Jeremy Corbell on Jesse Michels / American Alchemy (June 2026)

Source: YouTube, Jesse Michels / American Alchemy — "“If You Knew What I Knew!” — Jeremy Corbell UNLEASHES On Jesse Michels." Published: 2026-06-07 (3:00:19). URL: https://youtu.be/-XdvIrexF08 Guest: Jeremy Corbell (filmmaker; Weaponized podcast w/ George Knapp; Sleeping Dog documentary; represents experiencer/whistleblower Dylan Borland). Transcription: YouTube English auto-captions via youtube_transcript.py --timestamps (machine ASR; minor errors, incl. "Gaffne"=Gaffney, "Putoff"=Puthoff, "Latsky"=Lacatski, "Hamarov"=Hameroff, "Bigalow"=Bigelow, "Loheed"=Lockheed). Captured: 2026-06-07. Analysis: ../../sources/corbell-career-and-claims.

3-hour wide-ranging interview. Notable threads: Dylan Borland's claimed Congress testimony (a gold-plasma-clad triangle craft near a NASA hangar); Corbell's "three things never said before," sourced to an intelligence agency and lawyer-cleared — framed as the US having mated a non-human power source to a man-made craft body that "can't handle it"; naming Glenn Gaffney (CIA S&T) re: the Lockheed→Bigelow craft-transfer block; claimed unreleased John Lear 1977 Groom Lake photos; and Corbell's notable skepticism toward the psionics / "call in craft" (Skywatcher/Greer) crowd. All single-source / relayed — see analysis.

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[00:00:00.080] And that's when you see that footage and
[00:00:03.280] he just unloaded.
[00:00:06.240] He says, "I know UFOs are real. I was
[00:00:09.840] inside one. I know they were made with
[00:00:12.240] materials that we can't duplicate. We
[00:00:14.240] can't replicate." First time you ever
[00:00:16.880] hear him like, "Fuck the noise."
[00:00:21.199] My name is Jeremy Corbel. I seek to
[00:00:23.840] weaponize your curiosity. and I see a
[00:00:26.880] white light pop up and stop about 100 ft
[00:00:29.199] in the air.
[00:00:30.560] >> On weaponized, you've broken some
[00:00:32.480] amazing stories. Matthew Brown, Dylan
[00:00:34.800] Borland, Jim Latsky.
[00:00:36.480] >> You told us because you were allowed to
[00:00:38.239] tell us that our government has a UFO in
[00:00:40.559] its possession and has been able to
[00:00:42.239] access the inside of it. Right.
[00:00:44.160] >> Yes.
[00:00:46.000] >> It's a Rubik's cube. It's a
[00:00:48.160] constellation.
[00:00:50.239] It is a variety of investigations with
[00:00:53.520] different hardware, software, and minds
[00:00:55.280] on them to exploit in different ways.
[00:00:58.000] Working on a craft is different than
[00:01:00.000] working with a craft.
[00:01:02.719] Do you think we get another Bob Lazar
[00:01:05.199] coming out near term?
[00:01:06.479] >> We almost got it and he's dead.
[00:01:10.960] Matthew Sullivan was fact going to
[00:01:14.320] testify 2 weeks about before he died, I
[00:01:17.040] think. And that's why people and the FBI
[00:01:19.840] are investigating if his death was
[00:01:22.320] suspicious.
[00:01:24.560] >> Somebody you know
[00:01:25.360] >> Yeah.
[00:01:25.680] >> worked on the reverse engineering
[00:01:27.200] >> Yeah.
[00:01:27.759] >> of a laser weapon system from a downed
[00:01:31.040] Russian asset.
[00:01:33.040] >> NHS.
[00:01:33.680] >> Last name start with T.
[00:01:35.119] >> We're not playing that game in front of
[00:01:36.479] camera.
[00:01:37.840] >> I'm going to crack a beer for this part.
[00:01:39.280] I wanted to have a a drink with Jesse.
[00:01:41.040] He's got water cuz he's an alien.
[00:01:43.680] >> So this is back and forth.
[00:01:45.520] >> Rapid fire. Okay.
[00:01:47.119] >> Are you independent
[00:01:49.680] or are you controlled,
[00:01:52.479] >> bro? Let's not get into it, right? You
[00:01:54.159] said you don't want to.
[00:01:55.040] >> Okay,
[00:01:55.759] >> so let's not.
[00:01:56.479] >> We can if you want.
[00:01:57.920] >> Bro, this is going to be so awkward for
[00:02:00.399] your audience.
[00:02:02.960] >> Ignition sequence.
[00:02:06.719] >> How is this possible?
[00:02:09.119] >> Nothing too unusual about that.
[00:02:12.879] Their existence cannot longer be denied.
[00:02:24.640] Before we dive into this wild episode, I
[00:02:27.120] want to give a huge thank you to one of
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[00:04:00.720] the show. Now, back to today's episode.
[00:04:05.439] Jeremy Corbel, Jesse Michaels, this is
[00:04:08.000] an honor and it's been a long time
[00:04:09.519] coming and I'm just so grateful for you
[00:04:11.920] coming on the show. This is really cool.
[00:04:14.080] You uh need no intro, but I'm going to
[00:04:16.320] give you one.
[00:04:16.959] >> Okay.
[00:04:17.359] >> Uh you broke the OG original
[00:04:21.280] whistleblower of the UFO reverse
[00:04:23.040] engineering program, the guy that did it
[00:04:24.960] in, you know, there are guys before him
[00:04:26.240] like Bill Uouse, but in the most
[00:04:28.000] credible,
[00:04:29.520] thorough way. And that's Bob Lazar. He
[00:04:31.840] made an amazing documentary about him
[00:04:34.080] and covered it as thoroughly as anybody.
[00:04:36.560] Obviously, working closely with George
[00:04:38.160] Knap, who broke the story.
[00:04:39.360] >> I was going to say, I did not break that
[00:04:40.800] story. That story got broke because Bob
[00:04:42.960] was about to get broken by opposition.
[00:04:45.840] And George Knap not only broke that
[00:04:48.479] story with Bob, but he carried it along
[00:04:51.199] the way, making sure his reporting was
[00:04:53.600] accurate to this [ __ ] day.
[00:04:55.440] >> That's right. Can I say those words?
[00:04:57.120] >> You can say those. You can say whatever
[00:04:58.479] you want.
[00:04:58.800] >> We broke the [ __ ] barrier. We did. And
[00:05:02.320] you and George are close collaborators,
[00:05:04.560] longtime colleagues. You've called him
[00:05:06.000] your mentor. And you guys both host the
[00:05:08.400] podcast Weaponized. Everybody should
[00:05:10.000] check that out
[00:05:11.199] >> on Weaponized. You've broken some
[00:05:13.440] amazing stories. Matthew Brown. I want
[00:05:15.680] to get into I want to get into Dylan
[00:05:17.440] Borland. I want to get into another
[00:05:19.600] person who breached the hole and walked
[00:05:22.240] into a UFO not in some sort of liinal
[00:05:25.280] state in a dream but in a presumably a
[00:05:27.840] hanger an aerospace hanger in Jim
[00:05:29.680] Latsky. Uh so you've broken some of the
[00:05:32.880] most incredible interesting stories when
[00:05:35.840] it comes to UFOs and I'm very excited to
[00:05:39.199] speak to you today.
[00:05:40.639] >> Thank you so much Jesse.
[00:05:42.639] >> I'm excited to speak to you. There are
[00:05:44.000] things that people don't know background
[00:05:45.360] things that I think will be really
[00:05:46.479] interesting to people. You didn't
[00:05:47.919] mention David Gush. I want to talk to
[00:05:49.199] you about how that all went down. He
[00:05:51.199] came over to George Naple to him at a
[00:05:52.880] bar with the unclassified ICIG
[00:05:55.440] complaint. And we took so much time
[00:05:57.039] vetting him to make sure and I fought to
[00:05:59.199] make sure he could talk in Congress. And
[00:06:00.639] he'll tell you the exact same thing. I
[00:06:02.160] fought they didn't want him to testify.
[00:06:03.919] And he's one of many they didn't want to
[00:06:06.160] testify. Additionally, what people might
[00:06:08.800] not know is George Knap and I did break
[00:06:10.960] the Commander Fra story, the tic tac
[00:06:12.800] story. We did it quietly on the radio
[00:06:15.919] twice
[00:06:16.880] >> before the 2017 New York Times.
[00:06:19.039] >> Yes, sir. Reverse time machine.
[00:06:21.680] >> Wow.
[00:06:22.160] >> People got to be audio daidex or
[00:06:24.000] whatever. They got to like go in there
[00:06:25.280] and listen. I can pull them up.
[00:06:28.080] >> Well, let's get cuz you just said
[00:06:29.600] something very interesting leaning over
[00:06:31.520] at a bar.
[00:06:32.400] >> Yes.
[00:06:33.199] >> With David Grush. So, what happened
[00:06:35.680] there?
[00:06:36.319] >> Okay.
[00:06:39.360] So, there's so many things. Where's your
[00:06:41.199] audience? There's so many things Jesse
[00:06:42.400] and I want to talk about because this is
[00:06:43.919] like actually him and me just talking.
[00:06:46.319] Um, and this is long overdue. So, when
[00:06:49.680] you ask me a question, I'm going to
[00:06:51.520] answer directly and then we can go from
[00:06:53.199] there. What happened there?
[00:06:56.400] What happened is we were in Rocket City,
[00:06:59.759] Alabama.
[00:07:00.560] >> Mhm. Um,
[00:07:03.440] and we were there for SCU because there
[00:07:06.560] were some people that are not public
[00:07:09.360] that we wanted an opportunity to meet
[00:07:11.759] with where it was like we could go
[00:07:14.800] somewhere and have a actual private
[00:07:18.000] in-person meeting. So, we went to the
[00:07:22.319] SCU thing so that we could do a
[00:07:25.199] journalism thing.
[00:07:28.479] I happened to be filming cuz that's why
[00:07:31.759] we were there. I was filming
[00:07:34.880] and I'm pointing the camera at George. I
[00:07:36.400] thought it was just so cute. He's like,
[00:07:37.759] you know, gets to this thing. He's he's
[00:07:39.599] overwhelmed with all this stuff and like
[00:07:41.120] he and I like to just have a beer. I'm
[00:07:44.080] going to crack this at a certain point.
[00:07:45.520] So,
[00:07:48.639] bartender gives him a beer. And as I'm
[00:07:50.800] filming, this guy's blocking my shot. He
[00:07:53.039] like comes in and he whispers to George
[00:07:55.280] Knapp and I'm protected like a pit bull,
[00:07:56.879] right? So immediately I capture I watch
[00:07:58.960] him and turns out that was David Grush
[00:08:03.039] >> and he's essentially we knew about David
[00:08:06.639] but but we we have to vet every single
[00:08:09.440] source no matter how good they sound.
[00:08:11.599] That's our job. You got to vet them,
[00:08:13.680] right? And that and that I'm on cosmic
[00:08:15.599] time. Journalists that rush stories out,
[00:08:18.560] they want to be first. I want to be
[00:08:19.680] first. I want to be right. want to get
[00:08:22.080] it right.
[00:08:23.919] So, he leaned over and I got it all. Lip
[00:08:27.680] readers know what he said. He was kind
[00:08:29.680] of trying to do like he didn't know it
[00:08:31.039] was filming. Now he does. Now he does.
[00:08:32.880] >> What? I'll I'll I'll give you an out.
[00:08:34.640] What did the lip readers say that he
[00:08:36.560] said?
[00:08:37.200] >> You know, essentially all he said was um
[00:08:40.159] my name is David Grush. I'm an intel
[00:08:43.120] officer. You know, a little bit of
[00:08:44.560] history.
[00:08:45.040] >> Sure. Um, I am going to
[00:08:48.160] come I'm going to file or I just did
[00:08:51.040] file actually my official ICIG inspector
[00:08:56.480] uh intelligence committee inspector
[00:08:57.760] general which we should break down for
[00:08:59.279] your audience. A lot of people don't
[00:09:00.560] know what that means.
[00:09:01.600] >> Mhm.
[00:09:02.959] >> Inspector general is like the police.
[00:09:05.200] Let's look at it that way. How I
[00:09:06.959] understand it from a Simpson version,
[00:09:09.200] right? Police. The IC is intelligence
[00:09:12.000] community. Wraps up all the intelligence
[00:09:13.760] communities. At the top of that is ODNI,
[00:09:16.560] office of the director of national
[00:09:18.000] intelligence, but CIA is under them as
[00:09:22.240] well as maybe 16 intelligence agencies
[00:09:24.640] that are acknowledged within the United
[00:09:26.640] States.
[00:09:28.240] So that's what the inspector general of
[00:09:31.040] the intelligence community is, is the
[00:09:33.360] watchdog of the intelligence community.
[00:09:36.160] And that's very relevant. Up until this
[00:09:37.920] minute, we're talking some stuff was in
[00:09:39.839] the news just a few days ago. And I want
[00:09:41.600] to break that down for people. So, David
[00:09:43.920] Grush
[00:09:45.519] provides
[00:09:47.040] in absolute legal capacity
[00:09:50.160] enough information for me and George to
[00:09:53.440] begin. So, we have our little side talks
[00:09:56.399] and we're like, "Well, I'm like, George,
[00:09:57.760] you know, you know what I got to do?" He
[00:09:59.120] goes, "Yeah, you got to take him to a
[00:10:00.800] bar." I go, "But he doesn't drink." Cuz
[00:10:02.720] I asked him, right? All right. We'll get
[00:10:04.240] him anyway. So, I met up with him later
[00:10:06.160] that night and he watched me drink uh a
[00:10:09.120] beers, which is glorious. And I always
[00:10:10.640] like sip them, you know, just to stay on
[00:10:12.959] the level. I think Gary Nolan was there
[00:10:15.040] with us and he did actually take a shot
[00:10:16.640] with me. If he says he didn't, he's
[00:10:18.000] lying. I think he'll admit to it. Gary
[00:10:19.440] Nolan came out to the thing and um I got
[00:10:22.000] to know David a little bit. You know how
[00:10:23.839] you and I like get to know each other a
[00:10:25.600] little bit over time the first time,
[00:10:27.279] right? That's what happened that day.
[00:10:29.920] But then what happened after is what
[00:10:31.360] people don't know, which is how do you
[00:10:33.360] communicate about something sensitive
[00:10:35.519] just like signal smoke signals? How do
[00:10:38.320] you how do you do it? So, we got to a
[00:10:40.240] point where we knew David Gush was not
[00:10:42.880] only legit, but everything he said is
[00:10:47.120] accurate. Not just to the best of his
[00:10:49.279] knowledge that it is accurate. And
[00:10:52.720] there's a difference there. So,
[00:10:56.959] that began the conversation.
[00:11:00.480] What is the end goal here? You're you're
[00:11:03.120] worried, right? Yeah, of course he's
[00:11:04.800] worried. He's a lone standing wolf
[00:11:08.079] telling the world something they had
[00:11:10.000] never heard before, always have
[00:11:11.360] suspected, and our government has
[00:11:12.959] covered it up for all these decades. I'm
[00:11:15.519] getting goosebumps because if I was in
[00:11:18.160] his position,
[00:11:20.000] >> think about the pool of people that know
[00:11:22.240] and then the pool pool of people that
[00:11:23.920] really know anything. It was his job to
[00:11:26.399] investigate black budget programs
[00:11:27.680] surrounding UAP. He did 40 like
[00:11:30.000] depositions, whatever you call them, and
[00:11:32.000] more. This guy has put everything on the
[00:11:35.519] line. Everything. He broke the fold.
[00:11:37.920] Stop for personal gain. First question I
[00:11:40.560] asked him at the bar, you know. I said,
[00:11:43.519] "You got to tell me what I'm going to
[00:11:46.000] find out. What's your dirt? What's the
[00:11:49.279] lowest point in your life? Because if
[00:11:51.440] you're telling the truth, that's what
[00:11:53.440] they're going to come after. PTSD. Bro,
[00:11:56.640] >> I was in combat in Afghanistan 2013. And
[00:11:59.680] you know, I got diagnosed as, you know,
[00:12:01.519] post-traumatic stress disorder, you
[00:12:03.600] know, sought treatment. You know, I got
[00:12:05.040] help, good to go. But there was an
[00:12:07.440] agency that tried to dig that back up
[00:12:09.200] and say, "Oh, Dave still has ongoing
[00:12:12.240] issues, unmitigated. We need to pull his
[00:12:15.760] clearance." And then I had to show my
[00:12:17.120] medical records and be like, "No, dude.
[00:12:19.040] I sought treatment. Still do because
[00:12:21.680] that's what you do." And they they tried
[00:12:24.240] to use that against it. Was crazy.
[00:12:26.480] almost every service person and
[00:12:28.480] non-service people I know can have that.
[00:12:31.600] So they of course attacked that in a
[00:12:33.440] malicious way leaked by intelligence
[00:12:35.040] community to a fake journalist cuz fake
[00:12:37.680] journalists don't pay people by the way.
[00:12:40.880] So that's the story of the beer. It was
[00:12:45.040] the beginning of the potential of having
[00:12:47.360] somebody raise their hand in front of
[00:12:49.120] the world, America, the Congress, the
[00:12:51.680] entire world, and say, "Not only are
[00:12:54.880] UFOs real, but we are reverse
[00:12:57.920] engineering the craft. We've been
[00:13:00.000] exploiting their derivative technologies
[00:13:01.839] for decades. We've made very little
[00:13:03.440] progress, but a little bit." And there
[00:13:05.600] were biologics just means pilots,
[00:13:08.399] beings, nonhuman. And that was the
[00:13:11.760] assessment of that's what he followed up
[00:13:13.680] with. That's what David Gres did. He
[00:13:17.200] popped the balloon and now we're all
[00:13:19.920] just trying to like catch up. And you're
[00:13:23.600] talking about a guy who handled the
[00:13:25.279] presidential daily brief was well
[00:13:27.600] regarded by a lot of his colleagues. I
[00:13:29.440] also in the name of vetting. He was one
[00:13:32.160] of the guys who I got to
[00:13:33.440] >> got on camera first and brought him out.
[00:13:37.440] actually Coldart did, but I but I also
[00:13:40.720] had known him for a couple years before.
[00:13:43.440] >> Yes, sir.
[00:13:44.240] >> And and I met some of his colleagues
[00:13:47.760] >> and they all just spoke about him in
[00:13:50.399] super high regard. Even colleagues who
[00:13:52.800] weren't working with him in an official
[00:13:54.720] capacity investigating UFO programs.
[00:13:56.560] They just worked with him in other
[00:13:58.639] >> capacities um that are prosaically well
[00:14:01.839] regarded. you know, like like handling
[00:14:03.760] the presidential daily brief being in,
[00:14:06.079] you know, the National Geospatial Agency
[00:14:07.920] and they
[00:14:08.480] >> I want you to give his biography and all
[00:14:10.000] that,
[00:14:11.040] >> but next level
[00:14:13.279] >> find somebody that that doesn't like
[00:14:14.959] him.
[00:14:16.800] >> Find out if they tell you I don't like
[00:14:19.279] him, but
[00:14:20.399] >> and then they tell you what he did and
[00:14:22.399] then you're like, uhhuh.
[00:14:23.600] >> I I I have met people who don't like him
[00:14:27.040] and uh it feels like they have ulterior
[00:14:29.279] motives.
[00:14:29.760] >> Right. Right. But you still in the early
[00:14:31.440] in the early stages you you you know
[00:14:33.680] co-worker situation all this you got
[00:14:35.360] people like people don't like them that
[00:14:36.639] kind of thing. You when you're
[00:14:38.240] investigating something you always try
[00:14:39.920] to find the people that want to hurt
[00:14:41.839] somebody or don't like them and see if
[00:14:44.240] they can't deny certain truths that
[00:14:46.639] you're looking to validate. That's one
[00:14:48.639] tactic in journalism. The funny thing is
[00:14:51.519] when I try to kind of corroborate his
[00:14:53.839] claims with, you know, people I meet in
[00:14:55.920] the government, I say, "Hey, like what
[00:14:58.240] about what he's saying isn't true." And
[00:15:00.160] they're like, "Well, a lot of it checks
[00:15:02.079] to be honest." And like, you know, his
[00:15:04.240] pretty above board as far as his
[00:15:05.600] background goes, but like I don't know.
[00:15:07.920] It's just this. And and they use these
[00:15:09.360] like handwavy ways to sort of explain it
[00:15:12.240] away.
[00:15:12.959] >> And I'm like, "Okay, well, why don't you
[00:15:14.560] go a little deeper? Why don't you look
[00:15:15.680] into you know if you have the proper
[00:15:17.279] clearances you know he gave presumably
[00:15:20.079] hundreds of pages to Thomas Mannheim the
[00:15:22.639] IC inspector general
[00:15:24.480] >> not not allegedly whatever word oh you
[00:15:26.480] said
[00:15:27.040] >> I don't know about the amount of pages
[00:15:28.480] but you know it doesn't matter
[00:15:30.800] >> you're right
[00:15:31.600] >> yeah and 40 firhand people that worked
[00:15:34.880] directly on the craft not only that but
[00:15:38.639] uh I have reason to believe that uh
[00:15:43.440] there are factions involved involved in
[00:15:45.279] UFO disclosure and there's a specific
[00:15:48.160] faction that's sort of come out you know
[00:15:51.199] uh and you know is gung-ho about a
[00:15:54.079] certain disclosure to a certain extent
[00:15:56.720] and I think they weren't really uh
[00:15:58.480] anticipating David Grush.
[00:16:00.480] >> Oh no they weren't.
[00:16:02.399] >> That was that was a planned thing is how
[00:16:05.199] to move somebody from he's lived in his
[00:16:07.600] whole life you know kind of in you're
[00:16:10.000] not going out there trying to be on
[00:16:11.680] social media. He lived his whole life, I
[00:16:14.240] say, in the shadows, right? This happens
[00:16:16.240] with a lot of these intel guys. They're
[00:16:17.759] not used to the public attention. And
[00:16:20.079] then good or bad, it hurts them or it
[00:16:22.000] makes them feel better. I I tell them
[00:16:24.320] >> praise and blame is all the same, man.
[00:16:25.920] You got to be right with yourself and
[00:16:27.199] your family and your dogs and make sure
[00:16:29.600] this guy got dogs. And make sure that
[00:16:32.399] you're solid because that public
[00:16:34.880] attention when you bring your head out
[00:16:36.800] of the parapit above
[00:16:39.519] it, it can it can really harm people. It
[00:16:42.079] has harmed people.
[00:16:42.959] >> Absolutely. Well, I I also I think it's
[00:16:44.800] really important though to make clear,
[00:16:47.440] you know, upon questioning uh you know,
[00:16:50.079] him and others. I feel like it's very
[00:16:52.959] clear that his sources aren't only the
[00:16:56.560] ones of the people who want disclosure
[00:16:59.120] to a certain line. His disclo his
[00:17:01.199] sources go deeper than that. And so
[00:17:03.120] there's this constant question of
[00:17:04.400] circular reporting. Are you just talking
[00:17:06.160] to the people who did Nids and Bigalow
[00:17:08.319] and all this sort of, you know, external
[00:17:10.000] >> host? Even they don't believe though,
[00:17:11.839] even Dr. Cass doesn't believe we should
[00:17:13.919] handle disclosure. Don't kick a sleeping
[00:17:16.000] dog. That's what I've been told every
[00:17:17.839] time I got to the top of the food chain.
[00:17:19.679] The highest George and I could ever get
[00:17:21.280] to every single time. It's like they
[00:17:22.799] practice that saying. So even people
[00:17:25.439] that you're naming don't think
[00:17:28.240] disclosure is a good thing.
[00:17:29.679] >> Right.
[00:17:30.240] >> So, so imagine the people that are have
[00:17:32.559] their whole lives have been to guard it.
[00:17:34.400] You can't get that out of them. That's
[00:17:36.400] been their job. Protective programs.
[00:17:38.720] It's protective programming. Why do you
[00:17:40.880] think that, you know, when you get to
[00:17:42.640] the inner layers of this program, it
[00:17:46.080] always comes out that like, oh, if you
[00:17:47.760] knew what I knew, you wouldn't want this
[00:17:49.760] stuff out.
[00:17:52.559] >> First of all, you say program, and I I
[00:17:55.440] think it's really important to break
[00:17:56.880] that down. People say the legacy
[00:17:58.160] program, dude, that's a holding name.
[00:18:00.080] like um like
[00:18:02.960] Bill is a holding name for a team of FBI
[00:18:06.480] Frank.
[00:18:07.360] >> It's a group of people,
[00:18:08.960] >> right? So the legacy program when people
[00:18:11.679] say that yeah program there are programs
[00:18:14.640] and they are isolated from one another.
[00:18:17.520] >> Uh so
[00:18:19.840] not every single person was a technician
[00:18:22.799] directly on a craft that David Gush
[00:18:24.720] brought to the ICIG. They had direct
[00:18:27.280] exposure to the program with an S,
[00:18:31.520] right? So that that's really important
[00:18:33.280] to know. We we call it the program, the
[00:18:35.280] legacy program, bro. Many names. Palm is
[00:18:39.520] Apple in French. I was just told by GSP
[00:18:43.039] Apple is Apple, you know. So different
[00:18:45.120] names, same thing. But it's a Rubik's
[00:18:47.760] cube. It's a constellation.
[00:18:50.559] It is a variety of investigations with
[00:18:54.160] different hardware, software, and minds
[00:18:55.919] on them to exploit in different ways.
[00:18:58.640] Working on a craft is different than
[00:19:00.640] working with a craft, right? That's
[00:19:03.679] what's so weird. I'm curious to hear if
[00:19:06.000] this is your experience cuz you've done
[00:19:07.280] this for for for decades longer than me.
[00:19:09.440] But for my experience is I always think,
[00:19:12.640] okay, in a few months I'm going to get
[00:19:15.039] to the bottom of this. I'm going to
[00:19:16.400] figure this, you know, and then and then
[00:19:18.320] a few months go go go go go by and you
[00:19:21.039] learn about this whole new weird aspect
[00:19:23.760] to this.
[00:19:25.520] >> Yeah. How so?
[00:19:27.600] >> Because there are protection programs to
[00:19:29.679] dilute.
[00:19:30.559] >> Sure.
[00:19:30.880] >> To misdirect.
[00:19:32.320] >> Yes.
[00:19:32.640] >> And I've and they're seductive.
[00:19:35.679] >> They're shiny. You want to believe it.
[00:19:38.480] >> You have to be careful of the next
[00:19:41.200] aspects, but it is an onion. There's
[00:19:43.200] layers to it. I didn't mean to say there
[00:19:44.720] aren't. It's just be careful with it.
[00:19:47.039] >> For sure. Well, no. I think you have to
[00:19:48.720] think with extreme epistemic humility
[00:19:51.280] and not epistemic mean
[00:19:52.799] >> not a way of knowing. So, you can't you
[00:19:55.280] can't jump to any sort of conclusion.
[00:19:57.600] You can't snap anything to grid. You
[00:19:59.600] have to sort of say, "Okay, I'm going to
[00:20:01.280] wait for corroboration for that in the
[00:20:02.799] future." But this could be counterintel
[00:20:04.559] like everything. You have to if you
[00:20:06.799] listen Dr. Latsky said on my program
[00:20:09.840] with George, you know, he gave a warning
[00:20:12.240] about two things. One is the protective
[00:20:15.520] programs and and the disinformation that
[00:20:17.440] he knows. He never identified who
[00:20:19.120] somebody lied while their hand was up in
[00:20:21.120] Congress knowingly, I think he was
[00:20:22.880] saying. And then he said that people
[00:20:25.919] believe things because they're shown in
[00:20:27.760] official capacity. But I'm not talking
[00:20:29.120] about stupid nonsense where where people
[00:20:31.440] are saying um Yankee Blue that was a
[00:20:34.240] that was a scop. They're trying to
[00:20:36.320] pretend that existed in the capacity
[00:20:38.720] they say. So he warned us against that.
[00:20:41.360] Dr. Latsky, he also warned us very
[00:20:45.840] strongly if you watch that we're going
[00:20:49.120] to lose the ability to really engage
[00:20:52.640] this topic without the brightest minds
[00:20:54.400] cuz we're not teaching inside
[00:20:56.480] scientifically the younger generations.
[00:20:58.799] And he is scared about that. that
[00:21:00.960] because of the secrecy, which he doesn't
[00:21:02.720] want full secrecy on this, but because
[00:21:04.320] of it, we are going to fall behind with
[00:21:07.520] the American um mechanics of how to
[00:21:11.440] interrogate the UAP problem. Well, and
[00:21:14.720] that's what's really interesting about
[00:21:15.760] his new book, New Insights. At the end
[00:21:17.760] of it, he goes into a bunch of
[00:21:19.679] modalities and frameworks that he
[00:21:21.600] clearly wants spread among young STEM
[00:21:23.919] students all over the country. He gets
[00:21:25.280] into high frequency gravitational waves
[00:21:28.159] and rotate solid state rotating
[00:21:30.240] superconductors for gravitational
[00:21:32.080] manipulation and like really crazy [ __ ]
[00:21:35.200] Just they should hire you because let me
[00:21:36.880] just tell you most people don't read his
[00:21:40.640] book and take from that what he means.
[00:21:44.320] And you you have to translate
[00:21:47.919] complex things into you don't dumb
[00:21:51.440] anything down. you simplify it until the
[00:21:54.720] next question is asked. And he needs to
[00:21:57.120] practice that because his voice, man,
[00:21:59.360] he's done more for he has actually done
[00:22:02.080] more from a knowledge standpoint of
[00:22:05.840] transparency on this than I think most
[00:22:08.640] people throughout history. If you go and
[00:22:11.520] you read his books like you did, but we
[00:22:13.919] need bright minds to look at it. We need
[00:22:15.520] everybody asking the next question. Like
[00:22:17.600] when I started this man, people thought
[00:22:19.600] it was like UFOs
[00:22:23.120] this, right? So now we're at a consensus
[00:22:25.600] reality where it's like, okay, there's a
[00:22:28.720] there there, but what's the question not
[00:22:31.280] being asked
[00:22:32.400] >> and and we're so close.
