"The CIA Spy Who Reported a UFO: A Closer Look" — the 1977 NUFORC recording (here suddenly)

Source: YouTube channel "here suddenly," a documentary examining a 1977 recording of a call to the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC — founded in Seattle in 1974 by Robert Gribble) from a self-described CIA pilot reporting a UFO he encountered during a flight, plus the channel's new findings on the case.
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVtzitdGvs0 (2023-08-31; 37:36).
Captured: 2026-07-10 via agy (Antigravity CLI + Gemini Flash), speaker-diarized on the video (600s chunks). The narrator is machine-labeled "Speaker 1"; the NUFORC operator on the recording is correctly labeled "Robert Gribble"; the caller is "Speaker 2". One turn mislabeled "Richard Doty" is an agy name-hallucination (Doty is not part of this recording) — verify any name against the video.
Analysis: ../../topics/the-evidence-question

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[Speaker 1, 0:00] The National UFO Reporting Center, also known as NUFORC, was founded in Seattle in 1974 by Robert Gribble. The center's been collecting first-hand accounts of UAP sightings for almost half a century now, and for its first two decades, reports came in primarily via NUFORC's private telephone hotline. Most callers were referred to NUFORC by either the FAA, the military, or law enforcement agencies around the United States. Each call was recorded and logged by Gribble, who also briefly interviewed each witness about their encounter. Now, in this video, I want to take a closer look at one of these phone calls in particular. The call came in on December 6, 1977. The caller said he was a pilot who had just finished a night flight from Tokyo to San Francisco, with a stop in between at Honolulu. He was calling to report something anomalous he'd encountered in the sky between Tokyo and Hawaii. I want to make it clear that the audio you're about to hear was not a radio call in the air. It was a private phone call between two individuals, recorded by Gribble for research purposes. It's a fascinating conversation, and while it's not short, I encourage you to stick it out as there are quite a few interesting details spread throughout. Let's give it a listen.
[Robert Gribble, 1:14] [UFO] Reporting Center...
[Speaker 2, 1:15] Yeah, are you part of the Air Force?
[Robert Gribble, 1:17] No, sir.
[Speaker 2, 1:18] Umm... if I tell you something, will it do any good, or is anyone, you know -- will it accomplish anything?
[Robert Gribble, 1:24] This is a private scientific research organization, and we're gathering all the information we can on this subject.
[Speaker 2, 1:31] Oh, you give it to the government, or...?
[Robert Gribble, 1:33] No, it's used for private research.
[Speaker 2, 1:36] Well, has it helped any in the past?
[Robert Gribble, 1:39] Oh, yes.
[Speaker 2, 1:40] Oh, I mean, are you starting to see any patterns or anything?
[Robert Gribble, 1:43] Oh, we've seen several patterns for many years.
[Speaker 2, 1:47] Oh. Okay, well, I'll tell you what I saw then you can tell me if it's worth anything to you.
[Robert Gribble, 1:51] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 1:52] Do you want to ask questions, or should I just tell you?
[Robert Gribble, 1:53] Just go ahead and describe what you saw.
[Speaker 2, 1:55] Okay, I'm a... uhh... I'm not even supposed to be telling you this, but I fly for the CIA. I'm a reconnaissance pilot.
[Robert Gribble, 2:01] Uh-huh.
[Speaker 2, 2:02] And I just came from Tokyo. I just landed about, uh... about 10 minutes ago. And about halfway between, I'd say about halfway in a straight line between Tokyo and Hawaii --
[Robert Gribble, 2:15] Uh-huh.
[Speaker 2, 2:16] I was about halfway, I'm not sure. I was out of radar contact, just on my own alone there, but I was still within radio contact. And this -- and this -- ah, is it a full moon? I don't know if it's a full moon or not, but it's very bright out there in the ocean. And this thing came up to me. No wings. About double the length of my airplane -- I was flying the Phantom F-4 11 --
[Robert Gribble, 2:37] Uh-huh.
[Speaker 2, 2:38] -- but double the length, which would be about 45 feet. Round shaped, uh, not circular, more triangular. But, uh, no... no bottom and no top, all, you know, equidistant sides of the triangle. And they weren't sharp, uh, they were sort of rounded-off edges. And the ends of it were flat, and... no noise, no wings, no thrust, no windows, no, uh... you know, nothing which, uh, would give it reason to fly.
[Robert Gribble, 3:13] No appendages of any kind?
[Speaker 2, 3:14] Nah, nothing.
[Robert Gribble, 3:15] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 3:16] And on the sides of the Phantom -- I don't know if you're that familiar with them -- but they -- we do have, uh, very high intensity spotlights which are -- those are the fuselage lights on the side of an aircraft, they're used to -- when you're loading up bombs at night at the runway, you turn them on so the guys can see so they can put the bombs underneath them.
[Robert Gribble, 3:34] Yes.
[Speaker 2, 3:35] And so I turned the lights on the side, and it was there, it wasn't my imagination.
[Robert Gribble, 3:40] Did the light actually reflect off this thing or illuminate it?
