Lue Elizondo — first full Japanese interview (Niconico News UFO special, Jul 2026)

Source: Niconico News (ニコニコ) UFO emergency special — billed as the first full Japanese interview with Lue (Luis) Elizondo (former AATIP senior official; author of "Imminent"). Japanese panel: Kou/Isao Nanao (Niconico host), former Rep. Yoshiharu Asakawa (deputy head of Japan's cross-party UFO caucus), philosopher Ryo Kikuchi, and former Defense Minister Yasukazu Hamada; Elizondo answers in English via consecutive interpretation.
URL: https://www.youtube.com/live/hmJE4IkS6pY (Niconico original: live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv350878719). Aired 2026-07-07; ~2:31:59.
Captured: 2026-07-07. Antigravity CLI (agy) + Gemini Flash on the downloaded video (600s chunks, single-pass -j1, speaker-labeled; no on-screen-visual lines). Bilingual: the transcript is verbatim in the original languages (Japanese host/panel turns; Elizondo's answers in English). English translations of every Japanese turn were added afterward as blockquote glosses ("> (EN) …") via agy/Gemini, immediately below each Japanese line, so the full Q&A is readable; the glosses are machine translations, not part of the verbatim record. Speaker names were auto-labeled and are reliable here (each panelist is introduced by name on-air); other proper nouns may be mis-rendered - verify specific citations against the video.
Analysis: ../../sources/elizondo-career-and-claims · ../../topics/uap-and-the-moon

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[Kou Nanao, 8:46] ニコニコ七尾です。えー、本日は、あー、緊急UFO特番をお送りします。はい。えー、本日の出演者、お一人目をご紹介します。安全保障から考える未確認異常現象解明議員連盟、通称UFO議連、会長補佐の浅川義治、元衆議院議員です。よろしくお願いいたします。

(EN) This is Nanao from Niconico. Today, we bring you an emergency UFO special program. Yes. I would like to introduce our first guest today: Yoshiharu Asakawa, former member of the House of Representatives and assistant to the chairman of the Parliamentary Association for the Study of Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena from a Security Perspective, commonly known as the UFO Parliamentary Caucus. Thank you for joining us.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:07] よろしくお願いします。
(EN) Thank you for having me.
[Kou Nanao, 9:10] はい。先ほど入ってきた最新情報なんですけれども、浅川さん。
(EN) Alright. We have some breaking news that just came in, Mr. Asakawa.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:15] 私の方から？
(EN) From me?
[Kou Nanao, 9:16] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:18] 実は、沖縄タイムスが報じたところで、沖縄県南城市のビーチなどの東の空で、6日の夜、激しく光る物体が目撃され、UFOではないかと話題を呼んでます。光は2つに分かれて移動するなどの約20分間観測されました。専門家は流れ星ではないとし、ヘリの訓練などの可能性を指摘しましたが、海上保安庁の本部では該当する飛行物体はないということで、ヤフーニュースでも流れております。
(EN) Actually, the Okinawa Times reported that a brightly glowing object was spotted in the eastern sky over a beach in Nanjo City, Okinawa Prefecture, on the night of the 6th, sparking talk that it might be a UFO. The light was observed for about 20 minutes, during which it split into two and moved. While experts ruled out a shooting star and suggested possibilities like helicopter training, the Regional Coast Guard Headquarters stated there were no corresponding flight objects, and this has also been reported on Yahoo! News.
[Kou Nanao, 9:47] これ、あれなんですよ。あの、UFOファイルズ、米国、あ、後で詳しく言いますけど、情報公開、今3回目なんですけど、
(EN) This is actually, you know, the UFO Files in the US—I'll explain in detail later—but this is the third round of information disclosure now.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:48] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 9:49] 3回目の、
(EN) In this third round,
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:50] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 9:51] 2つの赤い、
(EN) those two red,
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:52] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 9:53] あの、光とそっくりなんですよ。
(EN) lights, they look exactly like that.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:57] そうですね。
(EN) That's true.
[Kou Nanao, 9:58] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 9:59] 映像見ましたけれども。
(EN) I saw the video as well.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 10:00] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 10:01] はい。えー、まあそういったかたで、日本でも様々な影響が出てる、影響というか現象が出、出始めているという状況だと思います。はい。これまで、えー、ニコニコではですね、パワポお願いします。はい。こうした観点から番組をやってまいりました。えー、UFO、NHI、これ、ノン・ヒューマン・インテリジェンス、非人間的知性と呼んでますが、今は、まあ、エイリアンに限りませんので、NHIという言い方をしています。これは政治問題であると位置付けて、えー、政治番組として、えー、朝香さん、そして、後ほど入られる、菊池良さんと3人でですね、えー、様々こうした番組を行ってまいりました。えー、2023年9月25日から始まりまして、えー、8回にわたって、国内外の専門家をお迎えして番組をお届けしてまいりました。えー、直近ではですね、えー、4月にUFOインフルエンサー、アメリカのですね、ジェシー・マイケルさん等とともに、米国の最新裏情報をお伝えしてきました。えー、その番組の最後なんですが、はい。UFO、NHIはサイエンスで語られるべき問題だと、これ、指摘させていただきました。えー、その後、米国でトランプ大統領の指示のもと、えー、国防総省、戦争省からですね、3回にわたって、まあ、通称UFOファイルが公開されまして、6月に入ってですね、えー、米国でこうした組織が立ち上がりました。はい。UAP科学顧問委員会です。つまり、朝香さん、これ、科学の領域に入ってきたということですね。
(EN) Yes. Well, that's how it is, and I believe we are in a situation where various effects—or rather, phenomena—are starting to appear in Japan as well. Yes. Up until now, on Niconico, could we have the PowerPoint, please? Yes, we have been running programs from this perspective. UFOs and NHIs—which stands for Non-Human Intelligence, though since it's not limited to aliens now, we use the term NHI. Positioning this as a political issue, we have run various programs as a political show with Mr. Asaka and Mr. Ryo Kikuchi, who will join us later. Starting on September 25, 2023, we have brought you eight episodes featuring experts from Japan and abroad. Most recently, in April, along with American UFO influencer Jesse Michel and others, we reported on the latest behind-the-scenes information from the US. At the end of that program, yes, we pointed out that UFOs and NHIs are issues that should be discussed through science. Since then, under instructions from President Trump in the US, what are commonly known as the UFO Files have been released in three rounds by the Department of Defense. And as we entered June, an organization like this was established in the US. Yes, the UAP Scientific Advisory Board. In other words, Mr. Asaka, this means it has entered the realm of science, hasn't it?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 11:38] そうですね。
(EN) That's right.
[Kou Nanao, 11:39] はい。えー、この委員会は、トランプ大統領のUAP透明性に関する指示のもと、ホワイトハウス、ペンタゴンの全領域異常対策室、えー、AARO、国家情報長官室、ODNI、えー、FBIなどから要請を受けて設立されたものです。はい。ここでちょっとご紹介します。えー、本日ですね、えーっと、通訳をしていただきます、哲学者の菊池良さんです。あの、いろいろ番組企画から、3人で一緒にやってまいりました。よろしくお願いします。
(EN) Yes. This committee was established at the request of the White House, the Pentagon's All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI), the FBI, and others, under President Trump's directive on UAP transparency. Yes, let me introduce him here. Today, acting as our interpreter, we have philosopher Ryo Kikuchi. We have worked together, the three of us, starting from the planning of various programs. Welcome.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 12:08] よろしくお願いします。
(EN) Thank you.
[Kou Nanao, 12:10] はい。えー、そしてですね、えー、そうした指示を受けて設立されてきました。えー、ハーバード大学の天体物理学者、アビ・ローブ教授が議長を務めまして、UAPの本質を、これ、科学的に解明し、国家安全保障上の脅威を、こう評価するということでございます。えー、過去の政府報告や公開データに基づき、憶測ではなく、ナラティブではなくですね、エビデンス、証拠ベース of 分析を目指します。えー、アビ・ローブ議長が選定した多分野の専門家チームで、6月時点の発表分で15名にのぼっています。はい。朝香さん、これ、いかがですか？これ、当初のメンバーですが。
(EN) Yes. And so, it was established following those instructions. It is chaired by Harvard University astrophysicist Professor Avi Loeb, with the goal of scientifically clarifying the nature of UAPs and assessing national security threats. Based on past government reports and public data, it aims for evidence-based analysis, rather than speculation or narratives. It consists of a multidisciplinary team of experts selected by Chairman Avi Loeb, numbering 15 as of the June announcement. Yes, Mr. Asaka, what do you think of this? These are the initial members.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 12:51] はい。あの、私もソルのシンポジウム等で、
(EN) Yes, well, I have also, at the Sol Foundation symposia and other events,
[Kou Nanao, 12:53] あ、そうですね。
(EN) Ah, that's right.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 12:54] はい。何人もお会いしてます。
(EN) Yes, met several of them.
[Kou Nanao, 12:56] はい。そしてですね、えー、当初発表された10名のうち、これ、菊池良さんが気づいたんですけど、あの、4人がニコ生にご出演いただいた方々です。はい。えー、分子生物学などの専門で、実力はもうノーベル賞クラス、ギャリー・ノーラン、スタンフォード大教授。えー、海洋学専門、元NOAA代理局長で、海軍少将のティム・ギャローデット博士。えー、人類学、ソル財団の共同代表でありますピーター・スカフィッシュ博士。もう、朝香さんもソルでいろいろ取材してきていただいて。
(EN) Yes. And, out of the initial 10 members announced—actually, Ryo Kikuchi noticed this—four of them are people who have appeared on Niconico Live. Yes. Dr. Garry Nolan, Stanford University professor, specializing in molecular biology and other fields, whose work is of Nobel laureate caliber. Dr. Tim Gallaudet, oceanographer, former Acting Administrator of NOAA, and Rear Admiral in the Navy. Dr. Peter Skafish, anthropologist and co-founder of the Sol Foundation. Mr. Asaka, you have also done various interviews at Sol.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 13:28] ええ。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 13:29] はい。こうしたメンバーです。そして、えー、今回UFO特番第9弾ですね。はい。えー、お迎えするのは、ついにニコ生に降臨、ルイス・エリゾンドさんです。えー、これ、ちょっと時間がないのでね、あの、急ぎで行きますが、えー、UAP、UFOを研究する、えー、DOD、えー、当時国防総省ですね、秘密組織AATIPの元上級責任者であり、これ、ヒストリーチャンネル、怪事件米政府UFO機密調査ファイル、これ、朝香さんも良さんもご覧になってたと思いますが。
(EN) Yes, these are the members. And now, for our ninth UFO special. Yes, our guest, making his long-awaited appearance on Niconico Live, is Luis Elizondo. Since we're a bit short on time, I'll go through this quickly, but he is the former head of AATIP, a secret organization within the DOD—the Department of Defense back then—that researched UAPs and UFOs. I believe both Mr. Asaka and Ryo watched his show on the History Channel, "Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation."
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 14:02] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 14:03] はい。そのメイン出演者でありますエリゾンドさん。そして、ニューヨークタイムズでベストセラーになりました、こちらありますね、『イミネント』という本ですが、これを上梓するなどUAPに関する一般の認識向上に積極的に取り組んできた。良さん、これ、どういった人物？一言で言うと。
(EN) Yes, Mr. Elizondo is the main star of that show. He has also been actively working to raise public awareness of UAPs, including publishing this New York Times bestseller, "Imminent." Ryo, what kind of person is he? In a nutshell.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 14:24] いや、やっぱりあの情報公開のあの、きっかけとなった、えー、ことを行った人で、あの、僕は番組でいうとヒストリーチャンネルもそうなんですけども、アメリカで60 Minutesっていうとても有名なあの報道番組にメロンさんと一緒に出て、で、ニューヨークタイムズの有名な、あの、リークの記事のお話をされていた。まあ、アメリカでも最も有名なあの情報開示関係の人の一人と言えると思います。
(EN) Well, he is ultimately the person who triggered the disclosure of information. In terms of programs, besides the History Channel, he appeared with Mr. Mellon on "60 Minutes," a very famous news program in the US, where they spoke about the famous New York Times leak article. I think he can be called one of the most famous figures in disclosure in the US.
[Kou Nanao, 14:52] はい。朝香さん、もう最前線にいたキーマンの1人だと思いますね。はい。ありがとうございます。そしてですね、ただですね、これ、最重要人物であるがために、えー、こういった問題がございます。えー、セキュリティクリアランスを現在も保持しているため、まだNDA、えー、機密情報非開示契約
(EN) Yes. Mr. Asaka, I think he's one of the key figures who was on the front lines. Yes, thank you. However, because he is such a crucial figure, there is this issue. Since he still holds a security clearance, he is still under an NDA—a Non-Disclosure Agreement—
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 15:14] うん。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 15:15] 良さん、これ、簡単に言うと、言っちゃいけないってことですかね？
(EN) Ryo, to put it simply, does this mean he is not allowed to talk?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 15:18] そうですね。これノン・ディスクロージャー・アグリーメントというもので、あの、言ってはいけないことは言ってはいけないというサインをしているので、で、これに反した場合には、まあ、悪い場合には刑務所、あるいは、もしかするともっとひどい罰を受けるかもしれないということで。
(EN) That's right. It's a Non-Disclosure Agreement, meaning he has signed to agree that he cannot say what he is not allowed to say. If he violates this, at worst he could face prison, or perhaps even harsher penalties.
[Kou Nanao, 15:33] なるほど。これ、エリゾンドさんのそうした秘密保持契約、考えられるだけでもSF-312って、これは大体、あの、機密関連、あの、国防総省とかだと全員、えー、サインするんですけども、サップ関連、スペシャルアクセプログラム関連のNDAにも、えー、契約してるんじゃないかと。あと、DOPSRなんですけども、出版前審査。なんか本を書くときに、えー、全部チェックされると。そうしたことがあります。そして、退職されても誓約書、機密保持義務があるということで、こういった少なくとも4つ以上のですね、秘密契約書にサインしてる。つまり、退職後も永続的に有効であって、えー、開示を禁ずると。生涯この義務を負うという、そうした方々でございます。そうすると、朝香さん、今回の番組のポイントは、
(EN) I see. Speaking of Mr. Elizondo's non-disclosure agreements, just off the top of my head, there is the SF-312, which is generally signed by anyone dealing with classified information at the Department of Defense, but he is probably also bound by NDAs related to SAPs—Special Access Programs. There is also DOPSR, the pre-publication security review, where everything is checked when writing a book. Things like that. And even after leaving, he is bound by a pledge and confidentiality obligations, meaning he has signed at least four or more non-disclosure agreements. In other words, they remain permanently in effect even after retirement, prohibiting disclosure. He is a person who carries this obligation for life. So, Mr. Asaka, the key point of today's show is...
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 16:21] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 16:21] どうなりますか？
(EN) What would it be?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 16:23] どこまでお話をしていただけるかってことですね。
(EN) It comes down to how much he can tell us.
[Kou Nanao, 16:27] はい。これはですね、3人の質問力と、あの、聞き方でこうかなり影響を受けてきます。はい。それで、進めたいと思います。で、ちょっとあの、お断りなんですが、あの、今回ですね、えー、日本語と英語がですね、こう飛び交います。そうすると通常の倍以上時間がかかるわけです。なので、通訳の菊池さんにはですね、番組進行上、容姿、要旨を日本語訳していただきます。で、詳しくはですね、YouTubeで後々見れますので、そこでエリゾンドさんの詳細の発言は確認してください。今日のところは時間の都合上ですね、趣旨で、あの、進めさせていただきます。よろしくお願いします。はい。えー、それではですね、エリゾンドさんと繋がったようです。
(EN) Yes. That will depend heavily on the questioning skills of the three of us and how we ask the questions. Right, let's proceed. I should make a quick announcement, though: this time, both Japanese and English will be spoken back and forth. That means it will take more than twice as long as usual. Therefore, for the sake of the show's progression, our interpreter, Mr. Kikuchi, will translate the main points into Japanese. For the full details, you can watch it later on YouTube, where you can check Mr. Elizondo's remarks in detail. Today, due to time constraints, we will proceed with the general gist of things. Thank you for your understanding. Alright, it seems we have connected with Mr. Elizondo.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 17:16] お。
(EN) Oh.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 17:17] こんばんは。日本では夜なんですけども、UFO議連会長補佐の朝香豊です。エリゾンドさんと今日こうしてですね、えー、オンラインなんですけどもお目にかかれて本当に光栄です。6年前のヒストリーチャンネルでずっと見ててですね、すごい人だなっていう風にずっと思っておりました。今日はどうぞよろしくお願いいたします。
(EN) Good evening. It is nighttime here in Japan. I am Toyo Asaka, assistant to the chairman of the UFO Parliamentary Caucus. It is truly an honor to meet you online today, Mr. Elizondo. I have been watching you on the History Channel since six years ago, and I have always thought you were an amazing person. Thank you so much for being with us today.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 17:38] Good evening. Here in Japan, it's evening. And, we're very excited to meet you online, because I have been a big fan of yours since, for about six years since I saw I saw you on the History Channel. So, it's a very great honor for us to be able to interview you today.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 18:02] お。音が聞こえないですね。
(EN) Oh, there is no sound.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 18:06] ちょっとお待ちください。
(EN) Please wait a moment.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 18:09] あ、ちょっとお待ちください。
(EN) Oh, please wait a moment.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 18:11] Yeah, sorry, we have some sound difficulty, and we are not able to listen, hear you. We need to clear that up.
[Kou Nanao, 18:21] 皆さん、視聴者の皆さん、ちょっとお待ちください。音声トラブルがちょっと今起こりました。
(EN) Everyone, our viewers, please wait a moment. We are experiencing some audio trouble right now.
[Kou Nanao, 18:28] えーっと、絵をこっちの方に持ってきてください。エリゾンドさんに。
(EN) Um, please bring the video over here, to Mr. Elizondo.
[Kou Nanao, 18:34] え、良さん、もう一回お願いします。
(EN) Ryo, could you say that again, please?
[Kou Nanao, 18:38] すいません、あのユーザーの皆さんすいません、あの生ライブで、ライブでやってるもんですから、ちょっとあの、テスト十分やったんですが、もう一度ちょっと仕切り直しさせてください。
(EN) Apologies to all our viewers. Since we are broadcasting live, we did test this thoroughly beforehand, but please let us reset and start over.
[Kou Nanao, 18:50] はい、朝香さんそういう感じで、あの、今音声調整してる間ちょっと話しますが、まあどうでしょう、あの沖縄でもUFOが出たりとかしてね。
(EN) Yes. Well, Mr. Asaka, while we are adjusting the audio, let's talk for a bit. What do you think about the UFO appearing in Okinawa, for instance?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 19:00] そうですね。
(EN) That's true.
[Kou Nanao, 19:02] これ、UFO議連としても、かなり大変じゃないですか？
(EN) Isn't this quite a big deal for the UFO Parliamentary Caucus as well?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 19:06] そうですね。エリゾンドさんが沖縄にね、日本にいらした時、
(EN) Yes, it is. When Mr. Elizondo was in Okinawa, in Japan,
[Kou Nanao, 19:10] あ、そうですね。
(EN) Ah, that's right.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 19:11] お仕事でいらっしゃってて、それで今日この番組の前日にそういう沖縄で、
(EN) he was there on business, and then, on the day before this program, in Okinawa...
[Kou Nanao, 19:16] 前日ですからね、はい。
(EN) It was the day before, yes.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 19:18] 起きてるというですね。
(EN) That they were awake.
[Kou Nanao, 19:20] なるほど。何かあるのかなと。
(EN) I see. I wondered if there was something to it.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 19:22] 何かあるのかなと、はい。
(EN) Wondered if there was something to it, yes.
