If You Still Think UFOs Are Fake, Watch This - David Grusch Interview

• Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRO5jOa06Qw
• Relevant passage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRO5jOa06Qw&t=371s
• Channel: Jesse Michels
• Publication date: 2023-09-11
• Recording date: likely 2023-07-27, based on the opening reference to the previous day's congressional hearing
• Speakers: David Grusch, Jesse Michels, and collaborators
• Extraction: YouTube captions via /code/scripts/youtube_transcript.py --timestamps
• Sourced: 2026-08-03

[00:00:01.584] Three men who previously served in
[00:00:03.044] the military are set to speak publicly
[00:00:04.754] about what they saw in the sky
[00:00:06.965] and heard behind closed doors.
[00:00:08.633] All right.
[00:00:09.384] One more - guy in the white tan suit.
[00:00:14.806] There is David Grusch,
[00:00:15.974] who's a former intelligence official.
[00:00:17.559] He has knowledge of a covert government
[00:00:20.729] program to recover
[00:00:22.564] crashed alien spacecraft.
[00:00:24.315] Do you solemnly swear or affirm
[00:00:26.443] that the testimony you are about to
[00:00:27.652] give is the truth,
[00:00:28.361] the whole truth,
[00:00:28.987] and nothing but the truth,
[00:00:30.238] so help you God?
[00:00:32.615] That is David Grusch,
[00:00:34.367] a former Afghanistan
[00:00:35.577] combat veteran and 14 year
[00:00:37.537] high ranking intelligence officer.
[00:00:41.708] In 2019, he was tasked by the Pentagon
[00:00:44.586] to investigate UFOs
[00:00:46.463] as part of the Unidentified
[00:00:47.922] Anomalous Phenomena Task Force.
[00:00:49.924] I had no interest in,
[00:00:51.217] you know, UFOs or whatever,
[00:00:52.510] but I thought it'd be kind
[00:00:53.553] of an interesting thing
[00:00:54.471] to see what was going on.
[00:00:55.722] During his investigation, Grusch
[00:00:57.599] started to uncover a program
[00:00:59.309] that was being systematically hidden
[00:01:01.061] from him,
[00:01:01.686] the American public
[00:01:02.771] and our elected representatives.
[00:01:04.522] We're done with the cover up
[00:01:05.815] and we're going to get
[00:01:06.399] to the bottom of it dadgum it.
[00:01:07.776] A program
[00:01:08.443] whose mandate was to find
[00:01:10.236] and retrieve crashed UFOs
[00:01:12.781] and attempt to rebuild them
[00:01:14.115] into functional vehicles
[00:01:15.325] that humans can fly.
[00:01:17.077] And I'm sitting there
[00:01:17.994] and I'm like, okay, well,
[00:01:19.245] this is a thing.
[00:01:20.413] Thanks to new UFO
[00:01:21.581] whistleblower protections,
[00:01:22.999] Grusch gave comprehensive documentation
[00:01:25.543] about these programs to the inspector
[00:01:27.796] general in the summer of 22.
[00:01:29.798] He had brought
[00:01:30.381] people on the secret
[00:01:31.716] UFO programs directly
[00:01:33.551] to meet the inspector
[00:01:34.552] general's team
[00:01:35.553] and had even given the staff
[00:01:37.180] the names of the aerospace
[00:01:38.556] companies involved in these programs
[00:01:40.475] and the locations
[00:01:41.559] where the UFOs
[00:01:42.435] were ostensibly being kept.
[00:01:44.145] I filed my complaint.
[00:01:45.313] I told them who to interview.
[00:01:46.940] And, you know,
[00:01:47.690] they ultimately were like, Holy shit,
[00:01:49.109] this is credible.
[00:01:50.026] In June of 23,
[00:01:51.277] he outed himself to the public,
[00:01:52.987] giving News Nation
[00:01:54.155] and The Debrief exclusive interviews.
[00:01:56.324] Do we have bodies?
[00:01:57.700] Do we have species?
[00:01:59.619] So naturally,
[00:02:01.079] when you recover something
[00:02:02.163] that's either landed or crashed,
[00:02:03.623] sometimes you encounter dead pilots.
[00:02:07.877] Then in late
[00:02:08.586] July, he testified before
[00:02:10.004] Congress in Washington, D.C.
[00:02:11.840] The hearing was a wild moment
[00:02:13.633] in history.
[00:02:14.551] Yup, there
[00:02:15.260] I am with Ammar Kandil
[00:02:16.719] from the second
[00:02:17.595] best YouTube channel online,
[00:02:19.347] Yes Theory.
[00:02:20.265] If you want instant inspiration
[00:02:22.267] and exposure to untold human stories
[00:02:24.352] across the world,
[00:02:25.728] throw them a subscription
[00:02:26.938] and stay tuned
[00:02:27.730] for their UFO documentary,
[00:02:29.274] including Dave, coming soon.
[00:02:31.442] I've known Dave for about two years
[00:02:33.862] when we were introduced
[00:02:34.988] by a mutual friend
[00:02:35.989] who had served on the air
[00:02:37.031] Force with him
[00:02:37.782] and through many a phone call,
[00:02:39.367] he's put up with my wild speculations
[00:02:41.619] on the truth behind UFOs.
[00:02:43.246] Sometimes I'm
[00:02:43.872] like hanging up the phone,
[00:02:45.123] you call me, and I'm like,
[00:02:46.166] I don't know about this guy.
[00:02:47.250] I think he’s really losing his grip.
[00:02:53.715] During the lead up to the hearing
[00:02:55.300] and in its aftermath,
[00:02:56.551] we were granted exclusive access.
[00:02:59.804] We actually held the first
[00:03:01.097] and only public
[00:03:02.182] hearing with Dave and 20 young
[00:03:03.850] Yes Theory fans in Washington, DC,
[00:03:06.144] after the congressional hearings.
[00:03:08.980] We traveled with him,
[00:03:10.273] hiked the mountains of Colorado,
[00:03:11.983] got covered in dust on ATVs,
[00:03:15.987] hung out with some llamas,
[00:03:17.405] What’s the name of the llama?
[00:03:18.406] Playboy. Playboy.
[00:03:21.910] And of course, had a long
[00:03:23.244] form conversation.
[00:03:24.412] We discussed the history of covert
[00:03:26.497] UFO research
[00:03:27.540] programs, their connection
[00:03:28.958] with Robert Oppenheimer
[00:03:30.251] and the Manhattan Project,
[00:03:31.544] why presidents and elected
[00:03:33.254] officials may have been shielded
[00:03:34.964] from the UFO secrets in the past.
[00:03:37.091] And, of course, his best theories
[00:03:39.344] as to how these UFOs fly,
[00:03:41.387] who their occupants are
[00:03:42.847] and why they're here.
[00:03:47.393] While you'll see a candid side of Dave
[00:03:49.395] that you've never seen before, he's
[00:03:51.314] still somewhat limited
[00:03:52.732] in what he can and can't say.
[00:03:54.651] I don't wanna get into specifics.
[00:03:56.527] I don't want to get into that.
[00:03:57.487] I can't really can’t
[00:03:58.321] go really beyond that.
[00:03:58.988] can't make a personal-
[00:04:01.783] if anything slips that
[00:04:02.951] wasn't pre-approved
[00:04:03.993] by the Defense Department,
[00:04:05.370] he could literally go to jail.
[00:04:08.206] But there's a lot of pretty insane
[00:04:09.874] new stuff he does say.
[00:04:11.501] The Manhattan Project,
[00:04:12.710] they were kind of the first blue book.
[00:04:14.504] Do you think Bob Lazar is full of shit?
[00:04:17.048] Have we made any agreements
[00:04:18.549] with any of the aliens?
[00:04:19.926] Do you have a sense of the species?
[00:04:23.388] And if you combine our opensource
[00:04:25.390] research with his revelations,
[00:04:27.517] you can actually piece together
[00:04:29.185] a sort of coherent picture
[00:04:30.853] of what's going on
[00:04:31.646] with UFOs and human attempts
[00:04:33.523] to reverse engineer them.
[00:04:35.525] Buckle up, I guess.
[00:04:36.901] So, without further ado,
[00:04:38.236] this is the atom
[00:04:39.237] bomb of American Alchemy episodes.
[00:04:41.531] It's been marinating for months
[00:04:43.574] and it was executed with the Manhattan
[00:04:45.535] Project style secrecy.
[00:04:47.287] All of the crew members
[00:04:48.204] weren't allowed to disclose
[00:04:49.455] what they were working on.
[00:04:50.581] But I'm so excited
[00:04:51.874] that it's finally dropping
[00:04:53.084] and you are here to see it.
[00:04:55.336] So get your radiation goggles on.
[00:04:57.130] Hit subscribe
[00:04:58.214] and brace yourselves
[00:04:59.674] for a brain dump of everything
[00:05:01.634] you've ever wanted to know
[00:05:02.760] about UFOs
[00:05:03.720] from today's American Alchemist:
[00:05:06.222] David Grusch.
[00:05:40.715] Hey, man.
[00:05:41.341] Hey.
[00:05:43.384] Crazy day.
[00:05:45.136] Yeah.
[00:05:46.679] So, what happened yesterday?
[00:05:48.181] I didn't read the news.
[00:05:50.558] My name is David Charles Grusch.
[00:05:52.268] I was an intelligence officer
[00:05:53.644] for 14 years.
[00:05:55.104] I was my agency's co-lead
[00:05:56.481] in unidentified
[00:05:57.315] anomalous phenomena and trans-medium
[00:05:59.650] object analysis,
[00:06:01.194] as well
[00:06:01.652] as reporting to the UAP
[00:06:03.196] Task Force, UAPTF, and eventually,
[00:06:06.532] once it was established,
[00:06:07.992] the all domain
[00:06:08.701] Anomaly Resolution Office, ARO.
[00:06:11.579] Why were you placed on the UAPTF?
[00:06:13.289] And UAPTF
[00:06:14.499] for the people that don't now
[00:06:15.541] is Unidentified
[00:06:17.001] Anomalous Phenomenon Task Force.
[00:06:19.253] The UAP
[00:06:19.796] task force
[00:06:20.338] director funneled the request
[00:06:22.131] through the ops center like, Hey,
[00:06:23.383] is there any intel officer for your,
[00:06:25.927] you know,
[00:06:26.386] your agency would be willing to
[00:06:28.846] be a representative on the task force
[00:06:30.765] to kind of
[00:06:31.099] fill that void with expertise
[00:06:32.934] from NRO and the Air Force.
[00:06:35.019] And my boss
[00:06:35.895] got the email, forwarded it to me,
[00:06:37.480] and he's like, do you want to do this?
[00:06:38.773] And I thought, well, I'm a reservist.
[00:06:41.692] Like,
I can put it on my performance report
[00:06:43.528] that I worked on like a task force.
[00:06:45.488] I thought it'd be kind of
[00:06:46.239] an interesting thing
[00:06:47.073] to see what was going on.
[00:06:48.491] When did you start to realize
[00:06:50.118] that you weren't just kind of looking
[00:06:52.161] at, you know,
[00:06:52.662] anomalous phenomena
[00:06:53.830] and trying to classify it in the air,
[00:06:56.124] But you were being sort
[00:06:57.542] of systematically lied
[00:06:58.751] to about an internal reverse
[00:07:01.170] engineering program
[00:07:01.963] within the government. Yeah. I mean,
[00:07:04.841] certainly going into it, I
[00:07:06.050] thought it was going to be, you know,
[00:07:07.635] air trash, some prosaic
[00:07:10.721] natural phenomenon.
[00:07:12.265] I remember sort of interviewing
[00:07:13.474] some military members
[00:07:14.392] that saw some really profound
[00:07:15.643] stuff like, you know, large,
[00:07:18.521] you know, triangular crafts,
[00:07:21.065] you know, football field size that,
[00:07:22.984] you know, hovered over them.
[00:07:24.193] And I was like, whoa,
[00:07:25.987] you know,
[00:07:26.320] And these people were very serious,
[00:07:27.905] very upset
[00:07:28.614] to actually divulge that,
[00:07:30.408] you know, a personal thing.
[00:07:32.743] You know, it's nothing classified.
[00:07:33.911] It was a personal observation
[00:07:35.079] they had on on a drive to work.
[00:07:37.165] And then,
[00:07:38.082] you know, one thing led to another.
[00:07:39.375] I had, you know,
[00:07:39.876] certain colleagues of mine
[00:07:41.127] that I’d known for years
[00:07:42.837] approached me, you know,
[00:07:44.172] close the door in my office
[00:07:45.673] and was like, look,
[00:07:46.883] you need to know about some other stuff
[00:07:48.509] you guys are not getting access to,
[00:07:51.095] you know, and,
[00:07:52.096] you know, kind of led down this -
[00:07:53.264] Why do you think they talked?
[00:07:55.183] Why do you think they spoke to you?
[00:07:56.601] Yeah, I think a lot of these guys were
[00:08:00.771] you know, they've kept the
[00:08:01.606] secret for so many years. They knew me.
[00:08:03.900] They knew what I was looking into.
[00:08:06.152] You know,
[00:08:06.611] we reported to the
[00:08:07.695] deputy secretary of defense
[00:08:08.863] and Congress at the time
[00:08:10.281] with the UAP task force.
[00:08:11.616] And
[00:08:12.783] and I think they wanted some change.
[00:08:14.410] At least that’s
what they espoused to me is
[00:08:16.996] why do you think they want to change?
[00:08:18.080] You know, they
[00:08:18.581] they felt that
[00:08:19.165] they were kind of limited
[00:08:20.500] in bringing people in.
[00:08:22.793] The support they were getting.
[00:08:24.670] Their treatment was harsh sometimes,
[00:08:27.965] and I guess they weren't
[00:08:28.633] really feeling the love anymore.
[00:08:30.301] What's the first moment where you saw
[00:08:32.053] irrefutable evidence
[00:08:34.096] that what you're dealing with is, is
[00:08:36.224] truth is reality?
[00:08:37.350] I mean, there were certain
[00:08:39.310] military cases.
[00:08:40.811] You know,
we were analyzing that I,
[00:08:42.522] I just really couldn't
[00:08:43.481] explain in a prosaic fashion.
[00:08:45.608] What can you tell me about these craft?
[00:08:47.860] Why do you know it's exotic?
[00:08:49.320] Based on the very specific properties
[00:08:52.823] that I was briefed on,
[00:08:54.033] you know, isotopic ratios
[00:08:55.660] that would have to be engineered
[00:08:57.161] for it to be
[00:08:59.121] at those levels.
[00:09:00.206] And then, of
[00:09:00.706] course, you know,
[00:09:01.457] read some, you know,
[00:09:02.416] intel reports
[00:09:03.084] that were provided to me
[00:09:04.001] in that regard.
[00:09:04.752] And, you know,
[00:09:05.878] I took that
[00:09:06.671] and I
[00:09:07.171] went to the agencies
[00:09:08.798] that wrote those reports
[00:09:10.216] and asked for access.
[00:09:11.259] And when I
[00:09:11.884] when when they deny you access
[00:09:13.511] then you know it's a thing.
[00:09:14.387] So it's it's
[00:09:15.846] and that's what happened to me time
[00:09:17.473] after time over a couple of years.
[00:09:19.100] So like,
[00:09:20.184] there wasn't a singular moment
[00:09:21.978] where you're like,
[00:09:23.020] just open the folder and you go,
[00:09:25.147] What the fuck is that?
[00:09:26.399] It was kind of like
[00:09:27.817] a slow burn culmination
[00:09:30.069] as I was processing it,
[00:09:32.071] you know,
[00:09:32.905] allowing my world
[00:09:33.739] view to open and yeah,
[00:09:36.075] I don't know
if there was a singular moment.
[00:09:37.702] I think it was, you know,
[00:09:38.828] some of the really,
[00:09:39.495] really trusted
[00:09:41.122] high level people we talked to
[00:09:42.999] when they, you know,
[00:09:43.958] stared us straight in the face
[00:09:45.376] very seriously.
[00:09:47.253] And, you know,
[00:09:48.296] confirmed a lot of this information
[00:09:49.755] and the quality of people we talked to,
[00:09:51.966] if they ever go public,
[00:09:54.385] it'll blow your mind who we talked to.
[00:09:56.846] I was like, wow,
[00:09:57.388] I can't believe I'm talking to X,
[00:09:59.307] who's a really important person.
[00:10:01.225] And they're confirming
[00:10:02.101] these certain details
[00:10:03.436] and they're saying like, you know,
[00:10:04.937] we need to protect us at all costs.
[00:10:06.355] They're giving me kind
[00:10:06.897] of the whole speech about it.
[00:10:08.899] And I'm sitting there, it's
[00:10:10.026] like an out of body experience.
[00:10:11.319] I'm like, okay, well, this is a thing.
[00:10:17.325] I don't report to anybody
[00:10:18.909] and there is no plan.
[00:10:21.078] I'm not a part of some
[00:10:21.871] like slow drip disclosure or anything.
[00:10:24.165] If there is a plan, I'm
[00:10:25.541] totally unwitting and holy shit,
[00:10:27.460] they've like,
[00:10:28.210] controlled me in a very passive manner
[00:10:30.421] that is like masterclass,
[00:10:31.756] but yeah, I'm
[00:10:33.883] not a part of some weird shit,
[00:10:35.551] you know that.
[00:10:36.510] Did you ever, at any point
[00:10:38.304] try to suss out
[00:10:39.513] whether you were being lied to?
[00:10:41.015] Because all of these people
[00:10:42.266] are coming from the same programs
[00:10:44.435] and so presumably
[00:10:45.394] there's some level of coordination
[00:10:46.687] between them.
[00:10:47.313] So how do you kind of
[00:10:48.230] get through - Yeah.
[00:10:49.273] And just make sure that they're not
[00:10:51.734] meeting in some back room saying,
[00:10:53.110] you say this to Dave,
[00:10:54.028] I'll say this to Dave, you know.
[00:10:55.446] Yeah, no, for sure.
[00:10:56.280] So, like,
[00:10:56.864] I thought maybe
[00:10:57.490] it was like a joke or something.
[00:10:58.866] Maybe it was like a psy-op on me
[00:11:00.076] or something. I don't even know.
[00:11:01.911] And then, but the, you know,
[00:11:03.371] near 40 people
[00:11:04.288] we talk to a lot of the guys
[00:11:07.333] I've known my entire career and like,
[00:11:09.043] they wouldn't lie to me.
[00:11:09.960] I have like a friendship with them
[00:11:12.880] and for them
[00:11:13.464] to, you know,
[00:11:15.132] disclose to me that kind of stuff.
[00:11:16.759] And it ends up being a false,
[00:11:18.636] would have totally torpedoed
[00:11:19.845] the friendship.
[00:11:20.471] And I also went out of my way
[00:11:22.598] to find people
[00:11:23.224] who don't know each other either.
[00:11:24.684] And I had other
[00:11:26.936] high ranking
[00:11:27.520] colleagues of mine
[00:11:28.270] go talk to other people
[00:11:29.605] that I didn't even personally talk to.
[00:11:31.816] That group,
[00:11:32.400] of course,
[00:11:32.775] we took all that
[00:11:33.734] and I'm like all the people
[00:11:34.944] who conducted those interviews.
[00:11:37.029] I made them get interviewed
[00:11:38.322] by the inspector general
[00:11:39.699] because we're crossing our T's here
[00:11:41.951] because this shit is crazy.
[00:11:43.744] And I was
[00:11:45.746] I mean, you can never be perfect,
[00:11:46.706] but I mean, I was so frickin careful
[00:11:48.499] to make sure
[00:11:49.125] I wasn't getting fed some bullshit.
[00:11:50.751] If they were in coordination
[00:11:51.919] together on a disinfo campaign,
[00:11:53.462] holy fuck,
[00:11:54.213] I shouldn't even be an intel officer
[00:11:55.423] because I should have,
[00:11:56.132] you know, sniffed that shit out. So.
[00:11:57.967] In the last couple of years,
[00:11:59.844] have you had incidences
[00:12:01.846] that have caused you to be in fear
[00:12:03.639] for your life
[00:12:04.724] for addressing these issues?
[00:12:08.519] Yes, personally.
[00:12:10.479] There's a Chris Mellon story
[00:12:12.106] where he's
[00:12:12.940] supposed to meet
[00:12:13.816] with somebody on the program
[00:12:15.109] and he has the meeting all set up
[00:12:16.819] and two weeks before the meeting,
[00:12:19.071] he says that the guy just
[00:12:20.030] randomly has a heart attack.
[00:12:21.282] We were about two weeks
[00:12:22.825] away from meeting when he died,
[00:12:25.077] when he had a heart attack.
[00:12:26.495] What was the last
[00:12:27.246] special access program that leaked?
[00:12:28.873] They don't generally leak.
[00:12:30.082] People are like,
[00:12:30.458] Oh, dude, wouldn't it
[00:12:31.292] be broadly leaked or whatever?
[00:12:32.626] I'm like,
[00:12:33.335] as somebody who is super cleared
[00:12:35.713] to a lot of that conventional stuff
[00:12:37.548] over the years, stuff never leaks.
[00:12:40.009] Yeah, it doesn't come out.
[00:12:41.135] There are plenty of things
[00:12:42.303] that are pretty serious.
[00:12:43.387] They're broad
[00:12:44.930] that have never seen the light of day.
[00:12:46.932] Of course,
[00:12:47.475] like you're going to tell someone
[00:12:48.684] that their entire life
[00:12:49.935] and their family and their kids like
[00:12:51.687] everything is in danger.
[00:12:52.688] It's it doesn't feel too far
[00:12:54.565] fetched that
[00:12:55.065] someone will keep a secret,
[00:12:56.650] that if it threatens their life.
[00:12:58.611] Look, dude,
[00:12:59.111] you're not getting promoted.
[00:13:00.696] You're going to lose your job.
[00:13:01.822] You know,
the psychology of the typical career
[00:13:04.033] government worker, right?
[00:13:05.075] Stable paycheck, pension
[00:13:07.661] maintained clearance.
[00:13:08.954] So if any of that's threatened,
[00:13:11.624] you know, they're going to
[00:13:12.750] capitulate in most cases. Right.
[00:13:14.502] The threatening nature
[00:13:15.795] of some of their indoctrination
[00:13:17.296] where they're like, this is treason.
[00:13:18.839] You're going to Leavenworth
[00:13:19.840] if you ever tell anybody
[00:13:21.217] not in the program.
[00:13:22.301] And oh, by the way,
[00:13:23.135] what's the penalty for treason?
[00:13:24.345] Oh, right. Execution. Right.
[00:13:25.888] And I was like, well, of well,
[00:13:27.473] fuck it,
[00:13:27.807] I'll be the mouthpiece for you.
[00:13:29.475] I'll be the leader,
[00:13:30.976] I guess, and I will shepherd
[00:13:33.312] you privately to the appropriate people
[00:13:35.564] that could be a recipient
[00:13:36.565] of your disclosure.
[00:13:37.358] You don't have to go public,
[00:13:39.360] but I'll do the thing.
[00:13:41.946] I mean, you know, it's not just me
[00:13:44.406] that,
[00:13:45.241] you know, as
[00:13:46.158] come forward, really, because, I mean,
[00:13:48.369] Schumer, Rubio,
[00:13:49.829] all those guys are like, woke
[00:13:51.038] a bunch of freaking high level
[00:13:53.165] officers came to us
[00:13:54.959] and either they're crazy
[00:13:56.377] or this shit's real.