[Speaker 2, 3:43] No, it didn't reflect. It was a porous material, probably... Well, it looked like sponge rubber, is what it looked like. I -- but it was not metallic.
[Robert Gribble, 3:49] Uh-huh.
[Speaker 2, 3:50] You could see pores in it. You couldn't see pores, but it looked like, uh... maybe asphalt would look from a distance, something like that.
[Robert Gribble, 4:00] What I mean is, did that light actually illuminate it?
[Speaker 2, 4:02] No, it just sort of went ahead and hit it.
[Robert Gribble, 4:05] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 4:06] Didn't bounce off.
[Robert Gribble, 4:07] How close did this thing get?
[Speaker 2, 4:09] The closest it got was about... 70 feet from the wings -- now, I have radar, and it was on radar, and, uh, the image doesn't, you know, it wouldn't reflect that close, but I -- it got up to about 50 feet from the left wing, and then, uh, as far about 200 feet, and it stayed there for about a half an hour.
[Robert Gribble, 4:31] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 4:32] This was Mach 2.2, so roughly, you know, 1,900 miles an hour.
[Robert Gribble, 4:37] Did you see this as it was coming in toward you?
[Speaker 2, 4:39] I didn't see him come up on me, no. I just sort of looked over and it was there. And then I looked and looked and looked, I thought, "Well, it's just, you know, a shadow or something," so I thought I would turn on all the lights on that side. And it was definitely there, I could see the dimension, I could see the top and the bottom and the end of it. The dimensions of the height I'd say were, um... oh, I'd say probably 10 feet. 10 feet by 10 feet.
[Robert Gribble, 5:03] Was this thing laying flat, or was it so it had the apex up?
[Speaker 2, 5:06] It had the apex -- it always had the apex up, but the -- it would slowly rotate. And the apex, I think in all the time it was there, it started from the apex being up to the apex completely rotating around, and it took about 15 minutes to do it.
[Robert Gribble, 5:21] I see.
[Speaker 2, 5:21] It would move a little bit, stop, move a little bit, stop, move a little bit and stop. It didn't look like that was necessary for flight. It looked like they -- I think they just, I think it was just turning for -- I don't know why, but it wasn't necessary for flight, you could tell that.
[Robert Gribble, 5:35] And did it maintain the same position in, uh, relation to you while it was doing this?
[Speaker 2, 5:39] More or less, yeah, I'd say. But it -- it didn't stay close to us very long. It only stayed 50 feet for about a couple of minutes. It stayed just out of real good sight most of the time. It seemed -- and I might sound crazy -- but they seemed to know what was good sight and what wasn't for me. And I have perfect vision, 20/20. And I'm a captain in naval intelligence, but I've been working for the CIA for the last two years.
[Robert Gribble, 6:01] Did you get any buffeting off of this?
[Speaker 2, 6:03] No, none. No, uh... no buffeting, no turbulence, nothing.
[Robert Gribble, 6:08] How about, uh, instrument interference?
[Speaker 2, 6:11] They were perfect.
[Robert Gribble, 6:12] Okay. Were you in contact with any ground stations for radar check?
[Speaker 2, 6:14] Uh, there's no radar in that area. I tried three times to see if -- I was in communications with somebody and asked if there was aircraft in my area that was, you know, maybe a little off course. But the closest aircraft to me was 400 miles away, they said. And I said, 'You're absolutely positive?' and they said, 'Yeah.' And there was two radar ships, but they were both out of range. And oddly enough, he disappeared right when -- when I -- this guy said, 'Well, you'll be in range in about three minutes.' And about a minute after that, this guy pulled away.
[Robert Gribble, 6:48] Okay. Did you get the impression you were being observed?
[Speaker 2, 6:49] I think they -- I think they were more interested in the airplane than they were in me.
[Robert Gribble, 6:54] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 6:55] But I did have that impression, yeah. I also had the impression that they knew what was going on. Man, I know it sounds -- sounds a little nutty, but no one else seems to care about it. I've been flying all my life, I know what an airplane is and what it isn't. And there's not that many airplanes that can go as fast as that at that altitude, first of all. You know, 2.2 is pretty fast.
[Robert Gribble, 7:15] You bet. Did you have any unusual physical or mental sensations while all this was going on?
[Speaker 2, 7:21] No.
[Robert Gribble, 7:23] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 7:24] The only thing that sort of bothers me is I haven't slept for about 30 hours, but that's not any big deal for me, I've done it a lot before. I'm just -- I just was coming from, um... from two other missions, and I just hadn't got a chance to sleep, I just want to get home, so... I've been flying a long time, but like I say, I've done that a lot, so it's nothing -- you know, I've been able to do that before, so...
[Robert Gribble, 7:44] Okay. And you would definitely say that the surface of that, or the texture of the surface, was pitted?
[Speaker 2, 7:50] Yeah, not big holes, but it was rough.
[Robert Gribble, 7:53] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 7:54] It wasn't metallic.
[Robert Gribble, 7:55] What was your altitude?
