Bill Ray, Psychic Spy

• Source: Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World, episode 190, published by StarQuest Media on YouTube
• Speakers: Jimmy Akin, Domenico Bettinelli, and William G. "Bill" Ray
• Published: 2022-01-21
• Runtime: 1:02:54
• URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67KWdhxmWYc
• Audio: 3,774.450 seconds, 36,584,308 bytes, SHA-256 78f0b4dd36799f6a6dec642093fac97f5e52a29bada114a266b42ccfff75bb55
• Transcription: FreeTranscribe.org production pipeline, submitted through /code/transcribe on 2026-09-09. NVIDIA Parakeet TDT 0.6B v3 revision 7c35754d166cca382ad1e53e68b01e7c575f3a1d, model-weight SHA-256 3cbdc85877e668ca7b82d0d56770eb1fac76691f55d6b97545e8d61ca588d10d, artifact schema 2.
• Diarization: pyannote Community-1 revision 3533c8cf8e369892e6b79ff1bf80f7b0286a54ee returned three anonymous speaker clusters. Exact production timing and diarization remain in /code/transcribe/bill-ray-jimmy-akin-history-2022-01-21-production.segments.json.
• Transcript body: complete English YouTube captions retrieved on 2026-09-09 and compared against the production transcript. The caption body preserves timestamps and several short passages omitted by the production recognition. Both versions and the audio are retained under /code/transcribe/bill-ray-jimmy-akin-history-2022-01-21-*.
• Sourced: 2026-09-09
• Analysis: ../../sources/william-g-bill-ray

This is an automated caption transcript and may contain errors in names, acronyms, numbers, and punctuation. Consult the recording and retained production artifacts before quoting.

TL;DW

William G. "Bill" Ray describes entering the Army in 1959, moving into military intelligence and counterintelligence, joining the Fort Meade remote-viewing unit in January 1984, training under Ingo Swann, and becoming its commander during the transfer from Army INSCOM to DIA. He explains controlled and extended remote viewing, says monitors assembled reports from multiple viewers, and credits the unit's missing "Red Book" with showing unusually high customer ratings. Ray also concedes that remote viewing handled search problems poorly, that the General Dozier account was relayed to him by people involved, and that the unit's reports could be difficult to verify for years.

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[00:00:00.880] jimmy akin's mysterious world is brought
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[00:00:07.040] generous patrons
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[00:00:13.519] give
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[00:00:16.720] brought to you in part through the
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[00:00:28.080] making connections for life for your
[00:00:29.679] automation and smart home needs in north
[00:00:32.320] and central florida you're listening to
[00:00:34.800] episode 190 of jimmy akins mysterious
[00:00:38.000] world where we look at mysteries from
[00:00:40.000] the twin perspectives of faith and
[00:00:42.079] reason
[00:00:43.200] in this episode we're talking about
[00:00:45.039] major bill ray and his career as a
[00:00:47.680] psychic spy
[00:00:49.200] i'm dom bethanelli and joining me today
[00:00:51.280] is jimmy aiken hi jimmy howdy dom
[00:00:54.559] from the 1970s to the 1990s the u.s
[00:00:57.440] defense department conducted a psychic
[00:00:59.359] spying program that came to be known as
[00:01:01.600] stargate
[00:01:02.879] it was headquartered out of fort meade
[00:01:04.720] maryland and relied on a psychic ability
[00:01:07.040] called remote viewing
[00:01:09.119] one of the psychic spies who served at
[00:01:10.960] fort meade was major bill ray
[00:01:13.600] for a time he also served as commander
[00:01:15.759] of the unit
[00:01:16.799] so who is major ray what role did he
[00:01:19.280] play in stargate and what can he tell us
[00:01:21.680] about remote viewing
[00:01:23.439] that's what we'll be talking about on
[00:01:24.640] this episode of jimmy aiken's mysterious
[00:01:27.040] world
[00:01:28.320] jimmy what should we say to begin
[00:01:30.400] first i'm very happy to be able to do
[00:01:32.240] this interview and i want to say a
[00:01:33.840] special word of thanks to paul smith who
[00:01:36.079] listeners will remember from episodes
[00:01:38.159] 156 and 157 where we interviewed him
[00:01:41.360] about his own career in stargate paul
[00:01:43.840] very kindly put me in touch with bill
[00:01:45.600] ray so i wanted to say thanks to him
[00:01:48.000] also this will be a two-parter in
[00:01:49.840] today's episode we'll be talking with
[00:01:51.520] major ray about his career with the
[00:01:53.759] remote viewing project as well as some
[00:01:56.079] about how remote viewing is thought to
[00:01:58.159] work
[00:01:59.040] then we'll arrive at a bit of a
[00:02:01.040] cliffhanger where i start to ask him
[00:02:03.280] about the most terrifying remote viewing
[00:02:06.399] experience he ever had
[00:02:08.879] which involved a massive simultaneous
[00:02:12.160] ufo abduction
[00:02:14.319] so you'll want to listen again next week
[00:02:16.560] to find out all about that but there's
[00:02:18.640] lots of good stuff we'll be covering
[00:02:20.400] this week what things should people be
[00:02:23.520] listening for in today's interview with
[00:02:25.040] major ray
[00:02:26.319] he mentions the names of a few men that
[00:02:29.200] you may want to be aware of early in the
[00:02:31.440] interview he mentions a man named skip
[00:02:33.440] atwater atwater originally reported a
[00:02:36.400] bill but he went on to play a key role
[00:02:38.879] in founding the stargate program and he
[00:02:41.120] recruited bill into it
[00:02:43.360] later he mentions major general james
[00:02:46.000] dozier who in 1981
[00:02:48.879] was living in verona italy when he was
[00:02:51.440] kidnapped by the italian red brigade a
[00:02:54.080] communist terrorist group
[00:02:56.319] the terrorists held general dozier in
[00:02:58.800] padua italy in the interview bill
[00:03:01.200] pronounces padua a couple of ways but
[00:03:03.280] it's padua as in saint anthony of padua
[00:03:06.560] that we're talking about
[00:03:08.159] he also mentions lieutenant general
[00:03:10.560] william odom who was a prominent critic
[00:03:13.599] of stargate and opposed the program so
[00:03:16.879] those are the names to listen for skip
[00:03:18.640] out water james dozier and william odom
[00:03:23.120] in the interview you discuss a couple of
[00:03:25.120] methods of doing remote viewing known as
[00:03:27.680] crv and erv what are these
[00:03:31.599] crv is a method that was originally
[00:03:33.760] developed by ingo swan and hal put off
[00:03:36.400] if you want to hear about it you can go
[00:03:37.840] back and listen to episodes 102 and 103.
[00:03:41.440] in crv you use a series of up to six
[00:03:45.280] structured stages to try to retrieve
[00:03:48.239] information about a target that you've
[00:03:50.000] been assigned to view you're typically
[00:03:52.159] blind to the target meaning you don't
[00:03:54.000] know what it is but you're supposed to
[00:03:56.000] be able to psychically obtain
[00:03:57.680] impressions of the target what it looks
[00:03:59.840] like and so forth
[00:04:01.519] originally the initials crv stood for
[00:04:05.280] coordinate remote viewing because you
[00:04:08.080] were given the geographical coordinates
[00:04:10.480] the longitude and latitude of the target
[00:04:13.519] but today the initials stand for
[00:04:15.519] controlled remote viewing and as we'll
[00:04:18.639] hear major ray played a key role in
[00:04:22.320] jettisoning the geographical coordinates
[00:04:25.680] from the technique
[00:04:27.440] and what about erv
[00:04:29.759] erv stands for extended remote viewing
[00:04:32.960] in an erv exercise you lie down relax
[00:04:36.639] and try to get to the point where you're
[00:04:39.280] almost asleep but not quite while in
[00:04:42.560] this relaxed state you try to acquire
[00:04:44.800] psychic impressions of the target
[00:04:46.880] erv is more of a free form method and
[00:04:50.080] doesn't use the same series of six
[00:04:52.400] controlled stages that crv does
[00:04:55.600] major ray was trained by ingo swan in
[00:04:58.240] crv
[00:04:59.440] but after he started working at fort
[00:05:01.520] meade he began doing erv as well so
[00:05:04.639] those are some of the basic things
[00:05:06.000] people should be listening for
[00:05:08.240] not all of our listeners may be familiar
[00:05:10.160] with remote viewing where should they go
[00:05:12.080] for more information
[00:05:13.840] we've discussed remote viewing a number
[00:05:15.440] of times on the program but one of the
[00:05:17.039] best places to go is back to episodes
[00:05:19.280] 102 and 103 where we covered the basics
[00:05:22.880] in those episodes we looked at the
[00:05:24.560] scientific evidence concerning remote
[00:05:26.320] viewing so you can make up your own mind
[00:05:28.720] of whether you find it credible we also
[00:05:31.039] covered it from the faith perspective
[00:05:33.199] and for more on the faith perspective
[00:05:35.039] you may wish to check out episodes 105
[00:05:37.919] and 106 on thomas st thomas aquinas and
[00:05:40.800] the occult where we discussed the fact
[00:05:43.120] that even saints and doctors of the
[00:05:45.360] church like saint augustine and saint
