House Oversight UAP Hearing — full transcript (July 26, 2023)

Event: Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs hearing, "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency." Witnesses: David Grusch, Cmdr. David Fravor (USN, ret.), Lt. Ryan Graves. Date: 2023-07-26. Source: official video, House Oversight Committee (GOP Oversight YouTube, KQ7Dw-739VY), 2:34:35. Extraction: youtube_transcript.py (auto-generated captions; no speaker labels — questioner/witness turns must be inferred from context; auto-caption spelling errors present), captured 2026-06-03. Verbatim auto-transcript. Analysis: ../../sources/july-2023-house-hearing, ../../sources/grusch-career-and-claims.

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[00:04:37.340] sorry about that yeah
[00:18:02.360] the subcommittee hearing on unidentified
[00:18:05.100] anomalous phenomena or uaps will come to
[00:18:08.520] order welcome everyone without objection
[00:18:11.400] the chair May declare a recess at any
[00:18:13.799] time additionally without objection the
[00:18:16.080] following members are waived onto the
[00:18:17.940] subcommittee for the purpose of
[00:18:19.620] participating in today's hearing Mr
[00:18:21.660] burchard of Tennessee Miss Luna Florida
[00:18:24.360] Mr getza Florida Mr Burleson of Missouri
[00:18:27.120] Mrs ocasio-cortez in New York and Mr
[00:18:30.120] ogles of Tennessee without objection so
[00:18:33.539] ordered for today's subcommittee hearing
[00:18:35.880] both the chair and ranking member will
[00:18:38.220] have 10 minutes for opening remarks we
[00:18:40.799] may both be giving some of those minutes
[00:18:42.799] to other members of our party I'm now
[00:18:45.660] going to recognize myself for 10 minutes
[00:18:48.299] I'm actually going to try to get out of
[00:18:50.220] here in about four and then we'll give
[00:18:51.900] it to some of my friends over here good
[00:18:54.419] morning and welcome to the mostly
[00:18:56.039] exciting the most exciting subcommittee
[00:18:58.200] in Congress this week the subcommittee
[00:19:00.299] on National Security of the board in
[00:19:01.799] foreign affairs for discussion of
[00:19:04.580] unidentified anomalous phenomenon I'd
[00:19:07.140] like to thank the brave military
[00:19:08.520] Protestant Personnel such as wit such as
[00:19:12.120] the Witnesses on the panel today for
[00:19:14.160] sharing their stories on how they have
[00:19:16.080] engaged uaps which has brought attention
[00:19:18.059] to this matter
[00:19:19.320] curiosity and speculation from all walks
[00:19:22.020] of life have generated interest in
[00:19:24.059] studying what uaps are and what threats
[00:19:27.299] they they may pose I will say that when
[00:19:29.820] I was younger in school I read a book a
[00:19:32.780] 1966 book called flying saucers serious
[00:19:36.299] business and for a while when I was a
[00:19:38.580] little bit younger I thought it was the
[00:19:39.900] most important issue out there uh
[00:19:43.080] the lack of a transparency regarding
[00:19:45.539] uaps which was one of the
[00:19:47.840] themes of that book
[00:19:50.940] um
[00:19:51.960] uh
[00:19:54.360] um
[00:19:55.980] uh
[00:19:57.360] in any event it's led to interest in
[00:19:59.820] studying what uaps are and what threats
[00:20:01.799] they pose
[00:20:03.020] the lack of transparency regarding uaps
[00:20:06.240] has fueled wild speculation and debate
[00:20:08.400] for decades eroding public trust in the
[00:20:10.440] very institutions that are meant to
[00:20:12.480] serve and protect them as is evidenced
[00:20:14.460] by the large number of people we have
[00:20:15.900] here I also want to point out in 1966
[00:20:18.840] President Gerald Ford claimed to have
[00:20:21.299] seen a UFO in 1969 in Georgia Jimmy
[00:20:25.679] Carter claimed to have seen a UFO so
[00:20:28.860] this has led Congress to establish
[00:20:30.900] entities to examine uaps the National
[00:20:33.419] Defense authorization Act of 2022
[00:20:36.320] established the all-domain anomaly
[00:20:39.059] resolution officer aarro to conduct or
[00:20:42.900] to coordinate efforts across the
[00:20:44.340] Department of Defense and other federal
[00:20:45.660] agents federal agencies to detect
[00:20:48.480] identify and investigate uaps however
[00:20:51.299] aaro's budget remains classified
[00:20:53.600] prohibiting meaningful oversight from
[00:20:57.000] Congress in addition to aro's efforts
[00:20:59.640] Nassau is leading an independent study
[00:21:02.100] and uaps to identify how UAP that is
[00:21:05.400] gathered from both civilian and
[00:21:07.320] government entities that can be analyzed
[00:21:10.679] to shed light on the topic however
[00:21:12.179] despite these offices being established
[00:21:15.000] their lives of pressing demand for
[00:21:16.860] government transparency and
[00:21:18.780] accountability that cannot be overlooked
[00:21:20.760] and that's been a problem it's been
[00:21:22.020] around for 50 years the Biden
[00:21:24.299] Administration handling of the Chinese
[00:21:25.799] spy balloon that violated U.S airport
[00:21:28.080] space is one example how the government
[00:21:30.539] is not prepared for these the Biden
[00:21:33.179] administration's description of events
[00:21:34.980] has shown that the government continues
[00:21:37.380] not to be forthright between the Chinese
[00:21:39.960] balloon being shot down in two uaps
[00:21:42.179] subsequently shot down following the
[00:21:44.280] event earlier this year the U.S
[00:21:45.840] government spent one and a half million
[00:21:47.400] dollars in taxpayer dollars on missiles
[00:21:49.500] yet we have seen little Clarity from the
[00:21:51.480] Biden Administration
[00:21:53.100] we must demand transparency from the
[00:21:55.200] Department of Defense our intelligent
[00:21:56.580] community and our defense industry on
[00:21:58.559] the UAP work we're going to ask some
[00:22:00.480] questions about that today Congress
[00:22:02.460] recognizes the subject of uaps as
[00:22:04.620] multifaceted and requires a careful
[00:22:07.080] data-driven approach
[00:22:08.760] today we'll see Clarity from these
[00:22:10.500] Witnesses testimonies or we'll see
[00:22:12.720] clarity as to what can be done to
[00:22:14.820] improve reporting for military and
[00:22:17.039] civilians and remain committed to
[00:22:18.840] objective inquiry Congress should work
[00:22:21.480] to ensure that knowledge is not driven
[00:22:23.940] by fear today we are not just obeying
[00:22:27.059] the existence of UAP as we are
[00:22:28.500] deliberating on the principles that
[00:22:29.820] Define our Republic which is a
[00:22:31.559] commitment to transparency and
[00:22:33.120] accountability I look forward to hearing
[00:22:35.100] from our Witnesses today
[00:22:36.840] about ways we can improve government
[00:22:38.520] efficiency and openness when it comes to
[00:22:41.039] uaps I thank each of you for your
[00:22:43.080] presence here today and for your
[00:22:44.640] dedication to safeguarding the interest
[00:22:46.140] of the American people I look forward to
[00:22:48.299] your testimony and I'm going to turn it
[00:22:50.159] over for two and a half or three minutes
[00:22:51.720] to representative Richard from Tennessee
[00:22:55.740] thank you Mr chairman thank you all for
[00:22:57.600] being here
[00:22:59.340] I want to thank everybody for making
[00:23:01.620] this happen today and I want to remind
[00:23:02.880] everybody this is a nonpartisan issue
[00:23:04.980] this has nothing to do with Party
[00:23:06.240] politics I think
[00:23:08.400] the cover up goes a lot deeper than that
[00:23:10.620] I also want to thank my colleagues
[00:23:12.799] representative Anna Paulina Luna sitting
[00:23:15.659] beside me here
[00:23:17.039] Jared Moskowitz
[00:23:18.720] my friend across the aisle has an
[00:23:21.240] incredible mind and I'm anxious to hear
[00:23:23.039] his questions my buddy Eric Burleson and
[00:23:25.919] it's not in my notes here but Matt Gates
[00:23:28.140] if it hadn't been for Matt Gates myself
[00:23:29.700] him and Luna would still be down at
[00:23:31.500] Eglin Air Force Base trying to get some
[00:23:33.360] answers
[00:23:35.340] he's got an incredible legal mind also
[00:23:37.799] uh I know I saw it in the crowd there
[00:23:39.659] George Knapp my buddy Jeremy Corbell
[00:23:42.240] I've
[00:23:43.799] they're not Witnesses but they've
[00:23:45.960] provided some statements on this subject
[00:23:48.059] and I see unanimous consent to enter
[00:23:49.799] those statements into the record Mr
[00:23:51.600] chairman without objection also would
[00:23:54.360] like to enter in I understand now that
[00:23:56.640] this is unclassified and it's public
[00:23:58.440] record but as we all know that's
[00:24:00.179] sometimes difficult for the public to
[00:24:02.220] get a hold of a report defense
[00:24:03.780] intelligence reference documents
[00:24:06.120] Advanced space propulsion based on
[00:24:08.220] vacuum
[00:24:09.299] space-time metric engineering some light
[00:24:11.940] reading for some of our members without
[00:24:13.919] objection thank you
[00:24:15.840] um you know Mr Knapp wrote since 1969
[00:24:18.720] the position our military has been that
[00:24:20.280] UFOs pose no threat to National Security
[00:24:22.500] and are not worthy of further study I'd
[00:24:25.799] say that's the biggest understatement of
[00:24:28.260] the decade
[00:24:29.520] um he also goes on to talk about the
[00:24:31.440] dismissive attitude and said odds with
[00:24:33.539] what was revealed in documents reports
[00:24:35.280] and internal memos
[00:24:36.720] and Mr cabrill says as he writes these
[00:24:40.200] words the UFO is emerging as a major
[00:24:41.940] topic of global importance
[00:24:44.760] um I could state that as a fact out
[00:24:47.820] there I met a fella who came in there
[00:24:49.200] all the way from Denmark to be here for
[00:24:51.480] this this meeting so this is huge this
[00:24:53.880] is worldwide I think we we suspect
[00:24:56.820] what's going on but I'd also like to
[00:24:58.440] thank the members of Congress who
[00:24:59.760] supported our efforts to make this
[00:25:01.620] hearing happen some have even confided
[00:25:03.480] to me that they've had UFO sightings of
[00:25:05.280] Their Own
[00:25:06.360] those members of course some of them
[00:25:08.039] wish to remain anonymous and I'll keep
[00:25:09.539] it that way but also finally I'd like to
[00:25:11.700] thank these three Brave Witnesses here
[00:25:14.520] they took an oath they took a note to
[00:25:16.679] uphold the Constitution United States
[00:25:18.120] and Dad government they're doing it and
[00:25:20.100] we owe them a debt of gratitude
[00:25:33.440] [Applause]
[00:25:35.640] y'all quit clapping you're cutting in on
[00:25:37.919] my time
[00:25:39.900] just kidding these folks they've got
[00:25:42.000] nothing to gain from this and I think
[00:25:44.039] you're going to find out that they've
[00:25:45.240] endured quite a few slings and arrows we
[00:25:47.820] need to remember them in our prayers and
[00:25:49.500] their families and I'm thankful them for
[00:25:51.179] their honest testimonies they have done
[00:25:53.279] interviews and appeared in documentaries
[00:25:54.900] like accidental truth to get their
[00:25:56.760] stories out there to and and now they
[00:25:59.279] are all here to testify under oath for
[00:26:00.960] Congress
[00:26:02.279] and it's been so difficult to get here
[00:26:04.860] today I've said you know in the Baptist
[00:26:06.419] Church we'd say that the devil's in our
[00:26:08.159] way and um the devil has been in our way
[00:26:10.500] through this thing we've we've run into
[00:26:12.659] roadblocks from members from the
[00:26:14.520] intelligence Community the Pentagon I
[00:26:16.620] proposed legislation to go in the FAA
[00:26:18.860] reauthorization that just said if uh
[00:26:21.659] if an airline pilot has a sighting that
[00:26:25.380] when he makes that report to the FAA
[00:26:27.059] that it would come to Congress but I was
[00:26:28.799] told that the intelligence community did
[00:26:31.200] not like that and the bill was and the
[00:26:32.880] amendment was not even heard in
[00:26:34.140] committee
[00:26:35.279] I think it's time for this country to
[00:26:37.020] take back our country we need to tell
[00:26:38.940] the folks at the Pentagon they work for
[00:26:40.919] us that government we don't work for
[00:26:42.779] them
[00:26:44.159] and that's exactly the point this is an
[00:26:46.140] issue of government transparency we
[00:26:48.299] can't trust a government that does not
[00:26:49.919] trust its people we're not bringing
[00:26:51.960] Little Green Men or flying saucers into
[00:26:53.760] the hearing sorry to disappoint about
[00:26:56.100] half y'all we're just going to get to
[00:26:58.200] the facts we're going to uncover the
[00:27:00.600] cover-up and I hope this is just the
[00:27:02.580] beginning of many more hearings and more
[00:27:04.140] people coming forward about this and I
[00:27:06.419] yield back the remainder of my time
[00:27:08.279] um I think is it to representative Luna
[00:27:10.380] Mr chairman yeah we'll we'll call him as
[00:27:12.539] Luna for her statement
[00:27:15.539] their circumstances surrounding uaps has
[00:27:18.000] captivated the intention of the American
[00:27:19.620] people for decades ingrained in even the
[00:27:21.840] minds of our nation's leaders from Jimmy
[00:27:23.460] Carter to Barack Obama Hillary Clinton
[00:27:25.860] to Donald Trump Marco Rubio de Chuck
[00:27:28.140] Schumer John Radcliffe to National
[00:27:30.539] Security Council officials yet from
[00:27:32.940] Roswell New Mexico to the coast of
[00:27:34.620] Jacksonville Florida the sightings of
[00:27:36.419] uaps have rarely been explained by the
[00:27:38.460] people who have first-hand accounts of
[00:27:40.020] these situations this is largely due to
[00:27:42.419] the lack of transparency by our own
[00:27:44.159] government and the failure of our
[00:27:45.900] elected leaders to make good on their
[00:27:47.520] promises to release explanations and
[00:27:49.559] footage and mountains of over-classified
[00:27:51.840] documents that continue to be hidden
[00:27:53.520] from the American people
[00:27:55.020] this isn't just how I feel in fact the
[00:27:57.299] American people largely believe that the
[00:27:59.039] government has actively covered up the
[00:28:00.659] truth about uaps one poll in particular
[00:28:03.539] found that 68 percent of Americans
[00:28:05.400] believe that the government is hiding
[00:28:06.960] information about uaps and not being
[00:28:09.120] honest about what we know about them and
[00:28:11.279] from my personal experience I believe
[00:28:13.080] the same thing
[00:28:14.279] another poll found that nearly half
[00:28:16.020] Americans believe that the federal
[00:28:17.340] government is doing a very bad or
[00:28:19.440] somewhat bad job of dealing with reports
[00:28:21.299] of UFO sightings as representative
[00:28:23.760] burchett just referenced on the fa bill
[00:28:25.799] that just went through you can tell that
[00:28:28.020] that's exactly happening considering the
[00:28:30.419] thousands of testimonies and videos
[00:28:31.860] taken on people's phones and
[00:28:33.720] eyewitnesses accounts made by credible
[00:28:35.580] Witnesses such as doctors Pilots
[00:28:37.860] scientists and active duty service
[00:28:39.480] members is unacceptable to continue to
[00:28:42.059] Gaslight Americans into thinking that
[00:28:43.740] this is not happening or that the
[00:28:45.539] potential of intelligence intelligent
[00:28:47.940] life forms exists other than humans
[00:28:50.520] even more alarming is the fact that
[00:28:52.320] these eyewitnesses are many of times
[00:28:54.120] service members and have no assurance
[00:28:55.740] that their lives will not be negatively
[00:28:57.360] impacted or even harmed by their
[00:28:59.100] experiences
[00:29:00.240] in being an active duty service member
[00:29:02.400] working on an Airfield I've had
[00:29:04.200] conversations with many Pilots where
[00:29:06.240] they were in fear of coming forward for
[00:29:07.919] Retribution and or being taken off
[00:29:09.960] flight status
[00:29:11.279] how do we know this because the
[00:29:12.659] government has said nothing to assure us
[00:29:14.279] otherwise they have also did nothing to
[00:29:17.159] to calm the concerns of over 20 of
[00:29:19.860] Americans who have reported to have seen
[00:29:21.360] UFOs or uaps we are simply told not to
[00:29:24.840] question the government and that the
[00:29:26.340] government has it under control
[00:29:28.080] today is the first hearing of its kind
[00:29:29.820] where we will attempt to get down to the
[00:29:31.140] bottom of what is actually happening
[00:29:32.399] with uaps but we'll hear from people who
[00:29:34.740] have had personal sightings rather than
[00:29:36.360] Pentagon bureaucrats who have always
[00:29:38.340] been sent to Stonewall investigations
[00:29:40.860] just so that the Press knows and the
[00:29:42.600] people know we were even denied access
[00:29:44.760] to a classified briefing in a skiff
[00:29:46.799] prior to this hearing due the amount of
[00:29:48.240] Hoops that we had to jump through to
[00:29:50.039] Grant temporary clearance to witness
[00:29:51.899] Crush who has knowledge of classified
[00:29:54.240] information
[00:29:55.559] it is time to have an open-minded
[00:29:57.299] discussion on this topic to hear the
[00:29:58.919] evidence and understand the magnitude of
[00:30:00.600] what this means not just for our nation
[00:30:01.919] but for Humanity thank you chairman I
[00:30:04.140] yield back the rest of my time
[00:30:06.000] thank you very much and I'd like to
[00:30:08.039] thank you thank you and Mr burchett for
[00:30:09.960] bringing this topic to my attention uh
[00:30:12.659] now we'll recognize National Security
[00:30:14.399] subcommittee ranking member Garcia for
[00:30:16.919] 10 minutes
[00:30:20.340] well thank you Mr chairman and I want to
[00:30:22.140] thank first our Witnesses for joining us
[00:30:24.000] today I want to begin by thanking you
[00:30:26.159] all for your service to our country I
[00:30:28.440] mean for sharing your voices uh today
[00:30:30.120] and your courage uh to be here as well
[00:30:31.799] uh to Mr Graves uh particularly grateful
[00:30:34.380] to you to spend some time that we had
[00:30:36.840] um for you to share with Candor um some
[00:30:38.580] of your experiences so I appreciate that
[00:30:40.200] as well I do want to thank all the
[00:30:42.960] members of our subcommittee today and
[00:30:44.820] also those that are here and have waved
[00:30:46.740] on for their incredible interest in this
[00:30:48.960] issue uh particularly to Congressman
[00:30:50.760] burchett I know that your leadership has
[00:30:52.980] brought us to this place today and I
[00:30:54.179] want to thank you for uh for that as
[00:30:55.919] well as everyone else that's been
[00:30:57.120] engaged in this work I also want to
[00:30:59.399] thank the oversight staff who I know has
[00:31:00.899] been working very hard to ensure that
[00:31:03.179] today's hearing is serious that it's
[00:31:05.580] transparent and that it also provides
[00:31:07.620] appropriate answers as our oversight
[00:31:09.600] body always demands now it's really
[00:31:12.419] important that we're here in a
[00:31:13.440] bipartisan way to have this conversation
[00:31:15.659] which really to the heart of it is about
[00:31:17.220] National Security and key to the
[00:31:19.559] subcommittee's Core purpose this is the
[00:31:21.360] subcommittee on National Security of the
[00:31:23.580] oversight committee now our witnesses
[00:31:25.620] will testify today that uaps have posed
[00:31:27.840] a serious safety threat and we must
[00:31:30.419] understand this more broadly we're
[00:31:32.279] dealing with real questions they get to
[00:31:33.779] the heart of our faith in government
[00:31:36.080] faith in our institutions as we all know
[00:31:38.220] is at an all-time low partisanship and
[00:31:40.620] alternative facts make it too easy to
[00:31:42.720] doubt narrative or into or our
[00:31:44.460] institutions but this hearing will offer
[00:31:46.440] the public unique perspectives building
[00:31:48.360] on years of reporting by both federal
[00:31:50.220] agencies and the Independent Media now
[00:31:53.279] some of the earliest reporting on this
[00:31:54.659] issue was a groundbreaking 2017 New York
[00:31:57.659] Times report which we which revealed
[00:31:59.700] research as we know now on unidentified
[00:32:01.679] anomalous phenomena as many call UFOs by
[00:32:04.860] the defense intelligence agency Mr
[00:32:07.260] Graves and Commander forever's
[00:32:08.460] experiences with uaps have also been
[00:32:10.500] documented by the public not just by the
[00:32:12.600] New York Times but CNN and many other
[00:32:14.820] national news outlets now the office of
[00:32:17.640] the Director of National Intelligence
[00:32:18.899] has published public reports doc
[00:32:20.279] committing uaps and on June 9 2022 NASA
[00:32:24.240] announced that the agency is
[00:32:25.140] commissioning a study to of course
[00:32:26.760] examine unidentified anomalous phenomena
[00:32:29.220] now the sheer number of reports
[00:32:30.720] whistleblowers and stories of
[00:32:32.220] unidentified anomalous phenomena should
[00:32:34.200] raise real questions and warrant
[00:32:35.880] investigation and oversight and that's
[00:32:37.919] why we are here today now Pilots have
[00:32:40.140] reported encounters for years now
[00:32:42.240] because of the stigma around reporting
[00:32:43.919] these incidents we still don't have a
[00:32:45.659] complete picture of actually what's
[00:32:47.340] going on particularly as our witnesses
[00:32:49.799] will testify on the civilian side and
[00:32:52.140] that is a real problem that we have
[00:32:53.880] today in the country now it's very
[00:32:55.740] important that we show that Democrats
[00:32:57.179] and Republicans in Congress can come
[00:32:59.340] together in a bipartisan way to cut
[00:33:01.799] through misinformation and to look at
[00:33:03.179] the facts in a serious and thoughtful
[00:33:04.919] manner if we are to advance oversight
[00:33:07.260] and public disclosure we must also gain
[00:33:09.539] the broad support of the public we will
[00:33:12.539] succeed getting facts out to the public
[00:33:14.399] faster if there is a broad public
[00:33:16.620] support as part of the process now I
[00:33:19.140] understand fully the Department of
[00:33:20.340] Defense is hesitant to share information
[00:33:22.260] that could also undermine our national
[00:33:24.240] security by revealing information on the
[00:33:26.519] capabilities of our own aircraft our
[00:33:28.740] sensors and other sensitive material at
[00:33:31.919] the same time many people believe that
[00:33:33.659] we're withholding information from them
[00:33:35.340] and that is dangerous also I believe in
[00:33:38.100] openness and transparency that is also
[00:33:40.440] the role of Congress and I want to trust
