sheehan podcast yt irNARPZW8cc

[00:00:00.320] So who is it then that's really behind
[00:00:03.280] this current push for disclosure?
[00:00:05.120] >> There has arisen uh an insurgency group
[00:00:08.639] that have uh occupied extremely high
[00:00:11.759] positions uh in the defense department
[00:00:14.799] uh inside the central intelligence
[00:00:16.480] agency uh inside some of the private
[00:00:18.640] aerospace corporations. There's 24 of
[00:00:21.199] them. Wow.
[00:00:21.920] >> Okay. And I happen to know who they are.
[00:00:24.160] And what they've done is they've formed
[00:00:25.600] an association.
[00:00:26.880] >> Is that the first time you said that?
[00:00:28.400] >> Yes.
[00:00:28.720] >> Oh wow. Okay, this is breaking news. He
[00:00:31.359] had had a private conversation with with
[00:00:33.760] President George HW Bush. Yes. And
[00:00:36.079] George HW Bush had confirmed to him that
[00:00:39.440] in April of 1964 that three UFOs had
[00:00:44.480] approached the tarmac at the Hollowman
[00:00:47.200] Air Force Base in New Mexico and the
[00:00:50.000] center one descended and landed on the
[00:00:52.160] tarmac uh and a humanoid nonhuman being
[00:00:57.520] came out of the craft. more importantly
[00:01:01.199] uh the method by which they actually
[00:01:04.799] transport from their star system to ours
[00:01:07.760] is through a form of remote projection
[00:01:11.119] you know like Ingo Swan for example in
[00:01:13.119] in penetration talks about uh projecting
[00:01:16.560] conceptually himself up onto the surface
[00:01:18.560] of the moon.
[00:01:19.119] >> Yeah. Like billocating
[00:01:20.240] >> and then billocating up there and and
[00:01:22.400] there's some sort of a plasma type of
[00:01:25.119] phenomenon that occurs. This is the
[00:01:27.200] means by which they actually transport.
[00:01:29.680] Uh that it's not just super fast. They
[00:01:32.400] are able to direct their consciousness.
[00:01:35.280] They've got some kind of what they call
[00:01:36.960] psionic assist that can collapse the
[00:01:39.840] wave function. They can focus on a
[00:01:42.000] particular location and they can ramp up
[00:01:44.720] the the phenomenon to the extent of
[00:01:46.720] transporting the ship. Bang bang like
[00:01:48.640] that.
[00:01:51.759] What if the most massive story in human
[00:01:54.479] history isn't simply being hidden from
[00:01:56.880] you, but managed? And if that is the
[00:02:00.320] case, which it seems like it very well
[00:02:02.240] could be, the next question is who or
[00:02:05.840] what is managing it? Danny Shehan is
[00:02:08.879] someone who's been at the center of not
[00:02:10.239] just that and related questions for
[00:02:12.239] decades, but some of the most
[00:02:13.840] consequential and controversial legal
[00:02:16.640] efforts in the last 50 years. Before we
[00:02:19.520] proceed, I do want to give you a heads
[00:02:21.200] up. [music] This mindmeld does not
[00:02:23.599] exactly hold your hand. Uh Danny just
[00:02:26.879] kind of locks in immediately. He
[00:02:29.840] summarizes a lot of the broadstrokes of
[00:02:32.400] the disclosure conversation quickly and
[00:02:34.800] thoroughly and he really just lays it
[00:02:36.879] out there in terms of what he sees as
[00:02:39.200] the current state of the topic. And I
[00:02:41.680] really just give him a lot of latitude,
[00:02:43.760] a lot of space to riff in this one as
[00:02:46.560] you're going to see. And I do have to
[00:02:48.400] dangle something of the tease for uh
[00:02:51.040] later on in this mindmelt because we do
[00:02:53.200] hit some pretty novel territory. Danny
[00:02:56.480] shares something he says he's never said
[00:02:58.560] publicly before and it raises serious
[00:03:00.800] questions about who could be behind this
[00:03:03.519] new push for disclosure. We also riff on
[00:03:06.159] a number of other pieces of lore that
[00:03:08.560] just absolutely sent me having to do
[00:03:11.680] with some of my favorite nuggets.
[00:03:14.720] consciousness, remote viewing, and the
[00:03:17.280] true identity of the phenomenon. And
[00:03:19.680] with that, if you don't know the
[00:03:20.720] legendary Danny Shehan, he's an attorney
[00:03:23.360] who's been involved in cases like the
[00:03:25.040] Pentagon Papers, Watergate, Iran Contra,
[00:03:28.959] and he later became legal counsel for
[00:03:31.040] Steven Greer's disclosure project. He's
[00:03:33.760] currently representing UFO
[00:03:35.760] whistleblowers and he is also at the
[00:03:38.400] helm of the new paradigm institute which
[00:03:41.120] seeks to quote compel full and
[00:03:44.159] responsible UAP disclosure from
[00:03:46.239] governments, private or public companies
[00:03:48.400] and individuals and to prepare the human
[00:03:50.879] family for the cultural shifts that will
[00:03:53.519] come with irrefutable evidence of
[00:03:55.840] extraterrestrial contact. Let's get into
[00:03:58.879] this one. But first, do like, subscribe,
[00:04:01.840] hype the video on YouTube. If you are
[00:04:04.400] listening on Apple or Spotify,
[00:04:06.560] subscribe, leave a review. All of the
[00:04:09.040] above do help and are deeply
[00:04:11.680] appreciated. So much love for being
[00:04:13.760] here, my friends. Let's commence this
[00:04:15.519] mind meld with the great Danny Shehan.
[00:04:19.280] So Danny, like I was just saying, I feel
[00:04:21.759] like this is a really auspicious
[00:04:23.120] synchronistic time to have you in town
[00:04:25.040] and both be doing South by Southwest
[00:04:27.360] because it is one of, I think, the most
[00:04:29.600] consequential times in UFO disclosure in
[00:04:32.720] recent memory as someone who's been
[00:04:34.160] paying attention. And of course, people
[00:04:36.240] on UFO Twitter will probably uh disagree
[00:04:39.040] and uh quibble about what's real, what's
[00:04:42.560] an op, what's, you know, what's going
[00:04:44.080] on. But
[00:04:45.680] >> from a mainstream perspective, I think
[00:04:47.520] the release of Age of Disclosure and
[00:04:49.840] this promise by Trump are two of the
[00:04:52.800] biggest developments I can remember
[00:04:54.880] seeing, you know, in since I've been
[00:04:56.960] interested, at least again, in a
[00:04:58.560] mainstream way for all of my uh
[00:05:01.040] skeptical um friends out there.
[00:05:04.639] >> Um
[00:05:05.440] >> but yeah, what is your assessment of
[00:05:07.280] where we're at? And do you think these
[00:05:08.720] are Yeah.
[00:05:09.360] >> consequential? I think I think that the
[00:05:12.639] uh you know obviously uh the people
[00:05:15.280] who've been at this for as long as I
[00:05:17.680] have for 50 years uh saw the and it's
[00:05:21.520] always talked about the the December
[00:05:23.759] 17th 2017 front page article by the New
[00:05:27.600] York Times you know in which it was
[00:05:30.320] acknowledged uh by Lou Alzando and Chris
[00:05:34.080] Melon uh not only that there was in fact
[00:05:37.280] an above top secret program actively
[00:05:40.639] underway in the United States Pentagon
[00:05:43.120] investigating UFOs as such uh and that
[00:05:46.960] they had concluded that UFOs were real,
[00:05:50.479] that they were not swamp gas, they were
[00:05:52.800] not just mistaken flocks of birds or
[00:05:56.800] spotlights shining off the bottom of
[00:05:58.560] clouds. This was an extremely important
[00:06:00.720] watershed uh because people from a uh
[00:06:04.000] from a uh epistemological point of view,
[00:06:07.120] you know, that they they look to sources
[00:06:09.520] of authority uh to tell them what's
[00:06:11.919] real. Most people don't spend the time
[00:06:14.319] or have the time to investigate the
[00:06:17.199] dimensions of reality itself, even
[00:06:19.360] political reality, unless they're told
[00:06:21.520] by some authoritative source. And the
[00:06:23.600] New York Times over time has become that
[00:06:26.240] one of those sources. Uh, and when the
[00:06:29.039] New York Times board of editors made
[00:06:31.280] this decision that they were going to go
[00:06:32.960] with a front page above the fold, as
[00:06:35.759] they refer to it, story, uh, confirming
[00:06:38.960] through authoritative sources like Lou
[00:06:41.120] Alzando, who was the chief of security
[00:06:43.759] for the advanced weapons special access
[00:06:47.039] program inside the Pentagon, and Chris
[00:06:49.440] Melon, uh, who had been the, uh,
[00:06:51.919] assistant deputy director, uh, of the,
[00:06:54.960] uh, of the Defense Department for
[00:06:56.960] intelligence.
[00:06:58.160] both under the Clinton administration,
[00:06:59.919] Democrats and W. Bush uh Republican
[00:07:03.520] administration telling the world through
[00:07:06.639] the New York Times uh that that UFOs
[00:07:10.479] were real uh that they were not just
[00:07:12.960] swamp gas and all and in fact that the
[00:07:15.520] United States government was involved in
[00:07:18.639] uh in a program of searching for them in
[00:07:21.759] trying to quote understand them. Now,
[00:07:24.400] this is this was a a a definite
[00:07:26.720] watershed uh moment, okay? And strangely
[00:07:30.240] enough, from December of 2017, you know,
[00:07:33.440] all the way to 2023,
[00:07:37.440] you know, like a six-year period, there
[00:07:39.360] was this whole settling in of that
[00:07:41.599] particular insight. Now, that that uh
[00:07:44.639] that this was real. That was a very
[00:07:46.880] important uh crossover because up until
[00:07:49.599] that point virtually every single
[00:07:51.680] authority inside the United States
[00:07:53.440] government kept insisting that UFOs
[00:07:56.240] weren't real. Uh that the phenomenon was
[00:07:58.879] just mistaken identity on the part of
[00:08:01.680] the observers. So that was an extremely
[00:08:04.080] important moment very it's hard to under
[00:08:06.319] overstate how important that was. And
[00:08:08.560] then in on July 26th of 2023,
[00:08:13.759] you had David Grush uh come forward and
[00:08:17.680] in another authoritative setting, in
[00:08:20.080] this case, the United States Congress,
[00:08:22.400] the House Oversight Committee, under
[00:08:24.560] oath telling the people not only that
[00:08:27.599] UFOs were real, but that we were in
[00:08:30.400] possession of at least one of them.
[00:08:32.399] Yeah. you know, and which he referred to
[00:08:34.000] as a nonhuman origin extraterrestrial
[00:08:38.080] spacecraft.
[00:08:38.880] >> Yeah.
[00:08:39.599] >> And in in possession of the bodies
[00:08:42.240] >> Mhm.
[00:08:42.719] >> that were recovered from the craft that
[00:08:45.360] had been scientifically examined in the
[00:08:47.600] famous biologics.
[00:08:48.720] >> Yeah. His famous biologics statement.
[00:08:50.880] But it it means that they're they're
[00:08:53.200] nonhuman beings. Okay. That's another
[00:08:56.320] kind of extraordinary moment. uh not
[00:08:59.200] only because of the substantive content
[00:09:01.120] of it which you know people had been
[00:09:03.200] speculating about uh but to have an
[00:09:05.279] authoritative source who had been a
[00:09:07.360] highranking official in the National
[00:09:10.720] Geospatial Intelligence Agency which
[00:09:13.680] people didn't even know what that was
[00:09:15.446] [laughter]
[00:09:16.240] at that point people didn't know there
[00:09:17.519] was such a thing right and that he'd
[00:09:19.600] been a high ranking official in the
[00:09:21.360] National Reconnaissance Office which
[00:09:23.200] more people had heard about but the the
[00:09:25.600] fact that he was on the special task
[00:09:27.760] force that have been put together inside
[00:09:29.920] the Pentagon to do this investigation.
[00:09:32.959] Okay? And that was the UAP task force.
[00:09:36.080] All right? Uh and and so for him coming
[00:09:38.160] in front of the Congress and very
[00:09:39.760] importantly to have the Congress of the
[00:09:42.800] United States decide that they were
[00:09:44.959] going to put him in front of the cameras
[00:09:47.120] live out to the whole world of him
[00:09:50.399] asserting this uh took on the authority
[00:09:54.320] of the Congress of the United States.
[00:09:56.560] Okay, that's another extraordinarily
[00:09:58.800] important moment. Okay, so that that uh
[00:10:02.399] in then uh the the fight went on uh with
[00:10:06.480] Lou Alzando. Lou, another important
[00:10:09.120] moment that most people don't realize
[00:10:11.120] the importance of Lou Alzando
[00:10:14.160] uh because the the no nothings inside
[00:10:17.360] the Pentagon, you know, responded
[00:10:19.680] immediately with her hair on fire
[00:10:21.440] saying, "Wait a second, none of this
[00:10:22.880] none of this is true." uh you know that
[00:10:25.440] uh the the fact is we don't know who Lu
[00:10:27.760] Alzando is. Lu Alzando has never been
[00:10:30.720] part of the defense department. Uh we
[00:10:33.600] have no records of there being any such
[00:10:35.440] program. It was a totally bizarre thing.
[00:10:37.440] You know Susan Gao and and others you
[00:10:39.680] know inside the press office of the of
[00:10:42.079] who either hadn't gotten the memo
[00:10:45.182] [laughter] that that things had changed
[00:10:47.519] or didn't care. And the bottom line is
[00:10:50.320] Lou uh got really upset about this that
[00:10:53.040] they were calling him a liar publicly.
[00:10:55.040] Yeah. And here here's a guy, you know,
[00:10:56.399] that's got a lifelong career inside the
[00:10:58.880] United States military is a very high
[00:11:01.680] level uh counter intelligence officer
[00:11:04.880] >> being having the world told that he's a
[00:11:06.800] liar. So he got very upset about this.
[00:11:09.680] And so there's another extraordinarily
[00:11:12.000] important moment that happened here. And
[00:11:14.079] it was Lou Alzando.
[00:11:15.839] >> Uh oh. Well, there was the other one,
[00:11:17.279] the to the stars academy. Yes. There was
[00:11:20.000] this thing that happened, you know, uh
[00:11:22.160] uh in like 2021,
[00:11:26.000] uh where all of a sudden, uh Tom Dong,
[00:11:29.360] kind of a cultural hero, you know, of of
[00:11:32.560] the big band,
[00:11:34.079] >> you know, had put together a group of
[00:11:36.079] men, uh who were quite authoritative,
[00:11:38.959] you know, one of them was Lou Alzando
[00:11:40.880] and and you had Chris Melon, you had Hal
[00:11:43.200] Putoff,
[00:11:44.399] >> uh you had Jay Stratton, you know, you
[00:11:46.560] had a number of these people that were
[00:11:48.720] sitting with him on a a nationwide uh uh
[00:11:53.040] uh uh I guess they call it streaming
[00:11:55.600] event uh saying, "Oh, here we are and
[00:11:58.560] we're a group that's going to be uh
[00:12:00.959] going forward in not only investigating
[00:12:03.600] further the information about the UFOs
[00:12:05.760] because they're all real, but we're
[00:12:07.760] going to be using some of the technology
[00:12:11.120] uh because one of the other things that
[00:12:13.040] that uh that was said in 2023
[00:12:17.839] later by uh by uh Dave Grush is that he
[00:12:23.040] told the world that our Pentagon was
[00:12:25.680] secretly trying to reverse engineer
[00:12:28.560] >> the technology. Yeah.
[00:12:30.240] >> And he said that in open session in
[00:12:32.480] Congress and now this is getting into
[00:12:34.079] weapons stuff.
[00:12:34.880] >> Right. Right. That now that's that's an
[00:12:37.120] extraordinarily important thing to have
[00:12:39.200] to have a person of his stature in
[00:12:41.279] knowledge be talking about the fact that
[00:12:43.440] we're engaged in the development of a of
[00:12:45.839] a weapons system to utilize the
[00:12:49.760] technology that we've recovered from
[00:12:52.320] nonhuman origin extraterrestrial
[00:12:54.800] spacecraft, you know, [snorts] to uh
[00:12:57.200] examine their propulsion system and
[00:12:59.279] their anti-gravity. Yeah. for for him
[00:13:01.440] for him to be saying things like this in
[00:13:04.399] open session in Congress. Obviously, the
[00:13:07.839] the the House Oversight Committee had
[00:13:10.399] seen a copy of his proposed testimony.
[00:13:14.399] Yes. You know, he had actually given
[00:13:15.920] them a a typed version of it. So, so
[00:13:19.760] what we have here happening uh is the
[00:13:22.399] the penetration into sort of the the the
[00:13:25.279] you know the the sacred areas of the
[00:13:28.079] Pentagon. We're talking about a weapons
[00:13:30.399] program being developed, right? You
[00:13:32.240] know, that that'll usually get you shot,
[00:13:34.320] you know, if you talk about something
[00:13:35.920] like that. So, so all of this was taken
[00:13:38.399] those those are serious moments. And
[00:13:41.519] then, as I said, when Lou started being
[00:13:44.560] really upset over the fact that Susan
[00:13:47.120] Gao and some of the other people inside
[00:13:48.720] the Pentagon were publicly calling him a
[00:13:51.040] liar uh in asserting that they had no
[00:13:53.440] records of him at all, uh he decided he
[00:13:57.040] was going to file a complaint, you know,
[00:13:59.199] uh with the inspector general of the
[00:14:01.040] defense department. Uh and he, this is
[00:14:04.720] the event that people didn't realize was
[00:14:06.880] quite as important as it was. He reached
[00:14:09.120] out to me.
[00:14:10.399] >> Okay. He called me, you know, and I uh
[00:14:14.320] for 20 years had been general counsel
[00:14:16.560] for the disclosure project, right, of
[00:14:18.560] Dr. Steven Greer.
[00:14:19.839] >> Yes.
[00:14:20.560] >> Prior to that, in 1994,
[00:14:23.440] I was the legal counsel for for Dr. John
[00:14:26.079] Mack. Yes. At Harvard. Okay. And prior
[00:14:29.040] to that, I had been general counsel
[00:14:31.440] under President uh Carter of him tasking
[00:14:35.680] the Congressional Research Service to
[00:14:38.240] dig out every single document that we
[00:14:40.240] had in the government about UFOs and
[00:14:43.120] about extraterrestrial intelligence that
[00:14:45.760] might be connected to the UFO. So I had
[00:14:48.160] I had had this long history, you know,
[00:14:50.720] uh starting when I was at Jesuit
[00:14:52.160] headquarters. Yeah. Uh in the office in
[00:14:54.639] charge of their public policy positions,
[00:14:57.120] right, as a as a a candidate for the
[00:14:59.279] Jesuit
[00:14:59.680] >> precept. And so that that when Lou
[00:15:02.800] reached out to me to ask me to be his
[00:15:06.240] attorney uh in preparing this complaint
[00:15:09.120] that he was going to be filing with the
[00:15:10.639] inspector general, what I did in in
[00:15:13.199] conversations with Lou uh
[00:15:16.880] got Lou to acknowledge to me that part
[00:15:19.760] of his upset wasn't just that they were
[00:15:21.440] calling him a liar, but the fact that
[00:15:23.120] they were lying to Congress
[00:15:24.880] >> and they were lying to the American
[00:15:26.480] people that they had a whole program
[00:15:28.560] going on, a scops program directed
[00:15:31.600] against the the civilian population of
[00:15:34.000] our our country which is absolutely
[00:15:36.480] unconstitutional and technically illegal
[00:15:39.519] as well. Okay. And so so he decided that
[00:15:43.360] he would file a more expansive complaint
[00:15:47.040] >> that it wasn't just oh they're picking
[00:15:48.720] on me and retaliating against me for for
[00:15:51.040] being a whistleblower. what he did. I
[00:15:53.600] pointed out to him that technically it
[00:15:56.079] didn't qualify because he was no longer
[00:15:58.399] employed because he resigned. Okay? And
[00:16:01.279] once you've resigned, you you don't have
[00:16:03.519] any standing to bring a complaint uh as
[00:16:06.160] retaliation inside the the uh the
[00:16:09.120] statue. But we went forward with it and
[00:16:12.639] uh what it was an extraordinary
[00:16:14.800] experience. you know, we went together
[00:16:17.199] into the big headquarters of the
[00:16:19.120] inspector general's uh right next door
[00:16:21.519] to the Pentagon there, uh, and sat down
[00:16:24.079] with the inspector general himself. Uh,
[00:16:26.639] and you could tell that the the he the
[00:16:29.360] inspector general had not been briefed
[00:16:30.720] in on this program.
[00:16:31.759] >> He had didn't know what
[00:16:32.959] >> No, no, no. Didn't know what was coming,
[00:16:35.040] but he just thought that, you know, that
[00:16:36.800] this guy was whining about it and and
[00:16:38.880] was saying things that that as far as
[00:16:40.880] the inspector general knew weren't true.
[00:16:43.199] Uh, and so Lou started do putting on a
[00:16:46.480] seminar for the inspector general. Let
[00:16:48.880] me tell you what I know, he said. And
[00:16:50.880] let me tell you how I know. Uh, and he
[00:16:52.880] started laying this out for him. Uh, and
[00:16:55.040] I was sitting there at his side, you
[00:16:56.880] know, with with the uh with the
[00:16:59.040] inspector general kind of going, who's
[00:17:00.720] this guy? You know, uh, and and then I
[00:17:03.680] would chime in saying, you know, not
[00:17:05.360] only that, but here's another person
[00:17:07.199] that I know about that you should talk
[00:17:09.360] to who can confirm what Lou is saying.
[00:17:11.919] you know, I'm here to confirm. And I
[00:17:13.439] told him who I was and he was kind of
[00:17:15.520] astonished, you know, the the legal
[00:17:17.679] counsel, general counsel for the United
[00:17:19.120] States Jesuit headquarters, you know,
[00:17:21.120] would would be there confirming that
[00:17:23.280] this was actually true. And it started
[00:17:25.520] to dawn on the inspector general.
[00:17:27.600] >> Yeah.
[00:17:28.079] >> That he was now getting to discover
[00:17:30.320] something was true that he had not been
[00:17:33.039] told about, right? And so he started
[00:17:35.600] sending out to get other people from his
[00:17:37.679] staff to come into the meeting. It was
[00:17:40.000] it was quite quite an extraordinary
[00:17:41.760] experience. And then they started filing
[00:17:43.840] in and coming in, you know, and it
[00:17:45.200] started just building up and then a full
[00:17:48.400] bird colonel from the United States Air
[00:17:50.000] Force comes in and sits at the end of
[00:17:52.320] the table and he hadn't been told about
[00:17:54.880] this. And so you could tell that there
[00:17:57.280] there began to develop in the course of
[00:17:59.280] the meeting this sense of being offended
[00:18:02.080] not by Lou, but by the people that were
[00:18:04.480] lying to them. Right. Yeah,
[00:18:06.160] >> friends, I have been doubling down on
[00:18:08.799] content over in the YouTube members
[00:18:10.720] section and on Patreon. So, if you
[00:18:13.440] desire further novelty, point your
[00:18:16.080] Qualia in said directions. If you do
[00:18:19.280] join up at patreon.com/thirdeyrops,
[00:18:22.400] you will also get access to a patronon
[00:18:24.559] Discord and other rewards. Or if you
[00:18:27.360] just want that content, flip over to the
[00:18:30.160] member section here on YouTube and
[00:18:32.400] become an initiate. so much love for
[00:18:34.799] supporting and back to the mind.
[00:18:37.280] >> And then they started filing in and
[00:18:39.120] coming in, you know, and it started just
[00:18:40.480] building up and then a full bird colonel
[00:18:43.840] from the United States Air Force comes
[00:18:45.520] in and sits at the end of the table and
[00:18:48.320] he hadn't been told about this. And so
[00:18:50.720] you could tell that there there began to
[00:18:53.039] develop in the course of the meeting
[00:18:54.559] this sense of being offended not by Lou,
[00:18:58.160] but by the people that were lying to
[00:18:59.760] them, right? And so the so we and one of
[00:19:03.039] the things that Lou said with with some
[00:19:05.440] conversation with me is that to demand
[00:19:08.000] that the the inspector general insist
[00:19:10.880] that the defense department uh amend
[00:19:13.760] their policies so that they actually
[00:19:16.080] have a protocol, written protocol
[00:19:19.039] authorizing people in the military
[00:19:21.280] services which they had jurisdiction
[00:19:23.360] over to come forward and to share
[00:19:25.919] information with Congress about the UFO
[00:19:28.720] phenomenon. And they did it. They they
[00:19:31.520] actually did it. They they responded to
[00:19:33.760] Lou Alzando to actually issue a a
[00:19:36.720] directive uh ordering the people that if
[00:19:39.679] they had information about this to come
[00:19:41.200] forward and then the Congress followed
[00:19:44.080] up on it uh dropped the ball on it, but
[00:19:46.720] they followed up on it by saying, "Let's
[00:19:48.559] set up a special office uh inside the
[00:19:51.840] defense department uh with the
[00:19:53.919] intelligence agency." So the director of
[00:19:56.160] national intelligence and the the
[00:19:58.240] secretary of defense were charged with
[00:20:00.640] creating an office to which people could
[00:20:03.760] come inside the military and
[00:20:05.360] intelligence community and deliver their
[00:20:07.360] information. And that was the advanced
[00:20:09.520] uh aerospace uh arrow the arrow office
[00:20:13.679] the advanced uh aeronautic or anomaly
[00:20:17.440] advanced anomaly resolution office. Yes.
[00:20:20.240] Right. Uh and so
[00:20:21.679] >> which has become quite controversial
[00:20:23.120] because some
[00:20:23.919] >> well rightly so because it was still
[00:20:26.240] under the control of the of the
[00:20:27.840] intelligence community i.e. the CIA.
[00:20:30.400] >> Yes.
[00:20:31.039] >> And the defense department. The very
[00:20:32.799] people who had been lying about this for
[00:20:34.880] 80 years. And I was one of the initial
[00:20:38.080] people that was contacted by Arrow say,
[00:20:40.960] "Okay, get on in here and tell us what
[00:20:44.320] you know." Uh and it was Sean
[00:20:46.080] Kirkpatrick himself that interviewed me,
[00:20:48.880] >> right? It wasn't just some lowly staff
[00:20:50.799] person. And so I sat right there and
[00:20:52.640] told Sean. I said, "Okay, here are the
[00:20:54.880] people. You talk to them, you know, get
[00:20:57.039] them and and they'll tell you they've
[00:20:58.720] got firsthand knowledge about this, you
[00:21:00.640] know, and in including people that were
[00:21:02.799] part of the crash retrieval program, you
[00:21:05.440] know, uh whom I had interviewed when I
[00:21:07.679] was legal counsel for the the disclosure
[00:21:10.159] project, Steven Greer. Yes. Right. And
[00:21:12.400] so I had all this information and so I
[00:21:14.320] started pouring it on him. And I got to
[00:21:16.720] be very suspicious when I saw him lay
[00:21:19.120] his pen down and stopped taking notes
[00:21:22.320] >> cuz because it wasn't recorded. They
[00:21:24.799] weren't recording the information. They
[00:21:27.039] were scribbling down notes and he just
[00:21:29.760] lays his pencil or pen down and stopped
[00:21:32.320] taking notes. And I knew what that was
[00:21:34.400] because I'd been through it before when
[00:21:36.320] I was legal counsel in the Iran Contra
[00:21:38.159] case and FBI people that had been sent
[00:21:41.200] over to me by uh Lawrence Walsh, the
[00:21:44.000] special prosecutor got appointed. When I
[00:21:46.000] started telling them inside stuff about
[00:21:48.080] what was going on, the FBI guy, this guy
[00:21:51.039] Okorn, just laid his pen down just like
[00:21:54.000] that. And I knew what that meant. It was
[00:21:55.919] they didn't want any record of this
[00:21:57.679] established. Okay. And then as Sean
[00:22:00.240] Kirkpatre lied publicly uh in in talked
[00:22:04.480] to uh uh you know Senator Gillibrand
[00:22:07.840] another under oath saying they had
[00:22:10.159] received no information of any kind
[00:22:12.480] suggesting that there was any kind of
[00:22:14.000] crash retrieval program. You know we'
[00:22:16.000] given him the names and contact
[00:22:17.600] information. Yes. And he'd done nothing.
