Tim Gallaudet on AARO, Navy UAP emails, and the UAP Science Advisory Council

• Source: The Good Trouble Show with Matt Ford, "Pentagon UFO Office AARO Tried to Turn a Navy Admiral. 'I Know What You're Doing' - Tim Gallaudet"
• Speakers: Matt Ford and Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet, USN (retired)
• Published: 2026-09-09
• Runtime: 58:59
• URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN1EMbDCX3Y
• Audio: 58:58.512, 37,617,034 bytes, SHA-256 2ef73828b524a38d19c96f6dd264db0f0a46c8fe8e700713116d774d99ada1e3
• Production transcription: FreeTranscribe.org production pipeline, submitted through /code/transcribe on 2026-09-10. NVIDIA Parakeet TDT 0.6B v3 revision 7c35754d166cca382ad1e53e68b01e7c575f3a1d, model-weight SHA-256 3cbdc85877e668ca7b82d0d56770eb1fac76691f55d6b97545e8d61ca588d10d, artifact schema 2.
• Diarization: pyannote Community-1 revision 3533c8cf8e369892e6b79ff1bf80f7b0286a54ee, model-weight SHA-256 40db4c5c43e32f542825fb6a7f6e541168c4f3fee9745637748e22c90f5d5001, returned two anonymous speaker clusters. Exact production timing and diarization remain in /code/transcribe/gallaudet-good-trouble-aaro-2026-09-09-production.segments.json.
• Published transcript: complete manual English YouTube captions retrieved with youtube_transcript.py --timestamps. The caption track is used because the production transcript omitted a substantive passage at 47:54-48:33 and part of the opening. Beginning, midpoint, ending, identities, runtime, and the remaining material agree across the two transcripts.
• Sourced: 2026-09-10
• Analysis: ../../sources/gallaudet-public-statements and ../../topics/kirkpatrick-and-aaro

The transcript below preserves the supplied caption wording and speaker labels. It may contain errors in names, acronyms, punctuation, and speaker assignment.

TL;DW

Matt Ford interviews retired Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet about his leadership memoir before turning to UAP. Gallaudet adds that Jay Stratton told him Navy email messages carrying the 2015 UAP videos were removed because the objects might have been foreign technology requiring higher classification, and says acting AARO director Tim Phillips called Chris Mellon's criticism of AARO's historical report "full of shit" during a two-and-a-half-hour meeting Gallaudet regarded as an influence operation. He says the UAP Science Advisory Council works at the unclassified level rather than being a White House council, supports lifting restrictions so Eric Davis and other NDA-bound witnesses can brief it, and considers the Disclosure Act's eminent-domain provision negotiable if that is necessary to pass the broader disclosure process.

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[00:00:00.336] [Matt Ford] The Pentagon's UFO office invited a retired Navy rear admiral in for a friendly chat.
[00:00:07.004] [Guest] But then we start— we started talking about UAP, and I asked him about Chris Mellon's critique of the historical records report, and he told me that Chris Mellon was full of shit. It was an influence operation.
[00:00:18.385] [Matt Ford] They picked the wrong rear admiral.
[00:00:20.951] [Guest] And I sat with Tim Phillips for a while. He was the acting director. I called him out. I said, I'm an information warfare officer in the Navy. I know exactly what you're doing.
[00:00:30.472] [Matt Ford] Former Navy rear admiral Admiral Tim Gallaudet on what they wanted him to believe and his new book. Everybody, welcome to The Good Trouble Show.
[00:00:43.655] [Matt Ford] I'm Matt Ford. This admiral has been here twice to tell you what the government wouldn't on UAP. Today he joins us to discuss his book, Holding Fast in Heavy Seas: Leadership for Turbulent Times.
[00:00:57.850] [Matt Ford] Please welcome retired Navy Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet. Admiral, how are you, sir? Nice to have you back on the show.
[00:01:05.293] [Guest] It's great to be here, Matt. Everything is very busy right now, but I think productive.
[00:01:10.403] [Matt Ford] Yeah, absolutely. I, I have to say, um, reading this book, uh, Holding Fast— Holding Fast in Heavy Seas: Leadership for Turbulent Times, I read the thing front to back and I, I absolutely loved it.
[00:01:26.662] [Matt Ford] It's been 6 weeks now. How has the book landed?
[00:01:31.546] [Guest] Well, quite well. In fact, I'm really honored that so many people have reached out to me to say exactly what you said, because it took me 5 years to write, and I evolved as a writer, and I had to rewrite a lot, a lot of it.
[00:01:44.314] [Guest] And, but every word and day I spent writing, I had the intent of really having a response like you, that you— it helped, gave you insights about what it takes to be a servant leader And, and it's all out there.
[00:01:57.980] [Guest] I mean, everything from my early days in the Navy and many times falling short, uh, just on the big stage at NOAA, a huge federal agency in charge of it, and the challenges that I faced working for President Trump.
[00:02:11.756] [Matt Ford] And we're going to walk through all of that here on, here on the show. And of course, we'll talk about the UAP issue, but we're primarily here to, to discuss this, this fantastic book.
[00:02:20.896] [Matt Ford] I'm curious, Admiral, is Did you find out anyone that really surprised you that read it, that you were like, wow, I can't believe that person read it and then they made some sort of, reached out to you or just said the same thing, how much they loved it?
[00:02:37.413] [Guest] Oh, a number of people. I have had people overseas reach out to me, both in the ocean science world and the UAP community. In fact, one of the leaders of the UAP group in Ireland sent me a note on LinkedIn and actually wrote a review for their website
[00:02:53.128] [Guest] and he was heaping tons of praise on, on the book for its content. None of it, I mean, none of his, his review was really about the UAP part of the book, which is very small.
[00:03:03.329] [Guest] So that was shocking. And then I've had other friends overseas. I've had my Naval Academy classmates reach out to me, which I didn't expect, but was very nice to have.
[00:03:12.532] [Guest] And then junior and senior scientists who I work with at NOAA, one of them I had I had a really good relationship with. He was the chief scientist of this group called the National Marine Sanctuaries, which is like the National Park System but underwater that NOAA manages.
[00:03:26.924] [Guest] And he was their chief scientist and has been a scuba diver for 50 years.
[00:03:32.246] [Matt Ford] Wow.
[00:03:32.485] [Guest] And he, yeah, a marine biologist, seriously scientific credentials. And he just said he couldn't put it down and enjoyed it. And he actually said, I wish I had read this before.
[00:03:42.616] [Guest] I would have been a better leader when I was in the government if I had had this book. Resource available to me. So that, that was really uplifting.
[00:03:51.423] [Matt Ford] And of course, most people know you now for your UAP advocacy, fighting for disclosure, for the government to be transparent on this. What made you decide to write something like this where there's really kind of a very small portion of it is the UAP issue?
[00:04:09.180] [Guest] Yeah, well, first off, I love to read stories by people. I think people are interesting, and I read a book by the CEO of Disney, the former CEO CEO of Disney, Bob Iger.
[00:04:19.776] [Guest] And it's a great— it was a great autobiography called The Ride of a Lifetime. Pretty appropriate for the CEO of Disney, and having grown up near Disneyland myself.
