Raw capture
Bigelow/Fugal - Meeting of the Moguls, Bigelow Podcast episode 4
Bigelow/Fugal - Meeting of the Moguls, Bigelow Podcast episode 4
- Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ZC0dfmOGo
- Channel: Bigelow Podcast, @BigelowPodcast
- Published: 2026-08-25
- Duration: 57:58
- Participants: Robert Bigelow, Brandon Fugal, and host George Knapp
- Extraction: complete timestamped English auto-caption transcript via
/code/scripts/youtube_transcript.py, captured 2026-08-25 - Fidelity note: the caption text is preserved as supplied by YouTube. It repeatedly misrenders Bigelow, BAASS, AAWSAP, NIDS, Uintah, and other names and acronyms. Consult the video before quoting those details.
- Continuation: the episode announces part two for 2026-09-01; that installment was not yet available when this transcript was captured.
- Analysis: ../../sources/bigelow-aerospace-enabler and ../../sources/skinwalker-ranch
[00:00:03.929] [music]
[00:00:09.825] [music]
[00:00:11.599] I guess we could call this a meeting of
[00:00:13.200] the minds or a meeting of the moguls.
[00:00:15.920] Um, you know, this this year 2026 is a
[00:00:19.039] big anniversary year for the ranch. It's
[00:00:21.359] 20 years ago, 30 years ago you bought
[00:00:23.439] it. 10 years ago you bought it. Have you
[00:00:26.160] guys spoken to each other since that
[00:00:28.640] exchange was made? So, we've actually
[00:00:30.320] bought the farm. Is that what you're
[00:00:31.679] trying to tell us? Right.
[00:00:32.880] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[00:00:33.600] >> Have you have you spoken to each other
[00:00:35.520] since then?
[00:00:36.000] >> Yeah. So, we we we had
[00:00:39.200] >> I'll take that first. Um we had some
[00:00:42.640] great dialogue. I had the the privilege
[00:00:44.800] of flying down here to Las Vegas to meet
[00:00:47.600] with Robert and to see his incredible uh
[00:00:51.280] aerospace facility out in North Las
[00:00:53.600] Vegas and and have the discussion around
[00:00:57.440] the potential acquisition of the ranch.
[00:00:59.520] We continued that dialogue, turned it
[00:01:01.440] over to our attorneys and ended up
[00:01:04.400] concluding that and and I think within a
[00:01:09.200] year or two we hosted a gathering in
[00:01:11.520] Salt Lake City with many of the former
[00:01:14.320] members of the NIDS and Bass team as
[00:01:17.119] well as my team of scientists and uh
[00:01:21.200] engineers and
[00:01:23.759] um and and really used that as a
[00:01:26.240] foundation to kick off our
[00:01:30.240] stewardship and investigation of
[00:01:33.600] Skinwalker Ranch with with the Bigalow
[00:01:36.479] team's advice and guidance. But since
[00:01:39.119] that time, we've both been crazy busy
[00:01:42.000] going different directions. And this is
[00:01:44.799] this is without question, George, I
[00:01:46.720] think, a most historic moment
[00:01:49.600] for these topics. not just a discussion
[00:01:53.040] about Skinwalker Ranch and the most
[00:01:55.840] scientifically studied paranormal hot
[00:01:57.680] spot on the planet, but I think this is
[00:02:00.159] historic and that we're we're touching
[00:02:02.320] on topics that I believe people should
[00:02:05.840] be paying more attention to than ever.
[00:02:09.759] >> I agree. Yeah. So, last night we were
[00:02:13.920] del deep diving into consciousness.
[00:02:16.720] >> Well, we're going to we're going to go
[00:02:17.920] there. We're going to, I think, maybe
[00:02:19.599] break some news today about future of
[00:02:22.239] the ranch and investigations of this
[00:02:24.000] nature. But I wanted to do review some
[00:02:26.239] of what uh the water that's gone under
[00:02:28.239] the paranormal bridge, so to speak. And
[00:02:30.319] uh you know, 30 years ago, uh the
[00:02:33.120] investigation, scientific investigation
[00:02:34.959] began. It is the most intensely studied
[00:02:37.360] paranormal UFO hotspot in the world
[00:02:39.519] because the investigation's been
[00:02:41.200] ongoing. Uh but I'm wondering if we can
[00:02:43.519] get into, you know, sort of what we
[00:02:45.200] learned. Uh, Robert, when you bought the
[00:02:46.879] property uh in 1996, did you have a game
[00:02:50.160] plan? I mean, it wasn't exactly a
[00:02:52.000] blueprint for studying a place like
[00:02:54.160] that, but you you go there because it
[00:02:56.080] had a lot of UFO activity in the Uenta
[00:02:58.720] basin and on the ranch and some
[00:03:00.319] mutilations. You didn't know all the
[00:03:02.400] other stuff that was going on there,
[00:03:03.680] though, did you?
[00:03:05.680] >> We had uh we had operated that ranch
[00:03:08.480] prior to the uh to the contract with DIA
[00:03:12.159] uh for quite a few years. So we knew um
[00:03:16.720] back in I think we occup we we uh
[00:03:19.360] contracted for that ranch with with
[00:03:21.040] Terry Sherman in 95 was it 956
[00:03:24.720] >> about 95.
[00:03:26.319] >> The [clears throat] DIA contract started
[00:03:28.239] in uh September of 2008.
[00:03:32.560] >> So we already had a history
[00:03:35.519] and it wasn't just focused on what was
[00:03:38.879] happening on that ranch. It was other
[00:03:41.519] ranches, sister ranches contiguous to it
[00:03:43.920] and outside of that for some distance.
[00:03:46.799] And we particularly established a strong
[00:03:50.000] rapport with BIA and the deputy
[00:03:54.159] sheriff's department. Um, and we we
[00:03:59.040] gained enormous information
[00:04:01.760] by what they saw, what they chased,
[00:04:06.080] um, what happened in their homes, what
[00:04:09.040] happened in broad daylight in their
[00:04:10.560] front yards. One I I never will forget,
[00:04:13.760] uh, a story by by one BIA fellow and,
[00:04:17.519] uh, he said that his wife was
[00:04:20.400] hysterical. So they she was out in the
[00:04:22.079] yard with her little boy and this thing
[00:04:26.800] jumped over this this alien creature
[00:04:30.080] jumped over a cyclone fence like it was
[00:04:32.960] nothing way over it and got within and
[00:04:36.800] jumped on top of the roof of their house
[00:04:38.560] as I recall. uh and she went hysterical
[00:04:43.440] and then it it leaped enormous distances
[00:04:47.280] uh like maybe 50 ft at a time uh and
[00:04:50.400] disappeared. So her husband ran came
[00:04:53.520] drove to the house very quickly and
[00:04:55.360] checked everything out and so forth. But
[00:04:58.560] that that anomalous kind of story and
[00:05:01.680] creature is which is unbelievable
[00:05:04.578] [clears throat] was it part of the of
[00:05:08.160] the um uh the the the data that we had
[00:05:13.919] and the number of testimonies reliable
[00:05:16.800] witnesses that we had in addition to the
[00:05:19.919] sheriff people and the BIA people
[00:05:22.080] themselves not just their family
[00:05:24.160] members. So, we got into some really
[00:05:26.720] interesting things that were amazing.
[00:05:29.360] And I think you guys covered a couple of
[00:05:31.600] the stories uh in the skinwalker
[00:05:34.960] um uh where the motel, the creature that
[00:05:38.160] was that was trying to to climb over a
[00:05:41.199] uh a wall, a pony wall, and uh the dog
[00:05:44.639] was barking in an A-frame office at the
[00:05:47.039] motel. And um and there was a security
[00:05:50.560] guard there and
[00:05:52.000] >> Yeah. and he walked down and and uh
[00:05:55.360] called uh for assistance and as the as
[00:05:59.680] the sheriff people got there and they
[00:06:02.000] wound up chasing this thing, right? And
[00:06:04.800] and they [laughter]
[00:06:06.160] and it was it was going so fast they had
[00:06:08.240] a hard time keeping up with it before it
[00:06:10.319] dove into a bunch of houses on the res.
[00:06:13.199] You know that isn't that the story? I
[00:06:15.120] believe it was
[00:06:15.759] >> when you're first there you go you fly
[00:06:18.000] down to see the the rancher. You you
[00:06:20.720] meet with him. He tells you some of what
[00:06:22.639] had been going on there. Then you you
[00:06:24.800] buy the property and you your guys go in
[00:06:26.880] and you start learning all this strange
[00:06:29.759] range of extraordinary events. You
[00:06:31.680] didn't know all that stuff was happening
[00:06:33.360] when you when you bought the place,
[00:06:34.720] right?