[00:22:20.000] So we knew right away that that was a
[00:22:21.760] bogus operation. Uh and began saying so.
[00:22:24.880] Now, I had the great advantage of the
[00:22:26.559] fact that I had refused to get a
[00:22:28.799] security clearance. They kept saying,
[00:22:30.640] "Oh, look at if you're going to be
[00:22:31.760] representing Lu Alzando and be helping
[00:22:33.679] him prepare this, you know, that he
[00:22:36.240] can't tell you things that are
[00:22:37.520] classified unless you get a a security
[00:22:40.400] clearance." But if I had gotten a
[00:22:41.919] security clearance, then anything and
[00:22:44.159] everything that I had learned over by
[00:22:45.840] that time a 45 year period of working in
[00:22:48.720] this whole area, I wouldn't have been
[00:22:50.240] able to say it publicly because they
[00:22:52.640] would pretend that it came because I had
[00:22:54.240] the clearance.
[00:22:55.120] >> Yeah.
[00:22:55.520] >> So I refused.
[00:22:56.960] >> Yeah. So that that's a really good
[00:22:58.640] summary, maybe a fast-paced summary for
[00:23:01.039] people who who aren't familiar with all
[00:23:02.799] of this on sort of the major bullet
[00:23:04.960] points of uh this latest wave of
[00:23:07.280] disclosure. And this all preceded
[00:23:09.360] >> this all preceded the the uh the
[00:23:12.640] documentary,
[00:23:13.760] >> right?
[00:23:14.159] >> Right. And it preceded Trump's pretended
[00:23:17.600] assertion he was going to disclose this
[00:23:19.360] stuff. It was all utter You
[00:23:21.679] know, anybody who has a political IQ
[00:23:23.600] above room temperature knows Trump
[00:23:26.559] because Trump made the same promise to
[00:23:28.400] disclose all the Epstein files.
[00:23:30.159] >> Right. Right.
[00:23:30.799] >> And the minute he said, "Oh, the minute
[00:23:32.799] if you elect me for a second term, uh
[00:23:34.720] that's the first thing I'll do." and he
[00:23:36.480] actually choreographed the people from
[00:23:38.559] the Freedom Caucus, these eight very
[00:23:41.039] conservative members of the House to
[00:23:42.880] stand on the steps of the of the
[00:23:44.480] Congress with these pretended folders of
[00:23:47.520] here's the files, you know, let's let's
[00:23:50.159] get all these out.
[00:23:51.039] >> And then they turn around and say, "Oh,
[00:23:52.240] there are no files and it's only upon
[00:23:54.880] severe public demand and outcry that
[00:23:57.200] they produce anything."
[00:23:58.159] >> Well, and and the fact that the members
[00:24:00.159] of Congress started getting the heat
[00:24:02.400] because the the people were really
[00:24:04.240] pissed off over the fact that Trump had
[00:24:07.039] betrayed them. I mean, they the more
[00:24:09.440] conservative people in the country had
[00:24:11.679] had placed confidence in him personally,
[00:24:15.039] right? Which he of course demanded.
[00:24:16.960] >> Yeah.
[00:24:17.440] >> And then when he he wouldn't do it and
[00:24:19.520] started pushing back, they were going to
[00:24:21.840] their Congress people saying, "Okay,
[00:24:23.919] we're poed over what he's doing. We want
[00:24:26.240] you to go ahead and do something." So
[00:24:27.919] the congress people started going,
[00:24:29.279] "Well, look, uh, you know, we hadn't had
[00:24:31.679] any motive of our own to find out about
[00:24:33.760] this because who knows what's in there,
[00:24:36.000] you know, and who we know that might be
[00:24:38.000] in those files." So they hadn't been
[00:24:39.679] motivated to do anything until people
[00:24:41.840] really started, you know, getting in the
[00:24:43.360] streets with, you know, torches and
[00:24:44.640] pitchforks.
[00:24:45.840] >> So then what they did is they they uh
[00:24:48.720] they actually passed or they had a bill
[00:24:51.919] for the transparency on the the Epstein
[00:24:55.279] files. They had the Epstein Files
[00:24:57.279] Transparency Act. Yeah. To be clear. And
[00:25:00.240] then Mike Johnson, the speaker of the
[00:25:02.480] house, at the behest of Trump, refused
[00:25:05.200] to put it on the floor for a vote.
[00:25:06.880] >> Right.
[00:25:07.679] >> And so what the Congress people did in
[00:25:09.679] the House, they actually went to the
[00:25:11.440] point of of of getting a discharge
[00:25:13.679] petition prepared. and that if you can
[00:25:15.600] get a majority of the members of the 435
[00:25:18.080] members of Congress to demand that a
[00:25:20.159] bill be put on the floor despite the
[00:25:22.960] sacred fact that the speaker of the
[00:25:25.600] house didn't want it to go to the floor.
[00:25:27.760] Yeah.
[00:25:28.080] >> And you know that's a longstanding
[00:25:30.000] procedure in the in the Congress and
[00:25:32.480] this discharge petition is a very very
[00:25:34.400] rare thing to happen but they did it.
[00:25:36.799] Okay. And then it went on to the floor
[00:25:38.559] and passed, of course. And so now there
[00:25:40.720] was a direct command from the Congress
[00:25:43.840] to the Justice Department directly
[00:25:46.320] demanding that they turn the stuff over.
[00:25:48.320] And then Trump intervened and started in
[00:25:50.480] in instructing uh the attorney general
[00:25:54.159] uh you know to not turn over the
[00:25:56.640] documents. Yeah. And so that it it was
[00:25:58.720] now displaying the fact that Trump was
[00:26:01.440] lying about this and was further
[00:26:03.760] betraying the people. So they got even
[00:26:05.440] more and more angry. And so what
[00:26:07.039] happened is the House of Representatives
[00:26:09.520] House Oversight Committee set up a
[00:26:11.600] special task force. This is another
[00:26:14.320] major point that they set up an actual
[00:26:17.279] task force of 12 people, Republicans and
[00:26:20.080] Democrats. uh is in a sense not a full
[00:26:23.279] subcommittee
[00:26:24.640] >> cuz cuz uh James Comr who's the chairman
[00:26:27.120] of the House Oversight Committee didn't
[00:26:28.880] give them part of his budget, didn't
[00:26:30.960] assign them subpoena power, didn't
[00:26:32.480] assign them any staff, but went through
[00:26:34.880] the motions say, "Okay, well, we're
[00:26:36.240] going to have a task force on this,
[00:26:37.679] which is going to have jurisdiction over
[00:26:39.600] not only getting all of the Epstein
[00:26:42.400] files revealed, but all of the UFO
[00:26:44.720] files."
[00:26:45.279] >> Wow.
[00:26:45.840] >> As well. This is an extraordinarily
[00:26:48.640] important point of thing and these are
[00:26:51.279] kind of things going on behind the
[00:26:52.480] scenes that it's helpful to get a chance
[00:26:54.080] to talk with you about this that people
[00:26:55.840] don't know about it. They've heard about
[00:26:57.440] this task force,
[00:26:58.960] >> but it's the one that's just lighting a
[00:27:01.440] fire under Trump and under the justice
[00:27:03.440] department to get at all of the uh the
[00:27:05.679] Epstein files. But not only that, but
[00:27:08.240] it's establishing a pathway by means
[00:27:11.200] procedural pathway by means of which we
[00:27:13.760] can do the same stuff with regard to the
[00:27:15.679] UFO stuff. So that we're letting the the
[00:27:18.559] we're letting the uh the Epstein files
[00:27:20.960] people all all run by um Anna Pelina
[00:27:24.000] Luna.
[00:27:24.880] >> Uh she's got square responsibility for
[00:27:27.919] doing this, for getting the Epstein
[00:27:29.679] files out and she's delegated Eric
[00:27:32.559] Berles.
[00:27:33.440] >> Yes. uh another member of the extremely
[00:27:36.799] conservative person, right? Extremely
[00:27:39.039] conservative, but you know, he's like
[00:27:40.640] Mr. Smith goes to Washington, you know,
[00:27:43.120] he's a Jimmy Stewart kind of character
[00:27:45.039] and he's he just believes that the
[00:27:47.520] Constitution is functioning uh and that
[00:27:49.840] he's going to go right forward and get
[00:27:51.360] this stuff. So, so now we have the task
[00:27:54.720] force, which is extremely important in
[00:27:56.880] from an investigatory point of view
[00:27:58.720] because there's a go-to place. there's a
[00:28:01.120] go-to place that can be trusted. Uh, and
[00:28:03.919] they knew they couldn't trust Arrow.
[00:28:05.840] >> So, the people that had the inside
[00:28:07.520] information and they'd been authorized
[00:28:09.279] by the regulation that had been passed
[00:28:10.960] now by the Defense Department to come
[00:28:12.799] forward and give information to
[00:28:14.240] Congress, but they knew Arrow wasn't the
[00:28:16.320] place to do it because it would just go
[00:28:18.000] there and die. And so, what they did is
[00:28:20.000] they began to go to the Senate
[00:28:22.480] Intelligence Committee
[00:28:24.399] >> inside the Congress and deliver
[00:28:26.240] firsthand information. So 40 of the
[00:28:29.200] people from inside the the UFO secret
[00:28:32.720] program, reverse engineering program
[00:28:35.279] started coming forward to the Senate
[00:28:37.279] Intelligence Committee staff and giving
[00:28:39.679] them all the information. So now the
[00:28:42.000] Senate has it. Uh, and of course then
[00:28:44.720] the thing that was so extraordinarily
[00:28:46.880] important, you know, I keep saying one
[00:28:49.039] thing is the United States Senate passed
[00:28:51.760] a 64page bill,
[00:28:53.600] >> right,
[00:28:54.080] >> ordering them commanding all of the the
[00:28:57.039] six US military services, uh, all 18 of
[00:29:00.080] the United States intelligence agencies,
[00:29:02.240] all 32 of the United States Defense
[00:29:04.080] Department agencies and departments, and
[00:29:07.120] all of the private aerospace
[00:29:08.720] corporations that had ever been put into
[00:29:10.880] possession of any information by our
[00:29:12.720] government about these programs that
[00:29:14.880] they were commanded to gather together
[00:29:17.520] every single piece of information they'd
[00:29:19.520] ever had about the UFO issue and
[00:29:21.919] extraterrestrial intelligence and non
[00:29:24.640] intelligence sources that may be
[00:29:26.799] responsible for the phenomenon and gave
[00:29:28.960] them 300 days from the passage of the
[00:29:32.159] statute 300 days to get it all put
[00:29:35.200] together and turn it over immediately
[00:29:38.720] >> to the to the uh it's a national archive
[00:29:42.320] lives. But then the the Senate bill went
[00:29:45.679] to the House for approval. The Senate
[00:29:48.159] the Senate Well, also one of the things
[00:29:50.159] that they did in the in the Senate bill
[00:29:52.240] was they said they commanded the
[00:29:54.080] president to appoint a nine-person
[00:29:56.480] review board, an independently appointed
[00:30:00.480] review board to review all of that
[00:30:02.559] information and decide what's to be
[00:30:06.159] disclosed to the public. Yeah. Right.
[00:30:08.640] including
[00:30:10.240] another major milestone, including
[00:30:13.039] everything older than 25 years.
[00:30:15.600] >> Okay.
[00:30:16.399] >> Okay. This another one of those little
[00:30:17.600] buried things.
[00:30:18.159] >> So, so theoretically, they're supposed
[00:30:19.760] to disclose whatever they can disclose
[00:30:22.240] now currently. And anything over 25
[00:30:24.960] years old, they're supposed to just let
[00:30:26.480] it out. Bang it out. Okay. And so that
[00:30:29.279] was that was in and the house agreed to
[00:30:31.679] to they didn't agree to have a the
[00:30:33.840] committee, but they did order them to
[00:30:35.919] gather all the stuff together and to get
[00:30:38.159] get it prepared, put it into a digital
[00:30:40.000] format with a searchable index, okay,
[00:30:42.880] and have it done at 300 days. But then
[00:30:46.080] here was the problem. It went over to
[00:30:48.080] the House and the the chairman of the
[00:30:50.960] House Intelligence Committee, uh, Mike
[00:30:53.520] Turner, who happened to come from the
[00:30:55.760] congressional or be in charge of the
[00:30:57.360] congressional district where the Wright
[00:30:59.039] Patterson Air Force Base is where a lot
[00:31:01.360] of the reverse engineering was going on.
[00:31:03.760] And so, you know, he's he's got selfies
[00:31:06.720] taken of him, you know, with the the
[00:31:09.120] leadership at Wright Patterson and with
[00:31:11.360] the private aerospace corporations that
[00:31:13.520] are doing it, you know, like like Ren uh
[00:31:16.399] uh yeah, renaissance. Uh and uh and and
[00:31:20.080] so the the bottom line is uh that the
[00:31:23.039] house changed the language at the very
[00:31:25.679] end saying you have to do all that. You
[00:31:27.440] have to gather all identify it, gather
[00:31:29.039] it all together, get it into the the the
[00:31:30.799] the format and then deliver it to the
[00:31:33.840] National Archives as soon as possible.
[00:31:36.720] >> And this was and this was supposed to be
[00:31:38.080] in like October 2024, right?
[00:31:40.000] >> October of 2024. They had 300 days. But
[00:31:42.559] he they said then you have to turn it
[00:31:44.080] over as soon as possible. And when a
[00:31:45.440] lawyer sees language like that, you
[00:31:47.200] know, your hair catches on fire because
[00:31:48.960] you say, "Wait a second. You know, as
[00:31:50.559] soon as possible, you know, my mother's
[00:31:52.000] horse died. I had a hangail. you know,
[00:31:54.320] uh, you know, I wasn't feeling good that
[00:31:55.679] day and I didn't come to the office, you
[00:31:57.120] know, that kind of actually.
[00:31:59.440] And so that what happened is the the
[00:32:01.519] people on the exe in the executive
[00:32:03.600] branch didn't do anything. You know,
[00:32:06.159] they didn't try to gather the stuff
[00:32:07.519] together. They didn't try to identify
[00:32:08.880] it. They didn't do anything. Okay. So
[00:32:10.960] the so so so the bottom line is uh all
[00:32:14.000] of that we were kind of churning water
[00:32:16.159] there for for a while. And we knew I
[00:32:18.960] knew because I was Lou's attorney,
[00:32:21.279] right? I knew that Lou was working with
[00:32:23.679] Jay Stratton uh to to put together this
[00:32:26.880] documentary film. Yes.
[00:32:28.640] >> And they were going to be getting 34 of
[00:32:30.399] the guys that uh that all knew about the
[00:32:33.039] program to all come forward together. Uh
[00:32:35.919] and they were going to do this and Dan
[00:32:37.440] Herrera, you know, I Lou introduced me
[00:32:40.080] to him and I got to know him. Uh and
[00:32:42.240] they put they they put the thing
[00:32:43.679] together and then they told what they
[00:32:45.760] told in that documentary film. Okay. And
[00:32:49.039] then because of that, people all around
[00:32:51.200] the country were going, "Holy mackerel,
[00:32:53.840] look at these guys. Look who they are
[00:32:55.840] and look what they're saying." Including
[00:32:58.399] >> another, you know, there's a whole lot
[00:33:00.320] of important stuff that was said, but
[00:33:01.760] one one moment in there. Uh, excuse me,
[00:33:04.720] Eric Davis.
[00:33:05.760] >> Yes.
[00:33:06.320] >> Eric Davis, who was a major engineer,
[00:33:09.120] overseeing
[00:33:10.159] >> really I just had dinner with him in a
[00:33:11.760] small group a couple nights ago. Yeah.
[00:33:13.840] The the reverse engineering of this, he
[00:33:16.960] told the people directly that he had had
[00:33:19.360] a private conversation with with
[00:33:21.440] President George HW Bush. And George HW
[00:33:24.559] Bush had confirmed to him.
[00:33:26.559] >> Yes. that in uh April of 1964,
[00:33:30.640] April 26th of 1964,
[00:33:33.519] uh that three UFOs had approached the
[00:33:37.039] tarmac at the Hollowan Air Force Base in
[00:33:40.240] New Mexico uh and hovered over the
[00:33:42.799] tarmac and the center one descended and
[00:33:45.840] landed on the tarmac uh and a humanoid
[00:33:49.760] nonhuman being
[00:33:51.440] >> Yeah. uh you know almost six feet tall,
[00:33:54.240] you know, big head, big eyes, you know,
[00:33:57.039] long arms, the whole nine yards in
[00:33:58.960] >> I thought he described him as almost
[00:34:00.080] like a Nordic looking.
[00:34:01.200] >> Well, it was it's actually a tall white.
[00:34:03.360] The tall whites are different than the
[00:34:04.960] Nordics. Yes, we can touch on that, but
[00:34:07.679] but that's what clearly kind of tall
[00:34:09.839] white, came out of the craft in some
[00:34:12.960] kind of a tight fitting uniform. uh and
[00:34:15.839] was met on the tarmac by two highranking
[00:34:19.200] United States Air Force officials in
[00:34:21.040] uniform and two uh private civilians or
[00:34:24.960] government civilians actually who we
[00:34:26.800] assume are CIA people. Yeah. Right.
[00:34:29.359] >> And then and then I knew what happened
[00:34:32.399] after that because uh because uh uh uh
[00:34:35.679] Colonel Edgar Mitchell had told me about
[00:34:37.440] this before. Yeah. Right. that they went
[00:34:40.079] into a hanger right nearby on the tarmac
[00:34:43.440] uh and the the the the four guys and the
[00:34:46.720] ET guy uh and communicated
[00:34:49.280] telepathically for some significant
[00:34:51.919] amount of time and then they all came
[00:34:53.919] out and the beam got back into his
[00:34:55.679] craft. Uh it ascended back up. The other
[00:34:57.920] two craft had been hovering over the
[00:35:00.240] tarmac at the Hollowman Air Force Base
[00:35:02.720] for that entire period of time and then
[00:35:04.720] they went and shot off like that. Okay.
[00:35:07.280] And now and Eric Davis says this on
[00:35:09.760] November 21st of 2025 in the the uh age
[00:35:14.960] of disclosure. Now that's an
[00:35:16.880] extraordinary milestone. Yes.
[00:35:18.720] >> To be actually talking about a
[00:35:21.280] face-to-face contact with a living
[00:35:24.079] extraterrestrial being uh in high
[00:35:26.960] ranking officials of the United States
[00:35:28.640] Air Force and the CIA having direct
[00:35:32.560] face-to-face communication with him.
[00:35:34.800] That's a huge milestone. it is over and
[00:35:38.240] above the other general effect of the
[00:35:40.400] entire the entire uh documentary itself
[00:35:43.599] that particular piece of information
[00:35:45.680] because I knew from 50 years in the
[00:35:48.079] field that's new. Yeah. Know that's a
[00:35:50.560] new thing that just happened there.
[00:35:52.240] Yeah. And now now we've got President
[00:35:54.400] Trump well what happened as you know
[00:35:56.480] there was this event that took place on
[00:35:58.480] the 14th of February uh with President
[00:36:01.440] former President Obama
[00:36:03.040] >> right? He's in an interview. being
[00:36:04.880] interviewed and he was asked, "Well,
[00:36:06.960] what was the very first thing you did
[00:36:09.280] once you were inaugurated? What was the
[00:36:11.520] first thing you wanted to find out
[00:36:12.720] about?" He said, "I wanted to find out
[00:36:14.160] about the aliens." Are aliens real?
[00:36:17.119] >> Uh, they're real, but I haven't seen
[00:36:19.599] them. And and and uh they're not being
[00:36:21.520] kept in uh what is it?
[00:36:23.440] >> Area 51.
[00:36:24.079] >> Area 51. there there's no underground uh
[00:36:27.200] facility unless there's this enormous
[00:36:30.880] conspiracy and they they hid it from the
[00:36:33.599] president of the United States.
[00:36:35.119] >> What was the first question you wanted
[00:36:37.280] answered when you became president?
[00:36:39.760] >> Um where are the aliens?
[00:36:41.920] >> Where are [laughter] the aliens? Um
[00:36:44.560] >> he said it just like that and they said
[00:36:46.720] do you think the aliens are real? He's
[00:36:48.720] oh yes the aliens are real and he says
[00:36:51.040] it. Okay. So bango because New York
[00:36:53.680] Times covers it. Washington Post covers
[00:36:55.440] it and all the people start talking
[00:36:57.119] about it. Yeah.
[00:36:57.839] >> And on the 19th, Trump says, "Well,
[00:37:00.640] because of the a widespread popular
[00:37:03.200] interest in this particular subject,
[00:37:05.200] what I'm going to do some undesated time
[00:37:07.760] in the future, I am going to be
[00:37:09.599] contacting the Secretary of Defense uh
[00:37:11.839] and the heads of the other executive
[00:37:13.359] branch agencies, and I'm going to direct
[00:37:15.680] them to begin the process of identifying
[00:37:19.839] the documents uh that all relate to UFOs
[00:37:24.560] and extraterrestrial life and
[00:37:26.560] intelligence.
[00:37:27.839] uh for a potential uh release. Yes.
[00:37:30.720] Okay. Now, that's not a that's not a
[00:37:32.880] ordering of them to release. And he
[00:37:34.480] hasn't even issued the executive order.
[00:37:36.400] Uh and when when when Pete Hegth heard
[00:37:39.920] about it as the Secretary of Defense, he
[00:37:41.839] said, "Well, I've never heard about
[00:37:42.960] this." He said, "Up until even hearing
[00:37:44.720] him say that publicly, this issue wasn't
[00:37:47.119] even on my bingo card." That was what he
[00:37:49.760] said, which means they hadn't done
[00:37:51.520] squat. Of course,
[00:37:52.720] >> you know, in the face of a direct order
[00:37:54.800] from the Congress of the United States,
[00:37:56.880] both House and Senate, ordering them to
[00:37:59.359] go through this whole process of
[00:38:00.800] identifying all the documents, codifying
[00:38:02.960] them, putting them into this kind of
[00:38:04.720] digital format, and preparing to turn it
[00:38:06.880] over to the National Archives, but they
[00:38:08.640] hadn't done anything, and he admitted it
[00:38:10.160] publicly. Okay? So that that everybody's
[00:38:12.800] all excited about, oh, the president of
[00:38:14.480] the United States is getting ready to
[00:38:16.160] order, you know. I I wouldn't hold my
[00:38:18.400] breath on that, you know. Uh but the
[00:38:20.640] bottom line is that he was just
[00:38:22.320] responding to the building citizen
[00:38:24.640] pressure. So what we've done, uh myself
[00:38:27.599] as the attorney for Luisando that we put
[00:38:29.920] together a 501c3
[00:38:32.240] organization called the new paradigm
[00:38:34.560] institute. Yeah. Uh and we've organized
[00:38:36.800] this thing called Citizens for
[00:38:38.079] Disclosure. and we've organized people
[00:38:40.160] in 35 states now. Uh we have we have
[00:38:43.680] they're not chapters officially, but
[00:38:45.280] they're groups. Okay? And we're going to
[00:38:47.280] get it done in all 50 states probably by
[00:38:49.839] around Easter. Okay? And then we're
[00:38:51.680] going into all 435 of the congressional
[00:38:54.160] districts. And what we're demanding,
[00:38:56.079] we're demanding that the people insist
[00:38:59.200] that all the candidates for all in both
[00:39:02.240] political parties, those who are
[00:39:03.839] incumbents and those who are people that
[00:39:05.920] are trying to get the seat, all of them
[00:39:08.720] be required to sign a pledge card saying
[00:39:12.000] that if they're elected, they will in
[00:39:14.400] fact give full support to having a bill
[00:39:17.280] passed uh basically to have Congress
[00:39:19.920] itself take over the process and not
[00:39:23.119] wait for the president to do But the
[00:39:25.280] very first step that they would take is
[00:39:26.880] they would pass a statute which Anna
[00:39:28.800] Paulina Luna is drafting right now
[00:39:32.480] >> isn't isn't a tough one. Uh but it's a
[00:39:35.200] it's a direct order to the president
[00:39:38.720] >> to issue the executive order [snorts]
[00:39:41.119] >> that he's promised he was going to do
[00:39:42.880] sometime in the future. It's a direct
[00:39:45.359] command from the United States Congress
[00:39:46.880] to the president of the United States to
[00:39:48.640] perform the duty, an administrative
[00:39:50.560] duty. And if he doesn't do it, they can
[00:39:52.800] bring a legal cause of action uh in
[00:39:54.960] federal court seeking a declaratory
[00:39:57.040] judgment in in a specific performance uh
[00:40:00.160] mandate that he's to perform his
[00:40:02.079] administrative duty that he has no
[00:40:03.520] discretion in this. Okay. So that's
[00:40:05.839] >> doesn't that feel like a fox guarding
[00:40:07.520] the hen house kind of thing to you with
[00:40:09.119] with all these Republicans in Congress
[00:40:11.200] being the the ones who are supposed to
[00:40:12.960] be holding the president accountable?
[00:40:14.480] >> Well, it's no there's no doubt about
[00:40:16.079] that. the the challenge is that our
[00:40:18.160] democratic system has got that structure
[00:40:20.720] in place, right? And so as an attorney,
[00:40:22.640] what you have to do is you have to know
[00:40:24.079] what the actual structure is that you've
[00:40:26.079] got and you got to do everything you can
[00:40:27.920] to exhaust your administrative remedies.
[00:40:30.640] That's what we're engaged. That's what
[00:40:31.839] the new paradigm institute is doing
[00:40:33.280] right now and the citizens movement is
[00:40:35.200] doing in coordination with other groups.
[00:40:37.359] You know, that we we've got we've got
[00:40:38.960] the Saul Foundation which is, you know,
[00:40:41.119] with Gary Nolan and stuff over at
[00:40:42.960] Stanford. We've got the uh UAP uh uh
[00:40:46.400] disclosure fund. We've got uh the uh uh
[00:40:50.480] several of the other uh MUON.
[00:40:52.640] >> Yeah.
[00:40:53.040] >> MUON has the Mutual UFO Network has been
[00:40:56.079] around since you know dirt,
[00:40:58.079] >> you know, and and they've been working
[00:40:59.680] on this thing for decades. Okay. So,
[00:41:02.173] [clears throat] all of us are working
[00:41:03.040] together
[00:41:04.079] >> to put pressure on uh and the New
[00:41:06.400] Paradigm Institute because it's
[00:41:08.160] basically run by lawyers. Yeah. uh that
[00:41:10.640] knows enough to get it down onto the
[00:41:12.480] grassroots level uh and get the people
[00:41:14.640] trained up uh so we can give them all
[00:41:16.640] the information. We put together the
[00:41:18.240] technology for being able to respond to
[00:41:21.040] them, be able to deliver materials to
[00:41:23.040] them uh and help instruct them on how
[00:41:25.359] how to do all of this. And that's what
[00:41:27.119] we're doing right now. And so this is
[00:41:29.359] part of the pressure that was referred
[00:41:31.760] to by Trump when he said in light of the
[00:41:34.480] widespread public interest in this
[00:41:36.240] subject, you know, well, he doesn't give
[00:41:38.000] a about widespread public interest.