[00:04:29.156] [Guest] And, uh, but it was such a good book. It was very human, and it was about his leadership tips, basically. And he divided it into two parts.
[00:04:38.023] [Guest] The first half he titled Learning. And interestingly, he started out as a broadcast meteorologist for some local station in New York. Yeah, yeah, I had no idea.
[00:04:47.819] [Guest] Having been a meteorologist myself, it was right, you know, kind of got my, got my attention. And then, then, and then he works his way up in, in the media industry, then takes over Disney.
[00:04:58.848] [Guest] And I love the part about Disney, and that, that's part 2, was titled Leading. And it was how he said he was such a strategic thinker, and during his time he had, he had the vision to form these strategic partnerships that were so vital to advance Disney in
[00:05:14.581] [Guest] this new media era. So he's formed partnerships with Stan Lee of Marvel Comics, George Lucas, Star Wars, Jobs, Steve Jobs, Apple, and Pixar, and all these others.
[00:05:25.805] [Guest] And every time he met with these big personalities, usually the previous CEO of Disney, when he was trying to do this, it was two guys with giant egos getting in the room and there wasn't enough room for both of them.
[00:05:37.463] [Guest] And Bob Iger would always check his ego out of the door and say, look, I don't need to be the one who owns the conversation.
[00:05:43.975] [Guest] I just know we want the same outcome. And as long as we're clear on the vision and agree, have at it. And you can tell me and dictate the terms.
[00:05:50.637] [Guest] And I thought that was such a great way to lead. And so I ended up writing a similar story, but my story. And it's a story of ocean science and adventure, part 1 in the Navy, all the great people I learned from, really amazing leaders.
[00:06:04.312] [Guest] And then part 2, applying it at NOAA, a science agency under Trump, which was, as you can imagine, had a number of very unique challenges.
[00:06:13.119] [Guest] So that was the overarching motivation right there.
[00:06:17.398] [Matt Ford] And that's what I think I really enjoyed the most about the book is really getting a window into your leadership style and all of the things that happened during your naval career that brought you to this point where you are now.
[00:06:32.588] [Matt Ford] And of course, some really big career milestones that we'll talk about in a second. But I really wanna start at where you began with all of this.
[00:06:41.564] [Matt Ford] So you get into the Naval Academy, Annapolis, class of 1989, and this is one of the hardest places in the country to get into.
[00:06:50.843] [Matt Ford] And then almost day one, they give you a colorblindness test. What happened there?
[00:06:59.466] [Guest] I'm color defective. I can't see certain shades of red and green. And I should have not even gotten in. And, uh, the thing is, is— and this is just one of these life stories where I took the physical in high school to get into the academy, and when
[00:07:15.826] [Guest] I did, it was in California at a Navy medical clinic. And I remember like yesterday this very attractive young female corpsman is giving me the test, and when we get to the color vision test where it's called the Ishihara test, where it's a bunch of color dots on
[00:07:32.677] [Guest] a page, and they all make out a number. They're very different colors, and they'll make out a number, let's say in red or gold, you know, 13, 7, 8.
[00:07:40.502] [Guest] I, I can't see one of those numbers in that test ever. And, uh, so that's just— and that means I'm color defective. Anyways, the, uh, the corpsman started coaching me through it, and, and I didn't know.
[00:07:52.050] [Guest] She said, do you see the outlines of an 8 or a 3 there? And I'd say, okay. And she just ended fudging the whole test for me.
[00:07:58.687] [Guest] And so, and then I show up and they were gonna kick me out, but turns out I was the fastest prep school swimmer in the country in the 500-yard freestyle.
[00:08:08.221] [Guest] And, you know, an NCAA Division I school, the academy has a big athletic program. So they set me aside, figuring out what to do.
[00:08:17.146] [Guest] The coach finds out, he contacts the athletic director and they say, you know, let's give, we're gonna give this guy a waiver. It never happened before.
[00:08:24.372] [Guest] They didn't know what to do. So they get— I had to waive, waive the, the basically the commissioning outcome for me, that rather being a line officer, which is the type that serves on submarines, aircraft, and ships, I would go and become a restricted line officer, something the
[00:08:39.482] [Guest] Academy normally doesn't graduate to. And, and the areas of I could work in would be either intelligence, medical, or oceanography, which is, which is the whole reason I applied to the Academy, is I wanted to work in oceanography.
[00:08:51.818] [Guest] So I ended up in a really ironic way getting exactly what I wanted to do, even though I shouldn't have been there in the first place.
[00:08:59.235] [Guest] And it's just sort of the nature of life. Sometimes it's just better to be lucky than good. And also with that corpsman, sometimes you have to bend the rules.
[00:09:09.894] [Guest] Bending the rules could result in a positive outcome.
[00:09:13.186] [Matt Ford] Absolutely. And clearly it did. And years later, you talked a ship's navigator into letting you qualify as officer of the deck. Despite your colorblindness.
[00:09:24.003] [Matt Ford] Talk a bit about how being colorblind actually helped you in other ways that most people would never have thought of.
[00:09:33.799] [Guest] You're very kind, Matt. You did read the book, all right, so thank you.
[00:09:36.716] [Matt Ford] I loved it.
[00:09:37.280] [Guest] Yes, well, and that was the point of the color vision test and not having that deficiency, because you need to see what they call ships' running lights at night.
[00:09:48.167] [Guest] Aircraft have them too. And usually you have a red light on the port side and a green light on the starboard side and white lights and other places around the ship to know, give you an idea of what side of the ship you're looking at at night.
[00:09:59.929] [Guest] And so, yeah, safety of navigation is the whole purpose. However, this is a funny thing. When you go on Navy ships and you want to apply to work on the bridge driving the ship, usually it's hard.
[00:10:10.690] [Guest] The navigator is in charge of maintaining the watch bill, and people are so busy on ships It's just hard to keep that watch bill staffed.
[00:10:19.101] [Guest] And so going in saying, hey, I really want to stand watch, the navigator basically said, hey, if you can breathe oxygen, you're going to be on the watch bill.
[00:10:26.355] [Guest] And ultimately, he knew that I would use the whole bridge team to determine the lights at night. And I did. It made me a much better watchstander because I always get second opinions from every watchstander on the bridge.
[00:10:37.554] [Guest] Is that like a red and white light? And what's the target angle of that ship? And I was very hypervigilant. Vigilant, and I ended up being the senior OOD on the aircraft carrier I served on, as well as the amphibious assault ship, being what they call sea and
[00:10:52.410] [Guest] anchor OOD when you take the ship in and out of port, as well as the general quarters OOD during combat operations.
[00:10:58.505] [Matt Ford] There was one point, I think, where was this? So 2003, and you've got the con of the aircraft carrier at Kitty Hawk, and you're transiting the Straits of Malacca, if I'm saying that correctly, and another destroyer destroyer turns the wrong way and he's coming right at you.
[00:11:16.552] [Matt Ford] I mean, tell us about that. That had to have been a really harrowing experience.
[00:11:21.446] [Guest] Well, it was. And again, all these experiences really shaped who I was as a leader. And being— and this experience was one of those things where, uh, it's a— where you, you know, very dangerous, uh, rapidly evolving situation.