[Kou Nanao, 19:23] ちょっと象徴的なことがあったかもしれません。はい。いやだから、今回は、そうしたNDAが秘密保持契約がある中でですね、あの、まあ朝香さんに色々、あの、お手伝いいただいたんですが、エリゾンドさんがこうやってですね、我々ファーイーストの日本の番組に出ていただけるなんてのは本当に光栄だと思うんですよね。
(EN) Perhaps there was something symbolic. Yes. So, this time, even with a non-disclosure agreement, an NDA, in place, and with Ms. Asakawa helping us in various ways, it is a real honor to have Mr. Elizondo appear on our Far East Japanese program like this.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 19:44] あの、私もきっかけXで、エリゾンドさんに直接、みんなが見えているタイムラインのところで、あの、エリゾンドさんに話しかけて、そしたらご回答いただいたというところからスタートしてますね。
(EN) Well, it all started when I reached out to Mr. Elizondo directly on X in a public timeline that everyone could see, and he replied to me.
[Kou Nanao, 19:58] はい。はい。
(EN) Yes. Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 20:00] なりました。えーと、今、音声繋がってるんですが、ちょっとお待ちください。はい、ちょっと準備しますので。はい。まあ、私としてもですね、エリドンドさんはヒーローでしかない方で、もうこうやってですね、ニコ生降臨していただくっていうのは本当に夢のような、そんな夢のようなのに結構厳しい質問させていただくっていうのは恐縮なんですけど、まあ、これはですね、日本のユーザーだけでなくて、やはり米国の、あの、エリドンドさんのファン、UFO情報開示に関心のある方々がご覧になってるというそういう前提で、えー、今日は進めます。えー、なのでですね、あの、そろそろ始めたいと思います。はい。はい、オッケーですか？はい、朝川さん、じゃあ、お願いします。
(EN) It's connected. Uh, the audio is connected now, so please wait a moment. Yes, we are preparing. Yes. Well, as for me, Mr. Elizondo is nothing short of a hero, so having him appear on Nico Nico Live is like a dream. Even though it's like a dream, I feel bad about asking him some tough questions, but we are proceeding today on the assumption that not only Japanese viewers but also Mr. Elizondo's fans in the US and those interested in UFO disclosure are watching. So, I think we should get started soon. Yes. Are we ready? Yes, Ms. Asakawa, please go ahead.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 20:43] あ、その前に、先ほどのことだけお話しいただいたんですけど、あの、皆さんとこうやってご一緒、ご一緒できること、とても光栄に思います、ということでした。
(EN) Oh, before that, he just told me that he is very honored to be here with all of you.
[Kou Nanao, 20:51] はい、ありがとうございました。そしたら浜田さんの...
(EN) Yes, thank you very much. Now, for Mr. Hamada's...
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 20:53] はい。で、今日は、あの、UFO議連会長浜田やす、あ、やすかず大義士はこちらに来られてないんですけども、エリドンドさんが生出演されるということで、メッセージをですね、収録させていただきましたので、この後、流させていただきます。
(EN) Yes. Today, Representative Yasukazu Hamada, the chairman of the UFO caucus, could not be here, but since Mr. Elizondo is appearing live, we have a recorded message from him that we will play next.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 21:09] Uh, we have a little surprise for you. We have a recorded message from Mr. Yasukazu Hamada, chairman of UAP caucus and former defense minister.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 21:22] 元防衛大臣でもあります。
(EN) He is also a former Minister of Defense.
[Kou Nanao, 21:24] あ、元防衛大臣、言いましたね。はい、それではVTRをお願いします。はい。
(EN) Ah, right, a former Minister of Defense. Okay, let's roll the video. Yes.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 21:29] エリドンドさん、初めまして。えー、衆議院議員の浜田靖一です。えー、私は、えー、現在、安全保障、うー、から考える、うー、未確認、えー、異常、うー、現象解明議員連盟の会長を務めております。えー、エリドンドさんがですね、安全保障の、うー、要職に従事されながら、長年にわたって、えー、UAPの問題の、うー、重要性を訴え続け、訴え続けてこられたことにですね、深く、うー、敬意を表します。えー、特に国防総省、うー、を、うー、退官された後の、後もですね、えー、様々な圧力に屈することなく、うー、真実を明らかにするために、えー、先頭に立ってですね、えー、情報開示の活動を続けてこられたことに対して、えー、その勇気に、と、行動力にはですね、心から、あー、感銘を受けております。えー、朝川さんから以前より、エリドンドさんの素晴らしい、えー、実績について伺っておりました。えー、本日はスタジオで、えー、直接お話を伺うことが、えー、できず大変残念ですけれど、えー、近い将来、えー、実際にお目にかかる日を、えー、心から楽しみにしておりますので、えー、またどうぞよろしくお願いをいたします。
(EN) Hello, Mr. Elizondo. I am Yasukazu Hamada, a member of the House of Representatives. I currently serve as the chairman of the non-partisan legislative caucus on clarifying unidentified anomalous phenomena from a national security perspective. I would like to express my deepest respect for the fact that you have spent many years advocating for the importance of the UAP issue while serving in key national security positions. In particular, I am deeply impressed by your courage and action in continuing to lead disclosure activities to reveal the truth even after retiring from the Department of Defense, without giving in to various pressures. I have heard about your wonderful achievements from Ms. Asakawa for some time. Although it is very regrettable that I cannot be in the studio to speak with you directly today, I sincerely look forward to the day we meet in person in the near future. Thank you very much.
[Kou Nanao, 22:57] はい、りょうさん。
(EN) Yes, Ryo-san.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 22:58] Would you like to respond? Do you have any comment or message to Mr. Hamada?
[Luis Elizondo, 23:03] Yes. Well, first of all, uh, Mr. Hamada is a very honorable man. I appreciate sincerely what he is doing. Um, unfortunately, I do not have transcription services on my end, so I, I don't know precisely what he is saying, but I am aware of, of, uh, of his advocacy and, uh, I'm a, I'm a big supporter and fan of his. And once I have the translation, I will be able to respond more thoroughly.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 23:31] Ah, okay. So, were you not able to see the caption?
[Luis Elizondo, 23:34] Unfortunately, it was too small. Uh, it was...
[Ryo Kikuchi, 23:37] Ah, okay, sorry.
[Luis Elizondo, 23:38] That's okay.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 23:40] あの、Mr.、え、浜田さんのことをご存知で、え、とても、あの、名誉ある人だという風に、思っています。で、今ちょっとあの、メッセージの方、キャプションがちょっと小さくて読みづらかったのでよく分からなかったということなんですけども、でも、あの、浜田さんのことはご存知ですし、あの、こうやって、えー、UAPの情報開示のために働いていらっしゃるということをご存知ですし、えー、私も、あの、ぜひサポートしていきたい、そういう風におっしゃってます。
(EN) He knows Mr. Hamada and considers him a highly honorable person. He mentioned that he couldn't follow the message well because the captions were small and hard to read, but he knows Mr. Hamada and is aware that he is working towards UAP disclosure, and he expressed his strong desire to support these efforts as well.
[Kou Nanao, 24:08] はい、ありがとうございました。
(EN) Yes, thank you very much.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 24:09] ありがとうございます。
(EN) Thank you.
[Kou Nanao, 24:10] えー、それでは早速質問に入りたいと思いますが、先ほどご紹介してなかったです。あの、私、えー、ニコニコの七尾功と申します。えー、エリドンドさんは、もう大ファンで、もうずっとお会いしたいと思ってました。本日はよろしくお願いします。
(EN) Now, let's get straight to the questions. I forgot to introduce myself earlier. My name is Isao Nanao from Nico Nico. I am a huge fan of yours, Mr. Elizondo, and have wanted to meet you for a long time. It is a pleasure to have you here today.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 24:27] Uh, my name is Nanao, Kou Nanao. And I've also been a very big fan of yours. So, it's very, uh, I'm very happy to be able to talk to you today.
[Luis Elizondo, 24:40] Well, Nanao, thank you very much, and to everybody who is listening, uh, today. It is truly my honor and sincere privilege to be, uh, sitting with you here and having this conversation.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 24:54] あの、ありがとうございます。あと、あの、見ていただいている視聴者の皆様にも、まあ、感謝したいと思ってます。また、とても光栄に思ってます。
(EN) Thank you very much. I would also like to thank the viewers who are watching us. I am very honored to be here.
[Kou Nanao, 25:03] はい、ありがとうございます。えー、早速１問目いきたいと思います。えー、著者、あなたの書かれた『イミネント』についてお伺いしたいと思います。えー、あなたは秘密保持契約NDAに縛られたまま、『イミネント』を執筆されました。そうした制約の中で、本当に国民に伝えたかったことのうち、実際にはどれぐらいこの本の中に盛り込むことができたんでしょうか？
(EN) Yes, thank you. Let's move on to the first question. I'd like to ask about your book, Imminent. You wrote Imminent while bound by a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). Under such constraints, how much of what you truly wanted to convey to the public were you actually able to include in this book?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 25:29] You wrote Imminent while still bound by a non-disclosure agreement. Given those constraints, roughly how much of what you actually wanted the public to know were you able to get into the book?
[Luis Elizondo, 25:44] Well, that's a fantastic question. Uh, when I first wrote the book, uh, I was and I still am bound by my non-disclosure agreement. So, there are certain categories of information I am restricted from discussing. However, because the public conversation has increased over time, there is more and more I am allowed to say. With each passing week, there's more information. So, uh, I'm very optimistic in the very near term I'm going to be able to discuss much more than I already have in the book.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 26:20] え、とても素晴らしい質問ありがとうございます。まあ、これを書いたときもそうですし、今もそうなんですけれども、やはり、あの、の、NDAによって、あの、私の言うことは制約されています。ただしですね、あの、公共の場で今議論されていることというのが、え、増えてきているので、まあ、その量が増えるにつれて私も、え、たくさんのことを言えるようになってきています。まあ、近い将来、もっとたくさんのことを言えるようになるのではないかと私は考えています。
(EN) Thank you very much for the excellent question. It was true when I wrote it, and it is still true now, that my words are restricted by the NDA. However, since the topics discussed in public have been increasing, as that volume grows, I am also becoming able to say more. I believe I will be able to share even more in the near future.
[Kou Nanao, 26:47] あ、よく分かりました。ありがとうございます。
(EN) I see. Thank you very much.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 26:50] じゃ、次は私の方から。原稿は政府の出版前審査を通っているにも関わらず、本書には機体の回収や、報じられるところでは非人間的な生体の回収に関わったとされる企業名や研究所名が具体的に記されています。こうした記述は、なぜ審査を通過できたのでしょう？機密扱いではなかったのでしょうか？
(EN) Next, a question from me. Despite the manuscript undergoing government pre-publication review, this book specifically names corporations and laboratories allegedly involved in the recovery of craft and reportedly non-human biologics. How did these descriptions pass the review? Were they not classified?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 27:16] The manuscript went through a government pre-publication review process, and yet the book still names specific companies and laboratories said to have been involved in recovering craft and reportedly non-human biologics. How did those details survive the review? Were they not considered classified?
[Luis Elizondo, 27:38] Well, that's an excellent, excellent question as well. Um, really, it's a, it's a loophole in our bureaucracy. Um, there are aspects of our government that are highly classified. And there are two reasons that we keep information classified legally here in the United States. One is to protect sources, the other is to protect methods. In either case, the fact that there were government operations working with civilian companies is not classifiable. And the fact that some of these companies historically engaged UFO analysis and research, uh, is also it, it cannot be classified. Perhaps the results of that analysis can be classified, but the mere fact that they are conducting research and analysis on behalf of the US government, that cannot be, that cannot be classified.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 28:38] また、とても素晴らしい質問ありがとうございます。えー、この官僚的な、とても官僚的な制度には抜け道があります。えー、これが何であるのかって言うと、１つは、まあ、情報源を守ること。もう１つは、その方法を守るというのがあるんですけれども、えー、まあ、内容で言うと、政府が、え、企業と働いているということは隠すことができないんです。つまり、あの、どのようなリサーチの結果が出ているかということは、あの、機密情報なんですけれども、政府に依頼されて企業がこういうことをしているということは機密情報ではないんです。
(EN) Thank you for another excellent question. There are loopholes in this highly bureaucratic system. What they are, on one hand, is protecting sources, and on the other hand, protecting methods. But regarding the content, the government cannot hide the fact that they work with private corporations. In other words, while the results of the research are classified, the fact that corporations are doing this work at the request of the government is not classified.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 29:18] あー、なるほど。
(EN) Ah, I see.
[Kou Nanao, 29:19] いわゆるアウトソーシングしてるから、FOIAの対象ではないってことですね？
(EN) So, because it is outsourced, it is not subject to FOIA?
[Kou Nanao, 29:25] あ、ちょっとそれ訳してください。FOIAの対象ではないってことですね、民間企業は。
(EN) Ah, please translate that. Private corporations are not subject to FOIA, right?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 29:29] Do you mean that, uh, they are not, uh, the subjects of, uh, Freedom of Information Act?
[Luis Elizondo, 29:38] Well, again, a very, very insightful question. Uh, that's a question that very few people have asked me. Um, so I'm very pleased to, to, to hear this question raised publicly. Um, so Freedom of Information Act, uh, what we call FOIA, only applies to US government organizations and institutions. It does not
[Luis Elizondo, 30:00] mandate private organizations to release information to the public. That law only applies to governmental agencies and organizations.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 30:11] えー、この情報公開法、FOIAというのは、えー、アメリカ政府とその機関だけが対象となっていて、えー、私的な団体、例えば企業には、えー、に何か強制するということはできません。
(EN) The Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA, only applies to the US government and its agencies, and cannot compel private entities like corporations.
[Kou Nanao, 30:29] なるほど。
(EN) I see.
[Kou Nanao, 30:30] そういうことね。
(EN) So that's how it is.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 30:31] あ、それで、それでロッキード・マーティンの方も来てたと。
(EN) Ah, and that's why people from Lockheed Martin were there too.
[Kou Nanao, 30:33] そういうことね。
(EN) I see.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 30:34] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 30:35] はい。えー、３つ目のクエスチョンです。このイミレントの中で、これ非常に面白い、えー、記述がありまして、ご自宅、えー、エリドンドさんのご自宅の中に現れた、このバスケットボール大のオーブ、えー、について描写されています。えー、この中でですね、そのオーブは色によって、様々なカラーがあるんですが、えー、色によって性質が異なる可能性があって、例えば青いオーブは有害な生物学的影響と関連づけて報告されている、との記述がありました。この見方はどこから得たものでしょうか？えー、ご自身の経験に基づくものなのか、政府プログラムからの情報か、あるいはその両方でしょうか？そして、もう１点なんですが、これ情報の世界でのあなたの経歴を、ご経歴を踏まえますと、これらの遭遇を録画しようとは考えなかったのでしょうか？そして、これまでのすべての経験を得て、あなたご自身はこれらのオーブが何だったとお考えか、ぜひ教えていただきたいと思います。
(EN) Yes. Here is the third question. In Imminent, there is a very interesting description of a basketball-sized orb that appeared inside your home. In the book, you write that these orbs come in various colors, and their properties may differ depending on the color—for instance, blue orbs have been reported in connection with harmful biological effects. Where did you get this perspective? Was it based on your own experience, information from government programs, or both? And one more point: given your background in the intelligence community, did you ever think about recording these encounters? And after all your experiences, what do you personally think these orbs were? Please tell us.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 31:39] In your book Imminent, you describe basketball-sized orbs appearing inside your home. You also mentioned that different colored orbs may have different characteristics, with blue orbs reportedly associated with harmful biological effects. Where did this understanding come from? Was it based on your own experience, information from government programs, or both? And given your background... and given your background in intelligence, did you ever consider recording, recording these encounters? And after everything you've experienced, finally, what do you personally believe these orbs were?
[Luis Elizondo, 32:22] Wow. Uh, well, a lot to unpack. Let me, let me start by addressing the first question.
[Kou Nanao, 32:28] あ、どうぞ。お願いします。
(EN) Ah, go ahead, please.
[Luis Elizondo, 32:31] So, uh, my, my observations of orbs, um, were experienced by my immediate family and even my neighbors at the time. Uh, it was a green diffuse ball, uh, roughly the size of a volleyball, uh, that my family and I noticed from time to time. Um, there was no real specific time, so we had no way to anticipate when we would see these balls. Uh, and we saw them actually inside our own home. Um, and if it wasn't for my own family to witness these, and also our neighbors who also witnessed these while we were gone, uh, they, they reported they would call me and say that it looked like there was a proverbial party going on at my house. Um, and yet nobody was in our house at the time. The house was vacant. Um, now, it is easy for one to chalk this up to natural weather phenomenon, ball lightning or some sort of uh, i- atmospheric ionization, but what made this so peculiar is that while my family was experiencing these, they were also being experienced by other individuals who were also assigned to the AATIP program. And as far as the colors you were asking me specifically, the only interaction my family and I have ever had directly with orbs were green in color. However, we are now seeing with the release of many documents coming from the United States government that uh, there are several different morphologies of these lights, which I will, I will discuss in a moment, but allow the, I'm going to allow the translator a moment here to, to convey what I just said, and then I will continue.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 34:16] えー、このオーブは、えー、私の家族も見ていて、また私の、えー、ご近所さんも見ています。隣人も見ています。で、えー、特に緑で、ま、バレーボール大の大きさで、で、突然現れる、ま、いつ現れるというのは、とても不定期でした。で、家の中で見ました。で、えー、あの、例えば私たちが家にいない時に、えー、隣人から連絡があって、家の中でまるでパーティーが起きてるようだって、いう風に言われたこともあります。で、えー、もちろん、あの、天候のため、雷とかいう人もいるんですけど、
(EN) This orb was seen by my family, and also by my neighbors. It was green, about the size of a volleyball, and would appear suddenly at very irregular times. We saw it inside the house. For example, once when we were not at home, a neighbor contacted us saying it looked like there was a party going on inside the house. Of course, some people might say it was because of the weather, like lightning...
[Kou Nanao, 34:57] 自然現象。
(EN) A natural phenomenon.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 34:58] はい。自然現象ということもある、と、という人もいるんですけど、ま、それはないと思います。なぜなら、あの、AATIPプログラム、彼らのプログラムに一緒に関わってい、て、いた他の人たちの、の家でも同じようなことが起きました。
(EN) Yes. Some people say it could be a natural phenomenon, but I don't think so. This is because similar things happened at the homes of other people who were involved in the AATIP program.
[Kou Nanao, 35:12] そうですね、ヒッチハイク効果。
(EN) Right, the hitchhiker effect.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 35:14] はい。で、えー、私が直接、私たちが直接関わったオーブは、みんなあの、緑のものでした。しかし、えー、アメリカ政府の、持っている、えー、文書によると、えー、いろんな形があるという風に言われています。
(EN) Yes. The orbs we personally encountered were all green. However, according to documents held by the US government, they are said to come in various shapes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 35:33] Okay, please go ahead.