[Speaker 2, 7:56] Flight level Five-One-Zero. I did climb a little bit to see what sort of -- I was curious, so I climbed up to 60,000 feet almost instantly at that -- I don't know if you're familiar with that plane, are you a pilot?
[Robert Gribble, 8:09] No, sir.
[Speaker 2, 8:10] Well, that plane can climb very fast. It's one of the best planes we have. Like, its actual top speed is classified. But anyways, I gave it full power and, uh... put the nose up to 60,000 feet, and there's only maybe eight or ten other aircraft in the whole world that can keep up with that. And this thing kept up with no strain at all, you know. I mean, no effort at all and kept right next to me. And he started to move almost instantly when I did, like he knew I was going to do that.
[Robert Gribble, 8:37] Moved right along with you?
[Speaker 2, 8:38] Yeah, no problem at all. And when he left me -- I went up to 60,000 feet and sort of stayed there for a little while and put it into a dive to see if I could outrun him. And from 60,000 feet to about 49,000, I got it up to about three-point-something Mach, which is really movin'. He stayed right up with me with no problem at all. And then the guy said, "Well, you'll be within radar range in about three or four minutes." And about a minute after that, he pulled away from me going forward at at least triple the speed with no effort at all. I mean -- I mean, no acceleration. He just was there, then he was a speck, and then he was gone.
[Robert Gribble, 9:14] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 9:14] At the same altitude.
[Robert Gribble, 9:15] You remember the time on that?
[Speaker 2, 9:17] Well, this was about... I'd say 12 hours ago -- no, about 10 hours ago.
[Robert Gribble, 9:23] Okay. And how long did that whole event take place?
[Speaker 2, 9:24] I'd say altogether about half an hour -- 20 minutes, half an hour.
[Robert Gribble, 9:29] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 9:30] I did get the time, but the time was, uh... Korean time. I can't remember whether I'd -- it would be an hour off if I even gave you the time, but it was just -- I can't remember if it was 4:00 AM or 4:00 PM, it was one or the other, Korean time. I can't remember if I reset the clock or not when I left Korea.
[Robert Gribble, 9:47] Okay, is there any chance of getting your name?
[Speaker 2, 9:48] Yeah. Umm, no, wait a minute, wait a minute... umm...
[Robert Gribble, 9:56] Anything in case we want to get back to you.
[Speaker 1, 10:00] You can get to my commanding officer, and he can get to me. But I'm not really supposed to tell you, I'm not even supposed to tell you I was doing this.
[Robert Gribble, 10:07] Uh-huh.
[Speaker 1, 10:08] But uh, my commanding officer's name is... and he's the Chief of Naval Intelligence at the Pentagon. You know, I'm always in contact with him. He's my superior at the...
[Robert Gribble, 10:23] That would be just sent to him, care of the Navy department?
[Speaker 1, 10:26] No, care of Office of Naval Intelligence. Umm... Admiral Collins. Uh, Pentagon, Washington, D.C.
[Robert Gribble, 10:36] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 10:37] But the main thing I want to tell you is that this thing had no, you know, like... you can sort of tell if an aircraft is really working to keep up with you speed-wise... I mean, it sort of has characteristics. But this had no effort at all keeping up with me, and there's no lag. I mean, they can accelerate or decelerate as fast as they want to. Go up and down as fast as they want to. But not— it defied all the laws of aerodynamics. There's no reason for it to fly.
[Robert Gribble, 11:04] Okay, when this thing pulled away from you was it high speed?
[Speaker 1, 11:08] Yeah, it was next to me, and within 10 seconds it was a speck, and—
[Robert Gribble, 11:15] A speck on the radar.
[Speaker 1, 11:16] The radar screen I had is about— it has a 150 mile range. I can tell you the speed exactly. It took it, um, less than 10 seconds to get off the radar range. Less than 10 seconds to go 150 miles. I saw it going across the radar range. And then I— then we have a— on the radar you can, umm... There's three modes: there's 150 miles, there's 250 miles, and 500 miles. And so the speed on the 500 mile range— I upped the range, from 150 to 500... and the time it took me to flip the switch, which was another three seconds, they'd already gone past the 500 mile range, 'cause it wasn't on the radar anymore. Which means it had already gone through that other ring. You can imagine a circle, a 500 mile circle around you. That's what it's like.
[Robert Gribble, 12:01] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 12:02] And we have Intelligence Radar, which is the best you can get. I mean, it— you can— it can pick up a skydiver 400 miles away and, you know, a free-falling skydiver, it will pick up on our radar.
[Robert Gribble, 12:14] Did this thing leave any trail as it took off?
[Speaker 1, 12:17] No, we have, uh, Hawker heat-sensing missiles. And the heat-sensing missile has a computer which can track the exhaust of a jet. The exhaust of a jet stays in the sky the same way a wake in water stays in water. You can track it the same way, well, that computer was on too, and there was no thrust, no heat, no energy coming from this.