[00:33:42.779] that the American people will be able to
[00:33:44.340] weigh the evidence and make up their own
[00:33:46.260] minds now we have incidents where
[00:33:48.480] sensors sometimes even multiple types of
[00:33:50.640] sensors detect things that we cannot
[00:33:52.320] explain
[00:33:53.360] uaps whatever they may be May pose a
[00:33:56.700] serious threat to our military or
[00:33:58.140] civilian aircraft and that must be
[00:34:00.299] understood
[00:34:01.380] now my career in training as a long time
[00:34:03.840] and career educator and teacher and
[00:34:05.880] researcher tell me that we should never
[00:34:07.980] rule anything out
[00:34:09.899] we know that our space of course is vast
[00:34:12.300] and undiscovered
[00:34:13.740] I also want to note that Mr Sean
[00:34:15.179] Kirkpatrick director of the all domain
[00:34:16.859] anomaly resolution office the component
[00:34:19.139] of the dod office that investigates UAP
[00:34:21.179] data has testified before the Senate
[00:34:23.460] this year that his unit has found no
[00:34:25.740] evidence of extra extra activity NASA
[00:34:28.500] has also stated that they don't have
[00:34:29.580] evidence of extraterrestrial life either
[00:34:31.980] and we've heard this of course from some
[00:34:33.659] of our government agencies and we should
[00:34:36.060] remind viewers and Witnesses which I
[00:34:37.560] think is really important that we also
[00:34:39.240] cannot share classified information in
[00:34:41.700] public settings but questions of course
[00:34:43.980] remain
[00:34:45.179] that people want to see data and
[00:34:46.740] information for themselves the enormous
[00:34:48.659] interest in the hearing today
[00:34:49.560] underscores the importance of a fair and
[00:34:51.240] open look at the evidence from Witnesses
[00:34:54.179] who can share their unique perspectives
[00:34:55.679] now I know I certainly have a lot of
[00:34:57.720] questions I know that all the members of
[00:34:59.339] our committee do as well
[00:35:01.140] we should come to this hearing with an
[00:35:03.000] open mind and we should not let our
[00:35:04.920] existing ideas restrict us on either
[00:35:07.320] side I hear over and over from many
[00:35:09.359] agencies a stigma around reporting and
[00:35:11.220] investigating uaps
[00:35:13.079] prevents us from getting real answers we
[00:35:15.780] know that whistleblowers have reported
[00:35:17.040] harassment intimidation or stigma as
[00:35:18.900] well and this is not acceptable if
[00:35:21.240] people can't report incidents which
[00:35:22.980] would have National Security or safety
[00:35:24.960] implications then that also has serious
[00:35:26.760] consequences for us as ranking member of
[00:35:29.099] this subcommittee I know it's my I know
[00:35:31.020] my job would be completely impossible if
[00:35:33.060] whistleblowers or others feel
[00:35:34.200] intimidated to come before this
[00:35:35.460] committee we can't be afraid of asking
[00:35:37.560] questions and we can't be afraid of the
[00:35:39.660] truth I'm proud to say that that's a
[00:35:41.640] hearing builds upon bipartisan work by
[00:35:43.320] members of the House and Senate dating
[00:35:45.300] many years back which is sought to
[00:35:46.560] increase awareness within the Department
[00:35:47.820] of Defense and more and to mandate more
[00:35:50.280] of Congress of uaps we know the Senate
[00:35:53.400] is taking up an amendment to their
[00:35:54.660] defense authorization bill which will
[00:35:56.460] create a commission with broad
[00:35:57.720] declassification Authority and we can
[00:35:59.820] should all agree that that is an
[00:36:01.020] important step members of both parties
[00:36:03.180] and Senior officials in multiple
[00:36:04.440] administrations have taken an interest
[00:36:06.240] in this issue and we're proud to carry
[00:36:08.460] and build that confidence in the
[00:36:09.839] American people this hearing will also
[00:36:11.880] not be the end of this discussion but a
[00:36:14.400] new chapter and start to years and years
[00:36:16.500] of work that many folks both in both in
[00:36:18.660] the public and within government have
[00:36:20.280] been working on we should encourage more
[00:36:22.440] reporting not less on uaps the more they
[00:36:25.859] under we understand the safer we will be
[00:36:28.200] we looked your testimony from Witnesses
[00:36:30.420] today with a long record of service to
[00:36:32.579] the American people and with subject
[00:36:33.960] matter expertise art Witnesses have a
[00:36:36.180] unique opportunity to share the
[00:36:37.320] prospective insights and their
[00:36:39.599] experiences with the American people and
[00:36:41.880] I encourage all of my colleagues to
[00:36:43.500] engage with these difficult questions
[00:36:44.760] with an open mind and to follow the
[00:36:46.800] facts on behalf of our country I also
[00:36:50.339] just want to say more broadly that we
[00:36:52.380] should look at this hearing with and
[00:36:53.820] believe that everything is on the table
[00:36:55.140] as it relates to uaps I think we an open
[00:36:57.119] mind is absolutely the best I want to
[00:36:59.339] yield there are two and a half minutes
[00:37:00.660] of the remainder of my time to the
[00:37:02.579] representative from Florida
[00:37:03.420] representative Moskowitz for an opening
[00:37:05.820] statement he also has been very much
[00:37:07.619] engaged in this issue and I want to
[00:37:08.820] thank him for his leadership Congressman
[00:37:11.359] thank you ranking member Garcia thank
[00:37:13.980] you Mr chairman I want to thank uh Tim
[00:37:16.140] burchett and Anna Paulina Luna for their
[00:37:18.420] leadership in pushing uh this hearing
[00:37:21.000] forward I want to thank uh obviously
[00:37:23.099] committee staff and their staff working
[00:37:24.359] on this on a bipartisan basis because
[00:37:27.000] many Americans are deeply interested uh
[00:37:29.400] in this issue and it shouldn't take the
[00:37:31.859] potential of non-human origin to bring
[00:37:34.079] us together
[00:37:35.060] additionally I want to thank the
[00:37:36.540] witnesses for for coming forward to
[00:37:38.280] share your perspectives your thoughts
[00:37:39.780] and the sightings of uaps unlike other
[00:37:42.780] hearings many times in Congress you're
[00:37:45.359] not here to help a political party but
[00:37:47.460] you're here to share information with
[00:37:49.500] the American people
[00:37:51.119] and it's not something that is just
[00:37:52.859] going on in this Administration it's
[00:37:54.060] something that's spanned many
[00:37:56.460] administrations for decades many
[00:37:58.380] Americans have been fascinated by
[00:37:59.940] objects mysterious and unexplained and
[00:38:02.700] it's long past time that they got some
[00:38:04.560] answers
[00:38:05.579] the American public has a right to learn
[00:38:07.740] about Technologies of unknown Origins
[00:38:10.820] non-human intelligence and unexplainable
[00:38:13.680] phenomena
[00:38:14.940] those are not the words of a UFO Twitter
[00:38:17.280] account though that is a direct quote
[00:38:19.800] for majority leader Chuck Schumer that
[00:38:22.260] the American public has a right to learn
[00:38:23.760] about Technologies of unknown Origins
[00:38:25.760] non-human intelligence and unexplainable
[00:38:28.500] phenomena in an interview with Fox News
[00:38:30.960] recent former Director of National
[00:38:32.579] Intelligence John Radcliffe confirmed
[00:38:34.619] the U.S government is aware a lot more
[00:38:37.380] sightings of uaps and that they have not
[00:38:41.099] made that information public I quote
[00:38:43.079] there are a lot more sightings that have
[00:38:45.000] not been made public Radcliffe said to
[00:38:47.220] Fox News
[00:38:48.480] for me this hearing is about
[00:38:49.740] transparency we unfortunately live in a
[00:38:52.920] time in which many people distrust
[00:38:54.660] government and our institutions and over
[00:38:56.640] classification of information away from
[00:38:59.160] the American public or even Congress
[00:39:01.200] contributes to today's Politics the
[00:39:03.720] American people have regular questions
[00:39:04.920] what are uaps how come the media doesn't
[00:39:07.619] report more on them are they foreign
[00:39:09.480] adversaries are the U.S technology are
[00:39:12.119] they something else they ask themselves
[00:39:14.339] how come when a Russian jet shoots
[00:39:16.380] flares at one of our drones we have
[00:39:19.020] perfect pictures and videos to show the
[00:39:21.359] American people and the world but when
[00:39:23.760] it comes to uaps nothing
[00:39:26.940] of course we must always protect our
[00:39:28.859] national security to maintain our
[00:39:30.780] superiority like when stealth
[00:39:32.880] helicopters were only rumored to exist
[00:39:35.820] but were used in the Osama Bin Laden
[00:39:37.920] raid in 2011. but we can't allow that to
[00:39:41.640] be used as a shield to keep the American
[00:39:43.980] people completely in the dark from basic
[00:39:47.099] truths the American people deserve to
[00:39:49.560] hear more about special access programs
[00:39:51.599] Congress has a right to know if there's
[00:39:53.640] any unsanctioned weapons development
[00:39:56.820] satellite imagery that has not been
[00:39:58.740] provided to Congress
[00:40:00.420] Congress created the all-demain
[00:40:02.280] resolution office in the ndaa of 2022
[00:40:05.280] in its initial analysis there are 171
[00:40:10.099] uncharacterized UAP reports and this is
[00:40:12.839] the words from the report that appear to
[00:40:15.300] have demonstrated unusual flight
[00:40:17.160] characteristics or performance
[00:40:18.900] capabilities
[00:40:20.160] I believe more information is known
[00:40:21.900] about the 171 instances
[00:40:24.599] it's time for Congress to reinsert
[00:40:26.460] ourselves I call on our military leaders
[00:40:28.800] and intelligence officials to release
[00:40:30.780] more information to the American people
[00:40:32.700] about uaps
[00:40:34.260] and to our military leaders if there's
[00:40:36.900] nothing to conceal let Congress go to
[00:40:40.200] write Patterson Air Force Base The
[00:40:42.119] dugway Proving Ground or even Groom Lake
[00:40:44.460] in Nevada
[00:40:45.839] we should have disclosure today we
[00:40:48.180] should have disclosure tomorrow the time
[00:40:50.400] has come thank you ranking member
[00:40:53.579] thank you Mr Moskowitz and I would yield
[00:40:55.079] back now to our chairman thank you
[00:40:58.079] right now I'd like to introduce our
[00:40:59.760] Witnesses our first Witnesses Lieutenant
[00:41:01.680] Ryan Graves he's the executive director
[00:41:04.140] of Americans for safe Aerospace
[00:41:06.180] Lieutenant Graves is also a former U.S
[00:41:08.760] Navy F-18 pilot with the Zone UAP
[00:41:11.640] experience the next witness David grush
[00:41:15.060] is a former senior intelligence officer
[00:41:17.160] with the National geospatial
[00:41:19.020] Intelligence Agency and was a senior
[00:41:21.119] technical advisor for UAP issues and
[00:41:24.240] finally finally retired Navy commanded
[00:41:26.640] date Commander David fraver Squadron
[00:41:29.579] leader who worked as a Naval aviator for
[00:41:31.740] 18 years Mr fraver has his own UAP
[00:41:34.980] experience known as The Tick Tock event
[00:41:37.200] I look forward to hearing from all three
[00:41:39.240] of you today
[00:41:41.280] um pursuant to committee rule 9g the
[00:41:44.099] witnesses will please stand and raise
[00:41:45.540] their right hands
[00:41:49.020] do you solemnly swear or affirm that the
[00:41:52.140] testimony you are about to give is the
[00:41:53.520] truth the whole truth and nothing but
[00:41:54.839] the truth so helped you God
[00:41:58.140] let the records show that all the
[00:42:00.060] witnesses answered in the affirmative
[00:42:01.500] you may be seated
[00:42:03.540] we appreciate you all being here today
[00:42:05.280] and look forward to your testimony I'll
[00:42:07.140] remind the witnesses that we have read
[00:42:08.700] your written statements and they will
[00:42:10.440] appear in full in the hearing record
[00:42:11.880] please try to limit your oral statements
[00:42:14.280] to five minutes as a reminder please
[00:42:16.500] press the button on the microphone in
[00:42:18.180] front of you so that it's on and the
[00:42:20.339] members can hear you when you begin to
[00:42:22.260] speak the light in front of you will
[00:42:23.579] turn green after four minutes it'll turn
[00:42:25.980] yellow and the red light when that comes
[00:42:28.500] on it tells you your five minutes have
[00:42:30.599] expired I'll now recognize Mr Graves for
[00:42:33.839] five minutes for your opening statement
[00:42:36.540] thank you
[00:42:37.980] chairman grothman ranking member Garcia
[00:42:40.260] distinguished members of the House
[00:42:41.640] oversight subcommittee on National
[00:42:43.140] Security representative burchett and
[00:42:45.119] Luna
[00:42:46.260] my name is Ryan Fox Graves and I'm a
[00:42:48.599] former F-18 pilot with a decade of
[00:42:50.280] service in the U.S Navy including two
[00:42:52.079] deployments in operation enduring
[00:42:53.640] freedom and operation inherent resolve I
[00:42:56.339] have experience Advanced UAP firsthand
[00:42:58.140] and I'm here to voice the concerns of
[00:42:59.700] more than 30 commercial air crew and
[00:43:01.319] military veterans who have confided
[00:43:02.819] their similar encounters with me
[00:43:05.160] today I would like to highlight three
[00:43:07.140] critical issues that demand our action
[00:43:09.660] as we convene here UAP are in our
[00:43:12.000] airspace but they are grossly
[00:43:13.619] under-reported these sightings are not
[00:43:15.599] rare or isolated they are routine
[00:43:17.280] military air crew and commercial pilots
[00:43:19.500] trained observers whose lives depend on
[00:43:21.480] accurate identification are frequently
[00:43:23.460] witnessing these phenomena
[00:43:26.160] the stigma attached to UAP is real and
[00:43:28.560] powerful and challenges National
[00:43:29.940] Security
[00:43:31.380] it silences commercial pilots who fear
[00:43:33.300] professional repercussions discourages
[00:43:34.980] Witnesses it is only compounded by
[00:43:36.960] recent government claims questioning the
[00:43:38.579] credibility of eyewitness testimony
[00:43:41.280] parts of our government are aware of
[00:43:42.900] more about UAP than they let on the
[00:43:45.060] excessive classification practices keep
[00:43:46.800] crucial information hidden since 2021
[00:43:49.619] all UAP videos are classified as secret
[00:43:51.960] or above this level of secrecy not only
[00:43:54.119] impedes our understanding but fuels
[00:43:55.980] speculation and mistrust
[00:43:58.800] in 2014 I was an F-18 foxtrot pilot in
[00:44:02.460] the Navy fighter attack Squadron 11 the
[00:44:04.440] red Rippers
[00:44:05.819] and I was stationed at NAS Oceana in
[00:44:07.980] Virginia Beach
[00:44:09.240] after upgrades were made to our Jets
[00:44:10.980] radar systems we began detecting unknown
[00:44:12.960] objects operating in our airspace
[00:44:15.780] at first we assume there are radar
[00:44:17.579] errors but soon we began to correlate
[00:44:19.740] the radar tract with multiple onboard
[00:44:21.180] sensors including infrared systems
[00:44:22.980] eventually through Visual ID
[00:44:26.099] during a training mission in morning
[00:44:27.660] area whiskey 72 10 miles off the coast
[00:44:30.240] of Virginia Beach two F-18 Super Hornets
[00:44:32.700] were split by UAP
[00:44:34.380] the object described as a dark gray or a
[00:44:36.780] black Cube inside of a clear sphere came
[00:44:38.940] within 50 feet of the lead aircraft and
[00:44:40.920] was estimated to be 5 to 15 feet in
[00:44:42.960] diameter the mission Commander
[00:44:44.760] terminated the flight immediately and
[00:44:46.140] returned base
[00:44:47.460] our Squadron submitted a safety report
[00:44:49.140] but there was no official acknowledgment
[00:44:50.940] of the incident and no further mechanism
[00:44:52.500] to report the sightings
[00:44:54.900] soon these encounters became so frequent
[00:44:56.819] that aircrew would discuss the risk of
[00:44:58.140] UAP as part of their regular PreFlight
[00:45:00.359] briefs
[00:45:03.900] recognizing the need for action and
[00:45:05.640] answers I founded Americans for safe
[00:45:07.380] Aerospace the organization has since
[00:45:09.359] become a heaven for UAP Witnesses who
[00:45:11.339] were previously unspoken due to the
[00:45:12.780] absence of a safe intake process more
[00:45:15.300] than 30 Witnesses have come forward in
[00:45:16.859] almost 5 000 Americans have joined us in
[00:45:18.780] the fight for transparency at safe
[00:45:20.579] aerospace.org
[00:45:22.319] the majority of Witnesses are commercial
[00:45:24.000] pilots at majority major airlines often
[00:45:27.300] they are veterans with Decades of flying
[00:45:28.980] experience Pilots are reporting UAP at
[00:45:31.319] altitudes that appear above them at
[00:45:33.240] forty thousand feet potentially in low
[00:45:35.040] earth orbit or in the gray Zone below
[00:45:36.720] the Carmen line
[00:45:37.920] making inexplainable Maneuvers like
[00:45:40.319] right hand turns and retrograde orbits
[00:45:42.180] or j-hooks
[00:45:43.619] sometimes these reports are reoccurring
[00:45:45.540] with numerous recent sightings north of
[00:45:47.220] Y and in the North Atlantic
[00:45:50.099] other veterans are also coming forward
[00:45:51.720] to us regarding UAP Encounters in our
[00:45:53.760] airspace
[00:45:55.079] and oceans the most compelling involved
[00:45:57.420] observations of UAP by multiple
[00:45:58.980] Witnesses and sensor systems I believe
[00:46:00.900] these accounts are only scratching the
[00:46:02.640] surface and more will share their
[00:46:04.079] experiences once it is safe to do so
[00:46:07.140] in closing I recognize the skepticism
[00:46:09.240] surrounding this topic
[00:46:10.920] if everyone could see the sensor and
[00:46:12.599] video data I've witnessed our national
[00:46:14.400] conversation would change
[00:46:16.020] I urge us to put aside stigma and
[00:46:17.819] address the security and safety issue
[00:46:19.260] this topic represents if you appear
[00:46:21.420] foreign drones it is an urgent national
[00:46:23.400] security problem if it is something else
[00:46:25.500] it is an issue for science
[00:46:28.020] in either case unidentified objects are
[00:46:30.119] concerned for flight safety the American
[00:46:31.980] people deserve to know what is happening
[00:46:33.480] in our skies it is long overdue
[00:46:36.420] thank you
[00:46:40.020] Mr Rush
[00:46:44.940] Mr chairman ranking members and
[00:46:46.980] congressmen thank you I'm happy to be
[00:46:49.140] here this is an important issue and I'm
[00:46:50.880] grateful for your time
[00:46:52.500] my name is David Charles grush I was an
[00:46:54.960] intelligence officer for 14 years in the
[00:46:57.599] both in the U.S Air Force both active
[00:47:00.180] duty Air National Guard and Reserve at
[00:47:02.880] the rank of major and most recently from
[00:47:05.160] 2021 to 2025 or excuse me 2023 at the
[00:47:10.079] National geospatial Intelligence Agency
[00:47:11.880] NGA at the gs-15 civilian level which is
[00:47:15.839] the military equivalent of a full bird
[00:47:17.579] colonel
[00:47:19.319] I was my agency's co-lead and
[00:47:21.180] unidentified anomalous phenomena and
[00:47:23.040] transmedium object analysis as well as
[00:47:26.220] reporting to the UAP task force uaptf
[00:47:29.520] and eventually once it was established
[00:47:32.099] the all domain anomaly resolution office
[00:47:34.560] Arrow
[00:47:36.000] I became a whistleblower through a PPD
[00:47:39.240] 19
[00:47:40.619] urgent concern filing in May 2022 with
[00:47:44.099] the intelligence Community Inspector
[00:47:45.900] General
[00:47:46.980] following concerning reports from
[00:47:49.079] multiple esteemed and credentialed
[00:47:51.060] current and former military and
[00:47:53.640] intelligence Community individuals that
[00:47:55.920] the U.S government is operating with
[00:47:58.079] secrecy
[00:47:59.220] above congressional oversight with
[00:48:02.040] regards to uaps
[00:48:04.020] my testimony is based on information
[00:48:05.760] I've been given by individuals with a
[00:48:08.460] long-standing track record of legitimacy
[00:48:11.160] and service to this country
[00:48:14.040] many of whom also have shared compelling
[00:48:16.079] evidence in the form of photography
[00:48:18.119] official documentation and classified
[00:48:20.700] oral testimony to myself and many my
[00:48:23.700] various colleagues
[00:48:25.560] I have taken every step I can to
[00:48:27.660] collaborate this evidence over a period
[00:48:29.579] of four years while I was with the UAP
[00:48:32.099] task force and do my due diligence on
[00:48:35.099] the individual sharing it this is
[00:48:37.319] because of these steps I believe
[00:48:39.420] strongly in the importance of bringing
[00:48:41.880] this information before you
[00:48:43.859] I am driven by a commitment of both to
[00:48:46.500] truth and transparency
[00:48:48.420] rooted in our inherent duty to uphold
[00:48:50.700] the United States Constitution and
[00:48:53.220] protect the American people
[00:48:55.560] I'm asking Congress to hold our
[00:48:57.240] government to the standard and
[00:48:58.740] thoroughly investigate these claims
[00:49:01.200] but as I stand here under oath now I am
[00:49:03.720] speaking to the facts as I have been
[00:49:05.520] told them
[00:49:06.839] in the U.S Air Force in my national
[00:49:09.240] reconnaissance office nro reserves
[00:49:11.760] capacity I was a member of the UAP task
[00:49:14.099] force from 2019 to 2021. I served at the
[00:49:18.240] narrow operations center on the
[00:49:19.800] director's briefing staff which included
[00:49:22.380] the coordination of the presidential
[00:49:23.700] Daily Brief and supporting variety of
[00:49:26.220] contingency operations which I was the
[00:49:28.500] reserve Intelligence Division Chief back
[00:49:30.839] up
[00:49:32.280] in 2019 the UAP task force director
[00:49:36.359] asked me to identify all special access
[00:49:39.060] programs and controlled access programs
[00:49:42.240] also known as saps and caps we needed to
[00:49:45.540] satisfy our congressionally mandated
[00:49:47.579] Mission and we were direct report at the
[00:49:49.980] time to the depth sect deaf
[00:49:52.619] at the time due to my extensive
[00:49:54.660] executive level intelligence support
[00:49:56.160] duties I was cleared to literally all
[00:49:58.640] relevant compartments and in a position
[00:50:01.380] of extreme trust both in my military and
[00:50:04.260] civilian capacities
[00:50:06.060] I was informed in the course of my
[00:50:08.579] official duties of a multi-decade UAP
[00:50:12.180] crash retrieval and reverse engineering
[00:50:14.700] program
[00:50:16.500] to which I was denied access to those
[00:50:18.420] additional read-ons when I requested it