[Luis Elizondo, 35:35] So for this reason, it was very peculiar because other individuals who were assigned to AATIP, their families were also experiencing precisely the same phenomenon that my family was experiencing while we were all assigned to the same program. So, it's, it's easy to chalk this up or to explain this away as some sort of atmospheric aberration, but the reality is statistically that would be extremely remote possibility for all of us to be experiencing the same thing uh, roughly at the same time. Now to discuss more specifics about morphology, there are several colors that have been identified. There are, they range from colors of white, to red, green, and even blue. My experience with blue orbs, I have not had any. Um, those were other colleagues of ours and we had a research facility at the time at a ranch in, in, in Utah, where these orbs were, were, were observed on many occasions. And on one particular occasion, uh, blue-colored orbs had lured two, two dogs out into the field, and when the, when the owner tried to recover the dogs, um, unfortunately, there wasn't very much left of the, of the poor animals. Um, the, the, they heard the dogs, um, bark, uh, almost uh, in distress, and then when they went to go uh, find the dogs, the two dogs, um, were, uh, well, how do I say, um, excuse, to say the word, but they were liquefied.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 37:18] えー、ちょうどま、その頃、えー、他の人たちもこれを経験していたということは、えー、そのオーブの経験があったということは、つまり天候であるということは、えー、統計学的に考えると、ま、ほぼあり端ないと思います。で、えー、色なんですけれども、ま、白いもの、赤いもの、緑のもの、青いものっていうのがあるという風に言われていて、特に青いオーブの話なんですけれども、で、我々は当時ユタ州に、えー、研究施設があったんですけれども、そこではある時、２頭の犬がそのオーブに、ま、誘い出されて、どっかについていってしまったんですけれども、えー、その時、えー、えー、とてもこう、あの、危機的な状況にあるような、えー、ように吠えました、犬が。で、行ってみたら、えー、そこにはもう犬の遺骸のようなものが、ま、液状化っていう風に表現されるんですけれども、えー、ほとんどもう、あの、身体が残ってないような状態で、えー、でした。
(EN) The fact that other people were experiencing the exact same thing around that time makes the weather explanation statistically almost impossible. As for the colors, they are said to come in white, red, green, and blue. Regarding the blue orbs in particular, we had a research facility in Utah at the time, and once two dogs were lured away by an orb. At that time, the dogs barked as if they were in a critical, life-threatening situation. When we went to check on them, their remains were in a state described as liquefied, with almost none of their bodies left.
[Kou Nanao, 38:27] これ、すいません。今のお話って、私、エリドンドさんの大ファンなんで、ネットでは見てるんですが、今お話しくださったっていうのは、公には初めてですか？
(EN) Excuse me, but regarding what you just said—as a big fan of Mr. Elizondo, I've read about it online, but is this the first time you've spoken about it publicly?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 38:38] Is this the first time you discussed this, uh, incident with the, the dogs in Utah?
[Luis Elizondo, 38:45] It is the first time I have discussed, um, this incident. It has been discussed before by other, uh, participants of, of the program I was involved with. I don't know if it's ever been discussed publicly, um, but that, that did indeed occur.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 39:02] あの、これは私がこの件について話すのは初めてなんですけれども、他のメンバーがこの件について触れたことがあります。でもこれはあの本当に起きたことということは、えー、確かです。
(EN) This is the first time I am speaking about it myself, though other members have touched upon it before. But it is certain that this actually happened.
[Kou Nanao, 39:14] 浅川さん、何かありますか？
(EN) Ms. Asakawa, do you have anything to add?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 39:16] あの、家の中でのバレーボール上の球体、
(EN) About the volleyball-sized sphere inside the house...
[Kou Nanao, 39:20] バスケットボールの。
(EN) Basketball-sized.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 39:20] バスケットボールの。明るさはどれくらいだったのか。あの、もうライトがものすごく眩しいくらいなのか、あるいは普通に目で見て、見えるくらいの明るさだったのかっていうのを教えてください。
(EN) Basketball-sized. How bright was it? Was it blindingly bright like a spotlight, or was it just bright enough to be normally visible to the eye? Please let us know.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 39:31] How bright were the orbs?
[Luis Elizondo, 39:35] Uh, I'm sorry, repeat please.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 39:37] How, how bright were the orbs?
[Luis Elizondo, 39:40] So the, the, my observations, it was very interesting, um, because they were luminous and yet there did not appear to be any active source of light. Um, it almost appeared like a neon glowing sign where there is no elements, there's no filaments, but uh, it radiates uh,
[Luis Elizondo, 40:00] light. And at the time, my family and I, a lot of, we have been asked if we were afraid. Um, we were not afraid. We were more curious than anything else, but we did not feel, feel threatened. But I will, I will share with you after, in a moment here, I'll share with you a, a couple of very real incidents that could have been very dangerous. Not for my family, but, but for, uh, for military personnel. And I, I will discuss that in a moment.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 40:29] ま、それは光っていたんですけれども、何かそう発光しているという感じじゃなくて、まるでネオンの光のようでした。で、私たちは、ま、それによって危害を加えられているというか、脅かされているような感じはしませんでした。で、あの、ちょっともう少し、実際に起きた、え、軍関係者に実際に起きたことについて、え、ご紹介したいと思います。
(EN) Well, it was glowing, but it didn't feel like it was emitting intense light; it was more like a neon light. We didn't feel harmed or threatened by it. Actually, I would like to share a bit more about what actually happened to military personnel.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 40:55] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 40:56] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 40:57] え、続けて。
(EN) Please continue.
[Luis Elizondo, 40:57] My...
[Ryo Kikuchi, 40:58] Oh, sorry.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 40:59] Please. Please, eh, continue.
[Luis Elizondo, 41:02] My country has recently released formerly highly classified documents, specifically about the Orbs. And the general consensus by our intelligence community, our CIA, our DIA, our NSA, have all concluded that these things are, are very real, and in some cases, may pose a potential threat to our military equities. As a case in point, I would like to share with you a very brief story.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 41:36] えー、わ、まあ、アメリカ政府が最近、えー、公開した、えー、以前はとても、あの、高度な機密情報だった文書によると、やっぱりこのようなオーブがあって、それを、えー、私たちの情報機関、例えばCIA、NSAだとかは、えー、本物だという風に、本当の事象だという風に考えています。で、そしてそれらは、まあ、あの、米軍にも脅威を与える存在だという風に言われています。
(EN) According to recently declassified US government documents that were previously highly classified, these kinds of orbs do exist, and our intelligence agencies, such as the CIA and NSA, consider them to be a real phenomenon. They are also said to pose a threat to the US military.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 42:04] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Luis Elizondo, 42:06] So we have been experiencing this orb phenomenon for decades. Um, it appears going all the way back towards the end of World War II over Europe, where allied aircraft had reported seeing, uh, these strange balls, luminous balls in the sky, and they referred to them as foo fighters. Um, it's an, it's a, it's a made-up name. It's not a, it's not a... so if it's hard to pronounce or understand, um, it's because it's not a real word. But they called them foo fighters. And, uh, I'll let you translate that and then I'm going to, I'm going to tell you what happened recently.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 42:43] Yeah.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 42:44] えー、このようなものというのは、もう何十年も目撃されていて、えー、第二次大戦の終わりの頃にヨーロッパで、えー、不思議な発光体が、空、ヨーロッパの空で不思議な発光体が見られていて、それはフーファイターズという風に呼ばれていました。
(EN) These things have been sighted for decades. Near the end of World War II, mysterious glowing objects were seen in the skies over Europe, and they were called foo fighters.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 43:02] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 43:03] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 43:04] Yes.
[Luis Elizondo, 43:05] So, it's, it's interesting because in World War II, the witnesses described seeing these luminous balls that would actually follow combat aircraft in and out of, uh, in and out of combat engagements. And about, um, probably about eight years ago now, the United States, we have a helicopter testing facility in Alabama. Uh, I have to be careful, I can't say exactly where it is, but we have a, a, a helicopter testing facility where we test all of our new technologies and our new helicopters. And there are six test pilots that are part of this program. And within one month, all six test pilots reported seeing these red glowing orbs that seemed to either be chasing or following the helicop- the test helicopters. Uh, one of the test pilots reported that he, he, he felt that these, these objects were just being curious, while another test pilot, um, it was in a little bit more, more serious situation. Um, as he was flying his test helicopter, three luminous balls of light, uh, approached his helicopter. And his helicopter lost all power. And so he began to, to conduct, uh, something what they call auto rotation, emergency auto rotation, which is trying to save the helicopter. And as he's coming down, and the helicopter's about to crash, the three orbs disappeared over the horizon, and he, all of a sudden, was able to gain full function of his helicopter again at the very last minute, and actually saved the helicopter. But within one month, all six test pilots encountered these, these red orbs that seemed to be very curious in, in, in our military capabilities.
[Kou Nanao, 45:00] すごい。
(EN) Amazing.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 45:01] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 45:02] えー、このようなオーブというものは、第二次大戦の時には、えー、その、飛行機が実際に戦闘を行っている時に、えー、追っかけてきたりしていました。で、えー、まあ、8年ぐらい前のことなんですけれども、これはあの、ヘリコプターの、えー、新しいヘリコプターの、テスト試験場で、アラバマにあるんですけれども、そこで起きたことなんですが、そこでは新しい、最新の技術、ヘリコプターがテストされていて、6人のパイロットがいました。その6人のパイロット全員が、えー、オーブに追っかけられた、えー、赤く光ったオーブに追っかけられた。で、えー、まあ、単なる好奇心で追っかけてるのかなと思った人もいるんですけれども、えー、中には、えー、3つのオーブに追っかけられて、ヘリコプターが、えー、動力をなくしてしまって、オートローテーションモードに入って、えー、つい墜落する直前で、3つのそのオーブは、えー、彼方に消えていってしまった。そしたら動力が突然戻って、まあ何とか助かった。そのようなことがありました。
(EN) Well, during World War II, these kinds of orbs actually chased planes while they were in combat. And about eight years ago, this happened at a testing facility for new helicopters in Alabama where cutting-edge helicopters were being tested, and there were six pilots. All six pilots were chased by orbs—glowing red orbs. Some thought they were just being followed out of curiosity, but in one case, a helicopter was chased by three orbs and lost all power, entering autorotation mode, and just before it crashed, the three orbs flew off into the distance. Then the power suddenly returned, and they managed to survive. That kind of thing happened.
[Luis Elizondo, 46:11] And why is this important? It's important for several reasons because it's not as, just the United States military and the intelligence community that is experiencing this phenomenon. We now know that countries like Russia, China have also been experiencing this orb phenomena, along with many nations in South and Central America. Um, these reports of these, of these lights, these orbs, um, seem very consistent with some sort of potential surveillance or reconnaissance.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 46:46] すごい話だ。
(EN) That's an amazing story.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 46:49] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 46:50] えー、どうしてこの件が大切だと言うかと、言いますと、これはあの、アメリカだけじゃないんです。ロシア、中国、そして、えー、中南米の国々、そういうような国々でこのようなオーブというのは見られていて、どうもその行動を見ると、まあ、偵察を、しているかのように思えるんです。偵察行動をとっている、オーブが。
(EN) Well, as to why this issue is so important, it's not just in the US. These kinds of orbs have been seen in Russia, China, and Central and South American countries, and based on their behavior, they seem to be conducting reconnaissance. The orbs are acting as if they are performing reconnaissance.
[Kou Nanao, 47:18] あの、質問していいでしょうか？あの、エリゾンドさんの家で見たやつはバスケットボール大。そして、パイロットが、おそらく目撃した、もうちょっと大きいんじゃないかと。つまり、サイズが、ちょっと、スケールが、サイズスケールが異なってるんじゃないかと思いますが、サイズだけが違うんでしょうか？それとも、全く別のオーブなのか、種類がですね。そこをちょっと、見解をお聞きしたい。
(EN) If I may ask a question: the one you saw at your house, Mr. Elizondo, was about the size of a basketball. And the ones the pilots saw were probably a bit larger. In other words, the size, the scale of the sizes, seems to be different. Is it just the size that's different? Or are they completely different types of orbs? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 47:45] まあそうですね、サイズだと色も。
(EN) Well, yes, the size, and also the color.
[Kou Nanao, 47:47] うん、そうですね。
(EN) Right, yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 47:50] So, um, how would you compare the orbs that you saw and the orbs that, uh, chased, for example, these pilots? Uh, we believe that maybe they're bigger, and you said that they were in different color, but, uh, anything else, any other difference in terms of, uh, observable characteristic?
[Luis Elizondo, 48:12] Sure. Well, the, the general consensus is that these orbs may be some sort of remotely operated or autonomous type, uh, collection capability. Um, some may potentially have, uh, be weapons capable as well, particularly the blue ones. Um, but it appears that these, these luminous balls of light may be some sort of, of collection platform, um, and would be potentially unmanned, simply because of the size. They, they tend to be very, they're not large enough really to, to contain some sort of technical type vehicle, certainly not one that we are familiar with. Um, but it's important to know that, I think if you look through some ancient text, not just recent text, but ancient text, uh, within the Vatican and other, other religious institutions, there have been reports for centuries of these luminous balls of light. In fact, when I visited Argentina, down into the, area called Patagonia, Patagonia is in the southern part of Argentina, there was a local indigenous tribe there called the Mapuche people. And the Mapuche people have been, uh, reporting for many, many years these, these orbs. However, they ascribe a spiritual aspect to them. Uh, they do not describe them from a technical perspective. They actually believe that these are spirits of ancestors. Um, and that is, that is their, that is their perspective. My point to this is that, for, for many years, this, this phenomenon of orbs have been rep-
[Luis Elizondo, 50:00] ...ported by people around the world, not just here in the United States.
[Kou Nanao, 50:04] えー、１つの、まあ一般的に合意できることがあります。みんなが思っていることがあります。で、それはこれらのオーブというものは、えー、おそらく、えー、どっか遠隔で、えー、操作されている自動、自律的な、えー、自律的なもので、何かこう、集める能力があるんじゃないかと。
(EN) Well, there's one thing that is generally agreed upon, something that everyone thinks. That is, these orbs are likely automated, autonomous things controlled remotely, and they probably have some capability to gather information.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 50:27] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 50:27] 情報収集...
(EN) Information gathering...
[Ryo Kikuchi, 50:28] 情報収集と。
(EN) Gathering information, yes.
[Kou Nanao, 50:29] 情報、例えば情報収集ができるんじゃないかと。でもまあ青い方は、えー、攻撃などもできるようです。で、えー、何かが載ってたり入ってるという風には、まあサイズからはあまり考えられません。あと、もう１つ大切なことなんですけれども、これは、あの、古いテキスト、古代からの例えば、えー、文書などを見てみても、こういうものはよく出てきます。例えば、バチカンで、えー、にある、えー、あの、文書にも、こういうような光を見たというような話は出てきます。もう何百年も光ってる球を見たという話はあるんです。で、例えばなんですけれども、パタゴニア、アルゼンチンのパタゴニアでは、マプチェという人たちがいるんですけれども、この人たちは、もうずっと、えー、このような光を見たと言っていて、でも彼らにとってこれらはスピリチュアルな存在です。例えば、先祖の、えー、霊だという風に考えているんです。でも、何が言いたかったのかというと、これはもうずっと色んなところで観察されてきたことなんです。
(EN) Information, yes, like they are capable of gathering information. But the blue ones seem to also be capable of attacking. Given their size, it's hard to imagine that anyone is inside or riding them. Also, another important point is that if you look at ancient texts and documents, these things appear quite often. For example, documents in the Vatican contain stories of seeing these kinds of lights. There are accounts of people seeing glowing spheres dating back hundreds of years. For example, in Argentine Patagonia, there are the Mapuche people, and they have been saying for a long time that they see these lights, but to them, these are spiritual entities. For instance, they believe they are the spirits of their ancestors. But my point is that this has been observed in various places for a very long time.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 51:31] 素晴らしい。
(EN) Fascinating.
[Luis Elizondo, 51:33] Allow me to to to express how serious um the United States considers this this topic. Um one of my colleagues who had experienced this type of orb activity, him and his family became very sick. Um almost consistent with with cancer type um type of illness. And to the point where the US government actually had uh was concerned about his living situation and helped purchase his house from him so he could buy another house for him and his family. Um a lot of the sickness uh seemed to be very consistent with some sort of radiation poisoning, which if you think about uh a a highly energetic localized ball of energy, um it's uh it it certainly can be consistent um if you get too close to something like that, like your your modern microwave oven. Imagine uh standing close to your microwave oven uh without a without the door on the on the oven. You can imagine that uh the stray radiation would be um would would not be good for for our health. And it appears to be very similar type injuries sustained by individuals, military people, intelligence people, not civilians. We we we were just focusing on on military and intelligence personnel who had gotten too close to some of these orbs and apparently had suffered um biological consequences.
[Kou Nanao, 53:07] え、アメリカ合衆国はこの件をとても真剣にとっています。え、私の同僚なんですけれども、彼はこの、え、オーブに接触したせいで、え、非常に、え、重い病気になりましたと。がんのような病気になりましたと。で、アメリカ政府はこの問題についてとても真剣にとっています。どれほど真剣にとっているのかというと、まあ、彼そのオーブが出る家を買い取って、え、彼が別の家を買えるようにしたと。で、え、よく考えてみてください。このオーブのようなものは、まあ、あの、電子レンジにドアがついてないようなもので、まあ、放射能のようなもので、え、その高いエネルギー性から、え、何か人体に危害を、え、与えているようです。で、これは我々の、まあ、軍人ですとか、あと情報機関員ということで、実際に起きていることです。
(EN) The United States takes this matter very seriously. One of my colleagues became very seriously ill, getting a cancer-like illness, because of his contact with these orbs. And the US government takes this issue very seriously. To show you how seriously they take it, they actually bought the house where the orb appeared so that he could buy a different house. And think about it: this orb is like a microwave oven with the door off; due to its high energy levels, it seems to emit something like radiation that causes harm to the human body. And this is actually happening to our military personnel and intelligence officers.
[Luis Elizondo, 54:01] And if I can make something clear as well. Um I I have always considered myself to be a man of science. Um when I went to to the university, um I graduated as a microbiologist and immunologist studying medicine. I then entered into the army and uh was a military intelligence officer. So, I I worked in military intelligence, uh running investigations, and then later when I became a special agent in counterintelligence, um I was very focused on conducting investigations based on fact, not supposition, not opinion. What does the data suggest? So, I've always considered myself a a disciple of the scientific methods. um I am not prone to flights of fancy. Um I never followed the UFO topic before it became my job officially. Uh and I wasn't very interested in science fiction as a child. Um and nor did I have the luxury when I was in the government to really consider the topic of UFOs seriously. However, as an intelligence officer, once you start collecting more and more data, the case becomes very, very compelling that what we are dealing with is something that is very, very real.
[Kou Nanao, 55:23] え、ここで１つはっきりとさせておきたいことがあります。私は、え、科学を信じています。え、大学でも、え、マイクロバイオロジー、え、生物学、微生物学を勉強しましたし、え、まあ医学的なことも勉強しましたと。で、そのあと、え、情報機関に勤めて色んな捜査をしていましたと。で、え、カウンターインテリジェンス、まあ、の、エージェントでも、特別捜査官でもありました。え、そういう風に考えると、私はもうデータというものをとても尊重していて、科学的手法というものを本当に、え、信頼しています。で、UFOとは、あの、興味を持ったこともありませんでした。
(EN) Now, I want to make one thing clear. I believe in science. In college, I studied microbiology and biology, and I also studied medical science. After that, I worked in the intelligence community and conducted various investigations. I was also a counterintelligence agent and a special agent. With that background, I respect data very much and truly trust the scientific method. And I never even had an interest in UFOs.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 56:07] ない。
(EN) Not at all.
[Kou Nanao, 56:07] SFについてもそうです。で、え、私がでも、あの、情報機関員として色々データを集めているうちに、もうこれは本当のものだという風に、まあデータが集まれば集まるほど思うように、なりました。
(EN) Same with science fiction. But as I gathered more data as an intelligence officer, the more data I gathered, the more I came to realize that this is real.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 56:26] なるほど。
(EN) I see.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 56:30] わかりました。ありがとうございました。いや、浅川さんどうですか？今お話を伺って。
(EN) Understood. Thank you very much. So, Mr. Asakawa, what do you think, having heard this?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 56:35] はい。
(EN) Well...