[00:41:40.160] What they what they're concerned about
[00:41:41.520] is major pressure, you know, threatening
[00:41:43.359] to throw people out of office if they
[00:41:45.359] don't do it because that's their job.
[00:41:47.280] >> And also, it seems like he just didn't
[00:41:48.880] want Obama to steal his thunder in a way
[00:41:51.359] from that interview. He seemed like, oh
[00:41:52.720] well, you're going to say that? Well,
[00:41:53.760] I'm going to come out and I'll be the
[00:41:55.599] one to do more. And you know that's one
[00:41:57.680] of the things that even though of course
[00:41:59.119] I think anybody again with what did you
[00:42:01.280] say an IQ above room temperature
[00:42:03.119] >> political IQ or even an IQ IQ period I
[00:42:06.960] >> I think everybody would be would
[00:42:09.839] question Trump's motivations right but
[00:42:11.359] the but the one thing I would not
[00:42:13.280] question is that if he has an
[00:42:14.960] opportunity to to elevate his own legacy
[00:42:17.359] and elevate his own ego through
[00:42:20.079] disclosure that also would be a major
[00:42:22.640] consideration toward maybe him really
[00:42:25.119] meaning it at least as far it could
[00:42:26.800] bolster his own legacy
[00:42:28.720] >> except for what might happen to him.
[00:42:30.480] >> Very true. And and do you think that's a
[00:42:33.040] good that's a good point is that if you
[00:42:36.000] believe what's put forth in the
[00:42:38.079] narrative um you know portrayed in Age
[00:42:40.880] of Disclosure, one of the things seems
[00:42:43.040] to be that this shadowy group, you know,
[00:42:45.040] that they call the legacy program.
[00:42:47.040] >> Yeah.
[00:42:47.599] >> Even though all of us from the outside
[00:42:49.200] looking in that are interested in this
[00:42:50.560] topic, we're like, "What the hell is
[00:42:52.000] this? some nebulous consortium of
[00:42:55.359] military-industrial complex entities and
[00:42:58.800] uh intelligence agencies, but if they're
[00:43:02.240] so strong, where's this big counter
[00:43:04.319] push? Where's this big counter uh
[00:43:06.560] narrative? Because it seems like the
[00:43:07.839] disclosure narrative really is taking
[00:43:09.520] over. So, you knowing what you know, how
[00:43:13.440] real and how organized do you think this
[00:43:15.440] legacy program is? And who do you think
[00:43:17.920] they really are? And what is their main
[00:43:19.680] tactic for for fighting this?
[00:43:21.839] >> It's a it's actually a a uh a like four
[00:43:25.839] tiered operation going on. Okay.
[00:43:28.480] >> You you have you have the uh the progeny
[00:43:32.560] of the original Majestic Group, the
[00:43:35.520] whatever they call it, but it's MJ12
[00:43:37.599] because there's tons of documents that
[00:43:39.440] have been Do you think that's real?
[00:43:40.720] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:41.440] >> Yeah.
[00:43:42.319] >> Uh it's not that they haven't been
[00:43:44.000] salted with some some bogus documents
[00:43:47.680] that have been put in there as a counter
[00:43:49.760] intelligence myth to try to discredit
[00:43:52.079] the documents as a whole. But it's very
[00:43:54.240] clear that that almost immediately after
[00:43:56.720] the July uh 1947 crash of the Roswell
[00:44:01.760] UFO that Truman uh convened a group of
[00:44:06.000] private and and official people. Some of
[00:44:08.640] them uh they put together these 12
[00:44:10.560] people. Uh we've got the names of them,
[00:44:13.680] >> you know. I' I've got them here. I carry
[00:44:16.880] them around with me. Okay. Yeah. Uh and
[00:44:19.200] and they they he appointed them to take
[00:44:22.079] charge of this whole issue uh and to
[00:44:24.560] keep it secret uh and to try to figure
[00:44:26.800] out, you know, what advantage we could
[00:44:29.040] gain as a nation state uh by having
[00:44:32.319] access to this debris and technology,
[00:44:35.040] right? uh in the that what the the
[00:44:37.520] program was is that they were to keep it
[00:44:39.440] secret but they were given you know un
[00:44:42.319] exeicio authority to give directives to
[00:44:45.920] actual military people and intelligence
[00:44:48.640] people and the central intelligence
[00:44:50.560] agency became a major part of this they
[00:44:52.800] have a thing called the operations
[00:44:54.319] directorate uh inside the central
[00:44:56.240] intelligence agency that's the action
[00:44:58.000] arm kinetic projects they call them uh
[00:45:01.520] and uh and they became part of this uh
[00:45:04.800] in fact the that uh uh the first uh
[00:45:08.640] military commander of the Central
[00:45:10.480] Intelligence Agency uh was a member of
[00:45:13.200] this. Okay. Uh and and that they their
[00:45:17.040] job was to keep it secret to try to
[00:45:19.280] figure out how to give directives to
[00:45:21.359] different parts of the United States
[00:45:23.440] government executive branch structures
[00:45:25.680] to to take advantage of this technology.
[00:45:28.800] Uh, and not only that, but to go get
[00:45:31.440] more of them, to go get some more of the
[00:45:34.560] craft that were functional, not a crash
[00:45:36.560] debris, you know, but one that's whole
[00:45:38.720] and is intact and and is operational. Uh
[00:45:42.640] and so that's what they were overseeing
[00:45:44.319] but they were utilizing uh the author
[00:45:47.119] the authority that the president had
[00:45:48.880] given them off the record completely
[00:45:50.880] classified uh to direct activities on
[00:45:53.839] the part of the central intelligence
[00:45:55.280] agency and the military to to go recover
[00:46:00.079] craft to bring down craft to develop
[00:46:03.040] some sort of a weapon system by means of
[00:46:05.119] which they could disable the craft and
[00:46:06.800] and force them to land and seize them
[00:46:09.359] which is what they were doing. and that
[00:46:11.599] as they grew older and older, but from
[00:46:14.160] 1947 on, you know, you figured these
[00:46:17.119] guys are, you know, 55, 60 year old
[00:46:20.560] guys, most of them. Uh, and so that, you
[00:46:23.200] know, in another 20 years from 1947 to,
[00:46:26.880] you know, to 1967,
[00:46:29.359] >> you know, they were getting losing their
[00:46:32.480] steam and energy. And so the the
[00:46:34.880] protocol was that each of those 12
[00:46:37.040] people had to personally handpick their
[00:46:40.400] own successor.
[00:46:41.680] >> Okay?
[00:46:42.800] >> So that the president wasn't involved in
[00:46:44.720] anymore that they had become a kind of
[00:46:46.560] semiautonomous
[00:46:48.160] operation that was running. And so they
[00:46:50.400] would handpick their successor. And so
[00:46:52.880] those successors coming on around 1967
[00:46:55.920] or so, right? Uh that they end up now
[00:47:00.560] this is now 2025,
[00:47:02.720] >> right? So you've got guys like Bobby
[00:47:04.880] Rayinman who's one of them who's 94
[00:47:07.520] years old.
[00:47:08.240] >> Yeah. Right. And fill people in on who
[00:47:09.760] he is.
[00:47:10.319] >> Bobby Rayinman was the former director
[00:47:12.079] of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Also
[00:47:14.319] served as the head of the Central
[00:47:15.440] Intelligence Agency for a period of
[00:47:17.040] time. Uh and that that when he quote
[00:47:19.520] retired, you know, people all said,
[00:47:21.599] "Well, I wonder what old Bobby Ray is
[00:47:23.440] doing." Well, what he's doing is he's on
[00:47:25.599] MJ12, right? Wow. And so there's this
[00:47:28.319] whole second generation of the MJ12
[00:47:31.440] people who are now in their 90s.
[00:47:33.920] >> So So do you think this is part of this
[00:47:35.520] the sort of unseen motivation behind
[00:47:37.920] disclosure too is that a lot of those
[00:47:39.520] people are aging out. So people kind of
[00:47:41.839] know there's this opportunity with this
[00:47:43.760] generation literally dying off right
[00:47:46.079] now. There's there's a there's a
[00:47:48.079] possibility to to shake up this system
[00:47:50.800] and shake up this invisible hierarchy.
[00:47:52.720] >> Yeah. They they've be because because
[00:47:54.960] some of them have been holding on.
[00:47:56.640] they're they're doing making the same
[00:47:58.240] mistake that Ruth Bader Ginsburgg made
[00:48:00.400] at the Supreme Court justice. You know,
[00:48:02.319] she was getting 90 years old. Uh but she
[00:48:04.800] was feeling chipper and sharp and so she
[00:48:07.119] wouldn't stand down so Obama could
[00:48:09.599] appoint somebody to replace her, you
[00:48:11.920] know, that would be more progressive and
[00:48:13.680] more supportive of constitutional
[00:48:15.200] rights, etc. Um and she just hung on and
[00:48:17.920] then died with her boots on
[00:48:19.839] >> or with a robe on in that case, you
[00:48:21.760] know, and and so so Trump gets to
[00:48:24.319] replace her, right? uh you know and so
[00:48:27.040] the so the the bottom line is they're
[00:48:28.880] making that same mistake inside the MJ12
[00:48:31.599] group. Okay. So what's happened now is
[00:48:34.079] there has arisen uh an insurgency group
[00:48:37.920] which isn't I'm not talking about Lou
[00:48:39.520] Alzando and Chris Melon in and JT I'm
[00:48:42.720] talking about another group of people uh
[00:48:45.200] that have uh occupied extremely high
[00:48:48.319] positions uh in the defense department
[00:48:51.280] uh inside the central intelligence
[00:48:52.960] agency uh inside some of the private
[00:48:55.119] aerospace corporations uh and uh inside
[00:48:58.480] the the military services you know And
[00:49:02.079] I've got their names too here. Wow.
[00:49:04.079] Right here.
[00:49:04.800] >> Are those names Are those names private
[00:49:06.480] or can those names
[00:49:07.440] >> They're not public at all. They're not
[00:49:09.040] public at all, but there's 24 of them.
[00:49:10.640] >> Wow.
[00:49:11.040] >> Okay. And I happen to know who they are.
[00:49:13.359] Okay. And what they've done is they've
[00:49:15.119] formed an association
[00:49:17.200] uh and that they're working to try to
[00:49:20.800] drag the program back into the
[00:49:23.839] government.
[00:49:24.640] >> And and what's their motivation? their
[00:49:26.960] their motivation is to uh tap off some
[00:49:30.480] of this pressure, you know, to figure
[00:49:32.160] out how much information they can make
[00:49:34.079] public and kind of ellay uh the demand
[00:49:37.359] on the part of the citizenry to get all
[00:49:39.920] the information and to get it right
[00:49:41.599] away, right? Because the the regular
[00:49:44.319] citizens are just fed up with this,
[00:49:46.160] right? And that they've lost their
[00:49:47.839] confidence in the governing structures
[00:49:49.920] and so that they aren't willing to just
[00:49:51.520] sit back and let them handle the program
[00:49:53.520] anymore. And so what's happening is
[00:49:55.200] they're saying, "Look, we've got to do
[00:49:56.480] something here. We've got to release
[00:49:58.160] some kind of information here." And so
[00:50:00.640] what they have done is they've started
[00:50:02.720] giving the green light.
[00:50:05.040] This group, not the MJ12 group, but this
[00:50:08.559] group, the association, let's call them.
[00:50:10.800] Okay? I I know what their real name is.
[00:50:13.920] But but that they they are
[00:50:16.000] >> That has to be private, too. That has to
[00:50:17.440] be secret. No, I that I'm I'm having to
[00:50:20.319] have these discussions with Eric Brosen
[00:50:22.240] and the people to decide what they're
[00:50:23.680] going to do about this because what what
[00:50:25.440] I'm trying to do is
[00:50:26.240] >> so he so he must be part of that.
[00:50:28.079] >> He's got we we need to have Congress be
[00:50:30.079] made part of this.
[00:50:31.040] >> Okay. So, they're not currently part of
[00:50:32.480] it.
[00:50:32.960] >> No. Okay. No, that uh that they they
[00:50:35.839] still think they're dealing with some
[00:50:37.040] amorphous group of people that they
[00:50:38.960] don't can't get the names of. Right.
[00:50:41.280] uh and and Lou is telling them and and
[00:50:43.920] Jake and the Jay and the other people we
[00:50:46.559] can't tell you who they are
[00:50:48.079] >> you know uh who you know for example
[00:50:50.319] Eric Burlesen asked the question on uh
[00:50:52.640] in November of of 2023
[00:50:56.240] >> November 13th when when Lou Alzando
[00:50:58.720] appeared before the House Oversight
[00:51:00.319] Committee and [clears throat] Eric
[00:51:02.160] Berles pursuant to my proddding said
[00:51:06.640] okay uh Mr. Alzando said, "You and I
[00:51:09.920] have security clearances that if we both
[00:51:12.079] got into a skiff." Yeah.
[00:51:14.000] >> Uh would you be able to provide to me as
[00:51:17.200] a skeptic definitive proof a that we are
[00:51:20.400] in possession of at least one or more uh
[00:51:23.280] nonhuman extraterrestrial spacecraft and
[00:51:26.160] the bodies of beings from the craft who
[00:51:29.520] have been established by DNA testing
[00:51:31.839] stuff to be non-human and could you
[00:51:35.040] provide that for me? And Lou loose said
[00:51:38.400] no. Uh it's not that I don't know it but
[00:51:42.079] I can't tell you because I'm not
[00:51:44.160] authorized to tell you that
[00:51:46.079] >> which by implicit two things. One is he
[00:51:49.760] had been authorized to tell them the
[00:51:51.920] other stuff
[00:51:52.720] >> right
[00:51:53.119] >> that he was telling them right. Uh but
[00:51:55.359] secondly he had been told not to tell
[00:51:57.359] them anything more. And the question is
[00:51:59.920] by whom?
[00:52:00.800] >> Yeah.
[00:52:01.200] >> Right. And when they said when they were
[00:52:03.200] asked that you know uh AOC asked the
[00:52:06.319] question number of other people said who
[00:52:08.800] are these people we can't tell you who
[00:52:10.800] they are.
[00:52:11.200] >> Yeah you know
[00:52:12.160] >> because a skeptic could say okay if
[00:52:14.400] we're never going to learn who this
[00:52:16.559] association is what
[00:52:19.119] >> you are you are going to very very soon.
[00:52:21.040] Okay. But but you know people within you
[00:52:23.599] know and and a lot of these people who I
[00:52:25.520] think um
[00:52:27.359] >> there's a certain there there's a lot I
[00:52:29.280] don't want to like typ cast you know UFO
[00:52:31.599] Twitter and people who are interested in
[00:52:33.040] this topic but of course you have like
[00:52:34.640] people of various depths right like
[00:52:36.559] maybe maybe some of these people like
[00:52:38.079] just saw Age of Disclosure and this is
[00:52:39.760] all new for them and then you have more
[00:52:41.200] old school people who have been watching
[00:52:43.440] this for for decades. And I think those
[00:52:45.920] kinds of people are going to be
[00:52:48.079] knee-jerk skeptical of anybody coming
[00:52:50.079] out of the military-industrial complex
[00:52:51.839] to begin with
[00:52:52.640] >> because they don't know any better.
[00:52:54.160] >> And then but but but I think you and I
[00:52:56.160] both you're you're sort of like a
[00:52:57.920] counterultural guy, right? I mean, you
[00:52:59.520] fought against the government for so
[00:53:01.680] much of your career, but but yet you do
[00:53:03.760] seem to trust a lot of these
[00:53:04.960] whistleblowers coming out. And though a
[00:53:07.520] lot of the public or at least people um
[00:53:10.000] who are interested in this in the UFO
[00:53:11.920] disclosure discourse have become inc I
[00:53:14.000] would say increasingly um wary of a lot
[00:53:17.440] of these mainstream whistleblowers and
[00:53:19.599] and seem to trust their credibility less
[00:53:22.160] and less. But it seems like what you
[00:53:24.079] know leads you to still largely trust
[00:53:26.960] what they're doing and trust that they
[00:53:28.640] have
[00:53:29.599] >> at least their heart going toward the
[00:53:31.760] right direction. What it is is I I have
[00:53:33.200] I think a more sophisticated and tutored
[00:53:35.680] understanding of what the dynamic really
[00:53:37.680] is.
[00:53:38.400] >> Uh uh and so that that this this group
[00:53:42.640] Lou everybody recognizes Lou and Chris
[00:53:45.599] Melon and and Jay Stratton and and uh
[00:53:48.720] and Eric, you know, and Hal Putoff and
[00:53:51.520] uh etc. that they pe people can tell us
[00:53:56.079] something's not quite right there
[00:53:57.702] [laughter]
[00:53:58.240] that they aren't coming clean, you know.
[00:54:00.880] uh uh but the but the fact of the matter
[00:54:03.040] is they know that they're releasing some
[00:54:04.800] information and as a matter of law the
[00:54:07.920] federal rules of civil procedure when
[00:54:09.839] someone makes a public declaration which
[00:54:11.920] is contrary to their own interests
[00:54:14.079] >> yes
[00:54:14.880] >> that has a higher level of credibility
[00:54:17.040] so when you have these guys coming
[00:54:18.480] forward saying here's the program I was
[00:54:20.480] involved in the program UFOs are real
[00:54:22.720] you know that's contrary to what their
[00:54:24.880] previous interests have been in keeping
[00:54:26.319] it secret so that therefore you can
[00:54:28.319] start to suggest that that has some high
[00:54:30.000] level of credibility. Now, I was in a
[00:54:32.079] position as Lou's attorney to get to
[00:54:34.000] meet everybody uh and to be able to in a
[00:54:36.559] sense vet them, talk to them, and and
[00:54:38.880] discuss the stuff with them and and and
[00:54:41.119] probe the barriers where they were uh
[00:54:44.480] and then realized that they were getting
[00:54:46.240] authorization from somewhere, which 95%
[00:54:48.880] of the people can't quite tell what's
[00:54:51.040] going on there, right? But I could tell
[00:54:52.800] that there was somebody giving them the
[00:54:54.319] authority to do this. And the question
[00:54:55.920] is, who was it? Uh and it turns out that
[00:54:58.319] it's in my opinion it's not really the
[00:55:00.800] MJ12 people. It's this other group. It's
[00:55:04.559] this association that is trying to sort
[00:55:07.200] of drag the program back into the
[00:55:09.920] official uh constitutional structures in
[00:55:13.040] military and intelligence structures
[00:55:15.280] rather than have this kind of rump
[00:55:16.880] group.
[00:55:17.520] >> Yeah.
[00:55:17.920] >> That was appointed originally by
[00:55:19.680] President Truman kind of in the the
[00:55:21.920] immediate aftermath of the shocking
[00:55:24.400] discovery of this craft. Right. uh and
[00:55:26.960] then the handpicked uh successors who
[00:55:30.559] are not authorized by Congress aren't
[00:55:33.040] aren't sanctioned by Congress. So what
[00:55:35.040] they're what the the association is
[00:55:37.200] trying to do is that because they've all
[00:55:40.000] come through the government and they've
[00:55:42.000] come but they've come out of these
[00:55:43.280] private aerospace corporations as well.
[00:55:45.359] I mean you get people like the chief of
[00:55:47.200] intelligence for the MITER corporation.
[00:55:49.359] >> Yeah. is one of them,
[00:55:50.960] >> you know, but you also have the former
[00:55:52.960] director of the national uh geospatial
[00:55:56.319] intelligence agency.
[00:55:58.240] >> Okay. You also have the the former
[00:56:00.400] commander of the United States Air Force
[00:56:02.400] Department of Material,
[00:56:04.559] you know, but they're retired.
[00:56:06.079] >> Yeah.
[00:56:06.400] >> So, they're retired. Uh all of them,
[00:56:08.880] every single one of them are all retired
[00:56:11.040] now. uh but but they because they've got
[00:56:13.280] the the rolodex uh and they've got all
[00:56:16.160] the credibility they've got all the
[00:56:17.839] knowledge about this what they've done
[00:56:19.599] is they're they've assembled themselves
[00:56:22.240] into this association so that that it's
[00:56:24.960] got kind of a a jeritical structure to
[00:56:28.000] it uh in chain of authority in it.
[00:56:30.079] >> So so those people you just named are
[00:56:31.839] part of the association.
[00:56:33.119] >> Yes.
[00:56:33.520] >> Okay. Wow. Wow.
[00:56:34.720] >> Is that the first time you said that?
[00:56:36.160] >> Yes.
[00:56:36.559] >> Oh wow. Okay. Well damn. This is
[00:56:38.559] breaking news. You know,
[00:56:39.599] >> speaking of breaking news, you know, you
[00:56:40.880] just me I want to go back to this, but
[00:56:43.040] you also just mentioned um who in the
[00:56:46.000] Air Force was it
[00:56:47.359] >> the director of Air Force material.
[00:56:50.079] >> So, speaking of high ranking Air Force
[00:56:53.599] people,
[00:56:54.319] >> as you as I'm sure you're well aware,
[00:56:56.400] Major General McCasslin also just kind
[00:56:58.640] of fell off the face of the earth.
[00:57:00.079] >> Yeah. Yeah, he has.
[00:57:01.599] >> I'm sure that's not the first time his
[00:57:03.119] name has come across your
[00:57:05.040] >> your knowledge. No. Second of all, what
[00:57:07.920] did you think when you heard about that?
[00:57:09.280] >> Well, the first thing is I was
[00:57:10.400] absolutely astonished that he didn't
[00:57:11.839] have security,
[00:57:12.720] >> right?
[00:57:13.280] >> I mean, what are we talking about here?
[00:57:14.880] You know, we we we got a guy who was the
[00:57:16.960] commander basically of all of the waved,
[00:57:20.640] uh, unagnowledged special access
[00:57:22.720] programs, uh, weapons development
[00:57:24.640] programs in the United States Pentagon.
[00:57:26.720] uh and the guy who was in charge at uh
[00:57:29.280] of the laboratory, the Air Force
[00:57:31.040] laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force
[00:57:32.960] Base, you know, uh and so he's been in
[00:57:35.520] charge of all this stuff that he's been
[00:57:37.119] overseeing the reverse engineering
[00:57:38.880] program uh and the development of
[00:57:40.799] weapons systems in the United States Air
[00:57:42.559] Force. This guy is an absolute gold mine
[00:57:46.079] of information. It's just I was just
[00:57:48.799] thunderruck by the fact that he didn't
[00:57:50.799] have security even though he's retire.
[00:57:52.799] He's only 68 years old, right? You know,
[00:57:54.960] but in in the week before he
[00:57:57.119] disappeared, he just got through doing a
[00:57:59.119] 60-mile bicycle marathon. Really? You
[00:58:02.079] know, he's got no symptoms at all of of
[00:58:04.720] this of uh of dementia. Uh he's healthy
[00:58:07.680] as a horse, you know, and all of a
[00:58:09.680] sudden he just no disappears without his
[00:58:12.160] wallet, without his wristwatch, without
[00:58:13.920] any credit cards, without any note left
[00:58:16.160] or anything. Wow.
[00:58:17.280] >> And he's gone,
[00:58:18.720] >> you know? I mean, it's like bingo. Uh
[00:58:21.440] and so you say to yourself, you know,
[00:58:23.200] what are the range of possibilities
[00:58:25.119] there? Now, that's that's part of what
[00:58:27.040] how I run investigations.
[00:58:29.599] I was extremely privileged. I got to to
[00:58:32.160] have not only constitutional law from
[00:58:34.240] Lawrence Tribe uh at Harvard University
[00:58:37.040] but people don't understand he's a he is
[00:58:39.359] a just a little bit Lawrence Tribe
[00:58:42.079] Lawrence Tribe was a Suma cumla
[00:58:44.559] mathematics graduate really from Harvard
[00:58:46.960] College right and then went and got his
[00:58:49.520] PhD at Harvard in mathematics suma cumla
[00:58:53.440] >> wow
[00:58:53.760] >> right at the age of 26 years old he was
[00:58:57.599] the director of the United States Bureau
[00:58:59.520] of Statistics
[00:59:00.480] >> Wow. Wow.
[00:59:02.160] >> So multi-disiplinary super genius.
[00:59:04.000] >> Totally. And then he got bored by that
[00:59:05.760] after a couple years and said he's going
[00:59:07.359] to go to Harvard Law School. Uh and he
[00:59:09.520] goes to Harvard Law School, becomes the
[00:59:11.280] captain of the varsity debating team for
[00:59:14.480] Harvard, which is like like a football
[00:59:17.119] team, you know, discipline and in
[00:59:19.520] schedule and stuff, and still ends up
[00:59:21.520] number two in his class at Harvard Law
[00:59:23.200] School. Okay. And so he goes and and and
[00:59:26.319] clerks for Justice Trainer at the
[00:59:27.839] California State Supreme Court, writing
[00:59:29.839] some extraordinary opinions for Justice
[00:59:32.559] Trainer, then comes back to serve as law
[00:59:34.720] clerk at the United States Supreme
[00:59:36.160] Court. Uh and he becomes the he becomes
[00:59:38.960] the uh the uh uh uh law clerk there for
[00:59:45.280] Justice Hugo Black.
[00:59:47.040] >> I mean, that rings bells in the legal
[00:59:49.200] field. That's holy you you go
[00:59:51.359] black and then is taken to be a for a
[00:59:54.960] second term as a law clerk for Justice
[00:59:57.520] Harland. I mean, these are two of the
[00:59:59.760] the giants of of the Supreme Court
[01:00:02.319] history, right? And he's, as far as
[01:00:04.720] anybody knows, the only person who's
[01:00:06.559] ever been clerking for two different
[01:00:08.640] justices sequentially, right? And then
[01:00:11.119] comes to Harvard Law School. [snorts]
[01:00:13.200] >> I happen to been in the very first class
[01:00:14.640] he ever taught.
[01:00:15.599] >> Yeah.
[01:00:15.920] >> Which was a class on evidence.
[01:00:17.680] >> Okay. uh of teaching people how to
[01:00:20.079] evaluate evidence to and he started
[01:00:22.880] going into base theorem and and
[01:00:24.960] probability projections and decision
[01:00:26.720] tree analysis and the whole nine yards.
[01:00:28.559] And so I I'm the one that stood up in
[01:00:30.400] the class in his first class after about
[01:00:32.079] the I don't know fourth or fifth session
[01:00:33.760] and I said, "Excuse me." I said,
[01:00:35.359] "Professor Tribe, I said, "Look at uh
[01:00:37.280] all of us here are pretty smart folks.
[01:00:39.920] You know, that's how we got here to
[01:00:41.200] Harvard Law School." He says, "And and I
[01:00:43.440] think I'm a comparatively smart person.
[01:00:45.359] I don't understand a word that
[01:00:46.960] you're [laughter] saying, you know, you
[01:00:48.400] got to calm down here. You got to get
[01:00:49.920] down, get your feet on the ground, you
[01:00:51.920] know. And so I established this kind of
[01:00:53.599] interesting relationship with Larry
[01:00:55.200] Tribe right on early on.
[01:00:56.960] >> And I became the co-founder with Mark
[01:00:58.960] Green of the Harvard Civil Rights Law
[01:01:00.400] Review,
[01:01:01.119] >> you know, with with Larry Tribe as our
[01:01:02.880] adviser. So we put together the Harvard
[01:01:04.880] Civil Rights Law Review. We're the ones
[01:01:06.400] that initiated the case that established
[01:01:08.400] the right of journalists to protect our
[01:01:09.839] confidential news sources. Went all the
[01:01:11.920] way to the United States Supreme Court.