[Robert Gribble, 12:42] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 12:43] This thing will sense heat up to 20 miles away at that altitude and there was no heat coming out of this. And it's very sensitive also. I mean, you could start up a gasoline engine, you know, in a car 20 miles away from this thing and turn on the missile, it'll find the heat and blow it up. That's how accurate it is.
[Robert Gribble, 13:02] Okay, did you get a good solid return on your radar?
[Speaker 1, 13:05] Perfect, yeah.
[Robert Gribble, 13:07] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 13:08] Which surprised me, but, yeah it was perfect.
[Robert Gribble, 13:10] Okay, I can tell you that they, uh, just from the research and the databank information that we keep, that the triangular-shaped object is becoming quite common.
[Speaker 1, 13:24] Someone else has seen it, you mean? Someone else has seen it?
[Robert Gribble, 13:28] Oh yes, the triangular-shaped object has been seen many times. I'm a little surprised that you didn't see some kind of colored light system on it, because—
[Speaker 1, 13:37] No lights.
[Robert Gribble, 13:38] No lights, okay. But, uh, they're getting to be quite a common object reported by witnesses.
[Speaker 1, 13:45] You have any idea where they come from?
[Robert Gribble, 13:47] Oh no. The— those associated in the field of ufology are kicking around all kinds of theories. Some think they're from outer space, and some think they're some sort of a time traveler or something coming from another dimension or a parallel universe. There's—
[Speaker 1, 14:05] So I'm not the only one that's seen these things.
[Robert Gribble, 14:08] Oh yes, yeah, they've been seen at close range by ground witnesses.
[Speaker 1, 14:13] Yeah well... do you have a magazine or anything you print?
[Robert Gribble, 14:18] We put out a publication periodically to keep people up on the latest events.
[Speaker 1, 14:25] Could I receive that?
[Robert Gribble, 14:27] Oh, sure.
[Speaker 1, 14:29] Could you send it to my brother, would that be okay?
[Robert Gribble, 14:31] Sure.
[Speaker 1, 14:32] Umm okay, why don't you send it to...
[Robert Gribble, 14:37] Sure, will do.
[Speaker 1, 14:39] You know, I don't know if it helped any to tell you this, but the people at the approach control of the Navy didn't, they didn't seem to care.
[Robert Gribble, 14:46] Was this in Honolulu?
[Speaker 1, 14:48] Well, Honolulu approach control, Honolulu, anyway they didn't seem to care.
[Robert Gribble, 14:52] Uh-huh.
[Speaker 1, 14:53] And the same thing in San Francisco.
[Robert Gribble, 14:56] Okay, did you get our numbers from the people in San Francisco?
[Speaker 1, 14:59] No, Honolulu.
[Robert Gribble, 15:00] Honolulu, okay. Well I think that the people that are associated with the flight controls, the FAA and so forth, they, they've been hung up, you know, given so much responsibility in this field, and that's given them such a headache over the years, they just, they're trying to get it off of their back. Just seems like every time the FAA gets in the press associated with UFO sightings, then these people at the various FAA facilities are hounded by the public and answering, they're doing more time answering the phone, uh, in relation to UFOs than they are doing taking care of their job.
[Speaker 1, 15:37] Yeah, yeah. I wanted to speed up and get around him and see what the other side of this thing looked like, but I couldn't outrun him. He could slow down and speed up as fast as I could. A Phantom can go from 2.2 Mach to, uh, 50 miles an hour in about 10 seconds. That's how fast you can slow down if you wanted to. And I tried that, and he slowed down just as fast. But there's really two airplanes that can keep up with the Phantom. There's no Russian airplanes that can. So, I— either it's one of ours or it's from somewhere else. But like I said, there's no reason for it to fly. There's no energy coming out of it. No heat, no power source, nothing.
[Robert Gribble, 16:19] Yeah, a lot of scientists that are working on this feel that these things are associated with some kind of a technology which has a laws of physics completely different from our own.
[Speaker 1, 16:30] Well, has anyone ever reported seeing one up close and touching it?
[Robert Gribble, 16:34] Oh yes, this is not a common thing. Close approaches are common, but having the opportunity to touch one is not. But it has happened.
[Speaker 1, 16:45] And what'd it feel like?
[Robert Gribble, 16:46] Well, all of those that we have on record claim that it appeared to them to be a very solid or metallic object of some kind.
[Speaker 1, 16:56] Some day one of them has to land and talk to somebody, right?
[Robert Gribble, 16:59] Well, there's claims of that too. But unfortunately, there's just no physical evidence to back it up. And that's what the scientific community wants right now. There's a mountain of statistical evidence in relation to this subject, plus a lot of good photographs, and there's some really some good films around, and, and qualified witnesses and testimony who, you know, have seen these at close range. But the scientists, the scientific community in general, they want physical evidence, which seems to be very hard to come by.
[Speaker 1, 17:32] Well, I'm glad to know I'm not crazy, at least somebody else has seen what I have, so...
[Robert Gribble, 17:36] Well, we sure appreciate the report.