[00:05:47.919] thomas aquinas believed that god built
[00:05:51.120] weak natural abilities into human nature
[00:05:54.960] that we would today classify as psychic
[00:05:57.120] abilities so listen to 105 and 106 for a
[00:06:01.280] detailed look at the faith perspective
[00:06:03.600] on psychic and other unusual phenomena
[00:06:07.360] before we get to the interview with
[00:06:09.199] major ray we'd like to take a moment to
[00:06:10.960] thank our patrons who make this show
[00:06:12.560] possible including fonseca b mary c
[00:06:16.000] jeffrey m richard h and michael f
[00:06:19.520] their generous donations at
[00:06:21.639] sqpn.com
[00:06:23.199] give make it possible for us to continue
[00:06:25.759] jimmy aiken's mysterious world and all
[00:06:27.919] the shows at starquest you can join them
[00:06:30.160] by visiting
[00:06:31.479] sqpn.com
[00:06:33.280] give jimmy aiken's mysterious world is
[00:06:35.840] also brought to you in part by catechism
[00:06:37.840] class a dynamic weekly podcast journey
[00:06:40.800] through the catechism of the catholic
[00:06:42.479] church by greg and jennifer willits it's
[00:06:45.199] the best book club coffee talk and faith
[00:06:47.919] study group all rolled into one find it
[00:06:50.800] in any podcast directory
[00:06:53.680] and without further ado here's part one
[00:06:55.440] of our interview with major bill ray
[00:06:57.840] bill ray is a veteran of five wartime
[00:07:00.960] tours in iraq kuwait and afghanistan he
[00:07:04.720] is a retired army major and department
[00:07:07.520] of defense civilian with more than 50
[00:07:09.759] years of combined federal government
[00:07:12.400] service as an intelligence and
[00:07:14.319] counterintelligence offer he is one of
[00:07:16.800] five stargate military remote viewers
[00:07:19.120] trained by hal puthoff and ingo swann
[00:07:21.440] the developers of remote viewing
[00:07:23.759] after joe mcmonagle's departure bill
[00:07:25.759] became the primary remote viewer using
[00:07:28.400] extended remote viewing or erv
[00:07:31.680] at the fort meade unit while continuing
[00:07:34.639] to work operational and training targets
[00:07:37.199] using controlled remote viewing or crv
[00:07:40.880] from 1985 to 1987 he served as the
[00:07:44.400] commander of the fort meade psychic
[00:07:46.319] spying unit he has a bachelor's degree
[00:07:49.280] in history from the state university of
[00:07:51.440] new york and a master's degree in
[00:07:53.680] international relations from the
[00:07:55.440] university of southern california he
[00:07:57.680] currently resides in wisconsin welcome
[00:08:00.560] to the program major ray
[00:08:02.479] thank you jimmy pleasure to be here
[00:08:04.479] thank you for having me thank you also
[00:08:06.560] for your service to our country you're
[00:08:08.720] welcome it's a privilege to serve
[00:08:12.639] can you tell us about your background uh
[00:08:15.680] what it was like growing up your family
[00:08:18.000] what you were doing before the uh before
[00:08:20.800] uh the your rv career things like that
[00:08:23.599] ah okay i uh i'm
[00:08:27.120] the oldest of seven children
[00:08:30.000] uh i was born in santa monica california
[00:08:33.200] before the war world war two
[00:08:36.800] i i had uh two brothers four sisters i'm
[00:08:40.479] eight years old and the next oldest one
[00:08:42.640] because of the war
[00:08:44.080] dad went away and mom had several
[00:08:46.000] problems after that
[00:08:49.279] attended catholic school raised by the
[00:08:51.600] nuns for the first eight years and
[00:08:54.000] through high school i was taught by the
[00:08:56.000] brothers of st patrick
[00:08:58.080] all of them were from the old sod
[00:09:02.959] after graduation i went in the military
[00:09:05.600] ended up in in the infantry
[00:09:10.000] airborne paratrooper
[00:09:14.080] volunteered and got accepted into ranger
[00:09:16.160] school
[00:09:17.200] graduated from that
[00:09:19.519] well my tour was timeless services up i
[00:09:22.560] got out of the army i still had
[00:09:26.399] reserved time to do a little obligation
[00:09:28.730] [Music]
[00:09:31.600] went to work
[00:09:34.240] at a grocery wholesaler started
[00:09:36.399] downloading boxcars then moved into the
[00:09:38.560] office met my wife
[00:09:41.120] sandy glenn
[00:09:43.200] in a
[00:09:45.040] uh we got married uh
[00:09:47.279] i missed the army went back into the
[00:09:49.279] army ended up in the mps briefly
[00:09:53.120] volunteered for military intelligence
[00:09:55.680] got accepted
[00:09:57.600] they sent me to german language school
[00:10:00.240] ended up in germany came back went to
[00:10:03.040] officer candidate school at the time i
[00:10:04.720] was a staff sergeant
[00:10:07.120] going through ocs officer candidate
[00:10:09.519] school i was almost 33 next oldest
[00:10:12.320] person in class was
[00:10:14.079] 26.
[00:10:16.240] halfway through the course they
[00:10:18.399] they uh dropped the age limit to uh
[00:10:22.720] 26 to be commissioned so i was
[00:10:25.279] grandfathered in but if anything
[00:10:27.120] happened it couldn't be recycled so
[00:10:29.680] as a result i became
[00:10:31.519] literally the oldest lieutenant captain
[00:10:33.519] and major in the army for
[00:10:35.440] a while
[00:10:39.120] after ocs i went back to fort huachuca
[00:10:41.680] taught at the school
[00:10:43.920] where
[00:10:44.800] one of the people working for me was
[00:10:47.120] skip atwater was a staff sergeant at the
[00:10:49.600] time and another person was uh
[00:10:54.320] rob
[00:10:55.279] hartley and
[00:10:56.800] they were my two uh ncos i talked them
[00:10:59.600] both into going to officer candidate
[00:11:01.600] school
[00:11:02.640] uh i sent skip app water to ocs uh he
[00:11:05.760] went away to fort benning came back to
[00:11:08.240] fort wachuka
[00:11:09.519] they were required to go through
[00:11:12.240] the basic officer course so
[00:11:15.760] skip went through i instructed him in a
[00:11:17.839] couple courses
[00:11:19.920] when he was getting ready uh he came
[00:11:22.240] down on orders for fort meade as an
[00:11:24.959] opposite officer which is a
[00:11:27.200] very boring job for a
[00:11:30.000] a counter intelligence officer
[00:11:32.480] so uh skip and i went out held one last
[00:11:35.200] beer together
[00:11:36.640] i thought i would never see him again i
[00:11:38.959] was a german linguist
[00:11:41.040] skip was a spanish linguist
[00:11:44.079] so uh
[00:11:45.279] our careers probably weren't going to
[00:11:47.519] cross over later
[00:11:50.800] skip went to fort meade and that that's
[00:11:53.360] how the project eventually got started
[00:11:56.639] he uh
[00:11:58.639] was doing operational security of units
[00:12:01.600] addressing their problems how they could
[00:12:03.680] be more secure
[00:12:05.519] and uh
[00:12:07.040] one of the commanders there believe was
[00:12:08.560] a colonel last jim uh he'd seen a
[00:12:10.639] program on soviet remote viewing and
[00:12:13.279] wanted to know how he could protect
[00:12:15.120] himself against that
[00:12:16.800] skip brought her back went up and asked
[00:12:18.560] the commanding general of the
[00:12:19.920] intelligence and security command who
[00:12:22.320] told him to research it
[00:12:24.720] he did
[00:12:27.360] figured out kind of how to do it
[00:12:30.079] started off
[00:12:31.360] actually the project that for me started
[00:12:33.760] off as a defensive project
[00:12:36.000] people don't know it rapidly
[00:12:40.000] morphed into a a collection activity
[00:12:43.920] and you joined uh the fort meade program
[00:12:46.800] in 1984 how did that happen did you get
[00:12:49.360] a call from skip or i'm pretty sure they
[00:12:52.079] don't have uncle sam wants you to be a
[00:12:54.160] psychic spy poster
[00:12:56.320] unfortunately not no strange enough uh i
[00:12:59.600] went to germany after teaching at the
[00:13:01.440] intelligence course skip was honored for
[00:13:03.519] me
[00:13:04.959] i went to germany uh spent a year in
[00:13:07.440] munich they had a command slot open up
[00:13:10.240] in augsburg for the counter-intelligence
[00:13:12.320] field office for western barbaria i put
[00:13:15.360] him forward and was chosen i spent three
[00:13:17.920] years up there and then i went back to
[00:13:20.160] uh to the captain's course
[00:13:22.399] so i was going at a very late date to
[00:13:24.720] the captain's court skip
[00:13:26.800] ended up going that to the same course
[00:13:29.279] and we ended up
[00:13:30.800] because we both had a lot of kids living
[00:13:32.880] across the street from each other so we
[00:13:35.200] got back in contact
[00:13:38.160] obviously the
[00:13:39.680] the project at the time was it was a
[00:13:42.160] special access program
[00:13:45.040] abbreviated to sap so we could he
[00:13:47.839] couldn't tell me about it
[00:13:49.680] but
[00:13:51.040] after the uh after we both graduated
[00:13:53.440] from the course i stayed at what you
[00:13:55.760] became the intelligence officer for a
[00:13:57.839] cigna per day
[00:13:59.360] for uh about 18 months my only
[00:14:01.760] non-counter intelligence really
[00:14:04.560] non-civilian closed assignment except
[00:14:06.560] for
[00:14:07.920] combat assignments
[00:14:09.760] then
[00:14:10.880] skip came out