[00:06:36.160] >> No. Because there we you know the uh the
[00:06:39.840] volume of stories and and personal
[00:06:42.000] encounters were far greater than the
[00:06:44.800] initial contact would tell you with
[00:06:46.479] somebody you know as an owner. And we
[00:06:48.479] learned more and more on our own. And
[00:06:50.960] then we hired him as a manager for
[00:06:53.964] [clears throat] a year and a half or two
[00:06:55.280] years. He was the manager there. So he
[00:06:58.240] was the guy that already had the
[00:07:00.000] history. When we started the OSAP
[00:07:02.639] program, then it became much more
[00:07:05.280] elevated with far more staff up to 50
[00:07:08.560] people is what we had. And but we
[00:07:11.840] encountered we we we went people went to
[00:07:14.800] Brazil and outside of the United States
[00:07:16.319] and other places uh in South America and
[00:07:19.919] um so we were looking at other hotspots
[00:07:22.720] around the United States besides
[00:07:24.080] Skinwalker. We found a number of other
[00:07:26.160] locations that were very active. Also in
[00:07:30.240] 96 in this building uh the NID science
[00:07:34.240] advisory board has its first meeting and
[00:07:36.720] then a couple months later you you buy
[00:07:38.479] the ranch but nobody had a game plan.
[00:07:40.880] You didn't know exactly the the vast
[00:07:42.800] range of different experiences and
[00:07:45.039] phenomena that were there just that it
[00:07:46.560] was a UFO hotspot and some mutilations
[00:07:48.639] but there is no there's no blueprint for
[00:07:51.120] what you're going to do. Did you know
[00:07:52.800] what the approach was going to be when
[00:07:54.240] you went in?
[00:07:54.800] >> You're winging it for a particular site.
[00:07:56.639] You you have you know what the that the
[00:07:59.280] in in
[00:08:01.919] what you if you research a lot a lot
[00:08:03.919] about the the phenomena and the subject
[00:08:06.240] matter you're aware of all of the
[00:08:09.039] engagements nationwide and maybe
[00:08:11.840] globally a lot of them not all of them
[00:08:14.479] but a lot of them. Um,
[00:08:17.440] so it's not though it's not as though
[00:08:19.280] you're going in blind, totally blind,
[00:08:21.680] but you don't know obviously what a
[00:08:23.840] single location is going to produce. You
[00:08:26.639] don't realize that you just walked into
[00:08:30.319] another dimensional area that is is
[00:08:34.719] active and vibrant and uh is really
[00:08:39.039] dynamic in the diversity of activities
[00:08:41.360] that are going to be ex exhibited to you
[00:08:43.760] or that that are going to involve you.
[00:08:46.720] Um and and there are not always there's
[00:08:50.080] no warning for what most of this
[00:08:52.240] happens. There is no and a lot of things
[00:08:54.880] aren't repeated the same way twice.
[00:08:57.200] They're unique. You know, a lot of them
[00:08:59.279] are unique. The the draining of the
[00:09:01.279] batteries and yeah, that happens. There
[00:09:02.959] are things like that that are regular,
[00:09:04.320] but other more dynamic things u are kind
[00:09:07.920] of customed depending upon really what
[00:09:10.399] you're doing and some some version of
[00:09:13.680] interfering with what you're doing is is
[00:09:16.000] going to occur. And then it has over the
[00:09:19.600] years the interference has become much
[00:09:22.000] more serious as time gone by. Um there's
[00:09:26.000] tremendous liability concerns and and
[00:09:28.800] it's become something that the risk of
[00:09:31.760] of a living laboratory has become
[00:09:36.720] a far than any kind of normal laboratory
[00:09:39.760] that ever exists. It's the most unique
[00:09:42.880] kind of laboratory that ever exists in
[00:09:44.720] any kind of building anywhere on the
[00:09:46.160] planet.
[00:09:47.279] uh even though we've had
[00:09:49.440] materializations of things in our
[00:09:51.120] aerospace plant doesn't hold a candle to
[00:09:54.240] to the skinwalker ranch. We'll get into
[00:09:56.800] some of that and into your decision to
[00:09:58.959] sell the property. Brandon, um you
[00:10:01.600] didn't believe any of this stuff, but
[00:10:02.720] Colum Keller and I wrote a book in 2005.
[00:10:05.519] I I recall the reaction from Law of the
[00:10:07.920] Public is we made it up or Robert
[00:10:10.560] Bigalow made it up because he wanted to
[00:10:12.399] build a paranormal hotel on there and
[00:10:14.560] make a bunch of money which was of
[00:10:16.720] course ridiculous and never an
[00:10:18.982] [clears throat] idea.
[00:10:19.600] >> Right.
[00:10:20.000] >> You had an idea when you bought it. You
[00:10:21.519] didn't believe it. You you were a
[00:10:23.360] skeptic and you thought, gosh, this is a
[00:10:26.160] really beautiful ranch. Maybe a great
[00:10:27.839] place for Boy Scouts. Right.
[00:10:29.440] >> Exactly. At the time I was on the board
[00:10:31.680] of the National Parks Council of the Boy
[00:10:33.920] Scouts of America and was an Eagle Scout
[00:10:36.880] and I I saw this property as a as a
[00:10:40.959] beautiful opportunity and and location
[00:10:43.920] for the scouting program and to inspire
[00:10:46.720] the next generations. But I wanted to
[00:10:48.720] satisfy my curiosity and to be able to
[00:10:52.160] through the scientific method and
[00:10:54.399] through third-party experts
[00:10:57.200] confirm that there really wasn't
[00:10:58.720] anything unusual
[00:11:00.902] [clears throat] happening on Skinwalker
[00:11:02.880] Ranch. And so I did indeed buy it as a
[00:11:05.600] skeptic with that in mind. Uh, and for
[00:11:08.480] the first 6 months, with the exception
[00:11:10.640] of some really strange images that were
[00:11:13.360] captured by my my drone surveyor and
[00:11:16.720] security, uh, which I thought could just
[00:11:19.120] as well be Lockheed Skunk Works or some
[00:11:22.320] other classified program testing within
[00:11:25.760] the the airspace. I really wasn't
[00:11:28.480] convinced that there was anything truly
[00:11:30.160] unusual happening on the property. Every
[00:11:32.880] time I visited on a monthly basis those
[00:11:35.360] first 6 months, uh it was a peaceful,
[00:11:39.440] pristine, very diverse landscape. Uh and
[00:11:44.320] I saw it as as potentially a scouting
[00:11:48.320] retreat.
[00:11:48.880] >> Can you imagine Can you imagine having
[00:11:50.800] your paranormal hotel and letting people
[00:11:53.040] come in and you having boy scout camps
[00:11:55.040] there?
[00:11:55.600] >> Yeah. In retrospect, it's hilarious.
[00:11:57.839] It's it's pretty humorous to think that
[00:11:59.600] that's where my mindset was, but I I had
[00:12:02.959] grown quite skeptical of these topics um
[00:12:06.639] even matters of faith and I felt like
[00:12:09.600] everything could be explained by
[00:12:11.839] critical thinking
[00:12:13.839] and scientific rigor and applying the
[00:12:17.600] scientific method. And I [snorts]
[00:12:21.360] I was wrong. uh I ultimately not only
[00:12:25.600] moved from being a skeptic to an
[00:12:28.160] experiencer
[00:12:29.760] but have now amassed a data set that
[00:12:34.320] that is it's compelling there is nothing
[00:12:38.160] like it on the planet and I would say if
[00:12:40.639] not for the courage and the foundational
[00:12:43.920] efforts of Robert Bigalow and his team
[00:12:47.200] we wouldn't be where we're at today and
[00:12:49.279] and I think our understanding of our
[00:12:51.360] place in in the universe, we'd be in in
[00:12:54.399] in a a much different position.
[00:12:57.120] >> Robert had sent me a text a couple of
[00:12:59.040] days ago and said, "You think Brandon
[00:13:01.279] Fugle would come on our podcast?" I
[00:13:03.600] said, "Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know the
[00:13:05.279] answer to that." I text Brandon. He's
[00:13:08.240] he's available 5 minutes later for a
[00:13:10.399] phone call and agrees, uh, I'm ready to
[00:13:13.040] jump on the plane and come on down here
[00:13:14.480] at any point. I I would imagine even
[00:13:16.079] though the you guys haven't talked a lot
[00:13:17.760] in the years since the property was uh
[00:13:20.240] was sold, um there's some mutual respect
[00:13:22.720] there because you both view it as you're
[00:13:25.120] stewards of that property. You're not
[00:13:26.639] owning it. You're not exploiting it.
