] jeremy corbell has a documentary out
[00:00:26.880] right now it's called bob lazar area 51
[00:00:30.000] and ufos and flying saucers and flying
[00:00:32.320] saucers bombs are air 51 and flying okay
[00:00:35.520] um
[00:00:36.480] i first heard your story decades ago
[00:00:39.120] i've i told you last night we went out
[00:00:40.879] to dinner i've seen pretty much every
[00:00:43.040] interview you've ever given i've
[00:00:44.559] followed the story incredibly closely
[00:00:46.879] but for people who don't know the story
[00:00:48.960] let's give them the bullet points you
[00:00:53.280] used to work
[00:00:54.719] at area 51 in area 51 you got you you
[00:00:58.800] went like
[00:00:59.920] well you know we want to be accurate
[00:01:01.359] okay area s4 s4 okay it's about 15 miles
[00:01:04.720] south of area 51. okay
[00:01:07.119] um
[00:01:08.080] you
[00:01:08.960] worked
[00:01:10.479] in
[00:01:11.280] what would you how would you describe it
[00:01:13.360] i i guess
[00:01:14.560] within the area 51 compound you can call
[00:01:17.520] that a subset of area 51.
[00:01:19.920] and you got that job before that you
[00:01:22.159] were working
[00:01:23.759] before that i had worked at los alamos
[00:01:25.920] right national labs in new mexico and
[00:01:28.479] you were involved in what kind of work
[00:01:30.640] nuclear weapon development physics i
[00:01:32.640] mean that's they do everything there so
[00:01:35.439] how do they approach you
[00:01:37.119] to say hey bob once you come on out to
[00:01:39.280] the nevada desert
[00:01:42.320] well the way this went down was
[00:01:45.200] um
[00:01:47.119] at that time it was 1982
[00:01:49.920] i
[00:01:51.600] had put
[00:01:52.720] a jet engine in my my honda
[00:01:56.720] and los alamos put it on the front page
[00:01:59.600] of the paper
[00:02:01.119] said you know uh
[00:02:02.880] los alamos man physicist at the lab you
[00:02:05.280] know
[00:02:06.159] built this 200 mile an hour you know on
[00:02:08.720] the jet car that i drove to work every
[00:02:11.120] day
[00:02:11.920] so uh so i was known in los alamos the
[00:02:15.120] guy with the weird car and you know you
[00:02:16.720] could hear it from you know a mile away
[00:02:19.440] anyway
[00:02:21.760] the day that came out on the front page
[00:02:23.520] of the paper
[00:02:24.640] was the day edward teller the father of
[00:02:26.879] the hydrogen bomb was giving
[00:02:28.959] a lecture
[00:02:30.160] down there at the lab
[00:02:32.080] and we didn't have much going on that
[00:02:34.080] day in our group and i asked if i could
[00:02:36.239] go down there
[00:02:38.000] and
[00:02:39.920] i went down there early and ed teller
[00:02:42.560] was outside
[00:02:44.239] leaning on a brick wall there and
[00:02:46.319] reading the front page of the paper now
[00:02:48.480] there's a guy out of history so i
[00:02:50.000] introduced myself hey i'm the guy you're
[00:02:52.239] reading about there and we talked for a
[00:02:53.599] little while and it was cool
[00:02:55.519] uh you know fast forward to years later
[00:02:57.519] i had moved out to las vegas
[00:02:59.680] and had you know left los alamos and
[00:03:02.720] you know went on to other things and i
[00:03:04.239] wanted to get back into the scientific
[00:03:05.840] community yeah i left start other
[00:03:08.000] businesses and
[00:03:09.760] and that sort of thing so i sent resumes
[00:03:12.480] out and one of them went out to ed
[00:03:13.760] teller and referenced our meeting
[00:03:17.200] you know back back in that the day
[00:03:19.519] and uh anyway he remembered me
[00:03:22.480] and
[00:03:23.280] gave me a reference somebody to contact
[00:03:25.280] at egng
[00:03:26.800] and that's pretty much how it started
[00:03:29.920] so
[00:03:30.879] you get a phone call or a letter like
[00:03:33.519] what do you get
[00:03:36.159] well i got a
[00:03:38.000] what did i get i got a letter initially
[00:03:41.360] and um went down for an interview
[00:03:43.519] probably a couple times and it was down
[00:03:45.280] at eg g special projects which was um
[00:03:48.959] at mccarran airport at that time out in
[00:03:50.959] las vegas and did they give you any sort
[00:03:53.040] of job description of what you were
[00:03:54.879] applying for um they said it was for ed
[00:03:59.200] i can't remember exactly what they did
[00:04:00.959] this was a long time ago but i i think
[00:04:03.120] it was um
[00:04:04.799] advanced propulsion or something like
[00:04:06.720] that something relatively generic and
[00:04:08.720] they said it's in a remote area
[00:04:11.120] um
[00:04:12.000] you know it's gonna be some days on some
[00:04:14.080] days off and um
[00:04:16.720] you know it was kind of a
[00:04:18.880] it was kind of uh not exactly a
[00:04:21.280] full-time job but you might have to be
[00:04:22.960] out there for two weeks at a time and
[00:04:25.120] take two weeks off so it was kind of uh
[00:04:27.759] the work schedule would be kind of
[00:04:29.040] broken up
[00:04:30.240] and did this seem attractive to you or
[00:04:32.560] did it seem weird
[00:04:34.400] no it really wasn't weird because people
[00:04:36.400] that work at the test site anybody
[00:04:37.840] that's familiar with the area up there
[00:04:39.840] um you know working at the nuclear test
[00:04:41.919] site uh or at the tonopod test range
[00:04:44.720] north of there uh that's typically how
[00:04:47.360] things go so you had known about it from
[00:04:49.840] the scientific community because the
[00:04:51.680] area 51 at that time was no they didn't
[00:04:53.680] say anything about area 51. okay so they
[00:04:55.919] just said it was in a you know in a
[00:04:57.840] remote location and you just know it was
[00:05:00.000] up at the test site right so but there
[00:05:02.479] was no mention of area 51 at that time
[00:05:04.320] so they've done
[00:05:05.520] hundreds of nuclear tests in nevada and
[00:05:08.160] nevada that whole area was there's been
[00:05:10.720] there's giant chunks of nevada the
[00:05:12.400] people yeah there's a big piece of
[00:05:14.240] nevada and it's split up into different
[00:05:16.080] areas there's a nuclear test site
[00:05:17.759] there's area 51 there's the tonopod test
[00:05:20.560] range north of that there's little
[00:05:22.000] sub-areas there's areas where they test
[00:05:23.840] chemical weapons and things like that so
[00:05:25.680] it's all broken up as a you know
[00:05:27.520] gigantic test area so take me back to
[00:05:29.600] first day on the job
[00:05:31.840] you accept a job
[00:05:33.360] they take you out there
[00:05:34.960] yeah
[00:05:36.000] it's um
[00:05:39.520] the first day really i didn't really get
[00:05:41.199] to see a whole lot the first day was
[00:05:42.800] essentially just paperwork that's when i
[00:05:44.560] flew into area 51 proper
[00:05:47.039] and i left mccarran airport
[00:05:50.400] and flew what they call the janet
[00:05:51.919] flights
[00:05:52.880] just um
[00:05:54.800] you know a passenger plane from las
[00:05:56.960] vegas to area 51
[00:05:59.280] and it was really just going through
[00:06:02.240] a mountain of paperwork that day
[00:06:05.280] from security clearances to um
[00:06:08.720] god there was
[00:06:09.759] it was like two or three hours of just
[00:06:11.520] solid paperwork and that was that was
[00:06:13.520] really an uneventful first day
[00:06:16.560] when did things get weird
[00:06:21.039] when did you realize that at what point
[00:06:23.360] in time did you say hey
[00:06:25.759] this is not
[00:06:27.120] normal work like this doesn't even seem
[00:06:30.000] like it's from this planet
[00:06:32.880] that i can't tell you what day that
[00:06:34.639] occurred on because so much time has
[00:06:36.319] gone by
[00:06:37.440] the days have kind of fused into one and
[00:06:39.840] i can't separate the days was it a slow
[00:06:42.160] burn or was there a moment of
[00:06:44.000] recognition
[00:06:45.440] well the
[00:06:47.600] the first inkling i had was when i i
[00:06:50.319] came in normal there's this facility
[00:06:52.000] that is at s4
[00:06:54.080] it's in the side of a mountain
[00:06:56.479] and
[00:06:57.680] normally we had pulled in with the bus
[00:07:00.720] and gone around the front through a
[00:07:02.080] normal double door
[00:07:04.720] this time that i went in there were
[00:07:06.160] hangar doors open
[00:07:08.160] i went into the hangar door and in the
[00:07:10.160] hangar door was the disc the flying
[00:07:12.560] saucer that i worked on
[00:07:14.560] i saw it sitting there and we walked by
[00:07:16.960] it had a little american flag stuck on
[00:07:18.960] the side and i thought oh my god this
[00:07:21.440] finally explains all the flying saucer
[00:07:23.360] stories this is just an advanced fighter
[00:07:25.360] and it this is [ __ ] hilarious right
[00:07:28.160] so i went by i slid my hand alongside it
[00:07:31.039] i got reprimanded immediately for
[00:07:32.639] touching the thing
[00:07:34.080] and uh there was a guy an armed guard
[00:07:35.919] that followed us in and just said keep
[00:07:37.280] your eyes at forward and your hands at
[00:07:39.440] your side and just walk in the door so
[00:07:41.919] that was the first time i had seen
[00:07:44.080] anything that was weird
[00:07:47.199] it was some time later that i was
[00:07:49.360] introduced to my um
[00:07:51.520] my lab partner barry
[00:07:53.919] and we had some of the subcomponents of
[00:07:55.840] the craft
[00:07:57.440] in the lab
[00:07:58.560] and barry was very anxious to get a new
[00:08:01.360] lab partner so he was very talkative and
[00:08:03.520] couldn't wait to show me different
[00:08:04.800] things and it was in the demonstration
[00:08:07.440] of the reactor working where it caught
[00:08:10.160] my attention to where
[00:08:13.280] this is technology that doesn't even
[00:08:15.120] exist
[00:08:17.520] so i mean that was the first time i knew
[00:08:19.599] that this is
[00:08:20.720] really something different what was it
[00:08:23.599] what was it what was a
[00:08:25.280] what was it about this reactor that made
[00:08:28.800] you think that it didn't exist
[00:08:32.159] technologically well it was the i
[00:08:34.399] actually have to back up because there
[00:08:35.680] were some briefings that i read it
[00:08:37.279] before that
[00:08:38.839] that
[00:08:40.640] you know certainly gave me the
[00:08:42.560] impression that this was going to be a
[00:08:44.000] weird job but this was the first
[00:08:45.519] hands-on thing
[00:08:47.040] this was a small reactor about the size
[00:08:49.120] of a hemisphere about the size of a
[00:08:51.040] basketball
[00:08:52.240] on a metal plate and when it was running
[00:08:55.839] it produced a gravitational field a
[00:08:57.760] gravitational field of its own now this
[00:08:59.519] is something that we can't do we can't
[00:09:01.600] produce any gravity the only way we get
[00:09:04.720] gravity is from large quantities of mass
[00:09:07.360] but there's no machine we can have that
[00:09:09.279] turns on that makes gravity like
[00:09:11.600] you know you can turn on an
[00:09:12.480] electromagnet and it makes a magnetic
[00:09:14.720] field we can't make a gravitational
[00:09:16.560] field anyway this device was producing
[00:09:19.120] that and barry said
[00:09:21.839] almost like he was bragging go ahead try
[00:09:23.920] and try and touch the sphere and i i
[00:09:26.080] couldn't it would it pushed my hands
[00:09:27.760] away just like two like poles of a
[00:09:29.440] magnet so that was uh so like when you
[00:09:31.440] take two magnets and try to press them
[00:09:32.720] together yeah you have this each other
[00:09:34.560] yeah kind of cushion feeling but you
[00:09:36.800] can't you can't get them together the
[00:09:38.399] closer you put them the more they push
[00:09:39.839] but then you felt that physically with
[00:09:41.120] my hand yeah now there's nothing there's
[00:09:43.120] nothing that does that
[00:09:44.720] and that immediately caught my attention
[00:09:46.640] going wow this is something else what
[00:09:49.440] was your thought like when you felt that
[00:09:51.600] and you knew that there was nothing that
[00:09:53.680] you were aware of that could produce
[00:09:55.920] that connected me to the briefings that
[00:09:57.760] i read
[00:09:59.120] on the the first day at s4 was that uh
[00:10:02.959] you know everything that i had read was
[00:10:04.800] apparently accurate
[00:10:06.560] what were you reading
[00:10:08.000] i read it was kind of an overview
[00:10:11.200] this project
[00:10:12.640] was to back engineer
[00:10:15.040] the alien craft and
[00:10:17.600] specifically it was to try and back
[00:10:20.000] engineer and see if we can duplicate the
[00:10:22.000] technology with available materials
[00:10:26.160] now to do this they split the project
[00:10:28.640] into
[00:10:29.839] you know many different pieces for
[00:10:31.920] several reasons they do this on all
[00:10:33.519] classified projects so uh nobody has the
[00:10:36.560] complete story but uh they
[00:10:38.560] compartmentalize everything now we had
[00:10:40.720] the power and propulsion system so what
[00:10:43.040] the briefings they gave me were like a
[00:10:44.880] one or two page overview of some of the
[00:10:46.959] other projects that were going on you
[00:10:49.279] know on the craft the only reason they
[00:10:51.360] do that is just in case what you're
[00:10:53.440] working on is connected intimately in
[00:10:55.760] some way that we don't know of to one of
[00:10:57.360] the other projects you have to know
[00:10:58.640] there excuse me their existence so
[00:11:02.160] um
[00:11:03.920] you know i but
[00:11:05.279] again everything from metallurgy to
[00:11:08.399] um you know weapon potential the craft
[00:11:11.120] and these were all you know essentially
[00:11:13.920] very short briefings but mine was just
[00:11:16.399] power and propulsion and
[00:11:19.120] it made it very clear that what i read
[00:11:21.760] was accurate
[00:11:23.200] so when you're reading that before you
[00:11:25.279] actually saw the reactor
[00:11:28.000] what were your thoughts on what they
[00:11:29.279] were describing
[00:11:32.560] if you knew that something like that
[00:11:33.920] didn't exist
[00:11:35.680] and they're describing it in the
[00:11:36.640] briefings
[00:11:38.079] what did you think you were going to see
[00:11:40.000] i really i i didn't know at the time i
[00:11:42.480] mean i was reading i thought is this
[00:11:44.079] just some kind of test
[00:11:45.920] um
[00:11:46.720] see if you're crazy well not to see if
[00:11:48.560] i'm crazy to
[00:11:50.000] you know a lot of times they'll take in
[00:11:51.839] real high security
[00:11:53.920] uh
[00:11:54.720] jobs i mean they'll intentionally insert
[00:11:57.360] nonsense into them um whether it's to
[00:12:00.000] confuse the fact or if for someone was
[00:12:02.320] to leak it out
[00:12:03.680] they would carry that information along
[00:12:05.519] and know where it came from so
[00:12:07.440] i
[00:12:08.399] read through the documents but you know
[00:12:10.880] i didn't know if this was you know part
[00:12:12.880] of some kind of test or um
[00:12:16.320] you know or what or was it potentially
[00:12:18.320] realistic i mean i really didn't
[00:12:20.000] consider it being
[00:12:22.160] all that possible as far as being uh
[00:12:25.519] the actual thing that i was going to
[00:12:27.120] work on at the time how did they turn it
[00:12:29.279] on
[00:12:30.480] the the reactor yeah the reactor can be
[00:12:32.959] turned on or turned off in a lot of
[00:12:34.720] different ways um the way barry showed
[00:12:37.279] me at the hemisphere is removed
[00:12:40.399] there's a small tower in the middle when
[00:12:42.079] you put the hemisphere on the reactor
[00:12:44.160] activates
[00:12:45.440] the reactor shuts down it's it's load
[00:12:48.399] sensing so if there's if there's no load
[00:12:51.680] on the reactor at all it shuts down when
[00:12:53.680] there's a load present on it it starts
[00:12:56.320] up again load meaning
[00:12:58.720] you can consider it an electrical load
[00:13:01.279] so
[00:13:02.959] although it doesn't necessarily operate
[00:13:06.079] electrically there's no wiring that
[00:13:08.240] connects any of the sub components
[00:13:10.000] together whatsoever they just have to be
[00:13:11.680] in the immediate vicinity it's uh
[00:13:14.720] it is but the stuff is borderline magic
[00:13:18.000] and that's essentially where we left it
[00:13:20.720] you know when i left the project
[00:13:23.040] so there was no progress made
[00:13:25.760] there was some progress i mean we did
[00:13:27.360] identify at least we think some
[00:13:29.279] processes and
[00:13:30.720] and had a rough idea we think of what
[00:13:33.040] was going on but
[00:13:35.200] i think this is a problem
[00:13:37.200] that they've had for a long time
[00:13:39.600] and um
[00:13:40.959] you know i was replacing somebody
[00:13:43.519] that barry worked with prior to me and i
[00:13:45.600] think there was some horrific accident
[00:13:47.680] that i didn't have a whole lot of
[00:13:49.440] information on but you know barry
[00:13:51.360] alluded to that
[00:13:53.040] horrific accident like where someone
[00:13:54.880] died or yeah where somebody died because
[00:13:57.440] they were trying to tamper with things
[00:13:59.120] or figure out how something worked yeah
[00:14:01.440] the reactor in particular
[00:14:03.440] but yeti let you touch it
[00:14:05.920] yeah i think what they were trying to do
[00:14:07.760] was cut into one now they had they had
[00:14:10.639] more than one there and they that was
[00:14:12.399] supposedly there was an unannounced
[00:14:14.160] nuclear test
[00:14:15.680] and
[00:14:16.480] that's what it was at the time remember
[00:14:18.560] they would still do an underground
[00:14:19.680] nuclear test at the test site um but
[00:14:22.800] from what i understand according to
[00:14:24.639] barry there was an attempt made now this
[00:14:26.800] must have been a pretty desperate intent
[00:14:28.399] because it's not a very scientific
[00:14:30.800] process to cut you know analyze
[00:14:32.959] something that way but it looked like
[00:14:34.639] they used a plasma cutter or something
[00:14:36.240] like that to cut into an
[00:14:38.160] operating reactor how many of these
[00:14:40.000] things did they have they had nine nine
[00:14:42.480] craft altogether i only got hands on
[00:14:45.040] with one of them so i can't really
[00:14:47.920] say what the how the others operated did
[00:14:50.000] you see the other ones yeah at one time
[00:14:52.399] and only one time the bay doors that
[00:14:54.720] between the hangers were all open and i
[00:14:57.120] could see all the way through
[00:14:59.680] and
[00:15:00.639] were they all exactly the same no they
[00:15:02.480] were all different different shapes yeah
[00:15:05.279] but they were all from somewhere else
[00:15:07.680] yeah absolutely
[00:15:09.360] now
[00:15:10.240] did anyone make any attempt to explain
[00:15:13.519] or to
[00:15:14.800] to tell you where they came from no no
[00:15:17.839] no one is the least bit interested in
[00:15:19.839] letting everybody know
[00:15:21.519] all the facts they want to give you the
[00:15:23.120] minimum information that's necessary to
[00:15:25.199] complete your task so
[00:15:27.040] you're not getting the story of where
[00:15:28.399] they came from you're not getting the
[00:15:30.560] story of what how much progress other
[00:15:32.560] people are making you just focus on
[00:15:35.360] the small component but they gave you
[00:15:37.279] some indication that they've been
[00:15:38.480] working on these for a while yeah
[00:15:41.279] when do you think they
[00:15:43.199] acquired these
[00:15:45.040] i really couldn't say
[00:15:47.279] i think they've been around for a while
[00:15:50.560] so
[00:15:51.360] they bring you into this room you
[00:15:54.399] see this reactor working you you realize
[00:15:57.279] this is nothing that as far as like the
[00:15:59.440] scientific community at current time
[00:16:02.320] has the ability to create
[00:16:05.040] we still don't
[00:16:06.399] what is your life like from that moment
[00:16:08.399] on is that where everything changes
[00:16:09.839] because you do you i mean i would
[00:16:11.759] imagine the moment you actually make
[00:16:13.920] contact with something that's
[00:16:15.920] extraterrestrial whether it's an object
[00:16:17.519] or a being something where you can
[00:16:19.279] actually absolutely be certain it's not
[00:16:22.000] from here
[00:16:23.199] your whole paradigm the whole world you
[00:16:26.240] live in is now a different place well
[00:16:28.320] this is the only time it became exciting
[00:16:31.199] you know the rest of the time the it was
[00:16:33.199] really
[00:16:34.480] an ominous feeling being at work but it
[00:16:37.040] at that time
[00:16:38.399] it was exciting i mean this was now i
[00:16:41.279] knew we were on the absolute be actually
[00:16:43.680] beyond the cutting edge of science and i
[00:16:45.839] was
[00:16:46.880] i was so absolutely excited to be there
[00:16:49.759] every single time i was um
[00:16:52.720] you know it would this was a fantastic
[00:16:54.800] opportunity and
[00:16:58.000] however
[00:17:00.320] in short order it began to concern me we
[00:17:04.400] really have no idea what we're talking
[00:17:06.720] about
[00:17:07.839] and
[00:17:09.679] the excitement kind of turned to dread
[00:17:12.559] at some point
[00:17:14.000] because the amount of power we're
[00:17:16.319] dealing with is astronomical i mean to
[00:17:19.839] affect gravity to produce the effects
[00:17:22.480] like this equipment does takes huge
[00:17:25.360] amounts of power and i've given the
[00:17:29.120] example before of
[00:17:30.799] you know taking a small portable nuclear
[00:17:32.880] reactor and you know putting it back
[00:17:34.880] into victorian times you know with the