[00:14:12.240] talked to me one day from fort meade and
[00:14:14.240] uh brought revenue onto the program
[00:14:17.600] i talked to my wife look i couldn't tell
[00:14:19.680] sandy what it was about but
[00:14:22.399] she uh she
[00:14:23.920] agreed and we ended up at fort meade in
[00:14:26.480] january 3rd
[00:14:28.839] 1984 after uh you joined the program you
[00:14:32.000] were then trained in remote viewing uh
[00:14:34.480] or specifically in what was then called
[00:14:36.959] coordinate remote viewing later
[00:14:38.800] controlled remote viewing yeah we're
[00:14:40.480] trained by ingo swan
[00:14:42.639] what was ingo like and what was the
[00:14:44.720] training like what was he like as a
[00:14:46.160] teacher
[00:14:48.480] ingle was a
[00:14:50.480] actually a a
[00:14:52.639] fantastic individual
[00:14:55.279] the uh they are training
[00:14:57.680] very
[00:14:59.600] we would spend a couple weeks out at san
[00:15:01.600] francisco
[00:15:02.880] palo alto if you all stanford research
[00:15:04.880] institute and then back at fort meade we
[00:15:07.680] would spend every other week up in new
[00:15:09.839] york being trained by ingo and the
[00:15:11.920] following week down at fort meade and
[00:15:14.000] then back and forth so
[00:15:15.760] we did that there were four of us in my
[00:15:17.920] group and then there was tom mcnair who
[00:15:20.560] would be going the the odd which he
[00:15:22.639] started before we did he started with
[00:15:24.560] rob hartley the uh who would also work
[00:15:26.880] with me with skip
[00:15:28.560] and i also sent to ocs i actually got
[00:15:31.680] rid of all my best instructors working
[00:15:33.680] for me
[00:15:35.440] but uh unfortunately rob came down with
[00:15:37.920] with cancer and ultimately passed away
[00:15:41.279] so uh tom was on his own and the four of
[00:15:43.920] us charlene schufeld myself
[00:15:46.720] paul smith and ed james we're the
[00:15:49.040] traveling team going back and forth
[00:15:51.440] now
[00:15:53.519] from the reading i've done and also some
[00:15:55.680] personal knowledge
[00:15:57.199] the four of you can well ingo himself
[00:16:00.000] seems to have been a kind of colorful
[00:16:01.519] character
[00:16:02.560] yes
[00:16:03.759] he he could be a little abrupt he has a
[00:16:07.600] lot of interesting uh ideas
[00:16:11.680] and and you know any anytime a person
[00:16:14.480] reads about ingo they'll encounter that
[00:16:16.079] kind of stuff
[00:16:17.360] in reading about your training group the
[00:16:20.240] four of you uh bill ray
[00:16:22.639] ed dames paul smith and charlene
[00:16:25.440] schufeld then charlene cavanaugh yes
[00:16:28.720] at least three of you
[00:16:30.560] seem to be a little colorful yourselves
[00:16:33.199] now charlene i've never heard anybody
[00:16:35.519] say
[00:16:36.399] she was particularly she seems the most
[00:16:38.399] even keeled in some ways
[00:16:41.040] in some way she was yes she was kind of
[00:16:43.440] an odd man out in some ways
[00:16:45.680] uh yeah yeah you mentioned inga was
[00:16:48.839] terrifying uh-huh well tell me about
[00:16:51.279] ingo first then i dearly loved dingo but
[00:16:54.320] angel was very scary when he was down
[00:16:57.120] sitting at the on the other end of the
[00:16:59.360] table and
[00:17:02.320] when something just wouldn't come yeah
[00:17:05.280] it was very
[00:17:06.640] he'd be frustrated i'd be frustrated and
[00:17:10.720] yet
[00:17:13.039] just kind of went from there but uh
[00:17:15.360] i i learned early on
[00:17:17.679] to volunteer to be the first person to
[00:17:20.079] go in
[00:17:21.439] and i would go in and get it out of the
[00:17:23.120] way
[00:17:25.280] i i did well
[00:17:27.199] by
[00:17:29.280] partly because of ed and paul mainly
[00:17:32.160] mainly ed dings
[00:17:34.080] because edward was always getting ingo
[00:17:36.720] mad so that
[00:17:38.799] that got him off my back and when ed
[00:17:41.039] didn't paul seemed to have a tendency to
[00:17:43.840] to rile engle to not not as bad as that
[00:17:46.559] did
[00:17:47.679] but
[00:17:48.720] that was that was very interesting
[00:17:51.200] actually that dame is is
[00:17:54.000] probably the most left-brained person
[00:17:56.720] you will ever meet and that's an issue
[00:17:59.200] in remote viewing because the idea is
[00:18:01.600] you want to
[00:18:02.799] diminish what your analytical
[00:18:06.240] brain functions are in order to let the
[00:18:08.559] intuitive right brain information come
[00:18:11.280] through from the target yes
[00:18:13.360] perfectly and
[00:18:15.120] ed had to have closure
[00:18:18.240] every day
[00:18:19.360] and i i'm not exaggerating when i say
[00:18:21.919] when i came into work in the morning
[00:18:23.760] when ed came in and he
[00:18:26.640] needed to go outside and we'd talk and
[00:18:28.480] he would literally tell me the meaning
[00:18:30.240] of life
[00:18:32.480] and then we'd go in and the next day it
[00:18:35.280] would happen again he had got some more
[00:18:37.679] information the previous day so he would
[00:18:40.080] tell me the meaning of life
[00:18:42.400] and
[00:18:43.360] it became
[00:18:44.400] pretty much a a a rite of passage that
[00:18:47.360] every morning that would tell me the
[00:18:48.799] meaning of life
[00:18:50.160] because he had gotten some more
[00:18:51.520] information the day before so he had to
[00:18:53.840] have closure on that so his
[00:18:56.160] understanding of the meaning of life
[00:18:57.600] kept changing from day to day yes yeah
[00:19:01.280] a little each time now
[00:19:03.760] i i would think the first three weeks of
[00:19:06.000] training with ingo we
[00:19:08.240] didn't do remote viewing engel
[00:19:11.360] basically
[00:19:13.520] gave us a
[00:19:16.240] a history of of uh
[00:19:19.280] psychic research going back to the 14th
[00:19:22.480] 15th century grandfather
[00:19:24.720] and
[00:19:25.520] providing if not a scientifically say
[00:19:28.160] pseudoscientific background
[00:19:30.960] for remote viewing which uh i think ed
[00:19:34.320] had to have with his left brain paul
[00:19:37.039] that's kind of a scientific bin at times
[00:19:38.880] too though he's very right-brained so he
[00:19:41.200] needed that charlene could care less i
[00:19:43.679] am ivory sheep he told me
[00:19:46.000] it's magic then yeah we could have saved
[00:19:48.799] three weeks
[00:19:52.080] in
[00:19:53.760] so among the four of you uh at least two
[00:19:57.440] ed dames and paul smith have written
[00:20:00.799] books and they both have
[00:20:04.200] characterizations of what you were like
[00:20:07.120] uh when they first met you
[00:20:09.600] in ed dames's book tell me what you see
[00:20:13.120] he says this he says rey meaning you
[00:20:16.080] was was also a californian like me a
[00:20:19.600] smooth counterintelligence man straight
[00:20:22.159] out of central casting with his mustache
[00:20:24.799] and dark hair splashed with just the
[00:20:26.799] right amount of grey around the temples
[00:20:29.120] a devoted pipe smoker with an equal
[00:20:31.679] devotion to beer and bad music
[00:20:34.640] he insisted the hundred mile drive from
[00:20:37.280] fort meade to the monroe institute would
[00:20:39.600] be no problem for him despite an
[00:20:42.080] agonizing back problem he had suffered
[00:20:44.400] years earlier in a parachute jump mishap
[00:20:47.120] he was just happy to be there he said so
[00:20:49.679] was i ed says so he gives a little bit
[00:20:52.559] of flavor for you there then paul
[00:20:55.360] in his book reading the enemy's mind
[00:20:58.400] says bill ray showed up at fred that
[00:21:00.960] skip at waters uh driveway the first
[00:21:03.200] week in january unfolding his lanky
[00:21:05.919] frame from the front seat of a black
[00:21:08.159] subaru station wagon out of the tailgate
[00:21:11.440] and every other door of the small car
[00:21:14.480] kids erupted the rays were a large happy
[00:21:17.679] family so he he mentions uh i've heard
[00:21:21.039] paul on other occasions mention he
[00:21:22.640] doesn't know how that you got that many
[00:21:24.320] kids in the car
[00:21:26.240] how many was it at the time by the way
[00:21:28.080] uh i think it was five at that time okay
[00:21:31.200] uh then a little bit uh later on paul
[00:21:33.440] writes that in 1987
[00:21:35.840] some old hands were preparing to leave
[00:21:38.320] one of the first to go at the end of
[00:21:40.240] june was bill ray with orders for europe
[00:21:42.720] in hand we were going to miss bill's
[00:21:45.039] fedora hat and omnipresent pipe his
[00:21:48.000] optimistic outlook and jovial good sense
[00:21:51.039] one thing we wouldn't miss though was
[00:21:53.039] his tendency to burst into off-key irish
[00:21:55.600] songs at every opportunity
[00:21:58.080] so
[00:21:59.039] they've both they've both given uh some
[00:22:01.760] good-natured
[00:22:03.280] color descriptions there i want to give
[00:22:05.120] you a chance
[00:22:06.400] to do the same for them if you'd like
[00:22:08.799] ah well obviously they are both music
[00:22:11.840] haters
[00:22:13.280] have very little taste when it comes to
[00:22:15.440] good music
[00:22:16.960] uh
[00:22:18.480] with ed i never did go to the monroe
[00:22:21.120] institute
[00:22:22.400] they went
[00:22:23.679] in 83.