[01:01:13.839] Okay. And uh then because I had done
[01:01:16.240] that case, I was the one that actually
[01:01:18.079] had drafted that case. You know, I ended
[01:01:20.000] up getting recruited by the number one
[01:01:22.799] corporate litigation law firm on Wall
[01:01:24.640] Street who represents NBC News. Right.
[01:01:27.920] That's why I was the guy that got the
[01:01:29.440] call from Jim Goodell at the New York
[01:01:31.520] Times when they got the Pentagon Papers.
[01:01:33.920] >> Okay.
[01:01:34.400] >> Okay. So that I was one of the very few
[01:01:36.480] people that ever got to read all 47
[01:01:38.319] volumes of the Pentagon papers because
[01:01:40.720] we were in the process of trying to
[01:01:42.079] figure out how to what was going to get
[01:01:43.520] published. Yeah. You know, and where the
[01:01:45.359] lines were going to be. I was the one
[01:01:47.040] that got the call from Whitney North
[01:01:48.559] Seymour, the United States attorney for
[01:01:49.920] the Southern District of New York, uh at
[01:01:52.240] the behest of
[01:01:54.319] Mitchell, the attorney general of the
[01:01:56.079] Nixon administration, calling me uh
[01:01:58.720] asking us to please voluntarily stop
[01:02:00.799] publishing these these these documents.
[01:02:03.839] And he said, you know, so I'm calling
[01:02:05.040] you. He said, Mr. Sheen. He said, he
[01:02:07.359] called me. He said, oh, Mr. Sheen says,
[01:02:08.960] this is Whitney North Seymour. And I
[01:02:10.640] said, Woody Norse Seymour. Whitney North
[01:02:12.799] Seymour. Am I supposed to know who you
[01:02:14.079] are? [laughter] He said, I'm the United
[01:02:16.319] States attorney for the Southern
[01:02:17.520] District of New York. Oh, right, right,
[01:02:19.200] right. That that Wood Whitney Norse
[01:02:20.319] Seymour. And he was totally pissed right
[01:02:22.079] from the very beginning. Right. I'm a
[01:02:23.520] first year associate. Yeah. You know,
[01:02:25.200] but I happened to have gotten into the
[01:02:26.799] firm because of my having drafted the
[01:02:28.480] bill and stuff and written the a lot of
[01:02:30.559] the briefs for the the right of
[01:02:32.880] journalists to protect our confidential
[01:02:34.240] news sources. And I had written helped
[01:02:36.160] write not only the principal briefs for
[01:02:37.920] NBC, for Paul Papus, the journalist that
[01:02:40.480] we represented,
[01:02:41.760] >> but got to help write the amicus briefs
[01:02:44.160] for NB for CBS and ABC and for the New
[01:02:48.000] York Times and the Washington Post. so
[01:02:50.640] that we were drafting amicus briefs,
[01:02:52.400] friends of the court briefs so that we
[01:02:54.079] could help pick off individual justices
[01:02:56.400] so that we could get the coalition we
[01:02:58.319] needed to win. Right? So that's how I
[01:03:00.640] happened to be have known Jim Goodell.
[01:03:03.440] And so Goodell calls me on the phone and
[01:03:05.839] says he says uh uh Danny said look this
[01:03:09.680] is Jim Goodell. And I said hey what's
[01:03:11.520] up? He said something's come up here. Uh
[01:03:14.720] I'd like to get a chance to come on and
[01:03:16.480] talk with you about this. And I said,
[01:03:18.000] "Well, shouldn't I get Floyd, Floyd
[01:03:19.839] Abrams, you know, our the senior
[01:03:22.160] associate uh on the First Amendment
[01:03:24.079] stuff?" And he said, "Yeah, get get
[01:03:25.280] Floyd to come in there." And I said,
[01:03:26.240] "I'll get Jean Shyman, too, who's my uh
[01:03:30.559] the Cahill Gordon firm [clears throat]
[01:03:32.799] on Wall Street." Little inside
[01:03:34.640] information. You know, they have half of
[01:03:37.359] their partners are Jewish and half of
[01:03:40.160] their partners are Irish Catholic. And
[01:03:42.960] every single time there's a new partner
[01:03:44.640] made, two two of them are made equal.
[01:03:47.440] >> Absolutely. It's this extraordinarily
[01:03:49.440] interesting reality. They they used to
[01:03:51.440] laugh about say the the the Jewish law
[01:03:55.280] the Jewish uh lawyers and partners all
[01:03:57.599] come off the major law reviews of the
[01:03:59.280] major top five or six law schools,
[01:04:01.359] right? And the Irish uh partners,
[01:04:03.680] they'll break a bar stool on you to win
[01:04:05.599] a fight. [laughter]
[01:04:07.440] So, so we we were the we were the number
[01:04:09.599] one corporate litigation law firm in the
[01:04:11.599] in the world at the time and I got
[01:04:13.680] recruited to go there because I had done
[01:04:16.559] a case, right? And so so the bottom line
[01:04:19.200] is I I got right from the very beginning
[01:04:21.680] to get like an inside look at things
[01:04:24.240] that are going on, right? and getting to
[01:04:26.480] read the documents and say, "Holy
[01:04:28.079] mackerel, you know, the our our United
[01:04:30.480] States government is involved in massive
[01:04:32.400] drug smuggling, heroin smuggling, and
[01:04:34.720] our, you know, actually opium smuggling
[01:04:36.720] out of the Golden Triangle, massive
[01:04:38.319] political assassination teams, all this
[01:04:40.400] kind of stuff going on. So, I got this
[01:04:42.960] kind of a, you know, baptism by fire,
[01:04:45.440] you know, right, coming out of Harvard
[01:04:46.720] Law School." And so,
[01:04:48.640] >> reality check on what's going on.
[01:04:50.400] >> Yeah. Get a deep background on what's
[01:04:52.400] happening. and then got tapped got
[01:04:54.880] recruited out of the firm by F. Lee
[01:04:56.960] Bailey when the Watergate burglary took
[01:04:59.039] place, you know. So he he reaches out to
[01:05:01.359] me because he had wanted me to to come
[01:05:03.520] to his firm right out of law school, but
[01:05:05.599] uh they he wouldn't let me do trials. So
[01:05:07.839] I said, "No, I'm I'm going with the
[01:05:09.440] Cahill firm because I'm going to do
[01:05:10.960] trials, right?" And so, so Bailey ends
[01:05:13.440] up calling me the when the Watergate
[01:05:14.960] burglary took place because he got
[01:05:16.720] contacted by James McCord who was the
[01:05:19.839] CIA wiretapping specialist that was
[01:05:21.680] caught inside the headquarters, right?
[01:05:23.760] Uh, and so Lee called me and asked me to
[01:05:26.160] come and join his firm. So I went over
[01:05:28.240] to his firm to do the Watergate case and
[01:05:30.480] got to
[01:05:31.520] >> find out everything about what was going
[01:05:33.039] on in Watergate, why they were there and
[01:05:34.720] who who' ordered them and all that all
[01:05:36.559] the details. Uh but when I really found
[01:05:39.280] out what was going on in the Watergate
[01:05:41.359] burglary, uh I said, "Look, I don't have
[01:05:43.920] anything to do with this. You know, I I
[01:05:46.000] I'm not going to do these kind of things
[01:05:48.000] anymore." And so I left Bailey's firm uh
[01:05:51.599] and went and talked to John RS, the head
[01:05:54.240] of the department of philosophy at
[01:05:55.599] Harvard.
[01:05:56.240] >> Mhm.
[01:05:56.720] >> And uh uh he I had this long
[01:05:59.039] conversation and he asked me to come on
[01:06:00.559] back to Harvard to do the PhD in
[01:06:03.359] comparative social ethics. you know what
[01:06:06.160] what motivates different people,
[01:06:08.240] different ethical standards that people
[01:06:09.680] have. Uh and that's where I got
[01:06:11.520] recruited at the Harvard Divinity
[01:06:14.000] School.
[01:06:14.400] >> Yes.
[01:06:14.880] >> Uh to go to the Jesuit headquarters as
[01:06:17.520] their general counsel uh and in the
[01:06:19.920] social ministry office. And that's
[01:06:21.839] that's how that's where I was when I got
[01:06:23.680] contacted uh right after President
[01:06:25.680] Carter got elected. Uh, and the first
[01:06:27.760] thing he did is he sent for the head of
[01:06:29.760] the CIA to come down to Plains, Georgia
[01:06:33.119] before before Carter had even come to
[01:06:35.920] Washington. He he'd been the former
[01:06:37.599] governor of Georgia. Wasn't a Washington
[01:06:39.440] person, but uh he sent for the head of
[01:06:41.680] the CIA to come down. And on the 19th of
[01:06:44.000] November, he was elected on the 4th of
[01:06:45.680] November of 1976. On the 19th of
[01:06:48.799] November, he has George H. W. Bush, who
[01:06:52.799] was the head of the CIA at
[01:06:53.886] [clears throat] the time, had been had
[01:06:55.760] been selected by Gerald Ford to come in
[01:06:57.920] to take over the CIA because they were
[01:07:00.400] being investigated by the Church
[01:07:01.839] Committee,
[01:07:02.720] >> right? And so,
[01:07:04.880] >> George HW Bush,
[01:07:06.079] >> they brought a lot of crazy things
[01:07:07.280] forward.
[01:07:07.920] >> Yeah, that's right. It goes goes down to
[01:07:10.160] Georgia uh and and tells the president
[01:07:12.960] he's not going to tell him about the UFO
[01:07:15.039] issue because [snorts] he doesn't have
[01:07:17.039] any need to know. Yes. So, President
[01:07:19.760] President Carter rather than take on the
[01:07:21.599] CIA smart,
[01:07:23.839] >> you know, he goes to the chairman,
[01:07:26.160] Democratic chairman of the House Science
[01:07:28.000] and Technology Committee and has them
[01:07:29.760] task the Congressional Research Service
[01:07:32.079] to do a major study and investigation to
[01:07:34.559] find out what kind of documentation
[01:07:36.160] we've got anywhere in the government,
[01:07:38.079] you know, about UFOs and
[01:07:40.160] extraterrestrial intelligence. So,
[01:07:42.480] that's how I got contacted over at the
[01:07:44.319] Jesuit headquarters by Dr. Marshia
[01:07:46.400] Smith, who's the head of the science and
[01:07:48.000] technology division, okay, uh of the the
[01:07:50.720] uh Congressional Research Service and
[01:07:52.960] asked me to come to lunch and I have
[01:07:54.559] lunch with her and she asked me if I'll
[01:07:56.720] become general counsel for the major
[01:07:59.119] investigation mainly because she wanted
[01:08:01.119] me to get at the uh uh Vatican archives.
[01:08:04.480] >> Yes. Yes. This is this is setting the
[01:08:06.319] stage for some of the things I really
[01:08:07.760] wanted to talk to you about is like, you
[01:08:09.680] know, um this interesting overlap
[01:08:11.920] between the Vatican and the UFO
[01:08:14.000] phenomenon and how they seem to have
[01:08:15.520] this enduring interest throughout the
[01:08:17.679] ages and what's going on there. But I'm
[01:08:19.920] also curious too, um
[01:08:22.080] >> how did Carter get wind of
[01:08:25.679] us having knowledge about UFOs and
[01:08:28.400] programs if he couldn't get briefed on
[01:08:30.480] it
[01:08:30.799] >> because he's seen one? Oh. Oh. President
[01:08:33.520] Carter when he was governor of Georgia,
[01:08:36.000] >> he was at a Lions Club meeting outside
[01:08:38.719] outside of uh uh Atlanta. Uh and the the
[01:08:42.640] guys that were there went out to have a
[01:08:44.080] cigarette break and he goes out with him
[01:08:46.239] even though he wasn't smoking
[01:08:48.239] >> and they were out there on the veranda
[01:08:49.920] at this Lions Club meeting and a UFO
[01:08:52.080] came, you know, and it was like it was
[01:08:54.080] like uh treetop level.
[01:08:56.080] >> And we're not talking about, you know,
[01:08:57.359] dancing lights in the sky somewhere.
[01:08:58.880] We're talking about T treetop level the
[01:09:01.040] length of a football field away and they
[01:09:03.600] saw it right there. So he knew
[01:09:05.120] positively that it was real and so the f
[01:09:07.920] the first thing that he did when he got
[01:09:10.239] in he said just like Obama first thing
[01:09:12.960] he did says tell me about the aliens.
[01:09:15.040] Give me give me the UFOs.
[01:09:16.640] >> You have to imagine that pretty much
[01:09:18.239] everybody who gets into office has that
[01:09:20.400] question right and yet nobody has ever
[01:09:23.040] revealed anything of substance and like
[01:09:26.960] why do you think that is? And also I
[01:09:28.799] want to hear the story about how you
[01:09:30.719] eventually became convinced that there's
[01:09:32.880] a there there when it comes to this
[01:09:34.319] phenomenon too because we've kind of
[01:09:35.839] we've kind of jumped right in from this
[01:09:37.679] POV of [laughter] like it's a foregone
[01:09:39.359] conclusion in your mind that all of this
[01:09:41.120] is real but but there must have been a
[01:09:43.040] bit of an intellectual journey there for
[01:09:44.640] you I'm assuming.
[01:09:45.440] >> Well it was I mean I' I'd always been
[01:09:48.560] totally convinced that the UFOs were
[01:09:51.279] real because I was always totally
[01:09:53.040] convinced that there were
[01:09:53.839] extraterrestrial life. I said, you know,
[01:09:56.000] even as soon as I when I was like seven
[01:09:58.400] years old and I when I really found out
[01:10:00.320] what stars were, I realized the stars
[01:10:02.960] are suns of another solar system, right?
[01:10:06.320] Just like us. So they must have planets
[01:10:08.480] orbiting around them and there some of
[01:10:10.480] them have to have beings on them. So I'd
[01:10:13.040] always understood that to be true. So I
[01:10:15.679] decided that I was going to be an
[01:10:17.360] astronomer, you know. Uh when I was 7
[01:10:19.600] years old, I started investigating. Then
[01:10:21.520] I realized that to be an astronomer, you
[01:10:23.199] had to really do a lot of math.
[01:10:24.798] >> [laughter]
[01:10:24.800] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[01:10:25.679] >> And it wasn't that I didn't do well in
[01:10:27.920] math, but I didn't want to have to spend
[01:10:29.120] my life doing it. And so I decided I was
[01:10:31.280] going to become an astronaut. And I
[01:10:33.120] learned that they had just founded uh
[01:10:36.239] the United States Air Force Academy. It
[01:10:38.320] had just begun. So I said, "That's what
[01:10:40.080] you do. You go to the Air Force Academy,
[01:10:41.760] right? And become a pilot and you become
[01:10:43.440] an astronaut." So you could get to
[01:10:45.840] participate in this process, right?
[01:10:47.920] Reaching out to the stars and getting to
[01:10:49.600] meet the people from other planets. So I
[01:10:52.000] spent my whole time preparing to to go
[01:10:54.800] to the US Air Force Academy and I ended
[01:10:57.199] up uh by 1963 being the number one
[01:11:00.719] candidate for the uh senatorial
[01:11:02.960] appointments to the US Air Force Academy
[01:11:05.440] out of New York State, [snorts] right?
[01:11:07.520] Uh and I went to interview Jacob Javitz,
[01:11:10.159] the Republican senator, and uh he has I
[01:11:14.880] go all the way down you because I lived
[01:11:16.400] way up in the woods up in northern New
[01:11:18.480] York. I've been lit by Lake George,
[01:11:20.480] right? And so I ended up going down to
[01:11:22.560] New York City, the first time I'd ever
[01:11:24.000] been there. Uh uh and go down to go down
[01:11:27.199] to New York City uh and going to Jacob
[01:11:29.360] Jabb's New York office, right? Uh and uh
[01:11:33.120] he said to me, Danny, he said, uh why
[01:11:35.520] why do you want to go to the Air Force
[01:11:36.800] Academy? And I said, well, you know,
[01:11:38.719] because I want to become a pilot. I want
[01:11:40.880] to get to be an astronaut. Uh and he
[01:11:43.040] said, oh yes, all young boys here in
[01:11:45.040] 1963 all want to be an astronaut. you
[01:11:46.800] know, John Glenn, you know, going around
[01:11:48.239] the Earth, blah blah. And I said, "No, I
[01:11:51.280] actually I've always wanted to to be an
[01:11:53.360] astronaut." Uh, I said, I said, "So, why
[01:11:56.239] do you want to be an astronaut?" And I
[01:11:57.920] said, "Because, you know, we're at
[01:11:59.679] living at the most important time
[01:12:01.040] probably in the whole history of our
[01:12:02.400] human family. Uh, we're right at the
[01:12:04.480] brink where we're going to be going into
[01:12:05.840] outer space and we're going to get to
[01:12:07.440] meet these other beings that come from
[01:12:09.440] other star systems and stuff." There was
[01:12:11.120] this big long pause and he looked at me.
[01:12:12.719] He said, "You actually believe that
[01:12:14.560] there's other intelligent beings on
[01:12:16.800] these in these other star systems in our
[01:12:18.800] galaxy?" And I said, "Well, sure." I
[01:12:21.520] said, "So do you. I mean, you're a
[01:12:22.960] United States senator."
[01:12:25.320] [laughter] And he was completely floored
[01:12:27.679] by that, you know. And he said, "Uh,
[01:12:30.239] wait a second here. Wait a second." He
[01:12:31.520] says, "Uh, this is I hadn't quite
[01:12:33.679] expected this kind of a conversation
[01:12:35.199] here,
[01:12:35.760] >> right?"
[01:12:36.080] >> I said, "Look, look, I got to level with
[01:12:37.679] you, Danny." He said, uh, you know, I've
[01:12:40.080] already given the appointment, the
[01:12:41.199] senatorial appointment to, uh, the the
[01:12:43.760] son of my principal financial funer for
[01:12:46.239] my campaigns. He says, that's how it
[01:12:48.560] really is here, Danny. He said, you
[01:12:50.159] know, but but look at, he said, I'll
[01:12:52.080] I'll give you the appointment to the
[01:12:53.360] Naval Academy. You know, you can become
[01:12:54.960] a pilot in the Naval Academy. I said,
[01:12:56.560] no. I said, I'm not into boats
[01:12:58.725] [laughter]
[01:12:59.280] into planes, fine. And he said, no, no,
[01:13:01.199] you can become a pilot in in the Navy. I
[01:13:03.040] said, but I have to do all that boat
[01:13:04.239] stuff. I said, I want to go to the Air
[01:13:05.840] Force Academy. He said, well, okay. He
[01:13:07.520] said, I said, "Uh who who's your
[01:13:10.080] congressman anyhow?" And I said, "It's
[01:13:12.080] Carlton King." He said, "Oh, I I know
[01:13:13.679] Carlton." He says, "I'll give him a
[01:13:14.960] call. I hadn't give you his
[01:13:16.320] appointment." He said, "Look, let me
[01:13:17.600] tell you something." He said, "After
[01:13:18.960] you've been at the Air Force Academy for
[01:13:20.400] a year or so, nobody pays any attention
[01:13:22.159] to who the senatorial appointments were
[01:13:24.000] or who the congressional appointments
[01:13:25.440] were." He said, "So you can uh so
[01:13:28.880] Carlton King ended up giving his
[01:13:30.719] appointment to the son of the Republican
[01:13:32.880] mayor of Glenn's Falls who was number
[01:13:35.440] seven in the congressional district out
[01:13:38.239] of the 42 congressional districts in New
[01:13:40.159] York. He was number seven, you know, in
[01:13:42.080] the district, but he got the
[01:13:43.440] appointment." So I said, "Wait a second.
[01:13:45.600] Something's real wrong here." I said,
[01:13:47.679] "This isn't working right. You know,
[01:13:49.840] this this our government isn't there's
[01:13:52.000] something out of tune here with the way
[01:13:53.600] things are going." So, I said I I should
[01:13:56.320] have become a lawyer and help work on
[01:13:59.679] making the government work better to get
[01:14:01.440] it back in tune a little bit and then
[01:14:03.280] I'll get involved in getting ready to go
[01:14:05.600] to outer space. Uh, and but when I came
[01:14:08.880] out because of the peculiar track that I
[01:14:11.040] took through the Harvard Civil Rights
[01:14:12.159] Lview and the Pentagon Papers and all
[01:14:14.560] that, I realized that our government
[01:14:16.400] wasn't just a little out of tune.
[01:14:18.320] >> Oh, yeah.
[01:14:19.120] >> It was playing an entirely different
[01:14:20.719] song.
[01:14:21.440] >> Yeah. than we'd been told,
[01:14:24.480] you know, and so uh so I knew I got it
[01:14:27.199] took longer than I was hoping.
[01:14:29.199] >> So, but but all the time I remained
[01:14:31.280] completely convinced that that there
[01:14:33.679] were extraterrestrial beings and I
[01:14:35.520] closely followed all the UFO
[01:14:37.280] information, Betty and Barney Hill, you
[01:14:39.600] know, and the Andre affair and all that
[01:14:41.120] kind of stuff. So, and uh so I had a
[01:14:44.080] knack for kind of remembering all of it
[01:14:45.920] and kind of figuring out what was going
[01:14:47.600] on. So when I got when I was at Jesuit
[01:14:50.640] headquarters, you know, in in the late
[01:14:53.920] uh actually December of 1976, you know,
[01:14:57.199] when Marcia Smith called me, uh what I
[01:14:59.440] did when she asked if I could do this, I
[01:15:01.760] went to my superior uh William J. uh
[01:15:05.280] Davis, uh Father Davis, and uh asked him
[01:15:08.880] if it would be all right for me to do
[01:15:10.480] this. He checked with the other people
[01:15:12.159] at the staff at the headquarters. They
[01:15:14.480] checked all with the assistant
[01:15:16.000] provincials for social uh uh ministry.
[01:15:19.679] They checked with the with the
[01:15:21.440] provincials.
[01:15:22.640] >> Okay. Uh and so I ended up getting up
[01:15:25.920] the line of the Jesuit order to agree to
[01:15:29.040] have me become general counsel to this
[01:15:31.520] investigation. So when I when
[01:15:34.617] [clears throat]
[01:15:35.280] and Marshall Smith said to me kind of
[01:15:38.159] the same thing that people asked the
[01:15:39.520] question first becomes president said,
[01:15:41.199] "So what is it you want to know?" And I
[01:15:43.120] said, "I want to see I want to see the
[01:15:44.880] classified portions of Project Blue
[01:15:46.640] Book."
[01:15:47.120] >> Mhm.
[01:15:48.320] >> And she says, "Oh." She said, "They're
[01:15:50.320] they're never going to give us that."
[01:15:52.480] And I said, 'Well, you aren't going to
[01:15:53.520] get it if you don't ask. You know, so
[01:15:55.360] the president's asked you to do this.
[01:15:56.960] Let's just ask them. And so she she did.
[01:16:00.239] And uh and turns out they agreed.
[01:16:02.480] >> Wow.
[01:16:02.800] >> That I could get to see them,
[01:16:05.120] >> right?
[01:16:05.600] >> And what did you see? Uh what what I saw
[01:16:07.760] is what I found is I found in the files
[01:16:10.480] I found photographs of a crash
[01:16:12.560] retrieval.
[01:16:13.280] >> Wow.
[01:16:13.840] >> Going on. It wasn't any in any doubt
[01:16:16.159] whatsoever what it was. It was a
[01:16:18.080] fullscale UFO with a big, you know, bulb
[01:16:21.040] on the top and the whole saucer shape
[01:16:23.120] and it had hit in this snow covered
[01:16:25.280] field, you know, so it clearly wasn't
[01:16:27.040] Roswell and plus the thing was
[01:16:28.719] completely intact and it hit and it had
[01:16:31.840] plowed through this whole field and it
[01:16:34.719] turned up all the earth in the snowy
[01:16:37.120] field. You could see the big trench and
[01:16:38.880] it was here stuck in the side of a of
[01:16:41.280] another embankment that was all covered
[01:16:42.880] with snow, but it was stuck in the side
[01:16:44.320] of the embankment. And I was looking at
[01:16:47.120] the photographs and I realized it was
[01:16:48.800] one of these overhead projectors uh with
[01:16:51.199] microf fish, right? Because they were
[01:16:52.960] all in these little microfish uh things
[01:16:54.880] in these little film canisters, right?
[01:16:57.440] Uh the documents. And so I
[01:16:59.113] [clears throat] I looked and the second
[01:17:01.199] or third of the photographs I said,
[01:17:02.400] "Wait a second. There's some symbols on
[01:17:06.159] the base of the of the uh little uh
[01:17:10.400] bulbous thing on the top." Right? Uh,
[01:17:12.800] and so I I focused the thing and I I
[01:17:16.560] took out the yellow pad and I slipped it
[01:17:18.480] under the thing, but I've been told that
[01:17:20.239] I wasn't supposed to take any
[01:17:21.520] photographs or anything of it. And uh,
[01:17:24.400] so what I did is I opened up the the
[01:17:26.560] yellow pad to the the cardboard section
[01:17:28.960] in the back and slid it under the the
[01:17:31.600] overhead projector, focused it so I
[01:17:34.640] could see the symbols, and I traced
[01:17:36.880] them. I [snorts] traced the symbols.
[01:17:38.640] >> You drew them. I I know when you were on
[01:17:40.560] Chris's show.
[01:17:41.440] >> Yeah. Just ask me
[01:17:42.560] >> how how would we can't draw them here.
[01:17:44.159] Well, I guess you do have a piece of
[01:17:45.440] paper, but yeah, how would you how would
[01:17:47.120] you describe those symbols?
[01:17:48.400] >> Well, that that uh I'll I'll I'll show
[01:17:50.800] you. Let me see here. I'll find some uh
[01:17:53.199] piece of paper here.
[01:17:55.360] >> I've written on both sides of almost
[01:17:56.800] everything. I' I've got my little tags
[01:17:58.400] in here. This is this crazy system that
[01:18:00.800] I have. Oh, here's one. Okay. But that
[01:18:03.520] uh [clears throat]
[01:18:04.480] here's here's what they here's what they
[01:18:06.239] look like. That they we have the
[01:18:09.440] I'll do it upside down. Here here's the
[01:18:11.360] hill. I'll uh
[01:18:13.760] >> here's the hill where it's stuck in,
[01:18:15.600] right? And here's here's the craft. It
[01:18:17.920] was the other way around. It was like
[01:18:19.199] this, right? And here's here's the the
[01:18:21.360] craft. So here's the kind of bulb on the
[01:18:23.760] top of it. And here's the here's the uh
[01:18:27.520] the uh craft like this. Uh and it's
[01:18:31.280] stuck in the side of this big bank like
[01:18:33.679] this. There was this big trench that
[01:18:35.280] went all the way across the field where
[01:18:36.880] it had gone in. And there were these uh
[01:18:38.960] Air Force personnel. You could tell and
[01:18:41.280] they were standing around the thing.
[01:18:43.520] They're taking pictures and stuff,
[01:18:45.120] photographs.
[01:18:45.760] >> So, it's like a cartoonishly
[01:18:48.400] like exact depiction of what you would
[01:18:51.120] think a saucer-shaped UFO would look
[01:18:53.120] like. Correct. Did that surprise you?
[01:18:54.480] >> Not what you would think it look like,
[01:18:55.520] what they do look like cuz people had
[01:18:57.199] seen them and they described them in
[01:18:59.040] great detail. Uh, and so that, you know,
[01:19:01.120] there wasn't any doubt about what it
[01:19:02.320] was. And what I what I recognized is
[01:19:04.800] that when I cranked up this uh overhead
[01:19:07.040] thing, I could see along the base right
[01:19:09.440] here, right along the base of the the
[01:19:12.320] top of this thing, there were symbols.