[00:17:36.799] scientists of the time and just dropping
[00:17:39.520] it in a room and they come and look at
[00:17:41.600] it and see that it's producing power
[00:17:43.919] and wonder how it works so they start
[00:17:45.679] taking it apart
[00:17:47.200] and
[00:17:48.240] as soon as they get some of the
[00:17:49.440] shielding off the people are going to
[00:17:50.960] drop dead because of the radiation
[00:17:52.559] inside
[00:17:53.600] now the people have no idea that
[00:17:56.400] radiation even exists back then
[00:17:58.720] but anybody that comes in to check on
[00:18:00.400] him will also drop dead and
[00:18:03.360] you know
[00:18:04.640] there's no reason that that exact
[00:18:06.559] scenario couldn't happen with what we're
[00:18:08.960] dealing with we have no idea how the
[00:18:11.760] physics operate within this thing the
[00:18:14.480] power levels are are like i said
[00:18:16.480] astronomic like it's incredibly
[00:18:18.559] dangerous to tinker with something like
[00:18:20.400] that
[00:18:21.200] and you know in some respects we were
[00:18:23.679] guinea pigs just try to find out how to
[00:18:25.520] make this thing so they had a series
[00:18:28.400] as far as you're
[00:18:29.919] surmised that a series of different
[00:18:31.919] scientists try to back engineer this
[00:18:33.760] thing try to figure out what this thing
[00:18:35.280] was and they would bring in new people
[00:18:36.960] and like let's throw bob at it yeah yeah
[00:18:39.679] and they i know i don't know how many
[00:18:41.280] but i knew there was certainly one
[00:18:42.880] before me and i knew he died
[00:18:45.679] during the analysis of the or the
[00:18:47.679] reactor itself and
[00:18:51.120] you don't know how many have worked on
[00:18:53.440] it and no one
[00:18:54.880] gave this could have been there for
[00:18:56.960] 50 years it could have been there for
[00:18:58.559] five years when they're giving you
[00:18:59.919] instructions what are they saying like
[00:19:02.080] when they're giving you direction
[00:19:03.039] they're showing you all the stuff like
[00:19:04.240] what what are they saying what
[00:19:05.919] specifically what are they asking of you
[00:19:08.240] well essentially what they ask is is
[00:19:10.559] what i said all we are just to gather as
[00:19:12.640] much information as possible find out
[00:19:14.480] how it operates and see if we can
[00:19:16.000] duplicate it so but they always realize
[00:19:18.080] you where it was from they never let you
[00:19:20.799] ask questions about where it's from well
[00:19:24.080] if
[00:19:25.039] the information i read in the briefings
[00:19:26.799] was accurate now what i do have to say
[00:19:29.120] is
[00:19:29.840] the information that pertained directly
[00:19:32.160] to the reactor
[00:19:33.760] was accurate what i read
[00:19:36.960] did
[00:19:38.480] i mean did jive with reality um in terms
[00:19:41.679] of how
[00:19:42.960] in terms of how it was made how what we
[00:19:45.280] saw how it operated the materials how it
[00:19:48.480] you know turned on and what was
[00:19:50.240] discovered uh
[00:19:52.559] discovered about it
[00:19:54.160] i'm sorry the migraine is really making
[00:19:56.080] it hard for me to thank you sorry no
[00:19:58.320] we talked that before the podcast you
[00:20:00.000] tell her buddy bob is getting a migraine
[00:20:01.440] i know you're very stressed out by this
[00:20:02.880] which is one of the reasons why i
[00:20:03.919] appreciate you doing this
[00:20:05.360] um
[00:20:07.120] where was i already we were talking oh
[00:20:08.720] right yeah explained it
[00:20:10.400] and uh
[00:20:11.919] so there was some paperwork that
[00:20:15.120] indicated that this was from the zeta
[00:20:17.280] reticuli star system now
[00:20:20.640] yeah now how they obtain that i haven't
[00:20:24.080] i haven't the slightest idea but it
[00:20:26.400] wasn't just from the zeta reticuli star
[00:20:28.159] system it was
[00:20:29.760] what they called zr3 so it was a third
[00:20:32.240] planet in that star system so
[00:20:35.679] there was no other information about it
[00:20:37.679] other than that supposedly where the
[00:20:39.760] craft came from now is that true i don't
[00:20:41.840] know i have no way of verifying that but
[00:20:43.280] that was printed in the same materials
[00:20:45.120] that referenced the reactor now i looked
[00:20:47.840] that stuff up when i went home
[00:20:50.159] and
[00:20:51.360] zeta reticular is a binary star
[00:20:54.720] two stars that orbit orbit one another
[00:20:56.960] and it's only visible in the southern
[00:20:58.320] hemisphere and it's about thirty some
[00:21:00.000] odd light years away so that's literally
[00:21:02.640] all the information i have about that i
[00:21:04.240] don't know how they found out it came
[00:21:06.480] from there and you also probably have
[00:21:08.400] some suspicions that they give you some
[00:21:10.720] disinformation like you were talking
[00:21:12.159] about before they would yeah yeah to
[00:21:15.600] i mean if you ever decided to talk about
[00:21:17.360] this they added a bunch of nonsense to
[00:21:19.039] make whatever is factual look ridiculous
[00:21:21.760] right or be able to trace it down like
[00:21:24.159] hey this facts came out and you know
[00:21:26.000] this lazar guy said it you know came
[00:21:28.080] from zeta reticulate so they knew it was
[00:21:30.480] when we read zeta reticulate we're like
[00:21:32.960] what in the [ __ ] is this well reading
[00:21:36.320] all of this stuff it was what in the
[00:21:37.919] [ __ ] is this you're like why did i sign
[00:21:39.679] up for this
[00:21:40.640] no no
[00:21:41.520] to me this was cool this is interesting
[00:21:43.600] i said i was just excited to be out in a
[00:21:45.760] secure area you know in the middle of
[00:21:47.520] the desert i said this is awesome how
[00:21:49.360] old are you
[00:21:50.720] i get as in my 20s
[00:21:53.200] yeah so you're probably
[00:21:54.720] totally geeked out oh yeah
[00:21:56.799] this was this was great i mean i i was
[00:21:59.440] excited so i didn't care
[00:22:01.200] reading through everything and so you
[00:22:02.799] read through all the zeta reticuli thing
[00:22:04.240] but then when you see the actual
[00:22:05.600] starship with the little american flag
[00:22:07.360] sticker on it well that was
[00:22:10.080] was that later or before
[00:22:12.960] that
[00:22:14.480] that was before so before so you see the
[00:22:17.120] thing before and you say oh this is
[00:22:18.799] where what's that before
[00:22:20.320] hard so many years yeah i can't
[00:22:22.960] either way it doesn't matter the days
[00:22:24.400] have fused together it's so hard to
[00:22:26.320] separate what happened in each visit do
[00:22:28.799] you remember the thought process when
[00:22:30.159] you read that it's from zeta reticuli
[00:22:32.400] yeah it it it it didn't hit me like a
[00:22:34.960] ton of bricks or anything it's just like
[00:22:37.039] yeah okay
[00:22:38.400] you think it was [ __ ] i don't know
[00:22:40.320] this is where i don't know now i don't i
[00:22:42.080] mean because when i read it i hadn't
[00:22:44.240] verified anything and this was just a
[00:22:45.840] bunch of stuff i was reading and i
[00:22:47.840] thought maybe after this they're just
[00:22:49.200] going to give me a test and see what i
[00:22:50.880] can remember in right crazy information
[00:22:53.520] and it would but
[00:22:55.760] like i said when i finally
[00:22:57.840] went in with barry
[00:22:59.360] um
[00:23:01.200] and had hands-on
[00:23:02.880] experience with what they were talking
[00:23:04.640] about
[00:23:05.679] it taught on a completely different
[00:23:07.280] meaning so there's a plate there's this
[00:23:09.760] thing that looks like a half a
[00:23:10.799] basketball and when it's on you can't
[00:23:12.960] come anywhere near it you can't touch it
[00:23:14.720] right how is
[00:23:16.559] what is
[00:23:17.679] gravity about that like the the concept
[00:23:20.000] of gravity to most people gravity is
[00:23:21.520] bringing something towards it right well
[00:23:22.960] i guess you would say it's anti-gravity
[00:23:25.120] it's gravity shifted 180 degrees it's uh
[00:23:28.240] you know
[00:23:29.840] anti-gravity
[00:23:31.200] and did they have any understanding
[00:23:34.320] about what could possibly create this
[00:23:36.720] effect
[00:23:38.000] did they have any
[00:23:39.440] areas where they'd like you to look into
[00:23:42.559] no they
[00:23:46.080] well
[00:23:47.280] they knew there was a fuel source in it
[00:23:50.080] and they were proficient
[00:23:52.080] at making it work
[00:23:53.919] and again my analogy to something like
[00:23:55.760] this is you can drop a motorcycle off in
[00:23:58.080] the wagon train days and just leave it
[00:23:59.840] with the keys parked outside you know
[00:24:01.919] somebody's place everybody will come
[00:24:04.000] around it and they'll poke and prod and
[00:24:05.679] eventually they'll turn the key get it
[00:24:07.679] to start and become proficient at
[00:24:09.840] writing it
[00:24:10.880] yeah but they won't be able to
[00:24:13.600] understand what the hell's going on they
[00:24:15.440] won't be able to make the plastic fender
[00:24:17.520] much less anything else and i think
[00:24:19.360] that's exactly the state we were at we
[00:24:21.760] played around with the parts long enough
[00:24:23.360] before i got there where they could make
[00:24:25.279] the reactor operate
[00:24:27.919] take the fuel out and know that it makes
[00:24:30.480] it work
[00:24:32.559] how exactly what was going on
[00:24:35.360] in the reactor
[00:24:36.960] remained a mystery at the time
[00:24:39.919] i think we made some progress on
[00:24:42.720] what was going on inside but i don't
[00:24:45.440] think anybody really knew anything they
[00:24:47.520] could just watch what was going on and
[00:24:49.600] make note of it how long were you there
[00:24:52.320] i'd say about six months or so and what
[00:24:54.720] what progress was made while you were
[00:24:56.559] there
[00:24:57.760] well we came up with a bunch of
[00:25:01.760] reasonably good ideas about how the
[00:25:03.760] reactor worked
[00:25:05.360] and one of them was the base the square
[00:25:08.080] base of it was essentially like a
[00:25:10.000] cyclotron which is a small particle
[00:25:11.840] accelerator a circular one particle
[00:25:14.640] accelerators linear particle
[00:25:16.159] accelerators are just a you know
[00:25:18.640] long tube essentially and they
[00:25:20.080] accelerate particles with high voltage
[00:25:21.760] and you know radio frequencies till they
[00:25:23.919] reach high speeds but a cyclotron does
[00:25:26.240] that in a smaller circular area and
[00:25:29.600] there is this
[00:25:31.360] very heavy element fuel element 115
[00:25:34.159] something that wasn't on our periodic
[00:25:35.760] charts
[00:25:36.720] at the time but it is now it is now yeah
[00:25:39.760] when did it become on the periodic table
[00:25:42.159] now the way the charts now you know i
[00:25:44.080] don't remember do you remember when they
[00:25:46.400] 2004
[00:25:47.919] durhamstat germany i think is where they
[00:25:49.840] first fabricated four atoms they lasted
[00:25:51.760] 220 milliseconds with the atoms it's
[00:25:54.080] nothing right and then it later was
[00:25:56.480] discovered a couple more times they
[00:25:57.760] could fabricate it then they gave it
[00:25:59.760] they gave it a place then on the
[00:26:01.520] periodic chart after that called it
[00:26:03.360] muscovium so they told you about this
[00:26:06.240] stuff in
[00:26:08.840] 1982 yeah well we can 82 what what year
[00:26:12.880] was this it was 88 and 89 when i was
[00:26:16.000] there 82 is one 82 was when you're in
[00:26:18.000] los alamos i'm sorry yeah so 88.89 they
[00:26:21.279] told you about this stuff so this was
[00:26:22.640] not like no they didn't they didn't tell
[00:26:24.400] me about it that's one of the things
[00:26:26.320] that this group came up with
[00:26:28.240] the um
[00:26:30.480] um
[00:26:31.679] i keep losing my train of thought with
[00:26:33.440] this thing
[00:26:34.480] so this one area this
[00:26:37.679] this element 115 was the fuel yeah it
[00:26:41.039] was the fuel um
[00:26:50.960] the the world will forgive you for
[00:26:52.480] having a migraine i can i just it's
[00:26:54.320] really hard to think throughout this
[00:26:55.600] case
[00:26:57.120] i just want to say one yeah definitely
[00:26:58.559] as i said one thing you know but for the
[00:27:00.880] last 30 years
[00:27:02.480] people have just been on the attack on
[00:27:04.159] bob you know getting to know him the
[00:27:05.919] personal effects on his life it's really
[00:27:08.240] hard to understand unless you meet his
[00:27:10.080] family and his wife
[00:27:11.600] i mean this is the last thing he wanted
[00:27:13.600] to [ __ ] do was have to talk yeah we
[00:27:16.000] should explain that jeremy you and i had
[00:27:17.840] this conversation i watched your
[00:27:19.120] documentary
[00:27:20.640] we had this conversation and i said i
[00:27:23.120] have to talk to him yeah the document
[00:27:25.200] there's there's been detractors there's
[00:27:27.840] been a bunch of people that called
[00:27:29.279] [ __ ] on many of the things that
[00:27:30.640] you've said but over time
[00:27:33.120] many of the things that you talked about
[00:27:35.760] even in the 80s have proven to be true
[00:27:38.640] things that people said were not true
[00:27:40.400] were proven to be true element 115 was
[00:27:42.960] one of them
[00:27:44.480] right right right
[00:27:46.559] element 115 the fuel they had was stable
[00:27:50.000] in other words it didn't decay it wasn't
[00:27:51.520] emitting radioactivity um when they
[00:27:54.399] synthesized the two or three atoms of
[00:27:57.520] the 115 uh it did decay
[00:28:00.320] and it was not a stable element so
[00:28:02.799] they're they're kind of two different
[00:28:04.000] things but this is kind of typical
[00:28:06.000] elements
[00:28:07.360] always have or pretty much always have
[00:28:09.600] uh stable isotopes and unstable isotopes
[00:28:12.480] like i think cesium has like
[00:28:14.880] 30 unstable isotopes to it so all right
[00:28:17.760] well hydrogen for example you're
[00:28:19.279] familiar with hydrogen gas
[00:28:22.399] it's stable it's not radioactive but
[00:28:24.559] there's also two other types of hydrogen
[00:28:28.000] deuterium and tritium and deuterium
[00:28:30.960] isn't radioactive it's another
[00:28:33.120] stable isotope hydrogen but tritium is
[00:28:35.440] radioactive now they're all hydrogen but
[00:28:38.080] they just have a different amounts of
[00:28:39.360] neutrons so it's the same thing with
[00:28:42.480] other elements n element 115. depending
[00:28:45.200] on the amount of neutrons it has
[00:28:48.640] designates the isotope but it's 115 they
[00:28:52.080] will continue to take
[00:28:55.520] or experiment and try and make 115 at
[00:28:58.640] different isotopes and i'm sure
[00:28:59.840] eventually they'll come up with a stable
[00:29:01.440] version but it's the stable version that
[00:29:04.000] has the properties that we're talking
[00:29:05.600] about so they somehow or another had
[00:29:08.559] acquired a stable version did they say
[00:29:10.480] that the stable version had come with
[00:29:12.000] this craft it absolutely came with the
[00:29:13.760] graft yeah so at the time you having a
[00:29:17.440] firm knowledge of the periodic chart and
[00:29:19.679] knowing what was real and what wasn't
[00:29:21.279] real what was your reaction to having
[00:29:23.679] this stable element 115 that wasn't even
[00:29:26.480] supposed to exist well everything was
[00:29:28.240] impossible right i mean down down to the
[00:29:30.880] metal i i did get a chance
[00:29:33.440] uh to look inside the craft on only one
[00:29:36.399] occasion and this was important because
[00:29:40.320] where the reactor sat
[00:29:42.240] might have been critical to how it
[00:29:43.840] operated since everything operates
[00:29:46.080] without any interconnection so the
[00:29:47.919] placement of components might be
[00:29:50.000] critical so they allowed me to go inside
[00:29:52.480] and and look at it
[00:29:55.120] um
[00:29:56.159] dude again i forgot where the hell i am
[00:29:58.080] so you're going into this craft and what
[00:30:00.880] are you thinking when you're inside of
[00:30:02.320] it like what are you seeing it's um
[00:30:05.840] it's a very ominous feeling because it's
[00:30:09.520] there are no at first of all everything
[00:30:11.600] is one color it's like a dark pewter
[00:30:13.600] color
[00:30:14.559] and there are no right angles anywhere
[00:30:17.919] it's as if somebody took uh i've said
[00:30:20.240] this before somebody took a a model out
[00:30:23.120] of
[00:30:23.760] and fashioned it out of wax and then
[00:30:26.000] heated it just for a short time so
[00:30:27.840] everything melted everything looks like
[00:30:29.520] it's fused together everything has a
[00:30:31.200] radius of curvature where two uh items
[00:30:34.640] meet it's uh it's a really weird looking
[00:30:37.919] thing
[00:30:38.960] but um
[00:30:41.279] uh
[00:30:42.640] there was almost nothing
[00:30:44.559] other than a small foldable hatchway
[00:30:47.840] that
[00:30:48.799] that looked recognizable everything was
[00:30:51.120] uh
[00:30:52.399] was really unworldly
[00:30:54.320] depicting it a way to describe it so you
[00:30:57.679] you get inside this thing and it's
[00:30:59.440] designed for something that's much
[00:31:01.039] smaller than a human being yeah you
[00:31:02.640] can't really stand up till you get to
[00:31:04.080] the very center of it and how tall are
[00:31:05.600] you
[00:31:06.320] i'm 5 10. and what do you think this was
[00:31:08.960] designed for i'd say something close to
[00:31:11.360] half my height wow
[00:31:13.600] so these little
[00:31:14.880] three foot tallish creatures
[00:31:16.960] yeah and the the seats were small too i
[00:31:19.360] mean obviously it was made you know for
[00:31:21.440] something something small but there's no
[00:31:25.360] like there's there's nothing else in
[00:31:27.520] there there's just seats the reactor and
[00:31:29.840] some of the sub components there's no
[00:31:31.600] there's no control panels there's no
[00:31:33.520] bathroom there's no
[00:31:35.200] no decorative uh components or artwork
[00:31:38.399] or anything that you would recognize or
[00:31:40.720] trim i mean it's just a very bare bones
[00:31:43.440] thing you're not seeing any screens
[00:31:46.960] well there are archways around it that
[00:31:49.519] are part of the superstructure
[00:31:51.440] and
[00:31:52.640] that one of the archways can become
[00:31:54.880] transparent
[00:31:56.559] when i was in there there was another
[00:31:58.159] group working on one of the archways and
[00:32:01.840] you could call that a screen more or
[00:32:04.000] less
[00:32:04.960] so through that archway it would be it
[00:32:07.600] would maintain the solidity the the
[00:32:10.640] solid
[00:32:11.760] whatever metal it was yeah but you could
[00:32:14.080] yeah it just became transparent yeah i
[00:32:16.799] saw that happen once or twice before i
[00:32:18.880] left did you ask any questions about
[00:32:20.399] what the phone no there's no there's no
[00:32:22.240] asking questions no
[00:32:23.919] but when you watch something become
[00:32:25.600] transparent and you realize it's still
[00:32:27.760] there but you could now see through it
[00:32:29.279] yeah i mean now that's not that
[00:32:31.679] impressive we do have some liquid
[00:32:33.360] crystal materials that are like that
[00:32:35.519] you know they are seen in smart glass
[00:32:37.679] yeah they call it smart glass so this is
[00:32:39.519] just uh and i don't know if the craft is
[00:32:41.679] made of
[00:32:42.720] you know an advanced metal or a ceramic
[00:32:45.279] it was cold to the touch
[00:32:47.200] so um you know i would lean in more
[00:32:49.360] towards the metal you're not allowed to
[00:32:50.960] ask questions
[00:32:52.240] no the only there they work on the buddy
[00:32:54.799] system so i can only exchange ideas and
[00:32:57.519] talk to barry
[00:32:59.279] now this really interferes with science
[00:33:02.159] because science is based on free
[00:33:03.600] discussion and ideally you get a bunch
[00:33:05.919] of guys together exchange ideas work on
[00:33:08.080] problems and that's how things move
[00:33:09.600] forward
[00:33:10.399] but they're so over the top concerned
[00:33:13.279] about security they split everything off
[00:33:16.159] and
[00:33:17.200] everybody becomes stagnant it it
[00:33:20.640] it just destroys any of the progress you
[00:33:23.360] can make or at least makes it go so slow
[00:33:26.399] um they i think they wind up shooting
[00:33:28.320] themselves in the foot which is probably
[00:33:30.240] why they
[00:33:31.440] arrived at this bottleneck that they
[00:33:33.519] needed to get this madman with a jet
[00:33:35.919] powered honda to come in and see what he
[00:33:37.760] could do i think that was an act of
[00:33:39.360] desperation i think they wanted someone
[00:33:41.200] that thinks out of the box and let's
[00:33:43.039] just give this guy a try here because
[00:33:45.120] they weren't and uh they might have done
[00:33:47.120] this
[00:33:47.919] four more times since uh you know up to
[00:33:50.559] the point in time today assuming they're
[00:33:52.080] still working on this thing
[00:33:54.159] and when you see this craft and you're
[00:33:57.440] inside was there any
[00:33:59.440] indication that there was an area that
[00:34:01.760] they would use to control it to pilot
[00:34:04.240] was there a pilot seat
[00:34:06.480] was there's there were three seats they
[00:34:08.399] sat around uh the reactor was in the
[00:34:11.040] dead center of it
[00:34:12.639] and then equidistant around there were