[00:11:35.376] [Guest] And so we had a plane— uh, pardon me, a ship about 1,000 yards on our port bow And it was the Curtis Wilbur, a destroyer.
[00:11:42.048] [Guest] And then as we were getting into the Straits of Malacca, this is, you know, 2003— pardon me, yeah, 2003, early 2003, before we launched the first strikes on Iraq after that.
[00:11:54.659] [Guest] And so high-threat environment, the bombing of the USS Cole made it such that we were watching every ship and boat as potential attack vectors for us, threat vectors.
[00:12:05.668] [Guest] And so we, as we got into this narrow strait, we launched a helicopter with .50 caliber machine guns to basically ward off any boat that got close.
[00:12:14.822] [Guest] And we launched the helicopter and standard procedure is for a destroyer or other ship to take what they call plane guard station behind us on our stern in case the helicopter crashed, it could recover the crew.
[00:12:27.221] [Guest] And so as the ship on our port bow ahead of us, pretty close though, because of the narrow strait, was supposed to turn left and go around us to get to our stern, and instead it turned right.
[00:12:40.333] [Guest] And it ended up coming so close that the aircraft carrier— we're on the bridge, you're 100 feet above the waterline, and so you're looking at the forward bow, and the bow of this ship is a flight deck, and there's a shadow zone that you can't see on the
[00:12:54.500] [Guest] bridge of water that's about 800 feet long. So the bow of this destroyer disappeared under our, under our flight deck. You can imagine that view.
[00:13:04.456] [Guest] And it was, it was the same thing that happens when you read about people in combat situations, they're getting shot at. Time totally slows down.
[00:13:12.341] [Guest] You are, and you have a million thoughts and you can do a million things. So I gave all the orders to turn the ship, accelerate, sound the collision alarm, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:13:22.525] [Guest] And then I still had all this time in my head to think about what was gonna happen. And, you know, knowing I was likely going to be investigated and probably found partially at fault.
[00:13:32.274] [Guest] And, and, and I was, I was mostly thinking that I was going to kill all these sailors, that we would cut that ship in half.
[00:13:37.701] [Guest] And we would have, and it would have resulted in probably the horrible deaths of every, almost everybody on that ship. And thank God, uh, she, she, what they call shifted her rudder and, and turned port and just avoided us.
[00:13:54.350] [Guest] I can't even imagine what it must have looked like for that on the bridge of that ship as we were barreling down on her.
[00:14:00.125] [Guest] And, uh, but, um, and so experiences like that, that just made me, I guess, thankful for not having, uh, that one outcome that was a possibility.
[00:14:09.846] [Guest] And two, just, uh, being prepared for any kind of contingency as I, I moved forward in my career.
[00:14:17.884] [Matt Ford] Real quick, folks, I want to stop right here for one second. If you're not subscribed hit that button, ring the bell, leave a comment, give us a thumbs up.
[00:14:25.822] [Matt Ford] And here's the part they don't tell you: YouTube just started shutting off phone notifications for people who subscribe but don't watch. So the bell isn't enough anymore.
[00:14:36.690] [Matt Ford] You actually have to show up, watch our show once a month for the notifications to work. I don't know why YouTube did that, but when you do that, YouTube sees all of that and it says to itself, hey, maybe we should recommend this Good Trouble Show to people
[00:14:50.572] [Matt Ford] who don't know it exists yet. We're actually losing subscribers, so, because of this new YouTube policy. So we would appreciate it if you could help us out in that way.
[00:15:01.328] [Matt Ford] Also, you can find us on all the major podcast platforms if you like to listen to us on the go. And last thing— last thing, I can't talk today, I promise— we have no sponsors on this show.
[00:15:12.245] [Matt Ford] Zero. We are kept alive entirely by people people like you. If you want to help pay the studio rent, we are on Patreon at www.patreon.com/TheGoodTroubleShow.
[00:15:20.967] [Matt Ford] We very much would appreciate it. So let's get back to our interview with Admiral Gallaudet. And I, I think what a lot of people don't understand is a lot of these straits, it's, it's, it's packed.
[00:15:37.721] [Matt Ford] I mean, you're, you're passing within, within feet of other ships, right?
[00:15:42.193] [Guest] But that's right. And in fact, it was even worse in the Arabian Gulf as we were doing the first strikes into— conducting the first strikes into Iraq during Iraqi Freedom, because we had 3 US Navy aircraft carrier strike groups all in the Arabian Gulf, not a giant body
[00:15:56.371] [Guest] of water. Then you had this steady stream of sealift bringing all the armor and materials for the Army and Marine Corps and Air Force into Iraq.
[00:16:05.732] [Guest] And then you had all the— merchant traffic and big tankers and small little Arab— Arabian dhows. And I am still amazed that none of the Navy ships during that operation was in a collision.
[00:16:19.567] [Guest] It was very tight quarters.
[00:16:23.773] [Matt Ford] In the book, you're really very, very candid about some of the struggles as a Navy professional, the hardships on on your family. And what, what I really, really touched me, your wife Karen.
[00:16:39.202] [Matt Ford] So, you know, so she was a Naval Academy graduate, I think it was '91, and this is back, as I understand it, when the Academy had just begun accepting women into the Academy.
[00:16:51.638] [Matt Ford] And, and as I understand it, right as the Navy was opening its, its ships to women, she goes on a ship. I believe what, she was a Navy diver, correct?
[00:17:06.670] [Guest] That's right. She was a Navy diving and salvage officer. So she earned her diving pin and her surface warfare pin, both hard jobs, and very much respect her.
[00:17:17.284] [Guest] She was not the first woman diver and first woman to be on a combatant— or she was not a combatant— on a Navy ship, but she was in that decade that was one of the first.
[00:17:28.719] [Matt Ford] And at this point, as I understand it in naval history, she was victim to pretty profound sexual harassment that, as I understand, was fairly prominent at the time.
[00:17:40.675] [Matt Ford] How did watching that, what she went through, how did that shape the kind of leader you became?
[00:17:48.701] [Guest] Yeah, it influenced me in a big way because it made me appreciate that I had it really good. And for the most part, I've been very privileged.
[00:17:57.239] [Guest] And in her experience, first at the Academy, the harassment there— and my daughter's a midshipman right now, and it's gotten a lot better, much better, and I'm really glad to see the program as it is now.
[00:18:08.778] [Guest] But for Karen's era, who entered in 1987, the harassment and the old boy network was, was well in place and unfortunate. But so there was that, and then it was really bad on her ship because her ship was a a non-diving officer, surface warfare officer, and he
[00:18:26.915] [Guest] had a, he really had an axe to grind against the divers on the ship. And Karen was the only woman. And this is, this is again, 1991.
[00:18:34.672] [Guest] We were not as where we should have been as a Navy back then. And so the harassment was really bad for her. And it was traumatizing.
[00:18:45.396] [Guest] And she definitely had PTSD from it and still does. In fact, but I did is though, like in every other part of my book where I faced some challenge, I took that as a resource and I tried to grow stronger and be better because of it.