[00:13:28.320] You're stewards
[00:13:29.600] >> and kind of keeping an eye on it and
[00:13:31.279] keeping it out of uh harming other
[00:13:33.760] people,
[00:13:34.240] >> right? Absolutely.
[00:13:35.760] >> Well, Robert has a legacy. This is part
[00:13:38.800] of his extraordinary legacy. And we've
[00:13:41.920] tried to do our best through our
[00:13:43.920] stewardship to carry that forward and
[00:13:47.440] and to conduct a scientific
[00:13:49.360] investigation that will hopefully yield
[00:13:51.600] insights
[00:13:53.120] and inform the public relative to the
[00:13:56.720] reality of these things that were talked
[00:13:59.040] about in your book decades ago. And so
[00:14:02.240] to to sit here today, I mean, this is a
[00:14:04.880] historic moment. Um, it it's often said
[00:14:09.120] you we stand on the shoulders of giants.
[00:14:11.760] I don't know any private individual on
[00:14:14.480] the planet that has has had more courage
[00:14:18.160] and has invested more in his tenure than
[00:14:22.240] Robert Bigalow. And so to to have the
[00:14:24.079] opportunity to come together in your
[00:14:26.880] headquarters and to be able to have a
[00:14:29.760] collaborative discussion and compare
[00:14:31.839] notes after a decade of Well, the
[00:14:35.600] feeling the feeling is mutual because
[00:14:37.199] what Brandon has undertaken is is
[00:14:39.920] extraordinary exposure to the general
[00:14:42.399] public that we never did. And so the
[00:14:45.199] general public has been elevated in
[00:14:47.199] their knowledge thanks to him and and
[00:14:50.639] the entire show um about things that go
[00:14:54.740] [clears throat] bump in the night, you
[00:14:56.320] know, and about consciousness and and
[00:14:58.800] things that are abnormal. So, where else
[00:15:01.680] uh on TV are you going to find that kind
[00:15:03.920] of information? So, he's done all that
[00:15:06.320] on his own.
[00:15:08.079] >> When Nids was first there, it's like the
[00:15:10.240] cone of silence drops over the ranch.
[00:15:12.000] There were a couple of newspaper stories
[00:15:13.440] that were out and I think maybe one or
[00:15:15.120] two of them had caught your attention uh
[00:15:17.440] in in before you bought the property.
[00:15:19.199] But when you send your guys on there and
[00:15:21.040] they start seeing this stuff for
[00:15:22.320] themselves, holy cow, this is true. Uh
[00:15:25.519] you kept it quiet. you uh a for the
[00:15:27.920] integrity of what the investigation was
[00:15:29.680] and b
[00:15:30.800] >> you don't want to attract a lot of
[00:15:32.160] attention and people be overrun with it.
[00:15:34.880] I I know that there has been criticism,
[00:15:36.720] Brandon, when I first met some of your
[00:15:38.240] team members before the show was on the
[00:15:39.760] air, they said, "Well, Bigalow, he won't
[00:15:41.680] share any of the data." And I I don't
[00:15:43.199] know what the data would be because
[00:15:45.279] nothing ever replicates, never nothing
[00:15:47.440] ever duplicates the same way. You have a
[00:15:50.399] ton of experiences and both of you your
[00:15:52.800] approach has been poke the bear and see
[00:15:55.040] what happens. But what what you couldn't
[00:15:57.920] have published a scientific paper if you
[00:16:00.160] wanted to, right? back then
[00:16:03.839] >> we we weren't trying to uh stimulate
[00:16:08.399] um the performances. Exactly. We we were
[00:16:11.759] kind of if there were cattle mutilation,
[00:16:14.480] we put we I bought Terry's Terry
[00:16:17.519] Sherman's group of cows and
[00:16:21.199] the poor things were bait for a cattle
[00:16:24.399] mutilation. So we could we can do a
[00:16:26.480] necropsy on the animal and to understand
[00:16:28.720] and maybe uh somehow learn a lot more uh
[00:16:33.120] about how these occur uh because they
[00:16:36.160] have happened in every single state in
[00:16:37.920] the United States. uh thousands of these
[00:16:40.480] cases. They're the most successful crime
[00:16:42.720] that has ever happened. So,
[00:16:46.091] [clears throat] we did things like that.
[00:16:47.920] Um we set up uh games in the old
[00:16:51.839] homesteads to be acted on. So, we did
[00:16:54.480] those kinds of things to to see um uh
[00:16:59.279] I'm not saying to try to establish a
[00:17:01.920] relationship exactly, but to try to get
[00:17:04.559] a feel for [clears throat]
[00:17:07.839] something that we could engage
[00:17:10.799] and get a response back in some kind of
[00:17:13.679] way. And the most serious thing were
[00:17:16.000] would be the mutilation of a of an
[00:17:17.600] animal. That would be that was the most
[00:17:19.919] serious thing. And so, um, we had our
[00:17:23.679] security people there to keep people
[00:17:25.600] out. And, um, that was kind of our
[00:17:28.880] thinking.
[00:17:29.840] >> You had, uh, mutilations of cows.
[00:17:33.039] >> Uh, you had mutilations of, you had dogs
[00:17:35.520] that were vaporized when, when, when,
[00:17:36.640] when, when, when, when, when, when,
[00:17:36.640] when, when the rancher was there. There
[00:17:38.400] >> Terry did.
[00:17:38.960] >> M. Yeah, Terry did. There were cats that
[00:17:40.880] were mutilated. There were horses that
[00:17:42.559] were attacked. Um, there were a lot of
[00:17:44.720] animals that were hurt [clears throat]
[00:17:46.240] in those days, right?
[00:17:48.559] >> There were. Uh then there were also
[00:17:52.480] animals that were just uh
[00:17:55.200] >> disappeared,
[00:17:55.919] >> put into panic because of the balls of
[00:17:58.480] light. The the balls that were reduh as
[00:18:01.200] I recall um caused a mental disturbance
[00:18:04.559] in the animals uh horses or or cows and
[00:18:08.240] uh put them into a panic. Um and uh I
[00:18:13.679] think there was a report where the one
[00:18:16.799] of those was witnessed over someone's
[00:18:18.640] head. that it might have been Terry that
[00:18:20.000] witnessed it or maybe one of our people
[00:18:21.919] did and the person uh the human was
[00:18:24.080] unaware that the ball was over the head
[00:18:26.720] over his head. Um the uh Terry had an
[00:18:31.360] encounter with a teal colored a a ball
[00:18:34.960] turquoise colored ball that was
[00:18:36.720] transparent and inside was a kind of a
[00:18:42.640] liquidified energy form that was um
[00:18:46.960] causing bolts of of light flashing off
[00:18:50.640] inside the ball. There was a tremendous
[00:18:52.720] amount of energy in that, but it was
[00:18:55.120] communicating uh to his consciousness
[00:18:57.600] and it was telling him if you take
[00:18:59.440] another step further and this was he was
[00:19:01.600] about 12 ft away, you're going to die.
[00:19:04.880] And he was so convinced he backed off
[00:19:07.280] immediately. And we confirmed that with
[00:19:09.600] another um person on another ranch
[00:19:12.880] contiguous uh to the west of the uh of
[00:19:16.400] the skinwalker. And uh the same thing
[00:19:19.039] encountered when the the ball was
[00:19:20.960] climbing was going up up a a hill and
[00:19:24.240] the person was following it before they
[00:19:26.480] got to the top of the hill the ball
[00:19:28.080] stopped and convinced the person they
[00:19:30.160] were going to die if they kept following
[00:19:31.600] it. So that kind of interaction,
[00:19:35.600] consciousness interaction, besides the
[00:19:38.000] physicality of being able to have
[00:19:40.080] locomotion that can dance around
[00:19:42.400] branches of trees and not hit a single
[00:19:44.240] one through a whole group of of trees is
[00:19:48.080] very interesting.
[00:19:49.760] >> You know, the only thing consistent
[00:19:51.039] about the ranch is that it's always
[00:19:52.559] inconsistent. That whatever has happened
[00:19:54.720] before is it changes. you know, the the
[00:19:56.880] kinds of things that were happening
[00:19:58.400] during the NIDS era and during OAP,
[00:20:00.720] creatures, trickster stuff,
[00:20:03.600] >> um, mutilations of all kinds of animals.
[00:20:06.000] You had some of that, but it it's not
[00:20:07.919] the same. You don't you don't see a lot
[00:20:09.120] of creatures there anymore, do you?