[01:19:14.480] Uh and they they looked like this. They
[01:19:16.640] they were like, this isn't the exact
[01:19:19.199] order that they were in, but they were
[01:19:21.360] like this.
[01:19:35.360] Is this an approximation or is this like
[01:19:37.120] exact?
[01:19:37.679] >> This is an approximation. Got it. Got
[01:19:39.120] it. And so I so I [clears throat] I I I
[01:19:42.640] traced them literally cuz I I put it
[01:19:44.880] right down there and I traced them so I
[01:19:46.400] would have them absolutely perfect and
[01:19:47.920] exactly right. Uh and then I said, "Holy
[01:19:50.800] shit." I said, "I'd better get out of
[01:19:52.159] here." Because they told me, "You're not
[01:19:53.760] supposed to take any notes. You're not
[01:19:55.040] supposed to take any photographs." I
[01:19:56.640] didn't take any notes or photographs. I
[01:19:58.320] just copied them. Right. Right. So, I
[01:20:00.550] [clears throat] close up the little
[01:20:01.520] yellow pad and I get up and I put the
[01:20:03.760] little canister back in. I put it away.
[01:20:05.760] I stick it stick the yellow pad
[01:20:07.840] lengthwise under my arm and just walked
[01:20:10.480] right out and picked up my briefcase cuz
[01:20:12.640] they made me leave the briefcase
[01:20:14.080] outside.
[01:20:14.719] >> And And do you know now what this crash
[01:20:16.480] was and where it was? Okay. No idea
[01:20:18.640] still.
[01:20:19.040] >> I do not. Uh, all I know is that it was
[01:20:20.960] winter time because it was snow. Uh, and
[01:20:23.199] there was Air Force guys because I could
[01:20:24.640] tell they were Air Force guys because I
[01:20:26.239] was familiar with that. You know, they
[01:20:27.440] had the little furry stuff around winter
[01:20:29.440] winter garb Air Force guys. And one of
[01:20:32.000] them actually the guy over here
[01:20:34.000] >> actually had a camera a film camera like
[01:20:37.520] with the two little bulbs on the top.
[01:20:39.840] >> So presumably there's video of this
[01:20:41.360] somewhere.
[01:20:41.920] >> Well, it's it's a film. It'll be film
[01:20:44.640] pre video. But there the two little
[01:20:46.560] canisters. So it was like some I don't
[01:20:48.960] know 50s or early 60s or something cuz
[01:20:52.000] it was kind of an older kind of model of
[01:20:53.920] a of a camera. But that's and that's
[01:20:55.679] what it was. So I I end up uh
[01:20:58.191] [clears throat]
[01:20:58.719] going back to Jesuit headquarters uh and
[01:21:01.520] I brought the yellow pad with me and I
[01:21:04.320] going to see Father Davis, right, my
[01:21:06.159] superior. I say, "Uh uh, Bill, look what
[01:21:09.760] I've got." And I pointed out to him and
[01:21:12.080] he looked at it and he leans over and he
[01:21:14.719] slides open the drawer on his desk and
[01:21:16.719] he takes out this little 8 and 1 half by
[01:21:18.400] 11 manila folder with a little copper
[01:21:21.280] clasp on it like little bronze clasp and
[01:21:23.120] he hands it to me. So I unclasp it and I
[01:21:25.840] slide out an 8 and 1 half by 11 black
[01:21:28.400] and white photograph.
[01:21:30.080] >> Yeah.
[01:21:30.719] >> Of a UFO in flight.
[01:21:33.199] >> And I said I said, "Wow." I said, "You
[01:21:35.600] know, where did you get this?" He said,
[01:21:37.280] "My sister Dodie gave it to me." And I
[01:21:39.600] said, 'Where did Dodie get it?' She
[01:21:41.120] said, 'Mike gave it to her husband,
[01:21:42.800] who's the chief air traffic controller
[01:21:45.040] at the Seattle airport in Washington
[01:21:47.679] State. Uh, I said, 'Well, where did Mike
[01:21:50.159] get it? She said, his best friend gave
[01:21:51.920] it to him, who's a a a cargo uh pilot
[01:21:54.800] that flies cargo all around the
[01:21:56.400] Northwest and up into Alaska. And he
[01:21:58.480] took this photograph right out of the
[01:22:00.159] window of this airplane in Alaska. Uh I
[01:22:03.679] don't know where but but he's all around
[01:22:05.600] Oregon and Washington state that whole
[01:22:07.600] area. That's what he flies.
[01:22:09.040] >> Uh and he's he took it out
[01:22:10.900] [clears throat] of the window of his
[01:22:11.920] airplane and when he and brought it to
[01:22:14.239] the drugstore
[01:22:15.679] >> to get developed so what you had to do
[01:22:17.520] back then, right? And when he sees the
[01:22:20.239] the thing, he doesn't want to get in
[01:22:21.920] trouble. He doesn't said he didn't want
[01:22:23.360] to lose his license by reporting it. And
[01:22:26.000] so he takes it to his best friend who's
[01:22:28.320] the head of the air traffic controllers
[01:22:30.239] at the Seattle airport, right? and and
[01:22:32.800] gives it to him saying, "Okay, I've done
[01:22:35.360] that." And then Mike didn't want to get
[01:22:37.360] in trouble, so he takes it and gives it
[01:22:39.760] to his sister do his wife Dodie and
[01:22:42.239] said, "Here, bring this to your brother.
[01:22:44.719] He's a priest."
[01:22:46.320] >> Okay.
[01:22:47.199] >> And whatever that means, you know, but
[01:22:49.920] it means [clears throat] a lot as it
[01:22:51.040] turns out.
[01:22:52.320] >> Yeah. Expand on that. Why why is the
[01:22:54.800] Vatican interested in UFOs and and why
[01:22:57.920] do they you know there's other people
[01:22:58.960] who talk about this too like Dana Pulka
[01:23:00.880] talks about that they seem to have had
[01:23:02.639] this pretty sophisticated astronomical
[01:23:05.280] program that is directly interested in
[01:23:07.920] the phenomenon and you know she's gone
[01:23:09.920] there into the archive supposedly with
[01:23:11.840] this mysterious Tim Taylor figure and
[01:23:14.320] they has studied it there to some degree
[01:23:16.800] but what what is the true story and true
[01:23:19.920] depth as far as your understanding goes
[01:23:22.639] in why they're interested in the
[01:23:24.560] phenomenon and what they know about
[01:23:26.239] Well, I mean the the I mean the the
[01:23:29.840] entire the entire Catholic Church has uh
[01:23:33.440] risen up around a person, you know,
[01:23:37.280] 2,000 years ago, you know, who was
[01:23:40.639] displaying all kinds of these particular
[01:23:43.440] talents or charisms, you know, where he
[01:23:46.080] could, you know, walk on water or
[01:23:47.840] levitate, you know, could telepathically
[01:23:50.639] communicate with people, could
[01:23:51.840] understand, uh, you know, what their all
[01:23:54.080] their thoughts were. uh you know could
[01:23:56.639] transform matter from one form into
[01:23:58.960] another. You know, water into wine and
[01:24:02.239] uh and uh uh and and manifest uh loaves
[01:24:06.159] and fishes,
[01:24:07.440] >> you know, uh according to their
[01:24:09.600] mythology, right? Uh well, it turns out
[01:24:11.840] that Hindu sus and and others do it too,
[01:24:15.520] right? You know, and and Buddhist monks
[01:24:17.840] do it. uh and it turns out that there's
[01:24:20.320] a whole uh element of our human family
[01:24:23.520] uh in any given generation who have
[01:24:25.679] these kind of talents that that can do
[01:24:27.679] this. And so that that uh it it wasn't
[01:24:31.600] just so much you know what they were
[01:24:33.920] doing uh or even so much what they were
[01:24:36.880] saying. It's as they say it's who they
[01:24:40.400] are.
[01:24:42.080] And so the question is who are these
[01:24:44.000] people? What is what's going on here?
[01:24:46.159] you know uh and uh and since the since
[01:24:48.880] the entire Catholic Christologology has
[01:24:51.280] arisen up around a person who had these
[01:24:53.520] type of capabilities when they uh
[01:24:56.639] started realizing quite early on in
[01:24:59.120] history that these craft were flying
[01:25:01.600] around and that there reports coming in
[01:25:04.639] of what these beings were doing is the
[01:25:06.960] beings would levitate. They'd kind of
[01:25:09.360] float the float float [laughter] out and
[01:25:11.920] and and elevate people, you know, reach
[01:25:14.159] out and touch them on the elbow and they
[01:25:16.080] would come up off the ground and they
[01:25:17.280] would kind of float them into the the
[01:25:19.360] craft. Uh and they were telepathically
[01:25:21.600] communicating with them. Yeah. you know,
[01:25:23.679] and and that they they started to say,
[01:25:25.520] you know, there seems to be some kind of
[01:25:27.120] relationship here between right uh these
[01:25:30.400] beings that are being reported in these
[01:25:32.320] flying craft flying around uh and these
[01:25:34.960] kind of talents and charisms that these
[01:25:37.280] that the saints have uh that are similar
[01:25:39.920] to those that Christ had, you know, uh
[01:25:42.719] and so therefore we ought to keep some
[01:25:45.120] notes on this and record on this. And
[01:25:47.120] that's in that the the uh the Vatican
[01:25:50.159] archives became the kind of archives
[01:25:52.880] that you know analogous to the
[01:25:54.480] Alexandria
[01:25:56.000] library.
[01:25:56.800] >> And people have talked about how massive
[01:25:59.760] the Vatican archives are. But how how
[01:26:02.000] big are they? Like have you you've been
[01:26:03.920] >> I've been to I've been through the
[01:26:05.199] archives, you know, I've met with, you
[01:26:07.040] know, uh with uh uh uh Yo Yan, who's the
[01:26:11.600] head of the archives. Yeah. uh because I
[01:26:14.000] sent the letter to them, you know, uh
[01:26:16.000] pursuant to the request of of the
[01:26:18.400] President Carter in the Congressional
[01:26:21.040] Research Service and I got permission
[01:26:23.040] from my superiors at the Jesuit
[01:26:24.800] headquarters to do it. So, I wrote to
[01:26:26.880] the the Vatican archives uh explained to
[01:26:29.440] them in the letter what was going on and
[01:26:31.199] we'd like to get to have me get access
[01:26:33.920] to them. And they wrote back and said,
[01:26:35.760] "No."
[01:26:38.320] I I said so I wrote him a second letter
[01:26:40.639] saying I guess I didn't really make
[01:26:42.560] myself clear here. You know this isn't
[01:26:44.000] just idle curiosity. You know the
[01:26:45.840] president is asking for these things and
[01:26:48.080] we want to participate with him and
[01:26:50.080] helping him understand all this and they
[01:26:52.159] said no again. So uh I later was at the
[01:26:55.920] archives and went to or at the Vatican
[01:26:59.120] uh in meeting with the secretary of
[01:27:00.719] state on another matter. Uh and so I was
[01:27:03.840] uh I went to see Johan and uh so
[01:27:07.679] actually Johan came to see me. I was
[01:27:09.840] coming out of the secretary the uh the
[01:27:12.400] secretary of state's desk or office uh
[01:27:16.480] and there was Johan standing in the
[01:27:18.560] hallway and he said I'd heard that you
[01:27:20.480] were here. He said I remember you know
[01:27:22.480] your letter. Uh I said why don't you
[01:27:24.400] come on down to the archives. Let's
[01:27:25.840] talk. So I went down. Well, what he
[01:27:27.760] wanted me to do, he wanted me because
[01:27:29.360] I'd been legal counsel for the New York
[01:27:30.960] Times in the Pentagon Papers, he wanted
[01:27:32.960] me to write a letter to the editor of
[01:27:34.480] the New York Times, uh, openly
[01:27:36.560] advocating uh, in my capacity as legal
[01:27:39.120] counsel for social ministry of the
[01:27:40.560] Jesuit order. You know, wanted me to
[01:27:42.800] write a letter to the editor advocating
[01:27:44.639] that they open up the archives about
[01:27:47.760] Pope Pius I 12th,
[01:27:49.199] >> okay? is the one who had signed the
[01:27:50.800] concordat with Hitler in Mussolini.
[01:27:53.520] Okay. And the fascists to agreeing
[01:27:56.320] basically not to go after the German
[01:27:58.800] Reich uh for the Jewish death camps
[01:28:02.635] [snorts]
[01:28:02.800] >> uh in exchange for which Mussolini would
[01:28:04.719] agree to restore the uh citystate status
[01:28:08.400] to the Vatican.
[01:28:09.840] >> Okay.
[01:28:10.320] >> Uh and uh and so Pis the 12th had
[01:28:13.520] negotiated that deal with Cardinal Vio
[01:28:15.840] who was his secretary of state. Uh, and
[01:28:18.320] so, uh, he that's what he wanted me. So,
[01:28:20.000] I agreed to do it, you know, and I wrote
[01:28:22.880] the letter, drafted the letter for him,
[01:28:24.400] and gave it to him. Uh, and and he said,
[01:28:26.880] "Now, what can I do for you?" And I
[01:28:29.199] said, "You know what you're going to do
[01:28:30.400] for me?" He said, "I can't do that. I
[01:28:32.800] can't do that." He said, "Not yet. Not
[01:28:34.960] yet." Uh, and so, we he hasn't given me
[01:28:38.480] access uh to that yet, but I'm hoping he
[01:28:42.560] will.
[01:28:43.280] >> Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, but if you had to
[01:28:47.120] guess knowing
[01:28:48.639] >> I don't get paid to guess. Okay.
[01:28:50.320] >> You know that that's the what
[01:28:51.280] distinguishes us, you know, is that
[01:28:52.880] there's an awful lot of guessing going
[01:28:54.239] on. What what I do do is I try to gather
[01:28:56.719] all the data together and following the
[01:28:59.040] protocols taught to me by Larry Tribe,
[01:29:01.840] you know, figure out what the the range
[01:29:03.760] of probabilities are. what are the
[01:29:05.760] things you know even to you know the
[01:29:07.120] singledigit possibilities you know all
[01:29:09.760] the way up to more than 51%
[01:29:12.159] probabilities and then lay them out in
[01:29:14.400] front of us and then start exploring for
[01:29:16.239] the data that can you know fix the
[01:29:18.239] numbers from you know you don't start
[01:29:20.080] out with even balances all the time and
[01:29:21.920] some of these hypotheticals you know
[01:29:24.080] some of them are more probable than
[01:29:25.360] others right on their face uh and you go
[01:29:27.679] through the entire analysis now the
[01:29:29.440] additional advantage that I had is that
[01:29:31.440] at Flee Bailey's office
[01:29:33.600] >> uh when I was there working on the pen
[01:29:35.199] on the Watergate burglary case. You
[01:29:37.199] know, I realized that that Effle
[01:29:38.800] Bailey's office, Bailey and and and
[01:29:41.199] Bailey and Alch uh they have a whole
[01:29:44.239] stable of professional private
[01:29:45.760] investigators,
[01:29:47.280] >> uh Morardi and Associates, which is
[01:29:49.440] owned by Lee Bailey, [laughter] but but
[01:29:51.360] it's it's a whole a whole 40 guys that
[01:29:54.239] are there, gun toers, licensed gun toers
[01:29:56.800] on airplanes and the whole nine yards.
[01:29:58.639] real professionals, you know, and I had
[01:30:01.440] people assigned to me to help me do
[01:30:03.920] investigations. And so when they
[01:30:05.840] realized how I did investigations and
[01:30:07.600] got to oversee investigations, they
[01:30:09.199] thought it was really quite
[01:30:10.159] professional. Plus they figured that I
[01:30:13.199] was a good guy which they had most of
[01:30:16.480] them the careers they've been in
[01:30:18.159] government investigators you know FBI
[01:30:20.480] CIA people you know a lot of CI criminal
[01:30:23.520] investigating division of the very
[01:30:25.120] military services you know uh and so
[01:30:28.000] they said oh finally we get to actually
[01:30:30.159] work on something that is honest and and
[01:30:33.440] you know not you know some covert
[01:30:35.120] operation or or you know some
[01:30:36.960] politically motivated operation so that
[01:30:39.679] uh so I got to be friends with a lot of
[01:30:41.440] guys. And so that I ended up maintaining
[01:30:43.840] these relationships and the one of them,
[01:30:46.480] the guy that was my chief investigator,
[01:30:48.239] William Johnstone Taylor, his name was,
[01:30:50.800] uh, three tour Vietnam Marine Corps, C,
[01:30:54.239] >> right? Uh, and he knew all kinds because
[01:30:56.480] he'd done three tours, you know,
[01:30:58.480] rational people would do only one if
[01:31:02.080] they had to, you know, and so the guys
[01:31:04.800] would come through the the crotch, as
[01:31:06.560] they call it, would come through
[01:31:07.600] Vietnam. uh and they do one tour and
[01:31:10.480] they'd be air force OSI office of
[01:31:12.320] special investigations off of office of
[01:31:14.480] naval investigating services you know uh
[01:31:17.520] uh the uh other US Army C marine corps
[01:31:21.920] and he get to meet all these guys right
[01:31:24.080] and he had three entire tours there with
[01:31:27.280] these guys coming through so they would
[01:31:29.679] would go out of the service and then
[01:31:31.679] they would go to work for you know FBI
[01:31:34.480] you know secret service you know state
[01:31:36.480] police BCI bureau of criminal criminal
[01:31:38.480] investigations, sheriff's departments
[01:31:40.560] all across the country. And so Bill was
[01:31:43.360] smart and he maintained contact with all
[01:31:45.520] of them, you know, and he had this
[01:31:47.199] entire rolodex of these guys. Uh and so
[01:31:50.400] that when when I would get a case, I'd
[01:31:52.960] call Bill Taylor. He was the f one of
[01:31:55.440] the co-founders of the former federal
[01:31:58.159] investigative officers association uh
[01:32:01.040] and the founder of the Florida
[01:32:02.880] Association of Professional Private
[01:32:04.480] Investigators. Okay? you know, uh, and
[01:32:06.800] so I had access to the the guys and I
[01:32:09.600] had access to how to figure out how to
[01:32:11.280] do investigations. And so we set up, uh,
[01:32:14.080] the institute out of the Jesuit
[01:32:15.760] headquarters.
[01:32:16.880] >> We set up the Cristic Institute uh, as a
[01:32:19.520] 501c3 public interest uh, organization
[01:32:22.880] uh, investigative agency and litigator.
[01:32:26.800] Uh and so uh and the Jesuit headquarters
[01:32:30.400] gave us a an old cobbler shop. Yeah.
[01:32:33.040] That was inherited by one of their
[01:32:35.040] Jesuit guys, Dam Todoro, and his sister
[01:32:37.760] Maria, who was a a mercy nun, and they
[01:32:40.560] couldn't own any property. So that what
[01:32:42.480] they did is they gave it to Jesuit
[01:32:44.159] headquarters who gave it to us as the
[01:32:45.840] 501c3. So we had this little cobbler
[01:32:49.360] shop right on right at the bottom of
[01:32:51.840] Capitol Hill. So uh you know we took all
[01:32:55.360] the little they had all those little
[01:32:56.480] metal feet that you cobbler shop thing
[01:32:58.639] we s we kept them in our office our law
[01:33:00.560] office is kind of cute and we uh and so
[01:33:03.360] we set up we set up shop as the Christic
[01:33:05.440] Institute uh and uh went ahead and uh
[01:33:08.800] did the uh did major litigation
[01:33:12.639] >> and investigations out of there.
[01:33:14.400] >> Yeah. Yeah. you've led such an
[01:33:16.000] incredible life and this road that
[01:33:18.639] you've been on has, you know, led us to
[01:33:21.199] where we are now. And I don't I don't
[01:33:23.040] want to derail your story because
[01:33:24.400] there's so many there's so many
[01:33:26.080] fascinating things that we could spend
[01:33:27.520] forever on along the way, but we do have
[01:33:29.520] limited time unfortunately where we are.
[01:33:31.520] I don't know what time they're going to
[01:33:32.480] kick us out, but we still have plenty of
[01:33:34.239] time.
[01:33:35.360] Some of the things I do want to make
[01:33:36.560] sure that we get to is um my audience is
[01:33:39.679] obviously interested in this whole topic
[01:33:41.040] of the UFO phenomenon, but I think
[01:33:42.560] they're particularly interested in as am
[01:33:44.800] I is the role of consciousness and the
[01:33:47.360] role and and what it's
[01:33:50.000] >> Yes, the psionic stuff and also the sort
[01:33:52.159] of like spiritual implications of it as
[01:33:54.719] well as the identity of what the
[01:33:56.480] phenomenon is in and of itself really
[01:33:58.960] like are we really talking about like
[01:34:01.440] alien beings who literally traveled from
[01:34:03.360] another planet? Are we talking about
[01:34:04.719] emissaries of higher consciousness and
[01:34:07.120] and what you know of course it's
[01:34:08.960] speculation and you said you don't get
[01:34:10.320] paid to guess but it is fun to speculate
[01:34:12.400] about what their motivations might be
[01:34:14.159] and and what you know
[01:34:16.080] >> the true identity of these entities is
[01:34:19.120] behind maybe the the corporeal mask of
[01:34:22.080] how they appear to be physically. So, um
[01:34:25.120] I guess yeah, let's start with the
[01:34:26.480] psionic stuff because you have commented
[01:34:28.400] on that to me privately and in other
[01:34:30.400] shows, I think, but um you really do
[01:34:33.040] seem to think that there is a there
[01:34:34.480] there and you know, I'm sure you're
[01:34:36.080] you're well aware of project Stargate.
[01:34:38.000] I've had a couple of the projects.
[01:34:39.199] Stargate, remote viewers on the show,
[01:34:41.520] Paul Smith, who you may know, uh Lynn
[01:34:43.760] Buchanan, and um
[01:34:45.520] >> I've met Ingo Swan, you know, and uh and
[01:34:48.560] uh and the guys, you know, that So, I I
[01:34:51.520] got I got briefed in on the remote
[01:34:53.679] viewing program back in 1977.
[01:34:56.080] >> Oh, really? Wow. So, so you knew what
[01:34:58.080] this was going on when it was very very
[01:35:00.560] classified still? Yeah.
[01:35:01.920] >> Incredible.
[01:35:02.560] >> Very classified.
[01:35:03.360] >> So, why did why did Jesuit headquarters
[01:35:05.040] need to know about Stargate? Well, it
[01:35:07.199] was interesting what what I I don't want
[01:35:09.520] to go too far into detail, but but what
[01:35:11.679] happened is is uh I at Jesuit
[01:35:15.040] headquarters, uh Father Bill Davis and I
[01:35:18.400] in the social ministry office, you know,
[01:35:20.159] I I I went over to see uh uh the Jesuit
[01:35:24.480] priest who was a congressman uh who
[01:35:27.199] chaired the uh House Judiciary
[01:35:29.040] Committee. And I said to him, "What's
[01:35:31.600] the story here? I'm in Washington DC.
[01:35:33.679] you know, I've been asked to come down
[01:35:34.639] to the headquarters, uh, and you know,
[01:35:36.560] they've got, you know, agriculture
[01:35:38.080] people have lobbyists and the national
[01:35:39.679] organization has lobbyists. They're all
[01:35:42.080] over the city. Why is it that the
[01:35:44.480] religious organizations don't have like
[01:35:47.199] uh a shop that actually engages in a
[01:35:50.239] collective sharing of information and
[01:35:52.239] stuff? He said, "Well, you know,
[01:35:53.760] frankly," he said, "the the there are 54
[01:35:57.040] offices of different denominations that
[01:35:59.840] monitor legislative issues uh in town.
[01:36:03.440] Uh but the they don't trust the Catholic
[01:36:05.600] Church because of the bad history we
[01:36:07.520] have, you know, kind of run the world."
[01:36:09.760] Yeah. Uh sure. Uh and so, you know, that
[01:36:11.920] they they all just maintain their own
[01:36:14.480] individual shops. And I said, "Well, I'
[01:36:16.320] I'd like to, you know, get to talk to
[01:36:18.480] them and see if we could set up some
[01:36:20.239] kind of common operation." And we did. I
[01:36:23.520] went first to see Dave Sapperstein,
[01:36:25.199] Rabbi Sapperstein, the Union of American
[01:36:27.600] Hebrew Congregations, got him on board.
[01:36:30.320] uh then went to see the people at the US
[01:36:31.920] Catholic Conference of Bishops uh got
[01:36:34.000] them on board, went to the Unitarians,
[01:36:37.040] uh got them on board, then went to the
[01:36:38.800] Episcopals and got them on board, and we
[01:36:40.800] built a thing called the Washington
[01:36:43.120] Interreligious Staff Council. Uh and we
[01:36:47.520] set up at the National Council of
[01:36:49.440] Churches uh building there, the
[01:36:51.199] Methodist building, right next door to
[01:36:52.800] the United States Supreme Court,
[01:36:54.719] >> you know, uh between there and the heart
[01:36:56.400] senate office building right across the
[01:36:58.480] front windows looked right out at the
[01:36:59.840] capital building. So we set up uh there
[01:37:02.880] the Washington and the religious staff
[01:37:04.719] council. I was we set up six task
[01:37:07.360] forces, you know, right off the start of
[01:37:09.520] one to disarm nuclear weapons and
[01:37:11.920] destroy them to get rid of them around
[01:37:13.440] the world, feeding people, getting food
[01:37:16.480] and stuff, environmental protection
[01:37:18.400] stuff, other things that and I chaired
[01:37:20.960] the task force on uh human rights and
[01:37:24.400] criminal justice and uh in that capacity
[01:37:28.239] uh I was bringing in resource people,
[01:37:30.880] American Civil Liberties Union, you
[01:37:32.880] know, the Benet Brit all these other
[01:37:34.880] about religious liberty and all that. Uh
[01:37:37.119] and I was chairing these meetings uh uh
[01:37:40.719] once a month. Uh and then this couple
[01:37:43.760] came in uh young young couple like early
[01:37:47.360] 20s, you know, very very well-dressed,
[01:37:50.000] very proper and they said they were from
[01:37:52.080] the uh the uh Institute for Human
[01:37:55.119] Rights.
[01:37:56.080] >> And I was saying Institute for Human
[01:37:58.400] Rights. I [laughter] said, "I've never
[01:38:00.320] heard of that." You know,
[01:38:01.760] >> it sounds like so broad that it almost
[01:38:03.440] sounds made up.
[01:38:04.239] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, turns out it was they
[01:38:06.639] came in and so and and they kept asking
[01:38:09.119] questions about psychiatrists. You know,
[01:38:11.119] isn't there some kind of we have to deal
[01:38:12.719] with psychiatrists? You know, they're
[01:38:14.000] contaminating everybody's brains and
[01:38:15.840] manipulating them and all. And I was
[01:38:17.360] saying, wait a second, uh I pulled them
[01:38:20.239] aside and I said, "You guys are
[01:38:22.239] scientologist, right?"