[00:22:25.360] that may have been my mistake here i i
[00:22:27.360] may have i may have had that no that was
[00:22:29.200] it yeah
[00:22:30.880] ed's book he
[00:22:32.400] somehow remembers me going to the monroe
[00:22:34.799] institute but i that that was
[00:22:37.679] i traveled down there while i was at
[00:22:39.520] fort meade and
[00:22:42.000] ran things down and
[00:22:44.080] but i never attended the monroe
[00:22:46.159] institute and when i went there i always
[00:22:48.000] flew down so
[00:22:51.200] yeah oh that's a character
[00:22:57.440] ed and i uh
[00:22:59.520] that was the the only one who
[00:23:02.080] i'd go out and have an irish whiskey
[00:23:03.840] with that
[00:23:04.960] that
[00:23:05.760] paul being mormon doesn't drink now that
[00:23:07.840] he'd be much better drinking companion i
[00:23:09.760] think than him
[00:23:10.960] but uh yep at the time uh yeah
[00:23:14.799] i was still drinking i uh
[00:23:17.280] i quit drinking 30 years ago
[00:23:21.120] hasn't affected my voice it's still
[00:23:22.960] beautiful
[00:23:25.440] but uh ed once again needing closure
[00:23:29.520] uh has got himself into
[00:23:32.480] some hot water with the
[00:23:34.720] recent
[00:23:37.039] predictions and those kind of things
[00:23:38.880] which which haven't panned out uh we
[00:23:41.360] haven't used ed as a viewer probably
[00:23:44.080] because of his uh propensity to be so
[00:23:48.840] left-brained least when i was there when
[00:23:51.039] i commanded you we did ed was was a
[00:23:53.919] monitor in an analyst
[00:23:56.080] now
[00:23:57.840] on on the unit
[00:24:01.440] the monitors and the analysts then they
[00:24:03.600] were
[00:24:04.559] basically uh ed james and uh gene
[00:24:07.279] lessman when i was there the way that
[00:24:09.120] would work for listeners who may not
[00:24:10.880] know is you'd have a remote viewer
[00:24:13.840] attempting to be assigned to target he
[00:24:15.919] wouldn't know what it was typically and
[00:24:18.720] he would be trying to receive
[00:24:20.880] impressions of what's at the target site
[00:24:23.440] and as he's engaged in that process he
[00:24:25.840] would have another person sitting with
[00:24:27.760] him known as a monitor whose job was to
[00:24:30.480] prompt him and take notes and and things
[00:24:32.960] like that
[00:24:34.320] precisely yes
[00:24:36.080] and uh
[00:24:37.840] if several viewers were working the same
[00:24:40.080] target then the the monitor also was the
[00:24:42.880] analyst he had been with the viewers
[00:24:45.120] maybe uh gene
[00:24:47.200] and and ed both were involved in the
[00:24:49.600] same project
[00:24:50.880] but in the end it was the
[00:24:53.440] monitor's job
[00:24:55.120] as an analyst to put together a report
[00:24:57.760] for the customer so we'd be going home
[00:25:01.200] at 16 30 1700 and they'd be still there
[00:25:04.480] burning the night oil putting reports
[00:25:06.960] together
[00:25:08.159] analyzing what we had said so
[00:25:12.880] the viewers got the glory but the uh
[00:25:15.440] the uh true heroes the uh the interior
[00:25:19.120] linemen of the unit were were the
[00:25:21.919] analyst monitors
[00:25:23.840] and ed uh dames functioned principally
[00:25:26.480] as a monitor in later years they used
[00:25:28.640] him a little bit as a viewer but he was
[00:25:30.480] mainly a monitor he's gotten as you
[00:25:32.880] alluded uh to a kind of reputation for
[00:25:35.440] making doomsday predictions all of which
[00:25:38.080] have happened since
[00:25:40.320] we haven't had that many doomsdays
[00:25:42.880] um unfortunately yeah tell me about paul
[00:25:46.080] smith he is a kind of interesting guy
[00:25:48.320] too now you mentioned he's mormon um
[00:25:51.200] one of the things i know he's famous for
[00:25:53.760] is his particular cool down method where
[00:25:56.720] he would be getting ready to remote view
[00:25:59.279] yes
[00:26:00.720] when
[00:26:02.159] paul cooled down it was the opposite of
[00:26:04.720] cooling down he would go over to the
[00:26:07.360] operational building
[00:26:09.120] put headphones on and play some very
[00:26:12.480] loud
[00:26:13.520] terrible rock music hard rock
[00:26:16.240] and that got him in the mood to go in
[00:26:20.000] and
[00:26:21.200] remote view
[00:26:24.400] once again i i've always questioned
[00:26:26.720] paul's taste in music
[00:26:29.279] it does seem a bit unusual a guy who's
[00:26:31.760] this somewhat mild-mannered mormon
[00:26:34.000] listening to heavy metal although he
[00:26:36.400] also says he would listen to country and
[00:26:38.320] some other things too but
[00:26:40.159] he has presented it as i was psyching
[00:26:42.640] myself up to do this
[00:26:44.559] yes i
[00:26:46.159] i can understand that
[00:26:50.480] there seems to be and no matter how many
[00:26:53.360] times you've remote viewed how you know
[00:26:56.320] if you have a string going of you know
[00:26:59.200] 20 hits in a row or a dozen hits in a
[00:27:01.600] row or three hits in a row
[00:27:03.760] there is that feeling that
[00:27:06.000] this is really impossible how can i do
[00:27:08.320] this
[00:27:10.240] and uh i think
[00:27:12.480] almost
[00:27:13.919] right to speak for all viewers viewers
[00:27:16.000] have a a
[00:27:17.679] a fear of failure
[00:27:19.600] when you go in it's it's it's uh i boxed
[00:27:22.399] in my youth and it was you know
[00:27:25.120] it was like
[00:27:26.640] what if i go in and get knocked out in
[00:27:28.399] 15 seconds
[00:27:29.919] that that
[00:27:31.200] and i i suspect it's it's what a an
[00:27:34.080] actor feels when he goes on stage what
[00:27:36.320] if i forget my lines but if i
[00:27:38.720] and it's a
[00:27:40.159] boxing once you get it the first time it
[00:27:41.919] goes away
[00:27:43.200] remote viewing once you get the feeling
[00:27:45.120] you're on target it goes away and i
[00:27:47.440] can't speak to actors
[00:27:50.080] now you had been trained in coordinate
[00:27:52.480] remote viewing or crv but there was
[00:27:54.640] another methodology that was also being
[00:27:56.960] used at the fort meade unit known as
[00:27:59.679] extended remote viewing or erv
[00:28:02.880] yes and the gentleman who prior to you
[00:28:05.440] had kind of specialized in this was
[00:28:07.520] named joseph mcmonagle but he ended up
[00:28:09.919] transferring out of the unit in
[00:28:11.919] september of 1984 and the group didn't
[00:28:15.279] have uh someone who was specializing in
[00:28:17.840] erv so you decided to um
[00:28:21.840] what is erv and how were you trained in
[00:28:24.559] it
[00:28:26.000] extended remote viewing is a
[00:28:29.360] there's a
[00:28:30.640] crb you don't go into an altered state
[00:28:33.760] you basically sit down with a pen in
[00:28:35.679] your hand
[00:28:36.960] and start recording and start writing
[00:28:39.200] you're jotting down the
[00:28:40.880] the
[00:28:41.919] the site as it comes to you in varying
[00:28:43.919] steps and stages
[00:28:45.760] extended remote viewing uh
[00:28:48.240] you
[00:28:49.039] achieve a
[00:28:51.360] altered state
[00:28:54.399] somebody could probably
[00:28:56.240] define that altered state better
[00:28:58.480] delta gamma whatever but you do achieve
[00:29:01.360] an altered state you uh
[00:29:03.840] you basically relax and yes then let the
[00:29:06.960] psychic impressions come to you yeah so
[00:29:09.200] you're like be laying on a bed and or a
[00:29:12.480] couch or something and relax deeply it's
[00:29:15.520] sometimes been described as a mind awake
[00:29:18.000] body of sleep state where you're kind of
[00:29:19.840] on the fringe of falling asleep but
[00:29:23.200] the goal is not to
[00:29:25.120] i i equate it to skin guiding
[00:29:28.000] scuba diving you're you're you have a
[00:29:30.640] threshold below and a threshold above if
[00:29:33.200] you come
[00:29:34.159] up too close back to consciousness you
[00:29:36.399] lose the sight
[00:29:37.919] and then you
[00:29:39.039] you may be able to regain it you may not
[00:29:41.279] if you go
[00:29:42.480] too deep
[00:29:44.240] i don't know where you go some people
[00:29:45.840] say you you you're falling asleep it's
[00:29:48.559] all it is
[00:29:49.679] i i think you go someplace when you come
[00:29:51.679] back you don't recall
[00:29:53.760] but that's
[00:29:54.880] it's the thing with extended remote
[00:29:57.440] viewing you have to have a monitor
[00:30:00.159] it's
[00:30:01.120] very good to to uh
[00:30:03.760] to take
[00:30:05.600] the session when i when i got to the
[00:30:07.840] project there's about 12 people but two
[00:30:10.240] of them were secretaries they had two
[00:30:11.919] secretaries because
[00:30:14.559] you had to transcribe joe's session
[00:30:18.000] and when you're in
[00:30:19.440] in the the altered state
[00:30:21.679] it's kind of like talking with a mouth
[00:30:24.000] full of uh mush and marbles
[00:30:27.919] and so it's uh
[00:30:29.279] and
[00:30:30.320] you would have to go through the tapes
[00:30:31.840] over and over again to
[00:30:33.679] get what he did because
[00:30:37.120] if you're trying to recall things you