[00:50:22.140] I made the decision based on the data I
[00:50:24.540] collected to report this information to
[00:50:26.880] my Superior
[00:50:28.200] superiors and multiple inspectors
[00:50:30.240] General and in effect becoming a
[00:50:32.339] whistleblower
[00:50:33.480] as you know I've suffered retaliation
[00:50:36.300] for my decision but I am hopeful that my
[00:50:38.760] actions will ultimately lead to a
[00:50:41.280] positive outcome of increased
[00:50:42.960] transparency
[00:50:44.160] uh thank you and I'm happy to answer
[00:50:45.720] your questions
[00:50:47.339] thank you uh Commander favor
[00:50:52.980] uh thank you thank you Mr chairman
[00:50:55.040] Congressman congresswoman
[00:50:58.500] um I want to first thank you for the
[00:51:00.119] invitation to speak to the committee on
[00:51:01.319] the UAP topic this has been in the news
[00:51:02.819] for the past six years and seems to be
[00:51:04.440] continuing to gain momentum
[00:51:06.540] as you know my name is David fraver I'm
[00:51:08.160] retired commander in the United States
[00:51:09.420] Navy in 2004 I was a commanding officer
[00:51:12.059] of Strike Fighter Squadron 41 the world
[00:51:13.800] famous Black Aces if you're a test to
[00:51:16.200] carrier 11 station on board the USS
[00:51:18.059] Nimitz and have begun a two-month
[00:51:19.500] work-up cycle off the coast of
[00:51:21.000] California
[00:51:22.920] on this day we were scheduled for a 2v2
[00:51:24.780] area training with the USS Princeton as
[00:51:26.700] our control
[00:51:27.960] when we launched off knewitz my wingman
[00:51:30.059] was joining up we were told that the
[00:51:31.559] training was going to be suspended and
[00:51:33.300] we're doing we're going to proceed with
[00:51:35.099] real world tasking
[00:51:37.440] as we proceeded to the West the air
[00:51:39.000] controller was counting down the range
[00:51:40.380] to an object that we were going to and
[00:51:41.819] we're unaware of what we were going to
[00:51:43.140] see when we arrived
[00:51:47.220] their uh the controller told us that
[00:51:49.079] these objects had been observed for over
[00:51:51.480] two weeks coming down from over 80 000
[00:51:53.220] feet rapidly descending to 20 000 feet
[00:51:55.920] hanging out for hours and then going
[00:51:57.780] straight back up for those who don't
[00:51:59.160] realize above 80 000 feet is space
[00:52:02.280] we arrived at the location at
[00:52:03.839] approximately 20 000 feet in a
[00:52:05.339] controller called merge plot which means
[00:52:06.780] that our radar blip was now in the same
[00:52:08.160] resolution cell as the contact
[00:52:10.500] as we looked around we noticed that we
[00:52:12.180] saw some white water off our right side
[00:52:13.680] it's important to note the weather on
[00:52:15.359] this day was as close to perfect as you
[00:52:17.460] could ask for off the coast of San Diego
[00:52:18.839] clear skies light winds calm seas no
[00:52:21.119] White Caps from waves so the White Water
[00:52:23.099] stood out in a large Blue Ocean
[00:52:25.380] all four of us because we were an f-18fs
[00:52:27.359] so we had pilots and wizzo in the back
[00:52:28.800] seat looked down a small saw white
[00:52:30.839] Tic-Tac object with a longitudinal axis
[00:52:32.940] pointing North South and moving very
[00:52:34.740] abruptly over the water like a ping pong
[00:52:37.319] ball there were no rotors no rotor wash
[00:52:39.780] or any sign of visible control surfaces
[00:52:42.059] like wings as we started clockwise
[00:52:44.400] towards the object My Wizard and I
[00:52:45.839] decided to go down and take a closer
[00:52:47.339] look with the other aircraft staying in
[00:52:48.720] High cover to observe both us and the
[00:52:50.280] Tic Tac
[00:52:52.079] we proceeded around the circle about 90
[00:52:53.940] degrees from the start of our descent
[00:52:55.500] and the object object suddenly shifted
[00:52:58.500] its longitudinal axis aligned it with my
[00:53:00.839] aircraft and began to climb
[00:53:03.780] we continue down another 270 degrees
[00:53:05.940] nose low where the Tic Tac or we
[00:53:08.819] consumed 270 degrees toward and we went
[00:53:11.579] nose load where the Tic Tac would have
[00:53:13.140] been our altitude at this point was
[00:53:14.760] about 15 000 feet and the Tic Tac was
[00:53:16.500] about twelve thousand as we pulled those
[00:53:18.240] onto the object within about a half mile
[00:53:19.859] of it it rapidly accelerated in front of
[00:53:22.020] us and disappeared our wing men roughly
[00:53:24.119] 8 000 feet above us lost contact also we
[00:53:27.000] immediately turned back to see where the
[00:53:28.440] white water was at and it was gone also
[00:53:30.660] so as you started to turn back towards
[00:53:32.460] the east the controller came up and said
[00:53:33.960] sir you're not going to believe this but
[00:53:35.160] that thing is at your cat Point roughly
[00:53:36.540] 60 miles away in less than a minute you
[00:53:39.000] can calculate the speed we return to
[00:53:41.099] Nimitz we were taking off our gear we
[00:53:43.020] were talking to one of my Cruisers
[00:53:43.980] getting ready to launch we mentioned it
[00:53:45.300] to him and they went out and luckily got
[00:53:47.280] the video that you see that 90 second
[00:53:48.780] video what you don't see is the radar
[00:53:51.000] tape that was never released and we
[00:53:52.319] don't know where it's at the act of
[00:53:54.119] jamming that the object put on an apg-73
[00:53:56.220] radar and I can get into modes later if
[00:53:58.319] you're interested
[00:53:59.940] what is shocking to us is that the
[00:54:01.440] incident was never investigated none of
[00:54:03.000] my crew ever questioned tapes were never
[00:54:04.440] taken and after a couple days it turned
[00:54:06.059] into a great story with friends it
[00:54:07.920] wasn't until 2009 until Jay Stratton had
[00:54:10.140] contacted me to investigate
[00:54:11.660] unbeknownstall he was part of the atip
[00:54:13.619] program in the Pentagon led by louisando
[00:54:17.099] and there was an official official
[00:54:18.780] report that came out that's now on the
[00:54:20.099] internet years later I was contacted by
[00:54:22.200] the other pilot Alex Dietrich and asked
[00:54:24.119] if I'd been contacted and I said no but
[00:54:25.800] I'm willing to talk
[00:54:27.059] I was contacted by Mr Elizondo and we
[00:54:30.599] talked for a short period of time and he
[00:54:32.160] said we'd be in contact a few weeks
[00:54:34.380] after that I was made a word that lewd
[00:54:35.819] left the Pentagon in protest and joined
[00:54:37.800] forces with Tom Delong Chris melon Steve
[00:54:39.839] Justice and others to form two stars
[00:54:41.460] Academy an organization that pressed the
[00:54:43.500] issue with leading industry experts and
[00:54:45.000] U.S government officials they worked
[00:54:46.800] with Leslie Keane who was president
[00:54:47.880] today Rob Blumenthal and Helene Cooper
[00:54:49.740] to publish the articles in the New York
[00:54:51.300] Times 2017 New York Times and it removed
[00:54:55.079] the stigma on the topic of UFOs which is
[00:54:57.240] why we're here today
[00:54:58.680] those articles open the door for the
[00:55:00.839] government and public that cannot be
[00:55:02.040] closed it has led to an interest from
[00:55:03.660] our elected officials who are not
[00:55:05.339] focused on Little Green Men but figuring
[00:55:07.260] out where these crafts are where they
[00:55:09.300] from the technology they possess how do
[00:55:11.579] they operate it also led to the
[00:55:13.200] Whistleblower protection act in the ndaa
[00:55:14.880] there are multiple Witnesses coming
[00:55:16.619] forward to say uh that have first-hand
[00:55:19.319] knowledge and and Mr grush just covered
[00:55:21.180] that what concerns me is that there's no
[00:55:22.619] oversight from our elected officials on
[00:55:24.119] anything associated with our government
[00:55:25.380] processing or working on Craft
[00:55:27.720] I believe not from this world this issue
[00:55:30.240] is not a full public disclosure that
[00:55:31.980] could undermine National Security but it
[00:55:33.839] is about ensuring that our system of
[00:55:35.099] checks and balances Works across all
[00:55:36.720] work done in the government using
[00:55:37.740] taxpayer funds relative to government
[00:55:39.720] programs even unacknowledged wave
[00:55:41.400] programs have some level of oversight by
[00:55:43.319] the appropriate committee members in the
[00:55:44.640] House and Senate and this work that is
[00:55:46.680] said to be occurring from whistleblower
[00:55:48.000] testimonies should not be exempt in
[00:55:50.040] closing I would like to say that the Tic
[00:55:51.480] Tac object we engaged in 2004 was far
[00:55:53.520] superior to anything that we had on time
[00:55:55.260] have today or looking to develop in the
[00:55:57.720] next 10 years if we in fact have
[00:55:59.520] programs that possess this technology
[00:56:00.960] and needs to have oversight from those
[00:56:02.579] people that the citizens of this great
[00:56:04.260] country elected in office to represent
[00:56:06.480] what is best for the United States and
[00:56:08.339] best for the citizens I thank you for
[00:56:09.720] your time thank you very much thank you
[00:56:12.059] very much I know it's very difficult for
[00:56:13.680] all of you all you've done in the past
[00:56:14.940] to try to illuminate this issue call
[00:56:17.520] myself first for some questions I'm
[00:56:19.920] going to start with Mr Graves
[00:56:22.140] um are your Pilots our Pilots that you
[00:56:24.480] interact with as part of your
[00:56:25.619] organization do you feel adequately
[00:56:27.780] trained and briefed on how to handle
[00:56:29.520] encounters with uaps
[00:56:31.680] no right now uh military witnesses to
[00:56:35.040] UAP have limited options for reporting
[00:56:37.319] UAP but more more concerning is that
[00:56:40.680] commercial Aviation sector has not
[00:56:43.079] adapted to the lessons that the military
[00:56:45.000] has implemented the military and
[00:56:47.700] Department defense has stated that UAP
[00:56:49.500] represent a critical Aviation safety
[00:56:52.079] risk we have not seen that that same
[00:56:54.859] that same language being used in the
[00:56:57.059] commercial markets they are not
[00:56:58.140] acknowledging this risk okay what steps
[00:57:00.720] do you think you have to be taken to
[00:57:01.859] improve a pilot's UAP reporting
[00:57:04.740] be it military or commercial
[00:57:06.839] right now we need a system where Pilots
[00:57:08.760] can report without fear of losing their
[00:57:10.920] jobs there is a fear that the stigma
[00:57:13.619] associated with this topic is going to
[00:57:15.240] lead to professional repercussions
[00:57:16.559] either through management or perhaps
[00:57:18.240] through their yearly physical check so
[00:57:20.520] having a secure system reducing the
[00:57:22.559] stigma and making this available this
[00:57:24.780] information available through the public
[00:57:26.160] is going to reduce the concerns that
[00:57:28.740] aircrew have could you just give me a
[00:57:30.480] little idea that the degree to which
[00:57:32.160] reports in the past are are not made
[00:57:34.559] public right now
[00:57:36.420] well I don't think there has been a
[00:57:38.460] proper reporting system to gather those
[00:57:40.200] reports and thus not report them so to
[00:57:42.780] answer your question I think there is a
[00:57:44.160] dearth of data due to the fact that the
[00:57:45.780] reporting has been limited up to this
[00:57:47.160] time could you tell me why you believe
[00:57:49.319] it's
[00:57:50.760] kind of play The Devil's Advocate a
[00:57:52.559] reason why some of this stuff should not
[00:57:54.180] be available to the public
[00:57:56.400] there's certainly some National Security
[00:57:57.780] concerns when we use our Advanced
[00:57:59.579] sensors and our tactical Jets to be able
[00:58:01.500] to identify these these objects however
[00:58:04.020] there's no reason that the objects
[00:58:05.579] themselves would be classified I would
[00:58:07.920] be curious to see how the security
[00:58:09.300] classification guideline actually spells
[00:58:11.579] out the different nuances of how this
[00:58:13.680] topic is classified from the from the
[00:58:15.720] perspective of UAP not National Security
[00:58:18.420] I'll give you a follow-up on that
[00:58:19.920] assuming that there are reasons why not
[00:58:22.140] all this should be made public this has
[00:58:24.480] been around for a long period of time
[00:58:27.660] um can you think of can any of the three
[00:58:29.400] of you think of any reason why anything
[00:58:31.980] related to uaps say 15 years in back
[00:58:36.000] should not be immediately made public
[00:58:42.180] one of it is uh acknowledging a
[00:58:45.059] vulnerability both from a collection and
[00:58:47.640] I'll just say A you know countermeasure
[00:58:49.260] perspective so it's uh no we haven't
[00:58:51.420] cracked for many years yeah even say 20
[00:58:53.400] years back is there any reason why when
[00:58:55.140] you go back that far things shouldn't be
[00:58:56.760] made public
[00:58:58.940] unless it shows a specific National
[00:59:00.960] Security vulnerability as it relates to
[00:59:03.720] a weakness and particular defenses okay
[00:59:06.119] Mr fraver the Tic Tac incident that you
[00:59:08.640] and that with that you were engaged
[00:59:10.920] occurred in 2004 what kind of reporting
[00:59:13.440] took place after that incident
[00:59:17.280] before the backseaters went down to our
[00:59:19.140] carrier Intel Center and brief what had
[00:59:21.240] happened and that was it no one else
[00:59:24.000] talked to us and I was in the top 20 in
[00:59:26.160] the battle group no one came
[00:59:28.020] that Captain was aware that was aware
[00:59:30.000] nothing was done you're commanding
[00:59:31.859] officers provide any sort of
[00:59:33.180] justification
[00:59:35.220] no because I was a commanding officer of
[00:59:37.500] the Squadron so no
[00:59:40.020] was this incident the only UAP event
[00:59:42.780] that you encountered while you were a
[00:59:44.160] pilot
[00:59:45.119] yes it was okay
[00:59:47.640] um this is for any one of you based on
[00:59:49.319] based off of each of your experiences
[00:59:51.240] and observations do you believe uaps
[00:59:54.000] pose a Potential Threat to our national
[00:59:55.740] security
[00:59:58.940] on yes and here's why
[01:00:03.119] the the technology that we faced was far
[01:00:06.119] superior than anything that we had
[01:00:08.040] and you could put that anywhere if you
[01:00:10.319] if you had one you captured one you
[01:00:12.780] reverse engineered it you got it to work
[01:00:14.339] you're talking something that can go
[01:00:16.740] into space go someplace drop down in a
[01:00:19.140] matter of seconds do whatever it wants
[01:00:21.180] and leave
[01:00:22.319] and there's nothing we can do about it
[01:00:24.180] nothing
[01:00:25.740] okay either the other YouTube I would
[01:00:28.200] also like to add from commercial
[01:00:29.819] Aviation and Military Aviation
[01:00:31.559] perspective we deal with uncertainty in
[01:00:33.420] our operating space as a matter of of
[01:00:35.520] our protection professional actions
[01:00:37.380] identifying friend from foe is very
[01:00:39.599] important to us and so when we have
[01:00:42.299] unidentified targets and we continue to
[01:00:44.460] ignore those due to a stigma or fear of
[01:00:46.380] what it could be that's an opening that
[01:00:48.180] our adversaries can take advantage of
[01:00:49.619] what what uh steps should we take in to
[01:00:51.839] better understand and respond to UAP
[01:00:53.460] Encounters in the interest of National
[01:00:55.380] Security
[01:00:56.760] there needs to be a location where this
[01:00:58.380] information is centralized for
[01:00:59.880] processing and there needs to be a
[01:01:01.200] two-way communication Loop so the
[01:01:02.640] operators on the front end have a
[01:01:04.319] feedback and can can get best practices
[01:01:06.960] on how to process information what to do
[01:01:09.359] and to ensure that they they their
[01:01:11.940] reporting is being listened to right now
[01:01:13.920] there's not a lot of back and forth Mr
[01:01:15.780] gresh in your complaint to the
[01:01:17.520] intelligence Community inspector you
[01:01:19.680] Inspector General you claim that you
[01:01:21.359] believe information is being hidden what
[01:01:23.700] kind of information do you think was
[01:01:25.020] hidden and do you think it should remain
[01:01:26.339] hidden
[01:01:27.599] yes I can speak to that very briefly in
[01:01:29.460] unclassified manner as you know the
[01:01:30.960] preponderance of my complaint was
[01:01:32.220] classified to the intelligence
[01:01:33.480] communities uh both uh material
[01:01:36.480] acquisition and exploitation activity
[01:01:39.660] um also baselining the uaps but not
[01:01:42.359] sharing it with you know intelligence
[01:01:44.460] professionals that are actually doing
[01:01:45.720] step briefs to Pilots uh that that kind
[01:01:48.420] of information yeah yeah okay thank you
[01:01:50.940] very much now we'll go to Mr Garcia
[01:01:53.520] thank you um again thank you all for for
[01:01:55.920] your service and for testifying today I
[01:01:57.839] want to just uh talk about the uaps it
[01:02:00.119] relates to what we're seeing in the
[01:02:01.740] Pilot's interaction with uaps
[01:02:03.240] particularly Mr Graves one of the
[01:02:04.799] concerns that for members of this
[01:02:06.420] committee is this idea that Pilots
[01:02:08.280] there's no system to actually report
[01:02:09.960] uaps and the stigma around pilots and so
[01:02:12.900] could you can you just briefly you
[01:02:15.180] mentioned that they're you working with
[01:02:16.260] 30 Pilots right now that have had
[01:02:17.640] encounters with uaps but you've also I
[01:02:20.400] believe I'm discussed and know of many
[01:02:23.220] more pilots this is just those that
[01:02:24.720] you're currently working with is that
[01:02:25.920] correct can you expand on that certainly
[01:02:27.780] I'll break that down in two ways first
[01:02:29.819] when we were first experiencing these
[01:02:32.040] objects off the Eastern Seaboard in the
[01:02:33.599] 2014 to 2015 time period anyone that had
[01:02:37.020] upgraded their radar systems were seeing
[01:02:39.299] these objects so there was a large
[01:02:40.559] number of my colleagues that were
[01:02:42.420] detecting these objects off the Eastern
[01:02:43.859] Seaboard they were further correlating
[01:02:46.079] that information with the other onboard
[01:02:47.520] centers and many of them also had their
[01:02:49.440] own uh eye sightings as well of these
[01:02:52.079] objects now that was our personal first
[01:02:54.540] firsthand experience at the time since
[01:02:57.240] then as I've engaged this topic others
[01:02:59.760] have reached out to me that share their
[01:03:01.020] experiences both on the military side as
[01:03:03.299] well as a commercial Aviation side on
[01:03:05.700] the military Aviation side veterans that
[01:03:07.980] have recently got out have shared their
[01:03:09.359] stories and have expressed how the
[01:03:10.799] objects we were seeing in 2014 2015
[01:03:13.640] continued all the way to 2019 2020 and
[01:03:16.740] Beyond and so it became a generational
[01:03:18.780] issue for Naval aviators on the Eastern
[01:03:20.880] Seaboard this was something we are
[01:03:22.680] briefing to new students this is
[01:03:24.780] something that was included in the
[01:03:25.920] notice to Airmen to ensure that there
[01:03:28.020] was no uh accidents and now with
[01:03:31.920] commercial aviators they are reaching
[01:03:33.299] out because they're having somewhat
[01:03:34.559] similar experiences as our military
[01:03:36.000] brothers and sisters but they do not
[01:03:37.980] have any reporting system that they can
[01:03:40.020] send this to and let me just add both to
[01:03:42.540] to Mr fravor as well as Mr Graves not
[01:03:46.440] having this system for for reporting
[01:03:48.359] would you both degree that is harmful to
[01:03:51.240] not just our national security interests
[01:03:52.740] but to understand this phenomenon of
[01:03:54.480] what's happening with uaps
[01:03:56.579] I think it's it's uh it's a it's
[01:03:59.700] actually it's a travesty that we don't
[01:04:01.619] have a system to correlate this and
[01:04:03.960] actually investigate you know so if you
[01:04:05.940] took the East Coast you know there's
[01:04:07.200] there's there's Coastal Radars out there
[01:04:08.819] that monitor our air defense
[01:04:10.260] identification zone so out to 200 miles
[01:04:12.980] uh they can track these you know so when
[01:04:15.420] you see them they could actually go and
[01:04:16.740] pull that data and get maneuvering and
[01:04:18.780] instead of just having the airplanes
[01:04:20.640] there's other data sources out there and
[01:04:22.559] I've talked to other government
[01:04:23.280] officials on this so you need a
[01:04:24.960] centrally located repository that these
[01:04:26.819] reports go to so if you just stuck it in
[01:04:28.920] dod you wouldn't get anything out of the
[01:04:30.540] intelligence committee because they have
[01:04:32.339] a tendency not to talk but if you had a
[01:04:34.140] central location where these reports
[01:04:35.339] would come in not just military but also
[01:04:36.900] commercial Aviation because there's a
[01:04:38.339] lot of that going on especially if you
[01:04:39.599] talk to anyone that flies from here to
[01:04:41.099] Hawaii over the Pacific they see odd
[01:04:43.260] lights
[01:04:43.920] so I think you need to develop something
[01:04:47.040] that allows you a central point to
[01:04:48.780] collect the data in order to investigate
[01:04:50.640] Mr Graves
[01:04:52.680] I would concur with everything Mr fravor
[01:04:54.540] said I'll continue to say that the
[01:04:56.760] commercial pilots that have reached out
[01:04:58.020] to me through Americans for safe
[01:04:59.040] Aerospace are doing so because they
[01:05:00.720] don't feel there's another way for them
[01:05:01.920] to report their safety issue and I think
[01:05:03.599] one of the clear outcomes of this
[01:05:05.099] hearing already is that there has to be
[01:05:07.440] a safe and transparent reporting process
[01:05:09.900] for Pilots both on the commercial side
[01:05:11.819] and the military side to be able to
[01:05:13.619] report uaps in a way that's also
[01:05:15.180] transparent but also understands the
[01:05:17.819] scope of our of our national security
[01:05:19.319] interests and what may be classified or
[01:05:22.140] not but I think there has to be some
[01:05:23.460] sort of system and so that's something
[01:05:24.599] that I hope can be an outcome that this
[01:05:26.339] committee can can work on uh is there
[01:05:29.520] anything else for just for the two of
[01:05:30.660] you briefly Beyond this reporting system
[01:05:32.460] that you think that we can do as a