[00:13:57.419] Most of these people at some point
[00:13:59.088] or maybe even currently
[00:14:00.548] have held very high clearances
[00:14:02.132] and high positions
[00:14:03.008] within our government.
[00:14:03.968] And then Schumer was compelled
[00:14:05.261] to write
[00:14:05.594] that big 64 page amendment that talks
[00:14:09.139] no shit, non-human tech, recoveries
[00:14:12.518] and you have the majority leader who’s
[00:14:14.103] tight with the president
[00:14:15.187] putting out a law
[00:14:16.856] that will be signed here
[00:14:17.731] hopefully this fall
[00:14:18.607] that really puts the fucking executive
[00:14:21.151] in a bind. Yeah. So
[00:14:23.821] I don't
[00:14:24.488] think that that was done in a vacuum.
[00:14:28.450] I think the one thing
[00:14:29.201] that can get the left
[00:14:29.910] and the right together
[00:14:30.786] is bloat
[00:14:31.579] in the military industrial complex
[00:14:34.999] And you know, yeah, nobody likes that.
[00:14:36.500] I don't think members of Congress
[00:14:38.794] don't like getting the door
[00:14:39.670] shut on them either.
[00:14:40.462] So they want
[00:14:41.005] they want that information
[00:14:42.131] because they represent the constituency
[00:14:44.300] And that was the Matt Gaetz story.
[00:14:45.801] Several months ago
[00:14:46.760] my office received
[00:14:47.636] a protected disclosure
[00:14:49.096] from Eglin Air Force Base indicating
[00:14:51.307] that there was a UAP incident
[00:14:52.975] that required my attention.
[00:14:54.560] We were not afforded access
[00:14:57.438] to all of the flight crew,
[00:14:58.731] who was basically denied access
[00:15:00.399] to a crew
[00:15:01.483] that had seen kind of a
[00:15:02.401] diamond shaped formation of orbs.
[00:15:05.654] He should be fully clued into,
[00:15:07.573] if you know,
[00:15:08.449] it is terrestrial in origin
[00:15:10.159] because he's he's he's on the
[00:15:12.620] Armed Services Committee.
[00:15:14.413] If you could just name
[00:15:15.873] anything titles, programs, departments,
[00:15:19.793] regions, I'd be happy
[00:15:21.337] to give you that
[00:15:21.921] in a enclosed environment.
[00:15:22.963] I can tell you specifically.
[00:15:24.465] Thank you.
[00:15:25.257] Maybe in a
[00:15:26.342] if we could
[00:15:27.468] get in a confidential area SCIF
[00:15:30.095] we can talk about that.
[00:15:31.221] But unfortunately we were denied access
[00:15:34.058] to the SCIF.
[00:15:35.184] A lot of the narrative
[00:15:36.602] for the whole thing
[00:15:37.311] was that you were denied a SCIF.
[00:15:38.771] What does SCIF stand
[00:15:39.521] for just for people.
[00:15:40.564] It was a specialized
[00:15:42.024] compartmented information facility,
[00:15:44.151] which basically means
[00:15:44.985] that you guys
[00:15:45.402] would just get into a secure,
[00:15:46.570] secure place where you can share.
[00:15:48.864] Yeah, that's,
[00:15:49.698] you know, a facility
[00:15:50.574] that's accredited to talk at,
[00:15:52.576] you know,
[00:15:53.077] top secret, sensitive,
[00:15:54.203] compartmented information level.
[00:15:56.538] And yeah,
[00:15:57.247] the members are pretty incensed that
[00:15:58.832] I believe it was like
[00:15:59.625] they couldn't reserve a SCIF
[00:16:01.335] and then they couldn't
[00:16:01.877] give me a one time
[00:16:03.420] read on back into the right accesses.
[00:16:05.381] Since I left the government.
[00:16:06.632] Do you have any sense of why
[00:16:07.675] that was denied?
[00:16:08.550] I don't know.
[00:16:09.301] No, I don't really have insight.
[00:16:10.302] It was something they mentioned to me,
[00:16:13.055] you know, it was security or something,
[00:16:15.015] denied it.
[00:16:17.267] If you believe we have crashed craft,
[00:16:19.770] as stated earlier,
[00:16:20.813] do we have the bodies of the pilots
[00:16:22.648] who piloted this craft?
[00:16:24.775] As I've stated
[00:16:25.526] publicly already
[00:16:26.235] in my News
[00:16:26.652] Nation interview,
[00:16:27.653] Biologics came
[00:16:28.779] with some of these recoveries.
[00:16:30.155] Yeah.
[00:16:33.117] Were they,
[00:16:33.701] I guess, human or non-human biologics?
[00:16:36.912] Non-human.
[00:16:37.538] And that was the assessment of people
[00:16:39.289] with direct knowledge
[00:16:39.999] on the program I talked to
[00:16:40.916] that are currently
[00:16:41.542] still on the program.
[00:16:42.376] We had
[00:16:43.627] one sort of bombshell
[00:16:44.920] sound bite from the hearing
[00:16:45.963] as Congresswoman
[00:16:46.714] Nancy Mace asked you about biologics.
[00:16:49.216] Ross Coulthart in the News Nation
[00:16:50.884] interview asked you about pilots
[00:16:53.262] coming out of these crafts.
[00:16:54.847] Do you want to just speak to that
[00:16:55.931] a little bit?
[00:16:57.224] Yeah.
[00:16:57.558] I mean, it's
[00:16:58.142] it is a mind blowing side of it, right?
[00:17:00.936] It's a little easy to imagine,
[00:17:02.896] you know, an artifact or whatever.
[00:17:04.565] But when you
[00:17:05.774] start talking about,
[00:17:07.109] you know, the biological side of it,
[00:17:10.154] it really throws you
[00:17:10.946] for a loop psychologically.
[00:17:12.948] It did for me.
[00:17:13.907] And, you know,
[00:17:14.950] I talked to the people that, you know,
[00:17:16.285] were on that aspect of
[00:17:18.996] the program, if you will, And
[00:17:22.374] I mean, it comes with the territory.
[00:17:24.001] I mean, buckle up, I guess
[00:17:28.005] I call them pilots
[00:17:29.089] because that's like our vernacular.
[00:17:31.091] What they
[00:17:31.675] I don't know what their actual job was.
[00:17:33.093] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:33.594] Non-human intelligence. Yeah.
[00:17:35.262] But they had bodies.
[00:17:37.181] Yeah.
[00:17:37.514] I mean where they alive
[00:17:38.682] where they dead.
[00:17:39.475] I don't wanna get into specifics.
[00:17:41.351] Yeah I know a lot of that stuff.
[00:17:43.187] Out of curiosity,
[00:17:43.812] why are you allowed to say
[00:17:46.190] that NHI pilots came out of that craft
[00:17:49.443] but you can't.
[00:17:50.069] Well that's all I put
[00:17:51.320] in the pre-publication stuff
[00:17:52.863] I got approved. I mean, got it.
[00:17:55.032] I could go back and ask for more,
[00:17:56.950] but like I said earlier,
[00:17:58.452] man, like, yeah, not your,
[00:17:59.995] not your place, not your job.
[00:18:01.455] Yeah.
[00:18:01.872] And it's helpful
[00:18:02.414] context for the audience
[00:18:03.791] to realize that you literally
[00:18:05.167] have like these contours
[00:18:06.418] with when with, with
[00:18:07.544] like you have to operate within -
[00:18:08.587] any specific knowledge
[00:18:10.089] I garnered
[00:18:10.923] when I was
[00:18:11.590] on the other side of the door.
[00:18:13.509] If I want to talk about that publicly,
[00:18:15.469] everybody who
[00:18:16.845] has had a job like I have has to submit
[00:18:18.764] to a thing called DOPSR
[00:18:20.599] at the Pentagon, D.O.D.
[00:18:21.767] Pre-Publication and Security Review.
[00:18:23.894] You know,
even if it's about this stuff,
[00:18:25.437] like I know it sounds insane,
[00:18:26.688] but like, you literally
[00:18:27.606] have to say, like,
[00:18:28.357] this is why I want to talk about
[00:18:29.316] why do you think they approved it?
[00:18:30.609] Catch 22. Because.
[00:18:32.611] So they'd have to self-identify
[00:18:34.238] and highlight their concerns to redact.
[00:18:36.907] So the office,
[00:18:38.450] who would propose a redaction,
[00:18:39.827] say it's a three letter
[00:18:40.828] agency or whatever, Right?
[00:18:42.204] They’d have to be like this office
[00:18:44.248] objected to you saying
[00:18:45.541] crash retrievals.
[00:18:46.458] Here we're citing
[00:18:48.043] the security classification guide. No.
[00:18:50.462] And then you can litigate that, right,
[00:18:51.964] to get it unredacted
[00:18:53.215] if you think that's an inappropriate
[00:18:54.424] application of security,
[00:18:55.759] if it got redacted like that
[00:18:57.386] and it cited what organization
[00:18:58.971] and what security reason it is,
[00:19:01.390] I would just publish that.
[00:19:02.558] And then the public can under,
[00:19:04.309] you know,
[00:19:05.102] make its own interpretation, why,
[00:19:07.521] you know, the U.S.
[00:19:08.105] government's
[00:19:08.564] withholding information
[00:19:09.523] about that kind of thing
[00:19:10.357] and wanted to sequester my speech.
[00:19:12.609] So it's a catch 22
[00:19:13.610] honestly for them and damned
[00:19:15.279] if they do, damned if they don't.
[00:19:16.363] I just wanted to put enough out there,
[00:19:18.532] touch on all the most sensitive parts
[00:19:20.617] like the biologic side
[00:19:22.035] and like things
[00:19:22.578] that really need to come out.
[00:19:23.912] Yeah,
[00:19:24.580] but I don't want to overly disclose
[00:19:26.915] because it's not my job but enough to,
[00:19:30.419] you know, put the flag out there.
[00:19:32.045] Yeah, we need to elevate this,
[00:19:33.338] this is serious,
[00:19:34.798] some of the uncomfortable stuff,
[00:19:36.758] like the biologic stuff
[00:19:37.968] like I mentioned during the hearing.
[00:19:39.303] Yeah.
[00:19:40.137] You got to realize
[00:19:42.097] some baggage is coming with it
[00:19:43.515] besides, you know,
[00:19:44.558] the Indiana Jones, you know,
[00:19:45.767] warehouse thing that everybody thinks.
[00:19:50.105] Why do the
[00:19:51.064] politicians like
[00:19:51.857] why do people who are higher up
[00:19:53.859] feel like they need to hide
[00:19:55.152] like evidence or like,
[00:19:56.612] and just like the root cause?
[00:19:57.738] Like, why is this like a topic that's.
[00:19:59.698] Yeah,
[00:20:00.407] I mean,
I can only know what the mindset was,
[00:20:02.576] you know, multiple decades ago.
[00:20:04.328] And like anything in government,
[00:20:05.621] they're resistant to change.
[00:20:06.705] So this is the way we set it up.
[00:20:08.916] Remember, our trust in government
[00:20:10.375] was high
[00:20:10.751] back in the forties, postwar,
[00:20:12.252] and then also society was less secular.
[00:20:14.963] So there's you know, they're worried
[00:20:16.048] about the religious
[00:20:17.299] ontological shocks as well.
[00:20:19.885] And they never really developed
[00:20:21.553] a, we’ll call it, disclosure
[00:20:22.721] plan for what it's worth.
[00:20:23.805] And they just were like,
[00:20:24.890] this is the way it's been
[00:20:25.891] and we're going to keep it that way.
[00:20:27.476] And we don't want Russia and China
[00:20:29.436] to be exposed to any of this info.
[00:20:31.647] And, you know,
[00:20:32.105] we don't want to give them an edge.
[00:20:33.106] And fortunately, it's that kind of
[00:20:35.651] kind of low energy thinking.
[00:20:39.488] If you got to ask
[00:20:40.864] one question to ask someone
[00:20:42.866] who is not alive anymore
[00:20:46.161] that you feel could
[00:20:48.538] answer a lot for you,
[00:20:50.123] who would you pick
[00:20:50.791] and what would the question be?
[00:20:52.918] I would probably ask
[00:20:54.419] Sarbacher, Oppenheimer and be like,
[00:20:58.840] What was your thought process
[00:21:00.717] in the forties and fifties,
[00:21:03.136] you know, scrolling this away?
[00:21:04.388] I mean, besides overlaying
[00:21:06.014] the Manhattan Project secrecy,
[00:21:07.474] because Oppenheimer was the one
[00:21:08.892] who created the classification
[00:21:10.686] that included the UFO stuff.
[00:21:12.729] Oh, all those guys.
[00:21:15.607] The guys that were involved in
[00:21:16.900] Manhattan
[00:21:17.693] were overlaying
[00:21:18.485] the same ecosystem of secrecy
[00:21:20.445] in some of the same ways to
[00:21:23.407] protect stuff
[00:21:24.074] that they're protecting
[00:21:24.741] our nuclear secrets.
[00:21:26.785] If you read the definition
[00:21:28.954] of special nuclear material
[00:21:31.164] in the Public
[00:21:31.957] Atomic Energy Act of 1954,
[00:21:34.376] it basically states
[00:21:35.585] any material
[00:21:37.045] that releases
[00:21:37.921] any kind of atomic energy.
[00:21:39.506] That would be retrieved,
[00:21:40.716] crash material.
[00:21:41.633] So it's kind of a sneaky way.
[00:21:43.593] You know, it is
[00:21:44.177] if you actually read
[00:21:45.012] the Atomic Energy Act,
[00:21:46.346] if something is not a nuke,
[00:21:48.515] but it has radiological energy
[00:21:50.475] coming off it,
[00:21:51.310] you know, alpha, beta decay,
[00:21:52.686] whatever, same secrecy, same secrecy.
[00:21:57.649] Until now, we haven't
[00:21:59.067] really had an exact understanding
[00:22:00.736] of the mechanisms of UFO secrecy.
[00:22:02.988] We do get a few hints
[00:22:04.156] throughout history, though.
[00:22:05.365] In 1947,
[00:22:06.700] in the aftermath of frequent UFO
[00:22:08.744] sightings across the United States,
[00:22:11.121] Nathan Twining,
[00:22:12.205] the head of all aircraft
[00:22:13.415] development for the Air Force,
[00:22:14.916] wrote a famous letter.
[00:22:16.626] He writes that the UFO phenomena
[00:22:18.295] is something real
[00:22:19.546] and not visionary or fictitious.
[00:22:22.049] Everyone today
[00:22:23.133] focuses on this part of the now
[00:22:25.218] famous Twining memo
[00:22:26.470] that top brass at the Air
[00:22:27.971] Force is conceding the reality of UFOs.
[00:22:30.807] But the far more interesting
[00:22:32.434] part of the letter is the postscript,
[00:22:34.478] where he writes about the possibility
[00:22:36.313] of American programs
[00:22:37.647] trying to build crafts
[00:22:39.024] with these capabilities.
[00:22:40.484] He writes that any developments
[00:22:42.027] in this country along the lines
[00:22:43.570] indicated would be extremely expensive,
[00:22:46.031] time consuming,
[00:22:47.032] and at the considerable expense
[00:22:48.700] of current projects,
[00:22:50.077] and therefore,
[00:22:50.952] if directed, should be set up
[00:22:52.871] independently of existing projects.
[00:22:56.291] If you were
[00:22:56.958] the military industrial complex
[00:22:58.710] and had to keep a top secret UFO
[00:23:00.796] reverse engineering program
[00:23:02.464] fully shielded from elected
[00:23:04.049] civilian representatives
[00:23:05.300] moving in and out of government,
[00:23:07.094] which past programs
[00:23:08.345] might be your inspiration?
[00:23:11.515] The Manhattan Project.
[00:23:12.974] Manhattan Project.
[00:23:14.226] They were kind of the first blue book.
[00:23:16.019] You know,
they were getting UFO reports
[00:23:17.771] back in the day.
[00:23:18.480] There were some people I'm
[00:23:20.232] colleagues with that
[00:23:21.108] like their grandparents were actually,
[00:23:23.652] you know, the UFO report
[00:23:24.778] people on the Manhattan Project
[00:23:26.822] and I
[00:23:27.155] remember being told
[00:23:27.823] that I'm like, Really?
[00:23:28.782] Holy crap, that's crazy.
[00:23:29.950] You know,
there's like a whole other side of
[00:23:31.076] Manhattan project.
[00:23:32.619] This is a wild revelation.
[00:23:34.413] Blue Book was the Air Force's
[00:23:35.664] official program
[00:23:36.665] tasked with investigating UFOs
[00:23:38.542] in the fifties and sixties.
[00:23:40.001] But it was basically
[00:23:41.044] a propaganda mouthpiece
[00:23:42.337] for the Air Force,
[00:23:43.171] explaining away
[00:23:44.297] and downplaying the phenomena
[00:23:45.841] for the public.
[00:23:47.509] Here, Dave is saying
[00:23:48.260] that there might have been
[00:23:49.136] a real deeper program than Blue
[00:23:51.096] Book studying UFOs at the time.
[00:23:53.223] And it was probably very tied
[00:23:55.058] in with the Manhattan Project.
[00:23:56.768] Legendary French UFO
[00:23:58.270] researcher Jacques
[00:23:59.187] Vallee told me the exact same thing.
[00:24:01.565] Project Blue Book was the best
[00:24:02.983] they could do at the time
[00:24:04.693] because they felt
[00:24:06.403] they had a real project going on
[00:24:08.113] that was secret.
[00:24:09.156] The Manhattan Project
[00:24:10.407] would have custody of it,
[00:24:11.825] and then
[00:24:12.409] it would go into the
[00:24:13.743] Atomic Energy Commission,
[00:24:15.537] and then it would go
[00:24:16.538] into the Department of Energy,
[00:24:18.331] which has its own line of clearances.
[00:24:21.751] But where
[00:24:22.294] were these top secret
[00:24:23.336] UFO programs taking place?
[00:24:25.505] Well, the first hint
[00:24:26.465] we get might actually come
[00:24:27.883] from the quintessential UFO story,
[00:24:29.885] the Roswell crash in 1947.
[00:24:32.888] As the story goes, in 1947,
[00:24:35.557] mysterious debris
[00:24:36.725] from a crash was retrieved
[00:24:38.185] by a rancher named Mac Brazel.
[00:24:40.395] After collecting the wreckage,
[00:24:42.105] the Roswell Army
[00:24:43.190] Airfield issued a pretty insane
[00:24:45.609] press release
[00:24:46.735] stating that
[00:24:47.360] a flying disc
[00:24:48.320] had been retrieved from a local ranch.
[00:24:50.655] But within 24 hours,
[00:24:52.115] the military announced
[00:24:53.033] that the saucer
[00:24:53.742] had actually just been
[00:24:54.784] a weather balloon.
[00:24:56.953] Cut to 1978.
[00:24:58.663] Lieutenant Colonel
[00:24:59.539] Jesse Marcel said that this was all
[00:25:01.875] just a cover story
[00:25:03.502] to divert public attention
[00:25:04.961] away from the truth
[00:25:06.463] that the Roswell debris
[00:25:07.631] was extraterrestrial tech,
[00:25:09.257] which contained
[00:25:10.133] bizarre hieroglyphics
[00:25:11.801] and malleable memory metal.
[00:25:14.012] According to him,
[00:25:14.888] the materials
[00:25:15.555] were eventually taken
[00:25:16.598] to Wright-Patterson
[00:25:17.557] Air Force Base in Ohio.
[00:25:19.392] This actually makes sense.
[00:25:20.894] Wright Pat was the place
[00:25:22.354] that the military
[00:25:23.063] would take enemy equipment
[00:25:24.523] in order to reverse engineer it.
[00:25:26.525] In fact, just a few years earlier,
[00:25:28.902] the base was used
[00:25:29.861] to successfully reverse engineer
[00:25:31.780] a German pulse jet engine.
[00:25:33.823] When prominent elected government
[00:25:35.534] representatives would ask
[00:25:36.910] what was going on at Wright-Patterson,
[00:25:38.828] they would get shut down.
[00:25:39.996] It didn't matter who they were.
[00:25:41.623] Senators, presidential candidates,
[00:25:43.667] even presidents.
[00:25:44.834] If you didn't have a need to know,
[00:25:46.753] you were on the outside.
[00:25:48.588] I called Curtis LeMay
[00:25:50.257] and I said, General,
[00:25:52.842] I know
[00:25:53.385] we have a room at Wright-Patterson
[00:25:57.305] where you put all this secret stuff.
[00:26:01.309] Could I go in there?
[00:26:03.520] I've never heard him get mad,
[00:26:06.356] but he got madder than hell at me,
[00:26:08.066] cussed me out.
[00:26:09.985] Said, don't ever ask me that question.
[00:26:13.321] It's like, Well, what's going on?
[00:26:15.407] Why would General LeMay act
[00:26:16.366] like that to a sitting senator?
[00:26:17.742] So unless you're George H.W.
[00:26:19.661] Bush, Bush 41,
[00:26:20.745] who is director of the CIA
[00:26:22.747] as the president of the United States,
[00:26:24.583] you probably don't even know
[00:26:26.084] unless you unless you've
[00:26:28.044] done the blood oath
[00:26:29.087] and you were like the CIA director
[00:26:30.630] or something
[00:26:30.964] private previously,
[00:26:32.340] unless you have to stroke a pen,
[00:26:33.675] the sign like an executive order
[00:26:34.926] or something.
[00:26:35.635] Why would you have a need to know
[00:26:37.470] unless you literally,
[00:26:39.306] as the commander in chief,
[00:26:41.057] need to know it to make a decision?
[00:26:43.852] What else was housed
[00:26:45.061] at Wright-Patterson?
[00:26:46.021] Well,
[00:26:46.605] it would become a nuclear
[00:26:47.814] engineering test facility
[00:26:49.399] and an antigravity research center.
[00:26:51.943] It also was the site for Blue Book,
[00:26:53.987] the anti UFO psyop
[00:26:55.697] that the Air Force ran
[00:26:56.740] in the fifties and sixties.
[00:26:58.366] So when you're running a secret
[00:26:59.743] UFO program,
[00:27:00.910] you have people working on the UFOs,
[00:27:03.079] and then you have people working on
[00:27:04.456] throwing the public off the trail
[00:27:06.249] and basically ensuring
[00:27:07.584] that they have no idea
[00:27:08.752] what you're doing.
[00:27:09.586] The official Air Force
[00:27:10.754] reply has long been
[00:27:12.255] that there is no cover up.
[00:27:23.600] You know,
I've seen this at other
[00:27:24.476] conventional programs
[00:27:25.518] you compartment it so much, you know,
[00:27:27.020] some people don't know really
[00:27:28.146] what they're working on.
[00:27:29.564] Only the people that have
[00:27:30.482] the top level accesses can look down
[00:27:34.277] on all facets of the
[00:27:35.320] pyramid, as we say.
[00:27:36.696] And and that that hinders progress.
[00:27:39.157] And then certainly with this subject,
[00:27:41.201] when you're trying to
[00:27:42.661] crack an unknown unknown,
[00:27:45.497] that kind of obtuse security
[00:27:46.873] doesn't help either.
