Bill Ray, Dramatic Remote Viewing Experiences

• Source: Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World, episode 191, published by StarQuest Media on YouTube
• Speakers: Jimmy Akin, Domenico Bettinelli, and William G. "Bill" Ray
• Published: 2022-01-28
• Runtime: 1:14:12
• URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C0W6QeAe9A
• Audio: 4,451.892 seconds, 41,565,916 bytes, SHA-256 cd7090f75bdaa8146c3226eb07a2a4a654753513bef5dccaca16683e04c2230c
• Transcription: FreeTranscribe.org production pipeline, submitted through /code/transcribe on 2026-09-09. NVIDIA Parakeet TDT 0.6B v3 revision 7c35754d166cca382ad1e53e68b01e7c575f3a1d, model-weight SHA-256 3cbdc85877e668ca7b82d0d56770eb1fac76691f55d6b97545e8d61ca588d10d, artifact schema 2.
• Diarization: pyannote Community-1 revision 3533c8cf8e369892e6b79ff1bf80f7b0286a54ee returned three anonymous speaker clusters. Exact production timing and diarization remain in /code/transcribe/bill-ray-jimmy-akin-experiences-2022-01-28-production.segments.json.
• Transcript body: complete English YouTube captions retrieved on 2026-09-09 and compared against the production transcript. The caption body preserves timestamps and several short passages omitted by the production recognition. Both versions and the audio are retained under /code/transcribe/bill-ray-jimmy-akin-experiences-2022-01-28-*.
• Sourced: 2026-09-09
• Analysis: ../../sources/william-g-bill-ray and ../../queries/2026-09-04-who-was-vallees-gilbert

This is an automated caption transcript and may contain errors in names, acronyms, numbers, and punctuation. Consult the recording and retained production artifacts before quoting.

TL;DW

Ray reads his 1985 session notes from a training target in the Gulf of San Matias, Argentina, where he perceived a triangular craft, humanoid occupants, an abandoned minesweeper, and an underwater installation; he says the fear still affects him but acknowledges that he does not know why Skip Atwater chose the target and found no Argentine naval confirmation. He describes a later private Roswell project as inconclusive because he monitored it with prior beliefs, and recounts perceiving a nine-foot winged being while tasked against the Ark of the Covenant. Ray warns that exotic targets without feedback cannot distinguish an external target from the viewer's or tasker's beliefs, using Santa Claus and Bigfoot as examples.

---

[00:00:00.560] jimmy aiken's mysterious world is
[00:00:02.320] brought to you by the star quest
[00:00:03.919] production network and is made possible
[00:00:05.839] by our many generous patrons if you'd
[00:00:08.320] like to support the podcast please visit
[00:00:10.800] sqpn.com
[00:00:13.280] give
[00:00:14.480] jimmy akins mysterious world is also
[00:00:16.240] brought to you in part through the
[00:00:17.279] generous support of our sponsors
[00:00:18.960] including aaron ferguson electric and
[00:00:21.279] automation at aaronv.com aaronv.com
[00:00:26.800] making connections for life for your
[00:00:28.320] automation and smart home needs in north
[00:00:31.039] and central florida
[00:00:33.280] from the 1970s to the 1990s the u.s
[00:00:36.239] defense department conducted a psychic
[00:00:38.079] spying program that came to be known as
[00:00:40.320] stargate
[00:00:41.600] it was headquartered out of fort meade
[00:00:43.440] maryland and relied on a psychic ability
[00:00:45.760] called remote viewing
[00:00:47.920] one of the psychic spies who served at
[00:00:49.680] fort meade was major bill ray
[00:00:52.320] for a time he also served as commander
[00:00:54.480] of the unit
[00:00:55.520] so who is major ray what role did he
[00:00:58.000] play in stargate and what can you tell
[00:01:00.239] us about remote viewing
[00:01:02.559] you're listening to episode 191 of jimmy
[00:01:05.840] akin's mysterious world where we look at
[00:01:08.320] mysteries from the twin perspectives of
[00:01:10.080] faith and reason in this episode we're
[00:01:13.200] talking about major bill ray and his
[00:01:15.600] most dramatic remote viewing experiences
[00:01:18.720] i'm dom bethanelli and joining me today
[00:01:20.799] is jimmy aiken hi jimmy
[00:01:23.439] dom
[00:01:25.200] psychic spy major bill ray recently sat
[00:01:27.840] down with jimmy for an extensive
[00:01:29.680] interview
[00:01:30.880] in this episode we'll be hearing about
[00:01:32.560] some of major race most dramatic remote
[00:01:34.880] viewing experiences and yes they do
[00:01:37.280] involve aliens so what did major ray see
[00:01:41.040] how does it continue to affect him and
[00:01:42.799] what other experiences has he had well
[00:01:45.520] that's what we'll be talking about on
[00:01:46.720] this episode of jimmy aiken's mysterious
[00:01:49.439] world
[00:01:50.560] jimmy what should we say to begin with
[00:01:52.880] once again i'm very glad to be able to
[00:01:54.720] do this interview and i want to thank
[00:01:56.399] paul smith for putting me in touch with
[00:01:58.240] bill ray paul was another one of the
[00:02:00.159] stargate remote viewers uh remote
[00:02:02.159] viewing is a reported psychic ability
[00:02:04.479] that is said to allow you to pick up
[00:02:06.399] impressions about a distant target
[00:02:08.879] which would be very useful for spying
[00:02:10.800] purposes which is why the us was
[00:02:12.560] interested in it i had the opportunity
[00:02:14.959] to interview paul smith back in episodes
[00:02:16.800] 156 and 157 so definitely go back and
[00:02:20.000] listen to those if you haven't already
[00:02:22.160] last episode we ended on a cliffhanger
[00:02:24.160] where bill was just about to tell us
[00:02:25.760] about one of the most dramatic remote
[00:02:27.520] viewing experiences he ever had
[00:02:30.480] the target was a massive simultaneous
[00:02:33.360] ufo abduction in the gulf of san mateos
[00:02:36.239] argentina and as we'll hear the fear
[00:02:39.440] major ray experienced in viewing that
[00:02:41.440] event was so great that he still feels
[00:02:44.160] visceral fear today when he thinks about
[00:02:46.400] it but nevertheless he's going to read
[00:02:48.720] us his original remote viewing results
[00:02:51.200] of the experience
[00:02:52.879] we'll also be hearing about his
[00:02:55.280] experiences viewing roswell and the ark
[00:02:57.599] of the covenant we discussed roswell
[00:02:59.680] back in episode 49 so you can go back
[00:03:02.080] and listen to that and hear what
[00:03:03.760] conclusions i reach based on the
[00:03:05.360] evidence i found and we'll definitely be
[00:03:07.760] doing an episode on the ark of the
[00:03:09.360] covenant in the future
[00:03:11.760] are there particular things that people
[00:03:13.360] should be listening for in today's
[00:03:14.879] interview
[00:03:16.080] early in the interview he mentions or we
[00:03:18.959] mention a few people that we talked
[00:03:20.480] about last episode one of them was skip
[00:03:23.440] outwater who played a role in helping
[00:03:25.440] start the stargate program and who
[00:03:27.440] recruited bill into it as we'll hear he
[00:03:30.319] was the one who tasked bill with viewing
[00:03:33.280] the mass ufo abduction
[00:03:35.519] the second person was lieutenant general
[00:03:37.920] william odom who was critical of the
[00:03:40.239] stargate program and opposed it as we'll
[00:03:43.120] hear the viewers at fort meade had a bit
[00:03:45.360] of fun referring to general odom
[00:03:48.239] bending his name from odom into odoom
[00:03:52.000] and referring to his supporters as
[00:03:54.720] odomites
[00:03:56.239] the third person was ed dames who worked
[00:03:59.680] in the fort meade unit and did a little
[00:04:01.680] bit of remote viewing for it though he
[00:04:03.599] mainly worked as a monitor for the
[00:04:05.519] regular viewers ed was known for tasking
[00:04:08.319] people with exotic targets like aliens
[00:04:11.200] he's also known for making ominous
[00:04:13.840] doomsday-like predictions in fact art
[00:04:16.079] bell took to referring to him as dr doom
[00:04:20.160] fortunately these predictions haven't
[00:04:22.560] had a high fulfillment rate
[00:04:25.040] bill and i talked about ed last episode
[00:04:27.120] and we'll hear more about him today
[00:04:29.600] not all of our listeners may be familiar
[00:04:31.440] with remote viewing so where should they
[00:04:33.120] go for more information
[00:04:34.960] we've discussed remote viewing a number
[00:04:36.479] of times on the show but basically if
[00:04:39.280] you want an introduction to it go back
[00:04:40.720] to episodes 102 and 103. we cover the
[00:04:43.759] basics in those including looking at the
[00:04:46.240] scientific evidence so you can make up
[00:04:48.160] your own mind whether you find it
[00:04:49.680] credible
[00:04:50.639] we also look at it from the faith
[00:04:52.080] perspective and for even more on psychic
[00:04:55.199] abilities and the faith perspective you
[00:04:57.199] may wish to listen to episodes 105 and
[00:04:59.280] 106 which are on saint thomas aquinas
[00:05:01.680] and the occult
[00:05:02.880] as we discuss in those episodes even
[00:05:05.680] saints and doctors of the church like
[00:05:07.680] saint augustine and st thomas aquinas
[00:05:10.639] believed that god built weak natural
[00:05:13.120] abilities into human nature that today
[00:05:16.080] we would classify as psychic abilities
[00:05:18.160] so listen to 105 and 106 for a detailed
[00:05:21.600] look at the faith perspective on psychic
[00:05:24.000] and other unusual phenomena
[00:05:26.880] excellent so before we get to your
[00:05:29.360] interview with major ray we'd like to
[00:05:31.360] take a moment to thank our patrons who
[00:05:33.120] make this show possible including
[00:05:35.039] jonathan r father andrew k christy w
[00:05:38.479] raymond l and jasper 357 their generous
[00:05:42.320] donations at sqpn.com
[00:05:45.199] give make it possible for us to continue
[00:05:47.680] jimmy akin's mysterious world and all
[00:05:49.759] the shows at starquest you can join them
[00:05:52.000] by visiting
[00:05:53.400] sqpn.com
[00:05:55.039] give
[00:05:56.000] and jimmy akin's mysterious world is
[00:05:57.759] also brought to you in part by catechism
[00:05:59.840] class a dynamic weekly podcast journey
[00:06:02.639] through the catechism of the catholic
[00:06:04.160] church by greg and jennifer willetts
[00:06:06.560] it's the best book club coffee talk and
[00:06:08.800] faith study group all rolled into one
[00:06:11.440] find it in any podcast directory
[00:06:14.400] and without further ado here's part two
[00:06:16.720] of our interview with major bill ray
[00:06:20.160] another thing that happened in april of
[00:06:22.800] 1985 specifically on april 7th was you
[00:06:26.319] had a very powerful viewing session
[00:06:31.680] what can you tell me about that and what
[00:06:34.560] happened
[00:06:35.600] well i i have the summary of that here
[00:06:38.960] and uh this was done
[00:06:41.039] it wasn't done for a customer
[00:06:44.240] skip app water
[00:06:46.560] to have they had an interest in some
[00:06:48.479] that
[00:06:49.360] that's about for one of a better term
[00:06:51.199] flying saucers
[00:06:54.080] we should mention by customer we mean