[01:05:33.900] government to encourage and facilitate
[01:05:35.520] more civilian reporting
[01:05:37.380] I'm just doing it right now okay great I
[01:05:39.599] think this hearing is is going to show
[01:05:41.220] the American people that their
[01:05:42.540] government takes this topic seriously
[01:05:43.859] and how
[01:05:44.940] and how about civilians it may not be
[01:05:46.380] Pilots what kind of process could be in
[01:05:48.359] place for civilians who are not pilots
[01:05:50.099] who may have UAP encounters do either of
[01:05:52.500] you have any suggestions that could
[01:05:53.760] facilitate that my recommendations would
[01:05:56.160] make would be to make that a sense a
[01:05:58.380] sensor Centric operation in order to
[01:06:00.599] make it as objective as possible okay
[01:06:02.640] sir Mr favor no I agree with Mr Graves
[01:06:05.339] on that okay
[01:06:07.200] um just just briefly I also just want to
[01:06:10.020] um note for particularly for the two
[01:06:11.640] pilots I have a question for Mr grush
[01:06:12.960] one of the things that I found
[01:06:14.040] fascinating in our discussion Mr Graves
[01:06:15.420] last night as well is that you've both
[01:06:16.980] described
[01:06:18.359] um uaps and formations and the way they
[01:06:21.180] have they they they are observed in
[01:06:23.880] space or or in our air and the way that
[01:06:26.579] they move essentially
[01:06:28.680] um ways in which current technology or
[01:06:30.480] aircraft that we know of are unable to
[01:06:32.460] actually function or move and so will
[01:06:34.200] you just for the public record again
[01:06:35.579] once once again
[01:06:37.319] um just uh briefly just either describe
[01:06:41.460] or note that aircraft that are being
[01:06:43.740] witnessed particularly by the 30 folks
[01:06:45.359] that you're working with are essentially
[01:06:46.980] outside the scope of anything that we
[01:06:48.839] know of today in the technology we have
[01:06:49.980] today Mr graves Mr favor
[01:06:52.020] yes the objects that are being seen by
[01:06:54.480] commercial pilots are performing
[01:06:56.339] Maneuvers that are unexplainable due to
[01:06:58.680] our current understanding of our
[01:06:59.880] technology and our capabilities as a
[01:07:01.500] country and that applies for the
[01:07:03.119] military as well Mr Mr
[01:07:05.460] yeah I concur with that we have nothing
[01:07:07.140] that can stop in midair and go the other
[01:07:08.940] direction nor do we have anything that
[01:07:10.680] can like in our situation come down from
[01:07:12.780] space hang out for three hours and go
[01:07:14.339] back up thank you my last question and
[01:07:15.839] so and sometimes you I know that some
[01:07:17.339] you have also said some of these answers
[01:07:19.440] in the past we're trying to get them on
[01:07:20.640] the public record as well which is
[01:07:21.900] really important Mr gresh finally do you
[01:07:23.819] believe that our government is in
[01:07:24.900] possession of uaps
[01:07:26.720] absolutely based on interviewing uh over
[01:07:29.579] 40 Witnesses over four years and and
[01:07:31.619] where
[01:07:33.000] I know the exact locations and those
[01:07:35.460] locations were provided to the Inspector
[01:07:37.440] General and some of which to the
[01:07:39.299] intelligence committees I actually had
[01:07:40.920] the people with the first-hand knowledge
[01:07:43.920] um provide a protected disclosure to the
[01:07:45.480] Inspector General thank you and Mr
[01:07:47.039] chairman I would just say that I think
[01:07:48.180] that these questions are important
[01:07:49.740] questions and I look forward to being
[01:07:51.900] involved in the process to get those
[01:07:53.099] answered I know there'll be a lot of
[01:07:54.119] questions from the committee members so
[01:07:55.140] I yield back
[01:07:56.400] thank you we'll go to Mr birchard
[01:07:58.079] himself
[01:07:59.460] thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr
[01:08:01.680] Garcia I would like to have you on the
[01:08:03.359] my legislation to do just that on the on
[01:08:06.000] the reporting
[01:08:07.380] um and we'll get together on that maybe
[01:08:09.480] it could be my co-sponsor on that that'd
[01:08:11.460] be really cool thank you for those great
[01:08:13.380] questions
[01:08:15.119] um
[01:08:16.799] Mr Graves again I'd like to know how do
[01:08:20.940] you know that these were not our
[01:08:22.440] aircraft
[01:08:24.299] some of the behaviors that we saw in a
[01:08:26.160] working area we would see these objects
[01:08:28.640] being at 0.0 Mach that's zero airspeed
[01:08:32.940] over certain pieces of the ground so
[01:08:35.279] what that means just like a river if you
[01:08:36.839] throw a bobber in it's going to float
[01:08:38.160] Downstream these objects were staying
[01:08:40.199] completely stationary and category 4
[01:08:42.060] hurricane winds these same objects would
[01:08:44.400] then accelerate to supersonic speeds 1.1
[01:08:46.980] 1.2 Mach and they would do so in very
[01:08:49.920] erratic and quick behaviors that we
[01:08:51.960] don't I don't have an explanation for
[01:08:53.460] okay have you spoken to Commercial and
[01:08:56.520] Military Pilots
[01:08:58.040] that have seen these off of our East
[01:09:00.299] Coast I have okay
[01:09:03.960] um
[01:09:05.460] Mr Fiverr
[01:09:07.199] I noticed that um in the Tic Tac video
[01:09:11.060] uh it's Tic Tac like the candy not Tick
[01:09:14.940] Tock like the Chinese Communist uh app
[01:09:18.179] that's correct yes sir I just want to
[01:09:19.739] make that because my daughter uh
[01:09:22.500] corrected me on that and called me a
[01:09:24.299] boomer and say Boomer and I said no baby
[01:09:26.699] it's Tic Tac like the candy you're gonna
[01:09:28.380] have to just look it up and um but now I
[01:09:31.080] would love to like to say today is a is
[01:09:32.880] a day of many first it's a miracle that
[01:09:35.580] we're having this this meeting and it's
[01:09:37.859] also a miracle that my wife has put up
[01:09:40.140] with me for nine years today today is my
[01:09:42.239] anniversary so I want to tell my wife
[01:09:43.859] happy anniversary and that I love her
[01:09:45.420] very much
[01:09:46.920] um
[01:09:47.640] as she likes to say this nine years have
[01:09:49.920] been the best two years of her life so
[01:09:51.839] thank you
[01:09:54.239] um Mr favor
[01:09:56.520] what what astonished you the most about
[01:09:59.460] the the flight capabilities of these Tic
[01:10:02.040] Tac very briefly
[01:10:03.900] uh the performance
[01:10:05.940] absolute performance it was and you're
[01:10:08.280] you're not aware of any other objects
[01:10:10.080] that anybody in the world has in this
[01:10:12.239] world that has those capabilities no I
[01:10:15.060] think it's far beyond actually our
[01:10:16.739] Material Science that we currently
[01:10:18.000] possess
[01:10:20.040] are you aware of any other
[01:10:21.480] reconnaissance platforms that attract or
[01:10:23.400] recorded the Tic Tacs Maneuvers maybe
[01:10:25.199] the NORAD system or any of the others I
[01:10:27.480] am not okay Mr grosh
[01:10:30.840] thank you for being here brother thank
[01:10:33.060] you all very much
[01:10:34.560] um have you faced any retaliation or
[01:10:36.659] arrivals for any of your testimony or
[01:10:39.179] anything
[01:10:40.320] on these lines yeah uh I have to be
[01:10:43.500] careful what I say in detail because
[01:10:45.060] there is an open uh whistleblower
[01:10:47.100] reprisal investigation on my behalf and
[01:10:49.320] I don't want to compromise that
[01:10:51.000] investigation by providing anything that
[01:10:53.280] may uh
[01:10:54.540] help provide somebody information but it
[01:10:57.960] was very brutal and very unfortunate
[01:11:00.719] some of the tactics they used to hurt me
[01:11:04.020] both professionally and and personally
[01:11:05.880] to be quite Frank yeah it's very
[01:11:07.980] unfortunate as they say when you're over
[01:11:09.659] the target that's when they do the most
[01:11:11.480] firing at you do you have any personal
[01:11:13.320] knowledge of people who've been harmed
[01:11:14.940] or injured in efforts to cover up or
[01:11:17.219] conceal these extraterrestrial
[01:11:18.659] technology yes
[01:11:22.800] personally have you heard anyone been
[01:11:25.679] murdered that you would think that you
[01:11:27.719] know of or have heard of I guess I have
[01:11:29.820] to be careful asking that question I
[01:11:31.920] directed people with that knowledge to
[01:11:33.540] the appropriate authorities maybe in a
[01:11:35.699] um if we could get it get in a
[01:11:38.540] confidential area skiff we could talk
[01:11:41.280] about that but unfortunately
[01:11:44.219] um we were denied access to the skiff
[01:11:47.219] and that's very unfortunate in this in
[01:11:49.380] this scenario
[01:11:51.420] um
[01:11:53.520] Mr favor
[01:11:55.199] do you believe that you witnessed an
[01:11:57.360] additional object under the water in
[01:11:59.400] relation to your encounter
[01:12:01.679] I will say we did not see an object
[01:12:03.420] there was something there to cause the
[01:12:04.800] white water and when we turned around it
[01:12:06.360] was gone so there was something there
[01:12:07.620] that obviously moved
[01:12:09.179] okay it was it was not the same object
[01:12:11.340] though that you were you were looking at
[01:12:12.960] correct no we actually joke that the Tic
[01:12:15.060] Tac was communicating with something
[01:12:16.860] when we came back and because the White
[01:12:19.260] Water disappeared
[01:12:20.699] uh we were in another instance we're
[01:12:23.400] told about the capabilities of a jamming
[01:12:26.340] during viewing of some when there were
[01:12:28.980] some people chasing some of these
[01:12:30.480] objects did you experience any of that
[01:12:32.340] jamming or interrupting your radar or
[01:12:34.199] weapon system my crew that launched
[01:12:36.480] after we landed experienced significant
[01:12:38.520] jamming to the apg-73 radar which was
[01:12:40.860] what we had on board which is a
[01:12:42.120] mechanically scanned very high-end
[01:12:43.860] system prior to the apg-79 and yes it
[01:12:47.340] did pretty much everything you could do
[01:12:48.719] range velocity aspect and then it hit
[01:12:52.320] the lock and the targeting pod is
[01:12:53.580] passive that's what we were able to get
[01:12:54.840] the video on I'm about to run out of
[01:12:57.060] time but um are you aware of any of our
[01:12:58.739] enemies that have that capability
[01:13:01.140] no okay I would also like to note for
[01:13:04.440] the record that um like George Knapp
[01:13:06.840] breaking Area 51 he's the reason I knew
[01:13:09.480] about that and the reason I know about
[01:13:10.500] the Tic Tacs is uh is Leslie Kane from
[01:13:14.580] New York Times article and I would
[01:13:15.960] encourage everybody to read that
[01:13:18.420] thank you Mr chairman yield back no time
[01:13:20.760] very good Mr Raskin
[01:13:24.000] thank you Mr chairman um Mr Graves
[01:13:27.000] um you reported UAP encounters
[01:13:30.360] um during training flights I think and
[01:13:34.020] have since come forward to warn the
[01:13:35.580] Pentagon that these encounters may be
[01:13:39.239] putting Pilots at risk
[01:13:42.420] um
[01:13:43.860] my first question is
[01:13:46.140] um you've identified these as taking
[01:13:48.060] place on the east coast is it just on
[01:13:50.040] the East Coast where these encounters uh
[01:13:52.800] have been reported no since the events
[01:13:56.520] initially occurred I've learned that the
[01:13:58.199] objects have been detected essentially
[01:14:00.060] where uh all operations Navy operations
[01:14:02.760] are being conducted across the world and
[01:14:05.040] that's from uh the all domain anomaly
[01:14:07.440] resolutions office reporting
[01:14:09.540] all right can you describe your
[01:14:11.040] experience after you decided to come
[01:14:12.540] forward and
[01:14:14.460] um go public with your um experience
[01:14:17.640] certainly like many others in 2017 I saw
[01:14:21.120] the New York Times article come out as
[01:14:23.460] well and for me it was it was special
[01:14:26.040] because I recognized the voices on the
[01:14:27.719] video I recognized the video itself I
[01:14:30.420] had seen it when it was taken I seen it
[01:14:32.159] when it was debriefed and so that was
[01:14:35.460] kind of shook me because I realized that
[01:14:37.140] this problem was still ongoing and so I
[01:14:39.179] reached out to colleagues back on the
[01:14:40.500] east coast and realized that this was
[01:14:42.420] still a safety risk that they were
[01:14:43.739] dealing with that they had essentially
[01:14:45.000] hit a wall with how they could move
[01:14:46.560] forward on this conversation it was at
[01:14:48.719] that point when I decided to try to move
[01:14:50.280] the conversation forward myself
[01:14:52.980] um are there common characteristics to
[01:14:55.500] the uaps that have been cited by
[01:14:57.659] different pilots and can you describe
[01:14:59.520] what the convergence of descriptions is
[01:15:02.100] certainly we were primarily seeing dark
[01:15:05.040] gray or black cubes inside of a clear
[01:15:06.900] sphere I'm sorry dark gray or black
[01:15:09.300] cubes yes inside of a clear sphere where
[01:15:12.420] the Apex or tips of the cube were
[01:15:14.280] touching the inside of that sphere and
[01:15:16.199] that was primarily what was being
[01:15:17.520] reported when we were able to gain a
[01:15:19.380] visual tally of these objects and that
[01:15:21.300] occurred over almost eight years and as
[01:15:23.400] far as I know it's still occurred
[01:15:25.850] [Music]
[01:15:26.219] um
[01:15:27.780] so I take it that you're arguing what we
[01:15:31.020] need is real transparency in a reporting
[01:15:33.179] system so we can get some clarity on
[01:15:35.580] what's going on out there because there
[01:15:37.860] are many pilots in your situation
[01:15:40.620] um but we should have a way of
[01:15:43.320] developing assist systematic inventory
[01:15:45.719] of all of such encounters is that right
[01:15:47.699] yes and I think we need both
[01:15:49.199] transparency and the reporting we have
[01:15:51.000] the reporting but we need to make sure
[01:15:52.320] that information can be promulgated to
[01:15:54.000] commercial Aviation as well as the rest
[01:15:55.800] of the populace
[01:15:57.420] um Mr Crush what about you what was your
[01:15:59.460] experience after you came forward
[01:16:02.699] well uh it's only been about two months
[01:16:05.040] or so so I guess my experience has been
[01:16:07.199] overwhelming support from uh former
[01:16:09.719] colleagues of mine that have you know
[01:16:11.100] privately messaged me and and I do
[01:16:13.140] appreciate that uh but I I do have
[01:16:16.140] knowledge of um
[01:16:18.179] active planned uh reprisal activity
[01:16:20.520] against myself and other colleagues and
[01:16:22.140] it's very very upsetting to me coming
[01:16:24.420] from where
[01:16:25.980] uh certain senior leadership at previous
[01:16:28.739] agencies I was associated with
[01:16:31.140] and that's all I'll say publicly but I
[01:16:32.940] can provide more details in a closed
[01:16:34.560] environment okay well I I hope you
[01:16:37.140] understand that
[01:16:38.760] um there would be bipartisan rejection
[01:16:41.280] of any attempt uh to vilify demonize or
[01:16:45.420] engage in other reprisals against our
[01:16:47.760] Witnesses and people who are telling the
[01:16:50.400] truth from their perspective yeah there
[01:16:52.380] were certain colleagues of mine that
[01:16:53.460] were brutally administratively attacked
[01:16:55.440] and it you know actually makes me very
[01:16:56.940] upset as a leader to see that happen to
[01:17:00.000] other co-workers and actually superiors
[01:17:02.219] of mine over the last three years how do
[01:17:04.199] you account for that response that seems
[01:17:06.300] like a bizarre response I called
[01:17:08.640] administrative terrorism that's their
[01:17:10.440] their quiver their tool in the toolbox
[01:17:12.360] to silence people especially you know
[01:17:15.840] the career government service cares
[01:17:17.760] about the career cares about their
[01:17:19.140] clearance uh their reputation to climb
[01:17:21.480] the ladder and when you threaten that uh
[01:17:24.480] flow career path a lot of people back
[01:17:27.179] off
[01:17:28.140] but I'm here to represent those people
[01:17:30.179] so
[01:17:32.460] um Mr fravor what about you what has
[01:17:36.000] your experience been since you've come
[01:17:38.340] forward with your perspective on this
[01:17:40.140] actually I've been treated very well and
[01:17:42.420] the six people that were involved myself
[01:17:44.280] included
[01:17:45.540] all of them have or will be retiring
[01:17:47.520] from the military as 0506s and all my
[01:17:50.760] friends that are very senior three and
[01:17:52.800] four stars I've talked to them they they
[01:17:55.140] believe they understand there's a
[01:17:56.940] problem but no I was actually treated
[01:17:58.380] really well and and what is your general
[01:18:01.860] interpretation
[01:18:04.440] um of these phenomena or what is your
[01:18:08.580] current thinking of trying to make sense
[01:18:10.800] of them well I'll say you know I'm not
[01:18:13.500] like a UFO fanatic it's not it's not me
[01:18:16.020] but I will tell you that what we saw
[01:18:19.320] with four sets of eyes over a five
[01:18:22.199] minute period
[01:18:23.580] still there's nothing we have nothing
[01:18:25.739] close to it it was it was amazing to see
[01:18:27.840] I told my buddy I wanted to fly it but
[01:18:29.699] yeah it's just an incredible technology
[01:18:32.580] all right Mr chairman thank you very
[01:18:34.260] much I'll yield back to you
[01:18:36.900] uh thanks and Miss Luna
[01:18:40.620] Mr grush in speaking to you yesterday
[01:18:44.940] um I just wanted to follow up on
[01:18:46.699] representative raskin's questions
[01:18:50.159] in the last couple of years have you had
[01:18:52.739] incidences that have caused you to be in
[01:18:55.440] fear for your life for addressing these
[01:18:57.600] issues
[01:18:58.620] yes personally
[01:19:00.239] yeah I just want everyone to note that
[01:19:02.040] he's coming forward in fear of his life
[01:19:04.440] to put in perspective if they were
[01:19:06.600] really not scared about this information
[01:19:08.219] coming out why would someone be
[01:19:09.480] intimidated like that
[01:19:11.760] um to your knowledge our nhis working
[01:19:14.520] with adversarial foreign governments in
[01:19:16.620] either technology exchange programs or
[01:19:18.900] back engineering programs I don't have
[01:19:21.179] data on that I'm not sure have you heard
[01:19:23.580] or you had people come forward to
[01:19:25.440] present that evidence
[01:19:27.179] not that particular evidence that you
[01:19:29.280] just espoused okay on the 19th of April
[01:19:32.159] Dr Kirkpatrick head of Arrow had said
[01:19:35.159] that he did not find any evidence of
[01:19:36.540] uaps you also stated that you had in
[01:19:39.239] your interview that you had briefed him
[01:19:40.679] on information that you are uncovering
[01:19:42.300] but that he did not follow up with you
[01:19:44.400] were the items that you divulged to him
[01:19:46.860] pertin to National Security
[01:19:49.199] yes him and I had a classified
[01:19:51.780] conversation in April 2022 before he
[01:19:54.060] took over arrow in the July to 2022 and
[01:19:58.679] I provided him some concerns I had
[01:20:01.080] do you know why he might not have fallen
[01:20:02.640] up with you
[01:20:04.500] uh um unfortunately I cannot read his
[01:20:06.780] mind I wish she did I was I was happy to
[01:20:09.780] give Sage counsel to him on where to
[01:20:12.060] look when he took the the Helm of Arrow
[01:20:14.640] okay and then my last question for you
[01:20:16.920] before I moved to Mr Graves is um you
[01:20:19.679] received prior approval from the defense
[01:20:21.300] department to speak on certain issues
[01:20:22.739] correct
[01:20:23.580] correct through uh dobster DOD
[01:20:25.560] pre-publication and Security review and
[01:20:27.600] I just want to remind the public uh
[01:20:29.940] they're just looking from a security
[01:20:31.320] perspective uh these are my own personal
[01:20:33.840] views and opinions uh not the
[01:20:35.760] Departments okay I'm asking that mainly
[01:20:38.340] because I think that there are many
[01:20:39.840] people that would like to discredit you
[01:20:41.400] so it does bring a certain amount of
[01:20:43.800] credibility to your testimony I'm
[01:20:45.480] required by law to do that as a Former
[01:20:46.920] Intelligence officer or I go to jail for
[01:20:49.380] revealing classified information yeah we
[01:20:50.699] don't want you to go to jail
[01:20:52.040] my next question would actually be for
[01:20:55.199] Mr Graves can you please explain to me
[01:20:58.500] in detail the event that occurred at
[01:21:01.020] Vandenberg Air Force Base
[01:21:03.659] certainly
[01:21:05.159] uh in the 2003 time frame a large group
[01:21:09.360] of Boeing contractors were operating
[01:21:10.980] near one of the launch facilities at
[01:21:12.540] Vandenberg Air Force Base when they
[01:21:14.100] observed a very large 100 yard sided uh
[01:21:18.659] Red Square uh approached the base from
[01:21:22.320] the ocean and hover at low altitude over
[01:21:24.600] one of the launch facilities
[01:21:26.179] this object remained for about 45
[01:21:28.980] seconds or so before darting off over
[01:21:31.020] the mountains
[01:21:32.760] um there was a similar event within 24
[01:21:34.440] hours later in the evening this was a
[01:21:36.540] morning event I believe 8 45 in the
[01:21:39.420] morning later in the evening post sunset
[01:21:41.840] there were reports of other sightings on
[01:21:44.760] base including some aggressive behaviors
[01:21:46.739] these objects were approaching some of
[01:21:48.840] the security guards at rapid speeds
[01:21:50.460] before darting off and this is
[01:21:52.920] information that was received through
[01:21:54.239] one of the witnesses that have
[01:21:56.400] approached me at Americans for safe
[01:21:57.900] Aerospace was this documented in any
[01:22:00.420] official form whether it was a police
[01:22:01.920] blotter yes they had official
[01:22:04.260] documentation and records from the event
[01:22:05.820] that the witness held over the years and
[01:22:08.940] I'm not going to ask you to do it right
[01:22:09.960] now for time reasons but you would be
[01:22:11.460] able to sketch what was when it's
[01:22:13.560] correct and you've have you seen that
[01:22:14.880] before on any other equipment and or
[01:22:16.739] during your flight time I have not seen
[01:22:18.480] what they have described this object was
[01:22:20.880] estimated to be almost the size of a
[01:22:22.380] football field and I have not seen
[01:22:24.239] anything personally that large okay and