[Speaker 1, 17:38] Okay, well, thanks very much.
[Robert Gribble, 17:39] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 17:40] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 17:41] Yeah, I still remember the first time I heard that call because it just struck me as pretty compelling evidence that pilots truly are encountering strange things in our skies. I mean, assuming the caller is telling the truth, it's really the exact kind of evidence you want, which is a detailed account from a highly trained observer. I've always been especially fascinated by the caller's description of the craft's surface, describing it as looking like sponge rubber or like asphalt would look from a distance. There have been many reports of dark grey craft over the decades, but there haven't really been that many accounts that offer this kind of specific detail about the surface texture. We also get a pretty detailed description of the craft itself, though I'm going to talk more about that in just a bit. Before we go any further, though, I want to play you another recording I stumbled onto while conducting research for this video. It's a call the center received two months before the call we just heard. This one came in on October 20th, 1977, and don't worry, it's significantly shorter than the previous call. Let's give it a listen.
[Robert Gribble, 18:42] UFO Reporting Center.
[Speaker 3, 18:44] Yeah, umm, I got your number from L.A. Center.
[Robert Gribble, 18:47] Yes, sir.
[Speaker 3, 18:47] And they said you might be interested in something I saw.
[Robert Gribble, 18:50] You bet we would.
[Speaker 3, 18:51] Okay, umm... I own my own jet. I own a Lear, umm, Lear 35.
[Robert Gribble, 18:56] Yes.
[Speaker 3, 18:57] And, uh, do you know where the Thermal VOR is?
[Robert Gribble, 19:00] Yes.
[Speaker 3, 19:01] Okay, we were just there about two hours ago, and at flight level four-three-zero. And uh, this might sound nuts to you, but there was something—I mean, not very far away from us, for about ten minutes, about double the size of a 747. It was, uh, brown, cigar-shaped. No thrust, no wings, no cockpit. Umm, had no trouble at all moving. And we saw it off in the distance. It's not a full moon tonight. We saw it off in the distance, and there was no lights on it, and we weren't sure what it was. And as it got closer, we saw that it was, you know, something.
[Robert Gribble, 19:39] Yes.
[Speaker 3, 19:41] And umm... He followed us along, he, he—he got close to us and we asked the—the center what that target was, and they said, "There's no target there." And we said, "Yes, there is a target," and they said, "No, there's no target." And so we asked them to switch onto the primary radar, you know, which could pick up targets without a transponder, and they did, and there's still no target.
[Speaker 1, 20:00] And uh... he uh, or it was, uh... right next to us for about 10 or 15 minutes.
[Robert Gribble, 20:07] Okay. What was your altitude?
[Speaker 1, 20:09] 43,000.
[Robert Gribble, 20:10] Okay. And what was your destination?
[Speaker 1, 20:13] Uh, San Francisco.
[Robert Gribble, 20:15] I see, okay.
[Speaker 1, 20:16] Flew from Panama to San Francisco.
[Robert Gribble, 20:20] Okay, now, did this — Were you looking at something that was lighted or were you looking at a solid object surrounded by light?
[Speaker 1, 20:28] No light, all we could see was a reflection off the moon.
[Robert Gribble, 20:30] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 20:31] A dim outline, no lights.
[Robert Gribble, 20:33] Was there any question in your mind that this was metallic?
[Speaker 1, 20:36] It wasn't metallic. 'Cause we, on the wings — we have on the wingtips of this airplane, we have, uh, ground clearance lights which shine out and they shine up. And so when you're going and taxiing around an airport, you can see to the end of the wings. We turned on those lights, and there was no reflection, I mean it wasn't — we could see the skin for maybe about 30 seconds. We see the skin, and it wasn't metal.
[Robert Gribble, 21:01] Uh-huh.
[Speaker 1, 21:02] And it was like, uh, foam rubber. Something that was porous. But we only saw it for a second, it was a clear night, but the moon wasn't very full.
[Robert Gribble, 21:09] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 21:10] And then as soon as he got within range, he — he was going parallel to us, and he sort of got a little further away. He stayed about 50 feet from us. I'm not — I'm serious, 50 feet. And uh, 'cause I was a fighter pilot in Korea, and I know, you know, distances.
[Robert Gribble, 21:26] How about interference with the instruments or radio?
[Speaker 1, 21:29] None. And we didn't really see him come up on us. We saw him in the distance for a little bit, but — we weren't sure what it was. The only reason we even knew what it was because — are you a pilot?
[Robert Gribble, 21:38] No, sir.
[Speaker 1, 21:39] Okay, well, on the back of a jet or all any, you know, jet aircraft there's a red rotating beacon which is required, and — you know, out of the corner of the eye, you see it reflect off the wing every time it revolves, but it started to not reflect the way it had been. And the reason was because the thing had come, you know, it was interfering with the light, and that's how we even noticed — we wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for the — it was different on the wing, the reflection of our beacon.
[Robert Gribble, 22:07] Right.