[01:38:23.440] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[01:38:24.159] >> Uh and they went, "Well, no, not I mean,
[01:38:26.480] not officially. We're not." And I said,
[01:38:27.679] "Look, I don't care. It doesn't bother
[01:38:30.080] me. I said, you know, I just wanted to
[01:38:32.400] know." Uh they said well yes yeah we are
[01:38:36.000] uh and uh they said uh would it be okay
[01:38:38.480] for us still to be a resource person on
[01:38:40.639] this particular issue of human rights
[01:38:43.040] and psychiatry and all that and so I
[01:38:45.280] said it doesn't bother me. Uh, and then
[01:38:47.679] after another two or three sessions,
[01:38:49.119] they came back and said, you know,
[01:38:50.480] couldn't we become a member, an official
[01:38:52.239] member of the Washington religious staff
[01:38:54.159] council because they were trying to get
[01:38:55.840] recognized by the IRS as a legitimate
[01:38:58.719] religion, right? And so I went and
[01:39:00.560] talked to Jim Hamilton, who's head of
[01:39:02.000] the National Council of Churches, and he
[01:39:03.360] said, "No way. That's not going to
[01:39:05.360] happen, you know." So I said, "That's
[01:39:07.520] not going to work, but you guys can stay
[01:39:08.719] as a resource." So we got uh they they
[01:39:12.000] were pleased that I was doing this and I
[01:39:14.719] was very open with them. Uh, and then,
[01:39:17.040] uh, I was getting set to leave town one
[01:39:19.199] morning and Father Davis, before we had
[01:39:21.119] cell phones and stuff, so I stopped at
[01:39:23.119] one of the pay booth and called the
[01:39:24.719] office just check make sure everything
[01:39:26.239] was okay because I was getting set to go
[01:39:27.679] out of town. I said, "Boy, am I glad you
[01:39:29.840] called. You know, the FBI has just
[01:39:32.000] chainsawed the doors off the
[01:39:33.520] international headquarters of Church of
[01:39:35.280] Scientology here in Washington DC, and
[01:39:38.000] they've chainsawed the doors off the
[01:39:39.600] office in Los Angeles at the same
[01:39:41.280] moment. and they've come swooping in
[01:39:43.199] with a warrant uh in their they brought
[01:39:45.520] in Xerox machines and they're xeroxing
[01:39:47.440] every single document in the entire
[01:39:48.800] headquarters of the Church of
[01:39:50.400] Scientology. Wow. And they they are
[01:39:52.560] screaming to for you to come over there
[01:39:54.000] to help them. So I drove over there uh
[01:39:57.440] and they have these big, you know, mass
[01:39:59.600] arrest vehicles and and everything all
[01:40:01.760] around them and they've got the place
[01:40:03.360] all taped off. And so I went over and
[01:40:05.920] found Richard, the guy who was the legal
[01:40:07.679] counsel for them. I said, "Okay, who's
[01:40:10.239] in charge here? get me to who's in
[01:40:11.760] charge. So, I found the guy and I said,
[01:40:13.280] "Let's see the warrant, you know, and I
[01:40:15.679] looked at the warrant and it's got a
[01:40:17.440] whole big long list of things that they
[01:40:19.440] were looking for." Uh, and then at the
[01:40:21.760] very bottom, it's got a thing. It says,
[01:40:23.840] "And any and all other evidence of any
[01:40:27.600] uh federal or state crime,
[01:40:30.560] >> an absolute general warrant, an absolute
[01:40:33.040] general warrant, the very thing that
[01:40:34.960] caused the Fourth Amendment to get put
[01:40:36.560] into the Constitution." True. And I
[01:40:38.320] said, "Whoa." I said, "Look at this
[01:40:39.920] thing." And so I took a copy of it and
[01:40:42.480] went to the federal courts. Drove right
[01:40:43.920] over to the federal courthouse and got
[01:40:45.280] to see Judge Green. Said, "Take a read
[01:40:47.360] of this thing." I said, "You know, they
[01:40:48.800] they're sitting in they're xeroxing all
[01:40:50.960] the files and stuff for the church
[01:40:52.239] scientology." And and I said, "I want
[01:40:54.880] immediate injunction, emergency
[01:40:56.239] injunction. Stop them from doing this."
[01:40:58.000] He said, "Write it up and I'll sign it."
[01:41:00.129] [laughter] So
[01:41:00.880] >> So legally speaking, a warrant should be
[01:41:02.639] within a very limited scope of exactly
[01:41:04.639] what they're looking for, the very thing
[01:41:05.679] you're looking for. uh and you have to
[01:41:07.440] have a probable cause uh declaration to
[01:41:10.159] declare that it's more probable than not
[01:41:11.679] that what you're looking for is evidence
[01:41:13.760] and fruit of a crime. Uh and they hadn't
[01:41:16.560] done any of that, you know.
[01:41:18.159] >> Well, question.
[01:41:19.199] >> So, that's how I got that's how I got
[01:41:20.639] there. That's how I found out from them
[01:41:22.560] because what happened is uh is of course
[01:41:25.760] I I go back and I deliver the court
[01:41:27.440] order to the people and FBI has to
[01:41:29.280] unpack everything and I put in the order
[01:41:31.360] they had to return every single
[01:41:32.639] document, every photo stat of every
[01:41:34.159] single document, all the fingerprints
[01:41:35.600] they took off the documents. I knew
[01:41:37.360] enough to go down the whole list of how
[01:41:38.880] to get extract every single thing they
[01:41:40.960] had, right? Which is going to be helpful
[01:41:42.560] when we're doing the depositions of the
[01:41:44.880] legacy group. Yeah. And so so so we we
[01:41:48.159] did all that. they had to put everything
[01:41:49.679] back and they were really pissed, you
[01:41:51.440] know, the FBI guys. Uh, and so in the
[01:41:54.480] the Church of Scientology was just
[01:41:56.320] ecstatic that we had done this. And then
[01:41:59.119] two weeks later, turns out the US
[01:42:01.360] attorney issued a subpoena for the top
[01:42:03.280] 12 members of the Church of Scientology
[01:42:05.440] in New York State
[01:42:07.199] >> uh and ordered them all to come into a
[01:42:09.119] grand jury, which they were going to go
[01:42:10.400] after them. They called me. I flew up to
[01:42:13.600] New York or drove up to New York
[01:42:14.960] actually uh and filed a a motion to get
[01:42:17.600] an injunction against them on the
[01:42:19.360] grounds that it was violative of the
[01:42:21.280] first amendment rights of a church. They
[01:42:22.880] couldn't do that. You know, it violated
[01:42:24.960] the the confessional and u won and
[01:42:28.560] struck it down. Uh so they were totally
[01:42:30.880] ecstatic. So, so for people that don't
[01:42:33.040] know about this early link between
[01:42:36.159] project Stargate and Scientology, like
[01:42:40.159] >> that's something that people listening
[01:42:41.760] might be like, "Okay, why is he talking
[01:42:42.960] about Scientology? You're
[01:42:43.920] >> talking about Scientology."
[01:42:45.040] >> But there is a major link between all of
[01:42:47.679] these early figures and the Church of
[01:42:49.360] Scientology at least for a period of
[01:42:51.119] time. So, we're talking about Pat Price,
[01:42:53.199] we're talking about Hal Putoff,
[01:42:55.440] you know. Yeah. So, catch catch people
[01:42:57.600] up on that.
[01:42:58.400] >> Well, so so anyway, what happened? I
[01:43:00.239] didn't know anything about it at that
[01:43:02.000] stage. But what happened is they come
[01:43:03.679] back to me and say that Elron Hubard uh
[01:43:06.800] head of the Church of Scientology wants
[01:43:08.800] me to become his lawyer uh for him and
[01:43:11.360] his wife Susan. Uh and uh I said I said
[01:43:16.320] uh well I said I said look I I'm busy
[01:43:19.040] doing all kinds of tons of other things.
[01:43:20.560] I can't really probably do it. said, but
[01:43:22.719] I said as a condition preceded before
[01:43:24.960] I'd even get to go meet with Iran
[01:43:27.600] Hubard, I said I'd have to be given
[01:43:29.520] permission to get access to every single
[01:43:31.280] document uh of the Church of Scientology
[01:43:33.679] anywhere in the world. Yeah.
[01:43:34.960] >> Which I figured was a total non-starter,
[01:43:36.880] right? Well, a week later, they come
[01:43:38.719] back and they say, "Okay, it's done."
[01:43:40.400] You know, uh what you we're going to fly
[01:43:42.400] you down to uh to Florida uh to the uh
[01:43:45.760] to the big blue cube down there that
[01:43:47.840] they've got down in u Clearwater,
[01:43:50.800] Florida. Uh, so I call Bill Taylor who's
[01:43:54.719] the president of the Florida Association
[01:43:56.639] Professional Private Investigators right
[01:43:58.800] down there. And so Bill and I go into
[01:44:01.280] the headquarters and we're in there and
[01:44:02.960] they've got the guardian of the the
[01:44:04.800] church, church guardian office, which is
[01:44:07.199] their security people for the entire
[01:44:09.520] United States there and the
[01:44:11.199] international guardian for the whole
[01:44:12.960] international church of Scientology. and
[01:44:15.360] they're there and the the uh the the
[01:44:18.239] head guardian for the international
[01:44:19.679] office says to me, "So so what do you
[01:44:21.360] want to see?" And I said, "Well, first
[01:44:24.000] thing I'd want to see is my file."
[01:44:26.159] >> Mhm.
[01:44:27.119] >> File you got on me? Well, the American
[01:44:29.440] guy goes, "Well, no, we uh we No, we
[01:44:32.239] don't." And I said, "Excuse me?" I said,
[01:44:34.159] "Are you trying to tell me that you're
[01:44:35.600] asking me to be the lawyer for Alon
[01:44:37.199] Harvard and you don't have a file on
[01:44:38.480] me?" So the international guy says, "Go
[01:44:41.440] get him the file." [snorts] So they go
[01:44:43.440] and get the file, right? So, Bill, Bill
[01:44:45.600] Taylor and I, Bill Taylor and I just sat
[01:44:47.679] there, you know, for sitting there
[01:44:48.960] waiting waiting for him to come back and
[01:44:50.560] I don't know, 15, 20 minutes just to say
[01:44:52.400] a word until he came back and he brings
[01:44:54.480] it back and I looked all through it, you
[01:44:56.239] know, and they got photographs of me in
[01:44:57.760] meetings and all this stuff.
[01:44:59.679] >> So, I said, "Okay, I just wanted to make
[01:45:01.840] sure that it was accurate." Uh, and so
[01:45:04.560] the so the national guy is a dead man
[01:45:07.199] sitting there [laughter] basically from
[01:45:08.480] this point on, but the international guy
[01:45:10.560] says, "Okay, [clears throat] what do you
[01:45:11.679] want to see?" I said,"I want to see the
[01:45:13.920] three most sensitive files in the entire
[01:45:16.719] world."
[01:45:17.920] >> uh that in your judgment as the the
[01:45:20.480] chief guardian. And he went, "Oh shit."
[01:45:24.320] He said, "I say and and I'll wait." So
[01:45:26.480] you get him. And so off he goes. So
[01:45:30.480] we're sitting there with the dead man,
[01:45:31.760] you know, [laughter] for like 15 minutes
[01:45:33.360] waiting, you know, not a word. And then
[01:45:35.360] the guy comes back and he pushes the
[01:45:37.520] files over to me. Uh and the first file
[01:45:40.239] that he gave to me uh was all the
[01:45:42.639] reports from Ingo Swan
[01:45:44.560] >> that Ingo was uh high level clear. It
[01:45:48.340] [snorts] turns out to four uh and uh and
[01:45:52.080] he uh was one of the main uh remote
[01:45:55.840] viewers and he was filing reports on
[01:45:58.560] everything that was going on in Star
[01:46:00.719] inside Stargate. Uh, and all the stuff
[01:46:03.360] about Pat Price and all the stuff they
[01:46:05.040] did, all the stuff about being, you
[01:46:06.480] know, be able to go to thing, look
[01:46:07.840] inside files and read files from a
[01:46:09.760] distance and all that. I don't know if
[01:46:10.880] you're familiar with Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[01:46:12.400] Okay. So, he's so he's showing me all
[01:46:14.080] that stuff. I'm going, "Wow, I didn't
[01:46:16.880] know anything about that, you know, and
[01:46:18.400] this is 1977
[01:46:20.239] and there it is, you know, laying out
[01:46:21.920] all the activity that they're engaged
[01:46:23.520] in, you know." Uh, and then then the
[01:46:26.400] second file he showed me, well, the one
[01:46:28.960] of the things in in the first file, not
[01:46:30.880] only that thing where where Pat Price
[01:46:33.360] was able to go into the building and
[01:46:34.960] into the office and into the fi files
[01:46:36.800] and read them,
[01:46:38.000] >> but turns out that uh here comes a big
[01:46:41.679] one for you. Yeah.
[01:46:42.719] >> Uh, that they could show Pat Price a
[01:46:46.080] photograph of a Russian boomer submarine
[01:46:49.840] and say, "Where is it?
[01:46:54.560] And you could just
[01:46:56.000] >> longitude, latitude down to the minute
[01:46:58.639] and second
[01:46:59.840] >> depth.
[01:47:01.600] Okay. Uh, and there's the report. It
[01:47:04.960] shows me that he did it. And it turns
[01:47:08.159] out that right up over the Boomer
[01:47:11.119] submarine
[01:47:12.639] was a UFO.
[01:47:14.560] Whoa. Okay. Just hovering and tracking
[01:47:18.000] the the submarine like that. So I went,
[01:47:21.679] "Whoa. Uh, that's a Hummer."
[01:47:23.760] >> And there were pictures of this.
[01:47:24.960] >> Uh, no. Or just had the report. It had
[01:47:27.280] the report in it. No photographs.
[01:47:29.360] >> Okay. Uh, and I said, "Wow, that's a now
[01:47:32.239] that [laughter] that's pretty pretty
[01:47:33.920] serious business, you know, the capa
[01:47:35.760] with the capacity both to be able to
[01:47:37.119] read files at a distance and to, you
[01:47:39.600] know, monitor their submarines."
[01:47:42.080] And and uh, he said, uh, so then he
[01:47:44.800] said, "But there's a second file." And
[01:47:46.960] he gave me the second file. And I said,
[01:47:49.600] "Wow. Uh, what's this? It turns out they
[01:47:52.480] took Pat Price uh up to a facility in
[01:47:57.840] central Canada, South Central Canada
[01:48:00.719] along the border uh in this little
[01:48:03.199] building, a little like domed building.
[01:48:05.840] It looked like a little observatory.
[01:48:07.280] This says uh and they got these big uh
[01:48:10.000] communication dishes on the top. Uh, and
[01:48:12.800] they have Pat Price come in and sit down
[01:48:14.560] in this chair and they put this helmet
[01:48:16.800] on him. Uh, and they have him, uh,
[01:48:20.000] project a telepathic message. Uh, and
[01:48:23.679] then they turn the little, uh,
[01:48:25.840] communication dishes down on the
[01:48:28.159] northern the northern peninsula of
[01:48:30.639] Michigan, which were there, and they
[01:48:33.119] focus the the the communication dishes
[01:48:35.679] there. And Pat Price is told to send out
[01:48:38.080] the message that you are to file your
[01:48:40.880] federal income tax forms for next year.
[01:48:43.920] >> What?
[01:48:44.320] >> In this little nowhere town post office
[01:48:47.119] box uh in West Virginia.
[01:48:49.600] >> Okay.
[01:48:51.119] And 80% of the people on the peninsula
[01:48:53.440] did it.
[01:48:54.080] >> So So when you say they had him do it,
[01:48:56.239] Stargate had him do this or Okay.
[01:48:58.000] >> It was a Stargate program.
[01:48:59.440] >> So yeah. So, for just to take a step
[01:49:01.199] back for most people who watch this
[01:49:02.960] channel, they know that I've been deep
[01:49:04.560] down the rabbit hole of Project
[01:49:05.840] Stargate. I've, like I said, I've talked
[01:49:07.600] to some of the remote viewers, but Pat
[01:49:09.280] Price is like this OG. When it comes to
[01:49:11.440] the OG original remote viewers, it's Pat
[01:49:13.520] Price and Ingo Swan. Like, they're the
[01:49:15.440] two considered the very best. Ingoing
[01:49:18.239] basically established all the protocols
[01:49:20.080] that were then taught to the Fort Me
[01:49:21.679] guys. But Pat Price is sort of
[01:49:23.600] >> broke mold.
[01:49:24.480] >> Yeah. Poured right through. But Patric
[01:49:27.199] is this sort of like mythical figure
[01:49:29.199] because he has an untimely strange depth
[01:49:32.480] where um so first of all as you pointed
[01:49:35.119] out they're both
[01:49:36.960] >> almost like two timing for the Church of
[01:49:39.040] Scientology at one point that seems to
[01:49:41.360] come to an end. The CIA brings Pat Price
[01:49:44.719] directly into their orbit. He leaves
[01:49:47.600] project Stargate and then sort of goes
[01:49:49.840] black. And from my understanding even to
[01:49:52.719] this day when you try to like a lot of
[01:49:55.199] the documents having to do with Pat
[01:49:57.119] Price have not been declassified and I
[01:49:59.280] and I think maybe foyers have been
[01:50:00.880] rejected about about him as well.
[01:50:03.440] Absolutely. So what do you think? First
[01:50:05.760] of all, continue the story because I
[01:50:06.960] want to hear we'll get all the files.
[01:50:08.960] >> Yeah. Okay. Okay.
[01:50:09.679] >> We'll get all those files.
[01:50:10.800] >> Okay.
[01:50:11.199] >> Yeah. I mean and I've seen the files.
[01:50:14.239] >> The ones that are still classified too.
[01:50:16.400] >> Yes. Uh and so that so uh and that was
[01:50:21.199] uh I was kind of astonished that they've
[01:50:23.920] got that capacity to be able to to uh
[01:50:27.119] amp up
[01:50:28.400] >> what whatever that telepathic
[01:50:30.719] communication mechanism is that takes
[01:50:33.920] place that they've got some technology.
[01:50:36.880] Well, it turns out that almost certainly
[01:50:38.719] that helmet is the helmet that they got
[01:50:40.960] at Roswell that [snorts] was in the
[01:50:42.880] craft that that uh that actually uh
[01:50:46.239] Colonel uh Corso talked about. Yeah.
[01:50:49.040] >> Didn't didn't talk much about it, but it
[01:50:51.199] was there and they assumed that was the
[01:50:53.280] helmet by means of which they piloted
[01:50:55.840] the craft telepathically.
[01:50:58.480] >> Okay. Wow. That's that's that's quite a
[01:51:00.480] claim. That's incredible. Yeah. So, so
[01:51:03.199] that's the second file. have Christ
[01:51:05.119] projecting his consciousness.
[01:51:06.880] >> That's right.
[01:51:07.280] >> Uh to do and they they just did that to
[01:51:09.600] see if it would work basically because
[01:51:11.280] it seemed like
[01:51:12.080] >> all I do is know they took him there and
[01:51:13.920] did it and had the record of it and uh
[01:51:16.719] he obviously told I guess it must have
[01:51:20.639] told Ingo about it because it was a file
[01:51:23.760] from Ingo
[01:51:24.960] >> about what they had done.
[01:51:26.080] >> Okay.
[01:51:26.560] >> You know, and then they showed me the
[01:51:28.719] third file. Yeah. Uh and I said that's
[01:51:31.360] it. I'm out. I'm I'm not going to do it,
[01:51:34.320] you know.
[01:51:35.199] >> So, what was the third file?
[01:51:36.719] >> It was their fair game file.
[01:51:38.480] >> Okay. Which is
[01:51:39.920] >> assassination file.
[01:51:40.960] >> Oh, wow. Wow.
[01:51:43.440] >> Of anybody who betrays the church.
[01:51:46.880] And I said, that's not going to happen.
[01:51:49.040] And then they're, oh, come on. You know,
[01:51:50.639] the Catholic Church does it, you know,
[01:51:52.159] the CIA does it. And I like that. I
[01:51:54.000] said, hey, yeah, but I'm not responsible
[01:51:56.719] for them, you know. So, I'm not going to
[01:51:58.800] do that, you know. I'm not going to
[01:52:00.239] participate in that at all. And so I
[01:52:01.920] just got him worked out.
[01:52:03.280] >> That's incredible. Were you were you
[01:52:05.599] worried for yourself at that point?
[01:52:07.199] >> No.
[01:52:08.239] >> No,
[01:52:08.800] >> man.
[01:52:09.760] >> Yeah, that's that's spooky stuff. And
[01:52:11.840] yeah, and I mean there's even part of me
[01:52:13.440] to this day that's reluctant to want to
[01:52:15.280] talk about it because they are so
[01:52:16.639] cutthroat in who they go after when it
[01:52:18.960] comes to their who they consider to be
[01:52:20.719] their adversaries. But but yeah, at some
[01:52:22.960] point it seems like
[01:52:23.920] >> so do we.
[01:52:24.960] >> I mean, so does the Central Intelligence
[01:52:27.199] Agency. And not only that, but they
[01:52:28.800] target United States senators, you know,
[01:52:31.440] uh, and members of Congress. So, I mean,
[01:52:34.000] you know, that they are afraid of them.
[01:52:36.880] The the members of Congress are
[01:52:38.560] literally afraid of the CIA, uh, and the
[01:52:42.159] the offtheshelf operations that they
[01:52:44.560] engage in. You know, they've got and
[01:52:46.320] this that's they get what's coming to
[01:52:48.159] them because, you know, they've been
[01:52:49.520] kind of completely reticent in allowing
[01:52:52.080] allowing this to go on that. They know
[01:52:53.840] that the CIA is assassinating foreign
[01:52:55.679] heads of state. They know that they're
[01:52:57.520] assassinating people and blackmailing
[01:52:59.520] people and torturing people and
[01:53:01.599] everything else and they say, "Oh, it's
[01:53:03.280] kind of okay, you know, as long as
[01:53:04.719] they're doing it to somebody else, you
[01:53:06.639] know, but that's what you get, you know,
[01:53:08.960] and and that's what's happened." So they
[01:53:10.800] they target, you know, that we we know
[01:53:14.239] details of the targeting of Frank Church
[01:53:16.800] they targeted, you know.
[01:53:18.239] >> Yeah. Frank Church was unseated
[01:53:20.800] immediately after his next election
[01:53:22.639] after chairing the the Church Committee,
[01:53:24.400] the Select Committee on Intelligence
[01:53:25.679] Abuse. You know, they they poured money
[01:53:27.840] into his uh Senate race in Idaho, you
[01:53:32.639] know, and we tracked the money came
[01:53:34.400] right out of the Nugan Han Bank in in
[01:53:36.400] Australia through two South African
[01:53:38.719] banks in into the election and spent
[01:53:42.960] millions of dollars publicizing the fact
[01:53:45.199] that Frank Church supported the Equal
[01:53:46.960] Rights Amendment. wild,
[01:53:48.800] >> you know, and that he supported the
[01:53:50.800] regulation of automatic weapons,
[01:53:53.040] >> you know, and they just pounded away at
[01:53:54.880] him and bounced him right out of office.
[01:53:56.560] Did the same thing to Dick Clark from
[01:53:58.080] Iowa for uh Senator Dick Clark, who's
[01:54:00.719] opposed to their covert operations in in
[01:54:02.960] Africa. Did it also to uh uh uh
[01:54:07.920] uh uh what's his name? uh buy Birch Pie
[01:54:11.760] out of Indiana,
[01:54:13.040] >> you know, and bounced them out because
[01:54:15.040] they were opposed to uh certain illegal
[01:54:17.760] activities that the CIA was engaged in
[01:54:19.520] and they turned them out of office just
[01:54:21.280] like that. And the senators know that.
[01:54:24.639] >> Yeah. Senators know that.
[01:54:26.320] >> So you so you come into contact way back
[01:54:28.719] in the 70s with the reality of these
[01:54:30.719] like psychical programs. But so so
[01:54:33.440] what's your your next contact with the
[01:54:36.000] reality of this of these sigh op not SCO
[01:54:39.599] ops but sigh operations or psychotronic
[01:54:42.719] operations? It was the uh it was the
[01:54:45.520] well I knew I knew that from all the
[01:54:48.639] information about direct contacts cuz
[01:54:50.960] when I was legal counsel for John Mack
[01:54:53.840] uh at Harvard uh when he got dragged up
[01:54:56.480] in front of the uh faculty committee,
[01:54:58.719] you know, I ended up becoming legal
[01:55:00.480] counsel for the his peer group, the
[01:55:02.560] project on extraordinary experience
[01:55:04.480] research and they were doing lots of
[01:55:06.800] research on psychic power. Okay. uh in
[01:55:10.560] addition to the UFO stuff that he was
[01:55:13.119] that that that uh Karen Wlowski who was
[01:55:15.679] the executive director there wanted to
[01:55:17.760] have other things that they were looking
[01:55:19.760] at other phenomenon and so the sigh
[01:55:22.719] phenomenon that they had encountered
[01:55:24.320] that John had encountered in his
[01:55:26.639] interview of all the experiencers uh
[01:55:29.599] knew that this was going on and so that
[01:55:32.480] they had broadened out their uh their uh
[01:55:35.599] scope uh from just UFO stuff to these
[01:55:38.800] other kind of psychic
[01:55:40.320] activities that people engaged in
[01:55:42.639] >> and so I got to see a lot of that
[01:55:44.639] information about what they were doing
[01:55:46.719] in there. So I encountered that uh and
[01:55:49.679] so that I was really interested in the
[01:55:51.920] fact that they that they had this kind
[01:55:53.760] of dual agenda of the UFO phenomenon and
[01:55:57.119] all of this other sigh phenomenon of
[01:55:59.360] human beings being able to do these kind
[01:56:01.440] of extraordinary things. Uh and so right
[01:56:04.000] from that point from 1994 to 2004 when
[01:56:07.280] John got killed uh uh accidentally to
[01:56:11.440] make it clear uh but uh that you know I
[01:56:14.639] was kind of aware of all of that stuff
[01:56:17.040] that was going on. And so when when I
[01:56:19.599] was contacted uh later in 2021
[01:56:23.440] by uh Lou Alzando uh to become his
[01:56:26.800] attorney uh and I started you know
[01:56:29.199] getting to talk with with Lou in in some
[01:56:31.840] depth you know he started telling me
[01:56:34.000] about uh these other
[01:56:36.880] >> aspects of the program. Okay. uh one of
[01:56:39.679] which was this sigh phenomena because I
[01:56:41.760] would ask him I said look at what's
[01:56:43.679] what's the story on the these craft
[01:56:46.080] being telepathically
[01:56:47.920] uh navigated and stuff like that because
[01:56:49.599] I've got all kinds of information about
[01:56:51.199] that uh and uh and uh I I can't go into
[01:56:55.840] great depths about he because he was
[01:56:57.760] extremely careful
[01:56:59.119] >> not to reveal to me anything that he
[01:57:01.760] wasn't authorized to reveal to me. I
[01:57:04.639] don't know what the dynamic is by means
[01:57:06.800] of which he may have been author because
[01:57:08.480] I know he was authorized to tell things
[01:57:10.080] to Congress
[01:57:11.679] >> uh and uh in the context of my
[01:57:13.840] representing him and going to the
[01:57:15.679] inspector general and stuff. Uh I'm not
[01:57:18.719] aware of whether he was authorized to
[01:57:20.880] tell me things that uh that others
[01:57:23.760] wouldn't know about, but uh I was able
[01:57:26.880] to find out about him, [clears throat]
[01:57:28.560] you know, because I got to meet
[01:57:30.239] everybody else. He introduced me to Dave
[01:57:31.920] Grush, introduced me to Carl Nell, you
[01:57:34.080] know, I got to to meet all of the I got
[01:57:37.119] to meet virtually everybody.
[01:57:38.480] >> Yeah.
[01:57:39.040] >> Okay. And so what I do is I tend to talk
[01:57:42.000] to them,
[01:57:42.560] >> right?
[01:57:43.280] >> And try to figure out where their
[01:57:44.800] boundaries are.
[01:57:45.520] >> Yeah. You're synthesizing information
[01:57:47.040] from lots of sources. And what what kind
[01:57:49.280] of uh authority do they have to talk to
[01:57:51.520] me, you know, because obviously there
[01:57:54.239] was a reason that he called me as
[01:57:56.560] distinct from, you know, 10,000 other
[01:57:58.639] lawyers, you know, because I'd been the
[01:58:00.800] legal counsel for the Steven Greer's
[01:58:02.800] disclosure project for 20 years.