[01:22:26.580] then another question on follow-up
[01:22:28.260] referencing the gimbal video go fast
[01:22:30.239] incident can you just clarify because to
[01:22:32.520] our understanding the footage was
[01:22:34.320] actually cut off at a certain point but
[01:22:35.880] what happens at the end of that video
[01:22:37.080] just for those Americans specifically
[01:22:39.060] there that are wanting to know about the
[01:22:40.500] rest of that footage certainly there was
[01:22:42.480] some uncertainty or um instability with
[01:22:45.120] the object it seemed to rock a bit and
[01:22:47.219] that's the last uh last is you know the
[01:22:49.739] video much of the data that I would
[01:22:51.540] recommend be analyzed would consist of
[01:22:53.400] radar data that would provide precise
[01:22:56.280] kinematics on the object as well as the
[01:22:58.020] fleet of objects that were operating
[01:22:59.219] nearby okay and follow-up in regards to
[01:23:01.560] the reporting procedures that Mr Garcia
[01:23:03.659] had addressed on as well as
[01:23:04.739] representative burchett with the FAA to
[01:23:07.800] your understanding Pilots that are
[01:23:09.420] seeing this commercial airline pilots
[01:23:11.040] are they receiving cease and desist
[01:23:13.380] letters from corporations for coming
[01:23:15.000] forward with information in regards to
[01:23:17.100] safety for potential airline passengers
[01:23:19.800] I have been made privy to conversations
[01:23:21.900] with commercial aviators who have
[01:23:23.820] received seasoned assist orders so the
[01:23:25.920] American public should know that
[01:23:27.179] corporations are putting their own
[01:23:29.040] reputations on the basic not the line
[01:23:31.920] but ahead of the safety of the American
[01:23:34.080] people and I think would you agree with
[01:23:35.880] that statement appears so okay
[01:23:38.640] um I guess this would be my last I'm out
[01:23:41.640] of time I yield
[01:23:44.340] I'll be back
[01:23:47.100] Mr maskowitz thank you Mr chairman uh
[01:23:50.699] Gentlemen let's talk about the laws of
[01:23:52.320] physics for a second
[01:23:54.659] uh Mr Graves and in Commander favor I
[01:23:57.300] heard you talk about speed
[01:23:59.040] when those objects broke the sound
[01:24:03.060] barrier did they make a sonic boom
[01:24:06.300] I was in a jet you can't hear anything
[01:24:08.219] it's kind of loud in there
[01:24:10.199] yeah you're not able to actually
[01:24:11.940] personally tell within the vehicle I
[01:24:13.920] will say the objects that we were seeing
[01:24:15.480] they were spherical and they were
[01:24:17.040] observed up the Mach 2 which is a very
[01:24:19.140] in non-aerodynamic shape what about
[01:24:21.600] g-forces let's talk about g-forces of
[01:24:23.640] those Vehicles could a human survive
[01:24:25.739] those g-forces with known technology
[01:24:27.780] today no no not for the acceleration
[01:24:30.179] rates that we observed okay what about
[01:24:33.300] what they look like how close did you
[01:24:34.920] get did you see a seam or a rivet or a
[01:24:38.460] section and what I mean is obviously the
[01:24:40.560] Jets you're flying have all those things
[01:24:42.540] did these objects have those
[01:24:45.120] do you want to go ride I didn't have I
[01:24:46.920] didn't have the detail to be able to
[01:24:48.000] tell that
[01:24:49.920] Tic Tac which people say that's pretty
[01:24:51.900] far but it's in air ings that's actually
[01:24:53.640] relatively close no it was perfectly
[01:24:55.739] white smooth no windows although when we
[01:24:58.380] did take the original FLIR video that is
[01:25:01.020] out there when you put it on a big
[01:25:02.699] screen it actually had two little
[01:25:03.900] objects that came out of the bottom of
[01:25:05.340] it but other than that no no windows no
[01:25:08.280] seams no nothing Mr garage as a result
[01:25:10.500] of your previous government work have
[01:25:12.120] you met with people with direct
[01:25:13.800] knowledge or have direct knowledge
[01:25:15.540] yourself of non-human origin craft
[01:25:18.420] yes I personally interviewed those
[01:25:19.920] individuals Mr grush as a result of your
[01:25:22.679] previous government work have you met
[01:25:24.120] with people with direct knowledge or
[01:25:25.679] have direct knowledge yourself about ATS
[01:25:28.380] Advanced Technologies that the US
[01:25:29.880] government has
[01:25:31.620] uh based on conventional Advanced Tech I
[01:25:35.699] was briefed to the preponderance of the
[01:25:38.880] defense Department's both space and
[01:25:40.560] Aerospace compartment of programs yeah
[01:25:42.780] do you have knowledge or do you have
[01:25:44.699] reason to believe that there are
[01:25:45.840] programs in the advanced Tech space that
[01:25:48.420] are unsanctioned
[01:25:50.400] uh yes I do okay yeah and and when you
[01:25:53.159] say that they're above congressional
[01:25:54.780] oversight what do you mean
[01:25:57.300] a complicated question uh so there's you
[01:26:01.440] know some I would call it abuse here so
[01:26:03.420] Congressional oversight of conventional
[01:26:05.820] special access programs so I'll use
[01:26:08.219] title 10 so DOD as an example right so
[01:26:10.739] 10 U.S code section 119 discusses
[01:26:13.500] congressional oversight of saps
[01:26:15.080] discusses uh the the depth sect def's
[01:26:17.639] ability to waive Congressional reporting
[01:26:20.159] however the gang of eight is at least
[01:26:22.020] supposed to be notified if a you know
[01:26:23.820] waived or wave bigoted unacknowledged
[01:26:25.800] sap is created and that's Public Law
[01:26:28.199] well so that how does I mean I don't
[01:26:29.820] want to cut you off but how does a
[01:26:31.020] program like that get funded
[01:26:33.600] I will give you generalities I can get
[01:26:35.820] very specific in a closed session uh but
[01:26:38.219] uh misappropriation of funds and uh does
[01:26:41.340] that mean does that mean that there is
[01:26:43.440] money in the budget that is said to go
[01:26:45.179] to a program but it doesn't and it goes
[01:26:46.860] to something else yes I have specific
[01:26:48.120] knowledge of that yep do you think U.S
[01:26:49.800] corporations are over over charging for
[01:26:52.920] certain Tech they're selling to the US
[01:26:54.540] government and that additional money is
[01:26:56.100] going to programs correct through
[01:26:57.960] something called irad okay
[01:27:00.900] um
[01:27:02.280] satellite imagery let's talk about
[01:27:04.560] satellite imagery we have satellites all
[01:27:06.540] over the place some that we're aware of
[01:27:08.580] and many that we're not aware of right
[01:27:10.860] we're taking pictures of everything at
[01:27:13.739] every point in second uh Mr grush are
[01:27:16.199] you aware do you have direct knowledge
[01:27:17.820] we've talked to people direct knowledge
[01:27:19.320] that there are satellite imagery of
[01:27:22.080] these events
[01:27:23.340] that was one of my primary tasks at NGA
[01:27:25.620] since we uh process exploit and
[01:27:28.440] disseminate that kind of information
[01:27:29.960] I've seen multiple cases some of which
[01:27:32.580] to my understanding and of course I left
[01:27:34.320] NG in April so that's my information cut
[01:27:36.120] off date but I personally
[01:27:39.000] um reviewed both what we call Overhead
[01:27:41.520] collection and from other strategic and
[01:27:43.800] tactical platforms that were I could not
[01:27:46.679] even explain prosaically and I have a
[01:27:48.120] degree in physics by the way as well and
[01:27:50.159] I had I
[01:27:52.560] I'm aware that you guys have not seen
[01:27:54.179] these
[01:27:55.320] um reports unfortunately and I don't
[01:27:57.540] know why is do you have direct knowledge
[01:27:59.880] we had spoken people with direct
[01:28:01.620] knowledge that this imagery applies to
[01:28:04.440] crash sites crash crash imagery
[01:28:07.980] I can't discuss that in an open session
[01:28:10.500] okay
[01:28:13.199] uh do you have any information that the
[01:28:15.719] U.S government is involved in a
[01:28:17.520] disinformation campaign to deny the
[01:28:19.620] existence of certain uaps
[01:28:23.219] I can't go beyond what I've already
[01:28:24.840] stated publicly in my news Nation
[01:28:26.699] interview because it touches other
[01:28:28.380] sensitivities okay I'll yield the
[01:28:30.719] balance of my time back thank you Mr
[01:28:33.480] chairman
[01:28:38.760] Miss Fox
[01:28:40.679] thank you Mr chairman and I thank our
[01:28:42.960] Witnesses for being here today
[01:28:46.020] um Mr garush in your sworn testimony you
[01:28:50.340] state that the United States government
[01:28:51.900] has retrieved supposedly
[01:28:55.520] extraterrestrial spacecraft and other
[01:28:58.560] UAP related artifacts you go so far as
[01:29:02.580] to state that the U.S is in possession
[01:29:04.620] of quote
[01:29:06.500] non-human spacecraft end quote and that
[01:29:10.320] some of these artifacts have circulated
[01:29:12.239] with defense contractors
[01:29:15.060] several other former military and
[01:29:17.280] intelligence officials have come forward
[01:29:19.080] with similar allegations albeit and
[01:29:22.860] non-public settings
[01:29:24.659] however Dr Sean
[01:29:27.080] Kirkpatrick the director of aaro
[01:29:30.480] previously testified before Congress
[01:29:33.020] that there has been and I quote
[01:29:36.679] no credible evidence thus far of
[01:29:40.940] extraterrestrial activity or of
[01:29:44.760] quote off-world technology brought to
[01:29:49.260] the attention of the office to your
[01:29:52.139] knowledge is that statement correct
[01:29:56.400] it's not accurate I believe Dr
[01:29:59.219] kirpatrick
[01:30:00.560] mentioned he had about 30 individuals
[01:30:02.639] that have come to Arrow thus far a few
[01:30:04.920] of those individuals have also come to
[01:30:06.420] arrow that I also interviewed and I know
[01:30:08.760] what they provided Dr Kirkpatrick in
[01:30:10.560] their team okay I was able to evaluate
[01:30:13.320] okay information I need to go on sure
[01:30:16.199] but
[01:30:17.520] um
[01:30:18.300] my understanding that this
[01:30:21.360] his statement is accurate
[01:30:24.860] came from a direct quote and this
[01:30:28.199] contradiction is a perfect example of
[01:30:30.960] why we need to inject transparency into
[01:30:34.139] our government and for another example
[01:30:36.840] look no further than the pitiful
[01:30:38.699] response to the Chinese spy balloon
[01:30:41.659] debacle earlier this year
[01:30:44.460] you may remember the mass confusion that
[01:30:46.980] ensued when the balloon was first
[01:30:48.659] spotted over Montana four days after it
[01:30:51.540] first entered U.S airspace over Alaska
[01:30:54.659] the Biden administration's initial
[01:30:56.880] inability to address the object grew
[01:31:00.120] into a continuous series of
[01:31:02.219] embarrassments after news of the balloon
[01:31:04.739] reached the Main Street mainstream media
[01:31:07.560] we were assured that the balloon posed
[01:31:10.199] no threat to our security however after
[01:31:13.080] the balloon was allowed to Transit the
[01:31:15.239] entire continental United States fighter
[01:31:18.239] jets were scrambled off the coast of
[01:31:19.980] South Carolina to shoot it down
[01:31:22.500] this flip-flopping and obfuscation
[01:31:25.260] caused needless confusion fear and panic
[01:31:28.800] across the country
[01:31:30.239] It's My Hope Mr chairman that this sort
[01:31:33.239] of confusion will not be repeated
[01:31:36.000] we should investigate the extent to
[01:31:38.580] which elements of our government possess
[01:31:41.159] or do not possess information that is of
[01:31:45.540] critical value to the American people we
[01:31:48.780] owe it to the citizens of this nation to
[01:31:50.880] make sure that our government is
[01:31:52.380] transparent and accountable we must make
[01:31:56.100] sure that our government provides
[01:31:57.900] answers and Congress must do its duty to
[01:32:01.860] solicit those answers with that Mr
[01:32:04.920] chairman I yield back
[01:32:08.040] yeah Mr Frost
[01:32:10.800] thank you Mr chairman in 2022
[01:32:14.699] NASA announced that it was commissioning
[01:32:16.260] an independent study team to examine
[01:32:18.540] uaps the NASA team is comprised of
[01:32:21.000] scientists across different fields as
[01:32:23.340] well as former astronauts and pilots in
[01:32:26.400] May the independent study team held that
[01:32:28.500] its first public meeting which included
[01:32:31.080] the perspectives from NASA senior
[01:32:32.940] leaders as well as perspectives from the
[01:32:35.159] Department of Defense and intelligence
[01:32:36.780] agencies the NASA study team is also
[01:32:40.020] expected to release its first report
[01:32:41.699] pretty soon and I think it's safe to say
[01:32:43.920] that we all eagerly await its results Mr
[01:32:47.880] Graves how might NASA's research
[01:32:50.040] influence the commercial industry
[01:32:52.020] regarding safety and UAP I think NASA
[01:32:54.780] has a big role to play as far as
[01:32:56.159] commercial Aviation safety and it's one
[01:32:58.020] of their original charges as an
[01:32:59.880] organization one of the recommendations
[01:33:02.040] that have been put forward is to utilize
[01:33:03.900] their existing Aviation safety reporting
[01:33:05.820] system to serve as a short-term fill and
[01:33:08.460] trusted platform for Pilots that want to
[01:33:10.679] report on UAP it also has built-in
[01:33:13.139] analytics capability and is funded by
[01:33:15.300] Congress gotcha and also Mr graves are
[01:33:17.340] there any other industries that may be
[01:33:19.320] influenced by the NASA research on the
[01:33:21.239] uaps and and if so how so well I think
[01:33:24.659] there is a a large swath of commercial
[01:33:26.520] capabilities that could be brought to
[01:33:27.900] bear on this topic from space-based or
[01:33:29.940] ground-based sensor systems that are
[01:33:31.560] available open source or through
[01:33:33.000] commercial marketplaces and I think
[01:33:35.280] NASA's work as they work to identify and
[01:33:37.380] highlight specific parameters that can
[01:33:39.300] be found we can take that information
[01:33:40.560] and and
[01:33:42.120] promulgate this through the public
[01:33:43.560] sector so that we can have more open
[01:33:45.000] conversation about what we're seeing
[01:33:46.620] yeah you know in 2020 the Department of
[01:33:49.440] Defense released several videos of uaps
[01:33:52.620] um including Mr freyr's experience U.S
[01:33:55.800] Navy Pilots that recorded footage in
[01:33:58.500] 2021 the office of the Director of
[01:34:01.020] National Intelligence released a
[01:34:02.940] preliminary report on UAP events NASA
[01:34:05.820] administrator Bill Nelson stated that
[01:34:07.739] NASA would begin to investigate these
[01:34:09.840] events in fact I sit on science based
[01:34:12.780] and Technology committee and when we
[01:34:14.340] were doing a hearing with the NASA
[01:34:16.260] administrator Bill Nelson I asked you
[01:34:18.120] know why NASA needed to be fully funded
[01:34:21.239] and there were many great reasons but
[01:34:23.040] one of them was actually had to do with
[01:34:25.020] uaps I mean he actually mentioned you
[01:34:27.659] know is there life out there I don't
[01:34:29.159] know and so either way uh these actions
[01:34:32.820] ultimately LED NASA to assemble the
[01:34:35.159] independent study team that I mentioned
[01:34:37.139] earlier also in 2021 Harvard University
[01:34:39.960] stood up the Galileo project to research
[01:34:43.139] and examine the origins of UAP so it
[01:34:46.080] seems like both you know from NASA and
[01:34:48.600] in the higher education Community
[01:34:50.340] because of the work that you all have
[01:34:52.500] done and people standing up you know I
[01:34:54.719] think we're seeing some of that stigma
[01:34:57.659] um slowly going away Mr uh freyr do you
[01:35:00.540] believe that military Pilots feeling
[01:35:02.159] empowered to share their UAP experiences
[01:35:04.679] has directly uh impacted the scientific
[01:35:07.260] communities research goals on this topic
[01:35:12.239] I would say yes I would say that you
[01:35:14.400] know starting in 2017 when it actually
[01:35:16.080] came out it took that stigma away I mean
[01:35:18.480] I've talked to multiple Senators who
[01:35:19.860] said prior to that if you'd mention UAP
[01:35:21.960] you'd have been laughed off the hill and
[01:35:24.600] now you've we're sitting here today for
[01:35:26.400] a public testimony on what's actually
[01:35:28.199] going on you know I I'm hoping that this
[01:35:31.020] Curve will be more of an exponential and
[01:35:33.060] we'll get more and more transparent to
[01:35:34.920] the level that we can yeah yeah and yeah
[01:35:37.380] I mean it's important I couldn't imagine
[01:35:40.199] you know I'm not a pilot but I used to
[01:35:42.000] fly gliders in Civil Air Patrol uh yeah
[01:35:45.659] I got yeah
[01:35:49.020] um and so either way I mean I couldn't
[01:35:50.880] imagine you know being being in the
[01:35:53.760] glider and seeing something
[01:35:55.800] um and then not feeling like I had the
[01:35:58.139] agency to talk about it
[01:36:00.719] um Mr Graves can you discuss the
[01:36:02.159] importance of seeking scientists to sit
[01:36:03.840] on your Advisory Board absolutely I
[01:36:06.239] think ultimately this is going to be a
[01:36:07.679] scientific problem and not only that
[01:36:09.659] it's also an engineering problem I've
[01:36:12.300] been working with American Institute of
[01:36:13.920] Aeronautics and astronautics to help
[01:36:15.300] them stand up a UAP integration
[01:36:17.100] committee to help integrate their
[01:36:18.540] engineering prowess into this problem
[01:36:20.280] and so yes very much I think this is an
[01:36:22.620] engineering and scientific problem as
[01:36:24.239] much as national security problem and
[01:36:26.400] how might Congress help to facilitate
[01:36:28.139] Partnerships between the scientific
[01:36:30.000] community and the UAP focus groups
[01:36:31.980] within government
[01:36:33.239] well I think one of the things they can
[01:36:34.739] do is to have these types of hearings to
[01:36:36.900] communicate to the public that this is a
[01:36:38.699] topic of Interest I think that there is
[01:36:40.679] a pseudo-market if you will of
[01:36:42.300] interested capabilities and talent that
[01:36:44.280] want to approach this topic and we're
[01:36:46.620] seeing that start to grow now so I think
[01:36:48.239] continued conversation reduction of
[01:36:49.860] stigma is going to allow that to
[01:36:51.540] flourish and allow answers to help
[01:36:53.159] generate themselves 100 well thank you
[01:36:55.560] all for being here and thank you for
[01:36:56.699] your work I think it's important that we
[01:36:58.020] keep our top scientific Minds focused on
[01:37:00.780] this issue and look for ways to increase
[01:37:02.940] collaboration thank you so much I yield
[01:37:04.800] back Mr Comer thank you Mr chairman let
[01:37:08.219] me say I want to thank you for having
[01:37:10.500] this hearing and I want to thank Mr
[01:37:11.820] burchett Miss Luna for leading this
[01:37:13.679] hearing and with that I yield my five
[01:37:15.360] minutes to Mr burchett thank you Mr
[01:37:17.699] chairman I'm going to direct this I
[01:37:20.040] believe to Mr grush but if any of you
[01:37:22.500] all feel like you need to jump in Just
[01:37:24.600] Jump Right In we're good as the U.S
[01:37:27.360] government become aware of actual
[01:37:28.980] evidence of extraterrestrial otherwise
[01:37:30.840] unexplained forms of intelligence and if
[01:37:33.780] so when do you think this first occurred
[01:37:37.080] I like to use the term non-human I don't
[01:37:38.820] like to denote origin keeps the aperture
[01:37:40.860] open both scientifically
[01:37:43.699] certainly like I've discussed publicly
[01:37:46.920] uh previously 1930s
[01:37:49.440] okay
[01:37:50.760] can you give me the names and titles of
[01:37:52.739] the people with direct first-hand
[01:37:54.420] knowledge and access to some of this
[01:37:57.120] crash retrieval some of these crash
[01:37:59.100] retrieval programs and maybe which
[01:38:00.960] facilities military bases that would the
[01:38:03.960] recovered material would be in and I
[01:38:05.880] know a lot of Congress talked about
[01:38:06.960] we're going to go to Area 51 and you
[01:38:09.179] know and
[01:38:10.560] there's nothing there anymore anyway
[01:38:12.179] it's just you know and we move like a
[01:38:14.340] glacier as soon as we announce it I'm
[01:38:16.139] sure the moving vans would pull up but
[01:38:18.000] please
[01:38:19.560] uh I can't discuss that publicly but I
[01:38:21.960] did provide that information both to the
[01:38:23.760] Intel committees and the Inspector
[01:38:25.080] General and we could get that in this
[01:38:26.639] gift if we were allowed to get in a
[01:38:28.139] skiff with you would that be probably
[01:38:29.460] what you would think sure if you had the
[01:38:31.320] appropriate accesses yeah uh what
[01:38:33.719] special access programs cover this
[01:38:35.880] information and how is it possible that
[01:38:38.040] they have evaded oversight for so long
[01:38:43.139] I do know the names once again I can't
[01:38:44.760] discuss that publicly and how they've
[01:38:46.500] evaded oversight I in a closed setting I
[01:38:49.020] can tell you the specific tradecraft use
[01:38:50.520] all right
[01:38:52.500] when do you think those programs began
[01:38:54.960] and who authorized them
[01:38:58.500] I do know a lot of that information but
[01:39:00.300] that's something I can't discuss
[01:39:01.440] publicly because since many of y'all
[01:39:03.719] want to jump in on any of this you're
[01:39:05.040] more than welcome to
[01:39:07.260] um what level of security clearance is
[01:39:09.060] required to fully access these programs
[01:39:12.719] well anybody who has uh and I say that
[01:39:15.360] because myself
[01:39:17.400] um representing Gates and representative
[01:39:19.139] Luna were basically turned away at one
[01:39:22.020] point at Eglin so please go out ahead
[01:39:24.739] certainly difference between member
[01:39:26.760] access and say somebody like me but
[01:39:28.500] anybody who has a you know tssci
[01:39:30.300] clearance and meets the eligibility
[01:39:31.620] criteria the access adjudicative
[01:39:33.659] Authority should be able to Grant you
[01:39:35.219] access
[01:39:36.620] so just to be put a fine point on that
[01:39:40.020] there's nothing that you're aware of
[01:39:42.000] that's above special access program
[01:39:44.100] classification
[01:39:46.500] if there's anything actually Above Top
[01:39:48.120] Secret executive order 13526 delineates
[01:39:50.880] the classification levels right and but
[01:39:52.679] I I draw a point on that because we can
[01:39:54.540] have access to to those programs and so
[01:39:57.719] the notion that we're not being given