[00:30:39.039] may not pick up all the details
[00:30:41.760] and so that's part of why it's
[00:30:43.600] especially important with the rv to have
[00:30:45.520] a monitor because yes it it keeps the
[00:30:48.880] viewer from falling asleep or going off
[00:30:51.840] track to have someone there interviewing
[00:30:53.840] him and posing the questions to him
[00:30:55.600] which then get recorded or otherwise
[00:30:58.159] taken down since he's not writing them
[00:31:00.000] himself
[00:31:01.600] the
[00:31:02.840] viewer really is
[00:31:05.600] pretty much brainless there's only one
[00:31:07.519] brain in the room it should be the
[00:31:09.279] monitor
[00:31:10.559] and you know you might say okay i'm here
[00:31:12.559] now there's uh there's three buildings
[00:31:16.840] and the monitor may say which building's
[00:31:19.760] important well i don't really know
[00:31:22.159] so the monitor will then decide okay go
[00:31:24.640] into building number
[00:31:26.159] first building on your right
[00:31:28.080] and the viewer does that and it's but
[00:31:30.159] it's
[00:31:31.760] you really aren't making good decisions
[00:31:34.240] you may have a feeling this is important
[00:31:36.880] but you need you need somebody with a
[00:31:39.039] brain outside to guide you
[00:31:41.679] now much of the time with controlled
[00:31:43.600] remote viewing or coordinate remote
[00:31:45.200] viewing viewers will describe the
[00:31:47.760] impressions they're getting as being
[00:31:50.000] rather faint kind of like a half
[00:31:52.240] forgotten memory of oh yeah i think
[00:31:54.320] that's what this site is like it sounds
[00:31:56.320] like erv is a much more immersive
[00:31:58.720] experience where you have a much greater
[00:32:01.600] perception of the site like being there
[00:32:03.600] is that accurate i i for me that is
[00:32:06.640] correct
[00:32:07.840] to me and this is just bill as remote
[00:32:10.799] viewing
[00:32:13.279] crv seems to me you're pulling
[00:32:15.679] information from the site you're pulling
[00:32:18.159] the information in erb is you're going
[00:32:20.960] to the site and getting the information
[00:32:24.640] i find erp more exciting and
[00:32:27.440] i'm kind of a adrenaline junkie so
[00:32:30.559] i'd like it better
[00:32:32.000] as a paratrooper that's a good thing
[00:32:34.559] yes
[00:32:36.000] the so it's kind of like an out-of-body
[00:32:38.240] experience or similar to that
[00:32:40.640] it's similar to that but
[00:32:44.480] but you're still you're still feeling
[00:32:46.320] like you're in your body and able to
[00:32:48.000] talk yes now joel mcmonicle
[00:32:51.440] also has done a lot of obese out of body
[00:32:53.919] experiences
[00:32:55.440] but the thing is that you don't report
[00:32:58.080] back on obese you can't be directed to
[00:33:00.799] go to
[00:33:01.840] a certain building or a certain area or
[00:33:04.559] tell me more about that and when you
[00:33:06.799] come back you may not recall everything
[00:33:08.640] that happened
[00:33:10.880] now you had been trained in crv by ingo
[00:33:14.240] and howe
[00:33:15.360] how were you trained in erv
[00:33:17.760] well interesting
[00:33:19.200] i wasn't
[00:33:20.480] i uh after joe had left i
[00:33:24.399] i
[00:33:25.760] approached skip
[00:33:27.600] on a friday and said
[00:33:30.399] we really could use another erv or it
[00:33:32.399] would give us more options if we don't
[00:33:34.240] more resources and i'd i'd like to learn
[00:33:36.960] erv
[00:33:38.559] skip said okay bilbo
[00:33:41.039] let's
[00:33:42.159] start monday and i said grand so i came
[00:33:45.200] in monday
[00:33:46.399] pen and paper in hand expecting to be
[00:33:48.559] trained and
[00:33:49.840] we went over from the admin area across
[00:33:52.720] the little walk over to the operational
[00:33:55.200] building and i went in and did the rv
[00:33:58.640] and
[00:33:59.760] there there was no training now i had
[00:34:02.799] watched joe remote view and joe was
[00:34:05.760] hooked up to skin
[00:34:07.760] uh galvanizers and other things
[00:34:11.200] and uh so
[00:34:12.960] when joe was on
[00:34:15.359] i knew what his body was doing now the
[00:34:18.879] polarity was reversed in other things
[00:34:21.359] and i was there one time and i was
[00:34:23.200] talking to skip in the control room and
[00:34:25.119] joe was babbling on in in a
[00:34:28.639] viewing room and i said shouldn't we be
[00:34:30.720] listening he said no look here say
[00:34:33.359] he's been off target for 10 minutes she
[00:34:35.040] just doesn't know it yet
[00:34:36.800] so
[00:34:38.720] i had learned how to
[00:34:42.639] make my body like joe's body when he was
[00:34:44.879] viewing so when i went in
[00:34:46.960] and i wasn't going to get any
[00:34:48.560] instruction
[00:34:49.760] i i did that
[00:34:51.760] and
[00:34:53.839] after a while
[00:34:55.200] i found the signal line and the signal
[00:34:57.359] line in erp is the same signal line in
[00:35:00.320] crv
[00:35:01.440] it feels the same and that's kind of
[00:35:04.160] hard to explain it it feels stronger in
[00:35:06.640] erb i think because you're in an ultra
[00:35:08.720] state
[00:35:10.079] and i picked it up
[00:35:11.599] we should explain for listeners this the
[00:35:13.359] signal line is a way of conceptualizing
[00:35:16.800] the flow of information
[00:35:18.800] coming to a viewer from the site and so
[00:35:22.240] if you are having an accurate flow of
[00:35:25.040] information you're said to have found
[00:35:27.040] the signal line or to be on signal
[00:35:30.400] yes
[00:35:31.280] and uh in crb
[00:35:34.160] the longer you do a session the deepest
[00:35:38.400] step one uh
[00:35:40.079] stage one is is very vague and it's
[00:35:43.920] stage one is the hardest one once you do
[00:35:46.480] that everything else is going to come
[00:35:48.000] but you have to get that one down and as
[00:35:50.400] you get in two three four
[00:35:53.839] it feels much stronger you
[00:35:57.520] you know you're there you know you're on
[00:35:59.680] target
[00:36:01.280] you're on the yeah we call it riding the
[00:36:02.960] signal line
[00:36:05.280] a metaphor but
[00:36:07.200] it fairly accurately describes the
[00:36:09.680] feeling you have when you're on target
[00:36:12.640] now
[00:36:13.760] we mentioned the cooldown process where
[00:36:16.160] viewers getting ready to uh to begin
[00:36:19.119] viewing and we mentioned paul smith's
[00:36:21.839] preferred technique at least at the time
[00:36:24.400] was to listen to music that he found
[00:36:26.320] invigorating i know another of your
[00:36:29.440] colleagues
[00:36:30.800] tom mcnair
[00:36:32.800] who's a protestant christian has a
[00:36:35.119] prayer that he would say is his cooldown
[00:36:37.839] you had these two methodologies of crv
[00:36:40.400] and erv what did you use as cool down
[00:36:44.079] in in crv
[00:36:47.440] i would do a
[00:36:51.280] fairly
[00:36:52.400] fast hail mary yeah concentrating on the
[00:36:56.079] that was a merchant of course
[00:36:59.599] wouldn't want to get into the altered
[00:37:01.599] state
[00:37:02.640] on
[00:37:04.000] erb i
[00:37:07.520] i didn't
[00:37:08.800] call it at the time but thinking back to
[00:37:11.200] it now i
[00:37:12.960] i meditated
[00:37:14.960] on the hill mary's three of them
[00:37:17.839] very
[00:37:20.000] deeply
[00:37:21.440] and that seemed to get me into the
[00:37:23.839] altered state
[00:37:25.520] so you would put it that wouldn't work
[00:37:27.040] for crb because i'd be too far down
[00:37:30.160] so you were putting your viewing sort of
[00:37:32.400] under mary's mantle
[00:37:35.040] yes yeah
[00:37:36.720] okay
[00:37:38.400] now
[00:37:40.079] one of the things that often happens in
[00:37:42.000] erv is be and
[00:37:44.880] is before a viewer will go to the target
[00:37:48.079] as they're cooling down they will go to
[00:37:51.280] a place in their mind that's sometimes
[00:37:53.359] called their sanctuary location and then
[00:37:56.160] once they're in their sanctuary location
[00:37:58.320] they'll be given the target and they'll
[00:38:00.000] proceed there yes what was your
[00:38:02.560] sanctuary location
[00:38:04.640] okay sanctuary was a uh a concept that
[00:38:07.839] gene lessman also an irishman born in
[00:38:10.400] belfast came up with
[00:38:12.240] uh my sanctuary i didn't know
[00:38:14.480] for uh the idea was to keep it a secret
[00:38:17.280] or i'm not quite sure why i think it was
[00:38:19.680] more psychological i i eventually
[00:38:22.320] figured out where it was
[00:38:24.079] i picked this place out of
[00:38:26.720] it was a hillside a little grotto a lake
[00:38:29.280] behind it
[00:38:31.280] a lot of rain and i eventually was able
[00:38:33.839] to just go back up slowly and i i
[00:38:37.040] believe my my sanctuary was in county
[00:38:39.920] ross common in ireland
[00:38:43.839] so you had a
[00:38:45.280] location that wasn't just an imaginary
[00:38:47.520] field or something but something that
[00:38:50.640] was an actual site on earth that you
[00:38:52.880] were then able to identify i went there
[00:38:54.800] and felt comfortable i still go there