[00:06:55.919] another agency like the cia or
[00:06:59.599] the drug enforcement agency or someone
[00:07:01.599] like that that we're i'm not talking a
[00:07:03.599] person walking in off the street no no
[00:07:06.000] as a customer was yeah
[00:07:08.639] uh national security council the fbi cia
[00:07:12.479] perhaps a a a particular collection
[00:07:15.280] agency
[00:07:16.560] but uh
[00:07:18.639] this was uh it
[00:07:21.039] was something that joel mcmonagle had
[00:07:23.520] worked it before and i think uh
[00:07:26.720] one other viewer had worked it before
[00:07:29.440] and uh so
[00:07:31.280] i had no idea what it was going to be we
[00:07:33.039] did it crv we started off
[00:07:36.160] and uh
[00:07:37.919] it started let me look at my
[00:07:40.960] yes the uh it started at age 17
[00:07:44.160] and it finished at 10 35
[00:07:47.680] uh 1985 it was a uh which is almost
[00:07:51.039] three hours
[00:07:52.319] yeah two and a half and after that i did
[00:07:55.280] a summary and then we went and did
[00:07:59.280] cr we did a stage five where you
[00:08:02.000] interrogate
[00:08:04.400] uh
[00:08:05.199] certain words come in and you can find
[00:08:09.759] say you say uh
[00:08:12.080] uh
[00:08:13.199] alien okay
[00:08:15.280] and that's the word that comes in crv
[00:08:17.520] now there may be 40 words
[00:08:20.240] that all came or feelings that came
[00:08:22.240] together that made you say italy so you
[00:08:24.800] can interrogate your subconscious to
[00:08:27.520] find out what made you say alien
[00:08:30.879] and uh so we did stage five and then
[00:08:34.080] i did erb alrighty
[00:08:36.959] and uh
[00:08:38.399] if you have time please me i could i can
[00:08:41.440] read it to you here okay this is uh
[00:08:45.040] we went crb
[00:08:47.680] geographical coordinates took it ended
[00:08:50.240] up in the middle of an ocean
[00:08:52.320] took it three times to make sure there
[00:08:53.920] was nothing else around at stage ones
[00:08:56.640] then uh skipped uh we went 10 miles to
[00:09:00.000] the north something should be visible
[00:09:02.320] six miles to the west something should
[00:09:04.160] be visible and that i picked up land so
[00:09:06.720] we were in a bay or something or some
[00:09:08.399] place where there was land around but a
[00:09:10.320] large body of water
[00:09:12.160] and then
[00:09:14.000] we were sure where i was skip moved me
[00:09:16.240] in time
[00:09:18.000] from 1985
[00:09:20.080] the 1981's
[00:09:21.760] they should be perceivable at this
[00:09:23.680] location and this is what i picked up
[00:09:27.040] on an ocean a short distance from a
[00:09:29.040] coast in 1981 there is a ship this ship
[00:09:32.399] has the military feeling
[00:09:34.560] it is smaller than a destroyer there are
[00:09:37.120] only men on board
[00:09:39.040] they are wearing clean white uniforms
[00:09:40.880] maybe even shorts the men are young for
[00:09:43.760] the most part and are athletic they are
[00:09:45.760] on a routine mission
[00:09:47.519] there is a second group of people
[00:09:50.320] involved they are in a large shiny
[00:09:52.399] metallic silver craft that looks like
[00:09:55.120] this and it's kind of a
[00:09:57.360] a triangle shape the second group of
[00:10:00.160] people are unemotional programmed
[00:10:03.360] ordered disciplined interlinked
[00:10:06.000] interconnected interrelated and
[00:10:08.320] intertwined they are cold and unpleasant
[00:10:11.839] they are lean sterile and white not
[00:10:14.720] brother identified
[00:10:17.279] they are returning and gathering also
[00:10:20.000] not further identified
[00:10:21.920] i get no impression of any sex
[00:10:24.240] difference among these people
[00:10:26.560] a shadow falls across the boat the water
[00:10:29.680] is tossing and rising that looks like
[00:10:32.079] the sea is boiling
[00:10:34.079] there is mist vapor and steam around the
[00:10:36.720] boat
[00:10:38.880] the mist is damp and is of several
[00:10:41.120] colors i do not recall what the colors
[00:10:43.519] are and i feel that is not important
[00:10:46.160] there is complete panic and confusion on
[00:10:48.720] the boat
[00:10:49.680] men are screaming and hollering and many
[00:10:51.920] are running aimlessly
[00:10:53.839] others are terrified and screaming but
[00:10:56.320] remain where they are at the stations
[00:10:58.880] the ship smells of insanity and fear
[00:11:02.320] no one knows what to do no one can take
[00:11:05.040] charge
[00:11:06.079] there is a feeling not a color
[00:11:08.959] of red and black like a photograph
[00:11:11.200] negative
[00:11:12.240] i cannot explain that any better
[00:11:15.040] there is a tremendous feeling of gravity
[00:11:18.480] skin is pulled tight across the cheek
[00:11:21.040] bones and i have difficulty
[00:11:23.200] moving my feet off the desks off the
[00:11:25.680] deck
[00:11:26.800] i believe all the turmoil of turmoil oil
[00:11:29.600] is being caused by the cold unemotional
[00:11:32.000] group of people
[00:11:33.519] in the strange-shaped craft which is
[00:11:35.760] hovering over the ship
[00:11:38.000] after a time the spring-shaped path
[00:11:40.480] rises up and goes west over the land and
[00:11:43.440] all becomes quiet in the morning it is
[00:11:45.920] brisk there is a salty clean wind
[00:11:48.560] blowing from the north i believe the
[00:11:51.040] ship is floating in the water quiet and
[00:11:53.120] empty but no living person on board
[00:11:56.320] there is a feeling of entering the craft
[00:11:58.639] the entering is forced and temporary
[00:12:01.839] the attributes and i'm stage fighting it
[00:12:05.200] words
[00:12:06.320] the attributes of the entering are
[00:12:08.800] several in previous up and light is
[00:12:12.320] resistant and is not resistant
[00:12:14.959] the subject of the entering is
[00:12:17.040] experimental and learning
[00:12:19.440] the topics are ongoing biological
[00:12:22.160] developing encompassing
[00:12:24.399] scientific social material research
[00:12:27.120] categorizing cataloging and developing
[00:12:31.040] there is something important underwater
[00:12:32.959] here something to do with bubbles and
[00:12:35.200] spears
[00:12:36.320] the underwater is oblong metallic hitman
[00:12:39.600] sensitive secretive selective colony
[00:12:43.200] the subject is life and ecology its
[00:12:45.600] topics are deep dark
[00:12:47.920] sustaining nourishing acrobatic
[00:12:51.839] safely
[00:12:54.880] now
[00:12:56.240] i've yeah had five combat tours i've
[00:12:59.519] jumped out of airplanes i've been a
[00:13:01.040] ranger mountain climb repelled down
[00:13:03.279] mountains i've been afraid a lot in my
[00:13:05.680] life
[00:13:06.720] and when i think back on those times i
[00:13:09.360] can think yeah i was afraid then but i
[00:13:12.079] don't feel fear
[00:13:14.399] reading this i'm afraid again anytime i
[00:13:17.120] think back to this the fear is still
[00:13:19.519] there it's not a memory it's fear
[00:13:23.200] so this is this is uh such a powerful
[00:13:26.160] experience this particular viewing was
[00:13:28.240] so powerful for you that you still feel
[00:13:30.399] the fear
[00:13:31.440] just remembering it or reading about it
[00:13:33.440] even today
[00:13:34.639] yes
[00:13:35.839] there was a different kind of fear and
[00:13:37.440] insanity there it was
[00:13:40.079] it wasn't
[00:13:41.199] fear fear it was
[00:13:43.279] terror panic
[00:13:44.800] insanity
[00:13:46.079] so
[00:13:46.880] it seems like now let me see if i can
[00:13:48.959] summarize uh for the listener um you
[00:13:53.040] perceive you were targeted on a
[00:13:55.040] particular patch of water in 1985 and
[00:13:58.959] you discovered it was in a bay somewhere
[00:14:02.000] did did you later learn the real world
[00:14:04.079] location of this because of course you
[00:14:05.440] were blind at the time
[00:14:07.040] it's the bay of st augustine
[00:14:10.480] this is the gulf of uh
[00:14:16.639] uh the gulf of saint matthias argentina
[00:14:21.040] okay uh it's also uh that the the ship
[00:14:25.040] was a uh mine sweeper i called the
[00:14:27.120] smaller then i've destroyed
[00:14:29.519] a mine sweeper there's also rumored to
[00:14:31.920] be a
[00:14:34.720] reports of an underwater ufo base there
[00:14:38.480] i can't speak to that but there was
[00:14:40.480] something under the water that also joe
[00:14:42.800] mike monaco also got and
[00:14:45.760] saints joe also picked up the fear and
[00:14:48.160] joe also got the colors
[00:14:51.920] which
[00:14:52.720] the
[00:14:53.440] colors were important but they
[00:14:56.639] they were
[00:14:59.760] not really colors
[00:15:01.440] emotions whatever they were yep okay so
[00:15:05.199] you you saw this spot in the ocean you
[00:15:08.320] learned where it was
[00:15:10.000] eventually you learned where it was in
[00:15:11.519] the real world but you determined it was
[00:15:13.279] in a bay or something or a gulf yes you
[00:15:15.440] go back to 1981 you see this military
[00:15:18.880] vessel which turned out to be a
[00:15:20.399] minesweeper having an encounter with an
[00:15:23.360] unusual flying object that seemed to
[00:15:25.920] have
[00:15:27.279] people on board but unusual people they
[00:15:30.240] didn't seem to have sexes there weren't
[00:15:32.720] didn't seem to be male or female
[00:15:34.800] they um they were very
[00:15:37.440] controlled and interlinked and on some
[00:15:40.000] kind of a mission that seemed to be
[00:15:43.040] involving research
[00:15:45.120] they're causing the ocean around the
[00:15:47.759] minesweeper to boil
[00:15:50.079] or churn and then you sense that the
[00:15:53.920] people who were on the minesweeper
[00:15:57.759] are no longer there or
[00:16:00.959] they're being sucked up and they're left
[00:16:02.560] without anybody on the ship and there's
[00:16:04.880] also some kind of underwater similar
[00:16:08.160] facility or thing there that also seems
[00:16:10.959] to be involved in research
[00:16:13.519] is that an accurate summary
[00:16:15.759] that is and you say that joe mcmonagle
[00:16:18.800] also viewed this and got similar results
[00:16:21.920] yeah and and i think there were two
[00:16:23.759] others
[00:16:24.880] as i recall skip
[00:16:26.720] got this all together and not chosen my
[00:16:29.199] confirmed vern gavin was one of the
[00:16:31.440] people later was the director of the
[00:16:33.600] project right and we talked about it
[00:16:36.000] because it's uh
[00:16:37.920] i think probably to avoid ptsd or
[00:16:40.320] something
[00:16:41.199] this this is the only project that
[00:16:44.240] the only site i've ever worked
[00:16:46.880] that they had trouble getting me to the
[00:16:49.279] site
[00:16:50.560] i
[00:16:52.240] uh
[00:16:53.440] did the ship and did did the morning
[00:16:56.560] and they had to move me back and skip
[00:16:58.320] had to move me back and forth
[00:17:00.160] until i finally got on target i should
[00:17:02.560] mention for the listeners paul worked
[00:17:04.240] the target but had a
[00:17:06.079] point
[00:17:07.120] i i should mention for those of you who
[00:17:08.480] also tried