[01:40:00.000] that access sort of defies our typical
[01:40:02.400] muscle memory here in Congress thank you
[01:40:03.719] Mr Merchant I'll yield back to you thank
[01:40:05.400] you Mr Gates
[01:40:06.900] um along those lines title 10 you might
[01:40:08.940] not know this or not but title 10 and
[01:40:10.800] title 50 authorization
[01:40:13.199] as they they seem to say they're
[01:40:15.060] inefficient it so who gets to decide
[01:40:18.000] this in your opinion in the past
[01:40:21.300] uh it's a group of career
[01:40:24.060] senior executive officials
[01:40:26.280] okay are they government officials
[01:40:29.719] do what both in and outs of government
[01:40:32.760] and that's about as far as all right
[01:40:35.040] well that's it leads to my next question
[01:40:38.280] which private corporations are directly
[01:40:40.560] involved in this program how much
[01:40:42.840] taxpayer money has been invested in
[01:40:44.699] these programs to your knowledge
[01:40:47.219] I mean we know we know we we audit the
[01:40:49.679] Pentagon every year and I've been here
[01:40:52.080] five years and they failed the dadgum
[01:40:53.639] thing every year
[01:40:55.260] I lose over a billion dollars a year we
[01:40:58.500] think and I've told the Department of
[01:41:00.179] Defense maybe 60 percent of their assets
[01:41:01.920] are unaccounted for whatever the heck
[01:41:03.360] that means in the Public's sector you go
[01:41:06.540] to jail for that kind of crap so tell me
[01:41:09.480] yeah I know when I um I'm a dollar off
[01:41:11.820] of my DTS travel voucher I get hammered
[01:41:14.159] but uh seems like it doesn't work if you
[01:41:15.960] sell over six if you sell over 600 worth
[01:41:18.239] of stuff on eBay now you get a call from
[01:41:20.100] the IRS so please what corporations yeah
[01:41:23.159] I don't know these specific metrics
[01:41:24.480] towards the end of your question uh the
[01:41:26.159] specific corporations I did provide uh
[01:41:28.560] to the Committees in specific divisions
[01:41:30.780] and
[01:41:31.739] uh I spent 11 and a half hours at both
[01:41:33.840] Intel committees okay has there been any
[01:41:36.420] has there been an active U.S government
[01:41:38.400] disinformation campaign to deny the
[01:41:40.739] existence of
[01:41:41.840] unidentified aerial phenomena and if so
[01:41:45.000] why
[01:41:46.500] it can't go beyond what I've already
[01:41:47.639] exposed publicly about that
[01:42:03.440] okay I've been told to ask you what that
[01:42:06.119] what that is and how to get it in the
[01:42:08.040] record
[01:42:09.719] which uh what have you stated publicly
[01:42:12.600] in your interviews for the Congressional
[01:42:14.580] Record uh yeah if you uh reference my
[01:42:18.119] news Nation interview and I talk about a
[01:42:20.159] multi-decade you know campaign to
[01:42:23.100] um disenfranchise public interest
[01:42:24.659] basically yeah thank you I apologize for
[01:42:27.659] Mr chairman I yield back negative 21
[01:42:29.940] seconds thank you Mrs ocasio-cortez
[01:42:34.440] thank you Mr chairman and thank you to
[01:42:36.239] our Witnesses for coming here today I do
[01:42:38.940] concur with the ranking members as well
[01:42:40.980] as several other members here on this
[01:42:42.300] committee that this is a committee for
[01:42:44.280] whistleblowers and for the protection of
[01:42:46.020] whistleblowers as well so we understand
[01:42:47.600] what you're putting
[01:42:49.619] um on the table here and we're putting
[01:42:51.540] on the line here and we thank you for
[01:42:52.500] that uh Mr Crush you sat on the
[01:42:54.659] unidentified anomalous phenomenon task
[01:42:56.760] force created in the 2020 ndaa correct
[01:42:59.340] yes there have been some things that uh
[01:43:02.219] that have been mentioned here during
[01:43:03.719] this hearing that I wanted to pick up on
[01:43:06.659] um Mr Graves you mentioned specifically
[01:43:08.940] during the answer to one of your
[01:43:10.260] questions you named Boeing contractors
[01:43:13.920] um being engaged in an incident
[01:43:15.659] regarding this Red Cube about a football
[01:43:18.960] um football field wide I was wondering
[01:43:21.239] if you could speak a little bit about
[01:43:22.920] the interaction or Mr gresh either of
[01:43:25.980] you the interactions between defense
[01:43:27.480] contractor companies and nauap related
[01:43:30.179] programs or activities
[01:43:31.800] so I'll just say that the information
[01:43:33.480] about uh the contractor himself were
[01:43:36.000] provided by a witness and I have no
[01:43:37.560] particular detail in that relationship
[01:43:39.060] Mr gresh
[01:43:41.040] the kind of General unclass wave tops
[01:43:43.440] certainly the contractors you know or
[01:43:45.179] the metal Benders so to speak the ones
[01:43:46.920] actually uh doing specific performance
[01:43:49.980] on government contracts are they
[01:43:51.300] required
[01:43:52.380] um to issue any disclosure regarding UAP
[01:43:54.900] sightings or do they engage in any uh
[01:43:57.659] reporting around this uh in terms of the
[01:43:59.520] contractors not that I'm aware of they
[01:44:01.739] do not okay now when it comes to
[01:44:05.159] notification that you had mentioned
[01:44:07.320] about
[01:44:08.639] um
[01:44:09.440] irap program I read programs we have
[01:44:13.080] seen defense contractors abuse their
[01:44:17.280] contracts before through this committee
[01:44:18.780] I have seen it personally and I have
[01:44:22.020] also seen the notification requirements
[01:44:23.760] to Congress abused
[01:44:25.860] um I am wondering
[01:44:27.840] one of the loopholes that we see in the
[01:44:30.000] law is that there is at least from my
[01:44:32.400] vantage point is that depending on what
[01:44:35.460] we're seeing is that there are no actual
[01:44:37.380] definitions or requirements for
[01:44:38.940] notification are there
[01:44:41.699] what methods of notification Did You
[01:44:44.280] observe like when they say they notified
[01:44:45.900] Congress how did they do that do you
[01:44:48.480] have insight into that
[01:44:50.280] uh for certain irad activities
[01:44:54.020] I can only think of one's conventional
[01:44:56.219] in nature
[01:44:57.659] um sometimes they throw flow through
[01:44:59.699] certain I'll say sap programs that have
[01:45:02.400] cognizant authority over the air force
[01:45:05.400] or something and those are
[01:45:06.360] congressionally reported compartments
[01:45:07.920] but ired is literally internal to the
[01:45:10.260] contractor so as long as it's money
[01:45:12.600] either profits private investment Etc
[01:45:15.239] they can do whatever they want to put a
[01:45:16.560] finer point on it when there is a
[01:45:18.719] requirement for any agency or company to
[01:45:21.780] notify or any agency to notify Congress
[01:45:24.900] do they contact the chairman of a
[01:45:27.060] committee do they get them on the phone
[01:45:28.800] specifically is this through an email to
[01:45:31.380] hypothetically a dead email box
[01:45:34.860] a lot of it comes through what they call
[01:45:36.719] the PPR periodic program review process
[01:45:39.179] if it's a you know a sap or controlled
[01:45:42.119] Access program equity and then those go
[01:45:43.980] to the specific committees whether it be
[01:45:45.420] the SAS cast thank you
[01:45:48.000] um I apologize I just my time is limited
[01:45:50.940] um Mr Graves one of your main concerns
[01:45:53.340] that the FAA currently does not have an
[01:45:55.500] official process to receive reports of
[01:45:57.480] UAP from Pilots or others correct
[01:45:59.400] correct and um in your experience what
[01:46:03.659] data should the Aero program prioritize
[01:46:06.179] for potential collection we have you
[01:46:08.639] know location date time but are there
[01:46:10.440] other specific activity characteristics
[01:46:13.380] that should be included in these reports
[01:46:14.820] certainly I think that there's two
[01:46:17.280] categories that would be important one
[01:46:19.020] would be kinematics and understanding
[01:46:20.760] the specifics of how the vehicle or
[01:46:22.199] objects are moving and the second would
[01:46:24.300] be a more zoomed out approach of being
[01:46:25.980] able to look at origin and destination
[01:46:28.560] after before the incident as well as
[01:46:31.080] getting a better contextual
[01:46:32.100] understanding of how these uh these
[01:46:34.020] objects are interact with each other
[01:46:35.639] thank you now
[01:46:38.280] because I only have a minute left I
[01:46:39.780] apologize we only have five minutes
[01:46:40.980] today but
[01:46:42.719] um
[01:46:43.260] for the record if you were me where
[01:46:46.500] would you look
[01:46:47.639] titles programs
[01:46:50.600] departments regions if you could just
[01:46:53.760] name
[01:46:55.080] anything and I put that as an open
[01:46:58.440] question to the three of you
[01:47:00.900] I'd be happy to give you that in a
[01:47:02.460] closed environment I can tell you
[01:47:03.659] specifically thank you
[01:47:06.900] um Commander fraver
[01:47:08.639] I would say and I've told people that
[01:47:10.380] you have to know where to look they're
[01:47:11.760] not going to divulge it to you because
[01:47:13.199] the classification levels but if you
[01:47:14.580] know where to look and who to talk to
[01:47:15.780] which is exactly Mr Gresham point you
[01:47:18.000] then you then you have them okay Mr
[01:47:20.760] Graves I was an operator so I was
[01:47:22.380] defending on folks like Mr garage to do
[01:47:24.000] that homework okay thank you very much I
[01:47:26.219] yield back to the chair
[01:47:28.800] Mr Biggs thanks thanks Mr chairman I
[01:47:31.500] thank the witnesses for being here today
[01:47:32.880] I'm over here
[01:47:35.480] thank you so much for being here
[01:47:38.940] um
[01:47:40.860] I I want to get into uh specifics here
[01:47:44.880] and and a reason I'm going to go this
[01:47:47.520] way is because
[01:47:49.020] you've talked a bit about
[01:47:51.179] um
[01:47:51.780] what I would call misdirection by
[01:47:55.520] official U.S government with regard to
[01:47:58.739] uaps right
[01:48:00.600] and so I'm going to get to that in a
[01:48:02.219] second but last week White House NSC
[01:48:04.260] spokesman John Kirby stated that uaps
[01:48:06.960] are having an impact on our training
[01:48:08.280] ranges and needs to be treated as a
[01:48:09.840] legitimate issue do you concur with the
[01:48:11.820] statements that's for each of you yes
[01:48:15.420] yes okay
[01:48:18.840] um
[01:48:19.560] now having said that I'm going to take
[01:48:22.860] you to specific instances around the
[01:48:24.600] Phoenix Valley because that's where I I
[01:48:27.300] live and in 97 we had the famous
[01:48:31.260] Phoenix light case I don't know if any
[01:48:33.600] of you are familiar with that
[01:48:36.119] there were there were two things that
[01:48:37.800] went along with that and the explanation
[01:48:40.199] was
[01:48:41.400] military training range off Luke and the
[01:48:44.100] Barry Goldwater range
[01:48:46.080] do you know anything different other
[01:48:47.400] than the official explanation of those
[01:48:49.020] lights
[01:48:51.179] only what's in the public vernacular
[01:48:53.040] about it that was outside the scope of
[01:48:54.659] my
[01:48:55.679] duties and if we wanted to just my
[01:48:58.380] question along with my colleague from
[01:48:59.699] New York Ms ocasio-cortez if we wanted
[01:49:01.560] to find out more about that where would
[01:49:04.739] we go to find the files and who where
[01:49:07.320] and who would we address and are you
[01:49:09.840] gonna tell me we need to go to a skiff
[01:49:10.980] so you can tell us in a skiff
[01:49:13.800] I could potentially give you a vector on
[01:49:15.960] that that specific case I'm not I mean
[01:49:17.820] I'm familiar with it in terms of public
[01:49:19.139] but uh I I give you a vector in closed
[01:49:21.719] environment yeah that would be good
[01:49:22.860] thank you
[01:49:23.880] so if if it's true that uaps are having
[01:49:27.840] an impact on training ranges and this
[01:49:30.600] Administration considers it to be a
[01:49:32.340] legitimate issue what steps can Congress
[01:49:34.139] take to address training range impacts
[01:49:35.940] and I say that having two very large
[01:49:38.760] training ranges in my state and so we'll
[01:49:41.880] start with Mr gravesen going down the
[01:49:43.739] panel
[01:49:44.880] some of the initial procedures have been
[01:49:46.800] implemented uh such as within the United
[01:49:48.900] States Navy that have a range value
[01:49:51.000] report that gathers information from
[01:49:52.980] Pilots I understand that a service-wide
[01:49:55.980] reporting mechanism is still pending
[01:49:57.600] however that would be a great Next Step
[01:49:59.940] not only for gathering information but
[01:50:02.100] for showing the troops that is an
[01:50:03.780] acceptable topic and reducing the stigma
[01:50:05.580] is okay please all of you continue
[01:50:08.880] yeah as a recipient of a lot of those
[01:50:10.380] training range reports sometimes we only
[01:50:12.780] get contextual kind of oral uh reporting
[01:50:16.679] it'd be nice if they attached all sensor
[01:50:18.659] data and there's a system in place that
[01:50:20.880] can handle multiple classifications of
[01:50:22.860] data and that's an issue with the F-35
[01:50:25.020] right that jet was never built to be an
[01:50:26.880] ISR platform and it's a pain in the well
[01:50:29.699] to say but to get that data off so yeah
[01:50:32.340] great thank you
[01:50:34.380] yeah I would agree with the previous two
[01:50:36.119] being a user of those training ranges
[01:50:38.060] that the data has to be out there you
[01:50:40.560] have to acknowledge that you're seeing
[01:50:42.000] them and then you have to collect the
[01:50:43.080] data right now you get the report
[01:50:44.340] someone says I saw something but no one
[01:50:46.020] collects the radar data to back it up
[01:50:48.060] and do research okay do you believe that
[01:50:50.760] the 2019 classification guidelines for
[01:50:52.500] uaps interferes with the federal
[01:50:54.239] government's ability to be transparent
[01:50:56.100] with the American people and do you
[01:50:58.080] think we need to be more transparent
[01:50:59.340] with the American people
[01:51:01.380] all of you yeah I'll say yes to that
[01:51:05.880] familiar with the the at least the UAP
[01:51:07.920] task force 2019 security classification
[01:51:10.380] guide I think it's fair
[01:51:12.719] um I did actually help uh author that
[01:51:14.820] with the oh yeah you got a bias that way
[01:51:16.920] but I will say
[01:51:20.100] about declassifying videos I mean I've
[01:51:22.440] seen some of the videos of you know the
[01:51:24.360] recent shoot down and I saw no reason
[01:51:26.520] that couldn't have been released as long
[01:51:28.679] as they mask you know some data the
[01:51:31.260] American people deserve to see that that
[01:51:32.820] imagery and full motion video
[01:51:37.380] uh I would think well in my opinion I
[01:51:40.380] will say
[01:51:41.520] things are over classified I know for a
[01:51:44.040] fact the video or the pictures that came
[01:51:45.900] out in the 20 things 2020 report that
[01:51:47.880] had the stuff off the east coast they
[01:51:49.139] were taken with an iPhone off the east
[01:51:51.060] coast a buddy of mine was one of the
[01:51:52.260] senior people there and he said they're
[01:51:53.280] originally classified a tssci and my
[01:51:55.679] question to him was what's tssci about
[01:51:57.360] these they're an iPhone right literally
[01:51:59.639] off the vacapes that's not tssci so
[01:52:01.920] they're over classified and as soon as
[01:52:03.119] they do that they go in a vault and then
[01:52:04.619] you all have to look for them yeah so
[01:52:06.619] with the over classification that may be
[01:52:09.000] one way are there other ways that the
[01:52:10.560] dod or intelligence agencies are keeping
[01:52:13.320] this information from the American
[01:52:14.280] people or even from Congress
[01:52:17.760] I think part of that has been uh not
[01:52:20.280] encouraging reporting if the problem is
[01:52:22.560] not something that can be measured it's
[01:52:23.760] not something that's going to be fixed
[01:52:24.840] okay very good with I'm out of time and
[01:52:28.080] I thank you Mr chairman I know you'll
[01:52:29.940] bet
[01:52:30.960] uh first of all without objection
[01:52:32.699] representative Nick Langworthy of New
[01:52:34.860] York has waved on the subcommittee for
[01:52:36.840] purpose of questioning Witnesses in
[01:52:38.520] today's subcommittee hearing
[01:52:40.560] and then we go to Mr Burleson
[01:52:45.060] thank you Mr chairman
[01:52:46.860] um appreciate you guys coming out today
[01:52:48.840] testifying look I've been here for six
[01:52:51.239] months and I'm pretty skeptical I don't
[01:52:53.940] trust anything in this town
[01:52:56.040] and um and so I and I think that's
[01:52:59.280] because I'm from Missouri you've got to
[01:53:00.900] show me right
[01:53:02.460] um with that being said
[01:53:04.020] um there's been a lot of things that
[01:53:05.460] have been said
[01:53:07.080] um in in the public uh Mr crush and and
[01:53:10.320] so I want to get down to if we can some
[01:53:12.780] specifics right so
[01:53:15.540] um
[01:53:16.320] at one point you had said that they're
[01:53:17.940] they're my there has been harmful
[01:53:20.760] activity or Progressive activity has any
[01:53:23.520] of the activity
[01:53:25.440] um been aggressive been hostile that in
[01:53:29.040] your reports
[01:53:30.260] I know of multiple colleagues of mine
[01:53:33.179] that got physically injured and the
[01:53:36.420] activity and I gotta if I buy uaps or
[01:53:40.619] buy by people within the federal
[01:53:44.100] government both
[01:53:45.360] okay so there has been activity by by
[01:53:49.260] alien or
[01:53:51.500] non-human technology and or beings that
[01:53:55.080] has caused harm to
[01:53:56.940] humans
[01:53:58.320] uh I can't get into the specifics in an
[01:54:00.960] open environment but at least the
[01:54:02.820] activity that I personally witnessed and
[01:54:06.960] not to be very careful here because you
[01:54:08.760] don't you know they tell you never to
[01:54:09.960] acknowledge tradecraft right so what I
[01:54:12.000] personally witness myself and my wife
[01:54:13.800] was very disturbing
[01:54:17.280] okay
[01:54:19.199] um one of my constituents actually sent
[01:54:21.119] this next question and I figured I'd ask
[01:54:23.940] it since I had the same thought you've
[01:54:26.040] said that U.S and has intact spake
[01:54:29.940] spacecraft you said that the government
[01:54:31.800] has alien bodies or alien species
[01:54:35.280] have you seen have you have you seen the
[01:54:38.040] spacecraft
[01:54:40.320] I have to be careful to describe what
[01:54:42.780] I've seen firsthand and not in this
[01:54:44.880] environment but I could answer that
[01:54:46.380] question behind behind closed doors here
[01:54:48.119] and have you seen any of the bodies
[01:54:50.699] that's something I've I've not witnessed
[01:54:53.760] myself okay and so with that being said
[01:54:56.940] you know the other statement that has
[01:54:58.980] been made that was intriguing to me
[01:55:00.900] because and it's intriguing because my
[01:55:03.900] my view has been that we are billions of
[01:55:07.139] light years away from any any other
[01:55:09.540] system and the concept that an alien
[01:55:14.100] species that's technologically advanced
[01:55:16.139] enough to travel billions of light years
[01:55:17.820] gets here and somehow is incompetent
[01:55:20.520] enough to not survive Earth or crashes
[01:55:24.020] is is something that I find a little bit
[01:55:27.500] far-fetched and with that being said you
[01:55:30.300] have mentioned that there's
[01:55:31.260] interdimensional potential could you
[01:55:34.020] expound on that
[01:55:35.639] oh yeah to answer your first question
[01:55:37.380] and you know I'm here as a fact witness
[01:55:39.119] an expert but I will give you a a
[01:55:41.100] theoretical framework at least to work
[01:55:42.659] off to kind of expose uh crashes uh
[01:55:46.500] regardless of uh you know your level of
[01:55:48.420] sentience right you know planes crash
[01:55:50.159] cars crash and number of sorties what
[01:55:52.980] however High a small percentage are
[01:55:54.900] going to end in you know Mission failure
[01:55:56.520] if you will as we say in the in the air
[01:55:57.960] force uh and then in terms of uh
[01:56:01.760] multi-dimensionality that kind of thing
[01:56:03.480] the the framework that I'm familiar with
[01:56:06.000] for example is something called the
[01:56:08.280] holographic principle uh both uh it's it
[01:56:11.580] derives itself from general relativity
[01:56:13.080] and quantum mechanics and that is if you
[01:56:16.440] want to imagine uh 3D objects such as
[01:56:19.080] yourself casting a shadow onto a 2d
[01:56:21.540] surface that's the holographic principle
[01:56:24.060] so you can be projected quasi-projected
[01:56:26.280] from higher dimensional space to lower
[01:56:28.199] dimensional it's a scientific Trope that
[01:56:30.000] you can actually cross literally as far
[01:56:32.159] as I understand but there's probably
[01:56:33.420] guys with phds that we can probably but
[01:56:36.659] you have not seen any documentation that
[01:56:38.520] that's what's occurring uh only a
[01:56:40.320] theoretical framework discussion okay
[01:56:43.560] um okay
[01:56:46.199] Occam's razor
[01:56:48.360] my is that
[01:56:50.820] this these aircraft have they been
[01:56:53.520] identified that they are being produced
[01:56:55.500] by
[01:56:56.520] by domestic
[01:56:58.619] um you know military and um contractors
[01:57:01.800] is there any evidence that that's what's
[01:57:03.600] being recovered
[01:57:05.100] uh not to my knowledge plus the
[01:57:07.320] recoveries predate a lot of our Advanced
[01:57:09.360] programs that I previously am waiting of
[01:57:11.219] so
[01:57:12.540] um would it be safe to say that there
[01:57:15.300] could be a scenario today where you have
[01:57:18.139] an aircraft that crashes and because
[01:57:22.500] it's been involved in one program from
[01:57:24.480] One Federal agency and the but the but
[01:57:28.020] the agency that retrieves it is not
[01:57:30.540] aware of that program and to them it
[01:57:32.820] appears alien in origin
[01:57:36.360] I mean that's a hypothetical situation
[01:57:38.040] I'm not aware of any uh historical
[01:57:40.619] situation that would match that that you
[01:57:42.960] described so you're not aware it has not
[01:57:45.239] happened that you're aware of that I'm
[01:57:47.219] aware of
[01:57:49.739] um thank you Mr chairman I yield back
[01:57:57.199] several months ago my office received a
[01:57:59.760] protected disclosure from Eglin Air
[01:58:02.040] Force Base indicating that there was a
[01:58:03.840] UAP incident that required my attention