[00:22:34.799] >> We're so close. Did you find it
[00:22:36.880] frustrating when he was on your podcast
[00:22:38.960] and you asked him about him stepping
[00:22:41.360] inside of a UFO and he said yes, but
[00:22:45.280] then he also was like very clear that he
[00:22:48.240] couldn't say much more than what he had
[00:22:50.480] said in the book.
[00:22:51.600] >> Is you're officially allowed to tell us
[00:22:54.159] that the United States government has in
[00:22:55.919] its possession a craft of unknown origin
[00:22:58.080] and you are able to access the inside.
[00:23:01.039] Is that correct?
[00:23:03.440] The wording that you're you read is
[00:23:06.320] correct. Ah, you're going beyond the
[00:23:09.039] wording.
[00:23:09.840] >> No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm asking you,
[00:23:11.600] did that meeting happen?
[00:23:13.679] >> And is it true?
[00:23:15.039] >> And it's true.
[00:23:16.480] >> Yes.
[00:23:16.720] >> Okay. So, you you're you're telling us
[00:23:19.280] you told us because you were allowed to
[00:23:21.039] tell us
[00:23:21.919] >> that our government has a UFO in its
[00:23:23.919] possession and has been able to access
[00:23:25.760] the inside of it, right?
[00:23:28.400] >> Yes.
[00:23:29.120] >> Why do you think he was able to get that
[00:23:31.520] cleared? the fact that he conspiracy
[00:23:34.159] like why could he get that cleared? And
[00:23:36.240] and
[00:23:36.480] >> I think it's a reasonable question.
[00:23:37.919] >> It's extremely reasonable, but it
[00:23:40.080] creates a conspiratorial mindset, right?
[00:23:43.039] Like, oh, we've distrust government on
[00:23:45.280] this. Why are they allowing it now? It's
[00:23:47.120] like people ask questions like how is
[00:23:49.679] Jeremy and George not in trouble for and
[00:23:53.200] how do they obtain such a variety of
[00:23:56.080] different products from argument that I
[00:23:59.200] I'll call sensitive most likely right
[00:24:04.640] first of all about me and George it's
[00:24:07.120] called [ __ ] journalism and and if and
[00:24:09.760] if you if you are not seeing that you
[00:24:13.279] are looking at the wrong thing.
[00:24:17.279] >> So with Latsky,
[00:24:19.760] why you asked a bunch of questions
[00:24:21.279] there. So why
[00:24:23.279] >> did they let him?
[00:24:24.799] >> Well, you know, not everybody at a
[00:24:26.400] doctor desk, you know, is is equal,
[00:24:29.520] >> you know, and you can submit a book in
[00:24:31.279] one way and say it's fictitious or you
[00:24:33.279] can submit it and say it's this is fact.
[00:24:35.760] And he did the fact way, right? It's
[00:24:38.240] harder. Took a long time. George knows
[00:24:40.720] how long it took with with each book.
[00:24:43.440] Why did they let him? I know for a fact
[00:24:46.880] there are people in the mechanisms of
[00:24:49.039] government that let things get through
[00:24:52.320] because they're on our side.
[00:24:54.320] >> Truth. I suspect that's why it's not
[00:24:56.880] some big plan. Dude, if this was
[00:24:58.799] planned, I would kick back, relax, and
[00:25:00.480] stop and not worry because then we've
[00:25:02.320] got a plan situation. This is Vietnam.
[00:25:05.919] Everything has been provoked. It's been
[00:25:07.679] fought for millimeter by millimeter for
[00:25:10.080] years and decades. So what you get from
[00:25:13.840] him is the absolute factual information.
[00:25:18.080] It it's not theoretical. It's factual.
[00:25:21.039] And and so and he says when he doesn't
[00:25:22.880] know stuff.
[00:25:23.679] >> Yeah. He's a senior DIA rocket scientist
[00:25:26.080] with a long history. And I I think it's
[00:25:29.840] important for people to realize there's
[00:25:31.760] probably a war going on inside the
[00:25:33.520] government. And there are probably
[00:25:34.640] elements of the quote unquote legacy
[00:25:36.400] program that want itself
[00:25:39.200] outed or partially outed. Like there are
[00:25:42.159] members of, you know, inside these
[00:25:44.480] programs that think the way they're
[00:25:46.640] being run is ridiculous. That's why you
[00:25:49.679] had the vice president of Loheed Martin
[00:25:53.279] trying to get the craft and hardware
[00:25:56.640] that they have obtained a long time ago
[00:26:00.000] out the back door into the sunlight
[00:26:03.679] through the front door and studied that
[00:26:06.480] way. They saw the writing on the wall
[00:26:08.480] and it was being facilitated
[00:26:10.720] by Dr. Colin Keller, Dr. James Latsky,
[00:26:14.400] bunch of people they worked with. That's
[00:26:17.360] the truth. What you just said. There are
[00:26:19.360] a lot of people that realize there's no
[00:26:23.679] right. There's no purpose to hold back
[00:26:26.880] from human beings the ultimate truth,
[00:26:29.919] whatever that might be. I got some
[00:26:31.360] guesses. You know, maybe there are um
[00:26:33.440] UFOs and they're not from here. Whatever
[00:26:35.200] that means. I mean, why would you build
[00:26:36.320] a Ferrari not to go fast? Why would you
[00:26:38.000] make something that appears that it
[00:26:39.919] could travel amongst the stars if it
[00:26:42.080] doesn't? And that gives you a sense of
[00:26:44.880] at least one aspect of origin. Yes.
[00:26:47.279] >> Of course, there might be more.
[00:26:48.799] >> So, yeah, dude. I look man, this is my
[00:26:50.799] favorite topic and you and I got
[00:26:52.960] >> so many things we can talk about, but I
[00:26:54.960] agree with what your analysis is.
[00:26:57.600] >> Well, I want to touch on something that
[00:26:59.279] you just mentioned, which is um the VP
[00:27:01.520] at Lockheed Martin. His name was Jim
[00:27:03.120] Ryder. That's right.
[00:27:04.080] >> And he gave a very interesting speech
[00:27:06.320] called the garment of the gods. And it's
[00:27:10.320] very strange. about the veil thinning
[00:27:13.039] and he talks about extrensory perception
[00:27:15.760] and consciousness but he's a VP at
[00:27:18.159] Loheed Martin space systems who's very
[00:27:20.240] well respected
[00:27:21.520] >> the idea that everything from spoons to
[00:27:23.679] stones are conscious is gaining academic
[00:27:26.000] credibility who wrote that one of the
[00:27:27.919] most senior physicists in Canada it's
[00:27:30.480] the only conclusion we have everything
[00:27:32.080] is conscious we're just discussing
[00:27:33.520] amount and levels
[00:27:35.039] >> I find him and Latsky's language around
[00:27:38.000] this topic very interesting Latsky talks
[00:27:40.320] about Plato 's cave and consciousness
[00:27:43.200] and
[00:27:43.679] >> it affects you
[00:27:45.039] >> to know something this big and hidden.
[00:27:48.159] It's like um
[00:27:49.600] >> if you've ever taken a psychedelic,
[00:27:51.360] right? You've seen this world around you
[00:27:53.919] at all times, but you are not initiated
[00:27:57.600] to what that world is or means. So you
[00:27:59.840] might see like a tie-dye or dancing
[00:28:01.440] bears of the grateful dead but you as
[00:28:04.000] soon as you breach the whole of that
[00:28:06.080] craft you you see a world that has
[00:28:10.080] always been hidden to you but has always
[00:28:11.919] been there and that can it has disturbed
[00:28:15.120] people to their core and then they start
[00:28:17.760] getting angry that that other people
[00:28:20.080] don't get to know and what this goes
[00:28:22.159] back to your question what was it
[00:28:23.840] frustrating why did he not go outside
[00:28:26.320] the parameters of his book why was he
[00:28:28.000] allowed to say that told you why is
[00:28:29.200] allowed to say it most likely.
[00:28:31.440] >> Yeah. You can see on my I hold my
[00:28:33.200] emotions like right here. You could see
[00:28:35.120] I'm frustrated. I'm not trying to hurt
[00:28:37.200] the guy. I mean, you know, I'm sure they
[00:28:38.960] all got mad at me at different times.
[00:28:40.960] I'm just pressing because I know people
[00:28:42.640] want to know and he can't say the words
[00:28:45.760] that aren't printed because he's the
[00:28:47.440] kind of guy you want protecting Secrets
[00:28:49.600] for America. He's the exact kind of guy.
[00:28:52.159] You know,
[00:28:52.480] >> it's it's so it's so interesting and
[00:28:54.240] it's so messy because
[00:28:56.240] >> Yes. It's like ideally if this thing is
[00:29:00.399] like a portal or a gateway the object is
[00:29:03.919] uh to a new sense of the actual true
[00:29:07.200] nature of reality.
[00:29:08.799] >> This should be for humanity. It should
[00:29:10.399] be for everybody.
[00:29:11.120] >> What is humans human beings knowledge
[00:29:14.080] and information we we own that right? It
[00:29:17.200] is. So having that held back, you know,
[00:29:20.799] you know the reason, you know, okay,
[00:29:23.520] America first weaponization, strategic
[00:29:25.520] surprise, strategic advantage,
[00:29:26.880] technological advantage. Like I get that
[00:29:29.600] now that's some like stone age thinking
[00:29:32.399] when we're in the Jetsons. You know that
[00:29:35.360] we're past that now. So but that is I
[00:29:38.480] understand what so they need to formally
[00:29:41.360] acknowledge the known facts, formally
[00:29:43.200] acknowledge the unknown facts. They
[00:29:45.679] really need to define the terms and
[00:29:48.960] boundaries and parameters and topography
[00:29:51.039] of what we're looking at. Because
[00:29:54.000] if they don't do that, if they don't, if
[00:29:56.399] they give us like this partial
[00:29:57.919] disclosure of stuff, then we get kind of
[00:30:01.200] lost with what it means to be human. We
[00:30:03.120] get lost with understanding our
[00:30:06.640] position in what it means to exist. And
[00:30:09.279] there might be questions that are
[00:30:11.039] unasked there that are profound that
[00:30:13.520] have profound answers that we just
[00:30:15.600] haven't like eating the mic.
[00:30:18.240] >> No, you're good.
[00:30:18.880] >> We just haven't been able to ask. And
[00:30:21.760] how do we evolve if we don't have the
[00:30:24.240] right questions? So, we need you don't
[00:30:26.960] need to tell somebody how to make a
[00:30:28.000] nuclear bomb, but you need to tell them
[00:30:29.120] nuclear physics exists and you can study
[00:30:30.799] it and try to protect that part. So, we
[00:30:33.200] got to get to the point where we're all
[00:30:35.760] at a consensus reality that matches up a
[00:30:38.240] little bit better with actual reality.
[00:30:42.399] And if we if we do that, then we're
[00:30:44.880] going to have questions. And those
[00:30:46.799] questions, the answers might be a little
[00:30:48.240] disturbing if you're a person that gets
[00:30:50.559] disturbed. Um, but it will be the truth.
[00:30:54.240] And the truth, that's what's going to
[00:30:56.480] help us evolve. And so that's why I'm so
[00:30:59.840] upset with the secret keeper.
[00:31:03.120] >> Well, it makes sense that they wouldn't
[00:31:04.799] disclose it because on the one hand,
[00:31:07.039] you're kind of seeding your authority to
[00:31:10.240] this higher thing that's flying with
[00:31:11.919] impunity at your most around your most
[00:31:14.000] sensitive sites around your nuclear
[00:31:15.919] installations tampering with the nukes
[00:31:17.919] themselves. So you don't want to admit
[00:31:19.600] that if you're in some position of
[00:31:21.120] governmental authority and then you
[00:31:23.600] don't know as far as you know what could
[00:31:25.760] confer a tactical advantage to the
[00:31:27.360] adversary. Maybe you haven't figured it
[00:31:28.880] out but it's this weird cat and mouse
[00:31:30.559] game theory thing visav v China and
[00:31:32.880] Russia. And so it's this weird thing
[00:31:35.039] where they have this asymmetric
[00:31:37.360] knowledge on the nature of reality which
[00:31:39.440] they should not have any right to visav
[00:31:43.039] normal people or scientists but their
[00:31:46.240] incentives make it so that you know
[00:31:48.159] they're just not going to go full open
[00:31:50.399] kimono anytime soon.
[00:31:52.399] >> Well don't go so fast or so quick. I
[00:31:55.760] mean you know what are we fighting for?
[00:31:57.200] >> Unless we can rest it out of them.
[00:31:59.440] >> We can provoke.
[00:32:00.960] >> Uhhuh. We you you can't just how you
[00:32:03.840] can't give anybody anything cuz cuz all
[00:32:05.840] you can do you put it in their hand but
[00:32:07.200] it's an object. You can't give anybody
[00:32:09.120] anything. You can lead by example. You
[00:32:12.080] can't take anything. It's not just one
[00:32:14.960] person's thing. You need to provoke and
[00:32:17.039] they need to give. And when they give,
[00:32:18.799] you need to receive. And that's that. So
[00:32:20.880] I'm not trying to be um oblique here. Um
[00:32:24.000] it it is an ontological issue. this
[00:32:27.120] thing and ontological I believe means uh
[00:32:30.640] relating to the existence of of being an
[00:32:33.600] existence itself relating to the
[00:32:35.600] existence of being right is that what it
[00:32:37.600] means yeah
[00:32:38.159] >> so
[00:32:39.679] this is the UFO thing is a symbol
[00:32:43.360] they're things a lot deeper than UFOs I
[00:32:46.240] suspect
[00:32:46.960] >> I agree I think it's the tip of the
[00:32:48.559] iceberg
[00:32:49.279] >> yeah but it's a symbol it's a symbol of
[00:32:51.760] freedom of thought
[00:32:53.200] >> because if you if we can talk about it
[00:32:55.679] with the right words and factual
[00:32:57.679] information. Then we have freedom of
[00:32:59.279] speech. Freedom of speech causes debate.
[00:33:01.440] Debate causes thought. Then we have
[00:33:03.360] freedom of thought. It's [ __ ]
[00:33:04.559] beautiful, man. What are we fighting
[00:33:06.000] for?
[00:33:07.679] >> It is beautiful. And I hope we're on the
[00:33:09.760] verge of a a paradigm shift because I
[00:33:12.480] mean, how do you feel now that the
[00:33:14.320] Department of War has a website with
[00:33:16.799] more hits than, you know, people in
[00:33:18.799] America? And uh you know we have stuff
[00:33:22.159] coming out and you can say that the
[00:33:23.679] stuff often is repackaged repurposed
[00:33:27.760] things that have already kind of existed
[00:33:29.279] in the open source world. I find it
[00:33:30.880] hilarious that that is what's making you
[00:33:33.679] know the Citadel scientific gatekeepers
[00:33:35.760] like Neil Degrasse Tyson take it
[00:33:37.279] seriously is the fact that it gets a
[00:33:39.120] stamp of approval from authority. So it
[00:33:40.960] kind of shows that they were never doing
[00:33:42.159] science in the first place. But how do
[00:33:44.000] you feel? Do you feel do you feel
[00:33:45.279] vindicated? Do you think it's going to
[00:33:46.720] keep going and we're going to get more
[00:33:48.399] or how do you feel about where we're at?
[00:33:50.559] >> Yeah, I I don't
[00:33:53.919] self-reflect
[00:33:55.440] when I'm when I'm fighting when I'm
[00:33:57.440] going forward. That's like the death
[00:33:59.840] gargle. If you're doing martial
[00:34:02.399] athletics is thinking about what you
[00:34:04.480] just did wrong or you know what what
[00:34:07.440] happened yesterday, you need to be fully
[00:34:09.359] forwardfacing and forwardlooking.
[00:34:12.000] So what I feel is optimistic but I'm an
[00:34:15.599] optimist you know but now there's
[00:34:17.599] tangible evidence that we should all
[00:34:19.599] have optimism but don't get complacent
[00:34:22.159] in that optimism optimism is only
[00:34:25.359] powerful if there's action behind it. So
[00:34:27.040] what we need to do in every single way
[00:34:29.119] every person we need to fight for what
[00:34:31.599] we want. If we want truth we have to
[00:34:34.000] fight for truth. If we want inner peace
[00:34:36.800] we have to fight for inner peace.
[00:34:38.399] Counterintuitive but it's true. Okay.
[00:34:40.560] People ask me all the time, "What can I
[00:34:43.200] do?" It's like they feel powerless. I'm
[00:34:45.440] not this. I don't have this a
[00:34:46.879] microphone. I'm starting a podcast. Bro,
[00:34:49.679] >> I figured it out.
[00:34:51.760] >> Um,
[00:34:54.000] use your voice. Now, how do you do that?
[00:34:57.040] I talked to some grade school teachers.
[00:34:59.760] I talked to some high school teachers.
[00:35:02.160] And I talked to some professors at major
[00:35:04.400] universities all in one weekend, right?
[00:35:06.880] They were all there at the McMinman's
[00:35:08.800] UFO Fest, which is the funnest thing in
[00:35:10.240] the world. You got to come with me next
[00:35:11.200] time. You get a golf cart and a six-ack
[00:35:12.960] of beer.
[00:35:13.599] >> It sounds epic.
[00:35:14.880] >> And I was put in jail one morning, and
[00:35:16.480] that's a true fact. It's hilarious. So,
[00:35:20.400] >> what you can do
[00:35:22.720] is you can show other people your
[00:35:26.400] curiosity. If you have a a class, you
[00:35:28.880] none of us had the answers. You got a
[00:35:30.480] class, teach it. What do you know? How
[00:35:32.720] do we separate critical thinking? the
[00:35:35.440] average singular person with nothing.
[00:35:37.680] They have five followers on um Twitter
[00:35:40.480] and they're like, "What do I do?"
[00:35:41.599] There's a woman that came up to me,
[00:35:42.720] she's a little bit older. I'm like, "Oh,
[00:35:45.040] don't worry if you have five followers.
[00:35:47.280] Say what you're thinking and tag every
[00:35:51.040] representative that is fighting for
[00:35:52.640] this. Tag the Department of War. Tag at
[00:35:55.920] Energy." That's the Department of
[00:35:57.520] Energy. Tag them. And here's why I know
[00:36:00.240] that's what you should do. Because I get
[00:36:02.880] calls from people that saw the tags
[00:36:06.720] >> and it affects them personally and it
[00:36:09.119] starts building. So imagine if everybody
[00:36:11.200] did that. Rep Luna, great job. Keep
[00:36:13.599] fighting. Don't stop. Oh my gosh. People
[00:36:17.200] read that stuff and they go, I mean, I
[00:36:19.040] notoriously don't because it's toxic for
[00:36:21.119] me. There's organized attempts at that,
[00:36:23.200] you know,
[00:36:24.160] >> but that's what the average person can
[00:36:26.320] do. If you're a scientist, look at it
[00:36:28.560] from a scientific perspective. If you're
[00:36:29.839] a philosopher, look at it from a
[00:36:31.119] philosophic perspective. teach it, pass
[00:36:33.200] it on, show people your curiosity, and
[00:36:35.200] they'll be weaponized just like you and
[00:36:36.720] me. Jesse,
[00:36:38.000] >> let's go.
[00:36:38.800] >> Yeah.
[00:36:39.200] >> Um, I want to talk about how you got
[00:36:41.359] into UFOs, which is described very well
[00:36:43.520] in this new movie, Sleeping Dog.
[00:36:45.680] >> The first person that that I ever
[00:36:48.720] pointed a camera at and was like, "Oh,
[00:36:51.359] [ __ ] It's like a Rubik's cube." You
[00:36:53.119] know, I got to I got to I got to get
[00:36:54.880] this person talking. It's really hard.
[00:36:56.720] Was John Lear. It started uh where a lot
[00:37:00.320] of people have to start with UFOs, which
[00:37:02.079] is you have to start with the the widest
[00:37:04.400] possible filter. And for you, that was
[00:37:06.880] embodied in a man named John Lear.
[00:37:09.280] >> He taught me how to keep my mind open
[00:37:12.480] but not let my marbles fall out because
[00:37:15.040] he he was spilling marbles sometimes.
[00:37:16.960] And it was I'm going to crack a beer for
[00:37:18.720] this part. I wanted to have a a drink
[00:37:20.960] with Jesse. He's got water cuz he's an
[00:37:22.560] alien.
[00:37:24.240] There's my beer.
[00:37:28.800] So, I like you. I'm not going to repeat
[00:37:31.359] what people can watch in a movie, right?
[00:37:34.320] I like you. I think like everybody who
[00:37:37.920] gets interested in something other than
[00:37:40.880] themselves, you know, um they look
[00:37:44.400] outward
[00:37:46.480] and the ancient Greeks used to say that
[00:37:49.440] the stars were
[00:37:52.079] pin pricks from the beaks of
[00:37:54.000] hummingbirds.
[00:37:55.599] So, that was a beautiful cosmology. And
[00:37:58.000] then all of a sudden, science stepped in
[00:37:59.119] and goes, "Actually, it's [ __ ] cooler
[00:38:00.880] than that, right?
[00:38:02.320] >> That sounds cooler than science to me."
[00:38:04.320] >> No, I don't know. I I the orbiting
[00:38:05.920] planets, galaxies. I'm Come on.
[00:38:07.520] >> I'm going to take the beaks of
[00:38:08.640] hummingbird pinprints, but
[00:38:10.240] >> Okay, so I love hummingbirds, man.
[00:38:12.880] They're [ __ ] fantastic.
[00:38:13.680] >> They're amazing.
[00:38:14.560] >> What they can do. Anyway, um, so I got
[00:38:19.200] curious
[00:38:21.200] and I've said this before, you know, I
[00:38:23.440] heard
[00:38:25.599] George Knap's voice interviewing a guy
[00:38:27.280] named Bob Lazar on the radio.
[00:38:30.800] They were replaying it on one station,
[00:38:33.040] probably K Rock or something. I was a
[00:38:34.320] dumbass kid. I don't know what station,
[00:38:35.599] you know, I wasn't really tuned in to
[00:38:37.359] the whole Coast to Coast thing. I was 13
[00:38:40.000] and something really happened to me that
[00:38:42.720] day and I I people make jokes when I say
[00:38:45.280] my my curiosity was weaponized. So I
[00:38:46.880] started making jokes. It's like when
[00:38:47.920] people call me you know [ __ ] you forname
[00:38:49.520] online. My family all now calls me
[00:38:51.119] forname. It's like you have to embrace
[00:38:53.440] the thing right.
[00:38:54.960] >> So what I embraced in that moment is
[00:38:57.920] that Babazar said it's not a reactionary
[00:39:02.000] propulsion system.
[00:39:04.160] It's a I think he said it's a field
[00:39:06.480] propulsion system.
[00:39:08.560] you're falling where you need to get,
[00:39:11.680] >> which is the story of my life
[00:39:13.440] >> actually, which is hilarious, but you're
[00:39:15.119] like falling to it. And that just like
[00:39:17.200] flipped this switch in me and I was
[00:39:19.520] like, "Holy [ __ ] if what he's saying is
[00:39:23.040] true about travel, then distance no
[00:39:26.960] longer matters." cuz everybody told me
[00:39:29.200] um I wasn't into UFOs and stuff but when
[00:39:31.839] it came up when you're a young kid it's
[00:39:34.000] like all the scientists like the Neil
[00:39:36.240] Degrass Tyson well there's no way life
[00:39:38.240] is probably way out in the universe but
[00:39:40.400] don't be silly they can't be coming here
[00:39:42.960] the distances are so vast you'd have to
[00:39:44.800] travel the speed of light almost for 36
[00:39:47.839] years to get to our closest planet all
[00:39:49.359] this [ __ ] and I thought damn they
[00:39:51.599] really got it figured out unless Lazar
[00:39:54.880] was right so I was like because from
[00:39:56.800] rockets to roller skates. It's um push
[00:39:59.200] something out the back, you go forward
[00:40:00.800] called reactionary propulsion system. So
[00:40:02.720] all of a sudden if you're falling into
[00:40:05.440] time space, distance is irrelevant. And
[00:40:08.960] I was sitting there as a dumbass kid
[00:40:10.480] thinking, "Oh my god, is this guy
[00:40:11.920] telling the truth?"
[00:40:12.960] >> That's what I was thinking cuz I thought
[00:40:14.320] then obviously it's not hummingbirds.
[00:40:17.040] Obviously, there are tons of planets
[00:40:20.480] that are in the Goldilock zones in these
[00:40:23.520] hundreds of billions of galaxies, not
[00:40:27.119] just our galaxy. And I'm like, is he
[00:40:29.040] telling the truth? And then I went and,
[00:40:31.040] you know, just like met up with my
[00:40:32.560] girlfriend, started doing jiu-jitsu more
[00:40:34.000] and like just dropped it like it's hot.
[00:40:35.920] But I never forgot that moment, that
[00:40:38.800] feeling. It taught me that authority is
[00:40:43.040] something we bestow upon people, not
[00:40:45.520] something that they truly are. They can
[00:40:47.839] have more knowledge than you. That's
[00:40:49.119] what the word sensei means. Is born
[00:40:51.440] before. Knowledge in you is born before
[00:40:54.480] knowledge in me. So you're my sensei at
[00:40:57.520] >> this. Right? So everybody's teaching
[00:40:59.599] each other. Um a sensei is somebody that
[00:41:04.480] he has or she has certain knowledge
[00:41:06.720] that's born before. you pass it on one
[00:41:08.880] generation otherwise and it's gone cuz
[00:41:12.400] it's a physical art. It's not written
[00:41:13.920] down. It's transmitted physically. You
[00:41:15.599] have to actually choke someone out,
[00:41:17.119] right? So, so to to just back up cuz I
[00:41:20.240] get so excited about this moment. I feel
[00:41:22.319] it as if it was yesterday. Um
[00:41:26.160] that's how it really got started.
[00:41:29.200] But I was a kid. I was sure I was just
[00:41:33.119] going to do the martial athletics thing
[00:41:34.800] my whole life. I didn't think I was
[00:41:37.520] smart enough to do other things. And
[00:41:39.520] then I thought, well, maybe I am, but
[00:41:40.960] this is what I like doing. So, I'm going
[00:41:43.119] to do what I like cuz if I do what I
[00:41:44.640] like, I'm going to get good at it cuz
[00:41:46.240] I'm going to practice it 10,000 times.
[00:41:49.520] Then all hell broke loose. And this is
[00:41:52.160] what you were talking about.
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[00:42:48.960] That's jesse j ssetore.com.
[00:42:53.119] Please support our show and tell them we
[00:42:55.200] sent you.
[00:42:57.280] because of an illness, I couldn't
[00:42:59.520] physically train. So, I said, "What am I
[00:43:01.520] interested in?" Fell into art. Fell into
[00:43:04.079] then getting a camera. That was cool to
[00:43:07.119] see that you did the that Sharon Tate
[00:43:09.119] exhibit. That was so that was amazing. I
[00:43:11.440] I like didn't realize how deep and rich
[00:43:14.480] of an art background that you had. And
[00:43:16.560] and then that was kind of an expression
[00:43:18.240] of the pain of the illness that you fell
[00:43:20.720] into.
[00:43:21.040] >> Dude, you learned that from the movie.
[00:43:22.720] >> Yeah.
[00:43:23.200] >> [ __ ] I I did.
[00:43:24.319] >> Okay. And it really the movie is really
[00:43:26.000] good and I recommend everybody watch it
[00:43:27.599] because it really
[00:43:28.880] >> it helped me understand your psychology
[00:43:32.400] >> and where you're coming from, what
[00:43:34.319] you're motivated by.
[00:43:36.079] >> And I think uh UFO Space now, you know,
[00:43:39.040] I didn't I didn't need that from the
[00:43:40.400] movie cuz we've gotten to know each
[00:43:41.599] other.
[00:43:42.160] >> But UFO Space can be a hall of mirrors.
[00:43:43.839] And if somebody doesn't know you
[00:43:45.440] personally, I think uh it's a really
[00:43:47.599] good way to kind of get to know you.
[00:43:49.119] >> That's what that's what the kid sold me
[00:43:50.560] on, you know, that and the self-defense
[00:43:52.079] mechanism of showing my personal life.
[00:43:54.000] But um yeah, but I think that moment you
[00:43:56.960] were talking about was Okay, I've got
[00:44:00.480] this camera. First time I pointed it at
[00:44:02.800] somebody, they spilled the beans. It was
[00:44:05.040] my grandmother, right? And she told me a
[00:44:08.000] story about my family that she had kept
[00:44:09.839] hidden from everybody and she was like
[00:44:11.680] 90 or something. And I recorded it. I'm
[00:44:13.839] like, "Holy shit." So I pointed it at
[00:44:18.240] John Lear because I was like, who can I
[00:44:21.040] get to that seems to have these wild
[00:44:24.720] ideas say crazy? He wasn't crazy at all.
[00:44:27.440] Very sane man. You know, CIA pilot did
[00:44:29.599] some incredible stuff. One of the
[00:44:30.560] youngest people ever to climb the Matter
[00:44:31.920] Horn. The dude has had so many life
[00:44:34.000] experiences people don't know.
[00:44:35.200] >> Won a bunch of flight records as well.
[00:44:37.119] Like really amazing esteemed pilot,
[00:44:39.520] >> bro. So he called me back finally
[00:44:44.160] and it was so like come over Las Vegas,
[00:44:47.680] Nevada. Y'all will be here. It was the
[00:44:49.200] weirdest call and I [ __ ] packed my
[00:44:51.359] bags and I looked at my wife and there's
[00:44:53.040] a scene in the movie I know the kid my
[00:44:54.800] voice is a horse. That was after that
[00:44:57.440] first trip.
[00:44:58.640] >> The first thing I Michael just I said
[00:45:00.480] when you make it when you tell this
[00:45:02.079] story don't put anything visually out of
[00:45:04.240] order to say it exactly like it
[00:45:05.760] happened. first time I rolled up to to
[00:45:07.359] his gate filming it like that's all real
[00:45:10.160] exactly in the order it happened. So
[00:45:12.640] because of his openness to me
[00:45:16.400] I mean he didn't tell me [ __ ] about UFOs
[00:45:17.920] at first but he was testing me right but
[00:45:20.560] um that's how it started and then I
[00:45:23.040] would just see these these floods of
[00:45:24.720] people over the years just come into his
[00:45:27.520] house. He'd let everybody in. They tell
[00:45:30.319] sometimes the craziest and you could
[00:45:32.240] tell they weren't wrapped so tight
[00:45:34.400] stories and he just listened like like
[00:45:36.880] he cared because he did care. And then
[00:45:39.920] other people come in and they were CIA,
[00:45:42.079] FBI, NSA, um amazing pilots. I mean just
[00:45:46.160] all these people, this world of people
[00:45:48.079] that I would never have had contact with
[00:45:49.920] because I had a camera. They would talk
[00:45:52.560] with me. It look they mistook me as a
[00:45:55.280] authority figure with that camera. But
[00:45:57.440] but what John did was he had no filter
[00:46:01.200] and that's the trap.