[00:17:11.280] i'm sorry that's okay uh i should
[00:17:13.600] mention for the listeners that uh it's
[00:17:15.919] sometimes reported that if there's
[00:17:17.439] something at a site that a remote viewer
[00:17:19.679] does not want to see or does not want to
[00:17:22.319] experience
[00:17:23.600] that they can have difficulty acquiring
[00:17:25.520] the target for example some remote
[00:17:27.760] viewers are asked at times to like view
[00:17:30.160] crime scenes and not all remote viewers
[00:17:33.919] want that they may be tasked with a
[00:17:36.320] crime scene and be blind to it and then
[00:17:38.559] their subconscious is reported to say
[00:17:40.559] wait there's something really bad here i
[00:17:42.400] don't want to view this and they have
[00:17:44.080] trouble making contact with the site
[00:17:46.400] you had something similar to that in
[00:17:48.160] this case yes
[00:17:49.919] and that was the only time it ever
[00:17:51.760] happened uh we would give
[00:17:55.360] we would give viewers
[00:17:57.039] difficult targets ugly targets because
[00:18:00.320] yeah as practice targets because in real
[00:18:02.400] life you're going to to view it one of
[00:18:04.880] them was either dachau or auspitz or one
[00:18:07.919] of the prison camps
[00:18:09.919] uh
[00:18:11.200] we uh
[00:18:12.559] and viewers would acquire it and work
[00:18:14.559] but it was difficult to get them through
[00:18:16.160] it we had one viewer who uh whose name i
[00:18:18.720] won't mention we went in and basically
[00:18:21.360] had no problem at all going through the
[00:18:23.200] ashes and we'll see
[00:18:25.679] just a very strange interesting
[00:18:28.960] yes so after an experience like that and
[00:18:32.160] we're going to talk a little bit more
[00:18:33.440] about unusual exotic targets like aliens
[00:18:36.400] but
[00:18:37.280] based on your experience viewing this by
[00:18:40.240] the way before i forget has the
[00:18:42.320] argentine military mentioned that they
[00:18:44.400] had an abandoned mine sweeper have they
[00:18:46.160] made that public
[00:18:47.520] i don't know i don't think so
[00:18:50.320] i i think there's there's you can find
[00:18:53.360] articles on the bay of cemeteries on the
[00:18:55.520] gulf of san mateos the underwater ufo
[00:18:58.559] base has been speculated quite a bit
[00:19:01.600] i don't think
[00:19:03.440] that the uh
[00:19:05.120] the argentine avs has made that a back i
[00:19:08.880] don't know where skip got his
[00:19:10.480] information to target this
[00:19:13.039] on that but
[00:19:14.320] it came from some place okay
[00:19:16.960] um
[00:19:18.240] in late 1985
[00:19:20.640] you became the commander of the unit yes
[00:19:23.039] and i wanted to ask what running it was
[00:19:25.840] like
[00:19:26.720] one of the stories i've discovered from
[00:19:28.720] this period now at this point center
[00:19:30.559] lane had closed when it was under the
[00:19:32.799] army and it was in
[00:19:35.840] for about a year a little more it was
[00:19:38.000] called dragoon absorb
[00:19:40.320] and it was being transferred to the dia
[00:19:42.880] which is
[00:19:43.760] the pentagon's intelligence service
[00:19:46.640] and
[00:19:47.679] during this transition period y'all were
[00:19:49.840] not really allowed to do
[00:19:51.679] hardly any operational missions and so
[00:19:54.160] you had to kind of content yourself with
[00:19:56.080] doing training missions just to keep in
[00:19:58.320] practice over this period
[00:20:00.640] and i can imagine it wasn't really great
[00:20:02.880] for morale to not be able for a year to
[00:20:05.520] do what you're there to do
[00:20:07.679] and i found
[00:20:08.960] uh a memorandum that was written by
[00:20:11.919] somebody at the time i think it may have
[00:20:13.520] been lin buchanan but i'm not 100 sure
[00:20:15.840] that
[00:20:16.720] but he wrote this memo as a kind of way
[00:20:19.600] of keeping up morale at the time and
[00:20:23.520] here's here i'm going to read a little
[00:20:25.200] bit from this memo
[00:20:27.200] the continuing saga of the psi force
[00:20:29.919] five
[00:20:31.039] this week's thriller impending oh doom
[00:20:35.600] as we rejoin our heroes we find that
[00:20:37.919] disaster has taken its toll among the
[00:20:40.240] ranks of the psi force five the loss of
[00:20:43.039] their comrade tom has seriously affected
[00:20:45.679] their ability to save the world from the
[00:20:47.679] encroaching mundanity
[00:20:49.520] of those dreadful enemies of forward
[00:20:51.520] thinkers everywhere the ottomites after
[00:20:54.640] judgment
[00:20:56.159] yes
[00:20:57.039] as our story opens bill the fast-talking
[00:21:00.000] take charge commander of the force is
[00:21:02.159] briefing the crew on the training
[00:21:04.080] schedule and then quoting bill the
[00:21:06.559] commander
[00:21:07.679] i know you all want to get on with
[00:21:09.600] fighting the otomites and saving
[00:21:11.280] humanity everywhere but we are
[00:21:13.440] strategically prevented from working
[00:21:15.440] right now
[00:21:16.400] and this is a good time for training
[00:21:19.280] like my idol general custer used to say
[00:21:22.240] proper training and good leadership
[00:21:24.480] that's what wins battles
[00:21:26.480] yes well
[00:21:28.400] general custer is is a great example for
[00:21:31.120] anything i i i still refer to probably a
[00:21:34.320] couple of times each day when people say
[00:21:36.640] it can't get any better or i say it's
[00:21:38.320] because it can't get any worse that's
[00:21:40.080] what general custer said i i don't think
[00:21:42.559] was a year there was a period of time
[00:21:46.240] and
[00:21:47.120] uh
[00:21:47.919] not to get too far into the weeks but uh
[00:21:52.080] intelligence
[00:21:53.840] had different pots of money
[00:21:55.919] the government has different pots of
[00:21:57.600] money and intelligence
[00:21:59.760] uh
[00:22:01.120] collection
[00:22:02.720] funds are generally from an fci foreign
[00:22:06.280] counterintelligence so we yeah
[00:22:09.440] now we have been kicked out of the
[00:22:13.039] foreign counterintelligence funds
[00:22:16.080] about 1983
[00:22:18.159] because a
[00:22:20.080] staffer from a senator whose name i
[00:22:22.320] won't mention
[00:22:24.880] believe we were doing the work of the
[00:22:26.640] devil
[00:22:27.919] yeah there was no question that we were
[00:22:29.440] collecting information but we were doing
[00:22:31.440] the work of the devil so they kicked us
[00:22:33.600] out of we could not congress
[00:22:36.640] based on this staffer would not
[00:22:39.440] let us use fci funds foreign
[00:22:41.840] intelligence
[00:22:43.039] now inscomp intelligence and security
[00:22:45.679] command we were part of it was funding
[00:22:48.400] us under sni funds security and
[00:22:51.200] investigations
[00:22:53.520] but out of hyde we weren't that money
[00:22:55.520] wasn't allocated it was allocated to
[00:22:57.600] them
[00:22:58.559] so
[00:22:59.520] uh that was one of the problems when we
[00:23:01.600] went over to dia
[00:23:03.280] now
[00:23:06.080] i probably can't get in trouble anymore
[00:23:08.320] but one of the things i did we were
[00:23:10.720] doing training
[00:23:12.640] but what i did was i went around and
[00:23:15.200] i've been in the intelligence deal quite
[00:23:16.960] a while
[00:23:17.919] and
[00:23:19.679] talked to my friends in the collection
[00:23:21.760] units and said no if you have a training
[00:23:24.480] target you'd like us to work we could do
[00:23:26.880] that for you
[00:23:28.640] and so we were working training targets
[00:23:32.400] and giving the results to
[00:23:35.280] uh the units so
[00:23:38.240] uh so it was kind of a worker it was
[00:23:40.320] real world that kept morel up
[00:23:43.039] they kept us
[00:23:44.480] i think if all you do is training
[00:23:45.840] targets you're going to lose interest so
[00:23:48.880] uh yeah and
[00:23:53.039] dia was none the wiser
[00:23:56.159] so you found a way to actually provide
[00:23:58.320] some useful intelligence to people by
[00:24:00.400] calling it a training target
[00:24:03.679] again we treated it like a training
[00:24:06.000] target and then provided them the
[00:24:07.520] results so
[00:24:08.350] [Music]
[00:24:09.410] [Applause]
[00:24:10.720] i think i think statute of limitations
[00:24:12.960] has worn off and they can't prosecute me
[00:24:15.600] and i'm old anyhow life from prison
[00:24:17.600] doesn't scare me anymore i'm pretty sure
[00:24:19.919] it'll be okay
[00:24:21.520] um
[00:24:22.559] what uh so what were like the good and
[00:24:24.880] the bad points of of
[00:24:26.720] of commanding the program how was it as
[00:24:28.640] an assignment
[00:24:31.520] well uh
[00:24:35.360] i have eight years of command
[00:24:37.760] two years with the uh with the start
[00:24:40.320] date
[00:24:41.200] uh probably another 12 16 years being
[00:24:44.559] the special agent in charge of an office
[00:24:47.520] and in some ways this was the most
[00:24:49.520] challenging uh
[00:24:52.000] and it was by 12 people it you know it's
[00:24:54.159] not not a huge and we were all in one
[00:24:56.720] place
[00:24:59.440] but it did
[00:25:02.000] you guys had two there was a lot of
[00:25:03.360] collaborations you were working out of
[00:25:06.080] yes
[00:25:07.440] which wouldn't never got painted i i'm
[00:25:10.320] still signed for them and they tore them
[00:25:12.240] down in the meantime i think but uh
[00:25:16.080] i went i was uh back we were still with
[00:25:18.480] the intelligence and security command
[00:25:20.400] the army
[00:25:21.520] i was down one day uh
[00:25:24.400] and
[00:25:25.520] we were in the process of transferring
[00:25:27.440] over and somebody was talking so
[00:25:30.159] what did paul do
[00:25:31.919] last week i said well
[00:25:34.000] we worked him on a biological lab in
[00:25:36.080] siberia a couple times and then there
[00:25:38.559] was a uh
[00:25:40.960] listening devices in a foreign embassy
[00:25:43.120] and then we worked them against them
[00:25:45.039] yeah well how long did that take there
[00:25:47.039] you know maybe two hours a session so
[00:25:48.960] yeah maybe 20 hours but what did he do
[00:25:52.159] the other 20 hours
[00:25:54.000] yep it was
[00:25:55.360] like you know
[00:25:56.559] you're cheating the government and what
[00:25:58.720] we basically do is this is we sat around
[00:26:01.440] talking or you help somebody else or you
[00:26:03.679] monitored
[00:26:04.960] so if but it was you know if you don't
[00:26:08.000] work you know 70 hours a week for the
[00:26:10.320] military then you really
[00:26:12.480] you really are getting over
[00:26:15.200] and uh
[00:26:16.159] another thing was we were a special
[00:26:18.159] access program
[00:26:20.000] uh you had to be read on to the
[00:26:22.840] program to
[00:26:24.720] be aware of its existence
[00:26:27.120] so
[00:26:28.400] most people didn't know we existed they
[00:26:30.960] they knew something was weird going on
[00:26:32.720] in two buildings in the woods
[00:26:35.120] but
[00:26:35.919] if they don't know you exist then how