[00:18:59.963] [Guest] And as a leader at NOAA and in the Navy, I was very proactive about promoting gender equality and not equity, but equality, meaning everyone has a fair share, is on the same playing field and can compete equally.
[00:19:13.420] [Guest] And merit would be what earns people their advances. And so, but I was very vocal about any kind of discrimination against women. Certainly, I have 3 daughters, that's more energy for that.
[00:19:25.843] [Guest] And yeah, so she get— I wanted to turn that around and make good of it. And so I spoke often about it, and a lot of our women scientists at NOAA were appreciative.
[00:19:36.904] [Guest] And I put in place policies and procedures to better protect their their rights as well as prevent any kind of harassment and any kind of reprisal because of it.
[00:19:52.707] [Matt Ford] In July 2014, you pin on your first star, Rear Admiral, and you're the— actually, I understand you were the first in your class for that to happen. Is that right?
[00:20:04.817] [Guest] Yeah, it was one of those things where I had a couple— I had a deep selection as a Lieutenant Commander, which means I promoted early.
[00:20:11.644] [Guest] And then, and then it was timing. As for the flag billet that I was going to take, the officer who I relieved got picked early to go to another job.
[00:20:22.346] [Guest] And so that accelerated it. So basically, I think I promoted 2 years ahead of everybody else in my class. And it was interesting. So first of all, of course, it's very rewarding.
[00:20:33.721] [Guest] I was glad that I knew my parents would just be delighted. Karen would be just thrilled, and it was something every professional aspires to, that kind of high point in your career.
[00:20:45.584] [Guest] And, and, um, there was that feeling, but the other feeling I had was, was two. One is I really felt awful for all my colleagues and fellow captains who, uh, who competed for it as well, and, and they weren't going to get it.
[00:20:59.203] [Guest] These were my buddies who I served with for years. And the other conflicting emotion I had was Holy heck, I hope I can measure up.
[00:21:07.241] [Guest] Don't let me screw up, God. It's something I prayed a lot then and at NOAA.
[00:21:12.262] [Matt Ford] I remember in the book you spoke about, I had it marked here somewhere, but I think it was your boss or somebody when you became Admiral said that it was time for you to take a big humble pill.
[00:21:26.045] [Guest] What did he mean by that? So this was the Chief of Naval Operations, John Greenewald, and I met with him and he was, He was a great leader.
[00:21:34.101] [Guest] He was recognized recently as a distinguished alumni of the US Naval Academy, which is a very elite group. But he, and it's interesting, 'cause so a tradition in the Navy that's really neat, when you make flag officer admiral, many of the admirals around the Navy, I got dozens
[00:21:50.277] [Guest] of these letters, write you a nice letter, they sign it personally, saying, "Great job, welcome to the wardroom." They call it the flag wardroom, like the wardroom on a ship where all the officers reside and dine.
[00:22:00.894] [Guest] And, and it's all very— and they'll provide little anecdotes about their, their promotion and what, whatnot. And I always offer to help, always offering to help.
[00:22:10.614] [Guest] And so his letter was different. It said basically, congratulations on your promotion or selection. And then, and that's pretty— and then he just basically said what you said.
[00:22:20.106] [Guest] Now it is time to take a big, humble, all capital letters, pill. And, and I, I knew what he was getting at because every time a flag officer makes a mistake do any kind of conduct, personal misconduct, or anything legal.
[00:22:36.865] [Guest] It's, it's well advertised, and the news coverage is pretty extensive. And I always studied those cases, making sure I just don't ever want to do that or be close to that.
[00:22:47.099] [Guest] And he was serious about it because he was responsible for every other admiral in the Navy. And he didn't want— he just would not tolerate anything but top performance and perfect behavior.
[00:22:58.807] [Guest] And I thought that was I thought that was the right thing to do, and it got my attention.
[00:23:03.817] [Matt Ford] I'll bet it did. Okay, so in, I think, 2017, after— I think you had been in what, the Navy 30, 32 years, something of— I mean, you'd been in there for a while when you retire, right?
[00:23:17.936] [Guest] Yeah, that's right, 32.
[00:23:19.463] [Matt Ford] Okay, so you exit the Navy, and then you take a political appointment at NOAA, the National Oceanic Atmosphere Theoric Administration. Did I get the acronym right? Correct.
[00:23:31.248] [Guest] Well done, yes.
[00:23:32.673] [Matt Ford] Okay, so you get this political appointment at NOAA. How did that come about? How did you land there?
[00:23:39.019] [Guest] Well, this was a good lesson there, Matt, because I ended up— a colleague of mine was on the transition team. He was a meteorologist, or he was in the meteorology community, and I didn't know him very well.
[00:23:52.192] [Guest] I remember I had met him maybe at a conference once or twice, but it's interesting because he ended up nominating me as a transition team member for the Department of Commerce to go— actually, he called me, "Hey, do you want to be the NOAA administrator?" And I thought,
[00:24:09.252] [Guest] "Oh my gosh, I never even thought that was possible." And I knew NOAA very well, and I thought, "This is a great job. I would love that, yes." And so, and they teamed me up to do that, and basically I got nominated to be the deputy administrator.
[00:24:24.020] [Guest] Then I served as the acting administrator because the nominee never got appointed. And so there I was. And it's interesting because I barely knew the person, but he had watched me.
[00:24:34.713] [Guest] And it proved to me something that I think for early career professionals, they should pay attention to, that every time you speak, write an email, have a phone call, a personal conversation, you're really in a job interview, you know, for all intents and purposes.
[00:24:51.846] [Guest] And so that it's really wise to be thoughtful and deliberate about what you say and what you write. And he'd seen me and he'd listened to me speak.
[00:25:00.307] [Guest] And I think he obviously liked what he saw.
[00:25:03.117] [Matt Ford] So you're in this new job, you're a career sailor and suddenly you're running one of the biggest science agencies in the country. What was that first day like? Take me back to that.
[00:25:19.241] [Guest] Well, yes, I got into the NOAA, or pardon me, the Department of Commerce building. NOAA has two different offices, basically. They have their headquarters in Silver Spring, and then they also have a place at the Department of Commerce building.
[00:25:31.628] [Guest] And I swore in with some staff members of the Secretary of Commerce. And yeah, and I take my seat and start getting to work and meeting people.
[00:25:42.159] [Guest] And then, yeah, and it's interesting because my, the Deputy Chief of Staff, who was a great guy, basically wrote an email for me to send out to everybody in the organization, which included contractors.
[00:25:52.789] [Guest] So it was about 20,000 recipients. And he wrote me this really, I would say, cautious and dry letter saying, I'm glad to be here, you know?
[00:26:04.063] [Guest] And I thought, oh my gosh, I can't, That is so unme. And so I rewrote it in all my normal language, if you will, so it was authentic and people wouldn't know it really came from me and the words were mine.
[00:26:15.256] [Guest] And that just ended up starting a pattern that I would always write my own correspondence. And that got noticed over time.
[00:26:24.335] [Matt Ford] In December 2018, so you're at NOAA, the government shuts down for, I think it was 35 days. It was one of the longest in history, if not the longest.