[Ryo Kikuchi, 56:36] なんか我々の、あの、ネットテレビから見てるエリゾンドさんのイメージと、ちょっと、それ正直にあの、お伝えして欲しい。
(EN) How does it compare to the image of Mr. Elizondo we have from watching him on internet TV? Please be honest.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 56:39] そう、そう。
(EN) Right, right.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 56:40] そうなんです。
(EN) Exactly.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 56:41] そうんです。
(EN) Exactly.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 56:42] そう。
(EN) Right.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 56:43] いや、ちょっと僕も同じこと考えてて。あの、ヒストリーチャンネルで出てたあの、ずっとテーマごとに動いてた時と、今日こうやってお話を聞いてると、本当に科学者だっていう感じで今日お話を伺ってて。何か、ネットで出てた、あるいはヒストリーチャンネルで出てた時は、すごくワイルドな感じで、あの、動いてた、見えてたんですけど、今日はもう本当に科学者のイメージでのお話なので、そのギャップがすごく感じてました。
(EN) Actually, I was thinking the same thing. Watching him move from theme to theme on the History Channel compared to listening to him talk today, he really feels like a scientist today. When he was on the internet or the History Channel, he seemed and acted very wild, but today he's talking exactly like a scientist, so I felt a huge gap.
[Kou Nanao, 57:14] Asakawa-san said that he's been very impressed with your, uh, very scientific attitude. It's a little bit different from the image that he had, he used to have of you on the History Channel. You were there, very wild.
[Luis Elizondo, 57:31] I can appreciate that. Um unfortunately, when you are um doing a a television show, uh sometimes the producers of the shows will take liberties and um how shall I say, help engineer a story that might be a little bit more interesting to to the average viewer. So, um I I am uh I am very much a a man of science. I always have been. Um I believe in science, there is truth. Um but let's not forget that there are many things in our universe that we now take for granted as being science fact, and at one time they were considered science fiction. And I'll give you some examples of that in a moment. Uh but I'll allow the I'll allow the translator uh the ability to to to translate first.
[Kou Nanao, 58:31] え、まあそれはよく分かります。やっぱりあのテレビをやる時というのは、まあプロデューサーがまあ、あの、自由にやらなくてはいけなくて、何かこう、あの、視聴者の受けが良いようなことをちょっと作ったりもするんです。で、え、でも大切なことなんですけれども、この宇宙でのことで私たちが今科学的な事実だと思っていることの多くは、え、昔は、え、とても信じられないようなことが多かったんです。
(EN) Well, I can understand that. When you do TV, the producers have to have free rein, and they sometimes sensationalize things to get good ratings. But the important thing is that many of the things in this universe that we now accept as scientific facts were once considered completely unbelievable.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 59:02] はい。はい。
(EN) Yes. Yes.
[Luis Elizondo, 59:05] So, for example, there's many concepts that were once considered strange or paranormal. Believe it or not, things like photography. To some indigenous cultures, uh they were very afraid of photography because they believed uh it would somehow steal some of the essence of the person in order to make the photograph. We now realize it's just it's just optics. Uh same thing in medicine. Uh there when I was at the University of Miami, uh we were always told many years ago that acupuncture uh was uh Eastern medicine and there was no basis in science. Now, you can go to any American hospital and they will actually prescribe acupuncture for the purposes of pain management, and it is very, very effective. Um many things which we do not understand, we tend to be dismissive about as a
[Luis Elizondo, 1:00:00] ...species. Um, and the only way to, to... to better understand something is to have the courage to, to ask the questions and to collect the data, and allow the data to speak for itself. Um, we as human beings, we, we tend to superimpose our values, our culture, our religion, uh, on almost everything. And in this particular topic, we have to really try to avoid that temptation and remain purely scientifically focused.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:00:37] えー、多くの私たちが、えー、不思議だと思っていた超常的だと思っていた概念、例えば写真もそうですけど、えー、写真は、えー、ある部族の人たちにとってはそれは何かこう人格を取られるようなものだった。でも、今は単に視覚的なものだという風に私たちは分かっています。医療でもそうなんですけれども、ちょっと前まではアメリカでは針治療というものは何の科学的根拠もないものだという風に言われていたんですけれども、今ではアメリカでも、えー、疼痛治療、痛みの軽減のために使われたり、えー、しています。えー、我々は何か分からないものに対して、えー、すぐに私たちの、まあ、価値観とか文化とか宗教で、何かあの押し付けをしてしまうんですけれども、でも、この件、UAPに関しては我々はそれを、えー、その誘惑を退けなければなりません。私たちは科学的に考えなければいけません。
(EN) Many concepts that we used to think of as mysterious or paranormal—like photography, for example. For some tribes, photography was thought to steal one's soul. But now, we know it's simply a visual medium. It's the same in medicine; until recently, acupuncture was said in America to have no scientific basis, but today it is used even in the US for pain management and reduction. When we face something we don't understand, we tend to immediately impose our own values, culture, or religion on it, but with this issue, UAP, we must resist that temptation. We must think scientifically.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 1:01:34] おっしゃる通りです。
(EN) You are exactly right.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:01:35] There, there have been many paradigm-changing moments uh in, in the history of humankind. And, although they don't happen very often in one's lifetime, I would submit to you that they are essential for the evolution of our species. And so, as an example, the first uh paradigm-changing moment may have been when uh humankind first gazed upon the heavens in wonder, and realized that our universe suddenly became much, much bigger. Another time where our paradigm may have changed is when a human being grabs two stones, struck those two stones, and created a spark, and for the first time, could illuminate the darkness. Uh, and perhaps, you know, another time was when two fishermen were standing on a beach, and one morning, one fisherman says to the other, 'Today is the day. Today is the day I sail over the horizon.' And, uh, of course, his friend standing on the beach with him told him, 'You, you don't want to do that because the Earth is flat, you'll fall off, and there's sea monsters that will, that will attack your ship.' Now, of course, uh we, we laugh now about that, um about sea monsters attacking boats, but the reality is, there really are sea monsters. They're called Great White Sharks, they're called Blue Whales, and they're called the giant squid of the Pacific, and they're not really monsters anymore, are they? They're just part of our new understanding of reality, our new understanding of nature, and our, and our place in it.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:03:13] えー、このようなおっきな、えー、思考の枠組み、つまりパラダイムの変化というのは何回も起きています。で、それは私たちの進化にとって大切なことでした。例えばですけれども、いつか人類は空を見て、えー、あれ？宇宙ってもっとおっきいんだなと思った。私たちの世界はもっとおっきいんだなと思った。あるいは石を、えー、２つぶつけて、えー、光、火花を出して、えー、光で闇を照らした。あるいは、えー、漁師が、えー、ちょっとあの、地平線の向こうに行って見るか？という風に思ったことがあった。で、その漁師、例えばその漁師が２人いて、えー、行かない方がいいよって言った方は、えー、例えばそこに、えー、何かこうモンスターがいるだとか、えー、という風に言ったかもしれないんですけども、まあ、確かにモンスターみたいなものはいる、いたでしょうと。例えばホオジロザメとかダイオウイカとかいるんですけど、でも我々はもうホオジロザメとかダイオウイカはモンスターという風には捉えないですよね。
(EN) These kinds of major shifts in frameworks of thought, or paradigm shifts, have happened many times. And they were crucial for our evolution. For example, at some point, humans looked at the sky and thought, 'Wait, the universe is much bigger. Our world is much bigger.' Or we struck two stones together to create sparks and illuminate the darkness with light. Or a fisherman thought, 'Should I go see what's beyond the horizon?' Now, if there were two fishermen, the one who said 'You shouldn't go' might have said something like, 'There are monsters out there.' And indeed, there were things like monsters—such as great white sharks and giant squid. But we don't think of great white sharks and giant squid as monsters anymore, do we?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:04:17] It, it reminds me of when I was in uh, when I was a young soldier. We, we learned here in the United States that um, that the Japanese Navy, in the, in the 1800s, had evolved faster than any other nation on the planet. Um, that when the Japanese first people had first been confronted with a, a modern navy, um, they had two choices. They could either ignore it, or they could understand it. And, and what the Japanese people chose was not only to understand it, but to, to improve it. And, um, I believe this topic uh is no different. I think we are, we are facing a fundamentally new type of experience as a species, and we have a fundamental choice. We can choose to either ignore it, or we can choose to understand it.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:05:17] えー、これはあの、私が、あの、まだ若かった頃に軍隊でならったことを思い出すんですけれけれども、えー、アメリカ、アメリカ、アメリカの軍隊にいた、にいた時のことなんですけども、その時にこうならいました。日本の海軍というのは、１９世紀にどの他の国よりも、えー、急速に大きな発展を遂げたと。で、なんでかって言うと、彼らは、えー、海外のからきた、えー、近代的な海軍に、えー、接した時に、えー、大切な決断をした。それは自分たちの、えー、海軍を、えー、向上させようということでした。私たちも同じような、決断の時にいるのかもしれません。
(EN) This reminds me of something I learned in the military when I was young. When I was in the U.S. military, I was taught that the Japanese Navy grew and developed more rapidly in the 19th century than that of any other nation. The reason was that when they encountered modern foreign navies, they made a critical decision. That decision was to improve their own navy. We might be at a similar moment of decision ourselves.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:06:08] まだ黒船のことですか。
(EN) Are you referring to the Black Ships?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:06:10] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:06:10] はい、ありがとうございます。
(EN) Yes, thank you very much.
[Kou Nanao, 1:06:13] あの、非常に興味深いお話で、で、次の質問にいってよろしいでしょうか。えっと、UFOについてお聞きしたいんですが、質問に進む前に、えー、あなたの捉え方をお伺いしたいと思います。UFO、あるいはUAPという時に、物理的な、いわば、その、ねじと金属でできているような、機体と、逆にですね、非物理的な現象とを分けて考えることには意味があるとお考えでしょうか。
(EN) That was extremely interesting. May I move on to the next question? I'd like to ask you about UFOs, but before that, I'd like to ask about your perspective. When we talk about UFOs or UAPs, do you think it makes sense to distinguish between physical craft—made of nuts and bolts, so to speak—and non-physical phenomena?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:06:47] When we say UFO or UAP, do you think it's useful to draw a line between the physical nuts and bolts craft on one hand and non-physical phenomena on the other?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:07:01] Wow, great question. Um, you know, I can't, I can't answer for everybody else, I can only answer for me personally. Um, I believe there is much to this phenomenon that we need to learn, but also there is much to this phenomenon um that may be related. And, allow me to digress here for just a moment, um, and let me allow the translator to catch up and then I'd like to give you an example of, of what I'm talking about.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:07:38] えー、まあ、私の個人的な見解になるんですけれども、この現象に関しては、とてもたくさん学ぶべきことがあります。それは何かに関係するんですが、それについてはちょっと今からお話しします。ある事例の、例の、例を挙げたいと思います。
(EN) Well, this is just my personal view, but there is so much to learn regarding this phenomenon. It relates to something, which I'll talk about now. I'd like to give an example of a case.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:10:00] ...ond our ability to directly perceive it. For example, if you had the ability to see the world as a bumblebee, you would see the world through ultraviolet frequencies, and you would see a completely different reality around you. What we perceive as a flower, a bumblebee can perceive much, much more. And yet, that is where most of reality lies. If you look at a part of the night sky with a radio telescope, you will see a reality that you don't normally perceive. You will see nebulas, you will see Large Magellanic Clouds, you will see, see a completely different reality. And that's really where most of reality lies. It lies beyond our ability to physically, directly observe it.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:10:45] えー、今、あの、バックグラウンドのところに、えー、天体望遠鏡で撮った写真というのが、画像というのがあると思うんですけれども、これは、えー、電波望遠鏡で撮ったものですが、人間の目ではこんなに見ることはできません。人間の目で見たら、まあ、あの、黒いもの、黒い、黒いものと、まあ、いくつかの、えー、点が見えるだけでしょう。でも、電波望遠鏡はこういう画像を捉えることができるんです。で、例えば、えー、ミツバチを考えてみてください。ミツバチというのは、紫外線を、えー、知覚することができるので、私たちとは全然違うものが見えてるんです。彼らがどういう風な花が見えるかっていうのを考えてみてください。
(EN) I believe you can see an astronomical image in the background now; this was taken by a radio telescope, but the human eye cannot see this much. To the human eye, it would just look like black space with a few dots. But radio telescopes can capture images like this. For example, think of honeybees. Since honeybees can perceive ultraviolet light, they see something completely different from what we do. Just imagine what flowers look like to them.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:11:27] So, we know that there are physical limitations, for us to perceive and understand our cosmos, our universe. But there's also physical limitations, and I'll explain that in a moment.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:11:42] Sorry, the first was physical limitation, and what was the second?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:11:46] Well, the first is a biological limitation.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:11:48] The first is biological, sorry.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:11:50] The second is a physical limitation.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:11:52] あの、一番最初のものは、あの、し、え、生物学的なものでした。で、これから、え、物理的な制約についてお話しします。
(EN) The first point was biological. Now, I will talk about physical constraints.
[Kou Nanao, 1:12:02] はい、お願いします。
(EN) Yes, please go ahead.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:12:04] So from a physical perspective, our cosmos is incomprehensibly large. In fact, astrophysicists and other planetary scientists now agree that the observable horizon of the universe we live in—the observable, not the actual size, but just the observable size—of our universal horizon is about 40 billion, 40 billion with a B, light-years across. If I look to my left and I look to my right, I can see roughly 20 billion light years in any direction. Um, and that is a, that is a huge number. Now, how far and how vast is a light-year? Well, it's the time it takes one photon of light to travel in a year. So, we know that light can travel at what approximately 186,000 miles per second, or roughly seven and a half times around our planet in one second. So imagine how far it can go in a day, imagine how far it can go in a week, and imagine how far it can go in a year. And now multiply that by 40 billion. Um, we live in a very, very vast reality. But it gets even more stranger than that. But I'll allow the, I'll allow our translator to catch up.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:13:30] で、この物理的な制約なんですけれども、例えば単に大きさのことを考えてみてください。
(EN) Regarding these physical constraints, for example, let's just consider size.
[Kou Nanao, 1:13:36] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:13:37] この宇宙というのは、もうすっごく大きいんです。理解できないほど大きいんです。えー、天体物理学者や、あの、惑星科学者などは、あの、私たちが住んでいる宇宙の、えー、観察できる、えー、地平線、まあ、実際の大きさではなく、観察できる限界というのが、約400億光年、400億、Bがつく400億光年ですね、その広さがあるという風に今、言われています。で、左を見ても右を見ても、どの方向にも200億光年見えるわけですけれども、それは本当に巨大な数字です。で、1光年というのが、まあ、フォトン、光の、えー、一粒子が、えー、1年間に、えー、動く距離ですけれども、光というのは1秒間に約18万6000マイル、地球を約7周半する速さですけれども、それが1日にどれぐらい進むか、1週間にどれぐらい進むか、そして1年にどれぐらい進むか、それをさらに400億倍してみてください。私たちは本当に広大な現実に生きています。しかし、それ以上に奇妙なことがあるんですけれども、ここで、えー、通訳に一回渡します。
(EN) This universe is incredibly vast. It's so big it's beyond comprehension. Astrophysicists and planetary scientists now say that the observable horizon of the universe we live in—not its actual size, but the limit of what we can observe—is about 40 billion light-years wide, 40 billion with a 'B'. Whether we look left or right, we can see 20 billion light-years in either direction, which is a truly massive number. A light-year is the distance a photon, a single particle of light, travels in one year. Light travels at about 186,000 miles per second, which is fast enough to circle the Earth about seven and a half times. Now think about how far it travels in a day, a week, a year, and multiply that by 40 billion. We live in a truly vast reality. But there is something even stranger, and I will hand it over to the interpreter for a moment.
[Kou Nanao, 1:14:10] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:14:11] So, um, size is a limitation for us. Um, and in fact, it has been assessed that there are more stars in our observable universe than there are grains of sand in all the beaches of all the world.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:14:28] で、しかも、えー、この宇宙には、えー、星だけで考えても、この地球上にあるすべての砂浜の砂の数よりも多いという風に言われています。
(EN) Furthermore, it's said that there are more stars in this universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches on Earth.
[Kou Nanao, 1:14:40] えっ、そうんだ。
(EN) Oh, really?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:14:42] And yet, if you compare that to the size of a quark, a subatomic particle, that quark in scale is roughly the same order of magnitude compared to us as we are to the size of the observable universe.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:15:01] で、そこでクォークの大きさを考えてほしいんですけれども、クォークの大きさ、まあ、素粒子ですけれども、それは私たちと比較した場合に、えー、宇宙の大きさと、
(EN) And I want you to think about the size of a quark. A quark is an elementary particle, but comparing its size to us is like comparing our size to the universe...
[Kou Nanao, 1:15:08] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:15:09] え、私たちと、だから、クォークの大きさっていうのは、宇宙と私たちの比率と同じぐらいの、えー、比率で違うんです。
(EN) Right, so the difference in size between a quark and us is in a similar ratio to the difference between us and the universe.
[Kou Nanao, 1:15:21] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:15:22] So comparatively, one can make the argument that there is just as much amount of space inside every single human being comparatively, as there is in the known universe. And yet, we as human beings, we are limited, because of where we sit in this scale of the universe, we can only interact or directly observe one or two orders of magnitude up or down. Or simply, the universe is simply too big or too small. We'll never be able to directly interact with it. And yet, that is where indeed most of reality actually lies.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:15:58] そういう風に考えると、まあ、私たちの体の中というのは宇宙と同じぐらい広いとも考えられるんですけれども、そのような私たちでさえ、宇宙はとても大きいので、私たちが実際に深く関わることのできる、まあ、現実の世界というのは、えー、本当に私たちに近いところだけなんです。
(EN) Thinking of it that way, you could say that the inside of our bodies is as vast as the universe, but even for us, because the universe is so large, the actual physical world we can truly interact with is limited to what is very close to us.
[Kou Nanao, 1:16:17] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:16:18] So when we're talking about a topic like UFOs or UAP, we have to keep an open mind because there is still much we have to learn.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:16:28] だから、UFOやUAPについて考えるときは、本当に、えー、心を開いて、いろんな可能性についてオープンなままで、えー、いなければ、いなければいけませんと。
(EN) So, when we think about UFOs or UAPs, we really, um, must keep an open mind and remain open to various possibilities.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:16:41] So if we go back to the story I told about two fishermen on the beach, I believe that we are entering a time period that's really no different. I think we are about to embark on a new journey. I think we're beginning to realize that our, our world, our universe, our reality may be, um, even more interesting than we previously thought. And I believe that we just may be standing, um, on another beach together about to sail over the next horizon.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:17:14] で、またあの、漁師の話に戻りますけれども、その、二人の漁師がビーチにいて、まあ、一人が、えー、あの、水平線の向こうに行ってみようという風に言ったときのことなんですが、私たちは同じような状況にいるのかもしれません。私たちの状況というのは、えー、また何か新しい水平線へと、えー、旅立つそういう時なのかもしれません。
(EN) To go back to the story of the fishermen, when those two fishermen were on the beach and one of them said, "Let's try going beyond the horizon," we might be in a similar situation. Our situation might be a time to set off, um, toward some new horizon once again.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:17:41] 昔、カール・セーガン博士が全く同じことを40年前に仰ってました。
(EN) Forty years ago, Dr. Carl Sagan said the exact same thing.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:17:48] Yes. Um, Carl Sagan said something similar about 40 years ago, Asakawa says.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:17:56] Yes. Um, I, I think we need to humble ourselves. If we want to explore the unknown, then we have to be willing to accept answers that we might not be comfortable with.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:18:08] えー、私たちは謙虚でいなければなりませんと。何か知らないことについて探求しようと思ったら、えー、もしかしたら、えー、自分にとって、えー、居心地の悪い事実を知ることがあるかもしれないですけれども、それは受け入れなくてはいけません。
(EN) We must remain humble. If we want to explore the unknown, we might discover facts that make us, um, uncomfortable, but we must accept them.