[00:38:56.720] when i go to the dentist
[00:38:59.680] i i imagine a lot of people would like
[00:39:01.520] to have a sanctuary location they could
[00:39:03.280] give you when they're at the dentist
[00:39:04.640] anybody can do it yeah
[00:39:06.960] just let just send your psychic out to
[00:39:09.599] find a spot you feel very comfortable in
[00:39:12.160] and then recall it when they start to
[00:39:14.560] drill yeah
[00:39:16.800] one thing that
[00:39:18.240] ervers are reported to be able to do
[00:39:20.960] frequently is interact with people who
[00:39:24.000] are at the target site so they they'll
[00:39:26.640] be viewing the site they'll see somebody
[00:39:29.040] there and they'll be able to like go up
[00:39:31.839] to that person and ask them a question
[00:39:34.079] and get an answer and presumably since
[00:39:36.480] they're not physically there this would
[00:39:38.079] be like some kind of
[00:39:39.839] telepathy with the other person's
[00:39:41.680] subconscious perhaps or a way of giving
[00:39:44.800] yourself permission to receive certain
[00:39:46.960] information or or something like that
[00:39:50.320] have you had experiences like that
[00:39:53.440] uh quite frequently it was uh
[00:39:56.480] one of the advantages of erb
[00:39:58.880] i think it's possible in crb we just
[00:40:01.200] haven't figured it out yet
[00:40:03.040] you do it to some extent in stage four
[00:40:05.280] but it's
[00:40:07.040] more or less grasping the emotional
[00:40:10.079] state of all the people at the site but
[00:40:12.800] at the site uh
[00:40:14.480] i was they had me working uh
[00:40:17.520] eventually you're not supposed to know
[00:40:19.200] where you're going because of
[00:40:20.400] imagination and all that so it's usually
[00:40:23.440] at least signal uh
[00:40:25.520] single blind the viewer and quite
[00:40:27.119] frequently the monitor has no idea where
[00:40:28.960] you're going either
[00:40:30.480] i eventually figured they were sending
[00:40:31.920] me to the kremlin once so
[00:40:33.760] once a month or twice a month to just to
[00:40:36.480] monitor see what was going on
[00:40:38.480] it was uh
[00:40:40.000] easy to recognize the kremlin right so
[00:40:42.800] you just this is the kremlin i didn't
[00:40:45.280] let them know i knew
[00:40:48.160] and i admit there was a a three-star
[00:40:51.040] general there named yuri who was a
[00:40:52.880] grandfather i quite liked and i've been
[00:40:55.040] kind of
[00:40:55.920] sitting with him in the meetings but uh
[00:40:58.480] i went there one time i think gene was
[00:41:00.880] gene lessman was the monitor and
[00:41:03.599] i got there and i got to the building no
[00:41:05.599] problem i couldn't find the room and i
[00:41:07.760] had never had that problem before and i
[00:41:10.400] probably was overthinking it but now i'm
[00:41:12.880] psychically going through the halls of
[00:41:14.560] the kremlin trying to find this room
[00:41:17.359] and i can't and gene finally says bill
[00:41:20.560] says ask somebody
[00:41:23.359] okay so
[00:41:24.960] i went down there was a kiosk there and
[00:41:26.960] they've been serving tea and pastries so
[00:41:29.599] i went up and there was one guy sitting
[00:41:32.079] there and i said look at that i need to
[00:41:34.319] get to this room
[00:41:35.839] he said
[00:41:36.880] he told me where it is and he says not a
[00:41:38.880] lot you can't go there i said no it's
[00:41:40.880] okay and so i'm i'm arguing with him
[00:41:43.680] that he can tell me where it is and he's
[00:41:45.520] telling me it's not allowed you can't go
[00:41:47.520] there don't
[00:41:48.880] so
[00:41:49.680] i i leave him and there's another guy
[00:41:51.920] standing there and i say i need to find
[00:41:54.319] this room he said well i'll take you
[00:41:56.880] right over here himself
[00:41:59.040] two different people
[00:42:00.720] two different psychics yeah one was
[00:42:04.000] no way was he going to violate security
[00:42:06.800] and the other
[00:42:08.319] yeah i'll help you out
[00:42:10.480] but uh and
[00:42:12.000] a lot of times uh
[00:42:14.800] i'll give you uh an example of of joe
[00:42:17.520] mcmonaco
[00:42:18.720] one of the sites he did when when
[00:42:20.720] general doser was captured
[00:42:23.119] they were trying to figure out where
[00:42:24.800] general doser was being held
[00:42:26.800] uh general dozier was on american
[00:42:29.440] general who was in italy and was
[00:42:31.599] kidnapped for a while right by
[00:42:33.599] terrorists and he eventually was
[00:42:35.599] recovered
[00:42:36.960] right he was
[00:42:38.880] actually not through remote viewing but
[00:42:40.960] uh we could have but so he was uh he was
[00:42:43.520] a brigadier general he was in varuna
[00:42:46.640] and uh had been kidnapped by the uh
[00:42:50.079] rhoda magog
[00:42:53.760] uh italian terrorist group
[00:42:56.160] and this was before my time but i i read
[00:42:59.040] the reports
[00:43:00.480] and actually uh
[00:43:02.560] dia
[00:43:04.319] got some civilian remote viewers flew
[00:43:06.240] into italy was trying to help him find
[00:43:08.240] him was running all around
[00:43:10.880] at the time the civilian remote viewers
[00:43:13.359] were very overrated i think but joe was
[00:43:15.839] back at uh for me and he came up with
[00:43:21.200] find the place so joe went and actually
[00:43:24.319] found where dozer was
[00:43:26.560] but the problem is where is he
[00:43:29.119] well he's here but where are you
[00:43:31.760] so
[00:43:32.560] joe had to figure out a way to find out
[00:43:34.720] where he was
[00:43:36.160] so
[00:43:37.440] he finally came up with padua padilla
[00:43:40.400] the which is where actually the correct
[00:43:42.640] answer but i asked you one time how did
[00:43:45.200] you come up how'd you find that out he
[00:43:47.440] said well i went back 300 years
[00:43:50.720] found a church bishop and asked him who
[00:43:53.280] he was and he would said i'm the
[00:43:55.280] archbishop of padua a papadia
[00:43:58.960] so not only go back 300 years then he
[00:44:01.599] made contact with somebody who told them
[00:44:03.520] who he was
[00:44:04.800] which creates a lot of interesting uh
[00:44:08.079] ideas about the time and how it works
[00:44:12.480] in late 1984 the fort meade program
[00:44:16.160] which at the time was called center lane
[00:44:19.520] was
[00:44:20.839] closed captioning not
[00:44:35.520] with available army army under secretary
[00:44:37.920] james ambrose and lieutenant general
[00:44:40.319] will william odom who was a prominent
[00:44:42.880] critic
[00:44:43.920] of the
[00:44:44.720] program he was not a fan
[00:44:46.560] can you tell us about that meeting
[00:44:49.040] yes i think this was probably 85
[00:44:52.720] uh
[00:44:53.520] colonel brian busby had been they had
[00:44:55.520] been the commander but had
[00:44:58.960] you know fall of his own had some
[00:45:00.640] difficulties with dia basically because
[00:45:03.520] of
[00:45:05.520] political issues between dia and the
[00:45:08.640] army intelligence so
[00:45:12.240] brian was not going to go with the
[00:45:13.920] project when he left the army so i was
[00:45:16.000] taking over uh
[00:45:19.040] i was almost a major i think i was about
[00:45:21.599] a scam and promotable probably a few
[00:45:23.839] weeks from being a major
[00:45:25.839] but
[00:45:28.240] went down to the pentagon
[00:45:30.640] and what we had is a red book which has
[00:45:34.240] since disappeared nobody can find it but
[00:45:36.720] the red book at that time listed every
[00:45:39.200] session
[00:45:40.240] every project that we've been tasked
[00:45:42.000] with
[00:45:43.119] and the results of that project and then
[00:45:45.680] we had some
[00:45:46.960] some
[00:45:48.560] old
[00:45:49.680] uh examples of things we had done and
[00:45:52.960] we would brief that
[00:45:54.640] and uh be like a briefing chart
[00:45:58.240] anybody that we briefed it to we
[00:46:00.079] convinced with the exception of general
[00:46:02.079] odom uh the older one listened to it
[00:46:05.839] so i went down
[00:46:08.319] with this general odom i was carrying
[00:46:10.480] this
[00:46:11.839] red
[00:46:12.839] book with me
[00:46:14.880] that was good brief
[00:46:17.040] and i went in said to be there at nine
[00:46:19.599] o'clock in the morning so i got to the
[00:46:21.040] pentagon went in
[00:46:23.280] suit and tie and there's
[00:46:25.760] the secretary and she sent me a general
[00:46:27.839] odom he says
[00:46:29.359] appointments for three o'clock 1500
[00:46:31.520] hours be back here at
[00:46:34.000] five minutes before
[00:46:35.760] yes sir
[00:46:36.880] so away i go
[00:46:38.960] and i'm at the pentagon all day walking
[00:46:40.960] around carrying this secret briefing
[00:46:42.880] with me
[00:46:44.319] and uh i show up about 14 30. that's no
[00:46:47.280] way i'm going to go five minutes before
[00:46:48.800] the meeting set so i'm sitting there and
[00:46:51.599] it's now 15 10 and we haven't left yet
[00:46:54.960] for ambrose's office whoever go go down
[00:46:56.960] brief
[00:46:58.400] and uh finally odom comes out and has