[01:58:06.179] I sought a briefing regarding that
[01:58:08.760] episode and brought with me congressman
[01:58:11.219] burchett and congresswoman Luna we asked
[01:58:14.520] to see any of the evidence that had been
[01:58:16.800] taken by flight crew in this endeavor
[01:58:18.719] and to observe any radar signature as
[01:58:21.659] long as as well as to meet with the
[01:58:23.219] flight crew we were not afforded access
[01:58:26.580] to all of the flight crew and initially
[01:58:29.699] we were not afforded access to images
[01:58:32.699] and to radar thereafter we had a bit of
[01:58:37.679] a discussion about how authorities flow
[01:58:39.599] in the United States of America and we
[01:58:41.940] did see the image and we did meet with
[01:58:45.179] one member of the flight crew who took
[01:58:46.860] the image the image was of something
[01:58:49.080] that I am not able to attach to any
[01:58:52.679] human capability either from the United
[01:58:55.440] States or from any of our adversaries
[01:58:57.900] and I'm somewhat informed on the matter
[01:58:59.699] having served on the armed services
[01:59:01.679] committee for seven years having served
[01:59:03.659] on the committee that oversees DARPA and
[01:59:05.639] Advanced Technologies for several years
[01:59:08.760] um when we spoke with the flight crew
[01:59:11.280] and when he showed us the photo that
[01:59:13.260] he'd taken I asked why the video wasn't
[01:59:15.599] engaged why we didn't have a FLIR system
[01:59:18.540] that worked here's what he said they
[01:59:21.060] were out on a test mission that day over
[01:59:23.340] the Gulf of Mexico and when you're on a
[01:59:26.040] test mission you're supposed to have
[01:59:27.300] clear air space not supposed to be
[01:59:28.920] anything that shows up and they saw a
[01:59:31.260] sequence of four craft
[01:59:33.780] in a clear diamond formation
[01:59:36.360] for which there is
[01:59:38.820] a radar sequence that I and I alone have
[01:59:42.719] observed in the United States Congress
[01:59:45.540] one of the pilots goes to check out that
[01:59:47.520] diamond formation and sees a large
[01:59:49.860] floating what I can only describe as an
[01:59:52.199] orb again like I said not of any human
[01:59:54.960] capability that I'm that I'm aware of
[01:59:57.420] and when he approached he said that his
[02:00:00.540] radar went down he said that his flear
[02:00:03.420] system malfunctioned and that he had to
[02:00:05.940] manually take this image from one of the
[02:00:10.199] lenses and it was not automatic
[02:00:12.119] automated in collection as you would
[02:00:14.699] typically see in a test mission so uh I
[02:00:18.540] guess I'll start with Commander fraver
[02:00:20.880] what in how should we think about the
[02:00:24.060] fact that this craft that was approached
[02:00:26.760] by our pilot uh had the capability of
[02:00:30.960] disarming a number of the sensor and
[02:00:33.540] collection systems on that craft
[02:00:36.179] well I think this goes to that National
[02:00:37.619] Security side and you can go back
[02:00:38.940] through history of
[02:00:40.440] things showing up at certain areas and
[02:00:42.300] disabling our capabilities which is
[02:00:44.580] disheartening and for us I mean like I
[02:00:46.860] said it it completely disabled the radar
[02:00:49.020] and aircraft when I tried to do it the
[02:00:50.460] only way we could see it is passively
[02:00:51.659] which is how he got that image so I
[02:00:53.820] think that's a that's a concern on what
[02:00:55.560] are these doing not only how do they
[02:00:56.940] operate but their capabilities inside to
[02:00:59.099] do things like this and and how should
[02:01:01.380] we think about for craft moving in a
[02:01:04.980] very clear formation equidistant from
[02:01:08.159] one another
[02:01:09.500] in a diamond in all of the phenomenon
[02:01:13.320] perhaps Mr grave that you've analyzed um
[02:01:15.780] have we ever seen multiple craft in a
[02:01:18.179] single formation
[02:01:20.040] I have one particular case and that was
[02:01:22.139] uh during the gimbal incident the
[02:01:24.599] recording on the at FLIR system shows a
[02:01:26.940] single object that rotates
[02:01:28.800] um you hear the pilots refer to a fleet
[02:01:31.020] of objects that is not visible on the
[02:01:32.820] FLIR system and that was something that
[02:01:34.560] I witnessed during the debrief as part
[02:01:36.540] of the radar data on the situational
[02:01:37.980] awareness page I would like to add
[02:01:40.199] whoever Congressman there's a small a
[02:01:43.139] small bit of a uh anger I would say I
[02:01:45.900] would feel that those Pilots are still
[02:01:47.340] uh facing that difficulty in reporting
[02:01:49.380] this topic and they don't have the tools
[02:01:50.760] to be able to mitigate this issue it
[02:01:52.800] just goes to show how serious this is
[02:01:54.360] and why this is such an important issue
[02:01:56.280] for our pilots and for our nation it was
[02:01:58.320] stated explicitly to me by these test
[02:02:00.900] pilots that if you have a u of AP
[02:02:03.840] experience the best thing you can do for
[02:02:06.179] your career is forget it and not tell
[02:02:08.580] anyone because any type of reporting
[02:02:11.280] either above the surface or below the
[02:02:13.560] surface does have a perceived
[02:02:15.960] consequence to these people and that is
[02:02:18.000] a culture we must change if we want to
[02:02:19.980] get to the truth Mr chairman I I would
[02:02:22.080] observe that perhaps as we as we move
[02:02:25.260] forward from this hearing there are some
[02:02:27.300] obvious next steps every person watching
[02:02:29.820] this knows that we need to meet with Mr
[02:02:32.460] grush in a secure compartmentalized
[02:02:34.800] facility so that we can get fulsome
[02:02:37.139] answers that do not put him in Jeopardy
[02:02:38.880] and that and that give us the
[02:02:40.679] information we need second I would
[02:02:43.139] suggest that the radar images from that
[02:02:47.400] were collected of this formation of
[02:02:49.320] craft out of Eglin Air Force Base and
[02:02:51.420] specifically the actual image taken by
[02:02:54.420] the actual flight crew that we can
[02:02:56.340] actually validate be provided to the
[02:02:58.920] committee subpoenaed if necessary so
[02:03:01.679] that we're able to track how to get this
[02:03:03.780] type of reporting and Analysis done in a
[02:03:06.060] more fulsome way that would be my
[02:03:07.500] recommendation humbly as a guest here of
[02:03:09.960] the fine oversight committee I yield
[02:03:11.400] back
[02:03:13.580] Miss mace
[02:03:16.800] thank you Mr chairman and good morning
[02:03:18.840] to our Witnesses who are testifying
[02:03:20.699] today I want to thank each of you for
[02:03:22.080] being here to discuss a topic of grave
[02:03:23.940] importance to our national security
[02:03:25.880] earlier this year Chinese spy balloon
[02:03:28.380] was shot down off the coast of my home
[02:03:30.239] state of South Carolina since the
[02:03:32.460] Roswell incident in 1947 many Americans
[02:03:35.820] have wondered about the dangers of
[02:03:37.440] unknown objects crisscrossing our skies
[02:03:40.020] whether these are uaps or weather
[02:03:42.380] phenomena advanced technology from
[02:03:44.580] American allied or enemy forces or
[02:03:46.320] something more out of this world
[02:03:48.960] so my first question I have several
[02:03:50.820] questions and I'll I if we can just be
[02:03:52.860] quick on these first two I'm going to
[02:03:54.179] ask each of you the same question and
[02:03:56.520] then I'll get to each of you
[02:03:57.300] individually the first one when you
[02:03:59.520] reported your experiences with a UAP did
[02:04:01.920] any of you face any repercussions with
[02:04:03.960] your superiors yes or no no
[02:04:10.860] I've actually never seen anything
[02:04:12.119] personally believe it or not so all
[02:04:14.040] right and then do do you believe there's
[02:04:16.679] an active disinformation campaign within
[02:04:18.719] our government to deny existence of uaps
[02:04:21.420] yes or no
[02:04:22.679] I don't have an answer to that
[02:04:25.560] as previous previously stated publicly
[02:04:27.659] yes
[02:04:29.159] I think previously with like Project
[02:04:30.719] Blue Book yes but currently I don't
[02:04:32.280] speak for the United States government
[02:04:33.300] okay thank you
[02:04:35.280] um I have a few questions for Mr Graves
[02:04:37.679] um what percentage of UAP sightings in
[02:04:39.719] your belief go unreported by our Pilots
[02:04:42.480] this is an approximation based off of my
[02:04:44.820] personal experience speaking with a
[02:04:46.199] number of Pilots but I would estimate
[02:04:47.940] we're somewhere near five percent
[02:04:49.020] reporting perhaps so like 95 basically
[02:04:52.020] don't report
[02:04:53.820] seeing UAP that's just my personal
[02:04:55.500] estimate
[02:04:57.119] um in the incident off Virginia Beach do
[02:04:58.920] you believe the Navy took the danger to
[02:05:00.540] your aircraft seriously after it was
[02:05:02.219] reported absolutely
[02:05:04.800] um a few questions for Mr favor as an
[02:05:07.320] expert Naval aviator have you ever seen
[02:05:09.239] an object that looked and moved like the
[02:05:11.340] Tic Tac UAP
[02:05:14.580] did the Tic Tac UAP move in such a way
[02:05:16.560] that defied the laws of physics
[02:05:19.020] the way we understand them yes
[02:05:21.960] mini dismissed UAP reports as classified
[02:05:24.960] weapons testing by our own government
[02:05:26.699] but in your experience as a pilot does
[02:05:29.219] our government typically test Advanced
[02:05:31.619] weapon systems right next to
[02:05:33.179] multi-million dollar Jets without
[02:05:35.179] informing our Pilots no we have test
[02:05:38.099] ranges for that
[02:05:40.679] it took over 15 years for your encounter
[02:05:43.440] with the Tic Tac to be Declassified do
[02:05:45.480] you feel there was a good reason to
[02:05:46.860] prevent lawmakers from having access to
[02:05:49.080] this footage
[02:05:50.219] no I just think it was ignored when it
[02:05:51.960] happened and it just sat somewhere in a
[02:05:54.179] file never got reported in a door it
[02:05:56.940] happens a lot up here shocker Mr gresh a
[02:06:00.659] couple of questions for you too sir this
[02:06:02.280] morning what percentage of uaps do you
[02:06:04.679] feel are adequately investigated by the
[02:06:07.080] US government of the five percent that
[02:06:09.060] are reported
[02:06:10.800] um I can only speak for my personal
[02:06:13.020] leadership over at NGA I tried to look
[02:06:15.060] at every report that came through that I
[02:06:17.280] could triage so do you believe that
[02:06:19.560] officials at the highest levels of our
[02:06:21.060] national security apparatus have
[02:06:22.980] unlawfully withheld information from
[02:06:25.380] Congress and subverted our oversight
[02:06:27.960] Authority
[02:06:29.460] there are certain elected leaders that
[02:06:32.099] had more information that I'm not sure
[02:06:34.500] what they've shared with certain gang of
[02:06:36.000] eight members or Etc but uh certainly
[02:06:40.080] I would not be surprised okay you've
[02:06:42.659] stated that the government is in
[02:06:43.800] possession of potentially non-human
[02:06:45.719] spacecraft based on your experience and
[02:06:48.900] extensive conversations with experts do
[02:06:51.540] you believe our government has made
[02:06:52.860] contact with intelligent
[02:06:54.420] extraterrestrials
[02:06:57.139] something I can't discuss in public
[02:06:59.520] setting
[02:07:02.280] um okay and I can't ask when you think
[02:07:04.139] this occurred if you believe we have
[02:07:07.139] crashed craft uh stated earlier do we
[02:07:09.840] have the bodies of the pilots who
[02:07:11.460] piloted this craft
[02:07:13.320] as I've stated publicly already in my
[02:07:15.179] news Nation interview biologics came
[02:07:17.400] with some of these recoveries yeah
[02:07:20.400] um
[02:07:21.659] were they I
[02:07:22.920] can or non-human biologics
[02:07:25.380] non-human and that was the assessment of
[02:07:27.420] people with direct knowledge on the
[02:07:29.040] program I talked to that are currently
[02:07:30.300] still on the program and was this
[02:07:32.520] documentary references video photos
[02:07:34.880] eyewitness like how would that be
[02:07:37.320] determined
[02:07:38.639] the specific documentation I would have
[02:07:40.980] to talk to you in a skiff about gotcha
[02:07:44.040] um okay
[02:07:45.719] you may or may not be able to answer my
[02:07:46.980] last question and maybe we get into a
[02:07:48.480] skiff at the next hearing that we have
[02:07:50.040] but who in the government either what
[02:07:53.159] agency sub-agency what contractors who
[02:07:57.420] should be called into the next hearing
[02:07:59.520] about uaps either in a public setting or
[02:08:02.099] even in a private setting and you
[02:08:03.659] probably can't name names but what
[02:08:05.040] agencies or organizations contractors
[02:08:07.380] Etc do we need to call in to get these
[02:08:09.239] questions answered whether it's about
[02:08:10.619] funding what programs are happening and
[02:08:12.960] what's out there I can give you a
[02:08:14.940] specific cooperative and hostile witness
[02:08:17.280] list of specific individuals that were
[02:08:20.699] in those and how soon can we get that
[02:08:22.500] list
[02:08:23.520] I'm happy to provide that to you after
[02:08:24.840] the hearing super thank you and I yield
[02:08:26.699] back
[02:08:30.780] okay now we have Mr langworthy's here
[02:08:37.619] okay
[02:08:38.960] thank you very much uh I'd like to thank
[02:08:41.940] uh all of the witnesses for being here
[02:08:44.340] today uh to discuss this very unique
[02:08:46.500] topic and I'd like to jump right into my
[02:08:48.780] questions if you don't mind uh Commander
[02:08:50.639] fraver can you briefly describe your
[02:08:52.980] background
[02:08:55.739] yeah it was a enlisted Marine Naval
[02:08:58.380] Academy graduate Navy flew for 18 years
[02:09:01.679] got a master's from University of
[02:09:03.540] Houston and I've worked in the private
[02:09:05.940] sector for the last what now 19 16 years
[02:09:09.420] 17 years I do a lot of Defense work
[02:09:13.260] so really gold-plated credentials uh
[02:09:15.960] Commander fraver have we have all seen
[02:09:17.940] the floating Tic Tac video uh that you
[02:09:20.699] engage with on November 14 2004. can you
[02:09:24.900] briefly talk about why you were off the
[02:09:26.940] coast of San Diego that day
[02:09:28.739] yeah we were at a workup with all the
[02:09:31.260] battle groups so we integrate the ships
[02:09:32.880] with the carrier the airwing with the
[02:09:34.199] carrier and we start working so we're
[02:09:35.400] doing an air defense to hone not only
[02:09:37.679] our skills but those are the USS
[02:09:39.000] Princeton when they had been tracking
[02:09:40.739] them for two weeks the problem was that
[02:09:42.239] there was never manned aircraft Airborne
[02:09:44.099] when they were tracking them and this
[02:09:45.420] was the first day and unfortunately we
[02:09:48.060] were the ones that were born and went
[02:09:49.080] and saw it
[02:09:50.099] do you remember the weather that day was
[02:09:52.500] it cloudy or windy or anything out of
[02:09:54.659] the ordinary on the Pacific coast it was
[02:09:56.340] actually if if you're familiar with San
[02:09:58.139] Diego was a perfect day light winds no
[02:10:00.239] White Caps clear skies not a cloud it
[02:10:02.639] was for flying it was the best
[02:10:05.340] now is it true that you saw in your
[02:10:07.560] words a 40-foot flying Tick-Tock shaped
[02:10:10.920] object that's correct or for some people
[02:10:13.080] that can't know what a Tic Tac is it's a
[02:10:15.179] giant flying propane tank
[02:10:17.219] fair enough did this object come up on
[02:10:20.340] radar or interfere with your radar or
[02:10:23.159] the USS Princeton the Princeton tractor
[02:10:26.400] the Nimitz tractor the E2 tracked it
[02:10:28.560] we'd never saw it on our Radars our Fire
[02:10:30.599] Control radar has never picked it up the
[02:10:32.760] other airplane that took the video did
[02:10:34.560] get it on a radar as soon as it tried to
[02:10:36.179] lock it it jammed the radar spit the
[02:10:37.560] lock and he rapidly switched over to the
[02:10:39.360] targeting pod which you can do in the uh
[02:10:40.860] in the F-18
[02:10:42.420] from what you saw that day and what
[02:10:44.400] you've seen on video did you see any
[02:10:46.020] source of propulsion from the flying
[02:10:47.760] object including on any potential
[02:10:50.280] thermal scans from your aircraft no
[02:10:53.040] there's none there's no IR plume coming
[02:10:55.320] out and Chad who took the video went
[02:10:57.840] through all the EO which is black and
[02:10:59.340] white TV and the IR modes and there's no
[02:11:01.440] visual signs of a promotion it's just
[02:11:02.820] sitting in space at twenty thousand feet
[02:11:05.040] in in your career have you ever seen a
[02:11:07.260] propulsion system that creates no
[02:11:08.760] thermal exhaust no
[02:11:11.580] can you describe how the aircraft
[02:11:13.500] maneuvered
[02:11:15.000] uh abruptly uh very determinate it knew
[02:11:19.739] exactly what it was doing it was aware
[02:11:20.940] of our presence and it had acceleration
[02:11:22.980] rates I mean it went from zero to
[02:11:24.540] matching our speed and
[02:11:26.340] no time at all
[02:11:27.840] now if the fastest plane on Earth was
[02:11:30.060] trying to do these Maneuvers that you
[02:11:31.619] saw would it be capable of doing that no
[02:11:35.219] not even close
[02:11:37.920] and just to confirm this object had no
[02:11:40.199] wings correct no wings
[02:11:42.840] now was the aircraft that you were
[02:11:45.179] flying was it armed
[02:11:46.920] no never felt threatened at all
[02:11:50.159] if if the aircraft was armed you believe
[02:11:52.560] that your aircraft or any aircraft in
[02:11:54.780] possession of the United States could
[02:11:57.300] have shot the Tic Tac down
[02:12:00.300] I'd say no just on the performance it
[02:12:03.179] was just left
[02:12:04.500] in a Split Second
[02:12:07.440] it looks like
[02:12:09.239] we have a problem here that needs
[02:12:11.159] further investigation
[02:12:13.260] yes
[02:12:15.360] uh
[02:12:16.580] in your belief is this
[02:12:19.619] this flying Tic Tac I mean is this is it
[02:12:22.080] capable of being the product of any
[02:12:25.199] other Nation on the Earth
[02:12:27.179] no I actually I said like I said earlier
[02:12:29.040] I think it defies current Material
[02:12:30.420] Science and the ability to develop that
[02:12:31.980] much propulsion and I know there's been
[02:12:34.080] some physicists of them calculations
[02:12:35.340] which is beyond anything that we have
[02:12:38.699] well either the United States has an
[02:12:40.800] adversary here in this world that we
[02:12:44.159] don't know or we really have some
[02:12:45.659] serious investigations to do I I really
[02:12:47.699] appreciate you being here
[02:12:49.860] um is there anything else about the
[02:12:52.139] November 14 2004 incident that you think
[02:12:55.860] is important for this committee to know
[02:12:57.420] that you haven't been asked here today
[02:12:59.579] no I I you know it's it's been said it's
[02:13:01.800] probably the most credible UFO sighting
[02:13:03.420] in history based on all the sensors that
[02:13:05.579] we're tracking it and then for us to get
[02:13:07.079] Visual and to go against the naysayers
[02:13:09.659] it's something on the screen or whatever
[02:13:11.639] I mean there's four sets of human
[02:13:13.079] eyeballs we're all very credible of the
[02:13:15.480] six of us that were involved in the
[02:13:16.920] thing including the video every one of
[02:13:18.420] us is going to do 20 plus years in the
[02:13:19.920] military in very responsible positions
[02:13:21.840] so I'd say the world needs to know that
[02:13:24.480] this it's not a joke thank you very much
[02:13:27.179] for your testimony here today for all of
[02:13:29.159] you and I yield back Mr chairman Mr
[02:13:31.739] Douglas
[02:13:33.840] thank you Mr chairman and thank you all
[02:13:36.420] for being here and the courage it took
[02:13:38.460] to come forward and and again the
[02:13:40.500] sacrifice that each you have made
[02:13:42.780] um I serve on the national security
[02:13:44.280] subcommittee for the financial services
[02:13:46.020] committee so I really want to stay in
[02:13:47.579] the National Security Lane uh if I may
[02:13:50.400] um so when we think about traditional
[02:13:51.780] adversaries and both us towards them and
[02:13:55.380] them towards us you know we probe their
[02:13:58.079] capabilities we look for weaknesses uh
[02:14:00.719] and we we collect that data that
[02:14:02.460] reconnaissance for in the in the event
[02:14:04.920] we need it in the future
[02:14:07.079] um
[02:14:08.040] for each of you yes or no question based
[02:14:11.400] off of your own experience or the data
[02:14:13.380] that you've been privy to is there any
[02:14:15.780] indication that these uaps could be
[02:14:18.500] essentially
[02:14:20.060] collecting reconnaissance information Mr
[02:14:22.320] Graves
[02:14:23.760] yes Mr grush Fair assessment yeah Mr
[02:14:27.360] fraver very possible
[02:14:29.219] again in the National Security of aim is
[02:14:31.980] it possible that these uaps would be
[02:14:34.500] probing our capabilities yes or no Mr
[02:14:36.480] Graves yes Rush yes Craver definitely
[02:14:40.679] is it possible that these uaps are
[02:14:42.780] testing for vulnerabilities in our
[02:14:44.699] current systems yes
[02:14:47.159] yes possible
[02:14:50.460] do you feel based off of your experience
[02:14:52.679] and the information that you've been
[02:14:53.880] privy to that these UOP uaps provide an
[02:14:58.739] existential threat to the National
[02:14:59.880] Security of the United States Mr Graves
[02:15:02.040] potentially yes sir potentially
[02:15:05.579] same answer potentially yeah I'd say
[02:15:07.560] definitely potentially Mr Graves and
[02:15:09.900] fraver you know in the event that your
[02:15:12.239] encounters have become hostile would you
[02:15:14.579] have would have would you have had the
[02:15:16.079] capability to defend yourself your crew
[02:15:18.540] your aircraft absolutely not sir no
[02:15:23.820] is based off of the information that
[02:15:26.280] you've been privy to is there any
[02:15:28.020] indication that these uaps are
[02:15:30.239] interested in our nuclear technology and
[02:15:31.980] capabilities yes
[02:15:35.300] by external observation sure that could
[02:15:37.980] be a fair assessment yeah yes
[02:15:41.400] is there any indication that department
[02:15:42.900] of energy is involved in UAP data
[02:15:46.079] collection and housing I don't have an
[02:15:48.060] answer
[02:15:49.020] I can't confirm or deny that in a public
[02:15:50.639] setting and could you do it in a in a