[00:27:47.666] When you say unknown unknown,
[00:27:49.000] you know, is it
[00:27:49.542] the USB drive to a caveman analogy
[00:27:53.004] where it's like the caveman
[00:27:54.172] doesn't know information
[00:27:55.423] theory, doesn't have a computer
[00:27:56.675] to plug the USB drive into,
[00:27:58.510] and we just don't even know
[00:28:00.220] where to start in terms
[00:28:01.054] of reverse engineering.
[00:28:02.055] Well, yeah,
I think it's like
[00:28:03.223] it's like other people have given
[00:28:04.599] the analogies are giving Galileo
[00:28:05.975] a TI-83 plus graphing calculator.
[00:28:08.978] They open it up
[00:28:09.688] and they see circuitry
[00:28:10.689] and they're like, well,
[00:28:11.189] what is even this?
[00:28:12.065] I don’t have a concept of a transistor.
[00:28:14.484] But even that
[00:28:15.443] or like a monkey with an iPhone.
[00:28:16.903] You kinda know how.
[00:28:18.363] Yeah.
If you open it up, sure,
[00:28:19.989] you're confused,
[00:28:20.865] but you kind of know
[00:28:21.658] how to press the buttons
[00:28:22.575] and you realize there's
[00:28:23.243] this graphical interface or whatever.
[00:28:25.036] That seems easier than caveman with
[00:28:26.871] a USB drive.
[00:28:27.706] So yeah. Like, where are we in that?
[00:28:29.708] Yeah, I mean, some of it is it's
[00:28:31.126] hard to gauge how far in advance it is
[00:28:34.254] because you're just assuming
[00:28:35.088] a certain linear progression.
[00:28:37.006] You know,
I think some of this is
[00:28:38.717] they made an asymptotal leap,
[00:28:40.593] you know
[00:28:40.969] put them over the edge
[00:28:42.095] to a different kind of plane
[00:28:43.513] of that's pretty fascinating -
[00:28:45.098] like a different timeline almost.
[00:28:46.725] If I was a betting man,
[00:28:47.559] some of this NHI - they’re
[00:28:49.686] similarly as advanced as us
[00:28:51.396] but they've just made the
[00:28:53.148] what is it, asymmetric evolution
[00:28:54.607] or whatever.
[00:28:55.024] They went a different path
[00:28:56.359] where we made
[00:28:57.402] nuclear weapons and stuff.
[00:28:58.778] They ended up making this like,
[00:29:00.071] civil propulsion kind of equivalent.
[00:29:04.200] Yeah.
[00:29:04.784] Discovery where
[00:29:06.369] they're able to do this now,
[00:29:07.662] but they're actually not
[00:29:08.788] that much more advanced than you and I.
[00:29:13.168] I always found interesting
[00:29:14.961] to the monolith
[00:29:16.254] in 2001, A Space Odyssey,
[00:29:18.339] which is this sort of thing
[00:29:19.716] placed on Earth
[00:29:20.675] that it inspires tech innovation.
[00:29:23.261] It's almost like
[00:29:24.012] John Mack
[00:29:24.763] would talk about
[00:29:25.972] a lot of these alien sightings
[00:29:27.390] being slightly more advanced,
[00:29:29.684] but barely comprehensible tech
[00:29:31.853] for the time,
[00:29:32.645] almost inspiring tech innovation.
[00:29:34.647] I often think of it
[00:29:36.441] as laying breadcrumbs in a direction.
[00:29:39.319] The communication could be
[00:29:41.237] you think you're really smart
[00:29:42.906] because you blew up
[00:29:44.908] a weapon down the road here?
[00:29:46.785] Now, you know, look at this.
[00:29:48.995] Right, right, right.
[00:29:51.414] It's just like, you know, we went from
[00:29:53.291] you look at our own human development,
[00:29:54.709] you know, we immediately,
[00:29:56.085] once we cracked the atom,
[00:29:57.837] I mean, holy crap,
[00:29:58.546] nuclear power, weapons,
[00:30:00.965] you know,
we went from,
[00:30:01.841] you know,
[00:30:02.675] orders of magnitude
[00:30:03.885] of energy extraction
[00:30:05.637] up to, you know, ten to the six tons
[00:30:08.431] of TNT equivalent.
[00:30:09.849] And that's kind of
[00:30:10.433] what we're talking about.
[00:30:11.643] It's like
[00:30:12.602] we're like one,
[00:30:13.686] you know,
[00:30:14.687] discovery away to,
[00:30:15.814] you know, maybe manipulate space time
[00:30:18.274] or whatever.
[00:30:19.734] Based off of the information
[00:30:21.945] that you've been privy to,
[00:30:23.029] is there any indication that these
[00:30:25.365] UAPs are interested
[00:30:26.407] in our nuclear technology
[00:30:27.700] and capabilities?
[00:30:28.618] Yes. By external observation, sure.
[00:30:31.454] That could be a fair assessment.
[00:30:32.497] Yeah. Yes.
[00:30:34.833] The nuclear UFO connection is deeper
[00:30:37.418] and more bizarre
[00:30:38.378] than you can ever imagine.
[00:30:42.590] You remember that vice story
[00:30:44.425] that ran in 2022 about a town in Japan
[00:30:47.053] that's obsessed with UFOs?
[00:30:48.763] Well, it's a place called Lino,
[00:30:50.598] and it's right next to Fukushima,
[00:30:52.475] where a 2011 earthquake
[00:30:54.060] triggered a famous
[00:30:54.978] nuclear power meltdown.
[00:30:56.479] Or take this incident in 1994, 62
[00:31:00.108] elementary school
[00:31:01.025] kids at the Arial International School
[00:31:03.194] in Zimbabwe
[00:31:04.153] said that they saw
[00:31:04.946] a silver craft descend
[00:31:06.447] from the sky and land on a field
[00:31:08.283] near their school.
[00:31:09.075] Well, guess
[00:31:09.826] where the aerial school was?
[00:31:11.202] And, you know, an ariel school
[00:31:12.745] that was near a uranium mining site.
[00:31:15.874] That is right, as far as I understand.
[00:31:17.709] But maybe the best
[00:31:18.710] collection of evidence
[00:31:19.794] around the UFO nuclear connection
[00:31:21.754] comes from a very creatively
[00:31:23.506] named book called UFOs
[00:31:25.300] and Nukes by Robert Hastings.
[00:31:28.011] He started to
[00:31:28.678] investigate and
[00:31:29.596] just speak to all of these
[00:31:30.930] radar operators,
[00:31:32.140] and a lot of them claim
[00:31:33.600] some pretty crazy things around
[00:31:35.018] seeing UFOs around nuclear bases.
[00:31:37.395] Over the past 37 years,
[00:31:39.147] I have personally located
[00:31:40.899] and interviewed
[00:31:41.774] more than 120 of these former
[00:31:44.360] or retired military personnel.
[00:31:46.154] You have Robert Salas
[00:31:47.864] at Malmstrom saying
[00:31:49.198] that the whole base
[00:31:50.283] was actually rendered inoperable.
[00:31:51.576] This time
[00:31:52.368] he was screaming into the phone
[00:31:54.037] saying they're looking at an object,
[00:31:56.623] a red glowing object.
[00:31:58.791] Yeah the sights were going down,
[00:32:00.418] like one by one.
[00:32:01.419] Very rarely does a missile malfunction.
[00:32:03.671] And I don't think any much more rare of
[00:32:06.174] this would be two at the same time.
[00:32:08.051] But never ten.
[00:32:09.177] You have Bob Jacobs
[00:32:10.303] at Vandenberg in 64.
[00:32:11.721] He's a photo
[00:32:12.180] instrumentation specialist.
[00:32:13.264] They were launching
[00:32:14.849] dummy nuclear warheads
[00:32:16.434] off of Atlas five missiles
[00:32:18.186] and seeing a UFO kind of wrap around it
[00:32:20.813] and take it down.
[00:32:23.024] And I said,
[00:32:24.525] it looks like we've got a UFO.
[00:32:26.653] You have hundreds of accounts
[00:32:28.571] of these missile man
[00:32:30.031] radar operators for at nuclear sites
[00:32:32.700] who have no incentive to lie.
[00:32:34.535] In many cases, the incentives-
[00:32:35.828] or in all cases, the incentives
[00:32:37.455] split in the other direction,
[00:32:38.623] saying that they're seeing stuff.
[00:32:40.291] Well, I know the missileers,
[00:32:41.793] you know,
[00:32:42.335] they're on what they call PRP,
[00:32:43.962] personal reliability program.
[00:32:45.672] Like they have to, like, report
[00:32:46.839] if they're like, you know,
[00:32:47.465] take an ibuprofen,
[00:32:48.424] for God's sakes, because,
[00:32:49.467] you know, they're a key turner
[00:32:50.468] for nuclear weapons.
[00:32:52.220] These missileers
[00:32:53.137] go through the most
[00:32:53.846] stringent of mental health
[00:32:55.223] exams to get their jobs.
[00:32:56.766] They're literally the people we task
[00:32:58.476] with hitting the button
[00:32:59.352] that sends a nuke.
[00:33:00.520] By definition,
[00:33:01.562] they're the picture of mental health.
[00:33:03.523] And they are all steeped in a culture
[00:33:05.650] that frowns upon attention seeking.
[00:33:07.694] Time and time again,
[00:33:08.695] these missile
[00:33:09.237] men would see UFOs
[00:33:10.530] near nuclear facilities,
[00:33:11.864] and without fail,
[00:33:13.241] the Air Force
[00:33:13.992] Office of Special Investigations
[00:33:15.785] would show up.
[00:33:16.411] Men in black style,
[00:33:17.495] confiscate the footage,
[00:33:18.913] threaten the witness
[00:33:19.914] and swear them to secrecy.
[00:33:21.332] And he said, Lieutenant Jacobs,
[00:33:23.292] you are never to speak of this again.
[00:33:25.712] It never happened.
[00:33:27.255] From Hastings work,
[00:33:28.423] we now know that UFO
[00:33:29.757] sightings were happening
[00:33:30.883] all across
[00:33:31.718] American nuclear production,
[00:33:33.511] missile storage and deployment sites,
[00:33:35.596] plutonium enrichment sites
[00:33:37.181] like Hanford, Washington and Savannah
[00:33:39.100] River Site in South Carolina.
[00:33:40.727] To nuclear stockpiles at Fort
[00:33:42.562] Hood, Texas, and Killeen Base Camps.
[00:33:44.689] From Los Alamos to Sandia
[00:33:46.691] to Malmstrom to F.E. Warren.
[00:33:48.901] The list goes on.
[00:33:50.987] What is the connection with nuclear?
[00:33:53.197] Is it
[00:33:53.865] the kind of benevolent protector theory
[00:33:55.658] they don't want us
[00:33:56.409] to destroy ourselves?
[00:33:58.161] Or is it that some weird
[00:33:59.704] like they're mining us for something
[00:34:01.205] and so they want to
[00:34:01.748] protect their resources?
[00:34:03.249] Or is it the power unlock thing
[00:34:04.751] where we could rip
[00:34:06.127] space time
[00:34:06.878] and maybe be able to travel
[00:34:08.129] like they can travel?
[00:34:09.589] And so, you know,
[00:34:10.840] nuclear power is the axis along
[00:34:13.092] which we're making
[00:34:13.718] progress towards that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:16.095] I mean, it might be as simple as like
[00:34:17.638] it's an attractant, like a fly
[00:34:19.432] or mosquito to a blue light, right.
[00:34:21.434] It could be something
[00:34:22.060] as simple as that.
[00:34:22.977] I mean, it's
[00:34:23.811] so hard because to put yourself
[00:34:25.938] in a different sentient’s shoes
[00:34:27.356] to understand intent and
[00:34:29.025] all that, I mean,
[00:34:30.401] could be probing,
[00:34:31.694] could be reconnaissance, could be just,
[00:34:33.488] you know, mere curiosity.
[00:34:35.948] Yes.
[00:34:36.699] You know,
[00:34:37.784] Oh, they're only,
[00:34:38.534] you know,
two or three orders of magnitude away
[00:34:40.536] energy extraction from,
[00:34:41.829] you know, you know, manipulating space
[00:34:43.498] time in an Alcubierre
[00:34:45.124] you know, warp drive type thing.
[00:34:46.626] And maybe they're
[00:34:47.627] interested in that, too,
[00:34:48.669] to understand our
[00:34:49.879] our development as a civilization.
[00:34:52.006] I mean, without having,
[00:34:54.592] you know, a
[00:34:55.259] penetration into their ooda loop
[00:34:56.803] or whatever, we'll never really know.
[00:34:58.596] Yeah, it could be all of the above.
[00:35:02.266] Yeah.
[00:35:02.767] And it's really impossible
[00:35:04.310] to really ever gauge intent.
[00:35:08.648] The controller told us
[00:35:09.607] that these objects
[00:35:10.566] had been observed for over two weeks
[00:35:11.859] coming down from over
[00:35:12.610] 80,000 feet,
[00:35:13.569] rapidly descending to 20,000 feet,
[00:35:15.404] hanging out for hours
[00:35:16.656] and then going straight back up.
[00:35:17.949] For those don't realize,
[00:35:18.825] above 80,000 feet is space.
[00:35:22.036] It's just this cat and mouse
[00:35:23.412] sort of
[00:35:24.580] recursive unsolvability
[00:35:26.582] where it's just very hard to classify.
[00:35:28.501] It's almost like playing with you
[00:35:29.836] a little bit.
[00:35:30.169] Even Commander David Fravor in
[00:35:31.546] his account was like
[00:35:32.672] the thing felt like
[00:35:33.422] it was like breathing and looking at me
[00:35:35.049] and knew- he even said,
[00:35:36.676] he let it slip in the testimony.
[00:35:38.636] It was like it
[00:35:39.053] definitely was aware of our existence.
[00:35:40.471] I'm like, How do you know that, man?
[00:35:42.306] You're not in the UFO shoes, but yeah,
[00:35:45.101] I understand what he was saying,
[00:35:46.686] which is you can sense
[00:35:47.562] when somebody is looking at you.
[00:35:49.021] Yeah, I know.
[00:35:49.480] I've had some folks I talked to
[00:35:51.149] that had their own kind of up
[00:35:53.317] close kind of sightings.
[00:35:54.610] They said that they got that vibe, too,
[00:35:57.155] You know,
who knows
[00:35:57.780] if that's psychosomatic or what.
[00:36:00.658] But they did they
[00:36:01.784] they did get a vibe like that too.
[00:36:03.161] When you stare into the abyss
[00:36:04.328] long enough, the abyss stares back.
[00:36:05.955] Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:06.706] And then, of course,
[00:36:07.665] I've had a very smart guy
[00:36:09.500] who was like, Well, did
[00:36:10.543] Darwin care to fully conceal himself
[00:36:13.004] when he studied finches?
[00:36:15.089] And it's like they observe,
[00:36:17.925] they don't really care.
[00:36:19.427] And they don't really care to interact,
[00:36:20.803] but they're just here to observe.
[00:36:22.013] But is that your bias, that it's
[00:36:23.431] sort of an anthropological
[00:36:25.933] zoological model where
[00:36:27.852] they're like studying us
[00:36:29.312] and we're in this kind of petri dish?
[00:36:31.105] Yeah,
I think, you know,
[00:36:32.481] I'll give credit to Luis
[00:36:33.858] for the whole gorilla
[00:36:35.276] in the cage and, you know,
[00:36:36.903] throw it
[00:36:37.236] a banana,
[00:36:37.570] throw it the key, and see
[00:36:39.197] if it can unlock the cage.
[00:36:41.282] And and maybe that's what's,
[00:36:43.701] you know,
[00:36:44.076] some of these, you know, crashes were
[00:36:46.287] and it wasn't really a mission failure,
[00:36:48.164] if you will.
[00:36:49.290] It was, you know, maybe some seeding.
[00:36:50.958] And this is total
[00:36:51.626] theoretical framework here.
[00:36:52.960] So it's like you never really know.
[00:36:54.420] But you see
[00:36:55.296] what you can do with this or
[00:36:58.216] the key is nuclear power or something.
[00:37:01.469] And it's like the gorilla has
[00:37:02.803] we have the key.
[00:37:03.679] Another analogy
[00:37:05.223] that Eric Weinstein loves to use
[00:37:07.225] is he talks about
[00:37:09.227] North Sentinel Island,
[00:37:10.686] which is
[00:37:11.437] an island of Aboriginals
[00:37:12.813] who basically have not made any contact
[00:37:15.191] with with civilization.
[00:37:16.359] It's off the coast of India,
[00:37:17.818] and the Indian government basically
[00:37:19.028] just lets them do their thing
[00:37:20.112] and kind of respects them.
[00:37:21.155] And take this analogy,
[00:37:23.199] if the North Sentinelese
[00:37:24.158] started developing nukes,
[00:37:26.410] maybe the Indian government
[00:37:27.912] would start to pay
[00:37:28.579] a little more attention
[00:37:37.964] To the extent
[00:37:38.506] that there is interference,
[00:37:39.590] I think one anomaly
[00:37:40.883] that's important to talk about
[00:37:41.842] is it
seems to be like
[00:37:42.802] there's a lot
[00:37:43.302] of electromagnetic radiation
[00:37:45.680] that comes off of these crafts.
[00:37:48.015] And I remember talking to Gary Nolan
[00:37:50.393] and he mentioned
[00:37:51.727] that he was kind of given
[00:37:52.603] a file by the CIA and he was
[00:37:55.690] tasked with looking into this.
[00:37:57.191] And it was two things.
[00:37:58.401] It was people
[00:37:58.901] who had anomalous UFO experiences,
[00:38:01.988] and it was people who had experienced
[00:38:05.032] Havana syndrome.
[00:38:06.075] Diplomats and spies
[00:38:07.326] began to hear sounds and fall
[00:38:09.328] ill with a mysterious illness
[00:38:11.205] that people struggled to explain.
[00:38:13.040] What became known as Havana Syndrome.
[00:38:15.668] And in both cases,
[00:38:17.295] you have this kind of
[00:38:18.379] severe electromagnetic
[00:38:19.964] radiation effects and often
[00:38:23.301] differences in the caudate
[00:38:25.177] nucleus and putamen,
[00:38:26.470] which is in the basal ganglia,
[00:38:27.722] the dorsal striatum of the brain,
[00:38:29.765] the scarring,
[00:38:30.850] but also the neuronal density
[00:38:32.768] of that area of the brain
[00:38:34.061] would cause somebody
[00:38:35.146] to even make sort of contact.
[00:38:37.231] But do you have
[00:38:37.732] do we have any theories
[00:38:38.774] on kind of
[00:38:39.442] the electromagnetic
[00:38:40.443] radiation component?
[00:38:40.860] I mean, I mean, certainly if we were to
[00:38:44.113] look at it
[00:38:44.530] from like
[00:38:44.905] a relativistic perspective,
[00:38:46.866] well, that sounds like visible band
[00:38:48.451] light being blue
[00:38:49.493] shifted into the ultraviolet
[00:38:51.245] and you're getting literally a sunburn.
[00:38:53.414] And and if you look at an Alcubierre
[00:38:56.375] type thing where, you know,
[00:38:58.336] lights getting lensed
[00:38:59.295] around the craft, etc., stuff
[00:39:00.796] should be blue and red shifting.
[00:39:02.923] So things coming towards
[00:39:04.508] you would actually redshift spectrally.
[00:39:06.510] And the people getting like burns
[00:39:09.221] so that's ultraviolet
[00:39:10.389] it's like ionizing radiation.
[00:39:12.308] So that would be light
[00:39:14.477] being blue shifted into the ultraviolet
[00:39:16.979] as it's lens
[00:39:18.856] across the bubble
[00:39:20.024] that the craft creates.
[00:39:21.525] And so we are seeing artifacts
[00:39:24.528] that seem to show that it's
[00:39:26.781] they're basically
[00:39:27.406] manipulating space time.
[00:39:29.325] And I guess that's
[00:39:30.326] why you get this sort
[00:39:31.410] of skipping across
[00:39:33.329] time effect or something.
[00:39:34.830] It looks like the things are just
[00:39:37.166] you're sort of you're
[00:39:37.750] literally folding space
[00:39:38.918] time, I guess, so
[00:39:39.668] you can get from point A
[00:39:40.544] to point Z- you're riding a wave,
[00:39:42.088] basically create a wave
[00:39:43.839] and you're on top of the tsunami wave
[00:39:46.092] and you're riding across space time.
[00:39:49.678] And then, of course, there's
[00:39:50.846] the kind of the other thing
[00:39:51.972] is, you know, if
[00:39:52.515] it's like an Einstein
[00:39:53.265] Rosen Bridge thing,
[00:39:54.683] you know, two points
[00:39:55.476] on a piece of paper and you fold it.
[00:39:57.853] But like
[00:39:58.813] but the way
[00:39:59.438] they're jumping around and skipping is
[00:40:02.566] if you're riding the wave,
[00:40:03.734] it looks like you're moving
[00:40:05.069] very rapidly and
[00:40:08.322] like punctuated
[00:40:09.698] kind of movements
[00:40:10.699] because think of an accordion
[00:40:13.077] and those waves, the wave
[00:40:14.453] you’re riding’s an accordion,
[00:40:15.162] when you flatten out the accordion
[00:40:16.497] like flat space time,
[00:40:18.249] you would smoothly move across.
[00:40:20.126] But I think we're we're stuck
[00:40:21.836] with like, Einstein’s
[00:40:22.837] stuff was amazing and nobody's really
[00:40:25.965] I mean, there's
[00:40:26.298] obviously people with string theory,
[00:40:29.427] M brane,
[00:40:30.302] all these other different
[00:40:31.679] physics theories, you know,
[00:40:32.763] quantum gravity and other theories.
[00:40:35.141] But, you know,
[00:40:35.850] there hasn't been something
[00:40:36.642] that's, you know,
[00:40:37.268] unified all the weak and strong
[00:40:39.562] force, etc..
[00:40:40.604] And that's an ongoing thing.
[00:40:42.731] And I think you finding the Higgs
[00:40:43.858] boson is going to be the big answer.
[00:40:45.609] Yeah, we'll see.
[00:40:46.527] So speaking of string theory,
[00:40:48.362] it feels like it
[00:40:49.613] just hasn't shipped a product.
[00:40:51.157] You have our best and brightest,
[00:40:52.741] often really smart people
[00:40:54.910] getting into this sort of field that,
[00:40:57.538] you know,
maybe you can detect black holes
[00:40:59.165] with strings,
[00:40:59.707] but generally it's
[00:41:00.833] just not that useful.
[00:41:02.084] Well, string theory,
[00:41:03.252] I mean, mathematically
[00:41:05.796] it works out right?
[00:41:07.131] But like
[00:41:08.007] most of the stuff
[00:41:08.883] you can't empirically observe
[00:41:10.843] because the strings are so small.
[00:41:12.678] Subatomically there's just like,
[00:41:14.430] no way of- it’s 11 dimensions.
[00:41:16.557] No way of verifying that.
[00:41:18.517] So it's a nice
[00:41:20.019] I'll call it like overlay or that
[00:41:22.438] that maybe this,
[00:41:23.355] maybe this is reality maybe it's not,
[00:41:25.441] it mathematically works out.
[00:41:26.400] I think it's force fitting
[00:41:28.611] general relativity
[00:41:29.737] and quantum field theory.