[00:26:38.080] can they target you how can they give
[00:26:40.559] you a task to go collect intelligence
[00:26:43.200] for them
[00:26:44.320] right so there's a kind of built-in
[00:26:45.919] limitation of because of the special
[00:26:48.159] access program
[00:26:50.159] you won't get as much business as if you
[00:26:52.320] were more freely known and then you get
[00:26:54.400] asked well why don't you have viewers
[00:26:56.960] viewing
[00:26:58.400] constantly during the work day well yes
[00:27:00.880] we're special access
[00:27:02.720] yeah and uh
[00:27:05.120] dr jack verona was the number one
[00:27:07.120] scientist and at dia
[00:27:10.159] who headed up science and technology he
[00:27:12.880] uh we set up a monthly meeting at the
[00:27:16.080] pentagon
[00:27:17.520] and i'd go down with jack and then we
[00:27:20.320] would tell them what we worked on the
[00:27:21.760] last month
[00:27:22.799] give some examples and then we would
[00:27:24.640] take taskings
[00:27:26.880] the problem was
[00:27:28.720] that i was there so
[00:27:31.360] if you test me i couldn't work on it
[00:27:34.880] so i'd have to leave and jack they were
[00:27:37.600] no longer blind
[00:27:39.440] then i was i was no longer blind in fact
[00:27:41.600] i don't know
[00:27:43.120] how many times somebody came up to me
[00:27:44.880] and said bill we're really worried about
[00:27:46.720] what's going on in afghanistan with the
[00:27:48.480] russians can you do this for us
[00:27:51.039] i would say the union can do it now but
[00:27:52.960] i can't
[00:27:54.880] so
[00:27:55.679] yeah
[00:27:57.840] it was a whole different ball game
[00:28:00.840] and uh engel was
[00:28:03.600] yeah very much into pampering the
[00:28:05.840] viewers
[00:28:06.960] even though he scared the heck out of us
[00:28:08.720] he was into pampering the viewers uh
[00:28:12.399] since then that's that's not necessary
[00:28:14.720] anymore but
[00:28:16.399] it was uh so
[00:28:19.840] uh
[00:28:20.330] [Music]
[00:28:22.240] things that uh yeah
[00:28:24.480] that that in a regular unit you would
[00:28:27.039] have dressed differently
[00:28:28.720] you handle with kid gloves in the
[00:28:31.840] and at stargate
[00:28:33.600] okay
[00:28:34.399] now after after the transfer to dia was
[00:28:37.919] complete the program became known as
[00:28:39.760] sunstreak um it wouldn't be known by its
[00:28:42.559] most famous name stargate for a while
[00:28:44.960] and we also should point out you guys
[00:28:47.200] had the name before the movie and before
[00:28:49.760] the tv show yes so you were not copying
[00:28:52.240] them if anything they could have been
[00:28:54.000] copying you
[00:28:55.360] yes um
[00:28:56.799] but in 1987 you transferred out of the
[00:28:59.840] program uh yes i did what did you do
[00:29:02.240] afterwards and that's normal i gather
[00:29:03.840] normally military officers will have
[00:29:05.760] like a three-year hitch in a particular
[00:29:07.679] right thing and then transfer what did
[00:29:09.919] you do afterwards uh i
[00:29:14.000] took over command of uh company a 527th
[00:29:17.760] of my
[00:29:19.440] which
[00:29:21.200] was europe i
[00:29:23.279] was headquartered in the netherlands and
[00:29:26.159] i had about 150 uh intelligence agents
[00:29:30.720] spread throughout the northern
[00:29:32.000] two-thirds of germany in the ben lux
[00:29:34.399] that
[00:29:35.919] that i commanded
[00:29:38.640] in 19 different locations so i was on
[00:29:41.600] the road quite a bit
[00:29:43.200] i did that for three years and uh
[00:29:47.520] then i retired along with my operations
[00:29:49.919] sergeant and my first sergeant all three
[00:29:51.919] was retired the same day
[00:29:53.679] got hired by the allied command europe
[00:29:56.799] counter-intelligence activity the
[00:29:59.120] american unit that provides ci support
[00:30:02.080] to uh nato
[00:30:04.240] to catch the uh the accent spy there was
[00:30:07.279] a the case had been going on for a while
[00:30:10.480] and we did it we did identify him
[00:30:12.559] eventually and then we basically
[00:30:15.520] uh stuck around uh spent the next 10
[00:30:19.200] years in
[00:30:20.840] europe traveling around so we did 13
[00:30:24.159] years in europe and we as a family i did
[00:30:28.960] my last four children all graduated from
[00:30:31.600] the same high school
[00:30:33.360] which is
[00:30:34.840] amazing uh did that uh when i retired
[00:30:38.480] came back the next day as a department
[00:30:40.080] of army civilian and i was only in
[00:30:42.399] charge of myself and i almost always
[00:30:44.640] knew where i was so i didn't have to
[00:30:46.240] answer any stupid questions that i got
[00:30:47.919] as a commander
[00:30:49.440] and then went to uh
[00:30:51.360] uh after
[00:30:53.200] 10 years
[00:30:54.720] supporting nato went to white sands new
[00:30:57.279] mexico for about another 10 years yep
[00:31:02.080] doing traditional counterintelligence
[00:31:03.919] work as a civilian
[00:31:05.919] uh
[00:31:07.120] some very exciting things had uh had a
[00:31:09.360] good time
[00:31:10.880] uh my daughter and her husband uh who's
[00:31:14.000] british my irish mother's turning over
[00:31:16.320] in the grave i can see but uh they came
[00:31:18.960] over from uh they were living in england
[00:31:21.039] they came over to new mexico had three
[00:31:23.840] children in new mexico las cruces we
[00:31:26.240] were all
[00:31:27.279] then uh
[00:31:28.559] my daughter and her son-in-law
[00:31:30.799] came here to elkhart lake wisconsin
[00:31:32.960] which i didn't really bother me much but
[00:31:35.600] they took the grandkids with them so
[00:31:38.480] i retired from the army and
[00:31:40.720] my wife sandy and i moved out here
[00:31:43.519] about six months later i got bored and
[00:31:46.320] so the intelligence school said do you
[00:31:48.640] want to come to arizona and teach we'd
[00:31:50.559] love to have you so i went to boca
[00:31:52.799] arizona taught for two years in the
[00:31:55.519] meantime i'd also deployed four times
[00:31:58.000] once to go wait three times to iraq so
[00:32:00.720] you were involved in the in the gulf war
[00:32:02.640] in the 1990s and then in the
[00:32:05.279] uh iraqi freedom campaign and things
[00:32:08.080] like that uh my son was i i retired on
[00:32:11.200] one in august and saddam hussein invaded
[00:32:14.320] kuwait until august i think they said go
[00:32:17.440] ray retired you better go now
[00:32:19.840] so
[00:32:20.559] i retired but i was a civilian working
[00:32:22.720] for nato at the time so uh
[00:32:25.440] but uh yeah over the course of i'd say
[00:32:28.320] 2005 i was in kuwait six seven i was in
[00:32:32.240] six seven and eight i was in six seven
[00:32:34.480] eight and nine i was in iraq
[00:32:36.720] and then 10 11
[00:32:39.600] the summer of 2012 i taught at the
[00:32:42.159] intelligence school they said look at if
[00:32:44.480] you like we have a special program
[00:32:46.720] called stable shadow
[00:32:48.399] you can go to uh afghanistan for 13
[00:32:50.960] months
[00:32:52.080] i called sandy and she said okay so
[00:32:55.120] i went off i got back i uh i retired on
[00:32:58.240] again
[00:32:59.519] on 20 september
[00:33:01.679] 2013. so i turned 71 and 72 in
[00:33:04.880] afghanistan
[00:33:06.240] wow
[00:33:08.720] um
[00:33:09.519] now one of the questions that a lot of
[00:33:11.120] people have about remote viewing is what
[00:33:14.320] kind of a phenomenon is it
[00:33:18.240] um
[00:33:20.080] it's obviously not
[00:33:22.159] one of the familiar senses that we have
[00:33:25.600] um but psychic abilities are often
[00:33:29.039] understood to be weak natural human
[00:33:31.760] abilities i sometimes will compare them
[00:33:35.679] to our sense of smell
[00:33:37.600] you know dogs have really sharp senses
[00:33:40.559] of smell compared to humans but humans
[00:33:43.519] we've got this we do have a sense of
[00:33:45.200] smell but it's a lot weaker it's not as
[00:33:47.440] reliable as the dog's sense of smell and
[00:33:50.159] so it's a kind of weak but still natural
[00:33:52.559] human ability
[00:33:54.000] now in the history of christian thought
[00:33:58.559] there have been thinkers like including
[00:34:01.200] doctors of the church like saint
[00:34:02.720] augustine and saint thomas aquinas who
[00:34:05.679] have been prepared to accept the idea
[00:34:08.480] that humans do have
[00:34:10.560] weak natural abilities that today we
[00:34:12.800] would call psychic
[00:34:14.399] both saint augustine and saint thomas
[00:34:16.879] aquinas for example believed in what we
[00:34:18.960] would today call precognition saint
[00:34:21.359] thomas aquinas called it natural
[00:34:23.520] prophecy to distinguish it from the
[00:34:25.919] supernatural prophecy that god gives
[00:34:28.800] saint thomas aquinas also believed in
[00:34:31.280] what today is called
[00:34:32.839] psychokinesis the ability to influence
[00:34:35.520] things at a distance and this was
[00:34:38.399] his explanation for the evil eye
[00:34:42.240] now
[00:34:43.359] even though christian tradition has been
[00:34:45.119] open to the idea of humans having weak
[00:34:47.679] natural abilities that we would call
[00:34:49.760] psychic that's not the only theory
[00:34:52.240] that's out there you'll find a lot of
[00:34:54.079] people today who sometimes reflexively
[00:34:56.720] assume
[00:34:57.839] that anything psychic or anything
[00:34:59.760] unusual including aliens must really be
[00:35:03.119] demons
[00:35:04.480] well you have experience extensive
[00:35:06.880] experience with a psychic phenomenon
[00:35:09.680] remote viewing
[00:35:11.599] based on your experience would you say
[00:35:14.240] that it's a natural ability or is it
[00:35:17.359] demons or is it something else what do
[00:35:19.359] you think
[00:35:20.640] i i think it's a natural ability i
[00:35:25.280] i think there's a spiritual apology to
[00:35:27.440] it uh
[00:35:29.119] yeah uh
[00:35:30.720] i don't claim to be a religious person i
[00:35:33.599] like to think i'm a spiritual person uh
[00:35:37.599] the
[00:35:38.880] say
[00:35:40.000] you the way i've been
[00:35:42.400] you do go to mass though so you're
[00:35:43.839] active i do go to massachusetts yes i uh
[00:35:47.280] pretend communion
[00:35:48.720] i fast during lent
[00:35:51.040] uh
[00:35:53.440] all which are all part of religion i
[00:35:55.680] think spirituality is i used to think
[00:35:57.680] was my contact with the higher power of
[00:36:00.079] god
[00:36:01.119] which which part of it is but i think
[00:36:03.920] much more so it's it's how i interact
[00:36:06.640] with other people in the world
[00:36:08.560] and i think that's kind of spiritual uh
[00:36:11.960] [Music]
[00:36:15.119] the church
[00:36:16.800] is is
[00:36:17.630] [Music]
[00:36:20.640] there are there are a lot of very
[00:36:23.839] yeah miracles are
[00:36:25.599] yeah of course we can attribute miracles
[00:36:27.920] directly to god
[00:36:29.520] uh by location but same martial tours
[00:36:32.240] was about five different top places at
[00:36:34.160] one time
[00:36:35.280] yeah
[00:36:36.960] so uh well fatima you know the the sun