[00:34:14.800] three seats
[00:34:16.320] so and that's all there was a a large
[00:34:19.520] you would they're not consoles there are
[00:34:21.599] large rectangular objects also spaced
[00:34:24.960] equidistant around the center um there's
[00:34:27.839] nothing on them there's no buttons
[00:34:29.280] there's no lights and they control the
[00:34:31.119] same color everything is the same color
[00:34:33.359] different shape right
[00:34:34.879] and um
[00:34:36.560] directly underneath them there's three
[00:34:38.240] levels in the craft uh the main level is
[00:34:41.200] what we're talking about directly under
[00:34:43.359] that
[00:34:44.639] those are the gravity amplifiers the big
[00:34:46.560] rectangular objects underneath them are
[00:34:48.960] the gravity emitters that look like for
[00:34:51.440] lack of a better word a trash can
[00:34:53.119] hanging on a pipe three of those and
[00:34:55.760] then the top layer
[00:34:58.079] i this is just my personal belief i
[00:35:00.160] think that has to do with a
[00:35:02.400] a navigation or their version of a
[00:35:04.400] computer uh with some planar panels
[00:35:08.240] sensor panels around the craft that we
[00:35:10.160] would call portholes but they're not
[00:35:11.920] portholes they're just black areas and i
[00:35:14.160] think that just determines its
[00:35:16.800] you know position in space
[00:35:18.720] but i was i i physically was in the
[00:35:21.520] center section and i stuck my torso in
[00:35:24.560] the bottom section and hung upside down
[00:35:26.320] so i could see
[00:35:27.599] how the gravity amplifiers were
[00:35:29.520] positioned
[00:35:30.400] what is the the roughly the size of this
[00:35:32.240] thing it's a i think it
[00:35:34.480] i don't remember from being there but um
[00:35:37.520] after all this stuff was over i had uh
[00:35:40.160] john andrews a guy from the testers
[00:35:42.000] model corporation and you know we sat
[00:35:44.320] down and tried to figure out from what i
[00:35:47.280] saw
[00:35:48.560] um
[00:35:49.680] and known sizes of things and we came up
[00:35:51.760] with 52 feet in diameter
[00:35:54.640] so i think that's really small yeah so i
[00:35:56.720] think that's a fair a reasonable guess
[00:35:59.520] now you said there's nine of them and
[00:36:00.960] you got a brief glimpse at the other
[00:36:02.960] ones were they how are they different
[00:36:05.440] oh
[00:36:06.480] they looked completely different one
[00:36:08.000] looked like i called it jello mold and
[00:36:10.400] it it looked like a classic jello mold
[00:36:12.720] with the rippled sides to it one was a
[00:36:14.800] very flat disc
[00:36:16.560] um
[00:36:18.800] you know like a
[00:36:20.240] oh i don't like a straw hat or something
[00:36:22.160] like that that was sitting up on its
[00:36:24.160] edge and the thin part of it had looked
[00:36:27.200] like a projectile had been fired through
[00:36:30.480] the edge of it so i don't know if they
[00:36:32.320] were attempting to see if the metal
[00:36:34.640] could be penetrated or if something or
[00:36:37.359] if that's
[00:36:38.400] where the thing came from maybe it was
[00:36:40.000] shot down um but that was the only one
[00:36:42.800] where i saw there was you know actual
[00:36:44.720] physical damage to it
[00:36:46.720] and that one was roughly the same size
[00:36:49.040] they're all uh they were kind of too far
[00:36:50.640] away to tell
[00:36:52.880] and did
[00:36:54.640] there was several teams that were
[00:36:56.400] working on the propulsion system so
[00:36:57.760] there was different teams that were
[00:36:59.119] working on these different aircrafts i i
[00:37:01.839] don't know i could only assume
[00:37:05.280] now when you're
[00:37:06.800] sitting in this thing
[00:37:08.400] and you're looking at this
[00:37:10.720] otherworldly craft
[00:37:12.720] your your goal is to try to figure out
[00:37:14.560] how this thing functions your goal is to
[00:37:17.040] try to figure out how this reactor
[00:37:19.599] i mean but you would imagine they would
[00:37:21.599] give you more time than just one day to
[00:37:23.200] check that out oh yeah it wasn't one day
[00:37:25.680] right
[00:37:26.880] yeah i mean this is barry was there
[00:37:29.440] i think barry was sleeping there i'm
[00:37:31.760] sure they had now
[00:37:33.359] that that isn't weird i mean up at the
[00:37:35.040] toenap test range where they work on
[00:37:36.640] stealth fighters you know you go i think
[00:37:40.160] three weeks on one week off and you stay
[00:37:42.480] up there too so it's not weird to stay
[00:37:44.240] up at the test site right so um yeah i
[00:37:46.880] think he pretty much didn't he acted
[00:37:48.720] like he's been up there for a long time
[00:37:50.720] yeah um
[00:37:52.240] but he's still there yeah who knows do
[00:37:54.880] you do you have contact with this guy no
[00:37:57.200] oh no i wish i did i kind of thought he
[00:37:59.920] was going to come out after i did right
[00:38:03.040] and i think i took so much flack and
[00:38:06.400] it's so much [ __ ] for what went on
[00:38:09.040] i think i actually i wound up helping
[00:38:11.040] security there and everybody became
[00:38:13.280] afraid of you know doing or saying
[00:38:15.520] anything after that
[00:38:17.119] so what kind of reports did you have to
[00:38:20.079] give like so you're not making much
[00:38:21.760] progress right you're just trying to
[00:38:22.960] figure out what this thing is and it
[00:38:24.320] seems impossible so well we didn't
[00:38:26.640] personally make them i mean we were
[00:38:28.800] always there was never a lot of
[00:38:31.040] information
[00:38:32.400] that we gained um
[00:38:34.640] the guy
[00:38:35.760] you would call him our supervisor his
[00:38:37.359] name was dennis mariani
[00:38:39.280] and kind of a military looking guy and
[00:38:42.320] he would routinely pop in you know
[00:38:44.880] during the day and you know hey what's
[00:38:47.680] going on guys and he would essentially
[00:38:50.240] relay any information anything new we
[00:38:52.480] came up with i mean he was our
[00:38:54.000] go-between you know where we presented
[00:38:56.480] him the information then he took it to
[00:38:58.320] wherever they were
[00:38:59.680] you know
[00:39:00.560] assembling all the data from everybody
[00:39:02.400] no i assume you're working normal days
[00:39:04.480] like an eight-hour day no
[00:39:06.400] no
[00:39:07.119] no it was really weird that i would be
[00:39:09.760] only called in on certain times and
[00:39:11.520] certain days and they would be weird
[00:39:13.680] hours too
[00:39:15.200] most of the time was later in the
[00:39:16.720] evening i mean i can get a call at 11
[00:39:18.640] o'clock at night and they'll say you
[00:39:20.480] know it's now 11 o'clock
[00:39:22.400] um
[00:39:23.760] by 11 45 you need to be at mccarran
[00:39:26.560] terminal and um
[00:39:29.119] you know we'll let you know when
[00:39:31.440] we have more information but what did
[00:39:33.200] you do while you were there if you're
[00:39:35.760] looking at this
[00:39:37.119] object this
[00:39:38.560] reactor and you can't figure out what it
[00:39:41.119] is or how it works other than the fact
[00:39:43.040] that it works on this element that we
[00:39:44.720] don't even know about sure i mean the
[00:39:46.400] thing was to
[00:39:48.000] what you do in you know
[00:39:50.800] with anything if you're trying to
[00:39:52.240] analyze it all you can do is perform
[00:39:54.079] tests
[00:39:55.440] and all we did is try and come up with
[00:39:57.920] every kind of test we possibly could i
[00:40:00.000] mean we tested you know it
[00:40:03.440] it violated
[00:40:05.040] a lot of what we thought was impossible
[00:40:06.880] to violate i mean one of the first laws
[00:40:09.680] of thermodynamics i mean essentially any
[00:40:12.400] machine any device that operates always
[00:40:14.480] makes extra heat
[00:40:16.320] nothing works at 100 efficient
[00:40:18.880] even the headphones you're wearing
[00:40:20.800] anything that takes power some of that
[00:40:23.119] power is going to be con converted to
[00:40:24.880] heat and it's just wasted
[00:40:27.440] this didn't i mean we looked at back
[00:40:29.359] then we had infrared cameras they're
[00:40:31.280] different today but back then you had to
[00:40:32.960] pour liquid nitrogen
[00:40:34.640] into the camera to cool the sensor down
[00:40:37.440] and um
[00:40:38.640] and get these infrared images you've
[00:40:40.320] seen
[00:40:41.280] but it never got no matter what the load
[00:40:43.680] was on the reactor it never got above
[00:40:46.880] the ambient temperature which is
[00:40:48.640] impossible i mean you're you know
[00:40:52.079] pulling out huge amounts of power and
[00:40:54.800] nothing ever gets warm
[00:40:57.680] we tried measuring magnetic fields and
[00:40:59.599] there was was nothing there so we
[00:41:01.599] started playing around with the
[00:41:04.000] emission from the emitters the gravity
[00:41:05.920] wave itself
[00:41:07.280] and saw what we could do with it and how
[00:41:10.160] it was focused so we really spent all
[00:41:12.800] our time
[00:41:14.400] just trying to see
[00:41:16.160] what the stuff can do and what we can
[00:41:18.560] control so you were seeing what it could
[00:41:20.800] do but you couldn't ever figure out how
[00:41:22.400] it was doing it
[00:41:24.319] no not really i mean we really we really
[00:41:27.200] could only use a or come up with a best
[00:41:29.359] guess and
[00:41:31.520] now i can't say we really
[00:41:34.560] that i could absolutely state for
[00:41:36.480] certainly or certainty how anything
[00:41:39.119] actually worked
[00:41:40.720] now
[00:41:41.920] how do did you know at all how they were
[00:41:44.800] piloting it because some they were doing
[00:41:47.839] some tests where they're having these
[00:41:50.079] things
[00:41:50.960] fly around in the sky
[00:41:53.040] and this is
[00:41:54.319] what gets us deeper into your story
[00:41:56.960] right um
[00:42:00.880] i was out there for uh
[00:42:03.119] one test
[00:42:04.720] um
[00:42:05.520] right in fact i was in with barry in the
[00:42:08.319] lab and dennis came in and said uh we're
[00:42:11.599] about to run the test why don't you guys
[00:42:13.200] come out or i think he said barry why
[00:42:15.599] don't you come out here and bring bob
[00:42:18.000] with you uh we went out there and
[00:42:21.119] the craft was already outside the hangar
[00:42:24.079] and was just preparing to lift off now
[00:42:27.440] they were in communication with somebody
[00:42:29.440] in the craft so there's a person in the
[00:42:31.760] crowd yeah there was
[00:42:33.599] certainly a person in there now it's not
[00:42:35.920] a comfortable place to be in because
[00:42:37.599] it's small so the guy has to be sitting
[00:42:39.760] on the floor in the middle uh my best
[00:42:42.160] guess and this is the same specific
[00:42:44.079] craft that you heard that was because
[00:42:45.440] you were that was the only craft that
[00:42:46.640] you were the only one that i i touched
[00:42:48.640] and worked on um
[00:42:50.960] and it it quietly lifted off the ground
[00:42:53.520] which was incredibly impressive to see
[00:42:56.319] quietly or silently
[00:42:58.640] what's
[00:42:59.440] well quietly because it
[00:43:01.920] didn't make sense
[00:43:03.200] it produced um
[00:43:05.680] a little corona discharge from the
[00:43:07.440] bottom a corona discharge is kind of a
[00:43:09.359] high voltage brush little bluish glow
[00:43:11.920] discharge as it was lifting off the
[00:43:13.760] ground you can hear a slight hiss sound
[00:43:16.000] now as soon as it cleared the ground by
[00:43:17.520] about five or ten feet
[00:43:19.280] maybe even less than that the hissing
[00:43:21.280] stopped and the blue gold disappeared so
[00:43:24.640] it lifted off quietly and then it
[00:43:26.640] hovered silently if you want to be
[00:43:28.480] specific
[00:43:29.599] wow so then what kind of maneuvers was
[00:43:32.480] it doing
[00:43:33.520] it took uh for that particular time it
[00:43:35.760] took off moved a little around around to
[00:43:38.079] the left and right and then sat back
[00:43:39.760] down
[00:43:40.560] the um
[00:43:42.480] the craft itself
[00:43:44.720] um
[00:43:46.480] they communicated with it with a reg
[00:43:48.800] because i saw the guy talking
[00:43:52.319] in a regular vhf radio
[00:43:54.880] to the person in the craft and i even
[00:43:57.520] saw the frequency that was on the
[00:43:59.839] the frequency counter of the uh
[00:44:02.079] communication the transceiver there
[00:44:04.240] um
[00:44:05.280] but what's weird is
[00:44:07.119] he shouldn't be able to communicate
[00:44:09.520] with the craft with a radio the radio
[00:44:13.280] the radio wave should bend around the
[00:44:14.880] craft i mean it shouldn't be possible
[00:44:17.520] every single thing about these the craft
[00:44:20.560] and the way they operated
[00:44:22.720] didn't make any sense to us i mean
[00:44:25.040] that's something we talked about for a
[00:44:26.800] while after why should the frequency
[00:44:28.640] bend around the craft
[00:44:30.160] well
[00:44:31.440] you really have to look at the way the
[00:44:32.960] gravity wave comes out of the craft
[00:44:35.040] there's a the reactors in the center and
[00:44:37.440] there's a waveguide that goes up to the
[00:44:39.520] top there's actually a small appendage
[00:44:41.280] that sticks out at the top of the craft
[00:44:43.200] and it produces a heart-shaped
[00:44:44.800] gravitational distortion around the
[00:44:46.480] craft now if the craft is sitting in the
[00:44:49.200] air and you walk underneath it and look
[00:44:52.000] up
[00:44:53.040] you actually cannot see the craft the
[00:44:56.160] light bends around it your bending
[00:44:58.560] gravity bends light it bends radio waves
[00:45:01.920] it's um
[00:45:03.520] it it shouldn't be possible to
[00:45:06.079] communicate with a craft that has an
[00:45:07.920] envelope around it that's distorting all
[00:45:10.400] forms of energy
[00:45:11.839] but
[00:45:13.119] they were apparently in contact with it
[00:45:15.040] somehow or another through some
[00:45:17.359] unexplained way that they don't bother
[00:45:19.359] explaining to you
[00:45:21.119] so this thing gets up it just does some
[00:45:22.640] very simple maneuvers left right left
[00:45:24.480] right goes down
[00:45:26.160] um and
[00:45:27.520] did they discuss this with you i mean
[00:45:29.280] they said they wanted you to see it no
[00:45:30.640] they they just wanted no they they
[00:45:32.800] didn't discuss anything with me it said
[00:45:35.040] it sat down we looked around for a bit
[00:45:37.119] and barry said let's go back we went
[00:45:38.720] back in the lab all we got to do is see
[00:45:40.640] it
[00:45:41.280] um
[00:45:42.720] fast forward
[00:45:45.520] to some months later
[00:45:47.599] i did have the test flight schedule of
[00:45:49.839] the craft now they had times they had
[00:45:51.839] designated high performance tests this
[00:45:54.800] obviously wasn't one
[00:45:56.480] that was a high performance test the
[00:45:59.280] high performance test went goes above
[00:46:02.000] the mountain range and they do much more
[00:46:04.319] radical moves with the thing look this
[00:46:05.760] is a prized item and they're not doing
[00:46:09.359] anything like taking it out of the
[00:46:10.480] atmosphere or flying around to other
[00:46:12.079] countries or anything like that
[00:46:13.839] they just play with this thing right
[00:46:15.280] over the test site
[00:46:17.119] but they were doing some radical moves
[00:46:19.040] with it
[00:46:19.920] and since i had the test flight schedule
[00:46:22.160] statistically
[00:46:25.119] the
[00:46:26.160] amount of traffic and the surrounding
[00:46:28.000] areas on the highway was lowest on
[00:46:30.640] wednesdays and that's why
[00:46:32.640] dennis told us that
[00:46:34.480] all the test flights occurred only on
[00:46:36.720] wednesdays because it'd be the least
[00:46:39.200] chance that anyone would see what's
[00:46:40.640] going on
[00:46:41.760] and this was before the the government
[00:46:44.160] had expanded the forbidden territory
[00:46:47.119] around area 51 and papoose lake and all
[00:46:50.079] that stuff right
[00:46:51.680] yeah i think that occurred
[00:46:53.839] after my story came out then people
[00:46:56.160] started going up on the mountaintops and
[00:46:58.319] trying to look down into there and they
[00:47:00.560] kind of freaked out and then did the
[00:47:02.079] land grab and pushed everybody back but
[00:47:04.880] yeah that i think all that occurred long
[00:47:07.200] after
[00:47:08.560] i'm sorry that i came out
[00:47:10.800] so
[00:47:11.760] you're working there and while you're
[00:47:13.839] working there you're under this crazy
[00:47:15.280] schedule
[00:47:16.640] forgive me for explaining your story but
[00:47:19.359] you
[00:47:20.160] uh would get these phone calls you would
[00:47:22.240] have to go to the to the airport at 11
[00:47:26.319] p.m
[00:47:27.280] and your wife started thinking that you
[00:47:29.119] were having an affair
[00:47:31.599] yeah apparently so
[00:47:33.359] um now i did give my permission to have
[00:47:36.400] you know as as part of the
[00:47:38.400] you know security clearance process um i
[00:47:41.760] i gave written permission to have the
[00:47:43.839] phones monitored and things of that sort
[00:47:45.680] so they weren't doing any covert stuff
[00:47:47.599] they um
[00:47:49.280] you know with any queue clearance or
[00:47:51.520] which is civilian top secret clearance
[00:47:53.839] or military top secret clearance they go
[00:47:55.920] talk to friends and
[00:47:57.599] you know
[00:47:58.640] place places you've been make sure
[00:48:00.000] you're not connected to foreign
[00:48:01.040] countries but you know monitoring your
[00:48:03.119] phone is nothing unusual
[00:48:04.960] however
[00:48:06.400] they
[00:48:07.440] insisted that
[00:48:08.880] you know you don't even talk
[00:48:10.720] to your loved one to your partner to
[00:48:12.240] your wife whatever about what's going on
[00:48:14.720] so she was essentially in the dark
[00:48:17.040] and didn't know the phone was being
[00:48:18.480] monitored
[00:48:19.599] well
[00:48:21.280] part of the security clearance
[00:48:23.839] is that not only do you not have any
[00:48:25.839] connections to foreign countries and
[00:48:27.359] aren't a maniac but you have to have a
[00:48:29.359] stable home life too
[00:48:31.280] well she started having an affair with a
[00:48:33.520] flight instructor
[00:48:35.040] now they were monitoring this on the
[00:48:37.119] phone and they knew it and i didn't
[00:48:39.440] so they stopped me
[00:48:41.280] coming in and their attitude at the time
[00:48:44.000] was
[00:48:45.599] we need to see how this is going to play
[00:48:47.119] out and if lazar is going to get a
[00:48:49.520] little weird or anything so
[00:48:51.599] let's just
[00:48:52.880] you know hold him off from coming in
[00:48:55.599] and
[00:48:56.720] you know see what happens and they
[00:48:58.319] explain this to you what was happening
[00:49:00.480] well after the fact yeah because time
[00:49:02.880] kind of went on
[00:49:04.319] and
[00:49:05.200] there were guys that were following me
[00:49:06.880] around and i started getting a little
[00:49:09.040] concerned going well
[00:49:10.800] ted are they
[00:49:12.480] booting me out of the project and if so
[00:49:16.160] they're not just going to let me hang
[00:49:17.680] out at home and go get a new job knowing
[00:49:19.920] what i know
[00:49:21.119] so
[00:49:22.319] as time went on i started getting a
[00:49:24.160] little concerned and
[00:49:26.079] i took my closest friends and just kind
[00:49:28.240] of got together and i said hey
[00:49:30.720] remember that job i told you about
[00:49:33.200] this is what's going on
[00:49:35.119] and uh like you don't need to take my
[00:49:37.440] word for it
[00:49:38.640] on wednesday night we need to all go out
[00:49:40.960] here i want to show you what's going on
[00:49:42.640] so i took everybody and we went out to
[00:49:45.920] um remember since i had the test flight
[00:49:48.000] schedule and went outside the base
[00:49:51.599] out into the desert and so everybody
[00:49:53.680] could see you know one of the high
[00:49:55.119] performance tests
[00:49:56.640] and you know it left quite an imprint on
[00:49:59.280] everybody so they knew i wasn't and
[00:50:01.040] there's videos of these tests right yeah
[00:50:03.280] but remember this is in the
[00:50:05.200] it's in in the dark in the 80s with a
[00:50:07.359] big monster-sized camcorder and you got
[00:50:09.520] you know a bright light jumping around
[00:50:11.680] but uh yeah i mean we did video of it
[00:50:14.160] but there's no
[00:50:15.520] by today's standards it's but is your
[00:50:17.599] video specifically available the video
[00:50:19.680] that you took
[00:50:20.800] yeah well george knapp has it it's is it
[00:50:24.319] i have no idea jeremy yeah i show clips
[00:50:26.720] of it in my film it's it's online and
[00:50:28.559] someone did a deep analysis of it uh it
[00:50:30.880] was interesting uh to take a look at how
[00:50:33.280] well this microphone up to your face
[00:50:34.720] about a fist from your face all right
[00:50:36.559] um you know to see how his video looks
[00:50:39.119] now but as far as video evidence i mean
[00:50:41.760] we are talking 80s camp was the most
[00:50:43.839] important thing is the human story here
[00:50:45.839] everybody that he took up there on three
[00:50:48.079] separate occasions they don't all like
[00:50:50.000] each other they don't all talk they all
[00:50:52.400] agree on one thing they saw something
[00:50:54.720] that night at the exact point in time
[00:50:56.720] and space that babazar said and remember
[00:50:58.480] this is 17 15 17 miles south of air 51.