[00:20:10.640] >> It's transient. I mean, we've had some
[00:20:13.840] some disturbing animal deaths. We've had
[00:20:17.919] some injuries that have been caught on
[00:20:20.320] camera uh sometimes in tandem with the
[00:20:23.440] experimental activities that are
[00:20:25.280] occurring on the ranch. Uh, you know,
[00:20:28.799] one of the the most prominent episodes
[00:20:31.760] that occurred on camera when we brought
[00:20:36.480] the television docue series effort onto
[00:20:38.960] the property was this this perfectly
[00:20:41.600] healthy calf that was found
[00:20:46.080] dead just south of Homestead One or the
[00:20:48.960] ranch house. And
[00:20:52.799] immediately as the as the men went to go
[00:20:55.440] investigate it on camera,
[00:20:59.679] not only were the trifield meters going
[00:21:02.480] crazy with elevated microwave, gamma
[00:21:05.840] radiation, you know, other other
[00:21:08.159] readings that were that were showing up
[00:21:10.400] that were really strange. But the
[00:21:12.960] smartphones were malfunctioning. Uh you
[00:21:16.640] had one individual Thomas Winterton who
[00:21:18.880] had a Samsung device and you had Caleb
[00:21:22.159] Bench who is you know one of our
[00:21:24.240] security professionals who is also
[00:21:25.840] active law enforcement. He he is um
[00:21:29.280] working with the sheriff's office at the
[00:21:31.600] same time as providing security services
[00:21:34.799] at the ranch. Both of these individuals
[00:21:38.480] had their phones simultaneously being
[00:21:41.200] manipulated before their very eyes in
[00:21:44.159] tandem with investigating this
[00:21:45.919] suspicious death of this perfectly
[00:21:49.919] healthy calf.
[00:21:51.919] And upon pulling up the surveillance
[00:21:53.840] footage of that area of the ranch to
[00:21:56.640] find out what happened, was there
[00:21:58.640] something that that killed it? Was there
[00:22:01.280] was there a perpetrator involved?
[00:22:03.919] Exactly what time did that animal go
[00:22:06.080] down? Interestingly, right around the
[00:22:08.559] time that the animal went down,
[00:22:13.280] there was captured a an object, a UFO
[00:22:18.080] right above the tree line
[00:22:21.760] simultaneous with that event. and and
[00:22:26.640] that caused us to take a step back and
[00:22:30.559] and view the events that were unfolding
[00:22:32.799] on the ranch
[00:22:34.799] quite differently. I mean, this was
[00:22:36.559] serious. and to see data, to see the
[00:22:40.400] equipment malfunction, the elevated
[00:22:42.480] readings that were coming off of the
[00:22:44.640] instruments, and also to see something
[00:22:48.159] unidentified that entered the space upon
[00:22:51.280] review of the surveillance footage. that
[00:22:54.799] that changed the game significantly and
[00:22:57.840] it caused us to double down on trying to
[00:23:00.640] understand the nature of what is
[00:23:02.080] happening because I think it it as much
[00:23:04.960] as it's unpredictable the one thing that
[00:23:07.200] we have been able to see emerge as far
[00:23:09.679] as patterns in the data are
[00:23:12.960] electromagnetic anomalies
[00:23:15.679] rapid battery depletion
[00:23:18.080] acute medical episodes
[00:23:20.960] corresponding many times with
[00:23:22.799] unidentified aerial phenomena.
[00:23:26.880] They say that correlation does not mean
[00:23:29.760] causation. You always have to keep that
[00:23:31.840] in mind. But when you have enough
[00:23:35.120] correlations
[00:23:36.880] and data points, it forms a pattern of
[00:23:40.559] behavior and activity that is
[00:23:43.360] undeniable.
[00:23:44.320] >> Has anybody able to reverse engineer how
[00:23:47.440] you would do the stuff that is done to
[00:23:49.679] equipment at the ranch? Like what what
[00:23:52.080] system drains batteries just uh out of
[00:23:54.799] nowhere? What what system knocks out
[00:23:56.480] cameras and affects phones? And how
[00:23:59.039] would you wouldn't it be handy to have a
[00:24:00.880] device that would do that all the time?
[00:24:02.320] But it's happened since the beginning,
[00:24:04.159] right?
[00:24:04.559] >> To manipulate closed systems.
[00:24:06.480] >> Yeah.
[00:24:07.760] >> Instantaneously. I mean, we're talking
[00:24:09.679] about completely dismantling or
[00:24:12.159] reprogramming cold closed systems on
[00:24:14.880] that property.
[00:24:16.720] Uh
[00:24:17.840] >> how do you shut down 10 out of 10
[00:24:19.600] missiles in a nuclear pod? Uh every each
[00:24:23.840] individual one is each each missile is
[00:24:26.720] individually wired and and programmed
[00:24:31.120] and all the programs are changed so that
[00:24:33.120] you can't launch
[00:24:35.120] or you get within one step of launching
[00:24:38.000] in the case of of the Russian ones. So
[00:24:41.039] how so you're asking you're asking a
[00:24:45.120] question that you know is is beyond this
[00:24:48.960] is it's as far beyond us as as uh trying
[00:24:53.039] to understand
[00:24:54.799] them the others and their machines and
[00:24:58.480] how they work. Um, Robert's identifying
[00:25:01.520] something very interesting and that is
[00:25:05.200] the fact that what has been reported on
[00:25:08.320] military installations
[00:25:10.720] that has national security implications
[00:25:13.520] has also been documented
[00:25:16.159] on Skinwalker Ranch in a private sector
[00:25:19.120] setting.
[00:25:20.799] I think that's interesting.
[00:25:23.679] you know, the um the previous owners,
[00:25:25.600] the Meyers who had the found the the
[00:25:27.279] property for a long time, uh they say
[00:25:30.000] nothing ever happened while they were
[00:25:31.200] there. Nothing. And they but as they
[00:25:33.360] passed the property along, as I recall
[00:25:35.120] from our book, they they put put sort of
[00:25:37.600] a a condition on the deed that you can't
[00:25:40.480] do any digging without letting us know
[00:25:42.480] in advance to the to the new owner.
[00:25:44.559] >> Um well, you're you're wrong, George.
[00:25:46.159] I'm going to cut you off.
[00:25:47.200] >> Okay. their heir, G. Meyers, who sold
[00:25:50.080] the property to the Shermans, claimed
[00:25:51.840] that there was no activity,
[00:25:53.279] >> right? Uh when confronted by Dr. Frank
[00:25:57.039] Salisbury and others that were following
[00:25:59.919] up on the investigation. Uh when it
[00:26:02.240] comes to Kenneth and Edith Meyers and
[00:26:04.559] the documentary history,
[00:26:07.279] uh we have retired law enforcement that
[00:26:10.159] has gone on record with the fact that
[00:26:13.760] Kenneth and Edith Meyers called on law
[00:26:16.240] enforcement on a regular basis to
[00:26:18.640] respond to activity,
[00:26:21.039] cattle mutilation activity, high
[00:26:23.840] stranges, and even UFO activity on
[00:26:26.240] Skinwalker Ranch going back decades
[00:26:29.200] prior to their death and it being passed
[00:26:33.919] from Gar Meyers to the Shermans. And you
[00:26:37.760] know, I have I have some documentation
[00:26:40.640] showing that in an exchange between
[00:26:48.720] between Gwen Sherman
[00:26:51.279] and G. Meyers shortly after their
[00:26:54.480] acquisition and them being terrorized
[00:26:59.279] when she confronted G and said, "Why
[00:27:01.360] didn't you tell us about this?"
[00:27:06.080] Gar Meyers
[00:27:09.200] apparently responded saying, "I thought
[00:27:12.000] it would leave you alone.
[00:27:15.120] I've seen this documented."
[00:27:18.000] So I was told by Terry and I don't and I
[00:27:20.640] think I we later confirmed it that there
[00:27:23.600] was no restrictive covenant on the land
[00:27:26.320] essentially and Terry didn't put it that
[00:27:28.000] way. Okay.
[00:27:28.640] >> Terry just said he had an agreement with
[00:27:32.080] Meyers that he would not do any
[00:27:34.159] excavation without Meyers being there.
[00:27:37.279] And uh there was a time when Terry
[00:27:39.279] wanted to put down lay down a pipe and
[00:27:42.559] Meyers came out to check it. Uh I think
[00:27:45.440] it was Meyers that did. somebody came
[00:27:47.600] out to verify where he was going and
[00:27:49.360] gave approval, but it wasn't a
[00:27:51.200] restrictive covenant that ran with the
[00:27:52.720] deed, ran with the land.
[00:27:54.080] >> Okay.
[00:27:55.039] >> It was more it was an advisory.
[00:27:57.440] >> I see.
[00:27:58.320] >> And and I was told
[00:28:01.679] that that that was that was a cautionary
[00:28:06.240] aspect associated with the history of
[00:28:07.840] the ranch. Didn't think anything of it
[00:28:10.799] until we started disturbing the earth.