[Kou Nanao, 1:18:26] なるほど。覚悟が必要ですね。
(EN) I see. One needs to be prepared.
[Kou Nanao, 1:18:29] あの、一方でですね、エリゾンドさん、一部の研究者なんですが、例えばクラッシュ・リトリーバルやですね、リバースエンジニアリングという、その、ナラティブ全体がですね、それ自体一種の隠れ蓑じゃないかという声もあるわけです。つまり、えー、可能性でいう、可能性でいうと、UFO・エイリアンの話もあるんですが、例えばゼロポイントエネルギーとか、反重力、テレポーテーションといった分野での、いわゆる技術的ブレイクスルーを覆い隠すために、UFO・エイリアンというナラティブを持ってきてるんじゃないかと指摘しています。先ほどエリゾンドさんは可能性の話の中で、し、指摘いただいた中で、大変恐縮なんですが、この、えー、疑問についてどうお答えになりますか？
(EN) On the other hand, Mr. Elizondo, some researchers suggest that the entire narrative of crash retrieval and reverse engineering might itself be a kind of cover-up. In other words, in terms of possibilities, while there is the talk of UFOs and aliens, they point out that the UFO and alien narrative might have been brought in to conceal technological breakthroughs in areas such as zero-point energy, anti-gravity, or teleportation. I am very sorry to bring this up after the possibilities you just pointed out, but how would you respond to this question?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:19:21] Eh, so, some people argue that the crash retrieval or reverse engineering narrative or all the narratives surrounding, eh, surrounding UFO UAPs and aliens, extraterrestrials and so on, eh, is a kind of, uh, cover story, a way to keep, uh, breakthroughs in areas like zero-point energy, anti-gravity, or, or teleportation. Eh, how do you respond to that line of thinking or criticism?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:19:55] Well, it certainly can't be discounted, but the reality is there's a temporal or time...
[Luis Elizondo, 1:20:00] aspect to this where simply, um, that argument, um, is not logical and allow me to explain. But go ahead and translate first and then I'll explain.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:20:10] もちろんそれをそう簡単に、え、違うということは良くないとも思うんですけども、でも時間的なところを考えた時に、え、それはちょっとないんじゃないかなと思います。
(EN) Of course, I think it is not right to simply dismiss that out of hand, but when we consider the timeline, I don't think that is likely.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:20:21] うーん
(EN) Hmm.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:20:22] どうぞ
(EN) Go ahead.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:20:23] So, um, in the 1940s, the world's most technologically advanced countries included Japan, the United States—it took a little while for the United States to catch up—but with Japan, the United States, Germany, uh, and and several other nations. And if you look at that, uh, we had not yet been to space and we had not yet barely broken the sound barrier. And yet, we were observing phenomenon that were traveling at not supersonic speeds, but hypersonic speeds. And that these things had the ability conduct maneuvers, extreme maneuvers, uh, where G-forces were experienced in excess of 3,000, 4,000 Gs, well beyond not only the biological limitations of anything to survive, but more importantly, from a material science perspective, we simply did not have the science or the engineering to build such capabilities. Remember, we had not yet barely broken the the speed of sound, and what we were seeing were objects flying not at supersonic, but hypersonic velocities. And these objects were tracked on radar as well. So, whatever country had this capability, I think it would have certainly redefined warfare over the last 80 years. I do not believe the world would look like it does today if there was a single nation that had that technology back then.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:21:53] 1940年代では、え、日本やアメリカ、ドイツというのは、一番、え、科学技術、科学技術としては進んでるところだったと思うんですけれども、え、当時でもまだ音速を超えることはできませんでしたと。でも、え、私たちはもう当時すでに、え、音速どころか、もうその何倍ものスピードで、スピードの物体を、え、観測していました。うん。で、それは例えば、Gで考えると、え、4000G、はい、というものが経験されるような、もし乗っていたら。だから、あの、その中に誰か乗っているということはもうほぼ不可能ですし、え、物質科学的にもちょっと無理かなというような、え、高度な技術がもう当時すでに、え、観測されていたんです。で、そうに考えると、もし本当に、私たちの国の1つが、そのような技術を当時から持っていたら、当然戦争でそれを使っていて、え、今の世界のような世界にはなっていないでしょうと。
(EN) In the 1940s, while countries like Japan, the United States, and Germany were the most technologically advanced, they could not even break the sound barrier yet at that time. However, even back then, we were already observing objects traveling not just at the speed of sound, but at multiples of that speed. And in terms of G-force, that would mean experiencing something like 4,000 Gs, if someone were inside. Therefore, it would be almost impossible for anyone to be on board, and even from the perspective of materials science, it seems somewhat impossible—such advanced technology was already being observed back then. Thinking about it that way, if one of our nations really possessed such technology at that time, they naturally would have used it in the war, and the world would not be the way it is today.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:22:56] あ、そういうことなんですか。
(EN) Oh, is that how it is?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:22:57] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:22:58] いや、まさにおっしゃる通りだと思うんですけども、ただここに来て、いっちゃっていいですかね、その、中国だとか、ま、旧ソビエト・ロシアだとか、ま、北朝鮮も最近いろいろ技術を持ってる、日本からすると脅威が増してるんですけれども、あの、すでにそういう技術を、取得してる国があるのではないかと。ま、日本ももちろんこのUFO技術を持ってるんじゃないかって、それでもいろいろ聞かれたんですけど、そういった観点では、エリゾンドさんはどのようにお考えですか。つまりリバースエンジニアリングが実現できてるのではないかと、いう点については。
(EN) I think that is exactly right, but at this point—if I may ask—with countries like China, the former Soviet Union/Russia, and recently North Korea possessing various technologies, the threat to Japan is increasing. Is it possible that some country has already acquired this technology? I have been asked many times if Japan also possesses this UFO technology, but what are your thoughts on this perspective, Mr. Elizondo? That is, regarding the possibility that reverse engineering has actually been achieved.
[Kou Nanao, 1:23:32] うん、なるほど。
(EN) Yes, I see.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:23:36] Yes, maybe so historically you're right, but what about the current situation? Some people say that China, Russia, and maybe even North Korea have such technology. And actually when I was at SOL, uh, last year, some people asked me maybe Japan had such technology too. Um, what do you think of this, such a line of thinking?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:24:00] Well, I I think certainly it is it's, um, I think it's logical to presume that countries are indeed trying very hard to reverse engineer this technology. As I mentioned before, uh, using Japan as an example, when the Japanese were first exposed to the Western navy, they very, very quickly caught up and actually surpassed the Western capabilities. So, this is precisely why I think it's important that from an international perspective, we work together, because what we don't want to do is have a another Cold War, where different countries are trying to independently master this technology because the consequences are extreme. If we do not learn this to work together on this, um, I I I am very fearful because this has a capability several fold, several orders of magnitude greater than than than nuclear power. Um, and so we we must work together, this is precisely the reason why.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:25:08] 中国、まあ確かにそういうことあるかもし、あるとは思うんですけれども、え、というか、あの、論理的に考えて、まあそういうことが行われているだろうと。え、でもここで思い出さなきゃいけないのは、え、日本が、あの、黒船に会った時のことなんですけれども、日本は、え、科学技術をとても早く進歩させて、もうすでに、え、西側を、え、短期間で超えるほどでした。
(EN) With China, yes, that might indeed be happening, or rather, logically speaking, such efforts are probably being made. But what we must remember here is what happened when Japan encountered the Black Ships. Japan advanced its science and technology so rapidly that it surpassed the West in a short period of time.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:25:38] うん、そうですね。
(EN) Yes, that's true.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:25:40] で、我々が、え、心掛けなきゃいけないのはでも、国際的に協力することです。もう1つの冷戦というのを私たちは欲していません。私たちが一緒に働かなければ、共同することができなければ、恐ろしい事態に、なるでしょうと。で、この技術というのは、え、核の技術より、もっともっと、もう何十倍も、え、危険なものなのです。はい。
(EN) What we must strive for, however, is international cooperation. We do not want another Cold War. If we cannot work together and cooperate, the consequences will be terrifying. And this technology is far, far more dangerous—dozens of times more dangerous—than nuclear technology. Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 1:26:11] そうすると、あの、よく分かります。その、エリゾンドさんが、いわゆる一部のならず者国家がですね、そういったことになる可能性があるっていうのは、その通りだと思いますが、例えば今後、AI of... AIの発展、ASIですね、人工スーパー知能の発展によって、例えば、リバースエンジニアリングで、ある国が技術を持っていなくても、今後のASIの発展によって、ならず者国家もですね、ASIによって、答えが出てくるんじゃないかっていう、そういうおそれもあると思うんです。それで、もし米国がそういった技術をあるのであれば、むしろアメリカが主導で、その技術を、先導してですね、世界をリードしていく必要はあるんじゃないかと思いますが、この点いかがですか。
(EN) Then I understand very well. It is true, as you say, that there is a risk of so-called rogue states acquiring this. But, for example, with the future development of AI... ASI, Artificial Superintelligence, even if a country does not currently have the technology for reverse engineering, there is a concern that rogue states might get the answers through ASI. In that case, if the US possesses such technology, wouldn't it be necessary for the US to take the lead in directing this technology and leading the world? What are your thoughts on this?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:27:00] So, it's possible that we can imagine that some rogue states like Iran or North Korea would develop such technology, especially given the possible existence of the ASI, Artificial Super Intelligence, that may come, that may become realized very soon. And when we think of this danger, this risk, maybe we can say that the United States should be leading the effort to disclose such technology first, to take some initiative and leadership in the world.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:27:42] Well, I I don't disagree with you at all, but I tend to be, um, my perspective varies just slightly. Um, I, I obviously love my country, I'm very patriotic to it. However, with that said, um, I think this topic is much bigger than the United States, and I'm, I'm very fearful of any country, any country, to include the United States, of controlling a narrative that affects a, a global population. Um, I think there is always danger in doing that. Um, in the past, we have used neutral countries, such as Switzerland, to broker agreements. I think when it comes to the UFO/UAP topic, I think an international body such as the United Nations may be more appropriate. That way, um, this is technology that can benefit all of mankind, and not just one particular country. Um.
[Kou Nanao, 1:28:38] うーん
(EN) Hmm.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:28:38] あの、まあ確かにそうだとは思いますけども、え、ここでまた大切なことは、私はアメリカという国をとても愛している、私は愛国者なんですけれども、でもアメリカが、それを独占するようなこともあってはいけません。
(EN) Well, that may be true, but what is also important here is that while I love America very much and am a patriot, America must not monopolize it either.
[Kou Nanao, 1:28:52] はい
(EN) Yes.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:28:53] で、え、一国が、どこの国でも一国がそれを持っていると危ないんです。で、たとえば、あの、過去ではまあスイスのような国が仲介したりとか、まあ、あの、国連が仲介したりとかそういうような仕組みというのがあったと思うんですけれども、まあそういうような形で、物事を進める必要があるんじゃないでしょうか。
(EN) If a single country—any country—possesses it, it is dangerous. In the past, we had mechanisms where countries like Switzerland or the UN would mediate, and we probably need to proceed in a similar manner.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:29:14] I think we need to avoid the temptation of one country controlling the narrative. Um, it concerns me, and even though I am, I am staunchly loyal to my country here, because my family are immigrants, um, I also understand the reality that sometimes, when you live in a neighborhood, you need to involve all your neighbors.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:29:39] あの、ここで本当に、もう1回強調しておきたいんですけれども、1つの国が、この物語をコントロールするという、そういう誘惑に駆られることは本当に避けなければいけません。で、あの、よく考えてみたら、まあ近所の話でもそうなんですけれども、すべての隣人が一緒になって何かやっていくということが大切なんです。
(EN) I really want to emphasize once again that we must avoid the temptation of a single nation trying to control this narrative. When you think about it, just like in a neighborhood, it is crucial for all neighbors to work together.
[Kou Nanao, 1:30:00] なければいけないことってありますよね。
(EN) There are things we must do, aren't there?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:30:02] So, here's a case in point. Um, we know that UAP seem to be interested in our in our nuclear equities, our our nuclear technology and our nuclear capabilities. Um, before the, we had a, a, a, a almost a, a, a catastrophe here in the United States called Three Mile Island. Three Mile Island was a nuclear production facility, it was a nuclear power plant, and we almost had a meltdown. And interestingly enough, there were UAP reported both before and after the incident. If you look at Chernobyl, in Russia, well Ukraine, um, you will, you will see the same thing, that before and after the Chernobyl disaster in Pripyat, there was, uh, there were UAP sightings, um, both before and after in the, in the immediate area. And then of course if you look at Fukushima as well. Yes. While I was at AATIP, we had, uh, we had established various various hotspots where UAP activity was being witnessed, uh, not only by military personnel but even the civilian populace. And very much like Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, Fukushima, people had reported seeing UAP both before and after the event.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:31:17] いこう。いこう。これでいこう。これいこう。うん。いってください、これ。うん。いこう。
(EN) Let's go. Let's go. Let's go with this. Let's go with this. Yes. Please go ahead with this. Yes. Let's go.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:31:21] えー、UAPというのは、えー、核技術にとても興味があるようです。で、スリーマイル島の、えー、まあ、ではほとんど、アメリカのスリーマイル島の事件、事故ではほとんどメルトダウンが起きそうになりました。チェルノブイリは、でも事故がありました。で、この前後で、UAPが目撃されています。で、実は私がAATIPで、あの、働いていた時に、えー、福島についても調べたんですけれども、で、私たちは、えー、世界中のどこにUFOが、えー、多く目撃された場所があるかというのを探っていた時に、この件について知ったんですけれども、えー、福島では、えー、まあ、あの、軍の人でもそうなんですけれども、し、一般市民もそうなんですけれども、えー、たくさんのUFOが、えー、福島の事件、事故の、えー、前後で、目撃されています。
(EN) Well, UAPs seem to be very interested in nuclear technology. At Three Mile Island in the US, a meltdown almost occurred during the incident. And at Chernobyl, an accident did happen. UAPs were spotted around the time of both events. Actually, when I was working at AATIP, we also looked into Fukushima. We learned about this while researching where UFOs were most frequently sighted around the world. In Fukushima, many UFOs were witnessed by both military personnel and civilians around the time of the incident.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:32:15] あの、事故の前もですか？
(EN) Was that before the accident as well?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:32:17] 福島...
(EN) Fukushima...
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:32:18] 前後、前後
(EN) Before and after, before and after.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:32:20] Oh, so before the incident happened, you said.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:32:23] Correct, both before and after.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:32:25] そうです。前と後です。
(EN) Yes. Before and after.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:32:28] これなん...
(EN) What is this...
[Kou Nanao, 1:32:29] ずばり聞いてください、これ。
(EN) Ask him directly about this.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:32:31] あの、実は昨年の7月26日に玄海原発の上空に3つのUAPが現れて、初の日本で公式報告されたUAPなんですけど、それもこれから何かあるという風な予兆という風に考えてもいいんでしょうか。この原子力とUAPの関係というのは、エリゾンドさんどのように考えていらっしゃいますか？
(EN) Actually, on July 26th of last year, three UAPs appeared over the Genkai Nuclear Power Plant, marking the first officially reported UAP sighting in Japan. Should we consider this a warning of something to come? Mr. Elizondo, what are your thoughts on this relationship between nuclear energy and UAPs?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:32:52] So, um, in Genkai nuclear facility in Japan, on July 26, there was also a report, witness report of UAP observations. And now Asakawa says that he's very curious about your opinion about this UAP's occur- UAP incidents occurring before the accident, because he's afraid that maybe the fact that UAPs were observed at Genkai nuclear power plants indicates that such an accident might occur.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:33:32] So, yes, we we have noticed a significant interest, uh, by UAP in our nuclear equities. That includes nuclear power generation, nuclear weapon systems, and nuclear delivery systems. We have seen it time and time again here in the United States and overseas as well. The question whether or not, um, that UAP can predict a disaster or may have some sort of involvement in a disaster, we have not yet been able to substantiate. It is possible that, um, surveillance of our nuclear equities worldwide is just something that they do to monitor us for what- for an unknown reason as of yet to be discovered. Um, but, uh, the interest in our nuclear technol- technology and our atomic technology previously is nothing new for us. We've been experiencing it now for decades upon decades. The question, uh, that you're asking, which I think is a very good question, is there some sort of, uh, ability to to anticipate a disaster? And right now we don't have any data to suggest that, but it also does not mean that it's not possible.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:34:47] あの... えー、まあ、とにかくUAPが、えー、核施設、核、えー、原子力発電所もそうだし、えー、核兵器が、あの、いや、運ばれたり、あの、えー、準備されてる場所、実験されてる場所もそうなんですけれども、に出てくるというのは、まあ、確かなことです。でも、えー、UAPが、えー、だ、それに興味があるということは、まあ、確かなことなんです。でも、もしかしたら彼ら、常に見張ってるのかもしれません。でも、えー、あなたの質問は、えー、UAPがそれを予期、そういうような事故というものを予期することができるのかということなんですけれど、まあ、それにはまあ、データはありません。でも、えー、不可能だというには、まだ早い気もします。
(EN) Well... um, in any case, it is a fact that UAPs appear at nuclear facilities, including nuclear power plants, as well as places where nuclear weapons are transported, prepared, or tested. And it is a fact that UAPs are interested in them. But perhaps they are watching us all the time. However, to your question of whether UAPs can anticipate such accidents, we don't have data on that. Still, I think it is too early to say it's impossible.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:35:39] あの、よく言われるのは冷戦時代も含めて、ある国がある国に核ミサイル、核ボタンを押すとミサイルが発射されないことが何回かあったってお聞きしてるんですけど、やはりそういった事実はあるんでしょうか。
(EN) It is often said that, including during the Cold War, there were several instances where a country pressed the nuclear button but the missiles failed to launch. Are those indeed facts?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:35:55] Um, I've heard as rumors that maybe a country has launched a nuclear missile at some point or tried to launch one, and somehow they didn't succeed. Do you think that the case like that has actually happened?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:36:16] Well, we know that they have interfered several times in our country and in Russia. Here in the United States, we have a, uh, the northern tier provinces areas of the United States that house our ICBMs, our intercontinental ballistic missiles. And there are several occasions, uh, we have government reporting that substantiates this, that, uh, UAP have interfered with our readiness, have UAP have interfered with our ability, uh, to potentially launch if we needed to. In fact, there was, uh, in Malmstrom, uh, Air Force Base, there was a UAP incident that had taken down an entire what we call a flight of of nuclear missiles. Um, you can imagine nuclear missiles being like, um, lights on a on a Christmas Christmas lights on a string. Um, it's it's it's to this day, we have not been able to figure out how how they were able to interfere and bring offline our our nuclear missiles. But in Russia, um, there was actually incident where they were activated. Uh, and the Russians were fortunately able to to make sure that did not happen. Now, there was also a test we were doing in the early 1960s of a nuclear-capable ICBM, but there was no warhead on it. And as we launched the missile, a, uh, as it was flying downrange at roughly 800 nautical miles away and at 16,500 miles an hour, uh, we have camera footage of a UAP entering, um, the entering the the screen, performing a complete 360-degree, um, roll around the warhead, and what appeared to be scanning it. Um, what looked like some sort of energy or laser being emanated from the UAP as it scanned the warhead, and then it flies right back off screen again. And this is in the, uh, in the early 1960s.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:38:18] あの...