[00:46:03.440] >> The trap is you belief
[00:46:07.040] and actual functional reality start to
[00:46:09.040] blur when you have heard it all.
[00:46:12.000] >> Yeah.
[00:46:12.640] >> He did start talking about soul catchers
[00:46:15.040] on the moon and all.
[00:46:16.800] >> I can't I can't verify his craziest
[00:46:19.440] theor his his wildest theory.
[00:46:21.440] >> Yeah.
[00:46:21.920] >> I can't verify.
[00:46:23.040] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, what did he
[00:46:25.760] tell you that did check? Because I think
[00:46:27.839] it's important to caveat about him. He
[00:46:30.400] broke the F-17 to George Knap. He
[00:46:33.599] actually knew a lot about advanced
[00:46:35.599] aviation well ahead of anybody in the
[00:46:38.560] kind of civilian world and was kind of,
[00:46:40.640] you know, hanging out at Dreamland at
[00:46:42.079] Area 51 before anybody knew it was even
[00:46:43.920] real. So, he definitely knew some real
[00:46:46.000] stuff. Bro, I have original photographs
[00:46:51.200] from 1977
[00:46:55.200] Groom Lake
[00:46:58.319] level with a chain going across.
[00:47:02.640] John Lear drove out there many times
[00:47:06.480] back in the day when security was
[00:47:08.240] different. He came I I I'll show you the
[00:47:11.200] photographs. It's amazing. He wrote to
[00:47:13.520] me, "Let's It's Groom Lake, you [ __ ]
[00:47:16.720] Let's go Wednesday because Wednesday was
[00:47:18.400] the famous night nights they would fly
[00:47:20.560] the sport model. So what he did was he
[00:47:24.160] sat there drinking beers on the back of
[00:47:25.680] his pickup truck with a buddy of his who
[00:47:27.119] I know and he snapped a bunch of photos
[00:47:31.599] in a row of Groom Lake at lake level.
[00:47:34.319] You've never seen a photo like this
[00:47:36.319] before unless I put it out or lear I
[00:47:38.560] don't know if it's leaked online but
[00:47:40.240] I'll I'll give you a print. Wow. Then
[00:47:42.720] what he did because it's John [ __ ]
[00:47:44.400] Lar and he's so and they knew his dad
[00:47:46.160] William P. Lear, inventor of the
[00:47:47.839] Learjet, Learjet, Atrack stereo, became
[00:47:51.359] Motraola, his company, the whole crazy
[00:47:53.520] [ __ ] Worked on some amazing stuff with
[00:47:56.560] people that you talk about sometimes. By
[00:47:58.400] the way,
[00:47:58.960] >> and Brown,
[00:47:59.760] >> not saying [ __ ] you're going to talk
[00:48:01.040] about what you know will be you be my
[00:48:03.119] sensei on that. So, what he does cuz
[00:48:06.000] he's so John Lair. He takes his
[00:48:07.839] panorama. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
[00:48:09.920] He sees the dust trails in the desert.
[00:48:11.839] You see the dust trails of the What the
[00:48:13.440] [ __ ] is this guy doing out there?
[00:48:14.560] daylight sitting on the back of
[00:48:15.760] tailgating with a beer. Right.
[00:48:18.319] He takes the 35mm film thing out of the
[00:48:22.480] camera, hides it under his ashtray,
[00:48:26.160] puts in another, does an identical set
[00:48:28.000] of photos, and when they came, they
[00:48:30.079] said, "John, okay, well, you can't be
[00:48:32.720] here." And you know, get we're
[00:48:34.240] confiscating the camera. He goes, "No,
[00:48:35.359] it's my camera. We're taking the film."
[00:48:37.040] They took the film and left. John drives
[00:48:40.640] home.
[00:48:42.000] That's how I have a photo of Groom Lake
[00:48:44.000] at lake level with a chain that I will
[00:48:45.599] give you a print of.
[00:48:46.559] >> Whoa. Crazy. The 77. What? 19. That was
[00:48:50.319] the year I was born.
[00:48:51.680] >> Oh my god.
[00:48:52.480] >> He did that.
[00:48:53.520] >> That's crazy.
[00:48:54.800] >> But what did he tell me that was true?
[00:48:58.400] >> He did break the story of the stealth
[00:49:01.599] fighter, but it was Ned Day. It was
[00:49:03.760] George Knap's um mentor in journalism.
[00:49:07.440] Shout out to Ned Day. Big sip here.
[00:49:09.920] Shout out to Ned.
[00:49:11.119] >> Mhm.
[00:49:12.640] >> I've learned about Ned from George.
[00:49:15.200] >> So,
[00:49:17.760] John had some credibility.
[00:49:20.880] He also knew a lot about CIA operations
[00:49:24.800] in the um when they were flying drugs
[00:49:27.680] cuz he'd never ask what's what was in
[00:49:29.280] his flight. He'd fly anywhere at any
[00:49:30.880] time. And he gave me all these like this
[00:49:32.400] footage of him going in like these tiny
[00:49:34.079] little runways made of dirt flying for
[00:49:36.079] the CIA.
[00:49:36.960] >> Little Ron Contra situation. He was
[00:49:38.800] moving drugs a lot of the time.
[00:49:41.280] >> He says, "I don't know. I'm just a bus
[00:49:42.720] driver." You know,
[00:49:43.839] >> there's a famous photo of him with G.
[00:49:45.680] Gordon Litty and like you've got you're
[00:49:47.839] like who this guy's in with like the
[00:49:49.760] spookiest of spooks,
[00:49:51.200] >> right? And that's why people think
[00:49:52.960] people would try to influence him in the
[00:49:54.880] negative ways and maybe they did, but
[00:49:57.280] most people like me loved. There's
[00:49:59.440] something about John Lair. He had a
[00:50:00.960] laugh. I've only heard one other human
[00:50:02.960] being on planet Earth. And one day I
[00:50:04.640] hope to achieve this laugh. It is the
[00:50:06.960] most joyous belly laughing almost like
[00:50:12.240] wink at the same time. You're on to
[00:50:14.880] something. You're on to something. It's
[00:50:17.119] this is this really inspiring laugh.
[00:50:19.440] >> Um so he rolled deep with some people.
[00:50:22.000] So he verifi verifiably gave good
[00:50:25.359] evidence um about a whole bunch of
[00:50:28.240] terrestrial stuff to the news station in
[00:50:30.240] Las Vegas at Kas. He had credibility
[00:50:32.319] there. he was running for senator or
[00:50:34.480] state senator at the time or something.
[00:50:36.640] Um, and then he walks in with this UFO
[00:50:39.200] madness and nobody Ned Day, George's
[00:50:43.680] mentor, he said, I think he said, "If if
[00:50:46.319] this was true, I would have already
[00:50:48.559] known about it, John."
[00:50:50.720] >> George is like peeking over as like a
[00:50:52.400] young reporter, you know, and he's like,
[00:50:54.240] "Hey, John, I I'll check out the files."
[00:50:56.960] And that's how it started. So that's why
[00:50:59.440] Did I answer your question?
[00:51:00.720] >> You did. Sometimes people say I don't
[00:51:02.480] answer questions. I'm just pumped.
[00:51:03.760] >> No, that was a thorough answer. Describe
[00:51:06.400] your first time meeting Bob Lazar.
[00:51:08.960] >> Oh wow.
[00:51:13.359] You know what that's like.
[00:51:15.520] >> I now am It's so surreal. I mean, I'm
[00:51:18.720] honored to have had that experience
[00:51:20.400] myself.
[00:51:20.800] >> It teaches you a lot. You use the word
[00:51:22.319] honored a lot. Like um you know how we
[00:51:23.680] all have the same amount of time so
[00:51:26.400] people choose if they want to spend it
[00:51:27.839] together, right? It should always be an
[00:51:29.280] honor with somebody you're hanging with
[00:51:31.359] because you're both choosing in spaceime
[00:51:33.359] with limited amount of life. But anyway,
[00:51:35.440] so first time meeting Bob Lazar. Well,
[00:51:38.559] first of all, reverse the tape. You know
[00:51:41.280] that I wanted to know if he's a liar or
[00:51:43.359] not. That was the only thing I wanted to
[00:51:45.760] know. If he was not a liar, then I mean
[00:51:49.520] it's so like then distance doesn't
[00:51:52.480] matter. That's in my brain. Caveman
[00:51:54.240] brain. That's what I thought. I want to
[00:51:55.359] know he's a liar because the distance
[00:51:56.559] doesn't matter. That's my line of
[00:51:58.720] thinking. So, John kept telling me that
[00:52:02.079] George Knapp won't talk to anybody cuz I
[00:52:03.920] was trying for years to get to George.
[00:52:05.520] Um Bob Lazar, there's no way. Um but he
[00:52:09.280] does, you know, John John always wanted
[00:52:11.040] him to come for like a birthday party
[00:52:12.720] his always had these big birthday
[00:52:14.079] parties. Really wanted to brag that
[00:52:15.839] Lazar was his friend, right? So he kept
[00:52:18.079] kind of telling me, you know, maybe
[00:52:22.240] Lazar will show up this year. And I'm
[00:52:24.079] always like [ __ ] call him then, you
[00:52:25.440] know? I'm like, I would love to just No
[00:52:27.520] cameras at a So, what happened was
[00:52:29.280] answer your question.
[00:52:31.440] One day I'm just filming with John like
[00:52:35.119] I did every day for years or every week
[00:52:38.160] at least. I'd go out there every two
[00:52:39.599] weeks. So,
[00:52:42.000] oh god, what happened? Oh, and he goes,
[00:52:44.000] "Lazar's coming over." The first thing
[00:52:45.440] he says to me, I go, "Oh shit." Cuz I
[00:52:47.920] got my cameras already all set up. We're
[00:52:49.760] doing our daily thing.
[00:52:51.760] >> How wellknown was Bob at the time?
[00:52:54.000] >> Right. See, it's very different now.
[00:52:55.440] >> Yeah,
[00:52:55.760] >> it's very different. So niche,
[00:52:58.960] >> right?
[00:52:59.520] >> So like nobody knew his name unless
[00:53:02.800] you're a UFO nerd on the parinet that
[00:53:05.119] called it, right? So like a very popular
[00:53:07.280] city councilman or something like
[00:53:10.720] less than that. But in UFO land, sure,
[00:53:13.680] >> he was UFO Jesus, you know, he was the
[00:53:16.559] Messiah, you know, the the unwanted. He
[00:53:19.839] like he didn't want the attention. is
[00:53:21.359] like the weirdest conundrum of a guy. I
[00:53:24.079] called him the the Bigfooted UFOs. Is he
[00:53:26.720] Is he real? Does he even really exist?
[00:53:28.960] So, my first experience meeting him was
[00:53:31.760] like, first I go total respect mode. I'm
[00:53:34.079] like, I can't I'm not even a filmmaker,
[00:53:35.920] never made a film, putting away all the
[00:53:37.599] cameras. I don't want him to feel like
[00:53:38.640] he's walking into a bear trap. And I'm
[00:53:40.319] like, John, just talk with your friend.
[00:53:42.240] But I knew that all that was out there
[00:53:45.280] were these tiny little clips of him,
[00:53:48.559] these small little hard to find
[00:53:50.240] interviews, and that the majority, 99%
[00:53:53.839] of what you read by getting to know Le
[00:53:56.079] and all this, it wasn't true. So, here's
[00:53:58.559] my pitch. He comes in. I'm just looking
[00:54:00.559] at him, you know, um, really good to
[00:54:02.720] meet you. Yeah, I'm making a movie. Uh,
[00:54:05.200] I think um,
[00:54:07.680] Bob,
[00:54:09.200] when I got a respectful moment of
[00:54:11.040] silence, Bob, um, I don't know if you're
[00:54:13.920] telling the truth, but I do know from
[00:54:16.960] knowing John, the entire world within
[00:54:20.400] this UFO
[00:54:22.319] little silo is saying things that aren't
[00:54:25.040] true about you. and and 3 minutes of you
[00:54:27.359] talking would completely change the
[00:54:30.640] dynamic of um the ratio of what people
[00:54:34.160] know because it's just not out there.
[00:54:37.040] Do you mind if I push record and ask you
[00:54:39.520] a couple questions about UFOs? And
[00:54:41.920] that's when you see that footage and he
[00:54:46.480] just unloaded.
[00:54:48.720] >> I know there are alien craft here from
[00:54:52.079] another planet. I now I saw other ones,
[00:54:54.800] but I was inside one. I know it was not
[00:54:57.440] made on Earth. I know it was made with
[00:54:59.520] materials that we cannot fabricate. We
[00:55:02.240] cannot duplicate and we've never been
[00:55:04.160] able to. I know it uses a power source
[00:55:06.319] that's so advanced that we could only
[00:55:09.040] dream of something along those lines.
[00:55:11.119] And the energy density on it is
[00:55:12.880] phenomenal.
[00:55:13.599] >> And I and I was just looking at him
[00:55:15.200] like, "Holy fuck."
[00:55:17.839] First time you ever hear him like, "Fuck
[00:55:20.800] the noise.
[00:55:23.040] So, so, so I thank him. He sits down
[00:55:25.119] with Lear. I never release this footage.
[00:55:27.359] Michael put it in the movie because I
[00:55:28.480] gave him 20 years of my footage and he
[00:55:30.079] just used it and it's he's with Lear and
[00:55:32.960] he's arguing with Lear about Lear's
[00:55:35.520] crazy ideas, right? And and and so you
[00:55:39.200] see Bob all the way back then being like
[00:55:42.000] the rational
[00:55:43.839] dude. The grays were controlling the
[00:55:46.640] soul sucker on the moon and when you die
[00:55:48.400] it sucks up your soul and it gets
[00:55:49.839] reprocessed. Unless the grays steal it.
[00:55:52.319] I mean, come on, John. What the what the
[00:55:55.440] [ __ ]
[00:55:56.000] >> And it just it just it just what it was
[00:55:58.720] like was like, "Okay, now I really got
[00:56:02.799] to find out."
[00:56:03.839] >> Well, he's he's a walking mind [ __ ]
[00:56:06.400] because he
[00:56:07.520] >> Well, that's a cool term.
[00:56:08.799] >> It is. cuz you I so I have the same
[00:56:11.200] motivation as you and as you know and I
[00:56:13.200] and and I you know as of a few years ago
[00:56:17.599] probably netted out more skeptical than
[00:56:20.400] believer when it came to his story. Not
[00:56:23.440] necessarily the like surface level
[00:56:25.280] details but I thought maybe there was
[00:56:26.640] sort of like a cover for something else
[00:56:28.160] or something.
[00:56:28.799] >> How do you know the information is all
[00:56:30.079] that you whatever information you have
[00:56:31.680] you have to base your assessment
[00:56:33.040] >> 100%. And I at the, you know, at the
[00:56:34.880] time and even now have immense respect
[00:56:37.119] for Jacques Ble, sort of godfather of
[00:56:39.599] UFO research. And he had said some
[00:56:41.200] negative things. I pushed him on it once
[00:56:43.280] at my ranch alone. He and me were
[00:56:45.760] sitting there and I love him with all my
[00:56:47.599] heart. This is nothing negative, but I
[00:56:49.040] pushed him. I don't want to get into it,
[00:56:50.640] but like what where did that come from
[00:56:52.400] specifically? Why do you say that? How
[00:56:54.240] do you know that? Do you know that? Are
[00:56:55.520] you just saying that? And I'm just
[00:56:56.960] saying,
[00:56:57.520] >> yeah,
[00:56:57.839] >> we are friends,
[00:56:59.280] >> but I stick with I stick where I stand
[00:57:01.440] on that one.
[00:57:02.079] >> Okay. It wasn't compelling, but but
[00:57:05.440] dude, he's incredible and everything
[00:57:07.359] else
[00:57:08.240] >> is compelling. But that that idea of
[00:57:10.400] belie
[00:57:10.720] >> but you stress you wanted to know where
[00:57:12.559] he was coming from. You felt
[00:57:14.079] >> is there something I don't know,
[00:57:16.000] >> right?
[00:57:16.400] >> Tell me. I knew where it all came from.
[00:57:18.799] The I know exactly specifically who it
[00:57:21.040] came from, why they said it, what their
[00:57:23.839] secondhand knowledge is that all in the
[00:57:25.680] scientific world they start spreading
[00:57:27.680] around that somehow. So, you know that
[00:57:30.319] he's a marriionette, you know,
[00:57:32.319] >> right? He's some sort of MK Ultra like
[00:57:34.400] he
[00:57:34.799] >> [ __ ]
[00:57:35.599] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[00:57:36.480] >> But but I I I do want to address one
[00:57:38.319] thing, which is that I did have and do
[00:57:41.599] have a secret, and that's for me. And
[00:57:44.960] what that is is why I knew that Bob
[00:57:48.720] Lazar was telling it as it is. Meaning a
[00:57:53.680] facility like that exists, exactly
[00:57:56.400] what's inside of it exists. I wanted to
[00:57:59.119] find out if Lazar was actually there and
[00:58:01.200] saw it for his own eyes or if he was
[00:58:03.200] lying and being used as a marionette. So
[00:58:05.680] that day I knew for the first time cuz I
[00:58:09.200] asked him certain questions. I knew that
[00:58:12.240] it was worthy of deep deep deep
[00:58:14.720] investigation. It took me
[00:58:16.079] >> So you already knew about the existence
[00:58:18.160] of S4.
[00:58:18.880] >> I say that in I say that in the movie
[00:58:21.440] that there was a lot of people knew
[00:58:23.440] about the existence of S4 theoretically.
[00:58:26.079] >> Uhhuh. What I'm trying to
[00:58:28.000] >> It sounds like you had a pretty good
[00:58:28.960] source.
[00:58:29.280] >> What I'm What I'm trying to do is go as
[00:58:31.119] far as I can, but we have to respect one
[00:58:33.680] thing as a journalist. When someone says
[00:58:36.240] to you, um,
[00:58:40.240] this is my this is for you to know, not
[00:58:43.520] to say. If you break that one [ __ ]
[00:58:46.559] time, you're done.
[00:58:47.839] >> Yeah.
[00:58:48.160] >> Nobody will ever trust you. And it's so
[00:58:50.240] tempting sometimes.
[00:58:51.440] >> I'm just trying to say as cleanly. I'm
[00:58:53.040] not being oblique. I'm like, you know,
[00:58:55.200] it's a bright room. Sunglasses off. I'm
[00:58:57.839] trying to tell you what I can while
[00:59:02.319] respecting my oath.
[00:59:05.280] >> Yeah, of course.
[00:59:06.480] >> And that is that I didn't go.
[00:59:08.880] >> You had good reason to believe.
[00:59:10.160] >> Yes. I was I had very solid good reason
[00:59:15.520] >> to know that Lazar was correct. Now, was
[00:59:20.240] he there? Right? Was he there? And did
[00:59:22.640] he see it? You know, cuz that's another
[00:59:24.160] trick that's played when you're spilling
[00:59:25.760] information, like use people as
[00:59:27.520] emissaries to propagate a truth or a
[00:59:30.079] lie. So, I hope I explained that to the
[00:59:32.720] satisfaction of your amazing and
[00:59:34.240] beautiful audience. And you know, that's
[00:59:36.240] that I had cause to want to bullet test
[00:59:40.160] Lazar. And then meeting him was the
[00:59:42.640] first step to me saying, "Okay, this guy
[00:59:46.400] is not a liar, but I need to really find
[00:59:49.680] out."
[00:59:51.520] Legend has it that in 1943, the Navy
[00:59:54.400] tried to teleport a ship in what's known
[00:59:57.119] as the Philadelphia experiment, and it
[00:59:59.680] worked. Sort of. It disappeared,
[01:00:02.319] reappeared, and then half the crew got
[01:00:04.640] atomically fused into the ship's walls.
[01:00:07.200] Others just vanished. No one was where
[01:00:10.240] they were supposed to be. Talk about a
[01:00:12.559] breakdown in communication.
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[01:01:41.680] this guy is not a liar, but I need to
[01:01:44.720] really find out.
[01:01:46.640] >> Yeah. And I think something I want to
[01:01:49.280] talk to you about um is is the fact that
[01:01:52.400] you really corroborated his presence at
[01:01:55.839] S4 Area 51 because you
[01:01:57.839] >> you spoke to some other people that one
[01:02:01.520] of the pilots that flew um
[01:02:03.920] >> the Blackbird,
[01:02:05.520] >> really cool [ __ ] plane. Um, yeah. I
[01:02:08.400] mean, look, in so many ways, not public,
[01:02:11.359] but also public. I got one dude on
[01:02:13.599] Ancient Aliens to give his testimony
[01:02:15.760] that, you know, he saw Lazar there, you
[01:02:18.160] know,
[01:02:18.480] >> wild.
[01:02:19.040] >> Yeah. Getting off getting on a bus. So,
[01:02:20.960] it doesn't prove flying saucers, but it
[01:02:22.880] proves Lazar was there. He was there.
[01:02:24.799] Yeah.
[01:02:25.040] >> Oh, dude. There's so many things like
[01:02:26.240] that. That's that's what I always say
[01:02:28.880] when people are like, "Do you believe
[01:02:30.480] him?" I'm like, I 100% at this point
[01:02:33.760] think he was there and I 100% think S4
[01:02:35.920] exists and then I'm high probability on
[01:02:38.720] the story, you know, but like I can't I
[01:02:41.599] can't say I'm 100%, you know, but after
[01:02:44.559] spending time with him, why I say he's a
[01:02:47.119] walking mind [ __ ] is I asked him all my
[01:02:49.839] most skeptical questions and the dude
[01:02:51.920] didn't bat an eye. He was cool with me
[01:02:54.160] just hurling everything. And to him,
[01:02:56.400] he's probably annoyed, right? cuz he
[01:02:57.920] hears all these things adn nauseium and
[01:02:59.839] this is like you know one of his last
[01:03:01.440] kind of media tour. Maybe he does
[01:03:02.799] something else but as you know he hates
[01:03:04.319] media and he's just getting like all
[01:03:07.040] these skeptical questions thrown at him
[01:03:09.359] from this kid he just met and uh and he
[01:03:12.880] was handled all of them gracefully and
[01:03:15.280] he's a great uh he's a great human being
[01:03:17.760] and he's a fighter. People don't know
[01:03:19.119] that like he is he's very strong. Um he
[01:03:22.799] he does he just doesn't want uh more
[01:03:24.880] drama in his life and he doesn't want to
[01:03:27.119] cause more pain which I can relate to to
[01:03:28.880] his family to his beautiful wife and all
[01:03:31.599] animal
[01:03:31.920] >> he's had five heart attacks too since
[01:03:34.319] >> you allowed to say that
[01:03:35.359] >> yeah it was on it was on our episode he
[01:03:37.359] talked about it publicly
[01:03:38.640] >> okay so yeah there's a lot of person
[01:03:41.200] >> he said it's just from stress he said
[01:03:42.480] his arteries are clear I've had five
[01:03:44.640] heart attacks from stress
[01:03:45.680] >> and and other things from stress and um
[01:03:48.799] look man I I really try to keep the
[01:03:50.480] personal stuff away because I've had
[01:03:52.480] problems with that. Um, but there was
[01:03:55.359] something in what you said. Um, just
[01:03:57.599] kind of meeting him, it's it's not good
[01:03:58.960] enough to say, well, I met him and I can
[01:04:01.119] tell he's he's he's not a liar. No, I
[01:04:03.119] wanted tangible actual actual proof, you
[01:04:06.000] know, and oh yeah, I found that. And so
[01:04:10.880] the question then becomes, do you
[01:04:12.960] protect this guy? Do you blow up his
[01:04:14.480] life? Dude, I started making the movie.
[01:04:17.200] Um, here's what happened. I never sign
[01:04:20.079] anything with anybody and I don't make
[01:04:21.520] them do it. Right? So, I show Lazar the
[01:04:25.359] movie and I go, "Look, here's the deal,
[01:04:26.960] man.
[01:04:28.559] I'm not a filmmaker, but this is I I
[01:04:33.200] want people to see who you are. It's not
[01:04:35.200] about proving anything. I just want them
[01:04:38.319] to see what how I've gotten to know you
[01:04:40.880] after all these years, right? We've
[01:04:43.359] become friends. You've let me in your
[01:04:46.000] life." Um, so look at it through through
[01:04:49.039] that lens. And I I I said it's a gamble
[01:04:52.400] right now. You're so terrorized by
[01:04:55.440] anytime you say something, people twist
[01:04:57.599] it and they get angry. At that time,
[01:04:59.359] Jesse, people were really angry at Bob.
[01:05:02.960] He was, you know, it was attack, attack,
[01:05:05.119] attack. Now he's like with you up on
[01:05:07.200] stage in Austin and everybody's
[01:05:08.720] cheering.
[01:05:09.680] >> Everybody loves him.
[01:05:10.559] >> But imagine the risk. So I say, look, I
[01:05:13.280] don't know if anybody's going to pick up
[01:05:14.480] this movie. I don't know, but watch it.
[01:05:18.880] Think about it. And I And you can ask
[01:05:21.280] him. I said this. I said, "If you want,
[01:05:24.799] I'll scrap the whole thing." I didn't
[01:05:27.039] have you sign anything. You know, this
[01:05:29.039] is to me, I think important.
[01:05:32.640] So, I give him the movie with his wife
[01:05:36.319] and they're the popcorn like, "Let's
[01:05:38.400] watch it." And there's like excitement
[01:05:39.920] like, "Oh, this is pretty neat." You
[01:05:41.359] know, and he'll call me right after.
[01:05:43.359] call me right after
[01:05:45.520] 24 hours goes by. Not a call.
[01:05:49.599] 48 hours. I mean, I have like the
[01:05:52.319] receipts like my butt. I thought it was
[01:05:53.760] no funny.
[01:05:55.039] >> So, I just calmed myself. I said, "Okay,
[01:05:57.920] okay. What's going to go on?" He calls
[01:06:00.160] me and he, you know, he gets that like,
[01:06:02.799] you know, he he's struggling cuz he
[01:06:04.559] knows how many years I spent and he
[01:06:06.720] knows that I'm I want to do this. I want
[01:06:10.000] the world to see this. And it was just
[01:06:12.559] like no.
[01:06:15.119] And I go, okay, well, what? So, here I
[01:06:17.599] am being calm. I can actually do that,
[01:06:20.160] by the way. I can instantaneously be
[01:06:22.160] calm, but I don't like to. So, I calm
[01:06:25.599] myself. I say, "Okay, what what what did
[01:06:28.799] you not like about the but why did you
[01:06:31.119] show?" He didn't yell, but he's like,
[01:06:32.319] "What? Why did you do this?" And I go,
[01:06:34.720] "Oh, let me walk you through why I did
[01:06:37.520] that scene. why I showed that personal
[01:06:40.880] part of your life. Oh, well that makes
[01:06:43.280] sense. Okay, I'm winning here. I'm
[01:06:46.559] winning. You know, I'm like, okay, well,
[01:06:48.720] what else? We went through the thing
[01:06:52.640] and he to his credit, he's like, okay,
[01:06:55.760] you know, you made a you made a good
[01:06:58.000] movie. I Okay. And I'm like, so that was
[01:07:02.160] the moment where the world almost didn't
[01:07:04.240] see it. And and how that would have
[01:07:05.680] changed things is that people would not
[01:07:08.960] have seen who he was as a human and he
[01:07:12.240] would have been this totem pole that you
[01:07:14.480] could just put gasoline on and light it
[01:07:16.319] on fire or worship and you should do
[01:07:18.559] neither. He'd probably be relegated to
[01:07:20.640] like deep corners of the web like like
[01:07:24.079] Reddit forums and [ __ ] like people
[01:07:26.400] wouldn't really I mean because then you
[01:07:27.920] guys went on Rogan and that is the most
[01:07:30.079] viewed Rogan episode of all time. I
[01:07:32.480] think it has like 66 or 67 million views
[01:07:35.200] or something.
[01:07:35.599] >> People hungry. People hungry for this.
[01:07:38.480] To Joe's credit, it also took an act of
[01:07:42.559] God to get Bob there. And
[01:07:45.839] >> like Joe um had asked me about my first
[01:07:48.960] film, Patient 17. He actually the first
[01:07:52.319] >> DM I ever did was Joe taught me via it
[01:07:56.880] was a it was a a public post. You
[01:07:59.119] probably find it. And I was like, I
[01:08:00.640] don't know how or something. And he
[01:08:02.240] goes, dude, you have to follow me. I'm
[01:08:04.079] like, oh. So I follow and then you
[01:08:06.160] learn. And I never sent a DM. And it was
[01:08:08.400] about patient 17. So it was like this
[01:08:10.799] weird thing. It was a movie I did
[01:08:12.559] before.
[01:08:13.200] >> I want to talk about patient 17, but
[01:08:15.599] >> and um so then Joe, to his absolute
[01:08:18.640] credit, kind of kept tabs, I think, on
[01:08:21.279] the stuff going along the way. We
[01:08:23.600] weren't friends or anything at that
[01:08:24.799] time. It was like, you know, you you
[01:08:26.960] never know where you stand. But he just
[01:08:28.799] asked me out of the blue one day how I
[01:08:32.319] remember it. He he asked me, "Can you um
[01:08:36.719] ask Bob and you guys come on the show?"
[01:08:39.440] And I don't I don't know if it was what
[01:08:41.279] the size of the show or anything. I'm
[01:08:42.480] not following I'm not tracking that
[01:08:44.080] stuff. I knew it was big though. So the
[01:08:46.640] thing is I said, "Joe, it was a phone
[01:08:48.159] call." I'm like I I'm like
[01:08:51.040] like literally a month ago, you know,
[01:08:53.279] two months ago this came out. He said he
[01:08:55.040] would do one interview. One. And I took
[01:08:57.679] him on Larry King. That was like the one
[01:08:59.600] thing he would do to promote them. Just
[01:09:01.679] sit next to me. The one thing. And I
[01:09:03.759] said, "I don't want to do that." But Joe
[01:09:05.440] said these magic words to me. He goes,
[01:09:08.239] "Can you just ask him?"