[00:26:32.134] [Matt Ford] 6,000 of your people at NOAA are literally working unpaid. They're working long hours. These are forecasters through, of course, this sort of dangerous winter period.
[00:26:45.101] [Matt Ford] You wrote them a letter. What happened when it went up the chain?
[00:26:50.101] [Guest] Yeah, and this gets into a lot of the leadership, I guess, experiences I had at NOAA that— yeah, I was trying to work like I did in the Navy, as a servant leader.
[00:27:00.645] [Guest] But when you're a political appointee, And it's way worse now, by the way. Generally, the environment is such that the White House basically wants you to shut up and color.
[00:27:11.200] [Guest] And I'm not joking about this. Seriously. Yeah, 100%. And so it's really difficult to get out there ahead of your skis, ahead of their skis, really.
[00:27:22.887] [Guest] And so I was operating from a very politically naive standpoint. And I just wanted to be like my colleague, the Coast Guard Commandant, and other admirals I served with who were out there speaking up for their people.
[00:27:36.710] [Guest] So, yes, I wrote a letter to all employees at NOAA saying basically— not talking about the cause of the shutdown, which was basically Trump wanted to put money in the budget for a border wall, but Congress wouldn't allow it, and there was a feud.
[00:27:49.176] [Guest] And so, of course, the government— the federal employees got held hostage with the shutdown. And so I said nothing about those circumstances. I just said, hey, look, as leaders working to resolve the issue so that you, primarily the National Weather Service and others, all these other employees who
[00:28:06.180] [Guest] are working without pay, can get paid. And so I gave that to the Deputy Secretary of Commerce and she looked at it and I'm sitting at her desk and she just basically slid the letter right back to me and said, This is not only a no, it is
[00:28:22.186] [Guest] a hard no.
[00:28:22.996] [Matt Ford] Hard no.
[00:28:24.321] [Guest] Yeah, because she didn't want to look crossways with the administration and the White House, which I get now. But to me, it just, it was hard not to be vocal and supportive of our people when they were really experiencing difficulty.
[00:28:42.626] [Matt Ford] It was sometime after this, if I remember right, that I think you might have had a meeting with the Secretary of Congress's— was it the Secretary of Commerce or the Chief of Staff where he calls you in for a meeting and the meeting did not go well, I
[00:28:57.865] [Matt Ford] guess?
[00:28:58.570] [Guest] No, yeah, it was the Chief of Staff and I got fired. I got fired as the administrator. It's a miracle because I really should have just gotten let go permanently.
[00:29:08.886] [Guest] And I write about this in the book. The reason they didn't fire me outright they kept me as the Deputy Administrator is because I had a guardian angel in Senator Roger Wicker, who at the time was the Commerce Committee Chairman.
[00:29:23.419] [Guest] And of course, NOAA is in the Department of Commerce, so the Commerce Committee carries great weight, and the Secretary and his staff did not want to run afoul of Roger Wicker.
[00:29:33.569] [Guest] And Roger Wicker said basically, "Yeah, keep him around, he can do some good work for you." And that's the only reason I still continue to work at NOAA for a few more years.
[00:29:45.367] [Matt Ford] So you leave NOAA in, I think, 2021, which, about 5 years ago. You've worn the star in the Navy and led as a civilian at NOAA, and you really took a lot of hits along the way, but you overcame.
[00:29:59.133] [Matt Ford] And I think that was one of the themes that really struck me in this book is, you have these challenges, but you— and I've known you for a bit, and knowing you, this doesn't surprise me at all, just kind of the way you carry yourself and
[00:30:17.559] [Matt Ford] your positivity. All of these really sort of trials and tribulations really made you who you are today in terms of how you treat people and how you look at challenges and how you choose to lead.
[00:30:32.394] [Matt Ford] Looking back, are you glad all of those things happened?
[00:30:38.148] [Guest] Oh, I am. And I, I won't, uh, I won't make a spoiler here and talk about all those challenges because our family had a number of serious crises, as you read about.
[00:30:47.942] [Guest] I had that, that time at NOAA where I got fired was not the only difficulty I had. I had several in there. I felt, and I write in the book, I felt like I was a cat on its 9th life by the time I left NOAA.
[00:31:01.961] [Guest] And so ultimately, but every time I had learned this from great mentors throughout my career, that adversity can make you stronger. And what you need to do is you need to just accept it when it happens and do your best to soldier on, if you will, and
[00:31:20.121] [Guest] then learn from it and grow and become better. And that's really, I think, I guess the hallmark of resiliency is to turn the challenges into ways to overcome in the future.
[00:31:32.794] [Guest] And that's really what the book's about. The title, Holding Fast in Heavy Seas, just epitomizes the entire storyline. And I'm grateful for the challenges.
[00:31:42.063] [Guest] And here we are, we are in this whole arena of UAP disclosure, not without its challenges either. As you very artfully addressed during all your episodes.
[00:31:52.330] [Guest] And that's what I'm trying to apply to this whole, this whole discussion is that we need, we need some leaders that can be looked to for leadership and, and I think inspiration and I think resolve, because that's again, in the book, I
[00:32:10.778] [Guest] faced roadblock after roadblock personally and professionally. And that's how we have been for the last few years. And the opportunities arise and we seize them when we can.
[00:32:21.726] [Guest] And that's kind of— and that's really it. I think the book is not, again, a UFO book, but it certainly describes, I think, some of the ways to move forward as a community to obtain the knowledge and the truth that we seek.
[00:32:39.622] [Matt Ford] Admiral, you bring up UAP, and of course I want to turn to what your best known for in many of your, your interviews. Uh, you of course testified in front of, in front of Congress.
[00:32:50.909] [Matt Ford] So for— and I know you've told this story a million times, so we'll just kind of gloss over it— but in 2017, there are 3 Navy videos that went public.
[00:32:59.851] [Matt Ford] Uh, yeah, the Tic Tac, Gimbal, Go Fast. There was the New York Times article that these videos were part of. And these are all objects that trained Navy pilots couldn't identify.
[00:33:12.528] [Matt Ford] And in 2020, the Pentagon officially confirmed that these were indeed anomalous, or, or UAP. You had a front row seat to all of this as a, as a flag officer.
[00:33:24.955] [Matt Ford] This email came across the network, the, the classified network SIPRNET, flagging an urgent safety of flight issue during a training exercise where you guys are doing these workups off the coast These are very compact amounts of time to check off a lot of boxes before
[00:33:43.107] [Matt Ford] the carrier strike group goes on deployment. And the following day, you look on your classified email server, and all of these emails are gone.
[00:33:55.279] [Matt Ford] They're swept off of the network. And you note in the book that in the weekly meetings, literally nobody mentioned it again. Do you know whether the aviators during that time period, did they keep encountering this stuff?
[00:34:09.297] [Matt Ford] That's one of the things I think most people don't know one way or the other. Did this continue? Did it continue and they're simply, those emails were no longer getting to you because they were flagged as being as part of a SAP?
[00:34:25.063] [Matt Ford] What do you know about what happened after that?