[Speaker 1, 22:08] So uh. That's how we noticed it. And then we thought it was just darkness, we didn't think it was a shape, and then it got closer and it was a shape. And we're absolutely positive that, both my co-pilot and myself saw it.
[Robert Gribble, 22:20] How long did it maintain that 50 foot distance from you?
[Speaker 1, 22:23] Well, it was near there for about 15 minutes. It was only within 50 feet for about 10 minutes.
[Robert Gribble, 22:27] Okay. Did you actually see this object move away, out of sight?
[Speaker 1, 22:30] Yeah.
[Robert Gribble, 22:31] Okay, which direction was it moving?
[Speaker 1, 22:33] Ahead of us, at probably triple our speed. No acceleration problem, no — no build up of speed. It was just at our air speed to, I mean almost —
[Robert Gribble, 22:44] Instantaneous?
[Speaker 1, 22:45] Instantaneous.
[Robert Gribble, 22:46] Okay, what were you traveling at the time?
[Speaker 1, 22:47] Point eight two. You know — you know what that means? Point eight two that's —
[Robert Gribble, 22:50] Mach.
[Speaker 1, 22:50] Mach, right.
[Robert Gribble, 22:53] Okay, could I get your approximate location again?
[Speaker 1, 22:55] Uh, 23 miles north of the Thermal VOR.
[Robert Gribble, 23:00] Can I have your name, please?
[Robert Gribble, 23:03] About what time did this occur?
[Speaker 1, 23:04] About two hours ago.
[Robert Gribble, 23:06] Two hours, okay sir. If we need any additional information, can we feel free to communicate with you anytime?
[Speaker 1, 23:12] It's a lot easier in writing. It's almost impossible to call me.
[Robert Gribble, 23:16] Okay. Well, we sure appreciate your reporting this. And if we come up with any additional information as to what you'd seen, why, we'll communicate with you.
[Speaker 1, 23:25] Yeah, what will you do with the information?
[Robert Gribble, 23:28] Well, okay, this goes into research. Now we'll gather all the data that we can on this particular report, then it goes through a data reduction system and that data goes into the data bank that's used in our research program and relating to the field of ufology.
[Speaker 1, 23:44] Okay. Well, I can assure you this was not an airplane. It was too maneuverable and too fast for — and also they — it wasn't — they didn't see him on radar, which, surprised me, we al — we have also in-cockpit radar, we have weather radar. And we had it turned on and there was nothing there.
[Robert Gribble, 24:00] Still nothing there, okay. Did this thing maintain its density during the entire sighting? Or did it change its glow or brightness at all?
[Speaker 1, 24:08] No glow, no brightness, just reflection of the moon.
[Robert Gribble, 24:10] Didn't change at all.
[Speaker 1, 24:11] No.
[Robert Gribble, 24:12] Okay.
[Speaker 1, 24:13] I think the closest consistency would be like a — maybe — it looked like a brownie, sort of, you know, I couldn't see the color, but it looked like a porous, like styrofoam or something. But brown — well, I don't know if it's brown, I think it's brown or black in color. The color that we both of us saw for an instant was sort of a greyish-brown. But it wasn't metal.
[Robert Gribble, 24:31] What, how many years you been flying?
[Speaker 1, 24:33] 25... 26.
[Robert Gribble, 24:35] Long time.
[Speaker 1, 24:37] I — I own a company of my own and we have our own — we have four jets of our own. And I fly myself every day. I was a pilot in Korea, and a pilot in Vietnam, and I worked for United as a — as a co-pilot for a couple of years.
[Robert Gribble, 24:49] All right sir, we sure appreciate your reporting this, and like I say, if we get any more on it, we'll let you know.
[Speaker 1, 24:53] Thanks a lot. Thank you.
[Robert Gribble, 24:55] Okay.
[Speaker 2, 24:56] Now some of you have realized it and some of you haven't, but both of these calls were made by the same guy, two months apart. I'm going to play a few short examples from both calls back-to-back that will hopefully drive this point home. Pay attention to how the voices match not only in tone and phrasing, but also in word choice.
[Speaker 1, 25:14] It was like foam rubber. Something that was porous. It wasn't metallic. It was not metallic. It was a porous material. Well, it looked like sponge rubber.
[Speaker 1, 25:24] No thrust, no wings. No wings, no thrust.
[Speaker 1, 25:28] At probably triple our speed, no acceleration problem. At at least triple the speed with no effort at all.
[Speaker 1, 25:34] San Francisco. San Francisco. San Francisco. San Francisco.
[Speaker 2, 25:39] It's the same guy. When I first started making this video, I was doing it in the hopes of bringing more attention to the call about the triangular craft, because I thought it might potentially be an important piece of data. But then I stumbled onto the other call and everything just sort of fell apart, which, if I'm being honest, was a bit disappointing. But it does explain why he so casually shared the fact that he was a naval intelligence officer working for the CIA, reporting directly to the Pentagon. I mean that's a pretty loose-lipped spy. Some of you may have also noticed inconsistencies in his accent at times. He was able to maintain a fairly nondescript accent for the duration of both calls, but there were a few random moments when an unmistakable northeastern US accent accidentally peeked through. Here's the accent he maintained for most of each call.