[00:36:39.760] going around in the sky 100 000 people
[00:36:42.160] seeing it
[00:36:43.680] there's a lot of mysticism in the church
[00:36:47.040] i uh yeah
[00:36:49.280] being raised catholic and still being a
[00:36:51.839] practicing catholic
[00:36:53.280] i uh
[00:36:54.480] that one thing that really upset me that
[00:36:57.359] as a youth and i was you know
[00:36:59.520] very very much afraid of going to
[00:37:01.280] purgatory or hell
[00:37:02.880] but the one thing i could never
[00:37:04.160] understand was we were learning
[00:37:06.880] the fifth commandment thou shall not
[00:37:08.640] kill
[00:37:09.839] and that also forbids superstition
[00:37:13.359] and
[00:37:16.320] sister mary murray michael told me that
[00:37:20.160] interesting normally superstition is
[00:37:22.240] lumped under the first commandment
[00:37:24.560] ah well interesting
[00:37:27.040] but uh
[00:37:28.560] the
[00:37:33.119] more i'm more irish catholic than roman
[00:37:35.520] catholic
[00:37:37.200] okay yeah uh yeah uh i believe in you as
[00:37:40.640] the as the irishman said sure i don't
[00:37:42.720] believe in fairies i'm an educated man
[00:37:45.200] but i know they exist
[00:37:47.839] okay but in your experience you would
[00:37:50.480] classify remote viewing as a natural
[00:37:52.400] ability
[00:37:53.440] oh yes
[00:37:54.560] anybody can remove you
[00:37:56.720] it's it it's just a matter of
[00:37:59.280] of learning it now it's like riding a
[00:38:01.119] bike some people will
[00:38:03.440] can enter racism with them and other
[00:38:05.280] people can go to the market
[00:38:07.599] but it's everybody has the ability but
[00:38:10.640] yeah once you learn how to ride a bike
[00:38:13.040] you can ride a bike but until you learn
[00:38:15.200] how to write it
[00:38:16.800] a lot of bruised knees and skinned
[00:38:18.480] elbows
[00:38:20.320] okay everybody can do it
[00:38:22.800] another aspect of how remote viewing
[00:38:25.520] works that's not or is reported to work
[00:38:28.240] is not well understood
[00:38:30.079] um that involves the nature of the
[00:38:33.280] contact that a viewer has with the site
[00:38:36.560] we mentioned a little bit of that
[00:38:37.920] earlier about you know to what are you
[00:38:40.000] pulling information from the site in crv
[00:38:42.480] are you going to the site in erv
[00:38:45.440] i heard you once mention a rumored
[00:38:48.560] chinese set of experiments
[00:38:51.119] that could have a bearing on this
[00:38:53.359] question of is there contact between the
[00:38:56.160] site and the viewer because some people
[00:38:58.800] have proposed a view of remote viewing
[00:39:01.200] where there is not where essentially
[00:39:02.960] what you're doing is kind of contacting
[00:39:05.359] some kind of universal database like
[00:39:07.520] using google you know if i use google to
[00:39:10.240] learn something i don't about argentina
[00:39:12.160] let's say i don't have to go to
[00:39:13.680] argentina and in the same way some
[00:39:16.079] people have said well you're using a
[00:39:17.440] kind of
[00:39:18.480] psychic database to get information
[00:39:20.480] about sites but you're not actually
[00:39:22.240] going or contacting that site um what
[00:39:25.520] were these chinese experiments like that
[00:39:27.520] you've heard rumors of
[00:39:29.520] oh
[00:39:30.560] interesting uh and they kind of changed
[00:39:32.960] the way i thought about remote viewing
[00:39:35.040] yeah
[00:39:36.240] i think that
[00:39:38.079] my previous thought was your
[00:39:39.599] subconscious has access to everything i
[00:39:42.240] think in eastern religions it's called
[00:39:44.000] the archaic table
[00:39:45.520] where all information is what you need
[00:39:47.599] is an address to get it
[00:39:49.599] uh i would have thought that but the
[00:39:51.920] chinese did some some experiments
[00:39:55.359] uh with chinese symbols
[00:39:58.160] logograms
[00:40:00.000] what they would do is they'd write a
[00:40:01.839] chinese symbol
[00:40:03.280] on a piece of paper put it over a piece
[00:40:05.680] of rice paper
[00:40:07.599] seal it in a box and put it in the
[00:40:09.680] ground
[00:40:10.640] and then they would target remote
[00:40:12.160] viewers on it
[00:40:13.920] and if the remote viewer missed there
[00:40:16.400] was no change when the remote viewer
[00:40:19.520] named the target
[00:40:21.200] they would dig it up and they would find
[00:40:23.280] that the
[00:40:25.119] the chinese symbol that had been the
[00:40:27.359] target
[00:40:28.400] had been superimposed onto the rice
[00:40:30.880] paper
[00:40:32.160] indicating that somehow the viewer was
[00:40:34.319] at the site or interacted with the site
[00:40:39.280] so
[00:40:40.079] so it would be like uh kind of like an
[00:40:42.000] iron on transfer
[00:40:43.760] yes with a t-shirt if the viewer makes
[00:40:45.760] contact it transfers some of the image
[00:40:48.240] of the the chinese symbol on the piece
[00:40:51.119] of rice paper
[00:40:52.560] and that would suggest more than just a
[00:40:54.480] database view of remote viewing of some
[00:40:56.480] kind of site contact
[00:40:58.640] that's that's kind of left me
[00:41:01.839] wondering there yeah i always thought
[00:41:04.079] that yeah basically basically remote
[00:41:06.079] viewing
[00:41:06.960] at that time i thought was
[00:41:08.960] your subconscious learning to talk to
[00:41:10.800] your conscience because yeah in the
[00:41:13.520] subconscious according to paul that
[00:41:15.599] deals with 11 and a half million pieces
[00:41:18.319] of information
[00:41:20.079] that at any given moment and about 40 to
[00:41:23.040] 60 of those are passed up into the
[00:41:24.800] consciousness
[00:41:26.319] and that's what you deal with the world
[00:41:29.040] but
[00:41:30.960] have you ever been going down the
[00:41:32.160] freeway or an
[00:41:33.440] pawn and you get the feeling that the
[00:41:35.280] guy is a little bit in front of you is
[00:41:36.640] going to pull into your lane so you back
[00:41:39.040] off and he pulls in no turn signal i
[00:41:41.839] think what happened then was there was
[00:41:43.359] enough
[00:41:44.480] motivation putting on the
[00:41:47.440] subconscious
[00:41:48.400] that have passed that information up it
[00:41:50.160] got through the alignment the barrier
[00:41:52.160] between the subliminal and the limit
[00:41:55.920] there it comes and it's you know
[00:41:58.240] if you're out in patrol or something you
[00:42:00.000] get the feeling that something's not
[00:42:02.160] right somebody's watching me
[00:42:04.079] and i think that's the subconscious
[00:42:06.400] and
[00:42:07.200] shoving that information up
[00:42:10.079] and it's obviously true we do process a
[00:42:12.720] lot more information subconsciously than
[00:42:15.040] we're aware of consciously i did a
[00:42:16.800] calculation once and i realized
[00:42:19.359] you know there's millions of bits of
[00:42:20.800] information coming in through vision
[00:42:22.480] alone
[00:42:23.760] yes and we're not perceiving it as
[00:42:26.319] millions of things
[00:42:28.160] you go crazy and the same thing with all
[00:42:30.319] the receptors on your skin
[00:42:32.800] sounds yeah when you concentrate on
[00:42:34.800] something you shift your focus
[00:42:36.720] now i want to be uh i want to make sure
[00:42:38.880] we're clear on these chinese experiments
[00:42:41.760] this has not been published or publicly
[00:42:43.920] revealed as far as i know this is on a
[00:42:46.560] rumor basis is that accurate
[00:42:49.200] yes and
[00:42:50.560] i would go a little farther than a rumor
[00:42:53.040] it was uh told to me by a very credible
[00:42:56.160] source who would have access to the
[00:42:58.000] information
[00:42:59.200] okay
[00:43:00.160] yeah but as long as i don't identify
[00:43:01.920] them then it's not classified
[00:43:04.160] okay yeah now how would you we mentioned
[00:43:07.280] remote viewing is weak as a human sense
[00:43:09.760] which is why it's not one of the big
[00:43:11.280] five or six um
[00:43:14.160] how would you characterize its overall
[00:43:16.400] accuracy do you have a feel for if
[00:43:18.240] someone is a practiced remote viewer
[00:43:22.240] how often do they hit the target or miss
[00:43:24.880] it or how often is their data good or
[00:43:26.880] bad
[00:43:28.160] oh yeah i have seen several
[00:43:31.839] studies on that
[00:43:33.920] some going as high as 70 percent some
[00:43:36.079] going as low as 15
[00:43:38.079] now i mentioned the red book and on
[00:43:41.119] projects that we had worked overtime
[00:43:44.160] and uh
[00:43:45.839] say the uh uh
[00:43:48.079] for example daniel they declassified
[00:43:51.440] almost all the things we've worked so
[00:43:54.800] i think probably foolishly but
[00:43:58.160] uh the listening devices
[00:44:00.960] in the us embassy
[00:44:03.680] that y'all found
[00:44:05.200] yeah
[00:44:06.560] we uh we identified those but there were
[00:44:09.920] two or three different viewers viewing
[00:44:12.240] that uh and probably a couple times each
[00:44:16.000] so
[00:44:17.760] on the red book at 50 of what we what
[00:44:21.440] we've been asked to view
[00:44:24.000] we gave
[00:44:25.200] to the to the to the customer cia
[00:44:28.560] fbi national security council
[00:44:31.200] and they came back saying that this was
[00:44:34.400] exceptionally high value
[00:44:36.400] not that it was correct but it was
[00:44:38.079] correct and was worthwhile now some of
[00:44:40.800] that information we didn't pick up for
[00:44:43.200] two or three years so some of those ones
[00:44:45.760] that we didn't get feedback on were
[00:44:48.319] obviously correct too i was down at cia
[00:44:51.200] one time and i got a uh
[00:44:53.520] uh
[00:44:55.440] the power of contact is oh bill i got
[00:44:57.599] something for you yeah this you guys
[00:44:59.520] worked this three years ago
[00:45:01.760] before i got there
[00:45:03.359] and here's some feedback on it that we
[00:45:05.359] had gotten but
[00:45:07.200] three years had passed between the time
[00:45:09.119] the project had been worked and the time
[00:45:10.960] we got any feedback on it
[00:45:12.960] so
[00:45:16.319] working as as a group
[00:45:18.880] with various people
[00:45:20.880] i
[00:45:21.920] 50
[00:45:22.800] is is
[00:45:24.640] what i could prove at that time
[00:45:27.599] yeah okay now any any individual viewing
[00:45:31.520] uh
[00:45:36.160] maybe maybe 70 percent
[00:45:38.720] the more you view the more people that
[00:45:40.480] view it the more information you're
[00:45:41.599] going to get
[00:45:42.880] obviously
[00:45:44.000] so it's a
[00:45:47.520] it's a hard question to answer anytime
[00:45:50.640] the most
[00:45:51.839] the one thing that i recall joe
[00:45:53.440] mcmonicle saying i think is probably the
[00:45:55.599] most important thing for any viewer to
[00:45:57.839] keep in mind is that joe said i have
[00:46:00.400] never been wed to any site i've worked
[00:46:03.440] that work and i can let go if it's wrong
[00:46:05.520] it's wrong
[00:46:06.880] and move on to the next one yeah it's
[00:46:09.920] uh