[00:41:31.280] But this brings
[00:41:32.490] up an interesting question, which is
[00:41:33.616] can we go down the tree
[00:41:34.909] trunk of physics
[00:41:35.951] and then find another branch?
[00:41:38.954] Clearly quantum physics with nuclear
[00:41:41.415] and hydrogen bombs
[00:41:42.583] as its byproducts
[00:41:43.876] was becoming dangerous.
[00:41:45.878] It is an atomic bomb.
[00:41:47.505] It is a harnessing of the basic power
[00:41:49.757] of the universe.
[00:41:51.383] After the invention
[00:41:52.426] of these apocalyptic weapons was true
[00:41:54.970] fundamental physics
[00:41:56.263] then concealed in deep
[00:41:57.681] black aerospace?
[00:41:59.058] While public facing physics,
[00:42:00.643] was sent into a cul de sac
[00:42:02.228] so it could do less damage?
[00:42:05.731] Were there actually updates in physics,
[00:42:07.942] maybe mid-century,
[00:42:09.485] that were not disclosed to the public?
[00:42:14.114] Okay, I realize this sounds
[00:42:15.574] kind of insane, but hear me out.
[00:42:17.576] Imagine that
[00:42:18.244] this billiard ball is a proton.
[00:42:20.079] The golden age of relativity,
[00:42:21.997] was a wild,
[00:42:23.040] forgotten time
[00:42:24.041] in the history of American physics.
[00:42:26.293] This was a period in the fifties
[00:42:28.128] where the study of antigravity-
[00:42:30.047] Yeah, you heard me right, antigravity.
[00:42:32.258] Experienced a dramatic
[00:42:33.884] resurgence of interest,
[00:42:35.469] not just among quacks,
[00:42:37.096] among real physicists.
[00:42:38.806] Since then,
[00:42:39.348] there has been a steady
[00:42:40.891] but constant improvement.
[00:42:42.560] Roger Babson,
[00:42:43.686] a patron of science, was obsessed
[00:42:46.146] with finding the solution
[00:42:47.231] to antigravity.
[00:42:48.148] His Gravity Research Foundation
[00:42:50.025] held a popular essay contest
[00:42:51.944] which garnered contributions
[00:42:53.571] from many of the top minds at the time.
[00:42:55.823] Meanwhile, another industrialist,
[00:42:57.741] Agnew Bahnson,
[00:42:58.951] started the Institute of Field Physics
[00:43:00.953] in North Carolina,
[00:43:02.079] also dedicated to study of antigravity.
[00:43:04.790] His Chapel Hill conference
[00:43:06.250] in 1957 included
[00:43:08.252] top physicists like Bryce DeWitt,
[00:43:10.504] Richard Feynman, Peter Bergman,
[00:43:12.673] Freeman Dyson and John Wheeler
[00:43:14.675] all there to discuss
[00:43:15.968] the role of gravity in physics.
[00:43:18.012] As physicist
[00:43:18.887] Louis Witten would go on to say
[00:43:20.598] about antigravity in the fifties,
[00:43:22.516] it was in the wind,
[00:43:23.809] meaning it was everywhere.
[00:43:25.352] He said,
[00:43:25.728] What are you doing about anti-gravity?
[00:43:27.646] And I said, Well, I'm
[00:43:28.731] not against gravity.
[00:43:34.695] Witten actually worked in Martin
[00:43:36.530] Corporation's Antigravity
[00:43:38.073] Research unit. That's right.
[00:43:39.742] They had an antigravity
[00:43:41.035] research outfit.
[00:43:42.161] It was called Research Institute
[00:43:43.996] for Advanced Studies,
[00:43:45.164] or RIAS for short.
[00:43:47.082] And Martin Corporation,
[00:43:48.375] of course, would later
[00:43:49.585] become Lockheed Martin.
[00:43:50.919] Louis Witten's
[00:43:51.754] direct boss
[00:43:52.796] at RIAS was a guy named George Trimble
[00:43:56.050] in a 1956 article
[00:43:57.926] found in Jane's Defense Weekly.
[00:43:59.887] George Trimble
[00:44:00.763] said, We're already
[00:44:01.805] working on nuclear
[00:44:03.015] fuels and equipment
[00:44:04.183] to cancel out
[00:44:04.933] gravity, and added
[00:44:06.185] that the conquest of gravity
[00:44:07.645] could be done
[00:44:08.354] in about the amount of time
[00:44:09.813] it took to build the first atom bomb.
[00:44:12.024] By the time
[00:44:12.775] the sixties had rolled around,
[00:44:14.068] most people had kind of forgotten
[00:44:15.736] about antigravity.
[00:44:16.862] It quieted down
[00:44:17.780] because nobody ever got anywhere,
[00:44:19.657] or it quieted down
[00:44:20.824] because it did get
[00:44:21.575] somewhere and it went black.
[00:44:24.203] This kind of weird where,
[00:44:25.579] as far as I know,
[00:44:26.789] in my kind of
[00:44:27.790] topological physics
[00:44:29.041] history knowledge, where,
[00:44:31.377] you know,
there was all these anti-grav groups
[00:44:33.962] up until the early sixties
[00:44:35.339] and then they, you know,
[00:44:36.757] totally vaporized.
[00:44:38.050] You know,
[00:44:39.385] there's physics knowledge
[00:44:40.719] held by aerospace companies
[00:44:42.471] that is not known.
[00:44:43.055] There certainly is materials knowledge.
[00:44:44.765] Materials which involves
[00:44:47.976] topological physics or whatever.
[00:44:50.187] It's hard to say
[00:44:51.105] whether anything real was discovered
[00:44:52.815] in the realm of anti-gravity
[00:44:54.316] or if it went black.
[00:44:55.567] But when aviation journalist,
[00:44:57.319] Nick Cook, tried to meet with the
[00:44:59.279] then long retired 80
[00:45:00.823] something year old George Trimble
[00:45:02.449] through a friend of his at Lockheed
[00:45:03.909] Martin, this was the message
[00:45:05.536] he received back: Quote, unquote-
[00:45:08.038] I don't know who this old man
[00:45:09.707] is or what he once was,
[00:45:12.042] but he told me in no uncertain terms
[00:45:14.336] to get off his case.
[00:45:15.838] He doesn't want to speak to me
[00:45:17.297] and he doesn't want to speak to you.
[00:45:18.924] Not now, not ever.
[00:45:20.843] I don't mind telling you
[00:45:22.094] that he sounded scared.
[00:45:24.054] Did deep black Aerospace
[00:45:25.723] secretly make a huge breakthrough
[00:45:27.599] in antigravity?
[00:45:28.600] Well, when he worked for Martin
[00:45:30.102] in the fifties,
[00:45:30.936] Lewis Witten
[00:45:31.603] specialized in nonlinear
[00:45:33.313] algebra and topological physics.
[00:45:35.315] The two things that you'd need
[00:45:36.900] to investigate gravity
[00:45:38.235] and maybe how to beat it.
[00:45:40.612] He also did contract
[00:45:41.905] work on gravity
[00:45:42.740] for Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
[00:45:45.242] The reason there was a laboratory
[00:45:47.202] at Wright
[00:45:47.619] Field was to find out
[00:45:49.580] what we were doing
[00:45:50.706] and to help us do it.
[00:45:52.374] And I got a contract from Wright
[00:45:54.126] Field to do it,
[00:45:55.961] to do Gravity,
[00:45:57.296] which I did very happily.
[00:45:59.673] And who is Louis Witten’s son?
[00:46:01.550] Ed Witten.
[00:46:02.593] Just the most formidable
[00:46:04.219] proponent of string theory,
[00:46:05.721] maybe of all time.
[00:46:06.972] Do you think that string theory,
[00:46:08.891] which Ed Witten worked
[00:46:10.058] on, is intentionally
[00:46:11.351] a bridge to nowhere?
[00:46:13.061] I have privately said to you
[00:46:14.772] that string theory was a
[00:46:16.940] very odd development
[00:46:18.692] because it both allowed physics
[00:46:20.861] to proceed
[00:46:21.820] as if it was doing something new
[00:46:24.364] while breaking no new ground
[00:46:26.325] in the physical world in which we live.
[00:46:29.953] I don't really
[00:46:30.662] know if you were trying
[00:46:31.538] to stagnate the field,
[00:46:33.832] string theory is pretty brilliant.
[00:46:37.836] And remember that Chapel
[00:46:39.087] Hill conference that’s thrown
[00:46:40.380] in 1957 by Agnew Bahnson who's obsessed
[00:46:43.592] with antigravity?
[00:46:44.802] Well, Louis Witten was there.
[00:46:46.845] And the conference helped
[00:46:47.971] establish quantum gravity
[00:46:49.765] of which string theory is an offshoot.
[00:46:52.309] In an interview
[00:46:53.018] with the American Institute of Physics,
[00:46:54.978] when antigravity gets brought
[00:46:56.563] up, Louis Witten says,
[00:46:58.482] a guy named Townsend discovered
[00:47:00.442] that there was a type of bismuth
[00:47:02.027] that was repelled
[00:47:03.111] instead of attracting.
[00:47:04.363] There was a vice president
[00:47:06.031] of the Martin Company
[00:47:07.115] who brought that up.
[00:47:07.991] He said, I read about a guy in Indiana
[00:47:10.452] who says the rock of bismuth, that's
[00:47:12.579] it shows antigravity.
[00:47:14.623] And where have we heard about bismuth
[00:47:16.792] with possible
[00:47:17.584] anti-gravity properties before?
[00:47:19.461] That's Gary
[00:47:20.170] Nolan, Stanford microbiologist
[00:47:22.256] and Nobel nominee
[00:47:23.465] who claims to have UFO crash parts
[00:47:26.051] with isotope ratios
[00:47:27.719] that don't occur naturally on earth.
[00:47:29.972] One of his pieces
[00:47:30.931] that we looked at together
[00:47:32.057] when I visited was magnesium bismuth.
[00:47:34.935] Bismuth layers,
[00:47:36.478] less than a human hair
[00:47:37.813] supposedly picked up
[00:47:39.356] in the crash retrieval
[00:47:40.691] of an advanced aerospace vehicle.
[00:47:43.318] Nowhere could we find any evidence
[00:47:44.987] that anybody ever made one of these.
[00:47:46.572] And who's this Townsend
[00:47:47.948] guy Witten’s referring to?
[00:47:49.741] Witten had to have been talking
[00:47:51.368] about Townsend Brown,
[00:47:52.786] one of the country's leading
[00:47:54.162] antigravity researchers at the time.
[00:48:02.004] Yeah, and there's a
[00:48:02.504] guy named Townsend
[00:48:03.338] Brown who had a theory that if you took
[00:48:06.508] two charged plates
[00:48:07.509] and then you put something
[00:48:08.385] neutral between them,
[00:48:09.803] the neutral thing would
[00:48:10.596] sort of gravitate a little towards
[00:48:12.431] the positively charged plate.
[00:48:14.558] And you could basically
[00:48:15.934] figure out antigravity.
[00:48:17.060] From the outside,
[00:48:18.270] Townsend Brown sort of
[00:48:19.563] looks like an amateurish
[00:48:21.064] mid-century physicist
[00:48:22.482] and failed inventor
[00:48:23.775] exploring the kooky
[00:48:24.943] world of antigravity
[00:48:26.361] just to end up failing in
[00:48:27.988] creating the intellectual property
[00:48:29.740] behind the Ionic Breeze Air Purifier.
[00:48:32.326] I'm not joking.
[00:48:33.577] But a great biography called
[00:48:35.245] The Man
[00:48:35.704] Who Mastered Gravity by Paul
[00:48:37.497] Schatzkin tells the real story.
[00:48:39.791] He parachuted
[00:48:40.959] behind enemy lines into Germany in 1944
[00:48:45.172] and started looking into the German
[00:48:48.926] UFO reverse engineering program.
[00:48:51.261] That’s crazy.
[00:48:53.764] OSS and MI6 super spies Bill Donovan
[00:48:56.808] and William
[00:48:57.309] Stephenson
[00:48:58.101] needed the Allies preeminent
[00:48:59.770] antigravity scientist
[00:49:01.146] to investigate the notorious Foo
[00:49:03.190] Fighter phenomena.
[00:49:04.524] These were bizarre orbs
[00:49:06.234] that looked like
[00:49:06.902] intelligently controlled ball
[00:49:08.570] lightning popping up all over
[00:49:10.489] Germany in the early forties
[00:49:11.990] and messing with Allied fighter pilots.
[00:49:17.829] I couldn't find a
[00:49:18.830] ton of corroboration
[00:49:20.040] outside of Schatzkin’s
[00:49:21.249] book on this story.
[00:49:22.709] But here's why I think it's true.
[00:49:24.503] We do know for a fact
[00:49:25.879] that Eisenhower sent
[00:49:27.130] General James
[00:49:28.173] Doolittle to investigate
[00:49:29.633] Swedish ghost rockets.
[00:49:31.385] These were tons of UFO sightings
[00:49:33.220] in Sweden
[00:49:33.845] and Finland in the immediate
[00:49:35.222] aftermath of World War II.
[00:49:37.099] Curiously, Doolittle
[00:49:38.433] then went back to the United States
[00:49:40.268] just to found the Lindbergh
[00:49:41.770] Foundation, which researched
[00:49:43.605] novel aviation propulsion methods.
[00:49:45.941] So I wouldn't be totally surprised
[00:49:47.442] if Townsend Brown was tasked
[00:49:48.860] with the same thing with Foo Fighters.
[00:49:51.405] I mean, there's some other stuff, too,
[00:49:52.531] that I can't talk about
[00:49:54.157] that was way before that.
[00:49:55.200] So you're like, Oh, shit.
[00:49:57.703] But what did Brown's work
[00:49:58.996] in Antigravity have to do with UFOs?
[00:50:01.415] Well, his gravitator looked exactly
[00:50:03.542] like a flying saucer.
[00:50:04.960] He found that
[00:50:05.877] circular craft were better
[00:50:07.796] for that application than winged craft.
[00:50:10.465] And behind closed doors,
[00:50:12.092] Townsend Brown was obsessed with UFOs.
[00:50:14.970] He even created NICAP,
[00:50:16.722] the National Investigations
[00:50:18.223] Committee on Aerial Phenomena.
[00:50:20.225] When Townsend's daughter, Linda Brown,
[00:50:22.185] and his biographer requested
[00:50:23.812] the scientist’s records from the Navy,
[00:50:25.647] they were at first very uncooperative.
[00:50:27.941] And then eventually they hinted that
[00:50:29.651] a lot of Brown's
[00:50:30.402] work was still classified.
[00:50:31.987] But why would Brown's work
[00:50:33.155] be classified
[00:50:34.031] if he was just a failed hack?
[00:50:36.074] The National Secrecy Act
[00:50:37.492] prevented scientists like T.
[00:50:38.827] Townsend Brown from commercializing
[00:50:40.662] or even publicizing any technology
[00:50:43.415] which could potentially be interpreted
[00:50:45.500] as having a military application.
[00:50:47.377] Well we know from Schatzkin’s biography
[00:50:49.421] that Brown actually had meetings
[00:50:51.423] with the highest level officials
[00:50:53.383] in American atomic programs,
[00:50:55.260] people like Edward
[00:50:56.178] Teller, the father of the hydrogen
[00:50:57.763] bomb, and General
[00:50:58.722] Curtis LeMay,
[00:50:59.681] both deep insiders
[00:51:01.266] when it came to atomic secrets.
[00:51:02.893] Townsend Brown's daughter Linda
[00:51:04.478] even recalls
[00:51:05.437] that he was often taken home
[00:51:07.064] in a black Cadillac driven
[00:51:08.774] by a man
[00:51:09.316] that she would eventually come
[00:51:10.692] to know as Robert Sarbacher.
[00:51:12.652] And where have we heard
[00:51:13.862] that mysterious name before?
[00:51:15.322] Sarbacher,
[00:51:16.239] somebody purportedly involved
[00:51:17.949] in the stand up of the stuff
[00:51:19.284] that I uncovered. Right.
[00:51:20.827] But if you look deeper, things
[00:51:22.120] get even weirder with Brown.
[00:51:23.955] In the naval records that we do have,
[00:51:25.957] it shows
[00:51:26.416] that Brown was suddenly terminated
[00:51:28.335] by the Navy in 1942
[00:51:30.378] with no explanation,
[00:51:31.713] despite strong performance.
[00:51:33.673] Two weeks later,
[00:51:34.466] he mysteriously pops up as an employee
[00:51:36.968] at Martin Corporation in Burbank,
[00:51:39.096] just 50 miles
[00:51:40.305] from where Skunkworks
[00:51:41.348] is founded
[00:51:41.890] a year later, by legendary
[00:51:43.558] aeronautical engineer Kelly Johnson.
[00:51:45.769] Skunkworks was created to house
[00:51:47.521] Martin's most advanced, secretive work.
[00:51:50.107] Over 80% of its current
[00:51:52.025] projects are still classified.
[00:51:53.944] Is it a coincidence
[00:51:54.986] that Townsend Brown
[00:51:55.904] joined Martin Corporation
[00:51:57.239] a year before its founding?
[00:51:58.949] And guess who else funded Brown?
[00:52:00.700] None other than Agnew Bahnson,
[00:52:02.494] the same antigravity financier
[00:52:04.871] who helped send physics into a dead end
[00:52:06.998] by popularizing quantum gravity.
[00:52:08.834] Okay. Okay. Townsend Brown.
[00:52:10.293] I’ll remember that.
[00:52:10.627] I want to look that up.
[00:52:11.878] I heard it in one of the documentaries-
[00:52:14.589] because there is
[00:52:15.090] this golden age
[00:52:15.757] of relativity in the fifties,
[00:52:17.050] and then everything
[00:52:17.592] sort of went silent.
[00:52:18.969] And I think that's
[00:52:19.594] an interesting axis
[00:52:20.470] for you guys to look into.
[00:52:22.514] Okay, this is all interesting,
[00:52:24.015] but I know, right?
[00:52:24.850] We don't have a smoking gun
[00:52:26.143] that any of Brown's work
[00:52:27.394] actually got implemented by deep
[00:52:29.354] Black Aerospace.
[00:52:32.274] Well, that's actually not true.
[00:52:33.775] We kind of do have evidence.
[00:52:35.527] In March of 1992,
[00:52:37.362] Aviation Week
[00:52:38.405] broke a story about the B-2
[00:52:40.240] stealth bomber.
[00:52:41.199] It used an electrokinetic effect
[00:52:43.326] in its wings,
[00:52:44.161] producing a Biefield-Brown effect.
[00:52:46.371] The B-2
[00:52:46.955] surfs its own
[00:52:47.956] electrostatic wave,
[00:52:49.291] the negative cloud
[00:52:50.208] chasing the positive wing.
[00:52:51.668] This is an exact description
[00:52:53.420] of Townsend
[00:52:53.920] Brown's work,
[00:52:54.880] and the Biefield-Brown Effect
[00:52:56.214] is literally named after him.
[00:52:57.883] And the B-2 was built
[00:52:59.217] by the merged Northrop Grumman,
[00:53:00.969] whose major investor, Floyd Odlum,
[00:53:03.221] was the same guy that invested
[00:53:05.265] in Townsend Brown's
[00:53:06.308] company Guidance
[00:53:07.267] Technologies in the sixties.
[00:53:09.603] I guess Townsend Brown
[00:53:10.729] isn't just the wacky fan guy anymore.
[00:53:22.240] There's just like this
[00:53:22.782] parallel history.
[00:53:23.909] It's very
[00:53:25.410] tightly coupled to
[00:53:26.494] what is known
[00:53:27.579] publicly, paperclip, etc..
[00:53:29.206] But there's this like other side of it
[00:53:30.790] that a lot of it
[00:53:31.708] dealt with the UFO, UAP issue
[00:53:34.586] in earnest.
[00:53:35.879] Operation Paperclip was a secret
[00:53:38.131] CIA program
[00:53:39.216] that took more
[00:53:39.925] than 1600 former Nazi
[00:53:41.885] scientists and engineers
[00:53:43.970] and placed them in senior leadership
[00:53:46.097] roles in American
[00:53:47.140] military, intelligence
[00:53:48.725] and space programs
[00:53:49.851] in the wake of World War II.
[00:53:51.269] Germans made more progress
[00:53:53.021] than anybody at the time.
[00:53:54.648] Just in aerospace generally.
[00:53:56.524] The V-2 flying rocket
[00:53:57.692] was 20, 30 years ahead of anybody-
[00:53:59.236] the M262
[00:54:00.403] jet fighter and-
[00:54:02.280] the whole wunderwaffe arsenal.
[00:54:04.658] And one has to ask
[00:54:06.201] why do we have such a pressing
[00:54:07.452] need to get Wernher von Braun
[00:54:08.828] and Arthur Rudolph and all these guys?
[00:54:10.830] The NASA's
[00:54:11.456] Saturn program
[00:54:12.165] was literally transplantation
[00:54:13.875] of the Nazi program.
[00:54:15.627] Why was there such a pressing
[00:54:16.753] need to get all these people in the US?
[00:54:19.631] And, you know,
[00:54:20.173] maybe it had something
[00:54:20.924] to do with the UFO thing, who knows.
[00:54:22.342] Because Wernher von Braun
[00:54:23.134] was also a very trippy guy.
[00:54:25.470] Remember that story about Townsend
[00:54:27.264] Brown parachuting
[00:54:28.348] into Germany
[00:54:29.015] to investigate Foo
[00:54:30.058] Fighters and Nazi UFO programs?
[00:54:32.394] Well, maybe
[00:54:33.061] Operation Paperclip
[00:54:34.271] had a little more to do with UFOs
[00:54:36.189] than meets the eye.
[00:54:37.399] Yeah, Paperclip’s
[00:54:38.358] pretty nuts when you think about it.
[00:54:40.110] Like, ethically and morally,
[00:54:41.695] you had
[00:54:42.279] people that were war criminals,
[00:54:43.863] people who were gonna be
[00:54:44.864] tried at Nuremberg. Yes.
[00:54:46.783] They they took off that
[00:54:48.451] and then they snatched them
[00:54:49.744] and brought them back to the U.S.
[00:54:50.954] And a lot of them became seniors
[00:54:53.123] at what became the CIA.
[00:54:54.791] And, you know, NASA.
[00:54:55.917] And and it's like,
[00:54:57.794] yeah,
I don't know
[00:54:58.336] if it would have happened nowadays.
[00:54:59.796] I feel like we would
[00:55:00.672] actually not be able
[00:55:01.548] to turn a blind eye to like,
[00:55:02.924] oh, there's no chance.
[00:55:03.800] Yeah, Wernher Von Braun oversaw
[00:55:05.927] a brutal, mostly
[00:55:07.554] Jewish slave
[00:55:08.471] labor camp
[00:55:09.597] where tons and tons of people died.
[00:55:12.726] Yeah.
And then he went on to literally run
[00:55:15.520] our space program.
[00:55:16.479] It's pretty interesting history.
[00:55:19.649] Yeah.
[00:55:20.025] Like his boss, like the German
[00:55:23.236] general that, you know,
[00:55:24.696] Von Braun
[00:55:25.071] worked for back in Germany, you know,
[00:55:26.781] you know, came over
[00:55:27.782] and was like very high up.
[00:55:28.867] And I think it was NASA.