[01:09:11.920] And before I talked, I thought, "Can I?
[01:09:14.480] I can. Okay, I can." So, yes, I can.
[01:09:17.839] Absolutely. Cuz I would love it. I would
[01:09:19.440] love for him to be heard more, right?
[01:09:21.279] not just about the film, just Bob, you
[01:09:23.279] know, and and how cool have somebody
[01:09:24.960] else who can interrogate him, you know
[01:09:26.880] what I mean? And so, so then
[01:09:28.719] >> and in a long form, you know, Larry King
[01:09:30.560] was I love, you know, great great
[01:09:32.319] legend, but he's got the suspenders and
[01:09:34.560] it's like this legacy sort of format,
[01:09:36.480] you know, Rogan's natural.
[01:09:38.239] >> Yeah. Unnatural. Yeah. Rogan's got the
[01:09:39.920] long form, you know, and for people to
[01:09:42.400] build trust, that's really important.
[01:09:44.319] >> But I wasn't thinking about nothing. I
[01:09:46.239] was just like in this um world state
[01:09:48.960] where it's like UFO Vietnam and
[01:09:50.560] someone's asked me to pull this guy back
[01:09:52.560] out somewhere to go on. It was months
[01:09:54.320] after the initial movie came but right
[01:09:55.920] before Netflix got it. So basically the
[01:09:58.960] funny thing is is that um I mean it's
[01:10:02.719] hilarious. I was I was he goes he goes
[01:10:05.360] is he a disc jockey? Bob said I go Bob
[01:10:08.719] look George and I are coming out because
[01:10:10.640] we have a a premiere or a screening um
[01:10:13.840] in Michigan. So, we're coming out. Let's
[01:10:16.159] just talk about it then. So, I I
[01:10:18.159] remember texting Joe like, "Um, okay,
[01:10:20.320] I'm going to need you you to ask him
[01:10:22.320] because I've I've really tried to do all
[01:10:24.640] this stuff with Bob, you know, and I
[01:10:26.000] don't want to." And so, then there's
[01:10:27.600] this really funny phone call and George
[01:10:30.320] is standing over here and we I said,
[01:10:33.600] "Bob, just get on the phone with Joe,
[01:10:35.120] dude. He's a good dude, dude. Just get
[01:10:36.640] on the phone." Like, you can say no, but
[01:10:38.400] just hear the dude out. You know how
[01:10:39.920] people Bob, you know, fill in the voids
[01:10:42.800] on you. Just don't fill in the voids.
[01:10:44.960] And I was like, so I get him on the
[01:10:47.280] speaker phone and and Joe talks to him.
[01:10:50.880] And I remember Bob saying, "Okay, I'll
[01:10:54.880] I'll think about it." That's a win,
[01:10:57.199] right?
[01:10:58.880] I hope it works. You know, you know, I
[01:11:00.880] hope it works. I would love to see that.
[01:11:02.960] George snapped a photo at that exact
[01:11:05.040] minute. And behind us is this '8s poster
[01:11:08.239] of like John Lear's face with Lazar and
[01:11:10.719] Nap. And there's me and Bob leaning
[01:11:12.560] over. And that's the moment that really
[01:11:14.400] like Bob Lazar was about maybe to tell
[01:11:17.679] the world one more time what happened to
[01:11:20.480] him on a big ass platform and just do
[01:11:23.360] it. I mean different than a movie,
[01:11:24.960] right?
[01:11:26.080] >> And my by golly
[01:11:29.040] >> did he ever. And that episode I think
[01:11:31.840] why people loved it so much is because
[01:11:35.040] we are all starved to know the one
[01:11:38.960] thing. Is this true? M any of it, all of
[01:11:44.800] it, some of it,
[01:11:47.840] I don't know. But it was cool as [ __ ]
[01:11:51.840] >> It was cool as [ __ ] And it
[01:11:53.440] >> still got him.
[01:11:54.480] >> It was amazing.
[01:11:55.440] >> And he didn't put the bone down, right?
[01:11:57.840] >> He didn't put the bone down.
[01:12:00.239] So, you could stop there, but he's had
[01:12:03.840] on just I I get so joyous. Even if I
[01:12:07.679] don't agree with with somebody and what
[01:12:09.280] they're saying, people on there, Bob's a
[01:12:11.280] liar. I'm like, "Okay, well, I can tell
[01:12:12.560] you what you don't know." But, um, he
[01:12:16.880] he's he's brought it into a popular
[01:12:19.440] culture thing where I think a lot of us
[01:12:22.000] wouldn't exist in the same way with this
[01:12:24.480] if he didn't he he allowed the
[01:12:27.199] discussion to occur.
[01:12:28.640] >> Well, you were inextricably a big part
[01:12:31.120] of that. So, you know, I hope you just
[01:12:33.120] take that as a compliment. And
[01:12:34.960] >> I was sitting on I was sitting in the
[01:12:36.640] room.
[01:12:38.800] Um, I want to get into some other
[01:12:40.880] amazing people that you've sort of
[01:12:42.560] broken out into the public and are now
[01:12:44.560] part of the whole UFO conversation. Who
[01:12:47.760] is Dylan Borland?
[01:12:49.280] >> Okay. Do you think your audience would
[01:12:50.800] prefer if I just give you really short
[01:12:52.320] direct answers?
[01:12:53.760] >> No. I think I think they want the full
[01:12:56.560] deep I love what we're doing now, which
[01:12:58.560] is just getting into it and, you know,
[01:13:00.400] talking.
[01:13:01.120] >> Yes. No. Right.
[01:13:02.640] >> No.
[01:13:03.040] >> Okay.
[01:13:03.520] >> Yeah.
[01:13:03.840] >> Dylan Boran.
[01:13:04.640] >> That's Larry King.
[01:13:05.840] >> Okay. That is
[01:13:06.560] >> all all respect to
[01:13:07.600] >> Larry. No, he was awesome, dude. You
[01:13:09.199] know what he did? When I walk in with
[01:13:10.239] Larry King and Bob, I'm like, you know,
[01:13:12.320] nervous. But for Bob, because I'm making
[01:13:14.480] him do this thing early morning, I come
[01:13:16.640] in, Larry King looks at me and he just
[01:13:18.560] like winks at me like a 1950s like,
[01:13:21.199] "You're going to be okay, kid." But I
[01:13:23.040] wasn't the nervous one, you know? It was
[01:13:25.440] funny. He was a cool dude.
[01:13:26.800] >> He was a cool dude. Yeah.
[01:13:28.640] >> So, um, Dylan Borland. So
[01:13:32.400] friend,
[01:13:34.640] intelligent,
[01:13:36.880] balls like church bells,
[01:13:41.679] a man of faith,
[01:13:47.440] husband,
[01:13:49.760] animal, lover, and protector.
[01:13:52.800] Honest,
[01:13:55.600] nervous at times.
[01:14:02.800] endured extreme adversity. Endured
[01:14:05.520] extreme adversity.
[01:14:08.400] He doesn't have a road map cuz um other
[01:14:10.880] people got [ __ ] cleared.
[01:14:14.080] By getting stuff cleared, he would
[01:14:16.000] expose himself.
[01:14:18.480] So, he has to dance a line until they
[01:14:20.159] let him talk.
[01:14:22.239] And
[01:14:24.080] he has endured
[01:14:26.719] extreme adversity like you said and
[01:14:29.760] people don't know all that. I was just
[01:14:33.040] with him for 5 days. We were just having
[01:14:35.760] a good time at Mc Minville, you know,
[01:14:38.560] >> and I I know I I'm try to keep the
[01:14:41.120] private stuff out, but he just say he's
[01:14:43.760] very loved and has a loving relationship
[01:14:47.520] um and is an absolute
[01:14:53.199] in my assessment,
[01:14:55.920] >> honest, straightforward. He has a little
[01:14:57.920] OCD like me. Like he's like, "Did you
[01:14:59.920] lock your room?" I'm like, "I think so."
[01:15:01.040] He like ran back up to check the door,
[01:15:03.040] you know. Um, so he's afidious is the
[01:15:06.560] what I like to call it when someone's
[01:15:07.840] like, "Fidious, you know, that's who
[01:15:10.880] Dylan Borland is as a human being.
[01:15:15.120] He also
[01:15:19.679] is somebody that you should trust.
[01:15:24.000] What did he experience?
[01:15:25.840] >> Okay. That I can talk about.
[01:15:28.640] >> Mhm.
[01:15:29.760] >> Um he told you in Congress is there was
[01:15:34.159] a large triangular shaped craft that was
[01:15:37.280] near the NASA hanger. It moved over
[01:15:40.320] towards him.
[01:15:42.640] It had zero sound.
[01:15:45.679] It had electrostatic like the smell of
[01:15:48.239] rain. His phone had interference. Went
[01:15:51.920] hot, went out.
[01:15:54.320] All the classics.
[01:15:55.520] >> It was between one to two stories thick,
[01:15:57.679] equilateral triangle. I could never see
[01:15:59.840] the top of it. And the edges were 90°
[01:16:03.280] 90°.
[01:16:05.120] There were four lights in total. Uh one
[01:16:08.239] light on each corner and a larger light
[01:16:10.560] in the center. two to three times the
[01:16:12.400] size of the corner lights. The craft
[01:16:14.320] itself was this black metallic flake
[01:16:16.480] paint, but on top of the craft was this
[01:16:19.360] gold lava plasma some type of fluid
[01:16:23.760] going over and around the craft. little
[01:16:26.719] lava plasma.
[01:16:28.080] >> That was something that if I had a
[01:16:29.920] nickel
[01:16:31.199] >> for every time someone described the
[01:16:34.560] seemingly intelligent
[01:16:37.679] gold
[01:16:39.520] undulating
[01:16:41.040] hue
[01:16:43.440] >> that engineers have described to me.
[01:16:48.000] >> They can't describe the exact They're
[01:16:50.080] engineers. It really bothers them when
[01:16:51.360] they can't they don't have the words for
[01:16:52.560] something, you know, um what it made
[01:16:54.719] them feel.
[01:16:56.159] an intelligence. Now, Dylan didn't say
[01:16:58.800] that part, but I' if I had a nickel for
[01:17:00.800] every time I've heard that. So, yeah,
[01:17:02.480] that's undulating
[01:17:04.480] lava lava lamp style gold and then shoot
[01:17:10.000] straight up.
[01:17:11.920] You you'd mistake it as a star and then
[01:17:14.640] took off
[01:17:16.560] on a military base. That's what you know
[01:17:20.400] and the world really knows up till the
[01:17:22.480] very minute basically of what he
[01:17:25.199] experienced but a lot more there's a lot
[01:17:27.520] more
[01:17:27.920] >> I have direct firsthand knowledge and
[01:17:30.480] exposure to crash recovery reverse
[01:17:33.040] engineering integration of technology
[01:17:35.199] into redacted
[01:17:37.360] >> as well as the most important piece of
[01:17:39.360] technology on the planet and it's not
[01:17:41.760] the craft themselves
[01:17:44.320] >> it would be the power source
[01:17:46.880] >> you can make that assessment logist.
[01:17:49.760] >> It is your sense that that craft was
[01:17:52.159] being housed at the military base or was
[01:17:55.120] doing sort of recon from above at the
[01:17:58.800] military base or is it like anybody's
[01:18:00.880] guess and he's open to either
[01:18:03.120] interpretation?
[01:18:04.320] >> Yeah. If he doesn't know, I can't know.
[01:18:07.280] I don't know. Um it is a conundrum. What
[01:18:11.120] was it? What was it doing? Were we
[01:18:13.120] operating it? Was it ours? Is it a
[01:18:14.960] program where we utilize things? I mean,
[01:18:17.440] look, if we have that technology,
[01:18:19.040] everybody's been lying to me.
[01:18:21.199] >> So, if we have it, I I I really want us
[01:18:23.440] to have that technology. And there there
[01:18:25.360] are some arguments.
[01:18:27.199] >> You believe we have crafts. You believe
[01:18:28.719] we have crafts and saucers and hangers.
[01:18:30.800] >> Oh, no, we do. Yeah. Yeah. The But I'm
[01:18:33.199] saying I guess what I'm saying is some
[01:18:35.920] people claim that we have a modicum of
[01:18:39.120] control over them. Like even Lazar, you
[01:18:41.920] know, they gave him the impression that
[01:18:44.800] we were flying it. Obviously, it seems
[01:18:47.199] that way. Low performance test.
[01:18:49.520] >> So, these triangles, there is evidence
[01:18:51.840] that would make me think that we've done
[01:18:53.920] something like a retrofit, but it's not
[01:18:57.199] something that there's a thumbrint for
[01:18:58.880] that is easily findable. I don't think
[01:19:01.360] there is one. So, I think at best what
[01:19:04.320] we're doing, and this leads into other
[01:19:06.400] things that were told to me by an
[01:19:07.760] intelligence agency that I said for the
[01:19:09.440] first time publicly because my lawyer
[01:19:10.960] said, "Well, if they said that to you,
[01:19:13.840] you can." Dylan never said it to me.
[01:19:16.239] They did
[01:19:17.199] >> and that's well documented. So I was
[01:19:19.600] able to say three things last weekend
[01:19:21.920] that were never said before and Dylan
[01:19:24.159] couldn't answer any of them. And to to
[01:19:26.719] to get to your I'm sorry get to get to I
[01:19:30.080] think your
[01:19:30.560] >> Can you say what the intelligence agency
[01:19:32.560] said?
[01:19:33.120] >> Yeah. Yeah. I I can but then we go off
[01:19:35.120] on a whole different tangent. It's just
[01:19:37.600] broke news. It's breaking today. while
[01:19:39.280] we're doing this
[01:19:40.560] >> just high level the the
[01:19:41.760] >> Yeah, I I I can but let's just finish
[01:19:43.600] this one little triangle thing.
[01:19:45.040] >> Sure.
[01:19:45.600] >> Which is I think um
[01:19:48.719] >> there is evidence that we meaning that
[01:19:52.480] the United States
[01:19:54.640] have been able to put a non
[01:20:01.199] human power source into a constructed
[01:20:05.840] body of other craft. The problem is is
[01:20:09.360] it can't handle it. It's like putting a
[01:20:10.880] Ferrari engine in a Pinto, you know, and
[01:20:13.120] then you try to drive that fast on those
[01:20:14.719] wheels, you're dead, right? So, that's
[01:20:16.480] where I'm at at this point. The evidence
[01:20:18.400] has directed me to that that we've made
[01:20:20.960] some exploitive derivative technologies
[01:20:23.760] based on it, but the skin of the craft,
[01:20:27.120] but non-human power source, the ability
[01:20:29.199] to make it work at all. Well, even if
[01:20:32.000] you can't retrofit it onto some,
[01:20:34.000] >> but that's what it's it sounds like
[01:20:36.159] you're saying. does. So, I'm thinking
[01:20:38.880] that it just does work.
[01:20:41.280] >> Okay.
[01:20:41.760] >> And then you're trying to harness that
[01:20:44.239] and not have the wheels break off. You
[01:20:46.800] know what I'm saying? So, it's like, you
[01:20:48.640] know, you can
[01:20:49.920] >> slap it on there and
[01:20:51.199] >> slap it on there. Yeah. Exactly. Like,
[01:20:53.360] so I that's to the best of my knowledge
[01:20:56.080] >> without getting too specific and in the
[01:20:57.679] weeds for your audience, that's to the
[01:20:59.199] to the best of my knowledge.
[01:21:00.800] >> Sure.
[01:21:01.440] >> And then the three things I I said,
[01:21:04.000] >> is that what you wanted to know next?
[01:21:05.280] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I said that
[01:21:08.239] I was directly told by a lead of the
[01:21:13.280] ODNI's dig, the director's initiative,
[01:21:18.320] that Dylan Borland
[01:21:21.600] drew
[01:21:23.360] four drawings, I think it was, which was
[01:21:26.800] a lie.
[01:21:30.640] He did draw three for the ICIG because
[01:21:34.080] it was filmed.
[01:21:36.480] So why the lie? We'll talk about that.
[01:21:38.480] But
[01:21:40.400] I think it was I think it was four
[01:21:42.640] drawings is what they said. So one was
[01:21:45.600] the craft and everybody knows that
[01:21:48.000] that's just he saw it at a base doesn't
[01:21:49.760] know anything.
[01:21:51.679] But the
[01:21:53.440] ODNI
[01:21:55.040] told me that he had told them about
[01:22:00.400] Project Rubik's Cube. Now, if that is a
[01:22:04.560] classified UAP program, then nobody
[01:22:08.080] should be telling me that, especially if
[01:22:10.000] it was said in a skiff. Now, the problem
[01:22:12.480] is I already knew about it. multisource.
[01:22:17.360] I don't know the full nature of Project
[01:22:19.040] Rubik's Cube, but I think they were
[01:22:22.800] trying to entrap him to see what he had
[01:22:24.560] said to me in George in private. He had
[01:22:26.560] never said that to me, but I knew about
[01:22:28.719] it already. Multiple sourcing, right?
[01:22:31.840] >> So George and I were like, when OD and I
[01:22:34.080] told us that, we said, "You said it, not
[01:22:36.880] us."
[01:22:37.360] >> Yeah.
[01:22:38.239] >> So So he shouldn't get in trouble to be
[01:22:41.199] clear.
[01:22:41.520] >> Well, he can't.
[01:22:42.159] >> He can't.
[01:22:42.719] >> He never said it.
[01:22:43.440] >> He never said it. So, I asked him on
[01:22:44.960] stage,
[01:22:45.679] >> but his face did look down in
[01:22:47.920] >> I don't I don't know what he looked. I
[01:22:50.080] tried not to look at him. I said, "I'm
[01:22:51.280] not even gonna look at you."
[01:22:52.320] >> I wasn't trapping him either.
[01:22:54.080] >> No. Sure.
[01:22:54.719] >> You know, I called Chuck McCulla prior.
[01:22:58.239] >> Yeah.
[01:22:58.560] >> Like like earlier that morning and I
[01:23:00.480] said, "Here's the deal. You know, ODNI
[01:23:03.199] was targeting me and George and they
[01:23:05.199] were targeting us and all these
[01:23:06.639] whistleblowers and then we got proof. By
[01:23:08.480] the way, the CIA, the whole thing that
[01:23:10.639] happened in in Congress, we'll get to
[01:23:11.920] that if you want." So, they're targeting
[01:23:14.159] us, but I said, "Chuck, they told me
[01:23:16.480] about Project Rubik's Cube." And kind of
[01:23:18.719] long silence with Chuck,
[01:23:21.280] and there's two more things. And he
[01:23:22.800] goes, "Well," he goes, "You're a
[01:23:24.480] journalist. You have no They have no
[01:23:26.880] authority that if they said that to you,
[01:23:28.719] >> it's on them.
[01:23:29.600] >> That's on them." I said, "So, I can say
[01:23:31.520] it." Yeah. Can I try to get Dylan to
[01:23:34.880] confirm that? and he goes essentially as
[01:23:38.239] a lawyer, right, if he knows or doesn't
[01:23:40.480] know that he he is not in a legal
[01:23:43.040] position to admit or anything about
[01:23:46.880] that. And I said, well, I'm going to I'm
[01:23:48.560] going to ask him if you say I can say
[01:23:50.159] that on stage because I think it's
[01:23:51.600] important people now know. And I know
[01:23:54.000] Dylan can handle himself. Nothing
[01:23:55.760] pre-planned. He stood up in front of
[01:23:57.920] Congress and handled himself, right? So
[01:24:00.239] I asked him, I was told by an ODNI agent
[01:24:06.560] that Dylan
[01:24:08.960] testified
[01:24:10.560] to ICIG,
[01:24:12.719] the police of the intelligence agencies,
[01:24:15.760] that there is a UFO program and it's
[01:24:18.800] called Rubik's Cube.
[01:24:21.600] That's what he said. That's what that's
[01:24:24.000] what I heard from the ODNI,
[01:24:27.360] which they shouldn't be calling me and
[01:24:29.199] telling me what was described in this
[01:24:31.520] gift. Should they?
[01:24:33.440] >> Right. So, I'm a journalist, so I listen
[01:24:36.719] and I testify. Can you believe me? The
[01:24:38.480] daughter of a beer tattoo journalist or
[01:24:39.920] a great mentor. You don't need to
[01:24:41.120] believe me.
[01:24:42.880] Project Rubik's cube. Dylan, I'm not
[01:24:46.080] going to look at you. Have you have you
[01:24:48.719] ever testified to ICIG about a UAP
[01:24:54.800] program
[01:24:56.560] containing UAP
[01:24:58.560] called Project Rubik's Cube?
[01:25:02.960] Well, let me
[01:25:04.880] um
[01:25:09.040] don't do it.
[01:25:11.920] >> I am not in a stiff.
[01:25:15.199] I am not going to jail.
[01:25:19.679] I can neither confirm or deny that if
[01:25:21.440] you want me to answer that question, ask
[01:25:23.440] for a candidacy for the whistleblowers.
[01:25:25.840] Ask Congress in the executive branch to
[01:25:27.520] give it to us and I'll answer that
[01:25:28.800] question.
[01:25:34.080] >> In my read that says if he is protected
[01:25:37.360] as a whistleblower
[01:25:38.719] >> and they want him to be able to talk
[01:25:41.040] freely, then he will absolutely talk
[01:25:43.600] about that. So he didn't confirm nor
[01:25:44.960] deny it. Smart move.
[01:25:46.080] >> Yeah.
[01:25:46.639] >> Now it gets weird.
[01:25:48.639] >> Through the intelligence agency, George
[01:25:50.159] was on the call. Through the
[01:25:51.440] intelligence agency, they said he drew
[01:25:54.639] obviously the triangle that he saw or
[01:25:57.679] whatever, but in the ICIG that he drew a
[01:26:01.440] pyramidshaped
[01:26:03.679] power source.
[01:26:05.760] Pyramid triangle by angle of
[01:26:07.679] observation. Pyramid-shaped power
[01:26:10.080] source. Non-human. We're talking about
[01:26:12.080] NHI.
[01:26:14.560] I I don't know if we publicly said where
[01:26:17.120] that was being housed, but I have
[01:26:20.560] already reported this to multiple
[01:26:22.480] agencies that were trying to find where
[01:26:24.639] the legacy [ __ ] was being held. So, this
[01:26:26.639] is like I already reported all of this
[01:26:28.480] what I knew, right? Factually, we're
[01:26:32.320] holding facilities when they're trying
[01:26:33.920] to hide it from DOJ who's trying to, you
[01:26:36.400] know, find out where this stuff is.
[01:26:39.520] as a journalist, right? You you when
[01:26:41.840] when the American government says
[01:26:43.440] they're hiding from us, I openly will
[01:26:46.800] try to help an agency, go hold them
[01:26:48.960] accountable, like another agency. Oh,
[01:26:51.040] I'll [ __ ] help them. No problem. I'll
[01:26:52.639] tell them something. Not talking about
[01:26:54.159] whis we're not talking about sources or
[01:26:56.080] witnesses, you know, nothing to do with
[01:26:57.760] that. Third thing that was told to me by
[01:27:03.199] OD and I
[01:27:05.440] is that Dylan do a drawing of like a
[01:27:10.800] hieroglyph
[01:27:12.880] and and by the way these were told to me
[01:27:14.960] they were classified.
[01:27:17.040] Why would you classify
[01:27:20.560] a symbol?
[01:27:22.639] What the [ __ ]
[01:27:24.560] >> What the [ __ ] Uh,
[01:27:26.480] >> so I imagine the symbol is somehow
[01:27:28.800] associated physically on the pyramid.
[01:27:33.280] >> That's trippy.
[01:27:34.800] >> Yeah, bro. Well, because my mind when
[01:27:36.960] you said pyramid, I started tripping out
[01:27:38.960] because I'm thinking about the pyramids
[01:27:41.679] all over, you know, disperate
[01:27:44.080] civilizations from thousands of years
[01:27:46.639] ago from you can go to the Yucatan and
[01:27:49.199] Mexico, you can go to Peru, uh, and you
[01:27:52.159] can go to Egypt and you can go to, you
[01:27:54.880] know, uh, Cambodia and, uh, you know,
[01:27:57.520] one of the sort of, you know, most
[01:27:59.280] common things is a pyramid. That is,
[01:28:01.040] that is sort of a very common structure.
[01:28:03.360] And then what I also find fascinating is
[01:28:05.199] they're now there's a guy named Filipo
[01:28:06.639] Beondi who I've had on my show. He's an
[01:28:08.320] Italian radar scientist who with
[01:28:10.960] synthetic aperture radar Doppler
[01:28:12.719] tomography has found these this energy
[01:28:15.520] grid is is what he believes it is. At
[01:28:18.719] least we know it's tubular
[01:28:21.679] 20 m long
[01:28:24.480] eight of these things with coils
[01:28:27.199] wrapping around them that go a kilometer
[01:28:29.440] deep tens of meters down below the
[01:28:31.280] pyramid. I've hosted a debate on my
[01:28:34.000] show. I don't know for sure if it's
[01:28:37.360] real, but it does seem like he found
[01:28:39.040] some anomaly under there. And there is
[01:28:40.480] something under there.
[01:28:41.120] >> Yeah, I looked at the Italian stuff,
[01:28:42.719] too. I mean, there's something under
[01:28:43.760] there.
[01:28:44.159] >> Seems like there's something under
[01:28:45.040] there.
[01:28:45.440] >> Didn't Joe talk about some um tic tac
[01:28:47.440] shaped metallic object they also found?
[01:28:49.199] Is that real?
[01:28:49.920] >> That's in the labyrinth that Heroditus
[01:28:52.639] and Ply the Elder and Ben Van Kirkwick
[01:28:55.040] is now sort of reporting on.
[01:28:56.560] >> Good beer. Ply the Elder.
[01:28:58.239] >> Ply the Elder. We had to get him in
[01:29:00.159] somehow. ply. Um
[01:29:03.199] but um yeah, and so I I know less about
[01:29:05.600] that, but Egypt's so weird because it
[01:29:08.880] seems like there's like an underground
[01:29:10.400] city. Like even the most conventional
[01:29:13.280] archaeologists, I think, would say that
[01:29:15.280] there's so much going on underneath all
[01:29:17.520] of these kind of topological structures.
[01:29:19.360] Even, you know, the Sphinx, there
[01:29:21.120] definitely are shafts below that. Even
[01:29:22.880] Zahi Hawwas who's like the embodiment of
[01:29:25.440] like you know gatekeeping in the region
[01:29:27.760] former you know minister of culture will
[01:29:29.920] admit that there's a shaft below the
[01:29:31.440] sphinx and for whatever reason it's all
[01:29:33.520] like locked down and I don't know if
[01:29:35.520] you're Egypt you've got to be thinking
[01:29:37.760] what's the number one GDP boosting thing
[01:29:40.080] we can do
[01:29:41.440] >> dig figure out what's under there you
[01:29:43.280] you find some new exciting you know
[01:29:45.520] discovery that's like for all mankind
[01:29:48.400] everyone's going to visit and be excited
[01:29:50.159] and celebrate
[01:29:50.719] >> it's like being the disclosure
[01:29:52.000] president. Wouldn't it be great? I mean,
[01:29:53.520] President Trump has forced this mandate
[01:29:55.840] and is following through so far. Look,
[01:29:58.239] whoever does this first is going to be
[01:30:00.960] hero for the rest of their life, hero
[01:30:03.360] for eternity. Um, with with But you're
[01:30:05.600] talking about something outside of my
[01:30:08.080] scope of knowledge
[01:30:10.239] >> um and ability like I I I've heard of
[01:30:12.719] all these things, but let's to bring it
[01:30:15.040] to so but maybe it's the UFO power
[01:30:17.360] source. Is this this pyramid? There's
[01:30:19.360] some maybe there's something about the
[01:30:20.960] pyramid shape.
[01:30:22.400] >> Yeah. So that's now I'm going to tell
[01:30:24.560] you what I pretty I'm I'm pretty
[01:30:27.679] confident
[01:30:28.080] >> and and there's pyramid tubulin in the
[01:30:30.560] microtubules of the brain that Roger
[01:30:32.639] Penrose and Hamarov think are
[01:30:34.880] responsible for collapse of the wave
[01:30:36.639] function and consciousness. And even Hal
[01:30:39.199] Putoff who's out here in Austin talks
[01:30:41.440] about this as his best model of
[01:30:43.040] consciousness. And there are rumors of
[01:30:44.480] UFO legacy programs recruiting psionic
[01:30:47.040] assets to call in craft mentally. And so
[01:30:50.000] the tubulant pyramid structures in the
[01:30:52.159] brain might have some sort of part in
[01:30:54.639] that. Okay. So now when you talk about
[01:30:56.480] tubulant brain structures collapsing the
[01:30:58.719] waveform of consciousness, I am lost on
[01:31:02.239] what those words represent in functional
[01:31:04.800] reality. However, sounds [ __ ] cool.
[01:31:08.320] Um I don't know about the whole psionics
[01:31:11.360] thing.
[01:31:11.920] >> Yeah. What do you think? What do you
[01:31:12.960] think? Do you think that's real?
[01:31:14.239] >> Just just top level um thing.
[01:31:16.480] >> Yeah.
[01:31:16.880] >> Um
[01:31:17.280] >> like the Skywatcher stuff. Do you think
[01:31:18.800] any of that?
[01:31:19.440] >> So I'm not
[01:31:21.679] >> like the and Greer pushes this stuff.
[01:31:24.239] >> Yeah. So two things. One,
[01:31:26.480] >> when I'm talking about a pyramid power
[01:31:30.000] source in a class, no in a classified
[01:31:33.360] ICIG.
[01:31:34.400] >> Yeah.
[01:31:36.239] >> Alleged drawing from Dylan. Again, he
[01:31:38.400] didn't tell me. And he still says, "I
[01:31:40.480] can't confirm nor deny, but I'd love to
[01:31:41.920] have the authority." The symbol hier I
[01:31:45.040] think was the word was used to me and
[01:31:46.800] George hieroglyphic, I think, on the
[01:31:49.760] thing. We're talking about something
[01:31:51.199] that you could put in other stuff, you
[01:31:54.480] know? So, if we're talking about a power
[01:31:55.840] source, I'm imagining that's how we
[01:31:59.520] would retrofit
[01:32:01.440] things, but I'm not sure on that. Like,
[01:32:03.360] let me report back to you. just the
[01:32:05.920] multitude of sources that we've got.