[00:46:12.079] it's the more people who work at the
[00:46:14.079] more times you'll work at the better
[00:46:15.520] information you're going to get
[00:46:17.280] i think
[00:46:18.640] and obviously if you're having 50
[00:46:21.520] of uh the client saying this or the
[00:46:24.640] client's saying 50 of this was very very
[00:46:27.520] valuable to them
[00:46:29.280] that's way beyond what you would expect
[00:46:31.119] by random chance for people just
[00:46:33.280] guessing targets they don't know
[00:46:34.720] anything about yes
[00:46:36.640] okay
[00:46:37.920] the interesting thing is
[00:46:39.920] the scientists and the operators the
[00:46:42.560] scientists want to approve remote
[00:46:44.079] viewing works
[00:46:45.280] the operators want to gather
[00:46:47.040] intelligence so
[00:46:49.119] there is a a built-in conflict there the
[00:46:52.480] the first thing a scientist will ask you
[00:46:54.240] when you come in with the project and
[00:46:55.760] say was it done double blind
[00:46:58.640] now no the viewer was blind the monitor
[00:47:01.440] had some information
[00:47:03.280] because if the monitor has the grass
[00:47:05.599] bucket there's three buildings at the
[00:47:07.280] site
[00:47:08.319] we're interested in the multi-story
[00:47:10.240] building it still doesn't know what the
[00:47:12.640] tasking is but
[00:47:14.240] when the viewer
[00:47:15.680] gets to the site and says there's
[00:47:17.599] multiple buildings here
[00:47:20.000] first of all the monitor can say okay
[00:47:21.760] you're on target which takes away that
[00:47:23.920] fear of failure
[00:47:25.440] and second of all you can say okay
[00:47:27.760] which which target's important well i
[00:47:29.920] don't know which building well let's
[00:47:31.599] look at the multi-story one first thing
[00:47:34.160] so rather than having to send the viewer
[00:47:36.559] out three different times you can do it
[00:47:38.960] on one one shift also is you wanted so
[00:47:42.000] much time on target yeah also if the
[00:47:44.079] monitor has at least
[00:47:45.760] some knowledge of what the target is
[00:47:48.160] then it can avoid wasting a two-hour
[00:47:50.640] session when he's when the viewer is
[00:47:52.079] totally off
[00:47:53.440] yeah they're okay if you don't have it
[00:47:55.920] today let's let's take a break we'll
[00:47:57.599] come back in an hour try it again
[00:48:01.280] many people are very curious about using
[00:48:04.640] remote viewing to view exotic targets
[00:48:07.440] like bigfoot or aliens or atlantis or
[00:48:11.440] things like that or doomsday
[00:48:13.839] um
[00:48:15.280] should people be particularly cautious
[00:48:17.839] with claims of this type or do you think
[00:48:20.160] they're just as reliable as other remote
[00:48:22.720] viewing nope i uh
[00:48:26.480] way beyond the pale i think now ed james
[00:48:29.280] as a monitor would pick targets that
[00:48:31.280] were esoteric and i as a commander i
[00:48:35.119] could allow that
[00:48:36.960] in
[00:48:37.760] that
[00:48:38.559] practice target
[00:48:39.839] it was a practice target yeah and you
[00:48:41.839] never
[00:48:42.640] usually you didn't know going in if it
[00:48:44.480] was practice or it was real
[00:48:47.760] and
[00:48:48.559] the the advantage of ed picking esoteric
[00:48:52.240] targets was that the viewer
[00:48:55.359] had to say what was in his mind yeah and
[00:48:58.720] the one thing that will kill a remote
[00:49:00.400] viewing session is not to objectify
[00:49:03.119] something
[00:49:04.240] you know okay if i think this
[00:49:07.040] this is an angel
[00:49:08.640] if i don't say that and i just keep
[00:49:10.960] going that's going in the back of my
[00:49:12.960] mind that's going to start driving the
[00:49:14.880] data so what that did was
[00:49:18.079] that could have any kind of target at
[00:49:20.079] all so you better whatever came into
[00:49:22.160] your mind get it down because otherwise
[00:49:24.240] you'll obsess if you think this is an
[00:49:26.319] angel and you're trying not to say it's
[00:49:28.400] an angel yeah it's like don't think of
[00:49:31.280] an elephant well now that's what you're
[00:49:32.960] gonna think of there it is yes but uh
[00:49:36.960] overall esoteric targets uh yeah
[00:49:40.800] obviously the the uh
[00:49:42.720] the gulf of san mateo argentina was an
[00:49:45.119] esoteric target there was some some
[00:49:47.839] feedback there because skip had some
[00:49:50.160] information about recovery i don't know
[00:49:52.720] where he picked it up
[00:49:54.319] the uh
[00:49:56.480] if there's no feedback then the session
[00:49:59.119] is kind of wasted
[00:50:01.040] you you don't know
[00:50:03.599] and uh yeah
[00:50:05.359] i suspect that if you view santa claus
[00:50:08.800] you start going down that there is a
[00:50:11.119] construct of santa claus out there
[00:50:13.839] uh you know brightly colored suit uh
[00:50:17.359] uh
[00:50:18.880] a lot of animals involved here
[00:50:21.640] generosity
[00:50:23.359] so there are
[00:50:24.839] things tend to have a a
[00:50:34.160] any tooth period if you view those you
[00:50:36.720] will probably get information on them
[00:50:39.040] yeah so
[00:50:41.440] so
[00:50:42.319] since you mentioned santa claus in
[00:50:44.240] proximity to ed dames there are two
[00:50:46.000] things i have to i have to point out
[00:50:47.839] here uh the first one which you were
[00:50:49.839] alluding to is that um
[00:50:52.720] people's beliefs
[00:50:54.559] about or perceptions or ideas about a
[00:50:57.920] target that does not exist in reality
[00:51:01.200] is thought to be able to bubble through
[00:51:03.920] into remote viewing results so for
[00:51:06.240] example
[00:51:07.359] is supposed that bigfoot does not exist
[00:51:10.319] now we all secretly hope he does but
[00:51:12.480] suppose that
[00:51:13.680] suppose bigfoot does not exist and a
[00:51:16.160] viewer is tasked to view
[00:51:18.800] bigfoot
[00:51:20.000] well his if assuming remote viewing
[00:51:22.880] works his subconscious would then go out
[00:51:24.960] and say
[00:51:29.040] but actually i've got this
[00:51:31.280] whole bunch of people's ideas
[00:51:33.280] about this target so i'll report that
[00:51:35.440] instead
[00:51:36.720] and so you could get a cultural belief
[00:51:39.280] in bigfoot or even one person's belief
[00:51:42.559] being presented as if it's a real target
[00:51:45.920] when really it's what's called
[00:51:47.280] telepathic overlay yes you're picking it
[00:51:49.920] up from someone else
[00:51:51.520] now the other thing about ed dames and
[00:51:53.440] santa claus
[00:51:54.960] is
[00:51:56.160] in 1987 just a few months after you left
[00:51:59.680] the program
[00:52:01.200] um
[00:52:02.240] the other viewers uh
[00:52:04.480] at fort meade had gotten a little tired
[00:52:07.440] of having
[00:52:09.040] uh of having ed assign them exotic
[00:52:12.400] targets
[00:52:13.599] and so they decided for christmas to
[00:52:17.119] prank him
[00:52:18.480] and in chris at christmas of 1987 they
[00:52:21.839] had different members of the unit
[00:52:24.480] they had some they got a tasking from i
[00:52:27.200] guess who the commander at the time
[00:52:29.680] which ed was going to monitor
[00:52:31.520] and then the first viewer who i believe
[00:52:34.400] may have been lynn buchanan would report
[00:52:36.480] i'm getting a sense of
[00:52:38.240] an aircraft but it's not a conventional
[00:52:40.559] aircraft
[00:52:41.760] and it seems to be coming over the pole
[00:52:44.400] and then you would have other
[00:52:46.640] viewers fill in more and more of the
[00:52:50.079] santa claus iconography
[00:52:52.720] in their sessions until it became
[00:52:54.640] obvious to ed that they were pranking
[00:52:56.640] him by having him view santa claus but
[00:52:59.280] initially his perception was of a
[00:53:02.160] terrorist attack coming over the north
[00:53:04.160] pole in an unconventional aircraft
[00:53:06.960] ah
[00:53:07.839] i i did a site for uh where one time
[00:53:10.480] when i did an erv
[00:53:13.040] and uh
[00:53:15.280] uh
[00:53:16.319] left sanctuary went to the site
[00:53:18.800] and there was this entity there about
[00:53:21.119] nine feet tall with wings i figured okay
[00:53:23.920] this is one of ed's
[00:53:25.920] et things but i told him and so i said
[00:53:28.960] well go talk to it
[00:53:30.640] so i went up
[00:53:31.920] and
[00:53:32.800] this thing knew i was there
[00:53:35.680] you know usually yeah even when you're
[00:53:37.839] talking to him
[00:53:39.359] they don't really know you're there but
[00:53:41.119] this so and there was absolutely zero
[00:53:45.280] feeling no emotion no caring
[00:53:48.160] and i said what are you doing here he
[00:53:50.480] said i was told to be here
[00:53:53.280] and i said eddie said he was told to be
[00:53:55.200] here so we'll ask him why he doesn't
[00:53:57.119] leave i said why don't you leave and he
[00:53:59.839] got mad and i say he there was no sex
[00:54:02.559] witness
[00:54:03.599] and
[00:54:04.640] so we went back and forth for a while
[00:54:07.040] and he was this thing was becoming upset
[00:54:10.319] with me didn't know if it was real
[00:54:11.839] whatever but i said ed i'm leaving i'm
[00:54:14.000] coming back so i came back
[00:54:16.640] and the site was the ark of the covenant
[00:54:19.520] oh wow i forgot i missed that went over
[00:54:23.359] to the admin area and i was talking to
[00:54:25.119] paul paul said well they argue the
[00:54:27.200] covenant's guarded by the church and
[00:54:28.800] supposedly yeah
[00:54:30.880] that is that is not my
[00:54:33.280] concept of an angel there was just you
[00:54:35.760] know just obedience i was told to be
[00:54:38.400] there
[00:54:39.440] and if i was questioning it then whoever
[00:54:42.160] told it to be there
[00:54:44.160] yeah
[00:54:45.359] yeah fascinating
[00:54:46.960] yes where that's yeah once again it was
[00:54:49.359] an esoteric target there's no feedback
[00:54:51.760] it's yeah
[00:54:53.440] so you would urge people to be cautious
[00:54:55.280] when they hear claims about remote
[00:54:56.960] viewing things like this yeah yeah it's
[00:54:59.200] yeah
[00:55:00.079] everybody views you know area 51 area 52
[00:55:04.839] roswell and yeah okay
[00:55:08.720] i know that you did a uh project on
[00:55:12.079] roswell
[00:55:13.440] what sense did you and your viewers get
[00:55:16.640] no this was not i should mention this
[00:55:18.480] was not military this was after you left
[00:55:20.640] right
[00:55:21.520] yeah
[00:55:22.240] and this was a uh
[00:55:24.160] i did train a group of viewers in uh
[00:55:27.040] after the project was unclassified in in
[00:55:29.760] the mid 90s uh
[00:55:32.240] the technology was unclassified i was in
[00:55:34.559] the netherlands
[00:55:36.640] and uh i trained uh there was a german
[00:55:39.520] woman who was married to an american
[00:55:42.000] two dutch friends of mine two belgium
[00:55:44.880] friends and a full-blooded navajo female
[00:55:48.079] strangely enough none of them spoke
[00:55:49.839] english as a first language they all it