[00:55:30.410] After so many witnesses,
[00:55:32.871] it seemed the so-called flying saucers
[00:55:36.499] their existence cannot longer
[00:55:38.585] be denied.
[00:55:39.586] You know, it's kind of like getting red
[00:55:40.628] pilled in the matrix.
[00:55:41.588] Yeah. Oh, holy shit.
[00:55:42.881] Reality is, like, way
[00:55:44.466] crazier and weirder than
[00:55:46.801] than I thought.
[00:55:48.136] There's more likely people
[00:55:48.928] from the program
[00:55:49.596] watching your channel than ours.
[00:55:53.016] Maybe. I can tell you that for sure.
[00:55:55.226] They're like,
[00:55:56.227] this Jesse
[00:55:56.728] guy keeps making speculations.
[00:55:58.313] He's coming closer and closer.
[00:55:59.731] Well that's the thing, is
[00:56:01.274] if you have somebody
[00:56:02.108] who has a great intelligence on this,
[00:56:05.653] you should probably bring them in
[00:56:06.946] and not,
[00:56:07.655] you know,
[00:56:08.323] leave him out there speculating. Right.
[00:56:10.367] If you're on the program,
[00:56:14.496] mind strictly the nightmare type,
[00:56:17.457] reports of flying
[00:56:18.458] saucers are nothing new
[00:56:20.293] from the beginning of recorded time
[00:56:22.253] men have been seen
[00:56:23.213] unexplainable things in the sky
[00:56:25.382] Some one of you
[00:56:27.050] told me the other day about this
[00:56:28.218] saucer, the flying saucer
[00:56:29.928] someone that word before
[00:56:32.472] it became in movies or something. Yeah.
[00:56:34.140] And we had the public hearing with the
[00:56:35.558] Yes family that was brought up.
[00:56:37.310] Anyone want to- Yeah.
[00:56:38.603] Kenneth Arnold In 1947,
[00:56:40.688] two months before Roswell
[00:56:42.732] was looking for a downed
[00:56:43.775] cargo plane in Mount Rainier,
[00:56:45.860] he saw this kind of like saucer
[00:56:47.612] skipping or saucer skipping.
[00:56:49.197] It was
they were in a V flying V formation.
[00:56:52.659] I think the point of that was
[00:56:54.369] in culture, the word flying
[00:56:57.163] saucer was not derived from fiction.
[00:57:00.583] It's the other way around.
[00:57:01.793] It was like
[00:57:02.794] people like our depiction of aliens
[00:57:05.797] and flying
[00:57:06.172] saucers were actually were derived
[00:57:08.675] from people's real life stories,
[00:57:10.510] not the other way around.
[00:57:11.678] And that's always
[00:57:12.387] a misconception about.
[00:57:13.430] Yes, but this is
[00:57:14.597] an important conversation.
[00:57:15.682] I don't know
if you have an opinion on this,
[00:57:17.434] but books like American Cosmic
[00:57:19.978] by Diana Pasulka
[00:57:21.187] and Passport to Magonia
[00:57:22.605] by Jacques Vallee, do
[00:57:24.274] talk about how the noble
[00:57:25.608] mythology of the time,
[00:57:26.776] whether it's the religion or media,
[00:57:28.987] do play somewhat of a role
[00:57:30.822] in sort of shading
[00:57:32.532] how you recollect an experience.
[00:57:34.367] So the classic example is Betty
[00:57:35.452] and Barney Hill in 1961.
[00:57:37.287] Outer Limits was a CBS show
[00:57:39.747] that had played 11 days
[00:57:41.458] before that abduction experience,
[00:57:43.877] and it showed aliens with eyes
[00:57:47.046] that wrapped around
[00:57:47.797] the rims of their head.
[00:57:48.965] And that's exactly
[00:57:50.008] what they sort of described.
[00:57:51.885] Yeah, analytical
[00:57:52.886] overlay, it's almost like we discussed
[00:57:54.220] before where you had, like,
[00:57:56.014] you know,
witches sitting on the chests of people
[00:57:58.057] feeling paralyzed in medieval times.
[00:58:00.477] It's like,
[00:58:01.394] you know, our overlay
[00:58:02.645] is this classic alien kind of motif.
[00:58:04.814] But like,
[00:58:05.231] if you look at what they said before,
[00:58:07.484] it's the same phenomenon.
[00:58:08.526] Basically, people
[00:58:09.777] their analytical overlay’s different.
[00:58:11.654] So they, you know,
[00:58:12.697] describe it in a different way.
[00:58:14.365] Leprechauns, fairies,
[00:58:15.700] elves, angels, demons.
[00:58:17.452] We just superimpose our own reality
[00:58:19.120] onto the thing.
[00:58:20.622] It's almost like you have,
[00:58:21.247] like a meme library in your head
[00:58:23.541] and then you have this
[00:58:24.375] higher platonic thing that's happening
[00:58:26.294] and you attach the, the closest meme
[00:58:29.255] that you can to it. Yeah, exactly.
[00:58:31.174] People have been seeing the same stuff.
[00:58:33.134] Like so
[00:58:33.968] the tic tac of today
[00:58:36.054] was the flying butane
[00:58:37.347] tank photo of the 1950s.
[00:58:39.849] And you can find declassified
[00:58:42.310] Air Force OSI reports
[00:58:43.686] that are publicly searchable right now.
[00:58:45.438] Yeah.
That talk about these
[00:58:46.356] like flying white butane tanks. Right.
[00:58:49.025] And you know, the Foo Fighter
[00:58:50.109] phenomenon in World War Two.
[00:58:52.070] And then if you were to go way back,
[00:58:54.280] you know,
[00:58:54.614] you see stuff
[00:58:55.448] that's basically described
[00:58:57.075] the same in antiquity as well.
[00:58:59.160] So whether it be extraterrestrial,
[00:59:01.955] you know,
[00:59:02.497] some other kind of origin,
[00:59:04.290] you know, crypto, terrestrial,
[00:59:05.333] what are some of the other stuff
[00:59:06.376] people postulate.
[00:59:07.377] We deserve to understand,
[00:59:09.295] you know, truths of the universe.
[00:59:11.381] And if we have
[00:59:13.758] the answer one of
[00:59:14.759] life's questions, right?
[00:59:15.885] You know what happens when we die?
[00:59:17.220] And are we alone?
[00:59:18.638] If we can answer one of those.
[00:59:21.266] But it's kept in secret
[00:59:23.017] because they believe
[00:59:24.310] the public can't handle it
[00:59:25.603] or it hinders this like, you know,
[00:59:28.690] Cold War arms
[00:59:29.524] race that I talked about
[00:59:30.525] in my first public interview.
[00:59:32.694] That seems pretty messed up to me.
[00:59:40.743] What do you think about
[00:59:41.828] elite interest in the topic?
[00:59:43.871] So the Rockefellers funded Steven Greer
[00:59:46.165] in the nineties-
[00:59:47.208] and John Mack- and John Mack,
[00:59:49.043] and they funded the Princeton
[00:59:50.670] Parapsychology Lab.
[00:59:52.255] Then you have Chris
[00:59:52.922] Mellon, who's a Mellon,
[00:59:54.007] obviously sort of interested
[00:59:54.924] in the subject.
[00:59:55.425] I think there are letters
[00:59:56.217] between Lawrence Rockefeller
[00:59:57.594] and Hillary Clinton in the nineties
[00:59:59.053] where he's sort of pushing
[00:59:59.887] for disclosure. That's right.
[01:00:00.847] Because I think
[01:00:01.389] I think it was David
[01:00:02.223] Rockefeller was also involved in that
[01:00:04.434] and it was like a Camp David meet up
[01:00:06.936] and she's in
[01:00:07.770] and she's
[01:00:08.521] holding the book by Paul Davies,
[01:00:10.523] Are We Alone
[01:00:11.357] And there's a photo of that.
[01:00:12.525] And it's wild.
[01:00:14.027] Certainly if you use the Rockefellers
[01:00:16.738] as the most prominent
[01:00:17.614] example, they're certainly
[01:00:20.074] called old money elite
[01:00:21.117] interests,
[01:00:22.535] and maybe it's because of their
[01:00:25.371] interest in frontier science
[01:00:27.582] or who knows?
[01:00:28.625] I've never talked to the Rockefellers.
[01:00:30.335] I have no idea what spurred
[01:00:32.462] that interest on,
[01:00:33.755] but they were certainly pushing
[01:00:35.131] for transparency on the issue.
[01:00:36.591] And that's
[01:00:37.091] one of the most influential families
[01:00:38.551] in America, right?
[01:00:39.677] It is important
[01:00:40.511] in any scientific process
[01:00:41.888] to try to maintain the null hypothesis
[01:00:44.015] for as long as possible
[01:00:45.183] and actually
[01:00:45.933] Kuhn, who wrote the,
[01:00:46.851] you know, structure
[01:00:48.019] of scientific revolutions,
[01:00:49.812] you know, talks about this.
[01:00:50.980] And he was friends with John Mack,
[01:00:53.149] who was the head of the Harvard
[01:00:54.275] Psychiatry Department,
[01:00:56.027] who tried to maintain
[01:00:58.154] the null hypothesis and say, you know,
[01:00:59.864] I don't think this is real
[01:01:00.823] because he started-
[01:01:01.866] He was actually a private clinician.
[01:01:03.326] He started to see people
[01:01:04.452] who would bring up
[01:01:05.203] these alien encounters.
[01:01:07.038] And I think the thing
[01:01:08.539] that's really important for people
[01:01:09.874] is just the amount
[01:01:10.625] of credentialed people
[01:01:12.293] that once
[01:01:13.044] they start to have an open mind
[01:01:15.254] and actually genuinely inquire
[01:01:17.006] and usually these people
[01:01:18.424] start to take it seriously.
[01:01:20.218] Yeah, like I have a good friend,
[01:01:21.678] Eric Weinstein, who's, you know,
[01:01:23.554] pretty well respected,
[01:01:24.847] you know, public intellectual,
[01:01:26.474] you know,
[01:01:27.016] I used to just wax poetic, you know,
[01:01:28.434] Hey, look like this is real.
[01:01:30.144] I promise you, this is real.
[01:01:31.187] And he used to think- he-
[01:01:32.563] so I think his quote is like,
[01:01:34.232] this is the one area
[01:01:35.233] where you had brain damage.
[01:01:36.693] You would not come off of this point.
[01:01:38.528] And I was convinced that you were brain
[01:01:41.698] damaged on this one issue.
[01:01:43.116] You know, I really was.
[01:01:44.409] And now,
[01:01:45.660] you know, look, I think, you know,
[01:01:47.412] he oscillates,
[01:01:48.246] but he's
[01:01:49.414] pretty deep into the history
[01:01:51.416] to the point
[01:01:51.916] where he's
[01:01:52.667] he's bought in that
[01:01:53.418] this is at least something
[01:01:54.627] worthy of investigation.
[01:01:56.379] Yeah.
I mean, there's certainly
[01:01:57.255] some scholarship there,
[01:01:58.506] whether it be Jacques Vallee or,
[01:02:00.508] you know, Diana Pasulka recently.
[01:02:02.093] And Jacques Vallee built
[01:02:03.261] the earliest version of the Internet,
[01:02:04.929] you know, ARPANET or he helped it,
[01:02:06.723] you know, Doug Engelbart
[01:02:07.807] and is a serious astronomer.
[01:02:08.933] These people have serious backgrounds.
[01:02:10.601] Yeah I mean,
I was a really hard core intel guy
[01:02:13.062] working on some of the hardest,
[01:02:14.689] most deep black stuff.
[01:02:17.024] And I didn't
[01:02:18.192] really think much about UFOs,
[01:02:19.485] but then I started looking into it,
[01:02:21.154] you know, I have, like,
[01:02:21.904] people in tears, like, you know,
[01:02:24.741] naval officers,
[01:02:25.742] pilots, etc.,
[01:02:26.743] wanting to tell me
[01:02:27.785] what they literally saw.
[01:02:29.579] And, you know, and,
[01:02:31.456] you know, either
[01:02:31.956] a lot of people are having
[01:02:32.915] psychological breaks.
[01:02:34.333] There's a lot of weird
[01:02:35.042] weather phenomena
[01:02:36.335] that manifest themselves in physical,
[01:02:39.130] tangible, like metallic
[01:02:41.048] looking craft that are close.
[01:02:44.051] That seems crazy to me.
[01:02:45.219] And and I'm like, well,
[01:02:46.804] these people
[01:02:47.555] deeply believe what they saw.
[01:02:51.726] And I have to take them seriously.
[01:02:53.811] So we need to figure out
[01:02:54.520] what this phenomenon is.
[01:02:55.688] Carl Jung
[01:02:56.272] wrote a book about flying-
[01:02:58.107] the book is called Flying Saucers,
[01:03:00.485] and he talks about flying saucers
[01:03:02.236] as the kind of Mandala,
[01:03:04.197] the Sanskrit symbol
[01:03:05.406] of psychic completeness.
[01:03:07.033] And it's this proto
[01:03:08.326] psychological desire for us to, like,
[01:03:11.245] have this kind of revelation of, like,
[01:03:13.956] knowing everything all at once.
[01:03:15.792] And what was crazy about it
[01:03:16.751] as he wrote the book and he was like,
[01:03:18.002] this is just kind of a symbolic
[01:03:19.462] psychological archetype.
[01:03:21.172] And then afterwards
[01:03:22.507] he became convinced
[01:03:24.091] that the phenomena was actually real.
[01:03:25.843] There are things flying around up there
[01:03:27.553] that we haven't fully identified yet.
[01:03:29.263] Roswell is a very interesting place
[01:03:31.182] with a lot of people
[01:03:32.141] that would like to know
[01:03:32.767] what's going on.
[01:03:33.476] There's footage and records of objects
[01:03:36.813] in the skies that we don't know
[01:03:39.607] exactly what they are.
[01:03:40.775] We saw a bright light
[01:03:43.444] appear in the distant western skies.
[01:03:47.824] Okay, At this point in the video,
[01:03:49.575] you might be thinking there's
[01:03:50.952] actually a decent amount
[01:03:52.161] of evidence for UFOs.
[01:03:53.871] So why are people
[01:03:54.914] so reflexively and often
[01:03:56.582] smugly dismissive of the topic?
[01:03:58.876] No to predictions, no to aliens.
[01:04:01.003] Well, on the one hand,
[01:04:01.879] it's a fair reaction.
[01:04:03.256] There are a multitude of profit
[01:04:05.174] and attention seeking
[01:04:06.133] charlatans in the space, people
[01:04:07.760] who have absolutely no interest
[01:04:09.387] in pursuing truth,
[01:04:10.471] who embellish stories
[01:04:11.764] and sell snake oil for a living.
[01:04:13.558] Then, of course,
[01:04:14.308] you have your counterintelligence
[01:04:15.768] crew throwing constant smoke bombs
[01:04:17.895] and trying to confuse
[01:04:18.813] you and throw you off the trail.
[01:04:20.106] But maybe the most important point
[01:04:22.191] when discussing the insane
[01:04:23.651] stigma around UFOs
[01:04:25.695] is that some of the biggest,
[01:04:27.280] most prominent skeptics
[01:04:28.865] over the last 50 years,
[01:04:30.783] the people who've done more damage
[01:04:32.702] to open
[01:04:33.160] research on the topic
[01:04:34.328] than anyone else were,
[01:04:36.455] you guessed it,
[01:04:37.832] from the atomic programs.
[01:04:39.917] The same atomic programs
[01:04:41.752] Dave is saying are responsible
[01:04:43.462] for initially studying UFOs
[01:04:45.631] and then establishing their secrecy.
[01:04:47.508] I find it really interesting
[01:04:48.759] that you have
[01:04:49.093] some of the most prominent debunkers
[01:04:51.220] guys like Menzel,
[01:04:52.805] guys like Condon, H.P.
[01:04:54.432] Robertson.
[01:04:54.974] Who were kind of
[01:04:56.767] big shots,
[01:04:57.560] who'd also worked
[01:04:58.686] on the Manhattan Project.
[01:04:59.812] Condon was involved.
[01:05:01.355] Oh, I didn't realize that.
[01:05:02.356] Oh, yeah,
[01:05:03.733] he worked with Vannevar Bush a lot.
[01:05:06.027] Oh, really? Oh yeah, yeah.
[01:05:10.489] Edward Euler Condon was a mid-century
[01:05:13.117] quantum physicist,
[01:05:14.285] and no single person
[01:05:15.912] is more responsible
[01:05:17.204] for the marginalization of UFOs
[01:05:19.248] than this man
[01:05:20.124] and his famous Condon Committee.
[01:05:22.043] This 1966 investigation into UFOs
[01:05:25.421] was paid for,
[01:05:26.380] but supposed to be uninfluenced
[01:05:28.299] by the Air Force.
[01:05:29.425] But we now know that Condon
[01:05:31.260] was actually coordinating
[01:05:32.595] closely with Air Force officials
[01:05:34.388] like Colonel Robert Hippler,
[01:05:36.223] who had expressed clear written desire
[01:05:38.601] that all previous UFO
[01:05:40.019] research be shown as a waste of money.
[01:05:42.146] The Condon Committee's report
[01:05:43.648] dealt a death blow
[01:05:44.774] to UFO research
[01:05:45.858] in the second half of the 20th century.
[01:05:48.986] The back story here is
[01:05:50.446] that Condon was very deep
[01:05:52.073] in the world of atomic secrets.
[01:05:53.741] Not only did he study
[01:05:55.117] with Robert Oppenheimer
[01:05:56.285] under Max Born
[01:05:57.286] in Germany together in the twenties,
[01:05:59.497] he's sometimes credited
[01:06:00.873] for helping Oppenheimer
[01:06:02.083] pick Los Alamos as the site
[01:06:03.876] for the Manhattan Project.
[01:06:05.086] Condon knew the area well,
[01:06:06.671] having grown up
[01:06:07.421] around the corner in Alamogordo.
[01:06:09.340] He also recruited
[01:06:10.633] a lot of the project's early staff
[01:06:12.635] and wrote the Los
[01:06:13.594] Alamos Primer,
[01:06:14.762] a document
[01:06:15.388] all employees had to read
[01:06:16.931] before arrival.
[01:06:17.807] Then, in 1946,
[01:06:19.475] Condon helped draft
[01:06:20.559] the McMahon Atomic Energy Act,
[01:06:22.645] which again, Dave is literally saying
[01:06:24.814] establishes the framework
[01:06:26.315] for UFO secrecy.
[01:06:27.733] The McMahon Act of 46,
[01:06:29.276] which was the predecessor
[01:06:30.277] to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954.
[01:06:32.738] The guys that were involved
[01:06:34.031] in Manhattan
[01:06:34.865] were overlaying
[01:06:35.616] the same ecosystem of secrecy
[01:06:37.576] in some of the same ways
[01:06:39.245] to protect stuff.
[01:06:40.454] That they were protecting
[01:06:41.080] our nuclear secrets.
[01:06:42.248] So Condon was probably clued in
[01:06:44.291] to high level
[01:06:44.834] UFO secrets from the start.
[01:06:46.585] And how many people were deterred
[01:06:48.421] from studying UFOs
[01:06:49.755] because this one high
[01:06:51.090] prestige quantum physicist
[01:06:52.633] told them it was a waste of time.
[01:06:54.385] So was Condon
[01:06:55.302] just an insider
[01:06:56.387] who knew the truth behind UFOs
[01:06:58.431] and was
[01:06:58.889] he used by the original atomic
[01:07:00.850] UFO programs
[01:07:02.059] and by the Air Force to downplay it?
[01:07:08.232] Bob Lazar said he worked at
[01:07:09.859] a secret facility near Groom Lake,
[01:07:12.194] where Alien Technology
[01:07:13.696] was being reverse engineered.
[01:07:15.573] Do you think Bob Lazar is full of shit?
[01:07:18.868] Bob Lazar is by far
[01:07:20.411] the most famous case of somebody
[01:07:22.038] who publicly claims
[01:07:23.539] to have secretly worked on
[01:07:24.915] reverse engineering UFOs.
[01:07:26.584] He outed himself in 1989
[01:07:28.878] and since then has remained
[01:07:30.296] remarkably consistent in his story,
[01:07:32.506] even while detractors cite
[01:07:33.966] that he possibly faked
[01:07:35.259] his educational credentials at MIT.
[01:07:38.137] He ended up actually recently
[01:07:39.555] going on Joe Rogan.
[01:07:41.015] And it's still like this
[01:07:42.391] bizarre split
[01:07:43.392] where, like so many people were like,
[01:07:44.477] he was right. He was right.
[01:07:45.519] And people are now using your testimony
[01:07:47.646] to say he's totally vindicated.
[01:07:50.232] And then the verdict’s still out
[01:07:51.734] because I a lot of ufologists UFO
[01:07:54.820] people that I really respect
[01:07:56.197] are just pretty skeptical.
[01:07:58.115] So I don't know if you have a take.
[01:07:59.241] Yeah, I mean I'm certainly
[01:08:00.951] different than him.
[01:08:01.702] I came at it from a different angle.
[01:08:03.954] I have no information on Bob Lazar,
[01:08:06.999] it wasn't in the scope
[01:08:08.250] of my looking into
[01:08:09.794] it kind of activities.
[01:08:11.712] If he actually ever experienced
[01:08:13.422] what he experienced, I'd
[01:08:14.381] literally have no idea.
[01:08:18.010] Honestly, I go
[01:08:18.886] back and forth on
[01:08:19.678] whether Bob Lazar is telling the truth
[01:08:21.263] all the time.
[01:08:22.181] On the one hand,
[01:08:22.973] the guy sells illicit chemicals
[01:08:24.975] on a sketchy website,
[01:08:26.352] invested in a brothel
[01:08:27.978] and seems like a petty
[01:08:29.230] conman and criminal.
[01:08:30.397] But on the other hand,
[01:08:31.440] he definitely has
[01:08:32.650] some engineering prowess.
[01:08:34.026] He strapped a jet
[01:08:34.985] engine to the back of his Honda.
[01:08:36.695] He may have actually met
[01:08:38.030] with Edward Teller
[01:08:39.115] and he probably did do
[01:08:40.449] some work at Los Alamos.
[01:08:42.118] Finally, his story
[01:08:43.077] just seems so consistent.
[01:08:44.578] He really doesn't seem like a guy
[01:08:45.996] who thinks he's lying.
[01:08:47.248] Look, there's a lot of weird stuff
[01:08:48.916] about the Bob Lazar story.
[01:08:50.626] His story's been absolutely consistent
[01:08:52.378] since the late 1980s.
[01:08:53.879] It's a classic intelligence tactic
[01:08:55.798] to give people
[01:08:56.549] 95% correct information
[01:08:58.843] and 5% false information.
[01:09:00.886] You can track the flow of information
[01:09:02.680] by the uniquely false details in it.
[01:09:04.598] And you can easily discredit the leak.
[01:09:06.767] Bob Lazar would hang around
[01:09:08.144] some interesting characters.
[01:09:09.728] Guys like John Lear,
[01:09:11.230] who flew cargo planes
[01:09:12.398] for the CIA in the seventies.
[01:09:13.983] Lear definitely seemed
[01:09:15.192] to spread disinformation
[01:09:16.569] in other cases.
[01:09:17.736] He was also the son of Bill
[01:09:19.321] Lear, inventor
[01:09:20.281] of the Learjet
[01:09:21.115] who may have been involved
[01:09:22.366] in the original UFO program.