[00:47:00.800] the secretary call ambrose secretary
[00:47:03.920] because zambos was still in the meeting
[00:47:05.599] so in the pentagon it's who waits on who
[00:47:08.240] who has the power so when ambrose is
[00:47:11.280] free then
[00:47:12.800] so eventually about 15 30
[00:47:16.400] his secretary called so
[00:47:18.319] general odom and i walked down the
[00:47:19.839] hallway
[00:47:21.119] and i'm thinking
[00:47:22.800] general odom is the number one in
[00:47:25.200] intelligence general in the army
[00:47:27.760] and normally you support your commander
[00:47:30.880] but i wasn't in his command and i
[00:47:33.680] already had 20 years then i could retire
[00:47:36.480] so uh i figured well no do i support him
[00:47:40.160] or am i honest i decided to be honest so
[00:47:43.200] we go in
[00:47:44.640] and we're
[00:47:46.960] ambrose is still in this meeting so we
[00:47:48.640] sit down and wait for 10 minutes general
[00:47:50.640] odin's going crazy so we go in and we we
[00:47:53.839] start the briefing and i'm showing
[00:47:57.040] him things
[00:47:58.640] and
[00:48:01.040] one of the things is
[00:48:03.359] the project had the highest success rate
[00:48:06.319] of any collection platform the the
[00:48:09.280] military had or the civilians had at the
[00:48:11.599] time intelligence collection yes
[00:48:14.000] intelligence collection we were at 50
[00:48:17.119] of
[00:48:18.079] things we were projects we worked on
[00:48:20.800] were rated by the customer as of
[00:48:23.200] exceptionally high value
[00:48:25.200] and you know that's that's
[00:48:27.440] if you get 10 percent being of some
[00:48:29.200] value you're doing okay if your
[00:48:30.720] collection
[00:48:31.760] but anyhow so we went in and i uh sat
[00:48:34.960] down and we got there and
[00:48:37.359] i briefed
[00:48:38.880] odin uh odin was there and he
[00:48:41.280] did his feel about that
[00:48:43.680] not the army's not the play sport and
[00:48:45.440] all that so i
[00:48:47.200] showed him the first one i showed him
[00:48:48.559] was uh one of the things joe mcmonagle
[00:48:50.880] had worked on was the typhoon submarine
[00:48:54.640] which
[00:48:55.440] was
[00:48:56.319] a fantastic
[00:48:58.960] success for joe this one and uh typhoon
[00:49:02.000] submarine was a russian submarine that
[00:49:04.960] was really quiet that was being
[00:49:07.599] developed in crc by the russians and one
[00:49:10.400] of joe mcmonagle's tasks was to describe
[00:49:13.440] it and he was able to do that despite
[00:49:15.440] the fact it was in a sealed building in
[00:49:17.119] russia
[00:49:18.640] yep
[00:49:19.359] we were tasked in the uh the ca came
[00:49:21.920] back and said that we missed the target
[00:49:24.079] because joe said it was this huge
[00:49:25.839] submarine and they weren't sure it was a
[00:49:27.599] submarine had this huge tail which no
[00:49:30.240] suffering ever had and it had a bunch of
[00:49:32.640] missile tubes and they were cantered at
[00:49:34.640] an angle and
[00:49:36.160] uh missile tubes
[00:49:38.559] on the submarine are all straight up and
[00:49:40.079] down to fire yeah
[00:49:42.640] tom lock missiles or whatever so they
[00:49:44.480] said we missed it
[00:49:46.000] and plus it wasn't right on the water
[00:49:47.760] then six months later they started
[00:49:49.760] dealing a trench and they the typhoon
[00:49:51.760] came out and we were right on
[00:49:53.680] so i
[00:49:54.640] i i reached that and the gentleman said
[00:49:56.800] well
[00:49:58.319] let me explain said we could verify that
[00:50:00.960] six months later so we didn't really
[00:50:03.200] need him i said that you know
[00:50:05.040] intelligence is to get as many sources
[00:50:07.200] as you can so i gave them something else
[00:50:09.280] that we were the sole source we're the
[00:50:10.960] only one reported that orton says well
[00:50:13.359] we don't know if that's correct because
[00:50:14.880] they're the sole source so i
[00:50:17.839] sarcastically said well
[00:50:20.319] we're
[00:50:21.760] you know
[00:50:22.640] if we're one of many reporting then
[00:50:24.640] that's not good enough for the only one
[00:50:26.160] reporting that's not good so
[00:50:28.480] they said yeah i said okay so i had a
[00:50:31.040] bunch of letters
[00:50:32.559] from people
[00:50:33.920] who were supporting the project one uh
[00:50:36.880] at the time bill gates was the acting
[00:50:39.280] director of cia william o'casey had died
[00:50:42.160] who
[00:50:43.040] we briefed earlier but i had the uh
[00:50:46.319] from general officers uh
[00:50:48.960] general officer level civilians i
[00:50:51.280] gave all these letters to ambrose which
[00:50:53.200] uh odin didn't know i had
[00:50:55.920] these were supportive letters testifying
[00:50:57.920] to the value of what the program was
[00:50:59.520] doing yes that this is this is worth
[00:51:01.839] keeping that
[00:51:03.040] sort of says well sir i can explain that
[00:51:05.680] and i was wondering how i was going to
[00:51:07.359] do that and it was that
[00:51:10.160] the people want to
[00:51:11.839] maintain access to this technology
[00:51:15.200] so they're willing to say anything to do
[00:51:17.200] that
[00:51:18.480] so i'm
[00:51:20.640] if they're willing to do anything to
[00:51:23.040] maintain access to
[00:51:25.200] technology it must be worth something if
[00:51:27.520] you're saying they're willing to lie to
[00:51:28.800] keep it
[00:51:31.040] that didn't go over well and i left and
[00:51:33.280] we
[00:51:34.559] got kicked out of the army and had to
[00:51:36.960] pick another agency which dia was not a
[00:51:40.000] certainty the the cia had wanted us
[00:51:43.680] uh nsa had wanted us
[00:51:47.200] and the medical r d community i wanted
[00:51:50.720] us
[00:51:51.760] and i eventually settled on dia which is
[00:51:54.800] good because have we gone over to nsa
[00:51:56.960] odom came over six months later and
[00:51:58.880] became the community the director nsa
[00:52:03.440] uh i was worried the medical research
[00:52:06.319] command may be shoving tubes down our
[00:52:08.400] throat and anyplace else they could put
[00:52:10.480] tubes to see why we work
[00:52:12.800] uh
[00:52:13.680] cia would have been probably preferable
[00:52:16.240] at the time but they had just mined the
[00:52:19.040] harbors in nicaragua and they couldn't
[00:52:21.440] take any more
[00:52:24.880] controversy they thought so we ended up
[00:52:27.119] over at dia jack verwin or through d.a
[00:52:29.599] was always a big supporter of ours so
[00:52:31.680] that worked out well
[00:52:33.680] now as we mentioned originally crv stood
[00:52:36.559] for coordinate remote viewing and what
[00:52:39.119] would happen is
[00:52:40.960] the tasker would give a viewer a set of
[00:52:43.520] geographical coordinates you know such
[00:52:45.520] and such latitude and longitude and then
[00:52:48.079] the viewer would go there but that's not
[00:52:50.000] typically done anymore and these days
[00:52:52.160] crv stands for controlled remote viewing
[00:52:55.280] because it's done in a series of stages
[00:52:58.400] where you get different types of
[00:53:00.079] information about the site
[00:53:02.160] the shift or an important moment in the
[00:53:04.800] shift between coordinate and controlled
[00:53:07.359] remote viewing
[00:53:08.880] occurred in april of 1985 and you played
[00:53:12.880] a role
[00:53:13.920] in changing that tell me what happened
[00:53:16.240] why did it stop being coordinate remote
[00:53:18.240] viewing well what we did we went from
[00:53:20.960] coordinates and then we
[00:53:23.520] pretty well the problem with coordinates
[00:53:25.359] if you tell me this is six degrees north
[00:53:28.240] my mind's gonna say this it's going to
[00:53:29.839] be cold here
[00:53:31.520] or if it
[00:53:32.800] if it's on the equator it's going to be
[00:53:34.319] warm so
[00:53:36.319] you're starting to to put the left brain
[00:53:38.559] into action so
[00:53:40.160] what we did was we had a uh a random
[00:53:42.800] number generator and so we would take
[00:53:44.720] the coordinates
[00:53:46.079] put it into the random number generator
[00:53:48.319] which would check out a random number
[00:53:50.880] so it was we would use that number this
[00:53:53.040] was
[00:53:54.839] coordinates encrypted coordinate yeah
[00:53:54.960] the right time encrypted
[00:53:57.520] yeah
[00:53:59.440] one day we were
[00:54:01.520] going and
[00:54:02.640] working and there were several things
[00:54:04.160] going on i was going back and forth i
[00:54:06.400] just got back from being down cia
[00:54:08.839] headquarters got back and came in and uh
[00:54:12.640] i think it was ed came running in and
[00:54:14.240] was going to do a target said bill i
[00:54:15.599] need the coordinates for this target
[00:54:18.000] and so i sat down and wrote down a
[00:54:19.839] series of numbers and gave them to him
[00:54:21.440] just
[00:54:23.599] and it worked
[00:54:25.680] so um so it went from actual
[00:54:29.440] geographic coordinates to the encrypted
[00:54:31.839] form
[00:54:33.280] weren't recognizable right and then one