[00:34:28.652] [Guest] Right. So exactly. The emails were wiped from my computer. And I know, I know now after having discussed this with Jay Stratton, who was aware and involved, that the reason they pulled all the emails with the GOFAST video, for example, from the Navy secret network is they weren't
[00:34:44.853] [Guest] sure at the time if that was the GOFAST and all the other UAP. The GOFAST, by the way, was part of a formation of several UAP, I think 4.
[00:34:53.396] [Guest] And Ryan Graves has testified to all of this and spoken about it, because he's one of those pilots flying off the Roosevelt, that they brought everything, they pulled everything because that's the standard procedure when they take a higher classification level, a piece of data or information is passed
[00:35:10.871] [Guest] on a lower classification network. And so it was a secret network, but they weren't sure the UAP were foreign adversary tech or not. And foreign adversary tech, foreign material acquisitions, always at a very high classification, TS almost all the time.
[00:35:26.679] [Guest] And so that's, that's why they did that. Later they learned, okay, that, that's not our adversary in the training range. And it's obviously been well documented now, like the Tic Tac, that, that those objects weren't ours or anybody who we know.
[00:35:43.054] [Matt Ford] That's one of the things that you'll often hear from some of the professional debunkers from Mick West and elsewhere that these were vehicles that were, or balloons I think is what he said, that were used in that training range.
[00:35:59.349] [Matt Ford] Does that ever happen where the captain and people like yourself would have no idea that blue force equities were being tested within a carrier strike group workup area?
[00:36:13.320] [Guest] It's not even a remote possibility, Matt. It's restricted airspace for a reason. And we're talking a few hundred miles out at sea. So it was no civilian balloon.
[00:36:23.545] [Guest] It was no Navy surveillance balloon. Not at all. Not even a possibility. Recall the pilots were experiencing these often. And when you listen to the audio of the GOFAST video, the pilots are going nuts because they've been trying to track this thing and lock it in for a
[00:36:39.599] [Guest] while. And, and, and they're, and they're, they're very inquisitive and curious. What the hell is that thing? Just like the gimbal. These are trained observers, and so there was nothing— they know what birds look like, you know, and balloons, and a balloon.
[00:36:53.675] [Guest] So it's, it's, uh, really, uh, I think comical to make those statements. There's another thread here that I'll go back to, the Tic Tac, uh, and it should be highlighted, okay, because I've spoken about this I think part of the government's longstanding disinformation campaign is to put out
[00:37:10.699] [Guest] there through these debunkers that that was, that was DARPA or maybe Lockheed Martin tech, the Tic Tac. And there's, there's so many reasons that that's not the case.
[00:37:20.842] [Guest] Okay. But first off, David Fravor and the pilots know what they saw. And this, the acceleration to the cap point, nearly instantaneous. And so there's, there's real, their observing capabilities are, I think, are to be credited, because remember, eyewitness
[00:37:39.161] [Guest] testimony holds up in a court of law. Now there's, there's that. The other reason that technique— if that technology existed in 2004, it would have been used on the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[00:37:49.751] [Guest] We would have seen, we would have seen elements of it, just like I think like stealth technology came out, or was, was, I think elements of it were, I think, reports of it.
[00:38:03.659] [Guest] And finally, when the programs became acknowledged decades later. We understood what the B-2 was, for example, and, and F-117. So that, that hasn't happened, and it's been 22 years.
[00:38:15.923] [Guest] Okay. And the other thing is that if you'll recall, there's a, there's a backstory here that I attended a lecture by Sean Kirkpatrick this year.
[00:38:24.740] [Guest] And this year— yeah.
[00:38:27.449] [Matt Ford] Oh yes, yes, I, I saw this.
[00:38:29.775] [Guest] Yeah. This was the National Capital Area Skeptics organization, and he was giving a lecture, and I thought, let's go see what he has to say.
[00:38:38.768] [Guest] So I sat in on person, and this has been documented on social media, where I questioned him on a statement he said about my hearing.
[00:38:46.382] [Guest] But ultimately, during that exchange, he again doubled down on the claim that the Tic Tac was DARPA tech. Okay, let me tell you this.
[00:38:54.976] [Guest] If DARPA had that kind of technology and was in the process of transitioning it, they would not be allowing Sean Kirkpatrick to say that in an unclassified public setting.
[00:39:07.490] [Guest] That stuff would be so tightly classified. It's ridiculous. So there's, there's a real active disinformation campaign that has been in existence. And I guess my question is, to what extent now that I'm on the UAP Science Advisory Council, Is that going to continue or not?
[00:39:25.353] [Guest] That remains to be seen.
[00:39:27.199] [Matt Ford] Admiral, speaking of disinformation, as I understand it, the Pentagon's UAP, UFO office, AARO, the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office— see, I wouldn't have done well in the military with all of the acronyms.
[00:39:41.233] [Matt Ford] I understand that they really made a concerted effort to convince you that that this was blue force stuff, blue force equities, that it wasn't UAP.
[00:39:53.208] [Matt Ford] Tell us a bit about that.
[00:39:56.192] [Guest] Yes, I don't remember the date. I'm thinking it was 2023. I came in there, it was after I was invited by the Navy liaison who was a friend of mine and I worked with for a while in the Pentagon.
[00:40:05.175] [Guest] And Tim Phillips was the acting director, and who I respect. I'll tell you right now, I'm not here to disparage anybody. I didn't but I'll call the meeting as I saw it.
[00:40:17.030] [Guest] And Tim was actually explaining a good deal about the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I really felt for him because it was such a botched operation on the part of the administration.
[00:40:27.105] [Guest] Yeah. But so he's a professional. I respect that. But he also said, I'm a Title 50 guy, which means he's involved with— but yeah.
[00:40:36.681] [Guest] So AARO invited me to speak. It was their Navy liaison who was a friend of mine. And I sat with Tim Phillips for a while.
[00:40:44.110] [Guest] He was the acting director. Sean Kirkpatrick had already left. And I have respect for Tim. He was involved with the Afghanistan withdrawal, which was really screwed up by the Biden administration, and he had to deal with it.
[00:40:55.784] [Guest] But then we started talking about UAP, and I asked him about Chris Mellon's critique of the historical records report. And he told me that Chris Mellon was full of shit.
[00:41:05.835] [Guest] And so—
[00:41:06.880] [Matt Ford] Wow.
[00:41:07.827] [Guest] I didn't know how to reply to that, to be honest with you. And of course, of course, because when he met with me, he said, I'm also a Title 50 guy, which means counterintelligence.
[00:41:17.472] [Matt Ford] Yep.
[00:41:17.728] [Guest] So I think that was the bit— that was the whole beginning of the rest of the meeting that was attempting to basically turn me and my thoughts.
[00:41:27.679] [Guest] And it was an influence operation for all intents and purposes. So he argued about that historical record report being accurate. And then he also argued about the Tic Tac being US tech.
[00:41:40.920] [Guest] Actually, it was his people. I had left his office, and, and they were— they worked me hard. I was there, I was on a Friday before a holiday, I believe, and, and I was supposed to be 90-minute meeting, and it turned out to be about 2 and a
[00:41:53.244] [Guest] half hours. Uh, they were really— they were— they wanted to change my mind, and I, I laughed at them. I called them out. I said, I'm an information warfare officer in the Navy.