[01:09:24.160] My question is, did John Lear
[01:09:26.203] manipulate Lazar
[01:09:27.371] into spreading a bunch
[01:09:28.414] of pure disinformation?
[01:09:30.416] And so Lazar's
[01:09:31.292] claim that he worked on
[01:09:32.209] UFOs was all a complete lie?
[01:09:34.712] Or was Lazar just a disclosure test
[01:09:37.131] for Lear and others around him?
[01:09:38.632] Let's see how the public
[01:09:39.884] reacts to this guy.
[01:09:41.135] He's easy to discredit,
[01:09:42.595] but mostly telling the truth.
[01:09:44.054] Personally, I'm not sure what to think
[01:09:46.223] and would love to meet Lazar myself
[01:09:47.975] and ask him what he meant
[01:09:49.226] when he told Jacques Vallee
[01:09:50.686] about the liquid he was made to drink
[01:09:53.022] and the memory lapses
[01:09:54.190] it caused
[01:09:55.065] and about his relationship
[01:09:56.358] with John Lear.
[01:09:59.111] There’s
[01:09:59.653] probably a small contingency out there
[01:10:01.447] that says the US needs to
[01:10:03.115] maintain primacy.
[01:10:04.450] You have this exotic tech
[01:10:06.368] that we've found, you know,
[01:10:07.661] in the case of whatever crashes
[01:10:09.371] that have occurred.
[01:10:10.372] We don't know
[01:10:11.540] exactly what to do with it.
[01:10:12.666] Maybe we made more progress early
[01:10:14.168] on than we have now.
[01:10:15.586] We need to kind of refresh
[01:10:16.879] the talent pool
[01:10:18.088] and maybe out ourselves
[01:10:19.590] as a program and frontrun immunity
[01:10:22.468] through legislature to do that.
[01:10:24.094] What do you say to those people
[01:10:25.179] that- Yeah,
[01:10:25.930] because I mean, that's something
[01:10:26.680] I tried to espouse on News Nation.
[01:10:28.390] I can't remember how they
[01:10:29.350] edited it or whatever, but
[01:10:31.769] it actually
[01:10:32.561] hurts national supremacy
[01:10:34.730] to keep it obtusely secret.
[01:10:36.607] Yeah, that's what I’m saying.
[01:10:37.608] You can't even bring
[01:10:38.484] the right people on it
[01:10:39.735] you know
say the best theoretician in quantum
[01:10:43.906] thermodynamics just happens to
[01:10:47.326] smoke marijuana
[01:10:48.702] so he can't get a clearance
[01:10:49.954] and he can’t get on the program.
[01:10:51.997] So it actually hurts,
[01:10:54.041] you know, national security
[01:10:55.417] by not opening it up,
[01:10:56.543] at least in an appropriate way,
[01:10:59.505] that we're not compromising anything
[01:11:01.090] that somebody could use
[01:11:01.840] illicitly to hurt people.
[01:11:04.301] But at least and that's why
[01:11:05.803] I used the nuclear physics example.
[01:11:07.513] The program should want to out itself.
[01:11:09.515] Yeah.
[01:11:09.890] It's like, yeah, protect
[01:11:11.809] what could be weaponized. Yeah.
[01:11:13.185] But generally allow it
[01:11:14.228] to be studied openly.
[01:11:16.689] But there's absolutely
[01:11:17.439] like no cogent plan that
[01:11:18.857] I'm aware of to do so.
[01:11:22.152] Congressman, do you
[01:11:22.820] think that these reverse engineering
[01:11:24.738] programs have made any progress
[01:11:26.407] or do you think. Yeah, I do.
[01:11:27.449] I just don't think they
[01:11:28.242] they're going to scratch-
[01:11:29.326] because if they did
[01:11:31.370] we wouldn't- we would own the skies
[01:11:32.830] if they had it.
[01:11:33.956] Isn't it
[01:11:34.415] in their best interest
[01:11:35.416] to just get immunity for themselves
[01:11:36.750] and try to refresh the talent pool
[01:11:38.294] if these people are you know, it's
[01:11:40.004] they're all old and it's
[01:11:41.213] completely compartmentalized
[01:11:42.631] and they haven't made you know,
[01:11:43.716] and the Wilson memo.
[01:11:44.425] They’re completely arrogant.
[01:11:46.218] They're arrogant. Blatantly arrogant.
[01:11:47.386] They're above the laws
[01:11:48.345] and they're above-
[01:11:48.971] why aren’t
[01:11:49.930] they releasing the Kennedy files?
[01:11:51.181] Nobodies allowed in sixty years,
[01:11:52.975] but every president-
[01:11:53.684] you think there’s a connection
[01:11:54.852] between that and this?
[01:11:56.437] I heard,
[01:11:57.021] I've heard
[01:11:57.396] that I would hate to speculate.
[01:11:58.480] I’m more just- I want it to surface.
[01:12:02.026] Just give me the start.
[01:12:03.027] Gotcha. Thank you.
[01:12:06.030] We must guard
[01:12:06.822] against the acquisition
[01:12:08.532] of unwarranted influence,
[01:12:10.242] whether sought or unsought,
[01:12:12.202] by the military industrial complex.
[01:12:14.955] I have no idea
[01:12:16.206] if JFK’s death
[01:12:17.166] had anything to do with UFOs.
[01:12:19.043] But there is a letter
[01:12:20.461] that was supposedly declassified due
[01:12:22.504] to a Freedom of Information
[01:12:23.881] Act request in 2006.
[01:12:25.966] It was from JFK
[01:12:27.176] to the director of the CIA
[01:12:28.844] at the time, John McCone. Its date?
[01:12:31.388] November 12th, 1963, just ten days
[01:12:34.808] before the president's assassination.
[01:12:36.643] In the letter, JFK
[01:12:38.020] is asking for the full data
[01:12:39.646] on unknowns or UFOs
[01:12:41.982] so we can coordinate more tightly
[01:12:43.609] with Russians in space.
[01:12:45.611] And they don't mistake
[01:12:46.570] these UFOs as acts
[01:12:48.113] of American aggression
[01:12:49.198] or reconnaissance.
[01:12:50.324] I've called the guy
[01:12:51.492] who used the Freedom of Information
[01:12:53.077] Act to retrieve this document
[01:12:54.620] like five times now,
[01:12:56.038] and he's not playing ball.
[01:12:57.331] So I have no idea
[01:12:58.457] if this document is real.
[01:12:59.833] And an anonymous archivist
[01:13:01.543] that handles
[01:13:02.169] a lot of JFK's letters
[01:13:03.587] say that there are some anomalies
[01:13:05.172] in the letter that make him skeptical.
[01:13:07.007] So who knows?
[01:13:07.966] But I will say
[01:13:08.801] this is a very weird non-sequitur
[01:13:10.803] from former CIA Director
[01:13:12.346] Mike Pompeo, when asked why
[01:13:14.056] the nearly 5000
[01:13:15.265] JFK files
[01:13:16.141] still won't be released to this day.
[01:13:18.727] Why did you fight to keep
[01:13:19.978] the JFK files secret?
[01:13:21.855] These don't hold the dark secrets
[01:13:23.148] that everybody wants
[01:13:23.899] to just hold up as the boogeyman.
[01:13:25.484] I saw the UFO files, too.
[01:13:27.361] We've got bigger problems.
[01:13:31.323] What do you say to the people who say
[01:13:32.741] this is a psyop
[01:13:34.076] and they just want
[01:13:35.077] black budget funding?
[01:13:36.620] So the information might be right,
[01:13:37.871] but they just want to be able
[01:13:39.331] to have increased surveillance
[01:13:41.250] in the skies and in space or whatever.
[01:13:43.335] Yeah,
[01:13:43.669] that comes up
[01:13:44.378] I think with some people
[01:13:45.295] that have like an issue with it
[01:13:46.547] where you had to remember
[01:13:48.048] like national security threat
[01:13:49.299] is the way to get Congress
[01:13:50.801] alerted and engaged.
[01:13:52.177] That is like the operative word
[01:13:55.139] that Congress responds to.
[01:13:57.057] The narrative
[01:13:58.267] that this could be a threat.
[01:13:59.476] Because, look, to be honest with you,
[01:14:00.978] I think this stuff's been going on
[01:14:02.229] for thousands of years.
[01:14:03.522] And so it does frustrate me
[01:14:05.482] a little bit when it's like,
[01:14:07.109] you know,
we need to be able to
[01:14:09.278] shoot these things down.
[01:14:10.362] It's like,
I don't think they’re really a,
[01:14:12.489] you know,
[01:14:12.823] an immediate existential threat
[01:14:14.491] as my- as my strong bias.
[01:14:15.909] It might not be
[01:14:16.410] the smartest idea to try to fire back
[01:14:19.121] when they're not firing at you.
[01:14:20.414] They'll take you out
[01:14:21.290] real quick
[01:14:21.999] if they can fly faster than light
[01:14:23.500] and do all the stuff they're doing.
[01:14:25.210] So yeah, it's probably not a good idea.
[01:14:27.296] We probably shouldn't
[01:14:28.630] attack the zookeeper.
[01:14:30.966] Yeah, exactly.
[01:14:32.050] Don’t attack the zookeeper.
[01:14:33.051] Like, that's probably not a good idea.
[01:14:34.803] Stick to the facts,
[01:14:36.346] write it down and don't
[01:14:37.389] speculate what you think it is
[01:14:38.765] because it will sway your decision.
[01:14:39.975] The thing that frustrated me
[01:14:41.351] about the hearing was,
[01:14:43.395] look, I think Ryan Graves is awesome.
[01:14:45.772] And I think as is commander,
[01:14:47.024] David Fravor.
[01:14:47.483] I think they're showing
[01:14:48.066] a lot of courage.
[01:14:49.026] But it felt like their simple take away
[01:14:51.278] is we need more sensors
[01:14:52.988] and we need a better collection process
[01:14:54.698] and a more standard taxonomy,
[01:14:55.991] all of which are very important.
[01:14:58.368] But it's this kind of lazy data story
[01:15:00.662] that I think comes from Silicon Valley,
[01:15:02.915] where it's like
[01:15:03.665] if we just get
[01:15:04.291] a bigger database of the UFOs,
[01:15:06.793] a machine
[01:15:07.336] learning classifier
[01:15:08.420] will somehow spit out the answer
[01:15:10.547] as to what they are.
[01:15:11.590] Yeah,
[01:15:11.965] the only thing you're going
[01:15:12.549] to get from external observation,
[01:15:13.967] at least through the lens
[01:15:14.968] I look through, right.
[01:15:15.886] You're going to get what they call
[01:15:16.637] activity based intelligence, ABI.
[01:15:18.805] You'll figure out where
[01:15:19.515] the true hotspots are,
[01:15:20.849] but it's not the end all, be all.
[01:15:22.768] If you have- you're trying
[01:15:24.353] to find a needle in a haystack,
[01:15:25.771] you don't want to add to the haystack.
[01:15:28.398] And I think we are overindexed
[01:15:30.692] on- Yeah, saturated with data.
[01:15:32.528] Oversaturated with data in some ways,
[01:15:34.613] and it could be probably
[01:15:35.656] better standardized.
[01:15:36.615] So I'll give them that.
[01:15:38.242] But we're under indexed on theory,
[01:15:40.118] and to my mind,
[01:15:41.036] we have one
[01:15:42.538] pretty strong theoretician
[01:15:44.414] and Jacques Vallee.
[01:15:46.542] Who really, if you read
[01:15:48.043] like The Invisible College,
[01:15:49.336] which he wrote in 1975,
[01:15:51.129] that is the tip of the spear now,
[01:15:54.007] in terms of theory on UFOs,
[01:15:55.884] which is wild to me.
[01:15:57.844] Jacques Vallee
[01:15:58.720] might be the most preeminent
[01:16:00.264] UFO researcher in the world.
[01:16:02.391] In fact,
[01:16:03.058] he was Steven Spielberg's inspiration
[01:16:05.143] for the eccentric French
[01:16:06.436] scientist played by Francois Truffaut
[01:16:08.855] in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
[01:16:10.899] Yeah,
nobody's really replaced him
[01:16:13.569] at that level.
[01:16:15.070] And especially hypotheses
[01:16:17.322] that are even a little more testable.
[01:16:19.157] But what the average person
[01:16:20.534] might not know about Jacques
[01:16:22.327] is that he's obsessed with time travel.
[01:16:24.830] In fact,
[01:16:25.539] on the set of Close Encounters,
[01:16:26.873] he got into an argument
[01:16:28.041] with Steven Spielberg.
[01:16:29.167] And we had a long discussion
[01:16:30.544] about what UFOs could be.
[01:16:32.087] And of course, for him,
[01:16:33.880] the main point of of
[01:16:36.300] the movie was entertainment,
[01:16:37.884] and it was appropriate for the UFOs
[01:16:40.345] to be extraterrestrial visitors.
[01:16:42.931] Jacques wanted the UFOs
[01:16:44.391] and the aliens in the movie
[01:16:45.684] to be represented in a more nuanced way
[01:16:48.186] and actually linked with time travel,
[01:16:50.105] not just space travel.
[01:16:51.440] I think that
[01:16:52.649] the extraterrestrial hypothesis
[01:16:54.735] is actually more farfetched.
[01:16:57.070] I think the idea
[01:16:57.904] that another species
[01:16:59.656] would evolutionarily converge
[01:17:01.783] to be bipedal,
[01:17:03.243] to have kind of the symmetric,
[01:17:05.370] you know, bipedal- bilateral symmetry.
[01:17:07.956] Yeah.
Because if we look at like
[01:17:09.374] the Aeriel School event,
[01:17:11.043] you know,
if we believe the 100 schoolchildren
[01:17:12.961] that saw bipedal,
[01:17:15.047] you know, hominid looking kind of NHI.
[01:17:18.425] That seems
[01:17:20.135] pretty rare to
[01:17:21.011] have the same development
[01:17:22.262] where they're gonna -
[01:17:23.055] it's either extraterrestrial,
[01:17:25.223] and we're seeing bioengineered beings
[01:17:30.270] that look
[01:17:30.812] similar to us
[01:17:31.897] for ease of communication
[01:17:33.440] and acceptance maybe?
[01:17:35.150] And that is like almost like an avatar
[01:17:37.361] for the intelligence behind,
[01:17:38.862] you know, the
[01:17:39.821] the ghost behind the machine
[01:17:41.323] or whatever.
[01:17:42.074] That they were engineered specifically
[01:17:44.660] to look like that
[01:17:45.327] and it wasn't natural.
[01:17:46.536] Jacques' heir
[01:17:47.788] in the UFO theory
[01:17:48.789] world is a guy named Mike Masters.
[01:17:51.416] A biological anthropologist
[01:17:53.335] at Montana Tech University,
[01:17:55.420] who believes that
[01:17:56.171] aliens are basically
[01:17:57.464] just humans from the future,
[01:17:59.341] who figured out time
[01:18:00.550] travel and are going back in
[01:18:02.052] time to visit us in the present.
[01:18:03.762] We see them less often
[01:18:05.055] because we're just one small blip
[01:18:06.848] on their geographic map of time.
[01:18:09.226] I like this sort of,
[01:18:10.477] you know, beings from the future
[01:18:12.187] hypothesis for a few reasons.
[01:18:13.689] So there's actually a concept
[01:18:15.107] in evolutionary biology called neoteny,
[01:18:17.984] where your distant offspring
[01:18:20.529] looks like your kids currently.
[01:18:23.323] And if you think about
[01:18:24.491] a lot of these sort of close
[01:18:25.534] encounters of the third kind,
[01:18:27.619] they often are described
[01:18:29.204] as, you know,
the beings are
[01:18:29.955] sort of childlike in nature.
[01:18:32.207] If you think about
[01:18:32.749] how we're actually evolving
[01:18:34.126] as a species,
[01:18:35.585] you know,
our bodies are becoming
[01:18:36.795] somewhat vestigial.
[01:18:37.796] You know,
we have an abundant amount of resources
[01:18:40.298] that are being distributed to us.
[01:18:41.550] We don't need them-
[01:18:42.426] our morphologies are gonna change
[01:18:43.677] -just wither away
[01:18:44.845] little bit,
[01:18:45.429] and then our brains are becoming
[01:18:46.596] actually more important.
[01:18:47.639] Decision making
[01:18:48.432] is becoming more important.
[01:18:49.725] If we have any sort
[01:18:50.684] of latent intuitive powers
[01:18:52.394] that's going to be more important.
[01:18:53.729] And these things are supposedly
[01:18:55.230] a little more telepathic.
[01:18:56.732] Their eyes are sort of slits.
[01:18:58.358] You're going to have more screen time
[01:19:00.235] going forward.
[01:19:01.361] And so it does feel like that's
[01:19:03.113] kind of the way that we're evolving.
[01:19:08.827] Aliens are weirdly noninterventionist.
[01:19:11.413] In many of the abductions
[01:19:12.706] that get reported, it's
[01:19:13.999] almost like
[01:19:14.583] they have a prime directive to not say
[01:19:16.835] or do too much.
[01:19:18.003] In fact, in many cases
[01:19:19.463] Mike Masters studied,
[01:19:21.006] the abductees had to sanitize
[01:19:22.883] themselves, shower
[01:19:24.217] or do chemical rinses before
[01:19:26.052] boarding the alien craft.
[01:19:27.763] This would make sense as time
[01:19:29.473] travel involves
[01:19:30.265] all sorts of issues
[01:19:31.433] like the grandfather paradox.
[01:19:33.018] You can't go back in time
[01:19:34.394] and kill your own grandfather,
[01:19:35.771] otherwise
[01:19:36.438] how would you exist in the present?
[01:19:40.567] Any little thing you do in the past
[01:19:42.611] might dramatically change
[01:19:44.237] timelines or trajectories
[01:19:45.989] in a way that breaks the present.
[01:19:48.450] So maybe this alien
[01:19:49.618] non-interventionism points
[01:19:51.161] further towards the time travel theory.
[01:19:53.288] Many abductees also report lost time.
[01:19:56.166] Again,
[01:19:56.833] this might be explained by abductions
[01:19:58.710] occurring in another
[01:19:59.586] temporal dimension.
[01:20:10.555] Time’s crazy
[01:20:11.348] because you know,
[01:20:12.349] it's defined at some levels
[01:20:14.184] as the Planck length, right.
[01:20:15.477] It’s the time it takes of
[01:20:17.354] like a photon of light to cross
[01:20:18.855] and you know,
[01:20:19.940] and you know, Planck literally
[01:20:21.733] after discovering the Planck length
[01:20:23.860] thought that that would be
[01:20:24.945] the best way to communicate with aliens
[01:20:26.863] because it's that literally
[01:20:27.781] the shortest length.
[01:20:28.990] It's like, yeah, yeah it's like-
[01:20:30.742] he would joke about that. So yeah.
[01:20:32.661] And it's all relative, right?
[01:20:33.870] It's you know
[01:20:34.454] based on your reference frames,
[01:20:36.164] especially if your near
[01:20:37.040] a gravitational source.
[01:20:38.291] You know,
[01:20:39.125] general relativity
[01:20:40.544] teaches us that the clocks
[01:20:42.462] either speed up or slow down,
[01:20:44.214] you know, based on where they’re near
[01:20:47.926] a gravitational source or not,
[01:20:49.177] you know, 1 over R squared
[01:20:50.637] over distance, you know,
[01:20:51.847] and it comes off
[01:20:52.597] and we've proven
[01:20:53.765] that having cesium
[01:20:54.516] clocks on airplanes in the seventies,
[01:20:56.351] we actually showed
[01:20:57.853] atomic clock differences
[01:20:59.020] based on the force of gravity.
[01:21:01.064] Yeah, time is really not a constant
[01:21:03.191] the way we conceptualize
[01:21:04.943] time, it's not constant at all.
[01:21:06.194] And yet it's
[01:21:07.445] the felt sense of it is constant,
[01:21:09.364] maybe true
[01:21:10.323] ontological reality
[01:21:11.616] time is way trippier than we realize.
[01:21:14.327] And maybe that
[01:21:15.245] speaks to this sort of alien thing,
[01:21:16.913] especially because people seem
[01:21:18.415] to see crafts and aliens
[01:21:20.542] when they're in specific kind
[01:21:22.377] of heightened states of consciousness.
[01:21:24.671] And so maybe time doesn't work
[01:21:27.424] quite the way we think it is.
[01:21:28.717] But in ordinary consciousness,
[01:21:31.511] we sort of snap it into this
[01:21:33.555] kind of linear
[01:21:34.806] classical epistemology
[01:21:36.391] that we experience.
[01:21:36.892] Yeah, that's what
[01:21:37.684] I was trying to espouse upon
[01:21:38.894] when I mentioned
[01:21:39.436] the holographic principle.
[01:21:40.812] If you want to imagine
[01:21:42.314] a 3D objects such as yourself
[01:21:44.232] casting a shadow onto a 2D surface,
[01:21:47.235] that's the holographic principle.
[01:21:48.778] So you can be projected, quasi
[01:21:50.447] projected from higher dimensional space
[01:21:52.490] to lower dimensional.
[01:21:53.366] It’s a scientific trope
[01:21:54.409] that you can actually cross.
[01:21:55.785] Originally,
[01:21:56.202] the holographic principle
[01:21:57.162] was created to explain
[01:21:58.038] how information is encoded
[01:21:59.414] on an event horizon in a black hole.
[01:22:02.292] But like,
[01:22:02.709] maybe that's what we're seeing
[01:22:03.877] is we're seeing higher
[01:22:04.628] dimensional stuff
[01:22:05.503] casting shadow into our space,
[01:22:08.048] just like how we cast a shadow
[01:22:09.424] on a two dimensional surface,
[01:22:10.634] which is like the sidewalk right?
[01:22:13.178] Well, if you were on flat
[01:22:14.387] land, you would have no idea
[01:22:15.722] that this like, crazy 3D monster was,
[01:22:17.557] you know, out there.
[01:22:19.476] But all you're seeing is the shadow.
[01:22:21.144] And it's called quasi projection.
[01:22:22.896] And then maybe some of the
[01:22:23.813] UAPs are not even- they're here.
[01:22:26.650] But they're not actually
[01:22:27.442] from out there.
[01:22:28.443] I cannot show you a tesseract
[01:22:29.945] because I
[01:22:31.112] and you
[01:22:31.821] are trapped in three dimensions.
[01:22:34.032] But what I can show
[01:22:34.950] you is the shadow in three dimensions
[01:22:38.828] of a four dimensional hypercube
[01:22:40.747] or tesseract.
[01:22:42.082] This is it.
[01:22:42.958] Like if it exists outside of 4D
[01:22:46.461] time space or whatever.
[01:22:47.837] Say this is, you know,
[01:22:49.464] you have a 2D universe
[01:22:50.715] and this is a 3D object.
[01:22:52.550] If it intersects, you're
[01:22:53.802] just going to see a sliver of it.
[01:22:55.428] So you'll just see a disk.
[01:22:58.348] So that would make sense,
[01:22:59.391] I think in two ways.
[01:23:00.308] One is that a lot of people
[01:23:01.685] that seem to see crafts
[01:23:02.978] and sometimes quote unquote
[01:23:04.354] go inside of them,
[01:23:05.855] the inside is bigger than the outside.