[00:55:51.760] was a second language for all of them or
[00:55:54.079] for the belgians and dutch third or
[00:55:55.760] fourth sometimes but yep we did roswell
[00:55:59.280] and uh
[00:56:03.599] yeah
[00:56:03.930] [Applause]
[00:56:05.839] it pointed to it being real and anything
[00:56:08.559] more than that that i did yeah i
[00:56:10.880] wouldn't
[00:56:11.920] by real do you mean
[00:56:14.240] terrestrial or paranormal or just things
[00:56:16.720] happened there yeah there were things
[00:56:18.640] happen there there was a cover-up uh
[00:56:22.880] but more than that i i wouldn't go into
[00:56:25.839] it it was uh
[00:56:28.640] and obviously i had some preconceived
[00:56:31.280] notions and i was the monitor so i
[00:56:34.319] i uh
[00:56:36.480] don't need that
[00:56:37.599] it was inconclusive okay and even
[00:56:40.319] conventional uh explanations would say
[00:56:43.200] well if it was a classified mogul
[00:56:44.880] balloon train there was a cover yep
[00:56:48.960] interesting the uh the german woman i
[00:56:51.280] trained i uh
[00:56:52.720] also trained my wife sandy who's part
[00:56:55.119] native american
[00:56:56.960] and so uh
[00:56:58.480] i did custer's last stand as a target
[00:57:00.799] one time and uh i had a very difficult
[00:57:03.920] time getting the german woman to to go
[00:57:06.079] on to it when she you know blood
[00:57:09.280] so
[00:57:10.240] but
[00:57:10.960] sandy went right to it she
[00:57:13.200] had no problem watching soldiers being
[00:57:15.280] killed
[00:57:16.400] yeah by indians
[00:57:18.160] native americans is the correct term now
[00:57:20.559] yeah
[00:57:21.599] yeah okay so one person's uh hard target
[00:57:24.960] is another person's gift that all
[00:57:27.200] depends on i guess where you're coming
[00:57:29.200] from
[00:57:30.400] so speaking of uh of soldiers and
[00:57:33.040] battles um at the time we're recording
[00:57:35.760] this the us has just recently withdrawn
[00:57:38.720] troops from afghanistan
[00:57:40.799] as someone who has
[00:57:42.559] served in afghanistan um
[00:57:45.599] is there anything you'd like to any kind
[00:57:47.280] of commentary you'd like to offer
[00:57:48.720] anything you'd like to say about that
[00:57:50.720] yeah
[00:57:51.599] it's uh
[00:57:54.240] it's been a difficult time i'm uh i say
[00:57:57.440] eight years ago was when i got back from
[00:57:59.440] afghanistan after 13 months there you
[00:58:02.079] were at itself at one point yes i was a
[00:58:05.040] bagram uh
[00:58:06.960] i was in our regional command east which
[00:58:09.200] is the eastern portion of
[00:58:11.839] afghanistan
[00:58:13.200] the uh the one we never got to surge to
[00:58:15.680] since we didn't get
[00:58:17.200] enough people but uh
[00:58:19.760] i'm in contact with a lot of the people
[00:58:21.920] i've served with
[00:58:23.359] and there's been a lot of
[00:58:25.200] you know uh texting back and forth
[00:58:27.680] facebooking back and forth it's
[00:58:30.400] it's
[00:58:34.240] we
[00:58:35.040] yeah we all know people who died there
[00:58:37.359] and uh
[00:58:39.680] then it's been eight years but i know a
[00:58:42.400] lot of the afghans that i that i worked
[00:58:45.040] with are are
[00:58:47.119] are
[00:58:48.720] probably a lot are in trouble
[00:58:50.880] and
[00:58:52.160] so it's it's a very
[00:58:54.799] uh yeah i i do have a hubble just a
[00:58:57.920] hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach
[00:59:00.720] uh
[00:59:01.760] you know thinking yeah yeah people i met
[00:59:04.640] in bazaars and i know there were people
[00:59:06.880] i go to the bazaar shop irregularly
[00:59:09.680] uh
[00:59:10.720] sources
[00:59:12.720] i
[00:59:14.160] did the counterintelligence validation
[00:59:16.720] and all sea ice and all collection
[00:59:19.440] sources in the dark seas
[00:59:21.680] so
[00:59:22.480] got to know a lot of people
[00:59:24.640] who
[00:59:26.720] probably aren't
[00:59:28.799] if they're still alive they're in
[00:59:30.319] trouble
[00:59:31.440] so uh
[00:59:32.480] it's that it is yeah i uh i encourage
[00:59:35.119] the listeners to keep them in and both
[00:59:37.520] afghans and our our people who are still
[00:59:40.319] there in their prayers
[00:59:42.079] yes if you're a praying person i would
[00:59:43.760] ask for your prayers uh
[00:59:47.920] from 9 11 onwards for the last 20 years
[00:59:50.559] all the people who've been affected by
[00:59:52.400] families
[00:59:53.599] families of people
[00:59:54.750] [Music]
[00:59:55.920] and obviously a veteran suicide is a
[00:59:59.599] major issue
[01:00:01.280] and uh i would i would hope this is not
[01:00:03.920] going to make it worse it's uh
[01:00:05.920] yeah
[01:00:06.960] and fortunately for anybody who's
[01:00:08.640] tempted by thoughts of suicide there is
[01:00:10.799] help available yes there is and it's
[01:00:14.480] the
[01:00:16.160] i've had suicides in my extended family
[01:00:19.599] and the family never recovers the
[01:00:22.880] there is
[01:00:25.280] so very sad
[01:00:26.960] and to think that that that
[01:00:29.440] yeah
[01:00:30.720] the hopelessness of of of the situation
[01:00:33.440] the uh that i
[01:00:35.760] the church tends to look on suicide now
[01:00:38.319] different than it did back when i was uh
[01:00:41.040] 50 years ago now it's
[01:00:43.040] somebody who takes their own life is is
[01:00:45.440] probably not in a a sane state of mind
[01:00:49.440] right and the church acknowledges that
[01:00:51.440] even in the last moments of life in ways
[01:00:54.079] that we may not be able to perceive god
[01:00:56.559] can still reach someone with their with
[01:00:58.319] their mercy so there's always hope but
[01:01:00.720] also that's not the answer to if someone
[01:01:03.040] is suffering nope and it it it's taking
[01:01:06.000] your pain and putting it on a bunch of
[01:01:08.400] other people and it's sad
[01:01:11.119] that people feel that there's nothing
[01:01:13.280] else they can do yeah
[01:01:16.319] so to uh to conclude on a bit of a
[01:01:19.040] happier note what are you doing these
[01:01:20.559] days
[01:01:21.599] oh well i keep fairly busy i i work 15
[01:01:26.079] to 20 hours a week and my uh my daughter
[01:01:29.760] and her son-in-law have a coffee shop
[01:01:31.760] here it's a coffee sandwich show
[01:01:34.319] and uh they've been incredibly busy
[01:01:36.559] since uh they both back up we've
[01:01:39.520] during the uh the quarantine we went to
[01:01:42.319] to go sandwiches so
[01:01:44.480] uh that keeps me
[01:01:46.240] in contact with a lot of the younger
[01:01:48.000] people i coached my my daughter's soccer
[01:01:51.200] team for six seasons
[01:01:53.280] and so uh i know a lot of the uh
[01:01:56.400] yeah
[01:01:57.200] now they're yeah
[01:01:59.280] 18 19 years old so
[01:02:02.240] i uh i and the wife both volunteer out
[01:02:06.079] at a
[01:02:07.119] drug and alcohol rehab facility
[01:02:13.520] spend a couple nights a week out there
[01:02:16.400] and i i do
[01:02:18.720] not counseling but i share my experience
[01:02:21.280] strength and hope with the with people
[01:02:23.359] there and
[01:02:24.400] uh
[01:02:25.839] that maintain contact with a lot of them
[01:02:28.720] after they've gotten out and so you've
[01:02:30.960] mentioned kids and grandkids i know some
[01:02:32.720] folks will be curious how many do you
[01:02:34.000] have of each
[01:02:35.440] okay we uh
[01:02:37.440] have six children
[01:02:39.359] i have uh ten grandchildren uh-huh yeah
[01:02:42.559] yeah we uh
[01:02:44.799] it's interesting and uh
[01:02:49.920] i uh a friend of mine my friend an
[01:02:52.559] acquaintance of mine was a child
[01:02:54.640] pediatric uh
[01:02:56.319] uh
[01:02:58.400] oncologist
[01:03:00.720] dr houston children's hospital
[01:03:03.039] and he said that uh
[01:03:06.640] most of his patients died but he
[01:03:09.119] maintained contact with the family
[01:03:11.119] seventy percent of the families have
[01:03:12.799] been contacted by their children after
[01:03:14.960] the child had died
[01:03:16.480] oh we uh yeah we have a son who died uh
[01:03:19.920] at three months yeah
[01:03:22.079] but uh at fort huachuca and uh
[01:03:25.119] that i've been contacted by him twice
[01:03:27.200] since he died
[01:03:29.760] yeah when my wife passed on i i i didn't
[01:03:34.000] perceive any contacts from her
[01:03:36.240] um
[01:03:37.280] because and i think because i had
[01:03:40.079] i wasn't in a position where i mean i
[01:03:42.160] was grieving but i like wasn't doubting
[01:03:45.440] about her
[01:03:46.640] and so i but other people who were
[01:03:49.200] around me whose faith wasn't as strong
[01:03:51.200] as mine
[01:03:52.480] they in reported being contacted by her
[01:03:56.400] um and i think it was her way of helping
[01:03:58.640] them and because my faith was strong i
[01:04:00.559] didn't need that but
[01:04:02.240] um
[01:04:03.200] but indeed there are a lot of people
[01:04:05.280] when someone passes on who report being
[01:04:07.680] contacted
[01:04:08.880] on the way out yeah yeah interesting
[01:04:11.680] yeah
[01:04:12.720] so um is there anything else you'd like
[01:04:14.720] to cover or anything you'd like to plug
[01:04:16.480] before we close up uh
[01:04:19.119] no
[01:04:20.000] uh
[01:04:21.119] i have to see
[01:04:23.119] sunday i i leave for uh
[01:04:27.440] cedar city utah
[01:04:29.760] paul and i are going to be teaching a
[01:04:31.280] course paul smith
[01:04:33.039] uh we have a couple of students coming
[01:04:34.880] from germany to be going through
[01:04:37.599] very happy there we just had the remote
[01:04:39.599] viewing
[01:04:40.480] conference uh in running back uh
[01:04:43.839] new york right irva international remote
[01:04:46.640] viewing association
[01:04:48.640] if people are interested you can go
[01:04:50.400] online and
[01:04:52.240] and find out about irva
[01:04:54.960] org
[01:04:56.079] yes
[01:04:57.760] that's about it it's uh
[01:05:00.559] life is life is good yeah it's uh
[01:05:05.440] nothing but nothing happens in god's
[01:05:07.200] world by mistake so it's it's
[01:05:11.520] okay it's a wonderful life that life is
[01:05:14.079] hard but it's good
[01:05:15.920] well thank you very much major ray uh on
[01:05:18.079] behalf of all the mysterious world
[01:05:19.920] listeners and viewers we really
[01:05:21.599] appreciate you joining us today well
[01:05:23.520] thank you for giving me the opportunity
[01:05:25.200] i thoroughly enjoyed it jimmy
[01:05:28.319] and that's the end of our interview
[01:05:29.760] today jimmy is there anything in it that
[01:05:32.160] you'd like to follow up on
[01:05:34.000] i wanted to follow up on bill's
[01:05:35.520] experience in countering an angel when
[01:05:37.520] viewing the ark of the covenant there
[01:05:39.280] are several things that could explain
[01:05:41.039] that first as you may remember from
[01:05:43.599] raiders of the lost ark the golden lid
[01:05:46.160] on the ark of the covenant had two small
[01:05:49.119] gold statuettes of cherubim on it and if
[01:05:52.400] you want to look that up in the bible
[01:05:53.760] it's in exodus 25 verses 18 to 22.