[00:28:14.159] And when Thomas Winterton, my
[00:28:16.640] superintendent and ranch manager, who's
[00:28:19.279] been involved since April of 2016, since
[00:28:22.240] the month I purchased the property, when
[00:28:24.480] he started to
[00:28:27.679] do work to improve the ranch
[00:28:31.200] um and to to move to move the earth, to
[00:28:35.679] create to create roadways and to to make
[00:28:39.120] certain improvements,
[00:28:42.159] he ended up in the hospital and almost
[00:28:44.320] died. And he was warned he was warned
[00:28:47.279] telepathically to cease his activity or
[00:28:51.840] else. And he he ignored it and proceeded
[00:28:55.679] and ended up in the hospital almost lost
[00:28:58.880] his life. The doctors still to this day
[00:29:02.000] can't explain
[00:29:03.919] what exactly happened to him other than
[00:29:06.080] the back of his skull was irradiated
[00:29:09.279] and uh his scalp separated from his
[00:29:12.240] skull and uh and it was a really
[00:29:16.799] disturbing acute medical episode that
[00:29:20.320] now combined with a a library of other
[00:29:23.679] episodes that have occurred.
[00:29:26.000] I think we talked about this last night,
[00:29:29.360] Robert.
[00:29:30.960] It's escalated the activity on the ranch
[00:29:34.880] and the
[00:29:39.520] the danger, the harm associated with
[00:29:42.320] conducting
[00:29:43.840] aggressive experimental activity is
[00:29:48.159] it's uh sobering.
[00:29:49.600] >> And George, you were there last night as
[00:29:51.279] a witness to all of our conversation.
[00:29:56.080] There's a reason why I have everyone
[00:29:58.000] sign a liability waiver and acknowledge
[00:30:00.880] the risks associated with
[00:30:03.919] entering the property. And it's not just
[00:30:07.200] theatrical. It's not just for drama.
[00:30:09.200] It's it's it's dead serious.
[00:30:12.080] >> Absolutely.
[00:30:13.120] >> There were risks to your employees
[00:30:15.200] eventually. They we're going to jump
[00:30:17.279] into hitchhikers, I guess, but the the
[00:30:19.200] idea of attachments, it's been
[00:30:20.559] associated with ghost research for a
[00:30:22.799] long time. poltergeist kind of thing.
[00:30:24.880] >> I I doubt that that was on your on your
[00:30:27.279] mind when you when you bought the ranch,
[00:30:29.679] but it started happening, right? I don't
[00:30:31.440] know at what point it started happening,
[00:30:33.039] but there's some very dramatic things to
[00:30:35.679] your staff. And we can come back to some
[00:30:37.440] of what's happened while your
[00:30:38.799] stewardship is underway that that had to
[00:30:41.440] affect whether you wanted to hang on to
[00:30:43.039] it or not, I would think.
[00:30:45.919] Well, we had uh I mentioned in one of
[00:30:48.559] the uh discussions, our episodes that we
[00:30:51.200] had events happen to two of our security
[00:30:53.760] people um and [clears throat]
[00:30:57.120] uh two of those events were in Las Vegas
[00:31:00.799] and uh because of the hitchhiker effect
[00:31:03.440] and one was on the ranch. Um,
[00:31:08.081] [clears throat] we did get into
[00:31:11.200] the levels of harmful interaction that
[00:31:17.200] Brandon Ed al have suffered. You know,
[00:31:21.039] we didn't get into that kind of level.
[00:31:23.520] Um,
[00:31:25.200] I even
[00:31:28.159] I was con uh with that prohibition or
[00:31:30.559] that agreement with Terry and and Myers
[00:31:32.320] about not digging on the ranch. My
[00:31:34.640] thoughts went to more nefarious kinds of
[00:31:36.880] things to do with humans as to why
[00:31:42.000] are you so fussy about digging anywhere?
[00:31:47.679] Are there is there graves that we don't
[00:31:50.559] know about? and graves of who?
[00:31:54.399] We didn't know of any Indian burial
[00:31:55.919] grounds there at all. So, is is it
[00:32:00.480] something that the white man has done?
[00:32:02.799] Who is possibly buried there? Um, so my
[00:32:06.799] my thoughts didn't go to ET. It first
[00:32:09.440] went to human beings as to nefarious
[00:32:12.080] activities that they may have been
[00:32:14.240] involved in. And I was very curious
[00:32:17.120] about that. uh that Terry would receive
[00:32:20.159] a prohibition of digging anywhere
[00:32:22.640] without personally somebody being there
[00:32:24.559] to watch.
[00:32:25.519] >> Like maybe there's murder victims buried
[00:32:27.840] there or aborted fetuses or some kind of
[00:32:30.480] waste material, some horrible waste
[00:32:32.399] material.
[00:32:32.799] >> You got it. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:32:34.559] >> Did you do experiments that uh in
[00:32:36.720] digging in the ground to purposely stir
[00:32:38.480] something up and see what happens?
[00:32:39.840] >> I briefly did um and then I stopped
[00:32:43.120] because I I just didn't feel right about
[00:32:44.799] it. I br I took a caterpillar I had from
[00:32:47.679] another ranch and we trucked it down
[00:32:50.000] there. Um and we did [clears throat]
[00:32:53.039] some excavation with that and then we
[00:32:56.080] didn't find anything. We only went down
[00:32:57.440] maybe four feet in an area and then we
[00:33:00.399] filled it all back filled it all in and
[00:33:03.120] uh didn't find anything and I thought
[00:33:05.360] well you know a a 480 acre ranch is what
[00:33:09.600] we were told it was. uh I don't know
[00:33:12.320] 500T 5T I don't know what the hell the
[00:33:14.399] size is
[00:33:16.080] 12
[00:33:16.799] >> and part of that is because we we
[00:33:19.600] control the road
[00:33:21.679] >> the private road that leads into the
[00:33:23.679] ranch is actually owned by adamantium
[00:33:27.200] real estate by the entity and one of the
[00:33:29.919] things that we did right off the bat
[00:33:32.240] within the few first few months of my
[00:33:34.399] stewardship was um was to formalize
[00:33:41.360] the the the boundary lines of the
[00:33:44.640] property and to be able to fully secure.
[00:33:47.200] Now, that effort escalated significantly
[00:33:50.559] after I had my close encounter
[00:33:53.039] experience.
[00:33:55.200] After October 14th of 2016,
[00:34:00.159] we proceeded aggressively to address how
[00:34:04.159] to install the right security measures.
[00:34:07.200] A full militaryra gated entrance, a
[00:34:10.240] guard shack,
[00:34:12.240] um you know, a gate a gate house there
[00:34:14.480] at the entrance to check people in as a
[00:34:16.480] as a formal checkpoint. and then started
[00:34:18.399] adding surveillance assets encompassing
[00:34:21.200] the entire ranch to be able to document
[00:34:23.520] the nature of the activity and also be
[00:34:26.879] able to keep people out
[00:34:29.520] out of harm's way and also keep people
[00:34:33.119] from potentially compromising the
[00:34:35.520] sensitivity of a very real scientific
[00:34:38.560] investigation. It was ongoing. That's
[00:34:40.879] that's one thing that uh has been a an
[00:34:44.480] ongoing surprise is how much visitor
[00:34:48.079] activity
[00:34:50.560] impacts the level of interaction
[00:34:54.720] with the phenomena. Certain visitors
[00:34:58.000] depending on what they bring as far as
[00:35:00.320] intent to the property will trigger
[00:35:03.520] uh sometimes to
[00:35:05.920] to very negative results. There was a
[00:35:09.040] temptation I had one time to uh to go
[00:35:13.839] ahead and dig more. Um but when you're
[00:35:16.960] dealing with that size of a piece of
[00:35:18.960] ground, 500 plus acres,
[00:35:22.800] um where where do you start? Where are
[00:35:26.160] you going to end? Yeah. Because that's
[00:35:27.680] huge, right? So the odds are you're just
[00:35:30.880] not going to
[00:35:31.839] >> point to some area and dig and come up
[00:35:33.680] with things.
[00:35:34.320] >> Did you ever have a reaction to digging
[00:35:36.000] in the ground
[00:35:37.280] >> on purpose? I mean,
[00:35:39.040] >> no, I didn't. And it was so brief. And
[00:35:40.960] what we did was I think we did it in one
[00:35:42.720] day. And we just excavated, used the
[00:35:45.280] cap, uh, dug up quite an area that maybe
[00:35:48.720] was, you know, um, a quarter or of the
[00:35:53.359] size of a football field. And then back
[00:35:56.640] uh, you know, we we put all the material
[00:35:59.520] back and into the, uh, into the ground
[00:36:02.000] and drove over it and compacted it. Um,
[00:36:05.200] but [clears throat] I had hired
[00:36:07.760] a worldclass um, remote viewer named
[00:36:11.200] Joel McMongle on two occasions to remote
[00:36:14.240] view the ranch. And his results were
[00:36:17.440] tempting for me to do certain things to
[00:36:20.960] explore, but I didn't I never did them.