[00:51:01.839] no one even knew really about air 51
[00:51:03.920] we're talking papoose lake and they all
[00:51:05.920] agree they saw something that night they
[00:51:07.920] had never seen before and they've never
[00:51:09.760] seen since right when he said it so
[00:51:11.760] that's one of like the six things where
[00:51:13.440] i'm like how did he know you can dismiss
[00:51:15.760] him i i tried to dismiss it but some
[00:51:18.240] things we can't get around and and
[00:51:19.760] there's about five or six of them how
[00:51:21.760] did he know about this if jamie wants to
[00:51:23.200] find that video right now what would he
[00:51:24.480] look under
[00:51:25.760] bob lazar ufo
[00:51:28.400] s for
[00:51:30.160] area 51 just kind of like that uh so
[00:51:32.400] it's like this s4 ufo video bob lazar
[00:51:35.520] and a guy does an analysis but you're
[00:51:37.680] not analyzing these 80s videos right he
[00:51:41.520] from the very beginning bob never said i
[00:51:43.839] have proof of my story and i'm going to
[00:51:45.599] tell the world he said at the very
[00:51:47.359] beginning i cannot prove my story that's
[00:51:50.079] not why i'm telling this george knapp
[00:51:52.400] convinced him to tell people
[00:51:54.720] and he lived through it and i i didn't
[00:51:56.000] believe it either until i i talked with
[00:51:58.000] george
[00:51:59.040] okay so you
[00:52:00.640] you filmed these
[00:52:02.960] this test flight one test flight and
[00:52:04.960] then you get caught
[00:52:06.800] actually it was i think the third time
[00:52:09.200] because it
[00:52:10.720] we went out there the first time
[00:52:13.520] everybody saw it everybody was amazed
[00:52:15.680] because it did some radical maneuvers
[00:52:17.920] and um you know everybody had a lot of
[00:52:20.640] maneuvers that i've seen i've seen the
[00:52:22.000] video it doesn't i don't think there's
[00:52:24.400] something we have now that does that no
[00:52:26.640] in terms of like a human piloted craft
[00:52:29.680] i mean i don't know obviously with the
[00:52:31.359] government no it's it's impossible
[00:52:32.960] nothing can move like that and remember
[00:52:35.040] we didn't start filming from the very
[00:52:36.880] beginning
[00:52:37.920] you know
[00:52:39.040] we were waiting for something you know
[00:52:40.640] to happen the craft took off and then
[00:52:42.319] came flying at us stopped you know
[00:52:44.400] turned it a right angle flew back and
[00:52:46.160] then you know after it did some you know
[00:52:48.000] amazing stuff
[00:52:49.359] to get the camera and then we started
[00:52:51.280] filming so it doesn't have all of it on
[00:52:53.520] there it just has some the way i
[00:52:55.200] describe it to my friends and they said
[00:52:56.480] what does it look like i said take a
[00:52:58.000] laser pointer and then have a wall and
[00:53:00.319] then move it around the wall like you
[00:53:02.240] know how it moves around the wall it
[00:53:03.440] doesn't seem like it has anything to do
[00:53:04.960] with inertia or physics or it's not
[00:53:07.760] impeded in any way by the atmosphere
[00:53:09.920] yeah that's what it looks like you're
[00:53:11.200] essentially separated from reality as
[00:53:14.079] crazy as that sounds with it being in in
[00:53:17.200] case it's an own gravitational envelope
[00:53:20.400] inertia is not going to affect it and
[00:53:22.640] you know this is
[00:53:25.280] this is how some of those recent
[00:53:26.720] sightings of commander david fravor i'm
[00:53:28.880] sure you've heard of the
[00:53:30.400] ufo i mean he describes exactly
[00:53:33.440] that the thing operates exactly the way
[00:53:35.280] i was describing that's why
[00:53:37.520] he was interested to talk to me um but
[00:53:40.960] we saw this
[00:53:42.559] and
[00:53:43.680] you know on the way home it's like hey
[00:53:45.440] we got away with it we should try it
[00:53:46.880] again the next test flight date so this
[00:53:49.760] became a thing to do
[00:53:51.520] and i think it was on
[00:53:52.960] the third time
[00:53:54.559] that we got caught i mean we started
[00:53:57.440] becoming a little careless i think we
[00:53:59.119] took a motor home out there
[00:54:01.040] you know i mean it was like the
[00:54:02.559] stupidest thing you could possibly start
[00:54:04.720] tailgating yeah it was ridiculous and um
[00:54:07.760] again you're in your 20s yeah and you
[00:54:10.400] know what was funny was um
[00:54:13.119] we went out there and
[00:54:15.200] my friend gene huff and i were leaning
[00:54:17.520] on the front of a vehicle
[00:54:19.440] and
[00:54:21.040] just for some reason we just started
[00:54:23.040] talking [ __ ] like uh well i hope they
[00:54:26.960] realize that uh
[00:54:29.440] i don't remember what we were saying but
[00:54:31.280] you know that
[00:54:33.200] something about attacking the base or
[00:54:34.880] something along those lines and stealing
[00:54:37.119] the craft or
[00:54:38.480] something like that
[00:54:40.079] and um
[00:54:41.280] then about 20 feet in front of us we see
[00:54:43.440] a little green light
[00:54:45.440] fall on the ground and roll to us
[00:54:47.920] and unbeknownst to us now it's pitch
[00:54:50.000] black you can't see your hand in front
[00:54:51.359] of your face there were a bunch of
[00:54:52.640] guards standing right out there and they
[00:54:54.880] had a night vision scope where they were
[00:54:56.880] like from here to the wall looking at us
[00:54:59.119] listening to us and the guy dropped it
[00:55:00.720] and the scope rolled over to us and you
[00:55:02.400] could see the green screen
[00:55:04.319] you know we turn the lights on and all
[00:55:06.400] these guys are there so
[00:55:08.240] it was uh whoa yeah yeah so we did
[00:55:10.960] incredibly stupid stuff and got caught
[00:55:12.800] as we should have because so when they
[00:55:14.480] catch you and they bring you in then
[00:55:15.920] what happens well i went in for
[00:55:17.440] debriefing
[00:55:19.040] the following day i went to indian
[00:55:21.119] springs air force base which is kind of
[00:55:23.119] a defunct
[00:55:24.880] base that they used to use at the
[00:55:26.720] nuclear test site
[00:55:28.319] and this is when they brought out
[00:55:31.200] um
[00:55:32.400] the transcript of the phone call
[00:55:34.559] with my wife
[00:55:36.559] and you know they sat me down and we
[00:55:38.880] said you know when we meant to keep the
[00:55:40.640] secret we meant you can't tell your
[00:55:43.040] friends right you know and it just being
[00:55:45.280] sarcastic and trying to mm-hmm um and
[00:55:48.000] then they got real serious
[00:55:50.079] uh but this is where they
[00:55:52.480] you know took the transcript out and
[00:55:54.000] were reading me what uh
[00:55:56.400] my wife
[00:55:58.000] and
[00:55:59.119] you know our friend were talking about
[00:56:01.200] and uh
[00:56:03.440] it was a hard time so what happens from
[00:56:05.520] there
[00:56:08.079] what do they do with you why don't they
[00:56:09.440] arrest you
[00:56:10.480] i don't i don't know i don't know why
[00:56:13.119] i'm not sure they exactly they knew what
[00:56:15.359] to do but they did let me go
[00:56:18.160] that night and i went home
[00:56:20.559] and that this is kind of when the most
[00:56:22.640] stressful part started because you're
[00:56:24.559] realizing you're being monitored
[00:56:26.640] yeah now i know not only am i being
[00:56:28.720] monitored but now i know i'm in trouble
[00:56:31.119] and uh it wasn't a short time after that
[00:56:33.839] that i contacted you know at that time
[00:56:36.400] the
[00:56:37.119] only investigative reporter i had heard
[00:56:39.200] of in las vegas was george knapp
[00:56:41.599] and um you know told him some of the
[00:56:43.839] story because i had no idea what the
[00:56:45.440] hell was going to happen at that point
[00:56:47.280] so george knapp
[00:56:49.200] tries to
[00:56:50.880] dissect your story tries to find holes
[00:56:52.960] in it
[00:56:53.920] tells it puts it online and makes
[00:56:56.160] everybody aware of it and that's how i
[00:56:57.440] found out about it yeah to make a long
[00:56:59.599] story short
[00:57:01.119] what happens yeah to really make a long
[00:57:02.960] story short what happens from there on i
[00:57:05.119] mean do they contact you and say hey bob
[00:57:07.520] it's probably a good idea if you shut up
[00:57:12.079] how
[00:57:13.359] did they try to label you as crazy was
[00:57:15.440] there
[00:57:17.680] there were boy there were a lot of
[00:57:19.119] things that happened at you know between
[00:57:22.319] that point um i'm leaving out a lot of
[00:57:24.839] stuff to fill in the story
[00:57:28.559] we'd have to go back to los alamos and
[00:57:30.880] and
[00:57:33.040] well i really don't want to talk about
[00:57:34.480] that the um
[00:57:37.440] top secret weapons
[00:57:39.040] stuff that you were working on
[00:57:41.040] no i'm talking about the 115.
[00:57:43.359] um
[00:57:46.240] well i don't know i have to think about
[00:57:47.599] how i'd
[00:57:49.440] what is the problem
[00:57:52.839] i don't want to get myself into more
[00:57:55.280] trouble by admitting something so
[00:57:57.440] um i just have to dance around a couple
[00:57:59.839] he was created just during the filming
[00:58:01.680] of the movie people thought the movie's
[00:58:03.599] great by the way thanks joe and uh it's
[00:58:05.359] on netflix right now if anybody wants to
[00:58:07.359] check it out and if you're one of those
[00:58:08.799] people like me
[00:58:10.160] who um you know i've always
[00:58:12.640] loved the idea of ufos i became
[00:58:15.119] extremely weary talking to people who
[00:58:17.680] are ufo believers and ufo fanatics
[00:58:19.920] because there's so many of them that are
[00:58:21.119] full of [ __ ] and not just full of [ __ ]
[00:58:23.119] they're they're childishly delirious
[00:58:26.720] like the way they talk about things i
[00:58:28.720] mean there's so many people that are
[00:58:30.400] that i'm in contact they they reach me
[00:58:33.040] in the night and they explain to me what
[00:58:34.880] we're doing to the ocean is wrong and
[00:58:37.280] like you're like okay this is one of the
[00:58:39.119] reasons i didn't want to do the show
[00:58:44.000] well it's i mean it's no joke we've had
[00:58:46.559] people literally camp out on our front
[00:58:48.400] lawn and uh
[00:58:50.480] you know
[00:58:51.920] in some ways i can relate to some of
[00:58:53.680] these people you know maybe some of them
[00:58:55.359] did really have some kind of experience
[00:58:57.280] or saw something and all their friends
[00:58:59.280] think they're crazy but hey now there's
[00:59:01.119] this guy i heard on the radio
[00:59:03.280] and uh at least he knows i'm not full of
[00:59:06.000] [ __ ] so i gotta talk to him and so most
[00:59:08.960] of the
[00:59:09.760] correspondents i get are people trying
[00:59:11.520] to get a hold of me going bob you you
[00:59:13.440] gotta listen to me i'm i'm coming to
[00:59:15.200] talk to you i'm you know i'm driving
[00:59:16.960] from oklahoma or whatever and and and
[00:59:20.000] but some of them are just [ __ ] bad
[00:59:22.240] [ __ ] crazy yeah they're frightening
[00:59:24.480] there's a lot of schizophrenics that are
[00:59:26.160] involved in the conspiracy world so
[00:59:29.040] there's a lot of people that have real
[00:59:30.319] issues joe
[00:59:31.520] it would be a disservice to your
[00:59:33.200] audience to not say that
[00:59:36.000] we have to look at what's going on now
[00:59:37.760] and understand i've heard
[00:59:39.200] on your show a bunch of stuff about
[00:59:40.720] what's going on now and to not really
[00:59:43.119] understand what's going on now you can't
[00:59:45.920] see bob's story in the correct light
[00:59:48.319] after 30 years and at some point we
[00:59:50.319] should just touch upon that
[00:59:52.640] um the the biggest being that things
[00:59:55.119] like the tic tac ufo case that came out
[00:59:57.920] i've heard people even on the show say
[00:59:59.920] oh there's a glitch in the radar
[01:00:01.839] that's a data poor perspective you just
[01:00:04.480] don't know yet what's really going on
[01:00:06.240] commander fravor i was able to get the
[01:00:08.160] interview with him to talk with him way
[01:00:09.680] before it became public i got that from
[01:00:12.559] him he saw it other pilots saw it this
[01:00:15.920] is a big thing that's going on right now
[01:00:18.480] they had more sightings on the east
[01:00:20.400] coast recently cubes with spherical
[01:00:23.200] auras these are not aerodynamic and
[01:00:24.720] these are the people we trust to defend
[01:00:26.160] us on 911 commander favor protected los
[01:00:28.720] angeles and 911. so we trust them but
[01:00:31.280] they're not trained observers
[01:00:33.280] radar
[01:00:34.400] individuals see these things and the big
[01:00:36.160] the big one just to throw down so we can
[01:00:37.920] consider a story a little differently
[01:00:39.200] there's more depth to it the big one is
[01:00:41.599] the united states government has
[01:00:43.040] admitted that they have been
[01:00:44.559] continuously studying the ufo phenomenon
[01:00:47.359] that program was called a tip advanced
[01:00:50.400] error or sorry
[01:00:52.160] was called awsap that that's the
[01:00:54.880] mother program george knapp got that out
[01:00:57.119] they they announced through the new york
[01:00:58.559] times about a tip
[01:01:00.480] but awesome these acronyms asap advanced
[01:01:02.960] aerospace weapon systems applications
[01:01:04.559] program who cares
[01:01:06.000] that was the mother program so they've
[01:01:07.760] admitted we didn't stop studying ufos in
[01:01:09.520] 1969 with project blue book we don't
[01:01:11.760] think it's crazy we actually want to
[01:01:13.520] reverse engineer the technology that's
[01:01:15.200] why on your other show you said what's
[01:01:16.960] this aav thing it's like they're making
[01:01:18.960] up another ufo name well hold on there's
[01:01:20.640] a reason because in the documents the
[01:01:23.200] the dia documents that george knapp
[01:01:25.040] released that everybody said was fake
[01:01:26.720] till now they know is real
[01:01:28.400] they call them aavs which is advanced
[01:01:32.079] aerospace vehicles people are getting
[01:01:34.400] the acronyms wrong so the reason for the
[01:01:36.480] terminology change is so that we can
[01:01:38.880] mimic what we're reading in the dia
[01:01:40.400] documents people can look for that now
[01:01:42.640] so they changed the names to get people
[01:01:44.799] away from ufo or uap even like hillary
[01:01:47.040] clinton said on air right so what are
[01:01:49.760] you talking about hillary clinton
[01:01:51.359] hillary clinton
[01:01:52.640] informed the public on jimmy kimmel oh
[01:01:55.680] jimmy we don't call them ufos anymore we
[01:01:58.240] call them uaps unidentified aerial
[01:02:00.880] phenomenon
[01:02:02.000] right so she kind of was giving their
[01:02:03.839] the clintons are very into the ufo topic
[01:02:06.160] senator reid you know he he's done a lot
[01:02:08.480] for the for the subject the study of it
[01:02:10.640] right
[01:02:11.440] so she informed the public so they could
[01:02:13.280] look for the right term so these terms
[01:02:15.200] are important because the dia in those
[01:02:17.760] documents they've been calling them aavs
[01:02:20.640] for quite some time now and they change
[01:02:22.400] the name to anomalous no that that's
[01:02:25.359] kind of a misnomer
[01:02:26.960] so
[01:02:27.920] they always mess around with things but
[01:02:29.920] it's actually advanced right but when
[01:02:32.079] they're describing it in the news they
[01:02:33.599] were calling an anomalous space vehicle
[01:02:35.760] totally and that's cool they were also
[01:02:37.359] saying anomalous aerospace threats aat
[01:02:40.880] right because they want the sense of a
[01:02:42.160] threat right so my point is all of if
[01:02:45.280] people don't know this now and they
[01:02:46.960] think this stuff is is fantasy this this
[01:02:48.960] part of it that we're studying it that
[01:02:50.480] we take it seriously we're spending
[01:02:51.920] money on it and that we're getting great
[01:02:54.079] data from from visual pilots to to radar
[01:02:56.720] that's why we know it's aerospace they
[01:02:58.240] dropped from 80 000 feet but guess what
[01:03:00.480] that's the top scope of the spy 1 radar
[01:03:03.280] is 80 000 feet so the radar system they
[01:03:05.839] were using it was coming from above that
[01:03:08.079] so my point is this
[01:03:10.160] if you don't understand that this is
[01:03:12.319] happening you're just behind the curve
[01:03:14.640] because you don't have the information
[01:03:16.559] because of the stigma that you're
[01:03:18.240] talking about i saw you get totally
[01:03:20.160] upset with the ufo topic i met you first
[01:03:22.480] when you're totally upset with the ufo
[01:03:24.000] topic it's the people when
[01:03:26.480] when when you're doing your
[01:03:28.160] i'm sorry man when you're when you're
[01:03:29.520] doing your show you know the joe organ
[01:03:31.680] questions everything
[01:03:33.039] i could see
[01:03:34.240] how
[01:03:35.280] how frustrating is trust me i have been
[01:03:37.119] frustrated to hell luckily my mentors
[01:03:39.119] george knapp and he's taught me the pit
[01:03:40.720] bull pitfalls as i went through it my
[01:03:43.280] whole point in this rant right here
[01:03:45.599] is just that we have to now look at
[01:03:47.440] bob's story but knowing the facts
[01:03:50.720] not someone saying it's a bird it's a
[01:03:52.400] plane it's a glitch
[01:03:54.000] they're not and so if you don't know
[01:03:56.079] that you just don't have the information
[01:03:57.680] yet not just that knowing the facts as
[01:03:59.280] we know him in 2019 not in 1988
[01:04:02.079] absolutely and so what has he said
[01:04:05.680] that has come true he's totally
[01:04:07.119] unimpressed with it right what has he
[01:04:08.880] said this come true so i was like bob
[01:04:10.880] they've announced gravity as a wave you
[01:04:13.520] were right man you're vindicated and he
[01:04:15.599] looks at me and he's like well if you
[01:04:17.119] think about it jeremy i had like a 50 50
[01:04:19.280] chance he was not very impressed right
[01:04:22.640] when did they announce gravity as a wave
[01:04:24.960] so they detected in a sense they
[01:04:26.880] detected gravity waves who were who was
[01:04:29.280] they
[01:04:30.480] you might know more there's two black
[01:04:32.000] holes that were colliding and that's how
[01:04:33.440] they were able to detect yeah somebody
[01:04:35.440] bill i don't know which group it was or
[01:04:37.280] what part of the government that's what
[01:04:39.119] google's for yeah would it but they um
[01:04:42.720] you know built a gigantic gravity wave
[01:04:44.559] detector and pretty much
[01:04:47.119] detected that there are such things as
[01:04:50.480] first observation of gravitational waves
[01:04:53.599] it says it was in 2016.