[00:54:36.160] day you were just too busy and just
[00:54:37.680] wrote down random stuff and said you
[00:54:39.520] tried it and it worked
[00:54:41.520] yeah just leave me alone go do this
[00:54:44.799] and it
[00:54:45.839] i think it's it's the intent of the
[00:54:47.839] viewer
[00:54:48.880] to fulfill the taskers
[00:54:51.760] the
[00:54:52.799] game
[00:54:53.599] and uh that that that's what we all use
[00:54:56.079] now it's pretty much you can come up
[00:54:58.240] with something
[00:54:59.440] specific to the target specific to the
[00:55:01.520] date
[00:55:01.840] [Music]
[00:55:03.760] and we we haven't had a problem
[00:55:07.280] so it continues to work just based on
[00:55:09.280] the intention of the tasker even though
[00:55:11.680] the coordinates are just random
[00:55:13.839] random letters of numbers at this point
[00:55:15.520] yeah
[00:55:16.400] yeah which we assigned to a vanilla
[00:55:19.760] folder and we put the target inside the
[00:55:21.760] manila folder so we've established a
[00:55:24.319] link of some sort
[00:55:27.359] but it's uh
[00:55:29.839] now another thing
[00:55:33.040] another thing that happened in april of
[00:55:35.680] 1985 specifically on april 7th was you
[00:55:39.200] had a very powerful viewing session
[00:55:44.559] what can you tell me about that and what
[00:55:47.440] happened
[00:55:49.200] and that will serve as our cliffhanger
[00:55:51.359] for this episode jimmy what will major
[00:55:53.839] ray be telling us about when we pick up
[00:55:55.680] next time
[00:55:56.880] he'll be telling us about one of the
[00:55:58.319] most dramatic remote viewing experiences
[00:56:00.640] he ever had the target was a mass ufo
[00:56:04.240] abduction in the gulf of san mateos
[00:56:06.799] argentina
[00:56:08.160] and as we'll hear the fear that major
[00:56:10.960] ray experienced in the viewing was so
[00:56:13.760] great that he still feels visceral fear
[00:56:16.640] when he thinks about the event today
[00:56:19.440] but he's going to read us his original
[00:56:22.640] remote viewing results of the experience
[00:56:25.839] we'll also be hearing about his
[00:56:27.520] experiences remote viewing roswell and
[00:56:30.480] the ark of the covenant and we'll be
[00:56:32.799] discussing his catholic faith and how he
[00:56:34.880] understands it in relationship to remote
[00:56:37.119] viewing
[00:56:38.400] excellent so jimmy what further
[00:56:40.240] resources can we offer to the listener
[00:56:42.000] and viewer
[00:56:43.200] we'll have uh paul smith's book reading
[00:56:45.680] the enemy's mind which is a history of
[00:56:47.520] the stargate program also ed dames's
[00:56:50.000] book tell me what you see
[00:56:52.000] uh we'll have a an article that appeared
[00:56:54.720] about bill ray's retirement with video
[00:56:57.200] where he came back to
[00:56:58.960] where he lives from afghanistan
[00:57:01.280] also
[00:57:02.400] information on controlled remote viewing
[00:57:04.880] by paul smith and also extended remote
[00:57:08.000] viewing by paul smith as well as an
[00:57:10.640] image of the kremlin so you can see how
[00:57:12.400] visually distinctive it is and
[00:57:14.480] information about general james dozier
[00:57:17.119] who was kidnapped lieutenant general
[00:57:19.440] william odom who opposed the stargate
[00:57:21.520] program and the typhoon class submarine
[00:57:25.280] excellent all right well jimmy what do
[00:57:27.440] we have for mysterious headlines this
[00:57:29.200] week
[00:57:30.240] well since we're talking about remote
[00:57:31.920] viewing which is sometimes classified as
[00:57:34.880] an additional sense that humans might
[00:57:37.839] have we have a theme for mysterious
[00:57:40.160] headlines of the world as viewed through
[00:57:43.040] other senses
[00:57:44.640] and just recently the nobel prize for
[00:57:47.119] medicine
[00:57:48.240] was awarded for to uh some scientists
[00:57:51.440] for discovering the mechanism that is
[00:57:53.440] used in two
[00:57:56.000] rather obvious senses but at least one
[00:57:58.799] of them is not often recognized
[00:58:01.119] the two senses are temperature
[00:58:04.640] and touch
[00:58:06.000] and we've known for some time that these
[00:58:08.160] senses are mediated by nerves in our
[00:58:10.160] skin but they actually found the
[00:58:12.880] relevant kinds of nerves and yes they
[00:58:15.119] are different so temperature is really a
[00:58:17.920] different sense
[00:58:19.680] than touch than pressure and so um
[00:58:24.319] and we have different kinds of nerves
[00:58:25.599] that do that uh that perform those
[00:58:27.599] functions so that's something
[00:58:29.359] interesting to check out but also very
[00:58:31.760] interesting we'll have links to two
[00:58:33.599] videos
[00:58:35.119] one about the world as we would see it
[00:58:38.160] if we could see into the infrared
[00:58:40.799] part of the spectrum
[00:58:42.559] and also the war a second video on the
[00:58:45.440] world as we would see it if we could
[00:58:48.000] perceive it in the ultraviolet part of
[00:58:50.559] the spectrum so those are the two
[00:58:52.880] um
[00:58:55.280] areas that are closest on the on the
[00:58:57.839] electromagnetic spectrum to visible
[00:58:59.680] light
[00:59:01.040] red has the lowest frequency of visible
[00:59:04.160] light so um infrared is is
[00:59:07.920] uh
[00:59:08.640] less
[00:59:09.599] in frequency than visible red and then
[00:59:12.240] at the other end of the spectrum violet
[00:59:14.400] has the highest frequency
[00:59:16.559] of of visible light and so ultraviolet
[00:59:20.079] is just beyond the violet in terms of
[00:59:22.480] its an even higher frequency
[00:59:24.640] and um it turns out even though humans
[00:59:28.559] don't uh really see infrared and
[00:59:31.040] ultraviolet other creatures do
[00:59:33.119] and that has an impact on how the world
[00:59:36.240] looks and these are really fascinating
[00:59:38.720] videos i uh i watch both of them myself
[00:59:41.760] it's really interesting stuff including
[00:59:44.480] one of the subjects that gets discussed
[00:59:46.240] is um what plants would look like on
[00:59:50.400] might look like on alien planets
[00:59:52.400] depending on the type of sun they have
[00:59:54.799] because obviously the plants here on
[00:59:56.640] earth have evolved to receive energy
[00:59:59.280] from our sun
[01:00:01.200] and there's a reason that most plants
[01:00:03.359] are green
[01:00:04.640] as opposed to some other color but it
[01:00:06.880] would be different on other planets so
[01:00:09.440] check out these two videos they're
[01:00:11.119] really fascinating on the world in
[01:00:12.880] infrared and the world in ultraviolet
[01:00:15.040] they're both on youtube and by the way
[01:00:17.119] while you're on youtube be sure and stop
[01:00:18.720] by my channel and
[01:00:20.720] remember to uh like comment and
[01:00:23.359] especially subscribe i'm trying to grow
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[01:00:42.559] we're doing an experiment with that so
[01:00:44.079] if you'd like to see us there also if
[01:00:46.160] that's one of the if those are the
[01:00:47.839] platforms you prefer be sure and stop by
[01:00:51.119] and also subscribe there
[01:00:54.400] pretty good excellent
[01:00:56.400] so that's it from us what are your
[01:00:58.720] theories about remote viewing and what
[01:01:00.799] major ray has told us about his career
[01:01:02.880] you can let us know by visiting sqpn.com
[01:01:06.160] or the jimmy akins mysterious world
[01:01:08.400] facebook page sending us an email to
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[01:01:14.799] at mys underscore world or calling our
[01:01:18.160] mysterious feedback line at
[01:01:23.040] five that's six 618-738-4515 eight seven
[01:01:24.960] three eight four five one five
[01:01:27.920] jimmy what are we going to be talking
[01:01:29.119] about next time
[01:01:30.799] next week major ray will be telling us
[01:01:32.480] about some of his most dramatic remote
[01:01:34.559] viewing experiences including that
[01:01:36.400] massive simultaneous alien abduction
[01:01:39.280] roswell and the ark of the covenant
[01:01:42.000] excellent i want to remind you all to
[01:01:44.319] like this episode on jimmy akin's
[01:01:46.400] mysterious worlds page on facebook and
[01:01:48.880] retweet it on twitter and share it
[01:01:50.559] wherever you can to help us grow our
[01:01:52.240] audience you can find links to jimmy's
[01:01:54.240] resources from our discussion and links
[01:01:56.240] to the mysterious headlines on our show
[01:01:57.920] notes at
[01:01:59.400] sqpn.com mysterious and remember to help
[01:02:02.960] us continue to produce the podcast
[01:02:04.960] please visit
[01:02:06.280] sqpn.com
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[01:02:33.119] until next time jimmy aiken thank you
[01:02:35.119] for exploring with us our mysterious
[01:02:36.640] world thanks tom
[01:02:38.799] and once again i'm dom betanelli thank
[01:02:41.039] you for listening to jimmy akins
[01:02:42.559] mysterious world on star quest
[01:02:45.790] [Music]
[01:02:54.160] you