[01:32:08.400] It's all aiming towards this idea that
[01:32:11.600] there's different parts of technology
[01:32:14.400] that are held by different groups. And
[01:32:17.679] that's why DOJ is like saying remember I
[01:32:20.320] mean it was a public thing. They were
[01:32:21.360] like trying to find out. It's a public
[01:32:23.120] thing that Berles Rep. Berles was going
[01:32:26.239] to places for different hardware. Um so
[01:32:29.280] I'm not speaking out of school. What
[01:32:31.120] what I'm trying to to say is there are
[01:32:33.360] certain different types of hardware that
[01:32:35.120] I understand to be held in different
[01:32:36.400] places. So I'm not talking about big
[01:32:38.000] pyramids. I'm talking about something
[01:32:39.760] that appears maybe movable as a power
[01:32:42.400] source. Now you just went somewhere
[01:32:44.800] else. I want to catch you back on where
[01:32:46.800] you left off, but I wanted to qualify
[01:32:48.800] that.
[01:32:49.199] >> No. Yeah.
[01:32:49.679] >> What was the last
[01:32:50.560] >> The last thing I was saying is do you
[01:32:52.239] think this idea of ionic assets is that
[01:32:55.840] real? So, what people don't know is that
[01:33:00.159] a homeless guy came up to me in 2013 and
[01:33:04.800] said, "Look up."
[01:33:07.120] Yeah. And I looked up and I saw like a
[01:33:12.000] globe like just a I didn't know you
[01:33:14.400] balloon. What the you know. So then I
[01:33:16.719] started I think it was 2013. No, no. I'm
[01:33:19.360] sorry. That that's No, that was in 2004
[01:33:25.840] because or 2005 was right after I was
[01:33:28.080] sick. So, this homeless guy says, "Look
[01:33:30.400] up." Right. Um I'm looking up. It's a
[01:33:34.000] little bit more than that. Uh what
[01:33:35.520] happened was
[01:33:37.920] I got a message on a YouTube video that
[01:33:41.840] I posted cuz I saw this thing in the sky
[01:33:44.800] and I didn't know what it was. I filmed
[01:33:46.080] it. It's called the I called it the
[01:33:47.520] Silver Surfer.
[01:33:49.040] >> And I um just it it looked like these
[01:33:51.679] zigzaggy things. Do you know this part
[01:33:53.600] of Oh, this is cool. You got to hear
[01:33:55.360] this. Okay, so zigzaggy things. And I
[01:33:57.520] pulled out my phone. I'm filming. I'm
[01:33:58.800] walking in Santa Monica with my now
[01:34:01.600] wife, right? And we had I had a
[01:34:03.840] different pup, Lucky, three legs. So
[01:34:07.440] I filmed this [ __ ] in the sky, post it
[01:34:10.560] onto YouTube. Next thing I know, Bill
[01:34:14.800] Nye, the science guy, is saying, "Oh, I
[01:34:18.400] don't know. Um, he probably superimposed
[01:34:22.000] um, brine shrimp onto the film.
[01:34:23.920] >> It could be sea monkeys, which are brine
[01:34:27.760] shrimp shot in the right light and
[01:34:30.080] superimposed on the blue sky with the
[01:34:31.840] shaky thing."
[01:34:32.639] >> I immediately go on Google. I look up
[01:34:34.239] what Brian Shrimp is. It's Sea Monkeys.
[01:34:36.400] And I was like, I was [ __ ] pissed. So
[01:34:39.760] I like I thought people on TV there were
[01:34:42.080] science people had like scientific
[01:34:43.520] method. I don't even know how to
[01:34:44.800] superimpose nothing on iPhone footage at
[01:34:47.280] the time. I was like just barely
[01:34:48.880] >> that's whack of Bill Nye man.
[01:34:50.159] >> Yeah. What was the first year of the
[01:34:51.679] iPhone?
[01:34:52.400] >> Uh 2008 I think. 2008.
[01:34:54.560] >> 2008. So well look you know what
[01:34:56.159] >> but I think of Bill Nye I'm like that's
[01:34:57.760] was such a bummer cuz he's you know he's
[01:34:59.440] like this Mr. Rogers character of
[01:35:01.280] science.
[01:35:02.000] >> But I'm I'm obsessed with
[01:35:03.120] >> accusing you of shrimp brine. Yeah, it
[01:35:05.120] gets better. I'm super obsessed with
[01:35:07.040] getting the right date so you can look
[01:35:08.960] up the video yourself. That's how you
[01:35:10.480] know the date. Um I
[01:35:11.920] >> Oh, so maybe it was a little later.
[01:35:13.360] >> I used to be kicked in the head for a
[01:35:15.199] living. I I I literally when it comes to
[01:35:17.920] dates, I have to keep all in a phone and
[01:35:20.880] I use photos. So if you guys look up
[01:35:23.679] Silver Surfer, it's probably one of the
[01:35:25.440] first videos on my YouTube's probably
[01:35:26.880] there. Um what happens is he goes on the
[01:35:30.400] news, I get pissed off cuz I didn't know
[01:35:32.480] about news. What are you doing? Right?
[01:35:34.320] So I called the news station. I said,
[01:35:35.760] "Wait a second. I didn't superimpose
[01:35:37.280] anything and they just dismissed me,
[01:35:39.040] right?" And I'm like, "The fuck?" But
[01:35:40.159] they did this like story about it. So I
[01:35:42.560] went to deep dive investigation on my
[01:35:45.199] UFO sighting. I mean, I went into like
[01:35:47.120] forums and like Facebook and like what
[01:35:49.280] was it? It was called like, you know,
[01:35:51.199] all this stuff. Um, my space and I found
[01:35:54.560] all these people that had also filmed
[01:35:56.800] it. I got six angles of this [ __ ]
[01:35:59.040] right? So I went like crazy, bro. I was
[01:36:01.440] like, "No one's going to tell me, you
[01:36:03.920] know, that I superposed Brian Shrimp."
[01:36:06.320] And I literally
[01:36:07.440] >> Such a weird accusation,
[01:36:09.040] >> bro. I literally Yeah. Yeah. Billy, you
[01:36:12.080] might be a nice guy. Um I literally
[01:36:14.239] >> He's probably a science guy as well.
[01:36:16.800] >> I don't know. Worst joke ever. Yeah. I
[01:36:19.360] don't know. Oh, that's Oh, Bill science
[01:36:21.120] guy. So then I just like So then what?
[01:36:23.040] Here's the deal, man. I get six angles
[01:36:25.120] of this thing.
[01:36:25.840] >> Yeah.
[01:36:26.400] >> So I can then figure out where it was. I
[01:36:30.239] figured it out. There's a bunch of
[01:36:31.760] people online. It's funny story I'll
[01:36:33.040] tell you later about online who was
[01:36:34.560] there, but figured it out
[01:36:37.440] and I got the footage
[01:36:39.760] from the helmet cam of the Red Bull
[01:36:42.960] skydiving team with iridium flares that
[01:36:46.159] look like the Silver Surfer. So, I
[01:36:47.760] debunked my first UFO case in life. So,
[01:36:50.719] that's how I I like finally realized
[01:36:53.440] like, you know, you got to [ __ ] uh
[01:36:55.600] make sure and talk about I didn't never
[01:36:57.360] said it was UFO. I just asked a
[01:36:58.719] question. Well, well, even then it was a
[01:37:00.719] UFO. It was an unidentified flying
[01:37:02.560] object,
[01:37:02.960] >> but I solved it and I realized you can
[01:37:05.280] solve it. I remember writing in to like
[01:37:07.040] some UFO thing goes, "Hey guys, guys, I
[01:37:09.440] have a solved UFO case." They were so
[01:37:11.280] not interested in a solved UFO case.
[01:37:13.199] >> It's a problem with, you know, a lot of
[01:37:14.880] the reporting,
[01:37:16.719] they don't want the debunks and
[01:37:19.040] >> but that was kind of like a funny thing.
[01:37:21.600] So, um, where I realized that people
[01:37:23.920] were disingenuous and that they were
[01:37:26.480] just saying [ __ ] and that they're not
[01:37:28.639] authority, you know, on stuff and
[01:37:30.320] they're not even scientists sometimes.
[01:37:31.840] >> You also, I mean, there's so many layers
[01:37:33.679] to that story because it it does
[01:37:36.159] eventually get debunked by you more
[01:37:39.040] accurately, but there's like a fake
[01:37:41.119] debunk as well. And so, you want the
[01:37:43.280] right debunk. You don't want but then
[01:37:45.360] you also want the community to say that
[01:37:47.280] the debunks are important and they
[01:37:49.280] didn't care about like the ultimate
[01:37:50.800] debunk was right.
[01:37:52.080] >> I would say debunk I I would say um like
[01:37:56.159] you don't so debunking means you you you
[01:37:58.320] already have an idea and you you have to
[01:38:00.239] fit it into that idea in my
[01:38:01.840] >> Yeah. Or it means you were presenting it
[01:38:04.080] for sure as nonhuman. You weren't just
[01:38:05.760] saying what is this?
[01:38:07.119] >> Analysis is important, right? Analysis.
[01:38:09.360] You analyze everything. Some of the UFO
[01:38:11.280] videos that are going to come out from
[01:38:12.320] the government had deep deep deep
[01:38:14.239] analysis like instantaneous
[01:38:15.679] acceleration. That is what you're seeing
[01:38:17.520] in that video. They did not want that
[01:38:19.119] video out.
[01:38:19.760] >> Yeah. But even then, do you think that
[01:38:21.679] there are possible ways to poke holes in
[01:38:24.080] it and that there there might be
[01:38:25.840] >> Oh, yeah. Dude, and look one day, you
[01:38:27.840] know,
[01:38:28.320] >> like like if it were massless.
[01:38:30.000] >> If I get more I was massless.
[01:38:31.920] >> Like if it didn't if it was some sort
[01:38:33.840] of, you know, it looked real like it had
[01:38:36.960] mass but it was a hologram or something.
[01:38:38.960] >> Well, it got a weapons grade lock on it.
[01:38:41.679] Um, and by the way, [ __ ] how do I say
[01:38:45.600] this? So like
[01:38:46.320] >> cuz you can technically look like you're
[01:38:47.920] breaking Newton's third law if
[01:38:50.560] >> So you got so you got so the the debunk,
[01:38:52.560] not the debunk, but the plausible. And
[01:38:54.800] I'm not saying I believe
[01:38:55.679] >> No, no, no. I look new information. I'm
[01:38:58.159] going to absorb it. But we learned this
[01:39:00.960] uh the hard way. Uh life did, you know,
[01:39:03.520] um people did in a cool way. So yes,
[01:39:06.400] sure, Jesse.
[01:39:08.639] >> Maybe that's not a a UFO, you know,
[01:39:11.679] spacecraft that it's instantaneous. If
[01:39:13.840] you give me information, you should give
[01:39:15.840] it to the government first of all
[01:39:17.119] because they disagree. But, you know,
[01:39:19.040] cuz they they have eyes on all the
[01:39:20.320] assets. I'm
[01:39:21.040] >> sure they know that. So, here was my
[01:39:23.280] point. That was a deep dive analysis
[01:39:25.199] that came out, right? Because George and
[01:39:27.360] I obtained and released it. Our
[01:39:29.280] government hasn't released it. I'm sure
[01:39:30.639] there's a pilot uh a mission report on
[01:39:33.119] that. I want that. The world should have
[01:39:35.360] that. So, whatever. Yeah. And at some
[01:39:37.600] point, you do your best, you put
[01:39:38.880] something out, and then maybe it's not
[01:39:40.080] what you were told or what the
[01:39:41.600] government thought. And the reason I'm
[01:39:42.639] saying this is because in these, they
[01:39:45.199] call them tranches of releases. There's
[01:39:47.440] going to be good information and bad
[01:39:49.040] information. And that's that's why we
[01:39:51.600] want it out. So people really bright
[01:39:53.280] minds, the internet can solve [ __ ] real
[01:39:54.719] quick, right?
[01:39:55.119] >> That's why I struggle with video myself
[01:39:58.480] because I'm like, I'm not a VFX guy. I
[01:40:00.800] don't know. So I see some of these
[01:40:02.320] videos, I'm like, they look compelling
[01:40:03.440] to me, but like
[01:40:04.800] >> you could probably give me some [ __ ]
[01:40:06.719] and I would probably think, you know,
[01:40:09.600] maybe that looks compelling, too. So I
[01:40:11.199] just try to like not even weigh in.
[01:40:13.119] >> Let me argue why it's tip of the spear,
[01:40:15.119] okay? Okay. Uh right now, now this
[01:40:17.360] should change. This should change, but
[01:40:18.719] right now it's tip of the spear. Cuz
[01:40:20.159] man, if you were with me 15 years ago,
[01:40:22.159] you one video from the military, are you
[01:40:24.400] kidding me? You'd go crazy, man. Um,
[01:40:27.119] you're going to get bad stuff inside
[01:40:29.040] these UFO drops from the government, not
[01:40:31.440] cuz they're trying to trick you, but
[01:40:32.639] because certain products have been
[01:40:35.600] highly evaluated and there's multi-ensor
[01:40:38.080] platforms. Some they can't show you like
[01:40:40.320] with the uh 2019
[01:40:43.119] 100 UAP swarms. Some were pyramid in
[01:40:46.159] shape. somewhere somewhere. Look, there
[01:40:49.440] are other platforms. So, when you have
[01:40:51.040] multi-platform, multi-ensor, some of
[01:40:53.360] that's going to be really good and well
[01:40:54.560] thought out and the government should be
[01:40:55.840] giving that up to you. But some of it's
[01:40:57.760] going to be like this looked cool. That
[01:40:59.760] pilot says that was all crazy and that's
[01:41:01.920] the pilot report. But here's how we
[01:41:04.080] learned the hard way in a good way.
[01:41:06.719] Those 46 videos, that's the tip of the
[01:41:08.719] spear. just to begin the process.
[01:41:11.920] The last the first trunch of stuff that
[01:41:14.320] they put out, George Knapp and I had
[01:41:17.119] reported on something called the Baghdad
[01:41:18.880] Phantom. We released seven images which
[01:41:21.040] were still shots cuz obviously people
[01:41:22.880] are leaking [ __ ] So I don't even we we
[01:41:25.360] make it in a way so we could never even
[01:41:27.360] know sometimes. But we validate
[01:41:29.199] everything. But we put it out, we told
[01:41:30.880] people, "Here you go. It's cold. It's
[01:41:33.600] running through here." And you're like,
[01:41:35.280] "Cool video, dude." Right? And all of a
[01:41:38.000] sudden it was wasn't a video. We just
[01:41:39.360] stitched together the images. But the
[01:41:41.920] process worked. They knew that people
[01:41:44.639] knew about that case. So guess what was
[01:41:46.560] in that first trunch was the actual
[01:41:48.480] video of the Baghdad Phantom. That felt
[01:41:51.920] good to me and George cuz they're like,
[01:41:53.199] "Look, we're pushing transparency." But
[01:41:54.800] what people missed if you look and read
[01:41:57.600] through all the documents like a
[01:41:58.719] psychopath. There is a mission report of
[01:42:01.920] that collection. M. So that's before it
[01:42:04.880] gets into the disinformation arms of the
[01:42:06.880] old era because now everything's going
[01:42:09.119] to be thumbs up from what I understand.
[01:42:10.719] >> Maybe.
[01:42:11.199] >> Maybe. No, I'm just I'm going like this,
[01:42:12.560] but we're going to hold them accountable
[01:42:13.679] and they know that we can. They know
[01:42:15.119] exactly how we can. So one of those ways
[01:42:17.360] is look at the mission report from the
[01:42:19.679] Baghdad Phantom. That was supposed to be
[01:42:21.520] declassified in 2047.
[01:42:26.560] >> Wa.
[01:42:27.040] >> Just the mission report.
[01:42:28.000] >> Well, that's cool that that came out.
[01:42:29.360] >> It did because what it does
[01:42:30.880] >> What does the mission report say? at
[01:42:32.880] look at what the pilot said.
[01:42:35.040] >> What what what
[01:42:35.840] >> it's very simple. It it just it just
[01:42:37.600] shows the process is working before it
[01:42:39.840] gets like twisted by um intel agencies
[01:42:43.600] like Arrow has been acting like one in
[01:42:45.440] the past. Give them maybe future props.
[01:42:47.679] Um so so that is what I'm saying is you
[01:42:51.199] learn that when you put something out if
[01:42:53.440] the pilot report was like, "Oh no, we
[01:42:55.280] knew what this was." Then I would know
[01:42:56.880] that wasn't a UAP. When they label it
[01:42:59.360] UAP, when they talk about how it went by
[01:43:01.920] them super fast and they tried to keep
[01:43:03.520] the camera on it, right, and and they
[01:43:06.239] they got as much footage as they could,
[01:43:08.000] it reinforces what I said. Central
[01:43:10.880] Command has a bottleneck to UAP
[01:43:12.800] information before it gets to the people
[01:43:14.560] who legally supposed to get to who want
[01:43:16.480] the information, even Arrow. So, we
[01:43:18.400] informed them about that and about the
[01:43:20.320] bottleneck at Sentcom because we found
[01:43:22.800] out about it.
[01:43:23.520] >> And anything else of note that the pilot
[01:43:25.520] said in the back? No, it's it's it's
[01:43:27.520] really simple. It's just anam it's just
[01:43:29.119] an example of of of a mission report
[01:43:31.600] that goes with footage that you were
[01:43:33.199] told about 3 years prior to it through
[01:43:35.199] proper reporting and it should give you
[01:43:37.199] confidence confidence that reporting is
[01:43:39.199] working and that pushing this way works.
[01:43:40.960] >> You you mentioned Arrow under uh Kirk
[01:43:44.239] Patrick. It does feel like it was not
[01:43:47.040] only like a you know an intel agency or
[01:43:49.440] something or a modern project blue book
[01:43:51.280] kind of trying to dismiss you know many
[01:43:53.199] UFO cases. Uh it seemed even more
[01:43:55.440] nefarious than that. It seemed like
[01:43:56.719] maybe it was acting as like kind of a
[01:43:58.239] fly trap, like it was explicitly uh
[01:44:01.760] getting leads on the cases that I'm most
[01:44:04.719] familiar with are some of these nuclear
[01:44:06.239] cases. Arrow, the people that uh took
[01:44:09.520] the testimony from these veterans did
[01:44:12.159] not record them. They were told couple
[01:44:15.040] of the veterans were told, "Well, we're
[01:44:16.480] taking notes." Well, if you're
[01:44:17.840] conducting a serious investigation, you
[01:44:20.639] you want to tape record every word,
[01:44:22.639] every grunt, every syllable. And they
[01:44:25.119] did not record any of the interviews
[01:44:27.040] according to the veterans
[01:44:28.719] >> and they wouldn't take notes but they
[01:44:30.639] would maybe take highle notes about
[01:44:32.400] where you know certain evidence would
[01:44:34.400] lie and then they might even go and try
[01:44:37.199] to find that evidence and destroy it in
[01:44:39.040] certain cases. It just seemed like a
[01:44:41.360] total limited hangout with ties to UFO
[01:44:44.800] legacy program like like the definition
[01:44:47.440] of bad actor agency is my sort of rough
[01:44:51.520] assessment. But what's what's your
[01:44:53.520] assessment
[01:44:54.400] >> uh for you know for for people that say
[01:44:56.159] I don't answer questions directly here's
[01:44:58.639] a direct answer you are 100% correct it
[01:45:02.000] is exactly my assessment and I can back
[01:45:04.800] it up and there are a number of way in a
[01:45:07.760] court of law
[01:45:10.000] was acting as a counterintelligence
[01:45:13.520] against the American public to siphon
[01:45:17.360] out what people knew and then to be able
[01:45:20.719] to clamp down on them. It was a honey
[01:45:23.920] trap. It uh was a disinformation
[01:45:27.840] campaign. Um Dr. James Latsky
[01:45:32.000] even said that on our podcast, Mine and
[01:45:34.639] Georgees.
[01:45:35.600] >> Uh you know, he he says, "Well, they're
[01:45:37.119] sure acting like it, aren't they?" or
[01:45:38.320] something like that. Uh this is a known
[01:45:41.360] thing. Now, I have direct specific
[01:45:43.199] knowledge and evidence of exactly how
[01:45:45.040] that mechanism worked. Recorded,
[01:45:47.760] documented.
[01:45:48.560] >> Whoa.
[01:45:49.040] >> Oh yeah, bro. Oh,
[01:45:50.400] >> so for example, if somebody But there's
[01:45:52.560] a lot of good people that work at Arrow,
[01:45:54.080] by the way. Shout out to the good
[01:45:55.199] people. I do know some good people that
[01:45:57.199] work at Arrow, but it under Dr. Sean
[01:46:00.639] Kurpatre all the way up from the NASA
[01:46:03.119] people that are sources of mine who have
[01:46:05.840] told me what what it's like in the room
[01:46:07.280] with him, what he tried to do.
[01:46:08.880] >> Yeah.
[01:46:09.440] >> To the direct harassment
[01:46:14.320] of witnesses. Not I'm not talking about
[01:46:16.560] dismissal. I'm talking about harassment
[01:46:19.119] threats. And I'm not I'm not sure how to
[01:46:20.719] go far to go right now, but imagine it's
[01:46:23.440] recorded.
[01:46:25.679] So recorded. So in the court of law, I
[01:46:29.920] could prove that Arrow was intimidating
[01:46:33.840] and harassing
[01:46:36.480] whistleblowers.
[01:46:38.800] And
[01:46:39.679] >> it's wild.
[01:46:40.400] >> Yeah, man. So [ __ ] them. Sorry. In that
[01:46:43.280] in that old version. Now I hear that um
[01:46:46.000] Dr. Klovski.
[01:46:47.920] >> Everybody I know that knows him
[01:46:49.360] professionally before he was in that
[01:46:51.040] role.
[01:46:51.840] >> Yeah.
[01:46:52.320] >> My job is to have sources everywhere,
[01:46:53.840] right?
[01:46:54.080] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do they say about
[01:46:55.679] before?
[01:46:56.080] >> He's a great guy.
[01:46:56.880] >> Okay. I've heard similar
[01:46:58.000] >> He's an honest guy.
[01:46:58.800] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[01:47:00.159] >> Now he is in Project Blue Box. It's the
[01:47:03.119] modern version. Much more sophisticated.
[01:47:05.280] The battlefield is is cyber. The
[01:47:07.600] battlefield is social media. It's PR.
[01:47:09.840] Notice what he asked for when he went up
[01:47:11.840] the last thing with Juland. All he asked
[01:47:13.679] for wasn't more money. He asked for
[01:47:16.000] public trust because he realized coming
[01:47:18.960] into that job, poor guy, after it was
[01:47:21.679] just kind of [ __ ] on by Kurpatre and
[01:47:24.400] [ __ ] on by Tim Phillips,
[01:47:27.600] right? Coming after whistleblowers
[01:47:30.000] publicly on like LinkedIn when are you
[01:47:33.600] kidding me? Is that in your job
[01:47:35.199] description? Project Blue Box. Dude, it
[01:47:37.760] is worse than Project Blue book. A book
[01:47:39.520] you can open a box. How do you get in?
[01:47:41.280] and and it and it's it's so bad. It's so
[01:47:45.040] bad because it's you can literally tie
[01:47:47.840] its inception to legacy programs. So
[01:47:50.320] Kirk Patrick was at SIC if you study UFO
[01:47:54.000] legacy programs, SEIC is all over that
[01:47:56.400] stuff. Ronald Moltry who is office of,
[01:47:58.960] you know, under secretary of defense had
[01:48:01.119] Battel on his uh resume and scrubbed it.
[01:48:04.480] If you again study anything about UFOs,
[01:48:06.800] in fact, you can even go back to the
[01:48:07.920] pentacle memo at the inception of Blue
[01:48:10.639] Book and Battel was behind the scenes
[01:48:13.679] doing sort of, you know, the more real
[01:48:16.239] stuff while Blue Book was kind of doing
[01:48:18.320] the front-facing things. Um, so, you
[01:48:20.480] know, definitely legacy stuff going on
[01:48:22.080] there. It's obviously, you know, very
[01:48:23.520] close to right Pat. Uh, you know, Ohio
[01:48:25.679] State, a lot of interesting stuff
[01:48:27.520] happening in that sort of nexus. So it's
[01:48:30.880] it's people where you don't Glen Gaffne
[01:48:33.520] is on the board of Glenn Glenn Gaffne
[01:48:36.320] who's director of science and technology
[01:48:37.840] the CIA who's blocking the UFO transfer
[01:48:40.960] between Loheed and and Bigalow which we
[01:48:43.040] just discussed with Latsky. So you have
[01:48:45.679] three people who like
[01:48:46.719] >> the guy that George Knap said his name
[01:48:48.400] with his hand raised in Congress Glen
[01:48:50.880] Gaffne in the transfer of a non-human
[01:48:54.400] intelligence craft.
[01:48:55.280] >> I have a name for you. Go ahead. Glenn
[01:48:57.760] Gaffne, CIA.
[01:49:00.000] >> So, those are the three people who are
[01:49:02.880] supposed to be helping we, the American
[01:49:05.440] public, make sense of UFOs,
[01:49:07.679] congressionally mandated.
[01:49:09.440] >> It's crazy, dude. Bro, I'm so glad you
[01:49:12.080] you're tracking all this because the
[01:49:14.159] average person is not and not everybody
[01:49:16.560] can track all that. So like um
[01:49:21.360] putting that out in a digestible way,
[01:49:23.840] explaining that to people that there is
[01:49:26.560] a generational
[01:49:29.760] pattern of relationship just like you
[01:49:32.320] would have in any organization or agency
[01:49:34.320] or group of people cabal you know I
[01:49:37.840] don't know the word like Edgar Mitchell
[01:49:39.520] said like a group a secret group of
[01:49:41.119] people
[01:49:41.440] >> is that what he told you is he said a
[01:49:43.199] secret group of people cuz I know you
[01:49:44.639] you interacted with Edgar Mitchell the
[01:49:46.560] sixth man to walk on the six men to walk
[01:49:48.400] on the moon. Uh allegedly some people
[01:49:50.480] would say um he uh I don't want to get
[01:49:52.800] into that. He um
[01:49:54.159] >> neither here nor there.
[01:49:55.840] >> He absolutely in the film you see there
[01:49:59.360] was the last filmed interview before he
[01:50:01.679] died from what I understand at this
[01:50:03.600] time.
[01:50:04.480] >> Um spent many days with him and he was
[01:50:06.880] very clear with me. He really let me in.
[01:50:09.040] He knew that time was ticking. We became
[01:50:12.239] friends. He he lived for a little while
[01:50:13.840] after, but that was like the only filmed
[01:50:16.400] like, you know, cameras in his home kind
[01:50:18.239] of interview before he died. I lived
[01:50:20.560] lived longer, but then um we we got down
[01:50:24.000] to brass tax and yes, that's that's
[01:50:28.000] exactly what he said. He told me who he
[01:50:29.760] talked with. I knew about the Wilson
[01:50:31.840] Davis thing long before.
[01:50:34.080] >> Wild. Of course, you know, the things
[01:50:36.639] that George and I can't say,
[01:50:38.480] >> you know, um, look, man,
[01:50:42.880] >> there's a I wish it was organized. There
[01:50:46.400] are groups of people holding information
[01:50:48.080] back from me for no good [ __ ] reason.
[01:50:50.400] And um, the idea is, how do we get it
[01:50:52.239] out? We can't take it.
[01:50:53.920] >> But Mitchell talked about some sort of
[01:50:55.360] cabal, some sort of closely knit.
[01:50:57.600] >> Interesting.
[01:50:58.400] >> Yes, he did. But but not that he knew
[01:51:00.400] everything.
[01:51:01.040] >> Sure. And I didn't dodge your side
[01:51:04.080] question. We should get back to that for
[01:51:05.360] your audience, right? But um yeah, Dr.
[01:51:07.920] Mitchell talked about how cuz look, six
[01:51:10.960] man to walk on the moon. People want to
[01:51:12.960] talk with you. Born in Roswell, New
[01:51:14.480] Mexico, bro. Right.
[01:51:15.920] >> Yeah.
[01:51:16.320] >> He behind the scenes um and in front of
[01:51:19.600] the scenes tried to be an advocate for
[01:51:21.840] truth and transparency on this cuz he
[01:51:23.600] knew it was true. The whole enchilada.
[01:51:26.159] It's so interesting to me the dynamic
[01:51:28.400] around this whole topic is you have
[01:51:30.880] people like Edgar Mitchell, you have
[01:51:32.960] Warner von Braonn at the end of his life
[01:51:35.440] talking to Carolyn Rosen his his
[01:51:37.920] >> text me sometime.
[01:51:38.719] >> Oh, amazing.
[01:51:39.679] >> She's cool. and he's talking about some
[01:51:41.840] planned alien invasion and then you I
[01:51:44.080] feel like you have modern equivalents of
[01:51:45.840] them where it's like guys who are really
[01:51:48.000] well respected in their agencies or you
[01:51:50.480] know with their past credentials people
[01:51:52.080] like Latsky or Hal Putoff
[01:51:54.960] but those guy everybody I just mentioned
[01:51:58.000] considers themselves an outsider.
[01:52:00.400] >> Yes. And that's interesting about this
[01:52:02.719] whole topic
[01:52:03.840] >> because you have guys who are have very
[01:52:06.880] high security clearances who can, you
[01:52:09.199] know, walk into all these places like no
[01:52:11.920] questions asked.
[01:52:12.719] >> Bigot list.
[01:52:14.000] >> Yeah.
[01:52:14.480] >> No, there's bigot lists.
[01:52:16.080] >> Okay.
[01:52:17.199] >> You have to So yeah,
[01:52:19.520] >> it doesn't matter your clearance. It's
[01:52:22.080] need to know.
[01:52:23.360] >> It's very simple.
[01:52:24.800] >> There are bigot lists. That's what
[01:52:26.560] happened. Um,
[01:52:27.920] >> but there's a cabal that's deeper than
[01:52:29.760] Warner von. Like I think of Warner von
[01:52:31.280] Braonn as like he got to be part of
[01:52:32.960] >> No, but he's not he's on the inside of
[01:52:34.800] what he needed to know like how Bob was
[01:52:36.960] on Power and Propulsion, you know, with
[01:52:39.199] Project Galileo.