[01:23:08.191] So Jacques Vallee describes
[01:23:09.275] a woman in San Jose seeing this,
[01:23:11.111] you know, flying saucer.
[01:23:12.278] She walks in, she's in a movie theater
[01:23:13.989] all of a sudden.
[01:23:14.823] It was when
[01:23:15.824] one case in good old San Jose,
[01:23:17.826] a woman had seen something
[01:23:19.953] over her house. It was a big disk.
[01:23:22.497] Then I say, well,
[01:23:23.498] when you went inside, you said,
[01:23:26.626] you know,
there was
[01:23:27.544] this being
[01:23:28.461] and the being took you on a staircase.
[01:23:31.548] I say, where did the staircase go?
[01:23:33.842] Well,
the staircase went up
[01:23:36.094] the side of this big round room.
[01:23:38.388] I say how would you compare it?
[01:23:40.974] Well, like a
[01:23:42.058] like a movie house, you know,
[01:23:43.893] like an amphitheater.
[01:23:45.311] And I said,
[01:23:46.312] that's bigger than your house.
[01:23:48.815] Why is the inside
[01:23:49.941] bigger than the outside?
[01:23:51.192] And so this is a constant
[01:23:52.819] sort of again,
[01:23:53.570] if we're looking for patterns
[01:23:54.779] and that's like a good way
[01:23:55.655] to kind of theorize,
[01:23:57.615] you know, that that would make sense.
[01:23:58.950] If it's this shadow casting.
[01:24:00.577] And that, that
[01:24:02.162] almost sounds like
[01:24:02.662] a physical translation
[01:24:03.747] from lower to a higher
[01:24:04.497] dimensional space.
[01:24:05.498] That seems to be what's going there.
[01:24:07.417] And I don't
[01:24:08.168] I don't know
[01:24:08.710] if we have a good
[01:24:10.003] framework on how to smoothly yeah,
[01:24:12.589] do something like that.
[01:24:13.548] I don't even know.
[01:24:20.180] I think
[01:24:20.889] if anyone would know
[01:24:21.848] about aliens on Earth,
[01:24:23.349] it would probably be me.
[01:24:24.225] He’s hopping on the alien bandwagon
[01:24:26.603] as of the last two days, by the way.
[01:24:28.605] Well he did
[01:24:28.980] and then he goes,
[01:24:29.647] Somebody should win
[01:24:30.398] psy op of the year award or something.
[01:24:32.108] So I don't know what it's like.
[01:24:33.068] What do you think, man?
[01:24:33.860] What's your what's your take?
[01:24:35.195] He was just riding the fear
[01:24:36.446] with the first tweet of like,
[01:24:37.655] I'm not going to say they're aliens,
[01:24:39.074] but like,
[01:24:41.367] yeah, yeah, I'm not sure
[01:24:42.494] what's going on with him.
[01:24:43.620] I think he's probably a little pissed
[01:24:44.954] because he's using chemical propulsion.
[01:24:46.456] Yeah, exactly.
[01:24:47.082] Combustion based propulsion.
[01:24:48.416] We need the Howard
[01:24:49.542] Hughes of our generation
[01:24:50.835] to get access to the good stuff.
[01:24:54.089] I've always
[01:24:54.672] found it
[01:24:55.090] fascinating that America's
[01:24:56.716] real life Iron Man,
[01:24:58.009] its most impressive
[01:24:59.135] industrialist,
[01:25:00.220] seems to be so sure of the fact
[01:25:02.097] that we're in a simulation.
[01:25:03.765] The odds that we're in base
[01:25:04.933] reality is one in billions
[01:25:08.228] but doesn't like entertaining
[01:25:09.521] any possible sightings of aliens.
[01:25:11.689] If we're in a simulation,
[01:25:13.024] why aren’t you doing
[01:25:13.775] any speculating as to who simulated us?
[01:25:16.236] I mean,
if they show up, I'm like, great,
[01:25:17.904] okay, now this is new information.
[01:25:19.989] The conventional story,
[01:25:21.282] especially after
[01:25:22.200] the Copernican revolution, is
[01:25:24.035] that the Earth is a lucky accident
[01:25:25.745] that allows for life.
[01:25:26.830] You do have
[01:25:27.831] sort of weird aspects of reality,
[01:25:29.541] like the anthropic principle,
[01:25:30.875] like the idea of Planck's
[01:25:31.668] constant was slightly different.
[01:25:34.420] Hydrogen bonded with oxygen
[01:25:36.214] in a different way
[01:25:36.965] that didn't form these perfect
[01:25:38.049] crystal structures, ice
[01:25:39.801] wouldn't float above water.
[01:25:41.052] Usually solids
[01:25:41.803] sink below liquids,
[01:25:42.846] and we wouldn't have a habitable earth.
[01:25:45.723] And so you have all these
[01:25:47.016] sort of things in physics
[01:25:48.518] that if they were slightly different,
[01:25:50.311] we wouldn't
[01:25:50.687] have this sort of Goldilocks
[01:25:52.313] perfect habitable zone.
[01:25:53.773] Oh, yeah.
[01:25:54.566] I mean, Earth's like very finely
[01:25:55.900] tuned, right?
[01:25:56.484] The temperature
[01:25:56.985] gradient is just enough.
[01:25:58.778] Is that a coincidence or did
[01:26:00.697] aliens set this up? I don't know.
[01:26:02.157] You can even think
[01:26:02.991] of, like, Heisenberg’s
[01:26:04.159] uncertainty principle
[01:26:05.368] where you can't measure
[01:26:06.202] position and momentum at the same time
[01:26:07.996] as like
[01:26:08.329] a computational caching function.
[01:26:10.748] Oh, interesting.
[01:26:11.541] You can’t compute everything- Yeah.
[01:26:13.459] Your RAM’s not that good.
[01:26:21.009] And maybe if we are in a simulation,
[01:26:23.178] our perceptive capabilities
[01:26:24.804] were artificially limited
[01:26:26.347] by the simulators.
[01:26:27.515] We only see between 400 and 700
[01:26:29.851] hundred nanometers
[01:26:30.727] of the electromagnetic wave spectrum.
[01:26:32.729] We only hear certain frequencies.
[01:26:34.772] That's why dog
[01:26:35.607] whistles are inaudible to humans.
[01:26:37.442] If we really wanted to create safe,
[01:26:39.402] artificial general intelligence,
[01:26:41.196] we might initially experiment
[01:26:42.989] with artificial life
[01:26:44.157] so limited in its perception
[01:26:46.201] that it doesn't even know we exist.
[01:26:48.578] So it definitely can't hurt us.
[01:26:50.079] Forward
[01:26:50.622] looking infrared caught the famous
[01:26:52.415] tic tac video in 2004.
[01:26:54.500] What if we had infrared sensors,
[01:26:56.294] or for that matter, gravity
[01:26:57.754] wave detectors in our pockets?
[01:26:59.631] How many more sightings would we have?
[01:27:01.549] That explains
[01:27:02.425] why UFOs are disproportionately
[01:27:04.385] picked up by military bases.
[01:27:06.512] It's the robust multi-sensory detection
[01:27:09.015] that you find on those bases
[01:27:10.391] that makes all the difference.
[01:27:13.394] There is
[01:27:13.811] no understanding of alien visits
[01:27:17.774] that has them only visit restricted
[01:27:20.443] Navy airspace
[01:27:21.819] to be picked up by pilots.
[01:27:23.988] It’s an observer and collection
[01:27:25.448] bias issue,
[01:27:26.324] where you have all the eyeballs
[01:27:28.284] and all the sensors in those areas.
[01:27:29.744] Sure, that's a good point.
[01:27:30.620] You know,
if you were to do an activity
[01:27:32.372] based intelligence
[01:27:33.581] across the globe,
[01:27:34.499] if we actually can have an open
[01:27:36.584] and honest kind of collection system.
[01:27:38.253] Yeah.
[01:27:39.254] I think we'd probably see
[01:27:40.255] some hot spots
[01:27:41.047] that don't even make any sense.
[01:27:41.923] You know I don’t like throwing shade,
[01:27:43.258] but like Neil deGrasse Tyson, right?
[01:27:44.759] Oh, yeah, He's made up his mind.
[01:27:46.719] I've read his tweets and I'm like,
[01:27:48.888] Dude, you have a Ph.D. in physics?
[01:27:50.348] Where's your curiosity?
[01:27:51.641] I can't even believe.
[01:27:52.934] There's no evidence
[01:27:54.310] that would convince
[01:27:55.395] an authentic skeptic.
[01:27:56.854] I have credentials too
[01:27:58.189] and I'm happy to go
[01:27:59.274] toe to toe with you.
[01:28:00.525] Yeah. If he wants to debate me, I'd be.
[01:28:02.235] I'd be fine with that.
[01:28:07.448] You know, when I started
[01:28:08.116] studying physics in college,
[01:28:09.117] and I became an intel guy,
[01:28:11.035] and I got briefed a lot of programs.
[01:28:13.621] I figured, oh,
[01:28:14.205] I would know if it's a thing.
[01:28:16.874] And I kind of ascribe to the,
[01:28:18.668] you know, the Enrico Fermi thing where,
[01:28:21.337] you know,
[01:28:22.130] wouldn't it be obvious, wouldn’t
[01:28:23.256] they just be flying
[01:28:24.841] and and they wouldn't care
[01:28:26.926] and they would just land and say hello?
[01:28:28.928] But that's like an overly simplistic
[01:28:31.931] thought, you know- humanistic too.
[01:28:33.766] Very humanistic.
[01:28:34.934] You're
assuming that they have
[01:28:36.102] the same kind of intent as us.
[01:28:38.187] You, you assume they operate
[01:28:40.690] in the electromagnetic spectrum
[01:28:42.400] that we can observe normally.
[01:28:44.485] And then also
[01:28:46.237] you're assuming that they would want
[01:28:47.739] this kind of open, obvious
[01:28:50.116] kind of interaction
[01:28:51.367] and they're not doing cover
[01:28:52.994] concealment techniques.
[01:28:54.203] Where they're,
[01:28:54.912] you know,
obfuscating their activity
[01:28:56.414] because maybe they're, you know,
[01:28:58.583] observing us for some purpose.
[01:29:00.460] Or what if they're von Neumann
[01:29:01.753] probes, right.
[01:29:02.587] Do you guys know von Neumann probes?
[01:29:04.005] No. Von Neumann replicators.
[01:29:06.299] Well, just like self-replicating tech
[01:29:09.594] that if that's disposable in nature,
[01:29:11.804] if you're trying to send something out
[01:29:13.056] simple and engineered
[01:29:14.223] to explore the cosmos.
[01:29:16.142] And there's always a question of like
[01:29:17.977] what was the first
[01:29:18.978] self-replicating organism?
[01:29:20.855] I think the big mystery is
[01:29:22.774] how does chemistry turn into biology?
[01:29:25.485] And we have this
[01:29:26.569] these people that say, Oh,
[01:29:27.612] it was just
[01:29:28.029] this primordial soup,
[01:29:29.655] and you had all these chemicals
[01:29:30.740] kind of like floating around
[01:29:32.075] and they've done experiments like this
[01:29:33.576] and never been able to recreate life
[01:29:35.244] through those experiments.
[01:29:36.746] And it's a really open question,
[01:29:38.790] like how did life form?
[01:29:41.376] And I think it's
[01:29:41.918] probably much more trippy
[01:29:43.086] and interesting than like
[01:29:44.796] just a chemical soup,
[01:29:45.755] just the chemicals happen
[01:29:46.672] to bond in a certain way.
[01:29:47.715] It's a happy accident.
[01:29:48.883] And Crick's view was
[01:29:50.259] that DNA could not have emerged
[01:29:52.095] accidentally
[01:29:53.262] from the primeval
[01:29:54.263] soup on this planet
[01:29:55.890] in just 100 million years.
[01:29:57.767] It needed much longer to-
[01:29:59.811] he still bought into the primeval
[01:30:01.771] soup idea, but not on this planet. Yes.
[01:30:03.940] What he came down to was that
[01:30:05.274] there must have been some other planet
[01:30:06.692] somewhere else
[01:30:07.777] where a primeval soup had existed
[01:30:10.530] and there had been enough time
[01:30:12.573] for DNA to emerge
[01:30:14.534] from the accidental bumping
[01:30:15.743] together of molecules.
[01:30:16.536] That's, by the way,
[01:30:16.994] something I'm a bit
[01:30:17.745] skeptical of anywhere.
[01:30:19.288] There's actually a French
[01:30:21.416] kind of evolutionary
[01:30:22.583] theorist and philosopher named
[01:30:24.252] Henri Bergson.
[01:30:25.461] He thought the sun was
[01:30:26.796] somehow essential to evolution.
[01:30:29.298] If you think about it,
[01:30:30.174] that makes sense. Mutations.
[01:30:32.427] You need mutation.
[01:30:33.344] You need genetic mutations
[01:30:34.512] for evolution to occur.
[01:30:35.096] It’s a radiological
[01:30:36.639] you know, it's
[01:30:36.973] at least putting out ultraviolet,
[01:30:38.641] you know. Totally.
[01:30:39.767] Why are we worried about a Japanese
[01:30:42.311] nuclear spill?
[01:30:43.104] What happened at Fukushima
[01:30:44.188] and Chernobyl?
[01:30:44.856] You had an acceleration of
[01:30:46.524] evolution due to radiation.
[01:30:49.694] Maybe the sun is an
[01:30:50.903] extremely sophisticated
[01:30:52.405] nuclear fusion reactor
[01:30:53.698] that powers the earth.
[01:30:55.032] And the Earth's electromagnetic field
[01:30:56.951] was simulated to support life.
[01:30:59.078] Astronauts often have to take Schumann
[01:31:01.330] resonance machines up
[01:31:02.665] with them to space to mimic
[01:31:04.250] the electromagnetic field of the earth.
[01:31:06.252] Otherwise their bodies
[01:31:07.587] often malfunction.
[01:31:08.713] You know,
if you put
[01:31:09.338] a frog embryo in a Faraday cage,
[01:31:13.301] it does not develop normally.
[01:31:15.178] And then if you can change
[01:31:18.389] the cell gradient
[01:31:20.766] of like a tadpole,
[01:31:23.227] where you've severed the
[01:31:24.520] the arm of the tadpole
[01:31:26.230] to the cell gradients
[01:31:27.356] of the head cells,
[01:31:28.274] and you can grow
[01:31:29.025] a, you know, a chimeric
[01:31:30.526] two headed tadpole.
[01:31:32.153] And so there's something around
[01:31:33.738] kind of the electromagnetic field
[01:31:35.156] that is orthogonal
[01:31:37.033] and maybe even upstream of DNA
[01:31:39.035] in terms of morphology.
[01:31:41.245] Yeah, because they've done
[01:31:41.954] an experiment too with
[01:31:44.081] plant growth around
[01:31:45.374] high powerful
[01:31:46.042] wi-fi routers and that actually-
[01:31:47.668] Oh yeah- They don't grow right.
[01:31:50.296] It's like pretty- It’s
[01:31:51.297] actually kind of concerning
[01:31:52.173] I think about the wi-fi in my house.
[01:31:53.424] I’m like, Oh man.
[01:31:54.133] Am I like cooking myself
[01:31:55.343] slowly or something?
[01:32:11.400] What's the name of the llama?
[01:32:12.401] Playboy. Playboy.
[01:32:14.529] I think the name of the llama was Boy.
[01:32:31.629] Over the past days,
[01:32:32.588] you shared with us
[01:32:33.506] that you were diagnosed
[01:32:36.467] to be on the autism spectrum.
[01:32:38.803] How has this served you in your life
[01:32:41.180] and in your career,
[01:32:42.056] and how has it hindered you?
[01:32:44.016] Yeah, I mean, I didn't know, you know,
[01:32:47.979] that I was autistic
[01:32:48.938] until I was like in my early thirties.
[01:32:50.648] So, I mean, it served me
[01:32:51.607] well in the government
[01:32:52.567] because I was super good at,
[01:32:54.318] you know,
doing intel and like, you know.
[01:32:56.320] Dave,
[01:32:56.988] we want you to target this facility.
[01:32:59.991] Okay.
[01:33:00.825] You have six months,
[01:33:01.784] figure out everything.
[01:33:02.660] You know, and of course I do.
[01:33:04.453] And it's, you know, that was very good.
[01:33:05.746] But I think
[01:33:06.831] especially if you're trying
[01:33:07.915] to maintain relationships and stuff
[01:33:09.667] and how to read people's emotions and
[01:33:12.962] and how to show your own emotions
[01:33:14.547] because, you know, autists,
[01:33:15.715] especially if you're,
[01:33:17.800] you know, deeper
[01:33:18.509] in the spectrum when you get Asperger's
[01:33:21.053] and that kind of stuff.
[01:33:22.388] You don't know how to even
[01:33:25.600] present your emotions
[01:33:26.517] in a way to a partner or,
[01:33:28.185] you know, spouse or whatever.
[01:33:29.353] He would come home
[01:33:30.021] and tell me
[01:33:30.730] general stuff and I'd be like,
[01:33:32.773] Yeah, that makes sense.
[01:33:34.817] Yeah, there's probably aliens.
[01:33:36.193] Like that makes sense.
[01:33:39.071] Unfortunately, Dave
[01:33:40.239] can't talk about the backlash he's
[01:33:41.949] received from inside the government
[01:33:43.868] because of an ongoing investigation,
[01:33:45.995] but a good example of a pretty
[01:33:47.622] despicable marginalization
[01:33:49.206] attempt from the outside
[01:33:50.958] was an article written a few weeks
[01:33:52.710] after the hearing by The Intercept.
[01:33:54.712] The article describes
[01:33:55.796] Dave's hospitalization
[01:33:57.089] back in 2018,
[01:33:58.424] an episode of alcohol
[01:33:59.800] consumption and suicidal ideation
[01:34:01.927] that led to a 911 call.
[01:34:03.638] But the article failed to mention
[01:34:05.181] any of the factors
[01:34:06.223] that led to this incident.
[01:34:07.516] You know,
[01:34:08.017] definitely experienced
[01:34:08.851] some really nuts stuff.
[01:34:10.603] Not only has Dave
[01:34:11.646] been very open with us
[01:34:13.272] and other media about his PTSD
[01:34:15.608] from combat experience
[01:34:17.109] and having a close friend die
[01:34:18.736] while on duty.
[01:34:19.612] I had a friend of mine that died
[01:34:20.821] doing the same stuff
[01:34:21.614] I was, you know, six months later
[01:34:23.741] going to the same locations.
[01:34:25.284] He's also discussed
[01:34:26.369] all of the suffering
[01:34:27.370] that's resulted from that experience
[01:34:29.372] and the proactive techniques
[01:34:30.998] he's used to heal from that trauma.
[01:34:32.792] So like EMDR therapy,
[01:34:34.794] HRV breath work, all that stuff.
[01:34:38.005] I was not a believer,
[01:34:39.507] but holy crap,
[01:34:40.216] at least it worked for me.
[01:34:41.175] And I highly recommend
[01:34:42.218] anybody that has issues with that.
[01:34:43.636] Maybe try some of that stuff
[01:34:45.012] because it seems kind of
[01:34:46.389] nontraditional, but
[01:34:48.099] it was very valuable
[01:34:50.685] critiquing the
[01:34:51.352] substance of Dave's argument,
[01:34:53.145] saying that they're high level
[01:34:54.563] or second hand.
[01:34:55.773] That's all within the public
[01:34:57.316] and media’s right.
[01:34:58.401] But this was a clear cheap shot.
[01:35:00.194] A low blow.
[01:35:01.237] And one that I suspect
[01:35:02.655] was probably driven
[01:35:03.698] by a political ulterior motive.
[01:35:05.825] Concealing the truth.
[01:35:16.419] People will
[01:35:16.961] like send me memes, or like TikToks.
[01:35:21.173] I'm like, yep, that's that's mine.
[01:35:25.386] Have you in your time in the Navy,
[01:35:26.846] have you ever seen something
[01:35:27.930] that you couldn't
[01:35:28.848] explain or something
[01:35:30.224] that we have a cabin
[01:35:31.016] up in the mountains
[01:35:31.851] and our former neighbor,
[01:35:34.645] he was so into seeing UFOs.
[01:35:36.981] And he moved to Roswell, New Mexico
[01:35:40.276] because he wanted to be close.
[01:35:42.153] He claimed he did see something.
[01:35:50.411] Another question
[01:35:50.995] that I always get is like,
[01:35:52.246] why is it always an American thing?
[01:35:53.998] Like, why is it
[01:35:54.957] why is this always happening
[01:35:56.041] in America?
[01:35:56.709] The phenomenon is global 100%
[01:35:58.836] like I mean,
[01:35:59.253] you look at Aeriel schools.
[01:36:00.504] Russians have reported stuff.
[01:36:02.131] The Chinese have what they call
[01:36:04.592] the journal of UFO Research,
[01:36:07.303] which is
[01:36:07.720] a published periodical
[01:36:09.638] in the People's Republic of China.
[01:36:11.599] And you got to remember,
[01:36:13.184] you know,
[01:36:13.851] the CCP does not allow fringe beliefs
[01:36:17.980] and, you know, it's
[01:36:19.482] basically tacitly endorsed
[01:36:21.066] and allowed to-
[01:36:22.359] since I think the late nineties
[01:36:23.652] I want to say.
[01:36:24.445] Do you think the Three-Body Problem
[01:36:27.406] kind of the dark forest
[01:36:28.449] analogy of aliens
[01:36:29.950] was maybe sort of a form of soft
[01:36:31.619] disclosure from the Chinese government?
[01:36:33.412] I mean, I don't know for sure,
[01:36:35.498] but they've allowed this sci
[01:36:37.291] fi series to be published
[01:36:38.375] by this Chinese author,
[01:36:40.002] that's like pretty trippy.
[01:36:41.712] And I don't know,
[01:36:43.297] maybe that's a way
[01:36:43.964] for the Chinese government
[01:36:45.007] to acclimatize the populace.
[01:36:47.593] Do note in the South China
[01:36:49.220] Morning post,
[01:36:50.137] I want to say it was June 2021
[01:36:52.306] and they had an article like,
[01:36:53.557] Oh yeah, we have a UAP task force too.
[01:36:55.601] We're using
[01:36:56.185] AIML to look at UAP sightings,
[01:36:58.687] and that's really been their own overt
[01:37:00.397] messaging on UAP,
[01:37:02.316] at least to an English
[01:37:03.234] speaking kind of audience.
[01:37:04.568] Oh, yeah, we understand
[01:37:05.486] that's a problem.
[01:37:06.070] We have a task force too.
[01:37:08.823] Isn't what's happening in Ukraine
[01:37:10.324] kind of an argument
[01:37:10.991] against the practical application
[01:37:12.785] of these technologies?
[01:37:14.495] Because if either side wanted
[01:37:15.788] to kind of definitively win,
[01:37:17.706] and you had this kind of
[01:37:19.166] faster than light travel thing.
[01:37:20.501] Well you'd have to be willing to
[01:37:23.295] reveal your ace in
[01:37:24.046] the hole
[01:37:24.630] tech, because once you use it,
[01:37:26.465] then you burn it.
[01:37:27.216] And then now everybody knows. Gotcha.