(EN) Well...
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:38:19] え？
(EN) Huh?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:38:20] いって確認で、これネット上で何度も見てますが、あれは本当なんですね。その、今エリゾンドさんがおっしゃった、回転してレーザーっていう画像を見たこと、動画を見たことがありますけれど、あれは本当ということでよろしいですか？
(EN) Just to confirm, I've seen this online many times, so that is actually true? I have seen images and videos of what you just mentioned, Mr. Elizondo—about them rotating and shooting lasers. Can we assume that is real?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:38:32] So, just to make sure, I've seen such a video once online, and you are saying that it's a real video.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:38:42] Well, I don't know the video you're looking at, but I can tell you we had the real video when I was at the Pentagon.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:38:47] まあ、あの、それがどうか分かんないんですけれども、ペンタゴンにいた時に、そのようなビデオを見たことがあります。Vandenberg AFB
(EN) Well, I don't know about that specific one, but when I was at the Pentagon, I saw a video like that. Vandenberg AFB.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:38:58] で、結局のところ、あの...
(EN) So, in the end...
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:39:00] Nanao-san.
[Kou Nanao, 1:39:01] 結局のところ、人間に、人類にとって、うーん、なんかすごいちょっと単純な質問でちょっと恥ずかしいんですが、人類を何らかの形でサポートしてるのか、あるいは敵なのかっていうそのジャッジっていうのは、長年研究されてると思いますが、今のところどういう見方が...
(EN) In the end, to humans, to humanity, um... it's a very simple question and I'm a bit embarrassed to ask, but do you judge that they are supporting humanity in some way, or are they enemies? You have been researching this for years, so what is the current view on this?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:39:21] ちょっとその前に、あの、さっきの訳したいんですけれども、確かに、えー、核兵器に干渉されたというのは何回もあります。で、ICBMが例えばランチする時の、えー、能力をオフにされたりとか、あるいは逆にロシアでのことなんですけれども、えー、ミサイルをオンにされたことも、発射をオンにされたこともあります。で、これは核弾頭のついてないものだったんですけれども、まあ、大陸間弾道ミサイルICBMが発射された時に、これはまあ実験で発射されたんですけれども、
(EN) Before we get to that, I'd like to address the previous point: it is true that nuclear weapons have been interfered with multiple times. For example, ICBM launch capabilities have been disabled, and conversely, in Russia, missiles have actually been enabled—their launches turned on. Now, this involved missiles without nuclear warheads, but when an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) was launched—this was launched as a test—
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:40:00] えー、UAPが飛んできて、それをまあ、とても高速だったのにも関わらず、周りをぐるぐる回って何かスキャンをしたというようなこともありました。えー、so what do you think of these UAPs? Do you think they are friends or foes?
(EN) ...a UAP flew in and, despite the missile traveling at a very high speed, circled around it and scanned it. So, what do you think of these UAPs? Do you think they are friends or foes?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:40:22] Wow. Um, you know, to answer that question, um, we have to avoid the temptation that, um, we—it's inherent within every human being. We look at the world through what we call anthropomorphic eyes, meaning we assign human value to everything because we're humans and we're looking through human eyes. We don't know how else to see the world. And that's the reason why, I have—I have five dogs. Um, and they all have human names and I treat them like little human beings, um, but they're really not human beings, they're—they're dogs. But I can't help but assign human attributes to things that are definitively not human. And we all do that. Um, it's—it's—it's—it's natural for us to do it, and it's almost impossible to avoid. So the real question is how do we—how do we study something that is definitively maybe—definitively not be human? Meaning, the things—the fundamental things that we consider human, uh, emotions, things like love, things like anger, uh, things like intent and motivation, um, may not be something that is—is necessarily shared with something that is not human. Um, so when we ask, "Are these things good or are they bad?", well, that's a human trait, isn't it? Good and bad is relative. Good and bad may differ even amongst ourselves, what we consider is good and bad. I might like chocolate ice cream and you might like vanilla ice cream. Um, so, uh, for us to—we have to avoid the temptation of—of thinking that whatever this is has the same motivations and intent as we as humans do. Um, our motivations and—and intent are based on the fact that we are animals living on a planet that is resource-starved, so there is always this competition between people, between nations, um, to—to gain more resources. Um, but if you look at, for example, artificial intelligence, there is no intent behind it. It is certainly intelligent, but it does not have intent and motivations like a human being. It lacks that. And so, um, it can often be—be—be confused as being human, but—but it is not. And so, we must, in order to understand what they are like, we first must to understand ourselves, what we are like, um, and that is the only way to really answer that question.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:43:10] なるほど。えー、私たちが今、避けなければいけない誘惑というのは、すべて人間の目でみることです。でも、これはしょうがないものです。私たちは犬も、たとえば人間のように扱ってるじゃないでしょ、あ、扱っていますよねと。でも、私たちが知らないもの、たとえばそのエイリアンのようなものについて考える時に、たとえば彼らの感情とか、愛とか、怒りとか、意思とか、動機だとか、そういう風に考えていいんでしょうか。それは人間のものです。たとえば善悪というものも、まあ人間のもの、人間の、えー、ものじゃないでしょうか。で、そういう風に考えると、たとえば私たちは、えー、この惑星で限られた資源がある、そういうところで進化してきた、まあ動物なんです。だから、人間は人間のように考えるんですけども、でも、たとえばAIを考えてみてください。AIは意思がありません。人間ととても違う存在です。そういう風に考えると、このような存在、エイリアンのような存在というのも、人間のように考える、わた、私たちが人間のように考えることはできないんじゃないでしょうか。少なくとも、彼らを本当に理解しようと思ったら、理解を超えてるかもしれない。そこでお聞きしたいのは、
(EN) I see. The temptation we must avoid right now is looking at everything through human eyes. But that is only natural. We even treat dogs like humans, don't we? However, when we think about things we don't know, like aliens, is it right to think of them in terms of human emotions, love, anger, intent, or motivation? Those are human concepts. For instance, good and evil are also human constructs, aren't they? If we think of it that way, we are animals that evolved on this planet with limited resources. So humans think like humans, but consider AI, for example. AI has no intent; it is an entity very different from humans. In that sense, wouldn't it be impossible for us to think of these entities, like aliens, in human terms? At the very least, if we truly want to understand them, it might be beyond our comprehension. So, what I'd like to ask is...
[Kou Nanao, 1:44:22] あ、どうぞ。
(EN) Oh, go ahead.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:44:24] In order to understand—In order to understand what an alien might be, we first must understand what a human is.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:44:34] あの、人間というもの、あ、そのいわゆるエイリアンというものが何かというのを考えようとしたら、まず人間自身というものを理解しなくてはなりません。
(EN) If we want to think about what the so-called aliens are, we must first understand humans themselves.
[Kou Nanao, 1:44:47] で、それでいうと、最近ですね、エリゾンドさんはリベレーション・タイムズのインタビューで、記者の方から、月における非人間的知性について直接的あるいは間接的な知識があるか、と質問された際、あなたは一言「イエス」と答えられております。で、ここで気になるのは、次の点で、アポロ計画なんですが、1972年に終了して、えー、米国が有人、有人の月探査計画を本格的再開しようとしたのは、およそ17年後。しかし、その計画は続かないでですね、実際に人類が月へ戻るためには54年を要しています。この長い空白は、あなたが言われたその、月に、月にあるものと何か関係があるんでしょうか？
(EN) Speaking of that, recently in an interview with the Liberation Times, when you were asked by a reporter if you had direct or indirect knowledge of non-human intelligence on the Moon, you answered with a single word: "Yes." What intrigues me here is the following point: the Apollo program ended in 1972, and it was about 17 years later when the US attempted to fully resume manned lunar exploration plans. However, that plan did not continue, and in fact, it took 54 years for humanity to return to the Moon. Does this long gap have anything to do with what you mentioned is on the Moon?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:45:34] You asked—you said in your interview on Liberation Times, you talked of—you mentioned—about, you talked about NHI on the moon. And they asked you about it and you just answered, 'Yes.' And, uh, Apollo, uh, went to the moon on, in 1972. 17 years later, there was another attempt, uh, but now, after 54 years, uh, the US is—or we are trying to get to the moon again. So, uh, could you comment on this, uh, thing, uh, possible NHI on the moon?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:46:16] Sure. Well, um, one only has to go back one month ago in our nation here, and our president had authorized the release of original NASA photographs and NASA, uh, transmissions. Now, before I begin, let me state that for the record, NASA, up until last year, has said publicly and officially that our astronauts see nothing in space, and that there are no photographs of any type of anomalous activity. Last month, our nation, um, made it available to the world that indeed a lot was happening with the Apollo 11 missions, Apollo 12, later on with—with further on Apollo missions, that astronauts were indeed experiencing strange encounters, phenomenon, but more importantly, that photographs have been taken from the surface of the moon itself, that depicted, uh, very interesting objects, um, above the lunar surface. Now, it's important to understand at the time, we did not have satellites orbiting the moon. All we had was the Lunar Orbiter, which was waiting to rendezvous with the Lunar Lander, and that was the only thing orbiting the moon. And what you see in some of these NASA photographs appear to be triangular vehicles, uh, lighted vehicles. Um, and NASA has now said for the record that what you are seeing in these photographs may indeed be real things.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:47:54] えー、たった1ヶ月前なんですけれども、NASAがある写真を、え、発表しましたと。まあ、NASAのある写真が、え、情報公開されました。で、えー、これは、えー、こう、え、よく考えてほしいんですけども、NASAは、え、去年までは、え、宇宙飛行士がUAPを見たことなんてないと言っていました。で、アポロ11、アポロ12もそうなんですけれども、え、何か、え、不思議なもの、不思議な現象に遭遇したということが、え、あります。で、あと、え、月面から、え、写真を撮ったんですけれども、それ、当時、え、まあ、それはあの、たとえば三角形の形をした乗り物のようなものだったりするんですけども、当時、え、月の周りを周回するものというのは、ほとんどない、ま、ルナ・オービターだけでしたと。衛星のようなものもなかったんです。
(EN) Just a month ago, NASA released a certain photograph—well, a photograph from NASA was disclosed. When you think about it, until last year, NASA claimed that astronauts had never seen a UAP. But during Apollo 11 and Apollo 12, they encountered strange things and strange phenomena. Also, they took photos from the lunar surface, and at the time, for example, there was something like a triangular vehicle, even though back then there was almost nothing orbiting the Moon except for the Lunar Orbiter, and there were no satellites either.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:48:48] There's—there's also photographs that I don't believe have been made public yet, that, uh, show on the lunar surface what appear to be large monolithic structures, uh, with right-angle cuts, that appear to be, um, to be on the lunar surface. And I believe those photographs, if they have not been released yet, may be released soon, um, but they are certainly very intriguing, looking at these objects from space.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:49:17] あの、実は、今回まだ発表されていない写真で、え、大きな、え、1枚岩のようなものが、え、人工的な1枚岩のようなものが、まあ、いわゆるモノリスのようなものが、え、写ってる写真というものがあります。で、そこ、それ、それはたとえばもう完全な直角なので、もう明らかに人工物のように見えるんです。そういうような写真がもしかしたらそろそろ出てくるかもしれません。
(EN) Actually, there is a photo that has not been released yet, showing a large monolith-like structure—an artificial monolith, so to speak. Since it has perfect right angles, it clearly looks artificial. Photos like that might be coming out soon.
[Kou Nanao, 1:49:42] エリゾンドさん、これが... あ、カメラ、これですよね？ で、これ実はですね、今回一番重要な映像だと私は思っています。
(EN) Mr. Elizondo, is this... Oh, this is the camera, right? Actually, I think this is the most important footage this time.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:49:53] Uh, in my view, uh, this is the most important photograph that came out of this, uh, process.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:50:00] ...of disclosure.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 1:50:02] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 1:50:03] そしてこれは私にはですね、UFOというよりもこれについてはですね、三角形は別として、この画像については、僕は、あなたが月面に生命体がいるっていうのと、かなり近い存在じゃないかと予測してるんですが、これについていかがでしょうか。
(EN) And to me, rather than a UFO, setting aside the triangle, I suspect this image is something very close to what you meant by life existing on the Moon. What do you think about this?
[Yasukazu Hamada, 1:50:20] これオーブって言っちゃってもいい。
(EN) Can I call this an orb?
[Kou Nanao, 1:50:22] オーブ、オーブ。
(EN) Orb, orb.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:50:24] So, uh, maybe the triangular shape to be called that you talk about, you talked about is different, but here maybe we see something like orbs, and maybe they are biological beings in some sense.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:50:37] Yeah, very intriguing photograph. There's another photograph, um, that depicts, um, what appears to be a, a, a triangular, um, vehicle. You see three points of light, uh, in each corner.
[Kou Nanao, 1:50:49] Yes. はい。知ってます。
(EN) Yes. Yes, I know.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:50:51] And that is a, a shape that has been reported, uh, and, and we have seen evidence of here in the United States many, many times. Um, and we are now speculating that, um, as far back as the Apollo mission, um, that these UAP were very interested in, in human exploration of the lunar surface.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:51:17] え、それもし非常に、あの、興味深い写真なんです。もう一つの、え、三角形の乗り物の載ってる写真もありますよね。で、それは、あの、その同じような乗り物というのは、まあ、アメリカでも何回も何回も、見られてるもの、です。で、あの、そういう風に考えてみると、まあ、アポロ計画の時にも、え、すでに、NHIは、え、そのようなもので、まあ、月に行ったという、まあ、月にとても関心があったという、ことですね。
(EN) Well, that is also a very, you know, interesting photo. There is also another photo showing a triangular vehicle, right? And that, well, those kinds of similar vehicles have been seen over and over again in America as well. So, thinking about it that way, it means that even during the Apollo program, NHI had already, you know, gone to the Moon in such things—meaning they had a strong interest in the Moon.
[Kou Nanao, 1:51:45] そうですね。
(EN) That's right.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:51:47] On a, on a more humorous note, um, there was a report that was also released at that time, uh, of a senior intelligence official who was sent by helicopter to investigate, um, several UAP sightings. Uh, he was a skeptic, and then, um, while he was in the helicopter for 20 minutes, he and the pilot were pursued by, by these, um, these, these orbs. Uh, and when he finally got back to, uh, his intelligence agency, he was panicked and, uh, was, was insistent that, uh, this experience was absolutely real, and I suspect it may have changed his mind a little.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:52:31] あの、まあ、ちょっと面白い話なんですけれども、え、ある、あの、上位の、え、情報機関員の人が、え、とてもこのUAPについては懐疑的だったんですけれども、彼がヘリコプターで飛んでいた時に、もう20分もオーブに追いかけられたということがあって、彼は彼のあの、職場に戻った、あの、時に、とてもパニックになっていて、で、ああ、このような経験というのは本物だ、っていう風に、あの、強調しました。
(EN) Well, this is a somewhat interesting story, but a certain high-ranking intelligence officer was very skeptical about UAPs, but when he was flying in a helicopter, he was chased by an orb for as long as 20 minutes, and when he returned to his workplace, he was in a panic and emphasized that experiences like this are real.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 1:53:01] なるほど。
(EN) I see.
[Kou Nanao, 1:53:02] あの、一点だけ最後、月面のことについて確認させてほしいんですけど、しつこいんですけど、この写真とですね、デビッド・グラッシュさんが先日の会見でプラズマ生命体の話をしました。プラズマ生命体とあなたが家で見たオーブと、この写真には何らかの関係があるんじゃないでしょうか。グラッシュさんが言ったプラズマ生命体と、エリゾンドさんが家で見たバスケットボール大のオーブと、月面で見てるこうした光、これの共通点については、何か見解ありますか。
(EN) There is just one last point I would like to confirm about the lunar surface—sorry to be persistent—but is there some connection between this photo, and the plasma lifeforms that David Grusch mentioned in his recent press conference? Do you have any insights on the commonalities between the plasma lifeforms Grusch spoke of, the basketball-sized orb that you, Mr. Elizondo, saw at your house, and these kinds of lights seen on the moon?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:53:39] Sorry to bring this, bring this up again. Ah, so David Grusch said that, talked about plasmoids, uh, recently. And you talked about this plasma like beings at home, and now we have this, this picture of, uh, plasma like beings. Do you think they are related?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:54:02] Well, um, if we go back to, to history, um, we can see that there has been discussions in religious circles for potentially centuries, um, trying to describe what might be at some point related to UAP. So, what do I mean? Um, the word, uh, angel, in the English language refers to a, a, a being that is, uh, you know, obviously a supernatural being that, that, is, is, lives in a godly, godly realm. But the word angel actually comes from the Latin word, anhelios. Anhelios means of fire and of light. And so, it is possible that, um, ancient human interactions with non-human intelligence, with these plasmoids, may have been described as, um, religious encounters with, uh, with angels or these beings of, of, of light and fire. Um, of course, I have no way to substantiate that, but it is a theory that has been proposed that, um, perhaps human beings have been influenced to some degree, even religiously, by encounters with, with these diffuse balls of light that seem to be intelligently controlled.
[Kou Nanao, 1:55:28] なるほど。
(EN) I see.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:55:32] まあ、歴史を、さかのぼって考えてみると、やはり、あの、宗教的な人たちはそのようなものを見た、まあ、オーブのようなものを見たという風に、言っています。で、天使という言葉、エンジェルという言葉なんですけれども、え、これはまあ、超自然的な存在って言われてるんですけれども、ラテン語のヘリオスっていうところから、え、来ていて、で、それは、え、光と、え、火というものを意味しています。で、まあ、そのようなものを見たときに、人が、まあ、天使だとかそういう風に言ったんじゃないでしょうかと。まあ、そういう風に考えると、このような、え、知的にコントロールされた光というものが、何か宗教的な影響を人々に与えたということも、考えられるのかも知れません。
(EN) Well, if we look back through history, religious people have indeed said they saw such things—like orbs, if you will. And the word "angel"—which is said to refer to a supernatural being—actually comes from the Latin word Helios, and it means light and fire. So when people saw things like that, perhaps they called them angels. Looking at it this way, it might be possible that these intellectually controlled lights had some kind of religious influence on people.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 1:56:22] なるほど。
(EN) I see.
[Kou Nanao, 1:56:24] 朝川さんどうぞ。
(EN) Go ahead, Mr. Asakawa.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:56:25] はい。あの、私も政治を少しやってきているので、政治の話に少し戻させていただきたいんですけど。イミネントでは、トランプ大統領がUAP問題についてブリーフィングを受けていると記述されてます。しかし、あなたやデビッド・グラッシュ氏が知っているレベルまでは大統領には伝えられていないのではないかという可能性があるのではないでしょうか。仮にすべてが10段階で表すとすれば、トランプ大統領は全体のどのあたりまで把握されているとお考えでしょうか。
(EN) Yes. I have some background in politics, so I would like to bring the conversation back to politics for a moment. In "Imminent", it is written that President Trump was briefed on the UAP issue. However, isn't it possible that the President hasn't been briefed to the level that you or David Grusch know? If we were to represent the entire situation on a scale of 1 to 10, how much of it do you think President Trump understands?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:56:58] So you have indicated that President Trump has been briefed on the UAP issue. But is it possible that he has not been read into the level that you or David Grusch has been to? And if you had to put it on a scale of 1 to 10, how far into the full picture do you think President Trump actually is?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:57:13] Yes.