[00:36:22.880] >> He identified places where that hey, you
[00:36:25.040] should look here or something bad.
[00:36:26.720] >> He it was a blinded study. Uh, I knew
[00:36:29.200] about it, so it wasn't double blind, but
[00:36:30.640] he was blinded. So, he had a longitude
[00:36:33.359] latitude uh instructions in a sealed
[00:36:36.160] envelope that he couldn't open, but the
[00:36:38.079] sealed envelope was on the desk and uh
[00:36:41.119] that's all he had to go on. And he drew
[00:36:43.760] and described he nailed the ranch both
[00:36:46.560] times. I did it did it twice to
[00:36:48.560] reinforce the potential accuracy.
[00:36:52.240] And what was really interesting was
[00:36:54.800] after he did it all and [clears throat]
[00:36:56.640] I said, uh, you know, what else, uh, are
[00:37:00.240] you feeling
[00:37:02.240] because remote viewing isn't just about
[00:37:04.000] geography. Um, what else do you sense?
[00:37:07.920] And he says, there's a lot of activity
[00:37:10.000] going on underground. A lot of it. I see
[00:37:13.280] things in motions, machinery, u beings
[00:37:16.720] of some kind. Don't know exactly, but
[00:37:19.200] there's a lot going on. And this was in
[00:37:21.520] the meadow area, not under the mesa, the
[00:37:24.800] the ridge line, the mesa. Um, but it was
[00:37:28.400] in the meadow areas, you know. And so
[00:37:31.260] [clears throat]
[00:37:32.320] I briefly thought for maybe 10 minutes
[00:37:34.880] on should I go do that? And I decided
[00:37:36.720] no, I'm not going to I'm not going to
[00:37:38.400] really go and and and
[00:37:40.880] disturb that. Whatever it is, I'm going
[00:37:42.960] to leave it alone.
[00:37:44.079] >> This rings true for you and your team,
[00:37:45.920] right? Uh things underground. I mean,
[00:37:47.680] you've been doing some digging. you've
[00:37:49.119] had some reactions to even little drill
[00:37:52.320] bits and things like that and and some
[00:37:54.320] kind of a response from whatever it is
[00:37:55.920] that's there.
[00:37:57.200] >> Yeah. Well, not only do we see the the
[00:38:01.040] persistent signal that appears the 1.6
[00:38:04.320] gigahertz signal that seems to appear
[00:38:06.880] within the space when we are conducting
[00:38:10.160] some of these activities.
[00:38:12.480] Uh but as we have probed the mesa
[00:38:16.240] and conducted what I what I kind of
[00:38:19.119] characterize as more of a medical biopsy
[00:38:22.400] of the ranch and that area. We've seen
[00:38:25.920] some disturbing things play out. I mean,
[00:38:27.920] we had our caretaker ended up having a
[00:38:31.599] cardiac episode
[00:38:34.560] simultaneous with drilling activity and
[00:38:38.079] the signal appearing and had to be
[00:38:40.800] rushed off the property. We had to cease
[00:38:43.119] the activity. He was immediately
[00:38:45.920] evacuated by Dragon by security and
[00:38:49.839] taken to the hospital. and his the
[00:38:53.520] attending physicians were very
[00:38:56.560] concerned. They asked what what caused
[00:38:59.280] this? What were you doing? And he he was
[00:39:01.520] out at the homesteads.
[00:39:03.680] So, he was in a different part of the
[00:39:06.240] property. He wasn't right there with the
[00:39:08.079] drilling activity. He was actually part
[00:39:10.800] of a separate group that was monitoring
[00:39:13.359] whether something would change in the
[00:39:15.520] environment on the other side of the
[00:39:16.880] ranch. Well, not only did something
[00:39:19.040] change, but
[00:39:22.320] we had an acute medical episode that
[00:39:24.560] still
[00:39:26.240] leaves us baffled. Your caretaker was
[00:39:29.119] had a severe injuries as well. I mean,
[00:39:31.520] almost took his life because of an
[00:39:33.760] accident involving a horse, but you
[00:39:35.359] can't you can't really pin it for sure
[00:39:37.359] on something.
[00:39:39.760] >> So, Jean
[00:39:41.200] >> Jean De [clears throat] was really our
[00:39:42.400] manager. Richard was kind of along for
[00:39:43.920] the ride. He was her husband. nice nice
[00:39:46.560] guy, kind of kind of a uh gnarly kind of
[00:39:50.000] guy, you know, and and uh but he was a
[00:39:52.880] good horseman and he was had been out
[00:39:55.359] riding and Jean noticed the horse came
[00:39:58.240] back to the corral without him on it by
[00:40:00.720] itself, you know. So, she drove out on
[00:40:03.680] the road and found his body, found him
[00:40:05.760] there laying down and
[00:40:09.200] he was uh he wasn't dead. He he had been
[00:40:13.440] seriously injured and um his eyes Jean
[00:40:18.320] told me she she said his eyes were
[00:40:20.640] changing color as she's talking to him
[00:40:23.359] and he was mumbling something about
[00:40:26.160] others or other whatever it was that he
[00:40:29.760] had encountered and and and so she
[00:40:34.007] [clears throat] concluded that the horse
[00:40:35.440] had really panicked and had drugg him
[00:40:39.359] some kind of distance because his foot
[00:40:42.720] was still in the stirrup or had been in
[00:40:45.040] the stirrup I guess of the of the horse
[00:40:48.160] of the saddle and um seriously damaged
[00:40:51.839] his leg and there may be other physical
[00:40:56.319] kinds of injuries he suffered. I'm not
[00:40:58.560] privy to exactly what they were or much
[00:41:01.839] less the cause of them but um that's
[00:41:05.520] essentially the essence of what he uh
[00:41:08.079] and then he was went into a coma. He was
[00:41:10.079] taken to a hospital, I think, in Salt
[00:41:11.680] Lake. He went into a coma for about four
[00:41:14.720] weeks, a number of weeks, and the
[00:41:16.960] doctors were asking her if she would
[00:41:20.000] approve them taking him off of life
[00:41:22.160] support. And she called me. She said,
[00:41:24.880] "What should I do?" I said, "What do you
[00:41:28.880] have to lose by giving it giving it some
[00:41:31.119] more time? Giving him another five or
[00:41:33.440] five days or a week. Three days later,
[00:41:35.839] he comes out of it and and he was
[00:41:39.839] mentally just fine. He walked with a
[00:41:42.880] with a serious limp because he had had
[00:41:45.440] such an injury to his leg. So, he always
[00:41:47.200] had a cane with him. And um and then um
[00:41:52.640] she she was the manager though, but
[00:41:54.480] that's the story about about Richard in
[00:41:56.880] the encounter. You know, I remember
[00:41:58.400] meeting Richard the first time on the
[00:42:00.000] ranch and we're sitting around under a
[00:42:01.680] tree and talking and uh he said
[00:42:03.520] something that that struck me and one of
[00:42:06.000] the first visits, not my first one, but
[00:42:07.680] he said, you know, I feel really good
[00:42:09.119] here. He says, I can work from morning
[00:42:10.800] to into the night. He was old, you know,
[00:42:12.720] he was well, I'm saying old now compare
[00:42:15.200] compared to me then, but uh you know, he
[00:42:17.359] he dug it. He he he felt uh electrified
[00:42:20.640] by the ranch.
[00:42:21.680] >> Whenever I was at that ranch, I slept
[00:42:23.760] like a log. I had no interferences
[00:42:26.400] whatsoever. I felt really, really good
[00:42:29.680] and I never had a problem at all. And we
[00:42:32.319] had government people there. One night
[00:42:34.400] we're Colum and I were with this lady
[00:42:36.400] Jessica. I think we talked about her in
[00:42:38.480] one of the interviews.
[00:42:39.839] >> Uh CIA gal and uh boy was she alive and
[00:42:44.880] worried one night when we were out
[00:42:46.560] walking around. She was really super
[00:42:49.760] agitated.
[00:42:51.359] I'm I'm just enjoying the evening. I
[00:42:53.599] think this is really great. And and then
[00:42:56.000] that's the time that Colum he was there
[00:42:58.079] were three of us and he saw that animal
[00:43:02.000] uh very dino beaver.