[01:04:56.480] okay the first observation of
[01:04:57.920] gravitational waves was made on 14th of
[01:05:00.079] september 2015 right as announced by the
[01:05:02.799] ligo and virgo collaborators on the 11th
[01:05:06.319] of february 2016 previously
[01:05:08.799] gravitational waves had only been
[01:05:10.319] inferred indirectly via their effect on
[01:05:13.039] the timing of pulsars in binary star
[01:05:16.000] systems
[01:05:18.640] the waveform connected by both
[01:05:21.359] ligo ligo observatories match the
[01:05:24.559] predictions of general relativity for
[01:05:27.280] gravity for a gravitational wave
[01:05:32.079] emanating from the inward sp i'm trying
[01:05:34.880] to get this from the inward spiral and
[01:05:37.280] merger of a pair of black holes around
[01:05:39.920] 36 and 29 solar masses and the
[01:05:42.400] subsequent
[01:05:43.520] ring down
[01:05:44.799] of the single resulting black hole
[01:05:47.599] well that i mean
[01:05:49.039] yeah it's not he was in the 80s the
[01:05:51.200] predominant theory was gravity is
[01:05:53.200] produced by gravitons okay you know part
[01:05:55.839] of theoretic theoretical particles but
[01:05:58.720] um they're not they're waves they're not
[01:06:00.960] particles and that's so the thought is
[01:06:03.200] that the way we experience gravity it's
[01:06:05.680] based on mass which is why the moon
[01:06:08.640] which is
[01:06:09.680] roughly one quarter the size of the
[01:06:11.440] earth has one sixth of the earth's
[01:06:13.119] gravity so there's some sort of a
[01:06:14.319] computation you can make based on mass
[01:06:16.079] right and and remember
[01:06:18.640] we can observe
[01:06:20.160] the effects of gravity but we have no
[01:06:22.640] idea what it is all we can do is observe
[01:06:25.760] it and we can't make it the only way you
[01:06:27.680] can make gravity is just put more mass
[01:06:29.920] together and it's just a product of
[01:06:31.839] gravity but if you can make a if you
[01:06:34.079] have a machine that makes gravity
[01:06:37.039] you can pretty much do anything you can
[01:06:39.119] affect time you can have force fields
[01:06:42.000] all that stuff that's in science fiction
[01:06:44.079] becomes reality if you have a machine
[01:06:47.119] that can make gravity and what we worked
[01:06:49.440] on in the desert was a machine that
[01:06:51.920] makes gravity i love your analogy of
[01:06:54.400] dropping off a small nuclear reactor to
[01:06:57.200] the victorian era i love that that
[01:06:59.599] analogy because back then that was
[01:07:02.480] impossible that was magic
[01:07:04.960] what you're talking about here the fact
[01:07:07.119] that they just discovered this four
[01:07:09.280] years ago that this is a wave when we're
[01:07:12.640] as much as we know and as impressed as
[01:07:14.480] we are as we should be with how much
[01:07:17.039] more
[01:07:17.920] technologically advanced we are than
[01:07:19.599] every other creature on this planet
[01:07:21.200] we're still in many ways in the
[01:07:22.960] adolescence of technological innovation
[01:07:25.280] absolutely
[01:07:26.480] absolutely if even adolescence and when
[01:07:30.000] you're talking about this binary star
[01:07:32.880] system zeta reticuli and who knows how
[01:07:36.319] much longer these things have been
[01:07:37.839] around than us who knows what their
[01:07:40.079] evolutionary cycle's been who knows what
[01:07:43.200] i mean we might be talking about
[01:07:44.240] something that's a million years more
[01:07:45.359] advanced than us
[01:07:46.720] yeah yeah it could easily be now i'm not
[01:07:49.680] in
[01:07:50.720] believe it or not i'm not into ufos i
[01:07:52.720] don't follow stories or you know even
[01:07:55.359] after your experiences no i'm fascinated
[01:07:57.920] with the technology and i i it really it
[01:08:00.559] irks me like every night i go to sleep
[01:08:02.640] that you know i don't
[01:08:05.920] that it was my own doing essentially
[01:08:08.559] that
[01:08:09.359] that prevented me from continuing on in
[01:08:11.280] the in the project i mean it's the
[01:08:13.920] that to be on that cutting edge of
[01:08:15.440] technology is so alluring to me right
[01:08:18.640] but
[01:08:20.400] you know by the same token i don't
[01:08:22.480] really care that there's aliens or where
[01:08:24.480] they come from i mean the prize is the
[01:08:26.560] technology and that's what i'm
[01:08:27.839] fascinated by but so i don't listen to
[01:08:29.839] ufo stories and that sort of thing but
[01:08:31.600] george knapp is um
[01:08:33.600] i mean he's the guy that has the context
[01:08:36.400] and tries to thread everything together
[01:08:38.560] and
[01:08:39.520] what he recently told me is he found
[01:08:42.319] i don't know is either documentation or
[01:08:44.239] people that he spoke to it's at this the
[01:08:46.480] existence of this project the project
[01:08:48.239] that i was on it's something that they
[01:08:52.480] seem to take out every eight or ten
[01:08:54.400] years so that's a very specific memo and
[01:08:57.120] this is actually i this is the first
[01:08:59.040] time i'll be very clear with people
[01:09:00.480] about it it's a big topic of
[01:09:01.759] conversation right now it's called the
[01:09:03.759] wilson memo
[01:09:05.199] you can look it up
[01:09:06.480] admiral wilson met with a scientist
[01:09:09.120] who's actually was featured in one of my
[01:09:10.719] films
[01:09:11.759] everybody has been debating whether or
[01:09:13.600] not this document
[01:09:15.600] of a conversation
[01:09:17.520] with a with a sitting admiral at the
[01:09:19.199] time is a real
[01:09:20.799] document it's an actual conversation
[01:09:22.640] that happened and this document is real
[01:09:24.000] everybody wants to know the world is
[01:09:25.120] going crazy right now in the ufo world
[01:09:27.359] i'll tell you straight up right now
[01:09:29.440] i'm in the position to know and it is a
[01:09:31.920] real document
[01:09:33.759] that it is real so the conversation you
[01:09:36.159] read in that
[01:09:37.600] that conversation was had i can't attest
[01:09:39.679] to everything
[01:09:40.480] you're not being very clear sure please
[01:09:42.719] no problem
[01:09:43.759] so there was a document that is
[01:09:45.520] circulating right now that is really big
[01:09:47.600] it's going around everywhere people are
[01:09:49.040] asking what is this talking about it's
[01:09:51.120] called the wilson memo is what how you
[01:09:52.960] can find it online
[01:09:54.640] the or the wilson leak there it is
[01:09:56.800] jimmy's got it the wilson memorandum use
[01:09:59.280] of human volunteers no no no no no
[01:10:02.400] yeah so uh
[01:10:04.880] admiral wilson meets with this scientist
[01:10:07.520] and they have this discussion oddly
[01:10:09.120] enough at special projects at egng and
[01:10:11.760] if i remember the document is from 2001
[01:10:14.000] i'm telling everybody right now it's
[01:10:15.440] real and we'll see my history is pretty
[01:10:17.840] good with like saying if something's
[01:10:19.199] real or not right so here we go the
[01:10:21.120] document comes out they meet at eg
[01:10:23.199] special projects in 1989 they stumble
[01:10:27.120] into a problem
[01:10:28.640] this happens they put the technology
[01:10:31.120] away and then they bring it back out and
[01:10:33.440] see if material science has caught up
[01:10:35.760] and if they can make any progress so
[01:10:37.840] this document kind of talks about this
[01:10:39.520] process the big thing i get from it and
[01:10:41.679] a lot of it's vindicating to bob and one
[01:10:43.920] of the things that's vindicating besides
[01:10:45.360] the eg g thing
[01:10:46.800] is that private industry so this guy's
[01:10:49.679] an admiral and he says i found out about
[01:10:52.719] your sap your special access program i
[01:10:55.360] need to know about it and he's going to
[01:10:57.920] a private part of industry
[01:11:00.480] and he is denied access
[01:11:02.719] and he says i you know i should be
[01:11:04.400] running this program and they were able
[01:11:06.800] to deny him access
[01:11:08.960] so i think the takeaway here is check it
[01:11:11.360] out i'm telling you that that is an
[01:11:12.880] actual correct that is a leak now
[01:11:15.280] everything said in that document i'm i
[01:11:16.960] don't know what are you talking about
[01:11:18.239] what what is said in that document
[01:11:19.360] specifically it's it's a between a
[01:11:21.120] scientist and an admiral that are
[01:11:23.120] sitting and they're having a meeting and
[01:11:25.360] they're talking about
[01:11:26.960] the the search for the the ufo subject
[01:11:29.440] the search to get special access program
[01:11:31.920] access to all of these different things
[01:11:34.400] like reverse engineering programs
[01:11:37.199] so in this document they talk about it
[01:11:40.000] uh i believe that
[01:11:42.000] this document that the person that went
[01:11:43.600] was employed by robert bigelow you know
[01:11:45.360] one of the guys that has a couple of
[01:11:46.480] orbiting satellites and all that stuff
[01:11:48.239] who's the guy owned skinwalker ranch no
[01:11:50.719] he's not he was the guy the walker okay
[01:11:54.320] yeah he used to own it there's a new
[01:11:55.760] owner and i i interview him for my other
[01:11:58.159] film
[01:11:59.040] but there's a new owner and you'll be
[01:12:00.480] hearing a lot more about that soon
[01:12:02.800] but uh like it'll just there's there's
[01:12:04.719] stuff that you'll be hearing about
[01:12:05.920] skinwalker ranching because there's a
[01:12:07.120] new owner anyway the whole point of this
[01:12:10.000] you know insertion here is just that
[01:12:12.480] that document kind of validates a lot of
[01:12:15.760] this idea bob just said that they make a
[01:12:18.080] little progress then they can't go
[01:12:20.000] anywhere they tuck it away and then they
[01:12:22.159] bring it back out you know 10 years
[01:12:24.000] later and start working on it
[01:12:26.000] what is the limiting factor i think bob
[01:12:27.679] should speak on this but it's the
[01:12:29.199] material science
[01:12:30.880] yeah it's really where physics is so i i
[01:12:33.199] can i can see them doing that i mean i
[01:12:35.440] didn't have any
[01:12:36.880] uh
[01:12:37.679] information on that but i think what you
[01:12:40.159] know george uncovered is probably
[01:12:41.840] accurate that uh you know we try and do
[01:12:44.080] what we can and once we reach a
[01:12:46.000] roadblock on we really can't figure it
[01:12:48.400] out it's just friggin wait put the thing
[01:12:51.600] away wait for science to catch up and
[01:12:54.159] you know a decade later let's take the
[01:12:55.920] project out again and see all right now
[01:12:57.840] where can we go but there's got to be
[01:12:59.679] someone who remains informed right oh
[01:13:02.239] yeah you've got your scientists like you
[01:13:04.480] and barry you got your people that you
[01:13:06.480] compartmentalize you got these people
[01:13:07.840] working on yeah there has to be some
[01:13:09.280] people right that know everything you've
[01:13:11.440] got security and then someone's going to
[01:13:14.000] be on the outside saying hey we need
[01:13:16.239] people to guard this building don't let
[01:13:17.920] anybody in for ten years i think i think
[01:13:19.840] a lot of that is private industry and i
[01:13:22.000] think that's how they keep it yeah i
[01:13:23.440] think that's how they literally because
[01:13:24.960] the government is just so leaky i think
[01:13:27.760] that's kind of what they're doing that's
[01:13:29.280] what the document kind of proves you
[01:13:30.880] just articulated that that um it is in
[01:13:33.280] control private industry what private
[01:13:35.040] industry
[01:13:36.159] some aerospace company something i don't
[01:13:38.080] know yeah they wouldn't they would the
[01:13:39.199] guy with the admiral wouldn't name it in
[01:13:40.880] the car right in the conversation right
[01:13:43.040] so
[01:13:43.920] they
[01:13:44.880] still have these things supposedly
[01:13:48.800] i would guess i mean i don't have any
[01:13:50.560] information have you ever asked anyone
[01:13:53.840] that has any inkling of any idea of
[01:13:57.360] where they got them or how they got them
[01:14:00.000] no but um
[01:14:01.840] something must have been said to me um
[01:14:05.199] from barry
[01:14:06.800] and but i i it was just too long ago and
[01:14:09.120] i i can't quite remember what was said
[01:14:10.880] but it
[01:14:11.920] it just left a seat in my mind i think
[01:14:14.000] at least one of them was part of an
[01:14:15.600] archaeological dig
[01:14:18.159] so
[01:14:19.280] it's old
[01:14:20.719] something one at least one of them is
[01:14:22.560] old i don't know if it was the one i
[01:14:23.920] worked on but i remember
[01:14:25.760] something to do with an archaeological
[01:14:27.440] dig whoa so that's uh
[01:14:30.320] that means it's not just old it's
[01:14:31.679] ancient that'd be a great stephen
[01:14:33.199] spielberg movie yeah right
[01:14:35.040] [Laughter]
[01:14:37.040] as all of it would yeah that took me out
[01:14:38.960] when he said that for the first time
[01:14:40.480] yeah that's a freak out right there just
[01:14:42.640] a couple of dudes with some brushes
[01:14:44.560] looking for a tyrannosaurus rex bone and
[01:14:46.800] metal and when did they find it you know
[01:14:49.040] that they have nine of them well and how
[01:14:51.520] could we have not heard about that what
[01:14:53.440] about the guys with the brushes how
[01:14:55.280] could you uncover something like that
[01:14:57.440] and joe's newspaper at home does i mean
[01:14:59.840] they said it on that first day oh you
[01:15:01.679] mean the roswell yeah yeah yeah you told
[01:15:03.199] me yeah yeah i have a cover what is this
[01:15:05.520] here james it's the document but i had
[01:15:07.440] to do some digging to find it yes it's
[01:15:09.280] just kind of
[01:15:10.640] yeah so this is where they meet at egng
[01:15:12.480] and this is admiral wilson and there's a
[01:15:14.000] lot more coming out now i want to be
[01:15:15.120] clear george didn't put this out he
[01:15:17.360] didn't
[01:15:18.400] leak this out to anybody this is i can
[01:15:20.480] tell you how i recorded this this
[01:15:22.159] conversation so this was an employee
[01:15:24.400] of at the time robert bigelow and this
[01:15:26.480] is in 2002 right do you remember when he
[01:15:28.480] had that government contract called
[01:15:30.000] awesap the world all knows about now and
[01:15:32.000] he had nids that studied the ranch so
[01:15:33.760] that 22 million everybody is saying it
[01:15:35.600] was for atip um advanced aerospace
[01:15:38.480] threat identification program
[01:15:40.480] the 22 million dollars was for ossap
[01:15:43.520] that was pushed through through congress
[01:15:45.280] three congressmen right an astronaut it
[01:15:48.159] was pushed through
[01:15:49.520] and that's what that 22 million dollars
[01:15:51.600] by the way they spend more money on
[01:15:52.880] viagra every year than they do studying
[01:15:54.400] ufos if it was just this program which i
[01:15:56.239] think is funny but they probably make a
[01:15:57.760] lot more money from fragrance they
[01:15:59.040] probably do ufos well you never know how
[01:16:01.120] it seeds into population but anyway this
[01:16:03.440] program
[01:16:04.480] uh this is what was the mother program
[01:16:06.960] so it it got the 22 million and really
[01:16:09.440] it was to study skinwalker ranch oddly
[01:16:11.520] enough that 22 million all was inspired
[01:16:14.480] by the phenomenon they were seeing at
[01:16:15.679] skinwalker ranch because the scientists
[01:16:18.320] they're seeing vehicles come through
[01:16:20.560] like a space in the sky yeah we went
[01:16:23.440] there i went through it yeah we
[01:16:25.520] interviewed
[01:16:27.120] a bunch of people that seemed full of
[01:16:28.320] [ __ ] but a couple that didn't but it's
[01:16:30.000] very very interesting totally any
[01:16:32.080] there's but if you look i spent a lot of
[01:16:33.920] time in the area i'm not talking about
[01:16:35.520] those stories i'm saying there were
[01:16:36.560] scientists hired by the government right
[01:16:39.120] through bigelow to study the ranch
[01:16:40.880] because they thought it was important
[01:16:42.320] and you know whatever whatever the point
[01:16:44.640] is that 22 million was to study that
[01:16:46.719] then we have atip which is like an
[01:16:48.480] auxiliary kind of program of military
[01:16:50.719] settings like commander framers and that
[01:16:52.159] sort of thing this document is just one
[01:16:55.199] of those things that has now come
[01:16:57.120] forward that through the bigelow studies
[01:16:59.520] it was government funded and then it was
[01:17:01.520] personally funded and then government
[01:17:03.120] funded
[01:17:04.400] it's just one of those things that kind
[01:17:06.080] of shakes you because you got this
[01:17:08.080] military guy who can't get access
[01:17:11.199] because of the private industry that's
[01:17:12.960] holding these
[01:17:14.320] non-terrestrial materials that they
[01:17:16.159] can't study it so that's the the claim
[01:17:18.960] right now give it some time let people
[01:17:21.199] dig more into this
[01:17:22.880] it's fascinating man
[01:17:24.719] so
[01:17:25.760] you are
[01:17:28.000] essentially
[01:17:29.360] you're you're
[01:17:30.640] you're kicked out right you're you're
[01:17:32.560] out of the this program you can't work
[01:17:34.640] with these crafts anymore and
[01:17:37.199] do they give you any threats do they
[01:17:40.320] tell you what you have to do from here
[01:17:42.640] on out
[01:17:43.679] yeah well i mean the way it ended was
[01:17:47.280] um i told george knapp
[01:17:49.440] all this stuff and um you know he said
[01:17:52.080] well let's just get it on tape should
[01:17:53.920] something happen at least we have a
[01:17:55.360] record of it and um i don't remember
[01:17:58.800] what the emphasis was but um at some
[01:18:01.440] point george wanted to air it and he
[01:18:03.840] said
[01:18:04.719] you know you make the call on it
[01:18:07.040] and look if at any point you change your
[01:18:09.440] mind
[01:18:10.400] we won't air it and it came down to the
[01:18:13.280] day where george wants to put her on the
[01:18:15.040] five o'clock news he said hey this is
[01:18:16.640] important stuff people have to know
[01:18:18.080] about it and i thought it was too either
[01:18:21.040] it's kind of a crime i know you've got
[01:18:22.800] to keep the technology secret but you
[01:18:24.880] can't not tell everybody that this stuff
[01:18:27.440] is going on that we have you know actual
[01:18:30.159] hardware from another civilization it's
[01:18:32.159] a big [ __ ] deal you know probably the
[01:18:34.960] biggest one there ever was
[01:18:36.880] and um
[01:18:38.960] george
[01:18:40.480] said you know today's the day we got to
[01:18:42.159] put it on the news or something to that
[01:18:44.000] effect and when it came
[01:18:45.840] right down to the time to air it i
[01:18:47.600] changed my mind and i said
[01:18:50.000] we're not doing it
[01:18:51.600] and that's what turned into the famous
[01:18:53.920] wrestling match between me and george
[01:18:56.080] trying to get the tape but he won
[01:18:57.920] because he was a bigger guy so he
[01:19:00.000] actually physically wrestled well i
[01:19:01.679] think it was more of a pulling match we
[01:19:03.360] were i don't think we ever hit the
[01:19:04.560] ground but
[01:19:06.239] he got the tape he put it in the player
[01:19:08.080] and boom five o'clock news was on and
[01:19:10.080] then um
[01:19:11.199] i got a call after that and they said it
[01:19:13.760] was from dennis he said you have any
[01:19:15.679] idea what we're gonna do to you now and
[01:19:17.840] he hung up the phone that was the last
[01:19:19.520] communication i had with him
[01:19:22.400] and what has happened to you since then
[01:19:24.960] after that
[01:19:29.360] a lot of people i've known
[01:19:32.400] either were
[01:19:34.000] audited by the irs people had anybody i
[01:19:37.120] know that had clearances that worked in
[01:19:39.280] secure programs had the clearances
[01:19:41.520] pulled one of them uh
[01:19:44.400] friendly
[01:19:45.520] one of mine that jeremy knows he's going
[01:19:47.520] on camera with me soon he'll tell the
[01:19:49.120] story now that he's out of work up there
[01:19:51.280] he was working up at the tonopah test
[01:19:53.440] range waiting for his clearance to come
[01:19:55.120] through and you know they they pulled
[01:19:57.040] that it would it became it's like if
[01:19:59.600] they can't get the person that's
[01:20:01.120] involved they just create a problem for
[01:20:04.320] everybody that surrounds them and so i
[01:20:07.120] mean the way it turns out it hurt a lot
[01:20:09.120] of people's lives that i was connected
[01:20:11.760] to
[01:20:12.560] and that's an effective way of shutting
[01:20:15.280] someone up did you feel that by coming
[01:20:17.679] forward and going public they couldn't
[01:20:19.199] just snuff you out that was i mean
[01:20:21.040] that's what i was told and george and
[01:20:22.800] everybody you know said that you got oh
[01:20:24.719] it's you know it's public there's you
[01:20:26.400] know no one will touch you and i i you
[01:20:28.320] know i i fell for it um
[01:20:32.880] and i i wish you didn't yeah sometimes
[01:20:36.239] sometimes when it's just over stress and
[01:20:37.920] people are camping on your lawn yeah but
[01:20:40.080] it's this is gonna make things worse
[01:20:42.320] doing this no this is gonna make things
[01:20:44.840] better i was trying to tell them how is
[01:20:47.199] this gonna make things better because
[01:20:48.960] you're getting a real chance to explain
[01:20:50.719] yourself in a way that's going to
[01:20:53.040] make people who are not only work in the
[01:20:56.080] government people that are
[01:20:58.400] police officers and firefighters and
[01:21:00.719] first responders and doctors and
[01:21:02.719] scientists they're going to empathize
[01:21:04.880] emphasize
[01:21:06.239] empathize and and empathize with
[01:21:10.800] what it must be like to be a person like
[01:21:12.960] you in your 20s who gets thrust into
[01:21:15.920] this world unknowingly
[01:21:18.080] and confronted with
[01:21:20.560] one of the most if not the most
[01:21:22.960] important discovery in the history of
[01:21:25.679] human beings the big question
[01:21:28.400] are we alone it's the number one
[01:21:30.480] question there's two questions right
[01:21:32.480] what happens when we die and are we
[01:21:34.159] alone those are the two big questions
[01:21:36.320] right
[01:21:37.120] and if we're not alone and someone knows
[01:21:40.800] we're not alone and these some people
[01:21:43.600] who know we're not alone are these
[01:21:45.840] bungling
[01:21:47.360] sort of even if they weren't it's a
[01:21:49.760] crime that they're not telling the rest
[01:21:52.159] of us but i mean i don't mean bungling
[01:21:54.480] in terms they're incompetent i mean they
[01:21:56.000] can't be competent it seems to me to
[01:21:58.480] what you're describing that no one can
[01:22:00.000] be competent with this technology
[01:22:02.080] like the victoria victorian era scholars
[01:22:05.920] analyzing some sort of a nuclear reactor
[01:22:08.320] there's there's no way why do you think
[01:22:10.239] beyond that why do you think they're not
[01:22:11.440] telling us let's just make an assumption
[01:22:12.880] that this is true right now
[01:22:14.800] why do you think that they're not
[01:22:17.040] telling us that our government doesn't
[01:22:18.400] tell us what's your best well let me put
[01:22:20.159] it into
[01:22:21.120] what would you do if i'm the president
[01:22:24.480] okay and i get this information what do
[01:22:26.400] i do with this what do i do with this
[01:22:27.840] there's something that we don't know
[01:22:29.520] there's something we don't understand
[01:22:31.120] there's something that came from another
[01:22:32.400] world we got it tucked away in the
[01:22:34.000] mountains and uh just wanted you guys to
[01:22:35.920] know about it hey sleep tight hey
[01:22:37.679] american motto's on tonight who do you
[01:22:39.280] think's going to win yeah who's going to
[01:22:40.880] win america
[01:22:44.800] one is uncertainty and the other one is
[01:22:46.320] what bob and i have talked about a lot
[01:22:47.920] absolutely not knowing what to tell
[01:22:50.080] people because you don't really
[01:22:51.120] understand it yourself even though
[01:22:52.480] you've got what do you say if you want
[01:22:54.080] to run a government you want to get
[01:22:55.600] people to pay their taxes but there's
[01:22:56.880] something else yeah
[01:22:58.239] what do you say so you have these
[01:22:59.360] objects fine with impunity right and you
[01:23:01.520] that you have something else well not
[01:23:02.960] only that what can you say like how much
[01:23:05.120] do you really know i think it's mainly
[01:23:06.800] the technology yeah they just want to
[01:23:08.639] keep the technology secret because if
[01:23:10.719] there's
[01:23:11.600] yeah whoever gets this dude yeah
[01:23:14.320] you you control the where you become you
[01:23:16.320] literally become invincible once you
[01:23:18.560] master the technology you can't you
[01:23:20.800] cannot penetrate a field like that so
[01:23:23.440] imagine that's i know it's all science
[01:23:25.440] fiction but science fiction turns into
[01:23:27.120] science fact if you have
[01:23:29.360] real force fields around aircraft and
[01:23:31.840] battleships
[01:23:33.120] you you win
[01:23:34.800] you win you can force your will upon
[01:23:36.719] anybody and uh
[01:23:38.880] like i said there's so much more to the
[01:23:40.320] story when i was first there
[01:23:42.400] um
[01:23:43.679] there were russian scientists at s4 that
[01:23:46.480] was this was early on in the project so
[01:23:48.400] this was before operation paper clip
[01:23:50.239] became public as well right so i would
[01:23:51.920] imagine that was i don't know what the
[01:23:53.679] date yeah when was that when did was
[01:23:55.199] that
[01:23:56.159] 98 i think 98 yeah yeah i don't know the
[01:23:58.880] dates on it so it's roughly 10 years
[01:24:00.560] later operation paperclip becomes
[01:24:02.800] freedom of information actually it's
[01:24:04.159] about russia not germany he's not a
[01:24:06.080] russian scientist yeah but i mean
[01:24:08.000] russian scientists a lot of them came
[01:24:09.679] from germany a lot of those those rocket
[01:24:12.159] scientists that work with nasa they all
[01:24:14.000] came from nazi scientists got it so some
[01:24:16.719] russians got some of them i just know
[01:24:18.239] that and at some point there was intense
[01:24:20.800] cooperation with even exchanging some
[01:24:23.920] ideas on nuclear weapons and you know
[01:24:26.000] emp tests and stuff things we would
[01:24:28.159] never have discussed with them but at
[01:24:29.760] the same time it was in the late 80s uh
[01:24:32.639] they were involved and actually in the
[01:24:35.040] area at s4 with us so you got to
[01:24:38.000] communicate with these guys or you saw
[01:24:39.360] them no i knew they were there barry
[01:24:41.280] barry would talk about the commies that
[01:24:42.880] were there the communities the commies
[01:24:45.120] and um that was back when they were the
[01:24:47.040] commies
[01:24:50.320] and
[01:24:52.880] at some point it wasn't our group but at
[01:24:55.120] some point there was a big discovery
[01:24:57.840] made
[01:24:58.880] and this did not happen when i was there
[01:25:01.040] it happened in between my trips to there
[01:25:03.360] and after that apparently they decided
[01:25:05.840] it was just too cool to share with
[01:25:07.600] anybody and the russians were never
[01:25:09.280] allowed back on the base after that but
[01:25:11.360] you don't know what that discovery was
[01:25:12.560] no no like i said it wasn't my group so
[01:25:14.560] one of the other groups really found out
[01:25:17.199] something
[01:25:18.400] but the you know
[01:25:20.159] in typical american fashion is all right
[01:25:22.159] this is ours you guys get the hell out
[01:25:23.840] of here was there any inkling that any
[01:25:26.639] other government had something similar
[01:25:29.600] no no nothing that i had heard see that
[01:25:31.840] was the thing that always freaked me out
[01:25:33.360] was why if if something was so superior
[01:25:36.880] to human beings it's almost like
[01:25:38.159] visiting an ant colony like why would
[01:25:40.560] you go to the queen i don't give a [ __ ]
[01:25:41.920] who the queen is i'm a human i'm so
[01:25:44.000] superior to ants i don't care who you
[01:25:45.840] have running your hive i'm just gonna
[01:25:47.520] study it i think it's who got it who got
[01:25:50.239] it look at the
[01:25:51.600] you know rocket technology in germany
[01:25:53.600] but they got nine of them
[01:25:55.840] yeah that doesn't make sense to me
[01:25:57.920] either so they were either in the same
[01:26:00.239] area
[01:26:01.280] or you know one had clues to where
[01:26:03.440] others were
[01:26:04.880] i mean i don't know you you have to fill
[01:26:06.639] that in there but you're right i mean
[01:26:08.080] nine of them that's a that's a a big dig
[01:26:11.280] if it was archaeological well one of the
[01:26:13.199] more recent
[01:26:14.960] recent sightings and the these
[01:26:17.280] discussions that have been coming out
[01:26:18.800] recently from air force pilots and navy
[01:26:21.040] pilots they've been talking about things
[01:26:22.400] happening in the ocean
[01:26:24.080] and that that something
[01:26:25.760] go literally goes into the water or
[01:26:28.159] something maybe below the surface
[01:26:29.440] thinking about water 2004 tic tac nimitz
[01:26:31.760] case so that's when george knapp and i
[01:26:33.520] broke on the radio twice before the new
[01:26:35.040] york times so i know this one really
[01:26:36.400] well commander fravor and those pilots
[01:26:38.960] there was
[01:26:40.159] a disturbance on the surface of the
[01:26:42.480] water
[01:26:43.520] commander fravor visually saw what
[01:26:45.840] looked like similar to across some
[01:26:48.239] object so it's like as if you have some
[01:26:50.239] like coral under the water and you've
[01:26:51.520] got it's breaking over right the tic tac
[01:26:54.000] is doing this crazy maneuver that defies
[01:26:56.800] it's a gravity-propelled system they saw
[01:26:58.480] it in the sky before they saw in the
[01:26:59.920] water right yeah so there was um there
[01:27:02.000] were radar that was picking this these
[01:27:03.600] things coming down from 80 000 feet
[01:27:05.360] dropping to 50 feet in less than a
[01:27:07.280] second this is it jamie what is this
[01:27:09.360] this is actually on the news today there
[01:27:10.880] was a briefing so a lot of people get
[01:27:12.560] this confused not this one then either
[01:27:14.639] no so
[01:27:15.600] that is called the gimbal so there's
[01:27:17.600] three videos released by the pentagon
[01:27:19.920] that are all active play and keep the
[01:27:21.440] volume off
[01:27:23.280] i i would i would really just pay
[01:27:24.719] attention to the source video so you've
[01:27:26.400] got the tic tac which is this object the
[01:27:28.480] commander fravor saw another pilot
[01:27:30.800] filmed it with a flir pod and it goes
[01:27:33.679] but this one you see is really important
[01:27:35.360] to bob's story the gimbal craft it's
[01:27:38.480] been recently analyzed it's fleer not
[01:27:41.360] only does it it's definitive that it's
[01:27:44.080] not a conventional anything by the by
[01:27:46.800] its movements but there's a pocket of
[01:27:48.639] cold air
[01:27:49.920] around a propulsion source
[01:27:52.159] so this object by the way sat stationary
[01:27:55.120] for days if not weeks it sat stationary
[01:27:58.080] yeah they found it 11 hours later and
[01:28:00.239] they were saying there's no way this
[01:28:01.760] thing using that kind of energy to go
[01:28:03.840] that fast could just hover the amount of
[01:28:05.920] time and by the way you're seeing a very
[01:28:08.000] small part of what happened that day
[01:28:10.080] this object was not alone
[01:28:12.320] and so hopefully that information comes
[01:28:14.719] out and we can i mean i wish we had
[01:28:16.960] video of it i'm sure we'd all want to
[01:28:18.480] see it
[01:28:19.600] but that's called the gimbal that was
[01:28:21.199] east coast
[01:28:22.560] right 2015.