[Luis Elizondo, 1:57:22] Well, I'm confident he has not been briefed to the level that my colleagues and I, um, were involved with. But I don't think it's necessarily deliberate. I, I think any president of any nation is extremely busy. They have multiple national priorities that they have to balance, and they do not have the luxury of committing time nor energy to a single topic. However, I am aware that the president was indeed briefed to, to, to a level necessary enough for him to start, um, directing organizations and agencies to, to be more forthcoming with the American people. I, I am confident he is very well aware of the reality of this topic.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:58:11] え、まあ、私はデビッド・グラッシュさんのように、のようなところまで情報がいってるとは正直思いません。でも、それはまあ、必ずしも何か隠そうとしているということではなくて、大統領というのはとても忙しくて色んなことをしなければならないのです。え、でも、これだけは確実です。彼は、え、情報開示を指示するぐらいに、え、あの、政府機関にもっと情報を出せというようなことを指示するぐらいの、情報というものはすでに持っているんです。え、トランプ大統領はこの現実について、え、知っているでしょう。
(EN) Well, to be honest, I don't think the information has reached him to the level of someone like David Grusch. However, that isn't necessarily because they are trying to hide something; presidents are just extremely busy and have to handle many different things. But this much is certain: he already has enough information to order disclosure, or to order government agencies to release more information. President Trump surely knows about this reality.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 1:58:50] あの、映像公開することともう一歩踏み込むこと、つまり情報全開するってことは別の話だと思うんですね。仮にアメリカが地球外生命の存在を公式に認めるとすれば、経済エネルギー政策への影響は避けられないと思います。つまりそうした発表を管理するためには、ホワイトハウスには入念に準備された体制が必要だと思います。ところが我々日本から見ていると、そのような体制が築かれているようには思えません。この点はエリゾンドさんはどのようにお考えですか。
(EN) I think releasing footage and taking it a step further—meaning full disclosure of information—are two different things. If the U.S. were to officially acknowledge the existence of extraterrestrial life, I think the impact on economic and energy policies would be unavoidable. In other words, to manage such an announcement, I believe the White House would need a carefully prepared system in place. However, looking at it from Japan, it doesn't seem like such a system has been built. What are your thoughts on this point, Mr. Elizondo?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 1:59:23] So releasing footage is one thing. But if the United States were so formal, were to formally acknowledge the existence of extraterrestrial life or NHI, the impact on the economy and on energy policy would be unavoidable, which means the White House would need a carefully prepared framework to manage such an announcement. Uh, from where we sit in Japan, it doesn't look like that kind of structure is being built. How do you see it?
[Luis Elizondo, 1:59:54] Well, I, I respectfully, uh, will differ slightly on that...
[Luis Elizondo, 2:00:00] perspective. I I believe that the administration um is is taking um a very measured approach. I think it's very prudent because what what the President has said for the record uh he said "I'm releasing the files uh and I want the American people to decide for themselves what this this means to them, and more importantly, I hope they make the right decision." So, the President, without causing uh any type of disruption to the markets or anything like that, um has so far executed this this disclosure, I think, in a very thoughtful way. It may not be the way that most people want or expect or anticipate, but let's face the facts that right now, nobody has uh this has not destabilized any markets, it has not challenged any real religions, uh people are still going about their daily business, paying their taxes, and paying their bills, and taking care of their children. Um, I also have faith in in the new generation of young people. Um, they seem to be much more accepting of new realities than my generation, the older generation. A lot of the fears we had uh for decades on this topic destabilizing potentially countries and geopolitics, turned out not to be accurate. And so, uh I do think that the measured approach is is important. Um, if you notice the way this information started coming out, it started coming out very slowly uh and very generically, and over time, it's become more and more increasingly specific with greater and greater fidelity of information being provided.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:01:57] そうすると、このことについてはちょっと私は別の考えがあります。えー、この、えー、トランプ政権というのはとても良い、えー、うまいことやってると思います。賢明です。で、大統領はアメリカ人、アメリカ人自身に決めてほしい、えー、考えてほしいという風に言っています。で、彼の今までの開示の努力というもの、取り組みはまだ、えー、マーケットについてもそうですし、えー、市場についてもそうですし、宗教についてもそうですし、日常生活にも大きな影響を与えていません。で、私は、あの、若い人たちにはとても希望があると思ってます。彼らは新しい現実を受け止めることができると、えー、用意があると持っています。で、まあ昔はこういうことが、あの、情報が完全に開示されてしまったら、何か大きな、えー、不安的な要素が、ことが起きるんじゃないか、社会が不安定になるんじゃないかという風に言われていたんですけれども、えー、彼らは大丈夫かもしれません。よく考えてください。この開示というのは今実は起こっていて、でもとてもゆっくりと、とても一般的なところから始まって、どんどん具体的で、そして信頼性の高い情報に移っていってるんです。
(EN) On that point, I have a somewhat different view. I think the Trump administration is doing a very good job, handling it wisely. The President has said that he wants the American people to decide and think for themselves. And his disclosure efforts and initiatives so far have not yet had a major impact on the markets, on religion, or on daily life. Furthermore, I have a lot of hope for young people. I believe they are ready and able to accept this new reality. In the past, it was said that if this information were fully disclosed, it would cause major instability or disrupt society, but they might be just fine. Think about it carefully. This disclosure is actually happening right now, but very slowly, starting with very general information and moving toward increasingly specific and highly credible details.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:03:21] あの、まさに私、エリゾンドさんとまったく同じ考えで、まさに、情報開示が始まった発端、エリゾンドさんの動き、メロンさんの動きから、ここまで来てる、あるいは日本で私がUFO議連を作り始めた、あるいはフランスでもそうだったとか、世界で動きが始まってるということは、徐々に、徐々に情報が開示されてきてるということだと思うんですね。で、これは何か仕組まれてるっていうか分からないんですけど、何らかの動きというのが背景にあるのかなっていう風に私は思っているところなんです。で、この先で、もし大統領がこのまま、あの、トランプ大統領が進めていく、あるいは世界が足ないみを徐々に揃えていくとした時に、中国との関係で、何らかの調整が必要ではないかと。まあロシアもそうかもしれませんけど。その中で、スティーブ・ミラー氏と連絡を取り合ってるという風に私は理解してるんですけど、エリゾンドさんが。彼はこの点について何か考えてらっしゃいますか？
(EN) I completely agree with you, Mr. Elizondo. The trigger for the start of this disclosure, starting from your actions and Mr. Mellon's actions, has brought us to this point. Also, the fact that I started the UFO caucus in Japan, and similar things happened in France, and movements are starting worldwide, shows that information is being disclosed step by step. I don't know if this is coordinated or not, but I feel there is some kind of movement in the background. Moving forward, if President Trump continues this way, or if the world gradually aligns its steps, won't some coordination be necessary in relation to China, and perhaps Russia as well? In that context, I understand that you, Mr. Elizondo, are in contact with Mr. Stephen Miller. Does he have any thoughts on this matter?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:04:23] So, I agree with what you've said completely. And I think, I believe that the movement that happened, that started with you and also Christopher Mellon and so on, and also the movement that has has been happening in Japan or France, uh we can say confidently that there has been gradual release of information. And maybe there is some uh one who's controlling or behind it. Uh but I want to ask you about Stephen Miller, or um that uh I'm, I've heard that you are acquainted with Stephen Miller, and uh maybe in connection with China, maybe you could say something about this because I believe that China uh may be able to or should be able to or should play a big role in this, too.
[Luis Elizondo, 2:05:22] Yes, correct. Um, we are aware of of many nations establishing their own UAP investigative programs. China is certainly no exception. Um, we know for a fact that China has been experiencing a high volume of UAP activity just like the United States, just like Russia, just like other nations including Japan. Um, and in fact, if you look through history, there have been moments in time where adversarial nations have actually worked very well together in certain specific capacities. Um, as an example, when it comes to the uh North Pole and the polar ice caps, the United States and Russia work very well together. Um, there's this presumption that the United States and Russia we we never agree, but the reality is we do agree on a lot of things. And we will work together in a lot of things, and the same thing with China and other nations that, geopolitically, we may be adversaries, but in reality, we share a lot in common. And I think this is vital. I think this topic, if we if we if we take our time and we look at this topic for what it really means to humanity, then we have no choice but to work with each other in a cooperative manner.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:06:45] えー、まあ確かに、えー、たくさんの国がUAPについてそう、調査しています。中国もまあそうですけど、えー、ロシアも日本もたくさんのUAPに見舞われています。で、えー、敵国同士、まあ、て、いわゆる敵対している国同士が、でも、えー、一緒に協同したということも歴史ではあるではありませんかと。例えば北極、北極冠の話もそう、そうです、アメリカと、えー、ロシアは一緒に、えー、協力できましたと。えー、実は敵対している国でも、まあそれは地政学的にはそうかもしれないんですけれども、地政学的には敵対していてもたくさんのことで、えー、協同できるんです。お互いに合意することができるんです。で、まあこの件に関しては、実は私たちに、えー、選択はありません。み、私たちは一緒にともに協同しなければならないのです。
(EN) Yes, indeed, many countries are investigating UAPs. That includes China, of course, and Russia and Japan have also experienced many UAPs. But hasn't history shown that even hostile nations, or countries that are adversaries, have cooperated with each other? For example, with the Arctic and the polar ice caps, the United States and Russia were able to cooperate. Even countries that are adversaries—which might be true geopolitically—can still cooperate and reach agreements on many things. And regarding this matter, we actually have no choice. We must cooperate and work together.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:07:43] あの、バチカンとの関係が一番実は最も大事なのかなという風に個人的には思ってますけど、その点はいかがですか？
(EN) Personally, I think the relationship with the Vatican might actually be the most important. What are your thoughts on that?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:07:52] I personally think that the involvement, involvement of Vatican in this is very important. Do you have any comment on this?
[Luis Elizondo, 2:08:01] You're absolutely correct. Um, vitally important in fact. I will be traveling to Italy uh in a couple months uh in Lucca, and uh we have been asked to to have a conversation with some representatives in the Vatican. Um, I, every time I go to to Italy, um I have the honor and privilege to speak with officials in the uh in the Vatican, and I think um I think you're absolutely correct, I think the conversation is now um growing much much bigger, and it's not just the Vatican, it's it's the Church of England, it's also here in the United States. Um, there's a lot of uh members of faiths that are now coming to the table and want to be part of the conversation.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:08:50] えー、本当にそうだと思ってます。と、まあ数ヶ月のうちに、えー、イタリアのルッカに行くことになってます。で、そこでは私は、えー、バチカンの代表と会うことになってと、対話することになってます。で、私はイタリアに行くたびにバチカンの、えー、政府の、えー、高官と会っています。でもそれはバチカンだけじゃありません。いろんな宗教者がそうです。例えば、えー、イギリス国教会、聖公会もそうですし、えー、アメリカでもそうです。
(EN) Yes, I truly believe so. In fact, in a few months, I will be going to Lucca, Italy. While there, I will meet and have a dialogue with representatives from the Vatican. Every time I go to Italy, I meet with high-ranking officials of the Vatican government. But it's not just the Vatican. It's the same with various religious leaders. For example, the Church of England (the Anglican Church) as well, and also in the US.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:09:22] あの、まさに私もそれ、お招きいただいてそこでエリゾンドさんとお会いできると思うんですけども、あまり詳しいそこまでの情報私は得ていなかったんですが、日本の宗教界の実は方たちとも私は個人的にお話をしているところです。まだ公にはしていないんですけれども、あの、秋にお会いできる時にですね、より深いお話ができるんじゃないかと思って期待しております。
(EN) Yes, I have actually been invited to that as well, so I think I will be able to meet you there, Mr. Elizondo. I hadn't received such detailed information about it yet, but I have also been personally speaking with figures in the Japanese religious community. We haven't made it public yet, but I am looking forward to having a deeper conversation when we meet in the autumn.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:09:50] And, uh, I'm also invited to this event in Lucca. And I, I didn't know that you'd be meeting with the Vatican representatives. And I'm also communicating with the Japanese religious people. It's not public yet, but I'm looking forward to talk deeper about this when we meet in Autumn.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:10:00] Well, I actually have been also in talks with some religious leaders in Japan. So, I'm very much excited to talk with you about this topic in autumn.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:10:11] それ菊池さんも一緒ですと。
(EN) And that includes Mr. Kikuchi too.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:10:13] And I'm coming along too.
[Luis Elizondo, 2:10:16] Yes, and in fact, we may be having some members of our Congress attending as well, specifically, Yoshi, because of your participation. We have a representative, Eric Burlison, our member of Congress, who has been spearheading much of this effort along with several of his colleagues, who also speaks Japanese and has indicated to me personally, he has an interest in meeting with you.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:10:44] 実はあの、アメリカの議会からも、まあ、誰か来るかもしれません。特にバーリソン議員なんですけれども、バーリソン議員はまあ、あなたが行くなら行こうかなという風に言ってます。えー、で、彼はもう、あの朝川さんに会いたいという風に言ってます。ちなみに彼は日本語もできます。
(EN) Actually, someone from the U.S. Congress might come as well. Specifically Representative Burlison; he said, "If you're going, maybe I'll go too." And he also said he really wants to meet Mr. Asakawa. By the way, he can speak Japanese too.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:11:03] 以前、あの、出ていただいてます。
(EN) He has appeared on our show before.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:11:05] Yes, we invited him also to this show and we interviewed him, and he spoke in Japanese.
[Luis Elizondo, 2:11:11] Really? Yeah. I can't comment how good or bad his Japanese is, but I know he was very much looking forward, and he's looking forward to speaking with you again.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:11:23] まあ、あの、どのぐらい日本語できたかわかんないんですけれども、でもあの、確かなのは朝川さんと会うのとても楽しみにしてます。
(EN) Well, I don't know how well he can speak Japanese, but what is certain is that he is really looking forward to meeting Mr. Asakawa.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:11:29] ありがとうございます。
(EN) Thank you.
[Kou Nanao, 2:11:31] エリゾンドさん、あなたのこの本、えー、チェーンズ・オブ・ザ・シー、えー、以前ある番組であなたはガードナー・ドゾワのSF小説、えー、チェーン・オブ・ザ・シーを読むことを勧めていらっしゃいました。で、私たち実際読みました。非常にこれ、今までのエリゾンドさんのお話ししたこととすごく共通するし、私の個人的な考えとも相当マッチする内容なんですが。その、今アメリカの議会でですね、国民には知る権利があると。で、さらには政府がこれを秘匿するのは憲法違反だという声もあります。ただ、知らぬが仏、知るは地獄かって言葉もあると思います。つまり、すべて公開することがもしかしたら国民にとっては必ずしも幸せじゃないかもしれない、しれないと。あなたはこれ、どちらが優先されるべきだと思いますか？
(EN) Mr. Elizondo, regarding your book, or rather, "Chains of the Sea"—in a previous program, you recommended reading Gardner Dozois's science fiction novella, "Chains of the Sea". We actually read it. The content has a lot in common with what you have discussed so far, and it aligns closely with my personal views. Now, in the U.S. Congress, there are voices saying that the public has a right to know, and further, that the government concealing this is unconstitutional. However, there is also the saying, "Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is hell." In other words, perhaps disclosing everything is not necessarily in the best interest of the public's happiness. Which do you think should be prioritized?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:12:35] どちらかというのは、何と何が？
(EN) Prioritized between which two things?
[Kou Nanao, 2:12:38] 要するに情報公開が先か、それとも国民のその、幸福というか、知らないことによる安心感を優先すべきだと思うかってことです。
(EN) In short, whether disclosure of information should come first, or whether we should prioritize the public's happiness—meaning the peace of mind that comes from not knowing.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:12:48] So, we have read this book, Chains of the Sea, oh actually, this is an anthology which contains the story, and which you mentioned and recommended to people. And we had, we thought that this story was great. There's a lot of thing, elements that we agreed to, we could agree on. Now, the American public has the right to know. And some people also say that it's unconstitutional that this information is hidden from the public. But now, I would like to ask you, there is a word like ignorance is bliss, or knowledge is hell, that's the expression we use here too. Which do you think comes first? I mean, there's, on the one hand, disclosure and truth, but on the other hand, maybe there's this safety or being comfortable in not knowing the truth. Which one do you think is important or what is your priority?
[Luis Elizondo, 2:13:58] Well, I think the truth is never bad. Information, knowledge, is what it is. It's the application of that knowledge that can be good or bad. But information, knowledge in itself, truth in itself, is never bad. It is how we use that information which, again, can be either good or bad. I believe that for me, truth is inherent with any democracy. If you want true freedom, truth has to be a fundamental pillar of that. Otherwise, you have tyranny. And my involvement in the US government and in the military, I've seen tyranny up close and personal. And so, I believe that America, I believe the world, can handle the truth. I believe it deserves the truth, no matter what the consequences are. And you're right, there are people that will go to the doctor and don't want to know that they have cancer. But you don't have a chance of curing the cancer unless you know you have it. So, I believe it's important that we are always honest with our citizens. I think it's imperative to any democracy to always be honest with its people.
[Kou Nanao, 2:15:18] 例えば、あ、ごめんなさい。
(EN) For example—oh, sorry.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:15:20] 真実というのは、まあ、悪いことは絶対にありませんと。情報とか知識というのは、情報や知識なんです。実際には、知識自体が良い悪いじゃないんです。それをどう使うか、なんですと。で、特に民主主義にとって、真実というのは本質的なものです。民主主義の柱なんです。真実がなければ、それは、えー、専制になってしまいます。で、私はエージェントとして、専制的な政府というところを見たことありますけれども、えー、やはり民主主義、私たちは民主主義の国家なので、必ず真実というものを中心に据えなければ、なりません。例えばがんになったら、がんで、自分ががんであると知らなければ治療を受けられないですよね。だから真実というのは、少なくとも民主主義国家にとっては、えー、選ばれるべきものなんです。
(EN) There is absolutely nothing bad about the truth. Information and knowledge are just information and knowledge. In reality, knowledge itself is neither good nor bad; it is about how we use it. And for a democracy in particular, the truth is essential. It is a pillar of democracy. Without the truth, it becomes tyranny. Having seen tyrannical governments during my time as an agent, I believe that because we are democratic nations, we must always place the truth at the center. For example, if you get cancer, you cannot receive treatment unless you know you have cancer. Therefore, truth is something that must be chosen, at least for democratic nations.
[Kou Nanao, 2:16:21] はい、最後の質問ですって言ってください。
(EN) Please say, "Yes, this is the last question."
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:16:24] あの、最後の質問なんですけれど。
(EN) Well, this is the last question.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:16:27] So, this is my last question.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:16:28] 私、あの、想定外を想定することが政治家の責任だと言ってきました。で、先ほどの浜田会長は、わからないものはわからないままにしてちゃダメだと、同じことを言われてます。真実についても同じ考えだと思います。で、あの、まあ、色々政治的にはあるんですけれど、色んな方が私のところにも接触を図られて来られるんですけれど、中には情報を取るため、あるいはどこかの国の組織の人間かもしれないと思われるような方も中にはいるんですけれど、エリゾンドさん専門家として、そういうスパイみたいな方と、そうじゃない方を見分けるような、基準というか、目というのはあるんでしょうか。教えていただくことできますでしょうか。
(EN) I have always said that it is a politician's responsibility to anticipate the unexpected. And Chairman Hamada just said the same thing—that we shouldn't leave what we don't understand unresolved. I believe the same applies to the truth. Now, politically speaking, various people approach me, and some of them seem to be trying to gather information or might even be members of a foreign intelligence organization. As an expert, Mr. Elizondo, do you have any criteria or an eye for distinguishing between spy-like individuals and those who are not? Could you share that with us?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:17:15] So, my slogan as a politician is expect the unexpected. And Mr. Hamada also says unknown should not be left unknown. And now, I have a question. There are many people who come to me, and sometimes I wonder if they are some kind of secret agents. How can one find out if someone is a covert agent?