[00:43:03.680] >> Yeah. Very unusual animal walking by and
[00:43:06.960] uh but uh other people had all kinds of
[00:43:10.000] different reactions. I I really slept
[00:43:12.160] great. I was energized. I thought,
[00:43:14.240] >> "Boy, this is a great place." It
[00:43:16.400] >> seems like whatever is there responds to
[00:43:18.319] what you bring to the party. Uh, you
[00:43:20.560] know, I I'm always trying to be
[00:43:22.079] respectful, get my head in the right
[00:43:23.760] place when I go there. And, uh, I'm just
[00:43:26.079] here to learn. Um, and I have noticed,
[00:43:29.119] it seems to be a trend that over the
[00:43:30.720] years, the badasses are the ones that
[00:43:32.480] have the most problems. People who are
[00:43:34.240] tough guys, they're strapping with guns,
[00:43:36.560] they're intelligence people, ex-military
[00:43:39.040] cops. Um, I don't know. You you find
[00:43:42.240] anything to that?
[00:43:44.319] >> Yeah. A lot of whatever is at play at
[00:43:48.560] Skinwalker Ranch has the ability to
[00:43:52.240] immediately
[00:43:54.319] scan someone's consciousness and
[00:43:57.200] immediately discern their intent, even
[00:44:00.000] read their mind. And and that's why we
[00:44:03.440] caution everyone before entering that
[00:44:06.319] they need to prepare themselves
[00:44:07.920] spiritually. They need to enter with a
[00:44:09.760] spirit of humility and reverence because
[00:44:12.720] whatever we're dealing with is two steps
[00:44:16.400] ahead of us and can already
[00:44:19.680] uh sense and and understand your intent
[00:44:22.720] and react to it negatively if there is
[00:44:25.680] an adversarial
[00:44:28.000] spirit or intention. Um, my people just
[00:44:31.520] I I've never had a negative experience
[00:44:34.960] when I've slept on the ranch, but we've
[00:44:37.200] had countless
[00:44:39.040] others that have refused to ever come
[00:44:42.560] back to the ranch.
[00:44:44.480] >> It's it's unpredictable. You have some
[00:44:46.480] people that have the most terrifying
[00:44:49.040] nightmares
[00:44:50.960] when sleeping on the ranch and don't
[00:44:54.400] ever want to come back. And then you
[00:44:56.560] have others. I mean, I as I recall, I
[00:45:00.880] mean, that my my first months of owning
[00:45:03.280] the property, I couldn't get over how
[00:45:07.359] peaceful and beautiful the property was
[00:45:11.040] every time I visited. And I thought,
[00:45:12.960] gosh, it's only a matter of time before
[00:45:15.599] we we verify that there really isn't
[00:45:18.480] anything unusual happening here. and
[00:45:21.040] that anything unusual can be actually
[00:45:23.680] attributed to some natural cause either
[00:45:26.560] something within the geology or you know
[00:45:29.680] maybe it's the product of group think
[00:45:31.359] and
[00:45:31.920] >> there was a small river running through
[00:45:33.440] it
[00:45:34.160] >> yeah dry gulch creek that dry gulch
[00:45:36.640] creek that cuts through the property it
[00:45:38.800] is a it is a pretty prominent feature
[00:45:42.960] >> and that's something that we actually
[00:45:46.000] investigated the last few years for the
[00:45:49.119] first time we actually took instrument
[00:45:50.400] instrumentation down there to probe the
[00:45:53.599] area, especially because of some of the
[00:45:55.680] his the history with, you know, the
[00:45:57.839] Sherman's dogs retreating down that way.
[00:46:01.200] We had the the reports of large wolflike
[00:46:04.160] creatures that would actually
[00:46:07.200] exit, you know, the area of the
[00:46:09.359] homesteads and go down toward the creek
[00:46:11.920] and were never seen again. And of course
[00:46:16.160] you you know what happened when we went
[00:46:18.079] down to explore Dry Gulch Creek.
[00:46:21.280] >> You found one.
[00:46:22.400] >> We found the carcass, the decomposing
[00:46:25.440] carcass of an unusually large
[00:46:30.560] wolflike creature. And the teeth in
[00:46:34.720] particular, the jawbone, the teeth were
[00:46:36.960] very very unusual. And we we took
[00:46:39.920] samples even though the guys were
[00:46:41.440] gagging. I mean, it was it was covered
[00:46:45.119] with maggots and decomposing there in
[00:46:47.359] the water right on the edge of the
[00:46:48.960] creek. Thank goodness. I mean, they they
[00:46:51.680] had the presence of mind to to take a
[00:46:54.000] sample, to cut off a piece of its jaw
[00:46:56.960] and to be able to bag it, you know, they
[00:46:59.200] had ziplockc bags with them and and put
[00:47:02.240] it in in a protective bag to uh to have
[00:47:06.000] it analyzed. And when we had our
[00:47:07.680] biologist Ben Woodruff analyze it, he
[00:47:11.040] was shocked to find out that the direct
[00:47:14.160] match, I mean, we're talking direct
[00:47:17.119] match to this jawbone
[00:47:21.040] was a an over 10,000year-old extinct
[00:47:24.160] direwolf.
[00:47:26.240] And
[00:47:27.839] he was stunned. We were stunned. But
[00:47:31.520] what it did, George, is it it it it
[00:47:34.319] actually added absolute validity
[00:47:38.400] to what many people believe to be
[00:47:42.240] um
[00:47:43.839] fantastical accounts of large wolflike
[00:47:46.240] creatures that were impervious to
[00:47:47.839] gunshots. you know, the the the history
[00:47:51.599] that you documented with the Shermans, a
[00:47:54.800] lot of people understandably have
[00:47:56.480] dismissed
[00:47:58.079] and they they felt like it was not not
[00:48:01.119] only not credible, but that it just
[00:48:03.680] sounded like just tall tales. Well, to
[00:48:07.680] actually recover
[00:48:09.760] biology on that property that points
[00:48:12.400] toward
[00:48:15.200] it being true is is one of the I mean,
[00:48:18.240] one of the many,
[00:48:20.240] I think, validating
[00:48:23.040] and gratifying parts of our
[00:48:24.640] investigation.
[00:48:26.000] >> What did you think when you heard that?
[00:48:27.920] Did did you hear about the our our
[00:48:30.720] recovery of that?
[00:48:32.400] >> Yeah, it was a shame you couldn't get
[00:48:33.680] all of the teeth and make it a necklace.
[00:48:35.438] [laughter]
[00:48:36.240] So,
[00:48:36.720] >> I don't know that anyone would dare wear
[00:48:38.480] that necklace.
[00:48:39.440] >> Oh, some somebody would for sure. I'm
[00:48:42.800] just kidding. I'm just kidding.
[00:48:44.240] >> Well, let's talk about what it is that's
[00:48:45.839] there or they that's there. I remember
[00:48:48.400] my very first visit. Junior Hicks is
[00:48:50.720] there. He'd been chronicling strange
[00:48:53.280] activity in the basin for decades by
[00:48:55.920] that point.
[00:48:56.480] >> Since 1950.
[00:48:57.520] >> Yeah. And I'm I'm looking up at the
[00:48:59.119] ridge, the ma the mesa there, and I
[00:49:01.359] said, "Boy, that's really beautiful."
[00:49:02.720] And Junior Hick says, "Yeah, that's the
[00:49:04.079] path of the skinwalker." And I go,
[00:49:05.760] "What? Uh, skinwalker? What?" I had
[00:49:08.319] never heard the name before. It became
[00:49:10.480] the title for a series of articles that
[00:49:12.559] I wrote in 2002. And then Colum and I
[00:49:15.119] used it in the in the book. And then,
[00:49:17.119] you know, it's your term now. But, um,
[00:49:19.520] I'd never heard of it. And I couldn't
[00:49:21.200] find any Native Americans when we're
[00:49:23.119] trying to write about it who would
[00:49:24.960] willing to talk about it. But the the
[00:49:26.880] story about the curse that that that was
[00:49:29.040] put on the utes by the Navajo that's was
[00:49:31.760] shared with me by by Junior. And you
[00:49:34.960] know, I'm sure that us sharing that
[00:49:36.800] story, it seemed quaint to people who oh
[00:49:38.880] gush superstitious native lore, but that
[00:49:42.079] was kind of their umbrella term for a
[00:49:44.240] lot of weird stuff that they had seen on
[00:49:46.319] or around that property.
[00:49:47.599] >> Well, we've had Native Americans
[00:49:49.119] corroborate that as well. So, as we've
[00:49:51.119] gone out to the community to
[00:49:54.480] verify the truth of these accounts and
[00:49:58.640] the history that you reported on that
[00:50:00.720] have been passed past pass to you, it's
[00:50:03.839] it it has been uh surprising
[00:50:08.079] to have so many witnesses and so many
[00:50:11.359] people corroborating that that history.