[01:52:40.880] >> Um, but worse, you you you have
[01:52:47.199] I hope there is a cabal that is planning
[01:52:51.679] how to do this, right? I don't think so
[01:52:53.599] cuz everything's been provoked and
[01:52:55.599] forced. But uh yes, all these people you
[01:52:59.760] know that you would imagine like how put
[01:53:01.760] off maybe he also just can't tell you
[01:53:03.440] certain things which I know for a fact
[01:53:05.440] >> like you know
[01:53:06.000] >> I know there's a lot he probably
[01:53:07.119] >> for example somebody you know
[01:53:09.920] >> and you might know this but somebody you
[01:53:11.440] know worked on a
[01:53:14.960] laser weapon system from a downed
[01:53:18.080] Russian NHI
[01:53:20.639] spaceship. someone you know. Have they
[01:53:23.920] told you that?
[01:53:25.119] >> Nope.
[01:53:26.320] >> You just saying that because you're on
[01:53:27.360] camera?
[01:53:27.840] >> No, I really don't know who you're
[01:53:29.840] talking about.
[01:53:30.480] >> Okay.
[01:53:31.040] >> So, somebody I'm extremely curious.
[01:53:33.119] >> Somebody you know
[01:53:33.840] >> Yeah.
[01:53:34.159] >> worked on the reverse engineering
[01:53:35.760] >> Yeah.
[01:53:36.239] >> of a laser weapon system.
[01:53:38.400] >> Yeah.
[01:53:38.880] >> From a downed Russian asset.
[01:53:42.159] >> NHS.
[01:53:42.880] >> Last name start with D.
[01:53:44.239] >> We're not playing that game in front of
[01:53:45.440] the camera. I'm I'm trying to get
[01:53:47.440] >> Well, there's one person who said
[01:53:48.960] something along those lines in a
[01:53:51.280] documentary.
[01:53:51.760] >> You're an investigator, bro. Okay, here
[01:53:53.599] here's the deal.
[01:53:55.040] >> What I'm saying to you is that even if
[01:53:57.119] they wanted to,
[01:53:58.159] >> yeah,
[01:53:58.560] >> they can't tell you how much they know.
[01:54:00.239] Now, are they in this cabal planning
[01:54:01.760] [ __ ] Oh, [ __ ] no. Who those people are
[01:54:04.239] highest highest up on the food chain?
[01:54:05.920] All I found is the cabala people who
[01:54:07.679] want you not to know, not the people
[01:54:09.599] that do know.
[01:54:11.040] >> Did you really hear what I just said?
[01:54:12.800] Because that's important. I I found the
[01:54:14.560] people that want you not to know
[01:54:18.320] >> but not the people that do know
[01:54:21.199] >> the full thing.
[01:54:22.159] >> Yes.
[01:54:22.560] >> I don't know that anybody does.
[01:54:24.080] >> Yeah.
[01:54:24.880] >> I I I don't know.
[01:54:26.080] >> Blind men touching different parts of an
[01:54:27.679] elephant.
[01:54:28.159] >> There we go. I I can relate to that. The
[01:54:29.920] parable. Yes. Something like that. So
[01:54:32.000] the question is
[01:54:32.560] >> that's apparently what General Neil
[01:54:33.760] McCasslin told Tom Dong. It's in
[01:54:36.239] >> secret. That was an op because no
[01:54:37.840] general like that by the way. Um he's a
[01:54:40.320] boomer. Okay. I've learned what that
[01:54:41.840] word means now. I had to look it up,
[01:54:43.520] which I'm not ashamed of. It's a cool
[01:54:45.040] word, boomer. Um, basically,
[01:54:49.360] anybody from that
[01:54:51.920] era of national defense will never Do
[01:54:57.440] you think he sits back and listens to
[01:54:58.880] Blink 182? Do you think that guy,
[01:55:00.639] honestly, on his free time, do you think
[01:55:01.840] he ever been to a concert?
[01:55:02.880] >> I don't know.
[01:55:03.440] >> Why is he talking to Tom? Right. Um,
[01:55:05.440] love Tom did some amazing stuff, you
[01:55:07.280] know, he pushed this forward, you know.
[01:55:09.040] Good for Tom. So I I really
[01:55:11.199] >> I'm a huge fan of his. I think he's
[01:55:12.719] awesome.
[01:55:13.040] >> His music too. Yes. I
[01:55:14.480] >> And and as a person and as a person I
[01:55:16.719] think he's
[01:55:17.199] >> No, dude.
[01:55:17.840] >> I think he gets a lot he gets a bad rap
[01:55:20.560] sometimes. Vigilante like really helped
[01:55:24.560] get a lot, you know, shake the tree down
[01:55:26.400] and get a lot of
[01:55:27.440] >> Let's make this clear.
[01:55:28.480] >> Yeah.
[01:55:28.880] >> Tom Dong is Yes, he's a rock star, but
[01:55:30.960] that's a tiny little piece of who he is.
[01:55:33.119] He is like you. He is curious. He is
[01:55:35.520] fascinated. He called me back in the day
[01:55:37.599] before he was ever.
[01:55:38.480] >> He's genuinely fascinated.
[01:55:39.840] >> Genuinely, he used to read all the books
[01:55:41.599] with the blink thing and he he George is
[01:55:44.400] always making me get on calls with
[01:55:45.599] people and I don't know who they are and
[01:55:46.880] he really want to talk to him. The I
[01:55:48.880] remember this call driving home from
[01:55:50.239] Vegas from uh right after I kind of got
[01:55:52.239] to know um some somebody else, but I'm
[01:55:56.159] driving back and Tom calls me. He's not
[01:55:58.960] like in the UFO world in any way at this
[01:56:01.679] time and he's just talking to me. He
[01:56:04.560] knew so much about the UFO thing. So
[01:56:07.040] people put him in as like, oh, this
[01:56:08.719] rockstar and blah blah blah. That's not
[01:56:10.159] what I'm saying. I'm not saying they
[01:56:11.040] wouldn't talk to him because he's a
[01:56:11.840] rockstar, dude. He trained with George
[01:56:13.679] Knapp on like how to make his approach,
[01:56:15.360] what the pitch is, how to use his face
[01:56:16.800] and his fame to get in there, you know?
[01:56:18.639] He got into like a locky little schware.
[01:56:21.119] Tom [ __ ] did it, dude. He pushed in.
[01:56:23.920] He got through. He went for it. He
[01:56:25.920] became proactive instead of being a
[01:56:27.760] consumer. He was a consumer for years
[01:56:29.599] like all of us reading books. He did
[01:56:31.599] that, man. and he gets a bad rap because
[01:56:33.920] people jealous they weren't in that room
[01:56:35.520] with Tom or they weren't in this with
[01:56:37.040] Tom. Dude, he's a good dude and he's
[01:56:40.239] super knowledgeable on the UAP thing.
[01:56:42.320] Um, but when I said it was an OB, this
[01:56:44.400] is important to me. The distinction of
[01:56:46.320] that.
[01:56:47.599] >> So, George's helping to sharpen the
[01:56:50.880] pitch of Tom and hooking him up with
[01:56:53.199] some people people don't know about was,
[01:56:57.119] look, you got a bad rap. You've had to
[01:57:00.480] keep this secret and that's going to
[01:57:02.800] change. So you need to look like the
[01:57:05.599] good guys because you are good guys. You
[01:57:07.440] were just protecting America but now
[01:57:08.719] it's gone too far. It was something like
[01:57:10.400] that
[01:57:11.040] >> in a Wikileaks email. Yeah.
[01:57:12.639] >> Oh well. Okay. Yeah. So So okay. So wow.
[01:57:16.800] So what happens then is you got this
[01:57:20.800] boomer. Now do you think when I say it's
[01:57:23.520] part of an op, but I'm not saying it's
[01:57:25.280] bad. I'll explain the op. But do you
[01:57:28.400] think someone like that charged with
[01:57:30.719] protecting our national security, which
[01:57:32.480] by the way, he's [ __ ] missing right
[01:57:34.159] now?
[01:57:34.480] >> I know.
[01:57:36.159] >> That's interesting. If that was like
[01:57:38.080] Russia or China and they got him alive
[01:57:39.599] somewhere, what does he know that they
[01:57:41.520] want? Not UFO related.
[01:57:43.679] >> What if it's some rogue element of the
[01:57:45.360] program?
[01:57:45.920] >> Well, so that would be really sad.
[01:57:47.920] >> Mhm.
[01:57:48.400] >> And that would be really [ __ ]
[01:57:50.080] >> Mhm.
[01:57:51.280] >> So I have trouble believing it's an
[01:57:54.400] adversary.
[01:57:55.920] I'm just saying all options on the table
[01:57:57.440] because we don't know. But what's the
[01:57:58.960] op? So a guy like that,
[01:58:00.719] >> yeah,
[01:58:01.040] >> he ain't going to talk to Tom Dong. He
[01:58:03.599] doesn't listen to his music. He's a
[01:58:04.639] boomer and he and he has this oath like
[01:58:06.480] Latsky. You think Latsky be calling up
[01:58:09.040] rock stars talking? No, no, no. So when
[01:58:12.159] I say op, it's not a bad thing. That was
[01:58:14.880] an operation. Meaning there were people
[01:58:17.760] trying to get [ __ ] out. Now not all of
[01:58:19.520] it is true. And don't be one of those
[01:58:21.360] people that believes everything just
[01:58:22.480] because someone gives you one good piece
[01:58:23.840] of information. So, if you look at that
[01:58:26.639] and if I look at history, here's what I
[01:58:28.800] would think. Here's my putting on a
[01:58:31.040] little um theoretical hat. I'm thinking
[01:58:35.760] that Hillary Clinton thought that she
[01:58:38.960] was going to be president. And I think
[01:58:42.639] that certain people knew that the
[01:58:45.520] information was dying and that we needed
[01:58:48.239] bright minds, just a little bit. We just
[01:58:50.000] need a little bit of knowledge out
[01:58:51.280] there. Or maybe she thought she'd be
[01:58:53.119] disclosure president because her husband
[01:58:54.719] really tried until they crushed down
[01:58:56.719] Webster Hubble after asking look back at
[01:58:59.679] your history. So Clinton tried maybe she
[01:59:03.520] could be the disclosure president. Okay.
[01:59:05.599] How do we pave the way? You do an OB,
[01:59:08.000] right?
[01:59:08.800] >> You not not negative like actual
[01:59:11.920] information authorized from the White
[01:59:14.400] House. People in the White House now you
[01:59:16.480] can start seeding because when come time
[01:59:19.679] because I'm going to win. She thought
[01:59:21.599] everybody thought
[01:59:23.040] >> Everybody thought there was no way this
[01:59:25.280] guy Donald J. Trump could become
[01:59:26.639] president. Remember that?
[01:59:27.840] >> Oh yeah.
[01:59:28.320] >> People thought that, right? Or I'm not a
[01:59:29.599] political person, but I remember people
[01:59:30.960] saying that.
[01:59:31.360] >> No, it was he was a complete sleeper.
[01:59:32.880] >> There was no way.
[01:59:33.920] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[01:59:34.320] >> Okay. That's what they're telling me. So
[01:59:35.840] basically this guy McCasten, one of many
[01:59:39.040] that Tom was um talking to. Obviously,
[01:59:43.040] Wikileaks you mentioned.
[01:59:46.159] >> Okay. So then what happens? Wow.
[01:59:50.239] Shocker. She's not president. So, what
[01:59:53.119] happens to everybody that was part of
[01:59:54.800] that? What happens to everybody that was
[01:59:57.119] prepping the battlefield for disclosure,
[02:00:01.040] which we all want as long as it's true
[02:00:03.119] what they tell us and not a fear
[02:00:06.560] campaign,
[02:00:08.159] right? So, if it's truth,
[02:00:11.199] what do they do? What do all these
[02:00:13.040] people do now that that didn't work? You
[02:00:16.400] got to you got to pivot. You got to
[02:00:18.560] change. And and we're starting to see we
[02:00:20.080] we've seen that if you've been paying
[02:00:21.280] attention. Who are those people? Good
[02:00:23.280] people? Bad people?
[02:00:24.400] >> What do they want?
[02:00:25.679] >> I think good people.
[02:00:26.880] >> Well, there was definitely a a threat
[02:00:28.480] narrative that came out of, you know,
[02:00:31.199] elements of of that group that was very
[02:00:33.760] it was very like, you know, they're
[02:00:35.280] prepping the battle space, you know,
[02:00:36.960] they're they're doing recon, they're
[02:00:38.560] looking at us, and
[02:00:40.080] >> I've always had an issue with that
[02:00:41.679] narrative in particular. I think it's
[02:00:43.760] sort of I think anyone that says they're
[02:00:46.159] only good or they're only bad is so
[02:00:48.560] ridiculous.
[02:00:49.199] >> Yes. I absolutely, you know. Yeah. And
[02:00:52.400] can you trust them? So if like a ET
[02:00:55.199] comes to you and says, I come in peace.
[02:00:58.560] You're going to destroy the world with
[02:00:59.920] your technology, you know, spread the
[02:01:02.480] word. We're
[02:01:04.320] >> you can't take anything at face value in
[02:01:06.159] either direction.
[02:01:07.040] >> Like with that with with any human, the
[02:01:09.199] words don't matter.
[02:01:10.400] >> That's right.
[02:01:10.800] >> It's the action. And if somebody speaks
[02:01:12.880] in absolutes about intent on either
[02:01:15.360] side, I don't trust them. I'm like,
[02:01:17.199] because you're an individual and every
[02:01:19.040] individual has different intent. And why
[02:01:20.400] would it be different? But we can
[02:01:22.320] organize. So let's look at the fact. The
[02:01:24.400] fact is they've turned on nukes. They've
[02:01:26.080] turned off nukes. They didn't stop
[02:01:27.360] Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They've
[02:01:29.360] constantly been watching. Call them the
[02:01:31.280] watchers, right? They've been watching
[02:01:33.280] for what seems like the beginning of a
[02:01:35.040] quarter of human history. Whoever they
[02:01:36.400] are, is it one group? Is it two groups?
[02:01:38.560] >> Actions or
[02:01:39.599] >> who freaking knows? Are they angry at
[02:01:42.080] each other? Are we a commodity? Are they
[02:01:44.080] protecting us? Fact is, they haven't
[02:01:46.719] like neutralized everybody's brain where
[02:01:48.639] you're walking around like a robot.
[02:01:50.400] Right. So, that we know of.
[02:01:51.599] >> That we know of. Yeah.
[02:01:52.880] >> We know of.
[02:01:53.840] >> I know a few robots, but uh
[02:01:55.920] >> so the threat narrative, let me hit that
[02:01:57.679] on the head with you.
[02:01:58.719] >> Yeah.
[02:01:59.440] >> Oh, me too. I think it's [ __ ]
[02:02:01.360] ridiculous because if you talk to people
[02:02:04.000] that actually had interactions, it's
[02:02:06.400] like a mixed bag. Some people it's like
[02:02:08.560] the greatest thing in their life. other
[02:02:09.920] people is terrifying. Totally.
[02:02:11.520] >> Like patient 17 terrifying. He didn't
[02:02:13.440] tell me that till after I saw it got cut
[02:02:15.119] out of his leg. Um
[02:02:16.719] >> this this is a guy with an implant.
[02:02:18.639] >> They called it an implant. I had it
[02:02:20.320] isotopically analyzed for zinc 64 one
[02:02:22.880] time and they wouldn't give me it back.
[02:02:24.159] I talked to Jacques Valet, showed him
[02:02:25.760] the results. It was way beyond the scope
[02:02:27.280] of terrestrial zinc 64 isotopically. I'm
[02:02:30.159] not a [ __ ] scientist.
[02:02:31.360] >> But it had isotope ratios that you'd
[02:02:33.040] never find on Earth. And Roger Lear took
[02:02:35.840] this out of this patient.
[02:02:37.199] >> Yes.
[02:02:37.599] >> This was his last patient. We can get to
[02:02:38.960] page 17. Threat narrative. This is for
[02:02:40.719] you. I'm talking to you. I don't give a
[02:02:42.159] [ __ ] about this. Right.
[02:02:43.599] >> I agree with you.
[02:02:45.040] >> Here's the thing.
[02:02:46.400] >> Why? Why do they have that narrative?
[02:02:48.480] Don't look at them like bad folks. Like,
[02:02:50.719] why? I think it's probably some sort of
[02:02:53.040] armaments build up in space and, you
[02:02:55.840] know, things of that nature.
[02:02:56.719] >> You're a deeper thinker than me. All I'm
[02:02:58.719] thinking is it's their [ __ ] job.
[02:03:01.679] >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. When when you're a
[02:03:02.880] hammer, everything looks like a nail.
[02:03:04.480] That's it. So all these people are
[02:03:07.119] coming from a military intelligence
[02:03:10.639] national defense standpoint. They have
[02:03:14.000] to think about it. It's in their blood
[02:03:15.360] to think about it. But I would I would
[02:03:17.280] just say one I would add one thing to
[02:03:19.360] what you just said which is I agree with
[02:03:20.880] that and then it's like why now as well?
[02:03:23.280] So like there's some sort of ramp up in
[02:03:25.199] the threat narrative. Well,
[02:03:27.520] >> it seemed like around that time. And so
[02:03:31.040] maybe it's because we're in a nuclear
[02:03:32.880] multipolar world, but like the the the
[02:03:35.440] nuclear thing had been happening since
[02:03:36.960] the, you know, ' 50s, '60s, '7s, the
[02:03:38.800] tampering with the nukes and stuff. So
[02:03:40.400] like the the the the going public about
[02:03:43.599] this could be a threat seemed to start
[02:03:45.760] at that time. I don't know why.
[02:03:47.040] >> Okay, but so that is fact. So but let's
[02:03:49.679] play that out. Yeah.
[02:03:51.040] >> Is that because
[02:03:53.199] um there is a threat in their minds that
[02:03:57.440] um
[02:03:57.920] >> yeah it could be it could be genuine on
[02:03:59.760] their they they could really believe
[02:04:00.960] it's
[02:04:01.360] >> I suspected I don't feel like they're
[02:04:04.159] trying to make um humanity scared of it
[02:04:07.599] like on the big scale. That's not the
[02:04:09.760] big message I'm getting from all of this
[02:04:12.239] movement. It it for me it's more of
[02:04:14.320] curiosity. Let's say they did that.
[02:04:16.560] Let's say that there it's an operation
[02:04:18.560] to control people. That's ultimately
[02:04:20.320] what you're saying is that I think you
[02:04:22.320] correct me if I'm wrong.
[02:04:23.360] >> No, I'm not even going that far. I think
[02:04:24.960] it's possible. Um,
[02:04:27.040] >> anything's possible.
[02:04:28.000] >> Anything is possible. And I What's that
[02:04:30.239] >> with this? Yeah,
[02:04:30.960] >> with this I think it's a smoke screen. I
[02:04:32.880] think it's a roar shock test and I think
[02:04:35.040] it could get used for blue beam style
[02:04:38.719] stuff. It, you know, religious
[02:04:40.560] awakening. It could get used to clamp
[02:04:42.400] down and then it could be extremely uh
[02:04:44.639] libertarian and subversive of any kind
[02:04:47.280] of institutional author authority
[02:04:49.679] structures and so it has this infinite
[02:04:52.320] superp position of possibilities
[02:04:54.000] attached to it and I do think people are
[02:04:56.400] trying to manage the narrative. I think
[02:04:58.719] they're trying to manage the narrative
[02:04:59.920] and shape the narrative less than some
[02:05:03.119] of the people I meet on like you know
[02:05:05.520] Reddit forums or whatever think they
[02:05:08.080] are. Like you meet these people and
[02:05:09.840] they're like just earnestly into it and
[02:05:11.920] maybe they've been socialized in certain
[02:05:14.000] spheres to believe certain things and
[02:05:16.000] that shapes their belief in implicit
[02:05:17.520] ways but they're less sort of you know
[02:05:20.000] bad actors I think than some of the
[02:05:22.159] people on the internet think you know
[02:05:24.000] >> that's for [ __ ] sure. Um, but yeah, you
[02:05:26.880] know, look, I mean, we just listed a
[02:05:28.480] bunch of bad actors, but it's it's like
[02:05:31.040] there are bad actors, but it's it's not
[02:05:33.679] it's not everyone. And it's I find it
[02:05:36.000] interesting there's there's a certain
[02:05:37.679] type of person who's it's like they're
[02:05:40.239] so they're rail they're angry and
[02:05:42.159] they're railing against the control
[02:05:43.920] system around UFOs. Like it's like this
[02:05:45.840] parasychological control system around
[02:05:48.000] this whole topic. And my second order
[02:05:51.119] thought is always if if you're spending
[02:05:53.840] all your time so angry at this, you're
[02:05:55.840] probably part of the control system.
[02:05:58.000] You're probably falling prey to it.
[02:05:59.520] Well, I not only falling prey, but you
[02:06:02.239] are allowed to run psychological
[02:06:04.880] campaigns of disinformation on the
[02:06:06.880] American public as Americans. That is
[02:06:08.800] legal. That is law. You're allowed to do
[02:06:11.040] that that night opposite. Is that true?
[02:06:12.800] >> That's what that's from my
[02:06:14.239] understanding. Like Google that [ __ ]
[02:06:16.239] look it up. But from the Obama era, the
[02:06:18.960] idea of protective programs and being
[02:06:22.159] able to seed American news, look, we've
[02:06:25.599] been doing it anyway.
[02:06:26.159] >> That's interest. Did it start it became
[02:06:28.159] legalized somehow under Obama?
[02:06:29.760] >> That's what smarter people, legal
[02:06:31.280] scholars that fascinating. I I I don't
[02:06:33.520] know if that is accurate. So, I'm not a
[02:06:35.360] legal scholar. But that makes me that
[02:06:37.280] makes me wonder about some of the UFO
[02:06:40.239] related narratives that popped up around
[02:06:42.239] that time as maybe because maybe it was
[02:06:44.960] on the backs somewhat of
[02:06:47.360] >> you know well fact check the Obama law
[02:06:49.760] change or whatever. So fact check me on
[02:06:52.000] that. That is my understanding, right?
[02:06:54.239] This propaganda, the idea, right, that
[02:06:56.880] we're allowed to deceive the American
[02:06:59.360] public for protective programs, right?
[02:07:02.079] Like that is 100% legal. And now the new
[02:07:05.440] terrain is all digital because that is
[02:07:07.760] the way that we consume information. So
[02:07:10.159] the real battlefield is the battlefield
[02:07:12.639] of of freedom of thought. And that
[02:07:14.719] occurs on social media, in news, um in
[02:07:18.880] all media that is consumed. And they've
[02:07:20.560] gotten very very savvy to the point
[02:07:22.639] where you if I mean it's so easy like if
[02:07:25.360] you get a AI to look at the repeated
[02:07:27.840] words and the timing in which people
[02:07:29.840] post and when they created their
[02:07:31.119] accounts dude I've got a whole list of
[02:07:32.880] people everybody says I should block
[02:07:35.040] because it's an organized attempt to
[02:07:37.360] take a single post I I had to say and
[02:07:40.000] then you know diminish it and make um me
[02:07:43.280] less credible. So that that that world
[02:07:46.880] exists.
[02:07:47.520] >> Oh yeah. and it's called shaping the
[02:07:50.079] emerging UAP narrative. And why I've
[02:07:51.599] said that now for the 400th time on
[02:07:53.599] camera is because I was exposed to a CIA
[02:07:56.560] document that gave the mandate. The
[02:07:59.119] mandate was to shape the emerging UAP
[02:08:01.440] narrative which I thought was so
[02:08:02.800] interesting. Not control, not stop,
[02:08:05.599] shape it. That's wild.
[02:08:06.719] >> As if they know this narrative is
[02:08:09.280] emerging. So how do we shape it? And
[02:08:11.599] I'll tell you there is a news source.
[02:08:12.960] >> Was there anything specific about how
[02:08:14.400] they were shaping it? In what direction?
[02:08:16.320] So the documents that I was um I am
[02:08:19.040] familiar with.
[02:08:20.000] >> Yeah.
[02:08:22.000] >> Are CIA documents
[02:08:23.599] >> Yeah.
[02:08:24.639] >> I reported those to FBI with George
[02:08:29.199] because it is illegal.
[02:08:32.880] What what they started saying in it is
[02:08:36.159] Commander Fraver misidentified
[02:08:39.760] his instrumentation. And I was thinking
[02:08:42.800] it's picked up on radar [ __ ]
[02:08:44.239] How the hell do he saw it with his eye?
[02:08:46.400] What are you talking about? There were
[02:08:47.599] five other sets of eyes up there. So I
[02:08:49.520] started thinking about as I'm exposed to
[02:08:51.520] this like is this document real? First
[02:08:53.199] of all, I was just exposed to it. I
[02:08:55.679] don't know how better to say it here
[02:08:56.800] legally. I was exposed to it. Never had
[02:08:58.719] possession of it. Don't have it. Was
[02:09:00.159] exposed to it. How I validated that
[02:09:02.480] document was through DOJ.
[02:09:05.760] So this document was talking about
[02:09:10.000] shaping the emerging UAP narrative. I
[02:09:13.360] will tell you this.
[02:09:15.280] There is a news publication that popped
[02:09:18.639] up right around the Lazar movie coming
[02:09:22.400] out era and I saw them grasp the ground
[02:09:28.239] and the terrain
[02:09:30.320] that is a CIA stood up
[02:09:35.840] media source and they were trying to say
[02:09:38.079] oh is there a real this like this is
[02:09:40.159] like an outlet that exists. It's an
[02:09:41.840] online publication
[02:09:43.599] >> and you know the name and it's like a
[02:09:44.960] thing.
[02:09:45.119] >> Yeah, bro. Yeah, bro.
[02:09:46.880] >> Can you hear Can you say or what the
[02:09:48.400] name?
[02:09:48.560] >> I'll talk I'll talk to you in person
[02:09:49.760] about it, but like I I think I think I
[02:09:51.520] want the world to to think
[02:09:53.520] >> and question
[02:09:54.960] >> and then review. I gave you enough
[02:09:57.440] information now to know
[02:09:59.199] >> that is a CIA stood up media outlet.
[02:10:02.880] >> Okay. So, what are the clues? It was
[02:10:04.320] popped up around
[02:10:05.199] >> around the Lazar time. Yeah. One of the
[02:10:07.679] best um
[02:10:10.159] Yeah. around the Lazar time. I'll get
[02:10:11.920] maybe I'll I'll text you more specific.
[02:10:13.599] We'll put some images in and just
[02:10:14.960] [ __ ] blast them out. But there's a
[02:10:16.639] bunch of people that work for it that
[02:10:18.079] are good people. They have no [ __ ]
[02:10:19.520] idea. They're literally just getting a
[02:10:21.199] job. But you'd have to kind of operate
[02:10:23.440] this from overseas is another hint,
[02:10:25.599] right? Um on this publication and
[02:10:28.639] >> are they UFO specific or no?
[02:10:30.320] >> So that's what's funny is um yes and no.
[02:10:33.440] like there's other really good articles
[02:10:35.280] and writers and there's like great valid
[02:10:37.360] stories, but when you need something
[02:10:38.960] seated into the media as CIA, it's great
[02:10:44.400] to have a bunch of people working for
[02:10:46.480] this and then any story that comes down
[02:10:48.400] from the king, you put in and you know
[02:10:50.639] exactly which writers to talk, you know,
[02:10:52.719] to talk to to seed them some very
[02:10:54.639] special information that is breaking
[02:10:56.239] news. It's so classic textbook CIA. We
[02:11:00.000] go back to, you know, even um I heard
[02:11:02.800] that a lot of the journalists, you know,
[02:11:04.639] were on payroll. We we've got their
[02:11:06.480] names now and what they were paid and
[02:11:08.000] all this stuff all the way down to
[02:11:09.840] people you really trusted back in the
[02:11:11.520] 60s.
[02:11:12.239] >> Whoa.
[02:11:12.719] >> Right. I think Operation Mockingbird. I
[02:11:14.880] >> think this is public knowledge, right?
[02:11:16.480] So if
[02:11:17.280] >> this I think I might know what
[02:11:18.639] publication you're talking about.
[02:11:19.520] >> So if they can't buy you
[02:11:21.920] >> Yeah.
[02:11:22.400] >> If they can't seduce, I'll use that word
[02:11:24.880] like seduction, whatever that means,
[02:11:26.960] like you know, something alluring. If
[02:11:29.040] they don't have a blackmail on you and
[02:11:32.400] then they try and can't get you to bite
[02:11:34.800] on that blackmail, then they're kind of
[02:11:37.040] running out of options. So, what can
[02:11:38.400] they do? They can start to diminish your
[02:11:41.360] public profile
[02:11:43.679] >> and they can threaten you.
[02:11:46.079] >> And that's the way you control somebody.
[02:11:49.520] Now, they're not trying to stop people
[02:11:52.239] who have loud voices because you're
[02:11:55.599] useful. These are intelligence
[02:11:57.280] operations, right? you're they're you're
[02:11:59.599] useful to them if they can get one of
[02:12:02.239] those five things I just mentioned to
[02:12:04.560] shape what you're saying. And that's
[02:12:06.560] what's so dangerous. I mean, you got to
[02:12:08.639] be squeaky clean, watch your back, you
[02:12:10.960] got to document everything. When Chuck
[02:12:13.119] McCulla says in my movie, not my movie,
[02:12:16.079] Michael Lzovsk's movie, I gave him 20
[02:12:18.639] years of footage. He made it. And to my
[02:12:21.040] chagrin, if that's the right word, like
[02:12:22.560] I had to ask my whole family like, is it
[02:12:24.239] okay? Can I show the dog? You know, he
[02:12:26.400] wants to do this. It should be
[02:12:27.520] protection. He's saying it's protection.
[02:12:29.520] Um, so what what my point is, what are
[02:12:32.880] they what are they doing by shaping the
[02:12:35.599] narrative that's already emerging?