[01:37:29.134] Perhaps this is a good time
[01:37:30.594] to talk about the frame
[01:37:31.762] of the public debate on UFOs,
[01:37:33.931] which is frustratingly stupid
[01:37:35.850] and simplistic.
[01:37:36.767] It's frozen between a sensationalist,
[01:37:38.853] indiscriminate belief
[01:37:40.020] in everything and smug,
[01:37:41.939] elitist dismissiveness.
[01:37:43.482] The whole conversation is basically,
[01:37:45.568] is this a psyop or is this real?
[01:37:48.195] The answer is it's both.
[01:37:50.114] Those two things aren't
[01:37:51.365] mutually exclusive.
[01:37:52.700] In fact,
[01:37:53.367] if the phenomena is real,
[01:37:55.119] there are more likely to be psyops
[01:37:56.954] surrounding it.
[01:37:57.746] And those psyops
[01:37:58.664] are going to be more effective
[01:38:00.416] if the phenomena is real.
[01:38:02.084] And yeah,
[01:38:02.793] if there are vehicles in the sky
[01:38:04.295] running circles around
[01:38:05.379] American state of the art fighter jets,
[01:38:07.590] do you not think the government
[01:38:09.049] would try to get in
[01:38:09.758] front of that narrative,
[01:38:10.843] and at times
[01:38:11.635] use it for its own purposes?
[01:38:13.262] We know the Air Force
[01:38:14.388] tried to marginalize
[01:38:15.431] UFOs with Blue Book, but later in 1979,
[01:38:18.684] the Air Force
[01:38:19.393] drove a man crazy
[01:38:20.686] by playing up his belief in aliens.
[01:38:22.605] Paul Bennewitz I'm
[01:38:23.731] sure you're- are you familiar with him?
[01:38:25.232] I've heard about it, yeah.
[01:38:26.942] He, you know, saw
[01:38:28.903] some strange craft activity
[01:38:30.821] and didn't know what it was.
[01:38:32.406] And Richard Doty, who is an Air Force
[01:38:35.075] disinfo guy, was kind of assigned to
[01:38:38.746] screw him up mentally.
[01:38:42.875] So we know UFOs are part psyop.
[01:38:45.169] That's old news.
[01:38:46.378] The real question is,
[01:38:47.922] is this only a psyop?
[01:38:49.632] Because if it is, it cuts
[01:38:51.216] against everything we know about
[01:38:52.885] our pretty dysfunctional government.
[01:38:54.762] It's basically the best
[01:38:55.930] psyop of all time.
[01:38:57.181] It runs across government agencies
[01:38:59.224] that don't always get along.
[01:39:00.643] Presidents on both sides of the aisle,
[01:39:03.145] fighter pilots and radar operators
[01:39:05.272] who adhere to a culture of humility.
[01:39:07.650] And of course, hundreds of thousands,
[01:39:09.735] if not millions of average civilians.
[01:39:12.446] The null hypothesis
[01:39:13.989] that this is purely
[01:39:15.199] a psyop is almost harder to defend than
[01:39:18.327] just admitting the existence
[01:39:19.870] of non-human intelligence.
[01:39:21.372] But you shouldn't blindly trust me
[01:39:23.624] or Dave Grush for that matter.
[01:39:25.334] Do your own research.
[01:39:29.797] Talk about
[01:39:30.339] I mean, you have
[01:39:30.756] people like Steven Pinker who are like,
[01:39:32.299] This is the best we've ever had it.
[01:39:34.259] I think that's BS.
[01:39:35.219] So maybe violence
[01:39:36.220] is at an all time low,
[01:39:37.304] but it's because we have nukes now.
[01:39:38.681] So any war is
[01:39:39.556] mutually assured destruction.
[01:39:41.100] And so if
[01:39:41.976] there's a world
[01:39:42.935] beyond the material world
[01:39:44.770] and that can somehow be accessed
[01:39:46.855] or communicated
[01:39:47.773] with in any possible way,
[01:39:50.150] it might be a sort of a crazy
[01:39:51.819] Hail Mary,
[01:39:52.695] but you got to throw the Hail Mary now.
[01:39:54.863] You can't run the ball.
[01:40:00.285] Is there
[01:40:00.703] something you would like to say
[01:40:01.537] directly to someone- On the program?
[01:40:03.539] Yeah, no, if you're on the program,
[01:40:05.916] I understand empathetically, you know
[01:40:09.086] the risks,
[01:40:10.504] what you put yourself through.
[01:40:12.423] We're trying to create a time
[01:40:13.924] where we can get this out there,
[01:40:16.343] recruit better people,
[01:40:18.762] hopefully protect those
[01:40:19.888] who want to go forward.
[01:40:20.806] If you want to go forward,
[01:40:22.266] there is a legal process
[01:40:23.892] either through PPD 19,
[01:40:25.352] if it's an intel thing-
[01:40:26.895] there's other inspector general's.
[01:40:29.189] You do have the right to go directly
[01:40:31.025] to Congress.
[01:40:31.692] And then, of course,
[01:40:32.151] some of the senior leaders
[01:40:33.110] that have
[01:40:33.861] known about this stuff,
[01:40:35.320] and I understand they were in positions
[01:40:37.865] where they had to make decisions
[01:40:39.283] just like anybody else,
[01:40:40.868] and they're not the top of the pyramid.
[01:40:43.078] I think the time is right to submit
[01:40:44.830] maybe your final legacy
[01:40:46.331] and to help out,
[01:40:47.666] even though I know
[01:40:48.459] there will be some admittance of,
[01:40:52.212] you know, maybe decisions
[01:40:53.005] you've made that you wish in the past
[01:40:55.466] maybe you didn't make.
[01:40:56.300] But I think it's time to move forward.
[01:40:59.094] And I think we'll be stronger
[01:41:00.220] as a as a nation and as a world.
[01:41:04.475] I think it's going to enhance
[01:41:05.517] national security,
[01:41:06.769] enhance peer competition policing,
[01:41:10.230] so that people aren't doing things
[01:41:11.774] unethical and immoral.
[01:41:12.816] If everything's in secret,
[01:41:14.735] everybody can get away with things
[01:41:16.403] that might be illegal
[01:41:17.237] , unethical, immoral.
[01:41:19.615] And hold our adversaries
[01:41:21.492] accountable publicly,
[01:41:22.826] if this is a thing that we acknowledge.
[01:41:25.079] And once again,
[01:41:26.413] nuclear physics, broadly studied.
[01:41:28.207] Nuclear weapons development,
[01:41:30.167] that's classified.
[01:41:31.543] So that's and that's all I have to say.
[01:41:33.545] It just said, just come on.
[01:41:34.755] Do you think in some ways
[01:41:35.589] UFOs are like a Rorschach test?
[01:41:38.133] And the way I mean that is that,
[01:41:41.929] you could use them as an auspice
[01:41:43.806] to sort of clamp down
[01:41:45.432] and create one world
[01:41:46.725] government or something.
[01:41:47.768] And create,
[01:41:48.185] you know, extra surveillance
[01:41:49.686] and say, you know, this
[01:41:50.354] is this big threat.
[01:41:51.355] And, you know,
[01:41:52.022] we're not at the top of the food chain
[01:41:53.607] and they're apex predators.
[01:41:54.942] And, you know, we've to be careful.
[01:41:56.693] Watch your step.
[01:41:57.903] Or they can be incredibly libertarian
[01:41:59.863] because it's like actually,
[01:42:01.865] you know,
[01:42:02.282] terrestrial governments
[01:42:03.367] aren't as powerful
[01:42:04.660] maybe as we thought that they were.
[01:42:07.246] And, you know,
[01:42:09.081] I think it could go in
[01:42:09.790] either direction. Yeah.
[01:42:10.749] Or it's just like
[01:42:11.583] they're just simply waiting
[01:42:12.459] until we like generally care
[01:42:14.670] about that.
[01:42:15.712] We've just like
[01:42:16.672] we look at it we're like, huh
[01:42:18.048] that's interesting.
[01:42:18.924] And then we go about our day
[01:42:20.300] and then we don't even integrate
[01:42:22.010] the phenomenon into our lives
[01:42:29.226] in terms of people's reaction to this.
[01:42:31.812] Look, I'm angry about possible white
[01:42:35.065] collar crime, especially,
[01:42:36.608] you know, people
[01:42:37.234] possibly being driven crazy
[01:42:38.944] or to their death.
[01:42:39.611] That's horrible. Yeah.
[01:42:41.113] And then I also think on
[01:42:43.365] some level,
[01:42:43.907] people are too focused on government
[01:42:46.910] kind of recrimination.
[01:42:48.203] It is time for transparency.
[01:42:49.955] Transparency. Transparency.
[01:42:51.665] Transparency.
[01:42:52.416] And not on the fact
[01:42:53.500] that this is the nature of reality.
[01:42:56.211] These things might make you
[01:42:57.379] a biblical literalist.
[01:43:01.675] Do you believe that
[01:43:03.886] the phenomenon is the next
[01:43:05.387] big great religion in the world?
[01:43:07.139] Yeah, basically.
[01:43:08.557] The phenomenon has probably already
[01:43:09.808] influenced
[01:43:10.392] all the other religions already,
[01:43:11.685] so it's just
[01:43:12.686] maybe we're looking at the source code.
[01:43:14.104] Yeah.
[01:43:14.479] If you're looking at the source code.
[01:43:15.814] We're at the graphic user
[01:43:16.732] interface level,
[01:43:17.608] It's like IP header
[01:43:19.443] and we're getting into
[01:43:20.611] finally getting
[01:43:21.195] into the information flow.
[01:43:24.698] In her book,
[01:43:25.365] American Cosmic, Diana Pasulka
[01:43:27.451] makes the pretty convincing case
[01:43:29.411] that many seemingly divine
[01:43:31.205] contact experiences in the past
[01:43:33.457] could have actually been what we now
[01:43:35.167] call UFO experiences.
[01:43:36.793] Just take the case of Saint
[01:43:38.086] Francis of Assisi.
[01:43:39.213] His close
[01:43:39.796] confidant, Brother Leo, documents
[01:43:41.965] the experience describing
[01:43:43.759] and fury, creating atmospheric sparks,
[01:43:46.511] a spinning disk,
[01:43:47.679] telepathic communication
[01:43:49.264] between Francis and the disc.
[01:43:50.891] And then Francis is wounded
[01:43:52.726] by rays of light.
[01:43:53.977] Francis interprets these hand wounds
[01:43:56.146] as the stigmata of Christ.
[01:43:57.898] But Pasulka speculates
[01:43:59.441] that maybe this was just radiation
[01:44:01.360] damage from a UFO experience.
[01:44:06.448] I was reasonably religious,
[01:44:07.908] but nothing like crazy,
[01:44:09.493] kind of average. Studied physics.
[01:44:12.037] I became kind of agnostic.
[01:44:13.538] I was like, Eh,
[01:44:14.206] I don't know about this,
[01:44:14.831] all this kind of woo
[01:44:15.999] woo stuff
[01:44:17.459] that the church espouses and stuff.
[01:44:19.211] And then
[01:44:20.128] oddly enough,
[01:44:21.296] I've kind of come full circle
[01:44:23.799] in some sense
[01:44:25.300] where there is this higher sentience,
[01:44:28.804] there seems to be,
[01:44:31.056] I think
[01:44:31.473] we're created beings in some manner,
[01:44:33.725] whether it be some panspermia
[01:44:35.185] from little G gods or big G gods.
[01:44:37.271] I think about the people,
[01:44:38.438] the journey I had
[01:44:39.856] and the most random people
[01:44:41.984] that I've known
[01:44:42.943] that were placed in my life
[01:44:43.902] like 14 years ago,
[01:44:45.279] you know
shut the door in my office at NGA like,
[01:44:47.572] Look dude.
[01:44:48.573] And you know, they started telling me
[01:44:49.950] all this stuff that I was
[01:44:51.243] and they brought these,
[01:44:52.035] like, crazy intel reports.
[01:44:53.328] I guess I was kind of the right guy
[01:44:55.080] that was chosen to do this thing,
[01:44:56.873] I guess. But.
[01:44:57.874] So yeah, I've come full circle
[01:45:00.168] in my belief system.
[01:45:05.090] for me it's inspiring
[01:45:06.508] because it's like this idea
[01:45:07.926] that it's just,
[01:45:08.969] you know, eat, drink
[01:45:09.970] and be merry or whatever.
[01:45:11.263] You know, you just, you
[01:45:12.222] you live, you pay taxes,
[01:45:13.515] you work a job, and then you die.
[01:45:15.350] That's meaning of life.
[01:45:16.351] And just like the Vatican Observatory
[01:45:17.978] saying, yeah,
[01:45:18.562] we're like cool
[01:45:19.271] with other sentient life
[01:45:20.939] that shows God paints
[01:45:22.441] a, you know, broad brush.
[01:45:23.400] And that's pretty cool.
[01:45:25.235] Catholic Church
[01:45:25.902] is very accepting on that
[01:45:27.154] and it just shows
[01:45:29.072] God's providence and God's
[01:45:30.741] creative powers
[01:45:31.742] if there's actually other
[01:45:33.493] interesting sentience besides us.
[01:45:35.704] It would be it's like,
[01:45:36.496] you know, what was it
[01:45:37.122] a in the movie Contact.
[01:45:39.333] It's a total waste of space
[01:45:40.751] if it's just us, right?
[01:45:42.002] It's like the famous line in the movie.
[01:45:43.920] Carl Sagan was a great communicator,
[01:45:45.589] probably one of the best. Yeah.
[01:45:47.132] He also met a lot with Kit
[01:45:48.550] Green towards the end of his career,
[01:45:51.345] got very into UFOs.
[01:45:52.429] Yeah.
You were telling me that
[01:45:53.347] I didn’t even know that.
[01:45:54.639] So you can count on Jesse
[01:45:56.350] to tell you these weird facts.
[01:45:58.477] Yeah.
I thought
[01:45:59.019] I had a lot of useless knowledge,
[01:46:00.896] and this guy’s like-
[01:46:02.856] It's not useless, but it's
[01:46:05.275] pretty
[01:46:05.734] useless until now.
[01:46:09.529] This is like the mega interview.
[01:46:11.114] We’re covering
[01:46:11.656] every potential trippy / esoteric
[01:46:15.619] / conspiratorial thing at once.
[01:46:19.539] This justifies me
[01:46:21.041] being paranoid in my room,
[01:46:23.502] reading about weird shit
[01:46:25.420] and being criticized by friends
[01:46:26.922] and colleagues for years.
[01:46:28.090] Yeah, this is like.
[01:46:29.049] This is more
[01:46:29.633] you educating me
[01:46:30.675] than me saying anything for
[01:46:33.136] right now.
[01:46:33.678] So yeah, so it's kind of cool. Yeah.
[01:46:36.473] Always learning something
[01:46:37.808] when I'm talking to you.
[01:46:38.642] And sometimes I'm
[01:46:39.226] like hanging up the phone,
[01:46:40.435] you call me and I'm like,
[01:46:41.478] I don't know about this guy.
[01:46:44.523] I think he's like, really going deep.
[01:46:47.150] I think he’s losing his grip.
[01:46:50.529] Yeah, but.
[01:46:51.655] Oh my God.
[01:46:53.990] That was a crazy hummingbird.
[01:46:55.492] That was a crazy hummingbird.
[01:46:56.827] Maybe it’s a DARPA spy
[01:46:58.161] cam or something.
[01:46:58.787] Oh, man, that's a good sign bro.
[01:47:00.747] That shows my mind versus yours.
[01:47:04.918] It brings science and religion together
[01:47:07.254] in a way that these two things
[01:47:08.713] have been sort of
[01:47:10.382] cleaved or bifurcated
[01:47:12.008] since the Enlightenment.
[01:47:13.844] This can possibly reconcile
[01:47:15.554] those two things,
[01:47:16.263] which would be absolutely amazing.
[01:47:18.140] Where you can read the Bible
[01:47:19.724] and you can say some of this stuff
[01:47:20.892] could actually happen
[01:47:21.977] in the context of aliens-
[01:47:23.145] Like panspermia, creationism.
[01:47:25.439] This might actually prove
[01:47:26.648] certain religious texts
[01:47:27.941] and what they've espoused with like,
[01:47:29.776] you know, little G gods.
[01:47:31.027] And at least for me,
[01:47:32.863] you know,
spiritually, at least,
[01:47:34.906] my belief
[01:47:35.407] system, it’s
[01:47:35.949] certainly opened my eyes to the,
[01:47:39.327] you know,
[01:47:39.870] the universe is not clockwork.
[01:47:41.705] Everything we see in our
[01:47:42.956] day to day life is not
[01:47:45.125] everything that exists.
[01:47:46.585] And if there's truly other
[01:47:47.836] sentient intelligences,
[01:47:49.254] I mean, it just inspires my curiosity.
[01:47:51.465] Like I'd like to know
[01:47:53.008] that their belief systems are
[01:47:54.426] and how
[01:47:55.302] maybe we'll find out that
[01:47:56.261] that matches with ours
[01:47:57.387] and it actually bolsters our, you know.
[01:48:00.140] Maybe we can ascend to- per your video
[01:48:03.727] in the Berkshires.
[01:48:04.769] Yeah, well, you want to repeat it?
[01:48:06.730] Yeah.
I mean,
[01:48:07.939] the end result was was
[01:48:09.566] that is the universe ignoring us?
[01:48:11.943] Because we're not at their level yet.
[01:48:14.070] We haven't reached that
[01:48:16.031] height of awareness
[01:48:18.116] as a society, as a people.
[01:48:19.117] Is this an opportunity
[01:48:19.993] for us to examine ourselves,
[01:48:21.703] to figure out why
[01:48:23.330] we have not been a part of this
[01:48:25.540] bigger ecosystem?
[01:48:27.125] Interesting friend visiting us.
[01:48:31.963] Non-human intelligence,
[01:48:32.506] non-human intelligence.
[01:48:33.673] We have evidence
[01:48:35.175] of non-human intelligence.
[01:48:38.470] One of the most powerful
[01:48:39.721] witness testimonies that I've seen
[01:48:41.348] in all of the interviews
[01:48:42.390] that I've consumed over the past
[01:48:43.767] three years was
[01:48:45.268] one of the girls
[01:48:46.186] from the Ariel school case, when Dr.
[01:48:49.689] John Mack was interviewing her.
[01:48:50.857] And he's trying to understand
[01:48:52.150] how the telepathy was working.
[01:48:53.860] And then she goes out of nowhere:
[01:48:55.695] I think in space there's no love,
[01:48:57.822] but down here there is.
[01:48:59.074] Well, that's like
[01:49:01.034] the near death
[01:49:02.452] experience is like Proof of Heaven,
[01:49:04.996] by Eben Alexander, Medical Doctor.
[01:49:08.542] Yeah.
[01:49:09.334] He has a very interesting scientific
[01:49:11.294] outlook of his near-death.
[01:49:12.420] And that was like this, like
[01:49:14.548] overarching, like, loving energy.
[01:49:18.051] Something when he ascended to this-
[01:49:19.886] it sounded like another,
[01:49:20.762] like, dimensional plane, if you will.
[01:49:22.264] He had basically
[01:49:23.974] a fasciitis of the brain
[01:49:25.475] where it was like, you know,
[01:49:26.977] he was probably going to be brain dead
[01:49:29.020] if he even survived.
[01:49:30.605] But he miraculously came back
[01:49:32.107] and he was totally fine.
[01:49:33.108] But all this knowledge
[01:49:34.859] and all the stuff he experienced.
[01:49:36.319] That's a super common thing
[01:49:37.696] in alien abduction experiences,
[01:49:39.906] whether it's the Aeriel school
[01:49:41.491] or Commander George
[01:49:43.326] Hoover of the Navy
[01:49:44.327] actually talked about this.
[01:49:45.537] Aliens often come down,
[01:49:46.621] they say,
[01:49:47.122] you don't know how powerful you are.
[01:49:48.999] You don't know how amazing and powerful
[01:49:51.793] you are.
[01:49:52.627] And in a lot of mystery rituals, like,
[01:49:55.589] you know,
[01:49:56.006] Eleusinian mystery rituals and others,
[01:49:59.134] you experience sort of noesis.
[01:50:00.802] Or it's often accompanied
[01:50:02.512] by a kind of a near-death experience
[01:50:04.097] or something.
[01:50:04.723] But you experience knowledge
[01:50:06.308] of your primordial soul
[01:50:08.226] and you get this sort of loving state,
[01:50:10.395] and then you come back down
[01:50:11.938] and there is this sort of à la
[01:50:14.024] Jesus translation function issue.
[01:50:16.943] Where, you know,
[01:50:17.819] he was known to speak in riddles
[01:50:19.154] and mysteries.
[01:50:20.530] There was a great book
[01:50:21.239] actually called Flatland by
[01:50:23.199] Sir Edwin Abbott.
[01:50:24.284] That’s super classic, yeah.
[01:50:24.868] In the late 19th century,
[01:50:26.578] where it's like
[01:50:27.037] if you were a 3D person
[01:50:28.580] speaking to a people in Flatland
[01:50:30.915] on a 2D plane.
[01:50:32.375] Or, you know, Plato's cave.
[01:50:34.628] Like you see the light, you come down,
[01:50:36.338] you can't really tell people
[01:50:37.964] and then you get persecuted.
[01:50:39.257] Well, yeah,
[01:50:39.716] he said he had this knowledge.
[01:50:41.801] He understood it
[01:50:42.677] when he was in that plane.
[01:50:44.596] But when he came back
[01:50:45.597] and was trying to verbalize it
[01:50:47.015] and write it down,
[01:50:48.433] he could not find the human words
[01:50:51.311] to translate it.
[01:50:52.812] It's like almost like our
[01:50:54.939] our symbol rate is too slow
[01:50:57.233] to communicate
[01:50:58.985] the information effectively.
[01:51:06.534] We're living in a
[01:51:07.118] very interesting time.
[01:51:08.953] Yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes.
[01:51:11.206] And you're
[01:51:12.165] playing a massive part in it,
[01:51:13.458] so I appreciate everything.
[01:51:14.918] Your service
[01:51:15.794] just on a fundamental level,
[01:51:17.420] you know,
[01:51:17.879] and you're a real example
[01:51:19.964] of like a modern Mr.
[01:51:21.049] Smith Goes to Washington
[01:51:22.759] and you're not doing it in this sort of
[01:51:25.095] totally reckless
[01:51:26.096] wrecking ball sort of way.
[01:51:27.597] You’re going
[01:51:28.223] through the proper processes
[01:51:30.225] and doing things legally.
[01:51:31.976] But also you have agency
[01:51:33.520] and you're doing it
[01:51:34.145] strategically time after time again.
[01:51:37.565] People just get like
[01:51:38.400] neutered when they're in government
[01:51:39.943] and you are doing a big thing
[01:51:42.195] so that it's
[01:51:43.154] cool for young people to see.
[01:51:50.662] Thank you Dave.
[01:51:51.371] Thank you for everything, man.
[01:51:56.167] we talked about a lot of shit.
[01:51:59.587] Ladies and
[01:52:00.004] gentlemen, Neil Armstrong.
[01:52:03.174] Today we have with us
[01:52:05.719] a group of students
[01:52:07.095] among America's best.
[01:52:08.972] There are great ideas, undiscovered.
[01:52:12.350] Breakthroughs available
[01:52:13.935] to those who can remove one of
[01:52:17.897] truth's protective layers.