[00:50:16.160] You look at the history and it's uh so
[00:50:18.400] so many of the things that well we call
[00:50:19.920] them the Gormans but which the the ranch
[00:50:22.079] family had reported to you and and
[00:50:24.000] reported to column and the team. It was
[00:50:27.280] almost humorous mischievous you know
[00:50:29.440] things moving around you know the the
[00:50:31.440] Gwen taking a a shower and her towel and
[00:50:34.480] brush being gone and finding equipment
[00:50:37.040] in the refriger refrigerator or a pile
[00:50:39.119] of wood being moved. It's almost like,
[00:50:41.200] you know, playful and trying to get your
[00:50:43.040] attention and and almost a form of
[00:50:45.920] communication. But then you had other
[00:50:47.440] stuff, creatures that show up that don't
[00:50:49.760] exist. The muscular hyena that attacked
[00:50:52.880] their horse, the dino beaver that that
[00:50:55.440] column and and others saw. Uh, you know,
[00:50:58.640] animals that don't exist. Bigfoot type
[00:51:00.559] creatures, things in the house and dark
[00:51:03.520] entities that scares the heck out of
[00:51:05.760] anybody who's there. I mean at times
[00:51:08.559] playful, at times harmful and a lot of
[00:51:11.760] times very mysterious. So going in to it
[00:51:15.520] and then now Robert after all these
[00:51:17.520] years is it an it? Is it a they? Is it a
[00:51:22.640] dimensional crossroads where things
[00:51:24.800] bleed in from other realities? Is it all
[00:51:27.599] the same thing just taking different
[00:51:29.119] forms? What do you think?
[00:51:30.000] >> It's all the above. But you're not
[00:51:32.240] you're not when [clears throat] you're
[00:51:34.000] engaging in in an elementary type of uh
[00:51:36.800] communication like setting up games or
[00:51:39.440] being or they're setting up things that
[00:51:41.920] are that are being acted upon or they're
[00:51:43.680] playing games. Um you haven't
[00:51:46.880] established any any rule parameters yet.
[00:51:50.079] So, if you were under to undertake
[00:51:52.160] serious communication
[00:51:54.720] that we talked about last night,
[00:51:57.839] um you would set up a variety of
[00:52:00.160] different kinds of parameters and and
[00:52:02.960] probably
[00:52:04.480] some of that parameter
[00:52:07.005] >> [clears throat]
[00:52:07.040] >> um would include
[00:52:09.119] who you want coming through. If you are
[00:52:12.079] opening up uh the door to the other to
[00:52:17.920] another side of consciousness
[00:52:21.280] more sophisticated than than our
[00:52:23.200] dimension,
[00:52:24.880] you need to establish
[00:52:27.920] um [clears throat]
[00:52:28.800] an effort. You need to make an effort as
[00:52:31.599] to with whom do you want to communicate.
[00:52:35.680] That's what I would do. I would set that
[00:52:37.920] up. I would try to I and and try to have
[00:52:42.000] the right attitude about it entirely.
[00:52:45.200] Sincerity really really means a lot. Uh
[00:52:48.240] if you think you're going to if if if
[00:52:50.720] it's all telepathic,
[00:52:53.599] you don't know anything about the
[00:52:55.599] subject's ability to detect fraud
[00:52:59.119] and your behavior. If you're not
[00:53:01.520] sincere,
[00:53:03.280] you're you're you're you're going to be
[00:53:04.800] stopped. So I would I would sincerely
[00:53:07.266] [clears throat]
[00:53:07.839] do what I could to invent ways to try to
[00:53:13.280] communicate with whom I I wanted to
[00:53:15.839] communicate
[00:53:17.599] um that was a peaceful entity a
[00:53:21.040] spiritual even entity um not a
[00:53:24.800] malevolent one and because they're there
[00:53:28.880] um not so different than human beings in
[00:53:31.200] a sense right but the emotional kind of
[00:53:33.839] of characteristics
[00:53:35.839] But so I would I would gravitate
[00:53:38.240] everything I could toward that kind of
[00:53:40.880] entity that I wanted to have a respon
[00:53:44.000] responsible dialogue with.
[00:53:46.640] >> Um sort of the same question uh for you
[00:53:48.800] Brandon. You've been there a long time
[00:53:50.160] now and um you know so many different
[00:53:52.800] kinds of manifestations. Have I guess
[00:53:54.800] you can't if the investigation's ongoing
[00:53:56.800] you don't want to lock yourself into one
[00:53:58.640] position. You have flying saucers there.
[00:54:01.839] You think we equate that with ETSs,
[00:54:04.319] right?
[00:54:04.640] >> But you have other kinds of phenomena
[00:54:06.160] that have nothing to do with what we
[00:54:08.640] think we know about aliens. So,
[00:54:10.400] >> it's nonhuman intelligence. I think the
[00:54:12.480] safest way to characterize what we're
[00:54:15.280] interacting with in my view is is that
[00:54:17.760] it's non-human intelligence. It's it's
[00:54:20.000] far advanced.
[00:54:21.839] Um it's it has capabilities that no one
[00:54:25.680] can explain based on our current
[00:54:28.160] understanding of physics or technology
[00:54:30.720] platforms. And there's a diversity of
[00:54:35.119] phenomena that exists. It's not just
[00:54:39.200] unidentified aerial phenomena or crypted
[00:54:43.680] creatures that that are not easily
[00:54:46.480] identified. You have shadow figures. You
[00:54:49.599] have spectral images that have appeared
[00:54:53.119] to a number of people. Um, and during my
[00:54:56.319] stewardship, you were there with uh the
[00:54:59.920] international superstar
[00:55:02.160] Williams. And when when George came out
[00:55:04.720] with Robbie Williams
[00:55:07.040] >> uh to document
[00:55:09.760] what was happening with the ranch under
[00:55:11.520] my stewardship at that time, I I had no
[00:55:14.720] no desire to ever reveal my identity as
[00:55:17.200] the owner. and I I forced them to to
[00:55:20.559] mask my voice and to to mask my
[00:55:23.119] identity. But during that fateful visit,
[00:55:27.440] uh,
[00:55:29.200] a number of things happened and most
[00:55:31.680] notably at the end of that visit, as
[00:55:34.079] everyone was retiring for the night,
[00:55:38.079] Mr. Williams, security,
[00:55:41.359] private security professional,
[00:55:44.400] was watching everyone kind of get ready
[00:55:46.800] for bed and go back down the back
[00:55:48.720] hallway in the trailer in the command
[00:55:51.920] center and saw a spectral an image, a
[00:55:56.720] figure, a dark figure come through the
[00:55:59.440] wall and follow
[00:56:03.040] back into the hallway right before his
[00:56:06.880] eyes. And this is, you remember that
[00:56:08.880] security professional
[00:56:12.319] >> expressed his skepticism
[00:56:14.960] >> coming into it
[00:56:15.760] >> when they came in. When he arrived, he
[00:56:17.440] he he told me, "I I don't believe in any
[00:56:21.119] of this paranormal stuff, but I'm I'm
[00:56:23.280] here simply to protect
[00:56:26.400] >> Robbie Williams." Well, and you can
[00:56:29.839] corroborate this. When he saw that
[00:56:32.079] spectral image appear and follow down
[00:56:35.119] the back hallway, he gave you guys
[00:56:37.920] >> Yeah.
[00:56:38.799] >> He gave you guys 5 minutes to pack up
[00:56:41.760] your things and to head to the airport
[00:56:44.799] and and to make an exit. That's
[00:56:48.319] compelling. When you have a private
[00:56:50.720] security professional that is tasked
[00:56:53.040] with the health and safety of a
[00:56:54.880] high-profile global celebrity
[00:56:59.280] who expressed skepticism
[00:57:02.559] upon first entering the property that
[00:57:05.040] that ends up evacuating
[00:57:08.319] everyone because of his own witness of
[00:57:13.040] phenomena that he can't explain. I mean
[00:57:14.799] that that was pretty compelling. [music]
[00:57:18.799] Thank you for listening to the Bigalow
[00:57:20.480] podcast. Part two of our discussion with
[00:57:22.720] Brandon Fugal will be available Tuesday,
[00:57:25.280] September 1st. If you have any
[00:57:27.599] interesting questions you'd like to see
[00:57:29.119] us address, please send us a letter
[00:57:31.234] [music] to 1899 Westbrooks Avenue, Las
[00:57:35.520] Vegas, Nevada 89032
[00:57:40.079] Care of Bigalow podcast. Thanks.
[00:57:48.265] >> [music]
[00:57:54.160] >> Hey,
[00:57:56.125] [music]