[01:05:57.680] cherubs or cherubim by the way aren't
[01:06:00.079] the little baby-like angels you see in
[01:06:02.640] paintings those are different those are
[01:06:04.160] called pudi
[01:06:06.000] real cherubim are more primal and
[01:06:08.079] fearsome than that in any event the
[01:06:10.319] statuettes
[01:06:11.760] could have been responsible for what
[01:06:13.760] bill perceived on the other hand the
[01:06:16.079] cherubim on the ark were small and what
[01:06:18.960] he perceived was much larger he
[01:06:21.359] estimated what he saw was nine feet tall
[01:06:24.480] but
[01:06:25.280] when solomon built the temple in
[01:06:27.440] jerusalem he built two enormous
[01:06:30.079] gold-covered statues of cherubim which
[01:06:33.119] he put in the holy of holies standing
[01:06:36.079] over and symbolically guarding the ark
[01:06:38.480] of the covenant
[01:06:39.680] that's mentioned if you want to look it
[01:06:41.039] up in first kings chapter 6 verses 23 to
[01:06:44.880] 28 and these statues were 10 cubits or
[01:06:48.720] 15 feet tall
[01:06:50.640] not too far off an impression of
[01:06:52.480] something being nine feet tall so these
[01:06:54.880] large statues also
[01:06:56.880] could have been responsible for what
[01:06:58.480] bill saw however third possibility
[01:07:02.400] the ark of the covenant is a holy object
[01:07:04.640] that was important to israel and to god
[01:07:07.359] and so when it existed or wherever it
[01:07:10.400] might exist today
[01:07:12.079] god might have actual cherubim guarding
[01:07:15.599] it and that could have been what bill
[01:07:17.680] perceived
[01:07:18.960] finally a fourth possibility as we
[01:07:21.039] discussed in the interview people's
[01:07:22.559] mental impressions and beliefs about a
[01:07:24.799] target are thought to influence what a
[01:07:26.880] remote viewer perceives
[01:07:28.799] especially if the target isn't real
[01:07:31.520] um or you know even if it is so since
[01:07:34.880] lots of people have beliefs about the
[01:07:36.720] ark those could be responsible
[01:07:39.440] i don't have any conclusion here but i
[01:07:41.839] find bill's perception of the target
[01:07:43.839] fascinating and once again yes we will
[01:07:46.160] be doing the ark of the covenant in the
[01:07:47.520] future excellent
[01:07:49.359] so anything else you'd like to say
[01:07:50.640] before we close
[01:07:52.000] just a thanks again to paul smith for
[01:07:53.920] helping put me in touch with bill and a
[01:07:55.839] special thanks to major ray for a really
[01:07:57.920] fascinating two-part interview yes
[01:08:00.160] excellent thank you very much
[01:08:01.839] so jimmy what do we have for further
[01:08:03.520] resources this time
[01:08:05.119] we'll have a link to paul smith's
[01:08:06.960] history of stargate a book called
[01:08:08.720] reading the enemy's mind also an uh link
[01:08:12.160] to an article including a video on uh
[01:08:15.359] his return home from afghanistan in one
[01:08:18.000] of his retirements
[01:08:19.440] a transcript of his description this is
[01:08:22.400] his original remote viewing results of
[01:08:24.960] the san matias ufo incident
[01:08:27.679] also paul smith has an article called uh
[01:08:31.440] ufos and remote viewing that also
[01:08:34.239] discusses the gulf of san mateo incident
[01:08:36.880] so you can read that article we'll also
[01:08:39.679] have articles by paul on controlled
[01:08:42.480] remote viewing and extended remote
[01:08:44.319] viewing as well as information about
[01:08:46.799] general william odoom
[01:08:48.880] and also a suicide helpline because that
[01:08:52.159] subject came up and there is help
[01:08:54.880] suicide is not the answer
[01:08:56.960] there are ways to get help and feel
[01:08:59.040] better
[01:08:59.920] and then lastly we'll have a
[01:09:02.719] link to the webpage of irva that's the
[01:09:05.040] international remote viewing association
[01:09:07.359] that we also mentioned in the interview
[01:09:09.679] excellent so jimmy what do we have for
[01:09:11.679] mysterious headlines this time
[01:09:14.000] well i thought it was uh appropriate
[01:09:15.920] since we were talking about ufos in this
[01:09:17.600] episode to give a bit of an update on
[01:09:20.319] the ufo
[01:09:22.159] situation
[01:09:23.520] with regard to the government because as
[01:09:26.080] everybody knows since 2017
[01:09:29.920] there have been some revelations that
[01:09:32.000] yes the government and the military have
[01:09:34.400] been looking into some ufo encounters
[01:09:36.960] although they use the alternative term
[01:09:39.120] uap for unidentified aerial phenomena
[01:09:42.799] and uh earlier this year
[01:09:45.279] congress tasked the right people with
[01:09:48.400] collating and producing a report on this
[01:09:50.560] and when it came out it was good but for
[01:09:53.199] what it did but it was very minimal
[01:09:56.000] well
[01:09:57.360] congress is not happy with the way the
[01:09:59.679] defense department has been
[01:10:01.760] proceeding in this matter and so there
[01:10:04.159] are new pieces of legislation
[01:10:07.199] that uh have been advanced one of them
[01:10:09.360] will hear about uh new york senator
[01:10:12.080] introducing
[01:10:13.280] elements these are elements that are
[01:10:15.600] supposed to go into or have gone into
[01:10:17.679] the annual defense reauthorization bill
[01:10:20.400] which is a must-pass bill to keep the
[01:10:23.520] defense department running
[01:10:25.360] and um senator a senator from new york
[01:10:28.880] has introduced elements that would
[01:10:31.600] require greater ufo transparency
[01:10:34.880] from the relevant agencies it would also
[01:10:37.360] within the defense department create and
[01:10:40.719] or it would create a a new
[01:10:44.400] body to oversee all of this information
[01:10:48.000] and it mandates additional reporting to
[01:10:51.199] congress and the american public on a
[01:10:52.880] regular basis also additional elements
[01:10:56.080] that are in this proposed new
[01:10:57.520] legislation uh would authorize rapid
[01:11:00.239] response teams for ufo or uap events as
[01:11:04.400] well as saying
[01:11:06.239] hey
[01:11:07.199] guys if we can't make this tech
[01:11:10.480] let's reverse engineer it
[01:11:13.280] and so you have actually even though
[01:11:15.760] there are rumors that
[01:11:17.440] reverse engineering has been done
[01:11:19.840] on
[01:11:20.719] on ufos this would actually make it
[01:11:23.520] official if you get this tech or if you
[01:11:26.159] learn about it let's figure out how to
[01:11:28.239] do it
[01:11:29.199] so lots of interesting stuff congress
[01:11:32.000] cracking the whip a little bit to get
[01:11:33.760] more uh responsiveness on the uaf ufo
[01:11:37.040] uap issue so
[01:11:38.719] what a dramatic change from what it was
[01:11:40.800] like before 2017. no kidding it's a good
[01:11:43.760] thing we have politicians telling our
[01:11:45.199] defense department that they should
[01:11:46.480] reverse engineer uh secret technology if
[01:11:48.960] they come across it yeah way to go
[01:11:51.920] all right those are excellent headlines
[01:11:54.000] so that's it from us what are your
[01:11:56.480] theories about major raised dramatic
[01:11:58.480] remote viewing experiences the mass ufo
[01:12:01.040] objection roswell and the ark of the
[01:12:02.880] covenant you can let us know by visiting
[01:12:05.520] sqpn.com
[01:12:07.360] or the jimmy akins mysterious world
[01:12:09.280] facebook page you can send an email to
[01:12:11.600] mysterious
[01:12:13.000] sqpn.com send a tweet to at mys
[01:12:16.400] underscore world
[01:12:17.840] or call our mysterious feedback line at
[01:12:20.239] 618 738
[01:12:23.520] that's 618-738-4515
[01:12:28.080] so jimmy what's our next episode going
[01:12:29.920] to be about next week we're going to
[01:12:32.320] africa in the 1980s
[01:12:35.280] in the country of rwanda there were
[01:12:37.760] reports of the virgin mary appearing
[01:12:40.719] as our lady of cabejo and she gave a
[01:12:44.080] dramatic warning about some terrible
[01:12:46.400] events
[01:12:47.440] that later followed so we'll be hearing
[01:12:49.199] all about that
[01:12:50.480] excellent
[01:12:51.600] folks be sure to follow jimmy akins
[01:12:53.679] mysterious world in apple podcast google
[01:12:56.400] podcast spotify stitcher tune in your
[01:12:59.280] favorite podcast app or on youtube at
[01:13:02.239] the jimmy aiken youtube channel or the
[01:13:04.239] sqpn youtube channel we should make sure
[01:13:06.480] to hit the bell to get notifications you
[01:13:09.120] can find links to jimmy's resources from
[01:13:10.880] our discussion and links to the
[01:13:12.239] mysterious headlines on our show notes
[01:13:14.480] at sqpn.com
[01:13:16.840] mysterious and remember to help us
[01:13:18.880] continue to produce the podcast please
[01:13:21.120] visit sqpn.com
[01:13:24.080] give
[01:13:25.199] jimmy akin's mysterious world is also
[01:13:27.120] brought to you in part by fear vento law
[01:13:29.199] pllc specializing in adult guardianships
[01:13:32.880] and conservatorships probate and estate
[01:13:35.360] planning matters
[01:13:36.719] accepting clients throughout michigan
[01:13:38.480] taking into account your individual
[01:13:40.400] health care financial and religious
[01:13:42.640] needs
[01:13:43.520] visit fearventolaw.com
[01:13:47.239] f-i-o-r-v-e-n-t-o law.com
[01:13:50.400] until next time jimmy akin thank you for
[01:13:52.480] exploring with us our mysterious world
[01:13:54.640] thanks tom
[01:13:56.000] and once again i'm dom betanelli thank
[01:13:58.159] you for listening to jimmy akin's
[01:13:59.679] mysterious world on star quest
[01:14:03.970] [Music]