[01:28:24.960] west coast 2004 was the tic tac
[01:28:27.600] the disturbance on the water commander
[01:28:29.600] fraber believes there was something
[01:28:31.120] under that water that was causing that
[01:28:33.040] disturbance when the tic tac was coming
[01:28:34.480] around to doing it
[01:28:35.840] with inside the the people that are
[01:28:37.679] studying this they're thinking maybe the
[01:28:39.679] tic tac system was causing the
[01:28:41.520] disturbance
[01:28:42.400] but the uso unidentified submerged
[01:28:45.440] object that he visually saw
[01:28:48.480] uh the whole interesting thing about
[01:28:49.920] that is i would love bob to describe it
[01:28:52.320] is why it doesn't matter if these craft
[01:28:54.560] are in
[01:28:55.520] space
[01:28:56.560] air or water why doesn't it matter i
[01:28:58.800] love when he talks about this [ __ ]
[01:29:00.960] well first of all commander fravor was
[01:29:02.800] the f-18 pilot off the nimitz that was
[01:29:05.760] sent out to find out what this stuff is
[01:29:07.600] but and it wasn't just i got a chance to
[01:29:10.800] talk to him recently and it wasn't just
[01:29:13.440] a radar image i mean commander fravor
[01:29:15.760] had eyes on it for over five minutes
[01:29:18.800] watching this thing as four other pilots
[01:29:21.360] did so this wasn't a radar blip or
[01:29:23.280] anything i mean these guys were watching
[01:29:24.880] this thing but
[01:29:27.679] you know one of the things i think in
[01:29:29.199] the gimbal video
[01:29:31.840] the way the craft that we worked on
[01:29:34.800] flies
[01:29:36.239] is it doesn't fly like
[01:29:39.280] a conventional aircraft does and it
[01:29:41.520] doesn't fly like a flying saucer with in
[01:29:43.920] a 1950s movie it flies belly first
[01:29:47.760] i mean it may set down conventionally
[01:29:50.639] but it always rotates it does a role
[01:29:53.040] maneuver puts its belly towards the
[01:29:55.040] target and then moves away so it's like
[01:29:57.280] a car flying with the wheels forward
[01:30:00.000] right
[01:30:00.800] right
[01:30:01.679] i mean it may lift land on the wheels
[01:30:03.600] but at some point when it wants to leave
[01:30:05.600] flips flips up points the wheels where
[01:30:07.679] it wants to go and takes off and the
[01:30:09.360] gimbal video you can see the craft do
[01:30:12.000] the roll maneuver and uh
[01:30:14.480] it's really interesting it behaves
[01:30:15.840] exactly like the crafts that i worked on
[01:30:18.560] so
[01:30:19.520] much like we have different shaped
[01:30:21.120] aircrafts and fighter jets and cars they
[01:30:24.239] probably have different shapes of these
[01:30:27.199] objects that operate under similar
[01:30:29.520] principles
[01:30:30.719] right but they all have the same power
[01:30:33.040] source they all have the same power
[01:30:34.159] source and we're also dealing with
[01:30:36.480] if you think about
[01:30:38.800] the laws of technological progression
[01:30:41.760] you know you think of moore's law and
[01:30:43.520] you think of how things accelerate
[01:30:46.320] you've got to think that if this
[01:30:47.920] civilization is who knows how many years
[01:30:50.560] more advanced than we are
[01:30:52.239] if not even years i mean i mean we're
[01:30:54.800] thinking about in terms of conventional
[01:30:56.239] terms right the way the way we look at
[01:30:57.760] the world i mean they meet they might be
[01:31:00.400] just
[01:31:01.199] superior in terms of their intellect
[01:31:03.760] they've got to be maybe maybe we don't
[01:31:05.920] know right well the only reason i
[01:31:07.760] i say that is because
[01:31:11.360] look everyone doesn't necessarily start
[01:31:13.679] at a steam engine right and go to an
[01:31:15.760] internal combustion engine and then you
[01:31:18.080] know electric power nuclear power and go
[01:31:20.000] up the ladder that we right come on um
[01:31:22.960] you know the binary if the stuff is true
[01:31:24.960] about the origin and the binary star
[01:31:26.800] system and they have heavier elements
[01:31:28.560] that we don't have and this element
[01:31:30.800] stable element 115 is a naturally
[01:31:32.960] occurring material
[01:31:34.560] maybe that's the first thing they
[01:31:36.159] started experimenting with and the
[01:31:38.080] version of their steam engine their
[01:31:39.760] first product was something that
[01:31:42.400] operated like this and actually when
[01:31:44.080] they came to earth to look around or you
[01:31:46.480] know whatever they were amazed at the
[01:31:48.320] stuff we were doing these guys burned
[01:31:50.080] stuff and squirted out the back to go
[01:31:51.840] forward so right um right you know who
[01:31:54.560] says they follow any kind of normal
[01:31:56.080] progression like that my my thought was
[01:31:58.880] if you went back to the 1400s and then
[01:32:01.840] you went from 1400 to 1500 you're not
[01:32:04.239] going to see that much of a difference
[01:32:05.600] technologically right if you go from
[01:32:08.560] 2000 to 3000 i assume there's going to
[01:32:11.120] be a radical change right well the yeah
[01:32:13.679] the delta the rate of change is is
[01:32:16.880] magnificently higher than it used to be
[01:32:19.840] right so if you think about what they
[01:32:22.960] had in 1988 and you think about what
[01:32:25.520] they probably have in 2019
[01:32:28.960] just
[01:32:30.239] logically seems like they would advance
[01:32:32.639] i would think so
[01:32:34.400] the only
[01:32:35.360] question is like
[01:32:36.639] are they living
[01:32:38.639] is that a living thing in terms of like
[01:32:40.719] a biological thing
[01:32:42.480] or are they some sort of an artificially
[01:32:45.520] created creation like we are working on
[01:32:47.840] right now i mean we're in the middle of
[01:32:49.199] working on artificial reality artificial
[01:32:52.159] beings sentient beings artificial
[01:32:54.080] intelligence there's cons silicon based
[01:32:56.239] life forms that they're essentially
[01:32:57.440] trying to create boston dynamic or was
[01:33:00.000] it boston dynamics of the company
[01:33:02.239] robots yeah you can make machines out of
[01:33:04.080] flesh right so a cyborg or cybernetic
[01:33:06.800] organism is just that you know that's
[01:33:08.239] what a lot of people think those like
[01:33:09.679] gray things are you know that people
[01:33:11.440] call the grays yeah it's like they were
[01:33:13.360] like they're machines printed from flash
[01:33:16.239] so what you're saying is like well they
[01:33:18.080] could just be no synthetic
[01:33:20.400] they don't even need to be you know
[01:33:22.560] machines well they seem to have no sex
[01:33:24.719] organs the way they're described by
[01:33:25.920] people that have had interactions with
[01:33:27.440] them assuming these people aren't liars
[01:33:28.880] right or crazy or whatever right that
[01:33:31.600] they have no sex organs and that they
[01:33:34.480] don't seem to have any muscle that is
[01:33:36.639] almost like a frame right and they have
[01:33:38.880] enormous heads i mean if you look at
[01:33:42.880] australopithecus or depictions of you
[01:33:45.520] know ancient hominids and then you go to
[01:33:47.120] human beings one of the things you see
[01:33:48.960] is bigger heads and weaker bodies well
[01:33:50.880] you see a clear progression of evolution
[01:33:53.040] too where for something like that i
[01:33:55.679] would lean towards a synthetic organism
[01:33:58.320] because it looks like it was made for a
[01:34:00.080] specific task there was no reproductive
[01:34:02.400] organs so i mean that almost kind of
[01:34:04.560] leaves out any kind of you know physical
[01:34:06.880] evolution right well that's also our
[01:34:08.880] bottleneck right our bottleneck is our
[01:34:10.639] biological imperative the the need to
[01:34:13.280] breed emotions fear anxiety all these
[01:34:16.800] different things that exist in order to
[01:34:19.520] force us into making sure we reproduce i
[01:34:22.800] mean that's essentially there's human
[01:34:24.320] reward systems that aren't necessary
[01:34:26.880] once they can figure out a way to make
[01:34:28.719] some sort of sentient artificial life
[01:34:31.679] some sort of thing that doesn't have
[01:34:33.120] these biological limitations that we
[01:34:34.800] have by the way these craft all these
[01:34:36.960] different kinds have been reported
[01:34:38.159] because it was confusing i always
[01:34:39.120] thought of flying saucers what i heard
[01:34:40.560] bob lazar talk about flying saucer right
[01:34:43.040] but if you look back in history people
[01:34:44.719] have always reported the weirdest shapes
[01:34:46.960] like none of them are alike you know
[01:34:49.120] there are the saucers but you got cigar
[01:34:51.040] shaped you got you know the top hat
[01:34:53.120] shape you have orbs why maybe they're
[01:34:56.000] serving different purposes they're doing
[01:34:57.760] different things like we'd use different
[01:34:59.280] tools and i want to be clear the reason
[01:35:01.840] i know that memo is real is because i
[01:35:03.840] spent a lot of time with dr edgar
[01:35:05.520] mitchell six man to walk on the moon
[01:35:07.360] last guy to film him before he died
[01:35:09.360] right
[01:35:10.320] that's how i know i don't want any
[01:35:11.840] journalists thinking i got it from
[01:35:13.120] anywhere else i know because of dr
[01:35:14.880] mitchell and he said the same thing
[01:35:16.480] maybe these things are
[01:35:18.480] performing different tasks you know and
[01:35:21.199] that's what i seem if you if you think
[01:35:22.960] about what an alien is in terms of our
[01:35:25.360] our
[01:35:26.159] the sort of iconic image of an alien
[01:35:28.320] like the steven spielberg closing cows
[01:35:30.320] are the third time the third kind alien
[01:35:33.679] they seem like
[01:35:35.840] what we'd assume a human being would
[01:35:37.840] eventually become right
[01:35:39.760] and if these things are tiny human
[01:35:41.520] beings are smaller than they've ever
[01:35:42.719] been before they're weaker than they've
[01:35:43.920] ever been before and there seems to be a
[01:35:45.360] trend in that direction and this trend
[01:35:48.080] seems to be amplified by our
[01:35:50.560] technological progression
[01:35:52.480] there our
[01:35:53.520] lack of need for muscle strength and our
[01:35:55.840] lack of need for violence and we're
[01:35:57.920] moving in a society to try to get away
[01:36:00.320] from all the things that we think are
[01:36:01.760] abhorrent about human beings and the
[01:36:03.840] terrible behaviors that we have if we
[01:36:06.719] one day do give birth to some sort of an
[01:36:10.239] artificial being like marshall mcluhan's
[01:36:13.440] uh
[01:36:14.400] quote we are the sex organs of the
[01:36:16.639] machine world
[01:36:18.080] you know that one day okay i'll buy this
[01:36:20.560] yeah mcloone was brilliant and that that
[01:36:23.040] quote has always been one of my
[01:36:24.239] favorites because okay what are we doing
[01:36:26.480] when we're constantly technologically
[01:36:28.400] innovating we're constantly looking for
[01:36:30.639] faster cars better computers bigger
[01:36:32.719] screens faster more resolution more
[01:36:35.040] pixels more this more that higher
[01:36:36.560] bandwidth 5g 10g right what are we doing
[01:36:39.280] we're moving into this in this if you
[01:36:41.440] just follow it objectively stay stand
[01:36:43.679] back don't attach yourself or your
[01:36:45.360] civilization your culture to it and look
[01:36:47.040] at what it is we're moving
[01:36:49.679] a hundred percent towards technological
[01:36:52.320] innovation if you looked at this species
[01:36:54.400] from afar and if you weren't a part of
[01:36:56.320] it you would say what does this species
[01:36:57.679] do oh they make things they make things
[01:37:00.000] better every year beehives are the same
[01:37:02.080] [ __ ] thing that you see 10 years ago
[01:37:04.000] you go by you see a beehive it's amazing
[01:37:05.920] it's cool but they're the same [ __ ]
[01:37:07.280] thing they figured out how to do it they
[01:37:08.800] make a beehive right we don't do that we
[01:37:11.119] make better things what would you
[01:37:12.560] constantly and at some point i think
[01:37:14.719] that technology is going to fuse with us
[01:37:16.719] yes and we're going to become it's
[01:37:17.920] already happening yeah elon musk talked
[01:37:19.679] about it on my podcast that we are
[01:37:21.119] cyborgs you just carry it in your pocket
[01:37:22.719] it's a phone it answers any question you
[01:37:24.719] want you can talk to it it'll give you
[01:37:26.480] the answers the answers instantaneously
[01:37:28.880] it navigates you it has all your phone
[01:37:31.119] numbers and it has all your contacts you
[01:37:32.719] can get a hold of people people
[01:37:33.840] listening to you through it it's
[01:37:35.360] connecting us in ways even involuntarily
[01:37:37.760] haptics that kind of thing yeah it's
[01:37:39.280] also getting on your wrist how many
[01:37:40.800] people have eye watches apple watches
[01:37:43.520] right and that's only because we can't
[01:37:45.360] integrate them yet but you know that
[01:37:47.040] point is 100
[01:37:48.400] yeah i didn't joke about it last night
[01:37:50.080] but i have a bit about it that i do
[01:37:51.920] about the the integration between humans
[01:37:53.679] and technology that's what would you do
[01:37:55.679] if you were a hyper intelligence right
[01:37:58.159] would you do the work yourself or would
[01:37:59.920] you create some cool things called like
[01:38:01.760] humans to do it for you would you create
[01:38:03.920] things that are cybernetic organisms to
[01:38:05.520] come in with machines and do it for you
[01:38:07.840] if you're a hyper intelligence that has
[01:38:09.840] kind of changed like you've described
[01:38:11.760] you'd probably create workers right well
[01:38:13.840] that's a vast conspiracy theory i'm not
[01:38:16.159] talking about conspiracy but it is a
[01:38:17.600] kind of a conspiracy i'm asking you well
[01:38:19.600] i mean i don't think it's necessarily
[01:38:21.600] that i mean you could look at it that
[01:38:23.600] way but that is the way a conspiracy
[01:38:25.360] theorist would look at it the way i
[01:38:26.480] would look at it is like there's
[01:38:27.520] obviously a progression going on a
[01:38:29.360] biological progression there's some sort
[01:38:31.679] of an integration with technology
[01:38:33.440] there's some sort of imperative this
[01:38:35.360] need for technological innovation it's
[01:38:37.600] inescapable everyone has it we and i
[01:38:39.840] think it's attached to materialism in
[01:38:41.440] some sort of a strange way because so
[01:38:43.600] many people work so hard to get new
[01:38:45.760] things and like god that seems so
[01:38:47.520] illogical and preposterous and it makes
[01:38:49.040] people unhappy and depression's on the
[01:38:50.400] rise but nobody seems to be able to stop
[01:38:52.000] it like why is that well maybe it's
[01:38:54.719] because we are the
[01:38:57.760] caterpillars that give birth to the
[01:38:59.679] butterfly maybe that's what we're doing
[01:39:02.080] very well what our job is to do is to
[01:39:04.480] make some sort of a cocoon and we don't
[01:39:06.480] even know we're doing it while we're
[01:39:08.400] doing it do you think a caterpillar is
[01:39:10.159] well hey caterpillar what are you doing
[01:39:11.840] man just i'm doing my thing it's my job
[01:39:14.159] i have to make a cocoon then become like
[01:39:15.600] a body this could be a natural part of
[01:39:17.280] evolution it could be that we're just
[01:39:18.960] supposed to do this exactly and make the
[01:39:20.960] jump to
[01:39:21.920] some sort of mechanized right
[01:39:24.239] yeah non-biological an orangutan that is
[01:39:27.440] uh fishing with a spear
[01:39:30.239] no they they've figured out how to fish
[01:39:32.800] with spears there's
[01:39:34.320] uh there's um
[01:39:36.080] primatologists
[01:39:37.440] without somebody showing them how to
[01:39:39.040] fish no they've imitated human beings
[01:39:41.119] doing it and now they do it but they do
[01:39:43.440] it independently they're not trained
[01:39:45.679] orangutans they're wild around look at
[01:39:47.440] that
[01:39:48.960] there's a wild rice okay that's
[01:39:50.400] impressive very impressive well there's
[01:39:53.360] these primatologists i guess you would
[01:39:54.960] call them primatologists that's a term
[01:39:56.639] that's a great biologist biologists that
[01:39:58.639] believe that
[01:40:00.320] monkeys and chimps
[01:40:02.239] and some of the great apes are moving
[01:40:04.639] into the stone age that they've
[01:40:06.080] currently entered the stone age like
[01:40:08.159] they're not staying what they were a
[01:40:10.880] hundred thousand years ago or five
[01:40:12.560] hundred thousand years ago but they're
[01:40:14.000] actively using tools and they're
[01:40:16.000] experimenting with different different
[01:40:17.760] ways to use those tools and then they're
[01:40:19.840] making tools out of stone they're making
[01:40:21.760] tools out of sticks and they're they're
[01:40:23.280] using them
[01:40:24.560] well this might just be what happens
[01:40:27.920] this might just be what happens
[01:40:30.480] i mean why else why would why the [ __ ]
[01:40:32.560] we work so hard i mean i i was i was
[01:40:34.800] driving to la this morning um i had a
[01:40:36.880] doctor's appointment so i was on the 405
[01:40:38.960] at uh eight in the morning like jesus
[01:40:40.960] christ like this is so crazy when you're
[01:40:43.119] in the 405 in l.a at eight o'clock in
[01:40:44.639] the morning you see literally a million
[01:40:46.320] cars
[01:40:47.199] and this is everywhere you go as people
[01:40:49.119] but and also i'm in a tesla so i have it
[01:40:52.000] on autopilot so i'm there sitting i'm
[01:40:54.239] listening to a podcast i barely have my
[01:40:56.400] hand on the wheel i'm not touching [ __ ]
[01:40:58.239] this car's driving me along i'm not even
[01:41:00.719] doing anything i'm just i'm just hanging
[01:41:02.880] out it's so much less stressful by the
[01:41:04.560] way to do that that way right so it
[01:41:06.239] encourages you to innovate it encourages
[01:41:08.639] you to embrace this new technology i got
[01:41:11.199] this giant screen it's showing me the
[01:41:12.880] navigation in front of me i'll be there
[01:41:15.119] five minutes early excellent and i'm
[01:41:17.119] listening to a podcast wirelessly it's
[01:41:19.760] bluetooth screen streaming from my phone
[01:41:22.000] and i pulled that podcast which came out
[01:41:24.159] today out of the [ __ ] sky and i'm
[01:41:26.480] listening to it and i'm all comfortable
[01:41:28.239] in my nice little car just driving on my
[01:41:30.159] way to the doctor's office this is
[01:41:31.600] irresistible stuff yeah yeah different
[01:41:33.440] than your walkman yeah you know that can
[01:41:35.360] be irresistible
[01:41:37.040] it is a resistance it's frighteningly
[01:41:38.800] irresistible but is it frightening i
[01:41:40.400] mean if you were a monkey right if you
[01:41:42.080] were um an australiopithecus would you
[01:41:44.560] go man i don't want to [ __ ] be a
[01:41:46.080] person i live in a house that's [ __ ]
[01:41:48.320] i like just swinging around on trees i
[01:41:50.560] like uh running from jaguars this is
[01:41:52.400] life guys life is running from
[01:41:54.480] crocodiles it's not living in a [ __ ]
[01:41:56.000] suburban there's probably some that are
[01:41:57.679] like that yeah i don't think so i think
[01:41:59.920] i think
[01:42:00.880] when it comes we're going to embrace it
[01:42:02.560] we're going to embrace it the same way
[01:42:03.920] you embrace cell phones the same way
[01:42:05.840] embrace television there's going to be a
[01:42:07.440] few holdouts i don't even have an email
[01:42:08.960] address man those are those there's a
[01:42:10.880] few and far between the good luck with
[01:42:12.480] that [ __ ] face go move to the woods ted
[01:42:14.239] kaczynski yeah i was just going to throw
[01:42:16.159] ted's against
[01:42:17.280] ted kaczynski was right this is
[01:42:18.880] something that i think about sometimes
[01:42:20.239] when i get really high that ted
[01:42:22.159] kaczynski was a part of the harvard lsd
[01:42:25.199] studies this has been proven ted
[01:42:26.880] kaczynski they cooked his [ __ ] brain
[01:42:29.119] when he was at harvard and then when he
[01:42:30.800] went over to berkeley and became a
[01:42:32.000] professor his goal was to make enough
[01:42:33.920] money so that he could
[01:42:35.360] implement this program and live in the
[01:42:37.119] woods and then write his manifesto and
[01:42:39.119] start killing people that were involved
[01:42:41.199] in propagating technology he was
[01:42:43.119] expunged from the harvard uh logs by the
[01:42:46.480] way this is something my friend just
[01:42:47.760] called me about so there's like this uh
[01:42:50.239] private library and they used to print
[01:42:52.719] people's names whenever they were part
[01:42:54.159] of a university and he was one of a
[01:42:55.920] handful of people that were expunged
[01:42:58.159] from it i want to jump back to the one
[01:43:00.080] thing joe
[01:43:01.440] i want to be very careful with that word
[01:43:02.960] conspiracy theorist
[01:43:04.639] what i was what i was saying to you was
[01:43:06.639] we we terraform our earth right
[01:43:08.960] we terraform we change the environment
[01:43:10.719] we do all this innovation
[01:43:12.480] what is stopping us from thinking that
[01:43:14.639] that's not being done i'm not saying it
[01:43:16.400] is i'm saying what's stopping us from
[01:43:18.080] thinking that that's being done on a
[01:43:20.000] much bigger level on a cosmic level you
[01:43:22.560] mean like aliens coming down doing that
[01:43:24.239] to humans i'm telling you that there is
[01:43:26.320] something here that's there's a fact you
[01:43:28.400] know there's something there a craft
[01:43:30.400] they're here they're not ours they're
[01:43:31.920] here so the question is
[01:43:34.239] what is that about and i'm just looking