[01:58:04.719] >> Yeah. uh was at the time when Lou
[01:58:07.181] [clears throat] called me and uh so uh
[01:58:10.960] that's that's uh I was aware of this all
[01:58:14.000] the time that this was an important
[01:58:16.239] dimension of this whole thing uh
[01:58:19.626] [clears throat] and and I knew I knew uh
[01:58:21.920] from uh Corso uh with Paola Harris who
[01:58:28.159] was very close to to Philip Corso. Okay.
[01:58:30.719] >> You know, had lots and lots of details
[01:58:32.560] about Philip Corso. And Philip Corso,
[01:58:35.119] you know, had recovered this helmet. Uh,
[01:58:39.040] and that he never that that never went
[01:58:42.719] into any private corporations, you know,
[01:58:45.760] the other stuff did. The night night
[01:58:47.679] vision goggles, you know, the uh the
[01:58:50.239] fiber optics uh he was allowed to give
[01:58:53.280] out to other uh aerospace corporations.
[01:58:56.639] They did the the Kevlar the Kevlar vest
[01:58:59.520] stuff that all that ca all that came
[01:59:01.360] from Roswell uh crash uh but they didn't
[01:59:05.119] the the mysterious thing the helmet
[01:59:07.679] didn't go anywhere as far as I knew. He
[01:59:10.719] never talked about it and I actually got
[01:59:12.800] to look at the one that not not only his
[01:59:15.280] day after Roswell book but he he wrote a
[01:59:18.320] book in Italian
[01:59:20.800] >> that was barred from being distributed
[01:59:23.360] in the United States.
[01:59:24.400] >> Okay. I didn't know that. And so that
[01:59:26.639] there's this Italian diary like that he
[01:59:29.520] wrote uh that talks about the helmet uh
[01:59:33.040] and that and his his conviction that
[01:59:35.599] this was the source of navigating the
[01:59:37.360] craft. Okay. Uh and so that that's uh uh
[01:59:41.040] so that's how I got familiar with it to
[01:59:42.880] begin with. U and as it turns out it
[01:59:45.760] becomes more and more and more central
[01:59:51.280] >> uh to the entire phenomenon.
[01:59:54.560] >> Yeah. So, so you think and you think
[01:59:58.400] that was the same helmet that Pat Price
[02:00:00.159] used to do this operation to project his
[02:00:04.480] >> or maybe it was derivative technology.
[02:00:06.400] >> That's I say I'm not sure that they have
[02:00:08.719] been able to figure out how to do it.
[02:00:10.800] >> Yeah.
[02:00:11.440] >> Technologically, but because they had
[02:00:13.440] the original.
[02:00:14.320] >> Mhm.
[02:00:14.960] >> And so that my sense was that that's
[02:00:17.040] what that was. So that they had been
[02:00:19.119] given access to it uh to experiment with
[02:00:22.320] what could be done about it. So the
[02:00:24.159] other major piece of this of course is
[02:00:25.840] now I I guess this is over a year ago at
[02:00:28.159] this point is you have the revelations
[02:00:29.599] of Jake Barber saying like not only is
[02:00:33.119] sigh as we all as anybody who's into UFO
[02:00:35.679] lore knows not only is that central to
[02:00:37.920] the way these beings seem to communicate
[02:00:39.679] and maybe even pilot the craft but no
[02:00:42.159] this is a real thing within the
[02:00:44.480] militaryindustrial complex and
[02:00:46.239] intelligence agencies and military in
[02:00:49.040] terms of there are psionic assets or um
[02:00:52.000] whatever they're actually call. I get
[02:00:53.599] the sense that that's probably not the
[02:00:54.960] actual terminology, but anyway, that
[02:00:57.040] they're involved somehow in this legacy
[02:01:00.080] program effort to down and retrieve and
[02:01:03.360] reverse engineer uh you know, NHI
[02:01:06.880] technology and you seem to also think
[02:01:10.960] >> that that is true.
[02:01:12.320] >> Oh, yes. Okay.
[02:01:13.360] >> I'm positive that's true.
[02:01:15.040] >> How are you positive?
[02:01:18.239] because I've talked to the guys that
[02:01:19.760] have been involved in
[02:01:20.560] >> like actual psionic asset guys. Okay.
[02:01:23.840] >> And and and what did they tell you
[02:01:26.400] >> that uh
[02:01:28.560] it's it's it's interesting because
[02:01:30.480] they're the they the the project started
[02:01:34.000] out being interested primarily in the uh
[02:01:38.159] the telepathic communication with the
[02:01:40.639] craft. You know how Yeah. in that they
[02:01:43.440] discovered that that in the craft that
[02:01:46.960] uh in addition to the fiber optics that
[02:01:49.199] are in the craft that they're that
[02:01:52.320] they've uh that the ET people obviously
[02:01:57.199] mastered the stem cell technology and
[02:02:00.239] that they've got stem cell uh in the
[02:02:03.199] craft.
[02:02:03.760] >> Oh wow.
[02:02:04.239] >> That they've got dendrites
[02:02:06.400] >> uh and synapses uh that are actually
[02:02:09.360] from the brains of the ET people.
[02:02:12.159] They've done their stem cell project
[02:02:14.480] into generating synapses and dendrites
[02:02:17.679] into the craft so that it's
[02:02:19.440] semi-scentient. The craft that accounts
[02:02:21.760] for this feeling that people get when
[02:02:23.280] they see the craft. Sometimes the thing
[02:02:25.440] seems to be alive in some way. Uh and uh
[02:02:28.639] and so that that that we know about uh
[02:02:32.400] and uh and but but more importantly
[02:02:37.360] more importantly
[02:02:39.440] uh the uh method by which they actually
[02:02:43.920] transport
[02:02:45.760] from their star system to ours
[02:02:49.840] isn't linear.
[02:02:52.159] >> That makes sense. Yeah. It's it's
[02:02:54.159] through uh it's through a form of remote
[02:02:58.159] projection you know like Ingo Swan for
[02:03:00.080] example in in penetration talks about uh
[02:03:03.360] projecting conceptually himself up onto
[02:03:05.920] the surface of the moon.
[02:03:06.800] >> Yeah. Like billocating
[02:03:07.920] >> and then billocating up there some sort
[02:03:10.320] of and there's some sort of a plasma
[02:03:13.119] type of phenomenon that occurs because
[02:03:16.000] people can see him there.
[02:03:18.719] He he became aware of the fact that the
[02:03:20.480] beings that he saw on the surface of the
[02:03:22.320] moon became aware of the fact that he
[02:03:24.320] was there. So there's some kind of
[02:03:26.080] phenomenological
[02:03:27.760] thing that's happening there, right? Uh
[02:03:29.920] and what it appears to be true here is
[02:03:33.119] that this is the means by which they
[02:03:35.280] actually transport that it's not just
[02:03:37.840] super fast, not just you know super
[02:03:40.400] luminal. Uh what it is is that they are
[02:03:43.440] able to direct their consciousness to a
[02:03:47.440] particular location. Uh say at the edge
[02:03:50.880] of our solar system
[02:03:53.360] and then they've got some kind of what
[02:03:55.360] they call psionic assist
[02:03:58.320] >> is the actual program. There's some sort
[02:04:00.960] of technology that they have that is
[02:04:03.840] able to uh ramp up whatever [snorts] the
[02:04:07.440] phenomenon phenomenon is of the actual
[02:04:10.080] biologically generated phenomenon of uh
[02:04:13.440] of this uh uh directed intention that
[02:04:16.800] can collapse the wave function, right?
[02:04:19.840] and that there's some sort of u
[02:04:22.400] technological psionic assist that they
[02:04:26.000] can focus on a particular location and
[02:04:28.400] they can ramp up the the phenomenon to
[02:04:30.960] the extent of transporting the ship bang
[02:04:33.760] bang like that. Uh and it just
[02:04:36.560] materialize dematerializes and
[02:04:38.400] materializes almost instantaneously at
[02:04:41.360] the other location. Uh and that's the
[02:04:43.760] one that's freaking them out totally.
[02:04:46.000] >> Well, yeah. I mean,
[02:04:47.040] >> they're totally freaked out by that.
[02:04:48.400] Yeah, if that exists, I mean, that is a
[02:04:50.000] godlike ability on the level of
[02:04:52.480] something that I I mean, of travel.
[02:04:54.159] >> Yeah. I mean, the these are like the
[02:04:55.440] kinds of like onlogical shock I think
[02:04:57.440] people don't think about when they think
[02:04:59.520] about, you know, full-blown disclosure
[02:05:01.679] is, you know, not only is it advanced
[02:05:03.920] technology, advanced ships, like nuts
[02:05:06.400] and bolts stuff. It's really our
[02:05:08.239] understanding of reality itself that
[02:05:10.560] will be completely turned on its head in
[02:05:13.040] that, you know,
[02:05:14.159] >> we think this physical reality is real.
[02:05:16.000] We think this body is real. But what
[02:05:18.239] technologies like that imply is that
[02:05:20.639] there's a layer of reality that we're
[02:05:22.480] pretty much ignorant of as human beings
[02:05:24.159] and that we lack the capacity to
[02:05:25.760] interact with at least most of us
[02:05:27.360] >> except for the spiritual mythologies of
[02:05:31.119] of the ability you know the famous Sai
[02:05:33.199] Baba story. The famous Sai Baba story
[02:05:35.520] when Sai Bababa uh generated this uh
[02:05:39.760] shocki you know that little powder that
[02:05:41.840] the that the mystics knew. Uh yeah like
[02:05:44.480] a this is like a city right? Yes, it's a
[02:05:47.040] city and they can generate this kind of
[02:05:49.440] powder and they sprinkle it places and
[02:05:51.040] they sprinkle on people and uh and some
[02:05:53.520] person that experienced that with Sai
[02:05:56.239] Bababa said well you know that's pretty
[02:05:58.000] impressive but a lot of other saints can
[02:06:00.080] do that you know what about being able
[02:06:02.480] to manifest something more sophisticated
[02:06:05.280] and Sai Bababa said like what he said
[02:06:08.560] how about a Swiss watch [laughter]
[02:06:11.520] and Sai Baba rubbed his fingers together
[02:06:13.360] like this and like that and then handed
[02:06:15.040] him a Swiss watch.
[02:06:16.239] >> Mhm.
[02:06:17.440] >> The guy was completely flabbergasted.
[02:06:19.760] Full Swiss watch. He looked at it, had
[02:06:21.360] serial numbers on it, hold the whole
[02:06:22.960] nine yards. Uh, and he took the watch
[02:06:26.320] and ended up searching it out to find
[02:06:28.560] out where it was manufactured and went
[02:06:30.560] to Switzerland to the shop where it was
[02:06:32.639] actually put together and goes into the
[02:06:35.199] shop and says, "Uh, he hands the thing
[02:06:37.679] to the shop owner and he said, "Is is
[02:06:40.079] this one of your watches?" Guy looks at
[02:06:42.079] the thing, says, "Yes, yeah, this is he
[02:06:44.400] said." And so the guy says, "Well, where
[02:06:47.280] whatever happened to it, this watch?" He
[02:06:48.960] said, "You know," he said, "This is
[02:06:50.239] really amazing, this watch." He said, "I
[02:06:51.760] remember." He said, "Some fellow with
[02:06:54.960] big hair, uh, you know, this kind of
[02:06:57.280] saffron robe came walking into the store
[02:07:00.560] and he handed me these little cubes,
[02:07:02.880] gold cubes like this and and bought this
[02:07:05.840] watch." And it turns out it was at the
[02:07:07.920] exact same moment,
[02:07:10.239] >> Whoa.
[02:07:11.199] >> that he manifested it. So the idea is he
[02:07:13.360] was like billocating somehow.
[02:07:15.199] >> Yeah.
[02:07:15.760] >> What where does this story come from?
[02:07:18.079] >> It's a Sai Baba story. It's a famous Sai
[02:07:19.920] Baba story.
[02:07:20.719] >> Okay.
[02:07:21.119] >> You know uh and uh and so that uh so
[02:07:24.719] that the the the nexus here which is
[02:07:26.960] what we're getting to
[02:07:28.480] >> is the nexus between the capacity of our
[02:07:31.760] human species to be able to do these
[02:07:35.119] things. You know because you know it
[02:07:37.119] wasn't just Jesus of Nazareth that
[02:07:39.440] displayed these kind of capabilities.
[02:07:41.440] you know, the Buddha in in Lasu and the
[02:07:44.079] other major prophets. Well, they turned
[02:07:47.679] out to be prophets because everybody was
[02:07:49.280] freaked out the fact that they could do
[02:07:50.719] these things and they built up this
[02:07:52.639] entire kind of religious community
[02:07:55.199] around them. Uh but and Tahard writes
[02:07:58.800] about it. they hard to shut down, you
[02:08:00.960] know, and and that he and he he was
[02:08:03.840] implying throughout his writings that uh
[02:08:06.880] that Jesus was a mutation
[02:08:09.920] >> uh of where our human family is headed
[02:08:14.320] >> uh teologically and biologically that
[02:08:16.960] we're evolving. you know we we've come
[02:08:18.960] up out of homoids and you know in
[02:08:21.199] Cromagnon and and Oropythecus and you
[02:08:24.159] know we've come up to this thing uh
[02:08:26.000] where we are now at the point of homo
[02:08:27.760] sapiens and I you know homo sapiens are
[02:08:31.199] all going to be dead someday just like
[02:08:33.440] you don't find chromagnan men running
[02:08:35.440] around right now oropythecus
[02:08:38.239] >> you know that they run their they run
[02:08:40.159] their tour uh and then they evolve into
[02:08:42.960] the next stage of our our teological
[02:08:45.679] unfolding right Uh and so we're that
[02:08:49.040] that this really interesting thing
[02:08:50.880] happened back in 1968 in May of 1968
[02:08:54.079] that I had graduated from the college
[02:08:56.079] Harvard College in ' 67 gone up to the
[02:08:58.560] law school and I got word that uh that
[02:09:02.239] uh uh the uh uh Crane Britain who was
[02:09:05.920] the head of the department of
[02:09:07.840] intellectual history for Harvard
[02:09:10.000] University uh was going to be retiring.
[02:09:12.960] >> Okay.
[02:09:13.280] >> Uh and he'd been teaching there for like
[02:09:15.360] 50 years.
[02:09:17.520] uh and uh and uh I I knew all kinds of
[02:09:20.800] guys that had taken various courses from
[02:09:22.560] him, right? And uh and he had been asked
[02:09:25.520] to uh speak about in his final lecture
[02:09:28.639] uh what the most important single
[02:09:30.960] intellectual insight was that he had
[02:09:34.800] encountered in his entire 50 years of of
[02:09:37.760] this field. Uh and so he gathered to to
[02:09:41.440] do his final lecture and men came from
[02:09:44.239] all around the world. uh who had over
[02:09:46.800] the past 50 years taken his courses at
[02:09:48.880] different times because we were the last
[02:09:51.040] allmale class in 1967 at Harvard under
[02:09:54.800] 350 years. So they were like all men
[02:09:57.864] [laughter] had come from all around the
[02:09:59.840] world to come here to be at this final
[02:10:01.920] lecture and they had to move it to a
[02:10:03.760] bigger a big great bigger hall. So I was
[02:10:06.719] there and he said uh I've been asked uh
[02:10:09.920] to address uh here in my final lecture
[02:10:12.400] the most important single intellectual
[02:10:14.560] insight that I've really ever
[02:10:16.639] encountered. He said this is easy. He
[02:10:18.400] said said all of the I believe all the
[02:10:20.800] greatest minds uh and thinkers that I've
[02:10:22.960] encountered have come to the common
[02:10:24.880] conclusion that our human species is
[02:10:27.920] right on the brink of moving into the
[02:10:32.000] next manifestation of our species that
[02:10:35.520] we've come through and and homoerectus
[02:10:38.719] and neand and you know and none of them
[02:10:42.079] are around anymore.
[02:10:43.360] >> Yeah. And there'll come a point in time
[02:10:44.960] when none of the homo homo sapiens will
[02:10:47.360] be around. But there's going to be the
[02:10:49.199] whole next phase, he said. And that the
[02:10:51.440] the factor that is going to be according
[02:10:55.040] to these insights, the factor that's
[02:10:57.280] going to distinguish our homo sapien
[02:10:59.920] species from the next it
[02:11:03.199] integration of our species is going to
[02:11:05.840] be a faculty. The development of a
[02:11:08.560] faculty,
[02:11:09.760] >> faculty like seeing and hearing
[02:11:13.599] that have evolved up out of time
[02:11:15.599] organically out of life living matter.
[02:11:18.400] Resp like the eyeballs responsive to the
[02:11:22.560] stimuli of the electric magnetic
[02:11:25.280] vibration of light that have through
[02:11:28.159] some sort of tropic force of drawn up
[02:11:30.960] into material manifestation the eyeball
[02:11:34.400] from into living uh creatures. He said
[02:11:37.520] that uh in the same way with hearing
[02:11:40.079] that you know that the electromagnetic
[02:11:42.239] vibration of sound has its own
[02:11:44.400] particular pitch and amplitude has has
[02:11:46.880] drawn up into material manifestation the
[02:11:49.520] complex hearing mechanism and that that
[02:11:53.040] that is going on now. There is a new
[02:11:54.880] faculty that is evolving in the human
[02:11:56.719] family uh that is able to directly
[02:11:59.840] immediately experientially
[02:12:02.159] encounter the uh the bonding phenomenon
[02:12:06.079] that bonds every single ultimately
[02:12:08.079] irreducible integer of matter in the
[02:12:09.840] entire physical universe into one
[02:12:12.000] unified harmonic hole. And that by dent
[02:12:15.119] of this direct experience
[02:12:17.440] like seeing or hearing
[02:12:19.599] >> uh that that you can through this
[02:12:22.400] experience you can discern immediately
[02:12:24.400] and experientially what form of conduct
[02:12:28.000] human conduct either individual or
[02:12:29.920] collective is either harmonious with or
[02:12:32.960] disharmonious to the natural order of
[02:12:35.760] the universe.
[02:12:37.920] >> He said and that's why so many of you
[02:12:39.760] men refuse to go fight in this war.
[02:12:42.320] >> Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, if you're
[02:12:44.320] tapped into this larger field of
[02:12:45.920] consciousness,
[02:12:46.880] >> it becomes absurd. Becomes absolutely
[02:12:49.360] absurd to do the things that we do to
[02:12:51.280] each other.
[02:12:52.239] >> It doesn't make any sense at all if you
[02:12:54.800] have the adequate scope of reality.
[02:12:57.840] >> Uh okay. Because I mean people almost
[02:12:59.599] whatever else you can say about them,
[02:13:01.119] they try with the exception of Trump
[02:13:03.520] maybe, you know, they try to comport
[02:13:05.520] their conduct with reality,
[02:13:08.239] >> you know, uh because that's the
[02:13:09.920] reference they have. It's the reference
[02:13:11.760] we all have for what's right and wrong.
[02:13:13.760] >> Yeah.
[02:13:14.400] >> You know, and and that's what that was
[02:13:15.920] what Crane Britain said. Uh and then I
[02:13:18.480] think Tahard was aware of that. Yeah.
[02:13:20.480] And Tahhard wrote about it and that's
[02:13:22.320] why he was banned.
[02:13:23.840] >> Right.
[02:13:24.320] >> He was banned by Ratzinger.
[02:13:26.719] >> Ratzinger before he became Benedict the
[02:13:29.280] 16th, the pope.
[02:13:30.560] >> I didn't know that. Ratzinger was the
[02:13:32.480] head of the doctrine of the faith.
[02:13:33.840] >> Wow.
[02:13:34.239] >> And banned Tahart from publicly speaking
[02:13:36.960] about it. For people that don't know
[02:13:38.400] him, he's like this Jesuit intellectual
[02:13:40.560] who's talking about all of these really
[02:13:42.480] advanced philosophical concepts like the
[02:13:45.119] uh the noophere and like the idea that
[02:13:47.280] the planet could be conscious that there
[02:13:49.280] could be these larger consciousness
[02:13:50.880] structures that human beings would
[02:13:52.480] actually eventually evolve to tap into
[02:13:55.199] and he was also open to things like life
[02:13:56.800] on other planets and and things like
[02:13:58.719] that.
[02:13:59.280] >> That's tear dean,
[02:14:00.880] >> you know, and uh he was a
[02:14:02.079] paleontologist. He actually discovered
[02:14:03.920] pay king man.
[02:14:05.199] >> Oh, interesting. So, so presumably
[02:14:07.520] >> Jesuits are cool.
[02:14:09.280] >> Yeah, [laughter] there's definitely some
[02:14:10.320] like Shardon is one of those thinkers
[02:14:12.400] that I definitely want to read more of
[02:14:14.159] because he was certainly ahead of his
[02:14:15.520] time, not just for a Jesuit, but for for
[02:14:17.199] anybody. That's right.
[02:14:18.079] >> Um,
[02:14:19.199] >> but presumably, you'd have to think that
[02:14:21.920] whatever these beings or entities are,
[02:14:24.639] they must be more aware of this field.
[02:14:26.560] They must be more aware of this maybe 8
[02:14:29.520] billion years long,
[02:14:30.560] >> right? If they even have like a
[02:14:32.639] conventional evolution, right? if if our
[02:14:35.440] understanding of the the universe like
[02:14:37.760] comports with our understanding of time
[02:14:39.360] and all of that stuff. But um
[02:14:41.840] >> so does that lead you to believe that
[02:14:43.840] whatever these entities are these like
[02:14:46.480] NHI are that they are benevolent then
[02:14:50.000] cuz wouldn't they also have a a better
[02:14:52.159] understanding of this or do you think
[02:14:53.440] that there's a a mix of benevolent and
[02:14:55.679] malevolent? I think that our our concept
[02:14:58.079] of benevolence really has to do with the
[02:15:01.679] the degree to which one is honestly uh
[02:15:05.679] comporting your conduct in in harmony
[02:15:09.280] with the nature of the universe. You
[02:15:12.560] know that's that's the reference for
[02:15:14.320] good and bad you know. So that and then
[02:15:16.960] we attach the other adjectives to it is
[02:15:18.960] benevolent. You know there a benevolent
[02:15:21.199] person you know bene benefa you know
[02:15:23.360] that they're they're doing good things.
[02:15:25.199] Yeah. And good the difference between
[02:15:26.880] good and bad is whether it's harmonious
[02:15:29.599] to uh with or or disharmonious to the
[02:15:32.880] natural order of things. It's it's the
[02:15:34.800] ultimate search for the reference the
[02:15:36.159] normative reference for good and bad.
[02:15:38.320] It's the root of all ethics. Uh and
[02:15:41.440] that's that's what this is about. And
[02:15:43.199] that's why it's so uh tragic, literally
[02:15:46.480] tragic to have the uh the people in, you
[02:15:50.560] know, in the United States military and
[02:15:51.920] intelligence community is, you know,
[02:15:54.560] want to they they see this astonishing
[02:15:57.199] opportunity right in front of them for
[02:15:59.119] this extraordinary step of our whole
[02:16:00.960] human family out into the stars and all
[02:16:03.440] they can think of is trying to make
[02:16:04.719] weapons out of it. You know, it's the
[02:16:06.320] old it's the old Sufi saying, you know,
[02:16:08.480] when a pickpocket meets a saint, all he
[02:16:10.880] sees are his pockets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:16:13.760] Wow. Because because we are probably
[02:16:16.320] running in the last I don't know I'm
[02:16:17.599] going to guess like 20 or so minutes we
[02:16:19.679] probably have that we can be here.
[02:16:21.440] >> Um a couple questions I definitely want
[02:16:23.840] to get in is I want to go back to Pat
[02:16:25.760] Price because because he's just such a
[02:16:27.599] fascinating figure to me. It's a point
[02:16:29.040] of personal interest all all of this
[02:16:30.880] stuff. Um because you know it seems like
[02:16:32.960] bar none
[02:16:34.639] >> even Ingo it seemed like acknowledged
[02:16:36.800] that he was one of the best if not the
[02:16:39.280] best remote viewer. No, Ingo I talked to
[02:16:41.359] Ingo Swan at length about this, you
[02:16:43.359] know. I went and met him at his uh his
[02:16:45.920] apartment in New York and spent the
[02:16:48.000] whole day with him talking about this up
[02:16:49.679] on his roof, you know. Uh and he was
[02:16:52.559] perfectly clear that Pat Swan or that
[02:16:54.800] Pat Price was the superior of all of
[02:16:57.519] them.
[02:16:57.760] >> Wow. Okay. So, what what do you think
[02:17:00.000] what do you think happened to Pat Price?
[02:17:01.599] And for people that that don't know, he
[02:17:03.679] kind of mysteriously passes away in Las
[02:17:05.920] Vegas while he's with um Russell Tar and
[02:17:09.519] uh and Halutoff, right? Like he's
[02:17:11.679] visiting them. And he's in this period
[02:17:13.280] of time after he left Project Stargate
[02:17:15.760] and he's working directly for the CIA
[02:17:18.319] and then he he either has a natural
[02:17:21.040] heart attack and dies or something weird
[02:17:23.439] happens and he's like just taken off the
[02:17:25.359] board by some force like could could
[02:17:27.280] have been the Russians, could have been
[02:17:28.399] the CIA, could have been the
[02:17:29.439] Scientologists.
[02:17:30.960] Do you have an opinion on this?
[02:17:32.479] >> I don't because I haven't been tasked to
[02:17:34.559] find out.
[02:17:35.200] >> Yeah.
[02:17:35.679] >> You know, uh, and so I don't I don't
[02:17:38.240] guess or speculate at things, you know,
[02:17:40.319] I've been very fortunate in in being
[02:17:42.719] given the opportunity to investigate
[02:17:45.280] very specific things professionally, you
[02:17:47.840] know, in in the context. And of course,
[02:17:49.439] that's part of why we designed the
[02:17:51.040] Cristic Institute is to be able to help
[02:17:53.439] discern by ourselves what we're going to
[02:17:55.200] look at, right? You know, and the
[02:17:56.800] cristic institute is named by Kai
[02:17:59.920] Shardan.
[02:18:00.800] >> Uh he refers to this force that bonds
[02:18:03.200] every single ultimately irreducible
[02:18:04.800] integer of matter in the universe into
[02:18:06.880] one unified harmonic hole. He calls that
[02:18:09.439] the cristic force.
[02:18:10.960] >> Cool.
[02:18:11.359] >> And that's with our institute is the
[02:18:12.800] cristic institute.
[02:18:14.080] >> That's how that was founded out of the
[02:18:15.519] Jesuit headquarters in 1980 in
[02:18:17.280] Washington. Uh and we we functioned and
[02:18:20.559] did a whole bunch of different cases
[02:18:22.080] including the Ron Contra case.
[02:18:24.000] >> Yeah. They were the ones that that
[02:18:26.080] generated the special prosecutor, got
[02:18:28.080] the people indicted in the the Reagan
[02:18:30.160] Bush administration. Uh and and George
[02:18:32.719] Bush senior ordered the IRS to re revoke
[02:18:37.040] our 501c3 tax exempt charter on the
[02:18:40.160] grounds that we were engaged in
[02:18:41.439] political activity against him and his
[02:18:43.760] political allies.