[00:42:06.777] [Guest] I know exactly what you're doing.
[00:42:08.414] [Matt Ford] Right.
[00:42:08.896] [Guest] Yeah. They refused to acknowledge that.
[00:42:13.313] [Matt Ford] It just blows me away. And again, it's like counterintelligence, information operations, these are jobs. Just because somebody's doing it doesn't mean they're a bad person.
[00:42:25.081] [Matt Ford] What's maybe part of their job or what people up the chain are telling them to do. But that whole thing really, when you told me about that, really resonated with me.
[00:42:37.394] [Matt Ford] And something you said earlier when I asked the question whether it was a possibility that the Tic Tac and all these things observed during that time period were blue force equities or balloons or some other ridiculous statement.
[00:42:54.793] [Matt Ford] I vividly remember Tim Phillips, and this obviously was after he exited AARO, he goes on this podcast. And I suspected that this would probably be a sort of communication strategy from the government, that in the
[00:43:12.858] [Matt Ford] end they're gonna try and tell all of us that this is all, next-gen blue force, red force tech, and that that's what we've been seeing.
[00:43:20.927] [Matt Ford] And let's not talk about, talk about the sins of the past. But I remember Tim Phillips, he goes on this podcast and he says something along the lines of, we have things that would blow your mind.
[00:43:35.722] [Matt Ford] We have vehicles that are the size of a Klingon battleship or something like that. Something like that. And I'm listening to this thing and I'm thinking to myself, okay, this guy's a career intelligence professional, Title 50 guy, as
[00:43:53.891] [Matt Ford] you mentioned, and you're telling me he's going to go on a public podcast and reveal probably one of the crown jewels of our armed forces, something that is certainly a SAP or an acknowledged SAP.
[00:44:10.342] [Matt Ford] There's no way a career intelligence official who knows darn well the repercussions for making what's called an unauthorized disclosure, you know, that's gonna land him in jail and a lot of hot water.
[00:44:25.244] [Matt Ford] So I thought to myself, it's like, okay, I don't see this guy making this mistake. And what it says to me, or what it said to me, was clearly, And this is just a theory, but clearly Tim Phillips and Sean Kirkpatrick, when they exited, they
[00:44:43.634] [Matt Ford] were given top cover to communicate or engage in this sort of information operation to push that narrative out.
[00:44:51.795] [Guest] Now, on their own, this kind of influence operation, if you will, by AARO, that I could potentially understand them if you think about what we're trying, the messaging we're trying to achieve with respect
[00:45:09.822] [Guest] to our adversaries, China and Russia. So that there, I can see where Tim Phillips' comments about Battlestar Galactica capability might be really useful to throw them off.
[00:45:21.130] [Guest] But unfortunately, I think saying such things in open unclassified public setting is clearly, he would never do it based on his experience. If it was true, if it was true.
[00:45:32.954] [Guest] So that, that, that's not too clever and sophisticated to throw off our adversaries. So there's got to be a better way. And either way, though, it's not— Congress did not establish AARO for those means.
[00:45:44.313] [Guest] And that's, that's where I think a major problem is.
[00:45:48.586] [Matt Ford] Yeah, I think so too. And there, there, I think it was Rob Heatherley found the, the contracts for AARO and their primary contractor. And I think what was interesting is it's in the contractual language, and
[00:46:06.621] [Matt Ford] the contract for both Sancorp and the current one, Arlo Solutions, is close to $5 million per year. But their prime contractor answers directly to, quote, the Director of Information
[00:46:25.045] [Matt Ford] and Perception Management at OU. SDINS. Like, it's in the contract that that's who they answer to, the head of the Director of Information and Perception Management.
[00:46:37.351] [Matt Ford] And that's truly tragic. I'm going to shift gears. You have spoken publicly about the UAP Disclosure Act. And literally everybody that I tell them about this legislation, they've never even heard of it.
[00:46:51.755] [Matt Ford] Tell us for the viewers at home that have no idea what the UAP Disclosure Act What is it and why is it important?
[00:46:59.447] [Guest] Right, thank you, Matt. Uh, this is a very detailed piece of legislation that lays out a process for what they call controlled disclosure of UAP information, the evidence of non-human evidence and existence of non-human intelligence, as well as their, their technology
[00:47:17.929] [Guest] of unknown origin. All those words are used multiple times in the legislation, and the process that's put forward is for the president to appoint a panel of experts in a number of different disciplines to review in a very deliberate way and phased approach various aspects of the,
[00:47:36.097] [Guest] the, this information, UAP information held by the government and make determination, uh, uh, over a period of time, uh, what should be released and not to the public, uh, balancing both the public's right to know what the government possesses and the base— the
[00:47:54.152] [Guest] nature of reality versus national security. And, uh, and again, in the— it was informed by closed-door meetings with individuals in the ICIG and formerly in the government who have knowledge of these programs.
[00:48:09.695] [Guest] And, uh, and so many members of Congress have been supportive of legislation both in the House and the Senate. It was introduced initially by Senator Rounds and Schumer, so it's bipartisan.
[00:48:20.744] [Guest] Very— really a landmark piece of legislation. And really, in just in terms of the content, you don't get bills put forward, especially in a bipartisan manner, unless there's substance behind it.
[00:48:32.831] [Guest] And there's a great deal of substance behind this one.
[00:48:36.583] [Matt Ford] And the part that stops people— and I know this has been an issue in in previous attempts to get this thing passed is this eminent domain piece.
[00:48:47.253] [Matt Ford] And essentially, I think most people think, oh, the government has everything in its possession, anything that a private contractor has, the private contractor's gonna give it back on demand.
[00:49:00.237] [Matt Ford] And this particular provision in the bill's words talks about recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of non-human intelligence. Intelligence. Why, in your view, is the— or do you agree that the eminent domain clause
[00:49:18.710] [Matt Ford] should be part of this, that it should, if this thing were to pass, should be part of it? Or make the case for or against it, because I know some people have kind of differing views on it.
[00:49:31.916] [Guest] Yeah, I look at both sides, and they have merit. I mean, the fact that Without the eminent domain clause, we really can't begin a systematic level of research that's balanced and fair across academic, contractor, and government sectors.
[00:49:50.422] [Guest] But at the same time, these, these companies— and I'm in the private sector right now— they, they have had long-time access to materials and this information, and, and this would sort— this could put them at a great disadvantage.
[00:50:04.588] [Guest] So I, I'm really not going to argue either way. Uh, I actually would argue for the main content of the bill, and, and that could be negotiable, the eminent domain piece, uh, because the main content of the legislation is, I think, the most important, and that is let's
[00:50:20.940] [Guest] acknowledge for the public that, uh, we are not alone, that, that we have been visited. There are advanced intelligences here on Earth, and we have to conduct more research to better understand what they are, what their intention is, their true nature, uh, and, and with many applications, uh,
[00:50:38.773] [Guest] for both our economic development and prosperity as well as our national security and way of life.