[01:43:35.920] at what we do with what you're
[01:43:37.280] describing with technology
[01:43:39.199] i think it's much more likely that the
[01:43:41.360] same way we observe chimps and we
[01:43:43.760] observed that they are now in the stone
[01:43:45.679] age that they're observing us and that
[01:43:47.679] they're recognizing that there is a
[01:43:49.040] pattern that there is uh there's steps
[01:43:51.280] that happen i mean carl sagan talked
[01:43:53.440] about the different levels of
[01:43:54.960] civilization and that you know if we
[01:43:56.639] don't get past certain levels we're
[01:43:58.560] never going to reach this i mean we're
[01:44:00.639] in type 1 civilization we're going to
[01:44:01.920] stay at type zero well we're in this
[01:44:03.520] warring
[01:44:04.719] polluting yeah pillaging we're awesome
[01:44:07.679] civilizations
[01:44:08.960] are awesome it's like well we're awesome
[01:44:10.480] in a lot of ways you know but in that
[01:44:12.000] way we're not well yeah we're we're
[01:44:14.000] children that have immense power that we
[01:44:16.080] didn't really the other thing is you're
[01:44:17.920] using the immense power that other
[01:44:20.159] people have created right i mean even
[01:44:22.080] when you're driving a car you're
[01:44:23.199] stomping on the gas like whew you didn't
[01:44:25.360] invent the [ __ ] engine you didn't
[01:44:27.280] invent tires there's all these things
[01:44:29.199] that were in involved in the creation of
[01:44:31.360] this thing that is
[01:44:33.600] really outside of your
[01:44:34.790] [Music]
[01:44:35.920] grasp of understanding but yet you have
[01:44:38.159] the ability to use it like a person with
[01:44:39.760] a gun i'm just gonna bang bang bang
[01:44:41.760] people you don't you didn't invent a gun
[01:44:43.679] so like you've you've without the
[01:44:45.600] intellect to craft and engineer and and
[01:44:49.760] and manifest these creations you just
[01:44:52.159] have access to them because you have
[01:44:53.520] paper or you have bitcoin or you have
[01:44:55.360] whatever the [ __ ] you're using using a
[01:44:56.719] credit card now you have
[01:44:58.880] almost no responsibility you just you
[01:45:01.280] could just flippantly use these things
[01:45:03.360] which is why
[01:45:04.560] we uh
[01:45:05.679] you know we're very childlike in our
[01:45:07.440] actions because we haven't had to earn
[01:45:10.320] the responsibility we haven't had to
[01:45:12.000] earn these things that we've been able
[01:45:14.400] to have and you've only been able to
[01:45:16.239] have them because other people have
[01:45:18.239] innovated and spent
[01:45:20.000] ungodly amounts of time and effort and
[01:45:22.239] focus in the lab to create these things
[01:45:24.320] and then they've all put them together
[01:45:26.159] and then what is the what's the reason
[01:45:27.920] to put them together to profit well
[01:45:29.440] what's the reason of prop well why are
[01:45:31.040] you doing this so you can buy more
[01:45:32.080] things what are we doing what are we
[01:45:34.159] doing we're making better things that's
[01:45:36.400] what we do that's all that's all we do
[01:45:38.159] is make better things yeah why the [ __ ]
[01:45:39.679] do we need oil why do we need oil why
[01:45:41.360] can't we just burn wood and stay home
[01:45:43.679] why can't we grow chickens and food in
[01:45:45.840] the backyard why can't we do well we
[01:45:47.600] [ __ ] can we certainly can people do
[01:45:49.679] do it but we decide to make that almost
[01:45:52.239] impossible our preferred way of living
[01:45:54.159] is to stuff everyone into a very small
[01:45:56.560] area where no one grows anything other
[01:45:57.920] than weed
[01:45:59.119] this is what la is la is 20 million
[01:46:02.080] people with hard surfaces as many hard
[01:46:04.560] surfaces as you can boy if you've got an
[01:46:06.400] acre backyard in l.a holy [ __ ] look at
[01:46:08.480] all that green this is amazing well no
[01:46:10.639] that's the [ __ ] earth coming through
[01:46:13.280] this weird sort of creation that we've
[01:46:15.920] put on top of the earth but the goal is
[01:46:17.760] that like new york city that's there's
[01:46:19.520] none of it right you just got you've got
[01:46:21.360] central park and they just got human
[01:46:23.199] [ __ ] you stacked up no one's growing
[01:46:25.600] anything and then constant work
[01:46:27.840] everyone's up early go go go
[01:46:30.800] innovate progress make that money so you
[01:46:33.199] can buy more things and every year hey
[01:46:35.840] apple where's this [ __ ] new phone as
[01:46:38.000] if your phone isn't good enough yeah
[01:46:40.320] like your phone's taking pictures and
[01:46:42.159] videos and people are calling you and
[01:46:44.560] you got applications to tell you which
[01:46:46.159] way the wind's blowing it's not good
[01:46:48.000] enough a blink of an eye blink of an eye
[01:46:49.920] it's all gone though that you know like
[01:46:51.440] 10 000 years and the hoover dam goes or
[01:46:53.600] whatever you know mount rushmore
[01:46:55.199] disintegrates so it's amazing because we
[01:46:57.199] have created that and and everything's
[01:46:58.960] trying to spring up through that we keep
[01:47:00.400] it maintenance down but we're we're a
[01:47:02.480] blink man something hits
[01:47:04.400] but we don't think that way well you
[01:47:05.840] know you think in terms of your own life
[01:47:07.600] right you think in terms of what you
[01:47:09.199] want and what you need right now
[01:47:11.360] you know what it's we are in many ways
[01:47:14.000] this combination of this weird primitive
[01:47:16.800] ape-like thing
[01:47:18.639] with
[01:47:19.679] the ability to calculate and manipulate
[01:47:22.719] our world and our environment that makes
[01:47:24.480] us wholly unique on top of that with
[01:47:26.080] existential angst and and fear so what
[01:47:28.960] do you do with that we [ __ ] water it
[01:47:30.239] down with the anti-depressants give
[01:47:32.320] these [ __ ] people some [ __ ] that
[01:47:33.520] keeps them moving
[01:47:34.719] they're worried about the future they're
[01:47:36.000] trying to figure out what reality is if
[01:47:37.520] this you're on a goddamn convertible
[01:47:39.440] spaceship spinning a thousand miles an
[01:47:41.199] hour hurling through infinity there's no
[01:47:43.760] meaning to this thing just keep making
[01:47:45.440] [ __ ] keep making stuff and then one day
[01:47:48.719] they're going to be able to hit that
[01:47:49.920] switch and this life will be born out of
[01:47:53.040] innovation and thinking and progress and
[01:47:56.159] technology and more than likely it's
[01:47:59.280] probably going to be what we're seeing
[01:48:01.040] that these things are that you're you're
[01:48:03.280] observing
[01:48:04.560] i'm not observing them but yeah
[01:48:06.080] someone's obviously
[01:48:07.199] are you implying that they're us
[01:48:09.119] i don't think they are us but i think
[01:48:11.040] they are what happens when things keep
[01:48:13.520] going
[01:48:15.040] it's not us just like we're not monkeys
[01:48:16.960] right i'm not a chimp
[01:48:19.040] oh that'd be cool
[01:48:20.239] they're from here is your idea no no no
[01:48:23.280] that this is what happens all over the
[01:48:25.040] universe right yeah this is what
[01:48:26.960] happened look here's the thing you know
[01:48:28.560] i went to see brian cox's um
[01:48:31.360] he has this amazing live show with robin
[01:48:34.639] ins where they
[01:48:35.920] they have these led screens these huge
[01:48:39.199] screens with high resolution depictions
[01:48:42.000] of the cosmos and one of the most
[01:48:43.600] mind-blowing things
[01:48:45.679] was he has this large-scale image of the
[01:48:48.719] universe and it shows all the individual
[01:48:51.520] galaxies of the universe and it just
[01:48:52.880] keeps moving through all these galaxies
[01:48:55.040] in three dimensions
[01:48:56.400] and it's [ __ ] incredible but what's
[01:48:58.560] stunning is the relative uniformity of
[01:49:01.199] it even at you know i mean you're
[01:49:03.440] obviously looking at
[01:49:05.520] an incredibly small depiction of
[01:49:07.920] something that's immensely large like a
[01:49:10.000] galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars
[01:49:11.760] you're seeing it as this little dot but
[01:49:13.600] this little dot that's flying through
[01:49:16.159] space surrounded by other little darts
[01:49:18.719] with very similarly spaced distances
[01:49:22.080] yeah
[01:49:23.360] yeah so mike if we see uniformity in
[01:49:25.840] that form in terms of like the distance
[01:49:28.320] between galaxy so many galaxies is so
[01:49:30.639] it's so similar they might vary slightly
[01:49:32.960] and that slightly might be hundreds of
[01:49:34.400] millions of light years right but but
[01:49:36.400] but there's so much uniformity why would
[01:49:38.880] we not assume that that uniformity
[01:49:41.040] exists pretty much everywhere and that
[01:49:43.119] all these things that you're seeing that
[01:49:44.560] are so similar you do see binary star
[01:49:47.199] systems you do see single star systems
[01:49:49.199] like star but there's also some some
[01:49:50.880] speculation that earth and that our
[01:49:52.480] solar system is one time was a binary
[01:49:54.480] star system right i mean that's one of
[01:49:56.239] the the speculations about that that
[01:49:58.400] object that they find outside the kuiper
[01:50:00.400] belt that they think is 10 times larger
[01:50:01.920] than earth they think it might have been
[01:50:03.199] at one point in time a star but this
[01:50:06.000] this uniformity that you see why
[01:50:07.840] wouldn't we think that that
[01:50:09.360] that has its same implications
[01:50:11.760] biologically that there's some sort of a
[01:50:13.840] biological uniformity and that this
[01:50:15.840] happens
[01:50:16.880] given the right sets of circumstances
[01:50:19.440] you should tell them some of the stuff
[01:50:20.800] that you read that you don't know is
[01:50:22.880] true i mean if the the stuff was true
[01:50:24.960] about the
[01:50:26.159] propulsion stuff i mean anyway he well
[01:50:28.159] what have you read
[01:50:29.440] what you saw too and you know what are
[01:50:31.679] you talking about
[01:50:34.000] spill the beans bob
[01:50:36.159] i gotta poke the bear here let's get
[01:50:37.600] some more liquor in you
[01:50:39.840] the um
[01:50:42.080] well i mean
[01:50:43.679] the again the the only thing i could
[01:50:46.320] verify was what i had my hands on um
[01:50:49.840] they were
[01:50:51.040] you know there was talk of weapon
[01:50:52.719] systems that there were different
[01:50:54.320] projects project galileo project
[01:50:56.800] sidekick was supposed to be weapon
[01:50:58.320] applications of the craft
[01:51:00.960] project looking glass had to do with
[01:51:03.199] time any effects of time in the craft
[01:51:05.600] now i don't think we're not
[01:51:07.600] talking about making a time machine like
[01:51:09.679] in science fiction but we're talking
[01:51:11.600] about you know small distortions
[01:51:13.440] intentional distortions of time and how
[01:51:15.840] that can be
[01:51:16.960] used
[01:51:18.000] you know as a uh not as a well it was
[01:51:21.199] part of a weapon program how are you
[01:51:22.800] informed in this these again where
[01:51:24.480] there's just those small briefings that
[01:51:26.239] i read but
[01:51:27.920] again i don't really like to talk about
[01:51:29.600] those because i don't have any
[01:51:30.880] information on them and it was just you
[01:51:32.719] know small briefings but he told
[01:51:34.480] commander fravor that what he saw might
[01:51:36.639] have been a time dilation
[01:51:39.360] well it could be because gravity affects
[01:51:41.520] time you know space time i'm sure you've
[01:51:43.679] heard of that and um
[01:51:46.400] you know what what commander fraber saw
[01:51:49.199] as he was in the f-18 approaching it he
[01:51:52.239] said that he described it as a
[01:51:54.960] ping-pong ball in a cup and shaking it
[01:51:56.639] back and forth it was moving that fast
[01:51:59.040] now obviously if there's anything inside
[01:52:00.800] there
[01:52:01.599] it it's going to be battered to hell but
[01:52:04.400] you know my point was was that well one
[01:52:07.040] of two things
[01:52:08.560] either there's a gravitational envelope
[01:52:10.719] in there which negates any inertia
[01:52:13.199] effects
[01:52:14.159] or
[01:52:15.599] you are seeing through a gravity
[01:52:17.520] distortion field
[01:52:19.520] so you know just like you're looking at
[01:52:21.360] a
[01:52:22.080] a hot highway and you see
[01:52:24.800] you know an optical distortion going
[01:52:26.960] through there well the same thing
[01:52:28.239] happens in gravity and the craft may not
[01:52:30.239] actually be moving like that it may just
[01:52:32.239] look like it because you're seeing you
[01:52:34.800] can only see it through the field so it
[01:52:37.679] may be making much more gentle moves i'm
[01:52:40.239] not saying that's it but it has to be
[01:52:42.719] one of the two
[01:52:44.400] and the thing shows up 60 miles away
[01:52:46.800] they noticed it on radar 60 seconds
[01:52:49.920] after left commander favor but it was at
[01:52:52.400] his cap point which is the next point he
[01:52:54.239] was destined to go to
[01:52:56.080] 60 miles away and in 60 seconds on radar
[01:53:00.320] the same object ends up there so it's
[01:53:03.679] going a mile a second no
[01:53:05.920] they i think the radar just picked it up
[01:53:08.000] in 60 seconds
[01:53:09.599] yeah it could have been there instantly
[01:53:11.119] but yeah we don't know the cycle time
[01:53:13.440] nobody knows that that's whole thing oh
[01:53:15.360] so it cycles like radar cycles yeah it
[01:53:18.239] doesn't it doesn't sweep but i mean it
[01:53:20.480] scans yeah it's a planar array so it
[01:53:22.800] just
[01:53:23.520] you know
[01:53:24.320] scans around it at random places that's
[01:53:26.080] a spy one does the really cool yeah it
[01:53:28.159] doesn't do the whole loop anymore right
[01:53:30.320] the point uh the point is though that
[01:53:32.320] the craft moved to his next location
[01:53:35.440] before he knew where his next location
[01:53:38.080] was gonna be jesus and
[01:53:41.119] that's
[01:53:42.080] i mean that's well documented
[01:53:44.719] so that's uh that's a pretty shocking
[01:53:47.360] piece of information what's fascinating
[01:53:49.440] to me too is that you were discussing
[01:53:50.880] this um the the way this reactor worked
[01:53:55.040] and that these things were not really
[01:53:56.560] connected
[01:53:58.000] no nothing is connected
[01:54:00.320] there's no wiring at all
[01:54:04.880] that freaks me the [ __ ] out charge your
[01:54:06.639] iphone you know yeah one wireless
[01:54:08.880] yeah
[01:54:09.760] yeah i mean that's the that's a simple
[01:54:12.080] electromagnetic
[01:54:13.599] yeah i know again but that's just simple
[01:54:15.520] electromagnet magnetic induction right
[01:54:17.679] but i mean tesla the scientist had this
[01:54:19.599] concept of right
[01:54:24.080] he wanted to send
[01:54:25.599] wireless electricity through the sky and
[01:54:27.760] westinghouse was like get the [ __ ] out
[01:54:29.199] of here with that like when anybody
[01:54:30.800] could just pull electricity out of this
[01:54:32.800] meter yeah they couldn't they couldn't
[01:54:34.400] just talk in the car right over and
[01:54:35.760] trying to chill him out you know we're
[01:54:36.960] talking about tesla and how he you know
[01:54:38.719] he couldn't be metered and how it all
[01:54:40.239] went down so it's funny bring it up yeah
[01:54:42.239] yeah that that i mean who knows what
[01:54:45.360] would have happened in terms of
[01:54:46.719] innovation had he been allowed to go
[01:54:48.480] forward with that well we probably
[01:54:50.560] wouldn't have computers
[01:54:52.159] you think
[01:54:53.440] yeah i'm pretty positive i mean forget
[01:54:55.440] about microelectronics well this is
[01:54:57.520] dumping huge amounts of electromagnetic
[01:55:00.080] energy in the air and yeah we'd be able
[01:55:01.920] to wirelessly turn on our lights but
[01:55:06.000] there'd be no radio communication the
[01:55:07.920] interference would be something we could
[01:55:09.520] would be overwhelming it would induce
[01:55:11.920] electric currents in anything with a
[01:55:13.760] small wire on it so integrated circuits
[01:55:16.000] transistors would be disintegrated
[01:55:17.840] before they were even you know tested
[01:55:20.320] for operation so it it would it would
[01:55:23.040] destroy [ __ ] us up yeah it would have
[01:55:25.199] stopped us dead we'd have it'd be great
[01:55:27.280] you could turn lighters on and heaters
[01:55:29.040] from all over the place with no wires
[01:55:30.719] but it would stop modern electronics and
[01:55:33.040] if we became dependent on it it would
[01:55:34.719] almost be like our dependence on fossil
[01:55:37.119] fuels although it's destructive it's
[01:55:38.800] very difficult for us to get off the
[01:55:40.320] nipple
[01:55:41.679] it would have changed the course of how
[01:55:42.960] we developed which is so interesting
[01:55:44.480] when you talk about if a civilization
[01:55:46.400] another star system didn't even start
[01:55:48.239] with fossil fuels they had 115 naturally
[01:55:50.400] on their planet and they're like cool
[01:55:51.840] anti-gravity is pretty awesome well the
[01:55:53.760] fact that i think it's important that
[01:55:55.440] that actually happened yeah
[01:55:58.080] it might have been stopped in its tracks
[01:55:59.599] for a reason
[01:56:00.960] whoa
[01:56:02.480] and
[01:56:04.480] it's just it's i think it's incredibly
[01:56:06.639] difficult for us to imagine
[01:56:08.320] technological progression under another
[01:56:10.239] timeline other than the one that we've
[01:56:11.440] experienced yeah that's difficult
[01:56:14.480] if we imagine what this
[01:56:16.880] alien race must have been like and
[01:56:19.280] i mean god
[01:56:20.800] just just to be able to see something
[01:56:23.360] take like i mean obviously we've seen it
[01:56:25.040] in different life forms right like we
[01:56:26.639] see the life of certain beetles in
[01:56:28.560] comparison to the life of certain fish
[01:56:30.719] very very different existence very
[01:56:32.639] different life cycles octopus yeah
[01:56:35.520] octopus yeah i mean we see all these
[01:56:37.440] different variables in terms of
[01:56:38.719] biological entities on earth but we
[01:56:41.119] don't see it in terms of technological
[01:56:42.880] innovation as we're the only one that's
[01:56:45.040] intelligent that can innovate when we
[01:56:47.119] have intelligent creatures but they're
[01:56:48.800] in the ocean the only other thing that
[01:56:50.400] are like us are dolphins and orcas and
[01:56:52.000] whales and they don't have the ability
[01:56:54.000] to manipulate their environment and
[01:56:55.520] subsequently because they don't have the
[01:56:57.360] ability to manipulate their environment
[01:56:59.280] we put them in fish tanks and we're like
[01:57:01.360] get in the tank do some tricks right
[01:57:03.599] you know the only thing he saw in the
[01:57:05.920] craft if we were considering bob's story
[01:57:08.159] the only thing that you he saw in the
[01:57:09.840] craft that he related to that looked
[01:57:11.760] like a human could make was this
[01:57:13.520] honeycomb hatch and i always loved that
[01:57:15.360] because you're like obsessed with this
[01:57:17.520] thing that you could recognize you know
[01:57:19.199] the re yeah i i only focus on that
[01:57:21.280] because it was the one thing that i
[01:57:23.760] understood how it worked what was it and
[01:57:25.760] it was it was the access to the level
[01:57:27.679] below
[01:57:28.639] and
[01:57:29.599] it was um
[01:57:31.679] well you know if you take uh
[01:57:33.599] you have a six pack of beer and you take
[01:57:35.840] out the cardboard dividers
[01:57:37.679] set it on the table you can put a lot of
[01:57:40.080] pressure on the top
[01:57:42.400] but if you push it from the sides it
[01:57:44.080] collapses flat
[01:57:45.599] so it was something like that in a
[01:57:47.199] honeycomb shape that was essentially
[01:57:49.520] some sort of sheet metal and you could
[01:57:52.719] walk on that in the upper layer but if
[01:57:54.719] you took the corner stuck your finger in
[01:57:57.119] and pushed it collapsed and made a
[01:57:59.840] an entryway so i thought that was a
[01:58:01.920] really unique i'd never seen that before
[01:58:04.480] and it was the only thing in the craft
[01:58:06.000] that made absolute sense to me i said ah
[01:58:08.080] we can make that and all that is is a
[01:58:10.480] hatchway was there any discussion about
[01:58:13.119] the materials that were used to make the
[01:58:15.199] craft
[01:58:16.239] i'm sure there was but that was a
[01:58:17.840] metallurgy division had nothing to do
[01:58:19.599] with us so you never got a
[01:58:22.080] not even the slightest briefing i don't
[01:58:23.679] even know if it was metal or it was
[01:58:25.280] ceramic it's i think it there's a fine
[01:58:28.159] line between the two
[01:58:30.320] now one of the things that's happened to
[01:58:32.320] you that has allowed people to discredit
[01:58:34.719] you was
[01:58:36.159] there's obviously been some sort of an
[01:58:38.480] effort to erase your past
[01:58:40.800] yeah some sort of a ref uh an effort to
[01:58:43.520] erase your education history your
[01:58:46.000] employment history at los alamos in fact
[01:58:48.719] the only way your employment history was
[01:58:50.480] proven at los alamos is someone got a
[01:58:52.239] list a directory of the employees from
[01:58:54.639] the past
[01:58:55.840] and read into it and you were on that
[01:58:57.360] list so it proved that you worked there
[01:58:58.960] even though people were trying to deny
[01:59:00.159] and they were trying to use that as a
[01:59:01.280] way to discredit you that you never did
[01:59:02.800] work at los alamos you weren't really a
[01:59:04.560] scientist