[02:12:38.159] Is it sinister? Is it what Jesse Michael
[02:12:40.800] said right now? Is it to create a level
[02:12:43.520] of control and threat so everybody goes,
[02:12:45.280] "Oh god, big daddy government, you know,
[02:12:47.280] protect me because there's something
[02:12:48.960] coming, you know, like a big craft
[02:12:50.719] really slowly to Earth. Oh my god, so
[02:12:53.520] scary." or is it to acclimate you for
[02:12:56.960] something that they know is going to
[02:13:00.079] occur?
[02:13:00.719] >> That that's the other possibility. And I
[02:13:03.199] hear mutterings of that all the time.
[02:13:06.639] all the time of like, you know, certain
[02:13:08.880] dates and, you know, and I I I almost
[02:13:12.639] like the the um book of Matthew of like,
[02:13:15.520] you know, only God knows the the the day
[02:13:17.920] or whatever on the apocalypse that
[02:13:19.599] applies to and that has its own stigma
[02:13:21.760] and I shouldn't even say, you know,
[02:13:23.520] reference those things in the context of
[02:13:25.520] kind of a more scientific conversation,
[02:13:27.040] but I think that applies to this, you
[02:13:29.520] know, 2026 or 7 or or 35. No one knows.
[02:13:33.040] only God know or only some omnisient
[02:13:35.199] force knows
[02:13:35.920] >> or it's just complete and utter [ __ ]
[02:13:38.400] >> or it's complete BS and the the funny
[02:13:41.119] thing is I can call BS like I did on
[02:13:42.880] that I tried to get out ahead of of you
[02:13:44.800] know you're behind the eightball I won't
[02:13:46.079] be ahead of the eightball on that one I
[02:13:47.760] came out and said look all these intel
[02:13:49.440] people I have taken all of this
[02:13:51.599] information this conversations all this
[02:13:53.679] data I've basically run it through um a
[02:13:57.760] way to look for key repeated words
[02:14:01.280] >> and I found that I and very directly too
[02:14:06.079] was trying to be utilized to propagate
[02:14:09.199] oh you want something really special is
[02:14:10.880] happening like something really special
[02:14:12.320] but I'm just going to tell you what the
[02:14:14.239] [ __ ] tell everybody if it's really
[02:14:16.159] special it's important right so the
[02:14:18.320] manipulation of me that's why I came out
[02:14:19.840] and said look my fear is that you're
[02:14:22.079] going to be told that there is a craft
[02:14:24.000] slowly moving to earth and it's [ __ ]
[02:14:26.960] and then you know just the world
[02:14:30.159] >> I was told that too and
[02:14:31.599] >> you Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I knew it. I knew.
[02:14:33.760] >> But I I always just whenever I get
[02:14:35.679] something like that, I just I just don't
[02:14:38.000] like I I'm like I know what you're
[02:14:39.920] doing. This is passage material. This is
[02:14:42.159] a test. It's It's probably some sort of
[02:14:44.480] bizarre passage material slash can I
[02:14:47.440] trust you hybrid or something. And I'm
[02:14:50.000] like either [ __ ] way. I just don't
[02:14:52.159] want to like ever mention it again.
[02:14:54.000] >> See my my fear is that
[02:14:56.079] >> and then if somebody totally independent
[02:14:57.760] says something then I'm like okay maybe.
[02:14:59.440] But you're the reason, one of the
[02:15:01.119] reasons why I would say that publicly,
[02:15:03.360] cuz you know, I knew I'd get [ __ ] for it
[02:15:04.880] and everybody would like, you know, cut
[02:15:06.000] that up and make me seem like a crazy
[02:15:07.440] person. I said it out loud. It's because
[02:15:09.840] people like you have said to me that you
[02:15:12.400] were getting that same [ __ ] So now all
[02:15:15.119] these people speaking loudly are getting
[02:15:17.599] these same messaging and it's like so we
[02:15:19.920] have to defend against that or we become
[02:15:21.679] a part of that machine and mechanism.
[02:15:23.840] Now, ultimately, end of the day, I don't
[02:15:26.000] [ __ ] know, but I highly [ __ ] doubt
[02:15:28.560] that that is an accurate assessment of
[02:15:31.040] what's happening in 2020, 20 36,
[02:15:33.920] whatever.
[02:15:34.320] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:15:34.960] >> But hey, I'd be wrong.
[02:15:36.239] >> Do you think I think there's something
[02:15:38.320] so unique going back to Lazar, there's
[02:15:40.400] something so unique about him because
[02:15:41.920] he's this uh kind of hless like normal
[02:15:47.280] person, engineer.
[02:15:49.119] >> He's not he doesn't have any sort of
[02:15:50.639] counterintel background or anything like
[02:15:52.480] that. Uh, do you think we get another
[02:15:55.119] Bob Lazar coming out near term? Because
[02:15:57.280] I think that's what a lot of people
[02:15:58.320] want. I don't think they want the person
[02:16:00.960] who saw the thing on the document or
[02:16:04.639] that, you know, that who knew the other
[02:16:06.320] guy and that person worked directly or,
[02:16:08.560] you know, I think they want another
[02:16:10.560] Lazar.
[02:16:11.199] >> We almost got it and he's dead
[02:16:14.560] to tell me more.
[02:16:15.679] >> Well, you know about this, right?
[02:16:17.040] >> Sullivan,
[02:16:17.840] >> right?
[02:16:18.480] >> Yeah.
[02:16:19.040] >> Okay. So, a little example.
[02:16:21.679] >> Yeah. fact, he was to testify behind
[02:16:25.520] closed doors, not
[02:16:26.639] >> Matthew Sullivan for Matthew Washington,
[02:16:29.040] >> right?
[02:16:30.159] >> Um Matthew Sullivan was one of the 40
[02:16:32.960] people that you know that number's
[02:16:35.200] loose. Um there's probably more that
[02:16:37.920] that David Grush brought to the
[02:16:40.160] attention of the ICIG.
[02:16:43.120] Matthew Sullivan
[02:16:45.200] was fact
[02:16:47.519] two weeks about before he died, I think,
[02:16:50.399] going to testify. We call it behind
[02:16:52.080] closed doors because you know how many
[02:16:53.359] people I've taken in to to speak in DC
[02:16:56.000] that you will never see publicly. This
[02:16:58.240] is to inform them. Taken them in to
[02:17:00.479] testify. You're under oath. You're in a
[02:17:02.479] skiff. I have facilitated
[02:17:04.399] >> over 10.
[02:17:06.719] >> Oh yeah.
[02:17:08.319] >> Yes.
[02:17:08.960] >> Wow.
[02:17:09.359] >> So, so, so the question is this.
[02:17:13.359] Matthew Sullivan. Now, I didn't know him
[02:17:16.000] personally, but I knew he was going to
[02:17:18.000] testify. And that is testifying
[02:17:22.080] and that's why people and the FBI are
[02:17:25.280] investigating if his death was
[02:17:27.920] suspicious
[02:17:29.599] cuz it ain't adding up all the math. Now
[02:17:32.160] he could have just been PTSD and broken
[02:17:35.439] down and scared and but that's not the
[02:17:38.240] word on the wash. So I don't have any
[02:17:41.200] direct knowledge
[02:17:43.040] that I can talk about of that case.
[02:17:46.000] But I do know the FBI is looking into it
[02:17:47.679] and there's a congressional letter and I
[02:17:49.359] do mention if you read between the
[02:17:51.200] lines. I didn't know that this could be
[02:17:52.399] public. I didn't know this was going to
[02:17:53.519] be public. He's one of the two people
[02:17:55.200] that I'm talking about when I say you
[02:17:57.280] know mortal crimes. Um we don't know a
[02:18:00.880] sus it's a suspicious death and um he
[02:18:05.120] was going to testify behind closed
[02:18:08.639] doors. He had direct direct hands on
[02:18:12.880] with the craft. That would be like
[02:18:14.719] Lazar, wouldn't it? So, man, they wanted
[02:18:18.479] to stop Lazar.
[02:18:20.639] They don't want people that would
[02:18:22.559] convince everybody out because now
[02:18:25.359] >> Were and you were you in touch with me?
[02:18:27.200] >> Uh, it's a really sad story and um I
[02:18:29.599] just No.
[02:18:30.800] >> Okay.
[02:18:31.679] >> I was kind of trying to figure that out
[02:18:33.280] recently. I get a lot of signal messages
[02:18:36.559] >> and they delete a lot. And um
[02:18:41.519] I did get a message from him and it
[02:18:44.240] deleted and usually I try to be good
[02:18:46.319] about keeping those but it was on a
[02:18:48.399] thing but I had never talked with him.
[02:18:51.200] >> I I was trying to figure that out cuz of
[02:18:52.880] my memory but um you know I can show you
[02:18:55.120] on my phone what happened.
[02:18:56.639] >> That's a bummer man. It's a bummer
[02:18:58.160] because I was hoping maybe he was
[02:19:00.319] reaching out because I could take people
[02:19:02.240] from embryo scared Dylan Borland. You
[02:19:06.160] see him in the movie that audio he knows
[02:19:08.240] I speak always on speakerphone and buy
[02:19:10.559] my Nest cameras. He knows that. So Dylan
[02:19:13.120] Borland um he knew that I was doing that
[02:19:16.160] for our own protection. And so in the
[02:19:17.519] movie, you hear him really scared and
[02:19:20.319] that's way before we knew that we were
[02:19:22.639] going to get him standing hand to God
[02:19:24.639] and the country and be able to testify.
[02:19:27.040] That road is so hard. It takes me 2 and
[02:19:29.359] 1/2 months sometimes for for for
[02:19:31.519] national security people to vet some of
[02:19:33.040] the witnesses that I want to testify to
[02:19:35.439] you. A lot you'll never hear about. You
[02:19:37.359] never got to hear Daniel Gawkarell.
[02:19:39.359] Small story, but I had him unweaponized
[02:19:41.359] after he saw a a triangle. But these
[02:19:44.240] these badass [ __ ] that worked
[02:19:46.559] on the programs, you have to understand
[02:19:47.760] they're so locked down. They're not in
[02:19:49.359] there because they're trusted. They're
[02:19:50.560] in there because they have legacy,
[02:19:52.160] generational trust. Most of the people
[02:19:54.960] in the legacy atmosphere
[02:19:57.680] are It's not because just you are
[02:20:00.560] trusted. It's cuz your grandfather was
[02:20:02.560] trusted, your father was trusted. You
[02:20:04.800] got kids who are going to be trusted
[02:20:07.840] in that same intelligence circles. So
[02:20:10.560] they're so tightly packed in there. um
[02:20:13.680] to get somebody to break out of that
[02:20:15.920] cage is dangerous for a lot of reasons
[02:20:19.840] because why would you do that? You have
[02:20:22.160] to think this is so critically
[02:20:24.319] important. Otherwise, keep your head
[02:20:25.840] down. Do your work. You're on one of the
[02:20:27.200] coolest projects on planet Earth.
[02:20:28.800] Literally.
[02:20:30.399] Do you understand what I'm saying?
[02:20:31.520] >> I do. Yeah. That's crazy that maybe he
[02:20:35.439] was taken out.
[02:20:36.399] >> I I don't know, bro.
[02:20:37.680] >> The timing is weird. The timing. There's
[02:20:39.200] a lot I could say about that,
[02:20:41.120] >> but I Yeah, let the DOJ do their job.
[02:20:44.160] >> Okay. Damn. But like you feel pretty
[02:20:48.160] confident that he was working directly
[02:20:50.240] on the craft.
[02:20:51.680] >> To the best of my know, do I feel very
[02:20:53.600] confident? Absolutely. Do I have all the
[02:20:56.080] information? No. But I think people that
[02:20:58.560] have more information than me and knew
[02:21:00.720] him should speak to you. Not me.
[02:21:03.359] Interest about him. Is there going to be
[02:21:05.120] somebody Man, it shouldn't be on Bob
[02:21:07.200] Lazar. our government should come
[02:21:08.880] forward and this is the problem. The
[02:21:10.800] first releases, bunch of videos, bunch
[02:21:12.800] of documents. Wait a second. Didn't
[02:21:15.600] David Grush raise his hand and say that
[02:21:17.280] we have been generationally exploiting
[02:21:20.080] non-human technology hand to God and to
[02:21:23.600] country and say that we have these
[02:21:26.319] programs and didn't he say that we have
[02:21:29.200] alien bodies biolog didn't he say that
[02:21:32.319] oh [ __ ] where was that in the releases
[02:21:35.120] the the IC inspector general said this
[02:21:38.000] is urgent and credible
[02:21:39.840] >> sure but now we got a real issue
[02:21:42.800] >> the ICIG is the of the intelligence
[02:21:46.000] community.
[02:21:49.040] That that'll that might come out later.
[02:21:51.359] The the the question being this,
[02:21:53.680] >> who's the real watchdog here? Can we
[02:21:56.080] trust them?
[02:21:57.520] >> Well, it doesn't seem like they've acted
[02:21:59.280] on Grush's, you know, report that he
[02:22:01.680] handed in in 2022, 4 years ago. So, man,
[02:22:05.120] >> I don't know. You know, I hear there's a
[02:22:08.880] guy and I hear he's a really good guy
[02:22:11.840] and I hear that he is the current ICIG
[02:22:15.359] and I hear that his name is Christopher
[02:22:18.240] Fox
[02:22:19.840] and I hear that if someone like him
[02:22:22.800] being active ICIG wanted to and didn't
[02:22:26.399] have to recuse himself for some reason
[02:22:28.960] that there's actually four people cuz
[02:22:30.720] I've talked with Chuck who was the first
[02:22:32.000] ICIG in American history. So he, you
[02:22:34.479] know, pretty much I'm pretty sure he
[02:22:35.600] knows the job. I think if they wanted to
[02:22:39.840] that they could rapidly come to
[02:22:42.960] conclusion on that ICIG report. I think
[02:22:46.080] the ICIG
[02:22:47.920] I think that they also have the video
[02:22:50.399] footage of Dylan Borland's testimony.
[02:22:53.680] So I think that this could be very
[02:22:57.280] rapidly sorted out if people wanted to.
[02:22:59.920] You feel what I'm saying?
[02:23:01.280] >> Yeah. And I also think the one thing I
[02:23:04.240] didn't tell you cuz we got into a
[02:23:06.160] different space is the fourth thing that
[02:23:09.439] I heard directly from ODNI
[02:23:13.359] is that Dylan Borland drew a fourth
[02:23:16.560] drawing
[02:23:18.319] of a sensor system. Oh, but that's
[02:23:21.520] really classified because it's not UFO
[02:23:23.840] related at all. Now wait a second. They
[02:23:26.080] were asking me, did he draw that for me?
[02:23:28.319] [ __ ] He drew me a triangle on
[02:23:30.640] camera. Didn't draw nothing else. Here's
[02:23:33.040] what I know as fact. Dylan Borland
[02:23:36.640] wouldn't even know what the [ __ ] they're
[02:23:39.280] talking about or how to How do you draw
[02:23:41.680] a sensor system, Jesse? You're a smart
[02:23:43.760] guy. You're basically a [ __ ]
[02:23:45.520] scientist. How do you draw a sensor
[02:23:48.640] system? So, they lied to me. Why did
[02:23:51.120] they lie to me? They lied to me to get
[02:23:54.080] Dylan Borland on treason, which carries
[02:23:58.000] a life sentence or death penalty. They
[02:24:00.399] lied to me about Matthew Brown saying
[02:24:02.240] he's a Jewhating racist.
[02:24:04.319] >> That's so crazy.
[02:24:05.120] >> Oh, when I told him he was at a Jewish
[02:24:06.640] wedding, he was like, "What?" By the
[02:24:10.399] way, he's part Jewish.
[02:24:11.760] >> Let's Let's back up and tell people who
[02:24:13.680] who is Matthew Brown.
[02:24:15.120] >> Okay. I just want you to know that OD
[02:24:18.960] and I ran an operation for nine months.
[02:24:22.800] Not all of them are bad people.
[02:24:24.720] Actually, all of them are good people,
[02:24:26.080] but some of them are doing a job. what
[02:24:28.319] their mission was. Their mission, if I
[02:24:31.120] had to assess, it's just my opinion, was
[02:24:33.520] to co-opt me and George to go against
[02:24:35.760] whistleblowers and to fabricate
[02:24:39.280] evidence, fabricate evidence against an
[02:24:42.479] American hero, a whistleblower named
[02:24:45.040] Dylan Borland, to fabricate
[02:24:48.080] evidence against Matthew Brown,
[02:24:50.800] to pressure everybody into a corner. But
[02:24:52.479] why?
[02:24:54.080] ultimately
[02:24:55.600] to control Congress's ability and
[02:24:59.359] ambition to continue what they're doing
[02:25:03.200] having hearings.
[02:25:05.200] I could probably prove that. Actually, I
[02:25:09.280] could prove that in the court of law.
[02:25:12.560] So, wow, [ __ ] We got that going
[02:25:16.560] on. Then put on top of that, did you see
[02:25:20.560] a few days ago that the head of the dig,
[02:25:23.439] the director's initiative group, which
[02:25:25.040] was the part of OD and I that came to me
[02:25:28.160] and to George first, and we provided
[02:25:31.040] them a ton of whistleblowers and people
[02:25:33.359] just saying, "Hey, telling the
[02:25:34.800] whistleblowers, we don't know if we can
[02:25:36.240] trust them, but do your best, right?"
[02:25:38.960] And they did it. Most of them talked
[02:25:40.800] with them. I think very smartly David
[02:25:42.479] Gush didn't.
[02:25:44.399] I don't think I am confident Tulsi
[02:25:47.520] Gabbert was completely unaware that the
[02:25:51.120] CIA
[02:25:53.040] was running an operation through ODNI
[02:25:57.840] on journalists on whistleblowers who
[02:26:01.120] were bringing in saying they have
[02:26:03.200] ultimate authority to protect you. You
[02:26:05.760] can tell them anything, right? But wink
[02:26:08.880] wink to the whistleblowers like really
[02:26:10.479] careful. throw them some underhanded
[02:26:11.840] pitches first to make sure they they're
[02:26:13.600] not running something. Here's what we
[02:26:15.439] find out. A few days ago,
[02:26:18.800] a CIA agent goes in front of Congress
[02:26:21.359] and he says, "I ran the dig." He got
[02:26:24.080] emotional in it. He's like, "The CIA,"
[02:26:26.800] he said, "I ran the dig, the director's
[02:26:29.040] initiative under Tulsi and I don't think
[02:26:30.960] she was aware that she had these rogue
[02:26:32.640] elements, you know, like we're talking
[02:26:34.240] about little cabals from the CIA, by the
[02:26:36.640] way, running this op on us." And he says
[02:26:42.560] like he's a whistleblower. He says he
[02:26:45.680] found out that when he was running the
[02:26:49.120] anomalous health effects, the
[02:26:54.319] COVID
[02:26:56.080] coverup and the UAP initiative of the
[02:26:59.600] dig
[02:27:02.399] that the C they found out and he's CIA.
[02:27:05.439] They found out the CIA was spying
[02:27:09.040] on the whistleblowers.
[02:27:11.439] That means everybody that we brought in,
[02:27:14.640] their computers, their cell phones,
[02:27:16.000] everything. He's self admitting. He's
[02:27:18.240] self admitting. CIA's response was he
[02:27:21.359] wasn't authorized to speak to you on
[02:27:23.040] Twitter. You're like, "What the [ __ ]
[02:27:24.640] You're not denying those claims? That is
[02:27:26.479] illegal. He said that's illegal. He got
[02:27:28.479] emotional." And I don't know this guy,
[02:27:30.000] John. John something III. I don't know
[02:27:32.319] him. Oh boy. We should have a talk
[02:27:35.359] because if you ran the dig, did you know
[02:27:38.720] that they were trying to entrap me,
[02:27:42.240] George, Dylan, Matthew, Lu Alzando,
[02:27:47.439] Lacatsky,
[02:27:49.439] um Jay Stratton?
[02:27:52.560] Like, did you know that as the head of
[02:27:54.479] the dig? Did you know that? But I
[02:27:57.600] suspect I want to see the unclassified
[02:27:59.840] version of that report. Who's Matthew
[02:28:01.920] Brown? That's what you asked.
[02:28:03.120] >> Yeah. Okay.
[02:28:04.720] >> Wow. That's uh
[02:28:06.240] >> bro
[02:28:06.560] >> interesting.
[02:28:07.200] >> And that's just breakfast. Let's get to
[02:28:08.880] lunch.
[02:28:09.200] >> You have the uh agency that's supposed
[02:28:11.359] to oversee all other intelligence
[02:28:13.120] agencies being redteamed by what's
[02:28:15.280] supposed to be a subordinate agency in
[02:28:17.680] the CIA. That's a pretty wild phenomena.
[02:28:21.439] I think that's why people like you
[02:28:22.880] because you just took a very complex
[02:28:24.479] thing that I'm very emotional about
[02:28:26.240] because they tried to hurt people I care
[02:28:28.240] about and use me to do it and you just
[02:28:31.359] made it simpified.
[02:28:35.359] >> I tried. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Who's
[02:28:38.160] Matt Brown? While they are observing the
[02:28:40.240] Russian vessels, a large black triangle
[02:28:43.439] materializes or decloaks or something.
[02:28:46.880] The point is is it did not move. They
[02:28:48.399] appeared above the directly above these
[02:28:50.560] ships probably no more than 200 m.
[02:28:54.640] >> Matt Brown
[02:28:56.960] courageous as [ __ ] I mean just
[02:28:59.439] goosebump courageous as [ __ ] Matt Brown
[02:29:03.760] absolutely 100% worthy of your trust.
[02:29:09.439] Has a loving family relationship. I met
[02:29:12.880] his dad, his mom, uh I think two of his
[02:29:15.760] brothers.
[02:29:17.680] um talked with his wife. Um he's got
[02:29:20.800] cats,
[02:29:22.640] you know, he's had a
[02:29:24.240] >> seems like a kind of a gentle soul.
[02:29:26.720] >> He he's he's he's not as fragile as
[02:29:30.240] people think.
[02:29:31.680] >> He cuz you know, he'll tremble when he
[02:29:33.680] gets um angry like or scared or nervous.
[02:29:37.680] And I'd be nervous as [ __ ] too. Um I
[02:29:40.160] snuck him in, you know, to have a secret
[02:29:42.560] congressional briefing with three
[02:29:44.479] members who all said yes to me.
[02:29:46.880] um like snuck him in with my camera
[02:29:48.720] crew. Um he has
[02:29:54.560] balls of steel.
[02:29:56.880] He's so smart. What an asset to America.
[02:30:00.160] Patriot. He's a patriot.
[02:30:03.200] Worthy of your trust. I said that. I
[02:30:04.640] want to say it again. Um he revealed
[02:30:07.680] Immaculate Constellation to the world.
[02:30:12.800] That was a thing.
[02:30:17.680] He has endured I more than I'm
[02:30:19.680] comfortable saying here.
[02:30:21.359] >> Um, from a personal standpoint,
[02:30:23.600] >> he was at the office of the secretary of
[02:30:25.280] defense, right?
[02:30:26.240] >> State Department.
[02:30:26.960] >> He was at the State Department.
[02:30:28.080] >> Yeah, that was his main job, but he was
[02:30:29.760] at Pentagon before that
[02:30:30.800] >> and he had TSSCI and and yeah,
[02:30:33.520] >> he was doing some like audit or
[02:30:35.200] something. How did he run into all of
[02:30:37.920] this UFO related info?
[02:30:41.040] >> [ __ ] I mean, I think Matt should talk
[02:30:42.720] for himself. So, so you notice sometimes
[02:30:44.560] people say I don't I I am so protective
[02:30:48.479] of people and you know there's so much
[02:30:51.439] that goes into my brain that like I have
[02:30:54.160] to be um gentle with because one wrong
[02:30:58.640] little word and I expose something they
[02:31:00.640] didn't want exposed about them
[02:31:02.399] personally and then they get harassed.
[02:31:04.000] >> But but high level he was doing some
[02:31:05.840] routine thing and he bumped into
[02:31:09.200] documentation.
[02:31:10.160] >> I can tell you this part.
[02:31:11.120] >> Yeah. So on a shared Intel link server,
[02:31:16.479] there was something misappropriately
[02:31:19.120] uploaded. So anybody can go in, but at
[02:31:22.560] the time he was kind of in a purgatory.
[02:31:24.319] It's like [ __ ] He has to like basically
[02:31:26.000] clean up a bunch of files. Now he's
[02:31:27.600] fidious. Also good word, right? Um so he
[02:31:30.720] goes in and looks through everything and
[02:31:32.319] puts him in the right place. Boom. Sees
[02:31:34.720] Immaculate Constellation.
[02:31:37.280] The heck is this? Right. It actually had
[02:31:40.160] a picture of Lou Alzando on it. Not that
[02:31:42.640] Lou made that. It was saying that Lou
[02:31:45.439] came forward in the UAP space, but it
[02:31:48.240] caught his attention, right? Okay. And
[02:31:51.439] then he starts going through it and he's
[02:31:53.680] like, "Dude, this is not supposed to be
[02:31:55.520] on this server." So, what did a real
[02:31:58.319] patriot like Matthew Brown do first
[02:32:01.359] thing? because you could everybody can
[02:32:03.120] see he goes to his boss or his boss's
[02:32:06.640] boss and he's like um you know hey this
[02:32:09.120] was not supposed to be there I was not
[02:32:11.040] supposed to see this it looks like a
[02:32:12.800] working report um and they're like okay
[02:32:16.880] cool goes back to his desk or whatever
[02:32:18.960] and I hope I'm saying this right and
[02:32:20.319] Matt you can speak for yourself and you
[02:32:22.080] will very soon people can find out so
[02:32:26.880] how I understand it is he was so nervous
[02:32:30.000] by how they reacted
[02:32:31.920] to the spillage they call it where you
[02:32:34.880] see something that you're not supposed
[02:32:36.640] to be read into that he's like dude
[02:32:38.720] they're going to throw me under the bus
[02:32:40.160] if I need to tell somebody else so he
[02:32:41.840] goes and tells somebody else and the
[02:32:43.840] reaction kept being this like okay but
[02:32:48.560] like no asurances to him are you doing
[02:32:50.640] the right thing so that gets under your
[02:32:53.439] skin you get a little worried right I
[02:32:55.359] mean that your whole career is your um
[02:32:57.760] is your clearances if they even put your
[02:33:00.319] clearances in purgatory like they did to
[02:33:02.080] Dylan for years. They're not saying you
[02:33:04.720] don't got it. And these are people
[02:33:06.640] trusted by our government. In Dylan's
[02:33:09.040] case, really, really trusted, bro. I
[02:33:12.240] can't say the agency specifically you
[02:33:14.000] worked for, but you could subcontracted
[02:33:15.840] for the big ones. Mhm. Okay. So, there's
[02:33:19.359] Matthew alone. Who you going to call?
[02:33:23.359] Batman. Like, you know who you going to
[02:33:25.359] call, dude? So he proactively being a
[02:33:29.040] very thoughtful person documented
[02:33:31.280] everything every move everything
[02:33:33.600] documented for self-p protection also
[02:33:36.000] cuz he's like you know why did why did I
[02:33:38.160] get exposed to that you know and also I
[02:33:39.920] think as a curious guy he had some time
[02:33:42.000] on his hands and probably um kept his
[02:33:45.280] eye out for UAP information right and
[02:33:50.000] here's a guy that like an all source
[02:33:52.880] analyst I don't think he was but like
[02:33:54.640] one you kind of start putting together
[02:33:57.120] what they call the mosaic and and and
[02:33:59.520] you look for what you know to be true
[02:34:03.040] then as a beautiful patriotic person
[02:34:05.760] when he realized what was going on and
[02:34:08.800] how dangerous it was and that's as far
[02:34:10.880] as I'm going to say about that he can
[02:34:12.880] talk um cuz not everything's cleared for
[02:34:15.520] him yet he can't like go ask state
[02:34:17.359] department again
[02:34:19.359] um
[02:34:21.840] he came to me very early on
[02:34:28.560] and
[02:34:30.399] was able to
[02:34:33.280] get that information
[02:34:35.680] into the hands of the people that I
[02:34:39.680] trusted
[02:34:41.600] and that and I do trust still and were
[02:34:44.560] in position of power and could assess
[02:34:47.120] it. That's how it began with Matthew
[02:34:50.080] Brown. That's how it began. He didn't
[02:34:52.080] know who to trust at first. he made some
[02:34:53.920] mistake or um we won't get into all of
[02:34:58.160] that but some people are not worthy of
[02:35:00.800] your trust at all. Journalists don't try
[02:35:06.800] to pay people ever, Jesse.
[02:35:10.800] >> Interesting.
[02:35:11.439] >> That's not a journalist.
[02:35:12.880] >> There was something,
[02:35:13.920] >> bro. Let's not get into it, right? You
[02:35:15.520] said you don't want to.
[02:35:16.479] >> Okay,
[02:35:17.120] >> so let's not
[02:35:17.920] >> We can if you want, but
[02:35:19.439] >> dude, let's talk about things that
[02:35:21.040] excite us. Okay.
[02:35:22.399] >> One day people will understand.
[02:35:24.640] >> Yeah.
[02:35:25.760] >> So, one day people will understand what
[02:35:28.880] makes me angry.
[02:35:30.560] >> I didn't know anything about
[02:35:31.840] >> I know you didn't.
[02:35:32.640] >> Possible pain.
[02:35:33.439] >> That's why you No, no.
[02:35:36.479] We're not saying specifics yet. Don't
[02:35:37.920] make an assumption. You might have just
[02:35:39.680] made an assumption.
[02:35:40.399] >> Well, I think I made a correct
[02:35:41.600] assumption, but we can move on. So, this
[02:35:44.000] is going to be so awkward for your
[02:35:44.960] audience, but Jesse and I, we we made
[02:35:46.880] one agreement going on
[02:35:48.720] >> is that there's, you know, we're we're
[02:35:51.120] just going to talk freely and that we're
[02:35:52.720] going to enjoy ourselves and talk about
[02:35:53.840] what makes us happy and inspires us and
[02:35:55.840] and sparks our curiosity. It's basically
[02:35:57.520] what we said last night, right?
[02:35:58.479] >> Yeah. Exactly.
[02:35:59.200] >> So, I want I want to do that. You know,
[02:36:00.720] this is not
[02:36:01.200] >> And to your credit, I did say I like to
[02:36:03.920] focus way more on the truth than people
[02:36:07.680] drama.
[02:36:08.479] >> Right. Right.