[00:50:46.980] [Matt Ford] I'm in complete agreement with you. I mean, I, I do think that the eminent domain piece is important, but if it's, if it's a deal killer, you just can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[00:50:56.690] [Matt Ford] There's, there's so much good in that legislation that stands on its own merits. Without the eminent domain clause. Again, I would love for all of it to pass, but I know there was resistance in previous attempts to not
[00:51:14.934] [Matt Ford] strip that, and I think something is better than nothing, in my opinion. But let's talk about something newer, Admiral. Dr. Avi Loeb, Harvard astronomer, he's been on this show, I think, 5 times.
[00:51:28.034] [Matt Ford] Absolutely love Dr. Avi Loeb, and his enthusiasm reminds me very much of your own, and I have such respect for that and for Dr.
[00:51:39.253] [Matt Ford] Loeb, and really for having the courage, much as yourself, to take this on in a very public way. You are now part of Dr.
[00:51:47.760] [Matt Ford] Loeb's White House UAP Science Advisory Council, which I think there are a lot of people that have no idea this thing exists outside of the people in UFO Twitter land.
[00:51:59.246] [Matt Ford] What is this council and who does it answer to?
[00:52:03.510] [Guest] Right. So it's not a White House council, Matt.
[00:52:05.369] [Matt Ford] It's—
[00:52:05.530] [Guest] we actually report— no, it's— we work at the unclassified level. It's a group of scientists from a number of different disciplines. And our goal is to research all the UAP information released in the Pursue program.
[00:52:21.768] [Guest] And, and then call for more, more data so we can perform a more complete and rigorous and systematic study, all with the intent to determine whether or not these objects that have been observed are truly anomalous in nature or not.
[00:52:35.780] [Guest] And so we have been making recommendations and issuing statements. And so this— I'm, I'm really proud to be on this body because, you know, we— it's not— If you look at the Pursuit files, I think it's pretty well known there is more convincing data
[00:52:53.896] [Guest] that is in existence that remains classified. I can tell you that with complete assurance. However, so that which has been released in the establishment of our council is acknowledging for the first time in the 80-year cover-up by our government that UAP
[00:53:12.416] [Guest] are real and worth scientific study. That is a monumental milestone in itself, and that's why I'm a part of this group. It remains to be seen how much and how transparent this will all really be, but we're all, as scientists on the council, that's our entire goal, is
[00:53:28.672] [Guest] to study the phenomena. And there's some progress here that I have to tell you about. We just issued a statement today, and I'm actually a little surprised because Avi is a very data-driven scientist.
[00:53:41.721] [Guest] I respect him immensely. I like him. And a lot of the reporting, like my testimony that was basically referring to other eyewitnesses and whistleblowers, he had a hard time.
[00:53:53.804] [Guest] He has a hard time not really abiding by that because he wants to see the data. He wants to see the craft, the videos, multi-sensor, everything that we can actually derive a velocity, etc.
[00:54:05.293] [Guest] Well, as, as more statements are coming out, for example, Eric Davis was on Ross Coulthart's show, and he talked to the fact that he knows about 4 different types of NHIs, and through his access to
[00:54:23.541] [Guest] different programs, and he can't completely divulge because of NDAs, and he's seeking to be given immunity regarding those NDAs. And as Avi started to learn about this process and the, the, uh the Deputy Director of National Intelligence Aaron Lucas's memo
[00:54:41.742] [Guest] that intends to—
[00:54:44.635] [Matt Ford] he's not a fan of me, by the way. I'll just leave it at that.
[00:54:49.038] [Guest] Uh, yeah, I'm not going to go into that either, but ultimately, there— the administration is— there is some communication about giving, uh, whistleblowers who have— or pardon me, anybody who's bound by an NDA, uh, access or or have those restrictions lifted for them to go and speak with
[00:55:06.949] [Guest] the Pursuit Program as well as ODNI. And so Avi's looking at this saying, okay, well, the administration tends to want to do that. So we made a statement that Eric Davis and any other whistleblower who has had access to this information, we want to meet with them and
[00:55:24.677] [Guest] we want them to be able to have these restrictions lifted so that they can tell us what they know. And, and so Avi's open to this.
[00:55:31.521] [Guest] He, he's— first time I've ever seen him not criticize statements like that regarding NHI. And if there's an eyewitness that can speak to the absolute, uh, certainly and positively seeing data, photographs, the biologics themselves, uh,
[00:55:49.552] [Guest] he, he is— wants to encourage the administration to give them the right, the immunity to speak with us as a science council so that we can interview them and learn and conduct a proper investigation.
[00:56:00.427] [Guest] So I'm pretty pleased with at least the intent and the speed at which he was seeking to uncover the truth.
[00:56:07.894] [Matt Ford] I absolutely love that. And I love Avi Loeb. I've given him a hard time about a particular skeptic that's on the council, but Avi is— he is a true champion of disclosure in my view.
[00:56:21.306] [Matt Ford] And I just absolutely love hearing that. Last thing, Admiral, you've spent your life in rooms most people will never see, being at sea, SCIFs, all this kind of stuff.
[00:56:33.090] [Matt Ford] You've had this absolutely amazing career, and now you're on the outside asking for change. The disclosure act, the UAP Disclosure Act, which we talked about earlier in more detail, uh, lizard eyes in the Senate.
[00:56:45.952] [Matt Ford] If you had that room the lawmakers who will decide, if you're in that room with them, what would be the one thing you'd ask them to do?
[00:56:57.650] [Guest] I passed that UAP Disclosure Act. Absolutely, yes. Everything we've talked about. And there's a, there's a growing number of senators and representatives who want to see this happen.
[00:57:07.251] [Guest] So I'm going to continue with that message. And, uh, and look at all the momentum and progress that we've been making in the last just few years.
[00:57:15.489] [Guest] It's really remarkable. And I think the Senate now, as they see the administration apparently show some support for this, this might be the time.
[00:57:28.358] [Guest] The time might be right now.
[00:57:30.737] [Matt Ford] I agree. I think now is the time. I think President Trump is the right president to do this. And I certainly hope it happens.
[00:57:38.842] [Matt Ford] And thank you for your effort. So Admiral Well, Tim Gallaudet, thank you so much. Holding Fast in Heavy Seas: Leadership for Turbulent Times, absolutely fantastic book.
[00:57:49.829] [Matt Ford] I highly, highly recommend it. I just, it is an honor to interview people like yourself. I have been just so fortunate and blessed to have really amazing people on this show.
[00:58:01.824] [Matt Ford] And it is even more of a privilege to read something like this that really gives me insight into into yourself and your values and how you choose to lead.
[00:58:14.166] [Matt Ford] And I can certainly say America has been very blessed and honored to have you be such a leader in not only in the military, in NOAA, and now on the UAP Science Advisory Board.
[00:58:30.876] [Matt Ford] Thank you so much for joining us.
[00:58:33.423] [Guest] Matt, it was a great interview. Appreciate you and supporting my book. I'm honored that you could do that. Looking forward to next time.
[00:58:40.559] [Matt Ford] Folks, 32 years in uniform and he still walked into that room and told them exactly what he thought. If you enjoyed our interview with Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet, you will love this episode.
[00:58:52.150] [Matt Ford] Thank you for tuning in. And if you love our channel, please hit that subscribe button. See you next time.