[02:15:53.159] secure setting
[02:15:54.840] yes Mr favor no I don't know
[02:15:59.099] Mr chairman
[02:16:00.900] um
[02:16:01.500] you know I think I'm the last member to
[02:16:03.599] go but there clearly is a threat to the
[02:16:07.260] National Security of the United States
[02:16:09.179] of America as members of Congress we
[02:16:12.300] have a responsibility to maintain
[02:16:14.760] oversight and be aware of these
[02:16:17.280] activities
[02:16:18.360] so that if appropriate we take action
[02:16:21.960] I would encourage the chairman to demand
[02:16:24.420] that we have any and all but in
[02:16:27.119] particular Mr grush talk to us in a
[02:16:30.060] skiff
[02:16:30.840] and if that access is denied I will
[02:16:34.139] personally volunteer to initiate the
[02:16:37.139] Holmen rule against any Personnel or any
[02:16:40.460] program or any agency that denies act
[02:16:43.979] access to Congress Mr chairman with that
[02:16:46.979] I will yield the remainder of my time to
[02:16:49.260] my fellow colleague from Tennessee Mr
[02:16:51.420] Bircher
[02:16:55.200] thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr ogles
[02:16:57.179] for the great questions brother
[02:16:59.460] um Mr grush I might have asked this
[02:17:01.559] before but I want to make sure do you
[02:17:03.000] have any personal knowledge of someone
[02:17:04.320] who's possibly been injured working on
[02:17:06.540] Legacy UAP reverse engineering
[02:17:09.660] yes okay
[02:17:12.479] um
[02:17:14.399] how are they injured was it is it
[02:17:17.219] something like a radioactive type
[02:17:18.960] situation or something we didn't
[02:17:20.340] understand I've heard people talk about
[02:17:23.300] Havana syndrome type incidences what was
[02:17:27.059] your recollection of that I can't get
[02:17:29.700] into the specifics but you could imagine
[02:17:31.200] assessing an unknown unknown uh there's
[02:17:34.260] a lot of potentialities you can't fully
[02:17:36.960] prepare for how do you think we ought to
[02:17:38.880] handle UAP whistleblower complaints like
[02:17:40.979] yours in the in the future
[02:17:43.080] yeah there were some issue issues mine
[02:17:45.240] so you know PPD 19 process it goes to
[02:17:47.880] the Intel committees uh either through
[02:17:50.160] ppd19 or icd-120 there's not a good way
[02:17:53.580] for the intelligence Community Inspector
[02:17:55.920] General to provide that to other
[02:17:57.660] committees and I asked my information to
[02:18:01.559] be sent to the House and Senate armed
[02:18:03.599] services committee because there are
[02:18:04.979] title 10 equities at play but there was
[02:18:07.320] no smooth process to do so yeah it's a
[02:18:11.160] trash can
[02:18:13.200] um are you aware of any individuals that
[02:18:15.000] are participating in reverse engineering
[02:18:16.559] programs for non-terrestrial craft
[02:18:19.080] personally yes
[02:18:21.240] uh you know anything to be willing to
[02:18:23.280] testify if there were protections for
[02:18:25.139] them
[02:18:26.160] certainly closed door and assurances uh
[02:18:29.700] the breaking their NDA they're not going
[02:18:31.500] to get administratively punished for so
[02:18:34.439] yeah I yield Mr chair
[02:18:37.620] thank you um I'm going to do something a
[02:18:39.780] little bit out of the ordinary here
[02:18:41.040] we're going to give three people a
[02:18:43.139] chance at an additional three minutes so
[02:18:45.000] Mr
[02:18:46.500] merchant do you want to keep going
[02:18:51.359] why don't you come back to me Mr
[02:18:52.800] chairman
[02:18:54.540] Miss Luna if she's on is she on that
[02:18:56.639] list
[02:18:59.580] sure chairman I'd like to submit for the
[02:19:02.399] record an article by news nation and it
[02:19:04.979] follows Mr grush's full interview for
[02:19:07.380] the record
[02:19:08.219] without objection thank you
[02:19:10.880] Mr grush
[02:19:13.080] why is it that you referred to the
[02:19:15.479] phenomenon as non-human intelligence why
[02:19:18.120] deviate from the basis of
[02:19:19.740] extraterrestrial life
[02:19:21.300] I think the phenomenon is uh very
[02:19:26.099] complex and I like to leave an open mind
[02:19:28.139] analytically to specific origin
[02:19:31.019] when you say specific origin are you
[02:19:33.599] referring can you elaborate on that for
[02:19:35.160] those that might if it's a traditional
[02:19:37.859] extraterrestrial origin or something
[02:19:40.080] else that we don't quite understand
[02:19:42.859] uh from either biological or
[02:19:45.240] astrophysics perspective yeah I just
[02:19:46.920] like the
[02:19:47.939] keep an open mind on what it could be
[02:19:49.439] yeah okay and referring to your new
[02:19:52.080] interview you had referenced specific
[02:19:54.660] treaties between governments
[02:19:57.000] um article 3 of the nuclear arms treaty
[02:19:59.280] with Russia identify as uaps it
[02:20:01.260] specifically mentions them to your
[02:20:03.060] knowledge are there safety measures in
[02:20:04.740] place with foreign governments or other
[02:20:06.300] superpowers to avoid an escalatory
[02:20:09.060] situation in the event that a UAP
[02:20:11.820] um malevolent event occurs
[02:20:14.460] uh yeah you're referring to actual a
[02:20:16.979] public treaty in the U.N register uh
[02:20:19.500] it's funny you mentioned that yeah the
[02:20:20.760] agreement on measures to reduce the risk
[02:20:22.620] of outbreak a nuclear war sign in 1971
[02:20:25.040] uh unclassified treaty publicly
[02:20:27.240] available and If you cite the George
[02:20:29.280] Washington University National Security
[02:20:31.500] archives you will find the Declassified
[02:20:34.380] in 2013 specific Provisions in the
[02:20:38.880] specific uh Red Line flash message
[02:20:41.939] traffic with the specific codes pursuant
[02:20:45.000] to article 3 an article uh also
[02:20:47.819] situation two which is in the the
[02:20:50.040] previously classified NSA archive what I
[02:20:53.280] would recommend and I I tried to get
[02:20:55.500] access but I got a wall of Silence at
[02:20:59.100] the White House
[02:21:00.300] uh was the specific incidents when those
[02:21:03.420] um message traffic was used I think uh
[02:21:06.780] some scholarship on that would open the
[02:21:08.399] door to a further investigation using
[02:21:11.340] those publicly available information
[02:21:12.540] thank you and then my last question with
[02:21:15.120] 51 seconds remaining you mentioned white
[02:21:17.819] collar crimes potentially being
[02:21:20.580] um taking place in regards to a cover-up
[02:21:23.700] can you please elaborate I have concerns
[02:21:26.220] based on the interviews I conducted
[02:21:28.319] under my official duties of potential
[02:21:31.500] violations of the federal acquisition
[02:21:32.939] regulations the far
[02:21:35.640] thank you very much chairman I yield the
[02:21:37.380] remainder of my time
[02:21:39.300] okay we'll go to Mr Raskin for three
[02:21:41.399] minutes
[02:21:42.540] thanks Mr chair and I think the
[02:21:44.700] witnesses for their endurance and
[02:21:46.800] service today
[02:21:48.500] Mr favor you've described your episode
[02:21:52.260] in detail now and you call it uh the
[02:21:55.260] most credible UF site UFO sighting in
[02:21:57.660] history
[02:21:59.160] um
[02:21:59.880] but I wonder
[02:22:02.280] was this the first time that you
[02:22:04.080] encountered a UFO or a UAP
[02:22:08.399] in 2004 yes
[02:22:10.620] yes and what was your general attitude
[02:22:13.920] or
[02:22:15.319] perspective on the UFO discussion before
[02:22:19.560] that happened
[02:22:21.420] I never felt that we were alone with all
[02:22:24.479] the planets out there but I wasn't a UFO
[02:22:26.760] person
[02:22:27.720] I wasn't I wasn't watching History
[02:22:29.280] Channel and mufon and all that
[02:22:31.560] and
[02:22:33.000] um have you had experiences or
[02:22:34.979] encounters since that happened
[02:22:37.260] no
[02:22:39.000] um and so have you formed any general
[02:22:43.439] conclusions about what you think you
[02:22:45.120] experienced then
[02:22:47.040] yes I think what we experienced was like
[02:22:50.700] I said well beyond the Material Science
[02:22:52.200] and the capabilities that we had at the
[02:22:53.700] time that we have currently or that
[02:22:55.500] we're going to have in the next 10 to 20
[02:22:56.760] years
[02:22:58.319] very good Mr grush
[02:23:00.720] um you've been able to answer in great
[02:23:02.580] detail on certain questions and then
[02:23:04.319] other things you say you're not able uh
[02:23:06.899] to respond to can you just explain where
[02:23:09.180] you're Drawing the Line uh what's the
[02:23:11.460] basis for that yeah based on my dopser
[02:23:13.680] Security review and what they've
[02:23:16.200] determined that is unclassified
[02:23:18.899] I see so you're answering any questions
[02:23:21.600] that just call upon your knowledge of an
[02:23:23.880] unclassified questions but anything that
[02:23:26.700] relates to classified matters you're not
[02:23:29.580] commenting on in this context in an open
[02:23:32.100] session but happy to participate in a
[02:23:33.840] closed session at the right level yeah
[02:23:35.160] okay
[02:23:37.200] um and Mr Graves you've said that there
[02:23:39.899] are dozens of fellow Pilots military
[02:23:43.260] Pilots are there also commercial pilots
[02:23:46.140] who've uh encountered the same the same
[02:23:50.760] kind of sightings that you described
[02:23:52.260] before
[02:23:53.340] they are similar Pilots commercial
[02:23:55.200] pilots have uh less range and less
[02:23:57.540] sensors to be able to reach out and look
[02:23:59.220] for objects over a wide swaths of
[02:24:00.960] airspace and so Pilots are seeing them
[02:24:03.600] commercial pilots RCM and they're
[02:24:04.859] typically closer and the range of what
[02:24:06.780] they're seeing is is pretty large
[02:24:08.880] what is the most Vivid concrete sighting
[02:24:13.020] with the naked eye
[02:24:14.720] of the objects that you described before
[02:24:17.280] the cube-like objects certainly I think
[02:24:20.040] the most uh Vivid sighting of that would
[02:24:21.780] have been near a near mid-air that we
[02:24:23.640] had at the entrance to our working area
[02:24:25.080] one of these objects was completely
[02:24:27.420] stationary at the exact entrance to our
[02:24:30.060] working areas not only geographically
[02:24:32.100] but also at altitude so it was right
[02:24:34.680] where all the Jets are going essentially
[02:24:36.240] on the Eastern Seaboard the two aircraft
[02:24:38.760] flew within about 50 feet of the object
[02:24:41.220] and that was a very close visual
[02:24:43.020] sighting and you were in one of the
[02:24:45.060] aircraft I was not I was there when the
[02:24:47.340] pilot landed he canceled the mission
[02:24:49.020] after and I was there he was in the
[02:24:51.180] ready room with all his gear on with his
[02:24:52.800] uh mouth open and I asked him what the
[02:24:55.260] problem was and he said he almost hit
[02:24:56.580] one of those darn things he said he was
[02:24:58.380] 50 feet away from it yes sir and his
[02:25:01.080] description of the object was consistent
[02:25:03.240] with the description you gave us before
[02:25:06.060] a dark gray or a black Cube inside of a
[02:25:08.340] clear sphere inside of a clear sphere
[02:25:10.920] yes um and with no self-evident
[02:25:14.640] propulsion system no wings no IR energy
[02:25:17.700] coming off of the vehicle
[02:25:19.500] um nothing tethering it to the ground
[02:25:21.000] and that was that was primarily what
[02:25:23.460] we're experiencing out there I'm over
[02:25:25.680] time thank you very much for your
[02:25:27.060] service and I yield back to Mr chairman
[02:25:29.100] very good Mr Burchette
[02:25:31.620] thank you Mr chairman this is for all
[02:25:33.359] three of you all starting with Mr grades
[02:25:35.520] why did you come forward on this issue
[02:25:37.979] I came forward because I felt that my
[02:25:40.080] colleagues did not have a way to
[02:25:41.399] mitigate the safety threat and I wanted
[02:25:42.899] to help them I was trained as an
[02:25:44.880] aviation safety officer by the Navy and
[02:25:47.280] this seemed it just it just felt right I
[02:25:49.500] felt like I had to help the folks that
[02:25:50.819] were still flying and dealing with this
[02:25:54.300] purely a sense of Duty I first sworn
[02:25:57.240] oath when I was a Cadet 18 years ago and
[02:25:59.160] I I still uphold that even out of the
[02:26:01.140] uniform Commander
[02:26:03.840] that was pestered by a friend and I
[02:26:07.500] asked why and he said you're the one
[02:26:09.300] person that they can't discredit and
[02:26:10.800] you'll add credibility to the New York
[02:26:12.300] Times article and so after about six
[02:26:14.580] times I said okay
[02:26:20.040] um
[02:26:20.819] this town isn't um made unfortunately by
[02:26:24.300] people like you all
[02:26:25.740] we thank you and I do want to also thank
[02:26:27.780] the people in the audience and people
[02:26:29.280] that are watching this it can't be
[02:26:30.660] people all over the world that have kept
[02:26:32.700] this issue alive you've endured
[02:26:34.380] criticism
[02:26:35.780] and derogatory remarks and we're trying
[02:26:39.540] to get to the bottom of it and so God
[02:26:40.979] bless y'all thank you all so much we
[02:26:43.380] really appreciate you guys and gals
[02:26:45.780] um
[02:26:49.680] that's why we need term limits y'all
[02:26:51.420] keep clapping those politicians just
[02:26:52.979] keep talking so
[02:26:54.920] let me ask you all how can the public
[02:26:57.240] contribute to UAP reporting and what
[02:26:59.640] Avenues you think are available to the
[02:27:01.200] public to report these sightings
[02:27:03.359] well right now I don't think there is a
[02:27:05.160] lot of public options for the every man
[02:27:07.680] to be able to report on this I think
[02:27:09.960] even for professionals that have sensor
[02:27:12.240] data that are seeing these on a regular
[02:27:13.979] basis they're still hesitant to come
[02:27:15.420] forward and so for the general public I
[02:27:17.700] think encouraging the conversations that
[02:27:19.680] we're having today looking for
[02:27:21.240] Technology Solutions that can be
[02:27:22.680] distributed so the objective data can be
[02:27:24.840] gathered is the first place to go Mr
[02:27:26.819] garage I'll just touch on The
[02:27:28.859] Whistleblower side if it's I do
[02:27:30.600] encourage you know current former
[02:27:32.399] military intelligence community in
[02:27:34.080] Industry contractors to come forward in
[02:27:36.240] a legal way either through the IC or DOD
[02:27:39.540] or whatever the cognizant's ig's are
[02:27:42.420] um to lead you know lead you know join
[02:27:44.880] me in this discussion
[02:27:46.979] commander and I I guess I should say
[02:27:49.680] this for the record my daddy was
[02:27:51.840] United States Marine Corps First Marine
[02:27:53.819] Division so overall yes sir he was old
[02:27:56.760] school him and chesty puller on pillow
[02:27:58.620] so thank you brother wow yes um I'm not
[02:28:02.280] I'm not anything like my daddy he was
[02:28:04.020] incredible I'm very mediocre to say the
[02:28:06.600] least but go ahead you seem to be doing
[02:28:08.160] fine yeah uh for me uh you know I was an
[02:28:11.580] accident investigator so the biggest
[02:28:13.020] thing to learn and I think that
[02:28:14.040] Witnesses need to to do is one don't try
[02:28:16.920] and make the fish bigger than it was
[02:28:18.840] stick to the facts write it down and
[02:28:21.420] don't speculate what you think it is
[02:28:22.859] because old school your decision just
[02:28:24.240] write the facts down we can get all the
[02:28:25.979] facts together and we can start to
[02:28:27.060] investigate and get a real honest story
[02:28:28.560] instead of it was this big thank you all
[02:28:31.140] and I want to thank everybody we made
[02:28:32.580] history today
[02:28:33.840] Mr chairman I yield
[02:28:36.180] thank you much Mr Garcia
[02:28:39.180] I think I know now we're going to be
[02:28:40.500] making some closing uh remarks and so I
[02:28:42.479] just wanted to say a few things first uh
[02:28:44.399] to our Witnesses I want to thank all of
[02:28:46.260] you for uh for being here with us today
[02:28:47.880] uh I know that um it takes a lot a lot
[02:28:50.460] of Courage
[02:28:51.660] um you're telling
[02:28:52.920] um a really important information to
[02:28:54.660] this committee and I just want to thank
[02:28:55.740] you also for your all three of your
[02:28:57.720] service to our country
[02:28:59.340] um I also want to just note that today's
[02:29:00.960] hearing
[02:29:02.280] um was both important but also serious
[02:29:04.319] and I want to thank our subcommittee
[02:29:07.319] chairman Mr groffman I think for for
[02:29:08.819] running a very fair and substantive
[02:29:10.859] hearing I do want to thank the committee
[02:29:12.780] staff on both sides for the amount of
[02:29:15.600] work that it took to put this hearing in
[02:29:17.460] place
[02:29:18.240] um and certainly to all the members that
[02:29:19.500] have been involved in this issue prior
[02:29:21.720] to prior to the hearing I also want to
[02:29:24.479] note for our Witnesses and for the
[02:29:26.100] public that I'm I'm a freshman member of
[02:29:28.380] Congress and I've only been here for
[02:29:29.580] seven months but this is by far the most
[02:29:31.800] bipartisan conversation and discussion
[02:29:35.520] that I have seen happen in the Congress
[02:29:37.740] and I think that a topic of this
[02:29:40.859] significance as it relates to our
[02:29:42.240] national security as it relates to
[02:29:44.520] information that we're trying to gather
[02:29:46.020] for the for the for the American public
[02:29:47.939] uh does bring people together and I
[02:29:50.280] think that's been really great uh to see
[02:29:52.859] um I think it's also important to note
[02:29:54.359] for the public we today in our hearing
[02:29:56.280] we had on our side also both are full
[02:29:59.840] ranking member which is Mr Raskin and
[02:30:02.640] our vice ranking member which is Miss
[02:30:04.460] ocasio-cortez uh both here at our
[02:30:06.720] hearing I think it shows the importance
[02:30:08.160] and seriousness that our side of the
[02:30:10.620] aisle is taking to this important
[02:30:12.600] hearing but also the broader issue as it
[02:30:15.240] relates to working with our Republican
[02:30:17.220] counterparts on this committee I want to
[02:30:20.420] additionally add that I think and I
[02:30:22.680] encourage I think it's really important
[02:30:24.060] that we have and continue these
[02:30:26.040] discussions and these hearings clearly
[02:30:28.439] there's a lot of information that we
[02:30:30.060] don't know but it's also very clear that
[02:30:32.580] we have to continue our investigation
[02:30:34.140] and accountability on asking the right
[02:30:36.420] questions and ensuring that they're part
[02:30:37.979] of the public record one thing that was
[02:30:40.439] important today is some folks might
[02:30:42.780] wonder you know why are we asking
[02:30:44.399] questions that might already be out
[02:30:45.840] there or that have been asked before
[02:30:47.160] it's important that they're asked and
[02:30:49.080] put into the public record as it relates
[02:30:50.640] to this committee and so I want to thank
[02:30:52.020] you for
[02:30:53.040] um you know answering some questions
[02:30:54.060] multiple times I know not just in maybe
[02:30:56.340] meetings you had with some members but
[02:30:58.380] also here in in the public
[02:31:01.140] let me also just add an additional note
[02:31:03.479] that it's important also that our
[02:31:06.840] um our friends in the media and those
[02:31:08.580] that are not just reporting on this
[02:31:10.080] hearing but that reporter on this topic
[02:31:12.300] that may in the future the media has an
[02:31:14.399] important role uh in this process and
[02:31:16.979] it's very important that the media
[02:31:18.240] engages does independent investigation
[02:31:20.760] and reports on not just what happened
[02:31:23.640] today but what they what they see
[02:31:25.740] independently as what has happened
[02:31:27.479] around uaps in the broader community
[02:31:30.120] that is also an important
[02:31:33.060] um public benefit that we have in trying
[02:31:35.580] to get the information and the facts as
[02:31:37.380] it relates uh to this
[02:31:39.780] let me also just say finally that as a
[02:31:42.479] as a teacher and an educator in a long
[02:31:45.420] time
[02:31:46.460] a long time teacher and researcher that
[02:31:49.560] I also really believe in following facts
[02:31:51.899] in doing your homework and making sure
[02:31:54.720] that you follow science uh as we as we
[02:31:58.080] try to get as much information as
[02:31:59.100] possible and so I want to thank you all
[02:32:00.359] for for agreeing to do that today
[02:32:02.660] transparency is a Cornerstone of
[02:32:04.740] government we live in a vast Galaxy a
[02:32:08.399] lot of unanswered questions and thank
[02:32:10.140] you all for being here today Mr chairman
[02:32:13.080] thank you
[02:32:14.819] um I'd like to one more time thank Mr
[02:32:17.819] Merchant Ms Luna for bringing this to
[02:32:20.040] our attention it's a topic that has
[02:32:22.260] interest me since I was in school it was
[02:32:25.500] a very Illuminating uh hearing obviously
[02:32:28.740] I think several of us are going to look
[02:32:30.600] forward to getting some answers in a
[02:32:33.240] more confidential setting I assume some
[02:32:36.060] legislation will come out of this
[02:32:38.359] uh I
[02:32:41.280] I'm sure I apologize Mr chairman I need
[02:32:44.040] to compliment the folks in my office
[02:32:45.899] that did a lot of the work on this of
[02:32:48.000] Rachel and Noah sitting behind me here
[02:32:50.040] they're very quiet and humble but if
[02:32:52.080] without them this thing would not have
[02:32:53.460] come off like it did so I apologize
[02:32:55.340] thank you
[02:32:57.180] um I think we're going to want to look
[02:32:58.800] into what we can do to make more of this
[02:33:01.080] information public
[02:33:03.060] I think there's certainly a time period
[02:33:05.160] after which it should always be made
[02:33:06.660] public and people have been concerned
[02:33:08.700] about these issues like I said since I
[02:33:11.160] was in high school
[02:33:13.080] um
[02:33:13.920] but in any event like to thank everybody
[02:33:16.680] who was here sticking through through
[02:33:18.899] the entire hearing without objection the
[02:33:21.600] members will have five legislative days
[02:33:23.220] to submit materials and to submit
[02:33:25.260] additional written questions for the
[02:33:26.640] witness Witnesses which will be forward
[02:33:28.680] to the witnesses for their response if
[02:33:31.080] there's no further Business Without
[02:33:32.520] objection the subcommittee stands
[02:33:34.920] adjourned