[02:36:09.040] >> Because I think it's so much more
[02:36:10.080] interesting. But but it's an important
[02:36:12.640] heristic if a person is also you know a
[02:36:17.439] conduit for information.
[02:36:18.880] >> So people people drama I stay out of
[02:36:21.600] >> but dangerous people I inform everybody
[02:36:26.240] about it
[02:36:27.280] >> because the thing is is that you got to
[02:36:29.840] know who to trust if so you you're not
[02:36:32.000] working in government. I'm not working
[02:36:33.200] in government. So we sign none of these
[02:36:35.359] NDA [ __ ] We don't got to do [ __ ] [ __ ]
[02:36:37.359] all when it comes to UAP stuff, right?
[02:36:39.439] With listening to what people tell us to
[02:36:41.920] do like daddy, right?
[02:36:43.840] >> But the other people do.
[02:36:46.640] >> So the stakes for them are so much
[02:36:48.640] higher. So imagine if there were a bunch
[02:36:50.640] of whistleblowers and they go to the
[02:36:53.120] wrong person to say, "I need to see if
[02:36:56.720] you can get me from embryo to hand to
[02:36:58.560] God and the American public." Right? And
[02:37:01.840] you go to the wrong person.
[02:37:04.399] That could be one of those five traps I
[02:37:07.680] told you.
[02:37:08.240] >> Mhm.
[02:37:08.640] >> And and and then you're controlled.
[02:37:11.280] >> They own you and you're [ __ ]
[02:37:14.960] So if you're outside of this world, that
[02:37:17.680] might feel dramatic to you. The problem
[02:37:19.439] is is that it's true and that is a real
[02:37:23.120] issue. So, let's say you've got I get
[02:37:26.640] photos from people at Wright Patterson
[02:37:28.399] and they've got up on their corkboards,
[02:37:30.720] you know, weaponized stickers, Jesse
[02:37:33.200] Michaels podcast, their favorite people
[02:37:34.800] come up to me on the street and tell me
[02:37:36.640] that they love your podcast. I sent you
[02:37:38.560] videos with some of your fans. So, like
[02:37:42.560] >> you get people in these offices and they
[02:37:44.399] got they're they're just fans, okay?
[02:37:45.920] They don't know much about UFOs, but
[02:37:47.200] they they saw some [ __ ] on radar. This
[02:37:49.280] happened or that happened. Then you
[02:37:50.720] narrow in from those, let's say that's
[02:37:52.880] 5,000 people, right, that have hit me up
[02:37:54.880] in the last year that are inside
[02:37:56.720] government. Then you narrow down. So now
[02:37:59.200] you've got, let's say, 500 people. So
[02:38:02.080] those 500 people, they know something a
[02:38:05.120] little bit more specifically about UAP
[02:38:08.399] and whatnot and the reality. And then
[02:38:10.800] you you narrow down to let's say 50
[02:38:13.200] people. Now they feel like they want to
[02:38:16.399] tell Congress or Senate or or formally
[02:38:18.960] report. I'll get those calls. How do I
[02:38:20.399] formally do this? What's the mechanism?
[02:38:22.240] Who can I trust, not trust? And I'm
[02:38:23.520] like, okay, well, here's how you do it.
[02:38:24.880] I'll link you with them. We'll make a
[02:38:26.240] call. I'll bring you in. If it's really
[02:38:28.479] important, I'll meet you there. We'll do
[02:38:30.080] this. Signal is okay for that. Then you
[02:38:32.479] get from those, what was that, 50
[02:38:34.399] people? You you get in and you narrow
[02:38:37.040] down to, let's say, 10 people. Now,
[02:38:40.800] those 10 people, they know something
[02:38:43.680] more. And those 10 people, they really
[02:38:47.120] need to tell people, but um okay, so you
[02:38:50.479] got to deal with those 10 people. Then
[02:38:52.640] you narrow down to let's say
[02:38:55.520] five people.
[02:38:57.760] The amount of information they have
[02:39:00.160] compared to those 500, 5,000. It's like
[02:39:04.000] critical.
[02:39:05.600] It's provable.
[02:39:07.840] It can be national security um issue. It
[02:39:10.800] could be dangerous.
[02:39:14.000] How hard is it, do you think, for
[02:39:16.240] someone like that to break from the fold
[02:39:19.439] and say, "I have [ __ ] tried
[02:39:21.120] everything. I am now going to leak
[02:39:24.080] something to a journalist I trust, which
[02:39:26.399] is an illegal act,
[02:39:28.880] and I've never solicited." I I actually
[02:39:31.520] tell people if like a young kid called
[02:39:33.359] me from a base and, you know, blah blah
[02:39:35.520] blah, and I go, "Stop. Don't even talk
[02:39:37.760] to me. You got a long career ahead of
[02:39:39.920] you. Whatever you saw or think you saw,
[02:39:42.560] keep it in your head." and one day
[02:39:43.840] you'll be able to speak freely about it.
[02:39:45.600] Do not tell me. You know that joke I
[02:39:47.920] have going right now, don't call me and
[02:39:49.280] I've got that number going to that's
[02:39:51.120] what that's born from.
[02:39:52.560] >> I say to people, don't call me ever
[02:39:55.200] again. Find me in 10 years when we're
[02:39:57.040] living in a different world. You got a
[02:39:58.880] long life ahead of you is not that
[02:40:00.479] important for your life and your family.
[02:40:02.960] But I'm just trying to show you that the
[02:40:05.520] amount of people that know, dude.
[02:40:09.280] But then the amount of people that know
[02:40:11.200] that would think it's so important
[02:40:15.359] to leak something is so minuscule, it's
[02:40:19.200] so tiny that it baffles me to this day
[02:40:23.439] that people all day, every day contact
[02:40:26.960] me and George and they put that trust in
[02:40:29.120] us and they should and we're trustworthy
[02:40:30.960] and and you know we do get leaks, we
[02:40:33.120] assess them for years and we our primary
[02:40:35.920] things do not hurt American security.
[02:40:38.640] I think that's why um we've been
[02:40:40.319] effective. But I'm just trying to show
[02:40:41.840] you, man. Like you talk about a cabal
[02:40:43.920] and all this. I don't know who knows all
[02:40:45.920] this, but I know
[02:40:47.200] >> who doesn't want you to know about it.
[02:40:48.880] >> Yeah.
[02:40:49.920] >> Matthew Brown's super interesting to me,
[02:40:52.160] especially your your interviews with
[02:40:53.760] George Knap and and him. Uh because he
[02:40:57.600] obviously ran into some pretty hardcore,
[02:41:00.240] you know, Immaculate Constellation
[02:41:02.080] documents around quarantining sensors.
[02:41:04.720] >> Yeah. To be real clear, Matthew Brown is
[02:41:07.120] not a leaker. He did everything by the
[02:41:08.960] book cuz we just went from that
[02:41:10.080] conversation.
[02:41:10.640] >> Yeah. Yeah. Not not a segway in my head.
[02:41:13.680] >> Matthew Brown tried to do everything
[02:41:15.760] under God that he could do the the right
[02:41:18.560] way and he did. He got he got prepub
[02:41:21.760] from State Department, you know? So,
[02:41:24.080] it's like just w here we are. Matthew
[02:41:25.760] Brown, you want to say something? Go.
[02:41:27.120] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so he ran into
[02:41:29.920] all this kind of documentation of this
[02:41:31.600] stuff and he saw video and you know,
[02:41:34.800] photos and that sort of thing. Um, and
[02:41:37.760] then he has kind of a whole worldview
[02:41:40.160] that he's kind of associated with his
[02:41:42.640] findings that feels almost like gnostic
[02:41:45.920] in nature. And he talks at the end of
[02:41:47.760] the interview, he says, you know, um,
[02:41:50.000] people are a resource maybe for the NHI.
[02:41:53.520] And he says things that to me are
[02:41:55.920] extremely intriguing because I prefer
[02:41:59.920] actually in some ways like the
[02:42:01.439] sensemaking layer like what's the
[02:42:03.040] worldview what's the ontology that you
[02:42:04.800] know you were talking about earlier that
[02:42:06.479] comes from all the data not just what's
[02:42:08.399] the data uh sometimes I think we we
[02:42:10.640] overindex on the data itself. So I'm
[02:42:13.600] extremely like my curiosity is peaked
[02:42:15.840] and then my other side of my brain is
[02:42:18.800] like but how did he come to that
[02:42:20.640] conclusion?
[02:42:21.359] >> That's a personal thing.
[02:42:22.399] >> Sure. Yeah. So everybody um again I
[02:42:24.960] don't want to speak about people they
[02:42:26.000] should speak about themselves but you
[02:42:27.600] know he has a very fascinating mind. I I
[02:42:30.560] can say that like from his own personal
[02:42:32.640] stuff. The way he um sees
[02:42:36.800] the world is a I mean I learned so much
[02:42:40.080] you know from like a sensei something's
[02:42:42.160] born before in him. uh even if we
[02:42:44.479] disagree on the fundamental nature of
[02:42:46.240] that reality.
[02:42:47.680] >> I think what you're highlighting is that
[02:42:49.840] online he's said some very gnostic kind
[02:42:52.319] of quoting things and
[02:42:54.720] >> yeah that's the way his mind
[02:42:55.840] >> talk about almost like a white house
[02:42:57.520] timeline manipulator too like they have
[02:43:00.080] sort of timeline yeah like they have
[02:43:02.319] some sort of AI timeline thing.
[02:43:05.200] >> Oh really?
[02:43:05.840] >> Yeah. It was like a super super AI at
[02:43:08.479] the White House like
[02:43:09.520] >> we should always be ourselves. Right.
[02:43:11.280] That's the thing I I keep in this
[02:43:12.640] interview. I keep thinking Jesse asked a
[02:43:14.800] question. He's got something to say and
[02:43:16.399] then I say so much. We got to just be
[02:43:19.600] ourselves. Matthew has a very unique way
[02:43:24.880] of thinking. He's so like pointed,
[02:43:28.880] facidious, and he'll he'll be silent a
[02:43:31.120] lot of time on calls and just listening
[02:43:34.000] and then he'll say something and it's
[02:43:35.920] very thought out, very thoughtful. So I
[02:43:39.439] think what you're seeing is what we call
[02:43:41.840] um personality.
[02:43:44.240] >> Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I just Okay.
[02:43:46.479] Well, at some point maybe when this is
[02:43:50.000] all said and done 10 years into the
[02:43:51.680] future of disclosure and it's all
[02:43:53.520] acceptable, I want to go deep with him
[02:43:55.520] or if I can at any point go deep with
[02:43:58.080] him on how did he get from the data to
[02:44:02.560] that worldview because the worldview is
[02:44:04.160] interesting to me. I'm like what you
[02:44:06.080] know what happened there? But um I
[02:44:07.920] realize he's got to he's got to speak
[02:44:09.439] for
[02:44:09.760] >> but I don't think that was from like if
[02:44:11.279] you read the documents
[02:44:12.880] >> Yeah.
[02:44:13.279] >> or saw the videos that he um has
[02:44:16.319] testified to seeing. Right. Not he
[02:44:18.319] hasn't been allowed yet with his hand up
[02:44:19.760] in front of Congress. We fought hard for
[02:44:21.200] that. He didn't want to have his face
[02:44:23.120] out there, you know, at all. Um
[02:44:26.640] >> but I think if you read the same stuff,
[02:44:30.560] cuz I know a lot of people that read and
[02:44:31.840] saw the same stuff and more than he did,
[02:44:33.680] they don't have the same world view.
[02:44:35.760] >> Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not
[02:44:37.200] like in the document.
[02:44:38.000] >> That's just his interpretation.
[02:44:39.520] >> That's what I'm saying.
[02:44:40.319] >> Okay. And I
[02:44:41.680] >> Well, that's helpful. I mean that even
[02:44:43.040] the what you just said is really helpful
[02:44:44.560] that other people have consumed the same
[02:44:46.960] thing and not come to the same world
[02:44:49.200] view.
[02:44:50.319] >> Matthew Brown has has this much of the
[02:44:52.399] mosaic.
[02:44:53.120] >> Yeah.
[02:44:53.600] >> A tiny tiny. All he did was be a
[02:44:56.800] whistleblower.
[02:44:57.760] >> Yeah. But he because there's a lot of
[02:44:59.520] other things that that that he can't
[02:45:01.840] talk about that were weren't there's a
[02:45:04.800] lot of things
[02:45:06.560] corruption
[02:45:08.560] things to do with um WMDs that was his
[02:45:12.640] specialty that that he also whistleblue
[02:45:15.279] on that people don't know about you know
[02:45:17.040] it's just not public. That's freaky. But
[02:45:20.800] um on another note because I'm I'm sure
[02:45:23.920] you can't say more about that. Um and
[02:45:26.640] maybe maybe a good note to to to end on
[02:45:28.960] and and and and close this amazing
[02:45:30.640] conversation. Uh what do you hope for
[02:45:33.520] the world uh you know 10 years from
[02:45:36.160] today you know snapshot of where we are
[02:45:39.120] with respect to this issue specifically?
[02:45:42.319] What do you what do you hope uh to see?
[02:45:46.000] It's like I'm you know I can't look back
[02:45:48.399] but I'm trying to look forward now. was
[02:45:50.000] kind of um
[02:45:52.640] if the truth
[02:45:55.120] is that
[02:45:59.520] they're a technologically advanced craft
[02:46:03.600] that they've been here since the
[02:46:05.120] beginning of recorded human history if
[02:46:07.040] not before
[02:46:09.840] that
[02:46:12.240] major
[02:46:14.160] all the major technological
[02:46:16.560] nations on earth
[02:46:18.800] have started to try to understand
[02:46:22.960] and replicate and grow and evolve from
[02:46:26.800] that technology.
[02:46:28.640] And if the truth is that we've harmed
[02:46:32.960] people and lied,
[02:46:35.840] our representatives have lied to us. And
[02:46:39.439] if that is true
[02:46:41.680] and if we have biological entities that
[02:46:43.920] are not from planet Earth.
[02:46:45.600] >> Have you talked to anybody who's said
[02:46:47.439] they've seen biologics?
[02:46:50.240] >> Yes. In my work 100%.
[02:46:52.319] >> Wow.
[02:46:52.960] >> A ton. But Jesse
[02:46:54.640] >> Yeah.
[02:46:55.439] >> I need more proof and I can't solicit.
[02:46:58.399] >> Sure.
[02:46:59.040] >> As a journalist, a specific word. So of
[02:47:02.319] course, do I believe them?
[02:47:05.359] About half of them. The the top dogs.
[02:47:07.840] Other people, they just want to seem
[02:47:10.319] cool or they want to get into my head
[02:47:12.880] for later.
[02:47:14.720] Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that. Mostly
[02:47:17.840] autopsy reports.
[02:47:19.279] >> Okay.
[02:47:20.080] >> Yeah.
[02:47:20.560] >> Anybody like in person with the
[02:47:22.399] >> people have told me that, Jesse? But
[02:47:24.479] like like actually a public interview I
[02:47:27.359] did once um the anonymous interview um
[02:47:31.279] when I brought Richard Dolan in to
[02:47:33.279] interview this man as he was dying on
[02:47:35.040] like I think it was like a dialysis
[02:47:36.479] machine and we got him out of the thing
[02:47:38.160] and he came his wife didn't want him
[02:47:39.520] there.
[02:47:39.760] >> This Oscar Wolf.
[02:47:40.800] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's his real name, but I
[02:47:42.240] wasn't allowed to release that for like
[02:47:43.520] a long time. I have his DD24.
[02:47:45.920] >> Crazy story. It's fascinating.
[02:47:47.600] >> I had to be real quiet about his real
[02:47:48.880] name for a long time. But it was I have
[02:47:50.160] his DD214s all stuff. I setting up that
[02:47:52.880] interview with Ruben Langden who set up
[02:47:55.200] the entire citizen hearing on
[02:47:56.640] disclosure.
[02:47:57.279] >> He saw one he saw the alien getting
[02:47:59.279] interviewed according to him at at S4
[02:48:02.080] Area 51 I believe at S4
[02:48:06.399] we viewed the autopsy film
[02:48:10.880] and then the colonel said what we've got
[02:48:14.160] in here is we're interviewing
[02:48:17.760] a gray alien
[02:48:20.880] >> bro. Um, that is so in my ancient past.
[02:48:24.160] I'd say just watch the video. My
[02:48:26.240] impression is that um, if I recall, he
[02:48:29.680] was one of the people that I'm saying
[02:48:31.359] that has like said that because you
[02:48:33.120] asked me a live alien. No, not a ton of
[02:48:35.520] people have said to me they they've been
[02:48:37.200] or seen a live alien in government
[02:48:39.359] capacity.
[02:48:40.319] >> Yeah.
[02:48:40.720] >> But versus experience.
[02:48:42.479] >> Yeah. Yeah. But lot of autopsy read outs
[02:48:44.880] and I know which autopsy. So that you
[02:48:46.640] you start narrowing it down after the
[02:48:48.160] years and you know people that don't
[02:48:49.840] know each other have kind of run across
[02:48:51.520] >> enough where you're pretty high
[02:48:52.560] confidence. That's that's a component of
[02:48:54.319] it. Yeah.
[02:48:54.640] >> Oh, we got bodies.
[02:48:55.680] >> But like I don't Are they cybernetic?
[02:48:57.680] Like are they um printed flesh with AI
[02:49:00.640] high [ __ ] minds? I I don't [ __ ]
[02:49:02.479] know. Um
[02:49:03.840] >> but yeah, I think that's the ultimate
[02:49:05.760] thing. So you're ask you were asking me
[02:49:07.120] to go what do I hope? Yeah. What do you
[02:49:08.960] hope? I'm just trying to stay for the
[02:49:10.800] detail. No, no. I'm trying to stay
[02:49:12.800] >> on your track. So it's like
[02:49:17.200] ultimately
[02:49:19.200] if I keep saying if if this is true, if
[02:49:21.600] this is true, this is my best
[02:49:22.720] assessment, right? Then
[02:49:26.000] I would hope
[02:49:28.720] that those tasked
[02:49:32.720] with withholding the fundamental nature
[02:49:36.000] of what it means to be human, which is
[02:49:39.920] to interact with a a larger
[02:49:43.760] idea of of being, would then stand the
[02:49:48.560] [ __ ] down, tell the [ __ ] truth, and
[02:49:51.760] let human beings decide died for them
[02:49:54.160] [ __ ] selves if they can handle it.
[02:49:56.720] That's what I would hope. Now, people
[02:49:59.120] have hoped for disclosure for a long
[02:50:01.680] time, you know, way before me. Before I
[02:50:06.000] was born,
[02:50:07.680] I was born in 77. Before I was born,
[02:50:10.399] none of them got it.
[02:50:12.399] >> Now, we are getting something right now,
[02:50:14.800] but we're not having the conversation.
[02:50:16.960] >> No. But I hope it uh it snowballs. You
[02:50:19.359] know, I think you kind of saw it with
[02:50:21.520] the Epstein stuff. where like a little
[02:50:23.200] bit came out and then people were like,
[02:50:24.720] "Whoa, there's something there." And
[02:50:26.720] then they wanted more and they wanted
[02:50:28.560] more and they wanted more and then you
[02:50:29.680] have all of a sudden representatives in
[02:50:31.439] the civilian, you know, Congress who are
[02:50:33.840] fighting to get more out and you get
[02:50:36.000] more and more documentation
[02:50:38.399] and slowly it just kind of snowballs.
[02:50:40.240] And I think that might be similar with
[02:50:42.240] this topic or JFK or a lot of these
[02:50:44.640] things where the consensus just shifts
[02:50:47.520] over over a long time horizon. Um, so I
[02:50:51.279] while I you can sort of, you know, I
[02:50:53.359] know a lot of people kind of belittled
[02:50:55.040] this drop or think it's a distraction or
[02:50:56.960] whatever, uh, I think it's, uh, the
[02:50:59.359] beginning of infinity. It's not it's not
[02:51:01.200] the end, you know. It's it's the
[02:51:02.720] beginning of a possible paradigm shift.
[02:51:05.600] And that's that's so exciting.
[02:51:07.040] >> The beginning of infinity. I I was
[02:51:09.359] saying it's the floor, not the ceiling.
[02:51:11.439] It is the beginning of infinity. I am
[02:51:14.000] hopeful that we're going to get
[02:51:15.439] somewhere. But the only way we get there
[02:51:17.200] is if we push and we do it
[02:51:18.880] asymmetrically and everybody that has a
[02:51:21.040] voice and everybody that has a desire.
[02:51:24.479] Just use it. Just move. Keep talking.
[02:51:27.279] Don't take nothing personal. Sticks and
[02:51:29.520] stones will break my bones, but words
[02:51:31.279] will never hurt me. Right? Just push.
[02:51:33.840] Push. And I bet you that tomorrow we
[02:51:37.040] will know more um than we do today. I
[02:51:39.359] bet you when people see this, we'll know
[02:51:41.200] more than than we knew the day before.
[02:51:44.000] And um yeah, man, I'm optimistic. I'm
[02:51:46.080] glad to have you in the fight. And
[02:51:47.840] everybody that has a microphone or
[02:51:49.920] thumbs
[02:51:51.600] can just make some noise.
[02:51:53.040] >> On that beautiful inspirational note, go
[02:51:55.439] watch Sleeping Dog, check out
[02:51:57.359] Weaponized, subscribe, and anything else
[02:52:00.080] you want to plug.
[02:52:01.359] >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, I want to say that
[02:52:06.720] it it took a long time for me and Jesse
[02:52:09.040] to to trust each other because trust is
[02:52:11.680] never given. It's always it's always
[02:52:13.840] earned and then it's it's built and then
[02:52:16.640] every day you keep reinforcing, you
[02:52:19.600] know, to the the trick of being
[02:52:21.520] trustworthy is to to to actually be
[02:52:23.600] trustworthy. And so I'm I'm grateful
[02:52:25.680] that we get this um construct the room
[02:52:29.359] and and we get to do this for the first
[02:52:31.279] time and that you know we will continue
[02:52:35.120] this dialogue until we're old old men.
[02:52:39.760] >> That's what I kept thinking this whole
[02:52:40.960] conference is so fun and you know I
[02:52:42.800] would love to run it back. So
[02:52:44.000] >> yeah. But just keep fighting, keep
[02:52:45.359] pushing, keep doing what you're doing
[02:52:46.720] and I would like to do a um twominute
[02:52:50.000] rapid fire because I have questions for
[02:52:51.520] you. You can put it in your episode or
[02:52:53.200] not.
[02:52:53.600] >> Sure. Yeah.
[02:52:54.160] >> So, this is back and forth,
[02:52:55.920] >> rapid fire.
[02:52:56.800] >> Okay.
[02:52:57.680] >> Okay.
[02:52:58.640] >> Um,
[02:53:00.479] did you start this what you're doing
[02:53:03.439] with the intention to try to get
[02:53:07.040] information to the public that you
[02:53:09.120] thought was important?
[02:53:10.080] >> Yes.
[02:53:12.560] >> Are you independent or are you
[02:53:15.040] controlled?
[02:53:15.840] >> Independent.
[02:53:16.640] >> I know.
[02:53:19.040] Um,
[02:53:20.800] do you have
[02:53:23.040] people that support you in your life so
[02:53:25.439] that you'll keep going?
[02:53:27.120] >> Like loved ones and
[02:53:28.960] >> Yes.
[02:53:29.439] >> Yeah, I do. Yeah.
[02:53:30.640] >> Okay.
[02:53:32.720] >> Have you found friends that you really
[02:53:35.120] trust at this point in this part of your
[02:53:36.880] journey?
[02:53:37.439] >> I have. Yeah.
[02:53:38.240] >> On this topic.
[02:53:38.880] >> I had before this I
[02:53:40.960] >> on this topic.
[02:53:41.760] >> On this topic. Yeah. Yes. For sure.
[02:53:44.080] Yeah.
[02:53:45.359] >> Will you protect that?
[02:53:46.880] >> Always. Yeah. Before anything, before
[02:53:50.160] you know relationships, over over
[02:53:52.399] anything,
[02:53:53.200] >> will you tell the truth if you find out
[02:53:55.439] something is incorrect and will you tell
[02:53:57.760] it loudly?
[02:53:58.720] >> Oh, yeah.
[02:54:00.560] >> I believe you.
[02:54:01.680] >> Thank you, Jeremy. I'm glad I passed the
[02:54:04.160] test.
[02:54:04.720] >> It's not a test. I like I learned those
[02:54:06.960] things about you through time.
[02:54:08.880] >> Yeah.
[02:54:09.279] >> But now maybe people learn it about you
[02:54:11.120] because you just told it how it is.
[02:54:12.880] >> Yeah. I love it.
[02:54:13.520] >> There we go. You got a, you know, a lot
[02:54:14.960] of people that, you know, are suspicious
[02:54:18.000] of you.
[02:54:18.880] >> I know.
[02:54:19.680] >> And, um, I was.
[02:54:21.600] >> Yeah. Fair enough.
[02:54:22.800] >> Yeah.
[02:54:23.120] >> But here we are.
[02:54:23.840] >> Here we are. It's frustrating to me. And
[02:54:26.960] it it's so it makes me want to quit
[02:54:28.560] sometimes cuz it's like uh it's like
[02:54:31.520] [ __ ] Like what what do you do? You
[02:54:33.040] know, like it's a the offense on a
[02:54:35.439] conspiracy about yourself is always
[02:54:36.960] going to beat the defense. Like you can
[02:54:38.479] always say [ __ ] about me and whatever.
[02:54:42.080] And so I c I can always say you're
[02:54:43.920] wrong, you know, you're you're just
[02:54:45.200] wrong and I can point to the facts, but
[02:54:47.200] then you can always construct a new
[02:54:48.720] thing. And so, you know, it's like uh
[02:54:53.279] yeah, it's tough. I don't know that is a
[02:54:55.359] reality is that people do want to quit.
[02:54:58.000] And that is the work of a very organized
[02:55:01.200] attempt sometimes. Sometimes. And we
[02:55:04.880] need to identify that and we need to
[02:55:06.720] bring it into the light. and you're not
[02:55:08.560] gonna quit because you told me just now
[02:55:10.240] that you do have people that love you
[02:55:11.840] and support you about keep going
[02:55:13.920] >> and it feels it feels like a mission
[02:55:16.160] that's higher than me. So that's why I
[02:55:19.200] the part that wants to quit is like the
[02:55:22.000] ego that wants to remain intact and like
[02:55:24.640] wants to stay out of the limelight.
[02:55:26.240] >> Fight or flight. You want you don't want
[02:55:27.439] to be in pain.
[02:55:28.160] >> In pain. Yeah. And like part of life.
[02:55:30.800] And you mentioned stuff around um you
[02:55:33.439] know your your personal life being
[02:55:35.359] encroached on. I've had similar things.
[02:55:37.439] Yes.
[02:55:37.760] >> That freaked me out and I'm like and
[02:55:40.240] then so it's it's funny to see that
[02:55:42.000] simultaneously
[02:55:48.960] you have people calling you a spook and
[02:55:50.720] it's like you're you're uh be on both
[02:55:54.000] you're being flanked and I'm like I'm
[02:55:57.120] not a [ __ ] spook and go the [ __ ] away
[02:56:00.160] and just let me you know and and uh
[02:56:03.120] >> and yeah and and I'm sure you feel
[02:56:05.359] sympathetic to this as Well, there's so
[02:56:07.600] much that you put out that they they
[02:56:10.399] wouldn't even be into this [ __ ] if you
[02:56:11.920] hadn't had put the thing out.
[02:56:13.760] >> So, they're [ __ ] using your lexicon
[02:56:15.520] and all the stuff you bring out. They're
[02:56:17.359] taking that, but then they're throwing
[02:56:19.920] you in the garbage or whatever. And it's
[02:56:21.840] like, [ __ ] off. Like,
[02:56:24.479] >> so the thing is, it's not about you. I
[02:56:26.640] know. It's not about me.
[02:56:27.680] >> It's not.
[02:56:28.160] >> And I've got tunnel vision. So, I'm
[02:56:30.000] seeing you right now. I don't see
[02:56:31.680] nothing else. You You got to do that.
[02:56:33.680] But I'm going to crack you on one thing.
[02:56:34.640] and I hope you find it useful later.
[02:56:36.399] Okay.
[02:56:36.720] >> Okay.
[02:56:37.520] >> Which is that you said something about
[02:56:39.920] defense and you said something about
[02:56:41.520] like when you're getting all these
[02:56:42.880] attacks from every side and people make
[02:56:44.319] you want to quit. Okay. Then they win if
[02:56:46.880] you quit. Now quit. If you find a
[02:56:49.760] beautiful girl and you want an island
[02:56:51.200] and just like go live over there, you
[02:56:52.880] don't need to be doing this. I know that
[02:56:54.240] about you. You don't need to be doing
[02:56:56.560] this. I don't need to be doing this.
[02:56:58.960] Right?
[02:57:00.560] But I can. So I will. So the one thing I
[02:57:04.640] want to correct you on is the best
[02:57:07.840] defense is to outpace, out maneuver, and
[02:57:11.680] outperform. Never look back ne unless
[02:57:15.359] you're reflecting, but your mom and dad
[02:57:16.880] and brothers and sisters and your
[02:57:18.240] friends will tell you if you're being a
[02:57:19.439] [ __ ] and an idiot and help you
[02:57:20.880] self-reflect. So they're better at it
[02:57:22.319] than you anyway, right? So you look
[02:57:24.160] forward, you keep going. If you want out
[02:57:26.319] at any time, make it your own choice.
[02:57:28.720] The best thing you do when you're
[02:57:30.399] getting attacked is don't look back.
[02:57:32.800] Keep moving forward. Don't think about
[02:57:34.960] those attacks. Don't let them in. Don't
[02:57:36.399] penetrate them. They don't know you and
[02:57:38.640] they don't own you. You're independent.
[02:57:41.600] [ __ ] fight. We need you. I appreciate
[02:57:44.319] that.
[02:57:45.040] >> Well, thank you, Jeremy.
[02:57:46.240] >> Love you, buddy. Good to see
[02:57:47.120] >> you, too, man.
[02:57:48.080] >> Damn. Oh, that was great.
[02:57:50.160] >> That was so cool.
[02:57:54.640] >> If you've made it this far in the show,
[02:57:56.720] then I know you care enough to hear
[02:57:58.960] about this. Our show, American Alchemy,
[02:58:00.960] is growing super fast. It's bursting at
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