[Speaker 1, 26:25] We were just there about two hours ago. Just sort of looked over and it was there. And there was no lights on, and we weren't sure what it was.
[Speaker 2, 26:31] But by isolating a few of the places where he slipped, we get this.
[Speaker 1, 26:35] At flight level four-three-zero. 23 miles north. I'm serious, 50 feet. And it was on radar.
[Speaker 2, 26:41] Clearly a New England accent, maybe Boston or possibly Maine. Now, by itself, this doesn't really mean much. Lots of people intentionally work to minimize their regional accents. But we can say with some certainty that for whatever reason, he was doing his best to obscure his original accent, and he just didn't quite pull it off all the way. But having figured out the calls were fake, I was now faced with a new and intriguing question. Why? Why would this guy do this? The natural first response is simply to say, well, he's a prank caller, there's really nothing to discuss here. But something about that explanation doesn't seem to sit quite right. The calls were essentially the exact same story with minor alterations to certain details. If he was a simple prank caller spinning spur-of-the-moment tales for fun, why not craft an entirely different story? Why was he so intent on this specific set of details being shared with Gribble? The more I looked at it, the more I began to suspect something else was going on. Now it's just speculation, but I think it's quite possible this guy may have been a disinformation agent. We know disinformation agents exist, and perhaps the most infamous of them all was Richard Doty, who was an intelligence officer for the Air Force's Office of Special Investigations in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
[Richard Doty, 27:59] And one of the jobs of a counterintelligence officer is what the general public refers to as disinformation. Counterintelligence officers are trying to protect the secrecy of of what we're doing in reverse engineering of a of a craft or uh developing some kind of special weapons from the craft or some other technology. So for instance if you're driving along some some place close to a test range such as Highway 93 in Nevada, and you see something flying out there uh that is exotic to you or not known to you, you can immediately think it's either some highly classified object that we developed, or it might be an extraterrestrial craft. So depending on which way the pendulum swings, so to speak, we'll try to convince you one or the other that what you saw is is actually a UFO to protect the real project that we're working on, which is maybe a reverse engineering. It would be one of our crafts, but we're trying to convince you it was an ET. Now, it also works the other way around, when you actually see a UFO and we know it's a UFO, we know it's an extraterrestrial craft, we're going to try to convince you that it's one of ours, it's something we're developing. So, hey, be a patriotic American and and just be quiet about what you saw. Don't don't don't spread it around.
[Speaker 2, 29:31] So could the mystery caller have been a counterintelligence agent, similar to Doty? One thing we can say is that he was an absolutely skillful liar. I mean the first time I heard the call about the triangular craft, I just totally bought it. I honestly thought his tone and pacing felt genuine. And both calls were sprinkled with just enough jargon and specialized language to make them feel authentic. He seems to have had a background in aviation, or at least was knowledgeable enough about it to discuss it convincingly. His references to specific...
[Speaker 2, 30:00] Technical elements such as Hawker heat-sensing missiles and intelligence radar may suggest that he did indeed have a military aviation background. At the very least, he seemed more informed than your average run-of-the-mill prank caller, especially in the pre-internet era.
[Speaker 2, 30:14] Assuming for the moment that this caller was a disinformation agent, is it possible for us to deduce any useful information from what he says? What was his goal with these calls? And who was his intended audience?
[Speaker 2, 30:25] Gribble explained that the data wouldn't be shared with anyone, that it would simply end up in his database for research purposes. And yet, the guy called twice to tell essentially the same story with just a few details altered. What was he hoping to accomplish? Perhaps the caller was hoping the information would travel beyond Gribble, possibly by ending up in NUFORC's newsletter, thereby disseminating the details into the UFO research community at large.
[Speaker 2, 30:49] Another possible intended target, though, was the Russian intelligence community. It's not far-fetched to suspect NUFORC's phone line may have been tapped by the Russians. After all, any strange craft being seen in American skies might actually have been top secret experimental aircraft being tested by the US military, and of course the Russians were after every bit of potential data regarding America's secret inventory, as well as the activity of any ET or NHI craft in the area.
[Speaker 2, 31:16] Tapping Gribble's phone line would have provided a steady stream of near real-time sighting reports from the US, a potential source of valuable intel for the Russians. If the mystery caller suspected NUFORC's line was being monitored, he may have called not only to speak to Gribble, but also to anyone eavesdropping on their conversation.
[Speaker 2, 31:35] As far as the message he was trying to convey, it's obvious from both calls that he had a clear agenda and that certain details needed to be stressed. He was pushing the idea that seasoned US pilots were witnessing unidentified craft with no visible means of propulsion, that were capable of instantaneous acceleration and speeds of at least three times faster than our fastest jets. And maybe most importantly, craft that had a surface that wasn't metal, but was porous, like sponge rubber. This was clearly an important detail to him, as it was similarly conveyed in both accounts, even if the details of the craft themselves differed.