[01:59:06.000] what was what was that like to
[01:59:08.159] experience i mean of course we're
[01:59:09.280] talking about the 1980s the 1990s when
[01:59:12.080] you could get away with something like
[01:59:13.679] that
[01:59:14.960] yeah obviously there are a lot less
[01:59:17.520] uh
[01:59:18.719] a lot less records on computers at that
[01:59:20.719] time it was still file cabinets and
[01:59:22.880] folders but uh yeah that was frightening
[01:59:25.599] that was one of the first things
[01:59:28.960] i think it's i think george knapp was
[01:59:30.719] the first one that uncovered that i mean
[01:59:32.719] he saw my birth certificate disappear he
[01:59:35.679] um it disappeared yeah there was no
[01:59:38.080] record of you yeah there was there was
[01:59:39.520] no record of that there was uh no record
[01:59:42.239] his mom tells me about that like it was
[01:59:44.320] frightening for her for he's got a real
[01:59:46.800] family you know he's a real person it's
[01:59:48.239] frightening for her
[01:59:49.760] but if the los alamos thing really
[01:59:51.760] surprised me and that they were so
[01:59:54.159] adamant that no this guy never worked
[01:59:56.159] here don't be ridiculous and george went
[01:59:58.000] back and forth you know for i got the
[02:00:00.000] letters on the wall yeah months i mean
[02:00:02.239] it was ridiculous but fortunately
[02:00:03.920] somebody came up with a 1982 phone book
[02:00:06.880] directory i mean and also
[02:00:09.599] uh originally i told you uh
[02:00:12.960] you know when i worked there i was on
[02:00:14.639] the front page of the the paper so they
[02:00:16.639] were still able to archive you know
[02:00:18.880] bring that back from the archives and
[02:00:20.480] you know bob lazar a physicist working
[02:00:22.159] here at los alamos so there was at least
[02:00:24.639] something there but uh somehow george
[02:00:27.599] came up with the phone director and then
[02:00:29.599] george then bob took george with cameras
[02:00:32.480] into los alamos oh yeah yeah so we flew
[02:00:35.199] out there and i said look come on in
[02:00:37.280] i'll show you where i worked we'll go in
[02:00:39.280] we'll meet people and george went with
[02:00:41.119] me and you know
[02:00:43.040] i navigate the place oh yeah and you
[02:00:44.960] know met people and you know and almost
[02:00:47.760] was also the place where they had the
[02:00:50.719] machine that was able to read the the
[02:00:53.199] size of your digits no no that wasn't
[02:00:55.520] awesome that was s4 that was s4 and
[02:00:57.760] explain that
[02:00:59.440] so
[02:01:00.320] now this was back in the 80s and this is
[02:01:02.239] back in the 80s where when you discuss
[02:01:04.400] this people like this doesn't even exist
[02:01:06.800] yeah okay what was it it was a way
[02:01:09.840] you know this is before fingerprint
[02:01:11.119] scanners and
[02:01:12.480] you know and anything of
[02:01:15.599] anything any high resolution scanner at
[02:01:17.599] that time so what it was was a device
[02:01:19.840] that uh had a little picture of a hand
[02:01:22.239] on a glass plate with pins in it so you
[02:01:24.880] could jam your hand in there and there
[02:01:26.880] was a bright light above it and a sensor
[02:01:28.880] underneath and when you put your hand in
[02:01:31.440] there the light would turn on and it
[02:01:33.520] would measure the bones in your finger
[02:01:36.000] because the light shown through your
[02:01:37.599] bones
[02:01:38.639] and apparently
[02:01:41.679] the length of the bones in your fingers
[02:01:43.440] are extremely unique and easy to measure
[02:01:46.080] and they use that when you put your
[02:01:48.239] hands on there the light would turn on
[02:01:49.760] and your badge would pop out there's it
[02:01:51.520] right oh there it is that's that's it
[02:01:53.520] and i tried to describe this um to
[02:01:55.760] people and they said that is the most
[02:01:57.599] ridiculous thing we've ever heard
[02:01:59.679] and um
[02:02:00.960] i said hey that my badge came out of
[02:02:02.960] that thing i put my hand on it badge
[02:02:05.119] popped out and that's how i could open
[02:02:06.639] the doors and get into s4
[02:02:08.560] and um you know and everybody
[02:02:10.719] discredited that they said it was
[02:02:12.000] [ __ ] it was science fiction and
[02:02:13.760] jeremy you found this
[02:02:15.760] i i found it through a good friend of
[02:02:17.520] mine named tyler rogoway and he had some
[02:02:19.440] good sources inside of area 52 where
[02:02:21.679] they also used these for the stealth
[02:02:24.080] program right around that time so now
[02:02:26.320] i've got all these people that worked
[02:02:27.599] within who you know said only if you're
[02:02:30.400] in certain programs would we use this
[02:02:32.320] technology it's kind of [ __ ] actually
[02:02:33.599] they didn't keep it for very long
[02:02:34.800] beginning of biometrics so i was able to
[02:02:36.719] reveal it in my film i kept my mouth
[02:02:38.719] shut until i showed it to bob you know
[02:02:41.280] the movie is the first time he saw it
[02:02:43.040] was how you see it in the documentary
[02:02:44.639] that's his genuine reaction i'm getting
[02:02:46.080] goosebumps that was a great idea the way
[02:02:47.840] you did it thank you man because you
[02:02:49.040] know what guess what i'm actually trying
[02:02:50.560] to see if he's telling the truth that's
[02:02:52.320] how i started you know that's how i
[02:02:53.840] started so it was really cool to see
[02:02:55.199] that that you get to see it his actual
[02:02:57.760] reaction has that been verified by other
[02:03:00.159] people yeah so
[02:03:01.840] yeah so to me it has uh personally i get
[02:03:04.880] emails every day and people are telling
[02:03:06.400] me where these are used and how they're
[02:03:08.080] used and send me photos i got a lot of
[02:03:09.760] photos of identity mats now well how
[02:03:11.280] they were used right they're not how
[02:03:12.719] they were used yeah but uh i don't the
[02:03:15.040] most recent one was
[02:03:16.800] way more recent than i thought in
[02:03:18.159] another country but yeah that technology
[02:03:20.159] was used so what's so funny is
[02:03:23.280] um
[02:03:24.239] that this technology even in the area 52
[02:03:28.080] where they'd use him for tonopah one of
[02:03:29.679] the guys who will go on camera with me
[02:03:31.679] he will do an interview with me he was a
[02:03:33.920] technician for one of these and and he
[02:03:36.000] hated them because they were really bad
[02:03:37.840] they always broke down and never and he
[02:03:39.920] was a technician for him now he won't
[02:03:41.679] tell me where if he worked at area 52 so
[02:03:44.320] it's probably tonopah
[02:03:46.000] it's very separated even on base but
[02:03:48.000] yeah so
[02:03:49.440] there was that yeah there is your
[02:03:52.480] education record that was also like what
[02:03:55.280] happened with that
[02:03:57.679] well that disappeared also you know that
[02:04:00.000] i i've i've never gone
[02:04:02.800] i've never gone anywhere for education
[02:04:05.679] i've never gone i never attended any
[02:04:07.760] classes at caltech i never attended
[02:04:09.520] anything at mit
[02:04:11.760] you did attend classes in those places i
[02:04:14.000] did attend classes in those places do
[02:04:15.760] you know anybody that you went to school
[02:04:17.280] with
[02:04:18.159] yes i do and have they verified that
[02:04:20.400] they went to school with you well i gave
[02:04:21.920] jeremy some names but people yeah i the
[02:04:24.719] reason i don't say these names publicly
[02:04:27.360] is because every single time i mention a
[02:04:30.239] name somebody gets injured they don't
[02:04:32.320] want to be of course yeah yeah of course
[02:04:36.080] um but what what is that experience like
[02:04:38.400] seeing your birth certificate erased
[02:04:41.040] seeing your employment well it's
[02:04:43.040] frightening it's it's absolutely
[02:04:45.119] frightening it's also the fuel that the
[02:04:46.880] debunkers use the so-called air quote
[02:04:49.119] skeptics i don't like the term skeptics
[02:04:51.760] i'm going to say this publicly because i
[02:04:53.040] really only said this privately i think
[02:04:54.800] it's a sloppy lazy way to look at things
[02:04:57.760] to just be a skeptic
[02:05:00.080] i want people to be objective
[02:05:02.320] and i think there's a lot of things you
[02:05:04.639] should be skeptical of i think you
[02:05:07.040] should you should look at things and
[02:05:09.440] look at things
[02:05:11.119] from a hard-line science perspective you
[02:05:13.679] should be subjective but the idea of
[02:05:15.840] skeptics the problem with that is you're
[02:05:17.440] always looking for things to be [ __ ]
[02:05:19.280] yeah and i think that's dangerous
[02:05:20.880] because i think some things aren't
[02:05:22.239] [ __ ] it's confirmation bias on the
[02:05:23.840] other end you're just deciding to take a
[02:05:25.360] square thing and put it around hold no
[02:05:26.880] matter what and i find a lot of them to
[02:05:29.119] be lazy
[02:05:30.239] a lot of them to be lazy thinkers sure
[02:05:32.080] because they're always putting it into
[02:05:33.840] that box instead of going hmm
[02:05:36.480] instead of just separating their ego
[02:05:38.400] they're trying they're playing a game
[02:05:40.080] and the game is calling [ __ ] i want
[02:05:42.159] to call [ __ ] and i'm gonna line up
[02:05:44.239] all these reasons why it's [ __ ] and
[02:05:45.920] i'm gonna ignore anything that might be
[02:05:47.679] contrary to that definition yeah
[02:05:50.000] every time i'm thinking i'm going to
[02:05:51.280] catch him in something you know all
[02:05:52.880] along this process um i found dr krangle
[02:05:55.440] he came forward and said i was in
[02:05:56.639] security briefings with bob lazar the
[02:05:58.480] physicist at los angeles he went on the
[02:06:00.400] record with me now the other people i
[02:06:02.159] talked with why won't they go on the
[02:06:03.679] record with me because they're still
[02:06:05.280] working there
[02:06:07.040] so that that's the difference right what
[02:06:08.480] is that what can the public have right
[02:06:10.239] or even if they're not working there
[02:06:11.520] that you know they want to live their
[02:06:12.719] lives why i mean obviously people have
[02:06:14.560] seen what's happened to you mike thigpen
[02:06:17.840] after 30 years yeah really if you look
[02:06:20.320] at all the information on
[02:06:23.040] you know concerning my accounts that's
[02:06:25.599] that's verifiable
[02:06:27.520] it can't possibly be a [ __ ] story
[02:06:30.159] anymore it's really way past that point
[02:06:32.800] yeah i mean that was my big pin is i
[02:06:35.440] mean how could i possibly know
[02:06:38.560] uh so mike fig pin
[02:06:40.800] was the guy that did the security
[02:06:42.800] clearances to go to the bait one of the
[02:06:44.880] guys that was this is the guy that you
[02:06:46.159] worked with he said he did
[02:06:48.239] right and and george knapp you know
[02:06:50.400] george didn't believe him george put him
[02:06:52.000] through four polygraph tests right he
[02:06:54.480] tried to see man this is a big risk it
[02:06:56.960] sounds interesting but let's see if he's
[02:06:58.800] telling the truth one of the things was
[02:07:01.440] bob said there's a guy named mike
[02:07:02.560] thigpen he did security clearances for
[02:07:04.159] the base and that's a weird name it's
[02:07:06.480] very specific
[02:07:07.920] for 30 years george
[02:07:10.239] found this guy in this weird department
[02:07:12.000] that he didn't even know it was my big
[02:07:13.520] pin the guy wouldn't talk to me ghosted
[02:07:15.360] him totally ghosting for 30 years used
[02:07:17.360] facebook and google image match through
[02:07:19.360] his children i was able to find him
[02:07:21.360] after 30 years and i talked to him three
[02:07:23.599] times on the phone he lives on the east
[02:07:25.520] coast he almost went on camera with me
[02:07:28.159] confirmed that he did security
[02:07:29.520] clearances for the base in 1989
[02:07:31.599] confirmed he remembers bob lazar and
[02:07:34.159] what you don't know is there's a
[02:07:35.520] handwritten note that a friend of yours
[02:07:37.520] has from mike what i know i'm gonna give
[02:07:40.239] it to you later i don't but that is real
[02:07:42.000] that is actual so a handwritten note
[02:07:43.520] that says what you know like this is new
[02:07:45.040] to me so when the i
[02:07:47.599] when you're
[02:07:50.480] when they do security client clearances
[02:07:52.480] they go through all your friends and
[02:07:53.920] they go to your friend's phone yeah yeah
[02:07:55.199] so this is too bob and
[02:07:57.840] i had people come to me for a friend of
[02:07:59.280] mine that's serving and they're doing
[02:08:00.719] the security clearance for him and even
[02:08:02.079] though i'm like the ufo guy
[02:08:04.239] they did you know the fbi come and visit
[02:08:06.159] my house and make sure that they talk
[02:08:08.000] about my friend and they lift a little
[02:08:09.920] card and when my wife told him to get
[02:08:11.920] away because he didn't know who they
[02:08:12.960] were they left a little card it's super
[02:08:14.800] cute now back then it was a handwritten
[02:08:16.960] note and his friend has it for him that
[02:08:18.800] you haven't seen in oh my god two
[02:08:21.280] decades
[02:08:22.639] so if you're listening
[02:08:24.079] you're telling me what it is
[02:08:25.760] what is this card
[02:08:27.280] it's just a little handwritten note with
[02:08:28.960] mike thigpen's signature card like like
[02:08:31.280] a like a postcard
[02:08:32.960] like a piece of paper that he left on
[02:08:34.719] the door saying when bob gets back or
[02:08:36.639] whatever it says on it so it's just
[02:08:38.639] another little funny thing i found the
[02:08:40.400] guy he does the security clearances he
[02:08:42.079] admitted to me he did it and he admitted
[02:08:43.760] to me he was dodging george knapp
[02:08:45.280] because when george said his name on the
[02:08:46.719] writ on the on the news he dropped his
[02:08:49.280] fork into his steak or into his potatoes
[02:08:51.360] or whatever and he's looking at his wife
[02:08:53.280] he was in trouble his name's never
[02:08:54.800] supposed to be out there like it's just
[02:08:56.079] a security clearance guy but you don't
[02:08:57.840] want national attention associated with
[02:09:00.079] anything bob has to say but anyway this
[02:09:02.480] unique name bob said for 30 years and
[02:09:05.280] the guy ghosted george knapp george
[02:09:06.719] could prove he existed he actually
[02:09:08.639] talked to me man he talked to me three
[02:09:10.239] times he almost went on camera with me
[02:09:12.800] it's just crazy what what do you what
[02:09:14.400] happens after 30 years you just get more
[02:09:16.159] info well that's one of the reasons why
[02:09:18.880] when you and me and jeremy and george
[02:09:22.560] knapp had that conversation on the phone
[02:09:24.560] yeah i said i think
[02:09:26.880] what we can do
[02:09:28.480] with this podcast
[02:09:30.239] is important i really do i think it's
[02:09:33.199] important for people to hear this
[02:09:35.760] from you in a very clear
[02:09:39.440] just very concise way
[02:09:43.119] and if you examine all the information
[02:09:46.239] that you've said today if you you look
[02:09:48.239] at all the things that the detractors
[02:09:49.920] have said if you look at all of the new
[02:09:52.639] recent evidence that's coming out and
[02:09:54.639] all these
[02:09:56.400] really high-level people in the military
[02:09:58.560] and the government that are discussing
[02:10:00.000] this
[02:10:01.280] it gives you
[02:10:03.760] far more credibility than you would have
[02:10:06.320] had in the 19 years when this came out
[02:10:09.360] [ __ ] yes you can't ignore his story just
[02:10:12.079] because you don't like it anymore that's
[02:10:13.840] why i thought it was important that you
[02:10:15.040] come out and refresh the world's memory
[02:10:17.679] and let people know and like i said i've
[02:10:19.679] been i mean i want to say i'm a fan of
[02:10:21.520] yours but i guess i'm a fan of yours as
[02:10:23.280] a human being i'm a fan of yours but
[02:10:25.040] i've been following you for decades i've
[02:10:27.199] been following the story for decades i
[02:10:28.800] mean i'm kidding i have vhs tapes bob
[02:10:31.440] like a lot of the world has yeah it's
[02:10:33.760] crazy well anybody that has any sort of
[02:10:36.800] uh a vested interest or a just a even uh
[02:10:40.719] just a fascination with ufos has
[02:10:43.599] followed your story because there's no
[02:10:46.480] one else there's no one else that comes
[02:10:48.719] for this some guy who said i worked
[02:10:50.560] underground with the aliens they shot my
[02:10:52.000] hand off like there's a bunch of wacky
[02:10:53.599] dudes
[02:10:54.560] they're underground there's bases
[02:10:55.840] they're shooting lasers through the
[02:10:56.800] earth's crust and they move them at
[02:10:58.239] light speed there's a lot of those guys
[02:11:00.639] they seem schizophrenic they seem crazy
[02:11:02.560] they might even be disinformation agents
[02:11:04.719] they might be people that are designed
[02:11:06.639] to muddy the waters which for sure has
[02:11:09.119] happened people are coming forward
[02:11:10.719] though now it's amazing by doing this
[02:11:12.560] what you're doing you're providing an
[02:11:13.920] opportunity for bob to tell a story you
[02:11:16.000] know believe it or not he can tell a
[02:11:18.000] story it's amazing because more people
[02:11:20.560] will come forward now
[02:11:22.400] that are involved with these projects
[02:11:24.639] they'll come forward to you to me
[02:11:26.159] they're coming forward and so what
[02:11:27.520] you've done here is provide that
[02:11:28.719] opportunity if they need it and it's
[02:11:30.880] amazing i just want to say bob just
[02:11:32.560] don't come forward no don't come forward
[02:11:34.560] to bob
[02:11:36.800] why were you freaking nauseous at the
[02:11:39.280] beginning of this like so
[02:11:41.440] upset why was your why'd you have a
[02:11:43.199] migraine because that started off so
[02:11:44.560] hard my god i was sitting here like did
[02:11:45.760] this why are you asking him why because
[02:11:47.760] obviously anxiety the guy's gone through
[02:11:49.760] 30 [ __ ] years of being persecuted i
[02:11:51.679] just want to erase his birth certificate
[02:11:53.280] i just want to hear what you hear from i
[02:11:54.639] want to hear him say i want them why did
[02:11:56.320] i have to say that you don't just set it
[02:11:58.159] up get it i step out okay settle down
[02:12:02.639] yeah well i get it you were it was hard
[02:12:04.960] for you to get them here you know and i
[02:12:06.400] was for us yeah you you don't you do
[02:12:09.599] what really annoys me are the people
[02:12:11.119] that think you know you guys just came
[02:12:13.360] up with the story to make a bunch of
[02:12:14.639] money or get a bunch of you know
[02:12:16.079] attention and that's a good point so
[02:12:17.760] please explain that first of all i don't
[02:12:19.679] get any money out of this at all and i
[02:12:21.920] may i didn't even let you guys buy plane
[02:12:24.239] tickets for me to come out here or
[02:12:25.679] anything i mean
[02:12:27.360] any time like when jeremy
[02:12:30.239] uh pre-previewed i guess the movie up in
[02:12:33.520] michigan
[02:12:34.480] i mean they it brought in like a couple
[02:12:36.480] thousand dollars i made sure that two
[02:12:38.159] thousand dollars went to science
[02:12:40.239] programs at the local high schools there
[02:12:42.560] dirty money i don't want to touch it i
[02:12:44.320] don't take any money from this stuff and
[02:12:46.000] as far as attention
[02:12:48.000] i hate [ __ ] attention i don't like
[02:12:51.920] being on shows i just want to kind of
[02:12:54.000] hide in the corner and do my own thing
[02:12:55.840] so that's i got enough hugs when i was a
[02:12:57.840] kid okay i don't need any attention so
[02:13:01.199] now that if if you if you think somehow
[02:13:04.320] we came up with this thing then you got
[02:13:06.000] to tell me why we did it well you've
[02:13:08.239] done a great job of
[02:13:10.000] making sure you have your bases covered
[02:13:11.760] in that regard that you haven't profited
[02:13:13.360] off of this and like you said that you
[02:13:14.560] have donated whatever money that came
[02:13:16.159] your way to science programs it's i mean
[02:13:18.719] it it doesn't make any sense
[02:13:21.760] any other way
[02:13:23.199] i mean what you're what i've gotten out
[02:13:25.440] of here is what i thought i was going to
[02:13:27.440] get out of here when i watched the
[02:13:28.480] documentary that you what you're saying
[02:13:30.800] makes sense it doesn't make sense that
[02:13:32.960] it's [ __ ] that happened exactly like
[02:13:35.199] i said it did joe i believe you
[02:13:37.920] um in closing is there anything else
[02:13:40.239] you'd like to say
[02:13:42.960] no i can't think of anything other than
[02:13:44.719] really don't come and try to visit me
[02:13:47.190] [Laughter]
[02:13:48.960] well um i know that you have paid a huge
[02:13:52.320] personal cost to get this information
[02:13:54.639] out and i mean maybe you didn't
[02:13:56.480] understand what that cost would have
[02:13:57.679] been when you first initially came
[02:13:59.440] forward with the story but over the past
[02:14:01.840] 30 years it's been immense it's been
[02:14:04.079] great and i just want to thank you for
[02:14:05.920] that and thank you for all these people
[02:14:08.159] that would not have gotten this
[02:14:09.440] information and would not have really
[02:14:11.199] had this story any other way
[02:14:13.599] oh thanks joe thank you
[02:14:15.440] and thank you jeremy and one more time
[02:14:17.199] the documentary is available on netflix
[02:14:18.960] right now yeah it's called bob lazar
[02:14:21.440] area 51 and flying saucers all right
[02:14:24.239] that's it folks good night
[02:14:26.200] [Music]
[02:14:33.490] [Applause]
[02:14:40.190] [Music]