[02:18:45.040] >> Uh which we weren't. What we were doing
[02:18:47.280] is we were investigating criminal
[02:18:48.960] activity uh and unconstitutional
[02:18:52.319] conduct. it just happened to include
[02:18:54.160] him, you know, and so when he decided
[02:18:56.319] that he was going to run for reelection
[02:18:57.840] in 1992,
[02:18:59.760] uh, after having been elected in 1988
[02:19:01.920] after serving as vice president for
[02:19:03.519] Reagan for the two terms, you know, uh,
[02:19:06.160] we were publicizing all the information
[02:19:08.000] that we knew about him and everybody
[02:19:09.840] else. Yeah. and when he decided he was
[02:19:12.000] going to run for a second term, he said,
[02:19:14.479] "Well, we were interfering in a
[02:19:16.240] candidate for elected office uh and that
[02:19:19.040] we were spreading information about him
[02:19:22.160] uh that was adverse to his his campaign
[02:19:24.960] and accused us of engaging in political
[02:19:27.040] activity which is prohibited to 501c3
[02:19:29.920] organizations." Uh and so he contacted
[02:19:32.880] the head of the IRS and told him to yank
[02:19:35.840] our C3,
[02:19:37.599] >> which they did.
[02:19:38.479] >> Wow.
[02:19:39.040] >> Yeah. And so it was interesting that
[02:19:42.000] when they did it uh there was a group
[02:19:44.559] out in California uh called the Romero
[02:19:47.920] Foundation
[02:19:49.280] >> uh that had been gathering money and
[02:19:51.120] giving money to poor people and stuff
[02:19:52.720] down in Latin America. Uh and uh when
[02:19:55.680] they found out that that had happened,
[02:19:57.359] they convened an emergency meeting of
[02:19:59.200] their board uh and elected me to be
[02:20:01.359] their president and general counsel and
[02:20:03.840] elected Sarah Nelson, our executive
[02:20:06.160] director and vice president to be their
[02:20:07.920] executive director and vice president
[02:20:09.680] and father Bill Davis who had been my
[02:20:11.680] superior Jesuit headquarters who was our
[02:20:13.760] secretary treasur. They elected him to
[02:20:15.840] be the secretary treasurer and then they
[02:20:17.680] all resigned
[02:20:18.960] >> and uh and sent us all their files
[02:20:20.776] [laughter] and that we became the Romero
[02:20:23.040] Institute and the Romero Institute is
[02:20:25.280] the 501c3 organization that is the
[02:20:28.160] founder of the new paradigm institute.
[02:20:30.800] >> Right. Yeah.
[02:20:31.439] >> It's a wholly integrated auxiliary
[02:20:32.960] project of our Romero Institute. Uh and
[02:20:36.479] that's we just kept on operating.
[02:20:39.120] >> So I'm not going to ask you to guess
[02:20:40.479] because you've told me multiple times
[02:20:42.392] [laughter] but um that you don't I can
[02:20:44.800] lay out the the schematic that you would
[02:20:47.280] lay out certain kind of uh alternative
[02:20:49.680] reasonable possibilities and and attach
[02:20:52.720] probability projections to them.
[02:20:54.800] >> Okay. Well, let me ask you it this way.
[02:20:56.720] What do you think the probability is
[02:20:58.720] that within the near future like let's
[02:21:00.240] just say the next
[02:21:02.399] >> seven years?
[02:21:03.040] >> Yeah. Yes. that we will get some
[02:21:06.319] meaningful level of official disclosure
[02:21:09.120] in terms of you know there is I mean
[02:21:11.840] we've already had people come forward
[02:21:13.359] and testify under oath there is NHI we
[02:21:15.840] do have craft we do have bodies but like
[02:21:18.319] that the people will have a level where
[02:21:20.080] they're satisfied to a degree where it
[02:21:22.800] will be the prepundonderance of evidence
[02:21:24.800] the the majority of people will say okay
[02:21:28.000] yes we are not alone there are these
[02:21:30.399] other beings of whatever I mean Even
[02:21:33.680] even if we don't know where they're
[02:21:35.040] from, just an official acknowledgement
[02:21:37.600] with undeniable proof that there is a
[02:21:40.319] presence here that is nonhuman, that is
[02:21:42.399] advanced, that is
[02:21:44.479] >> doing doing something. Do do you think
[02:21:46.560] we'll get that in a satisfactory way in
[02:21:48.720] that length of time?
[02:21:49.600] >> Yeah, within seven years we'll have it
[02:21:51.920] >> and it's going to be a process. It's
[02:21:53.359] going to unfold over seven years. Uh
[02:21:56.080] that's what's going on right now. Uh and
[02:21:58.880] it's happening. I mean these these kind
[02:22:01.280] of earthshaking revelations that have
[02:22:04.160] been made that we're in the process
[02:22:06.240] through the new paradigm institute of
[02:22:07.920] getting this information out into the
[02:22:09.840] hands of the people in a way that they
[02:22:11.920] can understand it and try to understand
[02:22:13.840] the context in which it exists. You know
[02:22:16.479] uh but the the the fact is that the uh
[02:22:18.880] that the process is underway right now.
[02:22:21.760] We are the the four generations that are
[02:22:25.600] alive right now are the ones that are
[02:22:27.520] going through the disclosure process. Uh
[02:22:29.840] and it's going to happen, you know, and
[02:22:31.680] it'll be completed within 7 years once
[02:22:34.240] once we get the actual official
[02:22:36.800] confirmation uh by the the sitting
[02:22:40.319] president, you know, and it won't be
[02:22:42.399] Trump. I don't believe he'll do that.
[02:22:44.160] >> Yeah. Yeah. Coming full circle here
[02:22:45.520] because we mentioned the the
[02:22:46.720] >> I don't I don't think he'll do that. I
[02:22:48.479] think what he'll try to do is he'll try
[02:22:50.160] to get the information and he's so
[02:22:52.640] completely self-interested and
[02:22:54.479] transactional. He's going to try to
[02:22:56.479] figure out how he can benefit from it
[02:22:58.319] >> before he's just going to give it away
[02:22:59.760] to everybody else,
[02:23:01.040] >> you know, and then he's going to send
[02:23:02.640] his sons out trying to figure out how to
[02:23:04.160] invest in the technology, you know, and
[02:23:06.960] uh and and set up a Bitcoin that is
[02:23:09.600] rooted in the market value of some of
[02:23:12.399] the key technologies.
[02:23:14.080] >> That's what he's going to do.
[02:23:15.520] >> Yeah. Well, the qu I guess the question
[02:23:17.600] would be from from somebody who's more
[02:23:19.600] optimistic and don't don't mistake me
[02:23:21.280] for someone who's more optimistic and I
[02:23:23.200] mean I would accuse you of that. Yeah.
[02:23:24.880] Yeah. But um but uh you could argue well
[02:23:28.000] it they're not mutually excl exclusive,
[02:23:30.080] right? Like you he could frontr run
[02:23:32.000] investments and stuff and then also
[02:23:33.680] still actually release meaningful
[02:23:35.680] information, but you don't even think
[02:23:36.960] that's going to happen this this
[02:23:38.479] administration. I think I think he's
[02:23:39.840] going to be desperately trying to uh
[02:23:43.120] figure out how he can get personal
[02:23:45.359] advantage from the information and he's
[02:23:47.840] going to try to get the people to
[02:23:49.280] provide him the information in his
[02:23:50.800] capacity as president. I think that his
[02:23:53.600] uh his uh agency as president is going
[02:23:57.680] downhill fast. I think that a lot of the
[02:24:00.240] people, the general staff, actually the
[02:24:02.479] military staff, the intelligence
[02:24:04.319] community is now aware of the fact that
[02:24:06.479] he is incredibly dangerous uh to their
[02:24:10.080] own ambitions, you know, uh and uh and
[02:24:13.280] that they're aware of the model of
[02:24:14.960] Hitler, you know, who was put into power
[02:24:18.160] by major financial interests here in the
[02:24:20.640] United States. They were Brown Brothers
[02:24:22.240] Haramman,
[02:24:23.200] >> you know, uh that actually financed the
[02:24:25.520] construction of the international
[02:24:26.640] headquarters of the Third Reich.
[02:24:27.840] >> Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Uh and uh and
[02:24:30.399] but he came off the leash, you know, and
[02:24:33.120] and did what he did, you know, and
[02:24:35.120] they're concerned about that about this
[02:24:37.600] with Trump.
[02:24:38.720] >> Trump's coming off the leash here. Uh
[02:24:41.200] >> we are finding ourselves embroiled in
[02:24:42.880] more and more conflict
[02:24:44.720] >> with no with no plan adequate of of how
[02:24:46.880] to get out of it. Uh not any clear
[02:24:49.200] objective that they really have in doing
[02:24:50.880] it. uh other than him exercising his ego
[02:24:54.080] uh and struting his stuff and he's now
[02:24:56.080] got uh the blood taste in his mouth of
[02:24:59.200] of deploying the military and stuff.
[02:25:01.040] He's going to got Cuba in his sights
[02:25:02.960] next. Well, the other the other
[02:25:05.120] possibility when it comes to the
[02:25:06.399] disclosure, you know, conversation is
[02:25:08.720] that there there's an orthogonal thing
[02:25:10.880] that occurs, right? A thing that is out
[02:25:12.560] of his control, out of our control, and
[02:25:14.399] it just makes itself known. And there's
[02:25:16.800] been speculation lately obviously you
[02:25:18.560] know we're we're on the precipice of a
[02:25:20.319] supposed uh revelation uh as forecasted
[02:25:23.040] by Chris Bledsoe and by you know there's
[02:25:25.200] there's a lot of things not and not just
[02:25:26.640] from them percolating into the zeitgeist
[02:25:29.040] claiming something's going to occur in
[02:25:30.479] 2026 2027 and and
[02:25:32.960] >> March actually March.
[02:25:34.080] >> Well yeah possibth
[02:25:36.720] I'm not going to hold my breath for that
[02:25:37.680] one.
[02:25:37.840] >> Yes Chris either closer you get to each
[02:25:40.319] one of these prognostications the lower
[02:25:42.399] the probabilities go it's going to
[02:25:43.920] happen
[02:25:44.319] >> right. Yeah, I mean we've seen a lot of
[02:25:45.840] prophecies come and go of course over
[02:25:47.520] the over the years in in so many
[02:25:49.840] different permutations, but do you but
[02:25:52.560] that aside, you know, any specific
[02:25:54.560] prophecy or prognostication about things
[02:25:57.120] coming in the future, do you think that
[02:25:58.960] that's a real possibility that whatever
[02:26:00.800] they are, they could just reveal
[02:26:02.319] themselves and take disclosure out of
[02:26:04.880] the hands of of the government?
[02:26:06.399] >> Very much so. I I think that that's
[02:26:08.000] actually what one of the major concerns
[02:26:10.160] is on the part of the the powers that be
[02:26:13.120] here uh is that they they want to try to
[02:26:16.160] stay at least in their own mind in
[02:26:18.080] control of the release of this
[02:26:19.840] information. They're extremely concerned
[02:26:21.920] that because of the irresponsible
[02:26:24.560] wielding of the threats of thermonuclear
[02:26:26.640] war that uh that this is increasing the
[02:26:30.319] probabilities that there could be an
[02:26:31.760] accidental nuclear exchange uh and that
[02:26:35.200] they're convinced that the signals that
[02:26:37.600] have been being sent to them by the ETSs
[02:26:40.000] shutting down the missiles right
[02:26:42.399] disabling an entire uh aircraft carrier
[02:26:45.439] battle group
[02:26:46.560] >> out at sea at night just shutting them
[02:26:48.960] completely down. All their propulsion
[02:26:51.760] gone, all their electric communications
[02:26:53.600] gone, all their lights gone, dead in the
[02:26:56.560] ocean uh in the middle of the night. Uh
[02:26:59.200] that the demonstration that they they
[02:27:00.880] have that capacity to do this uh is
[02:27:03.280] sending chills throughout the entire
[02:27:05.680] intelligence community uh and the
[02:27:07.600] military. uh and that therefore what
[02:27:10.160] they're concerned about is losing their
[02:27:12.800] capacity to utilize the threat of
[02:27:16.560] initiating thermonuclear attacks against
[02:27:20.000] anyone. Uh because if they go and do
[02:27:22.960] that actually
[02:27:24.319] >> that the ET people can intervene and
[02:27:27.187] [snorts] shut off all the nuclear
[02:27:28.800] weapons on the planet
[02:27:30.720] >> all at once and that would reveal their
[02:27:34.720] presence.
[02:27:35.439] >> Mhm. Uh, and that would be their own
[02:27:38.399] term, catastrophic.
[02:27:40.240] >> Yes. Yes. I mean, there's going to be
[02:27:41.920] inevitably a lot of people listening
[02:27:43.760] wondering why does it need to come to
[02:27:45.359] that? Why don't they just do it? Why
[02:27:47.200] don't they just decide?
[02:27:48.080] >> Well, let me let me tell you something
[02:27:49.439] that was we Lou and I after we we just
[02:27:53.359] come back from one of the meetings with
[02:27:54.960] the inspector general in Washington and
[02:27:57.840] we were sitting at this restaurant. Uh,
[02:28:00.240] it was closed. I think Lou knew who who
[02:28:03.200] owned it and we were just there just
[02:28:05.439] some of and some of the couple of the
[02:28:07.040] staff people from ATIP.
[02:28:08.800] >> Yeah.
[02:28:09.040] >> Right. Uh and one of the guys from ATIP
[02:28:11.439] was was expressing real frustration over
[02:28:13.760] this whole process. Right. And he said,
[02:28:15.760] you know, why is it that these beings
[02:28:17.359] don't just come down and make themselves
[02:28:19.760] present, you know, and I said, well,
[02:28:22.560] there's a there's a famous story about a
[02:28:25.200] young boy that was uh that loved
[02:28:27.520] butterflies.
[02:28:29.120] uh and he had this big collection of
[02:28:30.880] butterflies out in his backyard. He had
[02:28:32.479] this big gazimemer tent where they all
[02:28:34.080] flew around inside and he was uh looking
[02:28:36.960] for a uh a sample of a a monarch
[02:28:40.720] butterfly and he found finally found
[02:28:43.120] this cocoon for a monarch butterfly and
[02:28:46.080] he he brought it back home and he put it
[02:28:47.840] in this little box of cotton and put
[02:28:49.840] lights on it and kept it warm and kind
[02:28:52.000] of watched it and monitored it. And as
[02:28:54.080] the process unfolded uh uh through the
[02:28:57.280] metamorphosis they that this this uh
[02:29:00.000] butterfly started breaking out of the
[02:29:02.319] cocoon. It was struggling against all
[02:29:05.040] the little silken threads and was
[02:29:06.720] breaking out and breaking out. And he
[02:29:08.319] got down to there being just one last
[02:29:11.040] silken thread. And [snorts] he was
[02:29:13.200] struggling like mad, flapping his wings
[02:29:15.120] and pushing and shoving and pushing and
[02:29:16.800] shoving with his wings against this last
[02:29:18.800] little silken thread. And the little boy
[02:29:21.040] was becoming very sympathetic for this
[02:29:23.520] this monarch butterfly. So he goes and
[02:29:25.600] gets a little pair of scissors and he
[02:29:27.200] clips the last silk and thread and the
[02:29:29.840] butterfly came free. And it was an
[02:29:32.000] absolutely perfect specimen of a monarch
[02:29:34.000] butterfly except that it could never fly
[02:29:38.560] >> because as it turns out the the pressing
[02:29:42.319] against that last silken thread was
[02:29:44.479] absolutely essential to build the entire
[02:29:46.479] muscle structure for the butterfly to be
[02:29:49.040] able to fly on his own.
[02:29:51.359] >> That's the answer to your story,
[02:29:53.600] >> your question.
[02:29:54.640] >> So it's about our own evolution and
[02:29:56.720] figuring it out for ourselves. That's
[02:29:58.479] what's of core importance to this is
[02:30:00.479] that if we have the outside hand help
[02:30:02.640] us, then we cannot metamorphosize.
[02:30:04.800] >> That's right.
[02:30:05.359] >> Yeah. And it seems like you're getting
[02:30:06.800] emotional talking about this. I'm I'm
[02:30:08.880] curious what what's driving that.
[02:30:10.800] >> It's a it's I mean, it is such a it is
[02:30:13.840] such a a subtle insight.
[02:30:15.840] >> Yeah.
[02:30:17.200] >> Such a such a a magnanimous
[02:30:20.160] uh uh disposition toward us,
[02:30:23.920] >> you know, to try to help us in that very
[02:30:25.920] subtle important way. and not to fall
[02:30:28.560] prey to the temptation.
[02:30:30.080] >> Yeah.
[02:30:30.479] >> To jump in. Why didn't they stop us
[02:30:32.160] right with the first atomic explosion?
[02:30:34.000] Why did we let Why did they let us drop
[02:30:35.840] these on Hiroshima in Nagasaki? Why did
[02:30:38.479] they let us do the things that we've
[02:30:40.319] been doing since, you know, since July
[02:30:43.040] 16th of 1945?
[02:30:45.200] >> Why are they letting us do that? Because
[02:30:47.120] we're struggling. We're struggling
[02:30:48.960] against that last silken thread, you
[02:30:51.200] know, our own our our own kind of uh
[02:30:54.319] disposition towards self-destruction.
[02:30:56.399] >> Yeah. uh in the the they don't want us
[02:30:59.040] out in the galaxy, you know, bringing
[02:31:01.520] these nuclear weapons. They don't want
[02:31:03.359] us to be able to do this. And not only
[02:31:05.920] that, but they don't want us to totally
[02:31:07.520] destroy uh uh the capacity of our planet
[02:31:11.760] to justestate life. Our planet is one of
[02:31:15.359] the comparatively rare planets. There's
[02:31:17.120] obviously others because there's other
[02:31:18.399] species,
[02:31:19.680] >> but it's comparatively rare for a planet
[02:31:21.920] to be able to actually justestate life.
[02:31:24.479] >> Yeah. Uh and so very very clearly we
[02:31:27.120] have tons of evidence that they're here
[02:31:29.120] they're gathering flora and fauna in in
[02:31:31.760] genetic material including human genetic
[02:31:34.160] material you know and they're obviously
[02:31:36.640] doing something with it you know that
[02:31:38.800] and it appears that possible that they
[02:31:41.600] are actually seeding life on other
[02:31:44.960] planets.
[02:31:45.920] >> That's where I thought you were going to
[02:31:46.800] go. I thought you were going to go the
[02:31:47.760] hybrid direction.
[02:31:48.560] >> No they're they're talking about seeding
[02:31:50.640] life on other planets. planets that
[02:31:53.120] haven't yet developed the capacity to
[02:31:54.880] gestate life but can sustain life
[02:31:58.319] >> and will then become planets that are
[02:32:00.000] rich with with life in the evolution of
[02:32:02.960] life. Okay. And and a massive
[02:32:05.920] thermonuclear war on our planet will
[02:32:09.280] totally mutate
[02:32:11.520] >> the entire genetic pool of our planet.
[02:32:14.960] Okay. not just terminate the life of our
[02:32:18.319] particular species, you know, in
[02:32:20.560] whatever it is that we can contribute
[02:32:22.640] and and they can see into the future as
[02:32:25.840] you know because they they've been able
[02:32:27.040] to get outside of the matrix of time of
[02:32:29.920] of space time.
[02:32:31.520] >> At least it seems like they would have a
[02:32:32.960] better capacity of forecasting what
[02:32:34.960] could happen
[02:32:36.240] >> except apparently that it's not perfect.
[02:32:38.479] >> It's not perfect. uh because there
[02:32:40.640] because there there is a thing to even
[02:32:42.960] which they are subject and that happens
[02:32:45.200] to be the infinite and eternal.
[02:32:47.600] >> The great mystery. You know that the the
[02:32:51.200] infinite and eternal sea of completely
[02:32:54.240] undifferentiated consciousness that
[02:32:56.880] abides out beyond the sum total of all
[02:32:59.359] the mass and energy.
[02:33:00.560] >> Yeah.
[02:33:00.960] >> Dark and regular massive. Yeah. It's the
[02:33:04.080] infinite and eternal consciousness that
[02:33:06.319] has unfolded into being the material
[02:33:09.040] universe and continues to manifest the
[02:33:12.080] material universe uh which is the great
[02:33:14.399] mystery. And so that there is something
[02:33:16.399] beyond this psychic capacity to be able
[02:33:19.520] to directly and experientially engage
[02:33:22.960] this kind of uh electromagnetic
[02:33:25.520] phenomenon that bonds all these
[02:33:27.600] ultimately irreducent energies of matter
[02:33:29.200] together into this harmonic hole.
[02:33:31.120] There's a there's a an infinite and
[02:33:33.280] eternal consciousness.
[02:33:34.720] >> Yeah.
[02:33:35.120] >> That abides out beyond the sum total of
[02:33:37.600] all the mass and energy that makes up
[02:33:39.120] the universe. Okay. Uh and that's the
[02:33:42.000] great mystery. And the ET people are
[02:33:44.319] subject even to this.
[02:33:45.600] >> I would hope so.
[02:33:46.640] >> Yeah.
[02:33:46.960] >> Yeah. And I hope that they're serving
[02:33:48.560] that and that they're trying to help us
[02:33:50.399] initiate ourselves into a higher
[02:33:52.000] awareness.
[02:33:53.200] >> Oscar Wolf reached out to me on his
[02:33:55.359] deathbed. He was a a clerk typist for
[02:33:57.760] the project blue book. uh and he he uh
[02:34:01.439] was a US Army clerk typist and was
[02:34:04.000] assigned to uh the special unit in
[02:34:06.560] Project Blue Book that dealt with the
[02:34:09.520] 700 cases that they couldn't even
[02:34:12.479] conceivably explain away uh because
[02:34:14.880] there were just too many people that had
[02:34:16.399] seen it, too many credible sources, too
[02:34:18.479] many photographs and so they had a whole
[02:34:20.479] unit that was devoted to kind of looking
[02:34:22.720] into those particular cases. and he was
[02:34:25.040] the Kirk typist and they would bring the
[02:34:27.760] guys that were actually in the field
[02:34:29.280] doing the interviews that would come
[02:34:30.479] back and you know take out the napkins
[02:34:32.560] and give them to him and their notes and
[02:34:34.160] stuff and he would write up the reports
[02:34:36.319] and he he was there for a long time you
[02:34:38.800] know and it went from late 1952 all the
[02:34:41.439] way 67 he was there for the whole and he
[02:34:44.479] developed a really close relationship
[02:34:46.160] with the commander
[02:34:47.600] >> uh of the of the whole unit
[02:34:49.760] >> and uh uh he the the commander uh was
[02:34:54.240] invited to go to S4.
[02:34:57.120] >> Yeah.
[02:34:57.680] >> Uh and he he brought he brought uh uh
[02:35:01.200] Wolf with him, right? Oscar Wolf uh went
[02:35:04.880] with him because he they were both part
[02:35:06.960] of the same religious community, this
[02:35:09.520] thing called the worldwide church of
[02:35:11.120] God,
[02:35:11.840] >> right? And so they go they go to Area
[02:35:14.720] 51. They got brought underground to S4.
[02:35:17.680] They were in S4 and they come to this
[02:35:19.680] place where this ET being is there,
[02:35:22.800] right? Uh, and he's being interviewed.
[02:35:25.760] Uh, he's perfectly cooperative, totally
[02:35:28.319] friendly, and he's in this room with
[02:35:30.640] this big two-way mirror, and Oscar can
[02:35:33.760] see him in there. And Oscar's afraid of
[02:35:35.680] him. Thinks he's demonic.
[02:35:37.920] >> What does he look? Is he supposed to
[02:35:39.120] look like
[02:35:40.399] >> six feet tall? He was a big He was a
[02:35:41.920] tall white. Okay. You know, with the
[02:35:43.120] with the big head and the big eyes, but
[02:35:44.880] he's like almost six feet tall. And they
[02:35:46.800] had this like blue jumpsuit they had on
[02:35:49.439] him.
[02:35:50.000] >> So, the same as the Hollowman incident,
[02:35:51.760] apparently. Yes. very much so. Uh and uh
[02:35:54.640] and and his commander goes in to the
[02:35:58.160] room to have this telepathic exchange
[02:36:00.000] with him and uh and and Oscar won't go
[02:36:03.280] in because he's afraid of him, right?
[02:36:06.319] And so he stays outside and it turns out
[02:36:08.240] that the guys that were there that were
[02:36:10.160] attending to the the guy uh they had
[02:36:13.840] been doing interviews with him, these
[02:36:15.359] telepathic interviews. They had these
[02:36:17.600] card files of notes that they had taken
[02:36:20.080] from the interviews, right? and and one
[02:36:22.240] of them uh the and they showed him to to
[02:36:25.040] Oscar. Oscar was sitting there instead
[02:36:27.280] of going and seeing the being himself,
[02:36:29.200] you know, is sitting there kind of going
[02:36:30.560] through the cards and one of the cards
[02:36:33.200] the question they asked the ET guy, he
[02:36:35.040] said, "Who are you guys?" Yeah. You
[02:36:37.280] know, and and what are you doing? Where
[02:36:39.040] do you come from? And and he said that,
[02:36:41.439] you know, I am part of a a a group of
[02:36:44.160] different individuals that come from
[02:36:46.240] different star systems here in our
[02:36:49.120] galaxy in this galaxy. And we've been
[02:36:51.760] tasked to go around and monitor life as
[02:36:55.200] it's developing on different uh on
[02:36:57.120] different planets. Uh and uh and that
[02:36:59.920] that's what that's what we're doing.
[02:37:01.840] That's what I'm doing. And the follow-up
[02:37:04.080] question was like, "What do you mean
[02:37:05.439] you've been tasked like who who tasked
[02:37:07.280] you to do this?" And he said, "Well, you
[02:37:10.160] you people would refer to it as God, but
[02:37:14.000] it's very different than you think."
[02:37:15.760] Mhm.
[02:37:18.240] >> I really hate to drop the mic there, my
[02:37:20.560] friend, but I just got the text message
[02:37:22.399] from the owner of the studio saying
[02:37:24.319] saying we need to wrap up.
[02:37:26.080] >> But that revelation is a huge one and I
[02:37:28.720] wish we could riff further on it. I know
[02:37:30.160] you talked to Chris Ramsey about this,
[02:37:31.520] too. So, if you're watching this and you
[02:37:33.439] want more of that story, check out the
[02:37:35.359] Area 52 episode after this one. But I
[02:37:37.920] really hope we get a chance to have
[02:37:39.200] additional conversations, my friend,
[02:37:40.640] because you're you're one of the most
[02:37:43.600] >> fascinating, brilliant human beings with
[02:37:45.920] one of the craziest histories of anybody
[02:37:48.080] on this planet. You've been involved in
[02:37:49.840] so many novel, pivotal moments in
[02:37:52.399] cultural history, and here you are on
[02:37:54.240] the precipice of another one again. So,
[02:37:56.560] thank you so much for your time
[02:37:59.439] for gailing me with all these awesome
[02:38:00.800] stories for what you're doing. You know,
[02:38:02.399] this is this is how it'll happen. This
[02:38:04.479] is how it happens is regular people say,
[02:38:07.200] you know, if if if I get an opportunity
[02:38:09.760] to talk with lots of people, what is it
[02:38:12.240] I want to talk about? How about
[02:38:13.840] something that's really meaningful? How
[02:38:15.760] about something that's the most
[02:38:16.800] meaningful thing you can possibly talk
[02:38:18.479] about?
[02:38:19.200] >> Yeah.
[02:38:19.439] >> And [snorts] that's what this is.
[02:38:21.920] >> Thank you, my friend.
[02:38:23.359] >> Thank you.
[02:38:23.920] >> All right, we'll stop it there. If
[02:38:26.479] you're if you're watching,
[02:38:29.120] >> I don't I don't know.
[02:38:31.520] Whoever you are, the overlord.
[02:38:34.640] Yeah.