[Speaker 2, 32:08] In fact, I would say this description of the surface was perhaps the most important detail he was trying to convey, along with the craft's insane capabilities.
[Speaker 2, 32:16] In both calls, he also took steps to firmly establish himself as a reliable witness. In the October call, he cast himself as a military veteran with decades of experience who had flown in both Korea and Vietnam, but who now commands his own personal fleet of jets and flies every single day.
[Speaker 2, 32:33] By the December call, he had spruced up his resume a bit and was now a captain of naval intelligence, running reconnaissance missions for the CIA for the past two years. He made sure to specify clearly that he reported directly to none other than the director of naval intelligence, the highest-ranking officer within the ONI at the Pentagon, a man, he said, he was in constant communication with.
[Speaker 2, 32:55] The point of all this was to establish himself as a military intelligence man with a security clearance and access to secrets. And if even he doesn't know what this thing is, well, maybe it's not a US craft after all.
[Speaker 2, 33:07] And this may be the key to unlocking the entire purpose of these calls. Remember what Richard Doty said: part of his job was convincing people that experimental military craft were actually extraterrestrial craft. Is that what was happening with these calls? And if so, might that imply that the US possessed exotic craft capable of unprecedented feats of maneuverability?
[Speaker 2, 33:30] Was the caller's December description of a triangular craft a genuine attempt at describing an actual vehicle in the US secret inventory? Something similar to the alleged TR-3B?
[Speaker 2, 33:42] Assume for a moment that America had developed such craft, possibly reverse-engineered from recovered NHI hardware. They wouldn't have wanted the Russians to know they had accomplished this, since maintaining secrecy would have given the US a tactical advantage. And yet, there was a chance of it eventually being spotted by someone. Perhaps it even had been spotted, so US intelligence agents took steps to plant the idea that not only were these strange craft also being spotted by the Americans, but even US military intelligence agents with high security clearances were concerned about it and didn't know what they were.
[Speaker 2, 34:14] The message may have been: if you see gray craft that look like foam rubber, well, it isn't the Americans, because they don't know what it is either. It probably belongs to the others. And for all we know, that idea may have been even more terrifying to the Russians than the idea of it being American.
[Speaker 2, 34:30] It's worth noting that while the caller's aviation knowledge seemed pretty solid, there are a couple of inconsistencies. For example, regarding his plane, he said:
[Speaker 1, 34:39] I was flying the Phantom F-4 11.
[Speaker 2, 34:41] Now, setting aside the slightly nitpicky objection that it's technically an F-4 Phantom and not a Phantom F-4, I can't really find any reference to an F-4 11 anywhere. It looks like it never existed, though if I'm wrong, please do correct me. But the F-4's full name was the F-4 Phantom II. That's a Roman numeral II. Suppose for a moment that the caller didn't actually have a military aviation background, but was reading from information that had been provided by someone who did. In that case, he might have easily misread the Roman numeral II as an 11, especially if the information was handwritten.
[Speaker 2, 35:18] Also worth noting is the fact that the distance from Tokyo to Hawaii is around 3,800 nautical miles, but the maximum range of an F-4 is only around 1,700 nautical miles, and far less than that if he was burning the kind of fuel required to reach Mach 3. So the math just doesn't really work out there.
[Speaker 2, 35:35] Another inconsistency. He says he reports to the Chief of Naval Intelligence, and in 1977, this would have been Rear Admiral Donald P. Harvey. On the tape, the name of his superior officer has been redacted, but later on, he appears to say Admiral Collins, though it's not entirely clear if he's saying M Collins or Admiral Collins.
[Speaker 1, 35:54] Admiral Collins.
[Speaker 2, 35:55] Now, there were a few bits deleted from this section of the tape, so it could be that something else originally preceded that name. Either way, it's odd that the caller should be so knowledgeable about so many details, like the Office of Naval Intelligence, the address, the internal hierarchy, etc., but then stumble on this one verifiable detail. Could it have been intentional? Also, why did he say he was calling from San Francisco in both calls? Caller ID didn't exist yet, so he could have said he was calling from anywhere. Why keep that detail consistent? Could it be that he actually was calling from San Francisco, and was concerned that anyone eavesdropping on the line might have the ability to confirm that? Or was there some other reason San Francisco was important to the story and needed to be maintained?
[Speaker 2, 36:38] Of course, this could all be completely off base, and the real explanation might be far less intriguing. Maybe he was just a very diligent prankster who loved to roleplay. Or maybe he was just really passionate about the concept of a craft that looked like foam rubber, and didn't want to stop telling his story. But I just can't shake the feeling that there was more to the calls than that. There are other possible scenarios that I didn't cover here, and likely others I haven't even thought of at all. But let me know what your take is in the comments down below. What do you think was going on with this guy? Was he a disinformation agent, a simple prank caller, or was something else going on?
[Speaker 2, 37:16] I do have more videos on the way, so if you're not subscribed yet, please do so, and be sure to hit the bell so you'll be notified when I upload. Thanks for watching, and I'll be back.