[Luis Elizondo, 2:17:41] Well, let me submit this to you. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if they are or they are not a covert agent. What matters is that we have free agency. We have free, we have the free ability to make the decisions for ourselves of what information is important to us and what it means to us. Not all secret agents are necessarily bad. There are some secret agents that do a lot of good things for their country and want to do good things for their people. So, we have to be just like politicians, right? There are good politicians, and then there are some that are not so good. I think what matters is that we are, as a people, able to have a conversation free of stigma. Stigma is something that artificially suppresses thought and expression. So, we must be, to be a free people, we have to be able to have a conversation and exchange thoughts mutually among ourselves, freely, without fear of reprisal, without fear of retribution, and without fear of stigma. I believe, ultimately, that it is incumbent upon every politician, every world leader, and every official to always be truthful and transparent with their people. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to agree all the time with everybody, but we still are morally obligated to be honest with one another, especially on a topic that affects everybody, whether it is, whether it's climate change, or it is the topic of world hunger, or the topic of nuclear proliferation, or the topic of UAP. I think we are morally obligated to always try to have a conversation with one another. And ultimately, it is truth that shall set you free. I believe that we must avoid the stigma, and avoid the handcuffing ourselves, simply because we find a conversation uncomfortable.
[Kou Nanao, 2:20:00] ありがとうございました。エリゾンドさん、お時間になりました、あ、ごめんなさい。
(EN) Thank you very much. Mr. Elizondo, our time is up—oh, I'm sorry.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 2:20:05] はい。えー、こうに考えてみてください。えー、エージェントであるかどうかというのは、そんな大したことじゃないんです。その人、エージェントでも、いい人もいるし悪い人もいます。大切なのは、自分の意志なんです。自由意志なんです。この自由意志を使って、まあ政治家の人たちもそうですけど、いい人も悪い人もいます。でも、この自由意志を使ってお互いに話すことが大切です。えー、でも、大切なのは、そのような話、えー、会話というのがきちんとなされることです。そこにスティグマのようなものが、えー、現れてくると、えー、私たちは、えー、自由な考えや思想や自由な表現というのを抑圧することになります。えー、何か仕返しあるいは罰、あるいはスティグマを受けないで、受けないできちんと自分たちが思ったことを話せるということが、えー、どんな人にも大切な、えー、ことなんです。で、私たちは、これだけ言えることなんですけれども、道徳的に、えー、お互いに対して、えー、正直であるという義務があるんです。で、それは、えー、気候変動でもそうですし、飢餓の問題でもそうですし、核不拡散でもそうですし、UAPについてもそうなんです。真実は私たちを自由にするんです。
(EN) Yes. Look at it this way: whether someone is an agent or not isn't that big of a deal. Even if someone is an agent, there are good agents and bad agents. What matters is one's own will—free will. Using this free will, there are good and bad people, including politicians. But it is important to talk to each other using this free will. However, the crucial thing is that such conversations are held properly. If stigma begins to surround them, we end up suppressing free thought, ideas, and free expression. Being able to speak our minds properly without facing retaliation, punishment, or stigma is something important for everyone. All I can say is that we have a moral obligation to be honest with one another. That applies to climate change, hunger, nuclear non-proliferation, and it applies to UAPs as well. The truth will set us free.
[Kou Nanao, 2:21:24] なるほど。お時間となりましたが、最後に、あの、エリゾンドさん、噂されてますが、ホワイトハウスから要請があれば、情報開示の、また再び最前線に立つ覚悟はあるんでしょうか。そして、最後に日本のユーザーに向けて一言、ご挨拶をお願いします。この２点お願いします。
(EN) I see. Our time is up, but finally, Mr. Elizondo, there are rumors: if requested by the White House, are you prepared to stand on the front lines of information disclosure once again? Also, could you give a final greeting to our Japanese viewers? Please address these two points.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:21:41] So, this is my last question. Uh, if White House asks you to be in charge of this disclosure effort in the next administration, would you be willing to take this opportunity? And the last question, or last request, please also give a message to our audience and viewers.
[Luis Elizondo, 2:22:04] Okay. Um, yes, if my country asks me to to to continue to serve, I will certainly do so. I have done so in the past, and I will continue to do so, um, simply because of my loyalty to the American people. I would also ensure that on a monthly basis, um, I have open dialogue with the American people about what we have learned and what are some of the challenges we still have, and have open dialogue with the public, and, and frankly, the international community as well. Um, as far as my recommendation to to your audience, I would say, be be brave and courageous in your pursuit of the truth. Never be afraid of the truth. Um, truth is is is an inherent uh right of every human being on this planet. And I mean every human being on this planet. Um, so have have the the moral courage and moral fortitude to to be willing to ask the hard questions. Ask the hard questions to your teachers, ask the hard questions to your parents, ask the hard questions to your politicians, and anybody else um that you you're seeking answers from. Um, this is the truth is the inevitable journey of all humans. It is part of our species. Exploring the unknown is in our DNA. It is why we sail over the horizon. It is why we we we take spacecraft to the moon. Um, and I think that is ultimately the spirit of humanity, and I I would encourage all your listeners to to continue doing so. Um, I've had the honor and privilege to work with Japan and and and the Japanese people in the past, and it's been one of the greatest honors of my life. Uh, and I'm always learning something new, new perspectives, new understandings. So, um, that would be my advice.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 2:24:07] えー、勇気を持ってください。勇気を持って真実を追い求めてください。真実を怖がらないでください。えー、真実というものは、すべての人間、この地球上にいるすべての人間の権利なのです。ぜひ、えー、道徳的な勇気を持ってください。えー、そして、難しい質問を先生、教師や親や政治家にしてください。えー、真実というものは、人間の、えー、運命なのです。人間の旅路の、えー、ゴールなのです。で、真実というのは私たちのDNAの中にあるんです。私たちはそれで、えー、海に、海に出ていたり、月にまで行ったりもします。えー、私たちの、えー、視聴、今の視聴者に言いたいことは、これを続けてください。で、私は、あの、日本の人たちと一緒に、えー、共に働いたことがあるんですけれども、とても光栄で素晴らしいことでした。私たちは、お互いから学ぶことができると思います。私は日本人から多くのことを学んでいます。
(EN) Have courage. Pursue the truth with courage. Do not be afraid of the truth. The truth is a right for all human beings, for everyone on this planet. Please have moral courage. And ask difficult questions to your teachers, parents, and politicians. The truth is human destiny. It is the goal of the human journey. The truth is in our DNA. It is what drives us to go out to sea, and even to the Moon. What I want to say to our viewers now is, please keep doing this. I have worked with the Japanese people before, and it was a great honor and a wonderful experience. I believe we can learn from one another. I have learned a lot from the Japanese people.
[Kou Nanao, 2:25:16] ありがとうございました。本日はお忙しい中本当にありがとうございました。
(EN) Thank you very much. Thank you so much for taking the time today out of your busy schedule.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:25:19] ありがとうございました。
(EN) Thank you very much.
[Kou Nanao, 2:25:20] ね。また、はい、また機会がありましたら、ぜひエリゾンドさん、またお話を聞かせてください。よろしくおねがいします。
(EN) Yes. If there is another opportunity, Mr. Elizondo, please let us hear from you again. Thank you very much.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:25:28] Thank you very much for your time. And we'd love to have you here again and have, uh, and continue our conversations.
[Luis Elizondo, 2:25:38] It is my sincere and humble honor to be with you here today, um, with you esteemed men and also your your incredible audience. Um, thank you for what you are doing. Thank you for what you're doing on behalf of all of us to include American people and the world. Um, history will remember you kindly.
[Yasukazu Hamada, 2:26:01] えー、本当に私にとってもとても光栄なことでした。で、それはまあ、あの、みなさまに会えたのもそうですし、えー、視聴者の方々に会えたのも、えー、そうです。えー、歴史はあなたたちにとって、えー、あなたたちを記憶にとどめるでしょう。
(EN) It was truly a great honor for me as well. That goes for meeting all of you, and also for meeting the viewers. History will remember you.
[Kou Nanao, 2:26:18] はい、ありがとうございました。
(EN) Yes, thank you very much.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:26:19] ありがとうございました。
(EN) Thank you very much.
[Kou Nanao, 2:26:20] 失礼します。ありがとうございました。
(EN) Goodbye. Thank you very much.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:26:23] Thank you very much.
[Kou Nanao, 2:26:31] いかがだったでしょうか。
(EN) What did you think?
[Kou Nanao, 2:26:36] リョウさんちょっとお水でも飲んでください。
(EN) Ryo, please have some water.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:26:38] はい。
(EN) Sure.
[Kou Nanao, 2:26:39] 朝川さんどうだったですか？
(EN) Mr. Asakawa, how was it?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:26:40] いや、なかなかちょっと...
(EN) Well, it was really quite...
[Kou Nanao, 2:26:43] ちょっと涙が出てくるような感じの...
(EN) It almost brought tears to my eyes...
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:26:49] うん。
(EN) Yeah.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:26:51] 英語ができればよかったなと思います。
(EN) I wish I could speak English.
[Kou Nanao, 2:26:57] でも今日はですね、実は、あの、同時にうちのスタッフがですね、同時通訳、エリゾンドさんの言葉を、テキストで、日本語テキストで表示するやつもあって、さらにリョウさんの通訳もあって、非常に分かりやすかったですね。だから僕らが頷いていたのは、リアルタイムで翻訳されてたから分かってたからで、フリではございません。はい。
(EN) But today, actually, our staff was displaying a simultaneous interpretation of Mr. Elizondo's words in Japanese text, and with Ryo's translation as well, it was very easy to understand. So, the reason we were nodding was because we understood it through the real-time translation, not because we were pretending. Yes.
[Kou Nanao, 2:27:23] じゃあリョウさんから行きましょうか。どうですか？ぶっちゃけ。
(EN) Shall we start with Ryo? What did you think, honestly?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:27:27] いや、あの、まあ、いろいろ面白い、新たな事実も出てきたと思うんですけど、例えば福島の話、彼が個人的に知って、あの、関わっていたりですとか、あの、月の話なんかもそうですけど、でもやっぱり最後のお話が、あの、とても感動しましたね。やっぱり彼、エリゾンドさんという人物に、とても強い感銘を受けました。そして勇気づけられました。
(EN) Well, while I think various interesting new facts came to light—such as the story about Fukushima, which he was personally aware of and involved in, and the story about the Moon—the last part of his talk was really moving. I was very deeply impressed and encouraged by the person he is, by Mr. Elizondo.
[Kou Nanao, 2:27:51] そしてかなり、その、なんの、あの、誤解を受けると、あの、宗教的なというか、崇高ななにか意識がものすごいある方ですね。まさかバチカンと定期的に話してるって思ってなかったんですけど。
(EN) And he is someone with a very strong, how should I put it without being misunderstood, religious or rather noble sense of consciousness. I never expected that he talks to the Vatican on a regular basis.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:28:02] 確かただ、ヒストリーチャンネルの中でも、あれイタリア軍でしたっけ？
(EN) If I recall, even on the History Channel, wasn't that the Italian military?
[Kou Nanao, 2:28:12] あ、ありましたね。ありましたね。
(EN) Oh, right. Yes, there was that.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:28:14] 確かイタリア軍と、いろいろやり取りするシーンがあったと思うんですね。ええ。それで、その、その中で確か戦前の話もあったし、確かバチカンに何か触れてることがあったかなと思うんですけど。
(EN) I believe there was a scene where they interacted with the Italian military. Yes. And in that, I think they also talked about the pre-war era, and they might have touched upon the Vatican as well.
[Kou Nanao, 2:28:24] いや、ともかくマスメディアで伝えられてるエリゾンド像と全く違いましたね。
(EN) Anyway, he was completely different from the image of Elizondo portrayed in the mass media.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:28:29] そうですね。
(EN) Indeed.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:28:31] そうですね。あの、NHIについての考え方もとても哲学的で、まあこれは非常に哲学的に探求すべき事柄なのかなっていう風に、あの、もう一度思いました。
(EN) Yes. His perspective on NHI was also very philosophical, and it made me think once again that this is something that should be explored very philosophically.
[Kou Nanao, 2:28:43] あ、本当ありがとうございました。朝川さんは？
(EN) Thank you so much. What about you, Mr. Asakawa?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:28:49] いや、あれ、ま、今何月ってエリゾンドさん言わなかったですけど、秋に、そのイタリアの、えー、
(EN) Well, Elizondo didn't mention what month it is now, but in the autumn, in Italy, um...
[Kou Nanao, 2:28:53] あ、いいなぁ。僕は行かないんですけどね。
(EN) Oh, that's nice. I'm not going, though.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:28:54] あ、リョウさんも一緒に行くんですかね。
(EN) Ah, is Ryo going with you as well?
[Kou Nanao, 2:28:55] いいなぁ。僕は行かないんですけどね、別に招待されてないし。
(EN) Lucky you. I'm not going, though—it's not like I was invited.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:28:59] あの、ま、どうして私なのかっていうのもちょっとあったんですけど、それ、しかも向こうでどういう話をするのかっていうのもわかんないんですけど、とにかく...
(EN) Well, I was wondering a bit why it had to be me, and I don't even know what we'll be talking about over there, but anyway...
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:06] イタリアで、いわゆる会議があるんですよね。UFOに関する。
(EN) There's a conference in Italy, right? Regarding UFOs.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:29:08] そうですよね。あの、UFOシンポジウム。で、いろんな国からも国際でっていうことで。
(EN) Right, the UFO symposium. It's an international event with people from various countries.
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:12] はい。
(EN) Yes.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:29:13] で、最初、えっ？と思ってたんですけど、まあそれでエリゾンドさんも来られるっていうのがわかって、えっ？と思ってたんですけどね。
(EN) So, at first I was surprised, and then when I found out Elizondo was also coming, I was really surprised.
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:17] そういうことで。
(EN) I see.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:29:18] それがまあ、バチカンとの関係もこれまでもあったし、その日もっていうことで言うと、もう非常に意義深いなと。
(EN) Given the connection with the Vatican up until now, and that it's on that day, I think it's extremely meaningful.
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:27] ねえ、すごい。
(EN) Yeah, that's amazing.
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:28] 今日はですね、多分ですね、私はあのエリゾンド推しでいろいろ情報を得ていたんですが、ほとんどが知らなかった情報でしたね。リョウさんもそうでしょ？
(EN) Today, even though I've been following Elizondo closely and gathering information, most of it was stuff I didn't know. The same goes for you, Ryo, right?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:29:37] いや、本当新しい情報がたくさん出てきて、
(EN) Yeah, a lot of new information came out,
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:38] バンバン出てきましたね。
(EN) It kept coming out one after another, didn't it?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:29:40] はい、あの、アメリカのオーディエンスも楽しかったと思います。
(EN) Yes, I think the American audience enjoyed it as well.
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:42] いや、そう、信じたいです。
(EN) Yeah, I'd like to believe so.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:29:45] 最後聞きたい、今聞きたい、ちょっと考えたいのは、これから出てくる情報っていうの、エリゾンドさん分かってたじゃないですか、月の...
(EN) The last thing I want to ask, or rather think about right now, is that Elizondo seemed to know what information is coming out next, like the Moon's...
[Kou Nanao, 2:29:53] そう、あの、裏側の、中から、近い内にでるって言われてましたよね。
(EN) Yes, he mentioned that something from the far side, or inside, would be coming out soon, right?
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:29:56] かもしれないみたいな話。
(EN) Something like that might happen.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:29:58] っていうことは、やっぱり...
(EN) Which means, as expected...
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:30:00] やっぱり、今出てくる、開示されてる情報に、エリゾンドさんも関係してるのかなって。
(EN) After all, I wonder if Elizondo is also involved in the information that is being disclosed now.
[Kou Nanao, 2:30:05] いや、クリストファー・メロンさんだって。
(EN) Actually, Christopher Mellon is too.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:30:06] メロンさんももちろん、ええ。
(EN) Mellon too, of course, yes.
[Kou Nanao, 2:30:08] まあ、幸い我々は、その二人とは、ええ、かなり親しくさせていただいてるんで。またぜひ、イタリア行かれた時、エリゾンドさんとお話して、また色々教えてください。
(EN) Well, fortunately, we are quite close with both of them. So when you go to Italy, please talk to Elizondo and let us know what you find out.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:30:19] なんかニコ生で、クルーが一緒に行くのじゃないですか？
(EN) Isn't the crew going with you for a Nico Nico Live broadcast?
[Kou Nanao, 2:30:22] あ、無理だと。
(EN) Oh, that's impossible.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:30:23] あ、無理ですか。
(EN) Ah, it's not possible?
[Kou Nanao, 2:30:24] 無理です。
(EN) It's not.
[Ryo Kikuchi, 2:30:24] はい、わかりました。
(EN) Okay, I see.
[Kou Nanao, 2:30:25] はい。えー、本日は、あの、この辺で失礼します。あの、非常にですね、あの、本当に哲学的な深いお話で、ちょっとびっくりしました。それで実際ですね、質問1025問もあったんですが、まあ、大体、でき、できなかったけど、でも、聞きたかったことはなんかね、多分ご本人も、全部いろいろ考えてくださってたと思うんですけど、大体お聞きできたと思います。はい、それでは本日はこの辺で失礼します。
(EN) Alright, that's all for today. I was actually quite surprised by how deep and philosophical the conversation was. We had 1,025 questions, and although we couldn't go through all of them, I think we managed to ask most of what we wanted to hear, and he probably had thought about all of those things beforehand. Well, we will wrap up here for today.
[Kou Nanao, 2:30:52] そして近々UFO議連も。
(EN) And soon, the UFO caucus will meet too.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:30:54] そうなんです。あの、近々、あの、UFO議連の第5回総会。ま、昨日、浜田会長、遠藤副会長、えー、三ツ林事務局長ともお話しして、
(EN) That's right. The 5th general meeting of the UFO caucus is coming up soon. Yesterday, I spoke with Chairman Hamada, Vice Chairman Endo, and Secretary-General Mitsubayashi,
[Kou Nanao, 2:31:03] 中継やるんですよね。
(EN) And you're going to broadcast it, right?
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:31:04] ま、あの、明日、議連のメンバーの皆さんにお配りするということで、えー、それもニコニコでも。
(EN) Yes, it will be distributed to the caucus members tomorrow, and we will also broadcast it on Nico Nico.
[Kou Nanao, 2:31:11] はい、中継決定しました。内部的にも、はい。
(EN) Yes, the broadcast has been officially decided internally.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:31:14] ええ。あとそれ以外のメディアも色々最近取材もいただいてますので、あの、ぜひこの問題ですね、引き続き、あの、ご関心をお持ちいただいて、また海外の方も今日見てる方多いと思うんですけども、あの、日本も積極的にやってるってことをぜひ知っていただければと思います。
(EN) Indeed. We've also been getting coverage from various other media outlets lately, so please continue to keep an eye on this issue. I believe we have many viewers from abroad tuning in today, and I hope they realize that Japan is actively addressing this as well.
[Kou Nanao, 2:31:29] はい。あの、日本には浅川よしはるというものがいますので。
(EN) Right. After all, Japan has Yoshiharu Asakawa.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:31:32] ええ。ぜひよろしくお願いします。
(EN) Yes, thank you for your support.
[Kou Nanao, 2:31:35] はい、わかりました。じゃあ、それでは本日はこの辺で失礼します。えー、ご視聴いただきましてありがとうございました。
(EN) Okay, got it. Well, that's all for today. Thank you very much for watching.
[Yoshiharu Asakawa, 2:31:41] ありがとうございました。
(EN) Thank you.